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<v Speaker 1>Thirty five after the hour. Welcome back on a Thursday

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<v Speaker 1>morning across the great state of Michigan. Here on Exes

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<v Speaker 1>and Bros. We're with you Monday through Friday, six until nine.

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<v Speaker 1>Excited for football season to begin, and really excited to

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<v Speaker 1>see what Jonathan Smith's impact will be on the Spartan

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<v Speaker 1>football program. Nobody knows it better than Graham Couch to

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<v Speaker 1>the Lansing State Journal. You can follow him on Twitter

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<v Speaker 1>or on ex Graham underscore Couch and he joins us

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<v Speaker 1>here on Exes and Bros. Grab Good morning to you.

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<v Speaker 1>How are you and your family good?

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<v Speaker 2>Doing well? Yeah, it's good to be with you.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, same new season, always fresh start. You wrote yesterday

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<v Speaker 1>in your article positive vibes at Tuesday's first practice. What

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<v Speaker 1>were those positive vibes that you noticed?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know there's an exhale and an eagerness that

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<v Speaker 2>you just you can feel it, and you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>think you know, fans will often relate to the feeling

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<v Speaker 2>that last year was just misery, right, and it was

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<v Speaker 2>once mel Tucker was fired and you're a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>weeks into the season, nothing good was really going to

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<v Speaker 2>come out of that season. They lost some heartbreaking ways,

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<v Speaker 2>and by the end they really just wanted a competitive

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<v Speaker 2>football team, and the players felt that too. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was miserable to go through. There were

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<v Speaker 2>some embarrassing moments, and you're just waiting for something new.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like you lose a season, and so the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that you're now on the doorstep of another one with

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<v Speaker 2>a fresh start and a new coach. I think those

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<v Speaker 2>are things that you can just tell that those guys are.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the way they talk about the season. It's the

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<v Speaker 2>way they you know, every season is something new. Is optimism.

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<v Speaker 2>We all know that that's sports, but you can feel

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<v Speaker 2>it when you're you're coming off something that was really bad.

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<v Speaker 1>Grant, it's really too early to even try to gauge

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<v Speaker 1>the impact that Jonathan Smith is going to have on

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<v Speaker 1>a program, but first impressions are pretty important. What's your

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<v Speaker 1>first impression of Jonathan Smith, the guy who I thought

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<v Speaker 1>was an ideal higher for this position.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that he's a no frills personality in terms of,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, as a coach, but he's a very competent coach.

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<v Speaker 2>And that doesn't mean he's a no frills offense or

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<v Speaker 2>no frills in terms of style. But you know, he's

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<v Speaker 2>a guy who cares about football and his family, so

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<v Speaker 2>to speak, and doesn't really care about a whole lot

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<v Speaker 2>else like he like when he when he speaks to

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<v Speaker 2>the media, for example, sometimes he doesn't say a whole

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<v Speaker 2>lot more than Mel Tucker, but he says it in

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<v Speaker 2>very shorter, distinct sentences, and so he gets through it

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<v Speaker 2>clicker and he almost speaks like Yoda sometimes where he

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<v Speaker 2>puts the words in opposite order and it's it's uh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>he has been you know. And I also think that

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<v Speaker 2>there is a an all business sort of truth serum

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<v Speaker 2>that he and his staff have brought to the program

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<v Speaker 2>that the players have appreciated, especially those returning. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>some of the early conversations guys had with him and

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<v Speaker 2>his staff were about not trying to convince them to stay,

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<v Speaker 2>not trying, you know, we're about what they needed to

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<v Speaker 2>get better at quickly, and if you know, if they

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to maximize who they were, and the coaches that

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<v Speaker 2>already looked through their film it are there's a you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's a sense from the guys that that

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<v Speaker 2>it's not about it doesn't feel like it's about him,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think that is an important thing for them.

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<v Speaker 3>I love that truth serum. That's good stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Graham Couch, Lancon's State Journal, joining his fall him on

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<v Speaker 1>ex Graham underscore Couch, where's the biggest buzz do you think?

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<v Speaker 2>Well? I mean, I think quarterback is the physician people

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<v Speaker 2>are most intrigued by. And because you bring in a

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<v Speaker 2>guy like Aiden Chiles, who was a big time recruit

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<v Speaker 2>who was, you know something, a physician they really struggled

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<v Speaker 2>at last year. He's got, you know, quick feet, he's

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<v Speaker 2>a playmaker, a big arm. The thing is, and I

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<v Speaker 2>do wonder about a little bit how this is going

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<v Speaker 2>to go. And I think people need to realize that

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<v Speaker 2>he doesn't turn nineteen until this after the second game

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<v Speaker 2>of the season.

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<v Speaker 3>And wow, I didn't know that.

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<v Speaker 2>So he is a young freshman. I mean, most of

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<v Speaker 2>the freshmen to come in now the in the year

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<v Speaker 2>of like AJ Hogard and Hunter Dickenson, are like twenty

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<v Speaker 2>six by the time they dribble a basketball in college.

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<v Speaker 2>But but you know, he's a young freshman and he's

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<v Speaker 2>he's never been a starter. I mean, he came off

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<v Speaker 2>the bench last year at Oregon State and he was

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<v Speaker 2>brought in to be the future there. But he's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>have to grow into things too. I think the thing

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<v Speaker 2>that will be more joyful for MSU fans this year,

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<v Speaker 2>even if the record isn't great, is there will be

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<v Speaker 2>moments of playmaking. There will be moments of promise. There

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<v Speaker 2>be moments where you see what will be or what

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<v Speaker 2>can be down the road. You've got a quarterback going

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<v Speaker 2>to allow you to maybe punch up and some given games.

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<v Speaker 2>I also think they're his targets are going to be

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<v Speaker 2>pretty good. I think they're going to be pretty sound

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<v Speaker 2>at receiver and tight end. And I think that gives

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<v Speaker 2>you a chance to I mean, you know, if you

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<v Speaker 2>don't have the line of scrimmage, that's going to punish people,

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<v Speaker 2>if you don't have a defense that's going to some

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<v Speaker 2>other people. You've got to have playmakers on offense that

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<v Speaker 2>give you a chance on a given day to have

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<v Speaker 2>a day and to upset somebody or be in a

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<v Speaker 2>game people don't anticipate. And I think they may have

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<v Speaker 2>that dynamic. They may also have a dynamic for a

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<v Speaker 2>young quarterback where he throws some picks and they lose

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<v Speaker 2>some games they could have won. But I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>where the biggest optimism.

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<v Speaker 1>Is you and I have covered sports for a long

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<v Speaker 1>long time. We understand the word patience, but a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of fans get tired of it, especially those who follow

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<v Speaker 1>the Tigers, the Red Wings, and the Pistons. So I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not asking you to use that word here with Jonathan Smith,

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<v Speaker 1>nor do I suggest he's used. But what word would

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<v Speaker 1>you use as miss Again State fans ask you about

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<v Speaker 1>this upcoming season.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, uh, it's a good question, I said. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to say, really, I think fans are realistic with this,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I would it's a good where I would say,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I think people have the right to be hopeful,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think there is a level of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>sort of living the moment joy that you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>be able to have with this team and some of

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<v Speaker 2>the most enjoyable teams. You know, everything's relative to expectations, right,

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<v Speaker 2>Like I covered to the Michigan State teams in the

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<v Speaker 2>D'Antonio era where they were winning a ton or they

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<v Speaker 2>went to the year they went to the playoff, there

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't a ton of joy throughout the season because it

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<v Speaker 2>was no longer it no longer meant anything to like

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<v Speaker 2>beat Purdue, right, you had to go ten and one.

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<v Speaker 2>When they lost a Nebraska that year, it seemed like

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<v Speaker 2>that was going to cost them dearly, like that that

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<v Speaker 2>was such a monumental failure, and it was one game

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<v Speaker 2>on the road, And so in a season like this,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't get that. What you get is you're able

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<v Speaker 2>to enjoy the small victories. Every victory matters. You're able

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<v Speaker 2>to enjoy the one up. Like they have a stretch

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<v Speaker 2>of games where they play Ohio State at home, they're

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<v Speaker 2>at Oregon six days later, they have a buye, they

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<v Speaker 2>host Isle of the I think it's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>pretty good, and then they are at Michigan. Like, that's

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<v Speaker 2>a nasty four game stretch, and if you can win

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<v Speaker 2>one of those four games, you've probably get in yourself

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<v Speaker 2>a real chance to get to six seven wins, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>you know, maybe seven for sure in that sense, and

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<v Speaker 2>that that's something you can take joy and they won't

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<v Speaker 2>feel like a looting streak or oh they went one

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<v Speaker 2>and three in this stretch. One and three in that

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<v Speaker 2>stretch is something I think people will will understand and

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<v Speaker 2>feel okay about. What you want is them to be

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<v Speaker 2>competitive in a couple of those games and try to

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<v Speaker 2>steal one somewhere. It's probably not going to be Ohio

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<v Speaker 2>State or organ so you're looking on the back end

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<v Speaker 2>of that.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that word hopeful, and I think it's appropriate

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<v Speaker 1>as we talk. Graham Couch, the Lansing State Journal, Follow

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<v Speaker 1>him on x follow him on Twitter. Graham underscore Couch.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not just Smith though. There are new coaches, a

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<v Speaker 1>new staff, a new implementation of playbooks and signals and

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<v Speaker 1>calls and things of that nature. Generally, who has stood

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<v Speaker 1>out to you early on that MSU fans should be

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<v Speaker 1>excited about from a coaching standpoint, And how long do

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<v Speaker 1>you think it takes these young student athletes, who are

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<v Speaker 1>constantly pressed for their personal time and social time because

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<v Speaker 1>of the commitment they've made in football, to fully grasp

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<v Speaker 1>the new terminology and playbooks that Michigan State coaches are

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<v Speaker 1>implementing with them.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean for some of them it's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the or at least one guy's a third

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<v Speaker 2>coach ian. These guys are committed to D'Antonio. Yep, you

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<v Speaker 2>know that's it's a good question. You know, like Joe Rossie,

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<v Speaker 2>the defensive coordinator they got from Minnesota and was revered there,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think looked at that he needed another place

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<v Speaker 2>to get to where he wants to go as a

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<v Speaker 2>head coach. There's a lot of I mean, there have

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<v Speaker 2>been some impressive conversations with guys, but I don't really

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<v Speaker 2>know them as coaches. Like I don't like the coaches

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<v Speaker 2>credit for being really smooth talkers or good conversationalist before

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<v Speaker 2>you see that what the sort of the fruits of

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<v Speaker 2>what they're they're doing. But Rossi is a guy who's

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<v Speaker 2>who's who's proven, and I think brings a welcome change

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<v Speaker 2>on that defense, and guys have taken to pretty well.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that was a really really strong hire and

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<v Speaker 2>and that's important when you're an offensive coach. And look,

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<v Speaker 2>Jonathan Smith knows this because he's been a head coach

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<v Speaker 2>for a while and he's had success. But when you're

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<v Speaker 2>an offensive coach, first, you've got to get a strong

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<v Speaker 2>defensive coordinator. You've got to get somebody on that end

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<v Speaker 2>who's seasoned, who's really good, who can run that show,

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<v Speaker 2>because that's that's not your expertise, that's not your world.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think he did that there and I think that's,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, be interesting to see how quickly that shows

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<v Speaker 2>itself they lost some guys in the portal that were

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<v Speaker 2>key guys. They've got some guys that came in. There's

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<v Speaker 2>been more turnover this year than been in a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of other years, and so it's unclear how good they'll be.

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<v Speaker 2>But sometimes you know, you're you know, this covering a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of college football at different levels. You know, like

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<v Speaker 2>if you get a coach who simplifies things, who you

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<v Speaker 2>get a couple of guys who can get to the quarterback,

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<v Speaker 2>and you get some confidence early on in what you're doing,

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<v Speaker 2>you can have a defense that plays above itself all year,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's what MSU really needs.

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<v Speaker 1>You wrote really well yesterday about the importance of Montory

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<v Speaker 1>Foster and Cal Holliday sticking.

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<v Speaker 3>Around for fifth years.

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<v Speaker 1>What is most important with that type of leadership, commitment

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<v Speaker 1>and belief in this new coaching staff, do you think, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think if you want to be a developmental

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<v Speaker 2>program in a day and age when the transfer portal

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<v Speaker 2>allows people to transfer without sitting out as many times

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<v Speaker 2>as want, in a day and age where the answer

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<v Speaker 2>is often to get into portal, and there's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of you know, an eyel inducement. You know, there's a

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<v Speaker 2>lot out there for people to consider when they're not

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<v Speaker 2>playing right away, when patience is hard to have. You

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<v Speaker 2>have guys who committed to D'Antonio and and Maverick Hansen

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<v Speaker 2>spent a year under D'Antonio red shirt, but he played

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<v Speaker 2>on that it was on that team. And then you

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<v Speaker 2>know Montry Foster and Cal Halliday, as you mentioned that

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<v Speaker 2>those guys were they've been through it, and what they

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<v Speaker 2>basically choke, you know, decided was this is a place

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<v Speaker 2>they liked being, and this is a program they liked being.

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<v Speaker 2>And then the answer for them wasn't to seek somewhere else.

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<v Speaker 2>And all these guys were guys that they want to

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<v Speaker 2>have been huge gets on the free agent market, so

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<v Speaker 2>to speak, but they would have had options and and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not talking about options going to Akron. I'm talking

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<v Speaker 2>about options at the high major level. And to choose that,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it speaks to sort of a grass isn't

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<v Speaker 2>always greener with them, you know. And then look, the

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<v Speaker 2>transfer portal works for some guys, but if you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to read a developmental program that in this day and age,

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<v Speaker 2>you need examples of that. You need older guys in

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<v Speaker 2>the program who've been through it, who you know, have

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<v Speaker 2>waited their turn or or have seen things go wrong

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<v Speaker 2>come out the other side. You need people to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>patience right, and not everybody has that voice in their life.

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<v Speaker 2>And if they've got it in their teammates, I think

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<v Speaker 2>that makes a big difference.

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<v Speaker 3>Where will the strength of this team lie.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a really good question, you know, I think because

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<v Speaker 2>there's a chance they're I think they're pretty good at linebacker.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a chance they're okay in the secondary. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>one of these years, if there, if that's the offensive line,

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<v Speaker 2>that would really help, but it's been about a decade

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<v Speaker 2>since that was the case. I think it's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be in the in the offense, in their playmakers, in

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<v Speaker 2>their ability to to punch up at those positions and

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<v Speaker 2>to create there uh you know, to have you know,

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<v Speaker 2>not just Childs, but Nick marsh is a freshman that

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<v Speaker 2>people are really high on. It's a and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>freshman receivers is a dangerous vision and get hyped about.

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<v Speaker 2>But I do think he'll contribute. A big body guy

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<v Speaker 2>and it plays in the spring game. People have already

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<v Speaker 2>talked about on Tory Foster, I think is a you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he's this isn't like a Charles Rogers Plaxico Burth type,

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<v Speaker 2>but he's a capable go to guy and he's got

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<v Speaker 2>a little more juice to him than than maybe they

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<v Speaker 2>had there a year ago. And Duran Glover and so

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's a veling at tight end. I think

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<v Speaker 2>there's there's some pieces there that that give them a

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<v Speaker 2>chance to be to be good moving the ball through

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<v Speaker 2>the air. And Nate Carter has an experienced back, and

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<v Speaker 2>when he was healthy last year, I thought he was

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<v Speaker 2>he was pretty effective. So I think there they'll be.

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<v Speaker 2>They'll be fine there, and I think they'll have enough to,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, to give people problems here and there. The

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<v Speaker 2>question is whether they have the consistency, whether they have

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<v Speaker 2>the other parts where they have the line. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think that is one area that I would be surprised

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<v Speaker 2>if they aren't pretty good.

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<v Speaker 1>I always felt that when when MI Michigan was at

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<v Speaker 1>the peak of their program, they were identified more than

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<v Speaker 1>anything else by being badasses. On defense. They were just

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<v Speaker 1>tough as nails. It was tough to run the ball.

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<v Speaker 1>You were going to be in an absolute war when

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<v Speaker 1>you played Michigan State, whether it be home or road.

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<v Speaker 1>What should should in your mind, be their identity in

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<v Speaker 1>year one under Jonathan Smith.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a good question, because I think what their

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<v Speaker 2>identity is now might be different from what it is

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<v Speaker 2>down the road. And I mean I think it needs

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<v Speaker 2>to be you know, competent football, a team that can

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<v Speaker 2>hit you and a team that can hit you back

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<v Speaker 2>when you hit them. You know, I think there needs

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<v Speaker 2>to be a resiliency and there's the talent to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think long term, I mean at MSU, and they

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<v Speaker 2>haven't had this for a long time, there is a

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<v Speaker 2>zero excuse not to have better offensive lines than they've had,

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<v Speaker 2>and that used to be something that was a real

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<v Speaker 2>staple of I mean, obviously the defense was incredible, but

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<v Speaker 2>you look at the best lines they had into their

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<v Speaker 2>best years. And in the nil world, you know, lineman

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<v Speaker 2>don't go for what quarterbacks do. I would I would

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<v Speaker 2>put a real emphasis on that and making that your

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<v Speaker 2>identity because I think that's one area you could really

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<v Speaker 2>recruit among you know, some of the best in the country.

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<v Speaker 2>Linemen are a different sort of it's a different recruitment.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, like some of the big guys in basketball,

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<v Speaker 2>they commit early. They like to find a place they're comfortable.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, they haven't been actually the darlings of the

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<v Speaker 2>school in high school. It's a different it's a different feel,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's where I think the program if they are

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<v Speaker 2>going to in the vision of Jonathan Smith, if they

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<v Speaker 2>are going to compete then for championships. In that vision,

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<v Speaker 2>I think they need to build something there that's consistent

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<v Speaker 2>and and really in the upper tier of the Big Ten.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, lastly before I let you go, and I

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<v Speaker 1>appreciate all the insight to Jonathan Smith and a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of his staff coming from Washington State, where their rival

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<v Speaker 1>was Washington and where they're playing in the Pac twelve

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<v Speaker 1>and they're playing for an Apple Cup, and now they

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<v Speaker 1>get a different dial of a conference and you're playing

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<v Speaker 1>for the Paul Bunyan Trophy and other trophies. How long

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<v Speaker 1>does it take do you think for new coaching staffs

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<v Speaker 1>to recognize, appreciate and feel the rivalries of Big Ten

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<v Speaker 1>opponents compared to another conference.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a good question, And I mean, I do think

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<v Speaker 2>the feel of being at Oregon State with the dynamic

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<v Speaker 2>of Oregon has some similarities to Michigan State and Michigan

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<v Speaker 2>not entirely, but that feeling that somebody's you know, somebody

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<v Speaker 2>thinks they're better than you. That feeling that Michigan State

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<v Speaker 2>has felt for forever and right now it certainly is

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<v Speaker 2>true on the football field. So I think that helped.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's a good I think you have to feel it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you have to experience it. I think you

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<v Speaker 2>have to be out there and there has to be

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<v Speaker 2>you know, because you see Jonathan Smith and Sean more

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<v Speaker 2>now you know, very very cordial, and they should. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not saying that's that's a bad thing.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that is.

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<v Speaker 2>The Lion rivalry was really healthy because so finally had

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<v Speaker 2>a coach he really respected and actually liked there, and

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<v Speaker 2>that I just I think that stuff's fine. But I

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<v Speaker 2>do think you have to feel it. You have to feel.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to lose once, you have to feel embarrassed.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to feel how the fan base feels and

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<v Speaker 2>the emails and letters and conversations you get about that

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<v Speaker 2>rivalry game all the time. And it doesn't take long.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, mel Tucker had been there before, but he

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<v Speaker 2>got it pretty quickly, and you know, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>other than you know, obviously things went wrong at the end,

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<v Speaker 2>but like winning, having success in that rivalry, which he did.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, if other things have gone differently, would have

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<v Speaker 2>bought him some time in terms of how people felt. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>The thing that's different now than it was for D'Antonio

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<v Speaker 2>is that Michigan's just winning at such a high level,

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<v Speaker 2>and that drives Michigan State fans not so there is

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<v Speaker 2>a Michigan continues to play like they have, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like they were the last couple years. That just adds

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<v Speaker 2>to the sort of the fervor to get it done

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<v Speaker 2>and start winning those games. But yeah, you'll feel it

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<v Speaker 2>the second you play it, I think can You'll feel

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<v Speaker 2>it if there's a little disrespect in the game or

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<v Speaker 2>there's and you'll feel it from your own fan base

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<v Speaker 2>if things don't go well or even if they do.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's great stuff, man. I think I misspoken, said

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<v Speaker 1>Washington State. I'm in Oregon State. Great stuff, Graham. Keep

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<v Speaker 1>up the great workman, Lancey State Journal. Enjoy the articles

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<v Speaker 1>very much, enjoy the coverage. Don't be a stranger. Really

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<v Speaker 1>look forward to you covering the Spartans for another award

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<v Speaker 1>winning season.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks for everything. We'll talk to you soon, Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, great to talk to again. Matt