Speaker 1: Top lots of productions.
Speaker 2: Still, as the official narrative goes, and and the the
Speaker 2: you know, as far as just the corroborated background of
Speaker 2: the group itself and the members, and and then their
Speaker 2: perspective on Vernon hallll And and David koresh this is
Speaker 2: how the.
Speaker 3: Story goes, and so it's again, according to two other
Speaker 3: members of the group, David would would issue.
Speaker 2: A challenge to people after returning, and he would say,
Speaker 2: this book is sealed with seven seals.
Speaker 1: No man can reveal it.
Speaker 3: I wonder if you might let him show you.
Speaker 2: Oh what.
Speaker 4: Frozen over the coastal burns underneath muskin. The water is
Speaker 4: rising all around and there is.
Speaker 5: Nothing loft I can do.
Speaker 6: I said, I saw you said like that die? They
Speaker 6: say that God die. Now using day waned died died,
Speaker 6: doesn't read.
Speaker 1: That many of the people in the residents were homicide victims.
Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Jose Galisan. Welcome to another No way, Jose,
Speaker 1: We're doing an episode on the Waco Weirdness with Austin Picard.
Speaker 1: By that, I mean this is a follow up to
Speaker 1: our recent Waco episode we did. And with going into
Speaker 1: the Waco episode, we kind of looked, went back through
Speaker 1: it with new eyes alas Austin did more particularly, so
Speaker 1: there was a lot of a lot of new kind
Speaker 1: of not regularly treaded information or maybe seen under new
Speaker 1: eyes to have a new use. And so but we
Speaker 1: figured as we were covering it in our you know,
Speaker 1: as since that was the original or last time we
Speaker 1: covered it was meant to be like a thirty second
Speaker 1: I believe anniversary, and it just felt not appropriate to
Speaker 1: really be kind of treading over it would have made
Speaker 1: it like a way too long of anp episode. Plus
Speaker 1: it just kind of felt like, you know, just for
Speaker 1: the sake of what we were trying to do, just
Speaker 1: a you know, an anniversary episode, kind of stick to
Speaker 1: the main points, maybe a little bit new stuff ish.
Speaker 1: But then we decided we'd taken another separate episode and
Speaker 1: really really dive into that, and that's what we're doing here.
Speaker 1: But before we get into that, I do need to
Speaker 1: take a moment to pay the pills and let you
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Speaker 1: get into the show. Let's get Austin in here, and
Speaker 1: let's get to it. What's up, brother, how you doing?
Speaker 4: D Man?
Speaker 2: I do want to start out by saying, first off,
Speaker 2: is obviously like with the narrative that we're kind of
Speaker 2: going to pursue and at least fall down this strange
Speaker 2: rabbit hole. In terms of Waco itself and this alternative theory.
Speaker 2: What's very interesting to me is that the ultimate conclusion
Speaker 2: remains the same. This still is ultimately one of the
Speaker 2: all time best examples of what your government is capable of,
Speaker 2: right and so like, at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: no matter if the kind of our original starting point
Speaker 2: from just the recent anniversary episode where we covered the
Speaker 2: base and really UH illustrated the foundational principles of what
Speaker 2: mattered most and in terms of Waco, like, this is
Speaker 2: not at all, in my mind casting any any shadow
Speaker 2: over the victims in a negative way. I think, if
Speaker 2: if anything, it would be UH providing us an optimistic
Speaker 2: window into reinforcing the reality of this, this very strange
Speaker 2: clandestine network that as we continue to spotlight and and
Speaker 2: UH and and as far as within the context of
Speaker 2: our research it really does this almost proves positive of
Speaker 2: our our strange gladio everything theory. Yes, brother, like I
Speaker 2: know that this isn't this is not something that I
Speaker 2: I initially intended to ever consider. And and again this
Speaker 2: is a newly found alternative theory, so and not at
Speaker 2: all something that I went out of my way to pursue,
Speaker 2: like it fell into my lap due to my natural
Speaker 2: process of pulling at those tugging at those threads of
Speaker 2: investigative interest, and you know, inevitably I wound up in
Speaker 2: the dystopian land of mind control, right, which unfortunately seems
Speaker 2: to be all too often reoccurring.
Speaker 7: In my life.
Speaker 1: But but I guess that kind of works as a
Speaker 1: good bridge into I think where we want to start,
Speaker 1: which is kind of I think, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of you know, me and you we kind of claw
Speaker 1: at the veil a lot of the time of our research.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, when we talk about demon possession,
Speaker 1: that might be you know, what was MK Ultra was
Speaker 1: in the past, you know, so I think, you know,
Speaker 1: so it's worth analyzing the woo woo at hand here
Speaker 1: with the branch Davidians and some of the stuff with
Speaker 1: Kuesha's past.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I amily he did, from my recollection take a trip
Speaker 1: to Israel and then come back, and that's when he
Speaker 1: decided to change his name from I think Vernon Howell
Speaker 1: to David Koresh. Obviously we talked last episode, but the
Speaker 1: symbolic significance of all of that, but it is like, uh,
Speaker 1: it just kind of seems like there's some sort of
Speaker 1: root here, which you know, when you do get into
Speaker 1: these weird you know, obviously we already said it, Gladio,
Speaker 1: there does seem to be when you get to the
Speaker 1: tippy top of these things weird. I mean, once you
Speaker 1: start getting a little bit of the monarch blurn in there,
Speaker 1: you get some weird esoteric occult stuff going on here
Speaker 1: that you're like, I don't know what the hell this is.
Speaker 1: So I mean, when you start going further, you start
Speaker 1: learning Cabbala type stuff. And now we're talking about some
Speaker 1: dude in some sort of cult that's going to Israel
Speaker 1: and getting information revealed to him, and uh, call me crazy,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm a little bit conspiratorial here, but uh my
Speaker 1: head starts opinion when I hear these sorts of things. So,
Speaker 1: I just if you've since the last time we and
Speaker 1: we touched on that a tiny bit in our last episode,
Speaker 1: But is there anything in this realm that you feel
Speaker 1: like with their bear significance rehashing before we get into
Speaker 1: some of the other things, because yeah, this is the
Speaker 1: lead up before all of it. So but it's like,
Speaker 1: I think this is important, Like this is some sort
Speaker 1: of theological something, whether this is whether we want to
Speaker 1: be cynical, parapolitical you know, analytics analytic analyzers and be like,
Speaker 1: well this was a but like I don't know whether
Speaker 1: it's wu wu or it's not. Something happens, something will
Speaker 1: happen there, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And ovi significance, this isn't as far into like the esoteric,
Speaker 2: you know, sort of theoretical landscape as as you might think. Like, honestly,
Speaker 2: what what I've discovered is is seemingly a very very
Speaker 2: plausible alternative alternative theory that that seems to also play
Speaker 2: perfectly into the framework of what was what was being
Speaker 2: being covertly pursued at the time.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: And considering this ties in even even the Oklahoma City bombing,
Speaker 2: which I found very interesting as far as just like
Speaker 2: how they would potentially have uh you know, yeah, and
Speaker 2: and also how they they seemingly developed this this uh
Speaker 2: this device, this bomb that they also wanted were attempting
Speaker 2: to do. There's an't there's a very interesting aspect to
Speaker 2: that as well, which we'll get into. But but there
Speaker 2: seems to be a tie in which also brings in
Speaker 2: Timothy mcveay very strangely. But but uh, but of course, uh,
Speaker 2: there's there's something I discovered about his potential mentoring and
Speaker 2: candidate connections that I was unaware of until recently as well,
Speaker 2: which I thought you would be so fascinated by it,
Speaker 2: and uh, if you hadn't already been exposed to it.
Speaker 2: But but what I will say is that to begin with,
Speaker 2: by the way, you want to go all the way
Speaker 2: back to like the the history of David David himself
Speaker 2: or Vernon right when when he's he's when he's a
Speaker 2: young man, you know, he's legitimately.
Speaker 1: Just yeah, who's his daddy? That's any I mean with
Speaker 1: all these weird breeding stuff going on with these glowies,
Speaker 1: like who the fuck is this dude's daddy? So obviously
Speaker 1: that's the starting point, you know.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And by the way, his his mother in sixty four
Speaker 2: married a marine by the name of Roy Haldeman, all right,
Speaker 2: And this was interesting to me, and I would like
Speaker 2: to look deeper into his personal connections because it seems
Speaker 2: as if you know, you know, that this would put
Speaker 2: them in a very disruptive, chaotic position. And as far
Speaker 2: as like terms of his childhood and so his real mother,
Speaker 2: by the way, was wasn't even revealed to him, right
Speaker 2: as far as like the truth about his real mother
Speaker 2: and and things of that nature until he's like five
Speaker 2: years old, wasn't he like he thought he was his
Speaker 2: sister or something where yes, man, it's such a it's
Speaker 2: such a crazy And then so this kind of stages
Speaker 2: his his life experience and in a very interesting way.
Speaker 2: And and so then uh to make this situation, uh
Speaker 2: even worse. So it's at this time in his childhood
Speaker 2: when Koresh is said to have began to be sexually
Speaker 2: abused by one of his mother's male relatives. So that yeah,
Speaker 2: and so in July nineteen, patterns here exactly trauma based
Speaker 2: mind control in a way, if not just traumatic child abuse,
Speaker 2: obviously paving the way for some some sort of yeah
Speaker 2: psychological definitely, you're going to have a pattern that that
Speaker 2: will uh yeah.
Speaker 1: Well I've been ranting on I mean this, I guess
Speaker 1: it will be out by this time. The idea of
Speaker 1: uh monarch and how it might work. It just seems
Speaker 1: like the common theme is it's always like early life,
Speaker 1: something happens, you know, crazy trauma, and then something it's
Speaker 1: like later then they get activated and it's like they're
Speaker 1: they're almost unwitting, like between the two and they almost
Speaker 1: seem like these seem like two unrelated events, but somehow
Speaker 1: it ends up the same result of But it's like,
Speaker 1: I know, we've theorized a little bit about like how
Speaker 1: there would almost need to be some sort of method
Speaker 1: of communication, and some of these weird like Temple of
Speaker 1: Set or the Church of Satan and like the there
Speaker 1: there's the structure of those entities kind of fill that role.
Speaker 1: But maybe also the same could be said of where
Speaker 1: like wherever the hell? Uh, you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: David went in Israel, so like I don't know, that's
Speaker 1: the kind of things, you know, whatever happened to him
Speaker 1: as a young child with his mother's relative and then
Speaker 1: you know, then later in life and he's like, are
Speaker 1: these things connected perhaps? And is that too, skizzo, I
Speaker 1: don't know. But once you've dug into digging sort of
Speaker 1: things we've dug into, you know, like the the coded
Speaker 1: messages for you know, elites to procure children and stuff
Speaker 1: that have like been kind of born out, you're like,
Speaker 1: I think this is kind of how they operate. No, absolutely, And.
Speaker 2: Also it seems like he just had significant issues with
Speaker 2: his stepfather at that point as well, So like to
Speaker 2: me that that strikes me as being something worthwhile in
Speaker 2: pursuing further in some sort of fashion, and just as
Speaker 2: far as research is concerned. And then also on one
Speaker 2: other thing worthwhile and mentioning just before we get further
Speaker 2: into kind of the alternative theory we want to present
Speaker 2: as well as that. Starting with that pilgrimage in eighty
Speaker 2: five where he's witnessing visions, he's nineteen years old, and
Speaker 2: he has an illegal sexual relationship with a sixteen year
Speaker 2: old girl who becomes pregnant, right, and so he never
Speaker 2: saw the resulting daughter, and then the teenage mother thought
Speaker 2: him unfit to be a fog, so she moved away
Speaker 2: and refused to ever see him. So this is when
Speaker 2: he becomes or claim to have become, a born again
Speaker 2: Christian and soon joined his mother's denomination, the Seventh day
Speaker 2: Adventist Church, and so that and then, by the way,
Speaker 2: there's an additional interesting point there because as he turns
Speaker 2: twenty man, he has a sexual relationship with the fifteen
Speaker 2: year old daughter of he begins a two year relationship
Speaker 2: with the daughter of his pastor, and during this courtship
Speaker 2: he's praying, apparently praying for guidance, and he he states
Speaker 2: that none should want for her mate, right, and basically
Speaker 2: is telling the pastor and the father right that Essentially,
Speaker 2: he says that it's really interesting because he's convinced this
Speaker 2: was a sign from God. Apparently koresh when he approached
Speaker 2: the pastor and told him that God wanted him to
Speaker 2: have his daughter for a wife, and that's when he's
Speaker 2: expelled from the church. So I found that part to
Speaker 2: be worth mentioning as well before we get into more
Speaker 2: of because again it like also stages this strange issue
Speaker 2: he's already developed with with. You know, clearly he has
Speaker 2: some sort of proclivity for a younger mate, right, which
Speaker 2: he's he's justifying in biblical scripture, which he claimed. I
Speaker 2: really that kre allegedly dude. Yeah, he says he's praying
Speaker 2: for guidance during their courtship, and this is when he
Speaker 2: allegedly opens his eyes and found the Bible open to
Speaker 2: Isaiah thirty four to sixteen stating that none should want
Speaker 2: for her mate. And this is apparently what convinced him
Speaker 2: that it was asigned from God and what led him
Speaker 2: to approach the pastor and her father and get him
Speaker 2: expelled from the church, so that kind of sets the
Speaker 2: path for David in a very strange way. And then
Speaker 2: David of course claiming visionary experiences right which he reported
Speaker 2: to have experienced a vision when he went to Israel
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty five, and he claimed that he had
Speaker 2: visited Heaven, was acknowledged by God as his son and
Speaker 2: given the ability to see the true meaning of the Bible.
Speaker 2: And in nineteen ninety that's when he filed a legal
Speaker 2: petition to change his name to David Koresh. And so, yeah,
Speaker 2: I found that interesting as well, because based on his
Speaker 2: visionary experience, Koresh claimed that he was the Lamb of Revelation,
Speaker 2: the only person who could unlock the seven Seals of Revelation.
Speaker 2: And in Revelation six, the Lamb takes a book sealed
Speaker 2: with seven seals out of the hand of the one
Speaker 2: on the throne, who is Christ in Koresh's interpretation, and
Speaker 2: opens it. In the future kingdom, the Lamb will be married.
Speaker 2: This will create a quartet of father, mother, son, the Spirit,
Speaker 2: and the flesh Christ the Lamb and his wife for
Speaker 2: perfect mate, who was also an extension of the Spirit.
Speaker 7: So apparently.
Speaker 2: It gets even more interesting because the Branch Davidian sort
Speaker 2: of their ideology, you know, is structured in a way
Speaker 2: where this apparently, this two horned beast or lamb like
Speaker 2: beast of revelation is the United States of America. And
Speaker 2: so that is where you have the United States being
Speaker 2: the primary player in the United Nations according to the
Speaker 2: belief system that they were practicing, which they termed quote
Speaker 2: the Assyrian. And so in the Branch Davidian interpretation of
Speaker 2: the end Times rapture, the Assyrian will enter the Holy
Speaker 2: Land in the land in the last days and interfere
Speaker 2: in God's plans for Jerusalem. God will deal with the Assyrian,
Speaker 2: and everyone not will to acknowledge God will flee the
Speaker 2: Holy Land. The Lord will then establish his kingdom on
Speaker 2: earth with the one hundred and forty four thousand people
Speaker 2: with him at Mount Zion mentioned above. So that's exactly
Speaker 2: how you're dealing with, you know, the modern Babylon Right
Speaker 2: is essentially what's occurring here where you're seeing the ultimate
Speaker 2: right doomsday prophecy take place. As far as what essentially
Speaker 2: begins to happen is that Babylon will persecute God's people
Speaker 2: and what Babylon.
Speaker 1: Coming back from Israel, right, yes, and so the prox
Speaker 1: obviously all three I mean between Islam, Christianity, and you know,
Speaker 1: Christian Judaism, they all kind of have like a dialectic
Speaker 1: when it comes to apocalypses. So it is kind of interesting.
Speaker 1: He goes to the Holy Land and you know, kind
Speaker 1: of have the same dialectic of kind of the same
Speaker 1: basic thing, same goal points. And he comes back and
Speaker 1: now he he's you know, been you know, has this
Speaker 1: hidden information and it's super set on this apocalyptic you know,
Speaker 1: rebuilding the Temple and the things of the like type stuff.
Speaker 1: So well, yeah, yeah, he said.
Speaker 2: Basically, God will deal with the Assyrian and everyone not
Speaker 2: willing to acknowledge God will flee the Holy Land. But Babylon,
Speaker 2: essentially Babylon the Great becoming as they believe to be,
Speaker 2: this this Coalition of Nations or this one world government, right,
Speaker 2: and and that is put together by the Assyrian and
Speaker 2: Uh and the Two Horned Beast.
Speaker 1: So Babylon will.
Speaker 2: Persecute God's people, but God will provide a refuge for them.
Speaker 2: Eventually Babylon will fall. God will cast the Two Horned
Speaker 2: Beast into the Lake of Fire, and then much later
Speaker 2: after the millennium the devil also apparently, So yeah, the
Speaker 2: Kingdom of God will never be destroyed allegedly after the
Speaker 2: after the millennium. But this is very interesting as far
Speaker 2: as this, this sort of you know, this in times
Speaker 2: prophecy that's playing out in many ways, and it sort
Speaker 2: of as it becomes it justifies really what what occurred
Speaker 2: at the time, you know, in the minds of a
Speaker 2: lot of the Branch Davidians. Unfortunately, they believe they would
Speaker 2: be martyred by and especially even by fire, which was
Speaker 2: very much a part of his prophecy itself, which I
Speaker 2: found interesting as well, and that it would be in
Speaker 2: the form of two separate attacks, which also I thought
Speaker 2: was very strange.
Speaker 1: But Bible they I mean, they said that they never
Speaker 1: destroy us by water again, it will be by fire
Speaker 1: the next time. So it checks out, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I was listening to David Koresh's music earlier. I
Speaker 2: was like, what it was so strange, man, but you
Speaker 2: know it would cover.
Speaker 7: Well, no.
Speaker 2: One of them was was basically the Book of Daniel,
Speaker 2: which I found interesting, and it was you know, obviously
Speaker 2: the lyrics weren't.
Speaker 1: Well good, no, well, no, it was definitely psalms you
Speaker 1: could get away with that. Some so some psalms you
Speaker 1: can make sound good. But I think, you know, I
Speaker 1: think it's some random mother book. It's just it's gonna
Speaker 1: come out. It sounded too good. But I said, we're
Speaker 1: on the the woo woo side of things. What what more,
Speaker 1: particularly in the in this realm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so essentially, again, Mount Carmel was considered this man,
Speaker 2: this is very strange. Mount Carmel's considered both a training
Speaker 2: ground and haven, a place that prepared people to be
Speaker 2: able to go to Israel. CRUSH's continued teaching of a
Speaker 2: baptism of fire, his apocalyptic theology of martyrdom, and this
Speaker 2: basically how Mount Carmel was sacred, and uh, this all
Speaker 2: obviously played a role in the final events due to
Speaker 2: of course this this clear you know, reference to a
Speaker 2: baptism by fire, you know, and and uh anyway, so
Speaker 2: another thing that I thought was very interesting was again
Speaker 2: you had strange controversies right regarding their unorthodox lifestyle. But
Speaker 2: I felt like this is worth covering for a brief
Speaker 2: moment and then we'll we'll pivot.
Speaker 1: So check out this video.
Speaker 7: It is uh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is crazy.
Speaker 5: You know, the question is what am I doing? What
Speaker 5: am I doing with all these children? You know what's
Speaker 5: really going on here?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 5: You know, God is God in this nation is supposed
Speaker 5: to honor and serve God on our currency and these
Speaker 5: two that I have or for a reason.
Speaker 4: And unless we really have the ear and the eyes
Speaker 4: to open ourselves up to be able to read, really
Speaker 4: read the scriptures and understand the process and a lot
Speaker 4: of the Seventh Seal, the explanation would seem almost But anyway,
Speaker 4: hopefully God's granting us time to be able to open
Speaker 4: these things up more thoroughly. And we just thought we'd
Speaker 4: kind of break.
Speaker 5: The eyes and allow people to see just exactly, you
Speaker 5: know what kind of people we have here?
Speaker 1: You see that? What's that?
Speaker 7: Just that brief like.
Speaker 2: I wonder maybe he's tired, maybe he's in pain, he
Speaker 2: had been shot.
Speaker 1: This is during the siege. Was the kind of shifting
Speaker 1: of the body language.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I'm just like you know how people
Speaker 2: not out if they're drugged in any sort of way,
Speaker 2: Like it's just some kind of a strange tell if
Speaker 2: you like, if you just trail off.
Speaker 1: But it could be many, many different reasons.
Speaker 2: He's been shot tired. Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking he's just
Speaker 2: in pain at this moment, right like that? Would Did
Speaker 2: I start this from the beginning, by the way, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't know this, okay, And we just.
Speaker 5: Thought we'd kind of break the eyes and allow people
Speaker 5: to see just exactly you know what kind of people
Speaker 5: we have here. I'd just start off first off, my
Speaker 5: oldest son. His name is Cyrus. How old are you?
Speaker 7: His name is Cyrus?
Speaker 4: Great?
Speaker 5: Wave at him the camera right there, Hey, Starry Sean
Speaker 5: Sean daddy's face. He's my love baby, right.
Speaker 4: Uh. Bobby's our little clown here. Wave at the camera, Bobby,
Speaker 4: way at the camera. Wave there you go, my little
Speaker 4: holleyend Hollywood.
Speaker 5: Yeah, day. How old are you? Huh?
Speaker 4: Three?
Speaker 5: Oh? She just she just turned one too. Huh. Yeah,
Speaker 5: this is our little girl.
Speaker 4: Change.
Speaker 5: He's sweetie.
Speaker 4: Huh.
Speaker 5: He's so much He's an Australian baby. This one. We're
Speaker 5: fixing to having a one. Yeah, right, she should be
Speaker 5: about the Monk's.
Speaker 1: Weird to me? Did you see that.
Speaker 7: You're gonna have? Dude? This is weird right here?
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, about a month.
Speaker 4: Huh.
Speaker 5: Another one here pretty soon she should be having an
Speaker 5: old hearing about a month.
Speaker 1: Huh, that is a young girl.
Speaker 4: Then hello, Hello, Okay, there's one thing about our children.
Speaker 4: You will find out that there taught faith in God.
Speaker 4: They may not know every doctor, they may not know
Speaker 4: everything that we know, but they're taught that authority is
Speaker 4: based in maturity. They're taught to respect people. Her name
Speaker 4: is Serenity. Why she's Serene?
Speaker 5: Huh? I mean you look Maddy so that much? Well,
Speaker 5: it's a lot because this is Serenity, little sisters, the kids.
Speaker 1: This is strange too, weird.
Speaker 5: It's good love. Not he a kicker. This is Chamelle,
Speaker 5: she's our jumpers. This is a very athletic little girl.
Speaker 1: Strange.
Speaker 5: Hello, come on, come here. She's always fascinated with me.
Speaker 5: But anyway, this is my family, and uh no, one's
Speaker 5: gonna come in on top of my family and start
Speaker 5: push in my family.
Speaker 4: Rush.
Speaker 5: It's not gonna happen. Ain't gonna happen. You come point
Speaker 5: guns in the direction of my wives and my kids.
Speaker 5: Damn it. I'll meet you at the door any time.
Speaker 5: And I'm sorry some of you guys got shot, but
Speaker 5: uh hey, God would have to sort that out.
Speaker 2: Only that's pretty gangster to be honest, right you know
Speaker 2: that last Yeah, yeah, that that was a pretty gangster line.
Speaker 2: But but I will say that you have to admit,
Speaker 2: like that is a strange video like that.
Speaker 7: I just sat there.
Speaker 4: I like it.
Speaker 2: Hey man, you know, I'm just saying.
Speaker 1: It's definitely just when you see how young some of
Speaker 1: those girls are.
Speaker 7: And that's what I mean. Yeah, yeah, And keep this
Speaker 7: in mind.
Speaker 1: Many fucking kids, you got, dude, exactly.
Speaker 2: And well he had seventeen different children by eight different women,
Speaker 2: right and uh, and that was by ninety three that
Speaker 2: he had fathered seventeen children, and his his goal was
Speaker 2: apparently twenty four. His goal was to father twenty four children.
Speaker 2: And so keep this in mind as well. This is
Speaker 2: something I found interesting. I was unaware of, but apparently
Speaker 2: he claimed this divine mandate obviously right to take these
Speaker 2: spiritual wives from among the young women and girls. And
Speaker 2: so in eighty nine he began to teach that all
Speaker 2: women in the community, apparently including those married to others,
Speaker 2: were his wives. All the men other than himself were
Speaker 2: to be celibate, and then he taught the branch Davidians
Speaker 2: that he was to father twenty four children. These children
Speaker 2: would be raised within the community and would eventually serve
Speaker 2: as the twenty four elders spoken of in the Book
Speaker 2: of Revelation who would rule during the millennium, which again,
Speaker 2: apparently among his spiritual wives was Michelle Jones's sister of Rachel,
Speaker 2: who was twelve at the time and obviously below the
Speaker 2: legal age of consent.
Speaker 7: So that's what what kind of raised a lot of
Speaker 7: people's people were very upset.
Speaker 2: Clearly, and then another girl who this you know, this
Speaker 2: I couldn't, I could not avoid in my research about
Speaker 2: Waco was that there had been legitimate allegations that were
Speaker 2: made by victims who had survived, right like surviving victims
Speaker 2: or victims who had fled before fled the group before
Speaker 2: the the you know siege ever took place, and made
Speaker 2: allegations about Koresh and the unorthodox lifestyle. You had family
Speaker 2: members who were extremely upset about, you know, their families
Speaker 2: being destabilized and destroyed by David. And so it wasn't Yeah,
Speaker 2: everyone locally the branch Davidians were fine. They weren't causing
Speaker 2: any real problems. But again you have to consider that
Speaker 2: fact that there there's obviously collateral damage here in terms
Speaker 2: of families involved, and and uh and in any of
Speaker 2: these unorthodox groups and organizations that exist like that is
Speaker 2: the case.
Speaker 1: So it's it's what you're saying here is it's kind
Speaker 1: of like Jonstound where they exactly where there it was,
Speaker 1: there was lots of family members issues, you're you know,
Speaker 1: pulling off, you know, kind of pull doing cult stuff,
Speaker 1: essentially doing the whole like you know, if you know
Speaker 1: these are you know what subversives or whatever or great
Speaker 1: people or you know, whatever the different cult or group is,
Speaker 1: there's always like these are the non touchables or whatever
Speaker 1: the term is, like don't talk to these people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they do kind of separate, sequester them from the group.
Speaker 1: And so that's okay, it sounds like what you're saying. Okay,
Speaker 1: So it does. Obviously there's gonna be lots of parallels
Speaker 1: about Jones Sound through this problem. But it's I'm talking
Speaker 1: about Jonestown was building.
Speaker 2: Covert operatives directly comparing the two, like no, seing the
Speaker 2: facts of what we have outlined in our massive Jonestown series,
Speaker 2: right and being of that very same mind, then going
Speaker 2: ahead and detailing the fact that this is a direct
Speaker 2: parallel and here are the reasons and blowing the whistle
Speaker 2: effectively when they're being targeted and their lives are in
Speaker 2: jeopardy and their families are under protective orders by certain
Speaker 2: Navy seals that aren't compromised by the apparent covert network
Speaker 2: that's playing out in a very criminal enterprise established way.
Speaker 2: It's very difficult to conceptualize for the average person who
Speaker 2: hasn't been introduced to many of these right investigative threads
Speaker 2: of interest that are far more credible than you would
Speaker 2: ever imagine, right, And that's what you good.
Speaker 1: People out there. We've already, especially in this channel and
Speaker 1: an Austin's channel as well, at least on this channel particularly,
Speaker 1: there's pretty much anything we've mentioned, there's probably already a
Speaker 1: playlist that you can go find and find like a
Speaker 1: series on it or something like we've done a Jonestound series.
Speaker 1: But I guess to refocus our digging into this, I
Speaker 1: think obviously, if you have something else you want to reattack,
Speaker 1: you can you can redirect us there. But I figured
Speaker 1: we wanted to talk kind of about I kind of
Speaker 1: you know, talked about the MK ultra with the wu
Speaker 1: Wu side of things. But now I think we're gonna
Speaker 1: get into like kind of direct you know, direct, straight
Speaker 1: up mk ultra type of overt implications.
Speaker 2: So yes, and and keep keep in mind the reason
Speaker 2: that I mentioned the terrible allegations from some of the
Speaker 2: surviving victims or members that had had left the group.
Speaker 2: One of the girls was Kirie Jewel, and she alleged
Speaker 2: that Koresh molested her sexually when she was only ten.
Speaker 2: And so you had you had, of course, you had
Speaker 2: members of the group who most of the women have
Speaker 2: been convinced or conditioned to believe that it was an honor,
Speaker 2: but to have a child with David, you know, And
Speaker 2: and that's a that is real, that that's on. Never
Speaker 2: am I attempting to cast a negative light on the victims.
Speaker 2: It right in any way, But it's just the reality
Speaker 2: of this situation. It's very unorthodox and uncomfortable and unfortunately,
Speaker 2: when you're dealing with these cult of personalities like a
Speaker 2: David Koresh, it's a reality that you know, we're facing here.
Speaker 2: And I remember when I first approached this story, you know,
Speaker 2: I wanted to I wanted to run from that thread,
Speaker 2: you know, I just like it scared me, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like, honestly, it was something that I
Speaker 2: didn't find anything that seemed credible enough to pursue at
Speaker 2: the time, but still I had like stumbled upon something
Speaker 2: where I was like, WHOA in passing, what was that?
Speaker 7: And it always gave me pause.
Speaker 2: And so then, of course, in hindsight, knowing what I
Speaker 2: do now, obviously, as I've mentioned before, I would have
Speaker 2: entirely approached Waco in a different way, still in evitably
Speaker 2: resulting in a very similar conclusion obviously in my mind
Speaker 2: morally and philosophically. But anyway, so I felt like that
Speaker 2: was was something that needed to be said, and uh
Speaker 2: and beyond that that, that way we kind of like
Speaker 2: at least balance out what we're what we're presenting here
Speaker 2: as far as the alternative theory. But here's something that
Speaker 2: I think would be a fun way to kind of
Speaker 2: begin this, because this was something I discovered recently going
Speaker 2: back through the Alex Constantine archives.
Speaker 7: He has.
Speaker 2: A whole thread on the Oklahoma City bombing and a
Speaker 2: lot of different things which are are worthwhile in uh
Speaker 2: in going through and one is Gladio psyops and false
Speaker 2: Flags and a flashback where it presents what is described
Speaker 2: as Gladio opportunity means and motive an alternative version of Waco.
Speaker 2: And I discovered this very you know, in the past
Speaker 2: couple of weeks, like honestly probably a month ago, and uh,
Speaker 2: and I read through it. It was actually right for
Speaker 2: our Waco episode, is when I found it, and I
Speaker 2: had started freaking out, and uh. And so basically this
Speaker 2: would be a great way to at least introduce this,
Speaker 2: this alternative theory. So the Waco drama was piloted by
Speaker 2: the ninety two standoff at Ruby Bridge obviously, which you
Speaker 2: know as has served basically served as a prequel of
Speaker 2: sorts to the Oklahoma City bombing in many ways.
Speaker 7: And that is how it's described by you know, this this.
Speaker 2: Very interesting Constantine archived piece, which again serves as a
Speaker 2: perfect introduction to this alternative theory. And so it says,
Speaker 2: in fact, we have since been fed a steady stream
Speaker 2: of lies about how Timothy McVeigh, another intel legend's asset, Patsy,
Speaker 2: who was so disturbed about the attacks on Ruby Ridge
Speaker 2: and Waco that he had to go and bomb a
Speaker 2: federal building just to well, we simply cannot comprehend the
Speaker 2: evil souls of terrorists and their innocuous disguises leave us clueless.
Speaker 2: And in Oklahoma it was the boy next door, and
Speaker 2: in Waco it was the seductive preacher man. And so
Speaker 2: it's very interesting how this is presented. But basically the
Speaker 2: way it goes, it's Bill and Hillary Clinton. Right, as
Speaker 2: former Clinton advisor Dick Morris put it, Bill Clinton personally
Speaker 2: orchestrated the ninety three Waco, Texas tragedy. Nevertheless, Janet Reno
Speaker 2: was apparently set up as the bad guy, her role
Speaker 2: allegedly posing a threat to her reappointment. And so, according
Speaker 2: to Dick Morris, Janet Reno made this cryptic remark right,
Speaker 2: And this remark says it was regarding the way coincident
Speaker 2: in connection with her reappointment for a second four year term,
Speaker 2: as she said, if you don't appoint me, I'm going
Speaker 2: to tell the truth about Waco. And so that, of course,
Speaker 2: you know, made people definitely pause because what did she
Speaker 2: mean by the truth about Waco? Obviously, and I found
Speaker 2: it interesting the way he described it. He said, the
Speaker 2: general public was already as dazed as deer in the
Speaker 2: media headlights. What could she tell us that would have
Speaker 2: broken the spell? So interestingly, as we mentioned before that
Speaker 2: is where the three of the Bill Clinton's bodyguards during
Speaker 2: the ninety two election campaign were engaged in the Waco
Speaker 2: operation as BATF officers and were three of the four
Speaker 2: who were actually killed in the initial raid, right, And
Speaker 2: so the BATF investigative report, made public as an affidavit
Speaker 2: for the search warrant, was a.
Speaker 7: Key part of the official story about Waco.
Speaker 2: And so obviously this is where you know, you kind
Speaker 2: of have like this Janet Krino presenting the cult of
Speaker 2: personality in terms of Jonestown, where she provided the mass
Speaker 2: suicide narrative to the public as well, which is something
Speaker 2: I also think is very important to recognize. But by
Speaker 2: the way, I discovered that Timothy McVeigh I didn't realize this,
Speaker 2: but in order to fulfill his military obligation, McVay signed
Speaker 2: on obviously with the Army National Guard in Buffalo, he
Speaker 2: lands this job as a security guard with Burns International Security.
Speaker 2: McVeigh was assigned to the night shift guarding the grounds
Speaker 2: of Cowspin Research, Right. Yeah, man a defense contractor that
Speaker 2: conducts classified research in advanced aerospace, rock treat and electronic warfare.
Speaker 2: And now that drew my attention instantly obviously and apparently
Speaker 2: naval research lab attempts to meld neurons and chips. This
Speaker 2: is a study that was presented that says, as studies
Speaker 2: may produce army of zombies. And this plays into how
Speaker 2: all the green berets potentially went through this sort of
Speaker 2: strange psychological uh you know, conditioning program, and so it
Speaker 2: says future battles could be waged. This is such a
Speaker 2: crazy implication, and this is in a mainstream military you know,
Speaker 2: publication and says that naval research lab attempts were were
Speaker 2: involved here, and so it's described as future battles could
Speaker 2: be waged with genetically engineered organisms such as rodents whose
Speaker 2: minds are controlled by computer chips engineered with living brain cells.
Speaker 2: The research called hippocampal neuron patterning grows live neurons on
Speaker 2: computer chips. This technology that alters neurons could potentially be
Speaker 2: used on people to create zombie armies. A senior fellow
Speaker 2: at the Brookings Institution said, so, of course, the you know,
Speaker 2: the uh, the think tanks, which, by the way, I
Speaker 2: believe it was the Council on Foreign Relations seem to
Speaker 2: have been blamed in having some sort of role in
Speaker 2: regard to a lot.
Speaker 1: Of this, But so it's did crush of military service.
Speaker 1: I don't recall that coming up or being no, no,
Speaker 1: he never had military service. Now okay, because I mean
Speaker 1: you have McVeigh. Obviously he went Special Forces, you got,
Speaker 1: we got Westbrook, we got I mean, we could go
Speaker 1: on for a while with all the different weird Oh absolutely,
Speaker 1: hey what uh what the really rich guy was? He
Speaker 1: was he Green Beret? Well, I can't think of it.
Speaker 2: He was former Green Bray and that was that's that
Speaker 2: was why Colonel Bogritz was brought up there for the
Speaker 2: negotiations because he was a former Green Break commander and
Speaker 2: so uh yeah, that that's very interesting. And again he's
Speaker 2: the guy who has the crazy jonestown claims and as
Speaker 2: as far as the Green Breys being ordered to shoot
Speaker 2: on site all all the remaining victims and survivors and
Speaker 2: claiming that it was just a clean up crew for
Speaker 2: MK Ultra and that they were operating a covert Clindestine
Speaker 2: Mkultra black site, and guy, I.
Speaker 1: Wonder if any of Koresh's upper coadre were Green Beret.
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe maybe I was, like because I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about that I'm like that would make sense, because
Speaker 1: that was what makes sense. That was the deal with
Speaker 1: Jonestown is they had the Green Berets that were there,
Speaker 1: who were the guys running the security and like kind
Speaker 1: of seemingly running their own little child slaves, you know,
Speaker 1: type of whatever the heck they had to go in.
Speaker 2: There, so right, Yeah, and we know for a fact
Speaker 2: obviously that you know, Delta Force commandos were were on
Speaker 2: site during the final siege, right. And that was another thing,
Speaker 2: by the way, I heard that Wesley Clark potentially played
Speaker 2: some sort of role originally kind of like you know,
Speaker 2: he he was tied potentially to Waco as far as
Speaker 2: being involved because of these tanks coming from Fort Hood
Speaker 2: and and all these interesting like Colonel Gerald Boykend's being involved, right,
Speaker 2: and Peter Schumacher who was also a general who was
Speaker 2: the head of Special Forces I think, uh, that's at
Speaker 2: Fort Bragg at the time, and so they were all
Speaker 2: directly involved. They were there on site on the final
Speaker 2: day of the siege, right, And that that alone is
Speaker 2: fascinating stuff, you know, especially including the fact that you
Speaker 2: have you you obviously have an international intelligence footprint there
Speaker 2: as well, where it seems to be an intelligence sharing operation.
Speaker 7: Where they have like, yeah, they're they're.
Speaker 2: In Masade operatives, and and you have Russian intelligence who
Speaker 2: are there and they're all just taking notes in some
Speaker 2: sort of way or providing their expertise and and uh
Speaker 2: and and and advice and so this is interesting because
Speaker 2: uh that it goes to show obviously the use of
Speaker 2: military at Waco. If no one is aware of the
Speaker 2: fact of Danforth report in context. Right, there's an abstract
Speaker 2: that describes that in nineteen ninety nine, former Senator John
Speaker 2: Danforth is appointed by Attorney General Janet Reno a special
Speaker 2: counsel to investigate alleged illegal or improper behavior by government
Speaker 2: agencies before enduring the Waco critical incident in ninety three.
Speaker 2: His final report to the Deputy Attorney General exculpated the
Speaker 2: Bureau of Alcoholic Tobacco On Firearms, the FBI, and the
Speaker 2: Armed Forces regarding possible violations of Posse commatatis law and
Speaker 2: related statutes. Now, after further examination of the Danforth report,
Speaker 2: obviously in context, it's basically damp Forth called for government
Speaker 2: openness and candor regarding Waco, but delivered an unequivocal defensive
Speaker 2: government forces instead. Right, so that's something that's important to understand.
Speaker 2: And so I think that the place to start to
Speaker 2: iron out a little bit more of these mind control
Speaker 2: claims would be honestly Jolly West and his potential connections
Speaker 2: here because apparently, yeah, short so I was unaware of
Speaker 2: the fact that you have from the archives right the
Speaker 2: UCLA archives of Jolly West, there's a potential connection to
Speaker 2: Waco because there was a Waco file and shortly after
Speaker 2: he had entered University of Wisconsin. Now again, his connection
Speaker 2: this is all just alleged for Jolly So it's just
Speaker 2: it's difficult to tie him directly other than this file
Speaker 2: that no one.
Speaker 1: Is allowed to really apparently see.
Speaker 2: And we just know he had a file on the
Speaker 2: branch Davidians and it's always been alleged that one of
Speaker 2: the persons he treated was later David Koresh at some point.
Speaker 2: And so shortly after he had entered University of Wisconsin,
Speaker 2: he enlisted in the US Army in the Army Specialized
Speaker 2: Training Program. He studied the University of Iowa University of
Speaker 2: Minnesota School of Medicine, from which he graduated in forty eight.
Speaker 2: During his internship at the Payne Whitney Psychiatric Clinic, he
Speaker 2: became familiar with scientology, a cult he soon considered dangerous,
Speaker 2: right when he has those run ins when yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't know. That seems a little strange to me. But
Speaker 2: transferred to the US Air Force Medical Corps, and five
Speaker 2: years later he's appointed Chief of Psychiatry Service at the
Speaker 2: Lachlan Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas. So in
Speaker 2: this position he studies US pilots and veterans after they
Speaker 2: had experienced torture and brainwashing, obviously, and then it becomes
Speaker 2: chairman of the Department of Psychiatry at the University of
Speaker 2: California in La So Ucla, and obviously he becomes director
Speaker 2: of its Neuropsychiatric Institute. Now this is where he's alleged
Speaker 2: to have treated Charles Manson, Sirhan and later David Koresh.
Speaker 2: And so that to me, knowing already his his direct
Speaker 2: affiliation with Tim McVay, I'm not at all shocked that
Speaker 2: that that would be a possibility. And then you consider
Speaker 2: this from the archives Children of God cult, these files
Speaker 2: from from doctor Lewis Jolly and West's collection, says MK
Speaker 2: ultra researcher doctor Lewis Jolly and West spent years heading
Speaker 2: organizations related to cults like the Cult Awareness Network and
Speaker 2: Center for the Study of New Religions. After the Waco
Speaker 2: incident involving the Branch Davidians and David Koresh, the notorious
Speaker 2: child abuse cult that doctor Ruth Wangren Wanderin has suggested
Speaker 2: may have ties to the CIA, broke their years of
Speaker 2: media silence and reached out to, among others, UCLA, doctor
Speaker 2: West Right, so, uh, the professor at the Neuropsychiatric Institute.
Speaker 2: So in my mind, you're just witnessing a further connection
Speaker 2: that he potentially played here with in regard to UH.
Speaker 2: If there was actually Right a connection to Jolly West
Speaker 2: and the Branch Davidians, you know, and the allegations that
Speaker 2: I've always seen that he treated David Koresh, then we
Speaker 2: have a little bit more of a tangible thread that
Speaker 2: we can pull on there and hopefully I can discover
Speaker 2: something more more credible at a later at a later point.
Speaker 2: But yeah, So beyond that, man, I think the best
Speaker 2: place for us is is the Wilcher Report, because that's
Speaker 2: really the main crux of what I wanted to talk about.
Speaker 2: It's basically the core issue because to me, it draws
Speaker 2: in all the usual suspects. You have Paul Wilcher, right,
Speaker 2: who who will get into his He's this attorney who
Speaker 2: represents these two whistleblowers, and who are CIA covert operatives,
Speaker 2: and and this all ties in this individual named Gunther
Speaker 2: Ross Russbacher, uh the CIA operative which which discusses being
Speaker 2: George Bush's pilot in the infamous October Surprise scandal and
Speaker 2: and talks about Danny Castlero's octopus and BCCI being involved,
Speaker 2: so the Brank Bank of International Bank of Credit and
Speaker 2: Commerce obviously, So this all begins with Paul Wilcher writing
Speaker 2: these letters.
Speaker 7: Well, honestly, it's it's such a profound story.
Speaker 2: I'm discovering now that that this is like, brother, this
Speaker 2: is deep as hell, honestly when it gets down to it,
Speaker 2: and you could you could legitimately read multiple books on
Speaker 2: this this specific subject alone. But uh so, as I
Speaker 2: mentioned to you, and I honestly I mentioned this too
Speaker 2: to the guys on Indies the other day as well.
Speaker 2: So Paul Wilch sure right claims that in the Wilt
Speaker 2: report that he sends to Janet Reno. First of all,
Speaker 2: keep in mind, Paul Wilcher, lawyer to the whistleblowers Rodney
Speaker 2: Stitch and gunter Carl Russbacher. He Wilcher dies in these strange,
Speaker 2: disputed circumstances a month three weeks after writing this letter
Speaker 2: to then new US Attorney General Janet Reno, alleging that
Speaker 2: the CIA was killing people to cover up mind control
Speaker 2: experiments and that the Waco incident was one of these events,
Speaker 2: which he directly parallels to that of Jonestown, which of
Speaker 2: course collaborates and and and corroborates and at least provides
Speaker 2: some sort of credibility to that of the theory that
Speaker 2: bo Gritz was mentioning in regard to Jonestown. Right, they
Speaker 2: took all these leftover loose ends from the CIA Montreal
Speaker 2: experiments for mk ultra in in Anada and just took
Speaker 2: them down to Guyana and added them to the body count, right,
Speaker 2: And it was it was a very convenient way to
Speaker 2: tie off lou sins. And so it gets very interesting
Speaker 2: because he had apparently obviously if you're if you're the
Speaker 2: death of Paul Wilcher, Uh, we'll have to get into that, because.
Speaker 1: It's very strange.
Speaker 2: He obviously was moved, right, He had been dead for
Speaker 2: for weeks and was obviously killed elsewhere. Riga mortis had
Speaker 2: definitely set in.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: He was brought back to his apartment after and and
Speaker 2: the CIA operative gun through Rusbacher actually put it into
Speaker 2: descriptive terms. He says he he knows exactly how uh
Speaker 2: Paul Wilcher was murdered, and and he knows the make
Speaker 2: and model of the vehicle that he was put in
Speaker 2: the in the trunk of after he was drugged, after
Speaker 2: being beaten in his interrogation in regard it to to
Speaker 2: all these various profits that were being this uh laundered
Speaker 2: through the BCCI right at the time, right which can
Speaker 2: consider that with Iran Contra and and everything else playing out,
Speaker 2: Danny Castillaro has just been murdered, and Paul Wilcher saying
Speaker 2: I know more than he did, right, and he legitimately
Speaker 2: says this, He said, I know more than Danny Cassi
Speaker 2: Larrel knew about this octopus and and he said, my
Speaker 2: life is in danger. And the same about Russbaker. This
Speaker 2: gun through Russbaker, he's a CIA black you know, clandestine
Speaker 2: operative working under cover and U and as he realizes
Speaker 2: that members of his covert operational group were being targeted
Speaker 2: for assassination, right because things were being leaked about the
Speaker 2: October surprise that was happening, which he apparently piloted the
Speaker 2: flight and gives the list of individuals. Once a helicopter
Speaker 2: crash happens.
Speaker 8: And he goes, holy shit, I was supposed to be killed,
Speaker 8: and he he and he talks about how okay, well
Speaker 8: now I'm gonna blow the whistle, and he inevitably gets
Speaker 8: brought up on charges, right and as being a part
Speaker 8: of this this FBI sting.
Speaker 2: It's so crazy man, and uh and so again, this
Speaker 2: is something that like I've I h when you called
Speaker 2: me earlier, I was pretty much trying to I was
Speaker 2: alluding to the fact that I've discovered something that I
Speaker 2: think is far more credible, providing an alternative theory that
Speaker 2: I think is plausible as hell and would fill in
Speaker 2: a lot of this this that the holes in the
Speaker 2: narrative in my mind, But to lay out the bare
Speaker 2: bones of it, right, it's it's interesting. And I got
Speaker 2: a hold of actually the original expose and the the
Speaker 2: apparent apparent three part a Wilter report that was sent
Speaker 2: to Attorney General Janet Reno, which is very interesting.
Speaker 7: But by the way, I found this so crazy.
Speaker 2: Did you know that doctor Lewis Jolly and West was
Speaker 2: that he was actually in nineteen eighty nine that very
Speaker 2: cult Awareness Network that I think has direct connections tying
Speaker 2: into Waco and the LMI right where a allegedly based
Speaker 2: on the Wilsha report, the LMIs the institution where they
Speaker 2: were potentially prior programmed, as far as the the six
Speaker 2: individuals within Koresh's inner circle and things of that nature.
Speaker 2: So in eighty nine, the Cult Awareness Network awarded West
Speaker 2: its highest.
Speaker 7: Honor, the Leo J.
Speaker 1: Ryan Award.
Speaker 2: For Extraordinary courage, tenacity, and perseverance in the battle against
Speaker 2: tyranny over the mind of man.
Speaker 1: The Leo Ryan.
Speaker 2: Wow, what a fucking slaug about as salt in the wound? Right,
Speaker 2: I think a salted They fucking hated him, Like that's
Speaker 2: the most obvious thing in my mind, I mean, honestly.
Speaker 2: But when you talk about wake weirdness, Walter Bauert from
Speaker 2: that very operation Mind Control that Tim Tuttle had sent over, right.
Speaker 7: There's a chapter. It's chapter thirty three.
Speaker 2: By the way, I find that very interesting, But who knows,
Speaker 2: could just be chapter thirty three. So it says the
Speaker 2: fire at Waco from Operation Mind Controls Research Edition. So
Speaker 2: this is crazy. Perhaps not, since the Reichstag Fire and
Speaker 2: Nazi Germany have flames leaped so visibly into the pages
Speaker 2: of history. The flames in both Waco and the Reichstag
Speaker 2: fires were fueled by mind control. At least that's the
Speaker 2: impression you get when you read Attorney Paul D. Wilcher's
Speaker 2: letter to Attorney General Janet Reno, dated May twenty one,
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three. The letter begins with no salutation the
Speaker 2: phone numbers of Miss Reno, Justice Department Communications Director Carl
Speaker 2: stem Appointments Secretary Melissa Muller, Assistant Attorney General Richard Scruggs,
Speaker 2: and James cremarcik Special Ops CIA. With a typical loyally
Speaker 2: lack of style. The letter begins vital new information concerning
Speaker 2: the conflagration at David Koresh's Branch Davidian Compound quote Ranch
Speaker 2: Apocalypse outside Waco, Texas on Monday, April nineteenth, nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 2: which is now being kept from you and covered up.
Speaker 1: I e.
Speaker 2: That what happened was not a mass suicide, but rather
Speaker 2: a mass murder, the meaning and significance of this new information,
Speaker 2: particularly with respect to the Justice Department's ongoing Waco investigation
Speaker 2: and future indictments and prosecutions, i e. You are headed
Speaker 2: totally in the wrong direction because Bush administration holdovers in
Speaker 2: the Justice Department, along with others tied to the CIA,
Speaker 2: are preventing you from ever learning the truth about what
Speaker 2: actually happened in Waco. The extreme sensitivity of this information
Speaker 2: and my specific proposal as to how you should handle it,
Speaker 2: The lives of key participants, other witnesses, and even myself
Speaker 2: are now in grave danger as a result of my
Speaker 2: passing this information onto you. If you let this information
Speaker 2: fall into the hands of the wrong persons, some or
Speaker 2: all of those who know the truth about Waco and
Speaker 2: are now prepared to come forward and testify could well
Speaker 2: be silenced ie murdered in the very near future. In
Speaker 2: the extreme importance of this information to the overall quality
Speaker 2: of justice under the Clinton administration, to your own place
Speaker 2: in history as Attorney General, and to President Clinton's very
Speaker 2: life and personal safety, this information, if handled in the
Speaker 2: manner I've spelled out in detail below, presents you and
Speaker 2: President Clinton with a once in a lifetime opportunity to expose, confront,
Speaker 2: and hopefully root out much of the system wide corruption
Speaker 2: which has been at the core of the federal government
Speaker 2: for at least the past thirty years. Now, he says,
Speaker 2: the purpose of this letter is for me to deliver
Speaker 2: to you extremely sensitive information about the deaths of the
Speaker 2: eighty six men and women and children who perished the
Speaker 2: Branch Davidian compound on Monday, April nineteenth, nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 2: and the truth about how it all happened. But even
Speaker 2: more important, my purpose here is to demonstrate how the
Speaker 2: Waco tragedy fits into a much bigger and far uglier picture,
Speaker 2: and to present my specific, detailed plan as to how
Speaker 2: you should attack the overall problem at its root causes. Now,
Speaker 2: it's interesting because the subject of mind control is introduced
Speaker 2: on page four, when Wiltshire writes.
Speaker 7: David Koresh had.
Speaker 2: An extensive CIA background. He was known in CIA circles
Speaker 2: as a sleeper, someone who had been subject to extensive
Speaker 2: CIA mind control training and programming. Wilter said that it
Speaker 2: was not a coincidence that all these events were occurring
Speaker 2: in or near Waco, Texas, since Waco is a major
Speaker 2: center for such CIA mind control experimentation and programming, with
Speaker 2: much of this activity occurring at the CIA's Leadership Management
Speaker 2: Institute in Waco, the LMI. Wilter pointed out that similar
Speaker 2: CIA sponsored cults are located across the country, including such
Speaker 2: places as Salt Lake City, Utah, Provo, Utah Provo, Utah, Logan, Utah, Boise, Idaho,
Speaker 2: and San Francisco, California. And that which, by the way,
Speaker 2: is very overwhelmingly represented by modern day process groups right
Speaker 2: the best Friends, all the strange weird Mormon connections to
Speaker 2: Utah Right, which which obviously at one point played into
Speaker 2: even Watergate, which I felt was hilarious.
Speaker 7: But yeah, so it becomes.
Speaker 2: Very interesting because obviously it begins to describe that one
Speaker 2: or all of these other cults can likewise explode onto
Speaker 2: the front pages of the press at any time the
Speaker 2: ciadeems appropriate in order to accomplish its predetermined hidden right
Speaker 2: wing political agenda. Now this is, according to Wilcher, obviously
Speaker 2: so Wilcher indicated to Reno that he knew who had
Speaker 2: committed the murders, who had ordered them, and who had
Speaker 2: been part of the chain of command. He then lapsed
Speaker 2: into more of kind of reciting the disciplinary rules and
Speaker 2: codes of professional responsibility from the American Bar Foundation. But
Speaker 2: this is where it becomes very interesting. Thoroughly covering the
Speaker 2: details of the lies told by government employees at Waco,
Speaker 2: Wilcher wrapped up the motivational part of his argument and
Speaker 2: launched into a background brief on events leading to the
Speaker 2: February twenty eighth raid on the Davidian compound.
Speaker 7: To begin.
Speaker 2: Vernon Wayne Hall, also known as David Koresh, had connections
Speaker 2: to the CIA. Indeed, he and six of the men
Speaker 2: in his inner circle were known among CIA covert operatives
Speaker 2: as sleepers, persons whom the agency had performed mind control
Speaker 2: experiments on and who had been pre programmed to carry
Speaker 2: out specific pieces of CIA dirty business is the way
Speaker 2: he puts it in quotes, at some point in the
Speaker 2: future once a specific queue or signal was given to
Speaker 2: them by their contact persons or handlers within the agency. Third,
Speaker 2: David Koresh was very much like Reverend Jim Jones in
Speaker 2: that he too was a quote gangster who used a
Speaker 2: Bible instead of a gun. In a note, Wilcha remarked,
Speaker 2: Jonestown was not a mass suicide any more than Waco
Speaker 2: was instead Jonestown. Like Waco, was a mass murder in
Speaker 2: order to guarantee that there would be no survivors to
Speaker 2: tell about the CIA's extensive mind control experiments which had
Speaker 2: been performed on those mostly black victims in Guyana. Fourth,
Speaker 2: David Koresh was also very much like Charles Manson in
Speaker 2: that he, Jones and Manson all demanded and received total
Speaker 2: domination over and total submission from all of the men, women,
Speaker 2: and children in his group, And like the Reverend Jim
Speaker 2: Jones and Charles Manson, and David Koresh likewise had received
Speaker 2: much of his mind control training at the hands of
Speaker 2: the CIA and was a product of their system. In
Speaker 2: other words, David Koresh may have been what most people
Speaker 2: would consider a thoroughly and mentally disturbed megalomaniac, but he
Speaker 2: was the CIA's megalomaniac, or at least someone they were
Speaker 2: all too happy to use for their devious right wing
Speaker 2: purposes if and when the opportunity ever presented itself. Indeed,
Speaker 2: David Koresh and these six other men in his inner
Speaker 2: circle had apparently been pre programmed by the CIA to
Speaker 2: become on cue Manchurian candidate assassins apparently who would effectively
Speaker 2: essentially develop a weapon of some kind that he viewed
Speaker 2: would would this. This is what he also explained to
Speaker 2: because if you go through a lot of this, it's
Speaker 2: very strange the CIA had. Obviously, you know, one of
Speaker 2: the most important features of the mind control programming is
Speaker 2: the fact that you have critical segments of the subject's memory,
Speaker 2: including most or all of the programming experience itself. It
Speaker 2: basically self destructs, right, It's a it's a racete from
Speaker 2: the subject's mind and at a basically it's a memory
Speaker 2: of alteration done at a subconscious, unconscious level, right, And
Speaker 2: that's something that I think is difficult for people to understand.
Speaker 2: But this is you know, implanted false memories things of
Speaker 2: that nature. You know are are obviously playing out as well.
Speaker 2: And you know you have obviously you you you also
Speaker 2: have these these handlers utilizing the subconscious mind in which
Speaker 2: you have let's say, you just have these trigger mechanisms
Speaker 2: that I think it's important to understand, right, is a
Speaker 2: is a huge part of how this this actually fundamentally
Speaker 2: operates in the mind of the victim. But but yeah,
Speaker 2: this this is where we get into kind of.
Speaker 4: You.
Speaker 7: If you listen to the wife of the UH, the
Speaker 7: CIA Office of.
Speaker 2: Naval Intelligence operative gone through Rossbacher right, his wife, Raylan
Speaker 2: Alan Russbacher, right. She she described a lot of this
Speaker 2: personally because she experienced UH basically his targeting essentially after
Speaker 2: he became willing to blow the whistle. And this is
Speaker 2: the individual who, again, as I said, CIA covert Operative
Speaker 2: Office of Naval Intelligence, he was the one who is
Speaker 2: described as being directly involved in the flight to Paris
Speaker 2: with the President Bush Senior, right, George Bush Senior. And
Speaker 2: this is very interesting because obviously he explains specifically who
Speaker 2: was on the flight right and the chain of command
Speaker 2: as well. But the October surprise itself, Wilter cited his client.
Speaker 2: Paul Wilcher cited his client, Gunther Carl Russbacher, the CIA
Speaker 2: covert Operative Office of Naval Intelligence. He so his client
Speaker 2: describes a lifelong covert operative for the CIA in the
Speaker 2: Office of Naval Intelligence. As far as Paul Wilcher described
Speaker 2: his client as the pilot of the flight that flew
Speaker 2: George Bush and others to Paris for a meeting with
Speaker 2: Iran's leaders during the nineteen eight the election campaign so
Speaker 2: Russbacher claimed to have flown Bush to France in a
Speaker 2: BAC one to eleven owned by the Saudi Royal family.
Speaker 2: By Russbacher's recollection, the aircraft left from Andrews Air Force
Speaker 2: Base near seven am Eastern Standard time on October eighteenth.
Speaker 2: Rendezvoued over the Atlantic with a Grumm and Gulf Stream
Speaker 2: flown by Heinrich Rupp and landed at les Borges Airport.
Speaker 2: Russbaker returned Bush to the United States and at SR
Speaker 2: seventy one, which landed at McGuire Air Force Base at
Speaker 2: ten fifty am Eastern Standard time. After dropping Bush off
Speaker 2: at McGuire, Russboker continued a loan to Andrews Air Force Base.
Speaker 2: So this is interesting as well because if you look
Speaker 2: at persons.
Speaker 7: Who Russbacher alleged to be on the flight to Paris.
Speaker 2: It included William Casey future CIA director at the time,
Speaker 2: Donald greg CIA official, Robert Gabac.
Speaker 1: Or Colby got fucking murdered or got like clearly got off.
Speaker 2: I think it was Casey, the one that was in
Speaker 2: the boat that yeah, that was suspiciously killed.
Speaker 1: There's William Casey, and there's William Colby, So it's always
Speaker 1: mixed the too.
Speaker 2: Well, and now I always forget as well because I
Speaker 2: conflate both of them together as well.
Speaker 7: But yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Casey, but he
Speaker 7: and who had that?
Speaker 1: Uh, who had the quote to John de camp I
Speaker 1: think what like a month or less prefered to the
Speaker 1: bombing about like how yeah, then the militia will be
Speaker 1: the next biggest thing. It was murdered. Okay, whatever we're
Speaker 1: wrong on all.
Speaker 2: Right, Well that means difference, yeah, but uh, but yeah,
Speaker 2: I did find it interesting that Robert Gates was among
Speaker 2: the group as well, because he's a future CIA director.
Speaker 2: You have Earl Bryan, CIA agent credited by Wilsher, was
Speaker 2: stealing the inslaw Promise software.
Speaker 1: By the way, he was on the he was on
Speaker 1: the flight.
Speaker 2: You have Yeah, I mean you have you have quite
Speaker 2: a few, around five Navy seals, around five secret service agents,
Speaker 2: an additional congressman who's unnamed. You have John Hines, Republican Senator,
Speaker 2: John Tower, Republican Senator, Robert Byrd, Democratic Senator. There's not
Speaker 2: a huge list, but let's see one, two, three, five. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's about twelve people, right, but still Andre Yeah, definitely
Speaker 2: an elite cadre of individuals who most of them would
Speaker 2: be future CIA directors, which is, you know, very important.
Speaker 2: I think to understand if this is a legitimate in
Speaker 2: my mind, everything checks out again. This is an individual
Speaker 2: who you have to consider what happened in terms of
Speaker 2: the cover up during I Ran Contra, the death of
Speaker 2: Danny Castilero. This, in my mind, would fall perfectly in
Speaker 2: line with the octopus. So basically Russbacher alleged to be
Speaker 2: involved in the ground level operation.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: Wilt alleges that Heines, this individual was murdered in order
Speaker 2: to keep him quiet. Right, so one of the people
Speaker 2: who was actually on the flight was murdered in order
Speaker 2: to keep him quiet, John Hines, the Republican Senator. So
Speaker 2: I haven't yet looked up his death or the suspicious causes,
Speaker 2: but Wilt alleges that the senator was murdered in order
Speaker 2: to keep him quiet about the October surprise. And Heines's widow,
Speaker 2: Teresa Hines, she inevitably married the skull and bonesman John Kerry,
Speaker 2: so I found very strange. But in ninety two, Gunter
Speaker 2: Rossbacher was sentenced to twenty one years in prison for
Speaker 2: financial crimes. Russ Baker's wife, Raillian alleges that he had
Speaker 2: been a key figure in the Arms for drug scandal
Speaker 2: under the name Emery J. Pitten Peddin and that this
Speaker 2: sounds a lot like Barry Seal and similar in a
Speaker 2: similar way, and that at the time of his arrest
Speaker 2: in eighty nine, he was living in a CIA safehouse
Speaker 2: and his office was at the Langley, Virginia, CIA headquarters.
Speaker 2: All of the evidence of Gunther's ties to the intelligence
Speaker 2: community we were effectively procured by the FBI after his apprehension,
Speaker 2: and in February of ninety three, Rallian would claim to
Speaker 2: have provided Congress with the cockpit video from the SR
Speaker 2: seventy one during the return flight. Where as far as
Speaker 2: the hostage crisis is concerned with George Bussior in the
Speaker 2: October Surprise.
Speaker 1: So she also said they took an SR seventy one back.
Speaker 1: Is that what they're saying?
Speaker 2: Apparently from one of the locations on the trip back,
Speaker 2: they'd switched to an SR seventy one.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I maybe I'm wrong, but I don't feel like
Speaker 1: that's the thing that carries a large about it people.
Speaker 2: I feel like, maybe I'm wrong, but there aren't a
Speaker 2: lot of people. It seems like the trip to France
Speaker 2: obviously seven or four thousand miles. I mean later models
Speaker 2: of this, the original BAC one eleven this lacks the
Speaker 2: range to fly across the Atlantic and so at least
Speaker 2: allegedly so that that did. That does bring in some
Speaker 2: interesting ideas about how this could have happened. But also
Speaker 2: considering I'm not sure how the flight actually you know, it.
Speaker 1: Was dual seats. There's two seats in it, so that's weird,
Speaker 1: like you would have to be like specific.
Speaker 2: Oh, but he said he the return flight was just
Speaker 2: he was bringing one passenger essentially what was happening, right,
Speaker 2: So yeah, effectively they had switched planes too. This SR
Speaker 2: seventy one from the original because let's see, General Maxwell
Speaker 2: Taylor provided the SR seventy one and Colonel de Demarentius,
Speaker 2: who photographed Bush entering the SR seventy one, just.
Speaker 1: Seems way too excessive just for personal used.
Speaker 2: Right, But the air traffic controller at Andrews Air Force
Speaker 2: Base apparently corroborated this. The crew of a tanker of
Speaker 2: a CAC one thirty five tanker refueled the SR seventy
Speaker 2: one in the air so this is all apparently legitimate,
Speaker 2: you know, as far as it's somehow, you know, been corroborated.
Speaker 7: It looks as if it has been.
Speaker 1: And then I just haven't never heard them being used
Speaker 1: for passenger purposes all that much.
Speaker 7: Not the SR seventy one, not like like I said.
Speaker 2: Like I said, he claims that russ Baker returned Bush
Speaker 2: to the United States in SR seventy one, which landed
Speaker 2: at McGuire Air Force Base at ten fifty am Easter
Speaker 2: Standard time. So that's the alleged claim. And let's see
Speaker 2: in February ninety three, his wife, Russ Baker's wife, the
Speaker 2: alleged pilot's wife.
Speaker 7: Rayleian ray Lean. Oh shit, it's probably ray Lean. That's hilarious.
Speaker 2: So she claims to have provided Congress with that cockpit
Speaker 2: video right which of the returning flight in the SR
Speaker 2: seventy one. So that is another aspect of the apparent corroboration.
Speaker 2: But she also claimed that the CIA had attempted to
Speaker 2: frame her and Smith for an assassination attempt on Bush.
Speaker 2: In October twenty ninth, apparently and over fifty CIA operatives,
Speaker 2: their wives and families were allegedly killed in an attempt
Speaker 2: by the Robert Gates faction of the CIA to cover
Speaker 2: its tracks before Clinton's team came into power. And this
Speaker 2: could be a window into power struggles and DC and
Speaker 2: the internal kind of criminal syndicate and how they really
Speaker 2: function in some sort of way, because it couldn't possibly
Speaker 2: be that they're all on, you know, on board with
Speaker 2: the same exact agenda. You would have to imagine warring
Speaker 2: factions playing out. It's typically the way organized crime function
Speaker 2: in the first place. And so yeah, and basically.
Speaker 7: It was alleged that.
Speaker 2: She had survived four assassination attempts between October thirtieth and
Speaker 2: December twenty fifth, and that the enemy camp is placed
Speaker 2: squarely within the Council of Foreign Relations. Then that was
Speaker 2: at the very least a claim that his wife had made.
Speaker 2: And if you consider how Paul Wilcher, who is the attorney,
Speaker 2: original attorney for Gunter Russbacher right, he he died in
Speaker 2: a very strange way when he tried to get the
Speaker 2: the right the three part report, the Wilch report to
Speaker 2: Janet Reno, and that death again is something that's worth understanding.
Speaker 7: But first of all, you have to realize what Gunther.
Speaker 2: Russbacher had told Paul Wilcher whenever he contacted him, which
Speaker 2: is exactly what it happened, is that he had been
Speaker 2: tipped off on Russbaker's existence as a covert operative, just
Speaker 2: based on his investigation practices in general and who he
Speaker 2: had come into contact with. He's given this tip, he
Speaker 2: follows up with Gunter Russbacher, and and basically after you know,
Speaker 2: a long time long conversations. Opening the conversations with Russbacher,
Speaker 2: he's told during the the Wacos well, first of all,
Speaker 2: he's told all about the October Surprise. So he had
Speaker 2: every single last aspect of the details playing into the
Speaker 2: October Surprise, the individual names involved, and that he then
Speaker 2: came back and debriefed right the task force, the October
Speaker 2: Surprise task Force, which, unfortunately, apparently, like most Senate and
Speaker 2: House task forces, the October Surprise was a complete whitewash,
Speaker 2: as all the rest were.
Speaker 7: And so this is where you have the wife of.
Speaker 2: This former Office of Naval Intelligence operative gun Through Russbacher,
Speaker 2: claiming that during the Waco Siege, Gunther started telling her
Speaker 2: and Paul Wilcher about the mind control experiments that were
Speaker 2: going on inside the compound at Waco. At first, Gunther
Speaker 2: compared the experiment with Jonestown, but then he said that
Speaker 2: this one was a different kind. I can still remember
Speaker 2: the night before the compound was burned. This is the
Speaker 2: wife of Russ Russbacher, he says.
Speaker 7: She says, ray Lean.
Speaker 2: I was in hiding on top of a mountain in
Speaker 2: a small town in Ohio. Another hit order had been
Speaker 2: put out on me and the FBI was looking for me.
Speaker 2: I had arranged to call Paul at exactly eight pm.
Speaker 2: Gunther was going to call Paul from prison, right because
Speaker 2: Paul er uh gun through Usbacher had already been brought
Speaker 2: up on federal charges because he became willing to blow
Speaker 2: the whistle.
Speaker 7: This is very interesting.
Speaker 2: It's it, by the way, that fits perfectly with what
Speaker 2: Racana Schutto claim happened to him. He was running black
Speaker 2: budget covert operations domestically with with the CIA, and that
Speaker 2: essentially he was hung out to dry because he had
Speaker 2: become willing to name co certain co conspirators and due
Speaker 2: to that fact, right, they essentially damaged his credibility and
Speaker 2: assassinated his character. And he wasn't all that of a
Speaker 2: bright and shining you know, ethical standard in the first place. Right,
Speaker 2: So it really wasn't all that difficult if you're running drugs,
Speaker 2: uh domestically with for the for the US intelligence apparatus.
Speaker 2: But but yeah, anyway, so Gunther and it's interesting because
Speaker 2: he starts gun thro Rust Baker starts explaining what was
Speaker 2: happening with these covert operations at Waco and uh and
Speaker 2: basically he he kind of outlines, you know, exactly what
Speaker 2: what was taking place and and essentially he says that yes,
Speaker 2: the Waco Sleepers had somehow been triggered and and this
Speaker 2: is where you kind of get into a little bit
Speaker 2: more of the details of what could have potentially been
Speaker 2: happening at at the Branch Davidian complex. So it looks
Speaker 2: as if and this is according to again this is
Speaker 2: ray Lean, right and uh, and she's explaining how the
Speaker 2: Davidian group was created to perform a terrorist act similar
Speaker 2: to the sarin gas that was released in the Japanese
Speaker 2: subway by the Amschinrikio Colt right. So again this is
Speaker 2: part of the Wilchi report. Randy Weavers listed in the
Speaker 2: Wilcher Report of the Ruby Ridge incident as being a
Speaker 2: control subject that ended up out of control, and Russbacher
Speaker 2: never never provided any further information on Randy Weaver being
Speaker 2: a potential you know, Manchurian or at the very least
Speaker 2: being involved with this very same operation. So Russbacher introduced
Speaker 2: Wilcher to members of his seal team. These men and
Speaker 2: others are the government employees who gave Paul Wilcher the
Speaker 2: information he put into the one hundred page letter he
Speaker 2: wrote to Attorney General Janet Reno. So in the letter,
Speaker 2: he explains that various government mind control experiments obviously, and
Speaker 2: he attempts to obviously walk us through a lot of
Speaker 2: the details of how this is even possible in the
Speaker 2: first place. And this is what he was trying to
Speaker 2: explain to Janet Reno, although he didn't realize Janet Reno
Speaker 2: wasn't really a good faith actor in the first place.
Speaker 2: She was she very much became compromised if she wasn't
Speaker 2: to begin with, but she tried, He tried to at
Speaker 2: the very least give her some.
Speaker 1: Sort of background on mind control.
Speaker 2: So it gets even crazier because, apparently, according to Raylen Russbacher,
Speaker 2: Wilcher was told that something had gone wrong at WACO
Speaker 2: the Sleepers were waking up from their programming. Not only
Speaker 2: were they waking up, one or more of them had
Speaker 2: been accidentally triggered. The Waco Sleepers were programmed to make
Speaker 2: and deliver a biological or chemical device that could kill
Speaker 2: everyone in a city the size of Oklahoma City or Houston.
Speaker 2: Information received by their handlers stated the program had been
Speaker 2: accidentally triggered and the seven Sleepers had started building the device.
Speaker 2: So this is but Russbacher actually gun Through Russbacher had
Speaker 2: actually told to Paul Wilcher, And so it looks like
Speaker 2: Paul Wilcher was not told about this mission right as
Speaker 2: far as the Waco Sleepers had been as far as
Speaker 2: he was not told about the mission the Waco Sleepers
Speaker 2: had been prepared to carry out. In terms of what
Speaker 2: was this device for, right, that's the main point and
Speaker 2: so meaning of course, the primary source of gun through Russbacher,
Speaker 2: by the way, is obviously he's the primary source in
Speaker 2: the Wilch report. And so this is when the outline
Speaker 2: from this chemical device of the Sleepers that they were
Speaker 2: constructing and alluded to and how it might have been
Speaker 2: used was at the very least it was somewhat alluded to,
Speaker 2: but not in real detail, so Wilcher was not told
Speaker 2: that the Sleepers had accidentally been triggered, but they were
Speaker 2: building a chemical device which they were planning on using
Speaker 2: on Oklahoma City. The Sleepers had been programmed many years before.
Speaker 2: In the ensuing time, it was discovered that the wind
Speaker 2: currents in Oklahoma City would have dispersed the chemicals so
Speaker 2: that it would have been rendered ineffective. In other words,
Speaker 2: it would not have killed the massive number of people
Speaker 2: that needed to be killed to send a message to
Speaker 2: the American people. The chemical device which the Seven Sleepers
Speaker 2: were in the process of constructing could have killed up
Speaker 2: to three hundred and fifty thousand people. That is the
Speaker 2: allegation which every agency or department was in control of
Speaker 2: the Sleepers, or whichever agency or department was in control
Speaker 2: of the Sleepers in this project made the determination that
Speaker 2: Houston would be a better target than Oklahoma City, so,
Speaker 2: in other words, more people would have been killed. And
Speaker 2: the Seven Sleepers had not yet been recalled apparently as
Speaker 2: far as their programming was concerned, and and so they
Speaker 2: apparently hadn't been recalled and reprogrammed with the new instructions
Speaker 2: such as dates and locations. So apparently that is how
Speaker 2: they actually can follow through with with a lot of
Speaker 2: this these potential kind of sleeper cells that that are
Speaker 2: conveniently stationed in controlled environments, because that's again what what
Speaker 2: you know, the theoretical outline here is that this could
Speaker 2: potentially be what is happening, right, is that you have
Speaker 2: sleeper cells that are stationed to condition groups of individual citizens,
Speaker 2: let's say, you know, in a controlled environment right where
Speaker 2: where you can kind of conduct this very sophisticated level
Speaker 2: of research. And you wonder why all of these interesting
Speaker 2: you know, how many right, the international footprint at Waco
Speaker 2: was very strange, to say the least. And so according
Speaker 2: to this Office of Naval Intelligence Cioperative Gun through Russbacher,
Speaker 2: there was another message being sent. Russbacher once stated that
Speaker 2: Randy Weaver was also a programmed sleeper and indicated that
Speaker 2: Vicky Weaver had somehow deactivated Brandy's programming. Russbacher seemed to
Speaker 2: imply that the attack on Ruby Ridge was intended to
Speaker 2: send a message not only to the Patriot community, but
Speaker 2: to all sleepers from the Special forces community. Some of
Speaker 2: these sleepers realized they had been programmed and were trying
Speaker 2: to find the sleeper program and deactivate it themselves. Russbacher
Speaker 2: said this was happening in some of the men who
Speaker 2: had been programmed during the Vietnam War as well. So
Speaker 2: he's claiming that during Phoenix that all of these sleepers
Speaker 2: began to wake up to their prior programming and reject it,
Speaker 2: and then, knowing in hindsight what had occurred, were effectively
Speaker 2: attempting to reprogram themselves in some very strange way. I'm
Speaker 2: telling you, man, this is all something that I've Again,
Speaker 2: I'm presenting this the best that I can because this
Speaker 2: is something that I've just recently discovered, and it's also
Speaker 2: very interesting trying to figure out what's most important to present.
Speaker 2: But it's like, with the amount of time we have left,
Speaker 2: it's it's basically impossible to do.
Speaker 6: So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think, I mean, obviously, if there's a
Speaker 1: I think we're kind of I think we've really kind
Speaker 1: of seems to me, at least obviously you have a
Speaker 1: better grip on this material. But it seems like we
Speaker 1: kind of hit the main beats in like kind of
Speaker 1: what we're getting at real quick before you do move
Speaker 1: on real quick. I do have a question from and
Speaker 1: it ties into kind of where we're at right now
Speaker 1: from one of my one of my listeners. It's actually
Speaker 1: from Tim Tuttle, and I just I guess he was
Speaker 1: obviously it seems like he knew ahead of time that
Speaker 1: you were going to touch on the David and his
Speaker 1: six followers being sleeper agents. But the key question he
Speaker 1: asked is how much weight does he put into it?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 1: Like, if you are to analyze this theory, this theory
Speaker 1: that's being put out by the Wheelchair Report, what what?
Speaker 1: How do you how do you judge this? I'm beginning
Speaker 1: to find Is there any way too, is there any
Speaker 1: reason to look at this with dubious eyes aside from
Speaker 1: the fact that it's crazy claims or not really well?
Speaker 2: I honestly I think that the b C C I,
Speaker 2: you know, connection that's being provided here. The even what
Speaker 2: I have just discovered about Arlest Perry's husband, Bruce Perry,
Speaker 2: being involved as the psychiatrist who who gave the the
Speaker 2: children their psychiatric uh you know, basically there was a
Speaker 2: psych psychiatric profile.
Speaker 1: And and.
Speaker 2: Let me pull up Bruce because this is he was
Speaker 2: in charge of treating the children at Waco. This is
Speaker 2: so crazy man, and Bruce Paddock to me is direct
Speaker 2: not Bruce Paddock, Jesus going to the Vegas shooting my bad, No,
Speaker 2: Bruce Perry. That that's Arles Perry who was ritually murdered
Speaker 2: on the you know, on the UC Berkeley campus. And
Speaker 2: it's a very crazy story. It's October nineteen seventy four,
Speaker 2: and Bruce Perry's involved. He's found by the authorities and
Speaker 2: covered in blood. They claim it's not his blood. I
Speaker 2: think Stephen Crawford's involved, the security guard on the campus
Speaker 2: that night. But inevitably it's tied directly back to the
Speaker 2: processed church of the final judgment and a ritualistic, occult
Speaker 2: murder that very much she had been Apparently she was
Speaker 2: from North Dakota. David Berkwoods, himself from Son of Sam Murders,
Speaker 2: even wrote about how Arles Perry's murder was ritualistically. Obviously
Speaker 2: it was a ritual practice and it was honestly just
Speaker 2: a blood ritual inside of a chapel as well, with
Speaker 2: every single aspect of the crime scene being staged, a
Speaker 2: candle inserted into a vagina like like her legs being
Speaker 2: put at a strange specific angle where her her jeans
Speaker 2: were draped over her by by the by the perpetrator
Speaker 2: in in that very same angle with an ice pick
Speaker 2: shoved into the back of her head. But she didn't
Speaker 2: show signs of sexual abuse. It was very other than
Speaker 2: obviously the candle and those the strange.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it again, the fact of the matter is that
Speaker 2: you have a direct tie in to Arles Perry's husband,
Speaker 2: Bruce Perry, happened to be being the psychiatrist involved in
Speaker 2: in uh in being in charge of treating the children
Speaker 2: at Waco. And so that alone made me think is
Speaker 2: is this is this potentially could we have some sort
Speaker 2: of wider network playing out here and some some gladiol
Speaker 2: style terms right where where this is more realistic than
Speaker 2: you would think and uh And I believe that at
Speaker 2: this point after reading into this, I think the ultimate
Speaker 2: thread is Paul Wilcher and the Wilter Report And I
Speaker 2: believe that Guntha Russ Baker was the pilot that day.
Speaker 2: I think that he can tie in the October surprise
Speaker 2: and Danny Casselarro's octopus to the BCCI scandal. That kind
Speaker 2: of proves out how Iran contra where laundering and money
Speaker 2: at the time and drugs and many other things, clandestine
Speaker 2: operations in general. And but you know it's it's more
Speaker 2: than that as well, right, because you have to consider the.
Speaker 7: Actual Wilt report itself.
Speaker 2: They talk about how essentially there's this crazy part about
Speaker 2: how basically how David Koresh could have, you know, potentially
Speaker 2: actually utilized mind control techniques. It says one reason why
Speaker 2: Koresh was so skilled in controlling his followers, right, and
Speaker 2: it goes into this is number nineteen in the ninety
Speaker 2: three reports sent to Janet Reno, the original version.
Speaker 7: It's a crazy.
Speaker 2: But this is what it looks like, right, and and
Speaker 2: it basically highlights one reason was right that he was
Speaker 2: so skilled in controlling his followers, and basically that was
Speaker 2: in subjugating the minds and wills of his followers. Was
Speaker 2: that he and these six men in his inner circle
Speaker 2: had been through such intensive and total mind control programming themselves.
Speaker 2: But once the CIA had trained these pre programmed row
Speaker 2: about assassins, it felt it could not just wind them
Speaker 2: up and let them go. It had to keep a
Speaker 2: careful watch over them and if push came to shove
Speaker 2: to take them out to kill them. If the CIA
Speaker 2: ever felt that Koresh and his six follow fellow sleepers
Speaker 2: could no longer be counted on to carry out their
Speaker 2: pre assigned mission at some date in the future or
Speaker 2: has ultimately occurred, if there was any danger that they
Speaker 2: might someday testify in a court of law or otherwise
Speaker 2: be able to expose the public as far as to
Speaker 2: the public to the real truth about the CI's mind
Speaker 2: control operations, I think that alone is at the very
Speaker 2: least worth worth identifying as a realistic possibility, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: But when you have when you legitimately have a part
Speaker 2: of the Welter repport being you know.
Speaker 7: That this was a lot of this had to do
Speaker 7: obviously with.
Speaker 2: You're you're considering DC the winds of power shifting. Obviously
Speaker 2: you have transitioning in the uh UH the as far
Speaker 2: as the executive administration and power at the time, and
Speaker 2: I think that always matters as far as the covert
Speaker 2: operations and and getting the green light, you know.
Speaker 7: So, yeah, you have layered operations to Waco.
Speaker 2: Obviously the ATF wanted to be involved so they could
Speaker 2: get some more funding.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent.
Speaker 7: You had so many different aspects of it playing out.
Speaker 2: But to to rule out the legitimacy and realistic, uh
Speaker 2: potential of a covert operation being conducted domestically for some
Speaker 2: sort of let's say sleep or sell but but uh
Speaker 2: test group, you know, under the perfect circumstances, you know,
Speaker 2: just like a jonestown where where not only you know,
Speaker 2: again you have Sarah McClendon, who's who. She's part of
Speaker 2: the White House Press office right at the time, and
Speaker 2: she's legitimately like she's worried about Paul Wilcher because he
Speaker 2: was actually had press credentials at that time, right, was legitimate,
Speaker 2: like he was a corroborated journalist before he was found
Speaker 2: dead in one of the craziest uh, you know, examples
Speaker 2: you could ever discover. So this is the very beginning
Speaker 2: why Waco, it says, and this is alone. We could
Speaker 2: probably end with this because you know, there's just so
Speaker 2: much it's just too much, you know what I.
Speaker 7: Mean, And yeah, yeah, and so.
Speaker 2: Check this out so hours before you know, you just
Speaker 2: have to consider the fact that this is this is
Speaker 2: basically the best way to kind of.
Speaker 7: In a in a coherent and and let's say just comprehensive.
Speaker 2: Chronological way, like set out a little bit of what
Speaker 2: the Wilcher report is without having to read through it all,
Speaker 2: it obviously says that that Paul Wilcher right and in
Speaker 2: a small group because there's there's a death that's obviously
Speaker 2: affiliated because of Paul Wilcher being found dead, and so
Speaker 2: Mary and kidding as a friend and expressed concern about
Speaker 2: Wilcher's sudden disappearance. Wilcher worked closely with Gun through Russbacher,
Speaker 2: obtaining hours tape conversation about covert CIA operations, including the
Speaker 2: October surprise in slaw BCCI and other covert activities. Russbacher
Speaker 2: sent copies of the fifty five tapes in addition to
Speaker 2: the hundreds of hours so in addition, shortly before his death,
Speaker 2: Wiltro had obtained the names of many US Congressmen who
Speaker 2: had been bribed by BCCI. Wiltro was a threat to
Speaker 2: Justice Department officials, federal judges, members of Congress, and other
Speaker 2: US officials. Marian Kendig, a friend of Wiltchire, went to
Speaker 2: his apartment a couple of days earlier and got no
Speaker 2: answer when she rang the doorbell. She rang an adjacent
Speaker 2: apartment seeking to have the person signal the front door
Speaker 2: to open. She wanted to leave a package on Wilcher's doorknob.
Speaker 2: So this is how his body is discovered basically. But
Speaker 2: Sarah mcclindon asked the Washington Police to go to Wilcher's
Speaker 2: apartments to check on his safety, stating that several friends
Speaker 2: had not seen Wiltchair for the past two weeks and
Speaker 2: that they feared foul play. The police refused to do so,
Speaker 2: and it was also described, as I had read earlier,
Speaker 2: as if they didn't want to get involved in any
Speaker 2: real way, which makes sense based on the military intelligence
Speaker 2: like infiltration of the local Metropolitan DC police department. But
Speaker 2: either way, so he's clearly he's discovered dead. And it's
Speaker 2: very very strange in the better way to expose the
Speaker 2: details of that, because you actually have Russbacher himself, the
Speaker 2: actual cia O NI operative. He explains exactly what happened
Speaker 2: to this individual. He provided all the information to Paul Wilcher,
Speaker 2: and this is what he has to say. Gone through,
Speaker 2: Russbacher releases information detailing the last hours of Paul Wilcher,
Speaker 2: how Paul Wilcher was murdered. Paul was picked up at
Speaker 2: his apartment, taken to Vienna, Virginia where he was questioned
Speaker 2: as to the Bush, Webster and Carter account with London
Speaker 2: s w BCCI. He was questioned for approximately two hours,
Speaker 2: at which time he was fed. At three forty pm
Speaker 2: on the eighteenth of June, he was administered point zero
Speaker 2: two five milligrams of Cure AIRR via DSMO as a stabilizer.
Speaker 2: It was applied to the coding of the pepsi bottle.
Speaker 2: At point of death, he was beaten to the face
Speaker 2: to make it look like a mugging. Now, this is
Speaker 2: coming from gun Tha Usbacher, the alleged OH and I
Speaker 2: CIA operative who was running covert operations drug smuggling for
Speaker 2: the Iran contra network, the pilot that ran the October Surprise,
Speaker 2: who effectively exposed the BCCI you know connection. This is
Speaker 2: all what he has to say, obviously in his attempt
Speaker 2: to expose this this wider network, but also in his
Speaker 2: attempt to corroborate the legitimacy and credibility of Paul Wiltra himself,
Speaker 2: who was the attorney who sought him out and attempted
Speaker 2: to expose, you know, the truth in regard to what
Speaker 2: at least potentially could be the truth in regard to
Speaker 2: a covert Clindestine operation being exposed.
Speaker 7: Right, And so this is.
Speaker 2: By the way, he claims that he was also poisoned
Speaker 2: right when he went to which I found interesting, off Foot.
Speaker 7: Air Force Base. Right.
Speaker 2: So he goes to Offod Air Force Base in Nebraska
Speaker 2: where they're running Project Monarch. Then he claims at least
Speaker 2: gone thro Russbacher. He had told Paul Wilcher that when
Speaker 2: he went there with these key CIA operatives and very
Speaker 2: high level officials within the intelligence apparatus, that he basically
Speaker 2: tells him that he was poisoned.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I believe it was Russbacher that was poisoned, or maybe
Speaker 2: it was Russbaker had brought Paul Wilcher to this event. Again,
Speaker 2: I've just recently been very much exposed to this light
Speaker 2: of interest. But from the story that I'm recalling from
Speaker 2: my recent memory, yeah, it was one of the two.
Speaker 2: But either way, one of the two were poisoned while
Speaker 2: they're a meeting with.
Speaker 7: The director of the CIA at of off Air Force Base.
Speaker 2: And I believe it actually was Paul Wilch now that
Speaker 2: I'm remembering, because I'm pretty sure the entire uh what
Speaker 2: it happened was that the head of the CIA had
Speaker 2: had had directly told the individual who present presented the
Speaker 2: drinks to the table of Gun to Russbacher and Paul
Speaker 2: Wilcher that he needed Paul Wilcher to have a long
Speaker 2: sleep and so effectively that meant you need to drug
Speaker 2: him so I can have a private conversation with Gun
Speaker 2: through Russbacher without this this attorney who's clearly attempting to
Speaker 2: pry into a lot of these these dealings. Now I'm
Speaker 2: trying to again, uh all all, uh all, fundamentally, uh
Speaker 2: you know, kind of affiliate myself with the far more
Speaker 2: of these details over time, but with the I.
Speaker 1: Really you got to get out here and oh yeah
Speaker 1: spot so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll summarize this, brother, I'm sorry, but basically the
Speaker 2: at the point of death, the point being gunn through
Speaker 2: uss Baker released the information dealing detailing the last hours
Speaker 2: of Paul Wiltshire. He says at the point of death,
Speaker 2: he was beaten it to the face to make it
Speaker 2: look like a mugging. He was held in the trunk
Speaker 2: of a white and gray Ford Victoria with Maryland plates.
Speaker 2: He was taken to his apartment. He was in a
Speaker 2: briga Mortis at the time already placed on the toilet.
Speaker 2: He had already emptied his bowls at death in another location,
Speaker 2: the ball was removed and disappeared. Autopsy errology will show
Speaker 2: this curere dmso in the cardiovascular sack. Uh paridinum. I
Speaker 2: believe peridinum.
Speaker 7: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure how to pronounce it, but that
Speaker 2: was what he was claiming would be discovered. And so
Speaker 2: there's a Chicago judge which apparently died in the very
Speaker 2: same way right that Wilcher did, Judge Parsons, which was
Speaker 2: apparently being primed and ready to accept a civil rico
Speaker 2: filing in regard to this very same matter, which was
Speaker 2: scheduled for filing on June I believe it was June thirtieth,
Speaker 2: ninety three, And then all of the documents disappeared after
Speaker 2: the fact. So several others, of course died, and and
Speaker 2: they were claiming up to fifty some odd cut you know,
Speaker 2: covert operatives were effectively targeted and assassinated throughout the course
Speaker 2: of this uh you know, attempted exposure and and so
Speaker 2: the primary cause of death, according to gun through Russbacher
Speaker 2: Bush Russboker video of the return flight from Paris and
Speaker 2: the SR seventy one.
Speaker 1: They say that was a huge factor.
Speaker 2: Documents of BCCI and UH and and these these financial right, obviously,
Speaker 2: these these proof positive that there's clearly a covert money
Speaker 2: laundering operation facilitating these black budget you know, and again
Speaker 2: the overall intelligence apparatus that's being.
Speaker 7: Obviously gladiol in my mind. But anyway, audio tapes.
Speaker 2: Of interviews by CIA covert operatives over sixty five tapes,
Speaker 2: ninety two hours of which we were all effectively destroyed
Speaker 2: or disappeared, and WACO on the CIA Delta Force, all
Speaker 2: all involved obviously.
Speaker 1: So yeah, all right, well with that, Austin, let them
Speaker 1: know where they can find you more, buddy, But yeah,
Speaker 1: I know there's plenty, but i'd really good out of here.
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry to trying to keep you. But we
Speaker 1: could easily make this at least a two part episode.
Speaker 1: So but to keep it, Kurt, and to keep it
Speaker 1: I think we we. I think we covered relevant information,
Speaker 1: We let people interested. I'm sure we'll spurg on this
Speaker 1: and other times in one of our shows with that,
Speaker 1: Austin at some point, yeah, oh for sure. But with
Speaker 1: that Austin. Let them know where they can find you.
Speaker 1: We're gonna get out of here. I gotta get going,
Speaker 1: so it sounds good, buddy, Sorry to keep you mad.
Speaker 1: You already know.
Speaker 2: I tried to do my best as far as again
Speaker 2: this is. I couldn't figure out the best way to
Speaker 2: chronologically organize a lot of this because it's so much
Speaker 2: that I'm kind of spiraling on in a very brief
Speaker 2: amount of time. But still it's something worthwhile in examining
Speaker 2: and re examining and reflecting upon because I do think
Speaker 2: that this alternative theory provides a far more plausibility than
Speaker 2: I originally would have ever considered, you know. And and
Speaker 2: so yeah, you guys already know you can. You can
Speaker 2: support me if if you would like to at my
Speaker 2: patreon and that's patreon dot com, slash the Underclass Podcast
Speaker 2: then basically best place to follow me at the Underclass
Speaker 2: Podcast on Instagram or at theater thug Awp on Twitter,
Speaker 2: and yeah, the Underclass Podcast, man, you know this, Love
Speaker 2: you brother, I.
Speaker 1: Love you too.
Speaker 4: Man.
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