WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.960 Do you know what real power is? It's knowing you're 2 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:05.719 on the same rate for energy all day, every day. 3 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:08.640 With a smart all day plan from Board Gosh Energy, 4 00:00:08.839 --> 00:00:11.039 save up to eight hundred and eighty euro on dual 5 00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:13.560 fuel plus get a two hundred and thirty five euro 6 00:00:13.560 --> 00:00:17.480 O welcome bonus switch today at Boardgosh Energy dot Ie 7 00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:20.519 Board Gosh Energy. 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That's one for 18 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:56.479 Panadal speed based on absorption data contains paracetamol. Always read 19 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:57.399 the label or leaflet. 20 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:03.880 Oh Hey, hey, it's that hi, Hi, it's a lady 21 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:07.239 from your mom's book. Club. Hi, the one who apologizes 22 00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:10.599 even when she brings cookies. Yeah, Hi, it's Ali Ward 23 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:14.319 back with another episode of Oologies. Oh man, I never 24 00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:17.200 knew I needed this episode. Like we've had an episode 25 00:01:17.239 --> 00:01:20.879 about ornithology birds, but now we're gonna get to the heart, 26 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:23.599 the heart of the matter. And by heart I mean 27 00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:27.319 butt and by butt I mean kloaca. So what is 28 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:30.079 it kloaca? Well, as I've said before, it's kind of 29 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:33.079 like the home button on an iPhone, like if Steve 30 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:37.760 Jobs had designed an orifice, just a multipurpose little boop. 31 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:43.680 It's good for sensual adult times, for egg laying and pooh. 32 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:48.560 So today we're gonna be cracking wise about eggs. Oh, 33 00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:52.239 so many eggs, so many glorious eggs. What a wonder? Okay, 34 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:55.959 but first, this podcast really quick would not exist without patrons. 35 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:59.120 On patreon dot com slash ologies. You can support for 36 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:02.120 a dollar in ap episode a dollar a month. Patrons 37 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:04.439 get to hear what episodes are coming up next and 38 00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:07.760 submit questions for the ologists, and I say, your name 39 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:12.840 is right as my mouth possibly can. Also ologiesmerch dot 40 00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:18.759 com has backpacks, caps, bikinis, shirts, there's totes, gifts, pins, 41 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:23.080 all science themed. But if money's tight because the world 42 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:27.319 is falling apart and it's on fire, that's okay. Rating 43 00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:31.240 and subscribing and reviewing keeps ologies up in the charts 44 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:34.120 where other people can see it and say, what is 45 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:37.080 this podcast that talks about slug dis and why does 46 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:40.159 this lady call herself my dad? I read all of 47 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:42.800 your reviews. I'm upfront about it, all right. I'm kind 48 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:45.719 of like a concerned parent reading the diary that you 49 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:48.759 left open on the counter, and so to prove it, 50 00:02:49.719 --> 00:02:52.599 just like I do every week, I shout out one reviewer, 51 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:56.360 and this week I would like to think Beyonce two three, 52 00:02:56.439 --> 00:02:59.759 seven oh six. Maybe that's Beyonce. Perhaps it's a different 53 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:03.360 beyond who says this podcast makes me want to make 54 00:03:03.400 --> 00:03:06.560 the world a better place. I love hearing all of 55 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:09.000 these people who I would normally think of as existing 56 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:11.840 on another plane and finding out that they're just people 57 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:14.240 and I could be one of them too. I read 58 00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:17.879 that earlier today and literally started crying. So thank you 59 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:22.719 Beyonce for that. Okay, let's get the shell back t 60 00:03:22.759 --> 00:03:26.960 it this excellent episode? Shall we? By the way, that 61 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:29.680 is why I call myself here dad? Okay, So Why 62 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:32.199 is it called oology? Why are there so many god 63 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:36.080 dang oh's in this word? Okay comes from one guess, Yes, 64 00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:41.280 the Greek for ion, meaning egg, and it's a branch 65 00:03:41.319 --> 00:03:44.919 of ornithology that deals with eggs. I want to think 66 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:48.159 that the oo in oology is just because the moos 67 00:03:48.159 --> 00:03:51.879 look like little eggies, but that's not true. Okay, So 68 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:55.319 this interview, what a what a treat? Okay. I was 69 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:57.199 in Chicago for a few days and I reached out 70 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:00.560 to the wonderland that is the Field Museum via the 71 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:04.840 Brain Scoops Emily Grassley, hey girl, and they hooked me up. 72 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:07.199 So not only did they give me a quiet room 73 00:04:07.400 --> 00:04:10.479 to record the epidemiology episode with the errands of this 74 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:13.479 podcast will kill You, but they were also like, yo, 75 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:16.959 we got an egg dude for you. So Kate Golumbski, 76 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:20.839 I owe you like ten puppies. Kate met me at 77 00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:26.199 the Field and she walked me through the ornithology lab. Whoa, hi, 78 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:29.560 so many of you are up some steps. 79 00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:30.000 You know. 80 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:32.279 What I didn't realize also is that this museum is 81 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:35.079 so big that our commute from one office to the other, 82 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:37.439 that's a good time in to commute. I should have 83 00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:40.519 left a trailer breadcrumbs to the office of an expert 84 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:46.319 in bird babies, this kind faced, bespectacled gentleman with thick 85 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:50.519 salt and pepper hair and a desk piled with eggbooks 86 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:53.959 and field notes. But it was a Friday afternoon at 87 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:56.879 four pm, and I just hated to keep him from 88 00:04:57.079 --> 00:04:59.360 his weekend. So some of the questions and answers are 89 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:02.920 super rapid, But then we had such a jolly time 90 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:06.079 hanging out that afterwards he offered to give me a 91 00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:09.079 tour of the egg bunker, and hell yes, I took 92 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:11.160 him up on that. So throughout the interview there are 93 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:14.920 audio notes from that tour as we continued to just 94 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:18.319 gab in the stacks. So this episode is just a 95 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:23.199 feast of facts about speckley eggs and outlaw burders and 96 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:27.800 falcon mysteries and vaults of delicate treasures and can you 97 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:32.079 eat cookie dough? And modern research done with old artifacts, 98 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:36.759 and there's some Easter bullshit and chicken hatching, even snake trivia. 99 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:40.319 It's got it all, So buckle up, all right, let's 100 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:44.560 settle our feathers and ready ourselves for the ornithological treasures 101 00:05:44.759 --> 00:06:08.600 of oologists. Doctor John Bates. Hi, I'm Ali Warren. Hi, 102 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:10.240 nice to meet you. Thank you for talking about eggs 103 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:12.959 with me. Are you technically an oologist? No? 104 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:13.439 I am not? 105 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:18.319 What not an oologist? He literally edited the book of eggs. 106 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:21.360 It's called the Book of Eggs and his name is 107 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:27.480 on the cover. Like, not an oologist. He studies bird eggs. Okay, 108 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:31.319 I gotta breathe that. Okay, more on this situation a minute. 109 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:35.399 But he is definitely an evolutionary biologist slash ornithologist and 110 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:39.519 officially an associate curator of birds and head of the 111 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:43.279 Life Sciences Division at the Field Museum in Chicago. Or 112 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:46.639 what do you study about birds? Do you study particular 113 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:50.000 like eggs of different species, feathers, beaks? Like, what's your bag? 114 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:52.519 Well, I'm a curator and so we have one of 115 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:56.519 the world's greatest collections of birds here in the museum, 116 00:06:56.560 --> 00:06:59.120 and so one of the things I've been interested in 117 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:01.480 over the years is all aspects of ab and biology. 118 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:06.120 But the egg part actually came about because we have 119 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:08.800 an egg collection and I feel like it's my responsibility 120 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:10.439 to know something about eggs. 121 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:13.439 So after the interview at his desk, John took me 122 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:16.959 down this labyrinth into the bowels of the museum, just 123 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:21.959 stuffed with millions of scientific artifacts, like for real, actually 124 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:26.639 millions of artifacts. What you see on displays at museums 125 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:31.000 is this laughably small representation of their actual shit they 126 00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:34.839 have in files and drawers and boxes behind the scenes. 127 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:38.439 So behind these scenes, we came upon a room labeled 128 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:42.439 egg Collection, to which John had the keys. 129 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:48.600 Wow, what this looks like a like a bank bunker, 130 00:07:48.839 --> 00:07:53.560 they REALOK, they do, yeah, oh my god. 131 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:55.879 So how many specimens. 132 00:07:55.120 --> 00:08:00.199 From so probably about one hundred thousand eggs? 133 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:04.319 But now, why do you say you're not an oologist 134 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:05.800 even though you study verdegs? 135 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:08.800 Yeah, that's because basically, I don't know if you could 136 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:11.800 find anybody who had described themselves as an oologist anymore. 137 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:15.959 It's a field that's it's an extinctology at some level, 138 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:18.040 which is too bad. That's actually one of the things 139 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:20.920 that we're interested in, some colleagues and I are interested in. 140 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:23.040 We're actually working on a paper right now trying to 141 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:28.199 encourage people to remember, and that is that there's these 142 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:31.000 incredible collections of eggs around the world, and a lot 143 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:34.399 of times they're pretty underutilized. People tend to forget they're there. 144 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:40.559 So oology was really popular in the eighteen eighties into 145 00:08:40.600 --> 00:08:43.519 the nineteen twenties or so, and then it died out. 146 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:46.720 And some of that was because people were a little 147 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:49.039 bit concerned that there might be issues with respect to 148 00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:51.639 collecting eggs in terms of the population biology affecting the 149 00:08:51.639 --> 00:08:54.159 population biology of birds and things, and so it was 150 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:56.720 kind of fell out of favor with a lot of people. 151 00:08:57.559 --> 00:09:02.000 So, okay, sology can mean the study of eggs, but 152 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:05.679 it can also refer to the hobby of collecting wild 153 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:10.000 bird eggs, also called egg in Now, at some point 154 00:09:10.360 --> 00:09:15.200 these amateur egg scholars stopped egging because it became illegal. 155 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:20.320 People were like, well, you are stealing babies now. Wikipedia says, 156 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:23.720 and I quote despite this, some of those who engage 157 00:09:23.799 --> 00:09:27.919 in egg collecting show considerable recidivism. That is legal speak 158 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:31.159 for doing bad shit again like chasing the dragon egg. 159 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:37.120 Wikipedia continues. One Colin Watson was convicted six times before 160 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:39.960 he fell to his death in two thousand and six 161 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:42.559 while attempting to climb to a nest high up in 162 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:46.320 a tree. Another individual has been convicted nine times and 163 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:51.480 imprisoned twice, and a third has been convicted fifty one times, 164 00:09:51.879 --> 00:09:56.399 imprisoned four times, and barred from entering Scotland during the 165 00:09:56.440 --> 00:10:00.279 breeding season. People are addicted to egg collecting. Also, one 166 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:05.879 historical amateur ornithologist, Charles Bendyer, who stash of eight thousand 167 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:10.039 formed the base of the Smithsonian's egg collection, climbed a 168 00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:14.679 tree for some hobbyist egg thievery and was rightfully, if 169 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:18.240 you ask me, shot at and scared away, but escaped 170 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:21.840 climbing down the tree with a raptor egg in his mouth. 171 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:24.159 And the egg was so big that he had to 172 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:28.200 and was willing to rather have his teeth broken to 173 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:30.639 get it out of his mouth at like a cloach 174 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:35.120 of face. So these were the oologists of your Perhaps 175 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:36.720 that's why the term fell out of favor. 176 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:39.519 But then the other thing that happened was you had 177 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:42.440 the advent of things like cameras, and suddenly, you know, 178 00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:44.559 people you could make an argument that you didn't need 179 00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:47.159 the specimen per se if you could take a picture 180 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:47.960 of the eggs. 181 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:51.360 So do you think that if you're not out actively 182 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:54.000 collecting and studying eggs, then you're not an oologist? 183 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:56.919 Well, I think so. I like to describe it actually 184 00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:01.080 as an interesting way. I think from the perspective of humans, 185 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:04.759 which is that in some level it's like pediatrics. Right, 186 00:11:04.919 --> 00:11:08.759 So here's this field where people study children, and this 187 00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:11.399 is a field where people studied eggs. But it's a 188 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:15.320 specialization within pediatrics, right, a specific thing. And I think 189 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:19.759 that in part it was just because collecting eggs kind 190 00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:24.240 of literally fell out of favor, and so the termology 191 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:26.720 actually fell by the wayside. At some point, I. 192 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:28.159 Think it's time to resurrect it. 193 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:31.759 I mean, that's actually I mean there's a lot of 194 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:33.159 science that can be done with eggs. 195 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:35.759 Yeah, So tell me about the collection you have, and 196 00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:38.240 what do you like about eggs, because I feel like 197 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:41.919 you have to be into them in order to study them. 198 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:45.679 I think aptitude is backed by passion, I'm guessing. So 199 00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:48.799 what is it about birds and bird eggs that you 200 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:50.960 that you love or that you're drawn to? 201 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:54.759 So what I'd say, I think it's interesting to say. 202 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:59.000 I mean, eggs themselves are just beautiful things in nature, 203 00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:02.919 for one thing. But when you look at these collections, 204 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:07.440 you start realizing that they're incredibly valuable pieces of our 205 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:10.240 understanding of early natural history. So one of the things 206 00:12:10.279 --> 00:12:12.159 I always like to say to people is that you 207 00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:14.919 go back to our collections of bird specimens from the 208 00:12:14.919 --> 00:12:16.519 eighteen eighties a lot of times, and they have very 209 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:20.240 little information on them. But with the egg collections, it's 210 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:23.200 very common for them to have these detailed nest cards 211 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:26.519 which describe exactly when the person found the nest, how 212 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:28.759 many eggs were in it, what kind of tree it 213 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:32.960 was in, very detailed locality information, and so these guys 214 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:38.639 were actually collecting really excellent natural history data, probably tend 215 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:41.679 to twenty to thirty years more earlier than a lot 216 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:45.159 of the specimen collectors were, so it's a very incredible data. 217 00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:46.679 As a matter of fact, one of the things we're 218 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:49.919 trying to do right now is work on various projects 219 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:53.039 where we can use these data to look at what's 220 00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:53.840 going on today. 221 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:57.000 So it's kind of like the thank you for the 222 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:01.320 nest plundering. Back then you monocled aerolix, But yeah, no, 223 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:03.840 we don't do that now. That's not a pastime. Let's 224 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.759 just play video games or scroll through pictures of other 225 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:10.519 people's vacations on a tiny screen. But the dates in 226 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:13.679 all of those amateur egg collections are very helpful. 227 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:17.960 So, for instance, we can look at nest laying dates 228 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:21.559 for birds in the Midwest and ask the question if 229 00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:23.600 we have data from modern birds on when they were 230 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:26.000 at laying and this is based on field observations from 231 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:29.480 some of my colleagues. We can look at individual species 232 00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:32.879 and ask the question, our bird populations in the Chicago 233 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:36.960 region laying their eggs at different times than they were historically, 234 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:42.399 and it looks like the dates of laying have advanced actually, 235 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:45.600 which is consistent with some of the potential issues that 236 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:48.039 you'd expect due to climate change. 237 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:51.480 So climate change is a biggie, as are the effects 238 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:56.320 of pesticides and pollutants. So one huge detective story is 239 00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:59.960 often cited when the topic of vintage eggs comes up. 240 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:01.799 You know, when I show this to people and I 241 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:03.639 talk about why we have these collections. One of my 242 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:10.279 favorite examples is, you know, paragon falcon eggs. So these 243 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:19.279 were collected in the eighteen nineties in North Dakota. Wow, 244 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:23.799 and paragon falcons in the nineteen sixties, along with ospreys 245 00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:28.039 and bald eagles, had their populations plummeted, and paragon falcons 246 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.759 actually went extinct in eastern North America. And what was 247 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:34.080 going on is they weren't having any reproductive success and 248 00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:37.000 it was because every time females laid eggs they would 249 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:39.320 start sitting on them to incubate them, they would crack, 250 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:43.480 and scientists thought that this pesticide DDT was causing the 251 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:46.320 egg shell thinning. And one of the big pieces of 252 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:48.840 evidence that led them to ban DDT in the US 253 00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:51.480 was a study by these guys named Hicky and Anderson 254 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:54.320 where they went in and they measured pre d Deterra 255 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:59.559 egg shell thickness in these birds with post egg shell 256 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:03.720 host nineteen sixty during the DTI era use and they 257 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:05.639 were able to show that they were demonstrably s thinner 258 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:07.759 and a bunch of the key areas. And so it 259 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:10.320 was a great scientific design that was possible because they 260 00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:12.919 had access to these collections. Yeah, and what I always 261 00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:14.679 like to point out is that you know, this guy 262 00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:18.360 that collected these things, this guy Foresight in nineteen seventeen, 263 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:21.480 had no idea dead forty fifty years later his eggs 264 00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:23.039 would be used for a study like that. 265 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:25.360 And so no, it's so cool to see current research 266 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:27.200 being done on specimens that have been collected. 267 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:28.000 One hundred years exactly. 268 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:30.600 So just think some of the citizen science that you 269 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:35.039 do today might help future generations to study, like which 270 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:39.120 plants existed before the robots that we download our consciousness 271 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:41.360 into took over the earth and mined all the gold 272 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:44.200 to make toilets and then darken the sky with clean 273 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:46.360 coal emissions. Is that too dark? 274 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:47.279 Sorry? 275 00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:49.759 When they would collect the eggs, would they blow the 276 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:52.080 eggs out or would they just rot? What was happening? 277 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:53.720 Would they call? Okay? They'd hollow them out? 278 00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:56.840 Yeah? So yeah? Right? So I yes. They would put 279 00:15:57.080 --> 00:15:58.600 droll a little hole in them, and it was a 280 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:00.799 it was a real art. I really good at it, 281 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:03.480 and they would carefully inject a little bit of air 282 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:05.960 and once you do that, you can blow the contents out 283 00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:07.960 of a very small hole and you're left with the 284 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:08.600 egg shell. 285 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:11.679 Can you explain to me how an egg is formed? 286 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:13.200 Because it is kind of odd to be like, Hi, 287 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:15.720 I'm a bird, I'm soft, a fluffy, and then bink, 288 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:18.240 there's this hard thing that comes out of your cloaca. 289 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:19.600 What is it? 290 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:26.960 Yeah? Basically, the female has this developing ovum and her 291 00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:30.279 oviduct and it goes down and there's a glands that 292 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:34.600 produce the shell material and it gradually rotates and forms 293 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:39.879 and you get the production of this perfectly layered, hard 294 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:46.440 and yet thin thing covering that developing embryo in an 295 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:49.240 incredible way. And then there are all kinds of interesting 296 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:52.519 things that happen after that with respect to making the 297 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:55.039 eggs colorful or spotted or things like that. 298 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:58.240 Yeah, So is it like layers on a jawbreaker, like 299 00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:00.799 layer after layer of like this cow wosium or is 300 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:04.680 it like one layer of shell that happens at once. 301 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:07.640 Yeah. No, it's my understanding of it is it's a 302 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:11.519 layer thing, and they actually is there going down the oviduct, 303 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.319 the shell gland is actually putting it, layering on that 304 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:18.720 material so that when it comes out it's it's a 305 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:20.039 perfectly formed egg. 306 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:22.920 And then where is the air brushing station in the 307 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:25.279 oviduct like or where are they putting on the speckles? 308 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:26.920 And like the robin egg blue colors. 309 00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:30.200 It's done in the as it's passing along through the 310 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:35.039 kloaca and in the oviduct. And there are these melonin 311 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:39.240 producing glands that are cells that will actually make the color. 312 00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:41.559 But that's something that actually some of the aspects of 313 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.000 that are still debated by scientists. We don't know how 314 00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:46.880 some colors on certain types of eggs are made. 315 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:50.200 And I understand, like, okay, so we're surrounded by these 316 00:17:50.359 --> 00:17:54.160 beautiful posters of eggs and I understand eggs. It looks 317 00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:57.160 like granite boom. Is it an egg or a rock? 318 00:17:57.279 --> 00:17:58.640 I don't know. I can't tell. I'm not going to 319 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:01.160 eat it. I get it. But like a bright blue 320 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:04.599 robin's egg in a green tree. What's happening there that 321 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:05.799 seems so conspicuous? 322 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:09.839 Yeah, so quick answer. We don't know, okay, right, but 323 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:14.079 there are these eggs. If I showed you eggs of Tinamus, 324 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:18.319 which are these neotropical birds that a bunch of species, 325 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:20.559 they look like little chickens that run around in either 326 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:23.920 forest or an open country, and they lay these incredibly 327 00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:28.119 enameled eggs that can be anywhere from blue to brown 328 00:18:28.279 --> 00:18:33.079 to green, and they're just just incredibly enameled. And we 329 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:35.920 don't know why they do that. Wow. And one hypothesis, 330 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:38.440 which is kind of crazy, would be just they wanted 331 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:41.200 to look so weird that no predator would look at 332 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:42.920 that and go, yeah, that's something we should eat. 333 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:46.559 And they wanted to look like a weird toy or 334 00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:48.200 a piece of ceramic or something like that. 335 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:51.319 Yeah, Because I mean, they literally don't look like anything 336 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:52.279 you would find in nature. 337 00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:56.599 So down in the vault, John showed me another egg 338 00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:59.279 that looked like a prop like, no way did a 339 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:02.359 bird button make? Oh my god, are you kidding me? 340 00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:06.759 These are these common murin nests eggs, so this cliff 341 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:09.319 nester and you can see these are from Ireland, and 342 00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:11.240 then they would have been laid by different females such 343 00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:14.599 that the female could actually individually recognize each egg. And 344 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:16.720 you can see these things, like all these little squiggles 345 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:20.519 come from the the egg twisting as it's coming down 346 00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:22.720 the Wow, the overduct, and. 347 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:25.920 It looks like you just took a sharpie remarker, yeah 348 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:29.119 to them. It looks like you you let your like 349 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:31.519 four year old nephew color them in, you know what 350 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:35.440 I mean, But like or Jackson Pollock. Oh my god, 351 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:36.680 they're gorgeous. Though. 352 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:38.440 You can see this one sat for a while and. 353 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:41.519 Oh inside of the oviducts. 354 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:44.960 Yeah, yeah, inside the overduct and so it gets. 355 00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:48.240 It gets more of that speckling exactly familiar. Oh, from 356 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.240 those cells. That's so I never knew that's how it happened. 357 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:53.279 I mean, that's so crazy to think of it twisting 358 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:57.160 and turning and making those marks. So just squiggling down 359 00:19:57.640 --> 00:20:00.240 the bird butt canal, getting a streaky paint jo on 360 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:05.319 the way. It's so delicately magically gross and beautiful. And 361 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:08.480 what about egg shape? Why why are they the shape 362 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:08.920 that they are? 363 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:14.039 So that's an interesting question that's been studied and published 364 00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:16.480 on fairly recently, and one of the hypotheses is that 365 00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:20.640 it's related to body shape at some point. Eggs a lot. 366 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:23.799 I mean, eggs have a fairly defined shape for the 367 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:27.119 most part, but they're really interesting aspects of certain eggs. So, 368 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:31.200 for instance, eggs of some of the birds that breed 369 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:35.319 on cliffs, like common mirrors and things, are these long 370 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:39.079 pointed have a thick base and then a long pointed tip. 371 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:42.359 And one of the hypotheses has been that they've evolved 372 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:44.119 that way because they're on a cliff face. And if 373 00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:45.960 you roll that egg on a cliff face, it'll just 374 00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:49.000 roll in a tight little circle because of its shape. Now, 375 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.039 some other people have come along and said, now that's 376 00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:55.200 not what's going on, but that's a plausible explanation for 377 00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:56.039 that egg shape. 378 00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:59.000 And do you eat eggs? I do eat eggs, Okay, 379 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.319 So you're not like you don't have a situation where 380 00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:04.599 you're like, oh, I can't do it right. No, is 381 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:06.680 it bad for us to eat chicken eggs? 382 00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:10.920 So I always like to say that. My pediatrician used 383 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:13.279 to flip back and forth. Every year I went to him, 384 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:15.680 Oh it really so my mom crazy, Like he would 385 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:17.680 come in and say, eggs are good for your son. 386 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:20.920 M good. Nope, next year, eggs are bad for you. 387 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:23.039 So side note, I was like, yeah, what's up with 388 00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:26.720 eggs having this like big reputation. So in nineteen sixty eight, 389 00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:30.480 the American Heart Association advised people not to have more 390 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:34.640 than three egg yolks per week. It's like eggs are canceled. 391 00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:37.799 Unfollow eggs on Twitter, do not invite them to breakfast. 392 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:41.200 And then years later some news came out that was like, nah, 393 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:44.400 eggs are fine. And then in the last few years, 394 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:48.440 this new cholesterol kills campaign came out and that's done 395 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:53.640 by an organization called the Truth about Eggs. But that 396 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:57.240 turns out to be a vegan advocacy group. So I 397 00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:00.640 turned to official science papers for some sanity, and there 398 00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.359 was one about how eggs have gotten such a bad 399 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:07.839 rap and seriously, they are fine, And I was like Okay, 400 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.839 cool science paper, I trust you. And then I scrolled 401 00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:13.319