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Name something that's not boring. 35 00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:41.719 Laundry, a book club, computer solitaire. 36 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:46.640 Huh oh, Sorry, we were looking for chumbuck casino. 37 00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:48.879 Chum. 38 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:51.799 That's right, chumbucasino dot com as over one hundred casino 39 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:54.159 style games joined today and playing for free for your 40 00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:59.400 chance to redeem some serious prizes. Chum, chumbucasino dot com 41 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:00.840 process quickly. 42 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:02.640 Whatever retails. 43 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:15.680 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 44 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:18.800 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 45 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:26.439 written about them Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every week, 46 00:02:26.599 --> 00:02:30.439 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 47 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:34.520 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 48 00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:37.400 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 49 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:51.800 Good Evening, New York Times bestselling author Michael Fleeman strips 50 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:55.159 away the pleasant veneer of the Silver Lakes neighborhood in 51 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:59.360 California to tell a shocking story about a headline grabbing crime. 52 00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:06.000 Sabrina Lemon, a vivacious, blonde mother of two and part 53 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:10.639 time sampleger at Costco is Handling handing out free food samples. 54 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:15.000 One day when Inwok's handsome young firefighter Jonathan Hearn, shopping 55 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:19.360 for the station. Their conversation leads to a flirtation that 56 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:23.080 leads to a steamy affair that has them hooking up 57 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:25.680 once and twice a week at her home, his home, 58 00:03:26.319 --> 00:03:30.199 and out in hidden spots in the vast Mojave. Sabrina 59 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:33.280 finds in Jonathan's embrace the love and understanding she lacks 60 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:36.520 at home. To the outside world, husband Robert is a 61 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:39.599 big tattooed, teddy bear of a man, a hard working 62 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:44.280 railroad mechanic. Love by all, this gregarious couple seemed matched 63 00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:48.280 by their love of family, friends, and good times, but 64 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:51.840 the parting had gotten out of control for Sabrina. There 65 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:54.919 was boozing and wife swapping in group sex. Once a 66 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:59.919 turn on, it now left Sabrina feeling debased, dehumanized, spiritually adrift, 67 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:04.159 Robert won't talk about it, consumed by his work, boat, 68 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:09.560 truck and social life with Jonathan's showering Sabrina with poetry, gifts, 69 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:13.400 religious insights, and of course, illicit sex. A devious plan 70 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:17.800 is thatched. One August night, Robert Lemon is found dead 71 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:22.040 of two gunshots in a pool of blood. False leads 72 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:24.839 send police into dead ends until a tip arrives from 73 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:29.480 a most unexpected place for Sabrina. It's a stunning betrayal 74 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:32.600 that hurdles the case back to a perfect little place 75 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:36.920 in the desert. With informants, undercover cops, and wire taps, 76 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:42.279 investigators discover a romance fueled by lies and dangerous fantasies. 77 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:46.199 But are Sabrina and Jonathan merely covering up an affair 78 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:50.120 or are they hiding a conspiracy that led to murder. 79 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:53.759 The book they were featuring this evening is Better Off Dead, 80 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:58.160 a sordid true story of sex, sin and murder, with 81 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:02.839 my special guest, journalist and author Michael Fleeman. Welcome to 82 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:06.040 the program, and thank you very much for a Greenness interview. 83 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:10.879 Michael Fleeman, Well, thank you for having me, Thank you 84 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:17.279 very much, very fascinating story and enjoyed this book immensely. 85 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:21.959 Let's start with how you came to want to write 86 00:05:22.120 --> 00:05:24.360 about this particular case. How did you come to be 87 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:26.319 in a position to write this book Better Off Dead? 88 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:31.120 Well, this was a story that took place on the 89 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:36.040 fringes of the Los Angeles suburban area. And when Robert 90 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:41.360 Lamone was murdered into Hatchipee, California, it made the local 91 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:44.759 news down here. I'm in Los Angeles, and I followed 92 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:47.399 it off and on, and it began as one of 93 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:53.120 those tragic stories. Who done it? Why would this very 94 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:56.399 nice man with a loving wife and a good family 95 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:05.439 be murdered? Developments arrived, it became clear that there was 96 00:06:05.720 --> 00:06:09.120 much much more going on behind the scenes. And I'm 97 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:13.120 always fascinated by stories about places we think we know, 98 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:17.680 you know, the nice little neighborhoods, and the charming communities 99 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:21.199 and the happy families. And when you sort of peel 100 00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:25.519 back those layers, you find all kinds of secrets. And 101 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:28.360 in this case, it all added up to murder. 102 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:36.240 Now you start this story Dahachipie, California and a man 103 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:41.160 named Sean where on Sunday, August seven, twenty fourteen, he 104 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:44.000 writes for an overnight shift. These are twelve hour shifts, 105 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:48.480 and he senses something's wrong right away. Can you tell 106 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:51.319 us set the stage of what happens that day on 107 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:54.600 August seventeenth and what does he discover and set this 108 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:55.959 story in motion. 109 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.240 Sean is a mechanic for the Burlington Northern Santa Fe 110 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:06.680 Railroad and his place of work is a workshop in Tahatchepee, 111 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:11.120 which is in the high desert southern California, about an 112 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:14.759 hour outside of Bakersfield, on the way to the little 113 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:18.920 town of Mahave. It's a very busy stretch of track. 114 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:22.800 Trains that come from the east. This is their sort 115 00:07:22.839 --> 00:07:27.040 of last stretch before they end up in the West 116 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:32.319 and in Bakersfield. And Sean is arriving for his overnight shift, 117 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:35.800 and he's what they call a rapid responder. When the 118 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:38.240 train breaks down, he gets in his truck and he 119 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:40.759 goes out and fixes it, and he is relieving the 120 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:46.160 day shift guy, who is Robert Lamone. And when Sean 121 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:53.079 arrives at the workshop, he sees Robert's truck there. He 122 00:07:53.279 --> 00:08:00.639 sees he sees that little office has been ransacked and 123 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:03.079 as he looks on the other side of the truck, 124 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:07.920 he sees Robert lyin there dead and it looks like 125 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:09.959 there's a loon to his head, And of course Shawn 126 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:14.519 is horrified and terrified, and he calls nine one one. 127 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:20.759 Now you see he calls nine one one and they 128 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:23.920 tell him to maybe he doesn't sure if he's if 129 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:25.759 he's dead or not, so they say maybe try some 130 00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:29.120 CPR and then they tell him to get out of 131 00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:33.679 the building. So now so, now the police arrive. What 132 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:38.320 you talk about current County Senior Department Deputy Marcus Moncur 133 00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:42.840 arrives first. Or what do they find in their cursory 134 00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:47.799 investigation right at the garage? What can they deduce immediately 135 00:08:47.879 --> 00:08:48.559 or not deduce? 136 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:54.679 They look inside the garage and they see some of 137 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:57.440 the same stuff that Shaun Waer saw the coworkers saw. 138 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:00.600 They see this little office has been rand and sacked. 139 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:03.200 It looks like somebody has gone through the gone through 140 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:08.919 the drawers. Computer is missing. They then see the body 141 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:11.720 on the ground. It's it's lying next to the front 142 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:17.279 wheel of the work truck. They see some kind of 143 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:19.519 a wound to the head. It could be a gunshot, 144 00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:23.000 it could be a blow to the head. As they 145 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:29.360 search more, they see some footprints behind the building in 146 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:33.240 the in the dirt, and as they get a search 147 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:40.360 warrant and look inside the garage, they find a bullet 148 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:46.039 shell slug rather that looks like it hit the ceiling 149 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:49.559 lamp and then fallen down onto the ground. And finally 150 00:09:49.639 --> 00:09:53.000 they find some blood under the body, and they find 151 00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:57.919 some blood spatter behind the body on a little refrigerator. 152 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:04.679 Now, you talk about a detective Meyer introduced this central 153 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:09.559 figure in this book from Bakersfield from a detective Meyer. 154 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:12.159 But you also say that they look at this what 155 00:10:12.279 --> 00:10:16.200 looks like a burglary with some suspicion, don't they. 156 00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:20.720 Yeah. They One of the other cops who arrived is 157 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:25.240 a veteran robbery detective, and it just it appeared to 158 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:31.200 him that the ransacking of the office was staged. He 159 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:34.720 had no real evidence of that, only just kind of 160 00:10:34.759 --> 00:10:39.159 a gut feeling. Just looked kind of haphazard. It looked 161 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.039 like they were trying to make it they or the 162 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:46.519 singular person, was trying to make it look like a 163 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:51.039 burglary that ended a murder. And he had his suspicions 164 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:54.960 right off the bat. 165 00:10:55.919 --> 00:10:58.279 Now when they talked to Sean, where they're just getting 166 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:01.399 a sort of an indication, and because they know this 167 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:04.000 is the crime scene and it's a workplace, and they 168 00:11:04.039 --> 00:11:10.120 asked him that if Robert usually worked in to Hatchepee, 169 00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:13.600 and so he tells them that not necessarily. So how 170 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:17.039 do they get around to in short order finding out 171 00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:19.480 who he is and where his wife is and speaking 172 00:11:19.480 --> 00:11:22.840 to her? So what's the process that they go after 173 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:26.919 speaking to Sean and gaining just some basic information about 174 00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:31.799 Robert's whereabouts? Likely and why? Tell us how they proceed? 175 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:35.120 Sure, Sean has a little bit of information. Robert actually 176 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:38.159 is not the normal day shift guy there. He was 177 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:44.000 filling in for somebody else, and he normally worked two 178 00:11:44.039 --> 00:11:47.440 hours away in a town called Barstow, and so it 179 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:49.000 was sort of a last minute thing that he was 180 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:53.159 even there, Which is the first sort of twist. If 181 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:57.320 Robert was targeted in this, you know, it had to 182 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:01.519 be somebody who knew his schedule because he wasn't normally there, 183 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:04.799 or if it was random, it would have been random. 184 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:05.279 You know. 185 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:08.120 Sean tells them what little he knows. They're not close friends, 186 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:09.960 but he tells them, you know, he's a nice guy. 187 00:12:10.039 --> 00:12:13.840 Everybody likes Robert. He has no drug problem that he 188 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:17.840 knew of no financial problems and and and seemed very 189 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:22.600 happily married and had a couple of kids. So they 190 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:25.360 get this sort of brief biologic uh, this sort of 191 00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:29.919 brief background on Robert. Uh. They also find his cell 192 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:33.279 phone in the office, and on the cell phone are 193 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:38.159 these frantic uh text messages from his wife, you know, 194 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:41.080 when he coming home or worried about you. And and 195 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:46.639 that's how they ultimately are able to find his wife. 196 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:54.120 Now there's Sabrina, Robert, Robert's wife, and her sister. So 197 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:59.039 how does Sabrina find out about this? And when do 198 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:01.360 police first talk to her? And what does her reaction 199 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:02.279 tell us about that? 200 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:06.519 Well, Sabrina is at home now. Robert lives, oh gosh, 201 00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:10.879 about a two hour drive away from the crime scene. 202 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:14.720 You know, part of this book is having to understand 203 00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:18.039 the vast nature of the landscape here. This is all 204 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:22.360 one county, current county, but it's it's about the size 205 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:26.159 of Connecticut, you know. It's it's a big, wide open 206 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:31.080 space and there's not much in between things. So Robert, 207 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:34.440 you know, he drove a couple of hours to get 208 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:37.600 They lives in a high desert town called Silver Lakes. 209 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:41.360 It's a development and it's about two hours north of 210 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:46.960 Los Angeles, and so Sabrina is at home. This was 211 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:49.759 a Sunday. She's getting her kids ready. They have two 212 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:51.759 young kids, a son and a daughter, and she's getting 213 00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:54.960 them ready for school. The next day, they go to 214 00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:59.440 church and near the end of the day she's calling 215 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:02.559 and texting Robert. She talked to him briefly that day 216 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:05.039 when he was out on a call fixing a train, 217 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:08.000 and you know, she then he didn't call back, and 218 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:10.320 normally he calls from the road on his way home, 219 00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:13.320 and she started texting and saying, you know, we're worried 220 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:18.799 about you. And you know, she's becoming increasingly frantic. According 221 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:23.480 to her family, friends come over, sister comes over to 222 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:26.080 the house to kind of comfort her. She tries to 223 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:28.480 put the kids to bed, but you know, that doesn't work. 224 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:32.039 And finally some people from the railroad, a couple of 225 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:36.320 supervisors from the railroad come by, and they're the ones 226 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:40.480 who inform her that her husband is dead. And they 227 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:42.759 don't tell her what the cause is. She gets the 228 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:48.639 impression it's an accident, some kind of a horrible accident, 229 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:52.240 but she's really left in the dark. And it's not 230 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:56.799 until about one o'clock in the morning. This all happened 231 00:14:56.799 --> 00:15:00.039 around five six seven, one o'clock in the morning. I 232 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:04.159 mean that the coroner calls her and says, yeah, your 233 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:08.600 your husband's been killed. And then shortly ifact she's literally 234 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:11.159 on the phone with a coroner when the detective, Detective 235 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:14.559 Meyer calls her and he tells her he's a homicide 236 00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:18.000 detective and starts answer asking her pointed questions and and 237 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:21.240 that's when she finds out that it appears her husband's 238 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:21.799 been murdered. 239 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:31.080 What was her demeanor as reported by Detective Meyer in 240 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:34.240 response to that news, Well, Meyer. 241 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:36.240 Actually recorded the phone call so we could all hear 242 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:42.679 her demeanor, and she sounded tired and confused and frantic. 243 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:48.480 She was trying to answer the detective's questions. There seem 244 00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:50.240 to be a lot going on at the house in 245 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:53.519 the background. You know, she kept saying, what happened, what 246 00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:58.559 happened to my husband? So her reaction, you know, to 247 00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:02.759 my mind and and definitely to detective Myers, was very appropriate. 248 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:13.039 Now, the the railroad is basically quite good, and there's 249 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:21.039 an insurance policy, but how do police respond to this crime? 250 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:24.279 And obviously they know they have to speak to the 251 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:29.639 people involved. So when do police first speak with Sabrina. 252 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:33.000 Well, they talked to Detective Meyer talks to her on 253 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:35.360 the phone that night at one o'clock in the morning. 254 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:38.240 It's a very short phone call, about fifteen minutes, and 255 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:42.039 you know, they just get the basic information about his schedule, 256 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:43.840 the sort of the things we just went over, you know, 257 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:46.679 was at his normal schedule? Where was he normally based? 258 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:51.159 Meyer asked, you know, one of these awkward routine questions, 259 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:53.639 but you know, do you have any problems in your marriage? 260 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:57.440 And she says no, no, no, does he have any enemies? No, everybody, 261 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:03.320 everybody loved Robert. It was a brief conversation and you know, 262 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:06.000 Meyer just said, okay, here's my number. Call me. You know, 263 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:10.079 we'll up later at a better time and do this 264 00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:15.960 in person. Meanwhile, police look into Robert's background that they 265 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.599 look into his schedule, they talk to his you know, 266 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:22.359 a number of his coworkers, and they're trying to find 267 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:26.039 out it doesn't look like, aside from a laptop being missing, 268 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:29.359 anything much has been stolen. There's not much there anyway. 269 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:33.200 There's these big wrenches and things that used to fix trains, 270 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:37.039 but no money is missing. There would be no money 271 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:40.519 there to be missing. And all the friends and co 272 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.920 workers of Robert, to a man describe him as a 273 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:49.480 very very nice, friendly guy, you know, always a smile 274 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:54.880 on his face, happy at work, happy in his marriage, 275 00:17:55.279 --> 00:18:00.559 and they're really perplexed as to what happened. The railroad 276 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:04.920 also has its own little police department, and they are 277 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:09.400 conducting an investigation and coordination with the sheriff's department. And 278 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:13.680 Robert not only had life insurance, but you know, there's 279 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:17.400 a million to two million dollars settlement that is likely 280 00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:21.079 in the event that the railroads somehow at faults and 281 00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.160 his death. So they take this very seriously and they 282 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:29.799 they issue a big reward, you know, for any information 283 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:36.039 leading leading to why he was killed. But you know, 284 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:40.160 the early part of the investigation turns up a lot 285 00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:43.960 of zeros until they go into the office of the 286 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:48.160 manager of the industrial park with this workshop is based 287 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:50.480 and they ask me, you know, do you have any 288 00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:55.720 security footage around the grounds? And they say yes, and 289 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.960 they review that security footage and they get their first 290 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:01.039 lead in the case. 291 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:07.839 Now, what is that first lead that they get? What 292 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:10.680 do they see? What can they doce from there? And 293 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:13.559 how do they go from that image that they get 294 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:17.799 from one of the surveillance cameras, so it's a camera. 295 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:21.119 There's cameras all over the facility, but this one's posted 296 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:24.960 right near the entrance, and it's in the direction in 297 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:27.279 the direction of where this workshop is, which is near 298 00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:31.160 the back of the facility. And what they see at 299 00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:34.880 about five o'clock PM, which is, you know, roughly the 300 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.960 time that Robert might have been killed. Sean Waer arrives 301 00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:44.920 about six thirty quarter seven. They see a person walking 302 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:49.519 with a limp kind of in the direction of the 303 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:54.960 murder scene. It's grainy, the person is far away, looks 304 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:59.720 kind of bulky, probably is a man. But they see 305 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:04.440 this person walking in the direction of the workshop, and 306 00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:08.799 this gives police and the railroad is something they can 307 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:11.519 release to the public, which they do very quickly. The 308 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:15.440 next couple of days they release this footage of this 309 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:20.119 limping person who is their person of interest. 310 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:26.200 You will also talk about a secret witness program where 311 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:30.160 anonymous tip line and they're waiting for leeds as well. 312 00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:34.000 And then you talk about the doctor Robert Whitmore, the 313 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:38.559 forensic pathologist, and his deductions. After his examination. 314 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:43.799 What they find is the well, as they're as they're 315 00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:47.839 getting tips from the release of this video, they conduct 316 00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:56.039 the autopsy doctor Whitmore, and it's a rather unusual, uh, 317 00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:01.480 rather unusual findings. He confirms that Robert Lemone was shot 318 00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:07.680 to death large caliber forty four forty five. The bullets 319 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:13.039 traveled in kind of an upward trajectory, almost like the 320 00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:19.279 person was on the ground shooting up toward Robert, who 321 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:23.200 was kind of one. The bullets traveled to different parts 322 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:27.599 of his body, won the final worst one to ended 323 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:29.839 up in his brain, and they were able to take 324 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:32.559 the slug out. But both of the shots would have 325 00:21:32.599 --> 00:21:37.240 been fatal, and they were shot at very very close range, 326 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:42.039 maybe even point blank. So you know, this tells the 327 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:46.720 police that perhaps the killer is somebody Robert knew, or 328 00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:52.559 somebody he allowed to get close to him, or the 329 00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:56.880 killer somehow snuck up by crawling and then shot upwards. 330 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:01.119 But the going theory is that this might be somebody 331 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:04.839 he knew or suspected he knew. And you combine that 332 00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:10.000 with the fact that the killer, if Robert himself was targeted, 333 00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:14.480 had to have known as schedule, suggests that this might 334 00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:20.960 be somebody with a personal motive to kill Robert and 335 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:23.759 so that's what they gleaned from the autopsy. 336 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:30.640 Now you talk about detective Myers arise from Bakerfield, Bakersfield 337 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:32.880 one hundred and twenty five miles away to Silver Lakes, 338 00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:38.240 this little suburb, little community, and there are thirty people 339 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:41.240 at this home. So tell us what he encounters and 340 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:45.799 experiences with thirty people friends and relatives gathered around Sabrina 341 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:47.440 at the home. 342 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:52.039 Sure, this is about three or four days after the murder, 343 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.720 and he had done the quickie phone interview, and Meyer 344 00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:59.480 and his partner now are going to do it an 345 00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:06.240 in person an interview with Sabrina. And the county seat 346 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:10.200 of Kerrent County is in Bakersfield, and the Silver Lakes 347 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:13.440 is way across the desert. Go up a mountain and 348 00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:18.880 down a mountain, and all the way across here's the 349 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:20.880 Air Force base with a space Shuttle land. I mean, 350 00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:22.960 this is like way out in the middle of nowhere, 351 00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:26.119 and he's driving, driving, driving, driving for hours and they 352 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.680 come across Silver Lakes. Now, this is a very unusual 353 00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:35.319 community in southern California. You know, once you get out 354 00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:38.240 of La and you're headed toward Las Vegas, it's all 355 00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:42.319 desert and if you turn off the freeway and you 356 00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:44.920 go thirty or forty miles off the freeway on the 357 00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:48.759 way the Las Vegas, you end up in this town 358 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.519 of Silver Lakes, and it's as if somebody had plopped 359 00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:57.079 a little planned community in the middle of the desert. 360 00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:03.160 Is charming, little, you know, kind of neighborhood, family, neighborhood. 361 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:06.960 There's a golf course, there's two lakes, and people go boating, 362 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:10.640 and there's good schools and you know, a little shopping village, 363 00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:14.119 and it's it's kind of a surreal scene, this development. 364 00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:20.039 And Meyer and his partner drive up and they drive 365 00:24:20.119 --> 00:24:23.279 up to the lamoone house and it's very nice house. Again, 366 00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:25.319 it's it's near a golf course, it's near the lake, 367 00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:28.960 it's across the street from the elementary school. And they 368 00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:31.000 get there and the house is just full of people 369 00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:35.240 and these are friends and family and they're all there, 370 00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:41.839 presumably to support Sabrina during this difficult time. And so 371 00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:45.519 Meyer's handing out business cards and no one seems to 372 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:47.920 know anything other than Robert's a nice guy. And they're 373 00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:53.000 very happily married. And they go off into they go 374 00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:56.440 off into a quieter bedroom, and this is when the 375 00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:59.599 first sort of real interview takes place. 376 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:07.880 She is asked about the marriage. She's asked about infidelity, 377 00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:12.039 but she talks about as a common may maybe even 378 00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:17.279 lets it slip about talking about partying. And then he 379 00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:22.240 notes her demeanor and makes a conclusion. Tell us about 380 00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:24.960 some of these questions and what he concludes afterwards. 381 00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:29.000 Right, well, the question has become more pointed now, you know, 382 00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.160 it's been a few days. The shock, while still real, 383 00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:37.359 is not immediate, and it's it's just routine questioning. And 384 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:38.960 I asked myer, I said, you know, why did you 385 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:43.400 ask these questions? Say, we ask everybody what's what's going on? 386 00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:46.799 And if a husband dies, they ask the wife. You know, 387 00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:50.279 are there any problems in the relationship? And she said no, no, 388 00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:55.160 we have a very happy, happy marriage. You know, any 389 00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:59.000 infidelity And she said no, no, nothing that I know about. 390 00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:02.720 And then she kind of back pedals a little bit. 391 00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:05.119 She said, but you know, we do we do like 392 00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:07.480 to party, you know, we like to have a good time. 393 00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:10.480 You know, we like to have a few drinks and 394 00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:12.359 and make some noise. You know, this is the Silver 395 00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:15.359 Lakes is a is a resort kind of community. There's 396 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:19.440 a there's a lake with powerboats on it, and there's golf, 397 00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:23.599 and you know, it's a fun place to live. And 398 00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:28.039 so you know, uh, Myers is a little, a little 399 00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:31.200 not suspicious, but he's taking note. It was the first 400 00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:34.279 sort of crack in the demeanor. And and and. 401 00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:38.640