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<v Speaker 1>Hello everyone. My name is frieda basel and in New

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<v Speaker 1>York City, Brooklyn based Jewsh YouTuber with an interest in

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<v Speaker 1>all things Jewish, subcultures, religion, New York City, and human

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<v Speaker 1>interest stories. Today we are going to talk about the

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<v Speaker 1>National Desertion Bureau. Popular stereotypes about Jewsh husbands are usually positive.

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<v Speaker 1>They're loyal, they're good providers, they don't drink to excess,

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<v Speaker 1>and they are in violent. It's no wonder that most

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<v Speaker 1>people have never heard of the National Desertion Bureau, an

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<v Speaker 1>agency created in New York in nineteen eleven to track

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<v Speaker 1>down runaway Jewish husbands and bring them to justice. Turns

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<v Speaker 1>out that the era of Jewish mass migration from Eastern

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<v Speaker 1>Europe to North America was accompanied by terrible cultural and

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<v Speaker 1>social upheaval, poverty, and failure. One sad feature of his

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<v Speaker 1>era was the phenomenon of broken families, which occurred on

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<v Speaker 1>a mass scale. The problem of Jewish men abandoning their

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<v Speaker 1>families was so severe that, along with the National Desertion Bureau,

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<v Speaker 1>Yiddish newspapers like the Farvards, with a daily readership in

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<v Speaker 1>the hundreds of thousands, published a popular column called the

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<v Speaker 1>Gallery of Missing Husbands, which featured mugshots and descriptions of

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<v Speaker 1>men who had left their wives and families in the lurch.

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<v Speaker 1>There were even local psychics on the Lower East Side

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<v Speaker 1>who specialized in tracking down missing husbands, addressing a true

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<v Speaker 1>social epidemic in the Jewish community. The National Desertion Bureau

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<v Speaker 1>worked with a multiplicity of governmental and private organizations to

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<v Speaker 1>find these men and force them to pay alimony, child support,

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<v Speaker 1>and serve jail time if they didn't. From nineteen oh

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<v Speaker 1>five through the nineteen sixties, the Bureau attracted more than

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen thousand cases. Its files are rich in details and

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<v Speaker 1>are often short novellas onto themselves, with details on the

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<v Speaker 1>tragedy of maritaled solution, abandoned children, and financial ruin. The

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<v Speaker 1>Evil Archive houses approximately seventeen thousand National Assertion Bureau case

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<v Speaker 1>files that were generated between nineteen oh five and the

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen fifties. EVO put together an exhibition on this called

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<v Speaker 1>Runaway Husbands Desperate Families The Story of the National Desertion Bureau,

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<v Speaker 1>which traces the history of the National Assertion Bureau and

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<v Speaker 1>includes never before seeing records, documents, and photographs from the

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<v Speaker 1>organization's luminous archives. This was a project curated by Eddie

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<v Speaker 1>Portnoy from Yevo. I've had the great pleasure of having

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<v Speaker 1>Eddie on my program before when we discussed the Yiddish language,

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<v Speaker 1>and today Eddie will share with us in depth story

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<v Speaker 1>of this dark episode. Before we begin, I want to

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<v Speaker 1>take just a moment to thank those of you who

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<v Speaker 1>are members of this channel. Members of this channel helped

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<v Speaker 1>make this work possible. It's very time consuming work. I

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<v Speaker 1>published videos early for members, so I get to interact

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<v Speaker 1>early with those of you who are in person. I

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<v Speaker 1>thank you so very much. And now Eddie, thank you

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<v Speaker 1>so very.

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<v Speaker 2>Much for being here, Thanks for having me for you

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<v Speaker 2>that it's a pleasure to be invited back.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm happy you're back. It's been too long. That

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<v Speaker 1>conversation about Yiddish. People loved it. People were absolutely fascinated

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<v Speaker 1>by it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's great. Yeah, yeah, I mean looks interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>Yiddish, is it? I mean we're biased, but I think so, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess we are biased. You know, language I think

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<v Speaker 2>is interesting as a whole, and so you know, Yiddish

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<v Speaker 2>because it's it's something close to home. It's it's even

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<v Speaker 2>more interesting, it's even more interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's talk about this project of the National Desertion Bureau,

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<v Speaker 1>which is mind blowing. And did you write that the

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<v Speaker 1>whole description I lifted off of the exhibition.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I plagiarism. I wrote something, and then the woman

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<v Speaker 2>who handles the website and social media probably worked on it.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's yeah, I wrote. I wrote most of that.

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<v Speaker 1>I was very interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's a fascinating organization and the phenomenon is also interesting,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's not something that people are terribly familiar with.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that when people talk about, you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>great mass migration of Jews to the United States from

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<v Speaker 2>Eastern Europe, and this is begins, you know, before the

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen eighty you know, when they talk about mass migration,

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<v Speaker 2>it's from really from eighteen eighty one to nineteen twenty four,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's a period where approximately two million Jews came

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<v Speaker 2>to North America from Eastern Europe and that's an enormous number.

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<v Speaker 2>The vast majority of them settled in around New York

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<v Speaker 2>and that migration created places like the Lower East Side,

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<v Speaker 2>which for many people was the Plymouth Rock. It was

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<v Speaker 2>sort of the first location of residents for many Jews.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, I think by the nineteen twenties, there

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<v Speaker 2>was something like half a million Jews living just on

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<v Speaker 2>the Lower east Side. You know, this doesn't include Brooklyn, Harlem,

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<v Speaker 2>other places in the Bronx, other places in and around

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<v Speaker 2>New York City. And so the Lower East Side was

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<v Speaker 2>this roiling urban ghetto that was mostly populated by Jews.

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<v Speaker 2>And at the time, Jews made up about twenty percent

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<v Speaker 2>of New York City's population, which is a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>What is the percent now?

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<v Speaker 2>The percent is lower, and I want to say it's

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<v Speaker 2>like ten twelve percent now, which is still a lot,

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<v Speaker 2>considering the Jew in the world are a tiny minority.

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<v Speaker 2>But in the in the twenties, in the interwar period,

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<v Speaker 2>between the two World Wars, this was the time when

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<v Speaker 2>you had like a Yiddish mass media. You had five

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<v Speaker 2>daily newspapers in Yiddish, and obviously print media is the

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<v Speaker 2>only media. Now there's like a zillion different kinds of

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<v Speaker 2>media and it's all very confusing. But you had Yiddish theaters,

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<v Speaker 2>you had synagogues and steembles of all different sorts. Every

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<v Speaker 2>block had I mean, it was just a totally different world.

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<v Speaker 2>Is like, you know, Yeden's don't even an eingepack in

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<v Speaker 2>ain Geg. You know, Jews were like really crammed into

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<v Speaker 2>one little area and it created its own kind of

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<v Speaker 2>unique culture.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>In addition to that, they were very poor. Well that's

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<v Speaker 2>one of the funny things, ort of the odd things

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<v Speaker 2>about this, this mass migration in Eastern Europe, they were

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<v Speaker 2>also very poor, and to a large degree that's why

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<v Speaker 2>they came to the United States. You know, certainly they

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<v Speaker 2>were pushed along by the fact that they were oppressed

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<v Speaker 2>and botally ostracized. They didn't have civil rights in many places.

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<v Speaker 2>They had for many years that had pay special taxes

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<v Speaker 2>on certain things, on meat and candles. Wow, what kind

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<v Speaker 2>of you know, they treated very much as a separate

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<v Speaker 2>minority in Eastern Europe, especially under Russian rule. And so

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<v Speaker 2>when it became a parent that America was accepting large

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<v Speaker 2>numbers of immigrants, the Jews took them up on that.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, so many many came. And what's interesting about

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<v Speaker 2>this immigration is when most people think about it, it's

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<v Speaker 2>considered something very successful. And what that means is Jewish

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<v Speaker 2>immigrants came here, they sent their kids to school, their

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<v Speaker 2>kids went to college, large swaths of them became professionals,

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<v Speaker 2>meeting doctors, dentists, lawyers, accounts, whatever, And within one to

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<v Speaker 2>two generations Jews who had come here, who worked in sweatshops,

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<v Speaker 2>who worked in the garment industry, who were peddlers on

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<v Speaker 2>the street, and still very poor. That immigrant generation was very,

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<v Speaker 2>very poor. They succeeded in launching their children to the

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<v Speaker 2>American middle class, and so as a result, it's considered

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<v Speaker 2>a very, very successful immigration, and I think that it's

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<v Speaker 2>accurate to say that. But along the way there were

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<v Speaker 2>certain things that transpire in which Jews encountered Jewish immigrants

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<v Speaker 2>and American born Jews as well, who were born in

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<v Speaker 2>immigrant neighborhoods, they encountered difficulties. There were crime was a

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<v Speaker 2>big problem in neighborhoods like the Lower East Side. There

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<v Speaker 2>were lots of Jewish gangs and gangsters and criminals. I

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<v Speaker 2>talked about percentages. New York City was about twenty percent

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<v Speaker 2>Jewish nineteen twenties, So as a result, sing Sing Prison

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<v Speaker 2>was also about twenty percent Jewish at the time. So

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<v Speaker 2>when you're successful and you make to the middle class,

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<v Speaker 2>there are certain things you forget historically because they're embarrassing.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't really want to know about them. It's not

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<v Speaker 2>something you want to dwell on because it's sort of

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<v Speaker 2>a blip and what's ultimately a really nice success story.

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<v Speaker 2>But these these blips they interest me as a historian.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're part of what happened.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, no exactly. And so you know, there's been

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<v Speaker 2>a tendency to kind of I mean certainly, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there have been books written on you know, Jewish criminals

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<v Speaker 2>and gangsters in mafia and things like that. My own

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<v Speaker 2>personal interest is in the people who were, even like

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<v Speaker 2>at a lower level. And so the only the only

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<v Speaker 2>real record of those activities is the Yiddish press, which

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<v Speaker 2>is full of all kinds of stories of Jews running

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<v Speaker 2>into problems, whether it's crime or whether it's a broken

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<v Speaker 2>broken marriage or broken home or business failure. The Yiddish

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<v Speaker 2>press is the sounding board for this kind of activity historically.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just really fascinating. And so the National Desertion Bureau

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<v Speaker 2>is a great example of this kind of phenomenon. Just generally,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not an unknown organization among historians. I think that

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<v Speaker 2>for people Jews who may know a bit about history,

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<v Speaker 2>or even a fair amount about history, may not have

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<v Speaker 2>ever heard of it, and they may not have known

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<v Speaker 2>that there was a problem with this immigrant generation, mostly

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<v Speaker 2>men who were abandoning their wives and families, that it

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<v Speaker 2>was a fairly severe social problem that affected the Jewish

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<v Speaker 2>immigrant community. And I should also add that this affected

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<v Speaker 2>every community. The difference is that it was treated differently,

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<v Speaker 2>and so at the time there were lots of Irish

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<v Speaker 2>and Italian immigrants in New York City. They had problems

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<v Speaker 2>at a similar level, but they viewed family abandonment as

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<v Speaker 2>a moral issue that the church had to deal with,

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<v Speaker 2>and the National Assertion Bureau sought differently. They sought as

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<v Speaker 2>a social issue, a social problem that could be dealt

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<v Speaker 2>with by social workers and lawyers, administrative professionals, which is

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<v Speaker 2>just a different way to view it. Go backward a

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<v Speaker 2>bit the way this happened. The National Board of Jewish Charities,

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<v Speaker 2>which was a large umbrella organization for all kinds of

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<v Speaker 2>different Jewish charities, they noted in sort of internal documents

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen oh two that this issue was becoming a

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<v Speaker 2>problem in the Jewish community. Women and children were being

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<v Speaker 2>abandoned by men who were running off to different cities,

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<v Speaker 2>different states, sometimes just different neighborhoods. So it was on

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<v Speaker 2>their radar. One interesting note is that one of the

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<v Speaker 2>ways that I found out about this was I was

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<v Speaker 2>doing research on a particular psychic, a very well known

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<v Speaker 2>Jewish psychic by the name of Abraham Hackman, who live

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<v Speaker 2>on the Lower East Side. And he, I mean, he

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<v Speaker 2>was a fortune teller and a huge amount of his

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<v Speaker 2>business was based on his claim that he was a

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<v Speaker 2>master at finding runaway husbands. And so there were newspapers

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<v Speaker 2>of articles about him in the Yiddish press and even

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<v Speaker 2>in the English press as well, because it was a

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<v Speaker 2>fascinating human interest story. They write about how there would

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<v Speaker 2>be women lined up outside of his stoop on Rivington

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<v Speaker 2>Street in the morning waiting to hear where their husbands

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<v Speaker 2>might be. And he loved getting publicity and love being

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<v Speaker 2>written about in the papers, and so there are all

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<v Speaker 2>these interesting articles. So there's a nineteen oh two article,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's like maybe could be nineteen oh three,

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<v Speaker 2>in which a woman appears in his salon or in

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<v Speaker 2>his office on Rivington Street and is looking for her husband,

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<v Speaker 2>and he reads her fortune and he tells her that

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<v Speaker 2>her husband will be at the corner of Pitt and

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<v Speaker 2>Graham Streets at ten pm that night, and he tells her.

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<v Speaker 2>He says, if he's not there, I will pay you

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<v Speaker 2>fifty dollars, which like in nineteen oh two, ninety yo three,

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<v Speaker 2>that's that's a lot of money change, that's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of money. So she goes to the local police station

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<v Speaker 2>and finds a police officer and tells him this. He

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<v Speaker 2>may have gone just out of curiosity. She explains that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, she's been abandoned by her husband, and she's

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<v Speaker 2>been left destitute, and she has children that she has

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<v Speaker 2>to take care of and she has no funding for them.

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<v Speaker 2>And so she brings this police officer to pit in

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<v Speaker 2>Grant at ten pm, and in fact, her husband is

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<v Speaker 2>there like leaning against lampposts, and the police officer arrests him,

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<v Speaker 2>and that brings him to court, and the judge says

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<v Speaker 2>that he's got to pay a certain amount weekly in

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<v Speaker 2>alimony or in child support rather. And it's this interesting

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<v Speaker 2>and someone odd story that appears in the paper.

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<v Speaker 1>What's the logical explanation?

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<v Speaker 2>So Abraham Hawkman pulled other kind of similar stunts. There

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<v Speaker 2>was another episode where there was a group of Jewish

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<v Speaker 2>kids from the neighborhood had gotten arrested for burglary and

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<v Speaker 2>they were in court being arraigned, and Hawkman walks into

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<v Speaker 2>the courtroom and yells out, I'm paying bail for these kids.

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<v Speaker 2>And the judge looks at me and says, who are you?

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<v Speaker 2>And he says, I'm a clairvoyant and I know that

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<v Speaker 2>tomorrow you will set them free. And the judge says, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>if you want to pay bail, you could pay bail.

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<v Speaker 2>So he pays their bail. The next day he comes

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<v Speaker 2>back and the judge sets them free. And I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know if he had gotten word that they didn't actually

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<v Speaker 2>do it, Like, who knows? Yeah, okay, I see, or

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<v Speaker 2>maybe he had you know, special town he had.

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<v Speaker 1>Special I tend to I tend on the most suspicious

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<v Speaker 1>side of things.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I also I tend to be skeptical of these

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<v Speaker 2>things as well. But but it makes for a good story.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, and he's like he's a really he's a fascinating character.

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<v Speaker 2>In addition to being a fortune teller, he owned a

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<v Speaker 2>wedding hall. He had his own katubas printed up that

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<v Speaker 2>he sold at the wedding hall. He also also published

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<v Speaker 2>his own hagada called Like the Fortune Teller's Hagada. It's

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<v Speaker 2>so funny because there are advertisements in the Hagada for

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<v Speaker 2>people in the neighborhood. For I also think I suspected

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<v Speaker 2>the owned owned a decent amount of real estate on

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<v Speaker 2>his street, and so a lot of the people, the

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<v Speaker 2>business people on his street were paying him rent and

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<v Speaker 2>he got them to advertise in in the Hagata. There's

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a local photographer whose ad is in there.

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<v Speaker 2>There's also and this is actually perfect for for Pesach,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a there's a doctor down the block from him

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<v Speaker 2>that specializes and cures for constipation, which which like to

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<v Speaker 2>put that right in the Hagata is what you need

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<v Speaker 2>for this particular holiday. So it's really you know, he's

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<v Speaker 2>a great character. He's really he's really funny. But his

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<v Speaker 2>like I said, his specialty was finding missing husbands. And

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<v Speaker 2>so this appears in the papers, and I know, I

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<v Speaker 2>think that this is just a fascinating, fascinating topic. And

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<v Speaker 2>so at the time, like I mentioned that the National

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<v Speaker 2>Board of Jewish Charities, they discover that around that same time,

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<v Speaker 2>few years after the turn of the twentieth century, that

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<v Speaker 2>this is a problem with the immigrant Jewish community, And

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<v Speaker 2>in fact, in nineteen oh five, the National Board of

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<v Speaker 2>Jewish Charities creates an organization called I'm going to get

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<v Speaker 2>it wrong, but it's something like a Society for the

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<v Speaker 2>Protection of Abandoned Women and Children or Deserted Women and Children,

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<v Speaker 2>something like that. And this was a charitable organization that

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<v Speaker 2>women with families could go to and get funds to

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<v Speaker 2>live on. After a few years of doing that, the

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<v Speaker 2>National Jewish Charities realizes that it's not a good system

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<v Speaker 2>because what's happening is that they're giving money to families

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<v Speaker 2>whose fathers and husbands have left them, and as a result,

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<v Speaker 2>they become dependent on the charity because the husbands, if

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<v Speaker 2>they become aware that their families are being funded, they

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<v Speaker 2>don't bother yeah sending them money or giving them anything

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<v Speaker 2>in any way. So they realized that they had to

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<v Speaker 2>take a different tack, and so it doesn't happen until

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<v Speaker 2>about five six years later. But in the meantime it

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<v Speaker 2>becomes such a problem that it becomes very common to

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<v Speaker 2>see in Yiddish papers advertisements from abandoned families saying, our

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<v Speaker 2>husband Sloimish laputnik whatever you know. I don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>give a real name because it could be someone's name.

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<v Speaker 2>Explain that our husband father has left us where destitute,

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<v Speaker 2>we have no way to make a living. He is

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<v Speaker 2>originally from such and such a place. We think he

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<v Speaker 2>may have gone to Cleveland or Saint Louis or Los

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<v Speaker 2>Angeles or wherever. And they want people to find them

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<v Speaker 2>and so they could get supported in some way. They

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<v Speaker 2>wanted support. And so what happens is is the the

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<v Speaker 2>Yiddish Forvarts, which at the time had become the largest

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<v Speaker 2>and most successful and important Yiddish paper. They in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>oh eight they start a it's not daily when it starts,

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<v Speaker 2>but it becomes very regular, very quickly. They start a

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<v Speaker 2>column called the Galleria funfoch Fundenmene the Gallery of Missing Men.

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<v Speaker 2>And what they do is they put in mugshots of

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<v Speaker 2>the men. Obviously women are setting in mugshots or they're

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<v Speaker 2>setting in photographs the force. They're putting these like little pictures,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's usually they usually set them up as like

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<v Speaker 2>six people in a row, and below them are descriptions

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<v Speaker 2>of them, what town in Europe they're from, what their

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<v Speaker 2>jobs are, you know, where they think they went. They

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned the families that they left. And the idea was

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<v Speaker 2>that the public it was it was really kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a way of crowdsourcing in which the idea was to

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<v Speaker 2>turn these guys in, bring them to justice. They you know,

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00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:16.079
<v Speaker 2>they you know, they had done something terrible. They abandoned

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<v Speaker 2>their wives and families. And the forwards starts this column.

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<v Speaker 2>And what's interesting is it becomes very popular. It's like

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<v Speaker 2>the page that the people first turn to because they

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<v Speaker 2>want to see if their neighbors, friends and relatives are

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<v Speaker 2>like in the galleria, when freshmen in the manor, if

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<v Speaker 2>they're in this, if they're in these mugshots and so

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<v Speaker 2>so it becomes popular and you know, Yiddish humor magazines

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00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:43.720
<v Speaker 2>do parodies of it. And then in nineteen eleven, the

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<v Speaker 2>National Desertion Bureau creates the I'm Sorry in the Jewish

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<v Speaker 2>Board of Charities. National Jewish Board of Charities creates the

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<v Speaker 2>National Desertion Bureau and the purpose of it is to

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<v Speaker 2>find missing husbands have gone who knows where. And it's

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<v Speaker 2>run by two attorneys, Sounzara and Monroe Goldstein, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>staffed by social workers. And they opened up offices on

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<v Speaker 2>Second Avenue in the Lower East Side, and they're written

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<v Speaker 2>about in the paper and they put an advertisement in

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<v Speaker 2>the paper explaining what they do, and they say that

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<v Speaker 2>women can come to them and their purpose, their mandate

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<v Speaker 2>is to find these missing men and bring them to

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00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:23.559
<v Speaker 2>justice and to fund these women. But it worked is

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<v Speaker 2>like a woman. If a woman was abandoned, she would

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<v Speaker 2>go into the office and fill out an application. And

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<v Speaker 2>it was sort of small, four column application and it

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<v Speaker 2>had basic information, names, addresses, names of children, where people

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00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:40.359
<v Speaker 2>are from, why, why they think the man abandoned.

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<v Speaker 1>Them, what kind of answers would they give.

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<v Speaker 2>So this was actually a really interesting part of the exhibit.

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00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:53.359
<v Speaker 2>So within the exhibit itself, we had there are two large,

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00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:56.400
<v Speaker 2>i want to say, eighteen inch wide columns in the

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00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:00.599
<v Speaker 2>exhibit space, and so we took those and we from

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00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:05.160
<v Speaker 2>florid to ceiling, we put like thousands of reasons as

341
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:09.039
<v Speaker 2>to why they left. So the National Desertion Bureau was

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00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.160
<v Speaker 2>created by the National Board of Jewish Charities, which is

343
00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:14.359
<v Speaker 2>now something called the Jewish Board, and in fact the

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00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:18.079
<v Speaker 2>Jewish Board which still is a Jewish charitable organization. They

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00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:21.279
<v Speaker 2>sponsored the exhibit and one of the things that they

346
00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:24.599
<v Speaker 2>did was they extracted all of these reasons out of

347
00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:27.039
<v Speaker 2>the applications just because I think they thought it was

348
00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:29.759
<v Speaker 2>interesting and I could I have a list of them

349
00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:31.640
<v Speaker 2>here and I could read you some of them.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let's hear some of them. That sounds so interesting, Yeah.

351
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<v Speaker 2>They're really there's some of them were really fat, fascinating

352
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<v Speaker 2>So infidelity. One woman wrote, cannot account for desertion. Another

353
00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:45.839
<v Speaker 2>wrote man threatened to kill her. Another man suffers from

354
00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:50.880
<v Speaker 2>hallucinations regarding the applicant's morality. Man claims his wife is disagreeable.

355
00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:53.839
<v Speaker 2>Man is a gentile. Man absconded when his wife learned

356
00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:55.759
<v Speaker 2>that he was Jewish. So you have both sides of

357
00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:58.400
<v Speaker 2>that story. Man stole money and jewelry, fear to rest,

358
00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:03.920
<v Speaker 2>absconded money and left. Man annoying children after divorce obtained

359
00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:07.839
<v Speaker 2>to nineteen fifteen man's polygamous nature? What does that mean?

360
00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:14.319
<v Speaker 2>Cheating man's nature? It's a man who got married multiple times.

361
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<v Speaker 2>There are also some cases where women abandoned men, although

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<v Speaker 2>the vast majority of them are men who abandoned women.

363
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<v Speaker 2>Let's see, here's one. Husband was young and irresponsible. Oh,

364
00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:31.279
<v Speaker 2>the woman ousted him from her home. Wanted to escape

365
00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:36.079
<v Speaker 2>military service, extreme jealousy on the husband's part, sexual incompatibility.

366
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:39.519
<v Speaker 2>The wife refused to keep borders. Man rakes over a

367
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<v Speaker 2>woman's past. I mean, they're like there was one one

368
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<v Speaker 2>of my favorites was women didn't like Baltimore. Moved to Baltimore,

369
00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:49.480
<v Speaker 2>she didn't like it. And that's what so interesting about

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<v Speaker 2>this particular archive and these applications is that they give

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<v Speaker 2>you insight into the family and marital problems of common people.

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<v Speaker 2>And as a historian, that's interesting because you don't typically

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<v Speaker 2>get details about common people unless it's in the newspapers

374
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<v Speaker 2>or you know, the cases. The cases are unique, like

375
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<v Speaker 2>history is typically written about, you know, humanity's great people,

376
00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:21.640
<v Speaker 2>most successful people, business people, doctors, artists, writers, politicians. Those

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00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:24.400
<v Speaker 2>are the people who make history, you know, as opposed

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<v Speaker 2>to just your average person who works a job, as

379
00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:31.680
<v Speaker 2>a family, lives a life, doesn't produce anything of note.

380
00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:34.799
<v Speaker 2>And that's really the vast majority of people. Obviously, because

381
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:39.559
<v Speaker 2>of the Internet, everyone is visible weird. But prior to this,

382
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:42.000
<v Speaker 2>nobody knew from these people, and it's just such a

383
00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:46.319
<v Speaker 2>fascinating look into their lives. Sometimes the files give you

384
00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:51.079
<v Speaker 2>very granular detail about these stories and how they played out,

385
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:53.400
<v Speaker 2>and you also learn all kinds of things about these people.

386
00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:57.920
<v Speaker 2>One fascinating side note is these files are a gold

387
00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:02.480
<v Speaker 2>mine for people working in genialogy, anyone who's researching family history.

388
00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:05.599
<v Speaker 2>If you have a family, if you have an ancestor

389
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:09.279
<v Speaker 2>that is in these files.

390
00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:09.960
<v Speaker 1>You have a ton of information.

391
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:11.720
<v Speaker 2>You could really find out a lot. You could find

392
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:14.000
<v Speaker 2>out what they worked in. First of all, all of

393
00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:18.440
<v Speaker 2>the standard immigration information that you can find in other places,

394
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:22.200
<v Speaker 2>but it's all focused here. But it's also what languages

395
00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:25.920
<v Speaker 2>they spoke, if they went to school preter yeshiva, what

396
00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:28.759
<v Speaker 2>towns they were from. The level of detail is really

397
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:31.839
<v Speaker 2>is really pretty fascinating. I could give you one example

398
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:36.400
<v Speaker 2>of which it's one of the stories that we that

399
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:39.920
<v Speaker 2>we featured in the exhibit. It was the gold Farms.

400
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:41.319
<v Speaker 2>It was a family by the name of Nathan and

401
00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:46.519
<v Speaker 2>Lana gold Farm, and they lived on the Upper east Side,

402
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:48.759
<v Speaker 2>not in like the fancy Upper east Side. They lived

403
00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:52.839
<v Speaker 2>in like ninety third Street East ninety third Street. Nathan

404
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:56.160
<v Speaker 2>was a watchmaker, which is you're not in a sweatshops,

405
00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:00.279
<v Speaker 2>it's a slightly higher level job. And they had three chldren,

406
00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:02.599
<v Speaker 2>all of whom were under six years old. They also

407
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:05.599
<v Speaker 2>had an extra room in their apartment which they rented

408
00:23:05.799 --> 00:23:08.279
<v Speaker 2>to a border by the name of Mini Chech. There

409
00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:13.240
<v Speaker 2>So one day Lena comes home and she catches Minnie

410
00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:16.440
<v Speaker 2>and Nathan in the act I see, and of course

411
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:19.920
<v Speaker 2>no one's happy with this situation. And so what happens

412
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:23.920
<v Speaker 2>is Nathan and Minnie take off Nathan, they run away.

413
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:27.200
<v Speaker 2>And but what happens is this leaves Lena and the

414
00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:30.559
<v Speaker 2>three children with nothing. She doesn't have a job, she

415
00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:33.440
<v Speaker 2>can't pay rent, she can't buy groceries. You know, the

416
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:36.000
<v Speaker 2>kids aren't and you know what, maybe one and I

417
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:38.200
<v Speaker 2>don't know, one of them may have started kindergarten. But

418
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:41.880
<v Speaker 2>it's it's a terrible situation, and she has no way

419
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:45.160
<v Speaker 2>to support herself. This case takes place accidentally in nineteen twelve.

420
00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:49.640
<v Speaker 2>So she goes to the offices of the National Desertion Bureau.

421
00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:52.400
<v Speaker 2>She gives them a photograph and she fills out an

422
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:56.279
<v Speaker 2>application describing him, saying where he's from, how they met,

423
00:23:56.519 --> 00:24:00.559
<v Speaker 2>when they got married, what languages he speaks, what jobs

424
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:04.400
<v Speaker 2>he's done, Who they know, because the National Assertion Bureau

425
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:09.200
<v Speaker 2>is it's almost like an investigations agency for immigrant Jews,

426
00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:13.720
<v Speaker 2>like private eyes. Yeah, they initiate an investigation. They're social workers.

427
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:16.240
<v Speaker 2>They know the names of the man's family members who

428
00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:19.000
<v Speaker 2>are in the country and they sent they send people

429
00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:22.680
<v Speaker 2>out to interview family members and co workers, and they

430
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:24.839
<v Speaker 2>get no information. And so what they do is they

431
00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:26.799
<v Speaker 2>take his photograph and they send it to the four

432
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:29.759
<v Speaker 2>Verts so it can be placed in the galleria fund

433
00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:33.079
<v Speaker 2>Flushwood and the Mena in the gallery of Missing Missing Husbands,

434
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.920
<v Speaker 2>And so that appears. A few months later. In the meantime,

435
00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:40.960
<v Speaker 2>Lena moves to a cheaper apartment on the Lower east

436
00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Side and one of the interesting documents in the file

437
00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:48.240
<v Speaker 2>is her business card. And her business card is in Yiddish,

438
00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:51.359
<v Speaker 2>but it's in sort of an English Yiddish. And what

439
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:54.400
<v Speaker 2>she did is she rented a small apartment on the

440
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:57.319
<v Speaker 2>Lower east Side and opened up a kosher restaurant in

441
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:01.000
<v Speaker 2>the apartment. It's a non license illegal technically not supposed

442
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:03.480
<v Speaker 2>to do this or you're you know, it's not a

443
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:07.480
<v Speaker 2>real restaurant. But it's basically an unlicensed restaurant in an apartment.

444
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:09.480
<v Speaker 2>And she probably went around the Lower east Side giving

445
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:11.680
<v Speaker 2>out this card to, you know, workers in the neighborhood

446
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:13.960
<v Speaker 2>who could come for a kosher lunch. And it was

447
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:16.759
<v Speaker 2>a way for her to earn money and work and

448
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:19.400
<v Speaker 2>watch her children at the same time. Because if she

449
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:21.799
<v Speaker 2>goes to work at a factory, she's got to get

450
00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:24.519
<v Speaker 2>a babysitter, or she's got to put her her children

451
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:28.119
<v Speaker 2>with another family, which is a difficult situation. So this

452
00:25:28.119 --> 00:25:31.400
<v Speaker 2>this was really kind of a clever way for a

453
00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:34.279
<v Speaker 2>woman to be able to watch her children and work

454
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:37.240
<v Speaker 2>at the same time and make a living. So in

455
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:41.240
<v Speaker 2>the meantime, the picture and description of Nathan Goldfarb goes

456
00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:45.119
<v Speaker 2>up in the gallery of Missing Husbands, and a few

457
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.640
<v Speaker 2>months later the forward the Forwards gets a letter which

458
00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:51.720
<v Speaker 2>they sent to the National Desertion Bureau that says, I

459
00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:54.319
<v Speaker 2>have seen this man going around with a woman he

460
00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:58.839
<v Speaker 2>claims with his wife in Los Angeles, and he works

461
00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:01.000
<v Speaker 2>at such and such a factory, and they give the

462
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:03.920
<v Speaker 2>address and in the letter it says, don't tell anyone

463
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:10.559
<v Speaker 2>I said this. So the National Desertion Bureau has contacts

464
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:12.960
<v Speaker 2>in not only in every city in the country that

465
00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:17.240
<v Speaker 2>has a Jewish community, but throughout the world. They have

466
00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:20.400
<v Speaker 2>contacts everywhere there's a Jewish community. And so what they

467
00:26:20.440 --> 00:26:22.640
<v Speaker 2>do is they send a letter to their contact in

468
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:26.359
<v Speaker 2>Los Angeles, who initiates an investigation there. But unfortunately they

469
00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:28.880
<v Speaker 2>don't find anything. But that what they do here is

470
00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:32.599
<v Speaker 2>a rumor that the couple went to San Francisco. So

471
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:35.640
<v Speaker 2>the National Desertion Bureau sends all the same information, you know,

472
00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:38.920
<v Speaker 2>copy of the of the application and photograph to their

473
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:41.680
<v Speaker 2>contact in San Francisco, who happens to be a lawyer.

474
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:45.880
<v Speaker 2>He initiates an investigation and what he finds is that

475
00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:49.880
<v Speaker 2>this couple is living in a fruit shop in the

476
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:52.839
<v Speaker 2>town of Alameda, which is a suburb of San Francisco,

477
00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:55.319
<v Speaker 2>and they're owner in a fruit shop owned by the

478
00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:59.200
<v Speaker 2>man whose name is Solomon Garfinkel. And the National Desertion

479
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:02.640
<v Speaker 2>Bureau contact San Francisco tracks these people for a number

480
00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:05.640
<v Speaker 2>of months, and what he discovers is that the three

481
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:09.160
<v Speaker 2>of them are involved in a local free love commune.

482
00:27:09.400 --> 00:27:15.160
<v Speaker 2>What Yeah, total twist, right, And it's nineteen thirteen, So

483
00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:17.400
<v Speaker 2>it's like people are, I guess, a lot more free

484
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:20.759
<v Speaker 2>thinking than than you think you give them credit for.

485
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:25.119
<v Speaker 1>So is it like a Jewish commune.

486
00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:29.079
<v Speaker 2>There's no detail about the commune itself. It may have been.

487
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:31.880
<v Speaker 2>This is not related to this at all, But a

488
00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:36.079
<v Speaker 2>few years ago I read an article about a vegetarian

489
00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:41.599
<v Speaker 2>nudist colony in New Jersey that was entirely Jewish and

490
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:44.680
<v Speaker 2>Yiddish speaking, and this was like it started in nineteen seventeen.

491
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:47.279
<v Speaker 3>So you know they're all kinds of you know, yeah,

492
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:50.000
<v Speaker 3>when there are enough people, there are gonna be weird stuff.

493
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:53.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, people do all kinds of things and you know.

494
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:57.720
<v Speaker 1>Vegetarian, Nuddhist, Yiddish speaking.

495
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:01.359
<v Speaker 2>Wow, right, I could say, I can send you a link.

496
00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:05.319
<v Speaker 2>It's it's an unusual story. So what happens, So what happens,

497
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:09.559
<v Speaker 2>what happens with this with this couple is that Minnie Scheckter,

498
00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:12.079
<v Speaker 2>the woman whom Nathan ran away with, and you know,

499
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:14.279
<v Speaker 2>they're living in this fruit sure with you know, they're

500
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:17.200
<v Speaker 2>living this fruit shop owned by Solomon Garfinkel. Also Solomon

501
00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:20.279
<v Speaker 2>Garfinkel's his business card is also in the file. So

502
00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:23.839
<v Speaker 2>there's there's all this detritus related to the case that's

503
00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:26.759
<v Speaker 2>in the file that just enriches the story. So what

504
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:30.640
<v Speaker 2>happens is is that Minnie falls in love with Solomon Garfinkel,

505
00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:32.920
<v Speaker 2>the guy who is the fruit chop, and they get

506
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:35.680
<v Speaker 2>married and he moves her out of the fruit shop

507
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:39.119
<v Speaker 2>and they move into a house in Alameda. So Nathan

508
00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:43.720
<v Speaker 2>is furious because he's upended his whole life, left his

509
00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:46.240
<v Speaker 2>wife and family in New York for Minnie and she

510
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:49.720
<v Speaker 2>leaves him for another guy. He had a coming, He

511
00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:53.599
<v Speaker 2>totally had a coming. So so he's mad, and he

512
00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:55.839
<v Speaker 2>finds the house they're living in and he begins to

513
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:58.200
<v Speaker 2>harass them, and he rasses them to a point where

514
00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:00.440
<v Speaker 2>they move out of the house into an apartment in

515
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:03.440
<v Speaker 2>San Francisco, but he finds them there too, and he

516
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:06.960
<v Speaker 2>continues to harass them. What they do is they find

517
00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:09.400
<v Speaker 2>the lawyer who works as the contact for the National

518
00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Desertion Bureau in San Francisco, and they say to him,

519
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:16.440
<v Speaker 2>if you threaten to prosecute him for child abandonment, he

520
00:29:16.519 --> 00:29:18.880
<v Speaker 2>could be convinced to go back to New York to

521
00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:21.680
<v Speaker 2>his wife and children. And that's what they do. The lawyer,

522
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:24.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, sends a letter threatening to prosecute him for

523
00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:28.160
<v Speaker 2>child abandonment, but he won't if you know, if he

524
00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:31.119
<v Speaker 2>goes if he reconciles with his wife in New York.

525
00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:33.119
<v Speaker 2>And in fact, he goes back to New York and

526
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:35.559
<v Speaker 2>reconciles with his wife. And that's the end of the file.

527
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:41.000
<v Speaker 2>And it's such a fascinating story. Now within those files

528
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:43.279
<v Speaker 2>there are all kinds of I wouldn't say that there

529
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:46.680
<v Speaker 2>are a lot of you know, love commune stories or

530
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:48.960
<v Speaker 2>free love communist stories, but you know, there are all

531
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:51.680
<v Speaker 2>kinds of stories where people leave for all kinds of

532
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:54.720
<v Speaker 2>different reasons. They wind up in all kinds of different places,

533
00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:59.400
<v Speaker 2>whether it's like Cleveland or I don't know, Baltimore or wherever,

534
00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:02.720
<v Speaker 2>and the National Resertion Bureau tracks these people down. And

535
00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:05.079
<v Speaker 2>what's amazing, there's a woman who wrote a book about this,

536
00:30:05.319 --> 00:30:07.519
<v Speaker 2>the title of which is Escaping. Her name is Anna

537
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:12.480
<v Speaker 2>Egra Igra, and she estimated that based out like a

538
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:15.079
<v Speaker 2>sample of I don't know, three or four hundred cases

539
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:18.519
<v Speaker 2>that she looked at, she estimated that they found the man,

540
00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:21.799
<v Speaker 2>they found the runaway man in about seventy five percent

541
00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:24.720
<v Speaker 2>of the cases, which is really kind of a huge number,

542
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:27.839
<v Speaker 2>and they're finding them. You know, there's no internet. There

543
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:31.160
<v Speaker 2>aren't even any phones or maybe there are sub phones

544
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:33.440
<v Speaker 2>by it during some period. Yeah, there are phones during

545
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:36.680
<v Speaker 2>some period of it. But it's all through the press, letter,

546
00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:41.359
<v Speaker 2>all through newspapers and telegrams and postcards and letters to

547
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:43.720
<v Speaker 2>all kinds of different people. So there are cases and

548
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:46.920
<v Speaker 2>the contacts very widely. Like I mentioned that the contact

549
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:51.359
<v Speaker 2>in San Francisco was a lawyer. So I found cases

550
00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:56.160
<v Speaker 2>where the National Resertions Bureau's contact was the secretary who

551
00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:58.599
<v Speaker 2>worked at the JCC in the Saint Louis You're the

552
00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Jewish Community Center, or it was like a local rabbi

553
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:05.599
<v Speaker 2>in Nashville, like it could have been anybody. It didn't

554
00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:07.440
<v Speaker 2>have to be a professional. It was just someone who

555
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:11.559
<v Speaker 2>knew the community. And in immigrant community is when a

556
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:15.119
<v Speaker 2>new person arrives, people talk. They're like, oh, hey, especially

557
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:17.559
<v Speaker 2>if it's a smaller community. So and so showed up.

558
00:31:17.559 --> 00:31:19.759
<v Speaker 2>Who is that. It's like someone showing up with the Stethel.

559
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:22.759
<v Speaker 2>It's someone new. Let's talk, you know, we need to

560
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.400
<v Speaker 2>talk about this. Where are they coming from, what's their purpose,

561
00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:28.680
<v Speaker 2>what are they doing? And if there's a scandal behind it,

562
00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:32.799
<v Speaker 2>it becomes an even bigger topic of conversation.

563
00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:35.720
<v Speaker 1>What happens with let's say a story like this couple

564
00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:39.200
<v Speaker 1>with the Free Love Commune, which it's like a soap opera,

565
00:31:39.640 --> 00:31:43.039
<v Speaker 1>But what's really interesting is we're getting a part of

566
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:45.880
<v Speaker 1>the story. This woman who was so dependent on her husband,

567
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:49.480
<v Speaker 1>has young children, her heart is broken, she's being cheated on.

568
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:52.319
<v Speaker 1>She catches her husband in the act and then is

569
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.079
<v Speaker 1>left by herself, and then she built, she makes a restaurant. Right,

570
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:58.640
<v Speaker 1>she starts to get on her feet. We're seeing her

571
00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:02.480
<v Speaker 1>gather the piece together. She's getting her life, guys, she's

572
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:05.200
<v Speaker 1>becoming a strong independent woman. And then this douchebag who

573
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:09.160
<v Speaker 1>trade her and harassed someone else doesn't seem like such

574
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:12.319
<v Speaker 1>a such a catch, is dragged back into her life,

575
00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:13.359
<v Speaker 1>right right, and.

576
00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:16.240
<v Speaker 2>So like, Yes, I will also admit that this totally

577
00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:19.240
<v Speaker 2>amazes me that they that they take these guys back

578
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:21.920
<v Speaker 2>who are app so many of them are absolute jerks.

579
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:23.839
<v Speaker 2>It's somewhat astounding. I think a lot of it has

580
00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:29.559
<v Speaker 2>to do with the nature of marriage and the place

581
00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:33.799
<v Speaker 2>of women in society at that time. Certainly women worked,

582
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:36.519
<v Speaker 2>they worked in sweat shops, but a so called glass

583
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:40.279
<v Speaker 2>ceiling then was a lot lower, and it wasn't really glass,

584
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:43.839
<v Speaker 2>it was like brick. Women were absolutely limited as to

585
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:47.079
<v Speaker 2>what they could do. And obviously, when you have kids,

586
00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:48.839
<v Speaker 2>even if both the men and the woman have to work,

587
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:51.759
<v Speaker 2>to have two incomes is important, you know, especially as

588
00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:53.200
<v Speaker 2>the kids get older and you don't have to care

589
00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:55.799
<v Speaker 2>for them as much. It's in a way, it's kind

590
00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:59.119
<v Speaker 2>of tragic how women were forced to be so reliant

591
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:02.119
<v Speaker 2>on men. As you say, the fact that this woman,

592
00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:04.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure she wasn't the first to do it, but

593
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:06.559
<v Speaker 2>that she, you know, came up with this idea of

594
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:09.640
<v Speaker 2>running a cheap apartment in the neighborhood that had the

595
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:13.079
<v Speaker 2>most Jews in the area and lots of workers people

596
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:15.799
<v Speaker 2>who needed to eat lunch, especially a kosher lunch, because

597
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:19.200
<v Speaker 2>not all restaurants were there weren't There were certainly kosher restaurants,

598
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:21.400
<v Speaker 2>but you wanted to say, and also, it's like a home

599
00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:24.400
<v Speaker 2>cooked meal. So if she's a good cook, that's that

600
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:26.799
<v Speaker 2>could be better than a restaurant, and that could be

601
00:33:26.839 --> 00:33:31.000
<v Speaker 2>really appealing to people who have are having a miserable

602
00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:33.759
<v Speaker 2>day in a sweatshop and you know, want to take

603
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:36.559
<v Speaker 2>a break to eat, you know, a really hearty lunch

604
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:40.079
<v Speaker 2>cooked by you know, a y the shimama. So that's

605
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:42.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, I thought it was a really incredibly clever idea,

606
00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:46.000
<v Speaker 2>and really and really it was something that I hadn't

607
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:50.200
<v Speaker 2>really considered before I saw this card. And that's what's

608
00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:52.519
<v Speaker 2>great about these files is that they have all these

609
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:54.960
<v Speaker 2>little inchif gis, all these like kind of little items

610
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.319
<v Speaker 2>in them that that you know, you don't find in

611
00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:02.079
<v Speaker 2>normal historical records, so it allows you extrapolate on historical

612
00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:05.720
<v Speaker 2>phenomena like women in society and how do they handle

613
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:08.599
<v Speaker 2>a situation like this, and it's and this is sort

614
00:34:08.599 --> 00:34:11.480
<v Speaker 2>of a great great example of that of that type

615
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:12.079
<v Speaker 2>of scenario.

616
00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:15.239
<v Speaker 1>Do you ever or has anyone attempted to try to

617
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:18.960
<v Speaker 1>get the continuation of stories that end where the file ends?

618
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:21.920
<v Speaker 2>So it's the I think the only way to do

619
00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:26.199
<v Speaker 2>that is to find the families because once the once

620
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:30.239
<v Speaker 2>the once the case files end, that's it.

621
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:31.760
<v Speaker 1>No more data, right.

622
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:34.519
<v Speaker 2>They don't they don't continue, there's no research, there's nothing

623
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:40.159
<v Speaker 2>new either the husband reconciles, he doesn't reconcile. Sometimes there

624
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:43.440
<v Speaker 2>are cases where there are like there are guys who

625
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:46.639
<v Speaker 2>constantly reappear. There are people sometimes who have who have

626
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:51.119
<v Speaker 2>they've married multiple times, and the same woman multiple times.

627
00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:56.079
<v Speaker 2>And so you know, you see on the application the

628
00:34:56.119 --> 00:34:58.719
<v Speaker 2>first time the woman comes to the office and then

629
00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:01.639
<v Speaker 2>the second time. It could there could be like months

630
00:35:01.719 --> 00:35:04.679
<v Speaker 2>or years in between the times that she shows up

631
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:08.400
<v Speaker 2>to file a new case of abandon it.

632
00:35:08.480 --> 00:35:11.880
<v Speaker 1>What other stories can you tell? I really like the stories.

633
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:16.079
<v Speaker 2>There are, I mean it's there. They're like there are

634
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:19.559
<v Speaker 2>thousands of now and it's this was a very complete one,

635
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:21.159
<v Speaker 2>like this is a very complete one, and this is

636
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:23.960
<v Speaker 2>this is one that I that I tell a lot,

637
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:27.719
<v Speaker 2>and I tell it because it's a rich story. There

638
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:30.880
<v Speaker 2>are other stories where well, they all sort of follow

639
00:35:31.159 --> 00:35:36.320
<v Speaker 2>a similar path. Where an leaves, usually a woman with children,

640
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:40.559
<v Speaker 2>She goes and files an application. They initiated an investigation.

641
00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:44.360
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes they find the guy living in the tenement building

642
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:47.400
<v Speaker 2>next door. Sometimes they don't find the guy at all.

643
00:35:47.559 --> 00:35:49.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, there was one one of the cases that

644
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:51.679
<v Speaker 2>we featured in the exhibit was a story of a

645
00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:54.960
<v Speaker 2>man who abandoned his wife and never reappeared. And you

646
00:35:55.039 --> 00:35:58.519
<v Speaker 2>even have letters in the file from the man's mother

647
00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:01.360
<v Speaker 2>begging him to come back to his wife, and he

648
00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:04.159
<v Speaker 2>doesn't even respond to his own mother. So there are

649
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:07.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, there are some cases where the guys are nice.

650
00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:10.400
<v Speaker 2>You also have you also have files where there are

651
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:17.559
<v Speaker 2>like receipts for for that they're sending into the National

652
00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:20.239
<v Speaker 2>Desertion Bureau. The men are sending the National Bark to

653
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:24.360
<v Speaker 2>show that they're giving their wives money, fives and children money.

654
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:26.599
<v Speaker 2>And sometimes there are also letters you know, I wasn't

655
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:29.760
<v Speaker 2>able to pay this week because I'm out of money.

656
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:32.320
<v Speaker 2>It's really there are thousands, thousands of files of like

657
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:36.119
<v Speaker 2>terribly tragic stories. Yeah, because most of these people are

658
00:36:36.199 --> 00:36:40.760
<v Speaker 2>very poor. They can't you know, they can't support these families.

659
00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:43.719
<v Speaker 2>And then you have these sort of lithario's who just

660
00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:47.679
<v Speaker 2>ay marry multiple women, they do all kinds of all

661
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:49.920
<v Speaker 2>kinds of terrible things. And so one of the things

662
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:54.320
<v Speaker 2>that was also interesting about this is finding stories in

663
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:57.599
<v Speaker 2>the papers. I mentioned before. The newspapers become a really

664
00:36:57.639 --> 00:37:01.679
<v Speaker 2>important component of this story because not only because they,

665
00:37:03.400 --> 00:37:06.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, have this gallery of missing husbands that everybody

666
00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:09.400
<v Speaker 2>reads and everyone wants to, you know, find someone in

667
00:37:09.559 --> 00:37:12.360
<v Speaker 2>and it's often one of the ways that that that

668
00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:15.280
<v Speaker 2>that the manner are discovered, but the papers also have

669
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:19.760
<v Speaker 2>some really really interesting stories about families like this. And

670
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:21.800
<v Speaker 2>I have a couple here if I can read them,

671
00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:24.199
<v Speaker 2>if you think it'd be interesting. Here's a story from

672
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:30.280
<v Speaker 2>from the four verts from to nineteen thirteen that readis

673
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:34.039
<v Speaker 2>follows cigar maker Charles Weiss doesn't look like much, but

674
00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:36.440
<v Speaker 2>he apparently knows how to treat the ladies. And you know,

675
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:40.599
<v Speaker 2>it's funny because the Yiddish press like often wrote about

676
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:43.679
<v Speaker 2>things like this, like with tongue in cheek. They write

677
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:46.159
<v Speaker 2>about it with like snark. They it's you know, some

678
00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:48.159
<v Speaker 2>of the stories are written in a really kind of,

679
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:50.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, funny and ironic way.

680
00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:54.119
<v Speaker 1>They probably have a huge readership that's looking to do

681
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:54.840
<v Speaker 1>for these people.

682
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:58.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, you know, the stories are incredible. I'll just

683
00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:00.800
<v Speaker 2>start from the beginning again. So cigar maker Charles Weiss

684
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:02.639
<v Speaker 2>doesn't look like much, but he apparently knows how to

685
00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:06.360
<v Speaker 2>treat the ladies. Arrested last week for bigamy, he denied everything,

686
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:08.599
<v Speaker 2>but when he showed up in court to find his

687
00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:12.599
<v Speaker 2>three wives chatting amongst themselves, he knew he'd been caught.

688
00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:16.519
<v Speaker 2>Wife number one, Annie Heller married wife married Weiss three

689
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:19.360
<v Speaker 2>years ago, but knew him by the name Martin Yambach.

690
00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:23.679
<v Speaker 2>The couple has one child together. Wife number two, Lena Weissberger,

691
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:25.960
<v Speaker 2>told the court that she met Charles six months ago

692
00:38:25.960 --> 00:38:27.920
<v Speaker 2>and it was introduced to him with his real name,

693
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:31.679
<v Speaker 2>but also as a widower with three children who she

694
00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:35.159
<v Speaker 2>has been caring for. This is Weis's number three. The

695
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:38.280
<v Speaker 2>former Ida Krantz carried a baby that it turned out

696
00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:41.000
<v Speaker 2>belonged to wife number two. She was married to wife

697
00:38:41.159 --> 00:38:43.239
<v Speaker 2>Weiss just two months ago, and said that after he

698
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:46.039
<v Speaker 2>sold all her jewelry to fix up the house, he

699
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:49.599
<v Speaker 2>began disappearing. Number three became suspicious and followed Weiss to

700
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:52.079
<v Speaker 2>a house in West Harlem, where she discovered that he

701
00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:55.360
<v Speaker 2>was living with Number two. When the judge asked Weiss

702
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:57.519
<v Speaker 2>what he had to say, all he could do was mutter,

703
00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:01.519
<v Speaker 2>I'm guilty. Wow, so much for it up right, I know,

704
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:05.119
<v Speaker 2>I know, so it's it's really it's amazing. So here

705
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:09.000
<v Speaker 2>I'll read another one. This one's from nineteen fifteen. It

706
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:12.599
<v Speaker 2>says Morris Bloomberg, an elderly jew with a long beard

707
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:16.320
<v Speaker 2>and a regular in the Forvarts Gallery of Missing Husband's column,

708
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:19.119
<v Speaker 2>has left his wife again and was in court to

709
00:39:19.159 --> 00:39:22.639
<v Speaker 2>explain why. Bloomberg was married eighteen years ago and has

710
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:25.599
<v Speaker 2>disappeared a number of times. The last time was seven

711
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:28.239
<v Speaker 2>years ago, and when he was caught, he was arrested.

712
00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:31.199
<v Speaker 2>Although he doesn't deny running away this time, he claims

713
00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:34.000
<v Speaker 2>it's his wife's fault and offered ten reasons as to

714
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:37.800
<v Speaker 2>why Number one she beats him. Number two she wouldn't

715
00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:40.880
<v Speaker 2>let him read the Sunday paper. Number three she made

716
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:44.119
<v Speaker 2>him do his own laundry. Number four, she stole money

717
00:39:44.119 --> 00:39:47.800
<v Speaker 2>from him. Number five, she broke his glasses. Number six,

718
00:39:48.039 --> 00:39:51.000
<v Speaker 2>she wouldn't let him attend to his business. Number seven,

719
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:53.559
<v Speaker 2>she wouldn't do his laundry. I would say, laundry's in

720
00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:58.000
<v Speaker 2>there twice so important. It's a big issue, a big issue, right.

721
00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:02.159
<v Speaker 2>Number eight, she demanded the he washed the windows. Number nine,

722
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:05.880
<v Speaker 2>she didn't love him. Number ten her mother always stuck

723
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:08.599
<v Speaker 2>her nose in their business. The case is expected to

724
00:40:08.599 --> 00:40:09.679
<v Speaker 2>go to the jury today.

725
00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:16.119
<v Speaker 3>It's like, and all his reasons are equally No, obviously,

726
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:19.840
<v Speaker 3>but it's but but it's funny that this guy shows

727
00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:23.159
<v Speaker 3>up in court with a list of reasons, thinking, oh, well.

728
00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:25.000
<v Speaker 2>This is this is going to make my case for me.

729
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:29.760
<v Speaker 2>It's you know, these people they often worn't the most

730
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:32.760
<v Speaker 2>brilliant of folks. It's it's you know, it's just the

731
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:35.639
<v Speaker 2>reality of how that works.

732
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:38.960
<v Speaker 1>He could have he could he could have bothered to

733
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:43.280
<v Speaker 1>notice the duplicate on the laundry. But yeah, go ahead,

734
00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:44.079
<v Speaker 1>what were you going to say?

735
00:40:44.599 --> 00:40:47.039
<v Speaker 2>No? No? So so, you know, the papers are just

736
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:51.039
<v Speaker 2>full of stories like this, and you know, from a

737
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:56.880
<v Speaker 2>historian's perspective, they're just this incredibly fascinating perspective into you know,

738
00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:00.800
<v Speaker 2>the personal lives of Jewish immigrants, and it's something you

739
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:03.760
<v Speaker 2>don't really get anywhere else. I mean, certainly, you know,

740
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:07.000
<v Speaker 2>writers and novelists have written, you know, things like this.

741
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:10.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, in in the book I published a number

742
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:14.320
<v Speaker 2>of years ago, Bad Rabbi, I have a chapter from

743
00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:17.960
<v Speaker 2>it's about the Warsaw Rabbinical Court. And that was also

744
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:21.639
<v Speaker 2>a common, commonly featured thing in the Yiddish press and Poland,

745
00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:25.440
<v Speaker 2>the cases of the rabbinical court, and especially divorce cases.

746
00:41:25.559 --> 00:41:28.760
<v Speaker 2>And they were so popular that there was even a

747
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:32.280
<v Speaker 2>stage play, a Yiddish stage play made about the based

748
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:34.840
<v Speaker 2>in about the about the rabbinical about the divorce cases

749
00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:37.320
<v Speaker 2>in the rabbinical court, because they were just such rich

750
00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:40.679
<v Speaker 2>stories of you know, they were often violent. You know,

751
00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:43.719
<v Speaker 2>there's lots of streaming and yelling. They were very very dramatic,

752
00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:47.159
<v Speaker 2>and so it's just another instance of how, you know,

753
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:50.079
<v Speaker 2>how the press figures into the into the lives of

754
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:53.280
<v Speaker 2>these of these people and sort of brings it to

755
00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:56.480
<v Speaker 2>life for you know, for a different audience. Obviously, it's

756
00:41:56.559 --> 00:41:58.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, there are the purpose of the press the

757
00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:00.000
<v Speaker 2>time was to bring it to life for a contempt

758
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:03.679
<v Speaker 2>very audience. You know. For me, it's like I was saying,

759
00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:07.159
<v Speaker 2>how about angefell in a schmald school, which is sort

760
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:12.840
<v Speaker 2>of untranslatable, but it's like I fell into this incredibly rich, juicy,

761
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:20.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, topic that is historically fascinating and dramatic and

762
00:42:20.199 --> 00:42:24.800
<v Speaker 2>compelling and also gives insight into the lives of common people, which,

763
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:27.400
<v Speaker 2>like I said, is something you just don't you don't

764
00:42:27.400 --> 00:42:28.880
<v Speaker 2>really get many other places.

765
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:33.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, speaking of like juicy and dramatic, something that I

766
00:42:33.079 --> 00:42:35.840
<v Speaker 1>am wondering about. Maybe this is just an information bias.

767
00:42:36.039 --> 00:42:41.000
<v Speaker 1>In stories about immigrants in the Lower east Side, there

768
00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:44.199
<v Speaker 1>seems to be a lot of philandering. I don't know,

769
00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:47.199
<v Speaker 1>this is probably an information bias, but I'm just wondering.

770
00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:49.760
<v Speaker 1>A thought in my mind is if the upheaval of

771
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:53.679
<v Speaker 1>relocating with the family makes you question everything and causes

772
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:56.079
<v Speaker 1>maybe more of that kind of sexual energy.

773
00:42:56.239 --> 00:42:58.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't know if it causes sexual energy.

774
00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:03.880
<v Speaker 3>Thinking partnerships more like Yeah, I mean, look, yes, I

775
00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:07.079
<v Speaker 3>think that you know, this was a massive social and

776
00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:08.159
<v Speaker 3>cultural upheaval.

777
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:12.840
<v Speaker 2>You're in an entirely new place. You are also to

778
00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:17.920
<v Speaker 2>the typical Lower east Side or New York City tenement

779
00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:24.400
<v Speaker 2>apartment was I think three hundred square feet. The average

780
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:29.800
<v Speaker 2>family had six kids. And that's cramped. You know, that's

781
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:31.639
<v Speaker 2>that's not you know, even if you like it, that

782
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:35.000
<v Speaker 2>people you're there all the time. It's like you can't move,

783
00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:37.559
<v Speaker 2>you can't turn around without someone being there. That that's

784
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:42.840
<v Speaker 2>a hard way to live. And so, you know, and

785
00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:48.239
<v Speaker 2>being men, they see an opportunity and they take it,

786
00:43:48.320 --> 00:43:51.360
<v Speaker 2>and it's and then the unfortunate aspect is that in

787
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:55.440
<v Speaker 2>many cases it broke up families and did damage. So

788
00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:59.719
<v Speaker 2>it's you know, obviously, the Jewish community recognized this and

789
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:03.039
<v Speaker 2>as a result created the National Resertion Bureau in order

790
00:44:03.079 --> 00:44:06.039
<v Speaker 2>to deal with it. Obviously by the and also interesting

791
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:09.079
<v Speaker 2>that I should also add that that they the National

792
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Ressertion Bureau was open to anyone. They didn't you know,

793
00:44:11.559 --> 00:44:13.360
<v Speaker 2>you didn't have to be Jewish to use it. But

794
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:17.199
<v Speaker 2>because it was a Jewish organization funded by the Jewish community,

795
00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:20.920
<v Speaker 2>at least up through the nineteen thirties, the vast majority

796
00:44:21.079 --> 00:44:23.960
<v Speaker 2>of clients are Jews. By the no reason. When Jews

797
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:27.599
<v Speaker 2>begin to enter the middle classes in much larger numbers,

798
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:31.519
<v Speaker 2>that begins to change. And so from nineteen sties through

799
00:44:31.639 --> 00:44:35.559
<v Speaker 2>and they function until the nineteen sixties. You know, you

800
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:38.360
<v Speaker 2>just see all kinds of different people, you know, entering

801
00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:40.280
<v Speaker 2>into the files. You still, you know, wind up with

802
00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:43.719
<v Speaker 2>Jews during these times, but you know, they're no longer,

803
00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:46.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, I don't think they're they're a majority any longer,

804
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:48.800
<v Speaker 2>because once you're in the middle class, you know, it's

805
00:44:48.920 --> 00:44:51.960
<v Speaker 2>no longer you know, you have the where the financial

806
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:55.239
<v Speaker 2>wherewithal to actually pay for a divorce. And in fact,

807
00:44:55.639 --> 00:44:58.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, in the early twentieth century, family abandonment was

808
00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:01.719
<v Speaker 2>often called poor divorce. You know, this is you know,

809
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:04.760
<v Speaker 2>getting it, hiring a lawyer, getting a divorce that costs money.

810
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:07.760
<v Speaker 2>And Jews have to do it twice. They they have to,

811
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:09.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, they have to you know, if they got

812
00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:13.280
<v Speaker 2>married civilly, they have to get a civil divorce, and

813
00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:15.000
<v Speaker 2>they also have to get a get you know, which

814
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:18.159
<v Speaker 2>also costs money. And so it's you know, they you know,

815
00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:21.559
<v Speaker 2>by abandonment, they avoided all of this and you know,

816
00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:24.400
<v Speaker 2>and just disappeared. But like I said, when you get

817
00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:28.480
<v Speaker 2>to Jews becoming middle class, they they handle it, you know,

818
00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:31.760
<v Speaker 2>in the appropriate fashion. They go to a lawyer, they

819
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:32.480
<v Speaker 2>get a divorce.

820
00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I imagine also that at the time let's say

821
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:39.800
<v Speaker 1>the early years, child support was a thing. Was it

822
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:40.559
<v Speaker 1>in a divorce?

823
00:45:41.679 --> 00:45:44.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it was. I mean, you know, one of

824
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:48.920
<v Speaker 2>the outcomes of now the National Desertion Bureaus activities was

825
00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:52.760
<v Speaker 2>the development of something called family Court where these cases

826
00:45:53.079 --> 00:45:56.880
<v Speaker 2>often appeared. And the people and Family Court works hand

827
00:45:56.880 --> 00:45:59.079
<v Speaker 2>in hand with the National Desertion Bureau in cases where

828
00:45:59.079 --> 00:46:02.440
<v Speaker 2>they do where where couples do want to get divorced.

829
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:04.880
<v Speaker 2>If a couple wants to divorce, the National Desertion Beer

830
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:07.639
<v Speaker 2>will help them do it. And one of the interesting

831
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:10.440
<v Speaker 2>aspects of this is, you know, earlier on I mentioned

832
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:13.639
<v Speaker 2>the fact that you know, this problem of family abandonment

833
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:17.920
<v Speaker 2>was you know, it's really a problem of poverty. You know,

834
00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:20.159
<v Speaker 2>it's a family, it's a problem of social you know

835
00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:24.960
<v Speaker 2>of of you know, finances, and it affected Italian and

836
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Irish immigrants in the same ways that it affected Jews.

837
00:46:28.119 --> 00:46:34.360
<v Speaker 2>But because most Italians and uh uh and Irish or Catholic,

838
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:39.159
<v Speaker 2>they can't get divorced, they begin church. The church handles

839
00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:41.599
<v Speaker 2>this problem for them, but the church won't allow them

840
00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:44.960
<v Speaker 2>to get to get divorced, so they force you know,

841
00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:49.639
<v Speaker 2>marriages that are bad marriages to stay together because that's

842
00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:52.320
<v Speaker 2>considered a holy union, and so to a certain degree,

843
00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:56.920
<v Speaker 2>for Jews, they're in a much better situation because you know,

844
00:46:57.159 --> 00:46:59.679
<v Speaker 2>according to their tradition, they are able to get divorced,

845
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:04.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, especially in situations where where the marriage is Yeah.

846
00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:09.639
<v Speaker 1>Interesting last question. The exhibit. The EVO exhibit obviously popularized

847
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:13.559
<v Speaker 1>this whole fascinating saga. Was there at any point in

848
00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:16.719
<v Speaker 1>your working on this project that you heard from someone

849
00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:20.119
<v Speaker 1>who is a descendant from anyone in this story?

850
00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:22.920
<v Speaker 2>No, but I had a lot of people contact me

851
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:25.760
<v Speaker 2>asking if they were because one of the things that

852
00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:29.840
<v Speaker 2>EVO has as partner's archives is a card catalog that

853
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:32.639
<v Speaker 2>belonged to the National Desertion Bureau. So if you had

854
00:47:32.679 --> 00:47:35.679
<v Speaker 2>a case file with the National Desertion Bureau and they

855
00:47:35.719 --> 00:47:37.880
<v Speaker 2>needed to access your file, they had a special card

856
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:39.920
<v Speaker 2>catalog like in the library, where you'd like three by

857
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:45.000
<v Speaker 2>five cards with the basic information about the family. So

858
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:47.079
<v Speaker 2>people always used to ask me if I could check

859
00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:52.519
<v Speaker 2>the card catalog to find their great grandfather to see

860
00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:55.199
<v Speaker 2>if they were in there. And I don't really find anything,

861
00:47:55.239 --> 00:47:58.960
<v Speaker 2>but one time there's a person in there's a person

862
00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:03.039
<v Speaker 2>in Evo's orbit it who does a lot of EVO

863
00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:09.159
<v Speaker 2>activities who mentioned that her I think her grandfather had

864
00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:12.800
<v Speaker 2>abandoned their family, and we looked it up and in fact,

865
00:48:13.639 --> 00:48:17.840
<v Speaker 2>her grandfather had a file. Wow, there are cases like this.

866
00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:21.199
<v Speaker 2>And also what interesting is the Jewish Board put that

867
00:48:21.320 --> 00:48:24.000
<v Speaker 2>card catalog online and so you can actually look it

868
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:26.880
<v Speaker 2>up online to see if you had a relative in this.

869
00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:30.320
<v Speaker 2>And then if you, in fact you do, you note

870
00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:32.559
<v Speaker 2>the case number on the card and you come to

871
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:34.880
<v Speaker 2>EVO and you order the file. And I think it

872
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:36.239
<v Speaker 2>takes a day to a day or two to get

873
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:38.679
<v Speaker 2>the actual file, but you can, you know, you can

874
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:43.400
<v Speaker 2>look at it. In addition, someone from the genealogical organization

875
00:48:43.599 --> 00:48:48.199
<v Speaker 2>Jewish Gen created a database of apparently all of the

876
00:48:48.239 --> 00:48:51.039
<v Speaker 2>men in the gallery of missing husbands. So if you

877
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:57.719
<v Speaker 2>suspect that you had a philandering zeti for but groizeated,

878
00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:01.519
<v Speaker 2>you can you can go to Jewish Gen and look

879
00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:04.119
<v Speaker 2>this up. If you find something, it's likely that the

880
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:08.000
<v Speaker 2>National Assertion File National Assertion Bureau ful. Wow, fascinating.

881
00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:09.719
<v Speaker 1>Is the exhibit still up?

882
00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:09.920
<v Speaker 3>No?

883
00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:12.559
<v Speaker 2>No, sorry, the exhibit had went down about a year ago.

884
00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:13.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I thought so.

885
00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:16.719
<v Speaker 2>I remember it was topic. You know, people still talk

886
00:49:16.760 --> 00:49:17.239
<v Speaker 2>about a lot.

887
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:20.320
<v Speaker 1>How can people learn more about it or maybe learn

888
00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:21.440
<v Speaker 1>more about your work.

889
00:49:21.639 --> 00:49:24.000
<v Speaker 2>If they're intrigued, well they could, you know, look at

890
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Evo's website evo dot org that has all of our

891
00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:31.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, events and exhibits and classes and you know,

892
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:34.719
<v Speaker 2>various other online projects as part of the website. I mean,

893
00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:38.320
<v Speaker 2>EVO has something like twenty four million documents and artifacts

894
00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:43.920
<v Speaker 2>that relate to mostly Ashkenazi jew and sort of Eastern

895
00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:46.159
<v Speaker 2>European Jewish life. But it's we have a lot of

896
00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:48.039
<v Speaker 2>other things as well. You know, we have a library

897
00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:51.320
<v Speaker 2>of about you know, between three and four hundred thousand volumes,

898
00:49:51.519 --> 00:49:54.760
<v Speaker 2>lots of Arabinic material, you know, the archives, and you know,

899
00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:58.320
<v Speaker 2>the the archives they're just so rich. It's just there's

900
00:49:58.480 --> 00:50:01.679
<v Speaker 2>so many different things, ranging from you know, the archives

901
00:50:01.719 --> 00:50:06.599
<v Speaker 2>of Yiddish writers and artists to Jewish organizations to you know,

902
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:10.840
<v Speaker 2>the Vadharabonum in Vilna. I mean, it's like there's there's

903
00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:14.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, Yiddish school systems in Poland between the wars.

904
00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:19.159
<v Speaker 2>It's uh, it's such a great, great collection and it's

905
00:50:19.159 --> 00:50:21.039
<v Speaker 2>open to the public, so you can just you know,

906
00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:25.000
<v Speaker 2>come here and find some fascinating topic to work on

907
00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:29.360
<v Speaker 2>and research and anything anything that interests you and beautiful now. Also,

908
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:30.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, if people want to learn more about the

909
00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:33.639
<v Speaker 2>National Resertion beheer about, you know, how it functioned and

910
00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:36.840
<v Speaker 2>what it did, they could look up Anti Egro's book.

911
00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:38.800
<v Speaker 2>I want to say. It's like, oh, thank it, I'll

912
00:50:38.840 --> 00:50:39.280
<v Speaker 2>link it.

913
00:50:39.719 --> 00:50:42.559
<v Speaker 1>You can look it in that in the video description. Yeah,

914
00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:45.039
<v Speaker 1>I'll just find it in a link. It great. Thank

915
00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:48.039
<v Speaker 1>you so much, Eddie. I really really enjoyed learning from it.

916
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:51.960
<v Speaker 2>I hope it wasn't boring boring? How going to be boring?

917
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:54.480
<v Speaker 1>I go to be boring? I feel like we could

918
00:50:54.519 --> 00:50:57.000
<v Speaker 1>we could be talking about the stories that are found.

919
00:50:57.039 --> 00:51:00.480
<v Speaker 1>I personally, as someone who's interested in culture, have always

920
00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:04.039
<v Speaker 1>been fascinated by ordinary people's lives. It's just something that

921
00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:04.920
<v Speaker 1>really interests me.

922
00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:08.079
<v Speaker 2>And of course, look, Mary, people are incredibly fascinating. You

923
00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:12.719
<v Speaker 2>don't have to exactly be or have you know, been,

924
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:16.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, wildly successful in something, or a singer or

925
00:51:16.119 --> 00:51:20.159
<v Speaker 2>a writer or whatever. People are. People are just interesting exactly.

926
00:51:20.679 --> 00:51:22.639
<v Speaker 2>You know, you know, whoever you're sitting next to on

927
00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:25.159
<v Speaker 2>the boss or on the subway could be, you know,

928
00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:29.079
<v Speaker 2>someone who's got this really compelling, dramatic story, and you

929
00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:32.239
<v Speaker 2>know obviously you don't want to pry, but I'm time

930
00:51:32.440 --> 00:51:34.440
<v Speaker 2>worth it. Yeah, exactly.

931
00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:37.440
<v Speaker 1>I love people watching, but sometimes the only the only

932
00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:39.920
<v Speaker 1>way to really get to these ordinary people's stories is

933
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:45.559
<v Speaker 1>like historical. Yeah, piecing together what we what we can find. Well,

934
00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:48.239
<v Speaker 1>thank you again so much. I really appreciate it. I'm

935
00:51:48.280 --> 00:51:52.039
<v Speaker 1>going to link your book bad Rabbi and also the

936
00:51:52.119 --> 00:51:55.079
<v Speaker 1>EVO website in the video description, and also thank you

937
00:51:55.119 --> 00:51:57.079
<v Speaker 1>to the viewers and the podcast listener right.

938
00:51:57.119 --> 00:51:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Thanks to thanks to any everyone who might watch this
