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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekaana Show. Thomas,

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let's finish out this police series. What do you want

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to talk about today? I think Joseph Wombas on the menu.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I I marked out Joseph Wamba for a dedicated

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episode because I think he's important. I he wasn't. He's

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still alive. I think he's got to be very elgerly

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not what he's got to be on ninety. He was

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very much a documentarian though, of the period in which

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we're talking about, when it was in when police modern

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policing was very much in transition, and when arguably it

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was a kind of a zenith in terms of you know,

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it's administrative clout and it's it being respected kind of

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as an essential institution of government. And Wamba was an

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East Coast guy. He came from Pittsburgh. He was German

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Irish and his dad was a policeman out there. But

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Wamba he joined LAPD when he got out of the

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Marine Corps as a young guy. And I think he

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started about fourteen years as a police you know, from

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nineteen sixty until the mid seventies. But for context, like

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a lot of dudes would travel, they'd relocate to la

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to join LAPD. LAPD was like the top of policing

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and one of the things I was peculiar about nineteen

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ninety one and the Rodney King situation, Like, it wasn't

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peculiar that that happened. It wasn't peculiar unfortunately that it

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jumped off into this race war. But a lot of

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people don't understand that Unlike Chicago especially, but also like unlike,

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I mean, our police department, we got like a thug

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police department, you know, like we really do. I grudgingly

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like Chicago feed for reasons something I've got like a

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complicated relationship with them, but they never had. They always

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had like a dirty fucking reputation. And New York, you know,

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they always had a reputation as being like corrupted by

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like ward bosses and like mafia politics and stuff. But

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like LA it was considered to be this like impeccable

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and peccay professional police force, and they had a rep

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for like not being quote unquote racist, and like they

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actually had a rep for you know, being you know,

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very progressive according to the relevant metrics. I don't like

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that term, but you know, just people understand what I mean,

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I'm sure. So the fact that this like kind of

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took a nose dive in the early nineties is interesting,

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you know, but that's Wambach started writing when he was

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a cop, and his first his first book was The

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New Centurions, which is very much kind of like a probe.

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It's almost like the top gun of like the police Department,

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you know, it's about like hero cops doing this crazy stuff,

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like a lot of in the centerpiece is kind of

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the watch Riots. And then he wrote The Blue Night,

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which was very much in that vein. But then like

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when he when he realized he could get paid as

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an author and his books were actually moving at volume,

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you know, he retired away from the police to to write,

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and then he wrote The Choir Boys, which is like

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this kind of savage takedown of l EPD, you know,

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like people get maried to Catch twenty two, which I

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think is an overrated book. But it's like way nastier

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than that. It reminds me of the Short Timers. It's

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like really really nasty, but but not in a way

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that's unduly tunitive. I think it accurately reflects the eraror

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I mean, it was before my time. You know, my

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civic memory begins in the very early eighties. I don't

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remember the seventies. I was born in the seventies, but

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in between that kind of trilogy of fiction books, like

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later we started writing kind of like hard boiled detective stuff.

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But in between nat he wrote this seminal. It's probably

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the it's probably the seminal true crime book after in

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Cold Blood. It was It's the Onion Field, which was

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a horrible case. And uh Wamba was a was a

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police when this incident happened. And uh, I'll get into

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the details of it in a minute, but it these

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two police officers, officers were abducted and murdered, or one

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of them was murdered, the other one got away. The

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guy got away. It's almost like he endured a fate

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worse than had he been murdered, you know. But that

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and the film version, they made a TV movie out

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of it, which one of which one of was one

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of James Woods's first roles. And James Woods, the guy

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he plays the cop killer was this guy named Gregory

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Ulis Powell. Like if that's not like an old school

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comic name, I don't know what it is. But Woods,

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they looked exactly like to do. It was like uncanny,

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and you know it. Uh Parker was a l E

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PD chief when this went down, and Parker for all

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of his kind of for all the good things we

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can say about him, he really really missed manage the

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aftermath of this situation. And then it's interesting, how, you know,

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despite the I'm the first one to suggest that it's ridiculous,

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and people talk about how, oh, in the pre Kennedy

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assassination era that we lived in simple times or something

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like America was totally fucking flu are There were no

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simple times, especially when you're talking about America, which is

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like literally born out of like race war, Like that's ridiculous. However,

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there was a weird randomness to violence and particularly homicide

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that very suddenly jumped off and endured in absolute earnest

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for about thirty five years, and then very very suddenly stopped.

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I kind of think that like the last incident of

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that cycle in terms of perception and media narrative as

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Columbine okay, and like it just like dropped off suddenly,

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like nobody can explain it, you know, like the freakonomics

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types that books kind of fall off would thankfully because

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it's it's an idiotic book. But the refrain of these

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kinds of lefty progressives was, oh well, roe V Wade

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meant that you know, unwanted children weren't born, so all

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these kinds of social pathologies that that would have afflicted

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this this population that didn't exist. You know, we're absent.

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So you know that that's why. That doesn't explain why,

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and it's not you know, there there were many population

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booms to immigration and only to other things, particularly globalized,

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and this hasn't like duplicated like it doesn't make any sense.

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It's it's I mean, I have my own thoughts on

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why these kinds of things happened that, but it's probably

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you know, mostly probably dismissed it as overly metaphysical because

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it may, like the Onion Field case, it very much

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like like even more so than the Kidy Genevis incident,

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which is which has kind of been like mythologized and

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there's a lot of cap around what actually happened there.

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You know, that was that poor woman who was assaulted

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and and like stabbed to death in front of her

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neighbors and nobody did anything and nobody called it in.

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I mean, granted that was particularly awful because she was

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truly like a defenseless female, But the Onion Field situations

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did more brazen because like these guys they just like

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murdered a cop and like the some Keeples didn't do

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back that. I mean, yeah, there's the public enemy's era,

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Like some decades before guys would like shoot it out

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with the police, but it's like straight up in cold

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blood like murdering a cop, like shooting him in the face,

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when you didn't have to like that that really.

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Speaker 1: Like, I grew up with a lot a lot of

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guys who went NYPD, and when you talk to them

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about people who kill cops, they say, the reason they

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take it more seriously is because if they're willing to

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kill a cop, they're willing to kill anyone.

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Speaker 2: And Powell was a really creepy guy, Like he his rampy.

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He was just like really real sad sack kind of

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loser hood guy who went by Jimmy Youngblood like forty names.

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I think it's his birth name of Jimmy Lee Smith,

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but he went by Jimmy Youngblood and Jimmy Youngblood. He

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was a heroin addict and he'd been spending basically his

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entire life in prison, but it was for bullshit, you know,

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like stealing radios and like breaking into cars and like

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robbing people said he could get dope, you know, and

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Powell really kind of like roped them into this like

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psycho stuff, you know. And that's not just a that's

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not just the cop out at trial. Those dynamic they

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really are dynamics like that. There's another thing as like

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a partnership of equals between rappies who do bizarre violent crimes.

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It's always and Powell too. He he didn't have a

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traditional criminal background, Like he was raised in some crummy

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suburb of Detroit. His father was a musician, the Satinoran musician,

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and they never had any money. But Powell ran away

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from the home when he was fourteen or fifteen, and

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he took up this kind of fake itinerant priest who

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who molested him and then totally screwed him up. So

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after that, Powell would like he periodically decided he was gay,

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even though like by the time he was arrested, he

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had like a wife who was pregnant with his kid.

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But then Powell goes to prison, first it was a

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death row, and then he got manumitted, you know when

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when the Supreme Court struck down the death penalty, you know,

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and he got in typeo California fashion. There was a

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couple of retrials, but he ended up serving a life

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without parole. Okay, he had a couple of parole hearings

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decades on, but I mean there was no chance he

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was gonna get a conditional release. But when he was

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behind the wall, he decided he was like full on

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gay and he started like writing for like gay rights

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publications and stuff. It was like an early example of

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of like the gay movement having horrible optics because in

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one of their rags that I guess was pretty widely

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going in the West Coast in the seventies and eighties,

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it's like, what do you have this like cop killer

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like drawing little cartoons and writing for you so then

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you know, something like pulled that stuff. But you know,

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just like a bizarre guy. And he when he when

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he committed this murder, like apparently as a young guy,

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like he did a bunch of he did a bunch

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of felony stints for armed robbery because his thing was

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like robbing liquor stores and grocery stores. Like he didn't

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have a dope hab or anything. He was like doing

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this stuff. And he'd apparently had brain surgery that's it's

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now believed was botched and like he it basically like

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fried his his impulse control. And I think today with

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you know, modern imaging equipment and stuff, it would probably

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be clear that this guy's brain was a wreck, like

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his physical brain because his criminal career doesn't make any sense.

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And also just like the the sexual stuff like doesn't

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really track. And but he he uh, Jimmy young Blood

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was on was on parole and he was in this

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program before method on was widely prescribed and before stuff

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like sub attacks. There's this really strange compound that that

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apparently had really deleterious effects on internal organ and things

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that they were trying to give to heroin addicts because

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it was kind of like the shot the alcoholics, but

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it didn't really work. But young Blood was conditionally paroled

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and he was he was able to go to this

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medical center for parole league or they shoot him up

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with this with this compound and that supposedly would would

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cure him of his of his habit. And he ran

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across Powell because Powell, along other bizarre things like Powell

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was married to a white woman and his whole family

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was white. But Powell basically exclusively hung around black folks,

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which is weird. I mean, it's weird today, it was

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really weird in nineteen sixty. But that's how young Blood

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ran into him. And uh he was pulling a heist

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with this degenerate alcohol like like a hobo who was

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a part time like shoe shnine Man and Powell somehow,

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I mean presuma. It was not really clear, but presumably

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it was because young Blood needed money for dope that

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he got. He got sucked into this nonsense of like

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pulling these like hindsight heights, like liquor stores and stuff

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or what amounts to chump change. So their pass crossed

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with these cops because one night, uh Paulla young Blood

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recruising uh Los Angeles, like presumably they were casing, you know,

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a place to rob. You know, they had this They

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had this ancient nineteen forty six Ford coop, you know,

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like an old gangster movies. You know, like it's it's

238
00:15:07,039 --> 00:15:12,039
got that like sloped trunk and stuff, you know, if

239
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:17,360
you know what old Fords look like. And these two police,

240
00:15:17,559 --> 00:15:22,159
uh Ian Campbell and Carl Hedinger. Campbell was the guy

241
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,759
woended up getting blasted and murdered. And you know, both

242
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,519
young guys. Campbell, if I memory series, he was a

243
00:15:29,559 --> 00:15:33,000
Korean War vet, and he was the older man. He

244
00:15:33,159 --> 00:15:36,600
was a Scottish type guy like he played He literally

245
00:15:36,639 --> 00:15:42,559
played bagpipes, you know, like a real heroic guy, you know.

246
00:15:42,639 --> 00:15:45,720
And Heading Gerr obviously looked up to him. But they

247
00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:49,480
were they were assigned to this March ninth, sixty three.

248
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,960
They were assigned to his duty and you know, in

249
00:15:54,039 --> 00:15:58,240
playing clothes like you know, basically aggressive policing of the

250
00:15:58,279 --> 00:16:01,480
old type, you know, and before surveillance tech, like you

251
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:08,679
basically just like look out for you know, possible possible

252
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,600
subjects like you know, like in like on the make

253
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,720
or whatever. You know. So they pulled over young Blood

254
00:16:14,759 --> 00:16:19,960
and Powell, and Powell just suddenly like drew down on him.

255
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,000
You got the jump on him on Campbell. And this

256
00:16:24,159 --> 00:16:29,320
is key heading your uh had drawn his service revolver

257
00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:36,120
and he refused to give it up until Campbell said

258
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,759
he's got a gun on me, meaning Powell, you know,

259
00:16:38,799 --> 00:16:44,679
give up your weapon. And l EPD doctrine at that

260
00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:47,279
time was that if somebody gets to drop on you,

261
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,039
give up your weapon, because nobody's going to kill a

262
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,720
cop for no reason, you know, like that was the thinking.

263
00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:01,919
So then uh, Powell, he gets in the front seat,

264
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,200
he orders Campbell to drive his car. Young Blood gets

265
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,519
in the back with Headinger, and I think young Blood

266
00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:12,440
had a sowd off shotgun, you know. So then Powell

267
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,359
was just like drive, you know, and Campbell's like where

268
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,759
are we going? And Powell's like, just drive, you know.

269
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:21,839
He's like, I'm not gonna hurt you guys, but you

270
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,440
just got to drive. We got to get out of

271
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,680
the city. So he drives them all the way to

272
00:17:26,759 --> 00:17:32,359
Baker's Field and he stops. Finally, he orders Campbell to stop,

273
00:17:32,559 --> 00:17:38,480
literally in his onion field. And Headinger said that like

274
00:17:38,519 --> 00:17:40,640
even before they stop, he's like it was pitch blay.

275
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,000
You couldn't see anything, but he's like the overwhelming odor

276
00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:46,599
of onions. He's like it was making everybody's eyes tear up,

277
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:56,440
like it was surreal. So they stop. Powell orders everybody out,

278
00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,359
and then, according to both young Blood and head injure,

279
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,119
Paul look Campbell in the face and he says, are

280
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:08,119
you familiar with the Lindenberg Law. It's not clear what

281
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,279
he meant by that, like, presumably he was referring to

282
00:18:11,319 --> 00:18:15,880
the federal kidnapping statue, which kind of colopially I guess

283
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,000
would have been the Lindenberg Law, And that was a

284
00:18:20,039 --> 00:18:23,680
big deal because after Lindberg Baby, that's another horrible case.

285
00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:28,400
After the after Lindberg's son, infant son was killed by

286
00:18:28,759 --> 00:18:34,000
ransom kidnappers, you know, a federal statute was passed that

287
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,319
you know, imposed there was no there was no open

288
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,759
ended federal death penalty, but kidnapping for ransdom became a

289
00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:45,240
death penalty offense after that. So presumably in like the

290
00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:51,559
warped and like mangled mind of Powell, his notion was,

291
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,960
I don't want to waste you, but I have to

292
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,839
now because I kidnapped you, which makes zero sense. Then

293
00:18:57,839 --> 00:19:01,079
he doesn't blast him in the face. He like I

294
00:19:01,279 --> 00:19:04,000
think he had like a twenty five automatic. He just

295
00:19:04,039 --> 00:19:12,680
like emptied the magazine into him. And Headinger related he

296
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:14,799
heard somebody screaming, and he's like, at first out it

297
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:16,960
was Campbell, but then I realized it was young Blood.

298
00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,880
Like young Blood just like freaked out and presumable that's

299
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,400
would save it Heading's life because young Blood was like

300
00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:28,559
panic panicking, and he didn't blast him. So Hedinger ran

301
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:36,480
for literally four miles and there's some kid, some uh,

302
00:19:36,519 --> 00:19:39,960
some black kid who was getting an early start, like

303
00:19:40,039 --> 00:19:42,160
some farm hand, you know, like three in the morning,

304
00:19:42,839 --> 00:19:46,359
you know. Hading told him what happened, and then you know,

305
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:52,000
he he called for help and everything. But the way

306
00:19:52,039 --> 00:19:57,720
that dealt with Headinger, Parker forced him to address like

307
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,799
police academy classes. He worst into a dress like squad

308
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:07,519
rooms full of street officers, like basically reliving what had

309
00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:11,319
happened to him and then having the watch commander say, see,

310
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,079
this is why you never give up your weapon. You'll

311
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,759
end up like him. I mean, like basically torturing the guy,

312
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,559
you know, under auspices. I mean, I think Parker was

313
00:20:20,599 --> 00:20:22,240
that of too, so I think he didn't realize what

314
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,839
was wrong with this. And then he put him on

315
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:30,160
coach of duty as his personal driver, and Headingers predictively

316
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,319
started losing his mind, you know, and he didn't know

317
00:20:33,319 --> 00:20:35,680
what it handlecks. On the one hand, everybody like pitied him.

318
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,680
On the other hand, they treated him with this kind

319
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,480
of like haughty contempt, like it was some kind of

320
00:20:39,519 --> 00:20:44,680
pussy or something, and he came to a very sad end.

321
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:51,079
He ended up getting dismissed from the police department because

322
00:20:51,079 --> 00:20:54,519
he was he was doing bizarre things, including like shoplifting

323
00:20:54,599 --> 00:20:59,279
worthless items, and it was obvious that and he said,

324
00:20:59,319 --> 00:21:01,759
like the guy like blew a gasket, I mean, obviously

325
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,440
not to be flippant or mean about it. You know.

326
00:21:05,559 --> 00:21:08,359
He ended up he ended up working as a gardener

327
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,880
and then like drinking himself to death at middle age,

328
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,720
like in the nineties. You know, this is like a

329
00:21:13,759 --> 00:21:18,720
horrible situation, but that one of the one of the

330
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,039
this maybe huge impact on the public conscousness, but particularly

331
00:21:23,079 --> 00:21:26,119
police and the cultural policing. It was already going in

332
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,559
kind of a strange direction anyway, okay, and that that's

333
00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:34,319
really what that's really kind of what put over the

334
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,680
idea of like paramilitarized policing, you know, and that stuff

335
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,880
like the Watts riots like solidified it. You know, like

336
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,799
for context, during Watts there there was like snipers taking

337
00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:50,839
up positions to like blast cops. You know, it was

338
00:21:50,839 --> 00:21:56,720
like urban combat, you know. And Wallaba makes a big

339
00:21:56,759 --> 00:22:02,279
deal in the Choir Boys. By the nineteen seventies, a

340
00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:06,680
lot of police departments, including l A p D, had

341
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,279
adopted the commander rank, and he thought that this was

342
00:22:10,319 --> 00:22:15,000
really bad, you know, and it's the subjects to the

343
00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:17,920
choir Boys. It opens up in Vietnam and two of

344
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,279
the two of the cops, two of the choir boys,

345
00:22:21,599 --> 00:22:26,039
they're they have this terrifying experience for their hiding from

346
00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:29,759
the North Vietnamese Army in a cave like outside of Kusan.

347
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,960
You know, the one man is a panic attack. And

348
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,319
and then years later, you know, like five years later,

349
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:44,200
when he's on duty with UH with l A p D.

350
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,799
You know, he has a flashback and he and and

351
00:22:47,839 --> 00:22:50,759
there's a horrible outcome because he ends up blasting this

352
00:22:50,759 --> 00:22:55,799
this unarmed civilian and ruining his life. But uh, all

353
00:22:55,839 --> 00:22:58,759
the choir boys who are the subject of the book,

354
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,160
they're all these kind of like these kind of like

355
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,519
prestige characters of different archetypes that were on LAPD at

356
00:23:05,559 --> 00:23:08,039
the time. But all of them except got of the

357
00:23:08,079 --> 00:23:11,400
old head he's around fifty, who's still a beat cop

358
00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:16,640
just because that's where he's comfortable. They're all Vietnam vets,

359
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,039
and they're all unhinged. They've all got like a head

360
00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:26,079
full of war and they're of LAPD. They act that

361
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,400
we sought out guys who had experienced and non that

362
00:23:29,559 --> 00:23:34,720
wasn't accidental. Some of that went on here too. I'm

363
00:23:34,759 --> 00:23:36,960
not even saying that was misguided on his own terrors,

364
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,079
but the way I questioned some of the motives for that,

365
00:23:42,079 --> 00:23:46,480
Like John Burge, you know, who was a fucking menace

366
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:51,720
like here. You know, Birg tortured a bunch of confessions

367
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,839
out of people like and a lot of these guys

368
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,400
like hadn't done anything. But Burge Bird was an MP

369
00:23:58,559 --> 00:24:00,960
and NOM but he was in and all kinds of

370
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,759
strange stuff, and he had a bronze star with the

371
00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:09,200
Valor device. He'd been in heavy action. But he also

372
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,440
a lot of his duty involved enhanced interrogation of Viet

373
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,599
Cong suspects. You know. So this man had a skill

374
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,920
set that for the nineteen seventies police department, it was

375
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,000
very much in demand. You know. And while I've always

376
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:28,079
makes the point in the Choir Boys especially, but in

377
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,119
a lot of his other stuff, you know, he's like

378
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:36,400
a police department's basically a political administration. He's like, you

379
00:24:36,599 --> 00:24:40,279
have it. It has to be visible because the voters want.

380
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,039
The voters want to be able to call somebody if

381
00:24:43,079 --> 00:24:45,400
not to be crassed, like their kids walking to school.

382
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,160
And he runs about some guy jaking off from the

383
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,480
bushes or something. Okay, they want to believe it's some

384
00:24:50,599 --> 00:24:55,559
kind of like formal recourse for that. But like the

385
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,680
police can't solve sociological problems, like the police can't solve

386
00:24:59,759 --> 00:25:02,799
like race war. The police can't make people like not

387
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,640
use drugs, like this isn't something. This isn't like these

388
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,279
aren't criminal matters. I mean, they can become that way,

389
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,680
but it's like Wallaba's all points. So in the choir Boys, basically,

390
00:25:13,759 --> 00:25:17,480
these guys have an impossible job and some of them

391
00:25:17,519 --> 00:25:19,359
are just like goons who want their name to ring

392
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,960
out and they just like to fuck people up. Like

393
00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:25,319
some of them are like uh like nineteen sixties idealist

394
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,160
boomer types who think that like, oh well, you know,

395
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:29,519
if you can if you can bring some kind of

396
00:25:29,519 --> 00:25:36,079
diplomacy and understanding, you know, the officer civilian interaction, then

397
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,920
then we can have like a more peaceable community. But

398
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,640
it's like that's not the police's job either, you know.

399
00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:46,079
So the recurring motif and wlahah blah stuff is like

400
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,720
cops who commit suicide because they just become like they

401
00:25:49,799 --> 00:25:53,160
just like crash the fuck out, and especially them, that's

402
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,799
the very real thing, you know, and it's some wallah blah.

403
00:25:56,799 --> 00:26:01,279
Makes the point, you know, in the sixties or seventies

404
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,200
when all this crazy stuff was happening, even if you

405
00:26:05,319 --> 00:26:07,880
survive twenty years as like a beat cop, like you

406
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,920
don't get shot, you don't get like maned. You know,

407
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,880
you get like your full pension. He's like, oh you fine,

408
00:26:13,079 --> 00:26:15,720
now I'm like retired, but I'm like forty one years old.

409
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:17,599
Like what I'm gonna do is with my life. And

410
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,640
a lot of these guys were divorced by then. They

411
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,440
got a drinking problem. It's like something like sit around

412
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,279
my house and like drink a lot. Like how many

413
00:26:24,319 --> 00:26:28,759
fishing trips can you possibly take? Like it's not it's

414
00:26:28,799 --> 00:26:31,519
not being like a big city cop is not a

415
00:26:31,519 --> 00:26:33,799
good way to go through life, you know, And like

416
00:26:33,839 --> 00:26:37,440
I'm not, I'm not. I'm like trashing guys whose life

417
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,839
shook out that way. Like there's a lot of polices

418
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,039
who like follow my content and stuff and that's great,

419
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:50,720
but you know, while I'm like he basically uh, there's

420
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,160
always a stock character in his novels or something like

421
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,559
older guy who like helps rookies understand I just survive

422
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,680
like in the deep hood, and how you can like

423
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,480
make it to twenty years. But then these guys like

424
00:27:01,559 --> 00:27:05,319
all like you know, three months after they retire, everybody

425
00:27:05,319 --> 00:27:07,799
gets a word like they blew their fucking brains out.

426
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,039
And while boy he kind of would hint around it

427
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,640
because he, you know, was like a reserved guy, but

428
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,279
you know, he said, there's a reason why, like I

429
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,559
left the police force immediately when I started making money

430
00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:23,440
from writings. He's like, I was gonna end up like

431
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:28,519
one of those guys, you know. And that's that's pretty

432
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:35,279
that's pretty that's pretty bleak, man. But uh, the what's

433
00:27:35,319 --> 00:27:38,680
significant too is is what like a microcosm it is

434
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:44,920
of of them versus now, you know, And that's one

435
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,000
of one of the reasons for I mean, obviously the

436
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:57,119
these these these horrible people in government and and these

437
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,000
indio radicals and and others show them not be named.

438
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,440
You know, they obviously sees on stuff like like like

439
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,359
the George Floyd situation, you know, as a kind of

440
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,720
detonation strategy. But the reason why they're able to do

441
00:28:11,799 --> 00:28:18,200
that is because policing as it's been conceptualized really from

442
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,960
the mid twentieth century onward, like that's that's that's dead,

443
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,680
like that's obsolescent, you know, like it doesn't you know,

444
00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:29,359
if we've said what Alma said about it being basically

445
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,480
a political function and a kind of like sociological theater,

446
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,240
like people don't respond to it that way anymore. And

447
00:28:36,319 --> 00:28:38,319
also like do you like what do your body camps?

448
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,480
Changes everything, because like what cops do is such that

449
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,519
like I'm not I'm not talking about like Navy type police,

450
00:28:46,559 --> 00:28:50,000
but like Chicago PD, you're like l EPD, You're like NYPD.

451
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,000
Like the kind of stuff these guys do, you know,

452
00:28:54,079 --> 00:29:00,400
like basically, uh, it basically evolves like breaking down like

453
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,279
street dudes who otherwise would be cavalier in the way

454
00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:07,319
that they apply violence. And you can't have it because

455
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:13,759
you know, as a sovereign government, local or otherwise can't

456
00:29:13,799 --> 00:29:19,960
allow that and still retain credibility. But also there's got

457
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:25,599
to be an understanding that if you transgress certain parameters,

458
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,960
like you're gonna get broken down and you can't. That

459
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,799
doesn't work in the air of the panopticon. But it's

460
00:29:32,839 --> 00:29:36,240
also people just kind of move differently, like the whole

461
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,799
One of the one of the recurring motifs, especially in

462
00:29:41,839 --> 00:29:44,599
the Choir Boys, is like when these cops answer calls

463
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,839
like in the deep hood, it's like you're all by yourself.

464
00:29:49,359 --> 00:29:52,279
And even and until the eighties, squad cars were called

465
00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:54,880
cold radio cars because cop didn't even have a radio

466
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,799
on their person. So basically like you go through a

467
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,200
door if your partnered with somebody, and police armers deployed,

468
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:05,519
how they deployed like varied by region and by department,

469
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,279
but at best you're gonna have like one guy with

470
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,559
you and the most firepower you're gonna have as a

471
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,200
twelve gauge, which is a great weapon, don't get me wrong,

472
00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:18,759
But that doesn't if you're if there's arna men five

473
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,960
D but like that that doesn't do anything, you know.

474
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,359
So while I'm talking about like how scary it was

475
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,519
to like have to like breach doors by yourself, you know,

476
00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:33,200
but now I mean not only the cops have body

477
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,319
cams and most police farmers is like literally like a

478
00:30:35,359 --> 00:30:38,720
live feed like back to where they're deployed from. You know,

479
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,200
they're in constant content with a radio on their person,

480
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,720
like deployment patterns of such of just like total situational awareness.

481
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,440
But also like things are just like different, like you

482
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,240
wouldn't there's not the same potential for lawlessness. It's like

483
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,119
when lawlessness does jump off, it's very punctuated and it's

484
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:01,599
very scaled and it's very bad. But they're never a

485
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,640
situation like the Bronx was big in the eighties, or

486
00:31:06,759 --> 00:31:10,599
like Wrigleyville was in the early eighties when it was

487
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,559
like a shithole where there's just kind of like guys

488
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,559
moving around and not like praying on random people, you know,

489
00:31:17,599 --> 00:31:19,720
because they want money you're there or something like that

490
00:31:19,759 --> 00:31:23,200
doesn't happen anymore, you know, not not because not not

491
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,279
because people have become less sinnion or something. But it

492
00:31:27,359 --> 00:31:30,480
this is not how you move anymore. If if you're

493
00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:34,200
if you if you're on the make like that, you

494
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,960
know so and also too like it like people people

495
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,079
are hip to the fact they're like always on camera,

496
00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:42,359
you know, like if you're gonna do I mean, don't

497
00:31:42,359 --> 00:31:44,839
get me wrong, Like horrible stuff does still happen, and

498
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,799
there's like a way you can do it where you're

499
00:31:47,559 --> 00:31:51,400
you're out of sight of the electric guy. But it's

500
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,319
it's it's different and people's living patterns too, like you

501
00:31:55,359 --> 00:32:01,799
don't have you don't have situations anymore where people where

502
00:32:01,839 --> 00:32:04,519
we've got like thousands and thousands of people that are

503
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,799
kind of like trapped in some urban environment that's failing,

504
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,519
and like even like the deep hood that's its own thing,

505
00:32:11,599 --> 00:32:15,599
but it's different, and it's kind of like bandit country,

506
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,720
you know. It's the people there aren't like actively engaging

507
00:32:19,759 --> 00:32:22,000
with the police and wanting the police to kind of

508
00:32:22,039 --> 00:32:28,880
help quash these anti social instincts that you know, periodically

509
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,200
flare up and stuff. So I maintain that like modern

510
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,480
policing is dying and you and in the traditional sense,

511
00:32:36,839 --> 00:32:40,119
the traditionally understood sense of what the job entailed. It's

512
00:32:40,119 --> 00:32:43,160
not like illegal for cops to move that way. So

513
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,079
I mean, this isn't you know. And I know that

514
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,240
especially a lot of older folks. And I'm not trashing

515
00:32:52,319 --> 00:32:57,400
older folks. I am one. They have this idea like, well,

516
00:32:57,759 --> 00:32:59,799
we just need to take the gloves off and quote

517
00:32:59,839 --> 00:33:02,119
what cop do their job? Like they don't understand what

518
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,599
I'm talking about. Like even if like you told cops

519
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,039
like look you can you can crack heads and like

520
00:33:09,519 --> 00:33:12,200
break people the fuck down, like it's nineteen eighty nine,

521
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,440
that wouldn't resolve the problem and the public wouldn't like that.

522
00:33:18,079 --> 00:33:20,559
I don't think like that wouldn't make them, They wouldn't

523
00:33:20,559 --> 00:33:23,519
make boogies feel safe. That's not what they want. They

524
00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:25,440
don't want the police to go away. They're full of

525
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,559
shit when they claim that on Facebook or whatever. But

526
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,960
what I just describe like isn't what they want. But

527
00:33:32,079 --> 00:33:39,279
also I get you know it it uh I don't

528
00:33:39,319 --> 00:33:43,559
think that. Uh I, I don't. I don't think the

529
00:33:44,359 --> 00:33:49,519
will would be there anyway because it's too open ended,

530
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:52,480
if that makes any sense.

531
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: And uh.

532
00:33:54,519 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: I think too. You know, this is not just for

533
00:33:58,079 --> 00:34:00,839
political reasons, but this has been the running for a minute.

534
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,000
And you know, guys like Thomas Shit, I'm used to

535
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,319
write about this in the nineties and he got He

536
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,519
and those like him got something's wrong, but he got

537
00:34:08,519 --> 00:34:16,760
something's right. And the privatization of armed force as well

538
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,639
as protective services, that's very much like a real thing.

539
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,000
And that's increasingly gonna become the face of policing and

540
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,039
and and in in fifty years. I don't think you're

541
00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:30,320
gonna have a regular police department. Like, yeah, obviously, if

542
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,119
you go you go kill your neighbor, you know somebody

543
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:36,960
is going to show up. Somebody there was somebody who's

544
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,800
gonna be heavily armed. They're gonna like take you into

545
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,360
custody and pull you before I judge. But it's not

546
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,800
gonna be we have guys in these like blue and

547
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,000
white cars driving around like looking for people who are

548
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,159
fucking up or something like. That's done. It's not gonna

549
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:59,320
happen anymore, you know. And even even here where things

550
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,559
are like a lot more draconian and we're kind of

551
00:35:02,599 --> 00:35:05,599
like in a time work here, like police are like

552
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,920
way way less like aggressive in terms of what kind

553
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,920
of conduct, though they'll they'll forro bracelets on you for

554
00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:21,840
you know, and that's not that that's not just uh,

555
00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:25,039
and then that's enduring even now that like you've got

556
00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:27,000
we've got like a very like law and order president

557
00:35:27,039 --> 00:35:30,159
denewable office. It's not it's not as the pendulum swinging

558
00:35:30,199 --> 00:35:35,119
back or something like. It's like sociologically, the things have

559
00:35:35,159 --> 00:35:41,079
become such that what we're describing is is no longer viable.

560
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:48,920
And you know, I uh, it's it should it should

561
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,840
seem strange to people anyway, like whether you live in

562
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:58,159
the city or the country. This idea of we're gonna

563
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,400
hire a bunch of young military age males who aren't

564
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,360
from your community who you have no idea who these

565
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,960
guys are. They're gonna be heavily armed and just kind

566
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,719
of like tell you to do things and lay the

567
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,280
hammer down on people when they decide to crimes underway,

568
00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:19,800
that's like really really really invasive, you know, and there's

569
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:24,440
conditions where you've got to sacrifice certain freedom of movement

570
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,440
and liberty because otherwise there can't be public order. And

571
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,800
that's absolutely the way things were in the mid twentieth century.

572
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:35,000
Things aren't like that anymore, you know. And one of

573
00:36:35,039 --> 00:36:37,519
the things that underlies the fact that like the gun

574
00:36:37,559 --> 00:36:40,320
control lobby you finally like gave up. Like it's not

575
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,400
just because the issue became like a big loser politically,

576
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,480
like that put that mistakes the cause or the effect,

577
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,400
Like that issue became a loser because frankly, if you

578
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,400
don't want aggressive policing, you you basically have to accept

579
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,239
the fact that people that America is going to be

580
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,400
armed to the teeth. Know, And it's really interesting, very abruptly,

581
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,239
everybody just kind of capitulated on that issue. You know,

582
00:37:08,199 --> 00:37:12,039
I realized it's still token efforts and bullshit, you know,

583
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,000
and meaningless derivations, you know, like, oh, this is an

584
00:37:17,039 --> 00:37:19,559
assault weapons, so it's bad and it's banned, even though

585
00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:23,639
assault weapons don't exist, or there's you know ways locally

586
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,599
like here you can sort of like bury people under

587
00:37:26,639 --> 00:37:31,639
paperwork to deprive them of their Second Amendment rights in

588
00:37:31,679 --> 00:37:35,599
a defecto kind of way, while still you know, complying

589
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:42,559
with the litter of the law. But you know, the

590
00:37:42,599 --> 00:37:48,000
circumstances I'm always describing about deliberate communities, you know, quitting

591
00:37:48,039 --> 00:37:52,119
the the social engineering regime, which is already happening. But

592
00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:54,599
in those deliberate communities, you're not gonna have just like

593
00:37:54,599 --> 00:37:57,760
a random guys from other places coming in to police them.

594
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,719
People aren't going to tolerate that anymore, you know, Like

595
00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:05,480
it's not gonna tolerate like like random white guys doing that.

596
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,559
Like we're not gonna tolerate some like random fucking Hindu

597
00:38:08,599 --> 00:38:11,920
guys who watched too much TV deciding they're gonna calle

598
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,280
police us. Like that's over with.

599
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: You know, places, I think I think people. I think

600
00:38:20,039 --> 00:38:24,320
people instinctively, even like the big law and order boomers

601
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,480
and everything like that, know that if you send somebody

602
00:38:28,559 --> 00:38:31,800
into police, like if you're sending you know a bunch

603
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,519
of suburban white guys into the hood, in the in

604
00:38:34,559 --> 00:38:38,079
the inner city. That's just an invading army. And even

605
00:38:38,119 --> 00:38:42,239
if people can't even if people can't articulate that, they

606
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,639
instinctively know it and they're reacting to it.

607
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:48,039
Speaker 2: And it's a terrible idea. And I mean, no, make

608
00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:52,119
no mistake, like I'm more sympathetic to nineteen eighties LAPD

609
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,880
than a lot of people. And whether in the movie Colors,

610
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,199
that's a really great movie. It's just cool, but it's

611
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,639
also you know, like when it opens up and it's

612
00:39:04,679 --> 00:39:09,360
Operation Hammer, where Gates is basically like like Flying Crash,

613
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,920
they're just like they're throwing the brace Thatt's on like

614
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,000
any like any military age male, like Flying Gang Colors,

615
00:39:15,039 --> 00:39:18,519
because Gates's notion is like, let's arrest like all these motherfuckers.

616
00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:22,719
And even if they bond out, you know, in thirty

617
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,719
six hours when they get in front of a judge,

618
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,639
or even if like you know, they get cut loose

619
00:39:26,679 --> 00:39:29,559
without even a bonding set, He's like, now we know,

620
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,920
now we've got an idea, like the forest levels of

621
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,440
these guys and what they're set is, and like what

622
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,119
what territory they claim, you know, so we can build

623
00:39:37,119 --> 00:39:39,679
like a conceptual picture of like what op for is

624
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,400
and uh like it really was like a war, you know,

625
00:39:43,679 --> 00:39:47,199
and the movie gets into that, you know, like especially

626
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,320
where I think, uh, they don't other than the crypts

627
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,360
in the Blood is like they use euphemisms for the

628
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,639
other gangs, but they're but there's like the there's like

629
00:39:56,679 --> 00:39:59,599
the mostly Spanish gang but they're supposed to be eighteenth

630
00:39:59,639 --> 00:40:04,079
Street and like they assault the crips and uh like

631
00:40:04,119 --> 00:40:06,360
the one dude, uh, the one who's got a mac

632
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,639
ten and then don Hievel he's got an a K

633
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,440
and they're like throwing they're throwing like frags at each other.

634
00:40:13,559 --> 00:40:15,480
Like that's not as like I was watching this movie

635
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,280
with this chick. I was watching the Move with this chick.

636
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,280
I know, it was like a lot younger than me,

637
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,960
and she was like laughing. I'm like, no, you don't understand,

638
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,039
like shit was like that and like that's not just

639
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:30,079
like cartoons stuff, you know, and uh so, I mean,

640
00:40:30,159 --> 00:40:33,960
I I I don't think Gates was was a great guy,

641
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:39,719
but I understand what is I understand is his tad

642
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,480
orientation and it wasn't just crazy or and he wasn't

643
00:40:43,519 --> 00:40:46,800
just being some tyrant or something. But I mean that's

644
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,119
that's not the way things That's not the way things

645
00:40:50,159 --> 00:40:54,960
are anymore. And you know, also I like nine to

646
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,920
eleven change things in ways that I don't think in ways.

647
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,559
They're in ways that are severe but also somewhat subtle.

648
00:41:02,599 --> 00:41:08,719
Man And like I you know, basically there's certain sorts

649
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,280
of conduct that take the individuals so engaged out of

650
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:16,679
consideration as a criminal actor and it becomes okay to

651
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,599
blast them. And this is what this is a fact.

652
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:26,800
You know. So this idea that well, you know, the

653
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:28,960
normal idea like well we need the police because like

654
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,599
what about terrorism or what about like may I shooters.

655
00:41:31,599 --> 00:41:35,920
It's like that's not really a police problem. Like that

656
00:41:36,039 --> 00:41:39,320
means you need people to deploy to kill them, you know,

657
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,000
And I mean that's that's That's not to say you

658
00:41:41,039 --> 00:41:43,079
post up the army of the National Guard to patrol

659
00:41:43,119 --> 00:41:49,079
the streets, but that means that the response to those

660
00:41:49,159 --> 00:41:52,599
kinds of crises are not We're going to send a

661
00:41:52,639 --> 00:41:56,559
police department to frisk and arrest people. You know, it's

662
00:41:56,599 --> 00:42:03,639
a totally different mission orientation. And increasingly that kind of

663
00:42:03,639 --> 00:42:05,960
thing is going to be privatized. It's like if the

664
00:42:06,039 --> 00:42:12,119
idea is, which the idea should be for anyone who's

665
00:42:12,159 --> 00:42:16,239
serious about physical security of that sort, is to preempt

666
00:42:16,639 --> 00:42:21,559
violence before it happens. Well, I mean you you basically

667
00:42:23,679 --> 00:42:26,239
it's like Eric Prince talked about after the attempt on

668
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,039
Trump's life on one of those podcasts. He's like, you

669
00:42:30,039 --> 00:42:33,920
don't really want a police sensibility if you're trying to

670
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,800
protect the president or presidential candidate. You know you're not

671
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,599
You're not looking for both suspicious people. You're not scanting

672
00:42:41,639 --> 00:42:44,719
the crowd for a guy who's maybe strapped. You know,

673
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,840
you're looking for threats. And when you identify those threats,

674
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:52,440
you you neutralize them. And yeah, like sometimes you're wrong

675
00:42:52,639 --> 00:42:57,280
and that's bad. But I mean that's the the liabilities,

676
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:04,199
moral and material that attend any any any profession that

677
00:43:04,199 --> 00:43:08,639
that you know deals with violence its currency. But you

678
00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:13,400
know that that Princess is an interesting guy and he

679
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:17,360
he he understands this better than most people, despite the

680
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,079
facts his background is military, not police. But I think

681
00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:25,199
that actually is one of the things to which is insight, oh,

682
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:30,119
is because it's hard to see the parameters of of

683
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:40,679
changing phenomena, particularly sociological or or or political phenomenon like

684
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,480
from within an institution, you know, and if you're if

685
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,000
you even if you're on the younger side, if feel

686
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:47,719
like a cop who's been doing this for a decade

687
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,119
or longer, like like basically you're in You're in your

688
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,719
entire conceptual horizon, you know, orbits around kind of like

689
00:43:55,639 --> 00:43:59,880
police science and and the kind of strictures that uh,

690
00:44:00,039 --> 00:44:04,320
you know supposedly are the kind of core tenets of

691
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,400
of policing. When when that's that's pretty much dead in

692
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,199
the water. And I especially these days too, you know,

693
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:21,119
I Uh, one of the I lament a lot the

694
00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:23,800
death of the public intellectual like as a as a

695
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:29,440
type of person, because I think they played an essential role.

696
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:31,599
And that's one of the reasons things have been done

697
00:44:31,639 --> 00:44:34,320
down so much out of the Cold War is it's

698
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,639
hard to determine this is like a causal Varia Bullard

699
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,199
or just like a secondary effect. Maybe it's both. But

700
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:49,000
you know, there's this really great documentary called The Futurists,

701
00:44:49,039 --> 00:44:52,360
and uh, it came out in the seventies, like around

702
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:58,039
the time it very much I was riffing on Alvin Toffler,

703
00:44:59,199 --> 00:45:01,159
the guy who wrote a few your Shock, which is

704
00:45:01,199 --> 00:45:06,320
a really good book. But you know, Prince is the

705
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,480
only guy I've heard talk about the fact that you know,

706
00:45:09,559 --> 00:45:12,239
these days, if if you want to hurt people, or

707
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,840
if you want to or if you want to assassinate

708
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:20,800
a public official or a or a high value target,

709
00:45:21,199 --> 00:45:24,320
you don't even need to put eyes on them and

710
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,559
and and close physical distance and blast them. I mean

711
00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:30,719
you could, you could program drones to swarm them. Like

712
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:36,480
that'll take some planning and some money. But there's there's

713
00:45:36,519 --> 00:45:41,920
guys who have never even had a smartphone, like in

714
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,440
The Traveler is a Pakistan, like they they learn how

715
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,599
to program drones. It's not like you need to be

716
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,800
some It's not you need to be some like under

717
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,800
seventeen like boy genius to do it. You know, they're

718
00:45:55,119 --> 00:46:01,239
they're very they're they're very utile in bailfy situations for

719
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:07,280
that reason, you know. And uh so this idea too

720
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,400
that like well, unless we have like physical eyes on

721
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,639
the ground doing like patrols, like we we we can't

722
00:46:12,639 --> 00:46:16,440
control a we we can't not control. We can't we

723
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:20,840
can't provide security for you know, for a physical space

724
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,639
like this nonsense, like you don't need to do that anymore.

725
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,480
In fact, that might not even help, and what are

726
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,599
you gonna hypothetically and God forbid and that God doesn't happen.

727
00:46:29,599 --> 00:46:32,480
I mean, let's say, let's say the president or you know,

728
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,880
somebody else wasn't like Trump situation, and like it doesn't

729
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,239
like drones like converge on them. Like we see I

730
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,360
was gonna do start blasting the drones, and they're if

731
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,280
they're kind of casey, drones are all gonna die and

732
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,000
then blow up, you know, I mean, like, what what

733
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:53,079
are you gonna do about them? It's such that there

734
00:46:53,159 --> 00:46:56,480
is a countermeasure. I mean, yeah, you do any you

735
00:46:56,519 --> 00:47:01,159
do still need eyes on the operational area, Like I

736
00:47:01,199 --> 00:47:04,440
looked like spotting where somebody controlling those drones, but that

737
00:47:04,519 --> 00:47:09,840
guy could be fourteen kilometers away. Okay, you know things

738
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,239
like that, you know, and I realized that like people pete,

739
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,639
the rebuttal is gonna be like like subs watching. It's

740
00:47:15,639 --> 00:47:18,199
gonna be like, well, that's not what like beat cops do.

741
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,559
It's like no, but that comes back to what I

742
00:47:20,599 --> 00:47:24,519
said before. A lot of this stuff is is becoming

743
00:47:24,559 --> 00:47:28,280
private eyes and a lot of it, you know, there's

744
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,480
not really a civic culture that interfaces with the bureaugrac anymore.

745
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,760
You know, like in a lot of ways that's positive

746
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,079
because stuff like we're doing, we're building genuine community in

747
00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:41,079
a deliberate way. But I I don't want to fuck

748
00:47:41,119 --> 00:47:44,800
with the police. Like if somebody, if somebody tried to

749
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,800
hurt me or my dad and my home, I defend

750
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:52,760
myself and God forbid, if somebody died, like somebody attagging me,

751
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,000
obviously I'd call it in so I didn't get charged

752
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,880
with murder. But beyond that, like if somebody, if some

753
00:48:00,599 --> 00:48:02,920
if like if I was at Starbucks and I find

754
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,880
I discovered somebody stole my wallet, I'm not gonna call

755
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,039
the police. They're not gonna care, Like what are they

756
00:48:08,039 --> 00:48:11,000
gonna do? You know, this isn't nineteen eighty or something

757
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,039
where it's like if you have a problem, oh you

758
00:48:13,079 --> 00:48:17,760
call the police. Because there's kind of like this not

759
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,599
particularly intimate or or or or or deep, but there

760
00:48:22,639 --> 00:48:26,320
is this kind of like basic moral consensus where it's like, okay,

761
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,760
like all all you know, all non marginal people like

762
00:48:31,039 --> 00:48:34,039
call the police to resolve you know, these these kinds

763
00:48:34,079 --> 00:48:37,000
of slights to the person of their property. Like nobody

764
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:41,320
thinks that way anymore. You know, so a lot of

765
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,400
that's dead. And as far as like physical security and stuff,

766
00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:50,079
it's like, well, you know, you should be you should

767
00:48:50,119 --> 00:48:53,400
be thinking about self defense. You shouldn't be thinking like

768
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,400
I'm gonna call the police protect me. I mean, don'tthing wrong.

769
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,280
I realize there's you know, if you're like a single

770
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,559
woman and like a city or something like, I have

771
00:49:01,599 --> 00:49:03,559
no doubt that that can be like very scary. And

772
00:49:03,679 --> 00:49:05,079
you know, you need to be able to call people

773
00:49:05,119 --> 00:49:08,159
to help you with stuff because you know, some people

774
00:49:08,199 --> 00:49:11,960
are vulnerable and that's a difficult question, you know, and

775
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,960
there's gonna be there's gonna be gaps in in the

776
00:49:17,039 --> 00:49:19,639
protection that certain vulnerable people need. And that's not a

777
00:49:19,639 --> 00:49:21,760
good thing. But that's the way things always are. That

778
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:29,679
doesn't somehow negate or defeat sociological trends that are driven

779
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:36,880
by historical processes and move ons. You know. So that's important.

780
00:49:37,159 --> 00:49:38,719
But I will say is I take it back, is

781
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,599
not forgive me one of the I should have said

782
00:49:40,599 --> 00:49:43,000
this when we were kind of breaking down Wildblos catalog.

783
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,599
The New Centurions is like a good book. Yeah, it's

784
00:49:46,639 --> 00:49:49,519
like pro police stuff. And because he was he was

785
00:49:49,559 --> 00:49:52,320
like an l EPD sergeant when he wrote it, and

786
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:59,840
so obviously he wasn't gonna trash the organization. But also,

787
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:02,760
you know, like we talked about the earlier earlier episode,

788
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:04,760
l a p D has always been kind of like

789
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:09,440
uniquely interfaced with media. Like I guarantee you that l

790
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,400
a p D was way more involved in like the

791
00:50:12,519 --> 00:50:15,559
process A many officer was like writing something, whether it

792
00:50:15,639 --> 00:50:17,800
was like a TV or a film script or a novel.

793
00:50:18,159 --> 00:50:23,760
So I guarantee you we had like like administration guys

794
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:30,880
like literally looking over his shoulder. But it does. It's

795
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,320
it basically, it doesn't have a traditional plot. It's very episodic,

796
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:39,440
and there's three It follows these three young guys like

797
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,079
through the police a kid, I mean, then like they

798
00:50:41,159 --> 00:50:43,519
hit the street and like one of the guys' names

799
00:50:43,559 --> 00:50:51,199
is Duran. He's basically like, uh, he's like a Tejano guy,

800
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:52,960
but he's he's like a white dude. He like doesn't

801
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,360
identify with like Chicanos. He's not from East La. But

802
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,719
because of like his appearance and his surname, like he

803
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:04,480
gets deployed like East La and like a heart basically

804
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,519
I think around echo Park. I have to reread it

805
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:14,440
but he uh, that's probably the most like people criticizes

806
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,480
the book saying like, oh, well, but he draws no

807
00:51:17,679 --> 00:51:20,440
my characters in simple minded terms, that's the wrong way

808
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,320
to look at it, because always with Duran is that

809
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:26,199
Duran's like he he gets like the Echo Park beat

810
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:28,360
or whatever, and he's like, I'm not like these fucking people,

811
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,320
like their scumbaggs. But then he realizes, like on the street,

812
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,000
like you are Mexican, like you are mister policeman. People

813
00:51:35,039 --> 00:51:38,480
think you're one of them. You know, it doesn't matter,

814
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,199
and like as and it's interesting too because like his

815
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,480
perspective obviously, and those the people he's charged with policing,

816
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,639
like as the watchwrights jump off, you see, like what

817
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,840
the Spanish folks are thinking, you know, because they're kind

818
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,960
of like they're kind of like this third variable, you know.

819
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,760
And then like one of the dudes is he's like

820
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,480
this guy, like funk guy, you know what I mean.

821
00:52:01,519 --> 00:52:04,119
He's like do something. So he becomes a cop, you know,

822
00:52:04,119 --> 00:52:06,360
and he's convinced he's like smarter than everybody and shit,

823
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,639
and he kind of like looks down on his fellow officers.

824
00:52:08,679 --> 00:52:10,559
He's just like it's kind of like regular like middle

825
00:52:10,599 --> 00:52:14,920
class white dude. But then like he gets he gets

826
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,079
a signed like the deep hood. It's like when Watch

827
00:52:18,199 --> 00:52:21,480
jumps off, like he gets he's, uh, he's like under

828
00:52:21,559 --> 00:52:25,559
fire and stuff, and then he realizes, like uh, he

829
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:28,639
gets like humbled by the whole experience, you know, like

830
00:52:28,679 --> 00:52:32,079
stuff like that. It's you know, and I'm sure some people,

831
00:52:32,159 --> 00:52:35,320
especially like younger guys and girls, who would think it

832
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:39,639
was like corny, like the kind of you know, the

833
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:45,079
kind of like nineteen sixties era kind of like bumper

834
00:52:45,159 --> 00:52:49,639
sticker patriotism. But it is like a it is kind

835
00:52:49,639 --> 00:52:52,880
of like a snapshot, and it's called the New Centurion.

836
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:57,599
It's like the third guy who I think is supposed

837
00:52:57,639 --> 00:52:59,760
to be Wamba because he's just kind of like just

838
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,239
like regular dude. He's who's you know, he wants to

839
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,280
be a police officer and he doesn't have a lot

840
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,800
of vices and stuff. But the guy who, uh, the

841
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,880
guy who teaches him how to like be a street cop,

842
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:18,400
ends up committing suicide. But that dude tells him like,

843
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,679
we're the new Centurions, because basically America is like the

844
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,559
failing Roman Empire, you know, and and the only thing

845
00:53:25,559 --> 00:53:29,960
that stands between the barbarians, you know, and and what

846
00:53:30,039 --> 00:53:33,360
remains a civilization, like are us. And that's that's kind

847
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,159
of like as bleak and subversive as the book gets.

848
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:38,599
But then like the character that drops that, like he

849
00:53:38,679 --> 00:53:41,039
blows his brains out and it turns out he's think

850
00:53:41,039 --> 00:53:43,559
it's a big alcoholic. So I think that's like by

851
00:53:43,679 --> 00:53:46,480
dropping like real talk with the Albie. Oh no, that's

852
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:52,559
a disturbed character. But that's interesting because it, I uh,

853
00:53:54,519 --> 00:53:59,719
one of the one of the vignettesa like in the

854
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,360
movie Cruising with Help but you know, which is an

855
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,599
underrated It's like the subject matter is gross and that

856
00:54:04,639 --> 00:54:06,159
puts a lot of people off. But I think it's

857
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:10,519
kind of like an American giallo picture. I really like it.

858
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:14,960
But the the opening scene, there's these two cops and

859
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,280
one of us played by Joe Spinell, and uh, they're

860
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:23,360
driving around I guess it's uh, I think it. I

861
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:25,719
think they're actually in Alphabet City, but I think it's

862
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,639
supposed to be the village and they go by and

863
00:54:28,679 --> 00:54:31,880
there's there's there's like these dudes like in leather and

864
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:35,440
these guys, you know, these transsexual and stuff, and Spinells

865
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:39,159
just like it's like, what the hell is happening? You know,

866
00:54:39,199 --> 00:54:42,760
And it's like, uh, you get that sense like in

867
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:48,760
the New Centurions, like especially like in the dan Umois

868
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,199
where like the characters passed finally crossing to watch. It's like,

869
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:54,840
you know, I took this job because I wanted to

870
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,760
like help vulnerable people or whatever. And like I'm literally

871
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,280
pinned down mint a dumpster because there's a sniper like

872
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,480
popping off at me with a thirty six. Like what's

873
00:55:04,559 --> 00:55:11,639
happening here? Like something's something's coming apart, you know, And

874
00:55:11,679 --> 00:55:13,880
so it's worthwhile for every reason. Well, I'm about like

875
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,079
wrote some later books, and like I said, it's kind

876
00:55:16,079 --> 00:55:20,480
of interestingly James Elroy what I have mixed feelings about.

877
00:55:20,519 --> 00:55:25,519
But I I do think he's important to Los Angeles

878
00:55:25,559 --> 00:55:30,400
culture in some ways, and I I identify with him

879
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,840
and in some respects. But he he said when he

880
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:39,320
was home with some he said, uh, he said he

881
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,239
saved a bunch of his money from panhandling and stuff,

882
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:48,440
and and like and uh say goodbye the Onion Field.

883
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,039
It was like his favorite book, you know. And he

884
00:55:50,679 --> 00:55:52,519
and he always like whooked up the Cops and things

885
00:55:52,519 --> 00:55:57,320
like that, and so she she shot out Womba a

886
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,679
lot in his books, and then Wamba I started writing

887
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,039
books kind of in the vein of Elroy. Like the

888
00:56:03,119 --> 00:56:05,239
later stuff he wrote was kind of like a hard

889
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:08,519
boiled type stuff. Like one of his books is about

890
00:56:08,559 --> 00:56:12,079
like nineteen eighties, like like like Salmonano Valley and like

891
00:56:12,199 --> 00:56:15,280
porn shit, and it's kind of grimy. I mean, that's

892
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:20,480
a grimy fucking subject, but it but it's I didn't

893
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:22,480
find it off putting, but I thought that it was

894
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:24,960
for tablo reasons. I'm mean, I read all kinds of

895
00:56:25,039 --> 00:56:28,559
stuff that people will probably find I would think it's gross,

896
00:56:28,599 --> 00:56:34,719
but it seemed so something. It seems kind of like

897
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:40,960
affected about it. But so I I wouldn't recommend his

898
00:56:41,079 --> 00:56:44,800
like later stuff, but definitely definitely read The Onion Field.

899
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,800
I definitely read The Choir Boys. The Choir Boys is

900
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,159
one of the when I was sending out Frog packages

901
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:52,639
before it became too like Bell luminous to send them

902
00:56:52,679 --> 00:56:55,039
out to people. I want to get back to doing that,

903
00:56:55,119 --> 00:56:56,480
but I'm gonna have to do it in a way

904
00:56:56,519 --> 00:56:58,199
where it's not just like me going to the post

905
00:56:58,199 --> 00:57:01,559
office and sending packages. But I think I set out

906
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,199
like five or six payer backs to the Choir Boys

907
00:57:04,199 --> 00:57:08,559
because I like the book that much and it, uh,

908
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:16,840
it's had a not insignificant impact on my own writing.

909
00:57:17,199 --> 00:57:23,840
But yeah, that's about all I got for WAM. I

910
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,320
I appreciate you abiding my suggestions because, like I said,

911
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:33,159
I think I think he's I think he's an important

912
00:57:34,599 --> 00:57:40,440
contributor to the kind of catalog of police lit, particularly

913
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:45,440
particularly in the capacities we're talking about.

914
00:57:45,559 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: So I thought it was important, man, But I am yea,

915
00:57:50,599 --> 00:57:54,559
I have I have a suggestion. Yeah, this this episode

916
00:57:54,679 --> 00:58:00,199
was sort of sort of like our movie reviews, and yeah,

917
00:58:00,639 --> 00:58:04,280
I think we should release one publicly so people can

918
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,239
see what's uh you know, what we do.

919
00:58:07,079 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I.

920
00:58:07,719 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 1: Think uh, I think Resurrection Man would be a good

921
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:14,880
one to release publicly because that's one where you're just

922
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,760
breaking down the whole history of everything in the real

923
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:20,920
guys and area. I think people really get off on that. Yeah.

924
00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:22,559
Speaker 2: One of the reasons I wanted to review it is

925
00:58:22,599 --> 00:58:25,000
because I thought people would be thirsty, because people when

926
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:28,719
I draw up troubles oriented content, like people seem to

927
00:58:28,719 --> 00:58:30,599
be really interested in it, you know, And I try

928
00:58:30,639 --> 00:58:34,880
and do so very respectfully because for obvious reasons, and

929
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:41,960
I'm lucky that you know, I'm lucky that Ulster natives,

930
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,639
including like you know, my dear friend Lady of Schelle,

931
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,840
I've been willing to collab with me on stuff, you know,

932
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:53,480
because that's my bloodline and my confessional heritage. But obviously,

933
00:58:53,519 --> 00:58:57,840
I mean, I'm I'm a fucking like Chicago jig Off.

934
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:02,880
I don't do them be incited to other than I

935
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:05,199
don't have any great insight into the troubles, man, I

936
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:08,840
just I, I mean, kind of an obsessive study of

937
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,920
it because it's my heritage. But obviously you know that

938
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:17,039
that's a totally different thing. But yeah, I think if

939
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:20,400
it I think I think if it got the right audience,

940
00:59:20,559 --> 00:59:23,119
they would really pop. And yeah, that's a good idea.

941
00:59:23,159 --> 00:59:24,599
I think now is the time to do it.

942
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll throw it up on my YouTube channel and

943
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:31,840
direct everyone there to it. So thank you for this.

944
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:36,840
We'll talk about what to do next and privately and

945
00:59:37,719 --> 00:59:40,800
do some do some plugs, and I'm gonna go talk

946
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:42,920
to the o g go talk to the old Glory

947
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:43,679
Club guys.

948
00:59:44,239 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 2: That's great. I'm a I'm launching season three of the

949
00:59:51,039 --> 00:59:55,159
pod the first week in February and the guy who's

950
00:59:55,159 --> 00:59:57,599
gonna collab with me on the first couple episodes. I

951
00:59:57,639 --> 01:00:01,039
talked to him by phone today, which was which is awesome.

952
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:06,719
I'm gonna tweak it a little bit. I'll explain before

953
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:10,360
I releave, before I upload it, but I'm every day today,

954
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:14,000
like I took five the first five episodes from season

955
01:00:14,039 --> 01:00:16,880
one from behind the paywall, I'm gonna keep doing that

956
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,679
every day. I'm gonna remove five episodes on the paywall

957
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:23,119
until season one and two are totally free, and I'm

958
01:00:23,119 --> 01:00:25,039
gonna I'm gonna upload a bunch of other like free

959
01:00:25,039 --> 01:00:30,400
shit like content that I haven't released before. You can

960
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,159
find all of that good stuff on my subs deck.

961
01:00:33,239 --> 01:00:37,000
It's real Thomas seven seven seven at substack dot substack

962
01:00:37,079 --> 01:00:42,880
dot com, on social media at capital R E A

963
01:00:43,039 --> 01:00:47,679
L number seven h O M A S seven seven seven,

964
01:00:48,599 --> 01:00:51,000
and you can go to my website Thomas seven seven

965
01:00:51,079 --> 01:00:54,400
seven dot com. But the first T or the only

966
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:57,679
T is A seven. Those the best place to define me.

967
01:00:58,079 --> 01:00:59,800
And like I said, I'm gonna make some changes, but

968
01:01:00,559 --> 01:01:02,679
I keep everybody in the loop of what I'm doing.

969
01:01:02,719 --> 01:01:05,119
Like a sub stack, you know, I at least once

970
01:01:05,159 --> 01:01:07,480
a week I shout out like what's happening and what

971
01:01:07,519 --> 01:01:10,760
I'm doing. So that's the place to go.

972
01:01:12,239 --> 01:01:14,679
Speaker 1: All right, Thank you so much, till the next time.

973
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:15,239
Yeah in