WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.279 What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. In 2 00:00:03.319 --> 00:00:05.440 this episode, we're going to pick up where we left 3 00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:11.039 off talking about Larry Vasaski. The government clearly understood Avasaski 4 00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:14.800 mattered because federal prosecutors placed him before the jury during 5 00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:19.920 Maxwell's criminal trial. His testimony helped establish the internal architecture 6 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:24.079 of Epstein's world before survivors testified about what occurred within it. 7 00:00:25.519 --> 00:00:30.719 That prosecutorial decision alone demonstrates that Vasaski was not considered irrelevant, 8 00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:35.520 yet being useful enough to establish Epstein's operational environment raises 9 00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:42.039 another question about whether authorities fully explored contradictions, inconsistencies, or 10 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:47.039 gaps between what employees said they observed and what survivors described. 11 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:50.920 The point of an investigation is not to presume guilt, 12 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:57.039 but to subject potentially important witnesses to documentary verification. With Vasoski, 13 00:00:57.200 --> 00:01:00.840 decades of records existed against which his RECQORAE elections could 14 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:05.680 theoretically be compared, making his position exceptionally valuable to anyone 15 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:10.560 determined to reconstruct the entire enterprise. Consider what a pilot 16 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:14.840 necessarily knows even without ever witnessing conduct occurring behind a 17 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:18.719 closed cabin door. He knows destinations because he must physically 18 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:22.079 fly the aircraft to them. He knows approximate travel dates 19 00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:25.719 because he's responsible for making the flight happen. He knows 20 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:31.319 many passengers because aviation regulations and operational requirements make passenger 21 00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:36.000 identity and aircraft loading relevant. He knows which locations are 22 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:40.760 visited repeatedly and which journeys depart unexpectedly. He knows which 23 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:45.640 employees communicate travel instructions and which individuals receive special treatment. 24 00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:50.000 He knows when aircraft are repositioned without Epsteina a board 25 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:53.599 and when another crew members takes over. He knows how 26 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:57.480 often particular properties are visited and whether certain passengers recur 27 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:02.040 on particular routes. That's why Yasaski's value to investigators should 28 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:05.840 have extended far beyond asking the narrow question of whether 29 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:10.240 he personally witnessed sexual activity aboard the plane. The famous 30 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:14.759 cockpit door explanation illustrates exactly why the questioning surrounding Vasaski 31 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:19.439 has remained controversial. Vasaski testified that the cockpit door was 32 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:22.599 closed while he was flying and denied seeing sexual activity 33 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:27.240 aboard Epstein's aircraft. Taken literally, that could perfectly well explain 34 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:31.759 why a pilot actively controlling an aircraft did not observe 35 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:36.400 events occurring inside the passenger cabin. But the relevant investigative 36 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:40.000 inquiry should never have ended with whether the pilot physically 37 00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:45.199 watched the sex act while airborne. Epstein's operation extended across decades, 38 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:50.199 thousands of miles, numerous residences, and countless interactions on the ground. 39 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:55.800 Pilots leave cockpits, arrive at hangers, wait for passengers, observe departures, 40 00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:00.360 coordinate vehicles, communicate with staff, and spend considerable time around 41 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:05.319 employers outside the few hours during which they're manipulating aircraft control. 42 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:10.199 Vossaske's own long tenure meant his interaction with Epstein's universe 43 00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:16.240 necessarily extended across an enormous period. An investigator interested only 44 00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:19.120 in what he could see through a cockpit doorway would 45 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:23.960 therefore be asking an artificially narrow question. The meaningful issue 46 00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:28.280 was what patterns Vasaski observed over nearly thirty years, and 47 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:33.039 whether those patterns matched what prosecutors eventually established about Epstein 48 00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:37.240 and Maxwell. The absence of direct eyewitness testimony to sexual 49 00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:42.120 conduct does not eliminate the enormous, circumstantial and logistical knowledge 50 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:47.240 a long time insider like Vasaski might possess. I think 51 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:52.439 that Maxwell's trial demonstrated this distinction particularly well because Vasaski's 52 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:57.120 testimony helped jurors understand that hierarchy. He betrayed Maxwell as 53 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:01.360 an extremely important figure in Epstein's life, effectively identifying her 54 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:04.759 as second only at Epstein within the environment he observed, 55 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:08.800 and that was a scorcher. Because Maxwell's defense attempted to 56 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:13.439 distance her from the responsibility of Epstein's conduct. Vysoski could 57 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:16.279 speak to her importance because he had spent years watching 58 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:21.720 how Epstein's world actually worked. That is, institutional knowledge in 59 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:26.040 its purest form. Organizations often have formal titles that tell 60 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:31.279 outsiders very little, while employees understand exactly who possesses real authority. 61 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:36.000 Veyssoski's description of Maxwell revealed that he understood at least 62 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:39.720 some of those internal power dynamics. If he could identify 63 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:43.439 the hierarchy at the very top, investigators had obvious reasons 64 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:46.720 to ask what else he understood about the people operating 65 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:51.639 beneath it, who requested flights, who arrange passengers, who travel repeatedly, 66 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:56.279 who greeted arrivals, who control properties, and who communicated Epstein's 67 00:04:56.319 --> 00:05:01.480 instructions were all questions falling naturally within his observational universe. 68 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.560 Once again, none of these answers necessarily would have implicated 69 00:05:05.639 --> 00:05:08.800 Vesoski himself, but they could have helped map a conspiracy 70 00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:14.759 much broader than two people eventually prosecuted federally. And this 71 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:17.920 is why the government's historically narrow handling of the Epstein 72 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:23.680 investigation becomes impossible to separate from the Vesosky question. Epstein's 73 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:29.079 criminal world contained recruiters, schedulers, household employees, pilots, financial professionals, 74 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:33.639 property personnel, and numerous other people who interacted with different 75 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:38.480 pieces of his existence. A serious enterprise investigation should have 76 00:05:38.519 --> 00:05:42.759 attempted to determine where innocent employment ended, where wilful blindness 77 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:47.639 may have begun, and where knowing facilitation could potentially be established. 78 00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:53.160 Those categories are legally and morally different, and collapsing them 79 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:57.839 together would be unfair, but refusing to explore them would 80 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:02.399 be equally unacceptable. Federal conspiracy law does not punish someone 81 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:06.120 merely for working for a criminal, nor does association transform 82 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:11.680 an employee into a conspirator. Prosecutors generally need evidence demonstrating 83 00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:17.199 knowing participation in an unlawful agreement or another independently chargeable offense, 84 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:23.199 but determining whether such evidence exists requires aggressive investigation of 85 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:27.279 the very insiders most capable of explaining the organization, and 86 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:30.959 vesosky Is extraordinarily long tenure put him near the top 87 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:36.519 of that list. And of course, Epstein's aircraft were particularly 88 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:41.600 important because geography was central to a system. Survivors described 89 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:45.839 abuse at multiple properties, and Epstein's aeroplanes provided the bridge 90 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:51.000 connecting those properties. Zora Ranch alone demonstrates why this matters, 91 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:54.639 because the secluded New Mexico compound sat far from the 92 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:59.639 scrutiny surrounding Manhattan or Upon Beach. According to survivor accounts 93 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:04.480 and subsequent investigations, abuse occurred at the ranch. While New 94 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:08.360 Mexico officials later complained that the property had never received 95 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:12.560 the federal investigative attention, its significance warranted. The failure to 96 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:16.800 fully investigate Zoro Ranch when Epstein was alive also magnified 97 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:20.800 the importance of people like the Saski. Investigators can recover 98 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:24.839 physical evidence from a property, but they can't recover conversations 99 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:29.519 that disappeared decades earlier. Unless witnesses remember them or records 100 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:34.720 captured them. Employees become living archives. In cases involving long 101 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:39.800 running organizations, a long time pilot can potentially remember unusual 102 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:44.800 passenger requests, recurring travel patterns, periods of intense activity, and 103 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:49.879 relationships that documents alone can explain, and these are exactly 104 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:55.160 the details that transform isolated documents into a coherent investigative chronology. 105 00:07:55.759 --> 00:08:01.120 Vesoski decades of continuity made them unusually valuable because employees 106 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:04.920 came and went while he remained, and allowing such institutional 107 00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:10.360 knowledge to disappear without exhaustive public accounting represents an enormous 108 00:08:10.360 --> 00:08:15.800 misopportunity in any investigation of Epstein's network. Then, of course, 109 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:18.560 there's the issue of loyalty, a subject that can't be 110 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:22.720 ignored when analyzing Epstein's inner circle. Epstein did not simply 111 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:26.480 employ Vesoski briefly before moving on to another pilot. He 112 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:29.480 kept them around for almost the entirety of the period 113 00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:33.600 during which Epstein developed the lifestyle that eventually became inseparable 114 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:39.879 from allegations of systematic sexual abuse. Long term employment creates 115 00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:44.559 economic dependence and often personal loyalty, especially in the rarefied 116 00:08:44.679 --> 00:08:50.279 environment of private aviation reports and records concerning land, financial arrangements, 117 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:54.159 and other benefits reinforce the impression that Vessoski's relationship with 118 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:59.039 Epstein exceeded a completely impersonal commercial transaction, and while that 119 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:04.600 might not establish criminality, it does establish a relationship worthy 120 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:08.799 of careful examination, because loyalty can influence what employees notice, 121 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:13.879 what they rationalized, and what they eventually tell investigators. Epstein 122 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:17.360 possessed enormous wealth and could substantially improve the lives of 123 00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:22.000 people whose cooperation he valued. Investigators confronting such a structure 124 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:28.559 should always examine whether benefits were ordinary compensation, generosity, retention incentives, 125 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:32.879 or something more complicated. The public deserves to know whether 126 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:36.159 those questions were pursued with the intensity appropriate to a 127 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:41.279 decade's long sex trafficking investigation, rather than simply assuming that 128 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:45.240 employment relationships were innocent or sinister without doing the work. 129 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:50.320 One of the most frustrating aspects of the Epstein saga 130 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:53.840 is that the public repeatedly received fragments rather than a 131 00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:58.399 complete organizational picture. We learned about the flight logs without 132 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:02.200 always receiving a compar yetsive explanation of the flights. We 133 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:06.879 learned about assistance without seeing every investigative interview conducted with them. 134 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:10.679 We learned about properties long after opportunities to search them 135 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:15.200 had vanished. We learned about financial relationships through civil lawsuits 136 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:19.679 years after Epstein's first prosecution. We learned through Maxwell's trial 137 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:24.440 that longtime employees could describe internal hierarchy even while denying 138 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:29.799 awareness of criminal conduct. Thesaski embodies that fragmentation, perhaps better 139 00:10:29.960 --> 00:10:35.360 than almost anyone. His name appeared across flight records, testimony, correspondence, 140 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:38.799 and the broader history of Epstein's properties, but the public 141 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:43.879 has never received anything resembling a complete prosecatorial accounting of 142 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:47.159 what authorities determined about his knowledge. Look At the end 143 00:10:47.240 --> 00:10:51.240 of the day, Larry Vsasky matters because Jeffrey Epstein could 144 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:55.240 not have maintained his extraordinary lifestyle alone. Epstein required people 145 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:59.840 who flew airplanes, maintained properties, arranged schedules, handled money and 146 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:04.080 us through telephones, coordinated visitors, and solve problems. Some of 147 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:08.399 those people may have been entirely innocent employees performing legitimate 148 00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:12.320 jobs for an employer whose criminal conduct remained hidden from them. 149 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:17.240 Others could theoretically have possessed varying degrees of knowledge, suspicion, 150 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:21.279 or involvement, and only evidence can tell us where particular 151 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:27.960 individuals belonged on that spectrum. Vososki's longevity and proximity make 152 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:32.039 him especially important because very few people observed Epstein's movements 153 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:35.840 over such an extended period. He witnessed the evolution of 154 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:39.120 Epstein's empire from the early nineties through the years of 155 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:44.440 criminal investigation, conviction, renewed social rehabilitation, and eventual federal arrest. 156 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:50.440 He transported Epstein while the financier accumulated powerful acquaintances and 157 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:55.759 maintained residences across multiple jurisdictions. He watched Maxwell occupy a 158 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:59.320 position important enough that he later described her as Epstein's 159 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:03.480 number two. He remained close enough to the operation that 160 00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:07.639 prosecutors called him during the most consequential Epstein related criminal 161 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:10.960 trial ever completed, and that's precisely why the lack of 162 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:16.200 broader accountabilities surrounding Epstein's infrastructure remained so maddening. The federal 163 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:20.360 government successfully convicted Glene Maxwell, proving beyond a reasonable doubt 164 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:24.759 that Epstein did not operate entirely alone. Once that proposition 165 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:29.720 became legally established, the obvious investigative question was how far 166 00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:34.440 the architecture of assistants extended. Not every employee was a conspirator, 167 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:38.159 and accusing people without evidence just produces the very kind 168 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:42.840 of injustice legitimate investigations are supposed to prevent. But an 169 00:12:42.919 --> 00:12:47.000 organization capable of moving Epstein's staff, young women, guests and 170 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:52.639 associates across numerous properties for years unquestionably depended upon infrastructure, 171 00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:56.279 and aviation was one of the most important pieces of 172 00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:01.200 that infrastructure. And Larry Vassoski sat inside that aviation operation 173 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:04.639 longer than anybody. And that's why it's important that Vasaski 174 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:09.399 is not understood as just a byproduct or somebody in 175 00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:13.159 the back pages. He occupied a front row position to 176 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.919 the logistics of Epstein's existence for a period spanning nearly 177 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.519 thirty years. He knew the aircraft, the destinations, the properties, 178 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:23.799 the travel rhythms, and many of the personalities passing through 179 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:27.840 Epstein's world. Epstein apparently trusted him enough to maintain the 180 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:31.879 relationship across decades and extend benefits while beyond the fleeting 181 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:38.360 commercial association. Maxwell's prosecution demonstrated that Vasaski understood at least 182 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:42.759 part of the hierarchy surrounding Epstein. While release correspondence has 183 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:47.240 further illuminated how deeply aviation was integrated into Epstein's day 184 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:51.000 to day logistics, whether that knowledge ever across the line 185 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:54.120 into criminal awareness is a question that must be answered 186 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:59.120 with evidence, but there should be no ambiguity whatsoever about 187 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:03.720 whether authorities had reason to investigate the question aggressively when 188 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:07.960 a convicted sex offender maintained a sprawling interstate and international 189 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:12.360 operation involving private aircraft, remote properties, and the movement of 190 00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:16.519 young women. The longtime chief pilot was an obvious witness 191 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:21.919 whose knowledge demanded exhaustive examination. The enduring scandal is not 192 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:25.720 that the public can conclusively declare Larry Vsasky a criminal, 193 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:30.000 because the publicly established record does not justify that conclusion. 194 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:34.120 The enduring scandal is that everything we know about Jeffrey Epstein, 195 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:38.480 Americans are still left asking what one of his longest 196 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:42.279 serving and must trust it insiders knew, what investigators learned 197 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:46.360 from them, and why the government has never provided anything 198 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:52.840 close to a satisfactory answer. All the information that goes 199 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:55.960 with this episode can be found in the description box.