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<v Speaker 1>Hello everyone, it's your host, Amanda Eka, and I have

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<v Speaker 1>some amazing news. Starting this fall, The pote Speaks is

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<v Speaker 1>coming to your TV screens. Yes, that's right. After eight

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<v Speaker 1>amazing seasons as a podcast, The poet Speaks with Amanda

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<v Speaker 1>Eka is now a TV show erin on the Archaeology

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<v Speaker 1>Channel's new streaming service, Heritage. Everyone, get ready for a

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<v Speaker 1>visual feast, spoken word performances, and deep dives into the

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<v Speaker 1>minds of poets from all over the world. Something extraordinary

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<v Speaker 1>is coming and you won't want to miss a single moment.

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<v Speaker 2>Stay tuned.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello everyone, and welcome back to The poet Speaks Podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>Now our next guest.

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<v Speaker 1>Body of work deals with place, ecology, memory, and cultural reckoning.

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<v Speaker 1>She's published five celebrated poetry collections. Her bookwork Work in Days,

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<v Speaker 1>was one of the New York Times Best Poetry Books

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<v Speaker 1>of twenty sixteen, twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>She will serve as a poet Lord about Serena, California.

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<v Speaker 3>Everyone, Welcome to the pols Speaks Podcast. Test Taylor, Test,

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<v Speaker 3>how are you?

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<v Speaker 2>I am so happy to be here. Thank you, Amanda,

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely so.

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<v Speaker 3>Tell us a bit. Where are you at currently right now?

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<v Speaker 3>In the world.

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<v Speaker 1>We love to find out where our guests where we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking to them from, how far away we are in

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<v Speaker 1>a digital space.

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<v Speaker 3>So where are you at currently in the world?

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<v Speaker 2>Right now, I am sitting in my living room in

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<v Speaker 2>a little bungalow in Elsaito, California. That's the town I

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<v Speaker 2>grew up in. I left. I lived in Boston and Brooklyn.

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<v Speaker 2>I did the writer thing on the East Coast for

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<v Speaker 2>a while, and then I ended up back in the

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<v Speaker 2>little town I grew up in. It is a suburb

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<v Speaker 2>that is between Richmond, California and Berkeley, California, and in

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<v Speaker 2>some ways you could just think it was a boring

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<v Speaker 2>little suburb, but I actually think there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>fascinating stuff about it. It's the endpoint on a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of people's migration routes. It's been the most diverse school

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<v Speaker 2>district in the country since the nineteen eighties. I grew

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<v Speaker 2>up and went to public school here, and one of

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<v Speaker 2>the cool things about coming back and getting to be

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<v Speaker 2>the poet laureate is I'm going back into the schools

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<v Speaker 2>that I attended and just looking at them a few

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<v Speaker 2>years later down the road, thinking about all of the

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<v Speaker 2>places and stories that converge here. I really love that.

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<v Speaker 2>Another thing that's cool about the town of El Crito

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<v Speaker 2>is that the photographer Dorothea Lang photographed the Great Depression

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<v Speaker 2>and photographed a lot of people in shelterlessness and migrancy.

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<v Speaker 2>She actually had a note to herself to do a

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<v Speaker 2>photo essay on El c Rito in the nineteen forties.

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<v Speaker 2>She thought it was a fascinating place because again it

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<v Speaker 2>was getting built up really fast. People were coming together

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<v Speaker 2>to work in the shipyards. Richmond had the first desegregated

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<v Speaker 2>workplace in America in the nineteen forties, and at the

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<v Speaker 2>same time, people who lived in El Cirito Japanese Americans

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<v Speaker 2>were getting taken away for Japanese tournament. So has it

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<v Speaker 2>been a place of like fracture and paradox and possibility.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's also very beautiful. It's literally right across the

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<v Speaker 2>Golden Gate. You can stand at the edge to stand

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<v Speaker 2>in the Elsrito bart station and you're looking straight into

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<v Speaker 2>the mouth of the Golden Gate, watching the fog come

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<v Speaker 2>in or go out every day. So, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like, it's an interesting thing to try to describe

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<v Speaker 2>your home. I love that that's your first question.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, And it's one of those things too, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>because I actually grew up in Sacramento, California. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if you're familiar with this nor cal Unite, but

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<v Speaker 1>I grew up in Sacramento and I went to school

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<v Speaker 1>for undergrad at UC Davis. Actually my brothers went to

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<v Speaker 1>school UC Berkeley, but very familiar with that area. I'm curious,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, because already you have such a celebrated career,

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<v Speaker 1>but you kind of think about your life kind of

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<v Speaker 1>plays out like a beautiful novel too, going back to

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<v Speaker 1>your hometown then become a poet Laurette.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, you know, I kind of want to hit

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<v Speaker 3>on that a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I think everyone they always want to leave

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<v Speaker 1>their hometown and then you know, some people find their

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<v Speaker 1>way back.

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<v Speaker 3>How do you how do you kind of do you feel?

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<v Speaker 3>How do you feel about that?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, some people, I know, I know my experience,

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<v Speaker 1>some people that it's their biggest fear to go back

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<v Speaker 1>to where they start from.

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<v Speaker 3>Other people they love the idea of going back. How

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<v Speaker 3>have you kind of.

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<v Speaker 1>Reckoned, Like you said, home is an interesting place. How

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<v Speaker 1>do you reckoned with that idea of home?

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<v Speaker 2>Well? I feel so lucky that I have a place

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<v Speaker 2>that's this lovely that I could go back to. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of our lives, a lot of the stories

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<v Speaker 2>of this century are about exile and about plate people

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<v Speaker 2>being far from places, you know, and we all have

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<v Speaker 2>different homelands that you know, are further away from us.

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<v Speaker 2>And just even in a funny way, my father's family

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<v Speaker 2>was very deeply in Virginia for so long, and my

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<v Speaker 2>mother's family was very deeply in New England, and in some

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<v Speaker 2>ways I almost felt like our generation, their generation of

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<v Speaker 2>coming to California that even that was like a funny

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<v Speaker 2>diaspora from like these settled places where even in that

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<v Speaker 2>way they had been kind of like ingrained in a place,

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<v Speaker 2>in a culture. And you know, my parents, both of

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<v Speaker 2>them had kind of distinct ways of being that were

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit incompatible, almost like this northern New Englander

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<v Speaker 2>with who was like salty and stony and like she

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<v Speaker 2>was a little flinty, and she had all of these

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<v Speaker 2>like makerly cottagy ways, and my dad was from this

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<v Speaker 2>Virginia family that had other ways. And and I thought

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<v Speaker 2>a lot about the fact that we have these trade

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<v Speaker 2>routes in our bodies that are like the stories of

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<v Speaker 2>where we come from and the stories of the funny

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<v Speaker 2>expressions our parents use. And it was always really interested

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<v Speaker 2>in dialect towards and you know, the sort of the

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<v Speaker 2>histories that we carry with us. And I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>what I love in literature too, like I love I

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<v Speaker 2>love those stories that make me aware of, like just

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<v Speaker 2>the compassion that we have for one another's, like long

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<v Speaker 2>trade routes that are inside each other's bodies, or like

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<v Speaker 2>the unexpected convergences of stories that we feel. That's not

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<v Speaker 2>the answer of how I come back to Sorto, though.

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<v Speaker 2>The truth is I did not want to come back here.

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<v Speaker 2>I was just too old to school and I just

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<v Speaker 2>didn't I thought I was up and out. I was

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<v Speaker 2>in Boston and Brooklyn, and I thought I was going

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<v Speaker 2>to live on the Eastern Seaboard, and you know, it

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<v Speaker 2>was really getting to be just a little older, getting partnered,

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<v Speaker 2>expecting my first child. And I remember this day where

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<v Speaker 2>I drank too much coffee running around New York on

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<v Speaker 2>an empty stem, and I really agitated my pregnancy. And

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<v Speaker 2>I was walking up like a fifth floor walk up,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was just exhausted, and I thought, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to do this. I like, I could if I

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<v Speaker 2>had to, but I don't want to. And I suddenly

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<v Speaker 2>just thought about like these bungalows and these lemon trees.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought about I thought about this neighborhood that was

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<v Speaker 2>this kind of homely, scrap working class neighborhood that I'd

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<v Speaker 2>grown up in. And you know, I came back here

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<v Speaker 2>and it's the Bay and it's changed.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like.

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<v Speaker 2>So expensive to live here. Really, the Internet economy really

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<v Speaker 2>transformed a lot of the things that I loved. When

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<v Speaker 2>I grew up here, there wasn't an Internet, so it

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<v Speaker 2>was really like you were there was the distinctness to

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<v Speaker 2>this place, this Berkeley place, as opposed to other places

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<v Speaker 2>you weren't able to get, you know, to community as

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<v Speaker 2>quickly across all these boundaries and borders. And in one

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<v Speaker 2>of my poems, I said that California felt like a

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<v Speaker 2>crumbling outpost and like we were just like the furthest

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<v Speaker 2>edge of the edge of something like of the imagination

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<v Speaker 2>of America, that we were like this kind of sun baked, crumbling,

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<v Speaker 2>scrappy place that was tacked on to America at the

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<v Speaker 2>last minute, you know, for gold. But now the Internet

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<v Speaker 2>is here and We're this engine of this crazy economy

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<v Speaker 2>and this crazy like projection of images, and people were

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<v Speaker 2>you know, selling ads for Facebook and they work selling

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<v Speaker 2>ads for Twitter, and the whole kind of idea that

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<v Speaker 2>this is now the center of selling images is like,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's really different in some ways. Another thing about

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<v Speaker 2>coming back is I think actually some of the stuff

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<v Speaker 2>that I write about and thought about a lot, about

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<v Speaker 2>the fractures I felt in the public school system, about

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<v Speaker 2>this like earthquake zone that we live on, about like precariousness,

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<v Speaker 2>California feels only more precarious to me. It feels gosh,

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<v Speaker 2>the problems around income inequality and housing shortages and climate

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<v Speaker 2>catastrophe are all just they feel so intensified, even from

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<v Speaker 2>things that were here decades ago when I was growing up,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, going back into the public schools that

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<v Speaker 2>I grew up attending, I'm aware that some of the

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<v Speaker 2>issues have maybe resolved themselves and some of them haven't,

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<v Speaker 2>And it's just fascinating to see the movement of a

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<v Speaker 2>life like that.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I think that's such an interesting place. That's an

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<v Speaker 1>interesting perspective to have, and it really touches on like

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<v Speaker 1>I read in your you know, reading your bile. A

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<v Speaker 1>lot of your work, you say, deals with memory and

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<v Speaker 1>cultural reckoning, you know, especially kind of your your explanation

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<v Speaker 1>of California from what it was to what it is now.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a very that's a very fascinating perspective. I'm kind

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<v Speaker 1>of curious though, for you. I mean, you've had a

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<v Speaker 1>very very successful career in poetry and writing. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>what is the kind of what is what is the

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<v Speaker 1>you know? I think the word memory that's such a

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<v Speaker 1>that's very specific to each person, but it's also a

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<v Speaker 1>very vague term word. When you think about the word memory,

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<v Speaker 1>what does that mean to you from when you started

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<v Speaker 1>your career writing to now? And then also tell us

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<v Speaker 1>where did this Well? First off, let me say this,

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<v Speaker 1>tell us where did poetry find you?

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<v Speaker 3>Just talking to you alone right now.

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<v Speaker 1>You're a very You're a very deep sinker. I can

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<v Speaker 1>tell you're very introspective even before we even.

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<v Speaker 3>Start the interview.

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<v Speaker 1>I can just tell by the way you're forming your thoughts,

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<v Speaker 1>your sentences, you're very introspective. When did writing even find you?

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<v Speaker 1>Was it in was it in California as a little

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<v Speaker 1>girl growing up? Or did it find you somewhere along

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<v Speaker 1>your path? As you moved across places, across the states,

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<v Speaker 1>where did poetry first and foremost find you? I love

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<v Speaker 1>that you asked that question.

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<v Speaker 2>I have an uncle that's a blues musician, and when

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<v Speaker 2>you ask him why he's a blues musician, he said,

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't choose the blues. The blues chose me, which

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<v Speaker 2>I think is good. You know, it's a good answer.

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<v Speaker 2>And I mean, one of the stories that I tell

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<v Speaker 2>is that I was in college and I had auditioned

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<v Speaker 2>for the lead and a play from the visiting playwright

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<v Speaker 2>who is also the visiting poet, and the play was

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<v Speaker 2>in verse, and I delivered the lead and the visiting

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<v Speaker 2>playwright poet said why don't you show up for my class?

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<v Speaker 2>And so I did, and my heart was kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a flutter. And then the poet, his name was Lynn Maxwell.

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<v Speaker 2>He said, you know, some of you are going to

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<v Speaker 2>be using these skills to write advertising copy, or maybe

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<v Speaker 2>you'll become a lawyer and that's a really good way

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<v Speaker 2>to use language. But maybe some of you will become poets.

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<v Speaker 2>And I remember feeling incredibly stubborn that the person who

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<v Speaker 2>should become a poet would be me. The funny thing

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<v Speaker 2>is he was a great teacher, and in fact, a

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<v Speaker 2>number of us have become poets from that class, like working,

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<v Speaker 2>working writers, And there was something sort of magical about

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<v Speaker 2>the early moments of this training that we started to

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<v Speaker 2>get together. I trained a lot to be a musician.

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<v Speaker 2>As a young person, I sang. I was in a

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<v Speaker 2>choir that was allowed to sing children's parts in the

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<v Speaker 2>San Francisco opera.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was doing like a high level training. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, oh, if I exactly wanted to be an

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<v Speaker 2>opera singer. I knew that I loved like this intense

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<v Speaker 2>level of practice, and I loved like tinkering, and I

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<v Speaker 2>loved all the possibilities of art making like the I

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<v Speaker 2>loved I loved practice.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>That was kind of magical to me. But at a

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<v Speaker 2>certain point, somehow I didn't see the path forward. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>this wasn't like nobody said, don't be a singer. It

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't like that. It was just like one day I

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<v Speaker 2>was tired of that, and I took up smoking and

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<v Speaker 2>singing jazz, and then I started writing poems. And early

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<v Speaker 2>on one of the best important sensations to me was

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<v Speaker 2>that poems could be musical, that they had the quality

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<v Speaker 2>of language distilled into music. So one of the examples

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<v Speaker 2>I like to give of that is, if you say

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<v Speaker 2>the woods are lovely dark and deep, but I have

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<v Speaker 2>promises to keep and miles miles to go before I sleep,

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<v Speaker 2>you've basically said a logistical sentence. It rhymes a little bit,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's like I've got to go home. But if

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<v Speaker 2>you say the woods are lovely dark and deep, but

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<v Speaker 2>I have promises to keep and miles to go before

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<v Speaker 2>I sleep, and miles to go before I sleep, that

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<v Speaker 2>repetition right there gets you in the presence of something

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<v Speaker 2>else and you're in the presence of dealing with death. Really,

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<v Speaker 2>it feels like death has showed up in the poem,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's really in the magic of the echo that

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<v Speaker 2>something at some other meaning is being transacted, and the

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<v Speaker 2>idea that you're doing some music with your words that

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<v Speaker 2>is pulling against with the surface of meaning, that the

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<v Speaker 2>music of language is working with the surface of language

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<v Speaker 2>to create this sensation of being inside something like that reverberates.

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<v Speaker 2>I just that I think was the first of the magics,

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<v Speaker 2>and that was like the first kind of spell casting

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<v Speaker 2>part of the poem making. Who was kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>getting to be a magical musical composer for the breath,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and that was that was like one of

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<v Speaker 2>the gateway drugs. And then ever since then there have

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<v Speaker 2>been so many more gateway drugs. I'm like twenty five

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<v Speaker 2>years in keep going.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely tell me a bit about like that, Like you

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<v Speaker 1>said that magic making.

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<v Speaker 3>How was that magic making from the start of your

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<v Speaker 3>career to where it is now? I mean, what is that?

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<v Speaker 1>What is that kind of trajectory for you felt and

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<v Speaker 1>look like like when you began, did you ever see

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<v Speaker 1>that you would have? You know New York Times Best

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<v Speaker 1>Poetry Book at twenty sixteen from the poet Lurie of

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<v Speaker 1>your Hometown. I mean, all these celebrated works, What has

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<v Speaker 1>really changed from.

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<v Speaker 3>Beginning till now for you?

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<v Speaker 1>And in terms of maybe your growth, Like you said,

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<v Speaker 1>memory and cultural reckoning is something you really take note of.

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<v Speaker 1>What has been your own cultural reckoning and your own

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<v Speaker 1>lineage path of life?

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<v Speaker 4>Oh wow, Yeah, you asked a great question earlier about memory.

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<v Speaker 1>So memory, like I said, memory making, that is such

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<v Speaker 1>a vague term, but it's very specific to each person

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<v Speaker 1>at the same time, right, memory, what does memory mean

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<v Speaker 1>to you? From the beginning of when you started twenty

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<v Speaker 1>five years ago, as you said to now in.

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<v Speaker 2>Your career, what does the kind of cultural.

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<v Speaker 1>Reckoning and what does memory mean in terms of your

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<v Speaker 1>writing and your poetry from now until today?

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<v Speaker 3>What does that term even mean for you?

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<v Speaker 2>Now?

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<v Speaker 4>You know, it's funny when you say the word memory

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<v Speaker 4>and you ask me to talk about memory, I immediately

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<v Speaker 4>think of that Louse Sille Clifton poem that says why

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<v Speaker 4>some people be mad at me sometimes, and it's a

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<v Speaker 4>very short poem, Why some.

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<v Speaker 2>People be mad at me sometimes? They ask me to remember,

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<v Speaker 2>but they want me to remember their memories, and I

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<v Speaker 2>keep on remembering mine. And I just love about each

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<v Speaker 2>of us that we all carry within us something that's

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<v Speaker 2>defiant to received history. I'm sure that we do. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>sure that each of us has this moment when we're

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<v Speaker 2>told it's a certain way and we discover that's not so. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>we discover that there's something else we need to know.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that's the moment when we confront the

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<v Speaker 2>ghosts of our family, the ghosts of our culture, the

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<v Speaker 2>ghost of our country. Really, and what's really interesting and

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<v Speaker 2>important about poetry is that poetry, especially the lyric, is

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<v Speaker 2>a place to have conversations that cannot really be transacted

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<v Speaker 2>by other medium. Absolutely, I could tell you did you

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<v Speaker 2>send the letter on Tuesday, and you could say yes,

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<v Speaker 2>we would not be speaking in a poem. But if

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<v Speaker 2>it is at the level where we have to address

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<v Speaker 2>the ghosts of our family, the ghosts of our culture,

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<v Speaker 2>or the ghosts of our country, we begin to be

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<v Speaker 2>transacting speech that needs to take place at the level

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<v Speaker 2>of poetry. And that speech might take place in a play,

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<v Speaker 2>but the play would be delivering monologues that would essentially

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<v Speaker 2>be poems. You know, when you are addressing an inanimate

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<v Speaker 2>or something that can't speak back, but you need to

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<v Speaker 2>reckon with it, that is like an essentially poetic form

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<v Speaker 2>of address right there. And so when I realized that

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<v Speaker 2>poetry was a vessel for having these arguments, which are

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<v Speaker 2>essentially about trying to get right with the broken places

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<v Speaker 2>in our history and ourselves and our families and our country,

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<v Speaker 2>that was something that woke me up a great deal.

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<v Speaker 2>And so that's one thing. It's a place for recovering

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<v Speaker 2>things that have been left out or to the side.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think all of my books so far have

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<v Speaker 2>a way of doing some kind of digging or excavation

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<v Speaker 2>with things that had been left out or left to

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<v Speaker 2>the side or don't sit right. And you know, I

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00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:56.720
<v Speaker 2>was talking about all of this kind of feeling of

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<v Speaker 2>returning to California, and I'll just say it like the

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<v Speaker 2>most gracious way I can. You know, I attended a

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00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:10.720
<v Speaker 2>very imperfectly desegregated school district. The I mean that is

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<v Speaker 2>a gracious way of saying like, I grew up in

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<v Speaker 2>the presence of like gross inequities and violences that were

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<v Speaker 2>happening around me, and I didn't have the language to

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<v Speaker 2>understand what they were or what was happening, or exactly

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<v Speaker 2>why or how. And I'm not even sure we ever do.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think that sense that we need to explain

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<v Speaker 2>the places from which we came, or that we want

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<v Speaker 2>to reach out and look into the things that we

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00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:45.039
<v Speaker 2>didn't understand before and that we need to understand. And

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<v Speaker 2>poetry is just such a powerful way of having tools

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<v Speaker 2>for giving voice. So I think that's kind of what

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<v Speaker 2>I mean by memory and reckoning.

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<v Speaker 3>For sure.

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<v Speaker 1>For sure, there's something that you said that I really loved.

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<v Speaker 1>It was this idea that memory is What did you say?

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<v Speaker 1>It said you basically may note that memory is. People

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<v Speaker 1>want you to remember things the way they remembered it, right, Yeah, absolutely,

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<v Speaker 1>This idea that we are, you know, our own perspective

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<v Speaker 1>on the world and our own history and our own

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<v Speaker 1>culture is what really uh ingrains itself in us to

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<v Speaker 1>create those memories.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I love that.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that. So let's move on a bit right now,

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<v Speaker 1>let's talk about one of your widely knowmeworks, work in Days,

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<v Speaker 1>which was one of New York Times Best Poetry Books

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<v Speaker 1>of twenty sixteen. Tell me a little bit about, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to receive an honor like that, I mean, tell me.

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<v Speaker 3>Kind of what you know.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of people that listen to this show always ask,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, ask the person, ask the poet how they.

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<v Speaker 3>How they even began a career in writing.

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<v Speaker 1>I think so many people want to write poetry, So

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<v Speaker 1>many people write poetry. A lot of people don't see

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<v Speaker 1>it as a career, right for a numerous myriad of reasons,

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<v Speaker 1>money making, economic, cultural, right.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, being an artist is not an easy life.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell us, like a little bit about, I mean, to

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<v Speaker 1>receive such an honor for was a very special piece,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure to you. What does that you know, looking

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<v Speaker 1>back in twenty sixteens. Even now, what is that now?

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<v Speaker 1>Kind of when you look back on I'm sure, what

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<v Speaker 1>was a wild ride for that release?

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<v Speaker 3>What does it mean now?

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<v Speaker 1>And what does it what does it feel like?

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<v Speaker 3>Still?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that book, Work in Days was a really special book.

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<v Speaker 2>It came out of a really special time. I mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>that I'd been kind of scrapping it together. In Brooklyn,

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<v Speaker 2>I worked, you know, I worked as a waitress in

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<v Speaker 2>a funeral parlor that I worked as a waitress in

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00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:55.039
<v Speaker 2>a restaurant that had been a funeral parlor. I wrote

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00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:58.000
<v Speaker 2>pr on the side, I wrote jacket copy for books.

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<v Speaker 2>I taught a little bit, and I was hustling the

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<v Speaker 2>hustle and a lot of us do in this crazy

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<v Speaker 2>gig economy, this kind of thankless crazy gig economy that

394
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:14.599
<v Speaker 2>is super late capitalism or whatever we're going to call

395
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<v Speaker 2>it right now. And I received for the first time,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a major fellowship, which was this fellowship to

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<v Speaker 2>go live at the Amy Clampett House in Western Massachusetts.

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<v Speaker 2>It's way out in Lenox, It's right by where Tanglewood

399
00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:41.119
<v Speaker 2>is and they usually give six months fellowships. And for

400
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<v Speaker 2>some reason it was a complicated year. I just they

401
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:47.039
<v Speaker 2>gave me the whole year to sit in this house

402
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:50.359
<v Speaker 2>of this poet who also had a hard life, but

403
00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:54.160
<v Speaker 2>she had left she'd you know, want a MacArthur and

404
00:23:54.279 --> 00:23:56.839
<v Speaker 2>left her house for other poets to write in. And

405
00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:00.519
<v Speaker 2>this is a gift, right, this little oasis that happen.

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00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:06.000
<v Speaker 2>So for an entire year I had housing and a

407
00:24:06.039 --> 00:24:10.680
<v Speaker 2>really good stipend, and in fact, I knew I'd have

408
00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:14.319
<v Speaker 2>more time on my hands than I could really productively

409
00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:19.039
<v Speaker 2>use because I've always been a gardener, and gardening is

410
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<v Speaker 2>one of the things that I do as a kind

411
00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:25.079
<v Speaker 2>of like practice. I called them to see if there'd

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00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:29.359
<v Speaker 2>be any community gardens up there, and they were like, well,

413
00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:31.359
<v Speaker 2>it's nice that you want to come to this rural area,

414
00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:33.880
<v Speaker 2>but we don't have community gardens. We have farms. Would

415
00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.519
<v Speaker 2>you like to work on a farm? And so I

416
00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:43.920
<v Speaker 2>said okay, And I found a three acre community supported

417
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:47.079
<v Speaker 2>agriculture farm that was irrigated by the Green River that

418
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:50.880
<v Speaker 2>served a bunch of restaurants and eighty eight families vegetables

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00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:55.440
<v Speaker 2>this summer. And I called them and they were like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>it's January. You can show up in like March, sure, April.

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<v Speaker 2>As soon as the earth melts and then they'll be

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00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:08.000
<v Speaker 2>work to do. And I signed on and it was

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00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:11.480
<v Speaker 2>crazy because you know, at first there wasn't any work

424
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:17.480
<v Speaker 2>to do because it was frozen. And then the very

425
00:25:17.559 --> 00:25:21.799
<v Speaker 2>first work was literally bending down, you know, old school

426
00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:26.000
<v Speaker 2>style and pulling stones out of the field. And then

427
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:30.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, the next work was coddling these little starts

428
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:34.880
<v Speaker 2>inside this greenhouse and they literally sat on electric blankets.

429
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:39.839
<v Speaker 2>They were in a greenhouse with electric plugged in electric

430
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:42.119
<v Speaker 2>blankets to warm them up, to get them ready to go.

431
00:25:43.160 --> 00:25:45.880
<v Speaker 2>And then just as the leaves started coming out, that

432
00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:47.960
<v Speaker 2>same week that the leaves come out, you put the

433
00:25:47.960 --> 00:25:52.119
<v Speaker 2>first lettuces in the ground, and there was such this

434
00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:57.400
<v Speaker 2>intense worry. Then you know, what if there's one more storm,

435
00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:00.039
<v Speaker 2>or what if it's suddenly too hot? Like I I

436
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:03.319
<v Speaker 2>felt so intensely aware of the fragility of the enterprise

437
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:05.880
<v Speaker 2>of farming, which is the enterprise of getting us food.

438
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:11.119
<v Speaker 2>And so it was this year that I had off

439
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:16.359
<v Speaker 2>of normal hustle and to do like deep thinking and

440
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:17.039
<v Speaker 2>deep work.

441
00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:18.119
<v Speaker 3>And I just.

442
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:24.839
<v Speaker 2>I want to say that I really, you know, you

443
00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:27.039
<v Speaker 2>feel sort of guilty or something like everybody else is

444
00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:28.839
<v Speaker 2>out doing their hustle, and I had this gift of

445
00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:31.519
<v Speaker 2>a year. But it was a year where I could

446
00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:36.880
<v Speaker 2>be really watchful sort of on behalf of big questions,

447
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:40.880
<v Speaker 2>on behalf of the culture. And I still love that

448
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:43.160
<v Speaker 2>book and I've never I haven't had that kind of

449
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:46.559
<v Speaker 2>time since. Then by the end of the year, I

450
00:26:46.599 --> 00:26:50.000
<v Speaker 2>was becoming a parent, and you know, then I went

451
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:54.960
<v Speaker 2>back to like again, the juggling the gig economies of

452
00:26:55.039 --> 00:27:00.279
<v Speaker 2>late capitalism and childcare and you know so, but I

453
00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:03.920
<v Speaker 2>would just say the fact that I was given that

454
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:06.000
<v Speaker 2>time and that it was honored was a huge deal,

455
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:11.559
<v Speaker 2>and it made me really understand the need for deep

456
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:15.640
<v Speaker 2>space that like if where there can be spaces for

457
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:20.599
<v Speaker 2>artists to have that time to go deep, like I sow.

458
00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:22.920
<v Speaker 2>I would love for every I would love for every

459
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:26.519
<v Speaker 2>maker in America to be able to apply for like

460
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:31.240
<v Speaker 2>long fellowships, to be able to just really go think,

461
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:34.480
<v Speaker 2>think more unconstrainedly.

462
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:38.559
<v Speaker 1>You know, you make such a great point test that

463
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:42.599
<v Speaker 1>idea of I was just I was doing a panel

464
00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:45.480
<v Speaker 1>the other day for a mental health show and we

465
00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:49.079
<v Speaker 1>had talked about this idea of just being able to.

466
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:53.279
<v Speaker 3>Not create, not you know, create produce.

467
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:57.119
<v Speaker 1>A lot of us feel a genuine guilt when you

468
00:27:57.200 --> 00:28:00.440
<v Speaker 1>just sit back and maybe not do and produce right

469
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:04.519
<v Speaker 1>because of like you had mentioned capitalism right though day

470
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:07.839
<v Speaker 1>to day grin, it's one of those things, yeah, that

471
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:10.640
<v Speaker 1>that kind of idea to give yourself that sacred time

472
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:13.039
<v Speaker 1>to really just.

473
00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:13.480
<v Speaker 3>Just be right.

474
00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:16.839
<v Speaker 1>Like I know, even people, let's say, even they pay

475
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:20.480
<v Speaker 1>for a holiday and vacation, they feel guilty about just

476
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:24.119
<v Speaker 1>sleeping all day. Can you imagine that you feel guilty

477
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:26.920
<v Speaker 1>after you just paid for flights and hotels.

478
00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:29.279
<v Speaker 3>To go all the way across the world, right, And

479
00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:30.279
<v Speaker 3>it's this kind of idea.

480
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.920
<v Speaker 1>We feel, this kind of a nested me to just

481
00:28:34.039 --> 00:28:37.920
<v Speaker 1>kind of create, create and produce, produce. And it's one

482
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:39.759
<v Speaker 1>of those things, like you said, Yeah, if we could

483
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:42.400
<v Speaker 1>just really give that to every single human being, every

484
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:46.119
<v Speaker 1>soul on this earth, the opportunity to just just be right.

485
00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:49.640
<v Speaker 1>Talk a little bit about how how how important do

486
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:53.480
<v Speaker 1>you think that that concept is though to especially to

487
00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:56.640
<v Speaker 1>someone that's an artist, or even just for just all

488
00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:59.000
<v Speaker 1>of people, how important is it to just kind of

489
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:03.200
<v Speaker 1>just be like you said, that space, that's something you

490
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:06.000
<v Speaker 1>clearly look back on fondly, that time that you were

491
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:10.480
<v Speaker 1>given to just create or just really just stand still

492
00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:12.200
<v Speaker 1>and just be a part.

493
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:15.240
<v Speaker 2>You bring up such a great point about how are

494
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:18.200
<v Speaker 2>we supposed to value rest in this culture? And I

495
00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:22.440
<v Speaker 2>actually have this project right now about reading books about rest.

496
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:26.920
<v Speaker 2>And one of the people who's writing about rest is

497
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:29.200
<v Speaker 2>this woman Jenny O'Dell who has a book about how

498
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:34.359
<v Speaker 2>to Do Nothing. There's another book woman named Tricia Hersey

499
00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:37.920
<v Speaker 2>who she's written this book about the ministry of napping.

500
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:45.039
<v Speaker 2>And she realized that she felt like she had to

501
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:48.319
<v Speaker 2>produce every moment and that she was sort of like

502
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:54.240
<v Speaker 2>working herself into sort of a deep exhaustion, and that

503
00:29:54.279 --> 00:29:58.839
<v Speaker 2>she would find that rest five minutes, ten minutes, twenty

504
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:06.079
<v Speaker 2>minutes was this way of actually like honoring herself, her ancestors,

505
00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:10.400
<v Speaker 2>her spiritual wellbeing, and a way of like fighting back

506
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:15.720
<v Speaker 2>against this notion that we have to like monetize every minute.

507
00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:19.519
<v Speaker 2>Another book is called Rest by Alex Sujung Kim Peng,

508
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:23.680
<v Speaker 2>and a thing that's amazing in it is that he

509
00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:26.680
<v Speaker 2>actually kind of quantifies that some of the people who

510
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:31.640
<v Speaker 2>are able to be the most creative and productive, we

511
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:35.200
<v Speaker 2>focus on their productivity, but if you look at their lives,

512
00:30:35.240 --> 00:30:39.960
<v Speaker 2>they also have patterns that allow more rest. And I

513
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:42.480
<v Speaker 2>talked to him recently, and he was like, all work

514
00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:47.920
<v Speaker 2>is creative work. You know, nursing is creative work, Teaching

515
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:51.960
<v Speaker 2>is creative work. Anything that requires firefighting is creative work.

516
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:57.640
<v Speaker 2>And that anything that requires human discernment is something that

517
00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:01.759
<v Speaker 2>should be done with a balance of resting. And what

518
00:31:01.799 --> 00:31:04.319
<v Speaker 2>would it be like if we really took it seriously

519
00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:09.559
<v Speaker 2>that we were going to be better off all of us, healthier, happier,

520
00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:13.079
<v Speaker 2>living longer, but also more in touch with our creative

521
00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:17.480
<v Speaker 2>beings if we just gave ourselves more rest. And he's

522
00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:19.240
<v Speaker 2>the kind of guy. This is a guy who gets

523
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:23.400
<v Speaker 2>up at five in the morning to write. But but

524
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:28.839
<v Speaker 2>but but he he takes twenty minute naps after lunch

525
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:31.440
<v Speaker 2>every day, which I just thought, what is it, What

526
00:31:31.480 --> 00:31:33.480
<v Speaker 2>is it that I could give myself? You know, what

527
00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:35.279
<v Speaker 2>is it that each of us could give ourselves in

528
00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:37.799
<v Speaker 2>the middle of this crazy life that we're all doing

529
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:39.359
<v Speaker 2>with this all of this hustle.

530
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:40.519
<v Speaker 3>Is there a.

531
00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:46.839
<v Speaker 2>Way to create boundaries where there's space for reverie, there's

532
00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:50.559
<v Speaker 2>space for dreaming, and honestly, there's space for naps.

533
00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:55.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you know I love that.

534
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:57.279
<v Speaker 1>I love that phrase though. I love that all work

535
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:01.359
<v Speaker 1>is some sort of creative work. I really I liken

536
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:04.680
<v Speaker 1>myself to that phrase. Even just I would say, I mean,

537
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:09.000
<v Speaker 1>even just the arrangement of how you you know, arrange

538
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:12.119
<v Speaker 1>your toothpaste with your toothbrush in the morning, or how

539
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:14.519
<v Speaker 1>you even decide to wash your body in the morning.

540
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:16.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, those are all just creative works of the

541
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:19.640
<v Speaker 1>spirit and soul. I do believe, at least now you

542
00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:20.759
<v Speaker 1>arrange your dinner plate.

543
00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:21.559
<v Speaker 3>No, I love that.

544
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:25.880
<v Speaker 5>I'm gonna go ahead taking flight in those things, right,

545
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:31.400
<v Speaker 5>like take having time to have pleasure in your body,

546
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:38.880
<v Speaker 5>having making the space for the joy that is available

547
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:42.400
<v Speaker 5>to you is I mean, ross Que calls it a

548
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:44.519
<v Speaker 5>defiant act, right, it is.

549
00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:50.000
<v Speaker 2>It is so important, and that that's like this place

550
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:52.559
<v Speaker 2>where we renew ourselves and we get ready to look

551
00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:56.200
<v Speaker 2>at all of the difficult things, you know, and to

552
00:32:56.319 --> 00:32:59.279
<v Speaker 2>live into some of these these you know, really painful

553
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:01.480
<v Speaker 2>challenges come our way every day.

554
00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:03.480
<v Speaker 3>One thousand percent.

555
00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:06.359
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely finding the pleasure in the in the docile and

556
00:33:06.440 --> 00:33:07.240
<v Speaker 1>the mundane.

557
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:08.359
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely. I love that.

558
00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Moving on a bit, I mean, test has been such

559
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:12.200
<v Speaker 1>a great interview thus far.

560
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:14.680
<v Speaker 3>I want to talk about this is.

561
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:19.599
<v Speaker 1>A very interesting uh spick I found. So you're developing

562
00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:24.279
<v Speaker 1>the stage play of American photographer Dorothea Lang tell us

563
00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:26.759
<v Speaker 1>a little bit about what that project will be looking

564
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:29.400
<v Speaker 1>like and what are you looking forward to it?

565
00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:31.640
<v Speaker 3>Then how did this even kind of conceive together?

566
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:33.079
<v Speaker 1>So?

567
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:37.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh, so we talked about Alsto. We talked about how

568
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.160
<v Speaker 2>I didn't think I could live here. Again, I didn't.

569
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:42.279
<v Speaker 2>I thought I thought I was too cool for this place,

570
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:45.519
<v Speaker 2>and I wanted to be gone. Yeah, and when I

571
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:48.519
<v Speaker 2>came back, I had a small child, and the thing

572
00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:50.400
<v Speaker 2>that you can do with a small child is you

573
00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:52.759
<v Speaker 2>can walk around the block with the child on your

574
00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:56.240
<v Speaker 2>chest or in the st again and again, hoping that

575
00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:59.160
<v Speaker 2>they will go to sleep, or just soothing them down.

576
00:34:01.160 --> 00:34:03.559
<v Speaker 2>So I'm walking by the bungalows of my childhood that

577
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:07.480
<v Speaker 2>I had left a long time before, and thinking, in

578
00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:11.320
<v Speaker 2>what way can I make something of this experience? And

579
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:14.239
<v Speaker 2>then I realized through a little bit of research, that

580
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:18.119
<v Speaker 2>Dorothea Lang had photographed this town of bungalows in the

581
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:21.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, in the late thirties and early forties. And

582
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:24.199
<v Speaker 2>I got really intrigued, like what did she see here?

583
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:28.519
<v Speaker 2>And at the same time, you're a Californian, you know

584
00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:33.280
<v Speaker 2>that the kind of visual stuff that she documented in

585
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:37.239
<v Speaker 2>the thirties and forties of people living intense and extremely

586
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:41.079
<v Speaker 2>fragile and precarious housing. That is something that is part

587
00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:44.880
<v Speaker 2>of our visual landscape everywhere in California, and that the

588
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:49.280
<v Speaker 2>feeling of living in the presence of unsheltered people or

589
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:55.400
<v Speaker 2>people with marginal shelter has become endemic in these cities.

590
00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:59.679
<v Speaker 2>And I just kept thinking, was it Dorothea Lane just

591
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:02.960
<v Speaker 2>here photographing this very problem, and didn't it seem to

592
00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:06.719
<v Speaker 2>go away or change? And why are we living in

593
00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:11.239
<v Speaker 2>the presence of She's the person who's taught me something

594
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:15.000
<v Speaker 2>about what it is to look at this situation with

595
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:21.599
<v Speaker 2>care and with dignity, And I got fascinated. I went

596
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:24.639
<v Speaker 2>and looked at her notebooks. I ended up driving all

597
00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:27.880
<v Speaker 2>the places she'd driven in California in the thirties and forties.

598
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:31.280
<v Speaker 2>I ended up writing her letters from the present. And

599
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:37.800
<v Speaker 2>her notebooks have these cool, staccato, interesting, fabulous like pop

600
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:41.639
<v Speaker 2>pop things that she gathered alongside of the road, like

601
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:45.599
<v Speaker 2>how much gas cost, how much beans cost? All that

602
00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:48.719
<v Speaker 2>stuff about getting by. She was a documentarian of the

603
00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:53.320
<v Speaker 2>art of getting by. And she also had these haunting phrases,

604
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:56.440
<v Speaker 2>like people would say things to her like, this country's

605
00:35:56.480 --> 00:35:59.360
<v Speaker 2>a hard country. When you die, you're dead, that's all

606
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:05.920
<v Speaker 2>m And I just thought, yeah, this country is a

607
00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:11.000
<v Speaker 2>hard country, you know. And it ended up being this

608
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:16.239
<v Speaker 2>collage poem of all these voices, voices, my voice to

609
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Dorothea Lang, Dorothea Lang's notebook voice, all the voices on

610
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:24.639
<v Speaker 2>the side of the road, and less like an exact

611
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:28.039
<v Speaker 2>theater play and more like this kind of symphony of voices,

612
00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:32.199
<v Speaker 2>and the poem is like a collage of voices that

613
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:36.199
<v Speaker 2>all talk almost past each other in this You have

614
00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:39.000
<v Speaker 2>to believe me. I think it builds. I mean, I

615
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:43.320
<v Speaker 2>think it's more it's kind of musical. And somebody said,

616
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:45.079
<v Speaker 2>what would it be like if you actually had the

617
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:47.440
<v Speaker 2>voices speaking, like if you made it into a play,

618
00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:55.199
<v Speaker 2>And this idea grew. A wonderful director approached me and

619
00:36:55.360 --> 00:37:00.639
<v Speaker 2>working with a projectionist who is creating this back this

620
00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:06.159
<v Speaker 2>kind of moving interactive backdrop of projected Lang images. So

621
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:10.079
<v Speaker 2>it's a little bit like a surrounding immersive experience and

622
00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:16.000
<v Speaker 2>you'll sit there and it will be like Lang and

623
00:37:16.039 --> 00:37:18.159
<v Speaker 2>the poet and the people on the side of the

624
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:22.480
<v Speaker 2>road are calling out to you, and meanwhile her images

625
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:25.840
<v Speaker 2>are going by and you know, it's going to be

626
00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:29.519
<v Speaker 2>the ninetieth anniversary of the Works Progress Administration, which was

627
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:32.280
<v Speaker 2>the government organization that funded her work, in the one

628
00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:36.800
<v Speaker 2>hundred and thirtieth anniversary of her birth. And my hope

629
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:40.199
<v Speaker 2>is that a consortium of California museums is going to

630
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:46.320
<v Speaker 2>come together and do this sort of re engagement of Lang.

631
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:49.840
<v Speaker 2>And I guess the question is, here's a woman that

632
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:57.920
<v Speaker 2>photographed shelterlessness, climate change, climate migration, and all of those

633
00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:02.320
<v Speaker 2>issues are with us today. Yeah, what can she teach us?

634
00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:03.199
<v Speaker 3>What can we.

635
00:38:03.239 --> 00:38:07.280
<v Speaker 2>Learn about ourselves by re engaging her? And also I

636
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:11.440
<v Speaker 2>guess the bigger, biggest question is like what could art

637
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:16.280
<v Speaker 2>do to be part of the repair? She was on

638
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:20.960
<v Speaker 2>a government sponsored journey that had to do with all

639
00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:25.960
<v Speaker 2>kinds of gestures to buttress America, to build bridges, to

640
00:38:26.039 --> 00:38:31.000
<v Speaker 2>build high schools, to build oral histories, to let zorniil

641
00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:33.719
<v Speaker 2>Hirshston and Ralph Ellison have a paycheck while they did

642
00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:36.800
<v Speaker 2>amazing work on behalf of our country. And she was

643
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:39.639
<v Speaker 2>part of that. And is are we at a different

644
00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:43.119
<v Speaker 2>moment where we need to talk about how can art

645
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:46.320
<v Speaker 2>be part of the conversations towards repair that we need

646
00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:53.400
<v Speaker 2>to be having like yesterday now tomorrow, and so to me,

647
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:56.320
<v Speaker 2>I think part of getting her voice out there and

648
00:38:56.320 --> 00:38:59.679
<v Speaker 2>her images out there is to help us ask ourselves

649
00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:02.119
<v Speaker 2>now what should we do?

650
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:05.039
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely?

651
00:39:05.079 --> 00:39:08.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, now it's very that sounds like a very passion project.

652
00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:10.719
<v Speaker 1>And not wishing you all the best. You have a

653
00:39:10.760 --> 00:39:13.280
<v Speaker 1>potentative year in which you hope to see that.

654
00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Come to life fall of twenty twenty five.

655
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:20.119
<v Speaker 1>Awesome, all right, we'll definitely be looking forward to that

656
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:24.199
<v Speaker 1>amazing legacy of laying all right, well tests. This has

657
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:28.400
<v Speaker 1>been such a great, great, great conversation and for folks

658
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:30.840
<v Speaker 1>that are wondering, you know again, check out all tests

659
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:31.840
<v Speaker 1>is amazing work.

660
00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:33.599
<v Speaker 3>I'll test before we go.

661
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:35.840
<v Speaker 1>We have one final question for you on the poll

662
00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:36.880
<v Speaker 1>Speaks podcast.

663
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:39.920
<v Speaker 3>Tell me why do you need to get your words out?

664
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:47.320
<v Speaker 2>Because they feel itchy. If I don't, they actually like

665
00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:50.840
<v Speaker 2>hurt on the inside of my brain, I will wake

666
00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:54.559
<v Speaker 2>up and I'll be like that is like it feels

667
00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:58.800
<v Speaker 2>like having like a little do you know when you

668
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:02.239
<v Speaker 2>listen to like get like an earworm, you know, like

669
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:04.599
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of song and it's just stuck in

670
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:08.639
<v Speaker 2>your head. That's kind of how it starts for me,

671
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:11.880
<v Speaker 2>and you know, in a way nobody cares if you

672
00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:13.760
<v Speaker 2>write a poem or not, like you could just take

673
00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:17.960
<v Speaker 2>a break from a poem. But I don't know. I

674
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:20.440
<v Speaker 2>think there you are suddenly in the presence of this

675
00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:23.239
<v Speaker 2>thing inside you that wants to be heard, and then

676
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:25.920
<v Speaker 2>you start to say yes and you give it space

677
00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:30.480
<v Speaker 2>and literally though like I will feel like I have

678
00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:32.960
<v Speaker 2>something knocking around and I just have to get it

679
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:35.280
<v Speaker 2>down and get it out, and that in that first

680
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:38.320
<v Speaker 2>moment when I get it out onto paper, I really

681
00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:41.239
<v Speaker 2>don't care if it becomes a great poem or not.

682
00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:44.760
<v Speaker 2>I just had an itchy feeling of lots of language

683
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:47.920
<v Speaker 2>in the in the you know, on the side underneath

684
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:51.719
<v Speaker 2>my eyebrow or something, and it's like I gotta drain that,

685
00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:53.679
<v Speaker 2>all right, all.

686
00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:57.360
<v Speaker 3>Right, I'll set her itch. That's what it is. That's

687
00:40:57.360 --> 00:40:59.519
<v Speaker 3>why she must get her words up, all right. Thank

688
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:00.000
<v Speaker 3>you so much.

689
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:03.199
<v Speaker 1>Tests Now before we end and do tell us where

690
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:04.280
<v Speaker 1>can folks check out.

691
00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:05.199
<v Speaker 3>Off your amazing work.

692
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:08.519
<v Speaker 1>Any links for websites, social media, and just tell us

693
00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:10.280
<v Speaker 1>what is coming up next for you for folks to

694
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:12.000
<v Speaker 1>look into for twenty twenty four.

695
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:17.320
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, I'm at Tessathon on Instagram. I would love

696
00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:20.679
<v Speaker 2>to connect with you there. I'm a little bit on Facebook.

697
00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:24.239
<v Speaker 2>I am no longer much into X and I haven't

698
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:27.440
<v Speaker 2>dabbled in the other things yet, so I like to

699
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:30.440
<v Speaker 2>keep it like a little rosy and positive on Instagram.

700
00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:33.719
<v Speaker 2>It does not you know. That is like the place

701
00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:37.199
<v Speaker 2>that I probably hang out the most. I just edited

702
00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:40.400
<v Speaker 2>a book of contemporary gardening poems or an Era of

703
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Climate Change. It's called Leaning Toward Light Poems for Gardens

704
00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:47.320
<v Speaker 2>and the hands that tend them. If you are a gardener,

705
00:41:47.599 --> 00:41:51.000
<v Speaker 2>if you love the way microbes and pollinators and flowers

706
00:41:51.079 --> 00:41:54.320
<v Speaker 2>conspire to make our lives more beautiful, if you believe

707
00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:56.920
<v Speaker 2>in the radical abundance the plants can give, this might

708
00:41:56.920 --> 00:42:00.000
<v Speaker 2>be a book for you. If your mama is that person,

709
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:02.760
<v Speaker 2>and it might be a good book for her. And

710
00:42:02.840 --> 00:42:05.559
<v Speaker 2>I just finished up a big tour, so this summer

711
00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:09.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm laying low working on new poems. But I'll be

712
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.239
<v Speaker 2>out again in the world in the fall. And I

713
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:19.039
<v Speaker 2>would love to meet you. And I'm really happy to

714
00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:23.400
<v Speaker 2>be able to talk to fellow writers over this podcast medium.

715
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:27.119
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely l Tests would love to meet you as well,

716
00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:30.000
<v Speaker 1>and everyone check out All Tests is amazing work.

717
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:31.840
<v Speaker 3>We'll have her links in the description.

718
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:35.079
<v Speaker 1>No matter what platform you're listening to this amazing podcast,

719
00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:38.239
<v Speaker 1>her links will be in the description box down below.

720
00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:41.599
<v Speaker 1>Our tests were so honored, Prilegion, thankful that you were

721
00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:44.840
<v Speaker 1>able to embrace us your amazing presence and words and

722
00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:46.119
<v Speaker 1>have this amazing conversation.

723
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:47.519
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much for being a guest on the

724
00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:48.559
<v Speaker 3>Post Speaks podcast.

725
00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:51.960
<v Speaker 2>Test Amanda, it was totally the joy was mine. Thank

726
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:53.480
<v Speaker 2>you so much for this afternoon.

727
00:42:54.039 --> 00:42:56.599
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely all right everyone again, check out all Tests is

728
00:42:56.639 --> 00:42:59.199
<v Speaker 1>amazing work, and check out the Pole Speaks podcast wherever

729
00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:01.440
<v Speaker 1>you listen to podcast all right, the live one