Speaker 1: I'm really excited about my guests this evening. I've known
Alejandro for quite over a decade now and we became
good friends, and he and I were on each other's show.
If you have listened to old shows, you would hear
and him over at Openminds dot Tv his UFO show.
We were trading back and forth for every show for
I don't know a few years anyway, maybe even longer.
But anyway, I'm really excited to have Alejandro on. He
has a new nonprofit that he has founded and started
that has to do with uap UFOs and this week
we have a truck of reports. A UFO follows him nightly.
So really interest in case again our bloggers Charles Lear
and check that out over at podcastufo dot com. And
without further ado, I'm bringing in our special guests, Alejandro.
Speaker 2: Welcome, Hello, Thank you.
Speaker 1: It seems like it's been a while.
Speaker 2: It I'm sure it has. It just feel like a while.
Speaker 1: I think so. I'm sorry, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2: You've been This show was a while in the making.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. But so you're you're with Enigma
Labs now too, you've been there for how has it
been two or three years now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's coming on three years. I'll be
with them. I started as a contractor, I was full
time for a while. I'm a contractor again, but yeah,
still working with Enigma Labs.
Speaker 1: And let's why don't you tell the audience what exactly
that is. I have the app on my phone and
I got to tell you have a really good outreach
program because I've been contacted a few times people asking
me if I want to report my sightings and stuff.
So someone knows that I had a sighting. I think
that's pretty interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we do have someone who's keeping an eye
on the Internet and looking for people who talk about sightings,
and then she will say, hey, you know, we've got
this reporting app if you want to report it here
or report at the website. And that's just really what
we're doing. We have this app where you can submit
your report and you can view reports from all over
the world. So we've ingested, you know, the reports from
older organizations, but we've also got our own sightings there.
And right now we're getting more sightings than I think
any organ has gotten before. On a regular basis. We're
getting hundreds a week and it's pretty exciting. So what
I'll do is I do a lot of vetting some
of the best ones that I put up on the
content feed. So when you open up the app, there's
the first icon on the box them left, and if
you click that, you'll just get a stream of some
pretty interesting videos, some of which are really kind of boggling.
And then of course you've got a world map where
you can see all the sightings around the world. We've
got a couple of tools in there for people looking
for UFOs. We have a camera in there. The camera
is really cool because if you use it, you can
see all the telemetry that your phone gives, so, in
other words, in the border, you'll see the angle your
phone is at, your elevation, your location, all of this
kind of metadata that's being captured with videos in the background.
Then when you take a video and you view it
through the app, you'll be able to get a three
D simulation of where you are on a map three D,
just like a Google three D type of map. That's
super helpful. If at night, you know you're doing a
video and you see something on the horizon, you know,
this thing will show you that, oh, maybe that was
a building or a mountain or something like that. When
you click the other tab for the identify tab. What
we've done is we've bined all of those kind of
really important researcher tools. So those tools I tell you
what planets or satellites or even airplanes are in the sky.
We've combined that into one app where you can point
out at the sky and see the satellites and everything
to make sure that you are looking at something unusual.
Because really the idea here is collecting data, getting videos
so we can analyze this so we can really make
some scientific kind of ground in understanding UAP and the
nature of them and being able to prove something come
with receipts to figure out what's going on. So it's
really exciting. It has been an Apple app thus far
limited functionality on the website, but you can submit sightings.
Although on the website we do have a library of
some really great articles about you know, you can get
an education on the history of this topic in the
library on the website. But we are working on Android
and we're pretty focused on that right now. So hopefully
we should have that probably by end of year, and
that'll be exciting because a lot of people are asking
for that.
Speaker 1: Well, you know this this seems I mean, it's pretty obvious.
This is really focuses on applications instead of on your
phone basically, which you always have with you. So it
does make exactly a lot of sense. And you know,
you hear here it is finally I'm having Uh my
computer's been asleep for a week while I've been gone,
and it's acting very weird and.
Speaker 2: Slows for being a staff for a week.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Uh, that's pretty cool website, pretty cool graphics. Yeah, yeah,
you see what.
Speaker 2: The app looks like, how easy it is to put
in easy and fun to put your siding in there.
And then there's the map there so you could see
all of the sightings everywhere, and of course there's a
ton Then you can scroll through like you see here
and see the videos. Uh so it's it's a it's
to me, it's a great tool. I mean we've hit
the ground running where we're constantly listening to customer feedback,
doing a lot of outreach. Our ratings on the Apple
Store are like five star. People love it, so it's
going really really well.
Speaker 1: That's great. Now, does it also have like statistics like
you know, people are reporting you know on triangular object
or cigar shaped object, things like that. Are you can
you actually pull statistics out of it.
Speaker 2: No, you can't pull any statistics yet, although on occasion
we will. We we did a blog post not too
long ago where we had our data scientists do some
of that work. What we found was kind of interesting. Uh.
We did find for US New Mexico was per capital
or per capita. You know, there were a lot more sidings,
which isn't too surprising because the Southwest in general, most
databases find have a lot more sightings than other places
in the United States. As far as shapes go, though,
if you click on the explore button, you're going to
be able to see some stats including shapes like what
you're saying, at least the most commonly reported shapes. And
in that explore area you can get more data about
your state or country in there. Yeah, if you went
to yeah, there you go, so you'll get a little
that'll pop up right here.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So on the left hand side you can see what
countries have the most data. If you clicked on the
United States, you'd have to find it under the U.
Of course, then when you clicked on each state. You'll
get a little bit of stats on every state there, Yeah,
where you tried it out, So try out your state
and it'll tell you what siding. So of course it's
you know, which is actually kind of a good thing.
We're finding what we found it, move on or we
found it different groups. All along is that points of
light are by far the most reported or or luminous
balls of light. And then when it comes to others,
you know you've got next. The'll be like discs or triangles.
If you scroll down, I think you'll be able to
see a little bit of stats there.
Speaker 1: Oh, I see what it is.
Speaker 2: So those are the number of signings in the different states.
And then if you click a state, you'll get a
little more information. And you plan to make this more
robust and increase our search functions. To be honest, the
search functionality has kind of it's been a little bit
more time in the making because we've been really focused
on the functionality and usability of the app.
Speaker 1: I have to ask you something I was I was
kind of like goofing off this last weekend. To be
honest with you, I wasn't really doing paying much attention,
but all of a sudden, I started getting these people
sending me all these UFO videos that were being filmed
I think in California. A couple of them looked really,
really interesting. You were familiar with what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that turned out to be not California. The videos
were from Hawaii and they were from a Pokemdel event.
But along those lines. You know, we're keeping an eye
out on all of the news like that, and I
can't but yeah, so we're keeping on I still, you know,
post news on a regular basis, at least on my
social media, just like I've always done. So we're keeping
an eye on the articles and what's going on out there.
And of course a lot of the news viral UFO
settings are nothing burgers but like that one. But we
do keep an eye out there, and sometimes a lot
of times we will have reports related to some of
these news articles, not this one. For instance, in Denver
we did with the Red Rocks, we had a video
that was submitted at the exact same time about ten
miles away. I'm convinced it's the same thing they saw.
Speaker 1: Well. I did see another one though, that I will
tell you that was very interesting and it was a
grouping of lights, different colored lights.
Speaker 2: I think your microphone cut off. At least I can't
hear you. Oh okay, now I can hear you.
Speaker 1: Oh you hear me?
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So there was a it was a grouping of
lights that was in a formation that was really very
very interesting sighting that I just just saw. I mean, so,
I mean it's not always news. It seems to me
there's a lot of activity on Twitter.
Speaker 2: Well as usual, there's activity all over the place. Yeah,
I mean, and that's exactly why we've got someone out
there letting people know that, Hey, if you see something
submitted to our site, and a lot of people will ask, well,
what the advantage is, you know, if we'll do an
analysis and we don't necessarily do an analysis. In fact,
if you submit a sighting just because we accept it,
and you will get an email that says we accept it,
it means that you know there's no cussing in it.
You know you didn't submit something inappropriate and it's not
a hoax. That's all we're looking out for because we
want to record all that data. I even was reviewing
with the team today, instances in which like California or
other instances in which there are hopes is made that
someone's you know, put some balloons up with blinking lights
inside of them. You know, we want to collect all
of that data because it then gives us we can
look into it, we can help people figure out that
it is a hoax, and then we can figure out,
you know, where that took place and have that historical
data there if it happens again. So you know, there's
a lot of value to the ninety five percent of
the report that are submitted that turn out to be
something mundane, that that data is still important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you and I've had the conversation many times.
There's enough really great stuff out there, very interesting things
out there that are unexplainable, and nothing really has to
be embellished. As long as you can cut away all
the you know, the miscellaneous, there's still a lot of
really interesting things, and you know, I'd rather know, if
you know. I mean a few times that I've gotten
really excited on my own, you know, showing this video
to Mark the Antonio. I didn't think it was a
drone at all, very very windy night, but he thinks
it's a drone, and I have to I have to
agree with him if because he he's so involved in,
you know, trying to figure that type of stuff out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and beyond that, you know, and I've got
an example, a couple of examples of that that we've
already ran across that I want to go over now
that you bring that up. But but yeah, it's better
to report than not, and a lot of people get embarrassed. So,
for example, there have been I did a video recently
on Open Minds about starlink because we've been getting a
lot of reports and that turned out to be starlink.
We've even had a couple of groups of reports that
made some news and I had some quotes in these articles,
and then later doing some more research, I found out
they did happen to be related to link. What is
confusing a lot of people is the the I can
even try to bring those up because they're really fascinating.
They're super fun videos because they're just incredible. Like, for instance,
there's a few videos where we're getting where we're getting,
you know, what looks like a rocket, which rockets typically
look like a bright light with sort of a aura
around them, which is the gas that is usually following
along with it. But all of a sudden, there's this
huge there's this explosion where this circular kind of thing
goes out of it. Actually, yeah, so those turn out
to be well. In particular, this one, I don't think.
I'm probably talking about something different than you're referring to.
But in this case, it's the second stage of the rocket.
The second stage has to orient itself and then it'll
hit its rocket to slow down so it can land safely,
or it doesn't land, it breaks up in the sky,
but any pieces left will land safely in the ocean.
But some people are capturing that moment and the videos
look extraordinary. So that's a case where you know, people
get embarrassed. Or there's another one, this racetrack UFOs. I'm
not sure if you've heard of this one. In fact,
they were in the news recently where a pilot posted
a video of UFOs, and just last week I think
it was it went kind of viral. That's not a UFO,
that's starlink. How do we know this? People like Ben
Hansen have been researching these these types for a very
long time, and he didn't know what they were at first,
but then they found out that it is the satellite trains.
When you're in an aircraft at night and you see them,
they can look like the one object going in a circle,
or a couple objects going in a circle, when they're
actually a whole train of multiple objects passing through an
area that is luminous where you can see them from
a moment from a pilot perspective, it looks really strange.
That's what that video was. But people don't know this.
And when he let pilots know that that's what this was,
a lot of them got kind of upset. Some got
a little embarrassed. You know, you've dealt with this probably
when you put people I think you're citing is this
or that? But what I try to remind people is
that you don't have to be embarrassed because that data
turned out to be super valuable and now we have
examples of this phenomena that people are seeing and we
can tell them what it is. And otherwise we wouldn't
have had that if people reported so, or hadn't had
reported so those reports are really important, even if it
turns out to be something mundane.
Speaker 1: Right, it seems like a lot of things happened to
me in the Hoteb I had my UFO sighting in
a hotub.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also there was the most incredible thing was the fireball.
That was just amazing. That was back in the eighties,
old late eighties. But this a few months ago down
in South Carolina. I was in a hotel again out
back and I saw and that was so cool. And
I did get the train. What's that?
Speaker 2: Did you see a train of them? Or yeah?
Speaker 1: It was I forget I do remember I counted how
many I counted. There was quite a few, all linked
together dot dot you know, evenly spaced apart, and I
do have some pictures and you know, while we're talking
and to see if I can find.
Speaker 2: Yeah, starlink has cast a lot of problems, including those
in particular, because the other phenomena that happens that is
fooling pilots as well is when they're launched. They launched
twenty of them together, so they're in a really tight group,
and a lot of times when people take pictures or videos,
they look like they're one solid luminous tube when they're not.
That was another one. We got one from Montana that
we got into the news and it made some news.
And then again I found out that that was likely
starlink and pilots have taken these. There was a paper
written by one of the new board of directors with
the SEU, doctor Doug Bittner, where him and Richard Griffiths
some others you might remember this. So essentially SEU had
a guy at the conference who wrote a paper on
this luminous object that pilot saw what turned out, you know,
once he got it put some of the information out.
During the SEU conference, people were like, no, that's starlink,
that's a train of starlink. So they re examined it.
Doctor Bittner and others, including the original scientists, put out
a new paper showing you're right, you know that this
luminous what looked to seem like one solid, large luminous tube,
was actually a train of starlink satellite. So that's another
thing that's happening. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I can't seem to find that picture right now. I
did post it on my Facebook page, so it's it's available.
I just can't find it. But there's there's I remember,
you know, having conversations with you ten years ago when
we'd be saying, oh, it's gonna get worse and worse,
you know, with the drones and the Chinese lanterns and
you know, and and it's true, and I mean there's
just so much that looks so unusual. And yeah, those
the stage, the second stage, like you're talking about, in
the failed launches, those are caused such amazing bright lights
and you know, it looks so mysterious in the sky.
You know, there was that famous one in Norway, I
think it was there somewhere. Yeah, that was just yeah,
just amazing.
Speaker 2: And uh in two thousand and eight, right, this huge
spiral in the sky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so and that I do believe that one was
a failed launch, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because essentially what happens is it's going up that
fails and it had something spewing out of the side
which made it spin, and then that gas that spuke
created this huge spiral, that luminess at the right time
of the day. And that's essentially what's happening with Starlink.
And what's interesting is, you know, I went out to
Huntington just a few weeks ago with Van Hansen again
and well we were out there separately, but we met
up with him in time to get to the beach
near him so we could watch a Starlink launch and
all you could see is a little bit of exhaust
from the rocket as it went up. It was fun,
it was exciting. I was happy, but it was too
early to get that huge jellyfish UFO kind of effect
that a lot of people get right after dusk. Is
when you know, it's just this isn't nature phenomena. It's
just like contrails. You have to have the right things
in the right place for this phenomena to manifest. And
especially these rocket ones are really exciting now that we
have rockets flying on a regular basis, sometimes daily.
Speaker 1: I know, it's amazing all what Musk is doing. For one,
you know, I mean that that whole company has been
going crazy with launches, and something like.
Speaker 2: Twenty eighteen, we had somewhere around two thousand satellites in orbit.
Now SpaceX alone has six thousand, over six thousand in orbit,
just to show the difference.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I had heard that. I can't remember what
the number is, but I heard within I think within
five years, I expect a bunch more than that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, is that right? They're maxing out? I think I
don't know that they've totally shared their ultimate goals, but
I think they want to max out around eight thousand
or something. They're getting pretty close, but still, you know,
because that those will begin to deteriorate and then they'll
need to replace those over time. But it's it's interesting,
it's and you know, a lot of people get frustrated.
But at the same time, the ability for some you know,
rural farmer to have high speed internet all of a
sudden is extraordinary. That you can get great internet anywhere
in the world. It's a it's a give and take.
Speaker 1: Right right, here's a question for you. Here, Christian's Christopher.
I'm sorry, I'm having a there. It almost worked.
Speaker 2: It worked for a second. I wasn't quick enough to
read the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, here we go. There. It is wondering if
there's a thought to be what there's a thought.
Speaker 2: To a Monday and explanation for a UAP. I and
others have seen a dark or reflective disc or triangle
at night, hard edges no lights. I know, that sounds
like a really great one. That would definitely be odd.
Of course, there are drones or maybe dirigibles that could
fly around with their lights off. Both are extremely well.
The latter, especially as a extremely uncommon because that would
be very unsafe, So that wouldn't be likely. The difficulty,
which is comes back to something our good buddy Leece
Biegel used to always talk about, is wouldn't it be
easy if these UAP didn't want to be seen just
to fly around with their lights off, because, for instance,
try to get a picture of that, you're not how
are you going to get any evidence that you you know,
you're you're experiencing this large dark object over your house
at night. That's going to be really really difficult unless
somehow you could shine a spotlight at it. So yeah, yeah,
that's that would be a great one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And someone just said they've heard numerous reports are
the same too. I've never heard of anything exactly like that,
you know, with that, I've.
Speaker 2: Heard a couple of reports. I've heard reports like that
for sure, But you know, it's one of those tough
ones because what can you do with it?
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? Yep? So what is the what would you
say is the most you said points of light in
the sky is the most common, And what would you
say follows after that? Is it? Is it mostly nighttime sightings?
Is that is that?
Speaker 2: Why? Uh, there's definitely mostly nighttime sightings. Yes, uh, and
of course that's what something that can get well, two
things I would say, and I'd love you know your
input as well, because you talk to so many people.
But it's one because it's the night, A light at night,
very easy to misidentify lights in the night sky. However,
at the same time, at least for me, one of
the most intriguing and most common reports I get, even
in our app are anecdotally, is that people are watching
what they think is a satellite and then it's zigzags,
or it turns and it makes it goes the other
direction or something like that. Those are really exciting. We
actually have that doctor Bitner that I referenced earlier, who's
an astronomical PhD and astronomical engineering. I think that's what
it is. I may have it wrong, but it's astro
something engineering. But he does a lot of work with
defense and otherwise. He is actually looking at one of
our cases in which it's kind of similar. It's one
light in the sky that normally, if it was moving
straight and consistently in one direction, you would just say, oh,
that's just a satellite, But this thing changes directions very quickly,
stops want a couple times. One time, for three minutes,
it just sits there in the sky and it looks
exactly like a star any of the other stars in
the night sky. Then it moves again quite a distance,
turns around, and then goes out of screen. That one's
getting a lot of people really excited, because it's hard
to understand what that might be. So while a lot
of these single light phenomena are misidentifications, and it's super
easy to misidentify just a single light in the sky,
there's also some really good cases out there that are
just a single light as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know if I told you the Sola hundred,
but this last year, I went on a music cruise
like I've done the last few years.
Speaker 2: And I think he did.
Speaker 1: Actually, Yeah, while I was in the I was getting
coffee and I looked over, and I have his picture somewhere,
but I look over and I recognize the guy from
the band the Zombies, nineteen sixties band, great band from
the sixties, wat of songs at time of the season,
stuff like that. So we started talking. It was a
really fun talk, and he was a really interesting guy
and all this, and and then he kind of asked
me what I did, and I said, while I do,
you know antiques and fine art im and appraiser and
all that stuff. And then I said, well then I
also do this really kind of unusual thing. I says,
I do a show on UFOs. And he goes, oh
my god. We were meant to meet each other. So
the night before, on the ship way out at sea,
he was out on they have an upper deck the
bands can you know, have special suites up there, and
so he's out on the deck alone basically, and he said,
just like you're talking about, he said, he said, if
there's first he thought he saw a star, but it
was moving, and then all of a sudden it stopped
and then it went one way like that, and it
zigzagged a couple more times back and forth, and then
it shot off. And he says, it's been dying to
talk to someone about it. So he talked to everyone
in the band about it. But and he was going
to be on the show, but the the band there
was someone has a health problem. So they're they're not
that exciting, yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, because Aero had even admitted that there were
metallic orbs that they were witnessing that they don't know
what they are a huge, huge tell. I think that
everybody has forgotten or ignored because everybody's head. I don't
know what people are thinking in this field anymore, but
everybody just isn't paying attention. I guess they're just chasing
their tails. But my point being that, you know, I
think that at the very least is something that we've
seen over time that there are potentially, I think a
most likely scenario that even you know, Kirkpatrick and abviy
Low wrote that paper that kind of talked about this too,
the idea that perhaps there are probes or something coming,
you know, at a distance. And if that's the phenomena
that you know, that's extremely interesting and I'm so excited
like this citing that we've talked about that doctor Bitner
is looking at and others are examining, because that's what's
really exciting about this point in time is that we've
you know, you and I have heard stories after story
after story. You can hear stories all day long, but
they don't get you very far. You know, it's time too,
and we have the ability to use technology to gather data,
to analyze to that data, and finally prove lay a
baseline for what is going on in this phenomena and
hopefully our potentially proving that there's something you know, extraordinary
going on, and that would be incredible and I'm really
excited about that and the possibility of that. And I
think at efforts like what we're doing with Enigma, what
Galileo is doing or wants to do, and others with
deploying systems, if NASA could get on the ball and
do some of the things that that NASA panels suggested
along with the FAA, gathering some data from pilots. Pilots
are out there on their own. They really have no
place to report. They can report to the control tower,
but they have no direction given to them on how
to report something. And that's pretty tragic. You know, that's
good data, that is good in getting lost. But you know,
at least people are listening, and that there's a I think,
a road to being able to gather data and make
some really on the books, hard discoveries that even you know,
mainstream science can can wrap their head around and we
can move off of. And I think that that's really
really important. So but I do think, and I would
tell your audience have patience, and you know when you
when those when you're trolling government agencies, what you're doing
so much irreparable damage. I think NASA essentially said, we
would like to do something, but people are just too mean.
There's too many jerks out there, and nobody wants to
work in this field. And anecdotally I hear that in
the background when it comes to science and mainstream But
NASA essentially said that in their panel. That's what they
started with, that they were highly concerned with all of
the negativity that their panel members were just ambushed with
online and now.
Speaker 1: What is it that they are They're just thinking, oh,
you really have you know the information? You're just hiding it?
Is that how it all starts?
Speaker 2: Or yeah, you know is what we all get it?
You even get it. I think to some degree, it's
just you know, you don't believe what I believe, so
you're evil and you suck.
Speaker 1: So every single part I blame it on social media
and media and whatever because.
Speaker 2: It's agree I agree with youty.
Speaker 1: You know, it's political. It's especially political, I should say,
but it's it's politics.
Speaker 2: It's bad, but it's bad in our field too, and
that's unfortunate. It's one of the worst areas where it
really just drives people away. Uh and it makes it
you know. Even doctor Bittner has been like, wow, I've
tried to dip my toes in social media to work
and you know, be open and communicate with a community.
But people don't want that. They just want to hate
on everything. So I think it's especially X but they're
all kind of like.
Speaker 1: That that's really that's that's really too bad. Yeah, there's
a lot of uh, I don't even know what you
call it, disconnect or whatever, a lot of in the
UFO world. And yeah, I mean I don't know why
people have to take sides, you know. I mean it's
it's kind of kind of funny. And if you don't,
if you don't think like we do, then like you
say you're bad, I'm bad or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when people get frustrated, I try to tell them
because I'm so pro NASA getting involved and I'm so
pro what NASA in a NASA panel has discussed. I
think it's a huge step in the right direction. I mean,
there's they laid down the gauntlet. They said this is
something worth doing and we need to do it for
science and for air safety. And I agree with that
one thousand percent. And so we need to encourage them
and you know, get that work started. And I think
that really needs to happen. For those people who are like,
well I already know what it is, I'm like, well,
that's great, because then you especially should be encouraging this
type of work, because either I or NASA or these
other people that want to do this, we want to,
you know, prove what's going on. And if you're right,
we're going to prove you right. So everybody should be
you know, gung ho for this sort of work.
Speaker 1: Now, when they first said they were they were only
appropriating a small amount of money, do you know, has
anything changed with that? Now they were appropriating like one
hundred thousand dollars or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, NASA, is that what you mean? Yes, Yeah, NASA
just put money aside for that panel, the UFO study group,
the team they put together which to write their report
to advise NASA on the next steps. They've written their report.
It's now out and essentially I kind of summarized it
there in a nutshell, and and that's it. NASA has
not moved on it since so of course they're embroiled
in their own kind of incident right now with Boeing
and the s But I'm really hopeful that they'll move forward,
and people that were on that panel are still positive
and want to move forward. Many of them and many
congress people are liked what they had to say and
would like to move forward on. That probably makes it
difficult that this is an election year, but hopefully we
get some activity moving forward. The Arrow interim director was
the NASA liaison with aer Row, but not much has
happened on that front during this period of time. Hopefully
when someone new comes on, they'll tackle this. But like
I said, I who wants to take on who wants
to sit in that hot seat where you're just going
to be completely defamed by large swat people in the
public just by saying, hey, I want to look into this,
just by taking on that role and I you know,
this kind of gives people, hopefully an idea of why
why it is difficult.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I had a guest on recently. I can't remember
who it was, but they were really excited about NASA
getting involved, you know, they thought it was like that
was more monumental than anything else that has happened in
the last several years. According to I'm sure you know,
people that listen to every show may remember who it
was by.
Speaker 2: An easy entry for NASA getting involved is so like
I talked about, pilots have no recourse for reporting UAP.
I just did a well, I just was at the
largest for the second year in a row, the largest
air show in the country, Oshcosh, where I did a
talk where I went over that topic in the details.
I'm going to have a blog out soon on the
Enigma site and I'll probably do a video for Open
Minds on this with more detail as well. But there
isn't a place the FAA. When they came to that
NASA panel, it was a guy who worked on the
control tower and they asked him, well, what is the route?
What is a pilot supposed to do to report? And
he essentially said, I don't know. He says, I know
control tower will take a report and all submitted to
a database, but doesn't seem like it's a database anybody's
looking at. But he does say that's about it that
we and they get four or five. But this guy
was like, well, I want to know, and it was
I forget his first name, Mike, I think Gold, an
attorney space attorney who also worked for Bigelow for a
period of time that was on the panel. He said,
but what does a single pilot do, just you know,
a civilian pilot. He's like, I don't know. Well I
do know because I've looked it up and there's a couple.
If you go to the FA website, it tells you
either to submit to Newfork, who of course is not
a government agency, a very low funded you know, somebody's
just going to take the report and put it on
put it out there for people to see. But that's
about it. The other they said is if you felt
that there was your safety was endangered at all, tell
local law enforcement, which is pretty ridiculous because law enforcement
has nothing to do with their safety. What are they
going to do at that point. They don't have a
reporting system either, so none of that data is going
to go where it needs to go. If you go
to the aero website, they say civilian pilot should submit
to the piers system. Reporting system sounds great. You go
look up that reporting system. It's a weather reporting system,
has nothing to do with UAP. There's nothing in there
for UAP. And I can tell you from talking to
a bunch of pilots over the last few years, because
I'm so curious about this topic. And in Oshkosh, nobody
reports there or knows about that. But despite FAA not
having any rules on where to report, pilots are reporting,
and they're reporting to two places. One of them is, well,
let me go over the drone one first. So there's
a guy, Ralph Howard who's part of that Scientific Coalition
for uap cety. He felt, you know what, I'll bet
you a lot of people are reporting uap IS drones.
So he wrote a paper. The paper was accepted to
the AIAA where he reviewed what was submitted to the
drone submitting system, because pilots can, for safety reason, say hey,
we had a drone that we ran across. Here's the
stats about it. Well, drones aren't supposed to fly over
four hundred feet. He found something like two thousand cases
where drones were seen over four hundred and in fact,
he said he found something like another hundreds of cases
where the drone was much much higher than that. That's
a capability that is really difficult and not a commercial
or civilian drone. Also, many of them, the shapes were
described as orbs or things that weren't drones. So he
concluded that certainly, you know people are reporting UAPs in
the drone system. We also know, and I know the
debrief is written an article on this, that pilots are
also reporting to the ASRS, the Air Safety Reporting System,
which is a system they're encouraged to report on. They
can be anonymous if they want. This is for air
safety issues. So if you go to the website for it,
you'll see a lot of information on HASMAT. So it's like,
you know, if you work for a company that's transporting
hazardous material and they're not supposed to be, you can
report them here. But any air safety things you can
report there. And there are some files because those files
are publicly available, that people are reporting UAP there. So
NASA even suggested this. NASA panel said, we already have
this ASRS system that we do in conjunction with the FAA.
We just need to tell pilots this is where you
report UAP and then have someone on the NASA side
that is pulling those reports and analyzing them. That's the
easy way for NASA to get involved, and I hope
that's what happens.
Speaker 1: Wasn't Ryan Graves trying to initiate something.
Speaker 2: Realatory has been trying to initiate programs or do something.
I'm not quite sure what is current idea. Is it
maybe the ASRS. The ASRS is certainly others are mentioning it,
and it's gotten a lot of steam. I think it's
the best place because it's already institute it. It's already
up and running. We can start rolling immediately. There are
some groups out there like Ben Hansen or are already
going into that system to look for cases to analyze
and scrutinize.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, well it's funny someone just posted the
same thing. I just said, let's let's change gears a
little bit because you told me that you are starting
a nonprofit to do with UAP discovery or is that
what it is.
Speaker 2: Correct, UAP discovery dot org. So it's brand new. I
just started this nonprofit. And here's the website. The website's
pretty much done. I'm pretty proud of it, especially if
you go up to up in the upper right hand
corner to UAP resources yep uh, and if you click that,
because I've got all of the NASA data that I've
talked about, transcripts, videos of the NASA panel, and everything
that the NASA panel put out. I have government documents,
meaning FBI, CIA, NSA, d IA. I've got links to
all of the you know, reporting UFO reporting areas. I've
got research papers in there up there, so dozens of
research papers, science research papers that are on UAP, all
in one place, and I update that on a regular basis.
And I've all got all the congressional hearings so you
can see all the videos, see all the supplementary data
that came with them. So you've got really a big
database here of all of the kind of mainstream science
effort to examine this topic. What you're looking right, they're
the Journal of Astronomical Instrumentation. That's an exciting one because
those are all the Galileo papers from last year. So
Galileo produced something like ten papers and those are all
right there. Yeah. For example, this one, this is, you know,
a paper on building ground observatories, something that Galileo is
working on a lot of really really good data.
Speaker 1: Awesome.
Speaker 2: Oh, but what is the website about. The website's primarily
about gathering data and analyzing it, not that we necessarily
participate in the data gathering. Uh, it's more of networking
and getting everybody together. So for example, where do we
get the data? That's one of the big areas. You know,
there are places to get data. What I really want
to do though, is beyond you know, using Enigma, is
also get people deploying their own instrumentation suites because there
are affordable options for that. So helping to get that
shif wearing data from like Enigma with scientists and with
researchers so they can go over that data and just
like this one I've done with the Signal Mountain is
to hopefully turn those into research papers where scientists can
start to see that there's something to this phenomena and
maybe even make discoveries, novel scientific discoveries, you know, maybe
something even extraordinary around those. So this is like the
different area of places you can report UAPs. I've got
more than just Enigma there. But but yeah, that's essentially
what it's for us to bring people together for that.
The other part of this is you'll see there I
do have support for professional organizations such as educators, aviators,
and law enforcement. And why am I focusing on those
just because when we're getting data, we want to be
able to get data from the best places. Pilot and
law enforcement are first of all, Pilots see a lot
of stuff. Law enforcement is where people go to report stuff.
So we need to help law enforcement gather that data
network law enforcement together. I work with and have created
you know, helped create the UAPPD which was just on
Coast to coast Sunday night. And you've had Mary Ann
and Davon I. Yeah, but yeah, So there are a
couple of police officers that have started up a site
to do this kind of thing, and I work with them,
work with aviators, work with Ben. I've talked with Ryan.
But it's essentially to get aviators to let them know,
you know, like, hey, you need a resource, here's Ryan
Graves place you need data, here's you needed to report something,
and to let them know, Hey, pilots, by the way,
if you saw this racetrack UFO phenomenon, that's actually not
an anomalous thing. That's star you know, so we can
start to inform it and get people together to focus
strictly on that data gathering and analysis and you know,
in a positive cooperative way and spirit working together with
anybody who wants to do this sort of work and
gather that. I want to kind of do essentially what
NASA should be doing, but give them a model and
get this work rolling.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the students. What's that exactly?
Speaker 2: Students? Yeah, And that's another big portion is that I
really want to First of all, you probably get this.
I get this. Occasionally students want to write a paper
and they need information. So I've got all this information
that I just talked about that students can get. But
I also created a forum where all of us can
talk and students can go in there and I can
connect them with research. More than that, I want EDGE
to help educators because there are some educators out there
that are building curriculum around this topic. So they need
data and support. So I want to support them. And ultimately,
what I would love to do is have some student
organizations that are data collecting, student organizations that are building
software and hardware to collect data on UAP, you know,
maybe putting this on the roof of the school and
then submitting what they find, getting them connected with researchers
whenever they get some interesting data that can be analyzed.
I think we need to institutionalize this stuff. You know,
think of if most high schools had a UAP hunting
group where they've got cameras and systems on the roof
of the high school. They're going to be capturing cool stuff.
These kids are going to be learning software, They're going
to be learning all of the different sciences, because when
we're talking about sensor systems, we're not talking about just cameras.
We're also talking about gathering weather data, magnetic data, gravity
in some cases when possible, other types of radiation that
that could possibly be read. We can build readers. Where
we're talking about gathering a lot of different types of
data and building different types of sensors. So there's a
lot of different science that these kids could be learning
while they do this. So I really want to I
think it's you know, people love this topic, so why
not use that that interest to get kids into science
and at the same time hopefully find getting some data
where we can you know, break this case wide open.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of funny. You
and I have talked had talks over the years, and
a lot of times the talks are like, well, well
we ever know, you know, what's really going on. I'm
starting to think as a time moves on that I
don't know if it will happen in a lifetime, in
my lifetime, I just don't know. I don't I.
Speaker 2: Get many reasons for it, but I think this is
how you do it. I think talking and talking and
talking and not providing any evidence is not going to
do it, because we've been doing that for decades now.
This is how we do it. And I agree with you,
but I'm more optimistic these days, just because there's more
scientists involved, and like everybody was talking about, we got
not NASA talking about this now. So I think I
want to capitalize on that if possible, before this goes
away and they just you know, poo poo the whole
thing again. I want to try to capitalize on that.
And that's what UAP Discovery is all about. It's an
actual five oh one C three. I've got it registered
in Arizona and so yeah, I mean it's going to
be it's a slow start kind of thing. I'm so
focused on Enigma stuff and everything else, but you know,
I'm really excited about about the future.
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, I'm glad to see that you're you're one
of the only people. I think you may be the
only person I know that really has a job in UFOs.
And I remember saying that all the way back when
you were with Open Minds years ago.
Speaker 2: But I know I've recently updated my bio and I
have worked. I don't know many people, if any, that
have worked one year full time in UFOs. I've worked
over ten years, paid by a third party, full time
to write and research about UFOs, So that is pretty rare.
I'm yeah, I was gonna say lucky. I'm not sure
if I'm lucky, but it's interesting. It's been interesting, like
the starving artists, you know. I know it certainly derailed
my corporate career.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, but it's been it's been a
lot of fun. You know, all these years you and
I did how many years do you think we did
our shows back and forth? It had to be at
least three years, right, Yeah, at least.
Speaker 2: Time fly So it's hard to say, but you're right,
it was several years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a lot of fun. And then like
I'd be like working in appraisal or something and oh
my god, I got UFO news to do in ten minutes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, well, which is funny because during that time
I was also doing real estate at times or other things, right,
same kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, I know. Make it work,
this compulsion that just doesn't let us go.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, you always seem to come back to it. Well,
thanks so much. It's been really a lot of fun
as usual, chatting with you as always, And my best
to all the good people out there that I think
that I know and talk to, and and good luck
with the with the new nonprofit. We'll see you know
what happens. I hope people get interested in it and
its information arrives, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, come and check out the site, use the resources
I think you know, if you want anything government or
why is it's hard to go search for the congressional
hearings to watch them in something very to my website
and get it use that tool that I provided, and
then also download the app, another free tool. All of
this is free, steph. Anybody can use that's interested in
this topic.
Speaker 1: Yep, excellent, Okay, Alejandra, you take care and I'll talk soon.
Speaker 2: Thanks.
Speaker 1: Take it easy, yeah bye, No, all right, everyone, So
we'll be back next week with Earl Gray. The week
after that, we'll be blue Elizondo, so thank you all
very much and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.