WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:04.360 It's Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm tell you easy 2 00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:07.000 Boston News Radio right out. 3 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:10.240 Thanks a lot. I appreciate it, Garian for Daan. Tonight's 4 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:12.800 still to come on the show. We're going to talk 5 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:16.359 to the great Sam Metler. We'll discuss the world of politics, 6 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:19.039 what's going on now that Harris is definitely in. I 7 00:00:19.079 --> 00:00:20.480 still say it would have been more fun to have 8 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:23.359 a convention, but nobody listens to me. That's all right, 9 00:00:23.879 --> 00:00:26.879 But boy, she caught up quick with Trump. I think, hey, 10 00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:29.600 as we'll talk to Sam about that. It was great 11 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:31.600 to have my buddy Rich Kimba Lahan talking about the 12 00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:34.759 education of our youth and some of the things that 13 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:37.799 we need to change. Trendy Casey, my old friend from 14 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:42.520 NBC Sports talking about the Olympics. But right now we 15 00:00:42.600 --> 00:00:46.159 are going to talk about a documentary, Unseen Innocence. It's 16 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:49.079 about the wrongful murder conviction of Lionel Ray Ray Williams, 17 00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:52.920 who was sentenced to fifty one years to life in 18 00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:55.560 March of nineteen seventy nine for the death of a 19 00:00:55.600 --> 00:01:00.719 Hollywood actor, Salmoneo. The film is directed by Letitia McIntosh 20 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:03.119 uh and Ray Ray Williams is going to join us 21 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:05.879 as well along with Letitia. Thank you for joining us 22 00:01:05.879 --> 00:01:07.359 here on WBC's Night Side. 23 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:10.000 Oh, thank you so much for having us. 24 00:01:10.200 --> 00:01:15.079 Well, we appreciate thank you, thank you. We appreciate that. So, 25 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:18.599 mister Williams, you prefer to go by Ray Ray or 26 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:19.159 Lionel or. 27 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:25.400 Ray, I'd rather go by Ray. I've been called that 28 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:26.159 all my life. 29 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.840 Okay, Ray Ray sounds good to me. We appreciate that. So, 30 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:37.959 I mean, unfortunately, this story isn't unique around the world 31 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:40.640 or in the United States, but it's a story that 32 00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:46.319 we need to continue to tell. So Letitia, tell us 33 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:48.359 how you became involved in this project. 34 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:54.120 So I went to a film school program. I wanted 35 00:01:54.120 --> 00:01:58.640 to learn how to animate my training videos. And when 36 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:03.239 I went to that film school program, I actually directed 37 00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:07.280 a music video for a Southern soul artist and that 38 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:11.479 Southern soul artist manager tried to book him in mister 39 00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:16.400 Williams Motorcycle Club. And that's how I got introduced to him. 40 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:18.280 When they called me on the phone and they told 41 00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:21.000 me about his story, and I said, let me research 42 00:02:21.039 --> 00:02:22.919 it a little bit. And then when I researched it, 43 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:24.919 I was like, okay, I would I would like to 44 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:26.080 help you tell your story. 45 00:02:26.840 --> 00:02:31.560 So if you can summarize his story for us, so in. 46 00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:35.400 A nutshell, mister Williams was sentenced fifty one years for 47 00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:42.319 the murder of Salvatory Mineo Junior. He actually so, yep, 48 00:02:42.439 --> 00:02:46.240 it was every unsolved robbery and the murder that happened 49 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:49.360 in that area in that in that time period around 50 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:57.199 that area. And so mister Mineo essentially was basically railroaded 51 00:02:57.319 --> 00:02:59.840 like so many people are. He was put into him 52 00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:04.199 a position where they follow this formula of where there's 53 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:12.240 eyewitness testimony. Then they're incentivizing people to testify and they 54 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:15.560 give them, you know, either time off, you know, they 55 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:18.560 give them money or something like that, and then you 56 00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:22.840 may have prosecutorial misconduct as well as police miss conduct 57 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:26.840 that occurs. And so he was a victim of that. 58 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:27.800 That's basically why happen. 59 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:31.719 It's so crazy because if you watch the trailer, and 60 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:33.400 you should check out the trailer, you can check that 61 00:03:33.479 --> 00:03:38.680 out on YouTube. Again Unseen Innocence, And I mean, we're 62 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:42.280 not talking about nineteen fifty nine. We're not talking about 63 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:45.520 nineteen forty nine. We're not talking about nineteen thirty nine 64 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:48.280 and the Jim Crow South. You know, we're talking about 65 00:03:48.280 --> 00:03:52.039 like nineteen eighty you know, I mean, we're talking about 66 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:56.639 to me what I considered to be contemporary times. Where 67 00:03:56.680 --> 00:04:00.280 as you point out as ray ray you said, and 68 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:06.080 right in the trailer, that witness has said that the 69 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:08.800 person they saw walking away from the scene of the 70 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:10.439 crime was white. 71 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:13.400 What was just? 72 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:16.560 And there was what the ray ray? There were three? 73 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:17.759 There was four people. 74 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:19.319 Four people. Run it down for me. 75 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:25.120 It was four eyewitnesses, all of them are white. One 76 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:27.399 was a nine year old girl who witnessed the murder 77 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:31.720 under her window watching her mother back out the driveway. Uh. 78 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:38.240 It was another guy uh in the next apartments. Uh 79 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:44.000 was was a witness to the everything for him driving up, 80 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:49.720 getting out of his car and getting killed. You know, 81 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:56.279 he witnessed everything, and he was never used at trial. 82 00:04:57.399 --> 00:05:00.879 He was never called. Why you don't call him eyewitness 83 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:09.319 that saw everything to court? Why did they hide this man? 84 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:12.720 I'm gonna tell you what they did. They used someone 85 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:17.160 else in his place. They brought in a grown man 86 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:23.720 that said that the murderer bumped into him and got 87 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:28.839 into his car. But the seventeen year old kid who 88 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:31.480 was supposed to be in that courtroom was never there. 89 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:36.480 And the murder. So the grown man said, you were 90 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:37.160 the murderer. 91 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:46.759 No, oh, no, no, I've been researching, he said, one 92 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:51.519 in the bushes. In the bushes, but it was only 93 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:57.040 one white person. Anybody who got in that car. There 94 00:05:57.120 --> 00:05:59.879 was only one person they got in that car. All 95 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:08.360 the witnesses, the security guard, uh, and the man walking 96 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:12.000 the dog and the lady backing out said that it 97 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:15.560 was a white person. Well, let me tell you something though. 98 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:20.519 You know, in most cases, hold up. I believe in 99 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:26.160 every case, when when you got an eyewitness to a 100 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:30.000 well find crime like this, what do you think that 101 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:35.160 the DA should ask that person, that eyewitness? What do 102 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:37.600 you think the first thing they should ask that person? 103 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:42.639 Who did you see in the scene of the crime? 104 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:44.120 Or are you racist? 105 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:46.560 No? I'm not racist? 106 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:49.680 No, no, no, you no, no, I understand that what 107 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:51.600 you should do? You asking me what the first question 108 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:52.000 should be? 109 00:06:52.839 --> 00:06:55.480 The first thing the d A or an attorney asked 110 00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:59.879 an eyewitness to a crime, do you see that person 111 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:04.519 in the court room? They never asked that question. 112 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:09.439 But I don't. I don't this whole thing. Look, I 113 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:11.680 just don't get it. Like I understand what you're saying 114 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:13.800 is the truth, And I'm gonna try to We're gonna 115 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:17.800 get into like why this happens, because to me, it 116 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:20.600 just seems to be easier on the taxpayer dollar to 117 00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:24.519 listen to the witnesses and to just get this done 118 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:28.240 quicker in court. It seems to be more complicated to 119 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:30.720 put an innocent man in jail, is what I'm saying. 120 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:36.040 So I don't understand it. We'll continue the conversation. Unseen Innocence, UH, 121 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:40.720 the murder, the wrongful murder conviction of Lionel Railway Williams. 122 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:42.759 I tried to say more than this coming up on 123 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:43.759 night Side right after this. 124 00:07:46.199 --> 00:07:49.160 Now back to Dan Ray Live from the Window World 125 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:53.000 night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio. 126 00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:56.240 Garry Tangae filling it for Dan Ray tonight. Unseen Innocence 127 00:07:56.399 --> 00:07:59.079 the documentary about a manage centers through fifty one years 128 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:01.800 for a murder he did not commit. Unseen Innocence is 129 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:04.199 not just a documentary, it is a call to action 130 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:07.399 and the film was directed Yeah, the film was directed 131 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:13.680 by Letitia McIntosh and it talks about the just the 132 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:17.560 tragic situation situation. Ray Ray Williams is also our guest 133 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:20.560 who was convicted for fifty one years to life for 134 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.759 a murder and could not have committed that he did 135 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:27.079 not commit it, that he did not commit it. 136 00:08:27.399 --> 00:08:29.720 And it also says right here, I couldn't have committed it. 137 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:31.000 I couldn't have done it. 138 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:35.679 Well, right here it says, as I was reading Hollywood 139 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:41.679 actor sal Mineo's tragic murder, eyewitnesses described a five foot 140 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:45.279 nine white man with blondehair as the perpetrator, yet a 141 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:48.200 black man standing five to five with a large afro. 142 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:50.639 And I saw the video you had a large afro. 143 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:54.080 Sir found himself convicted and sentenced to fifty one years. 144 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:56.720 He has always maintained his innocence and he is fighting 145 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:00.080 to clear his name. So Letitia, can you do you 146 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:05.600 find a reason why he was wrongly convicted and why 147 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:10.080 the police did not take the evidence that was right 148 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:12.240 in front of them, you. 149 00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:15.600 Know, and not living in that time and being being 150 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:17.759 a child myself, I can't say. I can't get into 151 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:20.159 the minds, but we know the way this country was 152 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:22.679 and the way things were going, and it happens right 153 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:26.039 now to this very day. You know, we're really dealing 154 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:31.799 with wrongful convictions and people who are unjustly convicted of crimes. 155 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:34.000 The one thing that I really wanted to do was 156 00:09:34.039 --> 00:09:36.720 help mister Williams tell his story. When he talked to me, 157 00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:39.600 he said, I was no angel, but I did not 158 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:43.879 do this. And the biggest thing is giving him an 159 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:49.240 opportunity to separate his legacy from being the person who 160 00:09:49.399 --> 00:09:53.600 was convicted and accused of killing Salmonio. So that because 161 00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:56.320 what's on the internet, you know, being an it person, 162 00:09:56.759 --> 00:09:59.080 I know that it will never go away, but at 163 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:01.639 least now you can combat a lot of the wrong 164 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:04.480 information that was fed to the media. A lot of 165 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:06.720 the information that you guys are going to look up 166 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:09.679 and see that information was information that was fed to 167 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:12.519 the media. That was probably what they wanted to do 168 00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:15.519 just to close the case. That's the closest thing I 169 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:16.080 can think of. 170 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:18.799 But that's just to say Ms Macintosh, sure you know, 171 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:21.240 I hear you. I mean, I got it. But Ray, Ray, 172 00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:24.039 maybe you can help me out here. The easiest thing 173 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:26.000 to close the case would have been to listen to 174 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:26.679 the witnesses. 175 00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:29.399 Yeah, that's what I don't get. 176 00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:32.159 So I mean, in pure racism, I guess is I'm 177 00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:35.440 trying to look for an answer that's beyond pure racism, 178 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:36.720 and I don't know if there is. 179 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:41.600 One it is not. So that's what it is, pure racism, 180 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:44.480 you know, to get rid of you know, they you know, 181 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:47.159 they just wanted to get rid of us, you know, 182 00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:52.080 by all means necessary, you know, uh, get get someone 183 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:55.519 to come to Gort and lie. You know, you know, 184 00:10:55.720 --> 00:10:59.559 don't don't don't believe in the eyewitnesses. Believe in my witnesses, 185 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:04.039 because the eyewitnesses a lion. That's the way I got it, 186 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:10.960 you know, because you know, the jury should have believed 187 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:15.879 what the eyewitness has said instead of what the DA 188 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:17.320 witnesses said. 189 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:22.399 Him all the way around. I mean, when I listen 190 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:24.879 to mister Williams tell the story, when I look at 191 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:27.039 what happens when he's the only one who was in 192 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:29.679 the court and he's the one that has the court documents, 193 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:34.600 he has his inmate copies of the trial records, and 194 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:38.000 all the information that's on the media is not what 195 00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:41.080 he has in his records. And so that's the biggest 196 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:43.960 thing for him to clear his name, is for him 197 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:46.000 to have the opportunity to get in front of the 198 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:48.679 right people. That's why we want people to buy the book, 199 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:52.240 because if you buy the books Unseen Innocence, then the 200 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:55.200 name off one years to life. But you can buy 201 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:57.919 the book at Unseen Innocence dot Com. You'll get an 202 00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:01.320 opportunity to walk the walk that heat as he's explains 203 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:04.919 how everything happened to him in court, how they utilized 204 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:08.759 his seventeen year old wife, how they utilized people who 205 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:12.159 were supposedly friends, How they utilize all those type of 206 00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:15.799 people to you know, testify against them, and then Railroad 207 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:17.600 and him in so many different ways, you know. 208 00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:20.759 Did they use let Teacha, How did they use his 209 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:22.679 seventeen year old wife and his friends? 210 00:12:23.799 --> 00:12:26.200 Would they had her say that he came home covered 211 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:28.519 in blood, and they had another guy say that he 212 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:31.399 came home and said that he killed how many of them? 213 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:34.639 And then they they that's the type of stuff that 214 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:36.440 they were putting out. They had all kinds of nonsense. 215 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:40.200 But so what did they Why did his wife say that? 216 00:12:40.679 --> 00:12:43.559 What did they they must have they gave her? Did 217 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:45.200 they bribe her? Did they threaten her? 218 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:46.679 They threatened her? 219 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:50.960 They threatened her, and she had gotten herself in some trouble, 220 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:54.879 and she had they had children, they were married, that 221 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:58.879 they had children, and then they used that and held 222 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:02.559 that over her head, you know, so that they could 223 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:03.559 so they were they were. 224 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:05.159 Going to threaten to take away the kids. 225 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:06.000 Exactly. 226 00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:08.120 Yeah, okay, that's what it was. 227 00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:11.440 She wound up shooting herself in the head. She didn't 228 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:13.840 commit suicide, but she did shoot herself in the head 229 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:17.039 because of the pressure that she was under from those 230 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:21.799 police officers at that time. So she lived, she did live, 231 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:22.960 and she's still alive now. 232 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:26.840 Wow. So it was an attempted suicide. 233 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:31.080 No, she tried. She she she shot herself with her 234 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:36.279 twenty two and it you know, so you know she 235 00:13:36.279 --> 00:13:40.600 she she lived, twenty two is not going to do 236 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:44.720 that much damaged close range, Okay, So you know, so 237 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:47.799 it went in, went in her head, but it took 238 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:50.720 a piece of her ear off, went in her head. 239 00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:53.759 She went blind for a while and then she got 240 00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:56.840 her eyesight back and then So how did. 241 00:13:56.679 --> 00:13:59.840 The circumstances point to you? Were you in the vicinity 242 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:03.720 of the crime at the time? No, okay, So where 243 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:06.200 were you when this, when this murder, when this murder 244 00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:09.639 and when this whole crime went down? Where were you? 245 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:13.159 I was that my brother does how many miles a well? 246 00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:19.960 Uh, I could say it was thirty five minutes away 247 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:21.519 from the murder scene. 248 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:23.720 Okay. So how did they finger you for this? 249 00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:26.720 The yellow car? 250 00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:28.679 The yellow car? 251 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:31.200 Okay, explain can you explain it to me, Letitia? 252 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:34.279 Well, Ray Ray could explain it to you better, but 253 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:36.159 I can tell you the next show. What happened was 254 00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:39.960 the Sheriff's office put out a message saying that if 255 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:44.039 anybody had, you know, knows anything about a yellow car 256 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:46.759 being loaned or rented or anything. So Ray Ray says 257 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:50.559 that O'Connor Lincoln, which is where he rented this yellow 258 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:55.840 car from Yellow he rented a yellow Dodge Colt because 259 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:58.720 he had a car that wasn't working that he bought 260 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:01.440 from them, and they gave him that as a loaner, 261 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:04.240 and he had that car. He said that the car 262 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:07.840 had some technical issues, some mechanical issues. He wound up 263 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:10.200 returning the car to them. He didn't even have the 264 00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:14.480 car that long. However, there was a yellow car that 265 00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:19.600 was seen by the eyewitnesses that the perpetrator got into. However, 266 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:22.840 it was a yellow Toyota. And the reason why we 267 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:25.799 know for sure it's a yellow Toyota is because when 268 00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:30.039 the prosecutor was talking to the eyewitness, he asked him 269 00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:32.720 about the car several times, and he said, are you sure. 270 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:34.279 Do you think it's a yellow He said, I know 271 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:40.120 it's a yellow Toyota because my brother has the same car. 272 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:43.799 Would it have been so hard to actually run down 273 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:46.720 so what they did. So it seems to me what 274 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:49.840 happened here is that the first yellow car they found, 275 00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:50.919 they said this is the guy. 276 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:57.480 Yeah, basically basically built the case around when they finally 277 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:00.480 got When they finally got around to me, I was 278 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:04.360 on my way being extradited to Michigan the Battle Creek 279 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.080 to face charges out there, and they came to see 280 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:14.240 me right before I was extradited. And they came and saying, uh, 281 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.320 uh I had a yellow car. I said, yeah, I 282 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:18.879 had a yellow car, you know. They say what kind 283 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:21.720 of car was it? I said, uh, I had a 284 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:25.200 dodge coat. You said, he shured, wasn't a Tyota? Nos 285 00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:29.000 dodge coat and uh. And they asked me, did I 286 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:31.480 loaned the car to any of my white friends? I 287 00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:35.480 said no, I had the car returned back, uh to 288 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:38.159 Old Conn of Lincoln before the It was nightfall, So 289 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:38.720 you had. 290 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:40.639 The car returned before the crime took place. 291 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:48.279 Yeah, yeah, Jesus, yeah, his wife check this out. The 292 00:16:48.759 --> 00:16:54.799 they when they brought the rental agreement back into court. 293 00:16:54.919 --> 00:16:59.919 You know, Uh, I never noticed, but the knowledge going 294 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:05.279 going out because I didn't bought vehicles from these people before. 295 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:08.880 They always put the miles going out and the miles 296 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:13.839 coming in. The miles coming in is not on the 297 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:20.759 paper Why Why because it would have proved, because it 298 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:24.359 would have proved that the mouse that I put on 299 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:28.160 there would have been from O'Connor Lincoln to my mother's 300 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:32.400 house on ninety third normany you know, and it wouldn't 301 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:35.519 have been no more extra miles from from there to 302 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:41.079 Western Shirt plus to Hollywood. No, those miles wouldn't have never. 303 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:44.160 It wouldn't have added up. 304 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:45.000 Right. 305 00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:48.039 What about the time could what about the time that 306 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:49.000 you returned the car? 307 00:17:50.359 --> 00:17:53.799 No, the car was returned right, So it. 308 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:56.079 Wasn't The time that you returned the car was not 309 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:57.119 on the paperwork. 310 00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:00.119 None of that wasn't It wasn't none, none of what 311 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:01.240 we're doing the paperwork. 312 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:03.920 What was the charge about a pret sure? 313 00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:06.039 Uh? 314 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:10.480 Forger okay, So you're past like you said, you were 315 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:13.440 not an angel, but you were never a violent man. 316 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:18.640 No, you know, I ain't no pump. You know, I 317 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:23.519 ain't nothing soft about me. But uh, you know, I 318 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:25.480 ain't no killer, right, So. 319 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:27.920 I don't understand the motive here. So what they're saying 320 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:31.200 is that you killed him for money. 321 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:36.119 And I had a money and you what, look, look 322 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:39.400 I was I was selling dope. I was a drug dealer, 323 00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:41.920 and I was a pimp, you know what I'm saying. 324 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:43.440 So I was getting my money from a lot of 325 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:46.680 different angles. You know, I didn't need to go out 326 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:50.319 on the street and rob people for pocket change. You know, 327 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:54.079 if I was gonna be the person to rob some something, 328 00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:57.880 I'm gonna rob a jewelry store, I'm gonna rob a credigion, 329 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:00.359 I'm gonna rob something with some money at you know, 330 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:03.960 I'm not. I wouldn't waste my time on street robbers. 331 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:05.680 How much you gonna get out of a person's pocket 332 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:09.519 twenty five thirty bucks back then, ain't no money? 333 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:12.480 I mean, so r what was the crime? And we 334 00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:14.680 was the guy that was was sal outside his home 335 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:18.759 and this person just killed him for money? Or was 336 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:20.119 there something else going on here? 337 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:26.680 Unless he got paid to kill that man? He didn't ask, 338 00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:30.160 He didn't have no conversation with Salmony. Them from the 339 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:33.759 eyewood from the seventeen year old, he said that the 340 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:38.480 man just walked up to him kidding. He went down. 341 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.839 He ran down the alley. There was no conversation, give 342 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:44.759 me your money, give me your watch, what's in your wallet, 343 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:50.160 what's in your briefcase? None of that. That man was 344 00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:55.039 sent there to kill him for a reason, so he killed. 345 00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:58.279 I don't know, Jerry. Let me clarify something for you. 346 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:02.359 So Rayway had mentioned you about the man walking the dogs. 347 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:05.720 So here's what I discovered in Ray Ray's paperwork. There 348 00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:09.079 was a man. His name was Stephen Gustison. He went 349 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:12.599 in front of the grand jury. Now I found Stephen 350 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.079 Gustinson and asked him if we could interview him. When 351 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:17.759 we interviewed him, I said, mister gustuson, how come you 352 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:19.640 never pointed Ray Ray out in court? He said, I 353 00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:21.519 never went to court, And I was like, what do 354 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:23.200 you mean? I was like, he was like, I only 355 00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:26.079 testified in front of the grand jury. However, in Ray 356 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:31.599 Ray's official inmate copies, there is a Stephen Gustison that 357 00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:35.720 testified in court, and Ray Ray remembers a grown man 358 00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:40.599 in court Crosine. However, Stephen Gustinson was only seventeen years old. 359 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:44.480 He was a child's actor from the Electric Company days. 360 00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:47.359 That's and so we believe they hit him out. And 361 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:50.720 so somebody else testified in the court, but with my 362 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:54.720 doctor Hennery. Mister Gustinson says, I was standing there with 363 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:57.160 my dog about fifty feet away on the other side 364 00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:59.480 of the fence. I saw sal many old drive up 365 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:03.079 Parkers car, get out his car, walk past the first 366 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:05.599 and the first entrance and into the second entrance where 367 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:09.759 his apartment is. He said, the person ran into him, 368 00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:13.680 hit him once, took off, and he said, I couldn't 369 00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:16.279 even see him. He ran into the darkness. He was 370 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:18.279 like in sw Minyo, hit the ground, and then I 371 00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:20.559 saw the bucket of blood just coming out of him. 372 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:24.480 The blood was just coming out. And so at that 373 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:27.960 point that was when the other white, white witnesses said 374 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:30.119 that they saw a white man. The nine year old 375 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:32.680 girl saw a white man run past her window. The 376 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:35.279 security guard who was by where the car was parked, 377 00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:36.960 he saw the white man hop. 378 00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:39.400 Into the car and take her mother saw the man 379 00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:40.480 run past her car. 380 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:43.480 So hold on, folks, So why was there a robbery 381 00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:45.000 charge if there was no robbery. 382 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:46.839 There was no robbery. 383 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:52.440 It was no robbery doing you. The whole case is illegal. 384 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:56.279 Right, But what I'm saying there's no robbery. But yeah, Ray, 385 00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:57.799 I just want to make sure. I want to make 386 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:00.119 sure everybody understands. I want to make sure everybody It 387 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.079 says the witnesses that there was no robbery, there was 388 00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:06.279 no money taken from sal But you were charged with 389 00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:08.519 murder and robbery. 390 00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:12.039 Okay, murder and rob but not the robbery of Salmonio. 391 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:16.400 They didn't convict him of the robbery of salmon. 392 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:22.839 I got found not guilty of the robbery. Ye. 393 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:25.799 Well, yeah, because there was none. Okay, So we're telling 394 00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:30.079 me that Salmonio died by one punch. 395 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:33.839 One hit in the heart. Whoever, they didn't know what 396 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:34.440 they were doing. 397 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:38.839 Yeah, So okay, So you think this person was way 398 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:40.400 taller than me and. 399 00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:44.559 Obviously much whiter, right, and blond Yeah, and blonde hair. 400 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:46.599 I mean you couldn't. I mean, listen, Ray, you couldn't 401 00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:50.119