Speaker 1: Welcome back, boys and girls. I've brought Paul Haul back
for y'all. Welcome Paul. How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm good, Jamie, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: I'm excited because today we're going to do our classic
Disney series that we've been doing for a couple years now.
You said this was our tenth show together. Is that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And I I was looking up the movies we
did the other day. We have done Princess Protection Program,
Escape from Tomorrow, Fantasia, No Mobile, Escape to Witch Mountain,
Elemental Haunted Mansion, Princess and the Frog, The Devil and
Max Devlin, Monsters, inc. Black Caldron, Song of the South, Tomorrowland,
Mary Poppins, Mars Needs Moms Turning Red, And now we're
doing Pinocchio and Hunchback of Notre Dame.
Speaker 1: Wow, almost twenty movies. That's crazy. So this is the
perfect climax who are Disney series? Because then we're gonna
pivot off into some other topics that I know you
guys are gonna love. But today we are gonna be
talking about Pinocchio, the classic nineteen forty Disney movie. Now,
I was watching this and I was going, why is
this so deep? Do I have mental problems. Like, there's
so much going on in Pinocchio, and I'm so glad
you picked it because it is more than just a
kids movie, a Disney movie. It is literally a manifesto
of occult secrets, right, and just the things that I
picked up just from watching and knowing what I already
knew about it was the story is Luciferian, it's gnostic,
it's Masonic, it's cabitalistic. It's like the story of creation
and the fall of man. And it's also mk ultra.
So we are going to be going over all of
the different facet of Pinocchio. So where do you want
to start on this movie?
Speaker 2: Maybe just a couple notes on the Pinocchio story. And
for the record, we were having Mike problems, So forgive
me everybody if we have weird cut off stuff going on. Apologies.
So Coppola, Felini, Kubrick, Walt Disney, del Toro, Robert Zemeckis.
Pinocchio is one of those films or those prop properties,
you know, stories that everybody wants to like get their
hands on. The Copola, Fellini, and Kubrick all basically either
had massive financial setbacks or death that caused them not
to do this, and then oh, yeah, Spielberg, because he
finished Ai.
Speaker 1: Wanted to do Pinocchio too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was originally doing AI and then Steven
Spielber basically picked it up and finished it. But yeah,
that was like his Pinocchio.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're going to talk about that because that's
where it gets into to the Luciferianism of the story
of Pinocchio. So, like a lot of these fairy tales,
Grimm's Fairy Tales and Hans Christian Anderson and the subject
matter that Disney pulled from in its classic eras, this
actually comes from a children's story by a author named
Carlo Clodi who was an Italian and his real name
was Carlo Larenzini. So he was a theological student who
turned to politics and journalism during the Italian Wars for Independence.
So this was around like eighteen fifty eighteen sixty, and
he had some strong political opinions and cultural visions for Italy.
Speaker 2: Right would you say was he was he more like
left leaning or right leaning?
Speaker 1: You know, well, we're gonna find out in a second.
He was an Enlightenment era you know, kind of like Freemason,
revolutionary he pivoted from print media to children's stories, using
characters as a means of expressing his own convictions through allegory. Right,
and so what ideas do you think he is bringing
to light?
Speaker 2: Well, some enlightenment, fellow, I'm guessing it's gonna have something
to do with some will to power of some kind,
some sort of dominating over nature conquests the reclamation. There
will also be sort of the implication that nature knows
more than man. Like on one level, there's the sort
of what subdue nature, but there's the other like back
to nature, sort of inherent romanticism that comes with enlightenment too.
So I think there'll be a bit of that. And
I think just because we know these things go, there'll
probably be some uh well transformation transformational human into the
light type of you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, from from darkness to light. Basically, that is a
enlightenment Masonic pabilistic idea. And I was going to read
y'all a little bit about gnosticism, but first I wanted
to show you this is like a Masonic image right here,
from Darkness to Light? You have all those This is
from my second book.
Speaker 2: Did you do that image or where'd you find that this.
Speaker 1: Is just like a classic Masonic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, put it, put it back up again, please,
It's just a terrible composition, like the eyeball and the
g and the thing.
Speaker 2: They're just like, the building is just so ugly. Dude,
It's like they got at it is weird.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, Masonic aesthetic is not actually my favorite. No
oh no, no really, well, I do love the Gothic,
which we're going to talk about next week when we
do Hunchbacks. So it's so funny when me and Paul
pick movies. We're like, let's pick a couple movies, but
we always end up talking for hours and hours. So
I'm like, let's just do one movie at a time.
Speaker 2: No, last time I was looking back on these movies,
we're done there. Can you imagine there's a point where
we did four movies in one session?
Speaker 1: No, was that like three and a half hour?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. So we're learning. I'm learning, Okio.
Speaker 1: So Pinocchio might turn into three hours. You don't know,
because I have so many notes and I have like
all of this, you know, esoteric stuff to tell y'all.
But okay, so now we are at the author of
the Well. It started as a story like a serial
in his publication. And so here we have this author
who went from theological school to revolutionary thinking, Enlightenment thinking
into journalism, and he started publishing this serial in eighteen
eighty called The Story of a Marionette, which became the
Adventures of Pinocchio in eighteen eighty three. So according to
the Internet or Ai or Grocco, whoever is our you know, oracle, now,
Carlo Lorenzini was confirmed of freemason, so he was initiated
into these Enlightenment era ideas. And this is smack dab
in the middle of like the blossoming of the seventeen
seventy six era. So you have George Washington in the
New World and the ideas of Francis Bacon, and then
these ideas are spreading. Also you have the French Revolution
going on at the same time, stuff spreading into Italy
and Pinocchio, I guess it's from like northern Italy, so
like Italian Alps era. So you have the revolutionary spirit
coming down into Italy and this is where Pinocchio comes from.
Did you know that it was going to be so
deep today?
Speaker 2: No? And it's funny. I also watched that Girmo del
Toro one, and that one plays a lot into like
overtly dealing with more political but kind of like the
fascism basically comes to town. And so it's kind of
funny that, you know, kind of they actually have Mussolini
and stuff, but just like you were saying about it
creeping through the north end of the South, it's funny
that the new Pinocchio movie kind of has that too
in a different ways. So it's even somatic stuff. Spiritually
and politically they're bedfellows.
Speaker 1: Did you ever see pans Labyrinth by a Gara MULTIAI?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I like del Toro. He
I think I saw a show you did on it,
or maybe you and.
Speaker 1: Jay did, or me and basically analyzer pants.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, you guys said right, forgive me, forgive me? Yeah, no,
I was good. I don't like yup, So I gotta
blogs all up in here. I gotta I don't like
Gimo del Toro. Man, he's like I mean, it's just
personal preference, I guess, but he's so eerie and creepy
and weird.
Speaker 1: And he is eerie and creepy. Yeah, his I've seen
pictures of like I think his house is kind of
creepy too, So that's where you get horror movies from.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like people's obsession with the monster. It's such
a new things and ever since Frankenstein over the last
century in our culture, and it's like we've gotten to
the point now where it's like, whether you go on
art blogs or watch some TV shows, it's always like
me and my cute monster, you know. And it's like
I always kicked out of people when they I'm gonna
kill these flies. Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1: Well, I was just gonna say Pokemon is like short
for pocket monster, so.
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, Like there's a sense that we've just become
so close to befriending the monster, and I think it's
kind of funny. Occult move is like, no, the monster
is your shadow, that's your friend. You can become friends
with the monster, and eventually he'll become tame, surely not
eat you and send you down the bows of Hades alive,
but he guys will become best friends.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, and Pinocchio, the monster is very important to Geppetto's
you know, katabasis or abyss crossing, and we'll get to
that in a minute. When we talk about how this
is capitalistic, but so yeah, So Carl Larnzini was a
political satirist and his publications even got banned in some
places for being too spicy. He was very revolutionary. One
of his publications called the Veacon, which illuminated all who
were teetering in darkness. So that sounds exactly like that
picture that we were just looking at, right, the Masonic
from light to darkness or darkness to light. I'm sorry.
And he also considered himself a passionate disciple of Giuseppe Mazzini.
Now is that a name that you have heard of before?
I'm not okay. So he is another one of these
free Masonic Enlightenment era friends with General Albert Pike of
the Civil War. So they were pentpals. And there is
a classic like conspiracy letter that goes around every couple
of years, and this has kind of like been debunked
and then like undebunked, So it's just one of those
things that it could be true. There is a letter
written from Mazzini to Albert Pike that pretty much detailed
the three World Wars in spooky detail.
Speaker 2: So have we gotten in his or were still writing
on number three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well they said in that letter that World War
III was going to be fought between the Zionists and
the Islamist and they will destroy each other and then
the divine light of Lucifer will prevail. So that's a
classic conspiracy letter from Yeah Mazzini to Albert Pike. And
like I said, it was disputed, but it's you know,
outlines three world wars and how they were fomented. And
so Pinocchio is like in classic you know, mystery school fashion.
It's just a little tale for children, but it's more
of a paarable if you know what you are looking at,
if you are an initiate, then you see the signs.
So did you see anything, Well, yeah, this.
Speaker 2: Is yeah, of course I did. This is gonna be fun, though,
and this is where like I'm kinda let's play a
good cop back coop today, Okay, because I'm out of
I gotta out myself. I mean, it's no surprise to
anybody who been doing this for two years, have a
funny conflicted relationship with this Disney stuff. The last six
months since our last show, my buddy and I have
gotten tighter out here at the Icon Studio and he's like,
never really watched these movies, and so we watch We've
been watching a lot of them, the classics, and it's
like it's like watching it with the child, the joy
he's had watching the art of these films, and so
I'm like, dude, this sucks because it's like these things
are beautiful, like these are amazing pieces of art, and
so like there's a part of me that like esthetically
just like can chomp on that all day long, you know,
But it's like like ice cream, It's like there's only
so much substance it actually has in terms of like
speeding your soul. You can't like feed your soul on
Disney stuff forever without going crazy. But so I've been like, one,
it really dig in these movies in a way that
I was like, I admit him, like almost unbased or
I'm like, I think these are really good, you know.
And uh. And then with that is I watched in
preparation for this, I rewatched all of Jordan Peterson's Pinocchio
stuff because I was going to ask, oh yeah, oh yeah,
I mean back in the day I used to you know,
we all roll JBP at some point, Like, so I
watched it back, and I was just like I kind
of had this like crisis, not really a crisis, but
like I was kind of like, well, I don't want
to just do what he did in terms of like,
oh this Dren's there, so this represents that. It's like
sometimes a dude just hugging a fish is like hugging
a fish, like maybe that's all it is. And so
I was like wondering, like how do I how do
I interpret this film about just sounding like rehash of
because like j He's got pretty good, like a lot
of symbolism he has is like pretty spot on, but uh,
I So I was trying to find just to kind
of wrap it up, I'm trying to find a Christian
something in this that's not purely esoteric. Like I was
trying to actually find like where's good and true in
this movie because I think it's just this side effect
of living where I am now, Like I'm just so
there's so much joy and grace everywhere. It's like I
can't not try to see Christ in it, you know.
And so I would say, like this is why I'm
so excited to hear what you want to say about
all this, because like I've not really, I'm intentionally withheld
doing much research on Pinocchio, and I've kind of like
avoided doing the more occult reading because I was one
figured you could too. I just like I realized, like
I don't think, I like my brain can't. I can't
do it anymore, Like I don't know how to see it.
Like I'm only like, oh, look at that's like Jesus
and he's like this, but there's so many things in
there that are not obviously Christian. You gotta like stretch.
So the last thing I say is like being Christians,
like we sort of have the market cornered on truth,
So anything that has truth in it, I'm going to
try to like find something good in it. And so
it's like I don't know, so I've been I don't
really know where I rest with all this stuff now
truth be told, because it's like I'm trying to see
things with a more pure eyes of love towards everything.
But at the same time, I don't want to just
be stupid, you know, and like I'm willfully not tough anymore,
you know. So it's like I'm excited just to kind of,
I don't know, look at this thing from every angle
we can.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm thinking of that versus says to the peer
of hoar, all things are peer, you know.
Speaker 2: And I'm not pure that life to be one day.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously a child is not going to watch
this and like get all of the occult references, but
they are sort of being manipulated, you know, subliminally and ideologically.
So it's a very it's so tough, like try it.
Talian Christians don't take their kids to Disneylan like you
can't because they're gonna.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, And so it's like, in a way, I'm
full sirt of the word we've always been, like, especially
when we get to like once Disneyland starts being made
and it sort of becomes this like mecha zone. Once
you get in like Disney Adulting the last fifty years
or whatever twenty years, it's like it's weird for sure. Yeah,
those early movies. It's like I just don't know what
to make of it, because, like I truly do believe
everything I've said before that like the powers are working
from on high to work through our media, and they
obviously own Hollywood, Like it's like blatantly clear. But then
it's like watching all the behind the scenes and studying
all the art. I'm like, how did these guys have
time to go to like devil parties? Like these dudes
were like in this studio, like eighty hours a day working, Like,
so where does this.
Speaker 1: Devil parties are for elite? They're not for ankers and
artists right there for right, right? But speaking of devil parties,
that's where this movie is going because he's gonna end
up literally on pleasure Island.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: So let's start with the gnostic aspects. So you're how
is this gnostic?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: Uh, We're about to demystify some things for you. So
Geppetto is what they would call the demi urge, right,
and here is the what I'm going to be referencing.
So this book is still for sale if y'all are interested.
I just go over the bigger mystery cults of the conspiracy,
the Cabal, we go through Fumason, we go through illuminated America,
we go through uh Solomon, and gnosticism. So if you've
ever looked at all of the evil and all of
the suffering and all of the decay in the world,
you know, and thought like this is hell, then that
is a Gnostic idea.
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, because go ahead, Oh, because creation and the
nascissism is inherently contrary to man's need to ascend forever
where versus the Christian one where God makes creation good.
Speaker 2: So fundamentally this world and that's like that thing with
the Gnostics, you know, to be charitable, not to the gnostics,
but those that don't know any better. I too, as
a Christian, see this world as gone to hell, but
not creation, not the animals, not mankind, but the system,
the machine, you know, so to speak. So like kind
of like we always agree that, like we're in a
falling condition, but it's like why is hell and the mean?
And how we transfigure that as an entirely different opera.
Speaker 1: Right, So, on the one hand, you have creationism. In Christianity,
matter is good, everything created is good because God is good.
In narcissism, God or the creator or the architect of
freemasonry that built the world is bad and there's something
there is good stuff here, but fundamentally matter and creation
is flawed. So there you have your first principles from creation,
then the Christian point of view and the Gnostic point
of view. So gnarscissism just means gnosis right or knowing,
And how did they know this? They just knew it,
Like there's narcissism is a very amorphous kind of blobby thing,
like the Gospels are kind of disputed, and you know
the Nakammodish where a lot of this comes from namod.
Speaker 2: Ways, Yeah, that's that's tough. This is this thing that
I've learned coming in the church. Like it's like this,
this is how it is for us with other Christians,
and this is how it is for us with even
a lot of occult things. And it's like a lot
of the terms and words are the exact same thing,
but they mean entirely different things, like because we have
this as well, like the fathers use the word all
the time, and you could even say, like I know,
nosis and sophia are entirely one to one, but like
they kind of are in the sense of this wisdom
of God or this wisdom and so even there too,
we'll talk about like crisis sofia in the in scripture,
but it's not what then gets, you.
Speaker 1: Know, nastisized, gnostisized. Yeah, that's a good way to put it,
because in Christianity, you can know God right, you can
know aspects about him, you can learn about him, you
can have In narcissism, you can never know God. God
is this thing that is so far above knowing or
having a relationship or caring about you. It is basically
like a watchmaker or like a geppetto who just made
a creation and wound it up and then it's just
going right. And but you can never know the mind
of God in narcissism, because it's far more above the
thing that created us. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because there's because you're you're saying, there's the
you're talking about the God higher than the demiurge.
Speaker 1: So it's called the play Roma. Okay, So in the
classic Gnostic view, there's a true, ultimate, transcendent God who
is beyond all created universe. It emanated or brought forth
from within itself all of the worlds, and it's simply
called the Numa or the Light. So it's like a
pre existent, un caused, perfect being or they call it
the Father Spirit. Right, let's see.
Speaker 2: And then also, like what you're saying with the narcissism,
it's just a quick move from daism to you know,
setting the watch the clockmakers, setting it to pure just humanism,
and the trajectory just only a matter of centuries, so
to speak.
Speaker 1: Right, So he there's an emphasis on androgyny too, and
then the mother aspect of the light is the prodnoia
or the first thought. Now, this is all compiled by
going through all of these weird NaSTA gospels and getting
it like there is no actual like cohesid story. This
is just what we can gather through all of the
different gospels, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, uncles lavicks Man, I used to be like not
a like I was a half Gnostic in the bag
because I've always loved creation in nature. I'm too much
of like a hippie to not like nature. But that
just transcending it things all about it. And it's like, dude,
this stuff for readson now like a Marvel Wikipedia page.
You're like, you just got the power stone from him
and he fell from Galacton four and just like.
Speaker 1: What and they crossed the bifrosted asgar Okay, so the
light they worship, the ultimate Light. And then the first thought,
Let's see, they brought forth the gods called AONs. So
these beings exist between the Ultimate God and ourselves. The
Nastic view of the universe has three tiers where the
light lives, the upperwhelm and the bottom world or the
created universe. So I don't know if you guys want
to know all of this stuff. Is this interesting or not? Okay,
I'm just going through these notes way in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny with the word aon. I should do
my homework better. Let's see if I can look it
up while we're talking.
Speaker 1: Okay. When when all the AONs are together in harmony
with the light is called the play roma, which means fullness.
The fullness stands in contrast to our existential state, which
is the comparison to emptiness. The Father God and the
Mother Thought make the initial trinity of the Gnostics. There
is an extraordinary aon called Sophia or wisdom. So this
is what is being symbolized by the Blue Fairy when
we get there.
Speaker 2: Yep, he's also the nature spirit or this Sophionic spirit
at the same time. She's like both simultaneously.
Speaker 1: Yes. So Sophia was close to the physical world to
transgress the boundary, and she was the first one to sin.
She wanted to reproduce without the consent of the Light
or her male counterpart aon. Her offspring is described as
an abortion, a flawed emanation called the demiurge or the
maker or the architect. He's also called y'aal the Boes
and to the Gnostics this is yahweh or right right.
So this kind of turns the entire creation story inverted,
where matter is evil and it's it's like a mutant birth. Basically,
it's a target is a birth?
Speaker 2: What the new Pinocchio, the Giamo del toro one sorry
excuse me, I had to go check the screen really quick.
In the Nice and Creed, I can't read Greek very well.
I think the word is aon when it says at
the end of the age to come, it doesn't look
like cop is it cosmos? I don't think it's cosmos.
It looks like the word of aon. So again, it's
one of those weird words that's like we use it
has a context, but it's not. We're not talking about
those AONs of transcending, you know, up to the Pleroma
entirely Christian context. But in the gar del Toro Pinocchio, dude,
he is a freak. That boy he's like he looks
demented and he's like carved when Grandpa was all drunk
and Geppetto is all drunk and angry and like demonically influenced.
And then yeah, I should see there's like these weird
eyeball spirits that like enter into Pinocchio when he's born.
He's like nature spirits thing. It's crazy, but just to
the point of like the deformity birth. It's definitely one
of those things that Disney doesn't do, obviously in comparison
to some other versions of Pinocchio, like the Del Toro especially.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, what we're talking about is Geppetto is the Demiurge,
and Pinocchio is man who was created unperfected, imperfected, and
it is up to him and his will to power
to become that perfect being or the perfect Ashlar was
what they call it in Freemasonry, Right, So I guess
that's enough backstory on narcissism all that to say, Geppetto
is like the demiurge, and the Fox and the Cat
are like the Arkhans or the Watchman or the henchmen
that try to tempt him into going straight, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I would say from a Christian reading, they
sort of represent obviously like the passions or the demons,
because they're basically like telling him, you know this is
at the end, they're telling him he's sick. You know, Pinocchio,
you're sick. You can't go to school, like you need
to come be an actor and stuff, and basically they're
sort of saying, Ah, what's the what's the worry? Why bother?
Or was it after he leaves Strombolian and they get
him again to go to Pleasure Island? Is it the
either way they're basically doing exactly the demons say, or
they're like, why bother, don't worry about it. You're useless,
you're helpless, might as well just go to Pleasure Island.
And it sort of like activates that let's just call it,
screw it neural pathway inside of us that get stronger
and stronger. And that's how it's sort of given to
sin so regularly, is because we sort of have this
I am sick, I am worth this, like life doesn't
care for me? Why bother? Let's just go to Pleasure Island.
Speaker 1: Nihilism, Yeah, right, and is it?
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny because Pleasure Island obviously is like
cut off from the mainland of people of the soul
of existence and sort of when we fall into sin,
we become isolated in that same way that you know
where you go to the eye it, So they visually
represent the isolation involved with falling into sin. That pleasure
island is right.
Speaker 1: So another clue that would tell you that Jeppetto is
the demi urge is all the clocks. So not only
is he a craftsman of puppets, but he's also like
father Time, right, he is the saturn. He is the
one of the great limitations of times. So we're still
talking about gnostic mystery school stuff, but to Petto's how
and this is the one of the scenes that stuck
out to me when I was a little kid too,
because I always remember when the clocks are going off
at the same time and the little drunk comes out,
the spanking mama one, yeah, the spanky mom. And then
I remembered in that Fritz Springmeier book about how Disney
was like obsessed with butts and stuff. We're gonna reference
that very end when we talk about how it's like
MK Ultra. But yeah, like I always remember the little
butt clock and the Wino clock, and that whole.
Speaker 2: Scene is like I remember this movie, Like this movie,
Star Wars and probably Back in the Future were like
the first movies I ever like remember watching, but like,
especially Pinocchio, this movie is like ingrained. I mean, like
I even can hear the whole symphony of clocks, like
right now, like hey, sing to me the clock scene,
and like, dude, like, yeah.
Speaker 1: So he is father time. Oh and it's funny that
all the clocks go off and then he's like what
time is it? So he there's what copedal?
Speaker 2: What is wrong with you? Bro? Like you literally have
twenty five clocks around You're like, oh, what time it is?
I love that.
Speaker 1: Well that's the joke, Like he is the maker, but
he's still not God.
Speaker 2: Ah do brilliant. I love it. I love it. Yeah,
that's great. I didn't even think, like what I was saying.
I can't even see things the way I used to anymore.
Like I didn't even think about Saturn, like I knew
is the demiurge. I was like, look a old man time,
Like that's yeah, duh, obviously good call.
Speaker 1: So he is, you know, the less for God who
creates the imperfect beings or the puppets, and Pinocchio needs
the divine spark to become a real boy or an
illuminated man or a perfect ashlar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, something I found interesting about this imagery that's like,
you know, not very I couldn't really pull the Christian
apologia on this one, because like the Holy Spirit is
a feminine thing, like that's only in the Greek. It's
it's not really the Holy Spirit's not feminine. I mean,
God is spirit. There's no gender to God. But this
was a funny, like, you know, in Christianity, it's the
Father that is the spirit that gives the spirit, and
it's the mother that provides the flesh, where in this
story it's the Father that provides the flesh and the
feminine that provides the spirit. So I thought that wasn't
very telling. You know. Way, the Gnostic sort of symbolism
is versus obviously an Orthodox.
Speaker 1: Reading, so Gnostissism very easily slides into Luciferianism. And I'm
looking up right now when you wish upon a star,
so that's how the movie opens, right about a star.
And what do we talk about all the time in
magic is stars, pentagrams, transmissions from outer space, right, all
of this and I'm trying to see if they actually
say which star they're supposed to be referencing. But you know,
it could be serious, It could be Polaris, it could
be Venus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he says the Wishing Star. I think
you just call it calls that.
Speaker 1: So if I ever come upon like which exactly star
they're talking about, because all of these are esoteric stars,
serious is very I mean, we did a whole show
on it with plant, right, so everybody should know how
important serious is Polaris. The North star is also very
important in free rasonry, and so is Venus, which is
very closely associated with Lucifer. And so when the star
is upside down, well let's okay, let's talk about that
in a second, when the donkeys come. So, the Blue
Fairy is a star, right, She's also Sophia the Gnostic wisdom.
She descends to earth to give Pinocchio this divine spark,
and even the tip of her magic wand is a pentagram, right.
Speaker 4: By.
Speaker 1: No coincidence. And if you are talking about sparks, you
are talking about Kabbala now, and the news of the
Gnostics is so in Kabala they say that every human
is like a shattering of God and it's just like
a tiny little spark that when you mix them all together,
or we bring them together, that is God. But otherwise
we are just like little sparks.
Speaker 2: Does it imply in that that when more people bring
their light together that we can have more Godness?
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, the more you link up like a mecca.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like a like a power anger mechado droid thing.
Speaker 1: Well, the over man when all the sparks come together.
I think it's called Adam.
Speaker 2: Cadmon, right, yeah, I remember him. I remembering to Adam
or in Marvel Comics, Adam Warlock is his name. Oh okay,
it's funny because the Christian again, like the Christian variant,
not the Christian variant. This is a variant on Christianity,
fun housewarping of it. And it's that the image of
God in us is complete in every person. It's not
just like, oh, Jamie, you have the right side of
my image of God. Paul's got the left side. If
we come together, we'll have a full image of God.
Like no, it's not how it works, like the image
of God is a fractal so speed it's full at
every single person. And that's why one saint can hold
the whole world up in his single spark, rather than
needing all the sparks to come together.
Speaker 1: That's interesting because some theories are like the universe's holographic,
and like in a hologram, it's not fractured, it's miniature holes.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I don't think on that. Oh yeah, absolutely,
I've never I had an old priest friend who studied
was all in the holographic stuff, and I don't disagree.
It's just not really my wheelhouse. But like, yeah, the
hologram is a pretty good image because from the single
part of it, it will replicate the whole image, even
from just a single part of it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So now the blue theory has descended down to Earth
and given Pinocchio the spark, and he has free will
and agency. But he's not yet a real boy. So
he's still this imperfect you know, initiate, not initiate. What's
the thing that comes before that? Would he be a
choir or whatever? Yeah, he's he's outside of it.
Speaker 2: Still, he's a category man. He's not quite right.
Speaker 1: So he has to undergo this alchemical process of illumination
by fighting temptations right with the help of his conscience,
Jimminy Cricket, good old JC, Yes, who was? It was
interesting because he was homeless at the beginning. Remember he
was like looking for a home and then he found
Geppetto and when he was promoted to be the conscience
and he got like a new outfit with new shoes
and what do you think that?
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess he's been imbued with his divine
like sort of he's been given his little magic totem stuff,
his new clothes. You know. It's kind of like make
the deal, get the clothes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the clothes
make the manner. In this case, the cricket he puts
on his clothes, he feels like you'd be a better
conscience when he's dressed. When dude, I've cleaned myself up
over the year, I'm like, yeah, it feels much better
being cleaned up. You feel like a new person, you know.
Speaker 1: Oh, I know the chat's gonna go crazy for your haircut.
Speaker 2: Oh dude, I've been looking back at all things of myself.
I like, dude, get this cave guy out of here.
Orthodox bro like anyways.
Speaker 1: So he is, oh, what what was Jimmy Cricket like
in the Garamount del Toro.
Speaker 2: Oh man, he uh, I mean he wasn't very different
from like in terms of being a like a conscience
towards Pinocchio. His name I think wasn't Jimmy. I think
it's like Sebastian or something. But it is strange because
when he made the deal, he basically said, I will
be his conscience in exchange for a book contract.
Speaker 1: Hmmm.
Speaker 2: That deal. He's like, so it's kind of like, I'll
play conscience for you know, some man deal. And then yeah,
and spoiler, at the end, Pinocchio doesn't actually become a
real boy. And I found out that in the Disney
remake that just came out a couple of years ago.
He also doesn't turn into a real boy in that one.
Speaker 1: Oh really.
Speaker 2: Yeah. They say they have the most ambiguous endings. At
the end of Guerremo, he says, the narrator Jimmy Crickett says,
is he real? I don't know what happens. Happens and
then we die. It's literally the end of the movie.
Speaker 1: That's not very Disney like.
Speaker 2: No, that wasn't so that was the del Toro, But
the Disney one says basically the same thing. He says
Pinocchio is as real as any real boy can be.
Doesn't actually become real though, and it just kind of
ends on this freeze frame ending you're like, so, what
actually happened here? So it's funny, but I brought that
up because actually, at the end of Pinocchio the del
Toro one, he dies in his active sacrifice for his father,
but he come back to life, where prior to this
whole movie, he was entering into these like bardos where
he would constantly die and be born again over and
over again. And it was like, you gotta see, this
movie is crazy, and it was like he was so
he was immortal and so he'd always be going down
to purgatory everything he did. And then eventually he finally
did this act of self sacrifice that caused him to
die once. But everyone's so sad. Jimmy Cricket says, oh,
remember to the fairy, Remember when you cut that deal
with me at the beginning that I would be his
conscience for the book deal, Well, I actually want him
to come back to life. That's what I want my
deal to be. And so in the end, it's crazy
because like Pinocchio's good deed isn't even what makes him
become a boy. It's the deal Jimmy Cricket plays with
the gods to like uphold this basically pagan contract of
his soul. And it's.
Speaker 1: Well, I do not know how close that is to
the original cereal of Pinocchio. Maybe they are going off
of that because that was a lot different than Disney.
And even Jimmy Crickett gets squashed by hammer in the
original tale.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know, it's crazy. He's in the original story.
Pinocchio doesn't even get the desire to become a real
boy till like twenty fifth or twenty six out of
thirtieth chapter of the book. So it's interesting how much
Disney it's It's funny because like maybe this is not
the final thought. We'll share it, and I but one
of my concluding thoughts of this because just so I
don't forget it talk about now. But like compare this
Dell del Toro version. It was like super pagan and
like super cool, like the Disney one actually does feel
more Christian. It's like in comparison between the two because
just the way things play out. I think if anybody's
seen the two, they could they could maybe maybe see
where I'm coming from. But uh, shoot, where is I
going with all that? Dang I lost my I lost
the other threat I was gonna make.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, go on, that's okay, So, uh going on
to school. So school is his now he's the catechuman, right,
he is the apprentice and an apprentice, that's the word
I was looking for. He's on his way to school,
which is the nosis, and he is distracted by the
shady characters, and he's promised fame, he's promised money, he's
promised wooden women, all of the typical pitfalls that you
would encounter on your hero's journey, which this is totally
a hero's journey. And I know you were listening to
Jordan Peterson talk about Pinocchio a little bit, so tell
us what.
Speaker 2: That was about. Yeah, okay, this will Actually this helps
me remember my thought I was gonna say about Garim
Wars too. It was so interesting because I think at
the end of watching Jordan Peterson, like the Six Hours
or whatever, I watched this whole thing like Personal Paul
stuff aside, you noticed the evolutionary power thing with the
hero's journeys. What meaning like Jordan Peterson talks about the
kingdom to heaven and all that stuff, the road, the
Kingdom within you, all this stuff. It's like he kind
of like does the Christian adjacent thing, the Gnostic kind
of moor or whatever New World waves looking at it.
But it's always like the underlying messages is that evolution
created this situation wherein the hero journey is like somehow
that's like literally baked in somehow, like they don't know,
it's like somehow built into the evolutionary need to say
that cooperation all these things is better than power and
that it's better to be a good boy than to
fight against it. But what's implied in that still is
that like you're the biggest dog on the playground. Like
there's always the implication of rising above something and that
forever progression and a scent. And I just realized, like
this is not at all how I see things as
a Christian.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like it's our humility. Yeah, It's like he is
there a humility that we grow and it's like so
all of these yeah, I guess all these I don't know,
these interpretations they like his, and then Gary with del
Toro's too, they're sort of baked within this system that
let me say any different way, and garymal del Toro's movie,
you get the sense, and I think you get the
sense from a lot of art these days that it's
the artist's job to break us out of the system,
and that the system will always be stifling creativity. But
the joke is that the system has a spot inside
the system for rebels to rebel against the system.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's what Grateful Dead is and things like that.
Counterculture is just the same stuff.
Speaker 2: I saw this great uh meme. It was like, hey, guys,
I'm going to my first Grateful Dead show. What do
you think in the outfit was like a happ it
said FBI with like secrets on it. Yeah, said like
fish sucks, Jerry's dead, get a job exactly. It was awesome.
Speaker 1: So Pinocchio was on his Here's journey? Is that mostly
what Jordan Peterson would say about Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, let me look at my notes really quick,
just to see if I wrote here.
Speaker 1: So in his decisions by choosing to go with the
Fox and the Cat to chase his fame and fortune
and this the song is actually like an actor's life
for me. Remember Hi did lead and he is actually
mirroring the fall of Adam. And this is what well,
it's just where all his problems start. You know, he's
just created. He's just you know, created from the dust
or the wood, and then he was given this divine
spark and he chooses the first decision he does out
in the world is to fall into temptation.
Speaker 2: I think they give him an apple too, just I
mean it's so on the nome.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he's like, give this to your
teacher and then somebody else ends up eating it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost not fair to mention that. But yeah.
So I have a little, very short quote from Saint
John Cron's step. This is from My Life in Christ,
page three eighty four. If anybody has it, what effect
does the theater have on the heart? The spirit of
this world? The spirit of idleness, idle talk, just cunning, wickedness, pride, presumption.
They do not bring any moral good to anyone. The
authors of dramas and the actors only give people what
they have in themselves, their own spirit, neither more nor less.
And do the actors think of public morality? Have they
any intention to correcting people's morals? None whatsoever? Which is
funny because this is one hundred and twenty some years ago,
and it's fun because actors are now trying to correct
our morals. But I still think what Saint John says
is right on the money.
Speaker 1: Well, this is super interesting because actors come from mystery
schools and mystery plays. So the even the idea of
Greek theater and the very profession of actor would be
somebody who is an idol or standing in the place
of a god or a deity. And I know I've
been promising y'all, me and Donut are going to do
a show, but I just wanted to make sure I
did all my homework before I got them on. And
I have all these three books about ancient mystery cults.
So this is where acting comes from. Is lay acting
a god or a deed. So I've got this book,
I've got mystery cults in the ancient world. I've got
the old secret Teachings of Ages, all that right there.
So we're gonna be talking about that.
Speaker 2: Relation to me. By the way, if anyone's.
Speaker 1: Wondering what manley p hall Oh.
Speaker 2: Yes, my relation.
Speaker 1: Jay likes to call them manly p whole.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. So it's funny, we said about person. I
just had another thought of one of these like hey kids,
look out. But the word person, it's one of those
ones that, uh, there's different. If you go Latin, well,
I'll bat it back. Person can either mean through sound,
persona or a person can derive from this other Greek
word which I can't say, well, prosopolymis basically his face
face to face. And so let's just for lack of
a to just kind of make it quick. There's the
Christian version of a person, and a person in Christian
sense is you plus another person like that you're not
a person until you're in relation to another. Where the
sort of no I bring this up now is because
I'm thinking many people will listen to Alan Watts and
he'll talk about like, oh, person means it's a Greek
word for sound, and the person is a mask that
you wear and really underneath every person is this deeper
you know, blah blah blah blah blah. But the idea
is that that that's one of these linguistic slight of
hands that diminishes the word person to mean purely a mask,
and that's not what it means. That's like the bull
interpretation of it. It's like not so people should be
aware that mean that all ties back to the theater, because
Alan Watts is in the sense of the Greek theater
would use the persona as a mask through which sound
would come out. And it's like that's not wrong, but
it's kind of like so elementary way of looking at
it that if you have that idea of a person alone,
that's all a person is is a mask through which
a theater, you know, an actor through which sound comes out.
You're gonna be kind of handicapping yourself in a bit
of what it really means to be a person. So
I think it's just another one of those words that
gets used in the wrong way and kind of has
a whole life of its own and new definitions that
Sorry I'm wrangling, I'm right. I think you get my point.
Speaker 1: That's okay. So, yeah, we're talking about actors and mystery schools.
So Pinocchio is being distracted from his divine mission, which
was school by acting or I don't know if he's
alluding to different mystery cults that can throw you off
your path, but this is where he gets kidnapped by Stromboli, right,
and he is a natural actor he goes out, he
gets the natural laught just because he is clumsy and
he looks like a puppet, but he has no strings, right,
and that's.
Speaker 2: Where you get go ahead, you're gonna have to finish
it up.
Speaker 1: Well, I was just gonna say, he's still a puppet.
Even though he's not being controlled directly by Strombulie, he's
still a being controlled by him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly. I was literally gonna say the same
exact thing that. It's like back to saying the machine
has a place for you where you think you're not
part of the machine. So here around, I've got no strings.
I've got no strings. I'm a free person. Like, dude,
you are not free. You're so far from free it's
not even funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he exactly he thinks he's free, but then
he gets thrown in a cage at night.
Speaker 2: Oh that scene. Honestly, Like, I've watched this movie a
few times preparing for this, and like that every time,
I'm like, I just want to go grab that little
one boy and give him a hug. I feel so
bad for him in that little cage. He's terri I'm saying, dude,
these are good artists. Many they get you to like
even yeah, like they show everything you need to know.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1: And I mean, if you wanted to put some kind
of virtuous Christian spin on this, I mean Pinocchio has
to become a good boy to be a real.
Speaker 2: Boy, right, yeah, And I think that's something good good.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, he does have to find that,
you know, divine virtue to self actualize into reality.
Speaker 2: Yeah. What I love about these films and it's just life, right,
It's like things are how we see them, you know.
And so it's like I think it's like the Lord says,
be wise as a snake, but innocent as a dog.
And so I love looking at this stuff because it's
like the gnastic stuff's true. The Christian stuff is there.
It's there in the sense that like dude, God made
every God is in charge of everything, like every single
movie coming out of Hollywood, Like he might not have
blessed it, but like he will use it. He's like
the cosmic GPS navigator that will like reroute us to
where we gotta go to get safe. So it's like
you can find truth in everything. But it's like there's
a phrase and Romans says truth in unrighteousness, which means
there's truth but not the whole thing. And so it's
like I can appreciate these movies now that maybe I'm
just like so much deeper in the liturgical life out
here where it's like it doesn't have as much as
an effect on me. But I can't deny that the
gnostic stuff, the occult thing is like like I'm trying
to make lemonade out of this stuff here. Man, They're
like some bad, bad fruits coming off this tree that.
Speaker 1: You're trying to make the best of the bad. But
I think I Sasonry was doing that too, because there's
and we're talking about this when we talk about Hunchback
of Notre Dame. Obviously a lot of these Enlightenment ideals
did produce things that were beautiful, like beautiful cathedrals and
architecture and things that are subjectively good. So that's something
I still want to like suss out, is like, what
were guild masons the same as? Uh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you're saying, were the actual craftsman's people involved
in all this stuff? Who were they actually working for?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean like building your beautiful Gothic cathedrals and stuff.
These were for Christianity. They weren't, you know, for the devil.
Speaker 2: Right, It's it's like I think, at best, this will
be good because we're gonna did we mention live what
we're gonna do next prop.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll do hunchback next time.
Speaker 2: Yah yeah yeah, laugh at that. But but the Gothic stuff,
like these are beautiful cathedrals, it's true, but like from
an Orthodox perspective, it's very also illuminating, no pun intended,
because it's very different from how we even perceive the universe.
The way it's built, the way that the Gothic is
sort of like the idea with all this.
Speaker 5: Stone, like so much weight, it becomes weightless and the
light shines through where It's like our churches are mostly
a lot of the times, they're like the walls are
this thick and there's like no windows till they're very.
Speaker 2: High up and it's all lined with saints. It's like,
so we just have a different world, you know, like
mindset of how we even see these things, and so
like I can find it beating a Gothic church, but
I also acknowledge this is not like the right way
to worship.
Speaker 1: Okay, interesting, well, let's put it into luciferium, I guess,
talking about illumination and light and the gothic light. Pinocchio
is Luciferian. And this also relates to the Spielberg movie AI,
which is you said Kubrick wanted to do AI, yeah.
Speaker 2: And Spielberg finished it.
Speaker 1: Right, So the little boy in AI is basically Pinocchio, right.
He has to become a good little robot boy so
that he can become a real boy. And he's even
obsessed with the blue fairy in the Spielberg movie AI.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and the spiel one, if I remember correctly,
I don't remember very well, but like he gets kicked
out of his family because like the other boy comes
back who is supposed to be dead, and then it's
like the whole movie. It's like totally changes the nature
of what the story is about, because it's now about
like you are the only same thing in the Garama
del Toro, everybody dies except the immortal Pinocchio boy, and
so then it becomes this huge meditation on like loss,
and you know, I don't know, I really don't know
what to make of it because it's like the the
Disney one, I think, at best is kind of like
about theosis, or you could say, if not just becoming
a person, like moving from imitation, because everything Piano Pinano
Pinocchio does is imitating. He's copying life. He doesn't know
what to do to actually participating being a real person.
And so it's like that move from imitation to participation
is I think the journey you know, hopefully I'm long
and that's kind of like to participate in life rather
than just imitating it.
Speaker 1: Well, did you notice one of the first things he
did when he was brought to life, which set himself
on fire?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right, So this is, yeah, a Promethean nod, a Luciferian
Like if you look up lucifer in the dictionary and
an old dictionary, one of the definitions would be a
friction match. So like just the idea of lighting up
your I think it's his finger or something, wasn't it
he has his finger?
Speaker 2: It's crazy. I have a little picture of that when
we go through the slideshow. It's crazy because I can
imagine them sitting in the room. They're just like stalling
for time, like, Okay, what do we do now? That's
how I might staying the face and that'd be fun
and da da da, And I'm serious, like, I bet
it was that simple. But that's also I think the
crazy thing of like how we as human beings are
like plugged into the spiritual world where you could be like,
even though you're innocently just thinking about like what would
be way to kill you know, forty frames on the
camera and do four seconds of screen time. That'd be fun.
It shows he's learning stuff, but it kind of shows
like to give young his credit, if I may, Like,
there's that sort of weird archetypal nets in us that
like glob onto these certain images. And I think when
the when the mind the twentieth century, twenty near, let's
just say, modern mind of the last five hundred years,
like defaults more towards this gnostic orientation than a truly
you know, incarnated Christian.
Speaker 1: One the Akashak Records, Man, we're all tapeded.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta got a
library free pass. Dude, got a lifetime pass.
Speaker 1: I got a library card to the Akashak Redcords.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I'm cutting it up though now that I'm
out of state.
Speaker 1: So in Ai the movie, I mean, he Ai is
Luciferian all by itself. We could take a whole show
and talk about that, and I'll probably do a live
stream outlining my new book called The All Seeing AI
pretty soon. But the Blue Fairy, so her, uh, the
model who did the work for Blue Fairy. It was
also the model for Colombia Pictures.
Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't that crazy? Yeah? Both where?
Speaker 1: I know?
Speaker 2: Yeah that she was one of There are a few models
they chose, but I was I thought that was interesting.
I was doing my research.
Speaker 1: So did you happen to know who Colombia is?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Tell me, Huh, Colombia is a goddess. That's why we
have a district of Columbia. That's why we have Columbia Pictures.
So Lady Columbia or Miss Columbia is literally the female
national personification of the United States.
Speaker 2: Oh really like the you know the Colombia boat at
Disneyland too. No, I'm sorry, it's the Columbus. But still
basically it's the same, the same.
Speaker 1: Root word, same idea. But yeah, so she is basically
America's goddess. This is one representation of her.
Speaker 2: She's usually got a yes and the company.
Speaker 1: The statue on the top of the Capitol Building in Washington,
d C. Is also a woman or amalgam of like
Columbia and a Native American woman and some other like.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 1: It's Britannia. I'm not sure, but so she is a
goddess also right on the Capitol buildings. So Colombia the
goddess is a pretty, you know, deep esoteric thing that
not a lot of people talk about. But yeah, she
is the personification of America. And this would make sense
too if he was an Enlightenment freemason, he would be
on board with, you know, the independence of America.
Speaker 2: I'm going to send you while we're chatting, sorry, a
picture I saw an art museum of like the whole
spirit of America thing. It was lovely, oh, you know
in that kind of disgusting kind of way.
Speaker 1: Picture of a statue that's on top of the Capitol
is beautiful.
Speaker 2: It's a good photo. But yeah, let's see here, all right.
I'm sending you over it now. You can check it
out later. Sorry, chat we're gonna pull it up. See, Okay,
we're making good television right now. We're like both looking
at our phones.
Speaker 1: Well, so that's Columbia. That's the blue faery. That is uh,
the personification of you know, America and its values, which
is freedom. And she also represents the Pistosophia of the Gnostics.
Speaker 3: What is that?
Speaker 2: Can it? Is it blurry? Can you see it? Oh?
Speaker 1: I can see it. Can you describe what?
Speaker 2: Yeah? It's the spirit of America. Why can't I? Oh
you got to see that little sin cap therap top
and yep. I sent it over to you so you
can check it out.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: The description of this painting so people can look it up.
It's the Genesis of America from eighteen sixty eight. I
think I can't really read it here. It's called the
Genesis of America by Adolph V. Something. He's a French
artist type in nineteenth century genesis Genus Genesis of America painting. Okay,
see all that in there?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So I bet you didn't think that Pinocchio was
connected to all this crazy stuff, did you.
Speaker 2: I love it, Jane, I love It's crazy. Let's keep going.
Speaker 1: So, like we were talking about before, she is Sophia
of the Gnostics and Pinocchio is also on his fool's journey.
So there's Kabbala again.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 1: If you look at the fool in the tarot deck,
that's very Pinocchio, Like he's about to walk off a cliff, right,
And Taro or Tarochi comes from that area in Italy,
so he is also on this fool's journey of the tarot.
Speaker 2: I didn't know Taro was in Italy. That's interesting.
Speaker 1: One last thing about the Blue Fairy just so happens
that Isis. So we were talking about stars before, right,
And in Egypt, Sirius was known as Isis. Sothis right,
the goddess, and Venus is also associated with Isis the
Blue Fairy. In the book, Pinocchio is called the Fairy
with turquoise hair. Yeah, right, in Isis.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry what she dies at some point too. Oh,
she's not even a.
Speaker 1: Spirit if I remember correctly what I was reading about
the books. So Pinocchio comes upon the Fairy with turquoise hair,
and she is in a house full of dead family members,
and she's awaiting the undertaker to come with all of
the caskets, and she herself is also dead in some way.
So there's a lot going on in the book than
there is in the movie. Like the movie is just
like Baby's First Mystery School, right, But.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it totally is it's like and it's also it's
to say, I give it up. It's impressive, whether this
is good or batter, it's just impressive the way Walt
Disney was able to take stuff and like streamline it
to get to these new cores. Because like I was
really blown away. Like and again I think I'm just
doing apologetics, like I'm trying to see things as good
as possible, but like I feel like Disney still kept
that core Christian adjacent Protestant Christian stuff in there, at
least of like moral goodness and the idea of like
the theosis thing. Because it's like it's interesting because Disney,
he I mean, there's been I was also there. Since
the last eighty years, there have been fifteen film adaptations
of Pinocchio let alone, like all the other things video games,
TV shows, blah blah blah, but Disney's was pretty early on,
you know. And so I think, like it's it's interesting
because I think he was pulling He wasn't pulling from
other movies or anything like that, you know, so he
really had to kind of just pick and choose from
the Colode story what to turn into his Pinocchio. And
I'm just I'm kind of fascinated with the elements he
chose and sort of the story while yeah, all the
Meltson went together, and how what his sort of trajet
his plan was with making that movie. And I'd like
to go ahead.
Speaker 1: I know, because I keep finding these correlations and I'm
like there's no way, and then like, yes, way, it
can't be coincidence or whatever, because what I was gonna
say is Isis is also known as the goddess of
the Lapis Lazuli head. So isis Is, Yeah, has blue hair,
just like the fairy with turquoise hair. And if what's
not Missini what was his author's name, Harlow Lorenzini, if
he was in any kind of esoterica at all, he
would be knowing who isis Is and what her actress are.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I think it's like you know, I know,
I said like twenty minutes ago, but I think it's
like people of our last century, the modern man or whatever,
the last few centuries, it's like we have this default
operating system to mythology and the old gods and all
this gnostic Luciferian you know, lack of a better word
of cult grounds for that our houses are all built
on and so I think it's it takes a real
concerted effort to try to break out of seeing things
that way, you know, like basically like for instance, dualism. Oh,
there's the forces of good vers evil in the world,
and you know, it's like these things are this eternal battle,
and so it's just interesting. It's like these guys in
the Disney studio making these films.
Speaker 5: Carlo.
Speaker 2: I don't know about Carlo, because it sounds like he
was he was deep in it, you know. It's like
I just feel like default, I just buy this way
without saying so speaking about other people, I have to
be super vigilant about is my mind actually orthodox or
am I worldly? And thinking about things because it's so
easy to default to this, you know more mythological syncretic
put everything together like no, I'm a Christian. Everything can
work now, you know, I can make it all work.
And it's like careful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Disney is very insidious like that, you think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like the whole time we've been talking
in the beginning with the theater stuff, I was thinking
about when we did a princess protection program and just
everything you've talked about with Project Princess.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Pinocchio one more layer of esoterica. Let's put
this on. Why not is made of pine pine wood
and he's got that. Well, if you know anything on
witchcraft and a cult, all of the different elements are
very important. So depending on what you what kind of
person or magician you'd want to be, is like what
you would make your magic wand out of. So this
is Harry Potter, yes, but this is also real. Different
trees have different magic powers. Pine trees are very important
in esoterica because of the pine cone, and that is
the symbol of the pineal plan or your third Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the Girmo one they make more reference to the
pine cone because like Pinocchio, you know, the boy Carlo
his son before he dies, he in grpetto are like
trying to find He want to plant a pine tree,
so he has to get the perfect pine cone with
all of the you know, the things on them, otherwise
it's not perfect. And so of course he finds the
perfect pine cone. There's too much symbolism this scene. I
can't break it all down, but he finds the pine cone. Carlo.
The boy dies, but the pine cone retains its perfect
shape and then from there the dad decides to plant
it in the ground, and out of there comes the
pine tree that Pinocchio is born from. Oh they make, yeah,
the pine cone and the girmo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's your mystic third eye pine pine cone connection.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: One thing I did want to talk about is jim
Andy the car Like you were saying, this is this
is about virtue and like let your conscience be your guide.
In this context, though, I think Jiminy would be more
like your holy guardian angel of high magic.
Speaker 2: So in high magic they do guardian Angels'll tell me
about this.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, So the purpose of like let's say Golden
Donn or like what your Crollian sex is to get
in contact with your holy guardian angel. And basically, like
they say, this is your higher self. Yeah, it's your
spirit itself. It's also an angel. But if you really
dig deep and read into what they're actually saying, so
this is a solar phallic religion, your holy guardian angel
or your higher self is actually just your penis and
your libido. And like, basically that is the needle on
the compass that you fall low down life's path.
Speaker 2: I'm laughing because it's like I have to knit, like
I've lived the past life and it's like, man, you
think you're guided by well, first of all, you're probably
guided by some higher spirit. It what kind of spirit though,
Like is that's the whole matter? Different? I know for sure,
because like I've I used to find my guardian spirit
all the time.
Speaker 6: You know, yeah, right there, that's funny because like that's
so of the nature to demons to mess with you
like that, because it's like I think you're like so
a state transcendent, but you're really just following like the
tiny compass everywhere.
Speaker 2: And man, it's like it's so true. That's how it
works out right. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So that all of that was the preamble to the movie,
which that was the pre movie notes when I had
to pause it and I'm like, do I have mental
problems or is Pinocchio like super deep? So then I
had I went and started the movie. Actually, so now
we can get into talking about like certain specific scenes
if you want to do that.
Speaker 2: Sure, one thing I was just thinking of pail end
of what we were talking about here is the demons.
Like it's like yeah, because sexual impurity is like such
a huge thing obviously like and it's sex is so powerful.
There is a way to keep couples alive, like a
gas tank, you know. And so it's like this sexuality
is like it's really it can really hurt you when
used in the wrong way. And it's like I think
the demons know that, you know. It's like, I mean,
it's like we all know. It's like SEXUALI is designed
for a purpose, you could say. And so it's like
that purpose becomes altered and frankly like turned the opposite
direction and backwards, covered with mud over the vision board.
It's like, yeah, it's just it's terrible. And so it's like,
I don't know, it's one of those things. The demons
really they really get us when it comes to like
pursuing your pleasure of yourself, and especially in like the
very carnal level, because once it's like we're supposed to
bring our mind into our heart and you know, kind
of let them the heart be this throne of which
the spirit sits. But when we can't hold it there
and we fall lower and lower, that heart goes into
our stomach further down to our loins. And so it's
like it really is like this psychosomatic reflection of where
we are in our spiritual life when so much of
we see things is through this like spirit reproductive combo.
It's like a very it's like a wire's crossing thing
to such a high degree that, in all sincerity, encourage
anybody like falling down that rabbit hole to get help
or read the Fathers or whatever you got to do,
because yeah, sex magic is not good.
Speaker 1: Well, this is the path to the beast, which Pinocchio
is going to almost turn into on pleasure island, right
the donkey. So in ac cult, the uprighted pentagram points
to God, you know, and the averse pentagram the two
points or it points down to the ground. So in
their hierarchy there's God, Man and beast, right, and what
we're trying to do is go from man and get
closer to God. But what they're trying to do is
get man more beast Like. Does that make sense by
inverting the right We.
Speaker 2: Haven't talked about that in our spirituality class here at
the Laster. Is that simple as the idea that it's
like and your trap too, right, because in the episode
on Pentagram, you're enclosed. There's no freedom.
Speaker 1: Good point, So yeah, it starts with when you would
shapon a star, every man and woman is a star,
that's Crowley dictum. Not every man and Woman is a star,
that's the Croly dictum. Right, And then you have Jimmy
Cricket who is singing among the books Alice in Wonderland
and Peter Pan. Yeah, that's that two other Disney classics,
but also mind Control classics.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and it's yeah, straight up. And it's so
meta too, because it's like he's telling us about this
all after the fact, Like, so Jimminy lives in a
world where Pinocchio has become like a book. Like there's
some more of weird meta Disney world thing going on here,
you know, like the whole story is in the past.
So I don't really don't have much of a diatribe
on that. I just thought it was kind of cute.
Speaker 1: It's like Easter Eggs, but I just thought that was
interesting they chose Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan the
two other esoteric cartoons. Yeah, so Jimmy is homeless. He
finds a toy maker who's the Demiurge. I like the cat,
I like the fish. He calls him little wooden Head.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's kinda he's kind of uh, it's that fire.
He's not the super mean evil demiurge, but kind of
like they show just a little taste of it, because
remember he has the Pinocchio kicked the cat.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, he does have the tiniest little mean streak. So, yeah,
we talked about Geopetto says, I wonder what time it
is Sophia gives life. He's a quasi boy, so we're
gonna talk about that next time with quasi moto.
Speaker 2: I don't think about that. That's hilarious, sick, that's great.
Speaker 1: Also, these stories are written in the same century, so
they have a lot of the same stuff going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited for hunk Back too, but I get.
Speaker 1: Real right, so her Wanda isn't pynagram be as serious.
Let your conscience be your God, Holy God Angel. The
world is full of temptation, they say. He he lights
himself on fire as soon as he is awake. I
said that, like Prometheus, Lucifer, the fox that he meets
is called honest John. Did you catch that? Oh yeah,
so yeah, just like the first thing that he does
is a mistake when he What do you.
Speaker 2: Make of the give a little whistle song. Did you
have any comment on that?
Speaker 1: Oh, when he needs Jimmy, give a little whistle.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Always let your conscience be your guide.
Speaker 2: See, I'm just like I'm trying to be boomer about him,
Like yeah, that's like the Jesus Prairies, Like any time
you're in trouble, just like, yell out Jesus, save me,
give a little whistle. Well.
Speaker 1: Fox is a interesting word numerology. Numerologically it equals six six,
but there's like, oh yeah, there's like Fox theaters there.
Fox is a very prolific, esoteric symbol. So he tries
to get him into the theater the easy road to success, fame, money,
and wooden girls. He sings an actor's life for me. Uh,
we talked about actors are mind controlled puppets. He threatens
to turn into the fire.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then I found an interesting line.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just gonna say. So he has all
this success on the stage with Stromboli and he throws
the gold coins at him and everything, and then he
gets locked up and Stromboli tells him, when you're old,
I'm just gonna turn you into firewood. So this is
another like foreshadowing of how this industry treats actors and
actresses right, absolutely.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was just watching a video on poor Zach
Zach Efron man that I've change that guy's gone through
over the years, like man, like Jamie and I have
been honest, it is funny, Like sorry Paul soapbox for
half a second, like out of this world flex right now,
because like I felt down this rabbit hole last week
of like YouTubers, Like I don't know who YouTubers are like,
and I watched people that have like millions of views
and all this stuff and they're all like top grade
editing and everything's like a Discovery Channel essay from twenty twelve.
And it's like, but these people are just like you
can tell they research stuff for like three days and
then doing a video on it and we get millions
of views. I'm like, bro, we've been on this track
for like over five ten years a piece, like you know,
and it's like we just come here. We just like
don't have any We got such a boomer set up,
like I don't have to like wait the hours of conversation,
but man, we got the gold in there. Dude. If
you just coming around.
Speaker 1: For a while, that's my pet peeve man, Like I've
been doing this twenty years, and uh, people can just
make a TikTok account and have like millions of all
I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't, yeah, but no, but that's what I'm saying,
Like I feel it. I feel it, you know, And
it's like, but these guys have nothing. It's like the
substance is just not there. And it's like the end
of the day, you imagine that they're are slaves. You gotta
like sit there checking your algorithm all day long, checking
the comments, think of a new relevant things. I realized,
like I was watching all these videos, it's like everything
is like mystery of the week. What do you really
know about deodorant? You know? He really is a laundry.
It's like I want to I sampled every burger king
fry in every state. It's like, dude, these people are
just like pining for a meaning in their life, like
looking for something. Yeah.
Speaker 1: People who make like conspiracy content and like esoteric content.
It's not very good. And it's like, what do you
want me to be a slick operation or do you
want me to read all these books? Because I can't
do both and not to be a producer and a
technic technician and a lighting and how like I don't know,
I can't do it all. But Jay thinks that I
have the best audience. So he's like, all these cool
people are in your audience. That's the that's it, that's
the corner of the He.
Speaker 2: Gets all the neck I'm sorry, he gets all the
zealous converts and angry people. You get all the chill heads, people.
Speaker 1: With attention spans. Okay, so this is where the movie
gets interesting and we haven't even gone there yet. Pleasure Island, dude,
what the heck? This is like the deepest, darkest, epskiniest thing.
Because so after Pinocchio tries his hand at acting and
he fails miserably and the Blue Fairy has to come
rescue him, she's like, I can't keep doing this. This
is the classic scene where he is lying and his
lies grow out of his face and it turns into
a bird. So he's like another mirror of like a
creator that has gone awry and making matter out of lies.
Speaker 2: What And And I loved this scene because it shows
that lying sin deforms your countenance, like you literally start
to change, and like we see even more when he
becomes the donkey, you know, and he goes further further
into his sin. But like I thought that was beautiful,
Like and especially he's in this confession moment with the fairy.
He's in confession, right, He's just lying through his teeth
and it's like, dude, you're here to get healed. It's like,
it's so fascinating the way we are afraid of our family,
you know, of our parents who want to help us.
And it's like, so we double down the lie and
what happens is you start devolving. Yeah. So it's just
like that is a beautiful image of what happens when
you when you lie, how you become transfigured in a
dark way.
Speaker 1: I always wondered. I was thinking, like do some people
lie during confession? And like what is the thought process
that goes into that, because like, would you lie to
your doctor about your symptoms? Exactly get better if you say,
like my foot hurts, but you actually have pneumonia. So
it's like don't you know?
Speaker 2: And it's yeah, and it's so much of how we
are raised in our culture too. We get the Western
version of the Fall, and you know, God's angry and
He's gonna punish you It's like when you think about, man,
I should I don't have time to go that I
have this great quote, was reading this thing on the
Father's But like God is basically saying like it's like
Adam is like two years old and he just like
committed a huge no. No. God's like, Adam, where are you?
He gives him every opportunity to just come and be
honest about what happened. You know, he never once says
I reprimand you that He's basically saying, where are you?
What happened? He's giving Adam every opportunity to be honest
about what's going on. We don't read it that way.
And also when he's like Adam, if you eat from
that tree, you're gonna die. So don't eat from the tree.
We don't hear that way. We say, you eat from
that tree, I'm gonna kill you. And it's like God
doesn't kill people. He's the author of life. Like the
way we just take this armchair like freaking stoner, I
mean probably not even stoners, dude. Just like the most
base not not based, but like base interpretation of Scriptured
of course, will lead you to thinking you have to
lie to God to get out of trouble. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like, right, it's weird that authority always breeds this
in us too, like we have we feel like we
have to deceive authority all the time.
Speaker 2: Right in the Del Toro one, when they get the
Pleasure Island, it implies a lot of stuff because they
don't do a pleasure Island in that movie. And I
heard the new Pinocchio now I think it has it.
It doesn't turn into a donkey. I don't know. Actually, no, no, no,
But in the Del Toro one, the Pleasure Island is
a fascist boot training camp. So it's really interesting that
they send they basically send them there to play out
not like this pleasure fantasy, but like this war we're gonna,
you know, let's fight for our country thing. But it's
funny because Pinocchio and lamp Wick in that film they
call him Candor. They both like they're against each other
in this simulated battle, but they both capture each other's
flags and they kind of like it's like gen Z
is like see together, And then in the fash is like,
oh yeah, yeah, no, not at all, sorry, kids, And
it's so like, uh so it's interesting because it's basically
saying pleasure island. When you're naughty, you'll be sent to
be converted by the state into this super soldier. And
so Pinocchio basically has to break free of becoming a
super soldier in this situation, not like Captain America. I'm
just calling a super soldier, like training to become a
soldier rather than training to fall into beastiality or whatever
he becomes in this one. And so it's interesting again,
like the whole iteration is like fascist state bad, creative
artist genius, you know, Promethean spark boy good, and I
just get over at the garb of the tour. Movie
is like such a joke, as like, dude, you're like
fighting this like saying that artists will breaks. You've all
assisted as long as you break the rules. And at
the very end, sorry, at the very very end of
the movie, Pinocchio escapes Monstrol by lying and his nose
is growing the whole time, so they could build a
bridge to get out. So it's implying like it's such
a new philosophy of the world thing that's like lying
in thievery and deceit like Bilbo you know which Bilblo.
I'm sure you could do a good Exejesus song, But
the idea that the thief will get you out, it's like,
I'm not sure what to make of that, because it's
like Christ kind of does it in the Descent to Hades,
he tricks the devil, like the devil thinks he's getting him,
but he really sneaks his way in and out. You
could say, but yeah, I don't think that really justifies
lying as a way to help you ascend, which is
kind of is interesting that in the Giomo one it
implies a lot of like breaking the rules, disobedience, and
there's a time for lying that can actually help you
break out the system. It's just really different than Disney's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that one didn't have Pleasure Island. Huh.
Speaker 2: Yep, this.
Speaker 1: Movie, the third act is really dark. Did you notice
their meeting at the Red Lobster in.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no need to say anything like hilarious.
Speaker 1: The two Arcons are colluding with the character called the Coachman,
who was like the devil right, He's a demonic entity.
He has like black oily things that work for him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those things are so weird. I didn't notice those
like when I was a kid, ever, yeah, what are those?
Speaker 1: They're like black good demons. So the coachman sitting with
the cat in the fox, uh, trying to figure out
how to kidnap young kids, it's right, So he's like
a child t r a f f.
Speaker 2: Er.
Speaker 1: He talks about meeting at the crossroads at midnight. Uh,
we we've talked about the crossroads, I'm sure, haven't we.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we did it when we did a Princess in
the Front.
Speaker 1: That's right, So voodoo classic crossroads. And then he like
whispers this whole for thirty seconds or less. He's like
the whole plan to the box, and there is no
exit Jesus or explanation of what he is saying. So
he's probably laying out the entire like dark child dot
dot dot business.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's implied that he knows exactly what he's doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the coachman's collecting stupid little boys. He says,
he takes them to Pleasure Island and they never come
back as boys. And he even morphs into the devil
after whispering the whole pe ed oh plot.
Speaker 2: That's yeah, I mean not for kids, dude. This when
I was watching this time the body horror scene when
Pinocchio is when lamp Wick is transforming.
Speaker 4: Uh huh.
Speaker 2: That is like it's like right on part with anything
David Cromberg's Dead Man. This thing is an incredible scene.
It's like, yeah, fun has its price, and uh, I
like that part because that's when Pinocchio really realizes it's
time to change. Yes, okay, the GTFO dude ain't.
Speaker 1: And so they get to Pleasure Island and they're doing
all the gluttony, the fighting, the smoking. They're being bad
and it's kind of implying with lamp Wick and the
other boys, like the more bad you are, the faster
you turn into a donkey. Right, And this scene comes
from a very old book called The Golden Ass. Have
you heard of that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and thanks for reminding me because I failed to
I was going to do I was going to pull
that in for some extra supplementary stuff, but well I
don't need to because I know you got it.
Speaker 1: So you have some pictures that you want to screen share,
So let's look at those real quick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to move over and all that. So
this is it's obvious way is screen sharing here? All right,
Jimmy sharing with you?
Speaker 1: Okay, while you're looking for that, I'm just going to
read a little bit about the Golden Ass. So it
was called the Metaphorphosis of Apellius, which Augustine Hippo referred
to as the gold An Ass. So this is basically
the same kind of story. What year was this from?
Second century? A? D oh, look at that Pinocchio?
Speaker 2: Okay, am I still here on screen?
Speaker 1: Yeah? You're here, I can see you.
Speaker 5: All right?
Speaker 2: Cool?
Speaker 1: What is this from?
Speaker 2: Okay? So this is well, do you want to do
this now or later? Because I just kind of got
a bunch of beautiful art I wanted to share with
the chat.
Speaker 1: Let's see, I have I have three more notes about
the movie, and then I had the mind control section
and then.
Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna stop sharing right now. Then we'll
pull this back up.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, all I wanted to say was, yeah,
this comes from a second century esoteric tale called the
Golden Ass. It's the same kind of story, like the
more bad decisions you make, the more best deal you become.
And this is the symbol of the upside down pentagram.
Speaker 2: So in that too. There's a book that Mary Louise
van Franz. She was a union analyst. She did is
called there's something about the Golden Ass of Asclepias or something,
and I don't remember if it's that second century one
or a later one. But by the end of the story,
Lucius when he turns into an ass, eventually basically gets
girded where he like ascends up to heaven and he
meets the divine goddess and all this stuff, And I
don't remember if he's still an ass at that point.
With the point is it's an absolutely like kind of
the Luciferian track of like the descent and the mammalady
and then the ascension through that sort of like sexual
fusing with the animal. You know, it's it's crazy, it's
it's worth the reading, and it's about two. It ties
into stuff that I don't have the time or energy
or care to but sort of the golden Peter pan
Puei turnus eternal child type of thing is also linked
to the ascent to be the child forever and to
fly to everyland is also linked with that descent into
like animal love.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting animal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's because there's two are sort of like extreme
ends of the same spectrum.
Speaker 1: Well, the only other things I had about the movie
was that. Meanwhile, Geppetto is in the belly of Monstro,
so he is, you know, in his katabasis.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: The only thing that saves him as a mystical message
comes to tell Pinocchio his father has been swallowed by
a whale. They set far uh huh.
Speaker 2: I like that part when Jimmy Cricket gets him out
of Pleasure Island because he's such a true homie dude.
He's not judging Pinocchio, he's not trying something like a
true friend, you know, and I just love it. He
doesn't condemn him. He just says, let's go, Pinocchi, let's
get out of here. Like he just looks over it all.
It's like that's what you want, you know, when you
fall into sin, you don't want to be like reprimanded.
It's like, dude's not the time to lay into me, please,
I need some love.
Speaker 1: So well he did that when he saved him from
Stromboli too. He was like, maybe I should just go
say goodbye, and then he realized and he was actually captured.
But yeah, he's a good little conscience. So yeah, the
fire escapes them from Monstro, and so Pinocchio sacrificed himself
and earned his humanity. He actually did die and come
back to life, so he did a you know, a
Jesus thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he leaves on his Boat's got a cross
on it too, you notice. So it's like the cross
is the way for him to get out.
Speaker 4: It's great.
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't notice that, but yeah, that's pretty much
all I had notes on the So let's see something.
Speaker 2: Yeah. My final take on Pinocchio is, uh, it's interesting
because it's like we're are all born bound for death,
but Pinocchio is born to live.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like he's not you know what I means, Like
we're all born, we have so much a mount of
time and then we go down on the whole. Pinocchio
is born already dead. His only journey is to ascend
into more life. So it's a beautiful sort of I
don't know, idea of the baptism in the New Life,
and I just kind of liked it. It's like Pinocchio
almost as a trajectory. He's born to become somebody wonderful
and that, you know, until he's a real person, he's
trapped in the world of laws and rules and do
this and be a good boy, and he's very much
in that tree of knowledge of good or evil. He
doesn't yet have the Tree of life, so Pinocchio needs
the Tree of life. Was as we all do. So anyways,
this is a This is this some art I got
for us our Pinocchio Little journey because I was just
like blown away the beauty of this movie. I think
snow White. So here's a sort of comparison of sketches
and paintings. He's gonna roll through and if there's something
you really like, just to stop and huver over it. Okay,
there he is beautiful drawings emotion. But yeah, snow White
was a great film. Obviously, it's very much like the
Oldsney shorts where Pinocchio really takes it to the next level.
Here's Uncle Wall.
Speaker 1: So this is the multiple a rotoscope.
Speaker 2: This is the multiplane camera. Actually, so I have a
shot here, I'll show you how it works. Brilliant. So
Disney invented this machine in order to do things like this.
This video is at sixty frames, so it's faster than
the regular It should be about ten seconds slower. But
there's one frame, I'm sorry, one plane of the camera.
The bridge we're going to push back into another plane
the camera off to the right, put back through that
another plane to the building. So that's three planes and
now we've hit the background. Oh wait, actually we haven't.
There's another plane. So that's five layers of anime of
cells that are painted and then with the animation on
the bottom layer. So you can see how it works
like this.
Speaker 1: That's so crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't that awesome?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: You can see.
Speaker 1: I mean, anybody who watches this opening sequence has got
to just be like, how did they even?
Speaker 2: Jay?
Speaker 1: And you were like, how did they do that?
Speaker 2: It's unsurpassed to this day. I think in terms of
the old Disney movies, this is the best. It's so good,
it's so beautiful. Everyone's operating a top top form. And
I think after this one hundred one Dalmatians actually is
like a masterclass in color design. Hearing my favorite shot.
Speaker 1: Oh poor thing, he's like.
Speaker 2: An animal man. Look at that? Oh cute? All right,
So here's just some dope d I mean, all this
never saw the light of day, you know, I mean,
it does not, but this is just for design and
look at this dynamic. That's how he knows. This is
the other good artists because like this Pinocchio, every single thing,
I can't get it centered. He's got so many different
motions going on. His left hand is moving this way,
his right hand is balanced like this. This one's moving out,
this one's moving out. His eyes are moving this way,
and so like even something is static. Is this super dynamic? Brilliant,
brilliant Thomas John.
Speaker 1: Key Hall The underwater scene I really enjoyed too, when
he first submerges and he's walked. Yeah, that one where
he's walking with the rock tied to his tail. I
love that. A little sea horses, Yeah, that was memorable.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, go ahead, I remember.
Speaker 1: Jimmy Cricket like riding on a sea horse.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And those guys spent a year figuring out how
to do water and just spent a whole year animating.
I mean, it's crazy the amount of work that went
into this stuff. This was never used. I thought this
was an interesting I don't know where this came from.
I wish I knew more about it, But the tree
part of the story that I got them midded. Jimminy
apparently had a long time, you know. I mean, even
as as antenna, they make them look like hairs very
very good character design. He's a cricket, you know, he's ugly,
so the fact they made him look like such a
human is interesting. That way that Disney uh animates and
anthropomorphizes everything, kind of like we've talked about relationships about
the animism stuff.
Speaker 1: There he is, who is Coachman?
Speaker 2: Great line work.
Speaker 1: Do you have the black blobs?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: Actually, I didn't see any black glob drawings and like
behind the scenes stuff.
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the most like unspoken and
creepiest things about the movie that when I watch it,
nobody ever references those guys.
Speaker 2: What are they? I mean? There was just so much
going on in this little sketch here is brilliant, especially
this one down here is getting ring all right, let's
keep rolling? Oh come on, man, I mean cat? Oh hey? Oh?
Speaker 1: Is that from the Toys puppet?
Speaker 2: Huh? So that's interesting the way they tried to like
do this sexuality through even the puppet. They kind of
lean into this this one here sharks, Well, that's really cool.
Speaker 1: Is this from a book or what is this from?
Speaker 2: Yeah? These are from the art of Pinocchio and some
character Even though I don't know the way they figured
out every character. This is beautiful about any iconic art
in general. You can tell who somebody is by a
silhouette alone. You know, you can tell us Batman in
Pinocchio right away. So these are some drawings that would
have actually been animated that then the anchors would be
over later and do better. But this is actually would
be finished drawings you would see in the movie. Maybe not.
That one's pretty loose. There's is a real boy. She
is our Columbia lady.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: The smoking scene, oh lampe.
Speaker 1: That's classic. Can we turn green from smoking?
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I know that feeling.
Speaker 1: Yea. They actually they did a really good job depicting
what it feels like to be like your head spinning
because you smoke too much.
Speaker 2: Oh kay, all right, check out these dudes. Okay, so
that's just some showing some motion lines. That's okay. But
look at this strung old right here.
Speaker 1: There's that Disney butt again.
Speaker 2: Hmm. I love this man. He's so good that act
that drawing, I mean, he's acting just a drawing. We
think it's real. It's crazy. Let's get back to that booty.
Speaker 1: Really good with the emotion capturing motion.
Speaker 2: Alright, let's keep rolling through it just a little. So
these are design sketches, storyboards. This is just a like,
this is just a sketch. Like this is like out
of Dutch. There's like a Dutch sketch from like the
Renaissance period. Dude, like, look at that incredible draftsmanship. She is.
There's a red lobster, black and white guash painting man,
very nice. A model, actual models they use to make
things more realistic. There they are.
Speaker 1: I wonder where that Pinocchio is. Yeah, right, but in
a Disney museum or like a Disneyland or something.
Speaker 2: I have a man himself, uncle Wall guy doing Strombolie.
So this they didn't quite rotoscope. They rotoscope the Blue Fairy,
but the other guys they just used for like character
reference is drawn due. It's like if I could draw
like this, like paint, get these beautiful watercolors concept art.
Speaker 1: It's really neat. Well that turned out a little different,
didn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, huh yeah, it's cool seeing how they they came
through us. So here we go. It is the like
pieta type of almost Carrier the Dead Christ. Yeah. I mean, man,
I can paint like this, Lord of Hubbell.
Speaker 1: Well that's really cool. Thank you, for showing us all
those things.
Speaker 2: Let's see you out here. Oh stop sharing, all right.
Speaker 1: Beautiful It sucks to use art to hurt people. No
beautiful things like that. Because the last thing I wanted
to talk about, I mean, I promised y'all it was
also MK Ultra And this is what nineteen forty nineteen
forty one, so right around the time that they are
doing all of these experiments in Germany and learning how
to split the mind and actually turn people into a puppet,
right or a mind control slave. And what do you know,
the cover of this book actually has what a little
marionette on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. That's a puppet, but it's also one
of those artists those drawing figures. Looks more one of
those ones, you know, and you buy those at Michael's
to like close Oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a model to look at anatomy. Yeah, so you've
got your puppet on a string. And I didn't know
where to look in this book, and this version doesn't
have a glossary or anything, so it's not the one
that I read originally, but I accidentally opened it right
to the perfect page talking about marionette programming, and it
says one of the names connected with Monarch programming is Mary.
The child literally becomes a marionette. This concept appears to
have been cooked up by Germans under Tiny Mustache Man
an altarsystem. As a child is physically shown that they
are a marionette puppet, their muscles are elector shocked in
such a way as to take advantage of the natural reflexes.
When elector's shocked that way, the victim's body parts jerk
out of control at the whim of the programmer to
prove to the victim they are a puppet. At this time,
the rules are given, and rule number eight is that
the Altars are their puppet. Illuminati programmer Doctor Mengela use
puppets in a dollhouse as he programmed, he did skits
with the puppets. Pinocchio's story was used to name the
spirit guy Jimmy Cricket. Along with rule number eight, he
taught the following rules. Listen to your instructions. There is
no room for error. He just goes on to say
these like different mind control script stuff or receive orders
your puppets on a string. All of this about basically
being a marionette controlled by a puppeteer.
Speaker 2: When was that document written.
Speaker 1: This book or what?
Speaker 2: Or what the excerpt you just read from.
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is Chrits Springmeyer Cisco Wheeler how to
create how the Illuminati create an undetectable mind control slave.
And this is some kind of publication that is not
original one.
Speaker 2: What you were reading was Springmire or was it? Uh? Okay,
those are his words? Gotcha?
Speaker 1: So this version actually does not have a publication date
at all.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: Who it's very yeah, underground stuff.
Speaker 2: Because if because I thought he was quoting documents that
the the Germans were using this so or even if not,
it's interesting that sort of that Pinocchio mythos was in
the ether in that time period, because it's not like
if they were doing this in the forties Pinocchio, I mean,
I guess they could have been influenced by it, or
it just would have been interesting if it happened in tandem.
Speaker 1: Well he yeah, he might have. If you're talking about
Nazi doctors and stuff, they might have the actual tale.
But the movie came out in nineteen forty and the
war didn't enduntil forty five, so they had like, you know,
about five years to toy with Occhio programming. But yeah,
now what I'm I see oz all of the stuff
we talk about. If you want conspiracy one oh one,
this is the book. But yeah, MK, ultra, gnosticism, Luciferianism,
what else? Hew, we got in Pinocchio.
Speaker 2: Seeds hopefully, seeds of God somewhere in there somewhere, some.
Speaker 1: Tales of virtue hopefully. But that's all my notes. And yeah, yeah,
I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think at the end of the day, Uh, I
guess I was thinking more. I mean, it's just like
the only thing I ever want to say is just
like what they all say is like just repent, come
to God like, do come focus on Christ like? And
so it's just interesting because I think so much of
the hero's myth the gnostic stuff, all the mythologies other
than ours, they're so caked within, like so unconsciously, like
have these presumptions in there, hidden hidden preconceptions of evolution,
the way the world's set up, that everything exists in
this power need for survival, whether it's survival to be
loving or survival of what you want, Like it's all
about survive. And it's like, I think it's like that's
not what's about all about Christ. It says like whatever
that means to you, it means survive, it means to
be a martyr, like whatever it is. But it's just
like I don't know. At the end of the day,
I get tired of watching this stuff because I always
have to fight so hard in my mind to try
to find God in there where there isn't I think,
And it's like I have to be like like but
then again, I don't know, because it's like, seriously, at
the end of the day, I sit in my room
and pray and it's like, all right, God, like you
have everything under control. So it's like, how do I, like,
how can I be so quick to judge things that
I don't even know?
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like job, It's like I don't know any of
these stuff I want to hear when anything happens. I
don't know how to pump my blood. I don't know
how many hairs are on my head, Like I don't
know anything, you know. So it's like, hopefully I can
find good in this. But in the meantime it helps
to kind of know the lay of the land. And
it's like this symbolism is pretty pretty hard to dismiss.
Speaker 1: Too, so yeah, yeah, you can't really ignore it when
it's that blatant. The symbolism is that obvious. So let's
just take the last couple of minutes and catch us
up about where you're at, what you're doing, and what
we're going to do next.
Speaker 2: Sure cool, Thanks Jamie, Thanks for everyone hanging out tonight. Yeah,
I'm still at saying Tecon's Monastery. I just finished my
first year of the Iconography Institute. So first icon. So
this is my first icon I painted this year. Great
glaring here, Yeah, amazing, wonderful. I mean it's like, thank you,
thank you very much. Most of what I got to
choose was the coloring. Most of what we did is
we like traced, but I mean, you're still a painting
everything you're doing in my hand. But we had a
prototype because this was really just learning how to apply
egg temper, how to make it work, how to actually
move the paint around, how to varnish it and all that.
So you know, I'm looking forward to seeing how my
style will develop as I paint or icons. But yeah,
so this year I actually have a blessing to paint
one more icon with THEO Tokos this semester, so I guess
somebody wants to they want to contact me, I can
do one pretty cheap, under five hundred dollars because I'm
still new. So anyways, reach out if you like an
icon one only now and then yeah, I'll be here
till we'll see what happens. But for our show next,
Tina's all back into we're talking about tonight watch Hunchback.
We'll be back in a few days. And it is
not a Christian story, We'll just put it that way,
despite taking place very much in a Christian worldview. That's
why I was really curious to do this movie, and
I think it'll be a great one just to sort
of finish the Disney saga on because it's like the
most overtly Christian Christian movie Disney's made.
Speaker 1: Uh huh, well, very good. I'm excited to do Hunchback,
like you said, in a couple of days, and we
are going to be doing mid Street cults also, and
we donut and you and I are going to be
doing a new series art in iconsography, yeah and all
of that stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I thought i'd just kind of It's one
of those things like being becoming an iconographer. It's like
I'm not an ordained person when I'm not a priest,
not a monk or anything like that, but there's such
this reality of like immersing yourself in it that I
gotta focus. I'm just I'm choosing to focus more on
that these days. And I thought, well, I'd hate to
leave the show forever. We have such a good time
out here, so what will we do. It's like adjacent,
So we're gonna do art, iconography, spirituality of modern art,
and kind of all things around hovering around that.
Speaker 1: Okay, awesome, Well we'll see you in not too long
with Hunchback of Notre Dame. Everybody, have a good night night,