Speaker 1: You know, I've got a new goal in twenty twenty five,
Speaker 1: and that's just to say yes to more things and
Speaker 1: just find joy in things that bring joy to others.
Speaker 1: So I don't care anymore that you guys like Pitbull
Speaker 1: and I don't. I'm just going to embrace the bit
Speaker 1: and welcome in. Zach Harper on a Wednesday afternoon. I'm
Speaker 1: over a man. You win, I give up.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing is with that song, you have no
Speaker 2: choice but to give up because that is a bank.
Speaker 2: That's an all time bank.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, Like I said, if it brings you joy,
Speaker 1: it brings me joy.
Speaker 3: Zach.
Speaker 1: That's my new goal for twenty twenty five. Where do
Speaker 1: we find you today? It sounds like you might be
Speaker 1: on a sailboat somewhere.
Speaker 2: Oh god, I'm in Los Angeles trying to find a
Speaker 2: parking spot anywhere in the city, and you, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: what everyone wants to hear, LA traffic. But yeah, it's terrible. Look.
Speaker 1: I never knew how real it was until I spent
Speaker 1: a year working there, and I'm like, screw this. I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's it's enough to make me not ever want to
Speaker 1: live there. And then you land and it's seventy five
Speaker 1: degrees and like, maybe I'll deal with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's it's kind of over cast a
Speaker 2: little bit. It's seventy six. You know, we're in the
Speaker 2: middle of February, late February. I guess I don't know
Speaker 2: what the cutoff is there, and so there are worse
Speaker 2: places to be. But if you, like I made the
Speaker 2: mistake of going out at one thirty, that's on me.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: Philosophical question for you, Zach, right off the top, Are
Speaker 1: you ready? Yeah, So at some point the asteroid's gonna
Speaker 1: hit and we're cooked. Okay, it's it's it's just going
Speaker 1: to happen. And you have talked about it before. And
Speaker 1: ultimately what we've learned now, according to scientists that are
Speaker 1: smarter than you were, you and I, the asteroid y
Speaker 1: are four has risen to a record level to hit
Speaker 1: the Earth in twenty thirty two.
Speaker 3: Here is my question to you, Do you want to
Speaker 3: know when it's coming?
Speaker 1: If you had the opportunity, if whoever's in charge, whoever
Speaker 1: is really behind the Wizard of Oz controls, whoever's in
Speaker 1: charge of this whole thing, hit you up? Was like, Zach,
Speaker 1: I can tell you the day this is happening if
Speaker 1: you'd like to know and nobody else will know, or
Speaker 1: you just blissfully live your life until you don't anymore.
Speaker 3: Which avenue would you take?
Speaker 2: That's a great question because like, at this point, do
Speaker 2: I have knowledge that this might happen in twenty thirty two?
Speaker 2: You do not. It's gonna happen in all right, it's
Speaker 2: just gonna it's gonna happen in your lifetime, but you
Speaker 2: don't know when, correct, Yes, man, I think I kind
Speaker 2: of gotta know. I'd like to think I'm a bigger person, Like, no,
Speaker 2: just live my life and every day is the best there,
Speaker 2: I think I gotta know.
Speaker 1: See I this is you know for listeners, it's a
Speaker 1: peak beyond a curtain.
Speaker 3: I'm a Weirdoh.
Speaker 1: I sat up and thought about this for like thirty
Speaker 1: minutes last night when I read the article, I'm like,
Speaker 1: would I want to know? Or would I just rather
Speaker 1: live my life until I wouldn't know? And the thought Zach,
Speaker 1: of what you could accomplish, like the last day revenge
Speaker 1: wise on people who have wronged you over the years,
Speaker 1: is enough to be like, I gotta know, man, because
Speaker 1: the last day before the world ends. Can you imagine
Speaker 1: how many boxes you could check on your list?
Speaker 2: I would be an absolute menace. Oh yes, like't use
Speaker 2: this for like, oh I'm gonna like you know, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna make all the wrongs right and everything. No, this
Speaker 2: would be like revenge week leading up and be like, wow,
Speaker 2: you're really like kind of crashing out here, which I
Speaker 2: think is a you know, turn. Kids are still saying
Speaker 2: like you're kind of crashing out here, And I said,
Speaker 2: just you wait, I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 3: Yep, Now I'm one percent with you.
Speaker 1: That I was debating and then when I realized what
Speaker 1: I could do the final day before the world ended,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm I'm on board.
Speaker 3: I want to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, real quick, let me let me ask
Speaker 2: that you know what, like what I would feel like
Speaker 2: I would feel like Magic Johnson when he had quit
Speaker 2: and only the media knew, like the Lakers didn't know,
Speaker 2: like what an incredible feeling where when he has this
Speaker 2: whole thing of like they're talking about, you know, free
Speaker 2: agents in the summer and I'm just thinking I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna be here, like people will be like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: we're going to like santrape next summer and everything, and
Speaker 2: I just think, like, you're not. Yep, i'd promise you're not.
Speaker 3: Keep keep keep up with those plans. Hopefully it makes
Speaker 3: you happy.
Speaker 1: I thought you'd be a good one ask that question,
Speaker 1: and maybe we'll get back to it at some point.
Speaker 3: But here's, uh, here's where I'll pivot.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: How much of the All Star weekend did you consume?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if you went, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you were watching. How much of it did
Speaker 1: you consume?
Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't. I didn't watch the Celebrity game
Speaker 2: because I don't hate myself. And then I watched the
Speaker 2: second half of the Rising Stars games because I kind
Speaker 2: of forgot they were on. So like I caught like
Speaker 2: the second half of the second game, and then the
Speaker 2: entirety of the of the Championship game or whatever I
Speaker 2: guess it's called. Watched all of Saturday night, watched all
Speaker 2: of Sunday. You know, it was fine, which I guess
Speaker 2: is an upgrade over last year. But like it was
Speaker 2: just it was fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I guess it was fine if you enjoy
Speaker 1: the weekend. And so ultimately, because you and I are
Speaker 1: members of the media to cover the NBA, we are
Speaker 1: obligated to do the topic how do we fix this
Speaker 1: thing right? And when when anybody asks me, what's your
Speaker 1: preferred format, I say, well, it's the all star game
Speaker 1: comprised of players who care about playing.
Speaker 3: That's my preferred format.
Speaker 1: What we saw for like thirty or forty years that,
Speaker 1: for the most part, was very awesome. Now I'm not
Speaker 1: a revisionist historian. Not every game was greats up and
Speaker 1: down the entire time when I was growing up watching
Speaker 1: in the nineties, but more often than not, it was
Speaker 1: the greatest pickup game in the world because the greatest
Speaker 1: players in the world showed up and more often than
Speaker 1: not tried to play. So my preferred format is the
Speaker 1: all star game, comprised of two teams with the best
Speaker 1: players in the world they care about playing. But I think, Zach,
Speaker 1: I'm resigned to the fact now there's no format that
Speaker 1: will motivate these guys to care.
Speaker 3: So I don't really know what you do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's just there's you know, they make
Speaker 2: so much money. And I'm not using that as a complaint.
Speaker 2: I'm just like, that's a that's just a fact of life, right,
Speaker 2: Like you get to a certain point, and these things
Speaker 2: regardless of like your job or whatever like thing, there's
Speaker 2: certain things that just become less and less meaningful. And
Speaker 2: I've heard some players, you know, try to explain the
Speaker 2: reason the competitiveness isn't there, and you know it's some
Speaker 2: validorie like oh, you're supposed to be about making sure
Speaker 2: you're okay for the second half the season and so
Speaker 2: if I get injured there you know, blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, like I get all that, and you know
Speaker 2: there we had something Joe Varden published something for us today,
Speaker 2: I think it was today, either today or yesterday, able
Speaker 2: a player poll from people who participating in All Star Weekend.
Speaker 2: I think Darius Garland. I don't know if it was
Speaker 2: tongue in cheek, but like his suggestion for making players
Speaker 2: care was like a million dollars per player, like if
Speaker 2: I guess, I guess if you win, or maybe if
Speaker 2: you play. I don't know what it was, but like
Speaker 2: it just said a million dollars per player would get it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know, man, like you kind of
Speaker 2: already make a lot of money and that seems like
Speaker 2: a gross way of doing it. But if that's what
Speaker 2: it takes and it's worth it, and the league has it, sure,
Speaker 2: I guess, like I ultimately it's on the players. You know,
Speaker 2: Draymond's complaining and whining the other night, And I'm not
Speaker 2: anti Draymond, but I'm anti Draymond when he when he
Speaker 2: tries to like pretend he's inventing an idea and it's
Speaker 2: just stuff that's been thrown around. Like I get it,
Speaker 2: like Rising Stars on Sunday is not hallowed sacred ground. Well,
Speaker 2: you guys shouldn't have messed around for the last eight
Speaker 2: years with All Star Games, and then maybe you wouldn't
Speaker 2: be in this position. And ultimately, like I think it's
Speaker 2: gonna be on the players. I think maybe someone like
Speaker 2: like Wemby seemed to take it pretty seriously and not
Speaker 2: one guy can change it. But I've heard stories in
Speaker 2: the past from guys like Dwyane Wade who are like, yeah,
Speaker 2: Kobe set the tone for a lot of those All
Speaker 2: Star Games, and I think that like it matters. It
Speaker 2: matters when the good players decide to care and decide
Speaker 2: to set the tone. In almost shame. I'm into shaming.
Speaker 2: I'm into bullying. I don't know how you bully someone
Speaker 2: who makes two hundred million dollars, but there are ways
Speaker 2: to shame them into it, and I guess throwing rising
Speaker 2: stars into the mix on a Sunday, like, yeah, you
Speaker 2: don't want that, then you better bring it next year.
Speaker 3: Yeah do you? Well said?
Speaker 1: I mean, it is on any player who's complaining about, hey,
Speaker 1: the sanctity of being able to earn your way to
Speaker 1: play on Sunday, Well, yeah, you guys had the chance
Speaker 1: and you didn't deliver the performance. And look, ultimately, I
Speaker 1: understand that when I complain about what I perceive to
Speaker 1: be a problem for the league, they always just talk
Speaker 1: about the amount of eyes and attention and the international
Speaker 1: revenue streams that they generate will completely offset any compromised
Speaker 1: domestic revenue streams due to lack of interest. And I
Speaker 1: get it, I understand, but ultimately it really is I
Speaker 1: think something you take away from basketball fans and something
Speaker 1: that you have kind of tried to put on that's
Speaker 1: only harming the consumer of somebody that tries to watch
Speaker 1: this thing that once upon a time was really good.
Speaker 1: Now we're probably never going back to what it was
Speaker 1: once upon a time. Maybe it is just one of
Speaker 1: those things that generationally has changed and now it's just
Speaker 1: time to accept it for what it is now. Yiannis
Speaker 1: came out with a whole like European or international players
Speaker 1: versus domestic players. We've done that before. But there was
Speaker 1: also a mention of maybe playing this game overseas. But
Speaker 1: I land on the same issue, like I don't care
Speaker 1: where you play it, whether it's Salt Lake two years ago,
Speaker 1: the Bay Area this year, or Paris in two years.
Speaker 1: I just don't know that any sort of format or
Speaker 1: any sort of matchup is going to make the majority
Speaker 1: of these guys show up and play hard.
Speaker 3: It just don't. I don't know that exists, man, I
Speaker 3: really don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean remember like the first year of the
Speaker 2: elam ending where you had to hit a certain marker
Speaker 2: after the fourth quarter, Like that was a great all
Speaker 2: Star game and everyone was like it got fixed, they
Speaker 2: figured it out, and then like a year later, maybe
Speaker 2: two years later, it sucked again, right like it like
Speaker 2: I just the toothpastes out of the tube and I
Speaker 2: don't know how you get it back in there. And
Speaker 2: I think it's like you can make all these tweaks,
Speaker 2: you can make all these changes. I think USA versus
Speaker 2: the World would be great for a year or two,
Speaker 2: and then it would kind of go back to, Yeah,
Speaker 2: my hamstrings a little little tight. I'm not going all out.
Speaker 2: I'm not rotating over you know, I'm like, I'm not
Speaker 2: jeopardizing this and jeopardizing that. Like I I it's just
Speaker 2: a culture thing. It's a culture thing. And the culture
Speaker 2: in the NBA when it comes to this stuff is
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna try. I'm gonna give my you know,
Speaker 2: my my best effort for the things that matter the most,
Speaker 2: and an exhibition game just doesn't matter as much as
Speaker 2: it's supposed to be a celebration. I mean, man, we
Speaker 2: went from from years of all the league is in
Speaker 2: good hands, the league's in good hands after every All
Speaker 2: Star game to now this conversation every year and it's
Speaker 2: and it sucks, like it's it's annoying, but that's what like,
Speaker 2: that's just what it is. And I don't know, I
Speaker 2: don't I don't think there's a way to outright fix it.
Speaker 2: You can tweak it and improve here and there, but
Speaker 2: you know, it's human nature, like regression is going to happen.
Speaker 3: Okay, excuse me.
Speaker 1: So the Lebron portion of this and I'm not a
Speaker 1: Lebron hater at all. I mean, if anything, I've always
Speaker 1: been a guy that's like, I'm stunned that this dude
Speaker 1: lived up to everything that we placed on him when
Speaker 1: he was seventeen years old, and then some I mean,
Speaker 1: I I am in awe of this career and always
Speaker 1: will be. And that's there's a period at the end
Speaker 1: of that sentence. No matter what, but to show up
Speaker 1: and not really tell anybody that you're not going to
Speaker 1: play initially, and then as the players are being introduced
Speaker 1: and you're the last guy they introduced, it's just this grand,
Speaker 1: self absorbed approach and you're in street clothes and everyone's like,
Speaker 1: wait what, because look, man, the fact of the matter is.
Speaker 1: And I've never been like even back in the day
Speaker 1: when players played hard in the All Star Game and
Speaker 1: they cared about the acknowledgment. I was never a fan
Speaker 1: of putting clauses in contracts that activate bonuses if you
Speaker 1: make the team. And I'm not a huge fan of
Speaker 1: clauses in player contracts that activate bonuses if you win
Speaker 1: postseason awards, because the process at times can be so arbitrary.
Speaker 1: But Lebron actually, in my opinion, made a very selfish
Speaker 1: move over the weekend to not ignowge. If you're not
Speaker 1: going to play, speak up, because then a replacement will
Speaker 1: step in for you, and then that activates a clause
Speaker 1: in that player's contract to get a little cash, Like
Speaker 1: he took money out of somebody's pocket by just wanting
Speaker 1: to have this moment be about him as opposed to
Speaker 1: being just I honestly don't know how his.
Speaker 3: Peers feel about him.
Speaker 1: I really don't, because I think there are two sides
Speaker 1: of the coin, right. I think there are probably plenty
Speaker 1: of players that appreciate the path that he paved for
Speaker 1: simply more player empowerment, and that's not necessarily even a
Speaker 1: bad thing. But then there's the over exaggeration of his
Speaker 1: own story, the outright lies that are very easy to
Speaker 1: pull receipts up for. And if I'm like Porter brought
Speaker 1: up the name Norman Powell, if I'm one of the players
Speaker 1: that was on the outside looking in and realizing that
Speaker 1: I had a chance to be an All Star and
Speaker 1: make a little cash and I'm watching that, I'm probably
Speaker 1: pretty upset.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 3: So give me your thoughts.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm with you, Like I think all that is
Speaker 2: fair if that's the case. Now, our friend Amine al
Speaker 2: Haffen had a theory today on the pot of the
Speaker 2: podcast Basketball Illuminati. Maybe it was a quiet protest. Maybe
Speaker 2: it was a quiet protest of rising stars being allowed
Speaker 2: to play on the Sunday game. And like, I don't
Speaker 2: know if I completely buy that theory, but I'm interested
Speaker 2: because when you think about it, all right, he doesn't
Speaker 2: tell anybody, He just goes out there. He doesn't even dress,
Speaker 2: he just wears his normal clothes and everything, the photo ops.
Speaker 2: Doesn't even dressed for the photo ops and everything. And
Speaker 2: then multiple times on the weekend, multiple times in the
Speaker 2: in the broadcast, Draymond Green, his friend, a clutch athlete,
Speaker 2: starts openly saying, how trash this is that rising stars
Speaker 2: get to play on this day. Lebron doesn't have to
Speaker 2: be the bad guy in that sense. But if that's
Speaker 2: the case, if that theory holds any weight, holds any water,
Speaker 2: I like, I'm I'm very intrigued by it. I don't Again,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I believe it. I've been processing
Speaker 2: it since I heard it this morning, but I like,
Speaker 2: I'm not outright rejecting it as a possibility.
Speaker 3: All Right, hmm. I'll have to digest that. And look,
Speaker 3: I mean like I've been thinking about it all day. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: it means my guy. Tom's my guy.
Speaker 1: At times I listen to that podcast, I'm like, how
Speaker 1: much ayahuasca did you do this morning prior to the record,
Speaker 1: because they go into places and look, it's why it's
Speaker 1: a good product, because they do think outside of the box. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Let me just followup with this since
Speaker 1: I alluded to it. How do you think, like if
Speaker 1: you had a room fall of the majority of the
Speaker 1: league and they had to tell the truth, how do
Speaker 1: you think his peers view him?
Speaker 3: How do you think the other players in the league
Speaker 3: view Lebron James.
Speaker 2: It's a great question because you do have you know,
Speaker 2: you have so many different eras of people who are like,
Speaker 2: you know, hey MJ's the greatest, right, or hey, Kobe's
Speaker 2: actually the greatest. Why isn't he considered for this? Like
Speaker 2: I saw a video, an older video, but it was
Speaker 2: Alan Igerson recently enough talking about I can't believe Kobe
Speaker 2: gets you know, skipped over for these conversations and he's like,
Speaker 2: no disrespect to Lebron, but you know, Kobe was the
Speaker 2: next guy. And then you get to like, I mean, look,
Speaker 2: it's Brandon Miller. But there are players in the league
Speaker 2: that are like, hey, Paul George is the guy, right,
Speaker 2: I'm like, that's crazy, Like what a crazy jump there
Speaker 2: to be like, hey, you know the best players? To me,
Speaker 2: it's Paul George. You know, Ant's favorite player. I don't
Speaker 2: think he's say the best, his favorite player Kevin Durant.
Speaker 2: I don't know how many current players look at Lebron
Speaker 2: that way. I think they appreciate the longevity. I think
Speaker 2: they know, especially once they've been in this for a
Speaker 2: few years, to recognize that we're on year twenty two.
Speaker 2: He's still this good. He's got all these check marks
Speaker 2: on his resume. To your point, like he had the
Speaker 2: most insane expectations for everything and he exceeded them. Like
Speaker 2: he's flat out exceeded them. He hasn't really had Like
Speaker 2: his biggest scandal is is that he you know, he
Speaker 2: signed with a team on television in twenty ten, right,
Speaker 2: Like that's the biggest thing that people really like can
Speaker 2: hold against him still, I guess, but don't I don't
Speaker 2: know that he holds you know, across the League in
Speaker 2: a way that MJ did, or a way that Kobe
Speaker 2: did for a while, because even Kobe was getting that
Speaker 2: as Shaq was still an MVP and a great player,
Speaker 2: and people were still like, yo, Kobe's kind of the guy.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know how many players would be
Speaker 2: like I think they they're appreciative of the player empowerment.
Speaker 2: I think they're appreciative of how this stuff is gone.
Speaker 2: But maybe it was always going to go that way
Speaker 2: and he was just the person to do it rather
Speaker 2: than he's the reason. You know, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3: It does.
Speaker 1: And my best guess is most players would land on,
Speaker 1: you know, ultimate respect with a side of eye roll
Speaker 1: right from time to time where you're like, dude, come on,
Speaker 1: like you know you've already proven it's in a way.
Speaker 1: And I was at the Hall of Fame induction ceremony
Speaker 1: when Michael Jordan gave his famous speech when he just
Speaker 1: eviscerated everybody, and everybody there was like, Mike, like, we
Speaker 1: know that none of those people could guard you, Like
Speaker 1: we watched the whole thing, like why are you reminding us?
Speaker 2: Right? And I kind of that's why he's the greatest
Speaker 2: to me, Oh.
Speaker 1: No, look it was, and that's probably one of the
Speaker 1: things that he used every single night to motivate, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, to play at the top of his game.
Speaker 1: But I think in a different way, I feel the
Speaker 1: same about a lot a lot of the Lebron stuff
Speaker 1: where he's not as outwardly like I want to kill
Speaker 1: you and slash your throat, But like the comments about
Speaker 1: having a high basketball ATQ and the comments about like
Speaker 1: you don't understand what it is to play on the
Speaker 1: level that I do.
Speaker 3: And like it's the same thing. I'm like, I know, man,
Speaker 3: I watch you. It's amazing.
Speaker 1: You don't have to remind us how great you are
Speaker 1: because we can see it. Like that's the stuff with
Speaker 1: him that kind of falls on deaf ears for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like I'll push back on one thing.
Speaker 2: I love the line, the line that we can like
Speaker 2: outright prove immediately to be wrong. I think is such
Speaker 2: a bold move by him and such a funny move
Speaker 2: and such a funny part of his legacy is that
Speaker 2: he will just outright fay stuff that isn't true and
Speaker 2: we're like, hold on a second, like, no, none of that,
Speaker 2: Like we've got receipts here. As he said, like we
Speaker 2: got these receipts, like I don't know, and he just
Speaker 2: kind of like just tries stuff with that in terms
Speaker 2: of narratives his whole like I'm not even a score.
Speaker 2: It's like, you've averaged twenty four points of games since
Speaker 2: you were in the NBA. Like I don't think he's
Speaker 2: I think the lowest he's ever averaged is like twenty
Speaker 2: two or something like that, right, Like, like, no, you're
Speaker 2: a score. Like I get you were supposed to be
Speaker 2: Maggie Johnson, but you you're just like twenty seven a
Speaker 2: game your career like that, like you're a score. No
Speaker 2: one says you're not a scorer. And so his control
Speaker 2: of the narrative can get tiresome at times. But I
Speaker 2: do ultimately think like when you're trying to live up
Speaker 2: to Michael Jordan, right, like he's mentioned before, he's chasing
Speaker 2: that ghost, when you're trying to live up for that
Speaker 2: and you and you can't. In terms of like the
Speaker 2: ways that Mike was accepted versus the ways that lebron
Speaker 2: is judged, you know, he was always going to be
Speaker 2: this crazy uphill battle, but when you can't match that,
Speaker 2: when you have lost in the finals right, you do
Speaker 2: kind of have to pivot a little bit. And I
Speaker 2: guess I understand that attempt by him to rise above
Speaker 2: that standard with focusing on the other stuff, but ultimately
Speaker 2: it's ultimately I just find it funny. But I can't
Speaker 2: take anything seriously, you know.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean the entertainment values through the roof.
Speaker 1: There have been more than a few times where I'm
Speaker 1: watching him in real time say something. I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: what that's like? Not even close?
Speaker 2: Even just walking into an arena on page one of
Speaker 2: a book is so funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, it's so funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, And and I just I always wonder
Speaker 1: how other players digest it because it seems so fake
Speaker 1: and so corny for a guy that's so awesome. It's
Speaker 1: so many things that he does. But one more thing here,
Speaker 1: because have you ever done any anything with its Van Lathan?
Speaker 1: Have you ever worked with him at all? I like him,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know him, but whenever he's
Speaker 1: on a pod, I try to catch it because I
Speaker 1: like his insight and I had forgotten this story, so
Speaker 1: I wanted to see if you had any insight to it.
Speaker 1: Where Lebron in his third or fourth year in the
Speaker 1: league thereabouts, had a camp during the summer where high
Speaker 1: school players showed up and they were in a run
Speaker 1: and Jordan Crawford dunked on him, and according to Van Lathan,
Speaker 1: right after that dunk, he stopped the game and went
Speaker 1: over to everybody who had a phone and said, kill
Speaker 1: that video. I don't want that going online anywhere. And
Speaker 1: you know, I had heard that, but I had forgotten
Speaker 1: about it. And when I listened to Van Lathan unpacked
Speaker 1: out yesterday, I was like, dude, that is kind of
Speaker 1: like a anecdote.
Speaker 3: There might be a microcosm.
Speaker 1: Of exactly why we are where we are with some
Speaker 1: of this stuff, because players are so terrified to have
Speaker 1: one clip go viral and then exist on the internet forever.
Speaker 1: And Jordan Crawford was a good player, I mean, he
Speaker 1: played pro basketball. So do you have any insight into
Speaker 1: how that went down? And what does that kind of
Speaker 1: snapshot say to you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't, like, I definitely remember that, and I
Speaker 2: remember the rumors and then I like the footage got
Speaker 2: out at some point it did. Yes, it's had it,
Speaker 2: and it's like it's not even like it's not like
Speaker 2: Anthony Edwards on John Collins, Like it's like it's it's
Speaker 2: like he dunked on him, but it wasn't. It wasn't
Speaker 2: this like biblical thing. And so it's funny to me
Speaker 2: because I do think, like I do think there is
Speaker 2: a real level of insecurity with Lebron, whereas I like,
Speaker 2: I think Kobe was insecure and how he was trying
Speaker 2: to catch Mike. I think Mike was just and I'd
Speaker 2: say this lovingly, like a psychopath, right that. Like even
Speaker 2: in the Last Dance documentary, there's a point where he's
Speaker 2: in a hotel room and he's like, I no one
Speaker 2: would want this life. And you're like, that's crazy. You're
Speaker 2: the highest paid player, you're the most popular, and he's like,
Speaker 2: this is miserable, right Like he was just outright, this
Speaker 2: is miserable, but he has to do it this way,
Speaker 2: and trying to replicate that when that's the standard, I
Speaker 2: think leads to a lot of insecurity in a game
Speaker 2: where you are harshly judged. And so I think any
Speaker 2: little bit as you were growing up, you know more
Speaker 2: and more in an Internet era where you know, Mike
Speaker 2: didn't have to deal with that, Kobe early on didn't
Speaker 2: have to deal with that. Lebron, He's just old enough
Speaker 2: to like to be kind of aware of that stuff,
Speaker 2: you know, at a young enough age. And I remember
Speaker 2: it not as him stopping the practice or stopping the
Speaker 2: run and everyone's got a story. I remember that as
Speaker 2: like Nike officials went and this is probably at the
Speaker 2: behest of Lebron, if this is true, But Nike officials
Speaker 2: went and like took all the footage they could get
Speaker 2: and to eliminate that, right, And so I don't know
Speaker 2: if that's like a team thing controlling the narrative, but
Speaker 2: he is so worried about his narrative and being misjudged
Speaker 2: or underappreciated, and it's like, man, we appreciate you. It's
Speaker 2: just eventually you move on to the next era.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: It's like the kid in school who tried the hardest
Speaker 1: to be cool is the one that was least cool.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know you either are you you aren't?
Speaker 1: You know, like stop trying so hard. Would you trade
Speaker 1: a life that is thought to be miserable in exchange
Speaker 1: for being Michael Jordan?
Speaker 3: I should say, would you agree to a life.
Speaker 1: That is not to be miserable if that meant you
Speaker 1: could be Michael Jordan. I, man, I like I have
Speaker 1: a lot of irrational confidence in my life.
Speaker 2: I can't be I can't imagine being a litle to
Speaker 2: back it up that way like that would be. That's
Speaker 2: a level of power that I don't I mean, of
Speaker 2: course I would like that like that. My answer is
Speaker 2: ultimately yes, but I think it's way more complicated than
Speaker 2: people think.
Speaker 1: And I also do not trust myself with that type
Speaker 1: of ability. I mean, I would score twenty in a
Speaker 1: high school game and almost get shot in a venue
Speaker 1: because I just couldn't stop talking to the other players
Speaker 1: or the other crowd. So if I was the best
Speaker 1: player in the world, I probably would be murdered if
Speaker 1: I'm honest.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. I don't think you could be that
Speaker 2: type of player, that type of person. I don't think
Speaker 2: you could be that today. As much as it's like
Speaker 2: sort of revered that level of like And again I
Speaker 2: don't say this as like a disparager remark. I think
Speaker 2: it's I think it's ultimately a positive for his career,
Speaker 2: but that level of like competitive psychosis, like I don't
Speaker 2: think that I don't think that would be accepted today,
Speaker 2: like as a culture.
Speaker 1: Yeah, You're probably right, I would, you know, And I
Speaker 1: guess it's a good point to bring up because, in
Speaker 1: fairness to Lebron, like, I wonder what the Michael Jordan
Speaker 1: narrative would be if everywhere he went there were cameras
Speaker 1: following him. Man, because I know some of the sausage
Speaker 1: that was maybe on the scenes, I certainly don't know
Speaker 1: all of it.
Speaker 2: And you know, like, I'm sure it's rough.
Speaker 3: Oh we knew.
Speaker 1: If we knew all the details about Michael Jordan, and
Speaker 1: I mean all the details about Michael Jordan when he
Speaker 1: wasn't playing basketball, there's no way he's remembered the way
Speaker 1: he is today. So in fairness to Lebron, our guy
Speaker 1: was raised under a microscope the way that Mike wasn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely he was. And I think, man, like you
Speaker 2: have any kind of eyes on it, it's like it's
Speaker 2: the whole thing of you might like feel like you're
Speaker 2: wearing something that doesn't fit right or looks stupid, and
Speaker 2: you're in your mind, you're in a grocery store and
Speaker 2: you're like everyone is staring at me, everyone is judging me,
Speaker 2: everyone's looking at me, and in reality, like no one cares.
Speaker 2: Maybe one person cares right, So to have that about
Speaker 2: your like professional life, that you've essentially sacrificed the childhood
Speaker 2: and an adulthood on some level in order to become
Speaker 2: the best at it or to maximize whatever potential you
Speaker 2: had to do all that and then it's still scrutinized.
Speaker 2: Like I always think about this of like think about
Speaker 2: how good, how historically good Chris Paul is at basketball, right,
Speaker 2: and how easily dismissed he is. That's got to be
Speaker 2: mad being.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, and and a lot of the
Speaker 1: criticisms are fair. I've always been a Chris Ball guy.
Speaker 1: But your point, your point is well taken. All right, man,
Speaker 1: good stuff today, and I'm glad we agree. And I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have this asteroid topic with the rest of my
Speaker 1: guest because I could not stop thinking about it last night.
Speaker 1: But yes, the thought of what you could do the
Speaker 1: final couple of days, be where everything ends is just
Speaker 1: it's too intoxicating.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie if you remember. Let's revisit it
Speaker 2: again next week because I want to. I really want
Speaker 2: to think about this and like what that would entail
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 3: Fair enough, We'll do that, buddy.
Speaker 1: I have a good week with Chatso I'm Zach Harper
Speaker 1: from the Athletic also hosts the Cinapho podcast. He's got
Speaker 1: a podcast called Count the Dings. He does work on
Speaker 1: serious XM. He's a busy boy at tak Hoops is
Speaker 1: where you find him on social media.