Speaker 1: You're listening to Redefining Energy. Your co hosts from Berlin
Speaker 1: Gerard Reed and from London Laurent Segal.
Speaker 2: Today on Rief n Energy.
Speaker 3: We're going to DeVos, where chard you moderated a panel
Speaker 3: last months.
Speaker 2: How do you arrive in a panel in DeVos? What
Speaker 2: does it take?
Speaker 4: The usual laurl look, but look a good fortune being
Speaker 4: in the right place the right time.
Speaker 5: I've been involved with the World Economic Forum, they have
Speaker 5: a Future Energy Council for many many years. And I
Speaker 5: also know the Hattachi people very well. So the Hattachi
Speaker 5: Energy people is the from a abb grid business. And
Speaker 5: then we just had a chat about let's actually do
Speaker 5: something there on the future of energy and really what
Speaker 5: we call the energy supercycle and whether it's a reality
Speaker 5: or not. I said, well, it's greater there, let's do it.
Speaker 2: Can you describe a bit of the Congress Center when
Speaker 2: you arrive, just.
Speaker 5: To describe Davos, just to give you an idea. So
Speaker 5: what you've got is this town, which is about one
Speaker 5: and a half kilometers up the mountains, and I have
Speaker 5: never seen such a big.
Speaker 4: Army presence in my life.
Speaker 5: I think there's probably more Swiss Army people there than
Speaker 5: there are people living in this town, right, there's about
Speaker 5: five thousand they deploy.
Speaker 4: Now why do they do that?
Speaker 5: Because what you've got is the top political leaders and
Speaker 5: business leaders from a large part of certainly the Western world,
Speaker 5: but actually I would say a greater world.
Speaker 2: There.
Speaker 5: For example, I met the Argentinian president Laurum. It was
Speaker 5: very funny, right Melay, Oh, I shook his hand, But
Speaker 5: you know the stuff like that that was there. You
Speaker 5: get all these people there, and you can imagine this
Speaker 5: is just a Swiss alpine ski resort, and so it's
Speaker 5: just full of these people and their security everywhere. I mean,
Speaker 5: you can't go anywhere without to get through meta detectors
Speaker 5: and and to get from one place to the other.
Speaker 4: You know, as I said, just it was very interesting
Speaker 4: to be there.
Speaker 2: You know, did you meet Bill Gates or not?
Speaker 4: No? I didn't meet Bill Gates.
Speaker 2: No, no, no. Did you meet anybody famous?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I did quite a few.
Speaker 2: Actually, okay, I drop the names. Drop the names.
Speaker 4: I'll give you an example. For example, I met Stefan Bansell.
Speaker 5: MH probably means nothing to you there. I think he
Speaker 5: is one of the most famous Frenchmen of our generation.
Speaker 5: He's the sea all more Dana. Obviously that's not It
Speaker 5: was all because of the COVID nineteen B. Actually that's
Speaker 5: very interesting so to just you know, being able to
Speaker 5: go over to people and just say hi, how are
Speaker 5: you no, and just chat to them, right, it was
Speaker 5: It's a really really interesting enviroment. I'm definitely going to
Speaker 5: spend more time there next year. I only went in
Speaker 5: for a day, and I am definitely going to spend
Speaker 5: three or four days there next year.
Speaker 3: Okay, because Urina complained that you only spend twenty four
Speaker 3: hours there.
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it just it was just the way things
Speaker 4: panned out. But next year, definitely, I won't to spend
Speaker 4: more time there.
Speaker 2: The room. How many people are they in the room?
Speaker 5: So what we did was with Hachi is we put
Speaker 5: on a small event and it was probably better.
Speaker 4: I don't know, there was eighty people in the room
Speaker 4: something like that. You just don't know who's in the
Speaker 4: room though. It's just very interesting, you know.
Speaker 2: It was good insure uce the ban Alan. So who
Speaker 2: was there with you?
Speaker 5: So we had tashi IgA Shahara and he's the executive
Speaker 5: chairman of Hititachi, and then we've got Hitachi Energy, which
Speaker 5: is our grid business, and the CEO of that was
Speaker 5: Andrea Sharon Beck. And then finally we had Elizabeth Vardaheim
Speaker 5: and she's the CEO of Statnet and Statnet is the
Speaker 5: Norwegian guid operator.
Speaker 2: Okay, great, so let's listen to excerpts of the panel.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the energy super cycle and
Speaker 1: why we think it's unstoppable. And to do that just
Speaker 1: in terms of our guests. Here to my right here
Speaker 1: we have Elizabeth.
Speaker 6: Who's the CEO of that.
Speaker 1: Net Thatt is the Norwegian grid operator. And then besides
Speaker 1: we have Tashi here who's the executive chairman of Haitachi.
Speaker 1: And then on the end there we have Andreas who
Speaker 1: is the chairman or the CEO of Hitachi Energy. So
Speaker 1: let me just sort of give you a little bit
Speaker 1: of context here before we open up to everybody.
Speaker 6: So use the phrase supercycle.
Speaker 1: Now, when I hear the word super cycle, I think commodities,
Speaker 1: and actually I think probably a good place to start
Speaker 1: about that is to talk about fossil fuels. Because we're
Speaker 1: not going to talk about the fossil fuels being in
Speaker 1: a super cycle, but I have to explain that. So
Speaker 1: if we look at fossil fuels across the world. We've
Speaker 1: probably seen peak demand for oil, all right, We've also
Speaker 1: seen peak demand for coal. Now we've got one fossil
Speaker 1: fuel where we're going to see demand increasing going forward,
Speaker 1: and that's natural gas. The reason is it's clean and
Speaker 1: it's very low cost, and also it fits very well
Speaker 1: in if you're going to build a future system built
Speaker 1: around clean renewables, clean nuclear and.
Speaker 6: Stuff like that. So this is what we see. Now.
Speaker 1: Let me just go to the supply side. So today,
Speaker 1: if I look at the oil industry, we have an
Speaker 1: access to supply. And by the way, I'm not including
Speaker 1: the fact that let's say Venezuela has the biggest oil
Speaker 1: reserves in the world and we're not exploiting them. The
Speaker 1: point about it is lots of oil out there and
Speaker 1: wheat demand. I don't go to coal. Nobody wants coal anymore,
Speaker 1: and it's not about climate change. It's just it's dirty
Speaker 1: and they are cheaper alternatives like natural gas. So we've
Speaker 1: got declining demand for that and we've got lots of
Speaker 1: supply on it.
Speaker 6: Now what does that mean.
Speaker 1: What that means is there's no supercycle in the fossil
Speaker 1: fuel area because it's high risk. Why would I put
Speaker 1: money on my finance person, Why would I put money
Speaker 1: or capital to work in an area where.
Speaker 6: I don't know what's going to happen with demand.
Speaker 1: So why are we talking about a supercycle in energy,
Speaker 1: because we're actually talking about a supercycle in electricity.
Speaker 6: Very different to talk a little bit what that is.
Speaker 1: If we look going forward, what we're going to do
Speaker 1: is we're going to electrify nearly all of our energy system.
Speaker 1: Why well, one is it's clean, it's efficient, it's low cost.
Speaker 1: And guess what not one of our digital devices can
Speaker 1: survive without electricity.
Speaker 6: Not one.
Speaker 1: And I have a very simple example, right, I come
Speaker 1: from Ireland. My home in Ireland had no heat the
Speaker 1: last two days. Let me explain why they have a
Speaker 1: little control box on the wall, and believe it not,
Speaker 1: it's battery powered and it went out of batteries. So
Speaker 1: the point I'm making, even though we're burning natural gas
Speaker 1: in the house, that controls all use electricity. You use
Speaker 1: an internal combustion engine car today that controls use electricity.
Speaker 1: We cannot do without electricity. I can do without cold tomorrow,
Speaker 1: I can do without all. I cannot do without electricity.
Speaker 1: Now to add to that I go and talk about
Speaker 1: the whole area of digitalization. Well, if I look in
Speaker 1: the Western world, what we've seen is electricity demand fall
Speaker 1: for the last ten years.
Speaker 6: Not a great place to put your money.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, guess what Now we're seeing electricity demand go up.
Speaker 1: Why because of artificial intelligence? Yeah, all right, Really, artificial
Speaker 1: intelliges are a very big game change for this whole
Speaker 1: electrification space. Now you might say, we've got all this
Speaker 1: growing demand for electricity, where's it going to come from?
Speaker 6: Well, let me just talk about.
Speaker 1: The technologies that are revolutionizing the supply side.
Speaker 6: The first one is solar.
Speaker 1: Now you might go, oh my god, solo, how can
Speaker 1: that revolutionize the world. So let me just put this
Speaker 1: into perspective. Last year we installed across the world six
Speaker 1: hundred gigawa's are solar. Now I'm going to compare that
Speaker 1: to nuclear nuclear there was three and a half gigawats
Speaker 1: put online. If I look at gas, ten gigawats put online.
Speaker 1: We have never seen an energy technology come to market
Speaker 1: as quickly as solar.
Speaker 6: Why.
Speaker 1: It's easy to install, and it's cheap, and it's getting cheaper,
Speaker 1: and the pform moments is getting better. Okay, So that's
Speaker 1: number one. The second thing is energy storage. People always
Speaker 1: talk about energy storage as a black box out there.
Speaker 1: We don't need it. Let's be really clear. Every energy
Speaker 1: system needs storage. So the current storage mechanism in the
Speaker 1: electricity system is called a pile of coal that's sitting
Speaker 1: at a coal bunker, or it's gas sitting in a
Speaker 1: gas tank. That's what we use in terms of storage.
Speaker 1: Now going forward, I'm just going to say to you
Speaker 1: that we're gonna use go to More's chemical storage. We're
Speaker 1: gonna go use lots and lots of batteries going forward,
Speaker 1: and I'll talk about lythium ion litia. Online batteries is
Speaker 1: not just revolutionizing the automobile space, but it will off
Speaker 1: revolutionize what's going on in our homes and our buildings.
Speaker 1: We will have these batteries in our homes, and I
Speaker 1: don't mean just for our digital devices. We'll do it
Speaker 1: just because it's cheap, okay, and it matches very well
Speaker 1: into solar And to just to give you an idea
Speaker 1: to scale, we now have one thousand gigawatts of batteries
Speaker 1: that came online last year, most of them in elect cars.
Speaker 1: All right, if I went back a few years ago
Speaker 1: you were probably at one hundred gigabytes, So the scale
Speaker 1: of increase is incredible. Now the third thing, and this
Speaker 1: is the game changer, is how do you connect all
Speaker 1: this together? You connect this together with digitalization. Now, digitalization
Speaker 1: is sensors, it's semiconductors, it's connectivity of your mobile devices,
Speaker 1: and more importantly, it's artificial intelligence. And I'm going to
Speaker 1: end on the artificial intelligibly because this is a game changer,
Speaker 1: and it's not just a game changer in the sense
Speaker 1: that you can connect everything together and make it a
Speaker 1: much more efficient system. For those of you who realize
Speaker 1: what's going on in artificial intelligence today, the latest AI
Speaker 1: models are up to the PhD standard of anyone doing
Speaker 1: the STEM qualification today, that's any science, technology, or mathematics.
Speaker 1: Now what does that mean, Well, I guess I'm going
Speaker 1: to have lots and lots of people helping me innovate
Speaker 1: faster than ever before. And because I'm going to be
Speaker 1: able to innovate faster than ever, what this means is
Speaker 1: that technologies like nuclear fusion, small modular reactors, you name it,
Speaker 1: are going to come to market much quicker than we
Speaker 1: have before because we will have real innovations in the
Speaker 1: area of material science, and I even go to go
Speaker 1: far to say we'll find new elements and we might
Speaker 1: even come.
Speaker 6: Up with new physics laws.
Speaker 1: That's the extent of really what is happening in the world. Now,
Speaker 1: what does that mean for me? In conclusion? Well, actually,
Speaker 1: that doesn't sound like a small thing. That sounds like
Speaker 1: a revolution. And if I go back in time, the
Speaker 1: first energy revolution or the first industrial revolution was a
Speaker 1: combination of coal and steam engine. So you needed the
Speaker 1: steam engines drive coal demand. Then the second one was
Speaker 1: the automobile. It drove oil demand. Now digitalization and AI
Speaker 1: what they do is they push electricity demand, and in
Speaker 1: particular it's going to be clean electricity, and again clean
Speaker 1: electricity because of the innovation is going on. And my
Speaker 1: own view is that the revolution that we're going through
Speaker 1: now is going to be bigger than the industry revolution either.
Speaker 6: The last two.
Speaker 1: That's how big it is, Okay, And that's why I'm
Speaker 1: sitting here to talk about this. So at this point
Speaker 1: in time, I'm going to stop, and I'm gonna hand
Speaker 1: over and I'm gonna go hand over the Tashi and
Speaker 1: hear his views from a systemic level about what's going
Speaker 1: on in the energy space and a particular electricity.
Speaker 6: Okay, thank you.
Speaker 7: First of all, let me talk about that he toutually
Speaker 7: the social renovation business first, and he dutchly promoting the
Speaker 7: social innovation business, which is the providing integito of the
Speaker 7: infrastructure such as a railway system or partay system. By
Speaker 7: liberating digital technology all over the wall.
Speaker 6: That means he actually.
Speaker 7: Has the capability of the developing the AI. Also the
Speaker 7: nuclear power brands and something like that. You mentioned how
Speaker 7: to combine with the creating energy and how to make
Speaker 7: the people happy. This is one of the very important
Speaker 7: social innovation targets and the status is a committity to
Speaker 7: tolving the social challenges, including the carbon neutrality very important.
Speaker 7: We have to solve this kind of THEOTO emission we
Speaker 7: have to reduce all over the world. Is a very
Speaker 7: ardent program. And also recently you mentioned that zerative AI
Speaker 7: has become an increasingly wide spread and the other result
Speaker 7: the energy consumption that in data center increasingly the adoption
Speaker 7: of the ZERATIVEI is expected to accelerate even further.
Speaker 6: So we have to solve this issue.
Speaker 7: Everybody uses GENERATIVEI and also we have to reduce a
Speaker 7: COEO too. We have to provide a sustainable power supply,
Speaker 7: shorting the carbon new drug. We have to solve these
Speaker 7: kind of houristic program from the surprise side and demand side. Also,
Speaker 7: the power transition solution is very important and the HIT
Speaker 7: Act provide the rom the solution surprise side.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you very much, Elizabeth. You come from Norway,
Speaker 1: and if I look at Norway, Norway is really at
Speaker 1: the forefront of electrifying as energy system. And I mean
Speaker 1: you've been doing it for a longline in a sense
Speaker 1: of heat, but now in terms of transport, construction, etcetera, etcetera.
Speaker 1: You're all at the forefront. So tell me a little
Speaker 1: bit about your experiences and what are the challenges now
Speaker 1: as a grid operator.
Speaker 8: It's a funny thing that you say that we are
Speaker 8: in the front, because it's just natural to us. We've
Speaker 8: had hydropower for many many years now. All the houses
Speaker 8: use electricity for heating, and then they have been doing
Speaker 8: for many many years. In twenty ten, we launched a
Speaker 8: strategy in start Net. We called it the future is
Speaker 8: Electric and everybody laughed at us, not thinking about that
Speaker 8: they were using electricity already.
Speaker 4: But we have been totally dependent.
Speaker 8: On oil and gas. Of course huge incomes to the
Speaker 8: whole Norway, but they didn't believe ring an electric future.
Speaker 8: Just before Christmas, we launch a new strategy calling it
Speaker 8: Electrification for a New Era. And in this strategy because
Speaker 8: we have seen the demand from twenty eighteen and we
Speaker 8: are in no position to meet this demand at the moment,
Speaker 8: even in Norway, and they are all very angry with
Speaker 8: us because we are irresponsible to meet this demand. As
Speaker 8: we say we who are irresponsible for the grid, that
Speaker 8: there will not be any transition without transmission, and I
Speaker 8: think people sometimes forget that. So what we're doing at
Speaker 8: the moment is to really use technology to get the
Speaker 8: most out of the grid and the power system we
Speaker 8: are operating today. And why we're doing that, we're planning
Speaker 8: and constructing a whole new transmission grid. Also in Norway.
Speaker 8: We are really well off before because we have been
Speaker 8: constructing and reconstructing a transmission green from twenty ten. But
Speaker 8: now it's getting really.
Speaker 2: Old that transmission grid.
Speaker 8: In Norway and the demand is huge. Another issue and
Speaker 8: I think we share that with all of the world
Speaker 8: and the Europe, is that we must be working on
Speaker 8: the energy security and accelerate that. And the third prioritized
Speaker 8: area in this strategy is to enhance the resilience of
Speaker 8: the power system we have today, both in operation and development.
Speaker 8: And we mustn't forget that Europe is the world's most
Speaker 8: interconnected houses. If something goes wrong in one region, if
Speaker 8: we don't have a really resilient and robust power system,
Speaker 8: it will that impact on the whole well Europe and
Speaker 8: the neighboring Ragians Andrews.
Speaker 1: Maybe just to follow on from that, can we talk
Speaker 1: about energy security? How do you help her and grid
Speaker 1: operators in that whole energy security resilienary because the whole
Speaker 1: point is without electricity, we can't do anything simple as that.
Speaker 9: I think it's an interesting question and point, and I
Speaker 9: think you're completely righted as it is, until a couple
Speaker 9: of years before, energy security and safety was and either
Speaker 9: completely ignored or just seen as a technical term. What
Speaker 9: happens if an overheadline is falling down. The whole thing
Speaker 9: has become a complete new dimension. And one aspect why
Speaker 9: we see so much renewable as well growing at the
Speaker 9: moment is that the point of energy security and safety
Speaker 9: has read from a different angle. If I don't sitting
Speaker 9: on coal, oil or gas and depa and then from imports.
Speaker 9: And I don't want to beat the dependent from imports.
Speaker 9: We have seen what can happen oil and gases. That's
Speaker 9: why definitely going down, even in countries which have been
Speaker 9: traditionally big role importers like China and India. India has
Speaker 9: a clear strategy to get rid of all imports of
Speaker 9: oil and gas in the near future. That's one hundred
Speaker 9: eighty billion price ticket and rely on renewable because the
Speaker 9: sun is always local and the wind is always local.
Speaker 9: But of course it's not only that angle, which we
Speaker 9: could discuss as well. As Elizabeth stated her net is
Speaker 9: we are stretched to say it mildly, may be overloaded,
Speaker 9: it's aging, it's creating issues as well as well. How
Speaker 9: to make that more reliant and more resilient in a
Speaker 9: technical way as well, and actually, yes, building new things
Speaker 9: when we're doing it together, that's one thing, but it
Speaker 9: takes longer than expected.
Speaker 2: It needs assets which are rare.
Speaker 9: We have to use it and OT to do that
Speaker 9: as well, looking at the assets, how they are loaded,
Speaker 9: how they are used. THEII can play a good role
Speaker 9: understanding better the consumption pattern, forecasting wealth are really looking
Speaker 9: into the future and really going through all levels and
Speaker 9: details on that. On the other hand, the installed base
Speaker 9: what we have as an industry is huge, and it's
Speaker 9: not used and operated always in the most intelligent way.
Speaker 9: We are still in a way that after a couple
Speaker 9: of years we exchanged a lot of the transformer because
Speaker 9: we say so, we're not looking into it. Was the
Speaker 9: transformer really use that much in that time? Do we
Speaker 9: really have to do that and have an outage can
Speaker 9: be used maybe a predictive maintenance to forecast which part
Speaker 9: should be exchanged when and maybe even in addition, even
Speaker 9: they have not failed because avoid every kind of single
Speaker 9: technical outage or issue makes the grid more reliable and
Speaker 9: more resilient. Of course, connecting coming to the way and
Speaker 9: what you said about Europe is the biggest connected grid
Speaker 9: in the world. You can much more resilient if connecting
Speaker 9: it differently, not on AC but on DC you have
Speaker 9: no interactions from one country to another. I think it's
Speaker 9: a complete new level and ironically I wouldn't even say
Speaker 9: what you said, Jerard. Yes, the age of electricity as
Speaker 9: it called by the IA is fueled by AI meant electrification.
Speaker 9: Of course on the other end, I will contribute a
Speaker 9: big part to solve that will will deal with the
Speaker 9: challenges of today and tomorrow. That makes it good, more resilient,
Speaker 9: more safer, and more cheaper. It works in both ends,
Speaker 9: which I think is good news.
Speaker 1: Can I go back to what we actually started with,
Speaker 1: which was energy supersychled I said it was an energy
Speaker 1: super it's electricity supercycle. What's your own opinions and what
Speaker 1: does it mean for your business and how you see
Speaker 1: it going forward?
Speaker 8: We will say that we are in the middle of
Speaker 8: our transition. I believe that we are just in the
Speaker 8: beginning of the transition and revolution or a superciching. And
Speaker 8: we always say that twenty thirty is today, in twenty
Speaker 8: fifties tomorrow, so we are always in a hurry. I
Speaker 8: think we need to approach it as a society and
Speaker 8: both between together with our suppliers as well, and in
Speaker 8: a very holistic way, and we need to rethink how
Speaker 8: we collaborate in a very different way, because we need
Speaker 8: to lean in and share the risks and share the
Speaker 8: cost because we have no time to sit around and
Speaker 8: wait for someone else to dig in and do the
Speaker 8: job for us.
Speaker 6: Tashi, how do you look at it. Elizabeth mentioned the
Speaker 6: houristic thinking.
Speaker 7: I think this is very important keyword because the take
Speaker 7: for instance, the recentry. It is very difficult to concider about,
Speaker 7: for example, carbon neutrality and the Sakia economy, nature polity,
Speaker 7: these are seem to be the different issue. But we
Speaker 7: should consider about houristic. I mean, in order to achieve
Speaker 7: the carbon neutrality, soaker economy is very important. How to
Speaker 7: minimum you know, Mattia, your input and we use the
Speaker 7: products again and the material again. It is a very
Speaker 7: important we can reduce energy. Also we have to consider
Speaker 7: about the nature positive. So we should consider about a
Speaker 7: total houristic solution is important. Energy security, we should use
Speaker 7: everything that's a renewable energy, new career, tamer park plant
Speaker 7: and this is the core combustions technology we should use
Speaker 7: ver then and considered about the holistic.
Speaker 6: That is a key word.
Speaker 1: Andrews ifa a look at your business. It seems like
Speaker 1: it's a huge opportunity in Frontier.
Speaker 6: So do you get out of the bed every day excited?
Speaker 6: And what does it mean for you guys going forward?
Speaker 9: And of course we'll be excited about the age of
Speaker 9: electricity and the super cycle. We not only believe in it,
Speaker 9: we feed it and we know it's coming, and were
Speaker 9: in the middle of that. On the other end, you
Speaker 9: have to consider where we are coming from as an industry,
Speaker 9: in touch energy and all the others. For twenty years,
Speaker 9: actually we were fighting for survival and the decision of
Speaker 9: the day was which factory we are closing tomorrow, in
Speaker 9: which we are not closing tomorrow. So and now we
Speaker 9: are in that complete different situation. So the organization is
Speaker 9: feeling a little bit like a couch potato sitting in
Speaker 9: front of the TV, having one package of ships after
Speaker 9: the other, and one morning somebody is coming there. Look,
Speaker 9: you start running. You're starting running a marathon there without training.
Speaker 9: You can train while you run. So the organization is stressed. Yes,
Speaker 9: we're investing heavily six billion euros, but we have to
Speaker 9: hire fifteen thousand people in three years. We have to
Speaker 9: train them, we have to add them, we have to
Speaker 9: learn how to produce efficiently because we were never running
Speaker 9: on three shifts in the last fifteen twenty years.
Speaker 2: That creates other problems.
Speaker 9: So is it a good problem to have, definitely, because
Speaker 9: the other side of the medal was not good neither.
Speaker 9: But of course it is a huge undertaking for us.
Speaker 9: There are huge challenges, quality issues, delivery issues. We are
Speaker 9: dealing with people and our customers have to be with
Speaker 9: us and we cannot set it for everybody. But yeah,
Speaker 9: that's the huge ENDEVA, and it's really be good to
Speaker 9: be in that industry at this time, especially if we're
Speaker 9: doing it really for the gat good. You know, the
Speaker 9: electricity revolution on transition will only happen if we can
Speaker 9: supply equipment and if you're using our existing equipment better
Speaker 9: and efficiently.
Speaker 6: Very good.
Speaker 3: Well on that note, well, j'ah, I listened to your panel,
Speaker 3: and there's a world that really pops out all the time.
Speaker 2: Is holistic holistic?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah holistic, Yeah, take a holistic
Speaker 5: view of it. Well, actually, it is important to take
Speaker 5: a holistic view because it's complex, this energy transition. If
Speaker 5: you don't look at it from the top, then you'll
Speaker 5: just make very serious mistakes and it costs a lot
Speaker 5: more money than what we wanted to be.
Speaker 3: So there was also a very interesting metaphor from Andreas
Speaker 3: where he said that the industry had to go from
Speaker 3: couch potato to running a marathon. A lot of those
Speaker 3: industries have lost the mussile memory of growth. That's probably
Speaker 3: why you see all those delays and surprising problem, it's
Speaker 3: just because now they need to go into growth mode.
Speaker 5: Well, Andrew said something very interesting, which was they needs
Speaker 5: to hire. Ask what's greatest challenge was he needs to
Speaker 5: hire fifteen thousand people over the next few years.
Speaker 6: To forget.
Speaker 5: If you've been in the quick business for the last
Speaker 5: twenty twenty five years, you've been basically focused on optimizing costs,
Speaker 5: closing factories, restructuring, and now suddenly you're in growth mode.
Speaker 5: And as you said, you know they've just lost the
Speaker 5: ability to do this.
Speaker 3: Finally, AI AI AI. Everybody must have been talking about
Speaker 3: AI and a few days after your session comes Deep
Speaker 3: Seek and one trillion dollar value is removed from all
Speaker 3: those AI stocks. So when something is the zeitgeist in devils,
Speaker 3: isn't the time to sell?
Speaker 2: You know what?
Speaker 4: The talk though, was in.
Speaker 5: And around at davas, around the I'm talking about around
Speaker 5: the tech community was in and around energy efficiency and
Speaker 5: that there was going to be improvements there and let's
Speaker 5: peak there out wrong.
Speaker 4: We remember we had the head of Google's energy team
Speaker 4: on our podcast and he made the.
Speaker 5: Same point, which was that we will see energy efficiency
Speaker 5: games and we are.
Speaker 4: So the talk there in Davos was not.
Speaker 5: Really about oh, there's going to be a bull wind energy.
Speaker 5: It was more what impact is AI going to have
Speaker 5: in the greater world. That was more the talk that
Speaker 5: was there. And actually I would say most of what
Speaker 5: I got out was positive shader the words it's going
Speaker 5: to be really good in terms of the whole medical field,
Speaker 5: in terms of longevity, it's going to speed up innovation.
Speaker 4: I got positive things in terms of AI out of it.
Speaker 3: You're being reinvited, which is not really my case sometimes
Speaker 3: when I go with confronts, well, I just have to.
Speaker 4: Be nice to everybody for the next year. So I
Speaker 4: don't know if I'm going to manage to do that
Speaker 4: or not.
Speaker 3: Okay, so we're going to conclude this podcast on a
Speaker 3: high note. Douvles is great. We love Deuvos, We love
Speaker 3: Doubas all right by frid Okay, cheers, talk to you
Speaker 3: next week.
Speaker 4: Bye bye friend, bye bye friend.
Speaker 2: Speech you next week.
Speaker 4: Thank you for listening to Redefining Energy.
Speaker 1: Don't forget to rate the show and subscribe on Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: Spotify for the platform of your choice.