WEBVTT 1 00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:33.880 Welcome back to the Pathman Chile for part two of 2 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:38.719 our series about ten non mysterious cases involving identified people. 3 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:42.000 If you didn't hear our episode last week, we decided 4 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:44.000 to do an idea where we're going to be going 5 00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:47.159 over an old article I published for listeners dot com 6 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:50.560 back in June of twenty thirteen, which was titled ten 7 00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:55.960 mysterious cases involving Unidentified people. Genetic genealogy and forensics have 8 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:58.600 evolved so much that here we are about twelve and 9 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:01.719 a half years later, and every single victim on this 10 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:04.920 list that I wrote has since been identified. So in 11 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:08.280 our last episode we talked about the cases entries number 12 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:11.359 ten through eight on this list. So in part two, 13 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:13.640 we're going to talk about the next couple entries, and 14 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:16.480 our format is that I will read my original write up, 15 00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:19.159 Jules and Ashley will give their thoughts, and then I'll 16 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:22.599 explain the circumstances of how each of these victims were identified. 17 00:01:24.040 --> 00:01:26.400 So the next one on our list is number seven 18 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:31.640 is a decedent known only as Lyle Stevick. On September fourteenth, 19 00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:33.799 two thousand and one, a man appearing to be in 20 00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:37.239 his twenties checked into a motel in Gray's Harbor's, Washington. 21 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:40.400 He registered under the name Lyle Stevick and listed an 22 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:44.000 address from Meridian, Idaho. He only paid for one evening, 23 00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:46.400 but told the staff he was likely planning to stay 24 00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:50.400 a few extra days. On September seventeenth, his body was 25 00:01:50.439 --> 00:01:52.959 found in his room, hanging from a coat rack with 26 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:55.760 a leather belt. It is estimated that he had completed 27 00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:59.040 suicide the day before. He left money on the nightstand 28 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:03.439 alongside a note that said for the room. Upon further investigation, 29 00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:06.000 it was discovered that Lyle Stevick is the name of 30 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:09.080 a character from a Joyce Carol Oates novel. You must 31 00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:11.520 remember this so that there's a good chance this man 32 00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:15.080 had registered under an alias. The Idaho address he wrote 33 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:18.599 down actually belonged to a Best Western motel. The man 34 00:02:18.680 --> 00:02:22.280 carried no identification or luggage, and the only possessions left 35 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:26.080 behind were a toothbrush and toothpaste. The only other clue 36 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:28.960 was a discarded piece of paper in the room's wastebasket, 37 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:33.319 which read suicide. All attempts to uncover anything about this 38 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:35.719 man's background have proved unsuccessful. 39 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:39.840 I got really into watching mystery YouTube stuff, maybe like 40 00:02:40.199 --> 00:02:44.639 twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, and I remember coming across Lyle 41 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:48.560 Stavick's case, and I think that he also was wearing 42 00:02:48.599 --> 00:02:51.000 clothes that were way too big for him, that it 43 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.919 looked like he'd lost a decent amount of weight in 44 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:57.400 the time I guess leading up to his death. And 45 00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:00.280 there was just something so sad and isolated about the 46 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:03.560 fact that he decided to go into this hotel and 47 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:06.759 made the choice to end his life. It makes you 48 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:09.400 wonder what type of life did he have, what type 49 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:12.919 of connections did he have, Who's out there that's missing 50 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:15.639 him right now? He has to have a family. I'm 51 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:19.479 sure that he had some friends, and that he's felt 52 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:22.159 so alone and that he felt that he was in 53 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:25.759 so much pain that that was his only choice. My 54 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:28.680 heart just broke for his family. The fact that he's 55 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:33.080 sitting somewhere either you know, he's been buried or he's 56 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:35.759 sitting in a morgue somewhere, and the fact that he 57 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:39.319 got his identity back. And I think that you'll tell 58 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:42.439 us more details about that, but there's still a lot 59 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:44.680 of mystery surrounding Lyle Steviit. 60 00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:47.080 What's interesting, too, is when you think about the character 61 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:52.240 from Joyce Od's novel, that character was actually contemplating suicide. 62 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:56.319 So when he checks into that hotel and he registers 63 00:03:56.400 --> 00:04:00.960 under that name, he already is aware that he's contemplating 64 00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:04.120 at least taking his own life. And what's really pitiful 65 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:07.240 is he has enough moral wherewithal to leave money on 66 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:10.719 the nightstand to pay for his room. So he feels 67 00:04:10.759 --> 00:04:13.560 a humanity towards others, like they're going to find me, 68 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:17.279 but I don't want to, you know, financially burden them 69 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:19.399 as well. So I'm going to pay for the room 70 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:21.399 and then I'm going to take my own life. Like 71 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:23.879 that gave me chills when I saw that that this 72 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:26.240 is a man who's hurting so badly or feels so 73 00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:29.160 isolated that he's going to take his own life. But 74 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:31.720 he still cared about the people that were going to 75 00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:34.000 have to find him, and so that, I don't know, 76 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:35.839 that's something that really stuck out to me. He left 77 00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:38.680 money to pay for his room, knowing when he checked 78 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:42.079 in he used an alias of a character who is 79 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:43.519 debating taking their own life. 80 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:46.480 Yeah, there are quite a few cases just like this 81 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:50.639 about individuals who check into hotels or motels under false 82 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:52.839 names and then decide to take their own life. You 83 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:55.160 might recall that we once did a series on the 84 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:58.839 Jennifer Fairgate case from Norway, which was featured on the 85 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:02.240 Netflix reboot of Unst Mysteries, where she shot herself inside 86 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:05.160 a very fancy hotel, and of course the name she used, 87 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:09.199 Jennifer Fairgate, was likely a fake and she is still unidentified. 88 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:11.680 There are always a lot of wild theories that's around 89 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:13.879 cases like this about how the victim might be a 90 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:16.639 spy or something like that. I know, for Lyle's case, 91 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:20.160 because he checked in only three days after nine to eleven, 92 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:22.000 there was a lot of speculation there might be a 93 00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:24.639 connection that maybe he lost a relative and one of 94 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:27.560 the terrorist attacks. But the big turning point took place 95 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:30.879 in May of twenty eighteen, and if you might recall, 96 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:33.839 this was a short time after the Golden State killer 97 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:37.240 was finally identified and arrested. And this was a big 98 00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:41.879 turning point in investigations for cold cases because they identified 99 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:45.399 them using genetic genealogy, and I think they realized that 100 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:47.879 we can use this at a lot of other unsolved 101 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:51.120 cases and it pretty much opened the floodgates and a 102 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:54.399 lot of these cases that were solved where unidentified decedents 103 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:57.079 where they realized if you entered this DNA into some 104 00:05:57.240 --> 00:06:01.959 genealogical database, it might eventually to a biological relative. And 105 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:05.600 that's exactly what happened with Lyle Stevick. He was identified 106 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:09.439 by the DNA dough project because his DNA was uploaded 107 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:13.079 gen Match and was eventually linked to some individuals living 108 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:16.120 in New Mexico and Idaho, and they finally found his 109 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:20.879 genetic relatives and he was positively identified. It turned out 110 00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:24.600 that he originally hailed from Alameda County, California, and was 111 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:26.560 twenty five years old at the time of his death. 112 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:29.720 But this is pretty much the only information about him 113 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:32.879 that they've released publicly. They have not even released his 114 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:36.120 real name. When investigators tracked down his family, they claimed 115 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:38.759 they had no idea that he had taken his own life. 116 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:41.439 They just assumed that he decided to cut off all 117 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:43.839 ties with them and go off to live his life somewhere. 118 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:46.120 So they were taken by surprise when they learned that 119 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:49.519 he was one of the more famous unidentified john does 120 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:52.079 in the United States at that time. But in the 121 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:55.439 interest of maintaining their privacy, Lyle's family have elected not 122 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:58.680 to publicly reveal his real name or any other details 123 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:01.800 about his background. If you search hard enough online, you 124 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:03.959 can find his real name. But out of respect to 125 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:06.319 his family, I'm not going to repeat it here, but 126 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:09.480 this reaction pretty much brought out the worst in the 127 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:12.360 true crime community because a lot of people were very 128 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:14.800 angry that the family did this. They felt that they 129 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:18.240 were entitled to know Lyles's real name and his identity, 130 00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:21.399 and they were leaving like disgusting comments saying, well, I 131 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:23.879 donated to the DNA DO project, and if I had 132 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:25.800 known that they were going to reveal his name or 133 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:27.920 his background, I never would have done that. It's like 134 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:31.480 there was such a feeling of entitlement and selfishness about it, 135 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:33.879 and no respect for the victim's family, who got a 136 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:36.920 major backlash over the whole thing. But I mean, it's 137 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:40.040 not our it's not their lives, like, it's their family's decisions. 138 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:42.879 So if they're not comfortable revealing Lyle's real name or 139 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:46.360 anything about him, then that's their prerogative. But people really 140 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:47.279 overreacted to that. 141 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:51.879 I remember, I can't imagine feeling entitled to have access 142 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:54.920 to a family's most intimate, most heartbreaking moment like We 143 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:59.720 are very fortunate as true crime people of interest, right 144 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:02.879 thing that that is of interest to us that families 145 00:08:02.920 --> 00:08:05.639 open their lives to us often, But in a moment 146 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:09.160 where a family says, I'm so heartbroken. This is our 147 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:12.079 private mourning, this is something we're dealing with. Please leave 148 00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:15.920 us alone to not say thank you. I wish you 149 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:19.360 nothing but the best, and I have ultimate respect for that. Oh, 150 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:22.319 thank you Robn for protecting his identity, because that's what 151 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:24.959 the family has asked for. What was sad in this 152 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:28.079 case is that you look back and there's reports that 153 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:31.240 the family said, you know, he had voluntarily estranged from 154 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:34.240 the family, or that there had been some distance between them, 155 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:36.759 so they had assumed that he had chosen not to 156 00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:40.039 have contact, and that there wasn't a huge concern that 157 00:08:40.120 --> 00:08:41.840 he had taken his own life or that he would 158 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:44.440 be missing, and that's why reports hadn't been made that 159 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:48.120 there had something had happened. That's heartbreaking as well. To 160 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:50.320 combine that with the fact that he then chose to 161 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.720 take his own life likely had a lot to do 162 00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:55.159 with the fact that he was estranged from his family. 163 00:08:55.240 --> 00:08:58.840 So that's a grief that I can't even imagine. What 164 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:02.720 that feels like that my child, my brother, whoever he 165 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:07.279 is to that family, had a falling out, had chosen 166 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:10.200 because of mental health or something else, to separate from us, 167 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:13.960 and because we weren't there, he made this decision like 168 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:15.440 what if I had been there or what if I 169 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:17.919 had been able to repair that relationship. So there's so 170 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:21.240 much added trauma and grief that comes in this case. 171 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:25.720 It's absolutely heartbreaking for that family. It's not someone who 172 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:27.559 chose to leave and then was able to have a 173 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:30.759 healthy life that they chose. It's someone who left your 174 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:32.879 family and then made a decision that they were so 175 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:34.080 alone they couldn't go on. 176 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:35.600 That's heavy. 177 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:39.279 So I one thousand percent respect and honor the fact 178 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:42.000 that they said, please let this be. We've been through 179 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:42.360 it enough. 180 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:47.200 It's been nearly a quarter century since Lyle Stavik's well, 181 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:50.000 we don't know his actual name, but I'll just continue 182 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:53.080 to call him Lyle Stebic because out of respect for 183 00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:56.399 the family, we don't want to reveal his identity. And 184 00:09:57.320 --> 00:10:01.120 in two thousand and one, mental health care and the 185 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:05.480 conversations surrounding mental health weren't what they are today. So 186 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:08.799 if Lyle was struggling, perhaps he was dealing with a 187 00:10:08.840 --> 00:10:13.039 mental health disorder or something that would be a catalyst 188 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:16.600 for him estranging himself voluntarily from the family. We don't 189 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:19.000 know what his internal struggles were, We don't know what 190 00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:21.799 his traumas were, we don't know what his triggers were. 191 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.120 But obviously he was suffering immensely to take to make 192 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:28.840 the decision to end his own life. But it makes 193 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:31.639 me really sad to think that perhaps there could have 194 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:34.440 been somewhere that he could have reached out to or 195 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:38.720 somebody if the conversation was different around mental health. I 196 00:10:38.759 --> 00:10:41.919 think we can take it for granted today that we're 197 00:10:42.039 --> 00:10:44.639 very open as a society. We still have leaps and 198 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:48.799 bounds to go. But if somebody is struggling with anxiety 199 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:53.879 or depression, bipolar disorder, any of the cluster b disorders, schizophrenia, 200 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:57.960 people feel okay to discuss it and to reveal that 201 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:02.399 about themselves in many cases. But when this happened to Lyle, 202 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:06.679 it was very much something that people suffered with in silence, 203 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:09.679 and not everybody, but a lot of people did. 204 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:13.519 Yeah, like he Even though two thousand and one doesn't 205 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:15.559 seem like such a long time ago, it kind of 206 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:17.600 hits me, and it's like, ooh, it has been twenty 207 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:19.919 four years, and you are right that mental health care, 208 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:21.919 even though it was better than it would have been 209 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:24.519 back in the nineteen seventies or so, was still had 210 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:27.039 a long way to go. So we have no idea 211 00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:29.639 what Lyle was going through, what made him decide to 212 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:31.919 do what he did, but it is kind of sad 213 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:34.240 like he maybe could have reached out for help and 214 00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:36.399 maybe this could have been avoided, but we just don't 215 00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:39.159 know what was going on in his mind. And it 216 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:42.879 is sad though that obviously if his family never reported 217 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:45.000 in missing and were just assuming that he had cut 218 00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:47.759 himself off from them, that he probably did not have 219 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:51.120 the greatest relationship with them. But I do respect that 220 00:11:51.159 --> 00:11:53.799 their privacy that they didn't want to reveal anything. They 221 00:11:53.799 --> 00:11:56.759 are not the only family of an identified John or 222 00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:00.279 Jane Doe who has chosen to maintain their privacy, because 223 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:02.720 one pattern I have seen is that even if the 224 00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:06.120 family is very active and want to reveal everything about 225 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:09.720 the victim's background, it's perhaps inevitable that they'll often face 226 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:13.320 like criticism online from amateur slus who says, well, why 227 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:16.399 didn't you report the missing and they're not seeing the 228 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:19.000 context that if they went missing in like the seventies 229 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:22.039 and eighties, and they disappeared and were found dead in 230 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:24.960 a state or a province where they were not born, 231 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:28.759 it's very hard to get because of jurisdictional issues, to 232 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:31.519 get a proper investigation launch. So in a lot of 233 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:34.600 these cases, the victims' families were actively looking for them 234 00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:36.759 and trying to find out what happened, but because of 235 00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:40.600 jurisdictional issues and being unable to get law enforcement to 236 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:43.360 do anything, they were pretty much like at a dead end, 237 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:45.840 and that's why they didn't find out what happened to 238 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:47.960 their relative until decades after they died. 239 00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:51.519 And I think it would be different if Lyle was murdered. 240 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:55.840 The fact that he decided to complete suicide that feels 241 00:12:55.840 --> 00:12:58.600 like a deeply personal matter for a lot of families. 242 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:02.080 So I can completely stand and empathize with their decision 243 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:04.879 not to want to put their own details on blast, 244 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:08.639 because they knew that if they did reveal his identity, 245 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:12.600 that would then thereby reveal their identities, and so they 246 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:17.320 would become this like topic of discussion and fodder in 247 00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:21.759 all these different true crime forums on podcasts, and people 248 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:24.559 would be really interested in these details, and so when 249 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:28.120 you're grieving, to want to maintain that privacy and to 250 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:30.960 want to do it alone without the public scrutiny, I 251 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:32.519 can completely understand that. 252 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:36.360 So our next entry on the list is the Caledonia 253 00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:38.679 Jane Doe, and I'll read the write up right now. 254 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:41.759 On the morning of November the ninth, nineteen seventy nine, 255 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:44.519 a passing motorist discovered the body of a young woman 256 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:48.279 in a cornfield near Caledonia, New York. She looked to 257 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:51.000 be between thirteen and nineteen years old, and was killed 258 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:54.679 by two gunshot wounds to the head. Authorities estimate that 259 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:57.600 the murder weapon was a thirty eight caliber handgun. She 260 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:01.200 was likely killed the night before, but unfortunately heavy rains 261 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:05.000 that washed away potential forensic evidence. Her pockets have been 262 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:08.600 turned inside out, indicating that the killer had possibly removed 263 00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:12.399 her identification. A waitress reported seeing the woman at a 264 00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:15.639 diner in Lymeman, New York, the night before, and numerous 265 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:18.360 truckers claimed that they had seen her hitchhiking and attempting 266 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:22.240 to catch rides. In two thousand and six, three microscopic 267 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:25.360 pollen grains found inside her clothing ranalyzed, and it was 268 00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:28.399 determined that they could have only come from Florida, Arizona, 269 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:31.759 or southern California, indicating that the girl had traveled a 270 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:35.320 great distance before her death. But even though AUTHORISA followed 271 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:37.480 up on over ten thousand leads, she has yet to 272 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:40.919 be identified and remains buried under the name Jane Doe 273 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:42.159 in Dansville, New York. 274 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:46.120 Wow, this one, when you think about this is a child, 275 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:51.039 someone who's thirteen to nineteen years old, with two gunshot wounds. 276 00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:54.480 That the head is so graphic and so brutal, and 277 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:56.799 she's a hitchhiker, which in the seventies would make a 278 00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:59.320 lot of sense. But this is a child who's likely 279 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:03.879 hitchhiked eight very long distance, which may not be as normal. Right, 280 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:06.679 so hitching a ride into a fellow cities or hitching 281 00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:09.360 a ride maybe one hundred miles, so be it. But 282 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.320 let's say she's thirteen. A thirteen year old to be 283 00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:16.039 hitchhiking across the states would be quite extreme, And so 284 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:20.919 it's interesting to think about what happened, where was she going, 285 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:23.480 and who did she run into that would go to 286 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:26.320 a point where they're gonna go through her pockets and 287 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:29.679 shoot her twice with a shotgun. It just seems incredibly 288 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:34.000 like a significant moment. This is somebody they need to 289 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:36.559 discard of who's such a young age and probably not 290 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:37.639 very much of a thread. 291 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:42.039 Yeah, it's shocking her age to think that she was 292 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:46.399 hitchhiking any great distance because thinking back to being that 293 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:51.559 age and going anywhere without your parents. Sure like you might, 294 00:15:51.720 --> 00:15:53.679 you know, go and hang out with your friends and whatever. 295 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:57.639 But the idea of packing up your stuff walking out 296 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:01.440 that door, going into the a bit into the unknown. 297 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:04.399 You are putting out your thumb and you don't know 298 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:06.960 who is going to pick you up. It could be 299 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:10.200 somebody dangerous, it could be somebody safe, but you are 300 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:13.320 obviously running away from something. There had to have been 301 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:18.399 something that was either scary or traumatizing, or a reason 302 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:21.159 that she felt that it was a better option for 303 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:24.240 her to leave home and to take a chance with 304 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:27.519 strangers on the road and to sleep roth than it 305 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:28.559 was to stay where. 306 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:32.159 She was and cross country. So she's up in New 307 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:34.799 York and this has to be the pollen found on 308 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:38.159 her had to be from they said, Florida, Arizona or 309 00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:41.360 southern California. So there's not a single option there that 310 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:43.679 says this was just one hundred miles or so she 311 00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:46.840 wanted to travel. She's going to make a cross country 312 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:50.120 trip at this age and run into someone that dangerous 313 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:52.720 in that trip. It's quite extreme. 314 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:56.039 But couldn't she have picked up that pollen in the 315 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:58.360 truck of one of the truckers. 316 00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:01.399 That is true. Yes, I find out she really was 317 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:04.759 from Florida, so maybe that's where she originally got the POLLMN. 318 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:06.759 But yeah, I always thought that a little bit that 319 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:09.200 that doesn't necessarily mean she was from there, that maybe 320 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:12.079 if the killer was a cross country trucker, that the 321 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:15.519 polem could have originated from them. So, as we're going 322 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.279 to talk about, this victim did not have the happiest 323 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:21.680 home life, and she was hitchhiking across the country. This 324 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:23.839 is not the only case of this ilk that I've 325 00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:27.200 seen where a victim was murdered while hitch hiking through 326 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:29.880 number of different states while they were still a teenager, 327 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:33.240 which seems pretty shocking today, but was not all that 328 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:36.799 uncommon during the nineteen seventies. And this is a case 329 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:41.279 that actually the identification of the victim pre dated genetic genealogy. 330 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:43.640 It took place all the way back in January of 331 00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:46.880 twenty fifteen, only about a year and a half after 332 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:49.720 I wrote the list first article, and of course before 333 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:52.960 genetic genealogy. The best way you could identify these people 334 00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:55.839 is find a family member who looked like a potential 335 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:58.880 candidate to be related to the victim, check their DNA, 336 00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:02.279 and hope that it to be a match. So it 337 00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:05.960 was finally announced in January of twenty fifteen that Caledonia 338 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:09.400 Jane Doe had been identified as sixteen year old Tammy 339 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:13.480 Joe Alexander, who did hail from Brooksville, Florida, and of course, 340 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:15.480 none of her friends and family had heard from her 341 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.880 since the spring of nineteen seventy nine and just assumed 342 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:22.119 that she ran away months before the identification because no 343 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:25.519 missing persons report had ever been filed, Tammy's half sister, 344 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:28.599 Pamela Dyson, and one of her old high school friends 345 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:31.200 decided to try to figure out what happened to Tammy 346 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:34.000 and file a report for the first time with the 347 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:37.880 local sheriff's office, and this soon captured the attention of 348 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:41.640 a very prominent websleoth named Carl Koppleman, who was also 349 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:45.440 a very talented forensic artist. Who has a history of 350 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:50.680 using post mortem pictures to create digital illustrations for unidentified decedents. 351 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:52.720 And if you look at a lot of the composite 352 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:56.200 sketches for these victims online, which are very lifelike, there's 353 00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:59.279 a good chance that they were created by Carl Koppleman. 354 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:02.839 He was looking through a recently foul missing person's report. 355 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:07.200 He saw Tammy Joe Alexander's photograph and a light bulb 356 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:09.400 went off over his head and he realized, Wow, this 357 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:13.039 kind of bears a strong resemblance to the Caledonia Jane 358 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:16.359 Doe because he had created a sketch for her years earlier. 359 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:20.680 So he decided to contact law enforcement. They collected DNA 360 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:24.119 from Tammy's half sister, Pamela, and lo and behold, it 361 00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:27.160 turned out to be a match, and the Caledonia Jane 362 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:30.200 Doe was finally identified as Tammy Joe Alexander. 363 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:33.759 You must have been so excited. This is the first 364 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:35.599 one that you got to check off the list. You 365 00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:36.799 must have been elated. 366 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:39.319 I was, yes. I think there was another one we're 367 00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:42.000 going to talk about later that also had an identification 368 00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:44.920 in twenty fifteen, But back then this sort of thing 369 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.759 was more rare. It's not like today where genetic genealogy 370 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:50.359 is identifying like several decedents per week. 371 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:53.279 And what's interesting here is if you do look at 372 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:55.880 the composite that they made of her, she has such 373 00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:59.039 a unique nose shape, and she has a really distinct 374 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:02.039 smile as well, and so the way her teeth are 375 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:04.240 structured and the way her nose turns up, it's it's 376 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:06.960 very very distinct. And so then when you compare that 377 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:10.759 to her picture, it's incredible that the actual person who 378 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.640 had created the composite sketches just looking through this list 379 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:16.319 of missing persons and says, wait a minute, I just 380 00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:20.519 designed a composite that looks very similar to this young lady. 381 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:23.480 And so it's incredible when you compare the two, it's 382 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:26.799 almost a spitting image of her actual picture. 383 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:31.920 It's unbelievable, Like it looks like it seems so lifelike 384 00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:35.039 and everything like the amount of tooth show like you said, 385 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:38.799 the jaw structure, the eyes even just like the amount 386 00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:41.640 of putting in the eyes and the placement of the eyebrows. 387 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:43.039 It's incredible. 388 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:47.880 Yeah, Before genetic genealogy, Carl Koppelman was the main reason 389 00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.759 a lot of these victims were identified because his sketches 390 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:53.480 were so good. And this is not the only example. 391 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:56.119 When you look at the photograph, when you look at 392 00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:58.640 the sketch and then a photograph of the victim and 393 00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:01.240 be struck by how somil they are to each other, 394 00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:03.519 and more often than not, it paved the way for 395 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:08.119 them being identified. But not surprisingly, Tammy did not have 396 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:12.000 the happiest home life growing up. She and Pamela grew 397 00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:14.920 up with a mother who was addicted to prescription medication 398 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:18.720 and was described as being emotionally volatile and erupting into 399 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:23.279 temper tantrums and also had suicidal thoughts quite often, and 400 00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:25.880 Pamela would later say, quote, I think she had issues 401 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.519