WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:09.039 Big Food and be on with Cliff and Bobo. These 2 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:13.039 guys are you favorites, So like to say subscribe and raid. 3 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:16.199 It five star and me. 4 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:24.879 Greatest on Yesterday and listening watching Lin always keep its watching. 5 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:31.719 And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay. Hey, Bobo, 6 00:00:31.839 --> 00:00:34.719 this is a special episode. We have brought back doctor 7 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:37.600 Jeff Meldrim for our two hundredth episode. He was our 8 00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:40.200 guest on our one hundredth episode, so we figured every 9 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:43.520 one hundred episodes we can subject doctor Meldrim to Cliff 10 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:46.799 and Bobo for an hour or so. So Jeff, thank 11 00:00:46.840 --> 00:00:49.640 you very very much for coming back for our second 12 00:00:49.640 --> 00:00:52.439 one hundredth episode, our two hundredth episode. We really appreciate 13 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:52.880 your time. 14 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:56.000 Oh I'm honored, privileged. Yeah, thank you very much for 15 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:56.600 the invitation. 16 00:00:56.960 --> 00:00:59.880 Hey, Jeff cool, Well, you know, I've got a wholelistic 17 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:02.359 questions and things we can talk about, and if there's 18 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:04.079 anything you want to talk about, of course we want 19 00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:07.760 you to jump into. But you know, you've become the 20 00:01:07.799 --> 00:01:09.959 scientific figurehead in a lot of ways, in the same 21 00:01:09.959 --> 00:01:13.719 way that doctor Krantz was for so long, and you 22 00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:15.920 knew doctor Krantz, of course, but he was wasn't he 23 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:18.480 as an osteologist. Wasn't his specialty bones. 24 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:25.239 He was a classic physical anthropologist, and so that included 25 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:31.719 a number of disciplines that he published in regularly. He 26 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:38.040 was a paleoanthropologist, so he worked with the both the 27 00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:45.280 discovery of and identification and analysis of fossil hominin bones, 28 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:51.640 skeletal remains, and so also as a classical physical anthropologist, 29 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:56.120 I'm sure he did teach the Human Osteology course, which 30 00:01:56.159 --> 00:02:00.079 is an in depth treatment of the skeletal system of 31 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:07.920 the human species and for both evolutionary but also archaeological objectives. 32 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:15.159 He was also very talented anatomist and applied that talent 33 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:24.039 to forensic reconstructions of crania from partial remains. So his 34 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:28.080 Gigantopitheicis skull is an example of that. He also did, 35 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:31.759 you know, the only kind of working model of what 36 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:36.360 meganthropists might have looked like based on its very large 37 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:41.520 and robust mandible remains. So based on the correlation of 38 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:46.639 form and function, he could take a few bits and 39 00:02:48.039 --> 00:02:51.840 estimate what the remainder of the skull may have looked like. 40 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:57.560 And I think he you know, exhibited some real talent 41 00:02:57.639 --> 00:03:01.639 and insight in that respect. He was kind of a 42 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:03.599 renaissance man in many ways. 43 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:06.560 Yeah, almost like a generalist in a way, it sounds like. 44 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:09.039 And the reason I thought he was an osteologist is 45 00:03:09.080 --> 00:03:11.639 because several of the people I've met of my own 46 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:15.879 age group who took classes from him apparently all took 47 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:16.960 osteology classes. 48 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:21.879 Sure, that's a pretty standard fair in an anthropological curriculum. 49 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:23.039 Yeah yeah. 50 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:26.039 Now, now you brought up meganthropists, of course, and I 51 00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:27.879 want to touch base on that in a little while. 52 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:31.360 But now contrasts that with your own field of study, 53 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:35.479 because you know, doctor Krantz really laid a foundation for 54 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:37.280 all scientists who are going to come after him. And 55 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:39.479 right now you're standing on that shoulder, on those set 56 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:41.759 of shoulders. But you've been able to have been able 57 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:44.400 to expand on what doctor Krantz did because of your 58 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:48.199 own specified study area. 59 00:03:48.439 --> 00:03:50.840 So how do you differ exactly? 60 00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:57.120 Well, I came at physical anthropology from a slightly different perspective. 61 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:01.120 At the time I entered into Grat graduate school, there 62 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:06.560 was rather a glut of anthropologists and or, at least 63 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:09.479 maybe better way to say, it was a dearth of 64 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:15.080 openings for employment and at in academic positions, and so 65 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:21.519 one an alternate pathway. Instead of the classical anthropological degree 66 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:30.319 that included the disciplines the subdisciplines of archaeology, social, cultural linguistics, 67 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:36.600 and physical I instead was a cohort at an institution 68 00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:41.680 where physical anthropologists had been recruited into departments of anatomy 69 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:45.480 at medical schools to teach human gross anatomy in the 70 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:49.720 health professions programs in medical school, physical therapy school, and 71 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:54.120 so forth. And so my degree was actually an anatomical 72 00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:57.879 sciences So rather than having with an emphasis with an 73 00:04:57.879 --> 00:05:01.439 emphasis in physical anthropology, so rather than having the classic 74 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:07.839 for sub discipline anthropological training, which would really better suit 75 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:13.000 me for employment in an anthropology department, I got this 76 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:19.279 degree which then afforded me the opportunity to teach human 77 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:23.319 gross anatomy regional gross anatomy at the graduate level in 78 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:27.920 medical schools and there. Like I said, there were programs 79 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:31.800 like that that were popping up in various places, and 80 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:36.839 Sunny Stonybrook was one, Duke was one where I did 81 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:43.240 a post doc, and others Johns Hopkins, UCLA and other schools. 82 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:45.680 But anyway, so it was a little different. So I 83 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:50.519 basically had the first two years of medical school elbow 84 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:53.160 to elbow with one hundred and twenty medical students. You know, 85 00:05:54.120 --> 00:05:56.079 I think there were six of us in my cohort 86 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:04.160 of anthropology students. And when then subsequently, as those medical 87 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:08.120 students would go into more and more clinical courses, we 88 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:16.800 would go into classes in evolutionary biology, in osteology, in 89 00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:22.240 comparative primate anatomy, and so forth, and so more of 90 00:06:22.279 --> 00:06:27.720 the basic sciences that touched on anthropology and ecology and evolution. 91 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:32.079 And so it was a great experience. I mean, it 92 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:35.160 was really it was a tough program though. I mean, 93 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:39.079 of the six, I think only two of us completed 94 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:40.199 the program. 95 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:43.040 What was it around this time that you became interested 96 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:48.079 in bipedalism and the anatomy of feet or it sounds 97 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:49.959 at some point or another you kind of zeroed in 98 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:51.800 on those particular aspects. 99 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:54.480 You're right, No, you're absolutely right, And in fact, that's 100 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:59.560 what motivated me to go to this particular program. The 101 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:06.800 faculty there had published this seminal work called the Locomotive 102 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:10.759 Anatomy of Austrolopithicus a forensis that was published in the 103 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:14.319 American Journal of physical anthropology, and it was just a 104 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:19.839 quite exhaustive treatment of the skeletal remains attributed to this 105 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:26.199 early bipedal hominin. And it was that, you know, that 106 00:07:26.199 --> 00:07:31.519 that latent interest in bipedalism, which was probably initially seeded 107 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:36.199 by the interest in Bigfoot, you know, another bipedal primate, 108 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:40.839 that that motivated me to pursue that. And you know, 109 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:47.240 as you go along, your opportunities across your path that 110 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:50.560 that afford the chance to kind of branch out a 111 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:53.160 little bit and do some different things as well. And 112 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:55.439 so I mean along the way, for example, I got 113 00:07:56.519 --> 00:08:02.439 interested in locomotive behavior. You're in primates, both living and fossil, 114 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:08.120 much more broadly than just human bipedalism actually, and I 115 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:12.680 would note that it's a kind of a tight not 116 00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:16.560 a closed shop, but it's a it's a narrow niche 117 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:21.519 because of the rarity of hominine fossils. So really, unless 118 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:27.879 your professor was actually had access to the to the 119 00:08:27.879 --> 00:08:33.000 fossil sites and was participating in the discovery of new material, 120 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:36.159 you rarely had the chance to do any of the 121 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:40.759 initial examination, analysis, and so forth study of those fossils. 122 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:43.639 So I had to kind of come at bipedalism from 123 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:47.000 from the side door, you know, through through the mud 124 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:50.679 room and back into the up the hallway. And so 125 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:56.000 I was actually my doctoral dissertation was on terrestrial adaptations 126 00:08:56.120 --> 00:09:01.799 in in in monkeys, in African monkeys and looking at 127 00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:07.639 adaptations to terrestrial quadrupedalism, and then I could compare and 128 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:13.720 contrast that from you know, from a more theoretical practical 129 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:20.039 perspective with bipedalism. And it was actually a very effective 130 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:23.840 way because those features that were held in common were 131 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:27.519 those that were common to walking on the ground versus 132 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:31.080 clamoring and climbing in the trees. And then those that 133 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:36.919 were distinctive between bipeds and quadrupeds were those features that 134 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:41.799 were unique to the adaptations for walking on two legs. 135 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:45.320 So anyway, so along the way I dabbled in I 136 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:48.759 got interested in South American primate evolution because of the 137 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:52.960 again the opportunity of working with my mentor in the field, 138 00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:55.919 and then on another occasion, when I was doing a 139 00:09:55.960 --> 00:10:00.320 post doc at Duke, the opportunity to dabble in some 140 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:06.639 DNA sequencing and approaching the reconstruction of the phylogeny or 141 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:14.120 family tree in this case South American monkeys by way 142 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:18.919 of looking at the genes in living primates was another. 143 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:22.039 I mean, that was a very different departure for me, 144 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:25.559 But one I wasn't going to say no to my mentor, 145 00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:29.600 and two it was a great opportunity to learn a 146 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:33.480 technique that, as it turns out, I didn't end up 147 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:37.279 pursuing that further, but it placed me in a very 148 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:43.000 good position to, from a more informed stance, be able 149 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:46.879 to evaluate the publications of the studies that others were 150 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:51.000 doing in an area that it was still of real 151 00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:54.240 interest to me. That was the evolution of South American 152 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:59.320 primates as an adaptive radiation. So you know, principles of 153 00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:03.440 evolution stribology that have been applicable to a variety of 154 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:07.480 different species in different continents and so on. So it's 155 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:08.879 all it's all good. 156 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:14.000 So since he specialized somewhat in locomotive adaptations and primates 157 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:16.840 in general, that would explain why maybe you picked up 158 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:20.799 the idea of the midfoot flexibility and Krantz noticed it 159 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.159 but didn't put the terms on it per se, I think. 160 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:30.480 Right well, and he didn't characterize the features correctly, and 161 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:35.039 that was you know, a bit of a misdirection unfortunately. 162 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:38.000 But if you look in his book Bigfootprints or the 163 00:11:38.039 --> 00:11:42.519 Evidence of bigfoot Sasquatch with the renamed second edition, you 164 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:44.519 know there's a diagram in there where he tries to 165 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:48.000 account for that mid tarsal pressure ridge. He didn't, of course, 166 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:51.279 he didn't recognize it as a mid tarsal pressure ridge. 167 00:11:51.639 --> 00:11:54.799 He recognized it as a pressure ridge, but tried to 168 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:58.279 explain it as you know, a push off from the 169 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:03.480 foe foot of a very flat a very flat foot. 170 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:11.600 But he did not eliminate the the existence of an 171 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:15.200 arch entirely. He he and and this is why he 172 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:21.279 had to hypothesize that the toes were very short. You know, 173 00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:26.879 our our toes have shortened remarkably by comparison to chimpanzees 174 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:33.080 and gorillas, and even in comparison to the intermediate state, 175 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:37.679 the intermediate links found in some early bipedal hominins like 176 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:41.279 the Australia Pithesenes, which still had rather long and somewhat 177 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:44.960 curved pedal digits foot digits of their feet toes. 178 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.200 Jeff, excuse me, what about those tribes that have never 179 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:51.960 worn shoes? And you say, those guys are those big, 180 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.519 gnarly you know, spread feet and toes. 181 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:57.879 Yeah, they still have have very healthy. 182 00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:02.879 Arches though to leg so the tow short no. 183 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:05.159 No, it's it's I mean it's they appear to be 184 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:08.000 a bit longer because they are a little more extended 185 00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:12.679 and splayed, perhaps, whereas our toes are so compressed from 186 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:18.320 shoe wear. And you know, typically most modern shoe wearing humans, 187 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:22.559 their little toe is is curled on its side. Now, thankfully, 188 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:28.559 shoe wear these days is more sensible than it was 189 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:31.799 even fifty years ago. You know, the point he showed 190 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:37.679 toed dress shoes and so forth, very confining footwear. But 191 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:41.480 and even you know, cowboy boots, there's a little bit 192 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:44.519 of accommodation there because the boot that has a pointed 193 00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:47.360 toe is usually a longer toe. I mean, it was 194 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:50.240 a longer toes so you could keep it in your stirrup. Basically, 195 00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:55.879 it was the strategy nowadays that you know, these these 196 00:13:56.039 --> 00:14:01.559 fancy fashionable dress shoes have really law toes and the 197 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:06.799 pointed toes of the shoe, the pointed tips of which 198 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:10.360 extend out beyond and so they don't know the toes 199 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:15.840 aren't crushed into that little conical tip. But nevertheless, no, 200 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:22.440 it's interesting because when the Victorian era physical anthropologists struck 201 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.879 out to study all the various ethnic diversity that was 202 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:30.440 out there, they thought that they would find these poor, 203 00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:41.159 unshod native tribes would display very poor foot hygiene, foot conditions, 204 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:43.960 that they would have fallen arches, that they would have 205 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:47.240 all kinds of ailments of the joints and so forth, 206 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:52.519 because they didn't have the benefit of Western supportive footwear. 207 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:55.399 And of course what they found was just the opposite. 208 00:14:55.720 --> 00:14:59.240 That the human foot responded very well, and the arches 209 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:02.639 were healthy and were high, the toes were splayed, the 210 00:15:02.679 --> 00:15:06.320 pads pointed down towards the ground like they were supposed to. 211 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:14.519 They were very much fewer foot ailments amongst these barefoot 212 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:18.320 tribal peoples than there were amongst the Western Europeans. So 213 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:21.919 in any case, so Grover was his argument was that 214 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:26.159 Sasquatch had even shorter toes, which kind of fed into 215 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:27.679 this image that. 216 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:30.279 Was the result. 217 00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:35.440 Of the Patterson Gimlin film site footprint casts that where 218 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:37.519 the toes looked kind of like peas in the pod. 219 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:42.399 This is why not to digress too far, but this 220 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:45.440 is why Renee to Hinden had such trouble with the 221 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:50.840 tracks from the Blues is because these individuals had sometimes 222 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:56.200 less soul pad extending up under the toes, as is 223 00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:00.960 a variable trait in human populations as well. So the toes, 224 00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:07.480 in Rene's words, looked like sausages, and he used that 225 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.200 as a very disparaging description, these fake sausage toes. 226 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:13.679 Nobody likes the sausage party, that's. 227 00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:18.399 Right, Yes, a bunch of Vienna sausages. When Grover modeled 228 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:23.000 the human or the sasquatch foot, then he envisioned with 229 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:26.679 even greater mass, there would be more bending stresses on 230 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:29.960 these toes as they walked and pushed off, and so 231 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.639 the toes would naturally be even shorter than in the 232 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:36.360 human foot relative to foot length. 233 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:39.039 And that's because he was using the human foot model 234 00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:41.879 of pushing off at the heads of the metatarsals and 235 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:44.840 the toes as opposed to the entire fore part of the. 236 00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:48.679 Foot exactly exactly, you know. And so when this first, 237 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:51.480 you know, first, it kind of came to mind as 238 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:54.960 I was looking at some of these blue mountain tracks 239 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:58.559 which had fairly long toes and the footprints that I 240 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:03.600 examined at five points, I've drawn attention to that one 241 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.359 example where the toes have curled remarkably as they flexed, 242 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.240 gripping the mud as it slid, with mud extruding up 243 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:13.960 between the toes. But you get the profile of the 244 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:17.000 first and second toe, and that little toe on that 245 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:21.359 fourteen and a half inch ish foot is as long 246 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:25.200 as my pinky finger, and that's pretty, you know. So 247 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:28.359 imagine toes on that foot that are as long as 248 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:33.200 my fingers on my hand, and combine that with, you know, 249 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:36.640 the musculature of the lower extremity and something as big 250 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:41.039 as this creature probably was, and that's a powerful, grasping, 251 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:47.440 prehensile foot. So then the other thing that kind of 252 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.640 got it going was there were two other things. One 253 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:57.200 was looking at the Bosbird cripplefoot, because you know, Grover 254 00:17:57.319 --> 00:18:01.759 had actually attempted to do a skeletal construction or inferential 255 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:07.079 reconstructure outlining on that diagram and on actually etching on 256 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:11.519 the physical cast his interpretation of the of the foot, 257 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:17.039 and he had the toes very short. But as I 258 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:21.079 looked at more details of the flection creases and so forth, 259 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:24.640 and where the joints would be based on the contours 260 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:28.279 of the outline of the foot, it didn't work. It 261 00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:31.200 didn't work. You had to have a toe that was 262 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:38.359 much much longer. And then that combined with those individuals, 263 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:42.839 particularly some of the examples on the Blue Creek Mountain 264 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:49.160 trackway that had a very decided flection crease across the 265 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:52.759 ball of the foot, this split ball that has gotten 266 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:55.920 you know, various I've actually got this old diagram that 267 00:18:56.039 --> 00:19:00.640 was drawn by Ivan Sanderson where he tried to interpret 268 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:05.319 and I should publish it as just a short article 269 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:09.759 because it's of such interesting historical significance. I think as 270 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:19.240 these investigators tried to grapple with this otherwise inexplicable anatomical characteristic. 271 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:21.440 But I mean, if you look at your own at 272 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:24.720 the palm of your hand you have, and you flex 273 00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:27.279 your fingers just a little bit at the knuckle, you 274 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:31.000 see it throws up a crease across the palm of 275 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:35.519 your hand where the tissue of the palm extends beyond 276 00:19:35.559 --> 00:19:41.880 that joint up under the proximal filangies the first bones 277 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:46.440 in your fingers. Well, in the sasquatch tracks as well 278 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:51.720 as in human footprints as well human feet there's evidence 279 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:56.160 of that of an extension of that soulpad to varying 280 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:02.480 degrees up underneath that first bone. In some individuals it 281 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:06.599 goes almost up to that first interfalangeal joint. Well, when 282 00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:12.720 those toes flex, then they create a crease right across 283 00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:18.599 the soul at the mid ball at the heads of 284 00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:22.279 the metatarsals as they join the digits where your knuckles 285 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:27.000 the corresponding position of where your knuckles are in your hand. 286 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:30.039 So in the toes flex, it throws up a crease 287 00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:32.200 just like that. And in fact, if you go and 288 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:34.920 look at your birth certificate, if you have an inked footprint, 289 00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:38.799 you'll find that you, like almost every human baby has 290 00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:41.960 that flexion crease on its foot when they're born. But 291 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:46.680 as the arch develops, as the infant starts to walk, 292 00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:52.240 that soulpad fills out some more with more connective tissue 293 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:56.960 and less baby fat, and you get an elaboration of 294 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:00.920 the connective tissue under the ball of the foot at 295 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:05.119 that metatarsal falangel joint, and it fills out, and so 296 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:07.279 in most people it pretty much disappears. 297 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:12.000 Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and 298 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.319 Bogo will be right back after these messages. 299 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:21.599 God, I was in a store or something. 300 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:24.319 I remember I was standing next to the sky or whatever, 301 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:26.359 and I think we exchanged a few words or whatever, 302 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:28.880 and I noticed that he had a tattoo of these 303 00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:31.160 two feet on his arms. And I looked at him 304 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:32.839 and go, well, those aren't human. Those are clearly said, 305 00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:35.359 so you're into sasquatches. And he goes, no, those are 306 00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:38.839 my infants. Those are my baby's feet. And he wasn't 307 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:41.200 super happy with me, and he didn't exchange many more 308 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:45.480 words after that either. So but to your point, though, 309 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:49.240 and actually doctor Krantz made that same point in this 310 00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:50.599 book now that i'm thinking of it. 311 00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:52.039 About the split ball. 312 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.519 No, No, about specifically how infant human feet probably more 313 00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:58.440 strongly resemble sasquatch feet. 314 00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:03.680 Yes, yes, I think there was talking about the proportions too, particularly. 315 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:05.799 I'll have to go back and look in a long 316 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:07.319 time since I've read that, And every time I go 317 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:10.759 back and reread, I discover something else he said that 318 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:12.319 I've since forgotten. 319 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:18.119 But David Ellis's baby footprint, you authenticated that, right, Jeff. 320 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:22.640 Well, I would never claim to authenticate, but I mean it. 321 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:28.440 I'm impressed foremost by the huge heel. It's got an 322 00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:33.160 enormous heel and well developed heel pad already which is 323 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:38.000 not typical of the most human babies, and so that 324 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:43.519 that seems quite interesting in itself. So I think there's 325 00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:46.319 a really good possibility. Yeah, that's a good example. We 326 00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:50.200 have others in the collection. I have some of the 327 00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:58.640 the little feet that Paul Freeman investigated that we're well now. 328 00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:01.240 Now the prevenience is little clear to me because I 329 00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:04.279 originally thought that it was at the at d Duck 330 00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:08.599 Springs and was found just just prior to the shooting 331 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:13.000 of that footage there. But now I'm told to know 332 00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:15.480 it was a different it was an earlier segment. 333 00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:17.160 That's a different one. Yeah. 334 00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:20.680 In fact, that that footage right before the most common 335 00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:23.480 version of the Freeman footage is out now that shows 336 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:26.799 those footprints in the ground that you're referring to. I 337 00:23:28.039 --> 00:23:32.079 believe I've successfully identified those as those same juvenile prints 338 00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:34.359 that you're speaking of that were cast on Gifford Peak. 339 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:38.640 I believe it's called Gifford Peak in the previous April 340 00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:41.920 if I remember correctly, by the shape of the casts 341 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:45.519 in the ground drawing, you know, with the redit I 342 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:47.960 look looking at the copies that I have, you can 343 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:50.839 identify them as Oh, those are the same individuals those 344 00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:53.319 are the actually those are the same casts. So that 345 00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:56.200 was actually from Gifford Peak the previous ninety two I 346 00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:57.759 think in April, I remember correctly. 347 00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.519 Oh okay, all right, Well that's good to know because 348 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:04.359 with all the you know, with all the discussion about 349 00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:08.599 the subject of the Freeman video scooping up an infant 350 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:14.079 and in the parting shots there, I had often wondered 351 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:17.079 if if those were the tracks of the infant that 352 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:20.799 he had just taken note of prior to going around 353 00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:24.279 to the other side of the of the pond there. 354 00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:27.279 But definitely could be. But the videos from a few 355 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:28.119 months earlier, so. 356 00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:31.039 Right, And you're absolutely right. I mean, that's when I 357 00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:34.799 saw that video and realized that they were that he 358 00:24:34.839 --> 00:24:38.359 had taken casts. That was the first thing I did, 359 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:40.079 is it got the cast out and compared to the video, 360 00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:43.119 and you're you're absolutely right, they are in fact from 361 00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:48.039 that sequence, which is always nice to establish, you know, 362 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:52.440 to have documentation of the footprints in the ground and 363 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.680 swill as the casts resulting casts. 364 00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:58.960 So well, speaking of anatomy, I thought, I thought we 365 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:02.319 could go down a couple other rabbit holes here. Let's 366 00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:05.839 talk about handprints for a minute and Sasquatch handprints, of 367 00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:09.000 course a different than Sasquatch hands are different than humans 368 00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:11.480 in a lot of ways. Shorter, stubby, your looking fingers, 369 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:14.160 because the webbing is extended, the thumb is in a 370 00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:17.200 different position. It doesn't flex across the palm like ours. 371 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:22.880 It goes more directly into the ground. Because of these differences, 372 00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:27.880 what behavioral differences can we infer? 373 00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:31.880 That's a great point because you know, this often comes 374 00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:39.000 up when people are suggesting that the Sasquatch are extremely intelligent. 375 00:25:39.079 --> 00:25:41.480 You know, they must be in order to avoid us. 376 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:43.799 And then of course there are others who appeal to 377 00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:48.119 other types of experiences to suggest that there's something else 378 00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:54.319 going on that would indicate a higher level of mental ability, 379 00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:58.799 if not human. But they're not quote just aids. 380 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:01.799 Well, you know, let's since you open the intelligence thing 381 00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:03.319 and we're going to be talking about the hands, let's 382 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:06.559 also throw in the cranium size and shape into this 383 00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:09.240 discussion so we can have a more well rounded discussion 384 00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:10.279 about this, please. 385 00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:18.279 Okay, Well, in that regard not being privy to first 386 00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:25.240 hand visual observations of Sasquatch cranial proportions, you know, I 387 00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:28.119 can't say a lot, but I've come to a point 388 00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:31.680 where I'm absolutely convinced about the credibility of the Patterson 389 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:36.920 Gimlin film, and as such, that is admittedly a sample 390 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:41.920 of one, but nevertheless it is a sasquatch. And what 391 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:45.640 can we learn from looking at it? And one of 392 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.119 the things that just blows me away is when you 393 00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:56.559 take a robust australopithesene like paranthropists paranthropist boise eye, which 394 00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:02.119 existed in East Africa about to one point eight million two, 395 00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:05.640 about eight hundred thousand years ago in the known fossil 396 00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:09.640 record anyway, and it stood about five to five and 397 00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:16.920 a half feet tall. Was robust. When we say robust austrolipithesenes, 398 00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:21.880 we're talking about their facial cranial adaptations, these heavy jaws, 399 00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:27.079 extremely enlarged molars and premolars and reduced canines for a 400 00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:30.079 more side freeing up a side to side what they 401 00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:35.200