Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm tell you easy
Speaker 1: Boston News Radio right out.
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot. I appreciate it, Garian for Daan. Tonight's
Speaker 2: still to come on the show. We're going to talk
Speaker 2: to the great Sam Metler. We'll discuss the world of politics,
Speaker 2: what's going on now that Harris is definitely in. I
Speaker 2: still say it would have been more fun to have
Speaker 2: a convention, but nobody listens to me. That's all right,
Speaker 2: But boy, she caught up quick with Trump. I think, hey,
Speaker 2: as we'll talk to Sam about that. It was great
Speaker 2: to have my buddy Rich Kimba Lahan talking about the
Speaker 2: education of our youth and some of the things that
Speaker 2: we need to change. Trendy Casey, my old friend from
Speaker 2: NBC Sports talking about the Olympics. But right now we
Speaker 2: are going to talk about a documentary, Unseen Innocence. It's
Speaker 2: about the wrongful murder conviction of Lionel Ray Ray Williams,
Speaker 2: who was sentenced to fifty one years to life in
Speaker 2: March of nineteen seventy nine for the death of a
Speaker 2: Hollywood actor, Salmoneo. The film is directed by Letitia McIntosh
Speaker 2: uh and Ray Ray Williams is going to join us
Speaker 2: as well along with Letitia. Thank you for joining us
Speaker 2: here on WBC's Night Side.
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 2: Well, we appreciate thank you, thank you. We appreciate that. So,
Speaker 2: mister Williams, you prefer to go by Ray Ray or
Speaker 2: Lionel or.
Speaker 4: Ray, I'd rather go by Ray. I've been called that
Speaker 4: all my life.
Speaker 2: Okay, Ray Ray sounds good to me. We appreciate that. So,
Speaker 2: I mean, unfortunately, this story isn't unique around the world
Speaker 2: or in the United States, but it's a story that
Speaker 2: we need to continue to tell. So Letitia, tell us
Speaker 2: how you became involved in this project.
Speaker 3: So I went to a film school program. I wanted
Speaker 3: to learn how to animate my training videos. And when
Speaker 3: I went to that film school program, I actually directed
Speaker 3: a music video for a Southern soul artist and that
Speaker 3: Southern soul artist manager tried to book him in mister
Speaker 3: Williams Motorcycle Club. And that's how I got introduced to him.
Speaker 3: When they called me on the phone and they told
Speaker 3: me about his story, and I said, let me research
Speaker 3: it a little bit. And then when I researched it,
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, I would I would like to
Speaker 3: help you tell your story.
Speaker 2: So if you can summarize his story for us, so in.
Speaker 3: A nutshell, mister Williams was sentenced fifty one years for
Speaker 3: the murder of Salvatory Mineo Junior. He actually so, yep,
Speaker 3: it was every unsolved robbery and the murder that happened
Speaker 3: in that area in that in that time period around
Speaker 3: that area. And so mister Mineo essentially was basically railroaded
Speaker 3: like so many people are. He was put into him
Speaker 3: a position where they follow this formula of where there's
Speaker 3: eyewitness testimony. Then they're incentivizing people to testify and they
Speaker 3: give them, you know, either time off, you know, they
Speaker 3: give them money or something like that, and then you
Speaker 3: may have prosecutorial misconduct as well as police miss conduct
Speaker 3: that occurs. And so he was a victim of that.
Speaker 3: That's basically why happen.
Speaker 2: It's so crazy because if you watch the trailer, and
Speaker 2: you should check out the trailer, you can check that
Speaker 2: out on YouTube. Again Unseen Innocence, And I mean, we're
Speaker 2: not talking about nineteen fifty nine. We're not talking about
Speaker 2: nineteen forty nine. We're not talking about nineteen thirty nine
Speaker 2: and the Jim Crow South. You know, we're talking about
Speaker 2: like nineteen eighty you know, I mean, we're talking about
Speaker 2: to me what I considered to be contemporary times. Where
Speaker 2: as you point out as ray ray you said, and
Speaker 2: right in the trailer, that witness has said that the
Speaker 2: person they saw walking away from the scene of the
Speaker 2: crime was white.
Speaker 4: What was just?
Speaker 2: And there was what the ray ray? There were three?
Speaker 4: There was four people.
Speaker 2: Four people. Run it down for me.
Speaker 4: It was four eyewitnesses, all of them are white. One
Speaker 4: was a nine year old girl who witnessed the murder
Speaker 4: under her window watching her mother back out the driveway. Uh.
Speaker 4: It was another guy uh in the next apartments. Uh
Speaker 4: was was a witness to the everything for him driving up,
Speaker 4: getting out of his car and getting killed. You know,
Speaker 4: he witnessed everything, and he was never used at trial.
Speaker 4: He was never called. Why you don't call him eyewitness
Speaker 4: that saw everything to court? Why did they hide this man?
Speaker 4: I'm gonna tell you what they did. They used someone
Speaker 4: else in his place. They brought in a grown man
Speaker 4: that said that the murderer bumped into him and got
Speaker 4: into his car. But the seventeen year old kid who
Speaker 4: was supposed to be in that courtroom was never there.
Speaker 2: And the murder. So the grown man said, you were
Speaker 2: the murderer.
Speaker 4: No, oh, no, no, I've been researching, he said, one
Speaker 4: in the bushes. In the bushes, but it was only
Speaker 4: one white person. Anybody who got in that car. There
Speaker 4: was only one person they got in that car. All
Speaker 4: the witnesses, the security guard, uh, and the man walking
Speaker 4: the dog and the lady backing out said that it
Speaker 4: was a white person. Well, let me tell you something though.
Speaker 4: You know, in most cases, hold up. I believe in
Speaker 4: every case, when when you got an eyewitness to a
Speaker 4: well find crime like this, what do you think that
Speaker 4: the DA should ask that person, that eyewitness? What do
Speaker 4: you think the first thing they should ask that person?
Speaker 2: Who did you see in the scene of the crime?
Speaker 2: Or are you racist?
Speaker 4: No? I'm not racist?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, you no, no, I understand that what
Speaker 2: you should do? You asking me what the first question
Speaker 2: should be?
Speaker 4: The first thing the d A or an attorney asked
Speaker 4: an eyewitness to a crime, do you see that person
Speaker 4: in the court room? They never asked that question.
Speaker 2: But I don't. I don't this whole thing. Look, I
Speaker 2: just don't get it. Like I understand what you're saying
Speaker 2: is the truth, And I'm gonna try to We're gonna
Speaker 2: get into like why this happens, because to me, it
Speaker 2: just seems to be easier on the taxpayer dollar to
Speaker 2: listen to the witnesses and to just get this done
Speaker 2: quicker in court. It seems to be more complicated to
Speaker 2: put an innocent man in jail, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: So I don't understand it. We'll continue the conversation. Unseen Innocence, UH,
Speaker 2: the murder, the wrongful murder conviction of Lionel Railway Williams.
Speaker 2: I tried to say more than this coming up on
Speaker 2: night Side right after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan Ray Live from the Window World
Speaker 1: night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: Garry Tangae filling it for Dan Ray tonight. Unseen Innocence
Speaker 2: the documentary about a manage centers through fifty one years
Speaker 2: for a murder he did not commit. Unseen Innocence is
Speaker 2: not just a documentary, it is a call to action
Speaker 2: and the film was directed Yeah, the film was directed
Speaker 2: by Letitia McIntosh and it talks about the just the
Speaker 2: tragic situation situation. Ray Ray Williams is also our guest
Speaker 2: who was convicted for fifty one years to life for
Speaker 2: a murder and could not have committed that he did
Speaker 2: not commit it, that he did not commit it.
Speaker 4: And it also says right here, I couldn't have committed it.
Speaker 4: I couldn't have done it.
Speaker 2: Well, right here it says, as I was reading Hollywood
Speaker 2: actor sal Mineo's tragic murder, eyewitnesses described a five foot
Speaker 2: nine white man with blondehair as the perpetrator, yet a
Speaker 2: black man standing five to five with a large afro.
Speaker 2: And I saw the video you had a large afro.
Speaker 2: Sir found himself convicted and sentenced to fifty one years.
Speaker 2: He has always maintained his innocence and he is fighting
Speaker 2: to clear his name. So Letitia, can you do you
Speaker 2: find a reason why he was wrongly convicted and why
Speaker 2: the police did not take the evidence that was right
Speaker 2: in front of them, you.
Speaker 3: Know, and not living in that time and being being
Speaker 3: a child myself, I can't say. I can't get into
Speaker 3: the minds, but we know the way this country was
Speaker 3: and the way things were going, and it happens right
Speaker 3: now to this very day. You know, we're really dealing
Speaker 3: with wrongful convictions and people who are unjustly convicted of crimes.
Speaker 3: The one thing that I really wanted to do was
Speaker 3: help mister Williams tell his story. When he talked to me,
Speaker 3: he said, I was no angel, but I did not
Speaker 3: do this. And the biggest thing is giving him an
Speaker 3: opportunity to separate his legacy from being the person who
Speaker 3: was convicted and accused of killing Salmonio. So that because
Speaker 3: what's on the internet, you know, being an it person,
Speaker 3: I know that it will never go away, but at
Speaker 3: least now you can combat a lot of the wrong
Speaker 3: information that was fed to the media. A lot of
Speaker 3: the information that you guys are going to look up
Speaker 3: and see that information was information that was fed to
Speaker 3: the media. That was probably what they wanted to do
Speaker 3: just to close the case. That's the closest thing I
Speaker 3: can think of.
Speaker 2: But that's just to say Ms Macintosh, sure you know,
Speaker 2: I hear you. I mean, I got it. But Ray, Ray,
Speaker 2: maybe you can help me out here. The easiest thing
Speaker 2: to close the case would have been to listen to
Speaker 2: the witnesses.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I don't get.
Speaker 2: So I mean, in pure racism, I guess is I'm
Speaker 2: trying to look for an answer that's beyond pure racism,
Speaker 2: and I don't know if there is.
Speaker 4: One it is not. So that's what it is, pure racism,
Speaker 4: you know, to get rid of you know, they you know,
Speaker 4: they just wanted to get rid of us, you know,
Speaker 4: by all means necessary, you know, uh, get get someone
Speaker 4: to come to Gort and lie. You know, you know,
Speaker 4: don't don't don't believe in the eyewitnesses. Believe in my witnesses,
Speaker 4: because the eyewitnesses a lion. That's the way I got it,
Speaker 4: you know, because you know, the jury should have believed
Speaker 4: what the eyewitness has said instead of what the DA
Speaker 4: witnesses said.
Speaker 3: Him all the way around. I mean, when I listen
Speaker 3: to mister Williams tell the story, when I look at
Speaker 3: what happens when he's the only one who was in
Speaker 3: the court and he's the one that has the court documents,
Speaker 3: he has his inmate copies of the trial records, and
Speaker 3: all the information that's on the media is not what
Speaker 3: he has in his records. And so that's the biggest
Speaker 3: thing for him to clear his name, is for him
Speaker 3: to have the opportunity to get in front of the
Speaker 3: right people. That's why we want people to buy the book,
Speaker 3: because if you buy the books Unseen Innocence, then the
Speaker 3: name off one years to life. But you can buy
Speaker 3: the book at Unseen Innocence dot Com. You'll get an
Speaker 3: opportunity to walk the walk that heat as he's explains
Speaker 3: how everything happened to him in court, how they utilized
Speaker 3: his seventeen year old wife, how they utilized people who
Speaker 3: were supposedly friends, How they utilize all those type of
Speaker 3: people to you know, testify against them, and then Railroad
Speaker 3: and him in so many different ways, you know.
Speaker 2: Did they use let Teacha, How did they use his
Speaker 2: seventeen year old wife and his friends?
Speaker 3: Would they had her say that he came home covered
Speaker 3: in blood, and they had another guy say that he
Speaker 3: came home and said that he killed how many of them?
Speaker 3: And then they they that's the type of stuff that
Speaker 3: they were putting out. They had all kinds of nonsense.
Speaker 2: But so what did they Why did his wife say that?
Speaker 2: What did they they must have they gave her? Did
Speaker 2: they bribe her? Did they threaten her?
Speaker 4: They threatened her?
Speaker 3: They threatened her, and she had gotten herself in some trouble,
Speaker 3: and she had they had children, they were married, that
Speaker 3: they had children, and then they used that and held
Speaker 3: that over her head, you know, so that they could
Speaker 3: so they were they were.
Speaker 2: Going to threaten to take away the kids.
Speaker 3: Exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, that's what it was.
Speaker 3: She wound up shooting herself in the head. She didn't
Speaker 3: commit suicide, but she did shoot herself in the head
Speaker 3: because of the pressure that she was under from those
Speaker 3: police officers at that time. So she lived, she did live,
Speaker 3: and she's still alive now.
Speaker 2: Wow. So it was an attempted suicide.
Speaker 4: No, she tried. She she she shot herself with her
Speaker 4: twenty two and it you know, so you know she
Speaker 4: she she lived, twenty two is not going to do
Speaker 4: that much damaged close range, Okay, So you know, so
Speaker 4: it went in, went in her head, but it took
Speaker 4: a piece of her ear off, went in her head.
Speaker 4: She went blind for a while and then she got
Speaker 4: her eyesight back and then So how did.
Speaker 2: The circumstances point to you? Were you in the vicinity
Speaker 2: of the crime at the time? No, okay, So where
Speaker 2: were you when this, when this murder, when this murder
Speaker 2: and when this whole crime went down? Where were you?
Speaker 2: I was that my brother does how many miles a well?
Speaker 4: Uh, I could say it was thirty five minutes away
Speaker 4: from the murder scene.
Speaker 2: Okay. So how did they finger you for this?
Speaker 3: The yellow car?
Speaker 4: The yellow car?
Speaker 2: Okay, explain can you explain it to me, Letitia?
Speaker 3: Well, Ray Ray could explain it to you better, but
Speaker 3: I can tell you the next show. What happened was
Speaker 3: the Sheriff's office put out a message saying that if
Speaker 3: anybody had, you know, knows anything about a yellow car
Speaker 3: being loaned or rented or anything. So Ray Ray says
Speaker 3: that O'Connor Lincoln, which is where he rented this yellow
Speaker 3: car from Yellow he rented a yellow Dodge Colt because
Speaker 3: he had a car that wasn't working that he bought
Speaker 3: from them, and they gave him that as a loaner,
Speaker 3: and he had that car. He said that the car
Speaker 3: had some technical issues, some mechanical issues. He wound up
Speaker 3: returning the car to them. He didn't even have the
Speaker 3: car that long. However, there was a yellow car that
Speaker 3: was seen by the eyewitnesses that the perpetrator got into. However,
Speaker 3: it was a yellow Toyota. And the reason why we
Speaker 3: know for sure it's a yellow Toyota is because when
Speaker 3: the prosecutor was talking to the eyewitness, he asked him
Speaker 3: about the car several times, and he said, are you sure.
Speaker 3: Do you think it's a yellow He said, I know
Speaker 3: it's a yellow Toyota because my brother has the same car.
Speaker 2: Would it have been so hard to actually run down
Speaker 2: so what they did. So it seems to me what
Speaker 2: happened here is that the first yellow car they found,
Speaker 2: they said this is the guy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, basically basically built the case around when they finally
Speaker 4: got When they finally got around to me, I was
Speaker 4: on my way being extradited to Michigan the Battle Creek
Speaker 4: to face charges out there, and they came to see
Speaker 4: me right before I was extradited. And they came and saying, uh,
Speaker 4: uh I had a yellow car. I said, yeah, I
Speaker 4: had a yellow car, you know. They say what kind
Speaker 4: of car was it? I said, uh, I had a
Speaker 4: dodge coat. You said, he shured, wasn't a Tyota? Nos
Speaker 4: dodge coat and uh. And they asked me, did I
Speaker 4: loaned the car to any of my white friends? I
Speaker 4: said no, I had the car returned back, uh to
Speaker 4: Old Conn of Lincoln before the It was nightfall, So
Speaker 4: you had.
Speaker 2: The car returned before the crime took place.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Jesus, yeah, his wife check this out. The
Speaker 4: they when they brought the rental agreement back into court.
Speaker 4: You know, Uh, I never noticed, but the knowledge going
Speaker 4: going out because I didn't bought vehicles from these people before.
Speaker 4: They always put the miles going out and the miles
Speaker 4: coming in. The miles coming in is not on the
Speaker 4: paper Why Why because it would have proved, because it
Speaker 4: would have proved that the mouse that I put on
Speaker 4: there would have been from O'Connor Lincoln to my mother's
Speaker 4: house on ninety third normany you know, and it wouldn't
Speaker 4: have been no more extra miles from from there to
Speaker 4: Western Shirt plus to Hollywood. No, those miles wouldn't have never.
Speaker 3: It wouldn't have added up.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: What about the time could what about the time that
Speaker 2: you returned the car?
Speaker 4: No, the car was returned right, So it.
Speaker 2: Wasn't The time that you returned the car was not
Speaker 2: on the paperwork.
Speaker 4: None of that wasn't It wasn't none, none of what
Speaker 4: we're doing the paperwork.
Speaker 2: What was the charge about a pret sure?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 2: Forger okay, So you're past like you said, you were
Speaker 2: not an angel, but you were never a violent man.
Speaker 4: No, you know, I ain't no pump. You know, I
Speaker 4: ain't nothing soft about me. But uh, you know, I
Speaker 4: ain't no killer, right, So.
Speaker 2: I don't understand the motive here. So what they're saying
Speaker 2: is that you killed him for money.
Speaker 4: And I had a money and you what, look, look
Speaker 4: I was I was selling dope. I was a drug dealer,
Speaker 4: and I was a pimp, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: So I was getting my money from a lot of
Speaker 4: different angles. You know, I didn't need to go out
Speaker 4: on the street and rob people for pocket change. You know,
Speaker 4: if I was gonna be the person to rob some something,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna rob a jewelry store, I'm gonna rob a credigion,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna rob something with some money at you know,
Speaker 4: I'm not. I wouldn't waste my time on street robbers.
Speaker 4: How much you gonna get out of a person's pocket
Speaker 4: twenty five thirty bucks back then, ain't no money?
Speaker 2: I mean, so r what was the crime? And we
Speaker 2: was the guy that was was sal outside his home
Speaker 2: and this person just killed him for money? Or was
Speaker 2: there something else going on here?
Speaker 4: Unless he got paid to kill that man? He didn't ask,
Speaker 4: He didn't have no conversation with Salmony. Them from the
Speaker 4: eyewood from the seventeen year old, he said that the
Speaker 4: man just walked up to him kidding. He went down.
Speaker 4: He ran down the alley. There was no conversation, give
Speaker 4: me your money, give me your watch, what's in your wallet,
Speaker 4: what's in your briefcase? None of that. That man was
Speaker 4: sent there to kill him for a reason, so he killed.
Speaker 3: I don't know, Jerry. Let me clarify something for you.
Speaker 3: So Rayway had mentioned you about the man walking the dogs.
Speaker 3: So here's what I discovered in Ray Ray's paperwork. There
Speaker 3: was a man. His name was Stephen Gustison. He went
Speaker 3: in front of the grand jury. Now I found Stephen
Speaker 3: Gustinson and asked him if we could interview him. When
Speaker 3: we interviewed him, I said, mister gustuson, how come you
Speaker 3: never pointed Ray Ray out in court? He said, I
Speaker 3: never went to court, And I was like, what do
Speaker 3: you mean? I was like, he was like, I only
Speaker 3: testified in front of the grand jury. However, in Ray
Speaker 3: Ray's official inmate copies, there is a Stephen Gustison that
Speaker 3: testified in court, and Ray Ray remembers a grown man
Speaker 3: in court Crosine. However, Stephen Gustinson was only seventeen years old.
Speaker 3: He was a child's actor from the Electric Company days.
Speaker 3: That's and so we believe they hit him out. And
Speaker 3: so somebody else testified in the court, but with my
Speaker 3: doctor Hennery. Mister Gustinson says, I was standing there with
Speaker 3: my dog about fifty feet away on the other side
Speaker 3: of the fence. I saw sal many old drive up
Speaker 3: Parkers car, get out his car, walk past the first
Speaker 3: and the first entrance and into the second entrance where
Speaker 3: his apartment is. He said, the person ran into him,
Speaker 3: hit him once, took off, and he said, I couldn't
Speaker 3: even see him. He ran into the darkness. He was
Speaker 3: like in sw Minyo, hit the ground, and then I
Speaker 3: saw the bucket of blood just coming out of him.
Speaker 3: The blood was just coming out. And so at that
Speaker 3: point that was when the other white, white witnesses said
Speaker 3: that they saw a white man. The nine year old
Speaker 3: girl saw a white man run past her window. The
Speaker 3: security guard who was by where the car was parked,
Speaker 3: he saw the white man hop.
Speaker 4: Into the car and take her mother saw the man
Speaker 4: run past her car.
Speaker 2: So hold on, folks, So why was there a robbery
Speaker 2: charge if there was no robbery.
Speaker 3: There was no robbery.
Speaker 4: It was no robbery doing you. The whole case is illegal.
Speaker 2: Right, But what I'm saying there's no robbery. But yeah, Ray,
Speaker 2: I just want to make sure. I want to make
Speaker 2: sure everybody understands. I want to make sure everybody It
Speaker 2: says the witnesses that there was no robbery, there was
Speaker 2: no money taken from sal But you were charged with
Speaker 2: murder and robbery.
Speaker 3: Okay, murder and rob but not the robbery of Salmonio.
Speaker 3: They didn't convict him of the robbery of salmon.
Speaker 4: I got found not guilty of the robbery. Ye.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because there was none. Okay, So we're telling
Speaker 2: me that Salmonio died by one punch.
Speaker 3: One hit in the heart. Whoever, they didn't know what
Speaker 3: they were doing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So okay, So you think this person was way
Speaker 4: taller than me and.
Speaker 2: Obviously much whiter, right, and blond Yeah, and blonde hair.
Speaker 2: I mean you couldn't. I mean, listen, Ray, you couldn't
Speaker 2: get more opposite. I mean, come on, you know. So
Speaker 2: so this guy, so you guys think this was a
Speaker 2: paid head where he comes up, punches him in the heart,
Speaker 2: executes him, and then they pined on Ray. So do
Speaker 2: you think this was a paid.
Speaker 4: Had It was two years later. That's the only thing
Speaker 4: that that I can come to my mind that he
Speaker 4: was killed by somebody for a reason.
Speaker 2: Letcha you said two years later?
Speaker 3: What it was two years later when mister Williams was
Speaker 3: convicted of the crime. So they needed to close the case.
Speaker 3: That's all it was to it. They just needed to
Speaker 3: close the case. So they built it that when you
Speaker 3: look at the timeline, they started the whole process. They
Speaker 3: started the whole nonsense to Williams. When about that O'Connor
Speaker 3: Lincoln car, And then they started building the case, and
Speaker 3: then they started coming up with all these things that
Speaker 3: they were feeding to the media. He was telling people
Speaker 3: that he did it, and they was there's jailhouse confessions
Speaker 3: and he was bragging about it in jail and there's
Speaker 3: no proof to that. And he started out, they want
Speaker 3: I have newspaper articles that he wrote. He wrote an
Speaker 3: article to a magazine publication called The Players, where he
Speaker 3: was asking for them to help him because he did
Speaker 3: not commit this robbery. He has in his inmate copies
Speaker 3: of the record. There's some trial transcripts of their conversations
Speaker 3: that were taped with the other the people in the jail,
Speaker 3: and he didn't say anything about killing, said how many
Speaker 3: and he was talking to them and telling him they
Speaker 3: trying to pend this. I mean, these are the transcripts,
Speaker 3: but that's not what's in the media. When you google it,
Speaker 3: that's not what you're going to see. You can see
Speaker 3: nonsense about him doing a seance. You un to see
Speaker 3: all kinds of nonsense that's out there because Faminio was
Speaker 3: the darling of so many people because of the revel
Speaker 3: without a Cause, and then also in the late sixties
Speaker 3: early seventies, he came out as being bisexual, which was
Speaker 3: not popular in that timeframe, and he took a hit
Speaker 3: for it. So he's the darling of the LBGTQ community.
Speaker 3: So a lot of the videos that you see now,
Speaker 3: a lot of the YouTube videos, a lot of the
Speaker 3: articles and things that are written is written by people
Speaker 3: who have a lot of respect for him, but they're
Speaker 3: all feeding off the same incorrect information that was placed
Speaker 3: out there.
Speaker 2: Seen Innostance is the documentary about the wrongful murder conviction
Speaker 2: of Ray Ray Williams. Ray Ray is our guest along
Speaker 2: with Lutitia McIntosh, the director of the film. Some more
Speaker 2: questions as we discussed this, and I want to know
Speaker 2: what Ray's doing now and what's his state of mind.
Speaker 2: That's all coming up next on WBZ.
Speaker 1: It's a Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
Speaker 1: news radio.
Speaker 2: We'll going back to Knightside. Gary Tang waiting for Dan tonight.
Speaker 2: Sam Methler joins us. Coming up at eleven o'clock talk.
Speaker 2: It's some more politics on what's going on with the
Speaker 2: presidential race right now. And I got some comments on
Speaker 2: Aerosmith coming up, so you want to stick around for that.
Speaker 2: Ray Ray Williams is joining us along with the film
Speaker 2: directed by Letitia McIntosh, Unseen Innocence, a documentary about the
Speaker 2: wrongful murder conviction of mister Williams. So, if I have
Speaker 2: this correct, you were a parole in nineteen ninety, sir, Yes, yes,
Speaker 2: parold in nineteen ninety. So you serve twelve years?
Speaker 4: Well it's thirteen on the gong.
Speaker 2: Do you think that you were paroled because somebody was
Speaker 2: trying to do him make good? Because to serve thirteen
Speaker 2: years for a murder and get paroled it seems to
Speaker 2: be pretty lenient. Was somebody trying to make up for
Speaker 2: a make up for past sins?
Speaker 4: Oh no, I don't know what I had.
Speaker 5: My cousin Fernando Jackson, who was a jail house attorney,
Speaker 5: have my sentence overturned. Yeah, that's what every appellate attorney
Speaker 5: I had couldn't find a way to get this beat
Speaker 5: this case off of me. So my cousin figured out
Speaker 5: a way and he saw that I was sentenced wrong.
Speaker 2: So letitia was this was this like a loophole or
Speaker 2: did they did somebody actually buy the evidence? Were they
Speaker 2: able to own overturn it for a clerical issue?
Speaker 3: It wasn't even a clerical issue, was it. That's a
Speaker 3: claricul issue. I know that he basically knew that there
Speaker 3: was some things that went wrong in the original trial,
Speaker 3: and so being a jailhouse attorney and having the you know,
Speaker 3: strong knowledge of the law, he was able to help
Speaker 3: mister Williams get what he needed, which was to get
Speaker 3: the sentence reduced so that he could be paroled. And
Speaker 3: that is in a nutshell what happened. His sentence was
Speaker 3: reduced and then he's been out for what over twenty
Speaker 3: five years, and he's not had any issues, you know,
Speaker 3: just lived his life, moved on from it. He wasn't
Speaker 3: even going to deal with this. This whole thing came
Speaker 3: up because of his was your son at seven at
Speaker 3: the time, Yeah, get the seven year old son, and
Speaker 3: somebody told his mother told him about it.
Speaker 4: Mother told him that I was a murderer. And he
Speaker 4: went in to a quiet mode on us when it
Speaker 4: was our turn to have him at my right, and
Speaker 4: then we just ask him what's wrong. He said, well,
Speaker 4: my mother said that you're a killer. You know, he said, please,
Speaker 4: don't don't don't, don't kill bad Man, don't kill Robin,
Speaker 4: don't kill Spider Man. You know, his his people, you know,
Speaker 4: his cartoon characters. You know. He at that time, I
Speaker 4: guess you believed him to be real, you know. And he,
Speaker 4: you know, from what his mother told him, you know.
Speaker 4: And I told him, I said, well, I'm sorry, but
Speaker 4: your mama's a lot, you know. And and you know,
Speaker 4: but like I said in the documentary, you know, I
Speaker 4: don't know what's going on in his head, you know,
Speaker 4: because things have changed since then, you know. I mean,
Speaker 4: it's hard for him to say he loves me. Now
Speaker 4: he's ten years old. You know, it's weird. You know,
Speaker 4: he's still looking at me as a killer. Yeah, And
Speaker 4: he seemed and he seemed he's seen the documentary and
Speaker 4: started crying. That's the cold thing. He couldn't even watch
Speaker 4: the rest of it. He said, Dad, they were beating you,
Speaker 4: they were hurting you. I said, yes, they were, you know.
Speaker 4: And he couldn't understand that. He couldn't understand that. He said,
Speaker 4: I don't want to I don't want to see this
Speaker 4: no more, you know, cut it off that I wanted
Speaker 4: him to see.
Speaker 2: Well, it's exceptionally hard to watch, I'm sure. So your
Speaker 2: pure motivation is to prove your innocence to your son.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 2: Well, that's admirable, sir, I mean that that is that
Speaker 2: is certainly admirable. And was this the woman his mother?
Speaker 2: Is she the one that testified against you?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: No, oh no, no, okay, okay.
Speaker 3: Now mister Winson married about four times.
Speaker 2: So letitia, what is the next step here? Where can
Speaker 2: we see the documentary? And also if you want to
Speaker 2: mention the name of the book again.
Speaker 3: I'm so glad that you mention that. So if you
Speaker 3: go to Unseen Innocence dot com you will be able
Speaker 3: to purchase the book fifty one years to life. And
Speaker 3: then we are working on distribution. We have had some meetings.
Speaker 3: If the goal is to get the documentary so we
Speaker 3: can have it out there so people can watch the documentary,
Speaker 3: and then we also want to do a movie because
Speaker 3: the movie will then allow us to or a series,
Speaker 3: to delve into all of the intricacies of this story
Speaker 3: because there is a lot to it. There's a lot
Speaker 3: to unpack, and so the documentary can only touch the
Speaker 3: surface of things. But if we can do a movie,
Speaker 3: that would allow us to really get into the full
Speaker 3: intricacies all the way through, you know, and even up
Speaker 3: to now.
Speaker 2: So, Letitia, this is the only film you've done.
Speaker 4: No, sir.
Speaker 3: I have a movie that I did when I came
Speaker 3: out of film school. It's called Freshman. It's fresh and
Speaker 3: the word mulamb denou with the with the Greek letter
Speaker 3: in ulan the new it looks like the word man.
Speaker 3: But Freshman is a movie that deals with college fraternities
Speaker 3: and date rate.
Speaker 2: So this okay. So, but from did you feel you
Speaker 2: were going to be a documentarian? I mean, you did
Speaker 2: that out of college, but from what I read, you
Speaker 2: were looking to do animation and when you stumbled upon
Speaker 2: this story, you had a calling to do it.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I felt like this was an assignment that
Speaker 3: guy gave me. To help mister Williams tell his story
Speaker 3: because my background was in it. I worked in public
Speaker 3: accurning firms and I was a trainer and I just
Speaker 3: wanted to learn how to animate my training videos, which
Speaker 3: is why I went to film school. So when I
Speaker 3: finished it, before I did the music video, and I
Speaker 3: did a couple other little projects and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: But when I got introduced to him. The other thing
Speaker 3: about sal Many is my brother's name was sal My
Speaker 3: deceased brother's name was Sala. So I was like, there
Speaker 3: was It made me pay attention a little bit more.
Speaker 3: But I read about it and I was like, I'll
Speaker 3: come from the adage. It doesn't sound right. There's a
Speaker 3: lion there somewhere. And the problem that I had was
Speaker 3: that witnesses saw a white man and he was clearly
Speaker 3: a light skinned black man with an afro. He can't
Speaker 3: even pass He's not you know, he's not like Rashida Jones.
Speaker 3: He can't even pass for white. He is a traditional,
Speaker 3: light complexed black man. So I was like, this doesn't
Speaker 3: all right. So I just wanted to help him tell
Speaker 3: his story. That was all I wanted to do was
Speaker 3: help him get a story out.
Speaker 4: Okay, but checked this out. Ten minutes later, I'm three
Speaker 4: blocks over. Now I'm not in a yellow car. Now
Speaker 4: I'm in a four door white car. And now I'm
Speaker 4: bad headed, and now I have a crime partner with me,
Speaker 4: and we're robbing someone else on the street three blocks over.
Speaker 4: Ten minutes later, that I went from blonde hair to
Speaker 4: no hair, yellow car to a big white car, and
Speaker 4: now I got a crime partner in ten minutes.
Speaker 3: Would he would he's speaking to the robberies that he
Speaker 3: was convicted of. That is part of the reason why
Speaker 3: since got overturned, because the robberies that were tied to
Speaker 3: his conviction, they were unsolved robberies that happened in the area,
Speaker 3: and so they tied a lot of it. It was
Speaker 3: one of the robberies. He wasn't in the hospital when
Speaker 3: the robbery occurred.
Speaker 2: So the robbery had nothing to do with sal Mineo.
Speaker 3: No, these were just okay when we buried okay, but
Speaker 3: they were part of the sentencing.
Speaker 2: Well, we buried the lead on that because.
Speaker 4: They used the robberies to make the murder stronger.
Speaker 2: Well, No, what they were doing is they were trying
Speaker 2: to solve as many they were trying to shut as
Speaker 2: many cases as possible at your expense, and they did,
Speaker 2: and they.
Speaker 3: Your death because there were more. He was actually charged
Speaker 3: with more than than than ten robberies. He was charge
Speaker 3: with a lot more, but they couldn't make them stick
Speaker 3: so that he didn't get convicted of them.
Speaker 2: What they didn't get you for jay walking to well. Sure,
Speaker 2: thank you for joining us. We appreciate the timetosh, thank you.
Speaker 4: Thank you for having us. I appreciate you look look
Speaker 4: up the story, investigate the case yourself so you could
Speaker 4: see everything that was done wrong. And when you purchased
Speaker 4: the book you will see every We we re searched
Speaker 4: every case that they put on me. Every case they
Speaker 4: put on me was done wrong. Everything was done wrong.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the name of the.
Speaker 2: Film up well, Unseen inter Since it's the name of
Speaker 2: the film, is the book, we'll be looking for that film. Letitia,
Speaker 2: mister Williams, thank you for joining us, and we wish
Speaker 2: you the best of luck.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Gerry, thank you, Boston.
Speaker 4: We appreciate it, thank.
Speaker 2: You so much. Wow, what a story. Again the documentary,
Speaker 2: keep an eye out for it. They're looking for distribution.
Speaker 2: Unseen Innocence and also fifty one used to life is
Speaker 2: the name of the book on the death of Hollywood
Speaker 2: actor South Mineo, in which Lionel Ray Ray Williams was set.
Speaker 2: It's fifty win us to life. He did get out
Speaker 2: after thirteen years. A lot of movie parts on that
Speaker 2: one Lot to one pack coming up tonight eleven o'clock.
Speaker 2: Sam Metler joins us as we talked to politics and
Speaker 2: entertainment right here on WBZ.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
Speaker 1: night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: You know, I love Aerosmith, absolutely love it. All the
Speaker 2: great bands out of Boston. So many great bands came
Speaker 2: out of this city. Jay Giles Band, Boston obviously, Aerosmith phenomenal,
Speaker 2: I mean just absolutely phenomenal. I loved and you just
Speaker 2: think that these guys are going to go on forever,
Speaker 2: because you see Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones at
Speaker 2: eighty plus still selling out stadiums, and Keith Richards somehow
Speaker 2: still out there playing guitar, and even Aerosmith like Stephen Tyler,
Speaker 2: like the guy, you know, when was he when was
Speaker 2: it never going to catch up to him? And now
Speaker 2: it has. They're not going to be performing live anymore.
Speaker 2: His voice. I mean that dude's voice. I mean, was
Speaker 2: there a better live show voice than Steven Tyler. I'm
Speaker 2: just talking off the top of my head, hear I'm thinking.
Speaker 2: I mean there are other great bands, Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2: I mean that you could see lot. I mean, Bruce
Speaker 2: Bruce's voice obviously was different than Tyler's. I mean, Bruce
Speaker 2: had a it's got a strength to it, It's got
Speaker 2: a blue collar tone to it. But Stephen Tyler's voice,
Speaker 2: the range, my god, and the way he could like
Speaker 2: sing the blues too, you know, Joe Perry and guitar,
Speaker 2: I mean, phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal. I was. I was just
Speaker 2: looking at some of their their albums. I remember Toys
Speaker 2: in the Attic when that came out, and you know,
Speaker 2: we all, hey, let's play the Big Tennant's Cricket. Oh.
Speaker 2: That was a terrific album. And that was in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy three. Toys in the Addict sold eight million. That
Speaker 2: was their third album. Carter Allen's got this up on
Speaker 2: ZLX dot com, which is also a sister station. I mean, look,
Speaker 2: Carter Allen's a guy that knows more about music than anybody.
Speaker 2: Toys in the Attic I remember that was a great album.
Speaker 2: Pumped to me was the one I loved, Loving an elevator,
Speaker 2: phenomenal tune and the way he would use his voice,
Speaker 2: going up and down like that permanent vacation. Let's see
Speaker 2: it well, Rocks Rocks is legendary. Back in the saddle again,
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Samuel Song
Speaker 2: and Dance was great. Train kept the ruling. You know,
Speaker 2: I had that blues thing to it, almost like a
Speaker 2: Jay Giles type of thing, except a lot harder. Night
Speaker 2: in the Ruts. That only sold a million. Huh, walk
Speaker 2: in a hard place. I thought that would have sold
Speaker 2: more than that. But I mean just as a singer,
Speaker 2: and that at some point in time that voice had
Speaker 2: to go right. Like I wonder that about Bruce. I mean,
Speaker 2: how much longer can Bruce do it? I mean, Bruce
Speaker 2: is seventy and he just keeps cranking it out. I mean, now,
Speaker 2: the thing I hear about Springsteen is that he won't
Speaker 2: talk for days before a show. No, he won't talk
Speaker 2: at all before, just to keep his to keep his
Speaker 2: voice intact. But Steven Tyler with the the hair, and
Speaker 2: you know, he never whenever I saw him, and I
Speaker 2: saw him at Foxborough once he was on the sidelines
Speaker 2: of a Patriots game. Joe Perry too, But Steven Tyler
Speaker 2: never looked like he should like grow like all right, dude,
Speaker 2: give it up. You know you're eighty, you're seventy, you're whatever.
Speaker 2: Even when he was on well not America's got talent,
Speaker 2: what American idol? You know? He still could pull off
Speaker 2: the long hair. He still could put off the rings,
Speaker 2: the jewelry, the bandan is, the scarves, the scarves around
Speaker 2: the microphone. He could still pull it off. He can.
Speaker 2: He can still pull it off today. It's just his
Speaker 2: voice can't do it anymore. What a band man, I'm okay,
Speaker 2: I'm probably thinking maybe a c DC, not Angus. Angus
Speaker 2: was the lead singer who died, but bon Scott Scott,
Speaker 2: I know Brian, Brian If I got Brian's last name,
Speaker 2: who was the lead singer of ac DC that took
Speaker 2: over for bon Scott. That dude's voice, what he does
Speaker 2: or has done, probably he and Tayba right there, and
Speaker 2: the fact that he was still doing it up to
Speaker 2: this point. Steven Tyler, good job, Aerosmith, one of the greats,
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to do any more live shows.
Speaker 2: You know what, dudes, it's okay. You've got a great run.
Speaker 2: You deserve a break, which is what we'll take. Sam
Speaker 2: Mettler on the tight presidential race, coming up next on
Speaker 2: wb Z