WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:01.639 So what happened was there was this Genius Act, the 2 00:00:01.639 --> 00:00:04.200 stable Coin Bill regulation. Now there was this push from 3 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:06.719 the banks and the Community Bank saying, our deposits are 4 00:00:06.759 --> 00:00:08.720 going to try up. Therefore, we have a prohibition on 5 00:00:08.759 --> 00:00:11.199 interstparing stable coins. So that deal was done for the 6 00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:13.439 Genius Act. Fast forward to now the mark Structure Bill 7 00:00:13.560 --> 00:00:15.800 sits in the Senate, and the banks over the August 8 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:18.679 recess said, you know what, you have to open up 9 00:00:18.679 --> 00:00:21.079 the Genius Act that we endorsed two months ago that 10 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:24.679 passed already and ban affiliates so like reward programs on coinbase, 11 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:27.440 as well as brokers and dealers from offering inters bearing 12 00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:30.600 stable coin products. They're a very well funded industry and 13 00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:32.000 they have a lot of money to play with. So 14 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:34.439 its a crypto industry and it's going to be a really, 15 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:36.560 i mean candidly a fight of the juggernauts in DC 16 00:00:36.679 --> 00:00:37.719 for these next couple of weeks. 17 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:44.799 This episode is brought to you by Treasure. 18 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:48.320 Treasure makes beautifully crafted hardware wallets that'll allow you to 19 00:00:48.439 --> 00:00:52.000 easily and safely store your crypto assets. Treasure has been 20 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:54.719 in the game for a very long time, since twenty thirteen. 21 00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:58.359 They were the pioneers of hardware wallets and the seed 22 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:01.920 phrase setup, and their hardwareles are open source. In fact, 23 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:05.519 my favorite is the Treasure Save five. 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So if 35 00:01:39.719 --> 00:01:43.760 you'd like to learn more, visit the link in the description. Hey, everybody, 36 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:46.560 welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony 37 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:49.599 Edward and we're recording at Station three in New York's 38 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:50.599 Financial District. 39 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:52.439 And my guests, who. 40 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:54.840 Needs no introduction, but I will have to introduce them, 41 00:01:54.920 --> 00:01:57.680 it's Ron Hammond, who is the head of policy and 42 00:01:57.760 --> 00:01:59.239 Advocacy at Winter Mute. 43 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:01.959 Great to have you first time in studio. 44 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:04.319 It's pretty crazy, and I've done so many of these 45 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:06.239 and now it's awesome to see how far you've grown 46 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:08.159 and how much this operation has become. 47 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:10.479 So congrats and it's great to be in the studio. 48 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:10.960 Thank you. 49 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:11.159 Man. 50 00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:14.280 I consider you a friend because we've spoken so many 51 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:18.080 times on maybe over thirty interviews over the past four years. 52 00:02:18.439 --> 00:02:20.400 And yeah, like I said, really awesome to have this 53 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:21.800 doing this in person. 54 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:23.599 With and no Georgia drama. So let's get into it. 55 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:26.680 Yeah, well you're no longer at the Blockchain Association. 56 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:29.080 Tell us about winter and your role there. 57 00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:29.960 Yeah, definitely. So. 58 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:32.280 Warmute is a prop trading firm the base out of 59 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:36.240 the UK. Actually, they were after the election looking to 60 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:38.120 get back into the United States. I brought the CEO 61 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:40.039 when I was at the Blockchain Association, as well as 62 00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:42.080 the COO and a few others from the Winter mut 63 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:43.599 team over to the White House. We had a lot 64 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:46.000 of great meetings and talk about how wear music was 65 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:47.879 I and come back to the United States. And it 66 00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:51.199 was after that White House meeting with Yevgeny that they 67 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:52.919 reach out saying, hey, we're looking to build a team 68 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:54.879 and we think it'd be great to have someone like 69 00:02:54.919 --> 00:02:57.159 you on board, and I was looking for a new challenge, 70 00:02:57.560 --> 00:02:59.039 and you know, they wanted to move up to New 71 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:01.400 York and decided to take them up on the challenge. 72 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:02.599 And it's been really exciting. 73 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:04.439 So I'm only two and a half months in three 74 00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:07.080 months in so far, but it's been a lot of 75 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:09.199 travel DC. I also cover the UK, which has got 76 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:11.560 a lot of policy developments as well that I'm getting into. 77 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:14.120 But for me, it's been really exciting because I really 78 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:15.479 want to be on the front lines of the TRAT 79 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:17.840 five versus Crypto fight, because we've all been talking about 80 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:18.680 that's gonna be happening. 81 00:03:18.919 --> 00:03:21.280 But now kind of on the front lines here. 82 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:23.159 So it's US and a lot of folks in crypto 83 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:24.680 were over and soho and they got a we work 84 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:27.360 obviously you're working down here in fi II. Yeah, cryptos 85 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:29.120 creeping in on Wall Street. It's pretty exciting to see. 86 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:31.319 And I'm excited for this role. So it's a lot 87 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:32.960 of the same that was doing a blot chain association, 88 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:35.879 but uh, now for one individual company. But you know, 89 00:03:35.919 --> 00:03:38.719 as a market maker, what's good for the marketmakers and 90 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:41.240 liquid providers is good for pretty much everyone. Ecosystem. So 91 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:42.960 that's kind of the unique role we have, and I'm 92 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:44.120 really excited to get more into it. 93 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:46.479 You know, Winter Made I've heard a lot about over 94 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:48.960 the years, are you guys the largest market maker in 95 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:49.800 the crypto industry? 96 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:51.560 You know, there's a different metrics I've been saying, so 97 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:55.800 some folks say they we are. You know, I haven't seen, like, 98 00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:57.360 you know, the definitive stats on that stuff. But again 99 00:03:57.400 --> 00:03:58.680 it depends on the volume and stuff like that, but 100 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:00.400 overall to say, we're probably one of the largest, if 101 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:01.120 not the largest. 102 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:02.360 So it's really exciting. 103 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:04.719 That's you know, just coming from the UK and Singapore side, 104 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:06.599 right and we just launch a whole New York office 105 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:08.639 and we're building that team or working on the licenses 106 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:12.080 and the regulation, which is obviously my role here, and 107 00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:14.840 so once that gets more in the place, the growth 108 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:15.680 is gonna be exponential. 109 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:16.439 So we're really excited. 110 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:17.920 So it's kind of like a startup vibe right now 111 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:19.279 in New York in our office of like five or 112 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:22.319 six guys, and now we're really excited to be expanding 113 00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:24.720 as time goes on, and you know, it's only up 114 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:25.079 from here. 115 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:28.639 That's exciting, man, And it's just you know, analogous of 116 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:30.839 everything that's been going on with crypto. With a more 117 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:33.279 favorable environment, people are coming back to the United States 118 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:37.319 looking to expand they're no longer in fear like what 119 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:38.759 it was over the past four years. 120 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:40.560 No, it's been crazy and it's weirdest think that New 121 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:42.199 York is kind of like the epicenter of that. But 122 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:43.879 we were just talking about, you know, I was spending 123 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:46.680 time between Miami and DC last year, and in Miami 124 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:49.120 the scene was huge, especially in the twenty twenty one, 125 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:51.480 the twenty twenty four days. But I've seen a lot 126 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:53.839 of excess now go into New York because folks realize 127 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:56.600 the trad five fights here, the institutional money is coming 128 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:58.279 in and this is the time to build, and this 129 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:01.720 is the time to grind. Seen that all across you know, 130 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:03.800 the ecosystem, but especially in New York. It's been really 131 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:06.600 crazy to see how much SOHO is full of fashion 132 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:10.879 girlies and crypto bros. It's it's a very different, unique situation. 133 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:12.879 But I'm here for it and I'm excited for like 134 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:14.199 this next phase of crypto. This is gonna be a 135 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:14.639 fun one. 136 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:16.920 Yeah, it feels like we're at the costboard to start 137 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:20.399 of a next economic boom powered by these new technologies 138 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:23.199 like blockchain, crypto, AI and so forth. But blockchain crypto 139 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:25.560 playing a big part of it. I mean, Ron, We've 140 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:27.920 had how many companies go public and we're down by 141 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:33.199 Wall Street just last week, Gemini a bigcoin, American bigcoin yesterday. 142 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:34.560 It's wild, it's crazy. 143 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:35.680 And I think we were on the ropes just a 144 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:37.839 couple of years ago after FTX, but even before that 145 00:05:37.879 --> 00:05:40.000 with the ico, you know bus you could say in 146 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:42.480 twenty eighteen, you know, there's been several times folks that 147 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:45.600 put this industry out and we're here, we're rocking, and 148 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:48.160 we're better than ever. And in some cases, you know, 149 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:49.759 the trad fi folks are getting a little you know, 150 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:52.720 nervous now. So again, this is the next phase of 151 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:54.720 the fight cryptos used to fights, and I'm excited to 152 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:55.600 see what happens next. 153 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:58.959 So, speaking of the trad fi fights, I think I 154 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:03.360 saw a Summer Mersinger's article this morning about banks are 155 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:05.680 trying to push back on some of the Genius Act. 156 00:06:06.439 --> 00:06:08.639 Yeah, so for folks who are unaware of what happened 157 00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:10.560 in DC. So what happened was there was this Genius Act, 158 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:13.319 the stable coin bill regulation. Now, there was this push 159 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:16.000 from the banks and the community bank saying, our deposits, 160 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:17.879 especially in rule banks and community banks, are going to 161 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:20.519 dry up. Therefore, we have a prohibition on interest bearing 162 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:23.120 stable coins. And that was the agreement to more the 163 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:25.600 crypto industry saying, hey, we believe this is going to 164 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:27.639 be you know, a thread to our deposits. We disagreed, 165 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:29.399 but in order to get a bill forward, there had 166 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:31.120 to be the banks and crypto to be you know, 167 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:32.839 in some way aligned here. And so that was a 168 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:35.040 deal struck in the Genius Act. Again, it wasn't the 169 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:37.560 best for crypto, wasn't the best for the banks, but overall, 170 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:40.680 that's legislation. Not everyone's happy. So that deal was done 171 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:42.639 for the Genius Act. Fast forward to now the Mark 172 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:44.680 Structure Bill. This is the last big crypto bill at 173 00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:46.600 least on the docket right now. It sits in the Senate. 174 00:06:46.759 --> 00:06:49.800 Sure and the banks over the August recess said, you 175 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:52.639 know what, our way to get us on board actually 176 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:54.519 with the legislation is that you have to open up 177 00:06:54.519 --> 00:06:56.920 the Genius Act that we endorsed two months ago. That 178 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.279 past already, you had to open that back up and 179 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:02.319 ban a field, so like reward programs on coinbase, as 180 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:04.879 well as a brokers and dealers from offering in just 181 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:08.920 bearing stable coin products. And that's the funny part is 182 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:10.639 and ay, didn't you endorse that legislation would be also 183 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:12.920 that bill's done, so it's kind of i mean, the 184 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:15.600 upside with crypto policy, it's very transparent, so like to 185 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:17.519 the everyday person, you're like, yeah, this seems like a 186 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:19.959 pretty flawed strategy here, but at least right now, that's 187 00:07:19.959 --> 00:07:22.240 where the banks are digging their heels in. And again, 188 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:24.600 they're a very well funded industry and they have a 189 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:26.399 lot of money to play with, and they have you know, 190 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:29.800 in the past, been very effective in DC so but 191 00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:31.920 so as a crypto industry, and it's going to be 192 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:34.279 a really, i mean candidly a fight of the juggernauts 193 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:36.480 in DC for these next couple of weeks. So we'll 194 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:38.600 see what happens on that front. But overall, we're seeing 195 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:41.360 now that the banks, which we expected for years, kind 196 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:43.360 of now stick their head up on the water and say, yeah, 197 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:45.800 you know, we're not either ready for it yet, or 198 00:07:45.800 --> 00:07:48.759 we should put on the brakes here, or maybe we 199 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:51.360 need to, you know, build a motor bigger for our competition, 200 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:52.800 so they don't really take our business away. 201 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:54.040 But hey, guess what, that's the market. 202 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:57.040 So you know, ron, sometimes I fire off on x 203 00:07:57.160 --> 00:07:58.759 bit tongue in cheek and I'll say, you know what 204 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:01.120 this is because of the banks. You know, they're getting 205 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:04.920 disrupted and their actions are speaking louder than their words. 206 00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:08.199 Almost here where you have the clarity people are not 207 00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:12.319 moving to on chain networks right using stable coins earning 208 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:15.319 higher yield. Why do I keep my cash into checking 209 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:17.439 and just move it over to coinbase or whatever it is. 210 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:20.319 It seems like they're trying to fight back, But in 211 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:23.560 addition they're also building their own blockchains and their own 212 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:24.319 stable coins. 213 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:26.839 And that's the typical kind of lobbying playbook in DC 214 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:28.959 is if you're not ready for something or a product 215 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:31.839 delay delay delay or throws many ropeblocks, you can until 216 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:33.879 your internal systems are built up, or it may make 217 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:36.840 some acquisitions and then you're ready to go again. I 218 00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:38.639 don't want to say broadly it's all the banks here, 219 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:41.799 you know, who are universally opposed to in justsparing stable 220 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:43.639 coins or the crypto industry by no means. I mean 221 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:45.279 I was dealing with a lot of banks when I 222 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:47.879 was working on legislation back in twenty sixteen on like 223 00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:50.080 more cussy rules and stuff like that, like with Bny Mellon. 224 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:53.759 So there's a lot of traditional banks and nutritial players 225 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:56.080 that want this kind of legislation. Sure, there's just some 226 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:58.679 folks who want that moat building or maybe aren't ready yet. 227 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:00.919 You know, we've seen more of the traceiations for the banks, 228 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:03.480 like American bankers and bank policies to stick their heads 229 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:05.559 up versus individual banks. But I'm sure as the fight 230 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:08.320 gets a little more aggressive in the next couple months, 231 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:11.399 maybe we'll see individual banks more being you know, taking 232 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:15.159 them banter and saying, hey, you know, we oppose this provision. 233 00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:17.360 We think the mohould be bigger for banks. So we'll 234 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:19.600 see what happens. But it's going to get pretty nuts 235 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:20.039 pretty soon. 236 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:22.639 We'll see how that plays out. But you know, to 237 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:24.840 your point, the crypto industry, we're ready to fight. We 238 00:09:25.039 --> 00:09:28.320 followed the past four years under Operation Choke point two 239 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:29.080 point zero. 240 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:29.399 And much more. 241 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:31.679 Oh yeah, and again to say like there were a 242 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:33.320 lot of banks, you know, we got de banked obviously 243 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:35.519 during the Silicon Valley bank issue, a lot of folks, 244 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:38.720 individual's incomanies got deplatform or debanked, but we did see 245 00:09:38.759 --> 00:09:40.559 a lot of banks, even some like JP Morgan who 246 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:42.879 were posed publicly to banks actually ended up banking a 247 00:09:42.919 --> 00:09:44.840 lot of crypto industry that was debanked back in March 248 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:47.080 of twenty twenty three. So it's kind of funny to 249 00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:50.440 see how this interplay of crypto and tratify and the 250 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:53.039 banks are happening. So we're allies in some cases, we're 251 00:09:53.159 --> 00:09:55.840 enemies in other cases, and that's just kind of the 252 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:57.879 interesting weave we have with the DC. But again to 253 00:09:57.879 --> 00:10:00.360 the credit for everyone involved in the policy world. You 254 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:02.120 can see a lot of this very publicly on Twitter 255 00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:03.600 and seeing kind of where the camps are and where 256 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:05.840 their opinions are and make a decision for yourself. And 257 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:07.840 that's where I think, you know, crypto has the advantage 258 00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:09.960 because a I think we have the winning arguments, but 259 00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:12.080 b also we're winning a lot of votes here and 260 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:13.840 it's like two thirds of Congress. Now, I mean, that's 261 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:15.720 very rare for any issue to be two thirds of 262 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:17.919 Congress on any issue, but we have two thirds of 263 00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:20.600 Congress supporting these bills stable Coins and Clarity Act. 264 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:23.480 You know, the momentum is on the one side, it's 265 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:24.120 not for the banks. 266 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:27.120 So speaking of Congress and the Clarity Act, we heard 267 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:29.480 from White House cryptos are David Sachs, I think back 268 00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:32.639 in August that come late September the process will start. 269 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:34.799 What can you tell us about the Clarity Act and 270 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:35.759 where we're at right now? 271 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:37.879 Sure things So just a cat chokes up everything. So again, 272 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:40.080 Genius Act done, Stable Coin's done. Now that we have 273 00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:42.960 the Clarity Act, that's the big market structure bill that 274 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:45.399 everyone's been talking about. Where's the SEC's line, where's the 275 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:48.799 CFTC's line, what's the cutsy rules, and several other provisions 276 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:50.759 that are really important just for you know, markets to 277 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:52.960 operate here in the United States and create those clear 278 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:55.399 rules that companies like wear a Mute very much need. 279 00:10:55.440 --> 00:10:56.840 We need to have those clear rules if we're going 280 00:10:56.840 --> 00:10:58.679 to operate in the bounds of the law, and we 281 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:00.080 need to have the bounds of the law out there. 282 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:02.240 So this is the big bill passed the House with 283 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:04.679 over two thirds of the House supporting it back in July. 284 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:08.840 Huge margins again, huge, huge, huge margins. But the Senate 285 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:11.039 they decided to take up their own version and we've 286 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:12.720 seen a couple of drafts come out so far. There 287 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:15.000 was a draft that came out about two weeks ago 288 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:17.600 and it was from the Senate Bank Committee and then 289 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:19.919 the Senate Committee. That there's two committees involved, who does 290 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:22.320 more of the CFTC stuff. They're still working on their draft, 291 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:24.279 but what looks like we're having right now is that 292 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:27.600 September thirtieth is what Senate Banking is telling folks publicly 293 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:29.360 is that they want to have a markup or a 294 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:31.879 vote in their committee. It's kind of step one or 295 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:34.519 two of the ten step process, but they want to 296 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:37.159 have that vote and get the process moving September thirtieth. 297 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:38.519 Now they still have to have a vote in the 298 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:41.360 Act Committee, but at least for right now, the day 299 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:43.600 to look at it is September thirtieth. Possibly it depends 300 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:46.440 if we have a shutdown, but we'll be seeing more 301 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:49.960 elizive warranty off against Tim Scott, Cynthia Lummis, Bill Haggerty, 302 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:52.720 and several other pro cryptocienters on both sides of the aisle. 303 00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:54.679 And that's gonna be the first step to see how 304 00:11:54.759 --> 00:11:57.039 much legs does this have. Again, it will be a 305 00:11:57.080 --> 00:11:59.440 different bill than the Clarity Act, So that means that 306 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:01.600 the House will have to eventually vote on whatever comes 307 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:04.159 out of the Senate. So and now we're seeing big 308 00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:06.720 established players like the banks kind of draw their hard lines. 309 00:12:06.759 --> 00:12:08.600 The crypto industry has drawn their hard lines where they 310 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:11.399 want to support and not support. So it's going to 311 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:13.039 get pretty nasty. And again, as we saw with the 312 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:15.840 Genius Act, which is kind of considered the easier abilities too. Sure, 313 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:18.080 we saw the Credit Card Competition Act in, so we 314 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:21.120 had credit cards and exchange interchange fees somehow get looped 315 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:23.799 into this bill. We saw some dramas essential bank digital 316 00:12:23.799 --> 00:12:26.240 currencies come in and almost derail the entire bill itself. 317 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:28.799 So you know, this is crypto and politics. There is 318 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:31.159 no shorge of drama, and buckle up. I'm sure we're 319 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:32.519 going to see a repeat of a lot of these 320 00:12:32.679 --> 00:12:35.720 uh instances and drama points very shortly. 321 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:37.360 I want to make sure I'm clear on something here 322 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:39.679 in regards to that bill, because I know that Senate 323 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:43.320 Democrats introduced a version. Were you saying that something else 324 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:45.679 has to be voted in the House or once it 325 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:47.639 passes the Senate, it's going to the president. 326 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:48.960 If it's different than what the House pass was the 327 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:49.480 Clarity Act. 328 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:51.039 Then the House has to say, have to vote on 329 00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:52.360 it as well, so they have to vote in the 330 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:54.440 exact same piece of legislation. So we kind of saw 331 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:55.840 that with the Genius Act, where the House had the 332 00:12:55.840 --> 00:12:58.720 Stable Act, Senate had a Genius Act, and the Genius 333 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:00.639 Act won out, and the House had kind of stomach 334 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:02.679 it and vote on the Senate version rather than their 335 00:13:02.679 --> 00:13:04.960 own version. Again, so that's kind of what we're seeing 336 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:07.879 play out at least right now. But there could be 337 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:10.200 a situation where there's so much drama and politics involved 338 00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:11.759 that the Senate says, screw it, we'll just do the 339 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:13.600 Clarity Act and just like if we vote out here, 340 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:15.159 it doesn't have to go back to the House. But 341 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:17.039 the problem is that the Senate, you're going to need 342 00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:18.759 a lot of Democrats support yes. And that's where you 343 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:21.440 reference the twelve Democrats here. You have to get sixty 344 00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:23.480 votes in the Senate out of one hundred people to 345 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:26.080 advance this bill. And as we saw the Genius Act, 346 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:28.120 you know it's not guarantee you and get all the Republicans. 347 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:31.279 We saw two drop off on that vote and then 348 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:33.279 can't leay the Democrats are in a position of the negotiating 349 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:35.919 power here. So they laid out their principles. One of 350 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:38.399 them didn't include the provision on interspearing table coins. So 351 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:41.320 I'm sure the banks are happy about that provision being included. 352 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:43.480 By no means is that guarantee that's going to be 353 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:45.279 in the bill. But there was a laundry list of 354 00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:47.559 things that they want, and they understand that if to 355 00:13:47.559 --> 00:13:49.919 get the sixty votes, they're going to probably need at 356 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:51.559 least ten, if not eleven, of. 357 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:52.639 Those twelve to come on board. 358 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:55.399 So this is where the jocking comes in politics, and 359 00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:56.799 a lot of that's happened behind closed doors. 360 00:13:56.799 --> 00:13:58.360 So get ready to get exciting. 361 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:03.200 Do you think that Trump's families businesses involving crypto will 362 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:05.919 be a roadblock? Because I know Elizabeth Warren is chomping 363 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:08.279 on the bit to say, look, they're making a ton 364 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:09.000 of money off of this. 365 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:10.879 Do you think that might be a problem. 366 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:11.759 Oh, one hundred percent. 367 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:13.080 I mean, we've already seen that play out in the 368 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:15.039 House already where it was a dominating factor both in 369 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:17.000 several market votes as well as just the debate on 370 00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:20.120 the House floor, but overall, actually compared to FIT twenty one, 371 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:22.240 which is the market sucture built from two years ago 372 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:24.759 the House vote on even with all the Trump drama 373 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:27.720 and the Trump involvement in crypto, we've actually got more 374 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.639 Democrats to support the bill this go around, So I think, 375 00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:32.919 you know, it's a lot of noise more than anything, 376 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:35.159 and it's kind of weird. Also, if you see DC media, 377 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:37.759 you'll talk about how the really financial netted the Trump 378 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:39.840 family like five billion dollars, But then if you look 379 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:42.799 at more the market media and financial media, you'll see 380 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:45.639 more how really financial taint and it's been to flop entirely. 381 00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:48.080 So I think there's also information flows that you know, 382 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:50.399 different people are getting. But at the end of the day, 383 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:52.200 at least I look at the House voats and I say, 384 00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:55.879 I'm optimistic. That being said, though there was one, you know, 385 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.000 several points actually the Democrats raise in their twelve or 386 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:02.240 the twelve Democrats raise in their points on the competent 387 00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:04.720 interest for the Trump family. So I'm sure it will 388 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:06.440 be a dominating factor in a lot of debate in 389 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:06.840 the Senate. 390 00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:08.519 So we'll see what happens. 391 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:13.480 Yeah, I'm kind of concerned about that part. Ron, So realistically, 392 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.720 do you think this bill gets past late October? Or 393 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:20.440 maybe it is November or till December before everybody goes 394 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:21.120 on break. 395 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:25.159 You know, i'd Simnel Lumbus said at Salt Wyoming she's 396 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:27.480 hoping to get done before December. And I think that's 397 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:30.240 actually a pretty realistic timeline. Again, even though we're having 398 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:34.360 hypothetically a vote September thirtieth on half of the bill, 399 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:35.919 we still go way through other half of the bill 400 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:37.639 to come out Senate. Our culture, that's going to probably 401 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:40.039