Speaker 1: Good morning sports cards fans, and welcome back to Hobby
Speaker 1: Hotline on four Collectors. My name is Dan. I have
Speaker 1: a channel right here, but I am joined by Esteemed
Speaker 1: panel today. Lauren is nice to see you this morning.
Speaker 1: You and I have actually never been on Hobby Hotline before,
Speaker 1: but of course we've communicated many times in the Hobby
Speaker 1: Hotline chat. So good morning to you. How are you?
Speaker 2: I am good. I'm happy to be here with you
Speaker 2: and Chris, and I think we got some good topics
Speaker 2: to get into, so it's gonna be a good morning.
Speaker 1: And Chris, how are you doing all right?
Speaker 3: I'm pinch hitting for another Hobby Hotline post or couldn't
Speaker 3: make it today.
Speaker 1: Well, that's what we nay each other out.
Speaker 3: That's I think that's kind of my job. That guy
Speaker 3: that comes in in the seventh or eighth inning, you're behind,
Speaker 3: you got a man on base. They bring in the
Speaker 3: left hander out of the bullpen, and you bring the
Speaker 3: left off the off the bench to face him.
Speaker 1: Well, there you go.
Speaker 3: Yes, let's keep rocking in the free world.
Speaker 1: There, Bob So I did not attend the National Laura
Speaker 1: and I were just discussing this a short time ago,
Speaker 1: but both of you did. Both of you were on
Speaker 1: the big stage, and I saw the picture of.
Speaker 3: A very nice stage this year, but I think we
Speaker 3: had like actual cushion. Yeah, kind of went all out.
Speaker 3: So that's pretty good.
Speaker 1: There you go. One thing I did notice, Chris is
Speaker 1: that you're a very tall man.
Speaker 3: Yes I am. I'm a very large man six three.
Speaker 1: Six, I have six to one. So if I stood
Speaker 1: next to you, you'd make me look small, which is
Speaker 1: is a rarity in my life. But anyway, so let
Speaker 1: me let's let's go over and say hello to the
Speaker 1: chat this morning. Uh uh. Phil Pie was here already
Speaker 1: before we even opened. Asked who our guests were talked
Speaker 1: about the back and shutdown which we will be talking about,
Speaker 1: and I answered him Chris and Lauren. No, Uncle Rich, Yes, sorry.
Speaker 1: Uncle Rich and I have done many shows together. He's
Speaker 1: usually on with me and it's a it's wonderful, but
Speaker 1: not his ton. Uncle Rich is one of my guys,
Speaker 1: and he's definitely one of our our guys.
Speaker 3: We missed him at the National.
Speaker 1: He didn't Good morning to Mad City brew yank me
Speaker 1: card Steve, Hello from Tucson. I assume that's Tucson, Arizona.
Speaker 1: Red light three four three, Good morning from the crane.
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means the crane, you guys know.
Speaker 1: Peter b good morning. Oh the great Bob Bob Boosel
Speaker 1: is here. That is a that is a good piece
Speaker 1: of information. Pastor Craig, how are you, sir this morning?
Speaker 3: Dan?
Speaker 1: You are everywhere just WATCHINGTY six. I just put it up, Larry.
Speaker 1: It just went up at ten thirty. I appreciate looking
Speaker 1: at my videos the moment they go up. Sports Guru seventeen,
Speaker 1: Good morning everyone. Good morning to you, Sarah apl and Vegas.
Speaker 1: Good morning, baseball card curmudgeon. What's up, fella? It's not
Speaker 1: fellas we go?
Speaker 2: Lauren Ellas is gender neutral. I'll accept the NFL.
Speaker 1: There he is, John Keating. I will see you at
Speaker 1: the Philly Show. I hope, sir. We're gonna have a
Speaker 1: lot of people around, so you better come this time.
Speaker 3: I guess I should explain the background. This is what
Speaker 3: we call a door, kind of like a mid nineteenth
Speaker 3: century French Renaissance door. This is called a bare wall,
Speaker 3: and behind me is just a pile of sheets and blankets,
Speaker 3: because this is the spare bedroom and we have no
Speaker 3: place else to store it. So that explained my background.
Speaker 2: We need to get you a framed photo of the
Speaker 2: public transit to Atlantic City.
Speaker 3: The train, Yes, the Atlantic City train, so you go.
Speaker 1: Uh, I didn't even know there was a train to
Speaker 1: Atlantic City until this moment. I've only ever driven there
Speaker 1: was at the National.
Speaker 3: Were you guys at the National It's literally right next
Speaker 3: door the train stations at the convention center.
Speaker 1: Really well, I came back started.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the next time the Nationals in Atlantic City. You
Speaker 3: don't have to stay in Atlantic City. You can stay
Speaker 3: in Philadelphia. You can stay in Cherry Hill. There's a
Speaker 3: very nice hotel within walking distance of the train station there.
Speaker 1: So red Light has confirmed that he is, in fact
Speaker 1: working in his crane. Be safe, sir, Good morning from
Speaker 1: the Greatest Sport. Wait, John, you're in New York. John,
Speaker 1: if you're in New York, you should you should visit
Speaker 1: with me the Greatest. So we clarified that I don't
Speaker 1: even want to start dan chart. Yeah, I collect it
Speaker 1: twenty four to thirty nine. Good morning, Good morning to you,
Speaker 1: Good morning to Joseph Confluence sports cards. Perfect time and
Speaker 1: just got done mowing. Uh well, I live in New
Speaker 1: York City, so there's no mowing. Good morning to BK
Speaker 1: Sports Card Stories, Phil Pie. We have said hello to
Speaker 1: you already. Cooter lev is here, Hey, sir, how are
Speaker 1: you there? We go see this is the story. It
Speaker 1: would it would detract from us concentrated on from you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, well I think she already said that. Let's see.
Speaker 1: I think we're done with saying good morning to the chat.
Speaker 1: Is everybody here? Yes? Oh, there we go. TJ is here, Tony,
Speaker 1: how are you sir? Yes, well you were lucky one
Speaker 1: of the best guys around. He helped me do an
Speaker 1: interview with Love of the Game auctions on my channel
Speaker 1: that went up on Friday morning. And Tony is, of
Speaker 1: course one of those guys who not only a good guy,
Speaker 1: but also has tons of knowledge, so bringing him in
Speaker 1: to that situation was was advantageous for me and for
Speaker 1: Love of the Game, which closes, by the way, on
Speaker 1: Saturday night, and I am in it officially in it,
Speaker 1: so we'll see what happens. So we have three topics
Speaker 1: to discuss this morning. The first one, I guess you know,
Speaker 1: you can't do a hobby hotline without talking about grating.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna, uh, we're gonna go to this, of.
Speaker 3: Course you bring in the panelists that doesn't get his
Speaker 3: carved well.
Speaker 1: To be fair, I have never actually submitted to Beckett.
Speaker 1: I've submitted to SGC many many times and to PSA
Speaker 1: a few times. But I guess Lauren, you would be
Speaker 1: the person to ask, since neither Chris nor I have
Speaker 1: ever submitted to Beckett? Have you ever submitted to Beckett?
Speaker 2: I don't think we have. I have like a long
Speaker 2: story about, you know, a card that I sent a
Speaker 2: PSA that was a ten got damaged in their ceiling
Speaker 2: process and blah blah blah. So I I prefer Beckett
Speaker 2: because I like that they tell you like how you
Speaker 2: got to that grade, So I I would I really
Speaker 2: my number one is s GC, but I do like Beckett.
Speaker 2: And then PSA is way down at the bottom, so.
Speaker 4: I'm glad he listened to the other Chris. So yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess the big picture here, and and
Speaker 4: you know Phil Pie, who a couple of people came in.
Speaker 1: Where was Phil Pie there? It is okay screwing up something.
Speaker 1: Let's buy our competitors and totally miss it up. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, if anything has come of the
Speaker 1: purchase of Beckett by p s A or Collector's Universe.
Speaker 1: It's that Beckett seems to have gained in the in
Speaker 1: the hobby. Their numbers are up, and I think maybe
Speaker 1: their reputation is up because they would they had they
Speaker 1: went through a spell there, which John John Keating mentions
Speaker 1: here there was a point where Beckett kept screwing Becket grading.
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about doctor Beckett, but Beckett Grading was
Speaker 1: screwing up all sorts of PR stuff, including this new
Speaker 1: logo they released at the Atlantic City, which I you know,
Speaker 1: I was there and saw it, and then they just
Speaker 1: never did anything with it. But at this point I
Speaker 1: kind of feel like they're doing okay, and shutting down
Speaker 1: is the new is the new black so to speak.
Speaker 1: You know, uh, TAG is shut down and PSA shut
Speaker 1: down and who else somebody else did.
Speaker 3: To be Beckett and Tag. Yeah. Yeah, as someone who
Speaker 3: went to the National the lines at the PSA were
Speaker 3: out or ridiculous all week. Same thing with BGS, same
Speaker 3: thing with cgcf GC was a ghost town all week.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I kind of felt kind of felt sorry for you
Speaker 3: because if you wanted to get your cards graded and
Speaker 3: didn't care which card grader did it you can get
Speaker 3: your card. I'm pretty sure graded quickly. At SGC, there
Speaker 3: were no lines. I have a theory as to why
Speaker 3: this is. When I was last on hobby Hotline a
Speaker 3: couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that about two thirds
Speaker 3: of the cards being graded were TCGs and that was
Speaker 3: crowding out a lot of the sports cards being submitted.
Speaker 3: So I have a theory that a lot of sports
Speaker 3: card collectors were waiting for the national to sub their cards.
Speaker 3: Hence the long lines at PSA, the long lines at CGC,
Speaker 3: and the long lines at Beckett. So that's my theory
Speaker 3: about it. And I'm sticking SCC didn't do on site
Speaker 3: grow okay that I did.
Speaker 1: Not know that they should have. I'm sorry, Lauren, go ahead,
Speaker 1: they should have.
Speaker 2: They would have made a killing because p s A
Speaker 2: and Beckett shut down they you know, every like I
Speaker 2: think what said is right. I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people were saving and waiting for the nationals so they
Speaker 2: could get it back quickly. And some people who submitted
Speaker 2: their card they weren't going to get it back like
Speaker 2: they had the expectation they get it back by Sunday,
Speaker 2: and PSA had to tell them like, oh, I think
Speaker 2: it's going to be longer than.
Speaker 5: That, which is a subject in and of itself that
Speaker 5: we didn't we didn't talk about, but I mean it
Speaker 5: was part of the whole grading landscape at the National.
Speaker 1: I have a submissions and it was submitted it mailed
Speaker 1: it out on April sixteenth, three or four days after
Speaker 1: I got back from Strongsville, and it has a lot
Speaker 1: of strong sweel cards in it. And here I am
Speaker 1: the Nationals over the Philly Show's coming up, and I
Speaker 1: still have it back. It went into what it called postgrading,
Speaker 1: which used to be postgrading next day in the mail,
Speaker 1: got your cards back. Past grading now is like a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. So now I'm like, I might not
Speaker 1: even get this back like before the end of August.
Speaker 1: We'll see what happened, but that's that's gonna be like
Speaker 1: four to four and a half months door to door
Speaker 1: for SGC, which frankly is going to kill their business
Speaker 1: because one of the things that they offered as an
Speaker 1: alternative to the other ones is that they were fast.
Speaker 1: They were fast, their customer service was good, their grading
Speaker 1: is good. My last submission with them took three months
Speaker 1: door to door, and the grating was good, and I said,
Speaker 1: I did a whole video, and I said, I don't
Speaker 1: know if I'm still going to grade with them. I'm
Speaker 1: probably gonna do one more, but maybe not. And here
Speaker 1: we are, and they've they've you know, they're pushing me
Speaker 1: in a situation where I don't know, I can't have
Speaker 1: cards out for four and a half months. I'm sixty
Speaker 1: two years old. I don't have four and a half months,
Speaker 1: you know. But anyway, I think your points are well taken, Lauren,
Speaker 1: and I think that ultimately something's got to give because
Speaker 1: if everybody's closed, and you know, even CGC is now
Speaker 1: saying four to six months.
Speaker 2: For return, that which is crazy. If CGC and SGC
Speaker 2: are pushing out three four months, that's that's absurd, like that,
Speaker 2: that's just so wild. They I don't know, I know,
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's a complicated, you know, situation, and and
Speaker 2: you know, like Chris said, a lot of TCG, which
Speaker 2: not a lot of us are familiar with. So, you know,
Speaker 2: for the sports cards to be feeling the impact of
Speaker 2: TDG is interesting but also not our problem. And the
Speaker 2: trading companies have to come together and figure it out.
Speaker 2: They have to because we have certain expectations and for
Speaker 2: SGC to take you, you know, from April to now
Speaker 2: you still don't have your cards. That's wild for them.
Speaker 2: That is the thing that they are best known for.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean they're all kind of in the
Speaker 2: same boat, which is, you know, counterintuitive when you have options.
Speaker 2: You know, that's kind of not how this is supposed
Speaker 2: to work.
Speaker 1: So so John says, here, buy your cards already graded.
Speaker 1: That's one solution. The other solution is magnacro.
Speaker 3: But I think that I really.
Speaker 1: Do all stack of them, because that's what I've been
Speaker 1: doing lately for four and a half months. I didn't
Speaker 1: stop buying cards, but I stopped grading cards, and I
Speaker 1: put them in my one touches and they look perfectly fine,
Speaker 1: some of them, you know. And the other thing, and
Speaker 1: I did a thing, I did a thing on another
Speaker 1: show that I do where I said, the freedom not
Speaker 1: to grade is something that I'm feeling, you know, particularly
Speaker 1: cheerful about that. I don't feel like I have to
Speaker 1: grade every card now. And you know, a card comes
Speaker 1: in and I know it's you know, it's an old
Speaker 1: I do a lot of vintage. I know a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of my cards are ones or ones
Speaker 1: and a half, one and a half or whatever. So
Speaker 1: I will look at the card, say this is going
Speaker 1: to be one. Why do I need sgcated on me?
Speaker 1: It's one, britt a magpro. I don't have to wait
Speaker 1: four and a half months. I put it up on
Speaker 1: the wall or whatever, and there we go. So I
Speaker 1: think not grading or buying cards that are already graded
Speaker 1: are probably the solutions that they're pushing us into with this.
Speaker 3: And another solution is I think collectors need to realize
Speaker 3: that not every card needs to be graded exactly. Not
Speaker 3: every twenty twenty six tops based rookie needs to go
Speaker 3: on a slab, right, And unless you're getting like a
Speaker 3: Gemmin ten or even a black Label ten, the amount
Speaker 3: you pay to get that card graded, the return on
Speaker 3: that is probably at best breaking. So I think a
Speaker 3: lot of folks need to learn that the hard are
Speaker 3: going to learn that the hard way.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I supposed there for a second freedom not to
Speaker 1: grade yet. So the problem, of course is that you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not in the modern hobby, and I know a
Speaker 1: lot of the modern hobby is basically run by you know,
Speaker 1: grading cards, increasing value, selling the cards. That whole flipping
Speaker 1: mentality is something that I'm sort of foreign too, and
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's changing that landscape, and I wonder,
Speaker 1: I mean, is that something that is really going to
Speaker 1: change the way that the modern hobby acts?
Speaker 3: Thoughts it should? I don't know if there's enough? Well,
Speaker 3: what was it? The PT Barnum said, there's one. I'm
Speaker 3: born every minute. As long as there are people who
Speaker 3: think that they're smarter than they already than they actually are,
Speaker 3: and think that they can make money in this hobby
Speaker 3: by flipping cards, there's always going to be a demand
Speaker 3: for services like grading, So.
Speaker 2: True, I think. I mean for me, I the only
Speaker 2: time I grade is because, like if I'm submitting something
Speaker 2: for grading, which is very rare, does not happen very often.
Speaker 2: It's because I want my cards to be secure. I'm
Speaker 2: a big cocoa golf collector and SGC was fast and
Speaker 2: they're in South Florida, I believe, so like they the
Speaker 2: cards would come back to me quickly. It's doac nicely.
Speaker 2: So like my cocoa collection is mostly from what I've
Speaker 2: pulled or what I've acquired raw SGC, and it's because
Speaker 2: I am keeping those and I like them to be
Speaker 2: protected neat whatever. But yeah, I think I think people
Speaker 2: do have to kind of recognize, like like it's it
Speaker 2: is an option, it's not a necessity. And if you're flipping,
Speaker 2: then yeah, usually you know, in order to make that
Speaker 2: extra few dollars, you know, you need the nine over
Speaker 2: an eight or ten over a nine. But I think
Speaker 2: the only like I think the real two reasons that
Speaker 2: people should grade is a either to protect their card
Speaker 2: because they want it to be you know, kept safe,
Speaker 2: or be they need to verify that their card is
Speaker 2: real and legitimate. And I think that, like Chris said,
Speaker 2: just you know, throwing in a base rookie of somebody
Speaker 2: just because you know people are talking about it or whatever.
Speaker 2: I don't think that that's a sustainable way obviously a
Speaker 2: sustainable way to grade. So I think people, I mean,
Speaker 2: and I'm not trying to put it back on collectors.
Speaker 2: I definitely think the companies have to figure stuff out.
Speaker 2: This is their service and they're not providing it properly.
Speaker 2: But I do think collectors need to be a little
Speaker 2: more discerning about what they want graded and how they
Speaker 2: want it graded, because also PSA grades they don't I
Speaker 2: don't want to go on a PSA rant but like
Speaker 2: they don't tell you why it gets that grade, and
Speaker 2: they also will charge you based on their perceived value
Speaker 2: of that card. And you know, you need to be
Speaker 2: more discerning as a collector if that is relevant to
Speaker 2: you and your hobby experience.
Speaker 1: So all one hundred percent tro and I think you know,
Speaker 1: I will accept some you know, some guilt for sending
Speaker 1: cards in that probably shouldn't have been graded, but a
Speaker 1: lot of it was I wanted them to be authentic.
Speaker 1: I wanted them to display and wanted them to be
Speaker 1: you know, and like I said, everything I collect, pretty
Speaker 1: much everything I collect is victied. Most of what I
Speaker 1: collect these days is pre war. And so you know,
Speaker 1: authenticity is something that maybe five ten years ago I
Speaker 1: didn't really I wasn't comfortable in my own determinations of that,
Speaker 1: But now I am, so I feel pretty good that Chris,
Speaker 1: what happened to the apartment? You had a beautiful piano there.
Speaker 3: I moved just split second.
Speaker 1: To your point, Lauren, it makes no sense to grade
Speaker 1: something where you're not adding any value. I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, that's part of the reason I'm using these
Speaker 1: this this you know PSA one, SGC one or in
Speaker 1: a mag the card is worth and so why spend
Speaker 1: the extra fifteen or twenty bucks? And we wad four anyway,
Speaker 1: So we did have a topic number two, which is
Speaker 1: depressing his Heck, I'm gonna play a video and the
Speaker 1: video starts about thirty seconds in to set the stage here.
Speaker 1: It is a it's a video of a theft, and
Speaker 1: it's a theft of something I believe to be about
Speaker 1: a ten thousand dollars card. The gentleman who you'll see
Speaker 1: in a white hat and a white shirt is apparently
Speaker 1: the dealer. He's facing in a certain direction doing something,
Speaker 1: and behind him there is an older man and a
Speaker 1: younger who's probably the boy's probably ten or twelve years old.
Speaker 1: The man might be his father, his grandfather, or nobody.
Speaker 1: He could be, you know, just some guy who you know,
Speaker 1: needed a kid to distract or whatever. But I'll play
Speaker 1: it from about thirty seconds and I think it deserves
Speaker 1: some commentary. That's about all we need to see, So
Speaker 1: if you missed it, there there's a conversation between the
Speaker 1: boy and the man. The man opens up the lid
Speaker 1: of the case, reaches in, grabs the card, gives it
Speaker 1: to the kid. They have a little conversation for about
Speaker 1: three or four seconds, and then they leave. The dealer,
Speaker 1: who I believe the dealer is. The gentleman in the white,
Speaker 1: white hat and white shirt is facing in the other
Speaker 1: direction of the entire time. And so my original thought
Speaker 1: of this is how freaking sad this is because there's
Speaker 1: a kid there who's this experienced. You know, there are videos,
Speaker 1: there are pictures, they're close ups. Eventually law enforcement is
Speaker 1: going to find this gentleman and take action against him,
Speaker 1: and this kid is going to have to deal with
Speaker 1: this for the rest of his life. And to me,
Speaker 1: that's extraordinarily sad. But from a hobby perspective, it's a
Speaker 1: couple of things. One is, some of us said this
Speaker 1: before the national there's a lot of money going around.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people and eyewitnessed thefts, not didn't
Speaker 1: witness thefts last year, but had some connection with some
Speaker 1: dealers that I knew that had been that had been victimized.
Speaker 1: And so theft was bad last year, it was worse
Speaker 1: this year. And this is like the poster childs of theft.
Speaker 1: And I have some thoughts, but I want to go
Speaker 1: to you guys first, Lauren, what's your like, your initial
Speaker 1: reaction and some of your thoughts on on what this
Speaker 1: is all about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when I when I first saw the video, my
Speaker 2: my stomach sank because it's it's sad and it's frustrating,
Speaker 2: and we were set up as dealers at the National
Speaker 2: and unfortunately that's what's on our mind the whole time.
Speaker 2: I the only time I stepped away from our table
Speaker 2: was when I was on the Hobby Hotline panel and
Speaker 2: I set alarms. I couldn't get caught in a conversation.
Speaker 2: I did just have to kind of like wave goodbye
Speaker 2: and dip. I couldn't be gone for too long because
Speaker 2: this is the concern, and it's it's it's there's just
Speaker 2: so many things. I know a lot of people are
Speaker 2: feeling a lot of things, but it's it's mostly just
Speaker 2: disappointing because you you don't want to look at everybody
Speaker 2: who walks up to your table as a threat, and
Speaker 2: unfortunately you do because you just don't know what people's
Speaker 2: intentions are. And I am constantly just scanning back and forth.
Speaker 2: And they were so slick about it. He just lifted
Speaker 2: it up, slightly, slid it out, looked at it like
Speaker 2: he was pretending to examine it and then handed it
Speaker 2: to the kid like the kid was going to examine it,
Speaker 2: and then they just slid it in their bag, and
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's unfortunate. And I believe it was upstairs.
Speaker 2: So like the upstairs space is an expansion of the
Speaker 2: National and the growth of the National. And you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know who the dealer was. I don't know
Speaker 2: those details, but like that might have been somebody who
Speaker 2: felt very fortunate to get a table at the National.
Speaker 2: It might have been their first year, it might this
Speaker 2: is only our second year setting up in National. We
Speaker 2: feel very grateful that we have that opportunity, and you know,
Speaker 2: it is overwhelming and unfortunately, you know, they I don't
Speaker 2: want to blame the dealer because obviously it's not their fault.
Speaker 2: Somebody stole from them, but there's so many things that
Speaker 2: you have to balance as a dealer at the National,
Speaker 2: and unfortunately, not trusting the people around you is in
Speaker 2: the top five. So it's sad because it also, you know,
Speaker 2: it reinforces that what I'm doing and what Brian is
Speaker 2: doing at the table is necessary. You know. Unfortunately, you know,
Speaker 2: we make great conversation with people. We met a lot
Speaker 2: We met so many great people and we had so
Speaker 2: many great conversations, but it just takes that one person
Speaker 2: that betrays your trust that you know will impact how
Speaker 2: you move forward. So it's it's just hurtening. I think.
Speaker 2: I think the good thing is that most people agree
Speaker 2: that's a terrible thing to do and a gross thing
Speaker 2: to do. And the fact that it spans, you know,
Speaker 2: two to three generations based on you know, the age
Speaker 2: of the older man and the child, you know, I
Speaker 2: think that's very discouraging. But I think people recognizing, you
Speaker 2: know how vast and you know how it could be anyone,
Speaker 2: and I don't know, it's it's a lot. I would
Speaker 2: like to hear what you guys think also is as
Speaker 2: you know, vintage collectors and just people who love the hobbyh.
Speaker 3: Chris, I want a second what Lauren said about not
Speaker 3: wanting to blame the dealer or the victim.
Speaker 4: Here, Yeah, but.
Speaker 3: You gotta have some kind of situational awareness here. I mean,
Speaker 3: you got to lock up your display cases if they're not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're going to turn your back, you have
Speaker 2: to lock your case.
Speaker 3: You have to lock your stuff up. Second of all,
Speaker 3: how stupid do you have to be to steal something
Speaker 3: at the National Everybody everybody has one of these in
Speaker 3: their pocket. You have all of these content creators with
Speaker 3: their boom mics and camera crews filming everything. Just about
Speaker 3: every dealer should have some kind of security camera, either
Speaker 3: their own security system or in this case, I guess
Speaker 3: this video was taken from the Stevensenter owned Securities. You
Speaker 3: have have dozens of rent to cops all over the floor,
Speaker 3: some of them may be taking a nap granted, uh
Speaker 3: and you have some real cops around. What makes you
Speaker 3: think that you're gonna be able to get away with it?
Speaker 3: To me, we we know who these people are. Now,
Speaker 3: if these people show up at another card show, especially
Speaker 3: especially now as more and more facial recognition cameras are
Speaker 3: coming online in public places, unless you were like a
Speaker 3: mask for a disguise, you're gonna get caught somehow. So
Speaker 3: stealing is bad. Okay, So we need Curtis Sliwa and
Speaker 3: the uh cels. You need like Bobby Angels, just a
Speaker 3: bunch of jack dudes and flight jackets and berets just
Speaker 3: roaming the the aisles at the National. Next, so vigilanti justice.
Speaker 1: Yes, it was twenty twenty for the National, there was
Speaker 1: that coordinated effort to steal millions of dollars of cards
Speaker 1: from the dealer named She. So that happened. What happened
Speaker 1: after that? Because that happened I guess right before the National,
Speaker 1: It happened at the Dallas show. That was right before
Speaker 1: the Cleveland National. What happened after that was there was
Speaker 1: a there was a concerted effort by dealers to do
Speaker 1: what all of you people have suggested Lauren, Chris and
Speaker 1: the chat lock your cases. You have to lock your cases.
Speaker 1: And this you know. I go to dealers, they know me.
Speaker 1: They unlocked their cases, they handed me the card. They're
Speaker 1: standing there looking and then I handed back to them
Speaker 1: and they and they locked their case again. And a
Speaker 1: lot of the dealers that I know this is this
Speaker 1: is what they do. And Lauren, you know you you
Speaker 1: said something. The fact that you and Brian are there together,
Speaker 1: working together is helpful not only just for your you know,
Speaker 1: to work in a normal way, but protecting you against theft.
Speaker 1: And I think TJ. Tony, who said in the chat
Speaker 1: just now, the National has to be better about giving
Speaker 1: out dealer badges so that people can can watch for
Speaker 1: each other. And you know, if it's a husband and
Speaker 1: wife team, of course that they're going to get the badges.
Speaker 1: But you've got to have somebody else. And I remember
Speaker 1: after the Dallas theft, came to the National in Cleveland
Speaker 1: and Bill Chapple, who was a renowned fantastic vintage dealer,
Speaker 1: wasn't alone he usually works alone. He had like three
Speaker 1: other guys with him, And I'm like, this is smart.
Speaker 1: You have you have a He had like a you know,
Speaker 1: a semi rectangle of multiple cases, and he had one
Speaker 1: guy here, one guy here, and him here, And that,
Speaker 1: to me is the best way to prevent this lock
Speaker 1: your cases, have more eyes on it, to never turn
Speaker 1: your back when you have a ten thousand dollars card
Speaker 1: in an open case. Again, I don't want to blame
Speaker 1: the victim, but we have to as a hobby and
Speaker 1: as dealers, and I do deal at local shows, and
Speaker 1: I know what it's like to be on the lookout
Speaker 1: for it. We have to be vigilant about looking out
Speaker 1: for this stuff. Cameras. Yes, that's another thing that came
Speaker 1: about a little bit more often after the big theft
Speaker 1: in Dallas is that that now there are cameras on tables.
Speaker 1: People have their little cameras. What do they cost twenty
Speaker 1: to thirty bucks? You know, it's like it's worth it's
Speaker 1: worth the investment. I know that there has been a
Speaker 1: lot of theft in the Pokemon world, and those dealers
Speaker 1: tend to have more cameras, So I think that that's
Speaker 1: one of those things that maybe we learned from them,
Speaker 1: is that cameras lock your cases, extra eyes, vigilance, all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: And another thing too, is that this took place in
Speaker 3: that upper level of the National where I'm assuming that
Speaker 3: that's where they're putting all of the new dealers. That
Speaker 3: that was the kind of the vibe that I got.
Speaker 3: You had. You had a lot of the international guys
Speaker 3: the which I thought was pretty neat, a lot of
Speaker 3: Bobby deal from Europe, but a lot of newer dealers
Speaker 3: that may not have ever set up at a national
Speaker 3: before that may not have the situational awareness to lock
Speaker 3: up their cards constantly. So very expensive lure lesson learned
Speaker 3: for one.
Speaker 1: Dealer, And you know, again, I think that it's one
Speaker 1: of those things that it should be well, thank you,
Speaker 1: it's one of those things that should be a learning
Speaker 1: lesson like that, like the Dallas thing was a learning lesson,
Speaker 1: but Dallas was, you know, more than two years ago
Speaker 1: now and more dealers come in, there's more people in
Speaker 1: the space and people forget. But we'll see. I'd like
Speaker 1: for this to be a lesson. And you know, Chris,
Speaker 1: your point is, did this guy realistically expect to get
Speaker 1: away with this? I don't know if he's been arrested yet.
Speaker 1: He did get away with it, but yeah, you're gonna
Speaker 1: be on.
Speaker 3: Camera or the Scooby Doo gang is on the case. Yeah,
Speaker 3: those meddling kids will get it.
Speaker 1: They'll bring him to justice, they'll pull the mask off
Speaker 1: of him. It's it's Michael Rubin. That's a transition for
Speaker 1: our next topic. But the story is that, Chrissy, you
Speaker 1: brought this up. This guy didn't expect to get away
Speaker 1: with this, but the Dallas guy's got away with and
Speaker 1: I think that where they were a lot more coordinated.
Speaker 1: They were able to get the facial recognition on those guys,
Speaker 1: but they haven't been able to find that find them.
Speaker 3: So you know, they haven't shown up to a card
Speaker 3: show since this. Well, yeah, they probably aren't even in
Speaker 3: the country. But there's different levels of theft. Obviously, a
Speaker 3: million dollar theft versus a one single card sort of.
Speaker 3: I don't know if the guy thought this through or whatever,
Speaker 3: but you know he didn't. It didn't look like a planned,
Speaker 3: uh you know, organized larceny as opposed to this guy
Speaker 3: just kind of reaching it and taking it out a
Speaker 3: little different but so less thought involved, less planning involved,
Speaker 3: and less thought of the concept of getting caught. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, we'll see what happens. But it's sad, but
Speaker 3: it's a lesson and it should be used as I did.
Speaker 1: A TEJ did say. Tony said that you can't even
Speaker 1: go to CBS and buy deodorant anymore without without getting
Speaker 1: into a law case. And I thought, well, how many
Speaker 1: of the people at the National were actually buying deodorant?
Speaker 2: That's the big They probably thought about it, and then
Speaker 2: they had that barrier and they're like, you know what,
Speaker 2: this is.
Speaker 3: A sign someone I forget who I might have been
Speaker 3: a breaker. They were giving away like tiny card ladder
Speaker 3: sticks of deodorant, which I thought, card ladder, Yeah that's
Speaker 3: who it was.
Speaker 1: Dan, Good morning, sir. I don't know. I mean I
Speaker 1: think we will, right, we should. They would want it
Speaker 1: to be, you know, in a theft like this where
Speaker 1: it's now gotten a lot of publicity. You want it
Speaker 1: to be known that the guy was caught. You want
Speaker 1: it to be like a deterrent to other people saying, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go in and open a case and
Speaker 1: grab a car and I'll be fine. No, you won't
Speaker 1: be fine. Your picture will be all over the internet.
Speaker 1: People will talk about you on hobby hotline and and
Speaker 1: you will eventually go to jail. It is, by the way,
Speaker 1: a grand larceny. Well yeah, and not value.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not to say get like too lost in the weeds,
Speaker 2: but like if they traveled there and they took this,
Speaker 2: you know, they're out of state and they traveled with it,
Speaker 2: like like what you know, and it's a perceived price,
Speaker 2: but like you know, like based on the value, like
Speaker 2: you know, like there's so many different levels to it
Speaker 2: that we need to know, you know. I mean, I'm nosy,
Speaker 2: I will admit it. I'm very nosy, and I like
Speaker 2: to know information. But I think it's important that we
Speaker 2: know like what who it is, and what the steaks are,
Speaker 2: what what will happen if you do this? You know,
Speaker 2: I think it's important that the consequences are known. So
Speaker 2: like we don't need to tarn feather them and like
Speaker 2: you know, the town square, but we need to know,
Speaker 2: like what is being done to say you cannot do this,
Speaker 2: we will not tolerate this, and you know, these are
Speaker 2: the consequences that are very clearly laid out.
Speaker 3: So I give them the stocks. Sure, yeah for sort
Speaker 3: of tarn feathering.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, it's let's messy and you know.
Speaker 3: Cheaper feathering, all right.
Speaker 1: Okay, so John says, no one cares, No one cares
Speaker 1: about what I didn't get to the bottom here.
Speaker 3: Okay, no one cares about Kurds. Okay, I think we
Speaker 3: need that.
Speaker 1: I don't agree with you, John, I think it's very important.
Speaker 1: Take that, mister Keating. All right, So we do have
Speaker 1: another topic. I'm gonna go back to the video here.
Speaker 1: Our topic is Michael Rubin and his his second in
Speaker 1: charge guy who is named Mayhan, being interviewed by sports
Speaker 1: card Nonsense Mike Geo and his partner whose name I forget, Jess.
Speaker 1: There you go. And so they they did an interview.
Speaker 1: Sports Car Nonsense had a booth upstairs at the National
Speaker 1: They were given some sort of media like title, and
Speaker 1: so they got to interview Michael Rubin and it was
Speaker 1: I have thoughts, but we'll splay some video.
Speaker 6: We think the hobby shops are and will continue to
Speaker 6: be the fabric of this hobby and we.
Speaker 7: But we want them to do it the right way
Speaker 7: and then breakers. Look, we think breaking is a good thing, right.
Speaker 7: It allows people accessible price points. It allows people to
Speaker 7: select the team that they wanted, the character that they want,
Speaker 7: right without having to buy the whole box. It's really
Speaker 7: think about it as a group buying format. That's really
Speaker 7: what it is in a syndicated format. And what people
Speaker 7: I think lose sight of is it's not the breaker
Speaker 7: that gets the car. There's a collector at the other
Speaker 7: end of that. Right, the breaker opens it on camera
Speaker 7: over and says, oh, the breaker pulled the card.
Speaker 1: No, no, there's a collector that got the car.
Speaker 6: So we don't say oh, or breakers better than hobby
Speaker 6: shops or Vice. But we think there are so many
Speaker 6: great hobby shops out there that drive the collector experience.
Speaker 6: We think there's so many great breakers that drive the
Speaker 6: collector experience, and we want to support everything that drives
Speaker 6: the collectors.
Speaker 1: Well, there's so much more I need to So if
Speaker 1: I were if I were really I should do like
Speaker 1: a Carlos style breakdown of this video, because there are
Speaker 1: so many things about this video and I watched it
Speaker 1: last night and I laughed at times and I yelled
Speaker 1: at times. But the reality is, and I'll let you
Speaker 1: go Chris in a second, the reality is they're selling
Speaker 1: us a loadable and it's just marketing, marketing, marketing, and
Speaker 1: this whole concept that they care about the customer and
Speaker 1: they care about the card shops is not But anyway, Chris,
Speaker 1: go ahead, I'm.
Speaker 3: Sorry, just just so we're on the same page. Which
Speaker 3: one was Beavis and which one was bought head again?
Speaker 3: All right? In all seriousness, remember when breaking first became
Speaker 3: a thing about like maybe fifteen years ago. The way
Speaker 3: I remember breaking starting is that it was really it
Speaker 3: was really among team and individual player collectors. These were
Speaker 3: guys that didn't want to pay two hundred dollars for
Speaker 3: a pack of Triple three and not get anybody, not
Speaker 3: get their guy, or not get their team. So they
Speaker 3: got together through the magic of the Internet and the
Speaker 3: magic of the free market. Some guy, dude, did we
Speaker 3: ever even find out who invented the group break? I
Speaker 3: don't know. I don't care. Some guy said, I will
Speaker 3: buy a case of this. All I want is my
Speaker 3: team and the other twenty one ninety teams. I'll just
Speaker 3: sell for one thirtieth of the price of this case,
Speaker 3: and at the end, I'll just send you the cards
Speaker 3: of your And that worked for a while, and then,
Speaker 3: really about ten years ago you started seeing this other
Speaker 3: element to group it becoming this cottage industry where it's
Speaker 3: not just about team set collecting or individual player collecting.
Speaker 3: It really became almost a form of gambling. You have
Speaker 3: a lot of guys that get into group breaks that
Speaker 3: really aren't interested in the team that they get. They
Speaker 3: just hope that they get a valuable card more than
Speaker 3: their return on their investment. I mean, mayhean can say
Speaker 3: whatever he wants about group breaking. That's what it is now.
Speaker 3: It is essentially a form of gambling. And I'm hearing
Speaker 3: a lot of stories in the mainstream media about group breaking,
Speaker 3: And there are a lot of folks out there that
Speaker 3: want this regulated as if it were gambling, and I
Speaker 3: don't blame them. So, yeah, group breaking is kind of
Speaker 3: evolved into something that I don't think it's original creators anticipated.
Speaker 3: So and the thing is too, is that the manufacturers
Speaker 3: have some are kind of encouraging this with the way
Speaker 3: these products nowadays are structured. You take a typical top
Speaker 3: baseball release, this isn't really these products aren't really even
Speaker 3: meant to be collected anymore. They're really meant to be broken.
Speaker 3: This is why we have seventy eight different parallels of
Speaker 3: each card. Did collectors want seventy eight different versions of
Speaker 3: the same card? No, But it allows some dumb group
Speaker 3: breaker on a group on a live stream to scream
Speaker 3: like a banshee when he pulls one same thing. With
Speaker 3: a lot of these multi case hit inserts, how the
Speaker 3: heck are you supposed to collect something a ten card
Speaker 3: in or it's set that's seated at the rate of
Speaker 3: like one in every fifty sixty seventy cases, You can't.
Speaker 3: So who is this really for? Again, it's to provide
Speaker 3: value for breaker. So when I see these guys hyping
Speaker 3: up break, Oh, it's a great way for team set
Speaker 3: calls builder, just get the guys they want. Yeah, it is,
Speaker 3: but that's not what it really isn't.
Speaker 1: Well, So, Lauren, I know you have thoughts. We've thoughts
Speaker 1: a little bit about this. I have a whole thing
Speaker 1: that I've written down, but I don't want to get
Speaker 1: into that yet. I want you to you to speak.
Speaker 2: I yeah, I just I have so many thoughts. I know,
Speaker 2: I know one thing that we kind of I've still
Speaker 2: kind of been processing. But somebody said Mad City Bruce said,
Speaker 2: can we pay in Fanatics cash to join a break?
Speaker 2: And they're really pushing the Fanatics cash thing. There was
Speaker 2: like a staged protest about O fiend stuff. They had shirts,
Speaker 2: they had signs, they had spray painted the sidewalk like
Speaker 2: it was like some kind of like you know, gorilla
Speaker 2: grassroots movement, and it was basically like if you sell
Speaker 2: on our platform, you can have Fanatics cash and then
Speaker 2: you can put it towards whatever you want on Fanatics
Speaker 2: and in including breaks because they have Fanatics Live. And
Speaker 2: I'm I'm still kind of processing that. I don't have
Speaker 2: like a fully baked idea of like what exactly doesn't
Speaker 2: sit right with me on that, but it it doesn't
Speaker 2: and I think, you know, I know, like for Brian,
Speaker 2: he actually he's been a collector since he was a
Speaker 2: little kid and very pretty pretty consistently in you know,
Speaker 2: the hobby and on the message boards and stuff, and
Speaker 2: he and actually Alex Tresler Army ATC he used to
Speaker 2: buy into his breaks when Army. When Alex was breaking
Speaker 2: like overseas, like you know, like when he was like
Speaker 2: stationed in Afghanistan, I think, yeah yeah, and like you
Speaker 2: know he would break it. He'd post it on YouTube
Speaker 2: and you'd go yeah yeah, and like like Brian, one
Speaker 2: night we went through a bunch of he was like,
Speaker 2: because he can remember, he's got like a memory, like
Speaker 2: a safe and he was like, I remember this particular break.
Speaker 2: It was this product with this person. And we went
Speaker 2: through and we watched YouTube videos from like fifteen almost
Speaker 2: twenty years ago of breaks that he was a part of,
Speaker 2: and you know, he remembers the cards and then he
Speaker 2: was able to like look up the cards to like,
Speaker 2: you know, the the provenance of those cards, and you
Speaker 2: know that that it's a it's an interesting history because
Speaker 2: it's it does feel like breaking just came out of
Speaker 2: nowhere and started on whatnot and it's basically just like gambling,
Speaker 2: and it's I don't know, I think trying to think
Speaker 2: of like how to say this like as as like
Speaker 2: intelligently as possible. I think fanatics is able to turn
Speaker 2: you know, the head of the hobby because they are
Speaker 2: the neck because they have their hands so deep in
Speaker 2: everything and they they can I agree with you guys
Speaker 2: that it was marketing. They went up there with talking points.
Speaker 2: I know somebody said, like Rubens sitting there slouching, like yeah,
Speaker 2: he's a billionaire, but he's trying to be like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm just a cool sports guy like you guys, you
Speaker 2: know exactly, and you know, like and then Mike Mayhan
Speaker 2: is sitting there and he's like got a Duke jersey on,
Speaker 2: but he's kind of sitting there like a stiff boardroom guy.
Speaker 2: Like it's a weird juxtaposition. And like I think, you know,
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people said, like they're catering
Speaker 2: more towards like like the youth. You know, people love
Speaker 2: they love Ruben because he has like an if you're
Speaker 2: like a seven year old kid who loves sports, he
Speaker 2: has like an interesting life because you're like he's partying
Speaker 2: in the Amptons with Karl Anthony Towns and like you know,
Speaker 2: and Tom Brady's on speed dial, like and it's it's
Speaker 2: it's like a lifestyle sale kind of thing, and it's
Speaker 2: a marketing thing. And some of us are a little
Speaker 2: more you know, discerning and maybe curmudgeony, and we're like
Speaker 2: not into it. We're not buying that side of it.
Speaker 2: We just want to collect cards and like connect with people.
Speaker 2: And it's it's I think we all need to listen
Speaker 2: when they're speaking to us and have the wherewithal to
Speaker 2: know they're feeding you aligne like they can say like, no,
Speaker 2: we we don't. You know, we don't want, you know,
Speaker 2: card shops to suffer if it's not if it's not
Speaker 2: impacting your bottom line in a positive way. You don't
Speaker 2: care if my local card shop is suffering or not,
Speaker 2: if they're getting out pations or not. You know, like
Speaker 2: it's it's it's disingenuous, and I think that I think
Speaker 2: we do need to be a little bit more critical
Speaker 2: of them when we see these things that are basically
Speaker 2: flying in the face of what we know. What we
Speaker 2: know the reality is so But I would Dan, I
Speaker 2: would really like to hear what you have to say.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure you get a lot of thought into it,
Speaker 2: and I'm I'm very interested.
Speaker 3: Well, you know.
Speaker 1: How much time we have left take it up. I
Speaker 1: would encourage anybody you know who hasn't watched this interview
Speaker 1: to go watch it. It's on Sportscard nonsense. I don't
Speaker 1: subscribe to them. I don't like them. I don't like
Speaker 1: what they do. The way that they approached this interview
Speaker 1: was to just b yes men, and there's no no
Speaker 1: follow up questions. They ask some hard questions, but they're
Speaker 1: all just really just softballs, and it's a terrible interview
Speaker 1: from an interviewing perspective. But that being said, whatever, the
Speaker 1: point here is that collectors. I'm sorry Fanatics was at
Speaker 1: the National spending almost all their time talking in this
Speaker 1: interview about fanatics Fest, which I thought was really disrespectful.
Speaker 1: The other thing is that they kept saying what they're working.
Speaker 1: They're obsessive in their work to make the experience better
Speaker 1: for collectors. They're obsessive working for collectors. And I was
Speaker 1: laughing at this because I'm thinking to myself, these guys
Speaker 1: don't give a rat's ass about collectors. They want they
Speaker 1: Their their main thing is to grow their company, and
Speaker 1: the bottom line is that is what they're obsessive about.
Speaker 1: And there was a point where they were talking about
Speaker 1: hobby shops and they've got this description of hobby shops
Speaker 1: as tier one and the only hobby shops that Michael
Speaker 1: Rubin could name were Burbank, who is It's a whole
Speaker 1: different story. I'm a Burbank fan. I'm a fan of
Speaker 1: the what they're doing, but they're the most They're the biggest,
Speaker 1: you know, card shop in the world, or at least
Speaker 1: in the United States. He also talked about cards HQ,
Speaker 1: and he talked about Tom Brady, So he had Burbank
Speaker 1: biggest card show and card shop in the country, Tom
Speaker 1: Brady and cards HQ, which is expanding now and they're
Speaker 1: tied in with Fanatics anyway, So he couldn't name any
Speaker 1: of the card shops, but what he did say was
Speaker 1: that he wanted to grow the card shops. He wanted
Speaker 1: them to be better and if you can't be there's
Speaker 1: a point where he said that if you can't be better,
Speaker 1: then get out or move or get out of the way.
Speaker 1: And I thought to myself, he just told all these
Speaker 1: small hobby shops that like, if you don't do it,
Speaker 1: it's our way or the highway. And I've said this
Speaker 1: before on other channels, is that the way they are
Speaker 1: manipulating hobby shops is through allocation and somebody who actually
Speaker 1: owns a hobby shops that were okay with the allocation,
Speaker 1: except it's getting worse. Yeah, it's gonna keep getting warm.
Speaker 1: And essentially what they're gonna do is put all these
Speaker 1: corporate shops tier one and the rest of them are
Speaker 1: out the door, and I think hobby shops, Mom pop
Speaker 1: hobby shops are are are on the way out the door.
Speaker 1: The other thing is this concept of breakers. I mean
Speaker 1: that that whole thing that I played was complete, not
Speaker 1: The collector's experience is not improved by breaking. It was
Speaker 1: in the old days. What Chris was describing was that
Speaker 1: guys getting together and putting them pulling their money together
Speaker 1: and then getting the best stuff that they wanted out
Speaker 1: of a product that they all couldn't afford to buy intiviility.
Speaker 1: That's the best way that breaker, that breaking was, But
Speaker 1: it's not that way anymore. It's a profit making business
Speaker 1: used to fleece ninety five percent of the people who
Speaker 1: buy into it because everybody except the one guy who
Speaker 1: gets to hit is a loser. So it's all losers
Speaker 1: and people have been losing money like crazy. The stories
Speaker 1: all the time about a guy who just spent forty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in like two months to break and then
Speaker 1: lost all of his money and now like his wife
Speaker 1: is moving out on him, or like he's now defaulting
Speaker 1: on his mortgage or whatever that stuff is happening. People's
Speaker 1: lives are being ruined by this, and these guys don't
Speaker 1: give a rats ass. So one of the other things
Speaker 1: they talked about was getting rid of distributors, the middleman.
Speaker 1: They wanted to get rid of the middleman because they said,
Speaker 1: we are we distribute directly to hobby shops. And I
Speaker 1: thought to myself, you know what you just did. You
Speaker 1: just told us your ultimate plan is to basically be
Speaker 1: able to control the hobby and not have other people
Speaker 1: have any power at all. But you know what, who
Speaker 1: you know who distributors are the worst kind of distributors
Speaker 1: are breakers. They kept saying, we got rid of distributors,
Speaker 1: but that now we have breakers and breakers are distributors
Speaker 1: on speed. So lots to talk about. Sorry, I'm just
Speaker 1: ranting that house.
Speaker 2: No, I love it. I love it you're making.
Speaker 1: But but TJ said this in the in the in
Speaker 1: the the the chat, and this is the thought that
Speaker 1: I had last night. We're on where with Simpatico with
Speaker 1: our thoughts on this. Uh, the hobby is doomed if
Speaker 1: we let these guys take it on. The modern hobby
Speaker 1: is if this is the way, we're gonna let it happen.
Speaker 1: And they want to control everything. They want to control
Speaker 1: card shops, they want to control distributing, they want to
Speaker 1: control allocation. They want to control your experience, what cards
Speaker 1: you get, you know. And one thing that never got
Speaker 1: talked about, you know, sports card nonsense is tough questions. Uh,
Speaker 1: the prices, the prices of boxes. There there's no ROI anymore.
Speaker 1: Every time you buy a box, you're losing money if
Speaker 1: you open it, and so you know, that's that's the
Speaker 1: bottom line here is that Fanatics is growing the hobby. Now.
Speaker 1: They're growing their own company three x or five x
Speaker 1: per ten x and it's basically taking over the hobby.
Speaker 1: I am fortunate that they don't. They don't. They don't
Speaker 1: have much control over my hobby. But you know, my
Speaker 1: hobby is is it pre war vintage cards. But hey,
Speaker 1: hobby shops, If the mom and pop hobby shops go
Speaker 1: away and everything becomes shiny, then that does affect my hobby.
Speaker 1: And if card shows Fanatics fest they talked all about
Speaker 1: Fanatics fest. I think they want to take over. I
Speaker 1: think they want to take over the National and we'll
Speaker 1: see what happens. That could affect my hobby. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I just ranted for like five and a half minutes.
Speaker 3: So sorry, guys, No that.
Speaker 2: Was that was honestly.
Speaker 3: You could keep going, great, keep going, man.
Speaker 1: I lost all the there's tons of commons, so.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I just they were really lighting it up. I
Speaker 2: couldn't keep track.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the marketing moments, Yeah, I mean that. You know.
Speaker 1: The other thing is, you know, to say what he said,
Speaker 1: which was, you know, either get better or get out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, mom and pop don't need to make a
Speaker 1: gazillion dollars. They don't need to go to Hampton's. I
Speaker 1: just want to make a living. And sometimes some of
Speaker 1: the people I know, people who own card shops, it's
Speaker 1: their their second job or it's their retirement, and they
Speaker 1: just want to They don't even need to make money,
Speaker 1: they just want to have a good experience. Hobby's supposed
Speaker 1: to be fun. It's not all about money. And the
Speaker 1: thing that the main thing that came out of that
Speaker 1: Fanatics thing is that Fanatics thinks the hobby is about
Speaker 1: entirely and it's sad. But anyway, oh well, uh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, because I know we've been hearing
Speaker 2: like the five x ten x thing for a few
Speaker 2: years now, and it again is marketing five x ten
Speaker 2: x the hobby. I mean, I think they they can
Speaker 2: mean that in multiple ways, but like if you want
Speaker 2: to distill it down to like the basic truth, it's
Speaker 2: a it's a snappy phrase to say more money, We're
Speaker 2: gonna enrich fanatics and you know, fanatics gobbling you know,
Speaker 2: certain ip up and that kind of thing. I don't know,
Speaker 2: I mean, and I you know, I understand, like you know,
Speaker 2: this is business, this is the way that the world
Speaker 2: works and stuff. But also I don't know why they
Speaker 2: have to impose it on everyone, Like you said, Dan,
Speaker 2: some mom and pop shops they do it just because
Speaker 2: they love it and this is the world that they know,
Speaker 2: and this is the world that they want to be in,
Speaker 2: and they don't want to five or ten x their shop.
Speaker 2: They don't want to modernize it in a way that
Speaker 2: is specifically catered to fanatics and fanatics demands they you know,
Speaker 2: I think that's the hard thing. I know, we've talked
Speaker 2: about this. I know, doctor Jim and I actually in
Speaker 2: the show one time talked about like I can't comprehend
Speaker 2: some of the thoughts of certain people in the hobby
Speaker 2: because my goals are different. My goal is not to
Speaker 2: become a billionaire and to continue to enrich myself. It's
Speaker 2: to enjoy myself and to connect with people and to
Speaker 2: celebrate the things that I enjoy in a very particular way.
Speaker 2: And I can't fathom how five x to ten X
Speaker 2: for fanatics can be that much better, especially when we
Speaker 2: know their quality is going down. And it's very shameless
Speaker 2: of them to say that like five x ten X
Speaker 2: the hobby is going to improve everybody's experience when we
Speaker 2: know even not you know, like just cards. We know
Speaker 2: like even their jersey quality has gone down, their customer
Speaker 2: service has gone down. Like they you know, when you're
Speaker 2: talking five x ten X, we know what they're saying.
Speaker 2: They're saying dollar signs. They're not saying your enjoyment, your collection,
Speaker 2: your experiences, your you know, like they're not talking about
Speaker 2: like the personal tangible things. They're talking about numbers on
Speaker 2: a page. And I mean, I know that some people
Speaker 2: don't believe that, and I think that that's naive and
Speaker 2: and I'm usually a very lay person, but it's it's they.
Speaker 2: I think they only want to grow the hobby if
Speaker 2: it makes them more money. And I understand that's the
Speaker 2: world they live in, but it's not a world that
Speaker 2: I have to appreciate, enjoy or endorse. I guess so,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost is if if you give one com
Speaker 3: any monopoly power, then they don't have to listen to
Speaker 3: what the end consumer wants any hmmm. Yeah, and the
Speaker 3: interest of full disclosure. I used to work as an
Speaker 3: anti trust economist with the people know that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a question that I think we discussed
Speaker 1: a few uh at least a few hosting of my
Speaker 1: hobby hotline hosting, probably a few months ago, that you know,
Speaker 1: they they're using allocation as a as a manipulative tool
Speaker 1: and the legality of it, and I frankly think that
Speaker 1: there isn't any illegality if they say I don't want
Speaker 1: to send anything, because at the time, I think that
Speaker 1: the story was that Burbank had only gotten like three
Speaker 1: cases of some some new product and it was like
Speaker 1: they had you know, I can't remember the name of
Speaker 1: the guy who owns burbank. I just ye, Rob Rob
Speaker 1: Verus went on like I g and did a video
Speaker 1: of out how little they had gotten in terms of
Speaker 1: you know, allocation. You know, it was it was a
Speaker 1: story for a little bits. Communism is the clete opposite.
Speaker 8: Well comrades, real quick, elective soviet to get new tops,
Speaker 8: consumer product, real click.
Speaker 2: I just want to say to like we you know
Speaker 2: we we are hobby Hotline. We're not a big platform,
Speaker 2: but we're a solid platform where people who care and
Speaker 2: where people come together who normally may not have conversations
Speaker 2: come together and talk every Saturday, and you know, we
Speaker 2: have the chat and it's it's great. You know what
Speaker 2: thoughts we have and what we say is it is it?
Speaker 2: Does it really matter to Michael Rubin and fanatics in Mayhan?
Speaker 2: Maybe not? But you know what what, well, nobody can
Speaker 2: go up against them, Like let's be honest, if Panini
Speaker 2: couldn't go up against them, there there's they have too
Speaker 2: much money, they have too much power, they have too
Speaker 2: much you know, too much of a device behind them.
Speaker 2: But we as individuals and as you know, a smaller
Speaker 2: platform being able to speak out and to talk about
Speaker 2: it and to talk about the nitty gritty and like
Speaker 2: some of the like kind of gross, uncomfortable parts of
Speaker 2: this I think is important. And I think, you know,
Speaker 2: not just complaining and not just whining, but having like
Speaker 2: thoughtful conversations like I think we've had here today about
Speaker 2: what this all means for us and for collectors and
Speaker 2: for hobby shots and for the ecosystem. I think that's important.
Speaker 2: And I don't I don't personally want to impress Michael Rubin.
Speaker 2: He doesn't know I exist, he probably never will, and
Speaker 2: I'm okay with that. But I I do think we,
Speaker 2: you know, having pushback and having these conversations, even in
Speaker 2: our smaller, you know, setting here, I think it's important.
Speaker 2: I think it's important that people are hearing this and
Speaker 2: that they can seek it out, they can find it.
Speaker 2: They can hear what Chris thinks, they can hear what
Speaker 2: Dan thinks, and your thoughtful discussions. So I'm sorry, I'm
Speaker 2: just ranting. I just I think these are important discussions
Speaker 2: because sports card nonsense was Let's be honest, I have
Speaker 2: not watched the interview, so I'm speaking from a place
Speaker 2: of ignorance, but based on what Dan said, it was
Speaker 2: a platform for marketing, for PR, this specific interview and
Speaker 2: to recognize that is important, and to recognize that's not
Speaker 2: what Hobby Hotline is is important. And I'm sure that
Speaker 2: Michael Mahan and Michael Rubin could come on Hobby Hotline
Speaker 2: and have a conversation, it would go differently than it
Speaker 2: did on Sports Card Nonsense because of the fabric of
Speaker 2: Hobby Hotline versus. And I'm not I'm not criticizing Sports
Speaker 2: Card Nonsense. I'm not like criticizing I am dan is,
Speaker 2: but like I, you know, I understand their role and
Speaker 2: what they do and stuff. I think to pretend like
Speaker 2: this was like a hard hitting interview when it was,
Speaker 2: it was it was PR. It was it was a
Speaker 2: marketing conversation to be broadcast as a podcast episode. And
Speaker 2: I just think that it's important that we're having discussions,
Speaker 2: we're getting into the nitty gritty of it, and I
Speaker 2: appreciate that you guys have these thoughts and that you're
Speaker 2: vocal about it.
Speaker 1: So you know, John, I love John Keating. He's he's
Speaker 1: an absolute wonderful man and I cherish every moment I've
Speaker 1: spat with him. But he's wrong when it comes to this.
Speaker 1: Michael Rubin, will hear right now, I would be asking
Speaker 1: the follow up questions sport card nonsense. Yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: who knows I could be wrong. Maybe they would just
Speaker 1: bowl me over. I did notice Michael Rubin would touch
Speaker 1: touch Geo on the shoulder every time he said something
Speaker 1: that he didn't want you to push back. And you
Speaker 1: see this. The body language is amazing because you know,
Speaker 1: people are talking about the slouching and you know that's
Speaker 1: I'm just the cool guy, you know, you know, And
Speaker 1: but there was the he was touching people at points
Speaker 1: where I was like, oh, I know what he's doing
Speaker 1: right now. He's telling Geo, do not ask me a
Speaker 1: hard question right now? Do not follow up that.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like and they they fell for it. And at
Speaker 1: the end, Jesse is sitting there thanking them. I wanted
Speaker 1: to thank you for all you do for the Are
Speaker 1: you kidding? What is wrong with you? You're sitting there,
Speaker 1: you know, he wanted to thank them for giving them
Speaker 1: an opportunity to get a lot of views on that video.
Speaker 1: Probably you know, people people have stars in their eyes
Speaker 1: and they and they don't understand that they don't push
Speaker 1: back on the nonsense sports Card nonsense on the on
Speaker 1: the gibberish that's being sold to them, on the promotion
Speaker 1: that's being sold to them, because they're they're hanging out
Speaker 1: with with God luminaries, so you know, they're stars in
Speaker 1: their eyes. And you know, Lauren, I think you made
Speaker 1: it really really good point.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Is Michael going to watch this? No sports cards nonsense,
Speaker 1: going to watch this? Probably? But if everybody who was
Speaker 1: in the chat and everybody who watches this afterwards can
Speaker 1: take away from the from this that you know, we
Speaker 1: there there are questions that need to be asked to
Speaker 1: these people. There are people to look out for. The
Speaker 1: hobby is not in a good position if this is
Speaker 1: the guy who's running the modern hobby. And and I
Speaker 1: think your points are all really well taken, and I
Speaker 1: totally agree with you. And so we're we're over. We're
Speaker 1: run over time one of six. Wow. Okay, I don't
Speaker 1: want John Newman to come in here and shut us down.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Chris uh, it's always pleasure, sir.
Speaker 3: I do want to state that on Hobby Hotline, all
Speaker 3: of our noses are not brown, clean are clean?
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate that. I agree with you, but you
Speaker 1: know you you provide some fantastic analysis, Chris, and I
Speaker 1: really appreciate you coming on, Lauren. It was an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 1: I hope we get to do this again again. You
Speaker 1: you You've said some stuff that really resonates for me.
Speaker 1: The chat was fantastic today. Some of my favorite guys
Speaker 1: and and and some of my some guys I don't
Speaker 1: even know have never met, but some guys that I'm
Speaker 1: friends with and really happy. The chat was really involved today.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna say goodbye for now and basically say
Speaker 1: tune back in next Saturday for Hobby Hotline. I guess
Speaker 1: we haven't done the September schedule yet, but I've been
Speaker 1: hosting once a month, so I'm really enjoying my time
Speaker 1: here and to get to meet some new people and
Speaker 1: happy to hang out with Chrystal tonight. So today so
Speaker 1: and chat also appreciate it. So take care, guys, keep rocking.
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to this episode of Hobby Hotline.
Speaker 6: I just want to remind everyone we are a live
Speaker 6: show every Saturday morning, eleven am Eastern eight am Pacific
Speaker 6: on the four Collectors channel on YouTube. That's the number
Speaker 6: four the word Collectors channel on YouTube. We hope to
Speaker 6: see many of you live on a future Saturday. We
Speaker 6: have a great interactive chat room and we always provide
Speaker 6: a link for anyone that wants to come on the
Speaker 6: show and chop it up with us.
Speaker 3: So that's a reminder.
Speaker 6: Every Saturday eleven am Eastern eight am Pacific, only four
Speaker 6: Collectors channel on YouTube.
Speaker 3: Hope to see you on the show.