WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:03.480 The Projection Booth podcast is sponsored by Scarecrow Video cry 2 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:06.440 Out Scarecrow's rent by mail service. Choose from over one 3 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:09.119 hundred and fifty thousand films and get Blu rays, four 4 00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:13.119 k's and DVDs delivered directly to your door. Visit scarecrow 5 00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:14.160 dot com today. 6 00:00:19.879 --> 00:00:22.679 Oh g is, folks, it's showtime. 7 00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:25.320 People say good money to see this movie. 8 00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:28.280 When they go out to a theater, they want clod sodas, 9 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:31.960 hot popcorn, and no monsters in the Projection Booth. 10 00:00:32.119 --> 00:00:33.920 Everyone for ten podcasting isn't boring. 11 00:00:35.000 --> 00:01:06.319 Put it off? So you know that? Do you think 12 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:10.439 it's coming back? I don't know. 13 00:01:21.079 --> 00:01:21.719 What are you? 14 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:51.200 I'm confin's recording. I'm not afraid. I'm angry. It's still wait. 15 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:17.560 Remember where you. 16 00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:51.080 Parked, still lost my ticket and your wife said you 17 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:52.599 were taking a cab home my wife. 18 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:55.680 Don't worry. 19 00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:56.319 Monster away. 20 00:02:57.800 --> 00:02:59.400 It takes a little time to get back in the 21 00:02:59.479 --> 00:02:59.960 smooth thing. 22 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:07.159 Welcome to the Projection Booth. I'm your host, Mike White 23 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:09.120 Jo and me once again as mister Chris Stashue. 24 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:13.879 You're worship be born in the dark. I was brendident. 25 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:17.960 I can't do brack from space Ghost coast to coast 26 00:03:18.039 --> 00:03:18.360 very well. 27 00:03:18.439 --> 00:03:21.680 Unfortunately, couldn't even do that line very well. 28 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:23.919 Actually, well neither could Tom Hardy. 29 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:25.400 Yeah, I was about to say, what was that one 30 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:27.360 term where it's like I was going off of my 31 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:28.719 remembrance of the movie. 32 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:35.199 Oh okay. Also back in the booth is mister Spencer Parsons. 33 00:03:35.639 --> 00:03:37.919 I'm a big believer that all aren't aspires to the 34 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:38.960 condition of Batman. 35 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:42.960 This week we are looking at Christopher Nolan's third film 36 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:47.080 and his Batman trilogy, The Dark Knight Rises, released in 37 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:49.840 twenty twelve. The film stars Christian Bale as the titular 38 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:53.120 Dark Knight. Here he goes back to fighting the League 39 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:56.479 of Shadows in the former of Razah Ghul's daughter and 40 00:03:56.560 --> 00:03:59.840 her Minion Baine played by Tom Hardy, on the streets 41 00:03:59.879 --> 00:04:03.759 of Gotham here recast as New York. We will be 42 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:05.879 spoiling this film as we go along. So if you 43 00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:08.479 haven't seen The Dark Knight Rises, which I know at 44 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:10.439 some point I'm gonna slip up and call The Dark 45 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:14.599 Knight Returns or the other two in Nolan's trilogy, go 46 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:16.959 ahead and turn off the podcast. Come back after you've 47 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:20.120 seen them. Really, if you just want to watch the 48 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:22.360 first movie. Not even if you want to watch a 49 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:24.839 second movie and then come back, you really don't need 50 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:28.120 to see the third movie. I'm just gonna assume that 51 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:31.439 all three of us saw this theatrically, but will verify. So, Chris, 52 00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:34.120 when was the first time you saw The Dark Knight Rises? 53 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:35.160 And what did you think? 54 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:38.519 I saw The Dark Knight Rises July twentieth, twenty twelve 55 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:44.560 in theaters. Like I assume everybody did The Dark Knight 56 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:47.959 For me, I guess the original one, but the film 57 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.839 before this one, So the film that preceded this one. 58 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:54.160 But I think the one that most people remember is 59 00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:59.439 a movie that made a lot of interesting choices that 60 00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:03.680 I think a lot of people really resonated with. Heath 61 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:07.319 Ledger as the Joker obviously is a big one. Christopher 62 00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:09.759 Nolan's kind of take on Batman in that movie is 63 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:13.720 also a very interesting take on Batman. Aaron Eckhart as 64 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:17.079 Harvey Dent. I'm not sure Aaron Eckhart has been as 65 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:19.160 good in anything as he was in that movie. And 66 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:22.279 thank you for smoking and in terms of visibility for 67 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:24.600 most people, I think that's the biggest thing Aaron Eckhart 68 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:27.079 was ever in is The Dark Knight For most people. 69 00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:32.240 Enough cannot be said about Gary Oldman as Jim Gordon, 70 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:36.720 so that movie it hits on all cylinders, and it 71 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:39.360 is a movie that I think, as much as I'm 72 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:43.240 maybe not a fan of Nolan's take on Batman, that movie, 73 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:45.759 I think, of the three is the one that has 74 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:49.600 the most interesting things to say about the character of Batman. 75 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:53.800 All of that to say, I watched this movie in 76 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:56.879 theaters and I think, like pretty much everybody else who 77 00:05:56.920 --> 00:06:02.360 saw it, was pretty disappointed. I did not resonate or 78 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:05.720 vibe with this movie the way I resonated with the 79 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:09.040 last film. I think, like I clearly already alluded to, 80 00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:11.519 I enjoyed the Last film when it came out, and 81 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:13.839 I'm not anymore the biggest fan of it, having watched 82 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:17.399 it subsequent times. It's just not my cup of tea anymore. 83 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:20.399 But The Dark Knight Rises is really not my cup 84 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:22.439 of tea. There are parts of it that I appreciate 85 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:25.800 now having rewatched it for your show and having rewatched 86 00:06:25.800 --> 00:06:28.560 it probably two times since it came out. It's not 87 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:30.079 something that I go out of my way to watch. 88 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:32.959 I've definitely seen The Dark Knight more, but when I 89 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:35.639 watched it in theaters, I think that the overall sentiment 90 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:38.800 from everybody who saw it was we waited. 91 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:43.360 Four years for this, and Spencer, how about yourself? 92 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.600 I would echo a lot of what Chris said, but 93 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:49.399 I would add I was there opening night for it, 94 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:53.879 and my laughter was loud enough that I was angrily 95 00:06:54.000 --> 00:07:01.120 shushed repeatedly while watching from barely not even five minutes in. 96 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:03.720 As soon as that awful, I'll go ahead and just 97 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:06.120 say that it's awful. The plane sequence at the beginning, 98 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:07.800 it's not a good action sequence. 99 00:07:07.879 --> 00:07:12.000 It sucks. From very early in the movie. 100 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:16.879 I was laughing and could not stop because the movie 101 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:21.040 was visible. So as to be as fair as possible 102 00:07:21.399 --> 00:07:25.120 to the movie and to be properly armed to talk 103 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:27.480 about it. I've now watched it two more times, and 104 00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:30.600 there are movies I genuinely like that I haven't seen 105 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.759 three times. This is an interesting experience. I will say 106 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:41.199 I still think it's as bad, but I appreciate it. 107 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:43.319 More than I did at the time. 108 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:48.079 I think, having rewatched all three of Nolan's Batman movies, 109 00:07:49.399 --> 00:07:54.600 I do believe that they are all three of them 110 00:07:54.639 --> 00:08:02.480 fairly precient in terms of spotting trends, vibes, things in 111 00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:08.759 the air that have manifested more clearly since with this 112 00:08:08.839 --> 00:08:13.040 particular film. At the time, just because of the accident 113 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:16.639 of when it was released, it was around the time 114 00:08:17.160 --> 00:08:22.800 of occupy, so a lot of people connected occupy with 115 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:28.319 the takeover of the stock market in it, which at 116 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.319 the time, Yeah, obviously a lot of us had thoughts 117 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:34.240 about the stock market. I didn't think was actually a 118 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:39.360 very useful or interesting connection. This time, I wouldn't say 119 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:44.320 that connection got more useful, but thinking about where things 120 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:49.120 have gone and the world of disruptors that have taken 121 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:52.679 over our economy, you know, I didn't see Bane as 122 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:57.240 any kind of legitimate occupy force. That didn't strike me 123 00:08:57.279 --> 00:08:59.480 as a very good analogy then and it doesn't now. 124 00:08:59.559 --> 00:09:04.039 But I do think that there's something about the Silicon 125 00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:08.080 Valley crowd that controls our economy and also will use 126 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:11.720 for all their anti woke kind of statements, they will 127 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:16.240 also use a lot of social justice language to talk 128 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:22.759 a populist game about how AI can make the world 129 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.919 more democratic and stop all the gatekeeping and that kind 130 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:31.519 of a thing. And so this time Bain came across 131 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:36.519 as a little bit more interesting allegory, if not actually a. 132 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:39.919 Better character or a better performance, or. 133 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:44.120 A more purposeful villain within this particular film. All that 134 00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:47.320 to say more appreciation. Actually glad that I watched again. 135 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:52.360 I think these are all interesting historical objects, including Dark 136 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:56.440 Knight rises, but I wouldn't say that appreciation is the 137 00:09:56.440 --> 00:09:58.759 same thing as liking the film anymore. 138 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:04.120 I also saw this first weekend it was out. I 139 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:08.320 loved the Dark Knight, really appreciated what they were doing 140 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:13.480 with Heath Ledger's character, the Joker. I really appreciated that 141 00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:18.600 he was such a mysterious force and just a force 142 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:21.480 of pure chaos. I loved the whole thing, how he 143 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:25.960 kept changing his own backstory with the story about the scars. 144 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:29.320 I loved the whole idea of him wearing that custom 145 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:34.159 made clothing, no labels, no fingerprints on any sort of files, 146 00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:38.120 no DNA on any files, just completely a man without 147 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:41.919 a past showing up to cause havoc and doing it 148 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:48.320 in just a glorious way, and just his performance is riveting. Meanwhile, 149 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:51.919 with Bain, I was so glad that this is a 150 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:55.240 different type of Bane than I had seen in one 151 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:59.639 of the previous Batman movies. We must not forget that 152 00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:03.159 Bay and that was a I think he was part 153 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:05.039 of Poison Ivy's group. 154 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:07.159 He's in Batman and Robin. 155 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:09.360 It was Batman and Robin where he was part of 156 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:12.840 kind of Poison Ivy's crew of people. But mind you 157 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:17.320 never had a single line in the film, which not 158 00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:24.399 necessarily canonically comic book Bain talks plenty in the comic books. Actually, 159 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:27.559 Bain talks all the time, kind of like here right 160 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:30.080 in terms of the way this character is handled as 161 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:37.519 much more akin with more contemporary Scott Capulo type reimaginings 162 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:41.039 of the character, where he's as smart as Batman, but 163 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:45.639 he's also buff jacked and he's on In the comic books, 164 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:48.919 now it's he's on the venom. I don't even think 165 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:51.480 they say what it is here. I think it's just 166 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:54.919 he's on the he's on the Dennis Hopper blue velvet 167 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:57.120 gas as far as we know, like, they don't really 168 00:11:57.159 --> 00:12:00.360 ever go into detail, thankfully, to be fair, Chris Olins 169 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.440 movies are not really interested in some of that stuff anyways. Frankly, 170 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:06.840 they run away from it at full tilt, kind of 171 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:10.480 like those Daniel Craig James Bond movies. That's what these 172 00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:11.080 feel like. 173 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:15.080 If anything, I would really like to have known more 174 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:17.360 about Bain, since they are not trying to make his 175 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:22.200 past a secret, and they give a little bit. I mean, 176 00:12:22.279 --> 00:12:27.080 they kind of give his origin story. Though Batman here 177 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:31.039 is dumb. He's really pretty dumb in this and the 178 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:33.320 way that he just assumes things like as soon as 179 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:37.120 they talk about a prisoner escaping from this crazy prison 180 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:41.200 with no guards and very easily escapable, but we'll talk 181 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:44.080 about that more later. As soon as they talk about that, 182 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:47.240 he's just like Baine, Oh yeah, yeah, that's Baine. That's 183 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:48.039 gotta be Baane. 184 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:48.519 Yeah. 185 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:50.240 I mean he just says the word Bane. He's not 186 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:52.639 giving all of the stuff that I'm doing, but he's 187 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:55.600 just like, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I got everything solved. 188 00:12:55.639 --> 00:12:55.919 Now. 189 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:58.639 It's like, no, you dumbass, you don't have it solved. 190 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:01.519 And why do you just assume that it was Bane 191 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:06.039 that escaped from this prison? Anyway? What's his story? I 192 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:09.559 love his outfit, I love his look. I love that 193 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:13.879 he's got this what is it like an Australian jacket, 194 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:16.720 but it's styled more in the French Revolution. To bring 195 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:18.399 to mind the whole idea of a tale of two 196 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:24.559 cities and I was watching this film. I was literally 197 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:29.440 offended by this film. I don't think that it was 198 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:36.000 too close to the Occupy Wall Street movement. As soon 199 00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:40.080 as they took over the stock market, I was like, Oh, okay, 200 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:42.480 so we're talking about Occupy Wall Street. All right, I 201 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:46.960 got this. And I just kept thinking to myself, this 202 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:51.279 is the writer saying, look at this, liberals, this is 203 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:55.320 what you want. You want mass chaos, You want a band. 204 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:57.840 You need a band to come in and take over 205 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:01.279 for you because you're so weak in an effectual Well, 206 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:04.360 this is what happens. And the whole idea of Catwoman 207 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:08.159 later on, when she's in someone's house, this rich house 208 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:11.399 and her girlfriend question Mark, which also seemed kind of 209 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:13.600 weird because it seems like she swings both ways in 210 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.519 this and it seems like she's being punished for going 211 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:19.720 both ways. It feels like this movie one of the 212 00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:25.639 trajectories of this is to basically heterosexualize Catwoman in this 213 00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:28.399 And once you give up this whole idea of being 214 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.919 bisexual and get rid of Jen and go with Bruce Wayne, 215 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:34.480 then your life will be much better and you can 216 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:38.600 start over again. But until you give up this crazy 217 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:43.440 notion of lesbianism or bisexuality. You are stuck in this world. 218 00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:46.480 This whole idea of her and Jen living in this 219 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:51.720 very posh place after the takeover. It so reminded me 220 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:53.759 of a movie that we talked about together, all my 221 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:56.759 good countrymen, and this whole idea of like the communists 222 00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:59.879 taking over and like being Okay, yeah, here you go, 223 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.360 here's all this nice stuff. We're going to move you 224 00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:05.120 out of here, person that actually owns this house and 225 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:08.799 move in somebody who is more quote unquote deserving of this. 226 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:12.399 So yeah, I was offended then, and I'm even more 227 00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:15.159 offended now as time has gone on, and especially as 228 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.519 I've read more about the Tale of Two Cities. I 229 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.039 tried my best to listen to that book, but it's 230 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:25.080 a lot, and it's like fourteen hours worth of book, 231 00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:27.639 and it was just too much for me to handle 232 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:30.720 at this moment. So I did watch the Thug Notes 233 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:33.559 version of it, and thank God for Thug Notes. I 234 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:34.200 love that guy. 235 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:35.159 Yeah. 236 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:38.399 Seventeen seventy five and Lucy Manee been thinking of pot 237 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:41.320 Doc Manee been dead for a long ass time, but 238 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:44.159 one day where come that he actually been on lockdown 239 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:47.159 in Paris for the past eighteen damn years. 240 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:50.080 Taylor of Two Cities is actually short for Dickens, as 241 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:52.639 I recall, I do remember that one. I haven't read 242 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:54.759 it in years and years, but I remember it fondly 243 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:56.440 from reading in high school. It was one of the 244 00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:58.879 ones that did work for me and really stuck with me. 245 00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:01.120 I thought, I is going to come in breathing the 246 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:03.960 most fire about this movie because I really hate it. 247 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:06.600 I think we're all pretty much on the same kind 248 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:07.159 of page. 249 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:10.600 I guess one thing that I would want to add 250 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:14.039 to this, and this doesn't actually take away from my 251 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:18.440 enjoyment of Batman Begins and The Dark Night, but both 252 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:24.480 of those movies are pretty conservative in their worldview. This 253 00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:28.159 is the main kind of justice argument of those first 254 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:33.039 two movies is pining for a better class of billionaires. 255 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:37.120 That's what's really going to make the world better. And 256 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:40.159 the sort of origin of Batman, which I caught this 257 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:43.519 time in a different way from when I had seen 258 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:46.639 them before. I do think that it's really striking that 259 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:52.840 this is an extremely British class system coded version of Batman. 260 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:58.240 The mansion is very obviously like a Dalton Abbey style 261 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:02.759 kind of thing, and that's not completely foreign from the 262 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:07.960 Bruce Wayne thing, but the origin story that Nolan really 263 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:12.720 filled in some gaps on this version sends Bruce Wayne 264 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:17.200 to be trained, educated in far flowng dark parts of 265 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:21.279 the world to bring that knowledge back. It's a very 266 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:26.279 a nobility engaged in colonialism to gain the best knowledge 267 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:29.160 so that they can be the best people in charge. 268 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:33.279 And that really is very much how Batman as a figure. 269 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:38.279 Batman throughout all his superpower always is money, but very 270 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:41.319 particularly and I think this is smart about these movies 271 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:46.599 is that, like Nolan is onto the class relationships as 272 00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:50.039 class relationships, not just oh, the fantasy if he has 273 00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:51.880 a lot of money so he can buy all this stuff. 274 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:56.200 But this also comes along with a view of the 275 00:17:56.440 --> 00:17:59.640 of how the world is to be run by a 276 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:05.039 kind of hatriarchal nobility. Of course, then the very idea 277 00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:08.680 of occupy or something like it, or of any kind 278 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:13.240 of a left populist uprising is going to be seen 279 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:18.000 as bad news within that kind of worldview. I'm actually 280 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:21.279 willing to take that on its own terms, and those 281 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:26.519 terms are better represented by Catwoman for a brief period 282 00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:31.279 of the movie, even as a wrongheaded, villainous kind of 283 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:37.240 response to class issues. She is a figure who genuinely 284 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:42.960 is of the people. She is coming from the low background, 285 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:46.720 and interestingly, the move over these three films in terms 286 00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:50.599 of crime and how it's represented. The first few movies 287 00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:56.319 really focus on how gangsters coded as being the underclass 288 00:18:56.400 --> 00:19:00.440 coming up into at least a moneyed upper class and 289 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:04.759 fighting with the billionaires and the police. Over the course 290 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:08.799 of these couple of movies, the gangsters are representing the 291 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:13.720 lower and working classes in a cultural class system or 292 00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:16.359 caste system kind of way. They get lots of money, 293 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:20.119 but they have of course, they're lower class people who 294 00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:24.279 have come into that much money through crime, through perfidious behavior. 295 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:27.880 In this third one, it's really interesting to introduce Catwoman 296 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:30.759 because in the previous to its organized crime, she is 297 00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:31.920 disorganized crime. 298 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:33.200 She is the wildcat. 299 00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:36.920 She is the individual from a lower class who is 300 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:40.759 making her way up and is presented in a much 301 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:43.480 more sympathetic light than any of the gangsters in the 302 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:48.440 first couple, and we get a kind of quasi romance 303 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:53.759 getting going. The real problem here is bane within the story. 304 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:58.279 It's not a particularly great Tom Hardy performance. It's limited. 305 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:01.559 As you mentioned, he looks great. The design is great. 306 00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:04.640 The mask looks awesome. The way that Tom Hardy walks 307 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:08.519 and stalks through the movie is actually riveting. But there's 308 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:10.319 just a lot of tools taken away from him as 309 00:20:10.359 --> 00:20:14.079 an actor. All we get front for his face is eyes, 310 00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:16.200 and the role is not very well written. 311 00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:18.559 And in addition to that, the. 312 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:22.759 Voice that he has throughout the movie is pretty poorly 313 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:25.799 altered in post I would say there are a lot 314 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:28.759 of tricks, especially talking through a mask, that you could 315 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:32.599 do to take all that adr and make it sound 316 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:35.480 more like it's within the space with everybody else. 317 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:39.319 It's like they did a better job of adr. 318 00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:42.599 Ing the villain in Madam Webb than they did in 319 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:47.359 this movie, with much more talented people involved in making 320 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:51.839 it happen. But Bain doesn't really he doesn't really track, 321 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:55.160 He doesn't really make sense with this world. And one 322 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:58.960 of the things that's really striking to me and riffing 323 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:01.480 off of what's to you about it, and it's also 324 00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:05.160 offensive to me, there's so much talk about the city 325 00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:09.000 and the people of the city and they're not represented 326 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:13.640 at all. Christopher Nolan can't imagine the people of the city, 327 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.200 even within a plot that provides opportunities that we could 328 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:21.480 have characters who more represent the people of the city. 329 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.759 Catwoman on the straddling the line, but basically it's all 330 00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:30.079 superheroes and billionaires or super villain's superheroes and billionaires. 331 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:34.400 That famous scene of being addressing people and talking about 332 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:38.440 I give it back to you the people. I kept saying, 333 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:42.279 who the fuck is he talking to? Because I rewatched 334 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:44.599 that scene several times and there's like a line of 335 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:48.359 reporters across the street, And first off, he's not using 336 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:50.519 any sort of microphone or anything. I'm just like, how 337 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:52.119 do they even hear him? 338 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:54.920 They can hear him because the adr is magic. 339 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:57.920 It makes his voice more present in every situation than 340 00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:58.359 it should be. 341 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:00.839 Well, do you guys remember the teaser trailer where no 342 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.720 one could understand a word he was saying, and the 343 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:07.319 whole like everybody everywhere online was just like, what the 344 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:10.359 hell is going on? We can't hear a freakin word 345 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.640 this guy said. And so they like went the other 346 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:16.000 way and just were like, Yeah, we're gonna clean this 347 00:22:16.119 --> 00:22:18.200 up and we're going to place this. I mean, it's 348 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:22.200 like Arnest Schwarzenegger's Hercules type of dub over it. Even 349 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:25.319 with that, where's your kind of muffle for a shutter 350 00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:29.359 storing and it's like, okay, great, who are you? 351 00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:33.079 It doesn't matter who we are. 352 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:35.920 What matters is our plan. 353 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:41.240 No one cared who was put on the mask. 354 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:44.279 No one cared who I was, and I put on 355 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:44.920 the mobs. 356 00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:47.839 If I pull that off, will you die? 357 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:50.119 It would be extremely thankful. 358 00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:52.400 You're a big guy for you. 359 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:54.799 If I pull that off, will you die? 360 00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:59.240 It would be extremely painful. You're a big guy for you. 361 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:05.319 Getting caught part of your plan was getting caught part 362 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:05.920 of your plan. 363 00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:12.000 Of course, when I watch Batman begins, I was just like, 364 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:16.480 he's basically joining al Qaeda, like the League of Shadows 365 00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:21.319 is basically he's being radicalized. He's over in another country. 366 00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:24.400 He's basically that guy who left the US and went 367 00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:26.960 over to Afghanistan and joined al Qaeda, you know. 368 00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:30.000 And it's like, right, American Taliban, Yeah. 369 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:32.960 American Taliban is just like what the hell? Like, he 370 00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:35.319 learns all their skills and then he breaks with them 371 00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:37.480 at the very end, and then he decides he's going 372 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:41.359 to do battle with them, and then he comes back 373 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:43.960 over to the United States and he's like, oh, you know, 374 00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:46.839 I'm gonna do this whole thing. I'm going to become Batman, 375 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:52.200 and he relies on all of Wayne Enterprise's secret military 376 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:57.200 contracts because poor Lucius Fox is like stuck someplace and 377 00:23:57.200 --> 00:23:59.559 they're like, oh, you're not even on the books anymore, 378 00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:02.480 like he is. It's the darkest of dark ops that 379 00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:05.839 you could possibly have, and he's using all of this 380 00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:11.000 military grade equipment in order to take care of quote 381 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:14.319 unquote take care of the criminals of Gotham. And it's 382 00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:18.119 so much like And I know that Ferguson was twenty fourteen, 383 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:20.359 this is still twenty twelve, but it so reminds me 384 00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:24.640 of the beginnings of the talks of the militarization of police. 385 00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:27.319 Here we are in twenty twenty five as we're recording 386 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:30.799 this with fucking National Guard out on the streets, you know, 387 00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.799 doing god knows what in fucking ice go our own 388 00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.839 homegrown ss out on the streets. It's like, okay, yeah, 389 00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:41.279 this say is so prescient around that stuff as well. 390 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:44.759 I mean, there was a great article that I read 391 00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:49.799 and this author was quoting another author who said Wayne 392 00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:53.480 Slash Batman is nothing more than a neoliberal tyrant, a 393 00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:57.319 faux philanthropist only too happy to redeem the military contracts 394 00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:01.839 taken on by Wayne Enterprises by righteously using various weapons 395 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:07.720 technologies to protect quote unquote Gotham's imperiled citizenry. To illustrate 396 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:10.839 that the point Toe toh is, the author of the 397 00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:15.599 original quote, points to the film's fetishistic investment in Batman's 398 00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:18.799 militarized tech. I gotta get me one of those grin's 399 00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:23.559 and awestruck Sergeant Gordon Gary Oldman after witnessing Batman's humv 400 00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:26.960 esque vehicle and action. I mean, this is totally the 401 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.960 militarization of the police, or in this case, militarization of 402 00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:32.160 a vigil lante. 403 00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:39.759 Contrast that argument two thousand and let's say eight right, 404 00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:44.039 Dark Knight, with the other film that came out that year, 405 00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:48.160 Iron Man, which is exactly the same thing. And yet 406 00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:51.200 I wouldn't think anyone would be making that kind of 407 00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:54.920 statement against Iron Man as a film because of the 408 00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:58.160 way the character holds himself in the movie. Because Robert 409 00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:01.480 Downey Junior as iron Man and as that character as 410 00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:06.160 Tony Stark, you understand that he understands, at least in 411 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:08.160 the first movie. Now you make the case by the 412 00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:11.559 time age of Ultron rolls around, and we essentially have 413 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:15.079 what we're talking about, what happens in the dark night 414 00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:19.319 with the cameras, the kind of big brother camera eye 415 00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:21.920 in the sky. Now there is a little bit. 416 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.119 Of that I want a suit of armor around this world. 417 00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:29.839 That's essentially what Tony Stark talks about in Age of Ultron. 418 00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:36.119 But it doesn't seem so unpalatable when it's Robert Downey Junior, 419 00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:39.119 because they think Robert Downey junr As Tony Stark the 420 00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:42.880 character versus Bruce Wayne, the character. Tony Stark is a 421 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:47.720 lot more aware of the ramifications of what he's doing 422 00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:51.440 in the greater world, at least in that first Iron 423 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:53.319 Man movie, again only commenting on the movie that comes 424 00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:56.319 out in two thousand and eight. Bruce Wayne is not 425 00:26:56.599 --> 00:27:01.359 like that at all in that two thousand and eight Batman. Subsequently, 426 00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:04.440 in this film, by the end of this film, he's 427 00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:07.319 been knocked down all the way back down to nothing, 428 00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:09.960 and he comes back with a literal jet that he's 429 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:13.720 flying around in like we have the ultimate militarization of 430 00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:16.799 Batman by the end of this movie. Having a car 431 00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:19.160 is one thing, and we know Batman has a batwing, 432 00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:21.839 so it's not like this is a thing that we 433 00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:24.480 don't know about, or that's some sort of new creation 434 00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:29.400 not in the comic books. But this version of it 435 00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:33.119 is really I wouldn't say it's unpalatable, but just it's 436 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:38.480 not what has aged well in a time where this 437 00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:41.319 is now just the way things are. And I'm not 438 00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:48.359 sure seeing Batman coppaganda really feels great. It didn't feel 439 00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:51.279 great at the time, I'm sure, but it was more 440 00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:54.480 of a we're getting there, not we're there now, and 441 00:27:54.519 --> 00:27:58.359 this is just a reinforcement of that kind of over 442 00:27:58.400 --> 00:27:58.839 and over. 443 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.440 I was thinking of Iron Man while I was watching 444 00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:06.799 The Dark Night when there's that moment of Aaron Eckhart 445 00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:09.920 as Harvey Dent and he says, I'm the Batman, and 446 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:12.759 I'm just thinking like, okay, you know, because that movie's 447 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:15.000 all about fake outs and stuff, and there's the ultimate 448 00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:18.240 fake out at the end when they say, oh, Harvey's 449 00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:21.920 at this address, and Maggie Joeen Hall's at this other address, 450 00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:25.319 Rachel is at this other address, and then they purposefully 451 00:28:25.480 --> 00:28:27.839 say that one's going to one place and the other's 452 00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:29.680 going to the other. But then they lie to us. 453 00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:31.720 And I don't know why the film has to lie 454 00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:34.359 to this. I've watched that scene many times. I'm just like, wait, 455 00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:36.960 he says he's going to take care of Rachel and 456 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:40.640 sending Jim over to take care of of Harvey. So 457 00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:45.160 why do they switch? Like there's anyway, small potatoes. 458 00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.000 He knew who he would choose, so Poker is just 459 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:50.160 double blinding him. Yeah. 460 00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:52.680 I read that as the Joker wanting to hurt him 461 00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:56.200 more in that way that the Joker is lying in 462 00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:59.720 order to give that extra pain. And also in a 463 00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:03.400 way what Batman is doing at that moment is personally 464 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.519 oriented rather than civically oriented. It's a punishment for him 465 00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:11.319 to give into the personal over the civic. But all 466 00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:14.480 this can sound like beating up on all three of 467 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:17.039 the movies, and I think there's good reason too, if 468 00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:20.720 you really like ideologically this stuff is it does not 469 00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:26.480 represent all the ways that I believe or ideally see 470 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:29.359 stories that said I'm enough of an adult to like 471 00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:32.440 look at this and go, Okay, this is a really 472 00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:37.160 interesting potent myth delivered on the first two movies twice 473 00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:41.359 in ways that I don't necessarily agree with, but that 474 00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:46.799 I find entertaining interesting and also is articulating a politics 475 00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:50.200 that is very real, and that needs to be acknowledged. 476 00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:54.480 That the neoliberal take on how to solve our problems, 477 00:29:54.519 --> 00:29:58.160 how to solve crime using crime as a proxy for 478 00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:00.920 politics more generally in these films. 479 00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:04.079 That's a purpose of storytelling, that's a purpose of movies. 480 00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:08.640 And I can appreciate this stuff well disagreeing, but the 481 00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:13.519 third one, it's incoherent. And to go back to this 482 00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:17.519 business of Bain making that speech about I'm gonna return 483 00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:20.240 Gotham to the I'm not gonna try to imitate him. 484 00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:30.400 We take Gotham from the corrupt, the oppressors of generations 485 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:34.960 who have kept you down with myths of opportunity, and 486 00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:42.960 we give it back to you, the people. Gotham is nors, 487 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:47.039 none shall into Finn do as you please. 488 00:30:48.039 --> 00:30:51.160 It's not even a lie, it's not even an interesting lie. 489 00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:54.759 It's an incoherent grabbed out of the sky, a bit 490 00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:58.599 of animus against against a kind of populist movement, because 491 00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:02.839 there's really there's nothing about Baine that represents such a 492 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:05.440 point of view. Yeah, he comes from low origins, but 493 00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:08.960 the low origins are also fantastical. This like the deepest, 494 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:12.319 darkest prison in the far away place, which then somehow 495 00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:14.599 is what just outside of town in the third act 496 00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:17.240 where Bruce Wayne is stuck there and then once he 497 00:31:17.359 --> 00:31:19.559 climbs out, he's able to get back into Gotham like 498 00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:23.319 really quickly. But that last season, in the last couple 499 00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:25.279 of seasons of Game of Thrones, where people are getting 500 00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:28.240 across the world really fast and time doesn't make sense 501 00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:32.519 anymore after a certain point. But what bugs me is 502 00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:37.119 that it's incoherent, and it's incoherent in a context where 503 00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:41.480 the first act really sets us up. Bain's appearance is notwithstanding, 504 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:45.279 really sets us up for something that could be an 505 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:50.440 interesting battle between the neoliberal and the populist if we 506 00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:53.839 were just focused on Batman and Catwoman, and even more 507 00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:58.839 than that, really interesting to sexualize that kind of relationship, 508 00:31:58.920 --> 00:32:01.920 or at least romanticize it, have the two of them 509 00:32:01.960 --> 00:32:04.599 in battle when they've got a kind of romance going on. 510 00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:09.160 And why can't Catwoman be the big bad of this movie? 511 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:12.240 Why can't Catwoman rate the stock market on, behalf of 512 00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:14.839 the people the people? 513 00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:17.000 Why can't she do those things? 514 00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:21.079 Because Christopher Nolan can't imagine an ordinary person like within 515 00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:24.400 these stories, He cannot imagine an ordinary person who could 516 00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:27.119 become a genuine threat to the status quo. 517 00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:31.079 You can't even imagine a genuine person being involved in 518 00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:35.759 this story to begin with. Look at Joseph Gordon Levitt, 519 00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:41.079 who I don't really comprehend his involvement in this movie 520 00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:43.720 other than they were like what they were doing the 521 00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:47.240 whole Benedict Cumberbatch is totally not gone of this movie, 522 00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:49.640 and they knew there was never anything like that was 523 00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:54.359 ever going to happen. And it just seems so strange 524 00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:56.759 to me. And it's and again, like Chris Nolan, I 525 00:32:56.880 --> 00:33:00.440 just don't Chris Nolan works best when the pieces are big, 526 00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:03.039 and the stage is big, and the moves are broad, 527 00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:06.400 and he's making big, broad choices. Look, he is no 528 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:09.839 different than someone whose foot is permanently now apparently in 529 00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:14.640 his mouth, Quentin Tarantino. He works best when the choices 530 00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:16.960 are big, the pieces are big, the stage is big, 531 00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:20.480 and he's the one moving the pieces around. And you 532 00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:22.359 know what, there's something to be said for a director 533 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:26.039 who knows that and is that way, because not everybody 534 00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:30.559 is wants to be or can be. And just because 535 00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:34.920 these guys are doesn't mean I'm I bemoan that or 536 00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:37.519 pooh that or look down on that. But that also 537 00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:40.720 means the decisions that they make are so specifically their 538 00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:44.640 own that I sometimes just go probably made sense to you, 539 00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:47.559 but I'm not sure it makes sense to me. And 540 00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:51.359 that's again subjectivity versus objectivity perfectly fine as far as 541 00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:53.960 I'm concerned, as long as you can explain away why 542 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:55.000 you've made the choice. 543 00:33:55.759 --> 00:33:58.240 First off, Catwoman can't be the big bad of this 544 00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:02.000 movie because the Nolan brothers and Goyer cannot write female 545 00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:06.240 characters as we see by her as well as Talia 546 00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:10.719 al Ghoul Like, they just can't do it. Second off, 547 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:12.559 I want to go back to Iron Man real quick, 548 00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:16.519 because Iron Man at the beginning of the movie is 549 00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:18.800 at that whole like, well, that's how Dad did it, 550 00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:21.400 you know, Like he's so beholden to his father, and 551 00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:24.679 he's so beholden to his father's legacy and all these things, 552 00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:28.519 and he is hoisted on his own Patard. I mean, 553 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:33.320 he's blown up by something from Stark Industries. And I 554 00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:35.000 can't say he has a change of heart because he 555 00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:37.320 basically has no heart at the end of the movie. 556 00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:41.079 It's all like replaced by mechanics. But he has a 557 00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:43.639 change of heart and wants to go back and he 558 00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:47.360 wants to get his burger King cheeseburger. Nice product placement there, 559 00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:50.440 and then says, okay, Obadiah, I need to tear down 560 00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:52.519 the walls of this whole place. We are not doing 561 00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:56.880 this whole weapons thing anymore. And Batman doesn't have that 562 00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:00.000 change of heart. There is no, he's not very much 563 00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:04.920 much a dynamic character. He basically makes that idea to 564 00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:08.079 change very early on, and Batman begins and then just 565 00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:10.360 kind of stays the same character for the rest of it. 566 00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:14.159 And when it comes to even like his redemption arc 567 00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:17.920 in this film where he gets literally broken by Bain 568 00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:21.400 and gets thrown into that prison. Yeah, half a world away, 569 00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:23.920 and then comes back half a world again, like I 570 00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:26.000 don't know why Bain has to take him back to 571 00:35:26.119 --> 00:35:29.159 that prison, make sure that the prison has closed circuit 572 00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:33.920 television so he can watch what's going on in Gotham 573 00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:38.480 at all times, gets this spine realigned by Tom Conti, 574 00:35:38.679 --> 00:35:43.559 and then easily climbs out again. It's like all right, anyway, 575 00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:45.880 when he comes back, he doesn't have a new plan. 576 00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:50.599 He just punches Baine harder. There's not any sort of like, well, 577 00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:54.199 I'm going to do this thing in order to weaken 578 00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:57.679 Baine or do anything. Basically, it's I'm going to punch 579 00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:00.199 Baine in the face as hard as I can. I'm 580 00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:03.199 going to break that mask. That's his plan. That's his 581 00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:06.960 wonderful plan that he has. And I don't understand Talia 582 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:11.960 al Ghoul's plan either, because, first off, I don't know 583 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:14.599 if it's a neutron bomb or a nuclear bomb, because 584 00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:17.280 I swear they say both, and there's a big difference 585 00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:21.719 between those two. Either way, everybody's dying, including the people 586 00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:25.199 that are driving around with this fucking bomb, including you know, 587 00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:28.079 having Talia al Ghoul and Bane on the same island 588 00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:30.719 and we have I can't say it's a ticking clock 589 00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:33.599 because it seems to speed up towards the end. You're 590 00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:36.760 talking about how time has no meaning in this. It's like, okay, 591 00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:40.079 it's going to this bomb is going to detonate in 592 00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:45.159 approximately five months. We cut ahead. I don't know how 593 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:48.079 quickly they do that, but they're like, okay, now it's 594 00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:52.599 twenty three days. Now, it's a day. Now, it's five hours, now, 595 00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:55.599 it's ten minutes. And I'm just like, what the fuck 596 00:36:55.679 --> 00:36:57.599 is going on with this thing? Like what is this 597 00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:00.599 weird ticking clock that you have? And why do you 598 00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:04.159 want this bomb to go off while you're on this island? 599 00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:07.559 You have no escape plan, Talia, You're gonna go up 600 00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:09.320 with this thing, But. 601 00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:12.599 Her reasoning doesn't oh because this was Raza Gul's plan 602 00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:15.559 at some earlier point, and which makes its own sort 603 00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:20.480 of sense. In Batman begins, We're gonna do this again, 604 00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:25.000 but there's no better reasoning behind it than my dad 605 00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:28.599 meant to take out this city. Bain's populist talk is 606 00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:31.920 just talk for a period of the movie, while they 607 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:34.079 then do this strange thing of kicking the rich people 608 00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:37.039 out of their houses and catwomen can take over one. 609 00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:41.800 These elements don't cohere, they don't make sense, and within 610 00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:46.440 the context of larger Batman, they don't necessarily always have to. 611 00:37:46.519 --> 00:37:49.360 And then here's probably my hottest take on this movie. 612 00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:53.320 Anne Hathaway is the only good thing about it. You're right, Mike, 613 00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:57.559 these guys can't write a female character. But Anne Hathaway 614 00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:01.840 has shown up. She know what this movie actually is, 615 00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:06.800 which is absurd, and she plays a kind of fun 616 00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:11.159 quasi camp absurdity as the character. I think she's a 617 00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:14.800 pretty great catwoman she's the most riveting presence for me 618 00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:17.920 in the whole in the whole film, But she seems 619 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:21.159 to understand that what we've arrived at is the kind 620 00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:24.440 of incoherence and absurdity that you can do in a 621 00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:28.159 Tim Burton Batman movie and get away with it, because 622 00:38:28.519 --> 00:38:33.199 that's more psychological. That's also not realism. That's about the 623 00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:38.960 like bouncing off of each other of crazy people. Here's 624 00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:42.559 another hot take. I think Batman Forever is maybe the 625 00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:46.960 second best Batman movie, the first of the Joel Schudenmacher's. 626 00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:50.559 The second one is terrible, but on this level of 627 00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:55.280 just being like embracing the fun of absurdity and not 628 00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:59.320 asking us to take it particularly seriously. The first two 629 00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:03.159 Nolan movies earn a fair bit of the seriousness and 630 00:39:03.239 --> 00:39:07.199 earn a fair bit of their quasi realist Batman aesthetic. 631 00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:12.159 Tim Burton obviously is on his own aesthetic path, one 632 00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:16.719 kind of psycho sexual horniness. Joel Schumacher takes up from 633 00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:19.440 there and does his own little version of more candy 634 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:22.159 colored psycho sexual horniness with Batman. 635 00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:24.599 And you don't have to have a whole lot of logic. 636 00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:26.960 I don't want to come off like a cinema sins 637 00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:30.559 kind of guy talking about this movie. But the style 638 00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:34.840 and the faux seriousness or the real seriousness that they're 639 00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:38.360 asking of us is not matched in the way that 640 00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:42.360 like the plot and allegory are being carried out, and 641 00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:45.880 so then it's just not as fun. And then on 642 00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:48.119 top of it, the action sequences in this movie are 643 00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:48.880 not very good. 644 00:39:49.559 --> 00:39:51.119 They're just they're not as good as in the other 645 00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:51.920 Batman movies. 646 00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:55.039 It's I feel like Nolan's pretty much out of ideas 647 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:58.800 for what to do with the premise. The only one 648 00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:02.039 that kind of visually has some real half does the 649 00:40:02.679 --> 00:40:06.320 football game where the field collapses under everybody. 650 00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:09.119 That's and that one that one. 651 00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:11.920 Feels a little bit more in the crazy yess world 652 00:40:11.960 --> 00:40:16.280 of Tim Burton or a Joel Schumacher Batman like conceptually 653 00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:21.199 as a thing to happen. It's not the beautiful, clean 654 00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:25.280 chase that we get in in the dark night in 655 00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:29.840 Lower Whacker that then comes out and we get a 656 00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:35.079 real eighteen wheeler ass over tea kettle on a major 657 00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:40.880 street that is beautiful, beautifully executed. I've read criticism of, oh, 658 00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:42.719 they're crossing a line in these parts of it, and 659 00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:45.719 it's no, Nolan has actually set up that sequence so 660 00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:48.840 cleanly that we understand where we are every time it 661 00:40:48.920 --> 00:40:51.920 quote unquote crosses the line you're being a patant about 662 00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:55.039 this kind of thing. Nolan is capable and has shown 663 00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:58.159 us big action sequences in the other ones, and this 664 00:40:58.199 --> 00:41:01.840 one doesn't even have particularly good action sequences. The biggest 665 00:41:01.880 --> 00:41:05.400 idea is one that like might actually be better executed 666 00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:10.159 by Joel Schumacher. Bigger, more ridiculous, funnier with a football game, 667 00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:13.000 more homo erotic, bring the fun. 668 00:41:13.639 --> 00:41:17.199 But this is a movie where it's absurd and bad ways. 669 00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:18.880 But yeah, I would. 670 00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:22.159 I'll just come back to Ann Hathaway as Catwoman, and 671 00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:25.559 I'm not an Ana Hathaway super fan, but in this movie, 672 00:41:25.599 --> 00:41:28.559 she's the only thing that's fun, and she's the only 673 00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:30.840 one who seems to get that the absurdity is something 674 00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:33.199 that you can you can dance upon. 675 00:41:34.239 --> 00:41:37.239 So she's playing this meek, meek maid at the beginning 676 00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:40.679 when we first see her, and then when Bruce Wayne 677 00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:45.400 catches her stealing those pearls and he says like, oh, 678 00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:48.639 blah blah blah, this uncrackable safe, her face does this 679 00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:53.320 little change from I'm the meek maid to I Am Catwoman, 680 00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:57.280 and it's so well done and so nice. Ah, I 681 00:41:57.320 --> 00:42:00.719 love it. And though I have to say, while I 682 00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:03.960 love this shot, the shot of her bending over her 683 00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:09.159 bike is so gratuitous and so male gaze, I'm just like, 684 00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:12.519 I feel a little dirty for watching this. I mean, 685 00:42:12.559 --> 00:42:15.199 I appreciate as a man, as a heterosexual man, I 686 00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:20.239 appreciate that a lot, but it just was a little much. 687 00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:22.880 It was just like almost like bending over towards the 688 00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:25.320 camera and pushing her boobs together or something. I was 689 00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:28.360 just like, wow, oh, all right, And I have to 690 00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:32.880 say that this movie isn't really even that well made. 691 00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:35.840 And yeah, again I don't so first off, sorry to 692 00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:39.480 stop the whole show here. I don't like to pick 693 00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:42.280 on movies. I think we've only ever done one movie 694 00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:44.719 where I kind of knew it was bad, and that 695 00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:48.519 was Battlefield Earth. But I tried my best to be 696 00:42:48.679 --> 00:42:51.719 as fair and not judgmental as I possibly could. It 697 00:42:51.760 --> 00:42:54.199 was kind of impossible with that movie and this one. 698 00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:56.519 It's like, I'm sorry, but I feel like we're kind 699 00:42:56.559 --> 00:42:59.039 of loaded for a duck right now, and it's like, eh, 700 00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:01.519 I feel a little bad, but I've been mad about 701 00:43:01.559 --> 00:43:04.440 this movie since twenty twelve, So I guess the other 702 00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:07.239 one was Contact. I kind of did this with Contact, 703 00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:09.119 and at least with this one, I don't have, like 704 00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:11.960 the producer, one of the stars, all these people on 705 00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:14.199 here for them to get offended by me ripping apart 706 00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:16.840 the movie. But I've wanted to talk about this and 707 00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:18.440 I'm so glad to be in a room full of 708 00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:22.440 like minded people to discuss this right now. So I 709 00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:26.119 appreciate that guy. So just audience at home, I'm sorry, 710 00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:28.519 this is just the way this one's shaken out. Hopefully 711 00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:31.440 you're enjoying this discussion as much as I am, because 712 00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:34.239 it's so refreshing to be able to talk so openly 713 00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:37.000 about this movie because so many people are just like, oh, yeah, 714 00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:40.199 it's so good. Bain's so good. But anyway, going back 715 00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:43.239 to the actual nuts and bolts of the film, there's 716 00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:46.599 some weird things in like The Dark Night, Like the 717 00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:49.920 whole death of Michael Jay White is very very strange 718 00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:52.719 in there, and I guess there's a whole scene where 719 00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:55.000 he had a scar but instead he just kind of 720 00:43:55.159 --> 00:44:00.199 flops over. And in this one, after Catwoman blow was 721 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:04.079 up that wall that I guess is keeping the police, 722 00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:06.840 all of the police except for like four people. All 723 00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:09.199 the police down in the shoers. Like she blows up 724 00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:12.880 a wall. The camera just lingers on that for like 725 00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:14.880 the longest time, and I'm just like, are we supposed 726 00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:15.679 to be seeing something? 727 00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:15.760 Like? 728 00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:17.880 What the hell's going on? This just feels kind of 729 00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:21.280 sloppy and not put together very well. Like I was 730 00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:24.239 talking about the confusion around the timeline. I don't need 731 00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:27.440 I don't need fucking Dunkirk subtitles to come up and 732 00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:29.719 tell me how time is moving slowly, and I don't 733 00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:31.840 need this movie to run backwards or something. But I'm 734 00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:34.440 just like, I would like a little bit more knowledge 735 00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:37.760 as far as how much time has passed, in a 736 00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:41.719 much better way than random things about when this bomb 737 00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:43.440 is going to mysteriously go off. 738 00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:45.480 I think the best way to tell the story is 739 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:50.039 by starting at the end briefly, then going back to 740 00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:54.280 the beginning the periodically returning to the end, maybe giving 741 00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:57.800 different characters perspectives throughout, just to get a good bit 742 00:44:57.800 --> 00:45:00.000 of dynamism. Otherwise it's just sort of a linear story. 743 00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:05.400 There's a lot of editing in this that feels like 744 00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:08.360 they maybe they just didn't have time to finish, maybe 745 00:45:08.440 --> 00:45:12.280 the release date that that happens. There are bigger problems 746 00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:14.719 with this movie than that, But there there are a 747 00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:16.320 lot of There are a lot of fade outs that 748 00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:17.239 are awkward, that. 749 00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:19.400 Are what's that's how we're going to get to the 750 00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:22.480 next scene. There's the awkwardness right out of the gate 751 00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:23.400 the very beginning. 752 00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:28.440 We kind of open in the midst of Harvey dent 753 00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:31.599 funeral and we get out very quickly, and then go 754 00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:34.119 to Bane and the plane and all that kind of stuff, 755 00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:37.280 and then come back to another Harvey Dent event years 756 00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:40.480 later and the first one. If Harvey Dent isn't coming 757 00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:43.480 back from the dead as the major villain of this film, 758 00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:46.719 why is this the opening gambit? Why is this the 759 00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:49.280 first moment of the film. They're going to talk about 760 00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:50.920 them a whole lot, but why is this the most 761 00:45:50.960 --> 00:45:55.519 important thing to open with? That doesn't track, That doesn't 762 00:45:55.559 --> 00:45:59.079 make sense on a screenwriting level. This it feels to 763 00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:02.480 me like at minimum a hat on a hat that, 764 00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:05.320 like Batman has disappeared for eight years, and also the 765 00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:08.559 Bruce Wayne has become for the past eight years in 766 00:46:08.599 --> 00:46:13.039 between the films, a recluse, and it sets me wondering Oh, 767 00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:15.440 if Bruce Wayne has been a recluse for the last 768 00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:18.199 eight years while Batman has been completely gone, how is 769 00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:21.360 it that nobody but Joseph Gordon Levitt could figure out 770 00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:24.039 that Batman and Bruce Wayne are the same guy. So 771 00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:26.440 not only does it feel to me like a first 772 00:46:26.559 --> 00:46:30.920 draft scripting doubling up of one idea and you got 773 00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:35.280 a Jennison one or the other of them. Obviously because 774 00:46:35.320 --> 00:46:37.679 of the continuity from the first the one to Jennison 775 00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:42.440 is Bruce Wayne being a Howard Hughes type recluse to 776 00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:45.840 everybody thinks has eight inch fingernails. 777 00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:47.760 So that's the one that you get rid of. 778 00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:52.599 But it raises really big plausibility questions out of the gate, 779 00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:56.280 and there's plausibility within the entire series where there are 780 00:46:56.320 --> 00:46:56.840 people in. 781 00:46:56.800 --> 00:46:58.960 Each one of these that figure out who Batman is. 782 00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:02.760 Where it really does make me wonder why doesn't everybody 783 00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:03.519 know who Batman is? 784 00:47:03.519 --> 00:47:05.639 They don't seem they don't see that much. 785 00:47:05.480 --> 00:47:09.599 Smarter necessarily than everybody else, And somehow they've seen through 786 00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:12.320 in it, particularly in the Dark Night, there's that guy, 787 00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:17.559 the like flunky within Wayne enterprises who figures it out, 788 00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:21.079 and then Lucius Fox shoots him down with do you 789 00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:25.360 really want to take on this big billionaire? And that 790 00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:27.400 guy's part of the plot seems like it doesn't really 791 00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:32.119 work out very well, a flaw within within Dark Knight. 792 00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:34.079 But it's like one of those things that runs through 793 00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:37.960 all this and becomes the most sort of silly and absurd. 794 00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:41.159 In the third one out of all of them. And 795 00:47:41.320 --> 00:47:44.199 there's just a lot of writing that's like that. 796 00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:48.840 Again, it's weird to it's weird to point to Tim 797 00:47:48.840 --> 00:47:53.400 Burton's Batman Returns, which has multiple villains, or the Schumacher 798 00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:57.599 Batman Forever, which has multiple villains. Those are movies that 799 00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:02.519 are not expecting as much of the world as a 800 00:48:02.599 --> 00:48:08.239 kind of social field to be realistically rendered, and so 801 00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:11.559 then having too many villains here, and there are so 802 00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:14.679 many villains. Matthew Modine in a way as yet another villain. 803 00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:17.000 I don't know why he's in this movie. I don't 804 00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:21.519 know what his character as the follow up to Oldman 805 00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:24.559 as Commissioner Gordon. I don't get what that really buys 806 00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:27.239 us in the scheme of things. I don't think that 807 00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:30.519 he's necessary. He's the kind of character again that you 808 00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:34.239 jettison a couple of drafts into it, and so we 809 00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:38.400 have this, we have this script that feels like a 810 00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:41.639 first or first and a half after studio notes kind 811 00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:44.679 of draft that they've then expensively shot, and then they 812 00:48:44.679 --> 00:48:46.880 got into the editing room and they didn't spend enough time, 813 00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:51.400 and there's all this there's all this kind of janky 814 00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:56.920 cutting and janky structural decision making that makes it weird 815 00:48:57.159 --> 00:49:00.440 and difficult movie to follow, while also being like two 816 00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:01.960 hours and forty five minutes long. 817 00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:04.239 I know that superhero movies are now. 818 00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:08.360 Our form of opera, and so they're gonna run long. 819 00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:13.239 They're like Shakespearean tragedy within our culture. We can draw 820 00:49:13.239 --> 00:49:16.360 our conclusions about what that says about us. But nevertheless, 821 00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:19.000 that's the thing. But it really does feel like an 822 00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:24.639 excessively long two hours and forty five minutes, overstuffed in 823 00:49:24.679 --> 00:49:29.000 most respects and then underfed wherever it counts, and it 824 00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:31.280 makes it a tough thing to wrestle with. I guess 825 00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:34.320 I've just been picking on it and trouncing, So I'll 826 00:49:34.360 --> 00:49:36.679 just say with that, I don't know, Maybe they are 827 00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:39.599 interesting aspects of it that bad are good, are like 828 00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:43.199 more exciting to wrestle with than just bad movie. 829 00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:47.960 Chris, you talked about, you know how big Nolan swings, 830 00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:50.280 and you compared them to Tarantino. I would say that 831 00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:54.559 Christopher Nolan is the Michael Bay of the New Yorker crowd. 832 00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:58.239 You know, it just feels like he's a lot of times, 833 00:49:58.280 --> 00:50:01.440 this whole I'm going to tell the story backwards type 834 00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:04.280 of thing just feels like obfuscation. I mean, especially when 835 00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:06.920 you come to something like Tenet, where you're just like, 836 00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:10.519 what are you doing? Like this really does not add 837 00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:14.000 anything to this story. I would say that Dunkirk does 838 00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:16.480 the same thing, where it's just like, I don't care 839 00:50:16.519 --> 00:50:19.119 that you're stretching out time over here and condensing time 840 00:50:19.159 --> 00:50:21.440 over there. Learn to tell a better story. 841 00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:25.840 The thing that just keeps reminding me so much of 842 00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:30.400 these movies are those late and again I wouldn't say 843 00:50:30.440 --> 00:50:33.320 No Time to Die so much, but definitely this movie 844 00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:39.239 really reminds me of Specter. You go from something like Skyfall, 845 00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:41.679 which I'm not a huge fan of. I know that 846 00:50:41.719 --> 00:50:45.039 there are people that are huge fans of Skyfall. I'm 847 00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:46.440 not as big of a fan of the Dark Knight 848 00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:48.400 as I used to be, but there are people that 849 00:50:48.440 --> 00:50:50.239 are still huge fans of it still love it. So 850 00:50:50.519 --> 00:50:53.000 I look at Skyfall, I look at The Dark Knight 851 00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:55.559 as similar movies. Then I look at this movie as 852 00:50:55.599 --> 00:50:59.320 the follow up to Skyfall the way Specter was, and 853 00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:01.519 this movie is the follow up to The Dark Knight. 854 00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:06.400 And neither of these movies do anything to serve that 855 00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:09.159 narrative set down in the movie before, and in a 856 00:51:09.159 --> 00:51:13.599 lot of ways, it corrupts what was so good about 857 00:51:13.639 --> 00:51:18.719 the franchise, at least the better parts. Ultimately, this movie 858 00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:22.079 even goes as far as to say the Talia al 859 00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:25.679 Ghoul character, who is not revealed to be Talia al 860 00:51:25.719 --> 00:51:30.920 Ghoul until the third act of the film, is essentially 861 00:51:30.920 --> 00:51:33.440 the and the League of Shadows have been the villains 862 00:51:33.519 --> 00:51:37.079 this whole time, and not even in the last movie. 863 00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:40.079 But there's they're the overriding villains throughout all of this 864 00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:42.800 because again it follows the Scream three rules, and we're 865 00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:45.920 gonna go back in retcon some things and make some 866 00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:49.199 things again work here that wouldn't have necessarily worked it. 867 00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:51.840 They didn't plan in the first movie that the third 868 00:51:51.880 --> 00:51:54.719 movie was going to have a return to form or 869 00:51:54.760 --> 00:51:57.679 a return to Rozel Ghoul. There was no need to 870 00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:00.840 return to the Rozel Ghul story, frankly, and I guess 871 00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:03.440 that's my issue. Is in Inspector we have that same 872 00:52:03.480 --> 00:52:06.199 thing with Christoph Waltz being like, I am the author 873 00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:09.800 of your pain, James, and everything has been my kind 874 00:52:09.880 --> 00:52:13.280 of doing here. And it's even they do it worse 875 00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:18.920 there they go, even Mad's Michelson and even Javier Bardem's 876 00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:22.760 character and the character the villain from Quantumus Olus. Yeah, 877 00:52:22.840 --> 00:52:26.719 all of them are. They're all Quantum, but that's actually 878 00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:29.800 Specter and it's been me this whole time, Like this 879 00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:33.880 movie has shades of that, and it's just I don't 880 00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:36.280 know why we have to keep doing the thing that 881 00:52:36.360 --> 00:52:40.000 a movie from the early two thousands as a horror 882 00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:44.599 movie pointed out that we are ret cunning our own franchise, 883 00:52:44.679 --> 00:52:47.800 our own rules, our own history, and there's no need, 884 00:52:47.960 --> 00:52:51.599 There's nothing is gained. Frankly, all it does is hurt 885 00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:55.079 the series overall. Even look at the most recent Star 886 00:52:55.119 --> 00:53:01.159 Wars film, Emperor Palpatine is back. Why Why somehow Palpatine 887 00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:04.920 returned somehow? And it's the same thing here. It's like, 888 00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:09.679 why is Talia al Ghoul? Why is rozoh Ghoul? Why 889 00:53:09.800 --> 00:53:11.639 is any of that being brought up in this third 890 00:53:11.679 --> 00:53:14.960 movie when it's been clear that we don't like with 891 00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:18.199 the last movie, we don't need some and again I 892 00:53:18.199 --> 00:53:21.039 think it's probably that most apt comparison with the James 893 00:53:21.079 --> 00:53:23.480 Bond of it all. We don't need a James Bond 894 00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:27.840 level threat with Batman. Batman is at his best for 895 00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:32.480 me when he's fighting someone who is dangerous to him specifically, 896 00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:35.679 not the city at large. And that's the thing. I 897 00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:38.360 know that this is based off of the Nightfall storyline, 898 00:53:38.559 --> 00:53:42.840 which is about Gotham being essentially isolated from the rest 899 00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:45.920 of the world. That's what this storyline is. However, that 900 00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:49.320 works in a comic book. In a movie, it's kind 901 00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:52.760 of hope key James Bond and Batman. While yes they 902 00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:56.840 are both smart and charming and debonair, I guess Bruce 903 00:53:56.840 --> 00:54:01.280 Wayne is maybe not so much Batman. The villainization of 904 00:54:01.360 --> 00:54:05.719 a James Bond character into a Batman villain doesn't really 905 00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:09.440 work because Batman doesn't need to be a world ending threat, 906 00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:12.159 not unless he's part of the Justice League. And this 907 00:54:12.280 --> 00:54:16.920 version of Batman would not work with any other version 908 00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:19.800 of Superman other than the one that we get created 909 00:54:19.880 --> 00:54:23.800 by Chris Nolan and pals for Zack Snyder. We didn't 910 00:54:23.800 --> 00:54:26.679 get a sequel to this movie, but we technically did 911 00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:30.519 because the tone of this movie and these Nolan movies. 912 00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:34.119 Everybody wants to say it's Zack Snyder's fault, it's actually 913 00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:37.679 Chris Nolan's fault too. Man of Steele's tone is actually 914 00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:41.199 more influenced by this that it's influenced by anything else. 915 00:54:41.480 --> 00:54:45.119 And again, I feel like the self serious James Bond 916 00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:49.360 Casino Reyal worked Quantum Osolas works for me. Beyond that, 917 00:54:49.480 --> 00:54:54.199 it doesn't Batman. Batman begins in Dark Knight Rises. Dark 918 00:54:54.239 --> 00:54:57.159 Knight works for me. Dark Knight Rises doesn't, and anything 919 00:54:57.159 --> 00:54:59.360 past Dark Knight Rises doesn't work for me either, which 920 00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:03.599 includes Man of Steel and all of those other DCEU movies, 921 00:55:03.880 --> 00:55:06.199 because again, the tone of Man of Steel comes from 922 00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:09.480 this movie, and the tone of those movies comes from 923 00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:12.519 that Casino Reale movie that made so much money, and 924 00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:16.320 being so self serious with these fun things can work. 925 00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:19.679 I just don't think Chris Nolan is the right person 926 00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:21.920 to tell that story. I think that there are other 927 00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:24.880 people who could tell a serious story with Batman that 928 00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:29.079 doesn't betray the character completely. And that's how you get 929 00:55:29.079 --> 00:55:33.760 something like the Batman film that Matt Reeves directed and wrote. 930 00:55:33.760 --> 00:55:36.800 That's more akin to what this should have been. If 931 00:55:36.840 --> 00:55:38.960 you're going to talk about the world, if you're gonna 932 00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:42.400 talk about the community of Batman and the world of Gotham. 933 00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:46.239 The new Batman film really leans into it in an 934 00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:48.800 interesting and fun way, and it talks about there is 935 00:55:48.880 --> 00:55:51.239 a little bit of the kind of us versus them, 936 00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:53.599 the one percent versus the ninety nine percent. There is 937 00:55:53.639 --> 00:55:56.199 some of that in the new Matt Reeves Batman movie. 938 00:55:56.320 --> 00:55:58.800 This movie can't figure out how to do it well 939 00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:04.960 because these writers don't really have the capability to understand 940 00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:08.679 the nuance necessary to tell that story. And that's always 941 00:56:08.679 --> 00:56:11.960 been the case with Chris Nolan. Similarly to Quentin Tarantino, 942 00:56:12.280 --> 00:56:15.079 you work better in big strokes. The smaller strokes don't 943 00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:18.960 really work because that's not really your forte. Your forte 944 00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:22.840 is telling a big story with big choices, big decisions, 945 00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:25.239 and this movie makes a lot of big choices and 946 00:56:25.239 --> 00:56:28.000 big decisions. Not all of them work. Frankly, most of 947 00:56:28.039 --> 00:56:30.800 them don't work. The last movie, a lot of the 948 00:56:30.800 --> 00:56:33.679 big choices did work, and even at the end of 949 00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:35.159 the movie where we at the end of the last 950 00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:37.719 movie where we have the kind of back and forth 951 00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:40.239 on the boats and we're gonna blow up who's gonna 952 00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:42.079 blow up the boat as one boat gonna blow the 953 00:56:42.079 --> 00:56:44.239 other one, the criminals or the people like oh, and 954 00:56:44.280 --> 00:56:46.599 the society is good on both sides. Like even that, 955 00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:49.679 looking back on it is so heavy handed and preachy, 956 00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:53.440 but it's better than anything this movie ever does in 957 00:56:53.559 --> 00:56:57.079 terms of approaching having something interesting or unique to say 958 00:56:57.079 --> 00:57:00.400 about the situation that Bane has put Gotham. I just 959 00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:04.119 think Chris Nolan, like so many other tours, he's good 960 00:57:04.199 --> 00:57:06.679 in small doses and he's better when he's doing his 961 00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:09.559 own things. Because trying to do something like this with 962 00:57:09.679 --> 00:57:14.519 a character that already has a really strongly established set 963 00:57:14.559 --> 00:57:18.840 of ideas and a narrative kind of constructed around him, 964 00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:22.360 like it's you don't need to do so much to 965 00:57:22.519 --> 00:57:25.480 change the character to make him your thing. Write a 966 00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:28.320 story that works that is more your thing. It's just 967 00:57:29.119 --> 00:57:31.320 a lot of things that don't work for me, and 968 00:57:31.360 --> 00:57:33.639 the self seriousness is one of them. But also just 969 00:57:33.679 --> 00:57:36.199 the not understanding of the character is another. 970 00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:39.800 Well, I think that was the marketing campaign, right, Why 971 00:57:39.880 --> 00:57:43.360 so self serious? Wasn't that It for this one. I 972 00:57:43.400 --> 00:57:46.039 agree with you what you're talking about with all of 973 00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:49.440 the James Bond stuff, by the way, and especially yeah, 974 00:57:49.480 --> 00:57:51.519 this whole like we have to tie stuff back together. 975 00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:55.480 You mentioned you know somehow Palpatine has returned. This for me, 976 00:57:55.880 --> 00:57:58.920 is bringing back the League of Shadows, is building another 977 00:57:59.039 --> 00:58:01.920 Death Star. You could have done without that. And they 978 00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:04.639 knew that. They didn't really have a good idea coming 979 00:58:04.679 --> 00:58:07.000 into this. They're just like, well, we don't even know 980 00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:09.800 what we're going to do. There was talk about while 981 00:58:09.880 --> 00:58:13.599 The Dark Knight was being made or shortly thereafter, they're like, oh, yeah, 982 00:58:13.639 --> 00:58:15.559 we're going to do another one of these, and we're 983 00:58:15.559 --> 00:58:17.400 going to have the Joker back and it's going to 984 00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:21.039 be the Joker's trial and all this. And similarly to 985 00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:24.480 foil Ado, that was going to have the whole Joker 986 00:58:24.519 --> 00:58:27.360 throwing acid and Harvey Dent's face, but then they read 987 00:58:27.400 --> 00:58:29.039 con that and they said, no, we're going to put 988 00:58:29.079 --> 00:58:32.000 that the whole Harvey Dent thing in the second movie. 989 00:58:32.199 --> 00:58:35.480 So yeah, they didn't know. I mean, this suffers from 990 00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:39.480 the same problem that those Star Wars sequels suffer from, 991 00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:41.960 which is they didn't have a plant. They were like, oh, 992 00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:43.800 we're making these one at a time. We don't have 993 00:58:43.840 --> 00:58:47.119 an overall arc to this whole thing. So what this 994 00:58:47.199 --> 00:58:51.519 becomes is attacked on third act that really didn't necessarily 995 00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:54.039 need to be there, and yes, to have two hours 996 00:58:54.039 --> 00:58:57.559 and forty five minutes to stretch the sucker out for 997 00:58:57.679 --> 00:59:00.679 all of this. It's like, just because it's doesn't mean 998 00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:03.760 it's grandiose. It really doesn't have to be that way. 999 00:59:03.800 --> 00:59:07.159 Like we Yes, we have the beginning with Alfred talking 1000 00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:10.239 about you know, oh, I have this fantasy of me 1001 00:59:10.480 --> 00:59:13.239 going to you know, Italy or whatever, and you're there, 1002 00:59:13.719 --> 00:59:16.599 and then they relive it in the last part of 1003 00:59:16.639 --> 00:59:19.559 the film as they're closing up all of the stories, 1004 00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:22.320 and it's like, yeah, that's clever and everything, but I 1005 00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:25.719 almost forget about it because it was two hours and 1006 00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:29.599 forty minutes ago that you talked about that, so it 1007 00:59:29.719 --> 00:59:31.599 really goes on for a long time. And yeah, you 1008 00:59:31.599 --> 00:59:36.000 were talking about too many villains, Spencer, and I completely agree, 1009 00:59:36.039 --> 00:59:40.639 because not only is there Tali al Ghoul and then Baine, 1010 00:59:40.840 --> 00:59:45.079 but then you have the characters like the and you 1011 00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:48.519 mentioned Chris Foley, the Matthew Modine character, but I'm thinking 1012 00:59:48.519 --> 00:59:51.960 of like Burne Gorman and Ben Mendelssohn. It's like these 1013 00:59:51.960 --> 00:59:55.079 guys are just kind of along for the ride and 1014 00:59:55.159 --> 00:59:58.159 Killian Murphy. Yeah, because you also have like the the 1015 00:59:58.199 --> 01:00:01.400 whole group that goes on with uh with Baine, and 1016 01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:04.599 then you introduce somebody like a uh Brett Cullen as 1017 01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:07.159 the congressman who's in there for like two scenes, and 1018 01:00:07.199 --> 01:00:08.400 I thought for sure he was going to be a 1019 01:00:08.480 --> 01:00:12.480 much bigger player in this. And that whole scene of 1020 01:00:12.559 --> 01:00:17.199 her getting the fingerprints back to burn Gorman, it's completely unnecessary, 1021 01:00:17.239 --> 01:00:19.719 Like you can just eliminate that whole thing. This movie 1022 01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:23.960 can be really like, I actually looked for a fan 1023 01:00:24.159 --> 01:00:26.679 edit of this just to see what would a shorter 1024 01:00:26.840 --> 01:00:30.960 version of this movie look. There is there is one 1025 01:00:31.039 --> 01:00:34.599 out there, and I did not have a chance to 1026 01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:37.000 download it. Couldn't find a file of it. I hate 1027 01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:40.440 fan edit dot org these days because there's no fan 1028 01:00:40.559 --> 01:00:43.719 edit dot info anymore, and fan edit dot info was 1029 01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:46.039 the only place that you could find the places to 1030 01:00:46.119 --> 01:00:49.320 download the files. And fan edit dot org they're so 1031 01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:51.639 high and mighty that they're just like, well, there are 1032 01:00:51.679 --> 01:00:53.880 all these things called fan edits, and here are all 1033 01:00:53.880 --> 01:00:56.159 these people that are doing them, but we will not 1034 01:00:56.239 --> 01:00:58.679 allow you to ask where can I download a copy? 1035 01:00:58.719 --> 01:01:00.280 And it's just like, well, then you. 1036 01:01:01.320 --> 01:01:03.280 Because they don't want to get in trouble, which is 1037 01:01:03.320 --> 01:01:05.800 you know, that's fine. At the same time, though I 1038 01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:07.639 was gonna I was gonna make a joke about it, 1039 01:01:07.639 --> 01:01:09.400 if you wanted to just make a fan edit of 1040 01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:12.079 the amount of time that Batman is in this movie, 1041 01:01:12.079 --> 01:01:14.679 I think it's like twelve minutes, which if you want 1042 01:01:14.679 --> 01:01:17.599 to just watch Batman in a Batman movie, then two 1043 01:01:17.639 --> 01:01:20.360 hours and forty five minutes is a lot more than 1044 01:01:20.519 --> 01:01:23.119 the twelve that he's in it. This is barely a 1045 01:01:23.159 --> 01:01:27.599 Batman movie. This movie is it is barely a Batman movie. 1046 01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:31.719 And I think that if Chris Nolan was going to 1047 01:01:31.880 --> 01:01:36.119 make this movie this way, why not just make it 1048 01:01:36.159 --> 01:01:40.800 with something else, like some other kind of characters, some 1049 01:01:41.079 --> 01:01:44.760 other kind of ip. If there needed to be one, 1050 01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:48.960 just go make Tenant. I don't know, this story doesn't 1051 01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:54.000 need Batman. And you guys mentioned the Nolan brothers not 1052 01:01:54.039 --> 01:01:57.480 being able to write female characters. Joe Nolan and his 1053 01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:01.760 wife can write a good female character with Delores in Westworld, 1054 01:02:02.239 --> 01:02:05.800 but I don't think the two of them together can no, 1055 01:02:06.039 --> 01:02:09.719 and I think that they can't really write Batman either. 1056 01:02:10.639 --> 01:02:14.519 We've mentioned it's the Nolan brothers who wrote this movie, 1057 01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:19.159 but we have to remind ourselves that the story by 1058 01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:20.360 is still David S. 1059 01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:20.800 Goyer. 1060 01:02:21.159 --> 01:02:25.159 He's still involved, which is surprising because you would think that, oh, 1061 01:02:25.239 --> 01:02:28.800 maybe this movie didn't have Goyer involved, and that's why 1062 01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:30.840 the story is kind of all over the place. No, 1063 01:02:31.280 --> 01:02:34.960 Goyer is in fact involved in this movie. And I 1064 01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:37.239 don't know how much of what Goyer brought to The 1065 01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:41.039 Dark Knight or Batman Begins allowed those movies to be 1066 01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:46.360 better than this movie. With Batman Begins, Goyer has a 1067 01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:50.280 screenplay by credit as opposed to just story by. 1068 01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:53.920 With the last two with Jonathan Nolan or Jonah Nolan. 1069 01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:56.119 I was so confused when I was reading in you. 1070 01:02:56.199 --> 01:02:58.800 No, I think his name is Jonah and Joe. I 1071 01:02:58.800 --> 01:02:59.920 think that's how you say his. 1072 01:03:01.440 --> 01:03:03.519 Question Jonathan and his credits right, I. 1073 01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:06.280 Think so or something to that effect, because on all 1074 01:03:06.320 --> 01:03:08.760 the West World stuff they always talk about it and 1075 01:03:08.800 --> 01:03:12.039 they say it really Jonah Nolan, I think or something 1076 01:03:12.079 --> 01:03:12.800 that Jonathan. 1077 01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:17.920 I was ringing an interview with Christopher Nolan or Chris 1078 01:03:17.960 --> 01:03:21.599 to his friends, and he kept talking about Jonah and 1079 01:03:21.639 --> 01:03:24.079 so This was a printed interview, and so they were 1080 01:03:24.119 --> 01:03:27.119 spelling it like the person that was inside of the 1081 01:03:27.159 --> 01:03:30.239 belly of a whale. But then when you see his credits, 1082 01:03:30.360 --> 01:03:34.239 it's always you know Jonathan. But anyway, whoever, this person 1083 01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:38.800 is Chris Nolan's brother. He was the person behind the 1084 01:03:38.920 --> 01:03:42.159 show Person of Interest, which was a very interesting show. 1085 01:03:42.239 --> 01:03:45.719 I really liked that one a lot, and that basically 1086 01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:50.079 really feeds into the end of The Dark Knight. This 1087 01:03:50.199 --> 01:03:55.360 whole idea of a machine that can see everything, hear everything, 1088 01:03:55.880 --> 01:03:59.119 pinpoint where people are. You know, we're talking about how 1089 01:03:59.119 --> 01:04:01.800 this movie just pulls from the zeitgeist. It is so 1090 01:04:02.239 --> 01:04:04.960 Patriot Act. I mean that one coming out in two 1091 01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:07.760 thousand and eight, then the Patriot Act having been passed 1092 01:04:08.119 --> 01:04:10.800 a few years before that. I mean, I like that 1093 01:04:10.880 --> 01:04:15.199 Lucius Fox is like, whoa, you are crossing a line, 1094 01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:17.920 like he I'm surprised that Lucius is back for this 1095 01:04:18.079 --> 01:04:21.840 movie after what Batman pulled in the last movie, just 1096 01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:25.079 because he was dead set against that of like, you 1097 01:04:25.119 --> 01:04:28.239 are crossing the line here. You've made my invention into 1098 01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:31.920 this weapon that you can now see and hear and 1099 01:04:32.079 --> 01:04:35.719 spy on everybody in Gotham and Batman's just like, oh, 1100 01:04:35.840 --> 01:04:37.280 you know, ends justify the means. 1101 01:04:37.360 --> 01:04:37.559 You know. 1102 01:04:37.599 --> 01:04:40.159 And by the way, watching all three of these movies 1103 01:04:40.199 --> 01:04:42.800 in a row, I forgot he doesn't use the voice. 1104 01:04:42.800 --> 01:04:45.159 In the first movie, he talks like a normal human being, 1105 01:04:45.199 --> 01:04:47.679 but by the time the second one comes, he starts 1106 01:04:47.679 --> 01:04:48.800 to sound like Robert F. 1107 01:04:48.880 --> 01:04:49.679 Kennedy Junior. 1108 01:04:49.760 --> 01:04:49.960 You know. 1109 01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:53.800 It's just like, what the fuck man? So he's just like, basically, 1110 01:04:53.840 --> 01:04:56.239 the ends justify the means. I need to find the Joker. 1111 01:04:56.320 --> 01:04:59.800 I've turned your machine into a weapon. Fuck you very much, Lucius. 1112 01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:02.039 You can stop it at the end, you just type 1113 01:05:02.079 --> 01:05:02.639 in your name. 1114 01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:05.960 One of the things that animates Batman Begins and The 1115 01:05:06.039 --> 01:05:10.119 Dark Knight that is interesting about them within this very 1116 01:05:10.159 --> 01:05:13.920 this highly conservative kind of politics that I don't really 1117 01:05:14.079 --> 01:05:18.840 agree with, is that there's there are actual arguments about 1118 01:05:18.880 --> 01:05:23.320 the nature of justice and what's right that are made 1119 01:05:23.320 --> 01:05:25.400 through dialogue but also played out. 1120 01:05:25.639 --> 01:05:27.480 Particularly in Batman Begins. 1121 01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:30.320 That's one where we go through a number of different ideas. 1122 01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:31.760 And one of the things that made me like that 1123 01:05:31.840 --> 01:05:34.320 movie the first time that I saw it was that 1124 01:05:34.320 --> 01:05:36.719 there was a good twenty odd minutes where I was 1125 01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:39.280 getting ready to go because I was like, this movie's 1126 01:05:39.320 --> 01:05:43.679 full on fascist, and I know that's the thing. It's 1127 01:05:43.719 --> 01:05:45.960 a superhero movie, it's a Batman movie. It can definitely 1128 01:05:46.039 --> 01:05:49.320 go full on fascist. But then it turned to this 1129 01:05:49.480 --> 01:05:54.280 core in terms of its approach to what is good, 1130 01:05:54.360 --> 01:05:57.079 what is right, how's the society supposed to work. There's 1131 01:05:57.079 --> 01:05:59.480 a real push and pull there. This is a movie 1132 01:05:59.519 --> 01:06:03.920 where the push poll is Alfred telling Bruce Wayne that 1133 01:06:04.280 --> 01:06:06.719 he should just get out and touch grass and no, 1134 01:06:06.840 --> 01:06:11.760 don't be Batman, and then we faint in the direction of, oh, 1135 01:06:11.800 --> 01:06:15.199 you're taking over the stock market, but ultimately Bain is 1136 01:06:15.239 --> 01:06:18.159 taking over the stock market to benefit this other guy 1137 01:06:18.199 --> 01:06:24.119 on the board of Wayne Enterprises, so that there's a 1138 01:06:24.119 --> 01:06:27.239 lot of maneuvering, but none of it is actually like 1139 01:06:27.360 --> 01:06:30.199 working through problems of what is the right thing to do, 1140 01:06:31.079 --> 01:06:33.519 even though I'm not I'm actually really not crazy about 1141 01:06:33.559 --> 01:06:36.920 the very ending of The Dark Knight, the decision for 1142 01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:41.719 them to tell a quote unquote noble lie as the 1143 01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:45.199 end of the movie Batman actually killed Harvey Dent, so 1144 01:06:45.199 --> 01:06:46.800 that then Harvey Dent can be held up as a 1145 01:06:46.840 --> 01:06:51.119 hero and therefore crime whatever. This doesn't all really track 1146 01:06:51.360 --> 01:06:54.760 totally for me, but they work through a thing. They're 1147 01:06:54.800 --> 01:06:59.239 like making decisions about what's supposed to be right, and honestly, 1148 01:06:59.320 --> 01:07:00.920 the very end, and one of the reasons why the 1149 01:07:00.960 --> 01:07:03.159 movie ends up working for me is at the end 1150 01:07:04.199 --> 01:07:08.400 is Batman sort of banished from society, riding off into 1151 01:07:08.440 --> 01:07:14.639 who knows what, and the choice doesn't play as particularly happy. 1152 01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:17.159 They make an argument that this is a necessary choice 1153 01:07:17.159 --> 01:07:20.559 that I don't necessarily agree with, but I also see 1154 01:07:20.599 --> 01:07:24.079 somebody who is making a sacrifice at the end, and 1155 01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:27.199 things are not necessarily better for him, and I don't 1156 01:07:27.239 --> 01:07:29.199 necessarily know at the end that things are going to 1157 01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:33.079 be so much better for Gotham either. That ambiguity, which yeah, 1158 01:07:33.119 --> 01:07:36.280 they're setting up for a sequel, but that ambiguity makes 1159 01:07:36.719 --> 01:07:40.840 a lot of what comes before in the arguments over 1160 01:07:40.880 --> 01:07:43.599 what's right and Lucia's Fox saying no, you've gone too 1161 01:07:43.639 --> 01:07:47.000 far with the surveillance state kind of stuff. In the 1162 01:07:47.079 --> 01:07:52.679 context of a celebration of weaponized policing, militarized not just weaponized, 1163 01:07:52.880 --> 01:07:58.679 but like militarized policing, militarized vigilanteism. That's interesting stuff for 1164 01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:01.039 us to have an argument over as a result of 1165 01:08:01.079 --> 01:08:03.280 a movie. That's interesting, good stuff for me to think 1166 01:08:03.280 --> 01:08:05.440 about even in the act of. 1167 01:08:05.400 --> 01:08:07.199 Disagreeing with it. 1168 01:08:07.239 --> 01:08:09.840 But yeah, we got we got a thing here where 1169 01:08:09.880 --> 01:08:13.840 it's it's more incoherent and it's not working out. But 1170 01:08:13.880 --> 01:08:15.800 I guess so here's a question that I want to 1171 01:08:16.279 --> 01:08:20.840 steer towards. These movies are the high water mark of 1172 01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:26.600 realistic superhero that no one comes in and he's going 1173 01:08:26.680 --> 01:08:30.199 to add a lot more realism, and we can question 1174 01:08:30.359 --> 01:08:33.760 where is the realism applied. But the idea of a 1175 01:08:33.800 --> 01:08:39.159 more realistic version of Batman Dark Knight returns I don't 1176 01:08:39.199 --> 01:08:43.039 consider realistic, but maybe Batman you're one Frank Miller's Batman, 1177 01:08:43.119 --> 01:08:46.960 you're one that's in the comic books, adding a level 1178 01:08:47.520 --> 01:08:52.239 of a kind of street level reality to the idea 1179 01:08:52.800 --> 01:08:55.079 of this comic book character and some of the more 1180 01:08:55.079 --> 01:09:00.079 fantastical elements that we've that we've experienced so far. And 1181 01:09:00.520 --> 01:09:03.880 for instance, when we get the Scarecrow as a character 1182 01:09:04.039 --> 01:09:06.119 in he's in all three of the movies, but we 1183 01:09:06.119 --> 01:09:07.319 don't see him as the Scarecrow. 1184 01:09:07.399 --> 01:09:07.640 Here. 1185 01:09:08.920 --> 01:09:14.199 The Scarecrow has a scientifically worked out how to of 1186 01:09:14.399 --> 01:09:17.880 issuing a drug along with having this mask that is 1187 01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:20.399 going to become a particular kind of a thing that 1188 01:09:20.880 --> 01:09:23.079 takes it a little bit out of the world of 1189 01:09:23.119 --> 01:09:26.359 being the fantastical version of there is the Scarecrow from 1190 01:09:26.399 --> 01:09:29.479 like earlier comics, and is making this sort of more 1191 01:09:29.640 --> 01:09:33.520 real world plausible. Additionally, with Batman, yeah, he's always been 1192 01:09:33.560 --> 01:09:36.479 a billionaire and so he can buy the toys, but 1193 01:09:36.520 --> 01:09:40.119 in this case he's buying the toys from his company's 1194 01:09:40.800 --> 01:09:46.319 weapons operation, and so that makes things much more quote 1195 01:09:46.399 --> 01:09:50.560 unquote realistic a world for Batman to exist in, and 1196 01:09:51.039 --> 01:09:54.640 the villains in general, even the Joker is the most fantastical, 1197 01:09:55.039 --> 01:09:59.039 but the Joker seems to have more elements that suggest 1198 01:09:59.359 --> 01:10:02.800 a reality behind him that is more like our everyday 1199 01:10:02.840 --> 01:10:05.600 reality in order to make this happen. Is this a 1200 01:10:05.640 --> 01:10:09.079 good idea for comic book movies? How far have we 1201 01:10:09.119 --> 01:10:11.920 gone with this particular notion? Is it a good idea 1202 01:10:11.960 --> 01:10:14.800 for James Bond? Because I think, yeah, parallel thing has 1203 01:10:14.800 --> 01:10:18.239 happened with James Bond. With these kinds of fantastical characters, 1204 01:10:18.600 --> 01:10:20.520 what do we really get from. 1205 01:10:20.359 --> 01:10:23.119 Bringing in the Nolan style realism? 1206 01:10:23.880 --> 01:10:26.000 I think for me, as someone who grew up with 1207 01:10:26.520 --> 01:10:30.199 essentially none of the trappings of anybody a similar lya 1208 01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:33.039 to y'all, none of us grew up with a serious 1209 01:10:33.119 --> 01:10:35.840 version of these characters in film. This was only in 1210 01:10:35.880 --> 01:10:39.520 the last fifteen years that this has become so prevalent 1211 01:10:39.600 --> 01:10:43.520 and a thing. Looking back on it now, looking at 1212 01:10:43.520 --> 01:10:47.640 it as maybe it's over finally, maybe this trend has 1213 01:10:47.680 --> 01:10:51.479 finally willed itself out of the system and it's finally gone. 1214 01:10:52.600 --> 01:10:55.600 I feel like, for me, what have we learned? That 1215 01:10:55.880 --> 01:10:58.960 there might be an audience for this, and there might 1216 01:10:59.000 --> 01:11:03.359 be a place for it. But I think people tend 1217 01:11:03.439 --> 01:11:06.520 to forget that you can tell these kinds of stories 1218 01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:08.039 in a comic book and it doesn't have to be 1219 01:11:08.159 --> 01:11:10.359 on the big screen, and in it not needing to 1220 01:11:10.399 --> 01:11:13.159 be on the big screen, you can enjoy all kinds 1221 01:11:13.159 --> 01:11:16.199 of different versions of these characters. The whole argument of 1222 01:11:16.279 --> 01:11:20.680 Zack Snyder having Superman kill people or kill Zod at 1223 01:11:20.680 --> 01:11:22.600 the end of Man of Steel, I think comes into 1224 01:11:22.640 --> 01:11:25.079 mind when Superman wouldn't do that in the comics. It's 1225 01:11:25.119 --> 01:11:27.399 like there are all kinds of versions of Superman in 1226 01:11:27.439 --> 01:11:29.800 the comic books, including a version of Superman that landed 1227 01:11:30.359 --> 01:11:34.039 in the USSR, and so he became the Soviet version 1228 01:11:34.079 --> 01:11:37.079 of Superman as opposed to the American version of Superman. 1229 01:11:37.680 --> 01:11:41.159 This version of Batman is not for me. This version 1230 01:11:41.239 --> 01:11:44.840 of Batman's trilogy is not for me. I think if 1231 01:11:44.880 --> 01:11:47.239 anything is gleaned from all of this, it's that there 1232 01:11:47.279 --> 01:11:49.760 are people that this is for. I just don't think 1233 01:11:49.840 --> 01:11:54.920 it's long term sustainable in terms of being entertaining, because 1234 01:11:54.920 --> 01:11:58.800 I think after a while, if you reject the fantastical 1235 01:11:58.840 --> 01:12:01.399 for too long with these kinds of things, you work 1236 01:12:01.439 --> 01:12:03.600 yourself into a corner where you can only tell certain 1237 01:12:03.680 --> 01:12:07.199 kinds of stories. And these kinds of characters don't really 1238 01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:09.840 work with certain kinds of stories, and by certain kinds 1239 01:12:09.840 --> 01:12:12.720 of stories, a lot of different kinds of stories, these 1240 01:12:12.800 --> 01:12:16.640 kinds of characters don't work with. Really, there are some 1241 01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:21.079 things that Batman could solve so easily, so quickly, with 1242 01:12:21.279 --> 01:12:24.600 so little interference an issue. That's why he can't deal 1243 01:12:24.640 --> 01:12:26.840 with it. That's why you have to make some of 1244 01:12:26.840 --> 01:12:30.680 these threats worldwide or global threats, because it's like Batman, 1245 01:12:30.800 --> 01:12:33.039 like we've already alluded to it, even in this version 1246 01:12:33.079 --> 01:12:37.359 of the story, is a multi billionaire playboy, and in 1247 01:12:37.359 --> 01:12:41.039 this one he's essentially got a small military's worth of 1248 01:12:41.199 --> 01:12:44.720 gear that he can have created or create for himself. 1249 01:12:45.159 --> 01:12:48.119 What fucking threat would be a real threat to this 1250 01:12:48.199 --> 01:12:52.079 guy if he were not. Essentially in this film, Coded 1251 01:12:52.159 --> 01:12:57.640 is moron. He's the world's greatest detective, and Talia al 1252 01:12:57.760 --> 01:13:02.199 Goole works for his come He's the world's greatest detection. 1253 01:13:02.359 --> 01:13:03.000 It's a CEO. 1254 01:13:03.159 --> 01:13:05.520 I know there are parts of this version of Batman 1255 01:13:05.560 --> 01:13:07.000 that are interesting, and then there are parts of the 1256 01:13:07.079 --> 01:13:11.039 version of Batman that are really poorly thought out. And 1257 01:13:11.399 --> 01:13:13.760 the character of Batman, I think, to your point, Mike 1258 01:13:13.960 --> 01:13:16.680 is not interesting. I think the character of Batman here 1259 01:13:17.119 --> 01:13:20.359 is not interesting, and he's a very static character. Bruce Wayne, 1260 01:13:20.359 --> 01:13:23.119 on the other hand, I think is actually rather well 1261 01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:25.840 represented in the first two movies, not so much in 1262 01:13:25.880 --> 01:13:29.079 the third one. But that's not necessarily the case in 1263 01:13:29.640 --> 01:13:32.600 some of the other Batman movies. I know people to 1264 01:13:33.079 --> 01:13:37.760 have their issues with Keaton or Kilmer, but I think 1265 01:13:37.840 --> 01:13:39.720 Christian Bale's pretty good as Bruce Wayne. 1266 01:13:39.760 --> 01:13:43.000 I think uh Clooney Halari Clooney. 1267 01:13:43.239 --> 01:13:46.359 Cloney truly might be the worst. He's probably the worst 1268 01:13:46.439 --> 01:13:47.119 Batman ever. 1269 01:13:47.560 --> 01:13:49.159 They brought him back though at the end of that 1270 01:13:49.239 --> 01:13:51.600 flash movie. Remember they were like, this is a thing 1271 01:13:51.640 --> 01:13:55.039 that the world wanted. We want more of this. If 1272 01:13:55.079 --> 01:13:57.279 anything has learned for me, it's just that we it's 1273 01:13:57.319 --> 01:13:59.039 not that we don't need this. I just don't think 1274 01:13:59.079 --> 01:14:02.199 after a while, you have much room to cover other 1275 01:14:02.279 --> 01:14:04.840 than the ground you've already covered. There's not a lot 1276 01:14:04.840 --> 01:14:07.640 of interesting places and spaces to go. I think that's 1277 01:14:07.920 --> 01:14:08.960 the big takeaway for me. 1278 01:14:09.960 --> 01:14:11.479 All right, let's go ahead and take a break and 1279 01:14:11.520 --> 01:14:14.880 we'll be back right after these brief messages. Looking for 1280 01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:17.760 something superior to streaming, a place with more than five 1281 01:14:17.800 --> 01:14:21.039 times the selection available on all the streaming services combined, 1282 01:14:21.399 --> 01:14:24.600 check out Scarecrow Videos Rent by mail service. Select from 1283 01:14:24.600 --> 01:14:28.319 an unparalleled collection of over one hundred and fifty thousand films, 1284 01:14:28.359 --> 01:14:31.359 then get blu rays, four k's and DVDs delivered directly 1285 01:14:31.399 --> 01:14:33.880 to your door. Get in on it now at scarecrow 1286 01:14:33.920 --> 01:14:37.359 dot com and rediscover the wonders of physical media. All right, 1287 01:14:37.399 --> 01:14:39.600 we're back, and we're talking about the Dark Knight Rises. 1288 01:14:39.760 --> 01:14:43.680 And at the crux of the Dark Knight Rises is 1289 01:14:43.800 --> 01:14:49.119 this machine. This machine that they turn into either a 1290 01:14:49.159 --> 01:14:53.640 neutron or a nuclear bomb. It's a fusion machine. And 1291 01:14:53.880 --> 01:14:57.079 I still don't know after watching this movie quite a 1292 01:14:57.119 --> 01:15:01.319 few times now, I still don't know why they don't 1293 01:15:01.359 --> 01:15:04.960 turn it on is it that it's dangerous because they say, 1294 01:15:05.039 --> 01:15:07.319 like you should turn on the machine, like you've poured 1295 01:15:07.880 --> 01:15:11.199 all your money, Like he's almost in danger of not 1296 01:15:11.359 --> 01:15:15.439 being a billionaire. He might be a quadrillionaire after this, 1297 01:15:15.560 --> 01:15:18.239 but like not being a billionaire because he poured all 1298 01:15:18.279 --> 01:15:20.600 of his money into this R and D project of 1299 01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:25.000 a fusion reactor, which I'm guessing is going to power 1300 01:15:25.039 --> 01:15:29.359 the entire city. Again, very much a James Bond type 1301 01:15:29.399 --> 01:15:32.359 of thing, like oh, you know Scaramunga with his son 1302 01:15:32.479 --> 01:15:36.159 Ray that can you know? Or what was the Tomorrow 1303 01:15:36.279 --> 01:15:39.560 Never Dies whichever one night had the diamond faced guy 1304 01:15:39.600 --> 01:15:41.079 where it's like, oh, yeah, I'm going to use this 1305 01:15:41.199 --> 01:15:42.880 at the end of the day, die another day. 1306 01:15:42.880 --> 01:15:43.159 Thank you. 1307 01:15:43.159 --> 01:15:45.399 I'm going to use this beam and I'm going to 1308 01:15:45.680 --> 01:15:50.119 be able to put sunlight in places where it's normally dark, 1309 01:15:50.159 --> 01:15:52.720 and then we're going to be able to raise crops there. 1310 01:15:52.760 --> 01:15:55.520 Blah blah blah blah blah. So here's Bruce, like, Oh, 1311 01:15:55.640 --> 01:15:58.479 I'm going to power the entire city. You know, I'm 1312 01:15:58.520 --> 01:16:00.640 going to do a Martin and come up with like 1313 01:16:00.640 --> 01:16:03.359 a little fusion reactor that powers this entire place. 1314 01:16:03.479 --> 01:16:07.800 You know, behold the power plant. 1315 01:16:07.439 --> 01:16:14.680 Of the future today to cold and sterile whish the hot, 1316 01:16:15.319 --> 01:16:15.720 but it. 1317 01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:17.239 Really generates power. 1318 01:16:17.479 --> 01:16:19.319 It's letting this room right now. 1319 01:16:20.600 --> 01:16:23.439 Really the danger of this movie for Bruce Wayne is 1320 01:16:23.479 --> 01:16:26.760 losing his superpower, which is losing his money. This whole 1321 01:16:26.880 --> 01:16:32.199 takeover over of Wall Street is targeted at him. Like 1322 01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:35.840 I guess he's one, maybe of a few people, but 1323 01:16:35.880 --> 01:16:38.319 it feels like it's very much just targeted at Bruce 1324 01:16:38.399 --> 01:16:42.439 Wayne solely, maybe because of Tali al Gould knowing who 1325 01:16:42.520 --> 01:16:42.840 he is. 1326 01:16:43.359 --> 01:16:46.960 That's my assumption. It's just why not just make that 1327 01:16:47.199 --> 01:16:50.239 the case from the beginning of the movie. Not this 1328 01:16:50.399 --> 01:16:54.000 like Benedict Cumberbatch's con nonsense. Again they did. This was 1329 01:16:54.039 --> 01:16:57.239 another thing they were doing. The Christoph Waltz is not Blowfeld. 1330 01:16:57.279 --> 01:16:59.960 We promised, like everybody was, like, it's Talia al Gould. 1331 01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:03.600 Tally al Gould. So you cast Marion Cottiard in your film, 1332 01:17:03.960 --> 01:17:06.880 She's not gonna just play nobody. That's literally not how 1333 01:17:06.880 --> 01:17:08.680 it works if it's announced ahead of time. This is 1334 01:17:08.720 --> 01:17:12.359 not Brad Pitt in Deadpool two where he shows up 1335 01:17:12.359 --> 01:17:15.359 for fifteen seconds and nobody knew that ahead of time. 1336 01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:18.000 She was cast. We knew it. Her character's name was 1337 01:17:18.039 --> 01:17:22.119 announced it was a very obviously like fake character sounding name. 1338 01:17:22.399 --> 01:17:25.560 What was it, Star Trek? It was con was John 1339 01:17:25.720 --> 01:17:28.520 Smith or something to that effect. Yeah, it's oh who 1340 01:17:28.680 --> 01:17:30.960 could he? Whoever could he be? Like why would you? 1341 01:17:31.479 --> 01:17:34.239 I don't know. I hated that they've stopped doing that, thankfully. 1342 01:17:34.319 --> 01:17:36.279 Just work it into the script. It doesn't have to 1343 01:17:36.279 --> 01:17:38.399 be a surprise. You can do surprises other ways. 1344 01:17:39.079 --> 01:17:42.680 I feel like the SEC probably would have canceled the 1345 01:17:42.720 --> 01:17:47.239 whole transaction that takes place with Bruce Wayne's fake fingerprints anyway, 1346 01:17:47.479 --> 01:17:50.479 so it feels like there is no real threat here 1347 01:17:50.720 --> 01:17:53.000 any way. You know, it's like, oh, yeah, no, he's 1348 01:17:53.039 --> 01:17:55.399 going to lose the company. I'm like, no, he's not. 1349 01:17:55.680 --> 01:17:56.079 Like that. 1350 01:17:56.640 --> 01:18:00.359 That whole transaction was invalid, Like we have footage of this, 1351 01:18:00.520 --> 01:18:03.640 I would think, or maybe we don't, because like you're saying, 1352 01:18:03.680 --> 01:18:07.720 you know, going back to that speech that Bain gives. Yeah, 1353 01:18:07.840 --> 01:18:13.640 other than a few reporters, we basically see like police 1354 01:18:14.520 --> 01:18:18.920 line the streets or thugs from this prison that they 1355 01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:23.319 liberate aka the best deal. And I'm sorry, but the 1356 01:18:25.000 --> 01:18:30.399 whole idea of like Bain living underground and Batman has 1357 01:18:30.439 --> 01:18:33.039 the bat Cave and you know, yeah, you just adopted 1358 01:18:33.079 --> 01:18:36.119 the darkness. I was born in it. There's a huge 1359 01:18:36.319 --> 01:18:40.079 hole in that prison that just light lets sunlight in 1360 01:18:40.760 --> 01:18:44.359 probably at least twelve hours of the day. I'm just like, 1361 01:18:44.439 --> 01:18:46.760 this is not a dark prison. This is not the deepest, 1362 01:18:46.800 --> 01:18:50.479 darkest hole like Alfred is talking about. You can almost 1363 01:18:50.600 --> 01:18:52.800 escape from this prison as long as you can jump 1364 01:18:52.840 --> 01:18:55.399 twelve feet. And I don't know why all of the 1365 01:18:55.439 --> 01:18:58.279 people that are in this prison just don't work together 1366 01:18:58.359 --> 01:19:01.239 in order to build a better bridge and just go out. 1367 01:19:01.479 --> 01:19:03.680 It's like, because, like I said, there's no guards in 1368 01:19:03.720 --> 01:19:07.399 this prison. Okay, everybody seems to be eating well, everybody 1369 01:19:07.399 --> 01:19:10.600 seems relatively healthy. I don't know how they're getting food 1370 01:19:10.960 --> 01:19:14.039 in this prison. And I'm sorry again, like I don't 1371 01:19:14.039 --> 01:19:16.239 want to Cinema sends this thing either, but it's like, 1372 01:19:16.279 --> 01:19:18.920 if you present me with this whole idea, I want 1373 01:19:18.920 --> 01:19:20.800 to look at it, and I'm gonna be like, well, yeah, 1374 01:19:20.920 --> 01:19:23.640 I can see the sun right there, Like what is 1375 01:19:23.680 --> 01:19:24.479 this whole thing? 1376 01:19:24.560 --> 01:19:24.800 You know? 1377 01:19:25.159 --> 01:19:27.319 I would have rather like I like how the Joker 1378 01:19:27.479 --> 01:19:30.159 and Batman, especially the Joker even says it in the 1379 01:19:30.199 --> 01:19:33.640 previous movie, and even Jack Nicholson says it. You know, 1380 01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:37.199 you created me, I created you, Like are we going 1381 01:19:37.279 --> 01:19:38.399 to go back and forth like this? 1382 01:19:38.600 --> 01:19:38.760 You know? 1383 01:19:38.800 --> 01:19:42.399 And then Heath Ledger's like, I know you complete me, 1384 01:19:42.640 --> 01:19:44.920 like there is no me without you type of thing. 1385 01:19:45.479 --> 01:19:48.079 It feels like there should be that type of symbiotic 1386 01:19:48.119 --> 01:19:51.800 relationship between Batman and Bain, and there's not. You know, 1387 01:19:51.880 --> 01:19:54.680 there's just that one line about adopting the darkness while 1388 01:19:54.760 --> 01:19:58.920 Bain was born there and again also a lie because 1389 01:19:58.920 --> 01:20:01.439 it was Taliya Ghould I was born there, it wasn't Main, 1390 01:20:01.720 --> 01:20:04.399 so again kind of throwing us off with this thing. 1391 01:20:04.520 --> 01:20:08.560 So this movie just doesn't feel like it was very 1392 01:20:08.600 --> 01:20:11.479 well thought out at all. That you can just like 1393 01:20:11.600 --> 01:20:14.159 keep picking and picking and picking and it just never 1394 01:20:14.720 --> 01:20:18.079 comes to anything, and you're just like, I'm not following this, 1395 01:20:18.159 --> 01:20:20.000 and like, yeah, it's great that you're making all these 1396 01:20:20.000 --> 01:20:22.560 allusions to a tail of Two Cities, but I have 1397 01:20:22.640 --> 01:20:26.159 to tell you when Bruce Wayne is dead, no he's not. 1398 01:20:26.319 --> 01:20:30.119 When he's dead at the end and they're reading from 1399 01:20:30.119 --> 01:20:33.119 a tailor two Cities, I'm just like, I'm sorry, but 1400 01:20:33.359 --> 01:20:35.880 the only thing I'm thinking of right now is Spock 1401 01:20:36.000 --> 01:20:40.079 being dead. That death meant a lot to me, The 1402 01:20:40.159 --> 01:20:43.800 death of Bruce Wayne means nothing, especially because you have 1403 01:20:43.920 --> 01:20:48.920 two very pointed lines about the autopilot, even right before 1404 01:20:49.279 --> 01:20:51.760 the finale of the film. It's just like, Oh, don't 1405 01:20:51.760 --> 01:20:54.800 forget about that autopilot. I'm like, really, we're gonna go there, 1406 01:20:54.840 --> 01:21:00.479 You're gonna remind me of that. Oh geez hey, Charles, 1407 01:21:01.239 --> 01:21:02.960 what was the name of that sled that you had? 1408 01:21:03.880 --> 01:21:05.079 Was that something like a flower? 1409 01:21:07.039 --> 01:21:12.800 I see a beautiful city and a brilliant people rising 1410 01:21:12.840 --> 01:21:18.359 from this abyss. I see their lives for which I 1411 01:21:18.439 --> 01:21:27.960 lay down my life, peaceful, useful, prosperous, and happy. I 1412 01:21:28.000 --> 01:21:33.199 see that I hold a sanctuary in their hearts and 1413 01:21:33.479 --> 01:21:41.800 in the hearts of their descendants generation's heads. It is 1414 01:21:41.840 --> 01:21:47.039 a far far better thing that I do than I. 1415 01:21:47.119 --> 01:21:52.840 Have never done, far far better resting place than I 1416 01:21:52.920 --> 01:21:55.439 go to I have ever known. 1417 01:21:56.600 --> 01:21:57.479 Is that a pot. 1418 01:22:00.560 --> 01:22:05.520 Something? Spot was trying to tell me you, okay, Jo, 1419 01:22:07.319 --> 01:22:07.920 how do you feel? 1420 01:22:11.680 --> 01:22:11.880 Yeah? 1421 01:22:25.079 --> 01:22:25.640 So, Spock. 1422 01:22:26.119 --> 01:22:28.720 That's a classic thing where there was a fake out, 1423 01:22:28.760 --> 01:22:31.399 but it took another movie to work it out. 1424 01:22:31.600 --> 01:22:32.800 And one may. 1425 01:22:32.760 --> 01:22:35.199 Like or dislike the Star Trek to Search for SoC 1426 01:22:36.039 --> 01:22:37.079 I'm one of the fans of that one. 1427 01:22:37.119 --> 01:22:38.600 I know a lot of other Star Trek fans. 1428 01:22:38.399 --> 01:22:41.439 Don't like it, but it's a it's a near thing, 1429 01:22:41.479 --> 01:22:44.000 and there's a drama to get there to get Spock back, 1430 01:22:44.079 --> 01:22:48.960 And in Wrath of Khan, when Spock dies, for the 1431 01:22:49.079 --> 01:22:53.000 characters in that moment, that is absolutely a real death, 1432 01:22:53.359 --> 01:22:56.840 and to whatever degree the series is pulling a fake 1433 01:22:56.880 --> 01:22:59.600 out on us, we got to build back up from there. 1434 01:23:00.199 --> 01:23:02.920 This is a thing where it's a fake out, but 1435 01:23:02.920 --> 01:23:06.119 it's a fake out without the fun of Marian getting 1436 01:23:06.119 --> 01:23:08.439 in that truck in Raiders of the Lost Arc and 1437 01:23:08.479 --> 01:23:11.119 it blows up and we never find out how she 1438 01:23:11.199 --> 01:23:15.479 actually managed to live. And Lucas and Spielberg were pulling 1439 01:23:15.479 --> 01:23:17.319 a fast one there, and they knew they were doing 1440 01:23:17.399 --> 01:23:22.840 it within that kind of flifhanger genre that they're inhabiting. 1441 01:23:23.439 --> 01:23:26.600 But here it's at a point in the drama where 1442 01:23:27.479 --> 01:23:30.960 we're built up to expect a real at minimum a 1443 01:23:31.039 --> 01:23:37.239 real sacrifice from Batman slash Bruce Wayne, and in those moments, 1444 01:23:37.279 --> 01:23:39.560 even when we're building up to think about the sacrifice, 1445 01:23:39.600 --> 01:23:41.920 we've got to set up the fake out so the 1446 01:23:41.960 --> 01:23:43.680 audience doesn't feel too faked out. 1447 01:23:43.760 --> 01:23:45.159 But the reason why you're. 1448 01:23:45.000 --> 01:23:47.199 Having to set up a fake out is because basically 1449 01:23:47.720 --> 01:23:51.439 like the audience wouldn't accept it because it's phony and 1450 01:23:51.479 --> 01:23:55.880 it's bad for Batman not to die saving the city 1451 01:23:56.479 --> 01:23:58.319 at the end of this movie, and it takes away 1452 01:23:58.920 --> 01:24:01.000 as you talk about, there's a lot of stuff that's 1453 01:24:01.039 --> 01:24:04.399 really weightless, that doesn't seem like it adds up to much. 1454 01:24:04.439 --> 01:24:08.279 But and then we get this like strange, long winded 1455 01:24:08.319 --> 01:24:12.960 sequence with this nuclear device that's gonna blow up the 1456 01:24:13.000 --> 01:24:18.840 whole city. At least let him sacrifice to save the city. Honestly, 1457 01:24:18.880 --> 01:24:23.479 that would make Alfred's earlier speech more meaningful. What Alfred's 1458 01:24:23.479 --> 01:24:26.560 speech earlier on sets up for us is an ending 1459 01:24:26.600 --> 01:24:30.239 where yeah, like Batman and Catwoman got away together in Italy. 1460 01:24:30.840 --> 01:24:34.199 Just think about the emotional impact of Alfred going to 1461 01:24:34.279 --> 01:24:40.359 someplace and redoing his vision from early in the movie. 1462 01:24:40.439 --> 01:24:43.119 But there's no Batman there, there's no Christian Bale, there's 1463 01:24:43.159 --> 01:24:47.479 no Bruce Wayne. Alfred hoping against hope that he pulled 1464 01:24:47.479 --> 01:24:50.680 a fast one doesn't get that, And we end on 1465 01:24:50.720 --> 01:24:55.840 a moment of meaningful sadness and perhaps even like ambiguity. 1466 01:24:56.319 --> 01:24:58.760 Just the act of going there and like wishing for 1467 01:24:58.840 --> 01:25:02.359 it creates something. But we got to wrap it all 1468 01:25:02.479 --> 01:25:07.399 up tightly, and James Bond at this point has done 1469 01:25:07.640 --> 01:25:10.000 the sacrifice and has died. It's hilarious to me that 1470 01:25:10.039 --> 01:25:13.399 they're having arguments over how do we bring James Bond back? 1471 01:25:14.039 --> 01:25:14.960 Hire another actor? 1472 01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:15.199 Do it? 1473 01:25:15.279 --> 01:25:19.479 James Bond? What sense did it make when Sean Connery 1474 01:25:19.560 --> 01:25:21.039 left and Roger Moore took over. 1475 01:25:21.960 --> 01:25:22.279 None. 1476 01:25:22.920 --> 01:25:26.920 We won't fully own up to the implications of our storytelling, 1477 01:25:27.319 --> 01:25:30.079 and we end up with these things that are weightless. 1478 01:25:30.159 --> 01:25:32.960 And this especially presents as a problem. Again, I'm going 1479 01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:36.800 to pick on the realism in a more realistic kind 1480 01:25:36.800 --> 01:25:40.560 of setting and realistic set of expectations, the idea of 1481 01:25:40.600 --> 01:25:46.159 this a more realistic world. Then yeah, Batman should die. 1482 01:25:46.640 --> 01:25:49.000 If that's what you're building up to. That's the thing. 1483 01:25:49.319 --> 01:25:52.960 So to the positive, not the positive about this movie, 1484 01:25:53.000 --> 01:25:55.279 but to the positive in terms of cinema and. 1485 01:25:55.279 --> 01:25:58.199 Aesthetics and stuff. I think there are advantages. 1486 01:25:58.680 --> 01:26:02.520 The over reliance on trying to go realistic is weirdly 1487 01:26:03.479 --> 01:26:05.840 at best, a backhanded compliment to. 1488 01:26:07.079 --> 01:26:08.720 A comic book aesthetics. 1489 01:26:09.840 --> 01:26:13.479 It's a backhanded compliment in that it's, oh, this stuff 1490 01:26:13.760 --> 01:26:17.399 is actually important, and it's important enough to make it realistic, 1491 01:26:18.159 --> 01:26:20.800 and I'm like, no, this stuff is important, and it's 1492 01:26:20.800 --> 01:26:27.159 important enough to keep in its fantastical manifestations. It's important 1493 01:26:27.239 --> 01:26:32.079 enough to do Burton's Batman Returns, which, because Christmas is coming. 1494 01:26:31.920 --> 01:26:36.279 I'm gonna watch this weekend. Batman Returns is great stuff. 1495 01:26:36.359 --> 01:26:38.720 And you know what's funny is simply because it went 1496 01:26:39.079 --> 01:26:40.880 darker in its vision. 1497 01:26:40.680 --> 01:26:43.439 The previous Adam West Batman. 1498 01:26:44.039 --> 01:26:46.119 That was a certain kind of like sea change in 1499 01:26:46.159 --> 01:26:48.760 how we could look at comic books. And of course 1500 01:26:48.760 --> 01:26:53.680 it lagged several years behind Alan Moore's work and Frank 1501 01:26:53.720 --> 01:26:56.399 Miller's work, that like really brought a kind of darkness, 1502 01:26:56.960 --> 01:27:00.439 but the darkness of the Burton comported with a kind 1503 01:27:00.520 --> 01:27:06.439 of wild Gothic imagination that is a bit fit with 1504 01:27:06.560 --> 01:27:10.680 this kind of logic. Burton deciding that it's really funny 1505 01:27:10.720 --> 01:27:15.399 and perverse and perverted for people to dress up in 1506 01:27:15.520 --> 01:27:20.119 skin tight leather as animals and run around a city 1507 01:27:20.199 --> 01:27:23.159 and they might think that they're superheroes, are super villains, 1508 01:27:23.199 --> 01:27:27.600 but this is perverted weirdness with people running around in 1509 01:27:27.720 --> 01:27:32.319 skin in gimp suits throughout Gotham, and that's very much 1510 01:27:32.760 --> 01:27:36.239 what he's going for. There's beauty and there is horror, 1511 01:27:36.239 --> 01:27:39.319 and there is honor. In that kind of storytelling that 1512 01:27:39.399 --> 01:27:43.520 goes towards the fantastical and in a different zone. This 1513 01:27:43.640 --> 01:27:48.680 is also a comic book thing, but related to how 1514 01:27:48.840 --> 01:27:52.359 animation gets turned into live action. The most radical thing 1515 01:27:52.399 --> 01:27:55.239 about the Wachowski Speed Racer is that it's a movie 1516 01:27:55.279 --> 01:27:59.199 for children. Now, their minds overcomplicated. It did too much 1517 01:27:59.239 --> 01:28:03.840 plot kids and follow all that. But the aesthetic, like 1518 01:28:04.199 --> 01:28:07.239 the whole mode of address of the movie. The concerns 1519 01:28:07.279 --> 01:28:11.560 of it are it's basically like a gen X lecture 1520 01:28:11.680 --> 01:28:17.960 on selling out, delivered squarely to eight to eleven year olds. Again, 1521 01:28:18.399 --> 01:28:21.960 that's beautiful. I fucking love that movie. There is honor 1522 01:28:22.000 --> 01:28:24.920 in that, there is a good way to tell those stories. 1523 01:28:25.439 --> 01:28:29.279 And I just got to say the experiment and more 1524 01:28:29.359 --> 01:28:33.680 realistic superhero stuff, yeah, it pays off a couple of times, 1525 01:28:33.720 --> 01:28:35.880 But I just I don't think. 1526 01:28:36.479 --> 01:28:37.479 I don't think. 1527 01:28:37.279 --> 01:28:39.720 That it does what everybody thinks they wanted to do, 1528 01:28:39.800 --> 01:28:43.680 which is to bring more seriousness and attention. The seriousness 1529 01:28:43.680 --> 01:28:48.600 and attention is already there in comic books. They are worthwhile. No, 1530 01:28:48.720 --> 01:28:53.039 they don't replace reading the Brothers Karamotsov. Sorry, I'm still 1531 01:28:53.079 --> 01:28:56.520 better off because I've read both a lot of Batman 1532 01:28:56.560 --> 01:28:59.239 and a lot of X Men and the brothers Karamotsov. 1533 01:28:59.279 --> 01:29:01.399 It doesn't get you that kind of a thing. They're 1534 01:29:01.439 --> 01:29:04.520 all good, but yeah, trying to trick it up with 1535 01:29:04.880 --> 01:29:07.119 quote unquote realism. I just don't know that that was 1536 01:29:07.560 --> 01:29:11.000 particularly necessary. Maybe it can be done well again, but again, 1537 01:29:11.039 --> 01:29:14.439 I feel like it's a backhanded compliment to a mode 1538 01:29:14.479 --> 01:29:17.880 of art and a mode of imagination that doesn't need it. 1539 01:29:18.479 --> 01:29:21.239 When they don't want it to be serious, they're okay 1540 01:29:21.279 --> 01:29:23.079 with it, but for the most part they want it 1541 01:29:23.119 --> 01:29:25.439 to be serious. The ending of The Dark Knight Rises 1542 01:29:25.560 --> 01:29:29.920 is so fantastical and bizarre and doesn't hang with the 1543 01:29:29.960 --> 01:29:33.279 rest of the movie, because again, they want to be 1544 01:29:33.359 --> 01:29:35.359 serious up into the last ten minutes, and then they 1545 01:29:35.680 --> 01:29:38.039 just there's a nuke, and the nuke goes off and 1546 01:29:38.079 --> 01:29:41.600 it's okay, fine. 1547 01:29:40.479 --> 01:29:42.159 And nobody in Gotham gets cancer. 1548 01:29:43.159 --> 01:29:47.119 Maybe Nolan and Snyder and all these people who do 1549 01:29:47.199 --> 01:29:51.640 these serious films, they just I would never lower myself 1550 01:29:51.640 --> 01:29:54.960 to something so silly as Batman, But if you want 1551 01:29:54.960 --> 01:29:56.960 me to do it, I'll do it in my own way. 1552 01:29:57.319 --> 01:29:59.640 And it was like when Tarantina was talking about doing 1553 01:29:59.640 --> 01:30:02.680 a start movie. I'm good like you said, I read 1554 01:30:02.720 --> 01:30:04.680 a lot of comic books. Comic books have a lot 1555 01:30:04.720 --> 01:30:09.359 of serious, nuanced storytelling that gets ignored because of the 1556 01:30:09.399 --> 01:30:12.119 medium through which it's being presented, just like video games. 1557 01:30:12.199 --> 01:30:16.520 Video games have some really serious, in depth, complex storytelling 1558 01:30:16.600 --> 01:30:19.359 and it's not treated that way because of the medium 1559 01:30:19.359 --> 01:30:23.000 through which it's being told. It's just like the genre 1560 01:30:23.079 --> 01:30:26.840 problem of horror films never getting nominated for anything. With 1561 01:30:26.880 --> 01:30:29.760 the Oscars, Oh my god, weapons might get nominated for 1562 01:30:29.840 --> 01:30:36.399 Best Casting for the first time ever. Wow, that's really insane. Congratulations. 1563 01:30:36.960 --> 01:30:39.960 It's the same thing here. If you don't vibe with 1564 01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:42.840 what you're going to talk about, just don't make it. 1565 01:30:43.319 --> 01:30:46.399 Don't force this thing into a box that it's not 1566 01:30:46.960 --> 01:30:49.199 willing to be forced into, because even if you force 1567 01:30:49.239 --> 01:30:51.199 it into the box, when you take it out, it's 1568 01:30:51.199 --> 01:30:54.000 still gonna have all these sharp edges that you can't 1569 01:30:54.000 --> 01:30:56.960 really do anything with because again, you're not really interested 1570 01:30:57.000 --> 01:30:59.479 in doing anything with it. Christopher Nolan is interested in 1571 01:30:59.520 --> 01:31:02.640 telling a story he wants to tell and then putting 1572 01:31:02.680 --> 01:31:05.840 Batman in it. It should be a Batman story, and 1573 01:31:05.880 --> 01:31:09.279 then Christopher Nolan is telling a story with Batman, not 1574 01:31:09.359 --> 01:31:12.520 a story that just happens to have Batman. This is Batman. 1575 01:31:12.560 --> 01:31:16.039 We're talking about a character who, for all intents and purposes, 1576 01:31:16.319 --> 01:31:17.840 if you showed it to someone on the other side 1577 01:31:17.840 --> 01:31:20.720 of the globe, they would recognize him. And that's not 1578 01:31:20.880 --> 01:31:22.800 something that can be said for a whole lot of things, 1579 01:31:22.960 --> 01:31:26.840 especially from Western culture anymore. To Spencer's point, like it 1580 01:31:26.960 --> 01:31:30.920 works for a while, but look the way things have gone. 1581 01:31:30.960 --> 01:31:33.840 It's returned back to the thing, to a thing more 1582 01:31:33.880 --> 01:31:35.880 akin to the way it was before, a little bit 1583 01:31:35.920 --> 01:31:39.680 more fantastical, maybe a little bit more serious in the storytelling, 1584 01:31:39.720 --> 01:31:43.079 a little bit more nuanced storytelling, but not so self 1585 01:31:43.119 --> 01:31:45.439 serious that all of the fun has just been trained 1586 01:31:45.439 --> 01:31:48.359 out of it completely and it's just some sort of 1587 01:31:48.399 --> 01:31:53.079 like transactional deal level. His name is Robin, what's your name? Solo? 1588 01:31:54.079 --> 01:31:56.640 Spencer, You've brought up Batman Returns a few times, and 1589 01:31:56.680 --> 01:31:59.439 that's the only other time that we've really dived into 1590 01:31:59.520 --> 01:32:02.960 a Batman and movie was talking about Batman Returns on 1591 01:32:03.000 --> 01:32:06.479 this show years ago, and I think about the scene 1592 01:32:06.840 --> 01:32:11.079 of Selena Kyle and Bruce Wayne at the Masquerade ball 1593 01:32:11.439 --> 01:32:14.680 and how they're speaking to each other about their secret 1594 01:32:14.720 --> 01:32:18.479 identities but not actually speaking about their secret identities, And 1595 01:32:18.520 --> 01:32:22.439 there's a little bit of that here where she asked 1596 01:32:22.479 --> 01:32:24.159 him like, well, who are you supposed to be? And 1597 01:32:24.199 --> 01:32:26.760 he's like, oh, I'm pretending to be Bruce Wayne eccentric 1598 01:32:26.840 --> 01:32:29.680 millionaire or whatever. And I'm just like, don't do that, 1599 01:32:29.720 --> 01:32:32.399 because you are calling to mind a much better movie 1600 01:32:32.520 --> 01:32:33.319 by doing that. 1601 01:32:34.000 --> 01:32:37.520 It's a raising costume for Kappa. 1602 01:32:37.600 --> 01:32:41.039 And yeah, who are you pretending to. 1603 01:32:41.000 --> 01:32:43.720 Be Bruce Wayne eccentric Jona? 1604 01:32:44.760 --> 01:32:45.920 You take off her customers. 1605 01:32:50.279 --> 01:32:51.399 I guess I'm tired. 1606 01:32:51.159 --> 01:32:53.640 To learn math me too. 1607 01:32:56.119 --> 01:32:59.880 The whole thing of of Selena Kyle in Batman or 1608 01:33:00.079 --> 01:33:04.880 Turns was the employee who's been shit on and just 1609 01:33:04.920 --> 01:33:07.439 like comes back for revenge and all you know, it's 1610 01:33:07.479 --> 01:33:12.680 like she is so empowered in that movie. It's so great. 1611 01:33:13.359 --> 01:33:15.520 And then here it's like they're just trying to like 1612 01:33:16.159 --> 01:33:18.319 keep a lid on her. Like like I said, they're 1613 01:33:18.359 --> 01:33:21.680 basically trying to team the cat through this movie. And 1614 01:33:21.720 --> 01:33:24.279 it's like she's got this whole thing of like I 1615 01:33:24.399 --> 01:33:27.159 want this clean slate program. I've made a lot of 1616 01:33:27.199 --> 01:33:28.399 mistakes in my life. 1617 01:33:29.000 --> 01:33:30.159 I got read in my ledger. 1618 01:33:31.159 --> 01:33:32.199 I'd like to wipe it out. 1619 01:33:32.840 --> 01:33:35.279 And again I keep thinking that she's talking about Jen 1620 01:33:35.399 --> 01:33:37.600 as well as all of the other things that she's done, 1621 01:33:38.199 --> 01:33:41.760 and I'm like, okay, yeah, first off that and somebody 1622 01:33:41.880 --> 01:33:43.960 was writing about this movie and they kept they said 1623 01:33:43.960 --> 01:33:45.920 like that was the mcguffin of the film, and I'm like, no, 1624 01:33:45.960 --> 01:33:47.640 that's not a mcguffin of the film, but that is 1625 01:33:47.760 --> 01:33:50.840 over with within like the first twenty minutes of the movie, 1626 01:33:50.960 --> 01:33:54.399 Like they say that doesn't exist, and I'm like, okay, 1627 01:33:54.439 --> 01:33:56.800 I don't know if it really does exist or not exist, 1628 01:33:56.880 --> 01:33:59.560 and they just tell her it doesn't exist. But yeah, they, 1629 01:33:59.880 --> 01:34:02.199 like you said, they forget about it. And the real 1630 01:34:02.279 --> 01:34:04.960 mcguffin is that stupid ticking clock that they have through 1631 01:34:04.960 --> 01:34:07.920 this whole thing that just Baine sets this whole thing 1632 01:34:08.000 --> 01:34:10.479 up at that football game where he's like, one of you, 1633 01:34:10.720 --> 01:34:14.800 how's the detonator And it's like, okay, that doesn't become anything. 1634 01:34:14.920 --> 01:34:18.239 They forget about that too, So it's like, okay, if 1635 01:34:18.239 --> 01:34:21.000 that's the case, maybe we should find that person and 1636 01:34:21.039 --> 01:34:25.680 stop them. But instead it's like literally the last second 1637 01:34:25.920 --> 01:34:29.680 as they are, you know, as Jim Gordon is disarming 1638 01:34:29.720 --> 01:34:32.520 this bomb, but then yet there's another ten minutes on 1639 01:34:32.560 --> 01:34:35.600 it and then yeah, Batman flies it off. We get 1640 01:34:35.640 --> 01:34:39.680 the explosion, and yeah, I love that that piece. Earlier 1641 01:34:39.720 --> 01:34:43.119 in the film, Batman says to Alfred. 1642 01:34:43.720 --> 01:34:45.680 If this man is everything that you say. 1643 01:34:45.520 --> 01:34:49.800 He is, and the city needs me, the city needs 1644 01:34:49.920 --> 01:34:55.479 Bruce Wayne the resourcation, it doesn't need your body for 1645 01:34:55.680 --> 01:34:58.800 your life. The time's past. 1646 01:34:59.000 --> 01:35:01.920 You're afraid that, So I go back out there, I'll fail. 1647 01:35:05.520 --> 01:35:07.560 I'm a fright did you punch you? 1648 01:35:10.399 --> 01:35:14.159 He should die. Batman should have made the ultimate sacrifice 1649 01:35:14.159 --> 01:35:17.319 in this film, because you know what, Christian Bale as 1650 01:35:17.359 --> 01:35:19.520 Batman is not coming back. We're not going to get 1651 01:35:19.560 --> 01:35:22.359 another Christian Bale thing. I really kind of wish that, 1652 01:35:22.600 --> 01:35:26.760 you know, when they brought back Batman in Oh God, 1653 01:35:26.840 --> 01:35:30.680 that shitty flash movie that we're talking about, it's like 1654 01:35:30.800 --> 01:35:34.399 that should have been the Dark Knight version. That should 1655 01:35:34.399 --> 01:35:37.840 have been the Frank Miller version of Batman. Like we've 1656 01:35:37.840 --> 01:35:41.720 been talking for years about having that Frank Miller version 1657 01:35:41.760 --> 01:35:44.880 of Batman on screen. They made a not very good 1658 01:35:44.920 --> 01:35:49.199 animated film out of The Dark Knight Returns. But the 1659 01:35:49.319 --> 01:35:53.840 Dark Knight, like the Frank Miller first book, the non 1660 01:35:54.319 --> 01:35:57.920 overly fascistic one that he wouldn't make after nine to eleven. 1661 01:35:58.560 --> 01:36:01.720 You know that's a great book, and they kind of 1662 01:36:01.760 --> 01:36:06.079 touch on that in the Dark Knight movie because they 1663 01:36:06.119 --> 01:36:08.399 have those like I think they call him sons of 1664 01:36:08.439 --> 01:36:11.279 Batman in the comic book, but they don't really have 1665 01:36:11.319 --> 01:36:13.640 a name for them here. I kind of like that 1666 01:36:13.640 --> 01:36:15.640 that whole thing. And then when he has that line, 1667 01:36:15.640 --> 01:36:17.520 which I know a lot of people make fun of, like, 1668 01:36:17.840 --> 01:36:20.359 you know, you don't see me wearing hockey pads or whatever, 1669 01:36:20.800 --> 01:36:24.399 that to me then calls to mind Frank Miller's Batman 1670 01:36:24.520 --> 01:36:28.800 You're One, which Darren Aronofsky was supposed to direct that. 1671 01:36:29.000 --> 01:36:31.520 I think he worked on a screenplay for it that 1672 01:36:31.600 --> 01:36:34.279 never really came to fruition. And then Matt Reeves, I 1673 01:36:34.319 --> 01:36:37.359 think that his The Batman really owes a lot to 1674 01:36:37.399 --> 01:36:38.079 Frank Miller. 1675 01:36:38.560 --> 01:36:39.359 I agree. 1676 01:36:39.520 --> 01:36:42.000 I wanted to ask something because this is again to 1677 01:36:42.039 --> 01:36:44.640 go to this kind of idea of the stakes of 1678 01:36:44.680 --> 01:36:49.199 the movie kind of being wonky, the characters not necessarily 1679 01:36:49.239 --> 01:36:51.800 seeming like it all hangs together. Could this have all 1680 01:36:51.880 --> 01:36:56.399 been also a symptom of Heath Ledger passing away and 1681 01:36:56.439 --> 01:37:00.520 them having absolutely no idea how to follow up his permance? 1682 01:37:01.039 --> 01:37:04.479 I assume, based on everything I've read and seen as 1683 01:37:04.520 --> 01:37:07.840 well that he was going to be part of this. 1684 01:37:08.479 --> 01:37:11.000 I don't know how much of that is caused by this, 1685 01:37:11.159 --> 01:37:15.960 because I understand plans interrupt us because of the biggest 1686 01:37:15.960 --> 01:37:18.359 part of your last movie. I would even go as 1687 01:37:18.359 --> 01:37:20.840 far as to say, maybe the best thing that any 1688 01:37:20.880 --> 01:37:25.000 of these three movies have in them is Heath Ledger's performance. 1689 01:37:25.399 --> 01:37:29.840 It is the thing by which this entire franchise is remembered. 1690 01:37:30.119 --> 01:37:33.279 Christian Bale's great. Yeah, no one's gonna argue that he's 1691 01:37:33.279 --> 01:37:36.880 one of the better Batman's. However, I don't think he's 1692 01:37:36.920 --> 01:37:39.439 in the conversation for the best. I don't even think 1693 01:37:39.439 --> 01:37:42.920 he's in the conversation for top two. Coincidentally, for me, 1694 01:37:43.079 --> 01:37:46.199 I think that he is fine. I think Heath Ledger 1695 01:37:46.279 --> 01:37:50.000 as the Joker is so good. It's such a memorable performance. 1696 01:37:50.199 --> 01:37:53.119 I don't want to say Joaquin Phoenix's Joker movie prove 1697 01:37:53.199 --> 01:37:55.840 that you can just make a Joker movie, but it 1698 01:37:56.399 --> 01:37:59.640 did so. Again. If you want to have someone just 1699 01:38:00.119 --> 01:38:05.640 give a raucous, balls to the wall, completely out of 1700 01:38:05.720 --> 01:38:10.079 control performance like what He've led your conjured with that 1701 01:38:10.560 --> 01:38:14.239 character in the Dark Night, that's gonna be what the 1702 01:38:14.399 --> 01:38:17.319 entire thing is remembered for. Unless you rise to the 1703 01:38:17.439 --> 01:38:21.720 level of that character. They wrote that character so well 1704 01:38:21.760 --> 01:38:24.359 that nothing else in any of these things rises to 1705 01:38:24.399 --> 01:38:28.800 that level. Maybe Harvey Dent in that second movie, But 1706 01:38:29.479 --> 01:38:32.600 my god, I don't even know why you would try 1707 01:38:32.600 --> 01:38:35.960 to make a third movie other than the obvious. And again, Chris, 1708 01:38:36.000 --> 01:38:40.520 obviously it's because of money. Okay, thank you, everybody gets that, 1709 01:38:40.520 --> 01:38:43.119 that's not what I'm talking about. Why would you even 1710 01:38:43.199 --> 01:38:46.079 try to do this movie the way that they did 1711 01:38:46.079 --> 01:38:49.000 it when it's so clear and obvious that if it 1712 01:38:49.000 --> 01:38:52.039 had just been The Joker, this movie might have worked 1713 01:38:52.800 --> 01:38:56.520 three times as well, just because he'd Ledger's performance would 1714 01:38:56.560 --> 01:38:58.960 have worked better with the message that they were trying 1715 01:38:58.960 --> 01:39:01.399 to get at in this movie. Yes, they would have 1716 01:39:01.439 --> 01:39:03.399 had to make changes, Yes things would have been different, 1717 01:39:03.479 --> 01:39:07.159 But I think so much of this movie stems from 1718 01:39:07.159 --> 01:39:10.720 something that is outside, that was outside of their control. 1719 01:39:11.279 --> 01:39:17.239 Yet they didn't really do anything to rectify the lacking 1720 01:39:17.319 --> 01:39:20.680 in that performance. And so I wonder I put it 1721 01:39:20.680 --> 01:39:23.600 to y'all, is how much of what this movie's kind 1722 01:39:23.600 --> 01:39:26.439 of failures are is tied up in not being able 1723 01:39:26.479 --> 01:39:28.560 to rise to the occasion of the Joker from the 1724 01:39:28.600 --> 01:39:31.560 last film. Also, just not even being able to have 1725 01:39:31.680 --> 01:39:33.399 Heath Ledger in this movie. 1726 01:39:33.479 --> 01:39:37.359 I would say that that that makes sense here. We 1727 01:39:37.359 --> 01:39:39.920 could blame the studio the most, but I just gotta 1728 01:39:39.960 --> 01:39:42.800 say they could make a third Batman movie in the 1729 01:39:42.880 --> 01:39:45.800 series without Heath Ledger, but the need to go and 1730 01:39:45.800 --> 01:39:50.840 make it so quickly. The choices here speak ill. That's 1731 01:39:50.880 --> 01:39:54.520 the excuse that because it couldn't be Joker, then that's 1732 01:39:54.560 --> 01:39:56.880 why the movie ends up falling down. I don't think 1733 01:39:56.920 --> 01:39:59.399 that's a very good excuse, and I think that really 1734 01:39:59.399 --> 01:40:05.159 speaks ill of everybody involved for needing to make more money, 1735 01:40:05.199 --> 01:40:07.319 to milk more money out of it as a franchise. 1736 01:40:08.079 --> 01:40:11.319 When a person has died, Yeah, then change your plan, 1737 01:40:11.479 --> 01:40:14.600 spend another couple of years thinking about it, whatever it 1738 01:40:14.680 --> 01:40:17.159 is that they might have had planned. 1739 01:40:17.319 --> 01:40:18.039 One way or the other. 1740 01:40:18.960 --> 01:40:22.319 One of the things that's interesting here is that this 1741 01:40:22.359 --> 01:40:26.560 movie I believe came four years after Dark Knight, but 1742 01:40:26.680 --> 01:40:30.159 they say eight years, and so it's like they've given 1743 01:40:30.199 --> 01:40:35.039 this longer gap And there's really that's interesting to me 1744 01:40:35.119 --> 01:40:39.359 because it speaks to the problem that maybe basically what 1745 01:40:39.439 --> 01:40:42.479 they needed to do if they were taking this world 1746 01:40:42.520 --> 01:40:46.199 seriously and they wanted to take it was an argument 1747 01:40:47.079 --> 01:40:49.479 I think in good faith in the first two movies 1748 01:40:49.800 --> 01:40:52.520 is an argument about justice, an argument about how it's 1749 01:40:52.520 --> 01:40:55.720 supposed to work, an argument about how power is used, 1750 01:40:55.720 --> 01:40:59.800 how it can be used, and then spend the time 1751 01:40:59.840 --> 01:41:05.439 that it takes to continue that good faith argument, whether 1752 01:41:05.560 --> 01:41:09.000 or not somebody like me is going to agree with it, 1753 01:41:09.880 --> 01:41:14.960 but to continue that sense of argument between these combating 1754 01:41:15.039 --> 01:41:20.119 forces in the world, and a sort of engagement with 1755 01:41:20.159 --> 01:41:24.279 the audience thinking about what they want a need from 1756 01:41:24.439 --> 01:41:28.239 justice and from government. Again, not a bad thing and 1757 01:41:28.279 --> 01:41:31.560 not a bad thing to do on a comic book level. 1758 01:41:31.600 --> 01:41:33.880 That doesn't only dump down and that doesn't only make 1759 01:41:33.920 --> 01:41:36.279 it superficial. And as much as I disagree with the 1760 01:41:36.279 --> 01:41:39.159 first two movies, I think they're for real. The thrill, 1761 01:41:39.319 --> 01:41:44.039 the entertainment for me is in watching this back and forth. 1762 01:41:44.720 --> 01:41:48.319 If they had just spent that time, then perhaps they 1763 01:41:48.319 --> 01:41:52.159 could have gotten there. And if their plan was to 1764 01:41:52.199 --> 01:41:56.520 have the joker, that really suggests, all right, back off, 1765 01:41:56.600 --> 01:41:58.880 let's spend another couple of years before we do this. 1766 01:41:59.279 --> 01:42:03.159 We will still make money in six or eight years 1767 01:42:03.199 --> 01:42:06.239 between movies, as we will with four years in between. 1768 01:42:06.600 --> 01:42:08.640 And yeah, maybe Warner Brothers was going to go ahead 1769 01:42:08.680 --> 01:42:12.359 and make another sequel without them. But what happened that 1770 01:42:12.479 --> 01:42:17.279 got Joel Schumacher and Val Kilmer involved in Batman Forever? 1771 01:42:17.399 --> 01:42:21.960 The thing's broke down with Tim Burton. But they've done this, 1772 01:42:22.039 --> 01:42:23.159 they've gone down that road. 1773 01:42:23.239 --> 01:42:26.439 Why not maybe somebody else should be at bat That's 1774 01:42:26.479 --> 01:42:29.399 how the comic books work. The writers, the artists get 1775 01:42:29.439 --> 01:42:34.079 replaced all the time, and that revivifies the mythology. I 1776 01:42:34.119 --> 01:42:35.960 guess I'm on the side of go full comic book. 1777 01:42:36.239 --> 01:42:39.199 That's my thesis for everything I've been saying. 1778 01:42:39.920 --> 01:42:42.439 It just doesn't honor the memory. Honestly, with the heat 1779 01:42:42.479 --> 01:42:47.000 Ledger performance that this third movie just limps along, doesn't 1780 01:42:47.079 --> 01:42:51.680 really do much, doesn't even reach the where the end 1781 01:42:51.760 --> 01:42:54.840 of the last movie is. This movie doesn't even get there. 1782 01:42:55.319 --> 01:42:57.520 This movie doesn't reach the highs of the last movie 1783 01:42:57.560 --> 01:43:00.720 at all. But it doesn't even it's not even starting 1784 01:43:00.760 --> 01:43:03.159 at the same spot that the last movie ended. Make 1785 01:43:03.239 --> 01:43:05.199 this a comic book thing? Why are we so afraid 1786 01:43:05.199 --> 01:43:06.159 to have a good time? 1787 01:43:06.399 --> 01:43:10.720 Jesus, Yeah, you're talking about the whole James Bond thing. 1788 01:43:10.840 --> 01:43:15.600 I mean, the Dark Knight begins with basically James Bond sequence, 1789 01:43:15.840 --> 01:43:19.479 with this whole idea of the Bank robbery, and really 1790 01:43:20.119 --> 01:43:24.079 they should not have started with Commissioner Gordon or at 1791 01:43:24.119 --> 01:43:26.640 the time Captain Gordon or whatever his rank is in 1792 01:43:26.720 --> 01:43:28.840 this one. They shouldn't have started with Gary Oldman. They 1793 01:43:28.840 --> 01:43:32.840 should have just done this cold open to introduce Spain, 1794 01:43:33.000 --> 01:43:35.359 the same thing I think we saw in that teaser trailer. 1795 01:43:36.319 --> 01:43:38.399 That should have been your open, and then they should 1796 01:43:38.399 --> 01:43:40.760 have gone on from there. But again to your point, 1797 01:43:40.840 --> 01:43:43.600 I agree, it's not a very good action sequence. They 1798 01:43:43.640 --> 01:43:47.319 never rise to that level of either of those set 1799 01:43:47.319 --> 01:43:50.479 pieces of the Well, there's quite a few set pieces 1800 01:43:50.520 --> 01:43:54.159 in the second movie, but like the opening with that 1801 01:43:54.199 --> 01:43:58.479 bank robbery, that bank robbery is freaking amazing. I love that. 1802 01:43:58.640 --> 01:44:00.880 I love how it all comes together. I love all 1803 01:44:00.920 --> 01:44:04.359 of the criminals killing each other this whole like you know, no, 1804 01:44:04.439 --> 01:44:05.880 I'm supposed to kill the bus driver. 1805 01:44:06.039 --> 01:44:06.239 Thing. 1806 01:44:06.560 --> 01:44:10.560 William Fickner in there is just so fricking good. The 1807 01:44:10.680 --> 01:44:14.840 reveal of the the of Heath Ledger himself is great. 1808 01:44:15.279 --> 01:44:20.000 Just him standing there on the street with those slumped shoulders, 1809 01:44:20.079 --> 01:44:24.560 holding that mask, that body language that he brings to 1810 01:44:24.680 --> 01:44:29.800 that first shot of the movie is so great. You 1811 01:44:29.920 --> 01:44:32.000 never come back to something like that, and this one 1812 01:44:32.039 --> 01:44:35.560 you never come back to that semi stunt that they had. 1813 01:44:36.119 --> 01:44:39.560 It just yeah, feels so pale in comparison. I mean 1814 01:44:39.600 --> 01:44:42.840 when they come to the big riot at the end, 1815 01:44:43.439 --> 01:44:46.359 I mean, come on, guys, it's a group of however 1816 01:44:46.439 --> 01:44:49.199 many hundreds of police officers on one side. It's a 1817 01:44:49.199 --> 01:44:53.199 group of however many criminals on the other side. They 1818 01:44:53.239 --> 01:44:58.239 have Batman's vehicles there, Like basically they have two or 1819 01:44:58.279 --> 01:45:03.239 three batmobiles there. One fires off one shot Batman I 1820 01:45:03.239 --> 01:45:07.680 guess takes that blast in the bat his jet that 1821 01:45:07.720 --> 01:45:10.720 he has, and then that's it. He fucks off. After that, 1822 01:45:10.800 --> 01:45:13.079 I'm like, well, they got a lot more rounds than 1823 01:45:13.199 --> 01:45:16.960 just one, Like they should just lay waste to those cops. 1824 01:45:17.000 --> 01:45:20.039 Like this makes And again I don't want to just 1825 01:45:20.119 --> 01:45:22.640 keep pointing out like logical flaws in this, but it's 1826 01:45:22.680 --> 01:45:25.720 just like so at the end, basically you take all 1827 01:45:25.760 --> 01:45:27.760 of your action figures in your right hand and all 1828 01:45:27.760 --> 01:45:29.640 of your action figures in your left hand, and you 1829 01:45:29.680 --> 01:45:32.760 just start smashing them together because that's the riot. At 1830 01:45:32.760 --> 01:45:35.439 the end of this, it's like, what are you guys doing, 1831 01:45:35.560 --> 01:45:39.000 Like where's the nuance? You know, Like yeah, like you're saying, 1832 01:45:39.079 --> 01:45:41.920 chrys the whole idea of the two boats and stuff. Yeah, 1833 01:45:41.960 --> 01:45:45.399 that's basically just a you know, a trolley car exercise 1834 01:45:45.479 --> 01:45:48.159 kind of thing. But it's like, yeah, at least that's something. 1835 01:45:48.199 --> 01:45:51.239 At least you got freaking debo there, Like taking the 1836 01:45:52.199 --> 01:45:54.479 remote control and saying I'm going to do what you 1837 01:45:54.520 --> 01:45:56.199 can't do, and I'm going to do what you should 1838 01:45:56.239 --> 01:45:58.279 have done a long time ago, and throwing that out 1839 01:45:58.279 --> 01:46:00.640 of the ferry. You know, it's like, yeah, there you go, 1840 01:46:01.039 --> 01:46:04.079 that's your thing. And then disappointing the Joker that his 1841 01:46:04.159 --> 01:46:07.720 plan didn't come through. I love that his big moment 1842 01:46:08.359 --> 01:46:09.840 is a moment of disappointment. 1843 01:46:10.800 --> 01:46:13.960 There's nothing like that in this movie. Nothing even comes close. 1844 01:46:15.000 --> 01:46:16.359 I don't understand. 1845 01:46:15.880 --> 01:46:20.760 Why abbloviating about the people and the city and all that. 1846 01:46:21.520 --> 01:46:27.199 In Dark Night it's small. I would say it's not sufficient, 1847 01:46:27.319 --> 01:46:28.079 it's not enough. 1848 01:46:28.199 --> 01:46:32.560 But we get a character on the prison boat, we 1849 01:46:32.600 --> 01:46:36.279 get a character on the citizen boat. There are actors 1850 01:46:36.359 --> 01:46:40.520 that have to act these small roles representing ordinary people. 1851 01:46:41.359 --> 01:46:44.199 Those kinds of roles should be bigger in that movie 1852 01:46:44.199 --> 01:46:48.720 as well, but they exist and they make decisive choice 1853 01:46:49.199 --> 01:46:53.439 within the film that then, yeah, brings disappointment to the 1854 01:46:53.560 --> 01:46:57.399 nihilism of the Joker and quite frankly, the nihilism of 1855 01:46:57.439 --> 01:47:01.199 a lot of the folks in the audience think that 1856 01:47:01.279 --> 01:47:04.239 the Joker is really cool, and we know that, we 1857 01:47:04.319 --> 01:47:06.560 know that they're out there there. There were lots of 1858 01:47:07.079 --> 01:47:11.000 those folks. That's good dramaturgy for the part of the audience. 1859 01:47:11.359 --> 01:47:14.720 I'm not going to write those folks off. It's actually 1860 01:47:14.760 --> 01:47:17.239 like a good thing to go through a drama where 1861 01:47:17.880 --> 01:47:22.680 that kind of hardcore, dark, blackpilled, nihilistic view of the 1862 01:47:22.680 --> 01:47:28.399 world is then thrown into disappointment. That's a good thing. 1863 01:47:28.479 --> 01:47:30.960 That's a good thing that you can do for different 1864 01:47:31.199 --> 01:47:35.319 portions of your audience. So yeah, we just don't have 1865 01:47:35.359 --> 01:47:39.319 anything that can arrive. They're clear enough. And we also 1866 01:47:40.199 --> 01:47:42.960 like all the cinemasins kind of stuff that we've mentioned 1867 01:47:42.960 --> 01:47:46.359 going along. It's because the movie doesn't embrace dream logic 1868 01:47:46.640 --> 01:47:49.479 or the kind of fantasy where you can leave gaps 1869 01:47:50.399 --> 01:47:53.960 the fantasy logic of Raiders of the Lost Arc, for instance, 1870 01:47:54.000 --> 01:47:56.640 where you can cinemasins the hell out of that movie. 1871 01:47:56.960 --> 01:47:59.920 But it's part of the entertainment, it's part of the fun, 1872 01:48:00.000 --> 01:48:03.600 and it's a logic of the world that helps all 1873 01:48:03.600 --> 01:48:04.640 the stuff come together. 1874 01:48:05.600 --> 01:48:07.079 And we just don't have that. 1875 01:48:07.399 --> 01:48:09.520 I do want to quickly mention, because you brought up 1876 01:48:09.800 --> 01:48:14.159 the opening of the original Dark Knight, I'm not using 1877 01:48:14.199 --> 01:48:17.039 this example to slag on that movie or how that's done. 1878 01:48:17.920 --> 01:48:21.640 I am gonna say it is a masterful ripoff of 1879 01:48:21.680 --> 01:48:26.920 a masterful sequence at the beginning of Andrea's Zulovsky's Lamore 1880 01:48:27.000 --> 01:48:28.960 Brock Zulawski. 1881 01:48:28.479 --> 01:48:31.359 Who you might know who did Possession. 1882 01:48:31.680 --> 01:48:36.359 Everybody knows the Isabella Johnny meme from Possession, and a 1883 01:48:36.359 --> 01:48:38.840 lot of people have seen that Lamore Brock a little 1884 01:48:38.880 --> 01:48:42.560 bit more obscure film, but it opens with a bank 1885 01:48:42.640 --> 01:48:48.800 robbery of guys in Disney character masks that has so 1886 01:48:48.920 --> 01:48:53.119 many similarities to this opening. My only issue with Nolan 1887 01:48:53.239 --> 01:48:55.920 stealing from it is he It would be nice if, 1888 01:48:55.960 --> 01:48:59.159 in some interview somewhere or a commentary or whatever, had 1889 01:48:59.199 --> 01:49:03.880 acknowledged the Zulovsky got there first. And Nolan definitely bests 1890 01:49:04.079 --> 01:49:07.920 that sequence in terms of grandeur and effects and everything. 1891 01:49:07.920 --> 01:49:11.239 He's got a much bigger budget, but Julovsky was there 1892 01:49:11.279 --> 01:49:13.960 first and did an amazing job, and it looks so 1893 01:49:14.119 --> 01:49:18.159 similar I cannot but believe that there's a ripoff that 1894 01:49:18.279 --> 01:49:19.079 was perpetrated. 1895 01:49:19.279 --> 01:49:21.119 A ripoff I approve of but a ripoff. 1896 01:49:21.119 --> 01:49:24.359 Nonetheless, I like Spencer, you're talking about the lack of 1897 01:49:24.439 --> 01:49:27.000 dream logic in this film. Why not just have had 1898 01:49:27.000 --> 01:49:30.079 Harvey Dent come back that was less rhetorical but more 1899 01:49:30.119 --> 01:49:32.560 the movie answers it and you answered it as well, Spencer, 1900 01:49:32.640 --> 01:49:37.600 which is, there isn't a need to bring someone back 1901 01:49:37.600 --> 01:49:39.359 who you killed at the end of the last movie. 1902 01:49:39.399 --> 01:49:43.199 But why did you insist upon killing him at the 1903 01:49:43.279 --> 01:49:45.680 end of the last movie. That's the part that. 1904 01:49:45.680 --> 01:49:46.840 You could have put him in the archay. 1905 01:49:46.880 --> 01:49:49.680 Yeah, I will never understand why they don't lean into 1906 01:49:49.760 --> 01:49:54.439 the trappings of Batman of the things that are obvious. 1907 01:49:54.760 --> 01:49:54.960 Yeah. 1908 01:49:55.079 --> 01:49:58.920 Put here's the thing. That's where the Joker went at 1909 01:49:59.000 --> 01:50:01.640 the end of the last movie is he went to Arkham. 1910 01:50:01.680 --> 01:50:04.640 But what's the point? What are we gonna do if 1911 01:50:04.640 --> 01:50:06.600 he led Your can't go back as the Joker, We 1912 01:50:06.680 --> 01:50:09.760 can't James Bond of the Joker, though again, we totally 1913 01:50:09.920 --> 01:50:12.560 could have done that as well. There's a version of 1914 01:50:12.560 --> 01:50:14.720 the Joker in the comics who literally cuts off his 1915 01:50:14.760 --> 01:50:18.680 own face and reattaches it with belt loops. There are 1916 01:50:18.720 --> 01:50:20.079 plenty of ways to do this, but not if you 1917 01:50:20.159 --> 01:50:22.920 refuse to even have dream logic or any level of 1918 01:50:23.000 --> 01:50:29.479 fun or wanting to engage with the medium on its terms. 1919 01:50:29.640 --> 01:50:32.439 It's like you, unless you engage it with it on 1920 01:50:32.520 --> 01:50:35.600 my terms, I don't care, and I don't care about 1921 01:50:35.600 --> 01:50:37.520 the things that I don't like. I don't care about 1922 01:50:37.560 --> 01:50:39.520 the things that don't work within my scope and scheme 1923 01:50:39.560 --> 01:50:43.479 of things because it's not my thing, and I feel 1924 01:50:43.479 --> 01:50:45.560 like Nolan and a lot of these other directors that's 1925 01:50:45.600 --> 01:50:48.159 their thing. It's like, I just won't lower myself to 1926 01:50:48.199 --> 01:50:50.479 the silly level of a guy in a bat outfit. 1927 01:50:50.520 --> 01:50:54.760 It's got to be a conversation about the heroes and villains, 1928 01:50:54.800 --> 01:50:57.239 and it can a hero be good and bad at 1929 01:50:57.239 --> 01:51:01.399 the same time. It's like, oh, okay, all right, James 1930 01:51:01.479 --> 01:51:03.319 Gunn did it better in super You want to have 1931 01:51:03.399 --> 01:51:05.359 a conversation like that, There are ways to have that. 1932 01:51:05.800 --> 01:51:08.560 There are ways to have that conversation that don't necessitate 1933 01:51:08.720 --> 01:51:12.279 roping Batman or Superman or any of these other characters 1934 01:51:12.279 --> 01:51:14.000 into it. Say what you will about the MCU and 1935 01:51:14.000 --> 01:51:16.319 it all feeling the same and having the same tone. 1936 01:51:16.600 --> 01:51:18.960 At least, it all is acknowledging the fact that it 1937 01:51:19.000 --> 01:51:23.239 comes from silly comic books. Marvel has elevated the MCU 1938 01:51:23.279 --> 01:51:26.000 stuff and taking it more seriously than I think people 1939 01:51:26.640 --> 01:51:28.560 fail to give it any credit for. It's just not 1940 01:51:29.159 --> 01:51:32.680 self serious. It's not super serious. It's not serious in 1941 01:51:32.760 --> 01:51:36.199 place of having fun like these movies are. These movies 1942 01:51:36.239 --> 01:51:37.560 are barely even fun. 1943 01:51:37.920 --> 01:51:40.840 One of my favorite things about the Zack Snyder cut 1944 01:51:40.880 --> 01:51:45.600 of Justice League is that completely bizarre last ten to 1945 01:51:45.680 --> 01:51:48.039 fifteen minutes of. 1946 01:51:47.920 --> 01:51:50.560 It the best part of the movie, you mean. 1947 01:51:50.840 --> 01:51:53.039 Where it like goes a little bit into the future, 1948 01:51:53.239 --> 01:51:57.079 and it's like Zack Snyder's dream of setting up a 1949 01:51:57.079 --> 01:51:58.960 whole bunch of sequels that he's never going to get 1950 01:51:58.960 --> 01:52:03.560 to do. And the thing is, it's completely surreal and bizarre. 1951 01:52:04.239 --> 01:52:06.359 I don't understand why the. 1952 01:52:06.359 --> 01:52:10.600 Joker has suddenly popped up Martian Manhunter. The end of 1953 01:52:10.640 --> 01:52:15.319 the movie is I'm Martian Manhunter and then he flies away. 1954 01:52:15.680 --> 01:52:18.000 Who can imagine such things? 1955 01:52:18.760 --> 01:52:22.239 This is total utter craziness, and I'm actually here for it. 1956 01:52:22.560 --> 01:52:24.960 Unfortunately I have to be here for it after four 1957 01:52:25.000 --> 01:52:28.119 hours of the rest of that goddamn movie. But I 1958 01:52:28.159 --> 01:52:31.359 will say one other part of the Zack Snyder Justice 1959 01:52:31.399 --> 01:52:33.239 League there are moments in it that I genuinely love. 1960 01:52:34.000 --> 01:52:38.000 I will say the Zack Snyder Justice League, but Wonder 1961 01:52:38.039 --> 01:52:44.159 Woman beheading the main villain with a giant sword? What 1962 01:52:44.960 --> 01:52:47.159 how did we get here? How did we imagine this? 1963 01:52:47.880 --> 01:52:51.560 I'm here for it. That's great. The crazy flash sequence 1964 01:52:51.600 --> 01:52:53.920 where everything goes super slow and all the lot like 1965 01:52:54.159 --> 01:52:57.640 hot dogs and buns are flying through the air in slow. 1966 01:52:57.399 --> 01:53:01.399 Motion on the babies and the babies. 1967 01:53:01.359 --> 01:53:04.600 So completely batshit crazy. That's some fun. 1968 01:53:04.960 --> 01:53:09.920 Yeah, Zack Snyder not my favorite filmmaker, but genuinely has 1969 01:53:09.960 --> 01:53:13.119 a passion and imagination for this stuff. 1970 01:53:13.720 --> 01:53:14.119 Totally. 1971 01:53:14.159 --> 01:53:17.479 Two points of Excess is into a whole weird, grim 1972 01:53:17.560 --> 01:53:20.680 dark thing that I don't fully understand. Oh, Batman versus 1973 01:53:20.720 --> 01:53:24.039 Superman has one of my favorite bizarro I don't understand 1974 01:53:24.039 --> 01:53:27.079 what this is kind of sequences where all of a sudden, 1975 01:53:27.159 --> 01:53:29.279 Batman comes out with a machine gun and he's like 1976 01:53:29.479 --> 01:53:32.039 shooting a bunch of people and then they're flying villains 1977 01:53:32.039 --> 01:53:34.239 and shit, and then he wakes up out of a dream, 1978 01:53:34.319 --> 01:53:36.840 and then the Flash appears to him on a computer 1979 01:53:36.960 --> 01:53:39.079 screen and yells a bunch of shit that nobody can 1980 01:53:39.119 --> 01:53:42.520 possibly understand, and then Batman is asleep and wakes up 1981 01:53:42.560 --> 01:53:44.000 a second time out of a dream. 1982 01:53:44.560 --> 01:53:48.920 Amazing, you just explained why I love that movie so much. Fence, 1983 01:53:49.720 --> 01:53:50.920 I'm kidding, I'm joking. 1984 01:53:51.000 --> 01:53:55.840 Obviously, I love that part, and I actually love the 1985 01:53:55.880 --> 01:53:59.760 casting of Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor that now talk 1986 01:53:59.760 --> 01:54:04.119 about appreciant that turned out to predict the future of 1987 01:54:04.159 --> 01:54:08.159 the world. Casting a Zuckerberg a character as Lex l 1988 01:54:08.279 --> 01:54:12.239 Luthor that is imaginative politics in a movie. That was 1989 01:54:12.279 --> 01:54:15.399 a good move to me. Yeah, those movies are super 1990 01:54:15.439 --> 01:54:18.760 all over the place. They're crazy. But when I watched 1991 01:54:18.920 --> 01:54:23.000 Batman versus Superman on a plane, people around me noticed 1992 01:54:24.000 --> 01:54:28.399 when that like crazy dream sequence happened because I could 1993 01:54:28.399 --> 01:54:31.960 not contain myself. And if any of those folks on 1994 01:54:31.960 --> 01:54:36.279 the plane are recognizing this, I sincerely apologize. 1995 01:54:35.840 --> 01:54:40.199 That sequence, the dream sequence. There's a group called the 1996 01:54:40.359 --> 01:54:44.359 Oral Knots and they basically redid that sequence and they 1997 01:54:44.399 --> 01:54:46.800 had a whole rap song. 1998 01:54:48.920 --> 01:54:55.119 Proof, Oh Flash you from the future. The lyricy fresh, 1999 01:54:55.640 --> 01:54:59.560 specially with the face and like the face, well, it's greatest. 2000 01:54:59.600 --> 01:55:02.520 The tech dude can't stay on my case, yam, I'm 2001 01:55:02.600 --> 01:55:05.199 running in place, so keep up if you can. 2002 01:55:05.840 --> 01:55:08.359 I've brought it so fast and I'm my whole hype 2003 01:55:08.439 --> 01:55:10.479 man who sold is it up, Bruce. 2004 01:55:10.680 --> 01:55:14.439 Shit's about to get real, like smooths running circles around 2005 01:55:14.439 --> 01:55:17.199 the Man of Steam and dark Side. 2006 01:55:17.079 --> 01:55:18.880 Is coming, so we gotta prepare. 2007 01:55:19.119 --> 01:55:22.399 You gotta get your lazy ass out out of the chair. 2008 01:55:22.760 --> 01:55:24.560 But before I pass out. 2009 01:55:24.439 --> 01:55:27.960 From speed fatigue, I'd like to introduce you to. 2010 01:55:28.119 --> 01:55:32.039 The chaste smooth, the first running nets coming from the 2011 01:55:32.159 --> 01:55:32.800 deep Head. 2012 01:55:33.000 --> 01:55:36.479 It's your boy on Coleman, the Vicious Member four friend. 2013 01:55:36.640 --> 01:55:40.119 The Black Herman, Lader, Files Dice and his creator. He 2014 01:55:40.319 --> 01:55:43.079 doesn't think you're real, Mamill explained it to him later. 2015 01:55:43.319 --> 01:55:46.239 Woman's here, which you already knew. 2016 01:55:46.920 --> 01:55:48.279 So why the hell did you ask? 2017 01:55:50.640 --> 01:55:50.960 Damn? 2018 01:55:51.880 --> 01:55:54.439 I just brought the Fourth Walk. Can't you track of 2019 01:55:54.600 --> 01:55:54.920 at all? 2020 01:55:55.079 --> 01:55:56.600 I'll come Zack Snyder recall. 2021 01:56:01.279 --> 01:56:05.920 And they also did a whole thing of Batman The 2022 01:56:06.000 --> 01:56:09.960 Dark Knight Rises, where they went through and redid all 2023 01:56:10.000 --> 01:56:13.600 these scenes of Bain talking about the importance of fiber 2024 01:56:13.720 --> 01:56:18.119 in your diet, or did you have folk breakfast? 2025 01:56:20.239 --> 01:56:24.439 Answer him, I was asking you. 2026 01:56:26.039 --> 01:56:27.439 A bagel with cream cheese. 2027 01:56:28.600 --> 01:56:31.800 Have you heard the phrase you are what you eat? 2028 01:56:34.760 --> 01:56:37.920 Because when I look at you, guess what I see. 2029 01:56:39.720 --> 01:56:47.800 I'll tell you bagel and cream cheese. What did you 2030 01:56:47.920 --> 01:56:50.439 eat a frownie biscuit? 2031 01:56:51.800 --> 01:56:54.239 Then they did a whole thing where at the stadium 2032 01:56:54.880 --> 01:56:58.279 he has Doctor Pavel there and he's just like, who 2033 01:56:58.399 --> 01:57:01.039 was the only man who could beat me in freestyle? 2034 01:57:01.199 --> 01:57:03.399 And the guy goes, you know, only me, and then 2035 01:57:03.439 --> 01:57:06.239 he cracks that guy's neck and then he goes DJ 2036 01:57:06.640 --> 01:57:09.359 drop a beat and then he raps for like five 2037 01:57:09.439 --> 01:57:12.239 minutes until somebody yells out, you suck Bane, and they 2038 01:57:12.439 --> 01:57:13.560 just like kill them all. 2039 01:57:13.840 --> 01:57:15.159 It is so good. 2040 01:57:15.840 --> 01:57:17.960 So some good art did come out of this movie. 2041 01:57:18.159 --> 01:57:22.279 Let's as we wrap up, let's accentuate the positive. The 2042 01:57:22.399 --> 01:57:25.640 Dark Knight rose so that we can have these amazing 2043 01:57:26.560 --> 01:57:27.359 cultural gifts. 2044 01:57:27.920 --> 01:57:30.239 They knew the best parts of this movie because that 2045 01:57:30.439 --> 01:57:32.760 was one of the things they included in the promotional 2046 01:57:32.880 --> 01:57:36.359 materials for this film was the football stadium scene. They 2047 01:57:36.439 --> 01:57:38.920 knew what they had. They knew what they had. They 2048 01:57:39.000 --> 01:57:40.079 didn't have much else. 2049 01:57:40.840 --> 01:57:43.760 It's the only really visually spectacular scene of the movie. 2050 01:57:43.800 --> 01:57:47.199 I mean, even the chase on the motorcycles is really 2051 01:57:47.560 --> 01:57:49.960 cold soup compared to anything else. 2052 01:57:50.399 --> 01:57:53.000 How about Bane and Batman fighting on the steps of 2053 01:57:53.119 --> 01:57:56.239 town hall. Oh my god, this is the yeah, you're 2054 01:57:56.279 --> 01:57:59.479 putting me to sleep here, And then again we have 2055 01:57:59.680 --> 01:58:04.720 the always fun goofy visuals of having a character light 2056 01:58:04.880 --> 01:58:10.239 something on fire to create a symbol of their iconography. 2057 01:58:10.319 --> 01:58:14.119 It always just reminds me of John Travolta being dragged 2058 01:58:14.159 --> 01:58:16.880 behind a car in The Punisher and then you seeing 2059 01:58:16.960 --> 01:58:20.399 the Punisher's skull from the sky as John Travolta is 2060 01:58:20.439 --> 01:58:23.319 being blown up on the ground and lit on fire. 2061 01:58:23.840 --> 01:58:26.479 So I was like, who was seeing this? Who is 2062 01:58:26.520 --> 01:58:29.520 this for? How did he even know? That's a little 2063 01:58:29.560 --> 01:58:32.199 bit more fantastical than this. This is just the entire 2064 01:58:32.319 --> 01:58:35.640 bridge is on fire. But again it's just you don't 2065 01:58:36.079 --> 01:58:39.560 like Spencer. You said like you don't want to acknowledge 2066 01:58:39.600 --> 01:58:41.720 how silly this is until you do. But you do 2067 01:58:41.800 --> 01:58:45.399 it in the most milk toast kind of nah in 2068 01:58:46.159 --> 01:58:48.720 like halfway in, halfway out way, And it's like, okay, 2069 01:58:48.880 --> 01:58:51.319 so you know that this is silly, and I know 2070 01:58:51.560 --> 01:58:54.119 that you can acknowledge that this is silly. You just 2071 01:58:54.640 --> 01:58:57.920 don't want to, So go make the Odyssey, Then go 2072 01:58:58.079 --> 01:59:01.800 make Dunkirk, Go make something else that's actually exciting to you. 2073 01:59:01.920 --> 01:59:04.279 Don't go I don't have any real interest in making 2074 01:59:04.319 --> 01:59:05.520 this movie, then don't make it. 2075 01:59:06.439 --> 01:59:09.119 I was watching a video about this earlier today and 2076 01:59:09.399 --> 01:59:11.279 was like, oh yeah, and then he went off and 2077 01:59:11.359 --> 01:59:13.439 he did Inception and that was a huge hit. I 2078 01:59:13.560 --> 01:59:16.319 was like, yeah, so many people I know watched that movie, 2079 01:59:16.319 --> 01:59:20.359 and I'm like the whole argument of original ip versus 2080 01:59:21.000 --> 01:59:24.560 an established property like a Batman. It's like, yes, of 2081 01:59:24.680 --> 01:59:27.680 course you blew the doors off when you were making 2082 01:59:27.760 --> 01:59:30.920 those movies. And so many people saw them because the 2083 01:59:31.000 --> 01:59:35.119 first two pretty decent movies, especially that second one. It's like, 2084 01:59:35.359 --> 01:59:38.079 people will go see your stuff. People did go see 2085 01:59:38.199 --> 01:59:41.680 Tenant even though it was during the pandemic, and I'm 2086 01:59:41.760 --> 01:59:43.520 sure yeah, a lot of people are probably going to 2087 01:59:43.560 --> 01:59:46.560 go see The Odyssey. It's like, yeah, you can actually 2088 01:59:46.640 --> 01:59:48.800 do some original stuff. You don't have to rely on 2089 01:59:48.880 --> 01:59:52.119 the superhero films unless you make them yours, which I 2090 01:59:52.239 --> 01:59:54.680 feel like he did in those first two films, and 2091 01:59:54.800 --> 01:59:57.159 then just really crapped out on this third one. 2092 01:59:57.960 --> 02:00:01.840 I think the second one is genuinely a great film, 2093 02:00:02.039 --> 02:00:05.199 a well made film. It's not again to go further. 2094 02:00:05.319 --> 02:00:08.119 It's not just a good comic book movie. It transcends 2095 02:00:08.319 --> 02:00:10.359 comic book film and it's a good film. It as 2096 02:00:10.399 --> 02:00:14.439 an Oscar winning performance, it has amazing visuals, It has 2097 02:00:14.760 --> 02:00:18.640 decent enough performances. Look, you cast Christian Bale as Bruce 2098 02:00:18.680 --> 02:00:22.479 Wayne and he was played Patrick Bateman in American Psycho. 2099 02:00:22.760 --> 02:00:25.319 We get it. The second movie is really the only 2100 02:00:25.399 --> 02:00:27.680 movie where they even traffic a little bit in that 2101 02:00:27.920 --> 02:00:30.479 which again, don't pretend like those of us who don't 2102 02:00:30.520 --> 02:00:33.239 know cinema language don't know that's what you were also 2103 02:00:33.600 --> 02:00:37.119 doing here, like at least partially going well, that's a 2104 02:00:37.159 --> 02:00:40.279 thing that could totally work, because it's already worked for me. 2105 02:00:40.840 --> 02:00:45.199 That second movie is outside of everything else, Like it's 2106 02:00:45.239 --> 02:00:47.279 almost like Raiders of the Lost Arc. I'm not saying 2107 02:00:47.319 --> 02:00:50.319 it's a perfect movie, but I think the second movie 2108 02:00:50.439 --> 02:00:53.399 is definitely up there for one of Nolan's best, if 2109 02:00:53.479 --> 02:00:57.079 not in the conversation for Nolan's best movie. And look, 2110 02:00:57.199 --> 02:01:02.199 this movie made so much money. This movie wasn't financially unsuccessful. 2111 02:01:03.000 --> 02:01:04.960 That's the crazy thing. Like this movie made a ton 2112 02:01:05.039 --> 02:01:07.359 of money. This movie, I think, oh my god, I 2113 02:01:07.399 --> 02:01:10.199 think it's like the second highest grossing Batman movie ever made. 2114 02:01:10.279 --> 02:01:13.439 It made like so much money that again, like you 2115 02:01:13.439 --> 02:01:16.479 would be shocked because it doesn't seem like it would 2116 02:01:16.520 --> 02:01:19.720 be successful given how not great the film is. But 2117 02:01:19.840 --> 02:01:23.840 it still made one point two billion dollars. Effectively, a 2118 02:01:23.960 --> 02:01:27.159 quote really bad movie doesn't make one point two billion dollars, 2119 02:01:27.199 --> 02:01:29.880 even if I'm not a fan of the movie. And again, 2120 02:01:29.960 --> 02:01:32.760 this movie has its problems, but this movie just doesn't 2121 02:01:32.920 --> 02:01:35.560 need to exist other than for the singular purpose of 2122 02:01:35.640 --> 02:01:38.479 making money. Nobody shows up for this franchise the way 2123 02:01:38.479 --> 02:01:40.520 they did in the second movie, So just still make 2124 02:01:40.560 --> 02:01:43.800 another movie. Look, Keith Ledger passed away. It's really sad, 2125 02:01:43.960 --> 02:01:47.279 it's really unfortunate. And that kind of gives you almost 2126 02:01:47.359 --> 02:01:49.800 like an out. They didn't have to make Black Panther three. 2127 02:01:49.960 --> 02:01:52.920 They chose to get or two. I guess get why 2128 02:01:52.960 --> 02:01:56.199 they did, but they didn't have to. You really didn't 2129 02:01:56.199 --> 02:01:57.880 have to make a third movie here. And if you are, 2130 02:01:58.399 --> 02:02:01.399 then bring back Aaron Eckhart. Do something else. At least 2131 02:02:02.119 --> 02:02:03.680 give a little bit more of what you gave in 2132 02:02:03.720 --> 02:02:06.720 the second movie. Don't just go completely all over the 2133 02:02:06.800 --> 02:02:09.960 place once again, pretending like you're not in a superhero 2134 02:02:10.560 --> 02:02:12.239 movie even though you clearly are. 2135 02:02:13.000 --> 02:02:15.000 All Right, guys, we're gonna take a break and play 2136 02:02:15.000 --> 02:02:17.520 a preview for next week's show right after these brief 2137 02:02:17.560 --> 02:02:20.079 messages benefice Dune bad. 2138 02:02:21.039 --> 02:02:26.279 That's why he said he'd like to begin with him 2139 02:02:26.960 --> 02:02:36.479 with smooth skin with the blank. And it's surprising how 2140 02:02:36.720 --> 02:02:38.399 it's progressed. 2141 02:02:37.840 --> 02:02:44.319 From the hope he will rope enough, he'll be dope 2142 02:02:44.560 --> 02:02:46.720 enough to marry me. 2143 02:02:48.720 --> 02:02:49.880 We'll see. 2144 02:02:52.920 --> 02:02:56.279 We as super playing every now and again. 2145 02:02:56.960 --> 02:02:57.800 You will make it. 2146 02:02:58.239 --> 02:03:08.960 Plain you appreciate the pains were taking making fee, so 2147 02:03:09.439 --> 02:03:14.279 we swear and we stream entertain. 2148 02:03:15.520 --> 02:03:21.239 Mister cath was the first to realize mister Sloane's potential. 2149 02:03:22.720 --> 02:03:27.159 What a smooth skin you have on you, I entertained, 2150 02:03:27.159 --> 02:03:29.520 missus Lang. I'm give him the benefit of your experience. 2151 02:03:30.199 --> 02:03:32.960 But Dad, I wasn't at all keen on entertaining mister Sloane. 2152 02:03:35.800 --> 02:03:38.680 You who told you to take in lodgers, Well I 2153 02:03:38.760 --> 02:03:39.760 needed a bit extra. 2154 02:03:40.640 --> 02:03:42.319 You know what they say about landladies. 2155 02:03:42.760 --> 02:03:44.720 And then ruther Ed saw the light. 2156 02:03:46.159 --> 02:03:49.520 That must have been a rotten life again, been an orphan. 2157 02:03:50.000 --> 02:03:51.239 Don't take any money from him. 2158 02:03:51.239 --> 02:03:51.720 I'll pay. 2159 02:03:52.079 --> 02:03:52.960 It's going to work for me. 2160 02:03:53.640 --> 02:03:54.600 Can I buy a shirt? 2161 02:03:55.800 --> 02:03:56.159 Clothes? 2162 02:03:56.279 --> 02:03:57.800 Making yourself look ridiculous? 2163 02:03:58.520 --> 02:04:02.039 Entertaining mister Sloane became a fiercely competitive struggle. 2164 02:04:02.119 --> 02:04:05.319 Quite imminent about the waist has I expect you've noticed. 2165 02:04:05.479 --> 02:04:08.840 Women are like banks boy breaking an entrance as a 2166 02:04:09.000 --> 02:04:09.840 serious business. 2167 02:04:10.279 --> 02:04:13.640 And mister Sloane, if you take your trousers off with 2168 02:04:13.840 --> 02:04:14.680 me behind. 2169 02:04:14.399 --> 02:04:16.199 Your boy you. 2170 02:04:20.399 --> 02:04:27.159 Mister Sloane had his own ideas of entertainment enter Mister Sloan, 2171 02:04:27.239 --> 02:04:33.800 starring Beryl Reed, Harry andrews, Alan Webb, Peter McHenry as 2172 02:04:33.880 --> 02:04:34.520 mister Sloane. 2173 02:04:35.279 --> 02:04:36.800 I'm going to the place. 2174 02:04:38.239 --> 02:04:39.520 You bring this on yourself, you know. 2175 02:04:45.079 --> 02:04:49.800 So this was also a part of mister Sloan's entertainment er. 2176 02:04:51.479 --> 02:05:03.680 Mister everybody wanted to entertain mister Sloane, and mister Sloan 2177 02:05:03.800 --> 02:05:04.880 is waiting to entertain you. 2178 02:05:07.600 --> 02:05:07.960 That's right. 2179 02:05:08.039 --> 02:05:10.600 We'll be back next week with a look at entertaining 2180 02:05:10.760 --> 02:05:12.960 mister Sloan. Until then, I want to thank my co 2181 02:05:13.079 --> 02:05:15.079 host christ and Spencer. So, Chris, what are you up 2182 02:05:15.119 --> 02:05:15.720 to these days? 2183 02:05:16.840 --> 02:05:20.119 Just working on things over at weirdingwaymedia dot com where 2184 02:05:20.119 --> 02:05:22.720 you and I have a podcast network where our friends 2185 02:05:22.800 --> 02:05:25.159 get to sit and talk about movies and TV, and 2186 02:05:25.199 --> 02:05:28.199 then we also do podcasts about movies and TV and 2187 02:05:28.359 --> 02:05:32.479 other various pop culture things. All that can be found 2188 02:05:32.479 --> 02:05:36.680 at weirdingwaymedia dot com other than our show Ranking on Bond, 2189 02:05:37.079 --> 02:05:39.640 which we do over at patreon dot com slash culturecast 2190 02:05:39.720 --> 02:05:41.880 and patreon dot com slash Projection Booth where we talk 2191 02:05:41.920 --> 02:05:45.560 about James Bond once a month and speaking to Daniel Craig. 2192 02:05:46.039 --> 02:05:49.840 We're charging through the Daniel Craig movies right heading towards 2193 02:05:49.920 --> 02:05:52.000 the end of this whole project. So if that's the 2194 02:05:52.079 --> 02:05:54.439 thing you want to hear because you didn't enjoy enough 2195 02:05:54.680 --> 02:05:57.560 grim dark analysis with this movie, that's where you can 2196 02:05:57.600 --> 02:06:00.560 go and find it and spencer about yourself. 2197 02:06:01.439 --> 02:06:03.920 I'm going to start listening to your cull Shack the 2198 02:06:04.039 --> 02:06:08.439 night Stalker podcast because I've just been rewatching all of 2199 02:06:08.520 --> 02:06:09.039 those and. 2200 02:06:10.680 --> 02:06:13.439 The best TV show ever. I love it. I love 2201 02:06:13.479 --> 02:06:17.840 it so much. I am gearing up to teach an 2202 02:06:17.880 --> 02:06:20.119 intro class at Northwestern. 2203 02:06:21.079 --> 02:06:26.039 Winter and I'm working on the syllabus right now, and 2204 02:06:26.600 --> 02:06:28.399 it's an intro level class I haven't taught in about 2205 02:06:28.439 --> 02:06:32.399 ten years, and prepping for it is kicking my ass 2206 02:06:32.520 --> 02:06:32.840 right now. 2207 02:06:33.000 --> 02:06:34.720 So that's the big thing that I'm up to. 2208 02:06:35.760 --> 02:06:37.640 Thanks again, guys for being on the show. Thanks to 2209 02:06:37.720 --> 02:06:40.119 everybody for listening. Do you want to support physical media 2210 02:06:40.159 --> 02:06:41.960 and get great movies in the mail, head over to 2211 02:06:42.119 --> 02:06:45.039 scarecrow dot com and try Scarecrow Videos incredible rent by 2212 02:06:45.119 --> 02:06:48.920 mail service, the largest publicly accessible collection in the world. 2213 02:06:49.359 --> 02:06:53.159 You'll find films there entirely unavailable elsewhere. Get what you want, 2214 02:06:53.319 --> 02:06:55.640 when you want it, without the scrolling, and of course 2215 02:06:55.760 --> 02:06:58.239 they have the Dark Knight Rises. If you want to 2216 02:06:58.279 --> 02:07:00.039 hear more of me shooting off my mouth check, I 2217 02:07:00.039 --> 02:07:01.239 got some of the other shows that I work on. 2218 02:07:01.399 --> 02:07:04.760 They are also available over at Wadingmamedia dot com. Thanks 2219 02:07:04.920 --> 02:07:06.399 especially to our Patreon community. 2220 02:07:06.520 --> 02:07:07.039 If you want to. 2221 02:07:07.039 --> 02:07:09.840 Join the community, visit patreon dot com slash Projection Booth. 2222 02:07:10.119 --> 02:07:12.720 Every donation we get helps the Projection Booth take over 2223 02:07:12.800 --> 02:07:13.159 the world. 2224 02:07:15.720 --> 02:07:20.960 That's great, Gotham, How are your feet to the lyrical 2225 02:07:21.119 --> 02:07:26.680 flow of faith? I braid, Yes, that's my name. You 2226 02:07:26.800 --> 02:07:30.279 hear the name Ben. I guarantee the bad I'm coming 2227 02:07:30.359 --> 02:07:30.720 after you. 2228 02:07:31.000 --> 02:07:35.600 Bruce White, I'm stronger Smart Kennedy and said, I'm braid 2229 02:07:35.920 --> 02:07:40.000 that's my name? Was Wade in the the same I 2230 02:07:40.079 --> 02:07:43.039 broke his back dot combat Smart, Then I crack my 2231 02:07:43.119 --> 02:07:47.479 twenty brook champd oh likes hip hop. 2232 02:07:49.760 --> 02:07:56.439 I had Gotham City was all right, I'm made, Yes, 2233 02:07:56.880 --> 02:07:59.720 it's a shape and declare us alone. You all come 2234 02:08:00.520 --> 02:08:00.920 I laugh. 2235 02:08:01.039 --> 02:08:03.800 When you ask why I wear the marsh, I'll explain 2236 02:08:03.840 --> 02:08:06.239 it's because I'm paid. 2237 02:08:06.640 --> 02:08:09.439 Yes, that's my name. You saying it to watch the 2238 02:08:09.520 --> 02:08:11.680 name becomes the name, of course. 2239 02:08:11.720 --> 02:08:14.640 Something I plancks gain if you say it to my face. 2240 02:08:14.720 --> 02:08:15.880 Old pressure lad. 2241 02:08:16.239 --> 02:08:18.920 When I say no, you say survivals. 2242 02:08:19.039 --> 02:08:20.319 No No. 2243 02:08:21.560 --> 02:08:25.479 When I say no, you say it the vibon no no, 2244 02:08:26.479 --> 02:08:47.359 I breathe, breathe bad. Stop the music.