Speaker 1: What is up? Fellasicico's I Am Dana Valley coming at
you with the one, the only, this certified fantabuloust and
the world class co host that is named who is
named Grant Hughes. We are coming at you with our
final preseason podcast package. The Raptors look Ahead is coming
and we'll drop on Tuesday. But this is mine and
Grant's last Let's get ready for the season podcast together.
The regular season is here, Grant, which means it's awards time.
But first the question is twofold, how the heck are you?
And two? How are we already here?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Right? This is the last, but also the first,
because we'll come back to these. However, many times we
decide as necessary. I think we did it like quarterly
last year, where we did an awards check in. These
are tough, man, because it feels I don't know if
you felt this way, but it's almost like, well, how
much do you really want to change from how you
ended last year? Because there haven't been any games since then,
so what would be different? It doesn't have to fight
to make sure you don't just replicate your final ballot,
or at least I did or know how you felt
about it.
Speaker 1: It was for certain awards, yeah, but then other awards.
It's injuries take care of it. Not just players are
out now. But okay, Luka Dancich is probably going to
factor into the MVP discussion more this year than he
did last year, so there's some natural shifting there. I
always struggle with how to project improvement to where if
there's someone that you think is going to be really
good or is on the precipice of whatever award, I
sometimes fight against almost internally putting them in there, because
I'm just conditioned to think that until they're in the
mainstream of that discussion, that I'm too far ahead of
them and it's stupid to include them.
Speaker 2: Well, there's a payoff if you do get it right
and you get to say had this before the season,
And I would, believe me, if I get any of those,
I will remind everybody that I was in early.
Speaker 1: Is there any team or player or something that stands
out that you were so or like a really big
hit to where you were just so early on them
and in hindsight it makes you look like a borderline genius.
Speaker 2: If that's nice. No, I will say it's definitely not.
You had the Suns one year right.
Speaker 1: That yeah, And that wasn't even it. There was I
feel there's certain fan bases that I feel like are
willing to give me a little bit more leeway when
they disagree with me than others. And the Sons do
spring to mind a little bit. The Thunder for sure,
because I think at the time when everyone was saying
they should trade Shay, this rebuild is never gonna end.
I was just among the people that were saying, uh no,
they're gonna be fine. But the player, the player and team,
I think their fan base, not generally. They They've turned
on me sometimes because I've been critical of them, but
they've always been, by and large really nice to me.
Is the Nuggets, because I was among the people that
were no, Nicola jokicch is really good. This is not
This is not like there's no conversation with Jokic and Nurkic.
It wasn't and it wasn't even about having those It
was you're going way back, well it's way way back,
but to where people even when he was on his own,
like they made the what was the date, probably December
twelfth or whatever it ends up being, But there was
this resistance to thinking that Jokic could be an MVP
or how is he winning MVPs when you couldn't build
a title contender around him? And at every step and
I'm not saying this happens, clearly, it doesn't happen often
for me, but at every step I was just even
some of the arguments were legitimate, they just couldn't sway me.
And so I was pretty adamant about that with him.
And that's like one of my biggest hits. It's like,
since I've been doing this is just I was early
on Jokic and refuse to cause I'm I'm pretty impressionable,
you know this, but I refuse to move off of
like No, like Jokic is just generational. We don't need
to do the rings culture count here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well now we can, and he's got one and
maybe I'll get a second. No, that's a good one
to be in on. I'm sure I don't have anything
quite that pressent. Although I was, like I was, I
feel like I was sold pretty early on Jokic. Maybe
you had something to do that.
Speaker 1: I don't know what, did you want them to trade
Steph when he No?
Speaker 2: But I do distinctly remember when he signed the four year,
forty four million dollar contract coming off the ankle stuff
I wrote. I remember where I was when I wrote it.
I think I said something along what was insane like
eleven million dollars a year by today's standard, So that
tells you how long ago it was. But I remember saying,
this is a huge risk and there's a good chance
this doesn't pay off, because like what because if there's
look at this history, like you you can't count on
him to play all these games. He's been great, you know.
I think I hedged enough as I want to do,
but I was really fixated on the risk of it all,
and like, this is so much money. This is like
ty loss in money.
Speaker 1: Are you crazy?
Speaker 2: You know, because that's when all those guys are getting
their their second deals. Well yeah that But then with him,
it was all with the Warriors too. It was just
sort of I was too close to it, and I
remember like, as it's all happening, you know, those first
couple of the first championship, it was just like I
can't believe this is happening. This is like this is
too impossible. So I can't I can't claim to have
like predicted anything. I'm sure the seventy three and nine season,
I was just like, why are we even playing this season?
They're not going to be touched and then they don't
win that title. So cuts both of them were.
Speaker 1: To give you the credit so you won't give it
to yourself. And I don't know how much of this
has to do with just you know, your alumni ties,
but you were on j dub before he even suit
it up for the Thunder.
Speaker 2: There's definitely some alumni ties. But I will say, like
when you just watching him early on, I was convinced,
like this guy just kind of has it. So I'll
take I'll take that one. I thank you, Thank.
Speaker 1: You sound like me talking about Cody Williams, which is
not It's.
Speaker 2: Not too late, listen, it's early days, Dan, there's so
much ahead of him.
Speaker 1: I think what better way to segue into MVP talk
than by talking about Cody Willie. So our MVP ballot's
just as a reminder. We do this as who we
think we are going to pick. We're not necessarily trying
to predict who is going to win. We go five
deep on MVP and then we go three deep everywhere else.
But there's a twist. This year, we are going to
name someone who a dark horse, a long shot candidate
who if we were to build a ballot right now,
or if the consensus was to build a ballot right now,
they would not be in the top ten. But we're
trying to map out up we could see a pathway, however,
unlikely to them entering the conversation with that. Would you
like to take us through your MVP ballot ballot sir, yep.
Speaker 2: So I've got Jokic first, just a you know, maybe
the game's played is an issue. I want to try
to stay away from that unless it's like a real
obvious case, like hypothetically if we had MBT on here
or something, which we don't, but like if there's a
massive question mark about injuries, that's worth mentioning. I assume
he's going to play fifty sixty five games. Maybe he does,
but like he's the best player in the world. I
don't think that's changed. SGA's MVP was valid last year,
like fine deserved it. I think I just am taking
Jokic as the best player. I don't think that's changed.
I have Luca second. And this is where the narrative
side of It gives me real pause because I don't
think the Lakers are going to win fifty games, and
that kind of feels like something you need to do.
Except Russell Westbrook's thunder didn't do it. He averaged a
triple double. I think Luca could absolutely do that, and
the Lakers are the sixth seed and that's enough. I
think he's gonna have a monster year. I've come around
to the the best shape of his life thing. I
think the team is set up for him to succeed.
After that, it's kind of usual suspects SGA. I think
comes off the gas a little bit, he plays a
little less. He'll just he'll still be great. Steph at four,
Wimby at five doesn't feel super.
Speaker 1: And you're like usual suspects, just usual suspects.
Speaker 2: I mean he was probably fifth last year for me,
I don't know, you know, so give me, give me,
give me yours. And because we have quite a bit
of overlap.
Speaker 1: There, I have jokicet one and I've shay it too.
So you're talking about not making changes from last season,
this is how I ended last season. I don't see
any reason to believe that someone's going to just infringe
upon the stature in importance that they hold to their teams.
I know the Thunder are insanely deep. I know the
Nuggets are deeper, but those are still two guys that
are just responsible for literally everything basically happened or offensively
that's happening for their teams. I've have him only if
three and so this is where the projecting forward to,
where I know I mentioned him. He might have been
fifth on my ballot, and we talked about him with
first team All NBA last year, so it's not like
I'm rushing to coordinate. He might just continue to get
better on offense. And no matter how you feel about Oh,
people over corrected on Jaron Jackson junior last year and
Wenby was injured, he just won Defensive Player of the Year,
and even if everyone was healthy, probably would have finished
no lower than third on that ballot. Anyway, there's he
might end up being the best offensive and defensive player
on his team this season. I don't want to predict
that because Donovan, Mitchell and Cleveland all respect in the
world for him, but there's a chance that he does that.
And I don't know how many other players can you
say that about in the NBA even have a chance
of being that. Wemby probably right. So I have it at
three because I think that he is just what he does.
The collective of what he does, the aggregate of what
he does at both ends of the floor, is going
to be such a huge factor of not just winning,
but for what could be or what should be the
best team in the Eastern Conference. Wemb at four. I
shouldn't have to justify this, but in my head, you
and I just did our over unders and the Spurs
could very well just be a five hundred team or worse.
And can you really have the MVP while being on
a team that isn't going to be top six in
the conference? The answer in reality is no. I don't
have him as the actual MVP, though, but I don't
know how to penalize him for the minutes he's not
on the floor. This is just if he plays in
sixty five games, he's going to win Defensive Player of
the Year. The Spurs are going to win the minutes
when he's on the court. That if they start losing
the minute he's on the floor, that's when you have
this conversation. I also think if we're looking at voters
or even from our own perspectives, once you kind of
get past three, it's I don't need to be all
this needs to be on And I don't even know
how much I scre assign value to that stance anyway,
but that's part of it. And then Steph, Steph, excuse me,
I consideration for him at number three. I think the
Warriors are just going to be spectacular at their peak,
and that he is still going to be the primary
reason why. The things he does for them on offense
is just it's a replicable and even with Jimmy Butler
there where you could say, oh, they're gonna win the minutes,
without Steph, it's probably not gonna happen because of the offense.
It's gonna happen almost entirely because of the defense. My
only pause with him is of the five names that
I have mentioned, even without a real injury, he's the
one I look at and wonder, Okay, how many games
is he gonna play?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I think I think the case for so
the Wimby case, and because we both have him or
five just in reverse order, just acknowledging that like, yeah,
the Spurs could win half their games or if Wemby
is what he might be. They win fifty, and then
you're talking and then that's sort of like it's circular logic.
It's like, well, if they won fifty, he was the
defensive player of the year and like a superstar on offense,
and if he's a superstar on offensive defensive player of
the year, they're probably winning fifty. It kind of just
like that's a reality that can be, that's on that's possible.
And the Steph thing, like you know, if you've played
with Kevin Durant and like a semi close to the
prime Andre Godala and that version of the team. It's
hard to say this, but in a lot of ways,
he's set up to succeed at least as well as
he's been since then, and maybe as well just because
of Butler's ability to take games over and attract attention,
and then the Horford up piece of it, where they've
never had that kind of spacing and passing from like
a true center. So there are possibilities for Steph to
just like it's never gonna be easy for him because
I don't care who else is out there, He's always
getting like first option attention. But maybe a little less
and maybe that means he gets like two more clean
looks at night. I mean, just that's something to just consider,
and it went into my thinking for sure.
Speaker 1: Did anyone in fact? Well, actually, how do you feel
to stick with the top five we have? How do
you feel about this prediction? It came from Adamadas of
the NVR Sports. He thinks that Jokic is gonna have
he did this once, have a true shooting percentage north
of seventy. Thinks he could because that his scoring burden
won't need to be as high and he'll be able
to be more selective with his shots. And so it's
Jokis is already the most efficient twenty plus points per
game score in NBA history because of that true shooting
percentage of seventy point one. I think it was it
was the championship season. What do you think of the
idea that he could just be more efficient than that?
Speaker 2: It's hard to imagine, because, as you said, nobody ever
has really at that volume. But I could see it,
I guess I would before I bought all the way
into that. This doesn't diminish it. MVP case I have
him first, just like you, I would need to be
convinced that the remade bench actually does have more self
sufficient scoring or something, just because like, what's the case
for him? Why is it easier for him? Now? I
think a lot of that rides on the bench and
maybe on like just better health from the starters, because
like MPJ attracted a ton of attention and like I
think Cam Johnson might be similar in that regard. So
I mean, I'm not putting anything past Jocic. I'm just
not sure I see that like the a to be like,
why why is this roster going to allow him to
do that?
Speaker 1: When looking at trust my top five, I have Luca
considered this, especially if there are any good the narrative
bumpfre Giannis, if he's having a usual type season, that
could really put him in here. Any other names I
obviously thought about Jalen Brunson, but it feels like his
counting stats might take a hit, And so maybe there's
the trade office. Well if they look better or people
think that their offense is more play off proof, does
he get some love? Affy Edwards was another mother name
I thought about. Was there anyone that you gave real
consideration to in the top five?
Speaker 2: Mobiley was a hard was a hard cut for me.
I just I kind of I had to have Luca
in there and you don't, And that's was the difference
for me. Edwards, you mentioned trying to think if we're
overlooking anybody really obvious, like you can't really do either
of the other two thunder Stars because it'll just be
SGA if they're great. I can't get a rocket on there.
Speaker 1: Who would be the rocket?
Speaker 2: I mean, well, do you want to get get nuts?
It just is it Thompson, Is that.
Speaker 1: It reach Shepherd because I'm round, there's.
Speaker 2: Levels of nuts that we could get to with the rockets.
I mean, Shan Goon will probably be I mean, he
certainly had the best season of anyone last year, and
he's young enough to get better. But Thompson just this
is the whole thing with Thompson is just if you know,
he's probably the best defensive wing in the league, and
what if he also averages twenty and seven? You know, like,
what do you do with that?
Speaker 1: I think the pathway for Shangoon to be the rocket
on the ballot is actually easier because it's it's he's closer,
he's closer, and but it also feels it's easier to
make the case for someone who's driving the entire offense
and then not hurting the defense or playing good defense,
rather than with Thompson. It does feel like defense is
going to have to be the basis of his case
for the most right.
Speaker 2: It is a funny thing with awards where if you're
a defense driven player, they're like, oh, well we got
an award for that. We don't need to we don't
need to make it about you know.
Speaker 1: The MVP is really kind of first, I guess Wemby
is is he an exception or is it just is
But we're just saying we just went through like he's
a lock for Defensive Player of the Year and he's
no higher than fourth for either of us, So clearly,
you know, the way for him to win MVP.
Speaker 2: Is to become one of the ten best offensive players
in the league.
Speaker 1: Are you ready to reveal our with a twist? Select
go through yours first?
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know how much a twist it is.
I feel these are really hard to get two into
the weeds with Palla Bank, Arrow is Mine the Magic.
I think are probably the third best team in the
East right now, and maybe if they're maybe if they
somehow bust into that top two and he is, I
don't know, up around thirty points per game and it's
slightly more efficient. The case kind of just makes itself
like I'm just imagining the pieces that would need to
come together for him to be there, and you know
the magic are right there, like you know they they
could be good enough even if they're the third seed
if his numbers are crazy. It's so I can just
kind of if you squint, like I could, I could
see him having a better shot than you might think.
And actually he's I don't know what he is in
the odds is probably not that low.
Speaker 1: I think that's an excellent selection, and it was also
my selection, which is why I privoted for this sake
of variety, I went with Scottie Barnes in Toronto. Again,
this is the entire part of the exercise. What if
Toronto's just fifth or six in the East. He's averaging
twenty points six assists, playing excellent defense, the efficient he's
shooting thirty seven percent from three unreasonable volume. The true
shooting percentage is hovering around fifty eight fifteen nineteen, Like
he's the best player on what might just be the
most surprising team. It's probably a stretch just because five
or six in the East, it's sort of all right,
is that that's basically a lottery team right in most
other cases? Yeah, Toronto just has a lot of talent.
And if he has a I think he is going.
If you gave me point five all NBA appearances for
his career, I'm gonna take the over. So, like, what
if they're just four, Like if they're just fourth, and
because you have the Knicks, the Magic, the Hawks, the Calves,
if they're just what if they want to be better
than one of those teams, I don't think they will be,
But that's the that would be the name I would circle.
I tried to get to a Western Conference name, but
none of them unless you were gonna put a rocket
on it felt like they would be dark horse enough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's hard because we have, i mean, our
more serious portion of the ballot. It's like, well, Anthony Edwards,
like he's I mean, you can't it's not a dark
corn candidate at all. You really could win it. I see,
I see the difficulty there.
Speaker 1: Defensive Player of the Year, you want to take us
through your ballot?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Wemby one. We've we've talked about it.
Speaker 1: Just let's move on.
Speaker 2: I don't know what else what would need to happen
for him to not win this. It's other than injury,
like if he's healthy, it's just I don't know, it's
his He's just the most game changing defender maybe we've
ever seen. Uh So that that's that's pretty straightforward. I
I have Evan Mobley second, and I have im and
Thompson third, which Thompson I think the thing I ran
into that's tricky is it's pretty hard for a wing
or like Marcus Smart as the only guard to win it.
They're the only non big to win it in however,
many since like Gary Payton or something or Kawhi. Yeah,
it's rare, but I think Thompson is a rare defender.
I like the other two guys you have after Wemby though,
because I feel like that kind of gets us covered
and the the more big man candidates.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I have Wemby WAE. I just don't what
is that? What is what talent would you have to
put around him to where the Spurs wouldn't have the
equivalent of just the top five or ten defense with
him on the court.
Speaker 2: Uh, you would have to take a lot of Sacramento
Kings off of the Kings and put them on the Spurs.
Speaker 1: I think so Wemby one, I've bam Adebio two. I
don't has he become underappreciated. I'm not basing this entirely
off the GM survey either. It's just Miami reliably has
a close to elite defense almost no matter who what
personnel's on the team. And if he does it this year,
when Tyler Hero and Norman Powell are presumably going to
play together, and when it seems like he's going to
play a bunch with Nikola Jovic rather than Kohlie Aware,
who's not a great defender. But you can put him
in kind of the basic center positions and then let
Bam do a lot of the stuff on the perimeter.
It feels like if this Heat team is like tenth
or something in defense again, that he would have a
really strong case non Wemby division. I also have your guy.
I'm surprised you didn't have this guy, chet Holm Grin
at three. We're kind of this. I'm not doing this,
I swear, but I do think that if he's healthy
he does feel like the player that's most likely to
just both a thunder have one of the best defenses
of all time. Somebody has to be in the top
three of this ballot. But also, if you were to
ask scientists to concoct the ideal defensive big man who's
not Wemby that can't be Wemby and like make him
in a lab, they'd probably spit out some version of
bam Adebayo or chet Holmgrin.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I think I think those two guys for
very much a consideration for me. I'm surprised to see
you not have Mobiley up there giving your MVP take
on him, which you know maybe is not totally defensively based.
But anybody else that we need to like give you know,
short list consideration two or that you thought about in
one of these top three spots, I have a couple.
Speaker 1: Yeah, give me give me where my list was not
short of the names I considered.
Speaker 2: I think if you, if you get games played cleared,
Draymond probably should be in consideration if the Warriors are
as good as some people think. And he was third
last year, so I you know, I haven't seen too
many signs of drop off for him I had. I
had Bam as another guy that I definitely considered pretty
strongly in CHET too. The games played for CHET might
be who you know? Who knows, but yeah, I couldn't.
Did you get any other wings in the mix? Or
maybe the question is about Thompson? Was he someone you
thought about?
Speaker 1: I did. Thompson was on my list. He's so wipe.
My ballot does extend deeper. I have him fifth, I
had mobile fourth for anyone who care. Jared Jackson Junior
not a wing. Do we think he'll play in enough games?
Or has he already been ruled out? That?
Speaker 2: That was my reservation is where he's starting. You know
he's not going to be out as long as Edie,
but I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't like.
Speaker 2: If he's fully healthy, he's like a top five guy.
But but I just we're gonna lose some games at
the outset.
Speaker 1: If we were looking at I don't want to spoil
because we both have them in our dark dark horses.
They're not bigs, so we won't get to that. But
if we were to look at like a wing or
a guard that isn't quite like that, it would have
the ability to win it. Jalen Suggs if he plays
enough game feels like, given how good Orlando would be
a defensive end I struggle to get to. I don't
think Jayden McDaniels probably isn't at that level.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Gobert takes some of his yeah splits
the voters or it probably go Bart gets credit and
not that it will be undeserved. If Minnesota is a
really good defense, Asar Thompson, it's just to get the
other Thompson on there. I think that's there's a shot. Yeah,
I mean he's kind of wild CARDI I would say,
not a.
Speaker 1: Big I mean, not a wing. But if the Clippers
are top five defense, again, it's probably because if it's
Azubas is killing it, especially when you look at some
of the lineups that are gonna be rolled out there.
So that would be another good one.
Speaker 2: We haven't said Dyson Daniels. I mean, you know, I
think he's someone that you I don't think Dyson Daniels
can win it, but just if he ever just three
steals a game again, we're gonna have to talk about him.
Speaker 1: Do you think, like what if I told you he
played in sixty five games? Do you think Mitchell Robinson
could work his way into the equation.
Speaker 2: Even well, what is yeah if if the minutes are
I think he would be subject to like.
Speaker 1: I think the answer should be no, I don't I
just set.
Speaker 2: Up by you set up in denial. That was like
the Lucy and the Football thing.
Speaker 1: I just it's too tough to get to the appearances
in the minutes, and it feels like he's not gonna play,
not only not play back to backs, but there just
might be he's already missed time for load management, which
I think is smart. But I also don't like. What
would the Knicks have to be defensively for people to
take notice of someone playing twenty three to twenty five
minutes a game of that three right, And he's just
not like I would think like Gobert would still have
more of it. But Mitchell, you know what I mean?
Does that make any sense? Like he's just not on
the level of some of these same bigs. To me, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Think the lesson is I got it. I can't just
automatically yes, Andy, because I might just get just smacked.
Speaker 1: It's nice. Were you considering my field? Did you really
want to say, well, hell no, but you were trying
to play, Kate, I was.
Speaker 2: Gonna have some questions about the well you said sixty
five games, and so then I'm like, well, I don't know,
but the minutes are aren't going to be there. Let's
get to dark horses. This is kind of fun.
Speaker 1: Who is I have?
Speaker 2: I have Toomani Kamara? Who I think. I don't know
where he finished. Did he make an All Defensive team
last year?
Speaker 1: I think maybe he did finished second?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So maybe this isn't quite enough of a
dark horse, but I think Portland's defense could be nails.
I think it could be really good. And I think
he's the best defender on that team. I think he's
among wings. It's like you got the Thompsons, you got
Jade McDaniels, you got herb Jones, you got all the
usual suspects, and Kamara is just like he's as good
as all those guys. Maybe not as good as like
Aman Thompson was last year, but right right there. So
I just wanted his name on there as someone who
could win it. If Portland, you know, mildly exceeds my
expectations and instead of a top ten defense is like
fourth or third, I think there's a way for him
to get it.
Speaker 1: You know, I love Tamani Kamara. I like that pick.
I think Og just as we're talking about some of
the most versatile defenders in the NBA, there is Tamani
kamaras on there. I think bam Adebayo's on there. I
don't think og receives enough credit. Probably not. If you
want someone Wo's gonna do a lot of the rim
protection stuff, that's not going to be him scaling up
to that. But if the Knicks are just for some reason,
maybe because they're starting with Duel Biggs, maybe they are
using mchal bridges away from the point of attack more.
If the defense is good enough and he's doing all
the Ogiannoobe things that people can take notice of, maybe
he could creep in there. Again, this is not We
don't think he's gonna finish top three to five on
the ballot. That's the entire point of this.
Speaker 2: Yep, there you go.
Speaker 1: We are on too. Rookie of the Year grant who
we got?
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess the question really is is this
the like, what are we talking about leader? Or is
a defensive Player of the Year in Wemby Because it's
Cooper Flag, It's just not even like he's just it's
almost unanimous. I don't know who's saying anyone other than him.
If you took if it was Cooper Flag versus the field,
I think Flag might still be the pick. So no
shock I have him first. There maybe not a shock
to Dylan Harper. Second. I just he's got a limited
sample in the preseason, just kind of looks like he
can play. And if dearon Fox misses significant time, it's
kind of his team to run. So you know you're
gonna be high profile playing with Wemby. There should be
easy buckets to be had to be assisted on, I
guess I should say. And then Ace Bailey third gonna
get all he can eat, Like the Jazz need this
guy to be the guy. So it'll be a volume
Rookie of the Year campaign. I don't think he's going
to be that efficient, but if he's a twenty point
scorer in this class, I think that that's good enough
for a third place spot on my ballot.
Speaker 1: That was I had Ace number two in part because
of the volume, and I think there's just again I
don't want to talk too much about Will Hardy, but
if he does enough inventive things. On offense. Maybe Bailey
is not just scoring twenty points a game, but he's
doing it in the preseason. He's shooting like, what sixty
two and forty percent from three. I don't want to
play too much stock in that, but a lot of jumpers,
right Cooper flag number one. There's just the no notes there.
I honestly, if he has a bad offensive season, do
you think it opens the door it does be able
to be so good on defense it won't matter.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know what a bad offensive season
even looks like for him, just because you know he'd
be shoots thirty percent from three or something like that,
like that that kind of.
Speaker 1: Thing, or like below fifty percent on twoes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, don't you think maybe the fact that
he seems to be getting reps at point guard like
he's gonna so if he even if he does have
a bad offensive season, I think you'll be able to say, like, well,
the MAVs were clearly playing him out of position. The
ask is just so big, you know, like they just
it's it's unreasonable. He should be inefficient or something, and
then the defense will just be that good.
Speaker 1: I think I went with konk Nipple at number three.
He is going to start it looks like right away
for Charlotte. If not by the end of the year,
I think he will be. And that was that was
what I have Dylan Harper on my like short five list.
I just wonder what his role will be for the
full strength Spurs, which is why I couldn't have him
too high up there. I do agree with you that
I think when we talk about worrying about the Spurs
guard dynamic, I worry the least of the three about
Dylan Harper's fit. Is that stupid?
Speaker 2: Uh No, because he can.
Speaker 1: Well I'll tell you why. It's he can he can
sell you.
Speaker 2: Oh no, No, I'm gonna beat this one right back
at you. Uh No, Because like the Fox, health and
shooting concerns are real, Castle shooting concerns are real. Also,
he's maybe not actually a point guard. Harper just looks
like he could play one or one or two. I
think he's gonna be able to shoot and just is like,
I don't know, he seems he doesn't seem like a
rookie in a lot of key ways. So I think
he's he's like the guy that'll figure it out. You know,
if his fit isn't great to start, so I do
think he's gonna be I think he's gonna be really good.
I don't know. I don't so big revelation there. The
number two pick is gonna be really good.
Speaker 1: That's what you've been just dropping hot take after hot
take or not even We're not even thirty five minutes.
In other names, I can say, but just with K Nipple,
I think the shooting is gonna translate and that the
totals will be there. I think he has some on
ball jiggle and joggle to him. Maybe some of the
playmaking numbers will take up too. I also consider Trey Johnson.
That feels like sort of a pure scoring case. We
turn around, it's, oh, Trey Johnson's averaging twenty plus points
per game for the Wizards. VJ. Edgecomb, I assume is
gonna play a lot for the Sixers, and he is.
He's fun. I think if you're looking from an entertainment perspective,
is there a chance he ends up? Maybe Cooper Flag
is just gonna win the entertainment value. But I could
see VJ. Edgecombe being like the most entertaining rookie. I
say that Jan Hanson. How much is he gonna play
in Portland? He could beat the most entertaining rookie.
Speaker 2: That that's a Donovan Clinging injury away from things getting
real exciting, Just just to just throw him out there,
because if offense is the problem, maybe his passing like
unlocks things for the Blazers they wouldn't get to otherwise. Uh,
that that was gonna be minus. I don't really believe it.
But if I'm rooting for it, like I'm rooting.
Speaker 1: For him for Donovan Clingon injury, that's yeah, that's why
I don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, get him out of the way. He might be
good too.
Speaker 1: It was just one of the nets first round picks, right,
But Yegor Demon if they put the ball in his
hands enough, might have the numbers. And one that I
don't think you can even He's probably a longer than
long shot. But the heat, like their injuries, are just
piling up so much, including to him, and their lack
of like Casper's shack and shonas he throws some of
the most audacious passes I have seen for a rookie,
and so I'm rooting for him to get minutes somehow,
But I don't know if he'll have the like even
if he gets a role. You have Norman Powell there,
you have Tyler Hero. I don't know what his path
to playing enough minutes and getting enough volume to be
Rookie of the Year would.
Speaker 2: It's got to be Heroes just out for longer and
like Mitchell can't score at all or something. So you know,
there's there's ways that you said it. It's kind of
like a darker than dark horse, longer than long shot pick.
Speaking of shall we get to our actual long shots?
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me go with mine first. I have Neet
Clifford and Sacramento, and I feel like I shouldn't select
him because the Kings only do bad things and that's
not a shot at Neat Clifford. But I think he's
one of the most well rounded players in this draft class.
If he wanted him to, he could run some point.
They will not need him to because all they have
his guards on that team. But the things he can
do defensively, I don't know how much further up the
positional spectrum he can guard, but he's absolutely someone A
lot of the perimeter players the other team his best option.
You could have him go there. I think He's a
pretty good even without the ball, like he will make
quick decisions off it, he will move, he should be
able to space, and I think like he's not going
to be someone that stops the offense, even if he's
part of this like more of just second units or
whether he's playing with the Stars, he will get off
the ball quickly. And with the Keegan Murray injury, I
think it opens the door for him to play more
minutes out the gate and put himself on the radar
to the point where one, then it makes it harder
for the Kings not to play him when they are
closer to full strength, and then two it does kind
of ensure that people will still be talking about him
moving forward.
Speaker 2: I mean, his opportunities are there the Murray injury, just
like they don't the Kings couldn't. Murray was irreplaceable, I mean,
except now knee Clifford has to replace him. I think
as like just the bigger forwardy wingye type player that
they really don't have that might.
Speaker 1: Be able to hold, that will work his way into
the mix.
Speaker 2: Is it twenty seventeen maybe then maybe then I like
that pay. I just think opportunity matters a ton like
he'll be he'll be in the rookie he'll be like
in an all rookie team. I think like unless he
just because he has to play, he has to play.
Speaker 1: He should the Kings they might find a way.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. They wouldn't That's like they wouldn't need
him to play if they weren't the Kings and put
together a sensible roster. So does that also mean that
because they're the Kings they won't play him like that?
Maybe maybe that's the biggest hurdle.
Speaker 1: But in all actuality, you think when Keegan Murray's healthy,
you believe that he has to play still.
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously more so without Murray, but even with
like I think I forget I've said this before, like
between Keon Ellis and Nie Clifford and Keegan Murray, those
are like the three guys that can sort of give
the Kings semi sensible lineups that have like a little
bit of balance and a little bit of two way play.
And and Ellis is just a smaller player, so he
can't really take those types of minutes away from Clifford
and Murray. So if I'm trying to put the best
and the Kings are trying to win now, obviously, because
what else is this roster gonna do. I think I
think Clifford is like a just a critical gap filler
because he does stuff that the that like the Levines
and DeRozan's and Sabonises and Shrewd like those guys don't
do the things they need him to do.
Speaker 1: You know, we're also not considering, since it's the wildcard
portion of it is that what if he just gets
traded with the Monta Sabonis to the Bulls for Vouch
and Kobe White, that it'll be on Chicago with all
the opportunity in the world perfect and.
Speaker 2: Then he's got to get over Patrick Williams, and I
think he can do it. Uh So mine my pick
is Liam McNeely. Just it's deep enough down the draft
that it like does it's a very clear like he
might be in the G League, uh in you know,
a month end of the season, but between just it's
sort of a little bit like the Clifford case where
I kind of like mcneelily as someone that can can
give you real offensive punch, like the defense will be iffy,
but like as a as a shoot pass connector good
size like I don't know, Like they'll probably give to
John Salon plenty of minutes. Again, like Miles Bridges is there,
Brandon Miller could play up as a bigger wing if
you wanted him to. Like, there's definitely guys in the way.
I just kind of liked some of the preseason flashes
I saw from him, and just as like as someone
to bet on, why not someone that was a super
high high school recruit. Did you went to mont Verd
Like was one of those guys. It was just like
kaream of the crop in his high school class didn't
shoot it as well as maybe everyone would have expected
at Yukon, And I think that hurt him because it's like, oh,
not super duper athletic white forward that didn't shoot it, Well,
what are we doing? It's like, well, it was just
one year in Yukon. Maybe that wasn't the best system.
So I think I think he's got some real skill.
Whether he gets a crack at showing that hard to say.
With Charlotte, he should shouldn't.
Speaker 1: Should The Nets be concerned that only one of their
five first round picks made it, but both of Charlotte's
first round picks made it. For the Rookie of the
year the nets.
Speaker 2: I think if you did, what if your wild card
or your dark horse was just like a net since
they clearly just drafted all those guys like together, if
you just you get you get the the all five.
Speaker 1: We're putting like including demon in there because it's just
then our top eight pick. We're including as a dark
horse right on the one that I gave some thought to,
And if you were coaching the team, I actually might
have just put him on my ballot. Walter Clayton Junior.
I just don't know how much he's gonna play in
Utah through and to or how long it takes for
them to get to a minute. But he might be
a fun dark horse too.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna be surprised when he wins that job.
I mean it's gonna take like he's all he's gonna
have to do is defend halfway decently and make thirty
six percent of his threes, like over the first couple
weeks of the season, and then we're we talking about
it because I just think Collier and George have too
many like glaring. Listening to Sarah Todd on the on
the look Ahead, it's like really soured me on George,
so I'm ready to just move on. I think if
I'm the Jazz.
Speaker 1: Speaking of moving on, can you take us through your
most improved Player ballot?
Speaker 2: Yes? I can, Dan, So my Thompson is gonna be
a different a different thing. You're Thompson just just for funzies,
I worry that a Men Thompson has maybe just the
case of everyone catching up late. But a little bit
of a leap happened last year, not to say one
can't happen this year. I think it's possible. I don't
think a Sar Thompson has quite the same standing among
you know, people predicting these kinds of awards, So I
think like there's every chance that at the end of
this season we view him similarly. Now maybe that maybe
that's a little bit of a stretch, Like the playmaking
would have to get a lot better, he'd have to
make some shots, like but men Thompson didn't make any
shots last year, and you know, his star really rose,
So I'm going with the star. I think defensively he's
as about as good as it gets and should get
to play. And I just athletically like he's just if
he plays. He's gonna be a great defender and maybe
we get steps offensively, and that's how how you get here.
The other two guys are kind of two different stripes
of most improved candidates. One is nem Hard and just
the role Andrew Nemhard. The role is gonna be enormous,
probably too big, because he's gonna have to run the
offense and guard the other team's best scoring threat in
the back court. That's a lot. But I think he's
just gonna have the opportunity, and I think he's good
enough to like make a lot of it and people
will realize, oh, actually this is a starting point guard
in the NBA. The last guy's Danny Avdia. The breakout
already happened, but nobody was paying attention to the Blazers
after the All Star break last year. So this is
me saying he'll basically be close to that guy for
a full season and everyone will decide that, like year
over year, the leap is enough for a third spot here.
Speaker 1: I love the ASR pick and will celebrate that. The Nemhard,
I just don't know how much better he can be
on offense without Tarre's Haliburton, and if he has to
maintain his defensive workload, especially with who do you trust
to press on that team now with the McConnell injury, right,
it's gonna Shepherd of course, so that's something to watch.
I do like to pick Danny Avvia. That is a
good point. I'm just wondering how much now, if you
were to take the whole oh who was paying attention
last year out of the equation, how much better do
you think denni Ava can get based off last year?
I did this thing which I feel like I never do,
but do you remember the year that Tyrese Maxi won.
It did not feel I don't think either of us
picked him, but did not feel that he was sort
of preordained coming into the season as the next most
improved player. I feel the same way about Aman Thompson.
My Thompson I should call him from non except I
actually believe that that's okay because the defense. I don't
know what he could do to get better on defense.
Is it just he's going one on five and winning
the possessions. Sure. Yeah, offensively though, there's room for him
to improve. I'm not talking about the addition of a
three point shot, but like, can he attack from different
angles with the ball. Can he get a little bit
of the floater going if he does any of that?
And then if he's also just the counting stats or
skyrocketing because of the way that the rockets are set
up post Van Fleet injury, is it outside the roman
possibility that he's averaging twenty points and seven assists per
game and maybe a lot of those are coming in transition,
but he could do something like that. And if he
just if you if we start viewing him independent of
his defense as oh, a really useful offensive player, that's
that becomes hutus case. I have Wemby too. What do
you think about that?
Speaker 2: I think there's no award. You can't put Wemby on
the top three four Coach of the Year.
Speaker 1: Don't you feel year three and year four players are
catting it for this award? And I know that Wemby
has been just mentioned as a Defensive Player of the
Year candidate. We both had him on our MVP ballots.
But he's not even in his prime yet. And so
if he comes out and for some people have oversimplified
his offense always taking too many threes, well, he's getting
to the paint more now and they're doing more things
with him on the ball, and he's stronger. You mentioned
the turnovers will be there, But what if what if
he's just better across the board? What if he runs
away with defensive Player of the Year and the Spurs
are like a top three or four defense. I don't
know how likely that is, but he's still at the
point where he is only going to get better and
so offensively is what I zero went on and say,
if we see the assist numbers come up, maybe the
handle gets a little bit better. I know that it's
always going to be touch and go because of his size.
If he's generating more of his own offense, more of
the offense for other guys, and the bigger thing I
come back to is just the deep paint touches on
the ball, not even I mean maybe even as a
screener en roller. But he's developed chemistry already. We mentioned this.
I don't know what on the over underpod we've seen
some stuff with him and Luke Cornett. I just I
know it feels too smack you in the face. But
this isn't circa Steph Curry being unanimous MVP and trying
to make that case for most improved player. This is
no someone in here three Shu I did, which again
is fine, but don't those campaigns tend to lose weight
or just be sort of shrugged off because it's oh,
it's Steph Curry was going into year three. The fact
that he's a household name, I don't know if it
works against him as much in this.
Speaker 2: Right, No. I think the argument the pushback would be, well,
the bar is already so high, like everyone already thinks
the world of him. But it's just like, well, you
need to expand your imagination a little bit because you're
assuming that this bar, that what he's done right now,
like that counts as a high bar for him, which
actually may just not be the case. If he is
the type of generational you know, just he could win MVP,
right like, he could win MVP, And if he wins MVP,
he has to be most improved because you know that
he wasn't close to that last year except you know,
when he was healthy.
Speaker 1: That's I'm gonna put it on record now, wemb Yama
top five in the Triple Crown of MVP, MP DPO.
I'm getting so choked up over how excited AND's sure.
I am of it.
Speaker 2: Totally, totally possible.
Speaker 1: Guy Peyton Prichard. This is interesting because I don't know
how many more minutes he's gonna play. He was over
twenty eight last year. I assume he'll be comfortably over
thirty this year. With Notatum no Drew Holliday there, and
the way he can shoot, the way he can grab rebounds.
He will try on defense, I think, yes, I was
talking about this with Bobby Manning of CLNLS Media. He
will have more defensive attention on him, but he's not
going to be the primary defensive focus ever, and he
can make things happen for himself and others when he
gets into the lane, maybe we see the shots and
the drives over coming out of drives, and the drives
overall go up. This is another guy where if he
hits like twenty points per game because he shoots so
efficiently from the floor and they just don't have a
lot of other facilitators on this team. Oh, look at
Peyton Pritchard averaging twenty five and five on otherworldly efficiency.
I'm not ruling it out. And if he's there, he's
probably entering the MIP discussion.
Speaker 2: I think a couple good stats in his favor. Just
per thirty six. Last year, Pritchard was eighteen five and four,
So like, if he's the same guy, he's getting there.
I think, like what if? What if he just leads
the league in three point makes? Like why not? Like
that's totally the way the Celtics play and the way
he can shoot it. I think that should be a goal,
you know, and it's a it's an achievable one. Yeah,
twenty five and five for Pritchard, I mean that will
be viewed as a massive improvement just because what he
averaged last year, like fourteen four and four.
Speaker 1: Yeah, around that.
Speaker 2: Twenty might be the magic number for him. If he
gets to twenty, think he's going to be really in
the running for this.
Speaker 1: Just to throw some other names that aren't quite I
think super dark horses. Peyton Watson might be a super
dark horse. Everyone's a super dark horse and that might
pay Trey Murphy in New Orleans that's another one. Did
people notice the improvement last year? And how much goods
you get this year? Jabari Smith Jr. Maybe he tightens
the handle and the scoring goes up Without Van Fleet.
Benan mcmathrin is just sort of the you pick nemhard
Er Mathrin from the Pacers team without tyres Halburton. You
already mentioned a star Thompson the other name I considered
going to my dark horse room. I really like nikoviy Yovic,
but I wondered if I was falling in love with
the idea of his baseline is already so low kind
of just because of the volume we've seen over his
first three years. But that would be another name. If
he's healthy, which right now he's sealing with back stuff
that I think he's gonna start so like, the numbers
just might be there.
Speaker 2: You see, you said Ben Matheren, right, Like, it's just
he's got to be there. I think you could go
deeper on the Pacers, like just because the opportunities may
be there, like Obi Toppin Ben Shephard, Like what if
what if either of those guys just gets j four
minutes a night per minute monster Jay huff, Yeah, twenty
ten and three blocks per thirty six. Probably I'm just
making these numbers up, I mean, yeah.
Speaker 1: From per minute monster to per game monster. I guess
you would have a pretty good case.
Speaker 2: Right, just because I only choose Blazers shading sharp like
if he just becomes like a full on all star
shooting guard type of player. I mean, again, we're getting
the kind of dark horse territory, but not true dark horse,
because that's where're going right now. You're so on brand.
Uh just looking at the graphics. I went with Max Christie,
this is again dark horse. I think there's a chance
that they that the Mavericks just decide we can't have
Cooper flag in, D'Angelo Russell, and I guess certainly not
Klay Thompson and probably not Nausei. Marshall like chasing around
ones and two us on defense, and clearly this is
a defensively oriented team. I think Christy can guard those guys,
or at least I'm intrigued to see him get a
shot at it. And he was really good on both
ends initially after the trade last year and then really
fell off. I wonder if there's a forty three point
shooter that can guard ones, twos and threes and maybe
do even a little bit with the ball once in
a while, And if he's that guy, I could see
I could see him getting some real consideration. A lot
of ifs in there, obviously, but that's that's the portion
of the ballot we're on.
Speaker 1: I don't. I think a lot of the on ball
stuff would need to come together. And I don't view
for that guy. But are the Mavericks set up to
give him that opportunity just because of a lack of alternatives?
Will Kyrie's out? I don't, well, like, are they going
to be more inclined to try him out on the
ball after Cooper Flagg than A I mean they have
d Lo but who else? Like do you want ante
exam on the ball? A bunch jaydon Hardy feels like
an afterthought there now.
Speaker 2: I think just the defense gets him on the floor,
and then if he can prove any if he can
also space and maybe score and transition and I don't know,
run eight. He's not gonna be like a guy that
runs pick and rolls. I don't think that's in the cards.
But you see that I can see the vision as
Niko I.
Speaker 1: Say, I have two I have two wild cards and
it's kind of a joke on brand but also serious.
Reed Shepherd, I don't we haven't seen a second year
player win it since Monte Ellis, And I don't know
if the fact that Reed Shepherd's working off such a
low baseline helps or hurts? Would you rather give it
to someone who's a sophomore that showed more last year?
So the improvement in theory was harder, but the role.
If he's still like headlining the Rockets rotation in March,
something good has probably happened with him. So just I
circled his name, My more real wildcard is on Yekakungu.
I think that he is. So you have Jalen Johnson
and Christops Porzingis in the front court. Mogay too can't
forget about him. But I think when you're looking at
those three, Akungu is gonna be the one that plays
more with the other than either of those two because
he's just functionally malleable. And if we've already seen things
that he could do when he catches the ball in
the middle of the floor, has some moves with the
ball in his hands. We know about the defensive excuse
me versatility. If the three point shot continues to come together,
like he's getting out to the corners and we've seen
him get there, if the efficiency can tick up, it
wouldn't surprise me. If he's playing more minutes, and this
is someone who's Oh, he's got like eighteen points a game.
He's got like three or four assists, and so that's
someone one of those mid career like maybe he's too
deep in the career for other players, but hey, that's
why he's in the dark horse slash wild card spot.
Speaker 2: I think I love the argument for him as as
our part of the argument being that nobody was pay
attention thing because people are gonna look and see he's
got thirty two percent on like pretty low volume from
three over the full course of last season, but he
was thirty eight percent after the break on more volume,
and so like the growth sort of happened, and he'll
just carry it over to a full season now and
everybody will think, oh my god, Like this guy learned
how to shoot over the summer. That's an you know,
like the case. The case kind of is pretty easy
to see coming together for him for that reason.
Speaker 1: And this is the first time defensively specifically, this is
the first well, we don't even know if we're gonna
get to see it. We've never seen him in this role,
a higher volume role with a relatively healthy supporting cast
around him. Is he gets more minutes last year, like
Jalen Johnson's not playing by that point, so he's just
a player that I'm gonna be fascinated by this year.
Are you ready to take us through your sixth Man
of the Year ballot? All right?
Speaker 2: I love how different we are on this one, which
shows that nobody knows what a six man is. So
I went Brandon Pajemski as my first pick. We talked
a lot on the Warriors Pod about how like they
just need somebody, anybody to be a secondary offensive creator,
particularly for the bench, which is what's relevant for this role.
He seems best situated to do that, except Moses Moody
is already hurt and is questionable for the opener, and
so maybe Pajemski will be a starter. But that kind
of helps here. And that's kind of what I did
with my whole ballot, is I want the guy that's
gonna start a bunch and then still qualifies for six
man because they'll have crazy numbers. It always seems to
be helpful. I want a guy that I can imagine
starting and closing, and that's kind of true for all
three of these players. So Pajemski won. Nikkeil Alexander Walker two.
I think he's gonna close for Atlanta. I think there's
gonna be a lot of situations where he's out there
next to Trey Young, and maybe it's not Daniels, and
maybe it's not Resa sche because he gives you the
two way stuff. He can do stuff with the ball,
he can shoot three like he's He's easy to imagine
there Josh Hart for three, assuming he doesn't start, which
presumably he won't. I don't know. Might have gone with
Dull bride if duce McBride were guaranteed to be a
bench guy. I just think I think as much as
we love the Knick's new depth, they do sort of
have like seven starters, and so I want one of
those guys on my ballot because any one of them
could close games and see twenty five thirty minutes a night.
Speaker 1: I think Heart is the right pick to where he'll
probably not start as much like if Mitchell Robinson needs
a rest, maybe they insert duce McBride, or do they
go with Ariel hawk Porty. I just between the back
issues doing the finger splint. Thats why I couldn't get
there with him the Nwklexander Walker, I have him third.
I think that's just a really good pick. He's I
try to look at guys, so I think we'll come
off the bench enough. But I could envision also closing
enough games. So he's he's, he's that and is Some
of his counting numbers might go up because Atlanta's secondary
ball handling is all over the place. Who are they
going to use a lot in that capacity? Pods? If
he wins six manut of the Year? How good are
the Warriors at that point?
Speaker 2: Though it depends on if the Well, Yeah, if he
wins six Man of the Year probably means the old
guys stayed healthy too, So right, the answer is very good.
Speaker 1: I would say I have Cason Wallace number one. I
don't know. The closing game stuff gets a little bit
iffy with him, but I think that they'll be. He
might have enough starts, or he just might get enough
minutes to where his numbers are going to be used.
There's a lot to plumb there offensively to where it's okay.
Like the three pointers, I think we'll go back to
following at a more of a higher clip. I think
he can do some things with the ball in his hands,
especially when the floor is based out and he has
the driving lanes. This is someone who's gonna get to
like the twenty plus twenty five plus minute threshold the
game semi consistently. I just I'll take I think we've
moved not that we've moved away, but isn't it more
likely than ever now that it doesn't need to be
this and your ballot reflects that. I think mine reflects
that it doesn't need to be this high volume microwave
score to win the sixth Man of the Year.
Speaker 2: It's not Lou Williams Jamal Crawford necessarily anymore.
Speaker 1: My number two pick I don't love because I was
worried he was gonna start too many games. But it
doesn't sound like like the plan is to bring John
Collins off the bench. If I'm wrong there, then that's
a good thing that this isn't middle of the year ballot,
because that would look like a pretty pretty bad pick.
I just he can play next to Zubots, he could
play next to Lopez. Maybe they'll try him out at
the five a little bit. He's gonna rebound a bunch,
he will space, He'll probably guess the moost to where
he could screen and roll. This is just like he
comes in, is he averaging like fourteen points and seven
boards and some moto fish and shooting that could get him?
And is he maybe closing games when the if you're
trying to look at your closing dual big as the Clippers,
you're closing with Zubots and Collins. You're not going Zubots
and Lopez. I would pay to see that, and so
Nikael Alexander Walker third honorable mentions. Before getting to the
to the dark horses here, I also had Who's the
havel hero? Naz Reed, Anthony Simons, Josh Hart was on
my list, Tarry Easton, Dante DiVincenzo, Scottie Pippen Junior, r
J Barrett, Keldon Johnson. This is too dark horse for me,
Jace Richardson Grant Like, if they just decided they need
Scory coming off the bench around actually.
Speaker 2: A really good I think he's gonna play a lot.
I think they need him to play a lot. I
don't think that's too dark horse at all. Rookie for
six man, that's fun.
Speaker 1: I had toppin. I had pods too on my long list,
Jonas mount Cunis, Naji Marshall, Sam Merrill, Duce McBride, Colin Sexton,
Ty Jerome, Peyton Watson could be there, brook Lopez. I
wanted to pick, but with John Collins coming off the bench,
there's just there's no pathway to him playing enough. When
it was John Collinson Zubot starting, it was, oh, the
first big off the bench. That's how you get the minutes.
Speaker 2: I think, like, there's teams I'm focused on. You've mentioned
some guys from them, but still like Memphis for example,
just because you're gonna have bench guys sopping up a
lot of minutes. And you said Scott Jerome, I don't
know if you said him as somebody that like one
of those two backup point cards. Any Clipper, Chris Paul
is someone you might want to think about, Bogdanovich, Sure
Jones or Derek Jones or John Collins, one of the two,
brook Lopez, Like, you could just pick a clipper, pick
a sixer, because between the Maxi, McCain, Edgecombe Grimes group, like,
not all of them are going to start. So I
think I think you just kind of looking at situations
is where I kind of get into my down ballot.
Looks those three teams in particular, who's your wild card,
the one and only Bruce Brown. He's back, and if
the Nuggets bench is as off season award worthy as
everybody seems to think it is, I could see Bruce
Brown just being the same guy he was on the
title team, and I think that's good enough on what
should be a very good team to get some down
ballot consideration. I'm mostly just picking him because he would
fully validate my theory. Not even a theory, it's just
like it's a fact at this point that like, if
you leave Nikola Jokic, life gets a lot worse, and
when you come back to him, everything's better and you're
your best self and you're happier and you're more efficient
and you win awards. So i'd like to see that.
I'd like to see that proven.
Speaker 1: My wild card is gonna be khalil Ware. It seems
like he's They're gonna start Yovic and Bam, which I
think is better for him because he comes off the
bench and then he's basically your primary big on the
offensive end, which will allow him to do things inside
the arc screen more rather than just space in place.
But there'll also be the spacing element from him he
will just have. He should be able to gobble up
rebounds while he's on the court, and that to do
that either way, and then the minutes he plays with
bam like, that's probably where you'll see like, oh, is
he a good rim protector? What are the shop blocking
numbers there for him? He's I talked about this with
Wes Goldberg of Lockdown Heat. I don't have a great
feel for what he could be, but like some of
the flashes make you think that he could be anything
and everything. Him coming off the bench under risbileelstro who's
given him a lot of tough love. If the minutes
are gonna be there, there's a chance that the counting
stats are there as well.
Speaker 2: Yep, I like that pick.
Speaker 1: We are on to Coach of the Year. Everybody's favorite.
Who do you have? Grant?
Speaker 2: So I went with Jamal Moseley. He's also like if
I were doing hot seat rankings, he might also be
number one. So there's a question kind of like Coach
of the Year or else right under the right, and
so I'm going with the Coach of the Year side
of it. Orlando should be way better if they have
the kind of offensive growth that they need to. I
think that will be. I mean, everyone will point to Desmond,
Maine and that'll be partially right, and maybe Paolo gets
better and Franz makes a three, Antias Jones stabilizes the bench,
all that stuff. But I think Mosley will get a
lot of credit, especially if they're really good defensively, again,
because that it's always the coach I think they get.
You get more credit as a coach for defense and offense,
I think sometimes, but if the offense gets I don't know,
fifteenth break even like that, you know, middle of the pack,
he's gonna reflect well on him and that might mean
the Magic win fifty four games. And so I could
see I could just the case coming together. Quinn Snyder's
kind of similar because Atlanta is kind of right there
with Orlando in the expected improvement department, and then David
Adelman this just this seems to happen right like a
you're a kind of a new addition or not even
really because he was an assistant, but like takes over
a team that's already really good, and it seems like
early career coaches tend to win this more often, more
often than you'd think. So I just again, it's kind
of a narrative thing. I know the Nuggets are gonna
be good, and maybe like, oh, that he uses the
bench better, and oh, maybe maybe the offense shoots a
bunch of threes and he gets credit for that after
so many years of not doing that. So I could
I could see him winning it in all these cases
like these are just teams that are gonna be really good.
I don't have Eric Spolstra on my ballot, even though
I think everyone agrees he's one of the three best coaches,
maybe the best in the league. He's just never gonna
win it.
Speaker 1: Uh excuse me, sir. He's number two on my ballot,
which would be the third time he ever finished, and
that's he's never won it, and he's finished second twice,
I believe. Uh So the David Adaman case, I had
him number three. I think if if there's just better
vibes coming out of denver A coupled with oh, he
overhauled the defense and it worked, that's gonna be a
huge case because they'll probably have then won like fifty
seven plus games or whatever it is. Quinn Snyder, I
have him as well. It's like, I think the second
time in three years I've picked him. The Hawks have
more talent. He's already shown that he can use tray
a little bit differently. I think the Hawks are gonna
be good enough to put him on the radar. For Spoelstra,
he's second. This just feels like the coaches I feel
like like to guide the teams that don't have those
crippling expectations, like you want to be at the highest
level and get to a title. But we saw Greg
Popovich get reinvigorated in San Antonio when they kind of
finally pivoted out of the mediocre error. The Heat are
sort of caught in between. But you've given him a
bunch of flyers and young guys and experimental pieces if
they can have a good offense and then also like
a good defense while playing Norman Powell and Tyler Hero
together a bunch, and Yovic is getting a ton of minutes,
his case will be strong. I don't the problem with
Coach of the Year. We said we were to do
this in an hour, so we got to move on.
But there's just I could name you so many names
where it's like Rick Carlisle and Tyres Halliburn's like absence,
Like what about Joe Mizzula with not Tatum, the Celtics
are good. Bickerstaff in Detroit, Mike Brown with the Knicks.
You talk about a new coach coming in and where
the Knicks get that bump? Tylu with the Clippers. There
are so many coaches who like they're not quite dark horses.
You could envision finishing in the top three off this one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can almost make a case for twenty five
different coaches, Like really if you wanted to, and like,
I don't know who I'm excluding. I won't name names
because that's just like feels mean, but you can get there.
What about wildcards? Because this is tricky for that reason.
Who did you go with as your wildcard for Coach
of the Year?
Speaker 1: So I'll stick with what I did with MVP. It's
just what if the Raptors are good, everyone's expecting them
not to be good. We have dark Oroyakovic there. Maybe
he's get like Brandon Ingram shooting more threes and moving
off the ball a ton. The defense is living up
to its its reputation. Scottie Barnes is more efficient if
you just figure out a way to tie the whole
Yaker pertl Ingram, barn RJ. Barrett dynamic, whether it's staggering,
figuring out ways to play them together, that's gonna be
a huge boost in his favor. If the Raptors are
a top six team in the East, would you almost
predict that he winds up finishing top three on the
ballot at that point, And.
Speaker 2: Then there's gonna be some other awards too, like at
least of some high ballot stuff. Yeah, it's interesting. So
I went with Chauncey Billups, and it's kind of a
similar case where there I think both these teams are
viewed similarly in their respective conferences. Both of their strengths
are on defense, all of their questions are on offense.
And the difference is I think Rayakovic kind of still
has the sheen of like, oh, he's pretty tactically clever,
and they have some real offensive principles that he's real
serious about. Chauncey Billups, I don't think anybody regards as
one of the best coaches in the league. So this
is so and I personally don't. But just situationally, if
the Blazers win forty four games and are in the
top six mix or the play in mix at least
and that defense is top five. I think he's gonna
get credit for it. I think I think there's a
real chance that they have an extreme strength and that
gets them farther than most people expect, and and maybe
the offense looks good to you know. I think there's
just a way that the Blazer it's really kind of
a bet on the Blazers more than anything else. And
I think he'll be acknowledged if if that, if that
pans out well for them.
Speaker 1: Is Jordi Fernandez more likely to get Coach of the
Year if the Nets win thirty something games or fired?
Speaker 2: I was like, the second half is better be fired both.
Speaker 1: I don't know who do you have for Executive of
the Year.
Speaker 2: I mean, you gotta go with the team that just
did all the fleecing so Atlanta Hawks on Si Salle
we've had. I can't get over the trade with New Orleans.
I was a huge win. I think the Alexander Walker
signing is or sign and trade is spectacular. Getting porzingis
even Luke Canard. It's just the Hawks kind of won
the offseason in a lot of ways, so it has
to be him for now. We'll see how that pans
out for that is Lawrence frank just be for excellence
and not answering questions. I think we need to honor
that he was really good at dodging all the aspiration
and Uncle Dennis stuff. But like that off season was
also just absurd. The amount of depth that he added
to the Clippers is ridiculous. And then who do I
have here next?
Speaker 1: Oh you Jeff Welman number two? Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, I had Jeff Welman number two. I jumped
right to Lawrence frank I was looking at your side.
The Desmond Bin trade was really bold and getting Tias
Jones like, I think the Magic did what they could
to address the problems we all knew they had, and
so I think if things work out well for them,
Jamal Mosley might be Coach of the Year and Weltman
and Anthony Parker perspectively, that Orlando front office might get
acknowledged too.
Speaker 1: I went with Auntie at number one to the nets.
The Hawks are just one of the biggest offseason winners.
I had Lawrence Frankett two. I'm curious that the stink
of the whole aspiration thing would impact how the Clippers
are viewed, but the actual transaction that they did over
the offseason. You don't love the Norman Powell trade, but
when you look at it in some because it's John
Collins and Bradley Bieler coming, getting Brook Lopez just home
run stuff there, keeping the flexibility in your next James
Harden deal as well. And then I had Rafael Stone
in Houston. I think that you could say he over
indexed on like not guards or ball handlers, like they
just have all these They're not all forwards and bigs,
but they play like forwards and biggs. So there's that element.
But also you got Kevin Durant. It wasn't that big
of a price if you end up being way better.
We love the Jabari Smith extension that could be part
of it. And then also they have amo to do
stuff at the trade deadline as well, once contract once
Fred van Fleet specifically becomes eligible to be traded or
some of the other deals do as well, so the
team could still improve.
Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, any other like down ballot guys. Before we
get to the long shot picks. I mean, I think,
what about Mike That's the one I was gonna point
to for the entire he I just mashed the cominga situation,
got everything they possibly could have wanted was comfortable he
Daryl Morey did, he was comfortable being uncomfortable and you know,
took a It is still not a great situation, but
I think the Warriors come out of it looking about
as good as you can. Horford is kind of like
he wanted to play there. So I don't know how
much credit you give the Warriors for that, but that
that could be one of the most meaningful offseason acquisitions
in the league if it goes right. So he definitely
is up there.
Speaker 1: For me, people will give Brad Stevens credit for the
way he shed money from the Celtics, especially what if
he gets them to duck the tax without giving up
a single like real draft pick. No nobody ever credits
those like it'll be well like, I don't know, I
feel like everybody credits those.
Speaker 2: Well, we do, we do, But it's not like I
think it's when it's like a it's more it's gotta
be more of a presty thing where it's like, look
at all the picks they got from this tear down,
as opposed to look at all the money they saved.
I don't think I don't think that gets rewarded.
Speaker 1: We didn't mention Presty, but no player options on Homegrunner,
jjar The Aj Mitchell and Jaylen william Cock. Now what
if Brooks barnheis theer's all of a sudden on all rookie?
Do we just give the award? Do we rename it
after Sam Presty?
Speaker 2: I mean that raises the question of is there like
Presty and thunder fatigue, Like we can't just give him everything?
I think everybody else, Yes, watch Presty's a wizard. Yeah,
what about the I guess it's Austin Age. It's probably
just Danny Ainge. But like the Bailey pick was ballsy
like that, that wasn't an easy pick to make in
the moment, given all the stuff that was floating around
pre draft. If he if he wins Rookie of the Year,
I don't know, you might think about it.
Speaker 1: I won't because that use of trade was still in it.
Speaker 2: Right, it's still a mystery. We don't know. We don't
know what that was about.
Speaker 1: No one's ever You were listening to the Sarah Todd
episode right where she explained the watch to us, like
still out, I'm still out on it? Ye, who's your
wild Card.
Speaker 2: Ben Tenzer slash uh Jonathan Wallace, John Wallace, it's hard
to say if the Nuggets. This is kind of the
same logic as the Bruce Brown six man dark horse pick,
Like if if this bench actually does give Jokic the
opportunity to rest, then if it does actually not get
absolutely smoked when Yokich isn't on the floor, that's the
thing the Nuggets have never had, and so to do
that with such limited resources now the MPG trade, we're
gonna litigate that forever. You give up an unprotected first,
that's always a rough look for a player that's like
debatably better than the one you gave up. Tough look,
But if Cam Johnson's really good and this bench is
really good, I think the Nuggets then will be really
good and everybody's gonna want to pack these guys on
the back.
Speaker 1: I also had Sean Marx because like we romanticize the
teardowns and it's you got the Nuggets unprotected pick. But
Michael Porter Junior, what if he's healthy and good and
not podcasting during the season the Hayward high Smith trade,
what if they got something for him, and then we'll
get something for moving him. We could look at they
didn't give in to cam Thomas and maybe does he
up his value and they're able to move him and
he's gonna wave his implicit no trade clause. The other
thing is every one we went in depth with Lucas
Kaplan of Nets Daily, so go check out the look
at There's stuff to like about the picks they made,
but everyone was so down on their aggregate draft haul.
What if one or two of those guys just pop
Jaeger Demon's all rookie Nolan Trey Are looks great, Danny
Wolf is doing things while playing all five positions for
some reason, where Benson Raff is playing well. So you
look at that, I feel like there's potential for him
to sneak in. Knowing how we feel about teams that
are just starting their rebuilds, it's ah like, look at
all they've done. If a couple of these rookies wind
up panding out right away, his case gets a lot stronger.
Speaker 2: I think too. If and I'm hoping for this if this,
like one of the things we talk most about with
with Lucas was like this this philosophical basketball experiment of
like the player types that the NETS are targeting and
how they might want to play like kind of pacerz
if and everybody's down on those picks, like in the aggregate,
like you said, if it kind of works and you
can see the nets, like with this emerging style, that
might be kind of like a vanguard, cutting edge like
way to play, and it's because of these rookies, then
it's like, oh, this guy's kind of like he was
ahead of the curve, and that that's really going to
get a lot of attention. I will be paying attention
to it. I guess I don't know what everybody else
will do.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything else or are you ready to
take us out of here? Sir?
Speaker 2: I'm good to go. I think we've sufficiently put ourselves
out there, and.
Speaker 1: I do like doing better after we have sample size
was to work with rather than prediction.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then you have to use things like evidence. I
hate it. Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Make sure
your rate reviews subscribe to you all that stuff. Let
us know how if our wild card picks were too wild,
we're not wild enough. It's gonna do it. Tell your friends,
tell your emmy shops. Franklinili Kein apologies Jared Allen,