WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.800 --> 00:00:05.559 The following presentation is abol Marvis Studio's production. 2 00:00:22.839 --> 00:00:29.760 When you look on the Sky, do you feel the poll? 3 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:32.880 The question why. 4 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:40.880 The stories told and left behind in shadows where the 5 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:48.320 truth we find. They built their tails on grafts and 6 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:56.960 lives on theories they stake their designed put down here 7 00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:59.880 on this solid ground. 8 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:03.320 Welcome back truth seekers from around the world to a 9 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:07.120 very special edition of the Flat Earth Files podcast. As 10 00:01:07.159 --> 00:01:09.599 we record it is Friday, March twenty eighth, about eleven 11 00:01:09.640 --> 00:01:13.239 am Eastern Time. I hope this audio and video presentation 12 00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:17.599 finds you well. Today we have author Mark Gober and 13 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:21.359 his new book An End to the Upside Down Cosmos, 14 00:01:21.959 --> 00:01:26.120 Rethinking the Big Bang, Heliocentrism, the Lights in the Sky, 15 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:29.879 and Where We Live. This is his latest book, in 16 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:33.840 his seventh in the series. Please help us welcome Mark 17 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:37.120 Gober to the podcast. Hello Mark, how are you. I'm 18 00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:39.480 doing well? Thank you so much for having me on. Yeah, 19 00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:41.799 thank you so much for coming on it. And again 20 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:45.120 thanks to I think Ryan who linked us up. Why 21 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:46.760 don't you go ahead and take a moment and introduce 22 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:47.719 yourself to the audience. 23 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.159 Sure, as you mentioned, I've written a series of books, 24 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:55.879 but my background really doesn't have much to do with 25 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:59.359 the books I've written about. I graduated from Princeton University 26 00:01:59.359 --> 00:02:01.840 in two thousand and eight, and like many of my classmates, 27 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:03.200 didn't know what I wanted to do. So I went 28 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:05.760 into investment banking in New York and that was during 29 00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:08.479 the financial crisis, so that was an interesting period to 30 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:10.039 be working in New York. I was at a large 31 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:12.919 bank called UBS, so it was one of the banks 32 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:14.759 that was having problems at the time, but it was 33 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:18.159 also a bank that advised other financial institutions, and that 34 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:20.039 was my role within the bank, was to help other 35 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:24.840 financial institutions like insurance companies, asset managers, banks. So it 36 00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:28.439 was quite a stressful period and I left that firm 37 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:32.120 in twenty ten to join a firm based in Boston 38 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:34.199 and Silicon Valley. First I moved to Boston and then 39 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:37.120 spent the majority of my time in Silicon Valley advising 40 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:40.599 technology focused companies on their intellectual property and the way 41 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:44.039 in which their patented technologies related to their business strategy. 42 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:46.479 And was very interested in all that work while I 43 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:49.280 was in it. But in twenty sixteen, at the firm 44 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:52.000 in Silicon Valley, I started listening to podcasts and then 45 00:02:52.039 --> 00:02:55.360 reading books and scientific papers about the nature of consciousness, 46 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:58.080 and what I was finding was that there was a 47 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:00.400 lot of evidence suggesting that there is a part of 48 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:03.599 our being that transcends the body. So I was getting 49 00:03:03.639 --> 00:03:06.479 into topics that were forcing me into topics or into 50 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:08.759 concepts that I would have called spiritual, and at the 51 00:03:08.759 --> 00:03:10.400 time I was very resistant to that. I was more 52 00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:13.319 of an atheist diagnostic. I thought science had taught us 53 00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:15.680 that anything in the spiritual domain was part of a 54 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:19.199 superstition from the past that we had. We've moved beyond 55 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:21.960 that with our scientific findings. So this was a big 56 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:25.000 shock for me to learn there were really there was 57 00:03:25.039 --> 00:03:28.960 an abundance of science coming from the University of Virginia, 58 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:32.000 their Division of Perceptual Studies at the Medical School, the 59 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:36.400 Institute of Noetic Sciences, Princeton University, and a whole host 60 00:03:36.439 --> 00:03:40.199 of others. The US government conducting remote viewing programs, which 61 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:42.879 is basically psychic spying. And this has led me on 62 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:45.879 a journey now almost ten years to explore not only 63 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:48.400 the nature of reality and what a human being is, 64 00:03:48.479 --> 00:03:51.240 but most recently, to explore where is it that we live? 65 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:55.400 Because initially my exploration was okay, if there's something in 66 00:03:55.479 --> 00:03:58.479 consciousness that's beyond the body, maybe our brains, like an 67 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:01.840 antenna receiver or a filter mechanism. And so I was 68 00:04:01.879 --> 00:04:03.639 focused on who are we and why are we here? 69 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:06.560 And I'm still very interested in that, But until more recently, 70 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:09.039 I wasn't asking the question what does it mean to 71 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:12.680 be here? What is here? I had this very mainstream 72 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:15.199 model stuck in my mind, really branded in there, of 73 00:04:15.199 --> 00:04:17.519 a big Bang thirteen point eight billion years ago leading 74 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:21.199 to a heliocentric solar system where Earth revolves around the Sun. 75 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:25.360 Earth is a spitting globe and we are a pale 76 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:28.120 blue dot in a massive universe. We are just one 77 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:31.000 of many other places out there, and we live in 78 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:35.079 this unimaginably large place. And the Big Bang, the start 79 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:39.360 of the universe happened at really an unthinkably long time ago. 80 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:41.399 In my book, and then too, the Upside Down Cosmos 81 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:44.519 looks at those assumptions and shows hopefully shows the flaws. 82 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:46.560 You know what's interesting to me if I do the 83 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:49.000 math right. You were in your late twenties early thirties 84 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:54.000 when you started to have this journey, and you're, you know, 85 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:58.600 considering consciousness which you know, when I was in my 86 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:01.680 late twenties early thirties, that didn't really cross my mind. 87 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:02.519 It's interesting to me. 88 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:04.319 I don't know if it's just because of the journey 89 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:07.439 you took, and I can't imagine, you know, going to 90 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:11.439 you said, Princeton and then coming out into the business 91 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:14.759 world after preparing for that, and I assume it was 92 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:16.759 around two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine when 93 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.319 you start your financial journey into that mess, when the 94 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:24.240 world's upside down. It's not quite but similar to you know, 95 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:27.600 getting out of college in nineteen twenty nine, did seeing 96 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:33.319 I guess did being attached to money twenty four to seven? 97 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:37.879 At some point do you start to see the esthetics 98 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:42.240 of money and the false kind of world that it creates? 99 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:45.279 Was Did that have some impact on your journey and 100 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:47.879 your changing of the way you used to think? 101 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:51.720 It definitely had an impact on my journey because I 102 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.399 saw others around me, especially the more senior members of 103 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:56.519 the teams I was on, whether they were clients or 104 00:05:56.519 --> 00:05:59.120 within my own firm. I saw the way they were 105 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:03.160 prioritizing life, and many of them, especially when I lived 106 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:05.560 in New York, I found didn't seem to be super happy, 107 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:10.120 like they were on this hamster wheel and they were 108 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:13.639 working really hard, and with the lavish lifestyles, especially in 109 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:16.639 New York, it's almost like there's never enough. And I 110 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:18.040 was at the bottom of the totem pole, so I 111 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:20.560 didn't really see that the larger politics, but I was 112 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:23.120 in the jungle. I was in that environment, and definitely 113 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:26.720 that shaped me. I think my work, especially in Silicon Valley, 114 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:30.279 dealing with patented technologies and the ways in which companies 115 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:33.600 will sometimes steal from each other and then litigate each other. 116 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:36.639 I saw that angle, and I saw a corruption in 117 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:39.439 the court systems, corruption in the media. So I was 118 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:42.360 exposed to a lot that probably primed me, in hindsight, 119 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:46.040 to question paradigms, especially working with patents, because when you 120 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:49.160 get a patent, by definition, it's granted if it's novel 121 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:52.439 and non obvious relative to other inventions that have been 122 00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:54.600 put out. So I was always working with people who 123 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:58.600 had questioned paradigms, and often they were demeaned for doing so. 124 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:01.079 So I probably had a good base for doing what 125 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:03.240 I do now. But as you say, George, I was 126 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:05.720 around thirty when this paradigm shift happened. I was on 127 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:07.720 my way to being partner at my firm, which I 128 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:10.360 eventually became a partner at the firm. So I was 129 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:12.959 squarely on a mainstream path. But even at that time 130 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:16.839 in twenty sixteen, around when I was thirty, I was 131 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:20.360 feeling like I was on a treadmill. But I was 132 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:23.319 not looking for something new. I thought science had taught 133 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:25.560 us everything we needed to know and we were just 134 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:27.920 working out the details. There was no meaning to life, 135 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:30.240 and when we die, that is the end of our consciousness. 136 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:32.839 It's all random and meaningless. That's what I believed. It 137 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:35.759 just happened to be that I stumbled across podcasts initially 138 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:38.879 that led me to books and scientific papers, which kind 139 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:40.720 of forced me to look at consciousness. It was not 140 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:43.319 something I was interested in at all, but I realized 141 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:45.600 the implications of what I was learning. Whether it was 142 00:07:45.800 --> 00:07:50.680 declassified documents from the US government validating psychic spying and 143 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:53.680 the implications that our consciousness could transcend space and time, 144 00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:55.680 that was something I couldn't deny when I was looking 145 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:57.920 at these documents and reading the books about it. That's 146 00:07:57.959 --> 00:07:59.920 just one example. And then peer reviewed paper after peer 147 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:03.360 review paper on these sorts of phenomenon, near death experiences 148 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:08.680 and others. I just realized I had to reconsider life completely, 149 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:11.000 and I didn't know I would go into these other areas. 150 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:13.199 So initially it was just about the nature of consciousness. 151 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:15.680 My first book An End to upside Down Thinking, and 152 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:18.199 then the follow on podcast series. It's an eight episode 153 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:21.360 series called Where Is My Mind? And then I was 154 00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:24.199 led to look into politics when twenty twenty happened. I 155 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:26.439 wasn't really interested in politics then, and I saw deception 156 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:28.199 in the media and other places, and I said, wow, 157 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:30.600 I've seen this in the world of business too. What's 158 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:32.360 going on here? Is there is there something that I 159 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:34.960 didn't quite look into when I was just looking into consciousness, 160 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:37.120 the dark versus light. So I wrote an end to 161 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:38.720 upside Down Liberty, and then I wrote an end to 162 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:42.960 upside Down Contact, which talks about the forces and interdimensional intelligences, 163 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:45.360 which I know might sound crazy, but I couldn't believe. 164 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:48.240 The more I dug into this stuff there was evidence 165 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:51.240 that I had not previously encountered. And that's been the 166 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:53.120 patterns even as I've gone on to an end to 167 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:55.320 upside Down Medicine and now an End to the upside 168 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:59.440 Down cosmos. There's this abundance of information that seems to 169 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:01.679 have been supper and I thought I was pretty well educated, 170 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:03.120 but now I don't feel that way. 171 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:05.320 I think we all go through that where we have 172 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:09.919 to almost unbox ourselves and relearn is the word I 173 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:12.919 like to use. We have to relearn everything because what 174 00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:17.080 we are taught is it's a combination of the way 175 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:19.879 we are taught right that like to keep critical thinking 176 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:22.559 away from us. Rockefeller said he wants a nation of workers, 177 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:25.360 not a nation of thinkers. So I think they carefully 178 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:29.600 crafted the education system the way they have not only 179 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:34.440 K to twelve, but if you wanted to, you know, 180 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:37.759 further your education, you went to Princeton. If you're lucky, 181 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:41.759 you get a scholarship, whether it be educational or athletic. 182 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:45.159 But for the most part, people, and I say this 183 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:49.480 all the time, they make it so difficult starting out 184 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:52.120 in your life. If you go to college, there's a 185 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:54.200 very good chance that you're in debt one hundred k 186 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:57.120 before you even you know, walk through the office doors 187 00:09:57.159 --> 00:10:02.960 for the first day. I think they've carefully created the matrix, 188 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:06.480 you know, for lack of better words, so that you 189 00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:11.000 are working sixty seventy hours a week trying to pay 190 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:13.799 the bills. So you know, in many cases, both mom 191 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:15.879 and dad have to work, so you send the child 192 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:18.960 off to the school because they can create. They can 193 00:10:19.120 --> 00:10:22.960 create and mold the minds of your children while you're 194 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:25.279 working and scrambling to pay your bills. I think all 195 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:26.320 of this is intentional. 196 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:30.080 It certainly feels that way to me, and it leaves 197 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:32.679 people with no time to consider what's actually going on 198 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:36.120 in our reality, who and what we are, why we're here. 199 00:10:36.519 --> 00:10:38.440 We're so focused on the next thing we need to 200 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:41.279 do in order to survive that the bigger cosmic questions 201 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:44.600 are often just not tackled, and then we become so 202 00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:48.000 entrained in the mainstream view whatever we're told and basically 203 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:52.639 hypnotize with certain paradigms. So I was there for a 204 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:54.480 long time. I'm still working my way out of it. 205 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:57.360 I call it unlearning. It's like I'm unlearning the things 206 00:10:57.399 --> 00:10:59.600 I was taught. And in many ways I feel like 207 00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:03.240 I learned things that were incorrect in my education. But 208 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:05.519 I also did learn how to learn, which has been 209 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:08.919 very valuable in this journey and especially in my business career. 210 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:11.120 A lot of what I had to do in Silicon 211 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:17.120 Valley was translate complex technological and legal concepts to business 212 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:19.200 leaders and to be able to provide a board of 213 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:22.279 directors with the five minute snapshot and have all the 214 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:25.559 resources and references available, but to be able to summarize 215 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:28.480 and synthesize. So what I've done is taken that skill 216 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:30.480 set and apply it to areas that I'm finding to 217 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:32.639 be much more meaningful because they get to the big 218 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:34.480 questions of who are we, why are we here, what 219 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:37.200 is this place? And therefore, what should we be doing, 220 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:39.080 and how should we prioritize our lives? 221 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:44.360 Well said, you had mentioned earlier the twenty twenty election 222 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:48.480 and that you knew what we saw with our own 223 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:50.799 eyes and what we were told were two different things. 224 00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:52.960 But then you mentioned you dealt with the same things 225 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:55.879 in business, what type of things. You don't have to 226 00:11:55.879 --> 00:11:58.360 get too specific, but did you see that just didn't 227 00:11:58.399 --> 00:11:58.840 add up. 228 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:01.240 Yeah. The tricky thing with this is some of it 229 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.200 is confidential. So I'm just going to give you high 230 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:07.759 level yeah, which many people will probably resonate with. But 231 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:12.840 when you have companies that invent ideas that threaten an industry, 232 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:15.919 there's an incentive for the industry to go after those 233 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:18.639 companies and to suppress what they do and to mean them, 234 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:22.240 and to work with the media and whatever other means 235 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:25.279 are necessary in order to suppress a competitive technology. So 236 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:29.240 you can imagine what a landscape that creates. And so 237 00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:31.440 I saw it from the inside because I worked with 238 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:34.679 so many different companies, sometimes large companies and sometimes small companies. 239 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:38.240 I saw from both sides of the angle of the spectrum. 240 00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:43.080 And when twenty twenty happened, especially with the medical issues, 241 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:46.840 we were told a narrative that this was something very severe, 242 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:48.799 we should all be very afraid. And I remember there 243 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:50.720 were some doctors that came out who worked in the 244 00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:54.000 er and said, look, this is not as severe as 245 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:56.840 what the media is telling us, and then immediately suppressed 246 00:12:57.200 --> 00:12:59.360 and taken off YouTube. And that was the pattern we've 247 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:01.440 all seen now for a long time. That was my 248 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:05.000 first exposure to this sort of corruption that I had 249 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:07.080 seen in the business world. I actually did see it 250 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:09.480 a bit in my research on consciousness, because many of 251 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:12.799 those scientists are challenging the mainstream paradigm of not only 252 00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:16.960 science and philosophy, but also neuroscience, and they're often called pseudoscientists. 253 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:19.639 I think very much inappropriately and their Wikipedia pages get 254 00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:22.519 taken over. But what happened in twenty twenty was a 255 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:26.799 bigger society wide scale of corruption that I said, okay, 256 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:30.200 I've actually seen this before. And then George, what really 257 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:32.440 surprised me was that many of the people who supported 258 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:35.960 my earlier work were going with the name's mainstream narratives, 259 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:38.360 and I became very confused. I said, wait a second. 260 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:40.840 I thought these people were so enlightened in many ways, 261 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:42.360 and I still have a lot of respect for them, 262 00:13:42.519 --> 00:13:45.720 But how are they not seeing the manipulation and they're 263 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:49.360 actually supporting the mainstream narrative. So I started to realize 264 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:52.159 what Ken Wilber, a spiritual philosopher, he calls it lines 265 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:55.120 of development, meaning that we can be evolved in different 266 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:58.360 basically pillars, but they're somewhat independent of each other. So 267 00:13:58.399 --> 00:13:59.919 you could have someone who's really good at one thing 268 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:02.440 but then misses it on another thing. And I said, okay, 269 00:14:02.759 --> 00:14:05.200 there's a lot more than because initially, when I wrote 270 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:07.240 my first book, I thought, Okay, here's my first book. 271 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:09.559 I'm done. I'll just continue in my career, And when 272 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:11.759 twenty twenty hit, I realized there was way more for me. 273 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:14.879 To explore, and that was that's what I was going 274 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:17.320 to bring up next were the events of twenty twenty. 275 00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:20.000 The reason that you wrote an end to upside down 276 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:25.679 liberty and the subtitle is important. It's turning traditional political 277 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:28.759 thinking on its head to break free from enslavement. 278 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:34.320 And you're not understating that at all exactly. I previously, 279 00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:37.559 previous to twenty twenty was not a political person at all. 280 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:39.720 I didn't know much about the parties. It was not 281 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:43.360 something that interested me, only to the degree that had 282 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:45.559 affected business. So if there was new legislation or new 283 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:47.440 case law, I would pay attention to that. But I 284 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:50.039 couldn't have really told you the differences between how the 285 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:53.000 Democrats and the Republicans felt back in twenty twenty. If 286 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:54.840 you can believe that, I was very naive in that 287 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:57.159 area because I just didn't care. Twenty twenty hit and 288 00:14:57.159 --> 00:14:59.240 all of a sudden it mattered because some people were saying, 289 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:00.679 you need to put a man ask over your face, 290 00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:02.480 and other people were saying, no, you should be free. 291 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:05.159 I was very quickly resonating with the people talking about 292 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:07.720 freedom and talking about freedom of speech and being able 293 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.360 to question medical paradigms and political paradigms. So I would 294 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:14.159 say at first I was very much drawn toward the 295 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:17.440 conservatives because I felt like they were hitting on the 296 00:15:17.480 --> 00:15:19.799 truth better than the left was in twenty twenty with 297 00:15:19.879 --> 00:15:23.159 regard to the medical stuff happening. But then I realized 298 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:25.600 that basically anywhere on the political spectrum is one group 299 00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:28.000 of people imposing their will on others, and I felt 300 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:30.320 that had a moral problem as it pertained to what 301 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:32.399 I learned in consciousness, and that led me down the 302 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:36.080 road of what's known as voluntarism, which is basically allowing 303 00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:39.039 people to be fully free a society without rulers, but 304 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:42.120 a society that would have rules within private property. So 305 00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:43.840 that led me to look at the Austrian school of 306 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:48.759 economics Ledig von Misis, Murray Rothbard and very libertarian ideals, 307 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:51.399 and to me, that was the only philosophy I could 308 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:53.679 find that aligned with the research I had done on 309 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:56.320 consciousness and natural law. And that's what this book and 310 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:59.559 End to Upside Down Liberty talks about is combining what 311 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:04.159 I call it metaphysical political philosophy, not just a political philosophy, 312 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:07.480 So it's one in which people are inherently free and 313 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.200 acting that way outside of the state, but also have 314 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:13.399 a mindset that is in alignment with the nature of 315 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:16.120 reality and the nature of consciousness, So because I think 316 00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:17.960 both are important. If you have people that are not 317 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:20.799 of that more spiritual mindset living in a free society, 318 00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:23.039 you can have lots of problems. You'd also have those 319 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:24.840 problems within the state, which is what we have now. 320 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:28.279 So I'm pointing toward this north star of the future because, 321 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:30.879 as you say, George, I think the system we have 322 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.080 now is a system of enslavement. That might sound harsh, 323 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:36.320 but it really is when you get down to natural 324 00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:38.679 law and the Golden rule, which I view as something 325 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:40.879 that's built into the fabric of reality based on a 326 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:44.240 lot of research like near death experiences. So if we 327 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:46.200 view the Golden rule to be built into the fabric 328 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:50.039 of reality that we should not initiate aggression against another 329 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:53.360 person or their property, then the way we run society 330 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:57.320 right now, with government as a political monopoly, is inherently 331 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:01.559 violating natural law and spiritual principles. So there are varying 332 00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:04.079 degrees of oppression within governments, of course, and I think 333 00:17:04.119 --> 00:17:08.160 in America we have done much better than other countries 334 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:11.359 and governments throughout history. However, it is still a form 335 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:14.279 of enslavement in that the government can impose things that 336 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:16.559 we didn't agree to. That's right, and we only have 337 00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:19.559 implied consent. We only have a quote unquote social contract, 338 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:21.599 which I'd love to see what that says, because I 339 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:24.160 don't remember sitting down with the government and agreeing to 340 00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:27.039 all these things. So that's what I get into in 341 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:28.480 this book and end to upside down liberty. 342 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:34.359 Yeah, and you know what was so the government will 343 00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:37.240 tell you subconsciously, subliminally whatever, what do you want to 344 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:41.240 say if the government wasn't there, that everybody would just 345 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:43.920 commit crimes and kill each other. That's really what they 346 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:48.279 want you to believe. But really, in a morally based environment, 347 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:53.240 for example, states like Idaho. Right, you're eighteen, you're a citizen, 348 00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:56.680 a citizen of the United States, you can carry a gun. Well, 349 00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:00.319 according to the government, will that just their crime rates 350 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.000 must be through the roof if everybody's walking around carrying 351 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.559 a gun. But the truth is their crime rate is 352 00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:08.519 forty percent less than the median in the United States 353 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:13.960 of America. So the whole concept of this government and 354 00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:15.960 not just here in the United States. But you know, 355 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:20.480 we're already very much a global government. But you're going 356 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:22.839 to give up a little bit of your security, or 357 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:26.079 I'm sorry, you're going to give up your freedom for security. 358 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:29.519 And again, it's this contract that they have, right because 359 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:33.400 if our freedom is threatened, and listen, the threat may 360 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:36.960 be in Vietnam, it may be in Iraq, but you know, 361 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:38.799 we have to protect that and you have to be 362 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:41.680 willing to be drafted. And we're going to take twenty 363 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:43.559 percent of your income for this, and on and on 364 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:46.599 and on, and that is the social contract that that 365 00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:51.200 is really our enslavement. And I've been working very hard 366 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:53.640 over the last several years to try to break people 367 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:55.640 of the left right narrative. 368 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:56.240 Right. 369 00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:59.359 I made a comment about Trump the other day, and 370 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:04.880 I'm all transparency. I voted Republican my entire life until 371 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:08.640 twenty sixteen. That was the last election when literally a 372 00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:11.759 month after he was elected, he hired a Rothchild agent, 373 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:14.759 Wilbur Ross as the Secretary of Commerce, a guy who 374 00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:17.559 was a Democrat his entire life, and then after fifty 375 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:19.599 eight years of being a Democrat, he woke up and said, 376 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:22.599 I'm going to be a Republican and be the Secretary 377 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:25.960 of Commerce. And that's when you really understand that there's 378 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:30.119 not really a difference between professional wrestling and politics. It's 379 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:34.039 all scripted. And if you think that the President and 380 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:38.319 Congress and Scotis are the most powerful people on earth, 381 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:44.039 they work for the military industrial complex, they work for 382 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:49.920 Silicon Valley, they work for other government entities. They answer 383 00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:52.559 to people. If you think that the president doesn't answer 384 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.960 to other people at Bankers just another example, you're missing 385 00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:57.279 the boat. 386 00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:01.160 Yeah, there's this inherent paradise, and I think what you're 387 00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:04.480 getting to is questioning the institution of government itself, regardless 388 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:07.559 of who's in there and what people say in rebuttal 389 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:11.000 to this is, well, people are not trustworthy, and therefore 390 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:13.640 we need a governing body to take care of everyone. 391 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:18.359 The problem is that this undermines the entire belief in government, 392 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:20.880 because if the belief is the assumption is we do 393 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:24.240 not trust people, therefore we're going to take a subset 394 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:25.960 of people that we already said we didn't trust and 395 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:28.920 put them in power in a political monopoly with unilateral 396 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:32.119 decision making authority. Then you've basically said we shouldn't trust government, 397 00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:34.720 and we shouldn't trust the people who we said we 398 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:37.079 couldn't trust. To elect the right people into power, and 399 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:38.960 we shouldn't trust the people who you said you didn't 400 00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:41.079 trust to run fair elections. 401 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:46.400