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Speaker 1: You say forty five if if you have KCD talk station,
Speaker 1: are very happy Tuesday to you and looking forward to
Speaker 1: this all morning. It sounds absolutely fascinating, an amazing development
Speaker 1: of the field of medicine. Joining me doctor Prashawn Robbie.
Speaker 1: He is the CEO of a company called Medior, a
Speaker 1: three D and faculty member in the Department of Radiology
Speaker 1: at the University of Cincinnati College of Medicine, and he
Speaker 1: heart to talk about the use of three D printing
Speaker 1: in connection with surgery. Doctor Robbie, it's a pleasure having
Speaker 1: in the program.
Speaker 3: Today, likewise glad to be here.
Speaker 1: Now. I guess the gist of this is, you know,
Speaker 1: there are CT scans out there, and there are MRIs,
Speaker 1: and I know before going into surgery, like for heart surgery,
Speaker 1: you rely on those to figure out what is wrong,
Speaker 1: I say, with like a microvalve prolapse or there's you
Speaker 1: know what cardiac valve repair. That's the surgery you're planning
Speaker 1: on doing. But I guess those scans have limitations. But
Speaker 1: by using three D technology, you're actually recreating, for example,
Speaker 1: a model of the heart so you can see all
Speaker 1: elements and aspects of it. Is that is my understanding
Speaker 1: correct in that on some minimalist level.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, So what we're doing is essentially describing what the
Speaker 3: information in the CP scan in the form of a
Speaker 3: three D model, which is much more intuitive for the
Speaker 3: surgeon to understand and grasp.
Speaker 1: And so when you build one of these, let's say
Speaker 1: let's stick with the heart for example, you build one
Speaker 1: of these, it is a mirror image of your patient's heart.
Speaker 1: Can you then sort of take it apart and find
Speaker 1: out where the anomalies and the problems are. Is you know,
Speaker 1: multi piece three dimensional image is like a puzzle kind
Speaker 1: of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, This would have to be planned in a step
Speaker 3: called computer ared design. So you would take the information
Speaker 3: in the CP scan and kind of segment the anatomy
Speaker 3: so the structures that are of interest with the surgeon,
Speaker 3: and then yes, there is a way to put it
Speaker 3: in the form of puzzle pieces and actually print those pieces,
Speaker 3: so the surgeon can have a physical kind of puzzle piece,
Speaker 3: you know, to put together and get a better understanding
Speaker 3: of that particular patient's anatomy.
Speaker 1: That's just that's absolutely fascinating. Now you've been involved in
Speaker 1: three D printing for a long time. Judging from your
Speaker 1: CV here that I have in front of me. Has
Speaker 1: three D printing gotten to the point where there is that?
Speaker 1: I mean, is it? Is it exactly accurate replica? I
Speaker 1: just I think you think of pre printing from what
Speaker 1: I've seen is sort of rudimentary, and that you know,
Speaker 1: this human body is so very complicated and there's all
Speaker 1: kinds of things going on in there that are beyond
Speaker 1: my comprehension. But is it that precise that you really
Speaker 1: literally are looking at what the patient's heart looks like?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the technology has come quite a ways, and yeah,
Speaker 3: so if the information is captured in the CD scan
Speaker 3: atom to be precise, Yes, the three D printant model
Speaker 3: that results from it is very accurate compared to the
Speaker 3: CD scan and the patient's anatomy.
Speaker 1: Now can this be in the heart? I understand your
Speaker 1: valves and everything goes on. Can this technology be used
Speaker 1: in other forms of surgery? I mean, is it is
Speaker 1: it sort of limited an application to a heart?
Speaker 3: No, not at all. There's actually a multitude of surgeries
Speaker 3: where this technology is now being applied to help surgeons
Speaker 3: plan that approach better. This can include liver lacerations, trauma
Speaker 3: of the pelvis, jaw fractures, kidney transplants and a bunch
Speaker 3: of other procedures where this is having a real impact
Speaker 3: in how the surgeries are being planned.
Speaker 1: Now, is it possible at some day to use this
Speaker 1: as a diagnostic tool because I guess a CT scan
Speaker 1: and an MRI and these images are as good as
Speaker 1: the radiologist report comes out. And is it possible that
Speaker 1: a radiologist might miss something that could be revealed with
Speaker 1: a three D model.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and it happens all the time. And think of
Speaker 3: it this way. So when a surgeon actually looks through
Speaker 3: a CT scan, he has to scroll through hundreds of
Speaker 3: these slices to mentally map the anatomy in his mind,
Speaker 3: and this can take thirty to sixty minutes of his time.
Speaker 3: But the same information can be presented in the form
Speaker 3: of a three D printed model and can convey that
Speaker 3: information in under five minutes because of the intuitiveness. That's
Speaker 3: not to say that this will completely replace a radiologist report,
Speaker 3: but it's a great adjunct and it just makes it
Speaker 3: so much more intuitive and easy to understand. And I've
Speaker 3: seen this, you know, with cardiothoracic surgeons where they look
Speaker 3: at a model and they know exactly what to do
Speaker 3: in two minutes compared to being confused, you know, looking
Speaker 3: at the CD scan and not knowing exactly how to
Speaker 3: approach that relation.
Speaker 1: How about that? Now, correct me if I'm wrong. But
Speaker 1: when you're removing a cancer tumor, is it the most
Speaker 1: procedure that they keep scraping away and scraping away until
Speaker 1: they find no more evidence of the cancer in the
Speaker 1: in the in the scan or in the in the analysis.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. And then how a three D printed model
Speaker 3: can help in this case is if there's any vasculature
Speaker 3: of blood vessels that are involved. Yeah, it can help
Speaker 3: the surgeon carefully delineate and understand how those vessels actually
Speaker 3: course through and around the tumor, so they can preserve
Speaker 3: those vessels while taking away the tumor.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's kind of what I was thinking it
Speaker 1: could be used for. That's amazing. Now, how long does
Speaker 1: it take if you're thinking about a heart procedure of
Speaker 1: out procedure, how long does it take to build one
Speaker 1: of these three dimensional organs?
Speaker 3: So it can take several last two days with current
Speaker 3: technology typically on the order of days. If you want
Speaker 3: life size and atomic models, you would have to scale
Speaker 3: them down at present to achieve a model on time,
Speaker 3: you know, for some of the urgent cases. And that's
Speaker 3: where VTRR three d's technology is really kind of changing
Speaker 3: the game and enabling same day models for surgeries.
Speaker 1: Fascinating now is are the three D models multi colored?
Speaker 1: So for example, if you're talking about a tumor or
Speaker 1: a mitro valve, that it would be enhanced with a
Speaker 1: different color three D print medium.
Speaker 3: Yes, that is correct, that is three printed capability that
Speaker 3: can actually color code different anatomical structures for better visualization
Speaker 3: and identification.
Speaker 1: So your company, a Media or three D, did you
Speaker 1: invent the technology to convert a CT scan, for example,
Speaker 1: into the computer coding to create the three D model,
Speaker 1: because that obviously involves some sort of complex process that
Speaker 1: again is beyond my understanding.
Speaker 3: Well, Media three technology, my co founder and I invented
Speaker 3: a technology that can considerably speed up the process of
Speaker 3: actually the printing side, because the actual printing of the
Speaker 3: model is the slowest step in the process. I'm going
Speaker 3: from a CT scan to a final three dimensional model.
Speaker 3: So that's where our intellectual property actually lies. We are
Speaker 3: not dealing with the upstream side, the digital side, where
Speaker 3: you actually take a CT scan and make a digital
Speaker 3: three D model that eventually gets printed. We are dealing
Speaker 3: with the downstream, the printing side, which is the slowest
Speaker 3: step currently in the workflow.
Speaker 1: If that makes sense, It does make sense. Well, doctor Robbie,
Speaker 1: can you just give my listeners an illustration of how
Speaker 1: you've employed the three D modeling and you know which
Speaker 1: which resulted in you choosing or a doctor choosing a
Speaker 1: different surgical outcome or process than they would have done
Speaker 1: had they been not had they not had a three
Speaker 1: D model.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. My mind goes back to a recent case
Speaker 3: which involved the chess CT scan up a patient and
Speaker 3: the surgeon specifically in this case was an endoscopic surgeon
Speaker 3: who wanted to operate on the mitral valve of the patients.
Speaker 3: This is the valve that sits between the left upper
Speaker 3: and lower chamber of the heart, and in order to
Speaker 3: operate on that valve, the surgeon needs to enter the
Speaker 3: chest on the right side through a small incision. But
Speaker 3: due to the shape of the chest in this particular patient,
Speaker 3: you know, and the surgeon termed this as a barrel
Speaker 3: chested patient, so because of that, he had a hard
Speaker 3: time visualizing how he would actually access the mithrol valve
Speaker 3: through that entry, and so he requested a model from
Speaker 3: me for this particular case, and when he actually saw
Speaker 3: the model, he decided to not operate on the patient
Speaker 3: because the access would be much harder than here anticipated
Speaker 3: originally from the scan. And so, yeah, it was a
Speaker 3: gift to the patient because it avoided a lot of
Speaker 3: complications and are potentially a surgical failure.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, doctor Prashaw, Robbie, it's been a real pleasure
Speaker 1: talking with you. Congratulations on your involvement in this amazing
Speaker 1: technology life saving. It certainly will be, and I imagine
Speaker 1: it's going to be sort of widely used very soon
Speaker 1: in modern medicine. Modern surgery is just right around the
Speaker 1: corner three D printing. Doctor rob just thanks again for
Speaker 1: being on the program and taking care of your patients
Speaker 1: and coming up with this insanely cool technology. It's been
Speaker 1: a pleasure having you on the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: My pleasure A forty five or eight fifty five if
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