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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the deep dive. This week, we are

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diving into something really quite extraordinary, a cosmic coincidence, you

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might say.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely raised a lot of eyebrows.

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Speaker 1: We've got sources detailing this astonishing situation. Two highly unusual

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objects showing up near the Sun practically well within the

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same week.

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Speaker 2: It's incredibly rare, like really really rare. I think finding

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two I don't know unique diamonds in the same spot

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in a river just doesn't happen often.

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Speaker 1: Right, So let's break them down. What are these visitors?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so first there's three ia halas. Now this one's

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confirmed interstellar. It definitely came from outside our solar system.

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That's huge news on its own.

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Speaker 1: Okay, interstellar got it.

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Speaker 2: Then almost at the same time, we get C twenty

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twenty five V one, discovered super recently November two, actually

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by Gnati Borisov. He's a really sharp amateur.

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Speaker 1: Astronomer boresof Yeah, he found the last interstellar commet too, right.

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Speaker 2: That's the one. And this new object C twenty twenty

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five V one, it's well, it's barely hanging onto the

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Sun gravitationally like just bare meaning it's almost interstellar itself.

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It almost certainly fell in from the Orc cloud, the

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really really distant edge of our solar system.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's set the stage here for you, the listener.

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Our goal today isn't just to you know, look at

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space rocks. We want to dig into what makes these

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things tick.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, analyze their properties.

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Speaker 1: And explore this big debate. Are they natural commets maybe

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or could one or maybe even both be something else? Technology?

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Speaker 2: It's huge question and it forces us to think about well,

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life beyond Earth.

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Speaker 1: So we're jumping straight into a real cosmic detective story here.

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Speaker 2: And the first big clue, the thing that really flags

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three it laws as an outsider, is its speed. It's

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moving at an incredible sixty kilometers every second.

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Speaker 1: Sixty kilometers a second. Okay, that sounds fast, but put

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that in perspective for us.

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Speaker 2: Well, the sources often say it's like six hundred times

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faster than the fastest car, which is true, but maybe

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not helpful it right, think about Earth, We're orbiting the

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Sun about thirty kilometers per second. This thing is going

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twice as fast as our entire planet.

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Speaker 1: Twice Earth speed. Wow.

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Speaker 2: And crucially, it's faster than the Sun's escape velocity where

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it is right now.

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Speaker 1: Escape velocity, that's the speed needed to break free.

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Speaker 2: Right exactly. If you're slower than that, the Sun grabs you,

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pulls you into an orbit and a lips usually like

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a planet or a normal comet.

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Speaker 1: But three Iatael is faster.

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Speaker 2: Much faster, so its path isn't closed. It's what astronomers

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call a hyperbolic trajectory, hyperbolic meaning it's an open path,

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mathematically open. It comes in, swings around the Sun, gets

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a little gravitational kick maybe, and then it just keeps

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going out forever, never coming back.

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Speaker 1: And that speed, that trajectory, that's the proof it's interstellar.

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Speaker 2: It's the smoking gun absolutely confirms it's not from around here.

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Now see twenty twenty five v one. The other one

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totally different story. It's moving fast but a just under

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escape velocity, so it is bound to the Sun barely,

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just barely, which tells us it probably came from the

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oort cloud like we said, but technically it's still belongs

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to us system.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so two very different characters here. Three italis the

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intercellar speedster on its way out and ce twenty twenty

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five V one the long distance traveler from our own backyard,

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the Orc cloud just barely captured.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, profoundly distinct origins and fates really appearing.

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Speaker 1: Near the Sun close together in time. Let's dig into

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those origins a bit more. C. Twenty twenty five V one.

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Speaker 2: First, right, So C. Twenty twenty five v one is

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on this really steep plunging path towards the Sun. That

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suggests something gave it a big nudge a long long

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time ago, like what could have been a passing star,

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maybe a giant molecular cloud drifting by out near the

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Ork Cloud. Something disturbed its very slow, distant orbit and

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sent it falling inwards.

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Speaker 1: But its path is still technically an ellipse, just a

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really long, skinny.

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Speaker 2: One, exactly super elongated, but still closed. It belongs to

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the Sun three iaetis.

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Speaker 1: Though completely different rules apply totally.

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Speaker 2: It owes no loyalty to our Sun. It's just passing through,

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using the Sun as a sort of gravitational turning point.

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Speaker 1: Which brings us right to that massive question everyone must

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have asked immediately, Are they related?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, that was the first thing, you know, the

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cosmic detective question could C. Twenty twenty five v one

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have somehow come from three IA lists.

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Speaker 1: How would that even work?

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Speaker 2: Well, if three ia list is just a big natural comet,

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maybe the journey stressed it out, or the Sun's heat

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caused it to break apart. Perhaps a big chunk got

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knocked off and.

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Speaker 1: That chunk went onto a slightly different, slower path, one

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that got captured by the Sun.

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Speaker 2: That's one possibility, yeah, a lost fragment scenario.

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Speaker 1: Okay, But then there's the other possibility, a technological one.

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Speaker 2: Right, And if you go down that road, the connection

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could be much more deliberate.

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Speaker 1: Like if three I eight lists was some kind of mothership.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, it could have released a smaller probe. Maybe C

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twenty twenty five V one isn't a rock at all,

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but some kind of scout sent into the inner Solar

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System for a closer look, perhaps specifically at us or

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the rocky planets.

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Speaker 1: That's well, that's a much wilder idea, it is.

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Speaker 2: It's alluring. But you know, as scientists, we have to

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start with the simplest explanation, standard physics, passive gravity.

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Speaker 1: And what does standard gravity say.

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Speaker 2: It says probably not almost certainly not related, A resounding no.

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Speaker 1: Really, Why so definitive.

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Speaker 2: It comes down to the geometry their orbital paths. Their

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planes in space are almost perpendicular to each other.

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Speaker 1: Perpendicular like ones flat and the other's coming straight down

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pretty much.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, imagine the flat plane of Earth's orbit. That's roughly

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where three I at loss is moving now picture C

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twenty twenty five V one slicing through that plane at

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almost a ninety degree angle. Okay, for two objects that

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supposedly started together like a comet and its fragment, to

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end up on such radically different inclinations, it just doesn't

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work naturally.

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Speaker 1: You need some kind of massive, specific push at the

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exact moment they.

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Speaker 2: Separated exactly, a huge, perfectly aimed kick, highly highly improbable

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if it's just gravity and fragmentation doing the work.

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Speaker 1: Any other evidence against the link.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, their closest approach, even if you calculate back in

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time this these two objects ever got to each other,

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was still about one hundred million kilometers.

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Speaker 1: One hundred million kilometers. That's huge. It's like two thirds

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of distance from Earth to the Sun.

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Speaker 2: Right, way too far apart to suggest they just broke

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up recently or had some local interaction. So based only

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on gravity, the consensus is clear. Sheer coincidence, monumental, but

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still a coincidence.

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Speaker 1: And I have to push back a bit here this

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technological loophole. Isn't that just you know, wishful thinking. We're

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ditching predictable gravity because the coincidence feels too neat. Isn't

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that bad science? A violating Aukham's razor.

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Speaker 2: That's a really important challenge. And you're right, we have

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to be careful. If they look like rocks, assume they're rocks, right,

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simplest explanation. Yeah, But the loophole isn't just desire. It

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comes from knowing that technology can break those rules. We

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humans have built spacecraft Voyager for instance.

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Speaker 1: Right, Voyager's trajectory wasn't purely gravitation. We use Jupiter for.

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Speaker 2: A boost exactly, we maneuvered it. An alien observer seeing Voyager,

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who only assumed gravity was a play would be baffled

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by its path. So when we see an object confirmed

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to be from outside our.

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Speaker 1: System, we can't automatically rule out that it might be engineered.

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Speaker 2: We can't because engineering allows for non gravitational forces propulsion maneuvering.

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Speaker 1: So a natural object has to follow the fragmentation physics

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making those perpendicular paths basically impossible pretty much. But a

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spacecraft could have thrusters. It could actively change its course,

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moving from one trajectory to another that was completely unrelated

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if you only consider gravity.

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Speaker 2: That's the caveat A ship could bridge that gap. It

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could make two distinct paths appear connected. So while gravity

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says no connection, the possibility of technology means we can't

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be one hundred percent certain. Yet we need more data,

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non gravitational data.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about time, because the time scals involved

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here are just mind bending. Let's start with the local

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one see twenty twenty five V one from the Ord Cloud.

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How long did it take to get here?

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Speaker 2: First, you gotta appreciate the Orc cloud itself. It's this

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enormous sphere of icy stuff surrounding everything else in the

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Solar System. Its edge is maybe one hundred thousand times

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farther out than Earth is from the Sun one.

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Speaker 1: Hundred thousand au. That's almost incomprehensibly far. Isn't the nearest

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star only like four times farther than that?

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Speaker 2: Roughly? Yeah, Proximusentaria is around two hundred and seventy thousand AU,

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So the ork cloud fills a huge chunk of the

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space between us and the next star. It's the Sun's

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outermost domain.

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Speaker 1: The true deep freeze suburbs. Okay, So traveling from way

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out there one hundred thousand AU into the inner Solar

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system where we see C. Twenty twenty five V one. Now,

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how long does that journey take?

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Speaker 2: Calculations based on its current speed and how the Sun's

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gravity would have pulled it in suggest it took about

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eight thousand years.

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Speaker 1: Eight thousand years, just floating inwards.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much in darkness, an incredible.

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Speaker 1: Cold and context for eight thousand years. That's basically the

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entire span of human recorded history, right, like writing, agriculture, cities,

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all it stuff start around that roughly.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so this icy object has been falling towards the

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Sun for as long as human civilization as we know

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it has existed.

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Speaker 1: That's quite a thought. But cosmically speaking, eight thousand years

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is nothing.

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Speaker 2: It's a blink. The Sun's been around four point six

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billion years. Eight thousand is just noise level, but it

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grounds us in the vastness, even within our own system.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Now, pivot to the real outsider three eyeautlists. We

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don't know what's home star where it came from, But

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the sources say its speed tells us something about its age,

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potentially a very, very old age.

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Speaker 2: This is one of the coolest bits of deduction. I

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think if, and it's if three iyeautlists is a natural object,

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a piece of rock and ice, then it's crazy speed

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sixty kilometers acts like a galactic clock or maybe a

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galactic odometer. See objects in the galaxy don't usually start

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out that fast. They get sped up over time gravitational kicks.

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They fly in your massive stars, drift through dense nebulae,

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interact with other things over billions of years each which

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close pass can give them a little gravitational nudge a

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boost in speed.

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Speaker 1: So the longer something's been wandering the galaxy, the more

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kicks it's likely received, the faster it's probably going exactly.

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Speaker 2: It's statistical, of course, but generally higher speeds imply older origins.

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The objects have had more time to get bounced around

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the galactic pinball machine.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So applying that logic to three i atlas's speed,

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how old might it be?

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Speaker 2: The calculations based on galactic dynamics suggests it likely came

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from a star system or population of stars that formed

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maybe seven to ten billion years ago.

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Speaker 1: Seven to ten billion yep. But our sun is only

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four point six billion years old precisely.

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Speaker 2: This object could be debris from a star system that

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was born, lived, and maybe even died long before our

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own sun and planets even started to coalesce.

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Speaker 1: It could be older than the Earth, significantly older.

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Speaker 2: Potentially, it might have formed when the Milky Way itself

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looked quite different. It's a relic from galactic deep time. C.

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Twenty twenty five V one travels eight thousand years human history.

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Three ia lefts might have traveled for billions of years

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galactic history.

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Speaker 1: The difference is just staggering. Yeah, But then we bring

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back the technology possibility the riddle.

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Speaker 2: And if it is technology, all those age calculations based

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on gravitational kicks they just evaporate. Why because the space

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that doesn't need billions of years of random kicks to

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get up to sixty kilometers. It could have powerful engines.

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Speaker 1: So the journey time tells us nothing about its age

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if it's artificial.

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Speaker 2: Correct, if the senders were nearby, maybe just a few

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light years away, and they had advanced propulsions, solar sales

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fusion drives. Who knows. The trip could have been relatively short, decades,

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maybe centuries.

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Speaker 1: They might have launched it quite recently, aimed it at

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us even.

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Speaker 2: It's possible, or the other extreme.

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Speaker 1: The cosmic archaeology scenario.

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Speaker 2: Right if the senders were far away, or if they

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used slow patient propulsion or just aimed it into a

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region of space hoping it would eventually encounter something. It

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could still be billions of years old.

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Speaker 1: An ancient probe launched by a civilization that vanished.

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Speaker 2: Eon ago could be Imagine designing something to survive interstellar space.

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The radiation, the dust impacts for billions of years. The

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material science alone would be incredible.

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Speaker 1: So it could be a time capsule from before Earth existed.

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Either way, natural or artificial, it carries this immense sense

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of time. Is it ancient geology or ancient engineering? That's

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the core question. Okay, so time is ticking, This thing

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is moving fast, It's on its way out. We need answers.

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Is there a key observation window coming up?

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Speaker 2: There is a really important one around December nineteenth. That's

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when three I aklist makes its closest approach to Earth.

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How close still pretty far in everyday terms, about two

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hundred and fifty million kilometers. That's significantly farther than the

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Earth's sun distance.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so not exactly buzzing the tower, No, definitely not.

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Speaker 2: But it's close enough for their very best telescopes, the

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big ones on the ground and space telescopes like Hubble

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or web, if they can be pointed to get a

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much better look. The data we can gather then will

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be way more detailed than what we have now.

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Speaker 1: And we need that detail because recent images have already

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shown something weird, the jet anomaly exactly.

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Speaker 2: Recent images, even though they're not super sharp yet, clearly

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show jets of material streaming away from three i at lists,

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not just one or two, but more than seven distinct jets.

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Speaker 1: Seven jets. And how big are these things?

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Speaker 2: They're not small puffs. They look like enormous elongated plumes.

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The sources suggest they could be extending for millions of

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kilometers out from the object.

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Speaker 1: Millions of kilometers. That's visualize that. That's like multiple times

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the distance to the Moon just streaming off this thing.

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Speaker 2: It's visually stunning, yeah, like massive contrails in space. And

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this immediately brings our two main hypotheses head to head.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Hypothesis one the natural explanation, that's.

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Speaker 2: The default for anything with a tail or jets. It's

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a comet. These jets are just pockets of ice trapped

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inside the rock, water, ice, CO two, ice, whatever.

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Speaker 1: And the sun heats them up right.

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Speaker 2: As it gets closer to the sun, the ice gets

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warm enough to sublimate, turns straight from solid eyes into gas.

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That gas bursts out, creating a jet. It's natural outgas set.

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Speaker 1: Okay, standard comet behavior basically.

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Speaker 2: But hypothesis too. Hypothesis two says these aren't random ice vents,

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they're technological. They're thrusters on a spacecraft, maybe for attitude control,

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maybe for slight course corrections, maybe remnants of its main drive.

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Speaker 1: Engineered propulsion, not natural venting.

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Speaker 2: That's the idea. And this is where we can move

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from just looking to actually measuring something decisive.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is crucial. How do we tell the difference

305
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sunwarmed ice versus an advanced alien engine? What's the key measurement?

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Speaker 2: It comes down to the speed of the gas and

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the jets, the expulsion velocity.

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Speaker 1: How fast is the stuff coming out?

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Speaker 2: Exactly? Natural sublimation driven just by sunlight warming ice creates

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pretty slow jets relatively speaking, We're talking maybe a few

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hundred meters per second, perhaps up to one or two

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kilometers per second for really volatile stuff. Still quite slow cosmically.

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Speaker 1: Okay, slow for natural jets. What about technology?

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Speaker 2: Technological thrusters, especially anything advanced enough for inter dollar travel,

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ion drives, plasma engines, maybe even something more exotic. They

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work by throwing propelling out really fast. That's how you

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get thrust efficiently.

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Speaker 1: So much higher speeds, Oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: We'd expect speeds of tens, maybe even hundreds of kilometers

320
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per second. There's a huge, unmistakable difference in velocity between

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gentle ice sublimation and engineered rocket exhaust.

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Speaker 1: So the test on December nineteenth is basically measure the

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speed of the gas in those jets. If it's slow,

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say five hundred meters per second.

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Speaker 2: It's behaving like a commet natural explanation hole.

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Speaker 1: But if it's fast, say twenty kilometers per.

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Speaker 2: Second, then we're very likely looking at technology. That speed

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is incredibly hard, probably impossible to explain with just sublimating ice.

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Speaker 1: That feels like a very clean, decisive test. How do

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they measure that?

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Speaker 2: Speed from so far away spectroscopy. They'll look at the

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light coming from the gas and the jets and spread

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it out into a spectrum like a rainbow. Okay, gas

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is absorbed and emit light at very specific frequence, creating

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lines in the spectrum. If the gas is moving towards

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us or away from us, those lines get shifted slightly.

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It's the Doppler effect.

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Speaker 1: Like the sound of an ambulance siren changing pitch.

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Speaker 2: Exactly the same principle, but with light. Measuring how much

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those spectral lines are shifted blue shifted if moving towards us,

341
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red shifted if moving away. Tells you the velocity directly.

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Speaker 1: That's brilliant. So we should have a pretty definitive answer

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soon after those December observations.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully, Yes, that's the plant.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Before we move on, we have to quickly touch

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on the scary part mentioned in the sources. This existential

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threat thing three iolas is passing safely, we know that,

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but if something this size.

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Speaker 2: Hit earth, Yeah, the sources are clear an impact from

350
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an object like three ee lass, assuming it's fairly solid

351
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and maybe a kilometer or so across, would be catasophic,

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utterly devastating.

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Speaker 1: On what scale?

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Speaker 2: Think chicks a lub. The impact that wiped out the

355
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dinosaurs sixty six million years ago.

356
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Speaker 1: That was an asteroid roughly the size of Manhattan right now.

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Speaker 2: Around that size, yeah, maybe ten kilometers cross. The energy

358
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released was like billions of atomic bombs. It caused global earthquakes,

359
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tsunamis miles high, and threw so much dust and soot

360
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into the atmosphere.

361
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Speaker 1: Impact winter, blocked sunlight, collapse food.

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Speaker 2: Chains, exactly a mass extinction event. If three IIL has

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hit us, we'd be looking at something very similar, potentially

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the end of civilization, maybe even humanity.

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Speaker 1: Sobering stuff. A good reminder why tracking these things, even

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the ones passing by, is so critical. But again, to

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be clear, three ILIES is passing safely at two hundred

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and fifty million kilometers.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely no threat from this particular object.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this whole discussion feels like these interstellar visitors are

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incredibly rare events, but the science, the modeling, suggests maybe

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they're not. This brings us to the quadrillion calculation. That

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number just sounds insane.

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Speaker 2: It does sound insane, but it comes from pretty straightforward geometry. Actually,

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the key is realizing how small our detection zone is.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean?

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Speaker 2: We really only see these things when they come into

378
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the inner Solar system them roughly inside Earth's orbit. That's

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where the sun lights them up enough, and where our

380
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telescopes are mostly looking.

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Speaker 1: Okay, a small detection bubble.

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00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,119
Speaker 2: Tiny compared to the whole Solar system out to the

383
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Ork Cloud, which stretches out one hundred thousand times farther.

384
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So the physics models look at how often we see

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something like three I eight less pop into our little

386
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,920
detection bubble. Then they ask, based on that rate, how

387
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,400
many must be drifting through the entire volume of the

388
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Solar system at any given time, And the answer is

389
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a quadrillion. That's one followed by fifteen zeros. For everyone

390
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,279
we see near Earth, there are likely a quadrillion similar

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00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,960
objects currently within the boundaries of the Ork Cloud.

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Speaker 1: A quadrillion? Yeah, how how is that possible? What drives

393
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:44,799
that number?

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Speaker 2: It's the simple brutal math of volume volume scales with

395
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the cube of the radius. Our detection zone is like

396
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,839
a tiny ball bearing inside a sphere with a radius

397
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,519
one hundred thousand times larger.

398
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Speaker 1: You take that distance factor one hundred thousand.

399
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,799
Speaker 2: And you cube it one hundred thousand, one hundred thousand

400
00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:03,000
times one hundred thousand. That gives you one hundred and

401
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,480
fifteen a quadrillion. The vast emptiness beyond Neptune is just

402
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,559
astronomically larger than the space where we can actually see

403
00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:11,519
these things easily.

404
00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:14,680
Speaker 1: So the Solar System is just constantly full of unseen

405
00:19:14,839 --> 00:19:15,759
interstellar traffic.

406
00:19:15,839 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 2: That's what the number implies. A quadrillion rocks, bits of ice,

407
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,720
and maybe other things are out there right now, mostly

408
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:24,599
invisible to us.

409
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 1: That changes everything. It means stuff moving between stars isn't rare,

410
00:19:29,079 --> 00:19:32,839
it's the norm. The galaxy must be constantly exchanging material.

411
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Speaker 2: Absolutely. It has huge implications for panspermia, life spreading on meteorites,

412
00:19:37,559 --> 00:19:40,559
for how heavy elements get distributed. The galaxy is a

413
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giant mixing bowl, which.

414
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Speaker 1: Brings us back to that nagging problem scientific bias. If

415
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,680
there are potentially quadrillions of these things out there, some natural,

416
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,920
maybe some artificial, why is it so hard to get

417
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,319
scientists to seriously consider the technology angle.

418
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,119
Speaker 2: It's a real challenge, and it often comes down to well,

419
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,559
how science works specialization. The sources use a great analogy

420
00:19:59,559 --> 00:20:02,680
in AI system imagine you train an AI only on

421
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data about commets, pictures of comets orbits of commets, spectra

422
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,359
of commets, nothing else. Then you show it three iedls.

423
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What's it going to say.

424
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Speaker 1: It's going to say commet. That's all it knows exactly.

425
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 2: It's training data limits its conclusions. Comet experts, in a way,

426
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,119
can be like that AI. They've spent their careers studying

427
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,039
natural objects, so their default, their framework is to assume

428
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everything is a natural object.

429
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,559
Speaker 1: Their expertise becomes a kind of blinder.

430
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Speaker 2: It can. But here's the thing. That bias isn't really

431
00:20:31,839 --> 00:20:36,160
sustainable anymore, because we have already put technological objects into

432
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,079
interstellar space. Voyager one in two.

433
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Speaker 1: They're out there.

434
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,880
Speaker 2: So if some alien astronomers detected Voyager one, they'd be

435
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,279
wrong to just assume it must be a weirdly shaped rock.

436
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,160
They'd have to consider technology. So why shouldn't we do

437
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,799
the same when something comes visiting us? We need to

438
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expand our training data to include the possibility of technology.

439
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 1: Okay, but let me play Devil's advocate again. If historically

440
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,119
ninety nine point nine percent of things we've seen our

441
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,119
natural commets or asteroids isn't it just efficient and practical

442
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,000
to assume. The next one is too, Why spend precious

443
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,279
telescope time and grant money chasing a tiny, tiny possibility

444
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resources are limited.

445
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Speaker 2: That's a perfectly fair question from a purely academic probability standpoint,

446
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But this is where the perspective shifts, especially when you

447
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,799
think about government or say, intelligence agencies. So they don't

448
00:21:25,839 --> 00:21:29,160
operate just on probability. They operate on risk assessment. They

449
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,119
have to take low probability high impact events seriously.

450
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Speaker 1: Like a terrorist attack or a pandemic, or maybe an

451
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:36,720
alien spacecraft.

452
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Speaker 2: Precisely, the consequences of it being technology are so enormous,

453
00:21:39,799 --> 00:21:42,599
potentially civilization altering, that you can't ignore it just because

454
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:43,799
the probability seems low.

455
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Speaker 1: So even if it's a one in a million chance,

456
00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:47,799
the million part is so huge you have to check.

457
00:21:48,079 --> 00:21:51,519
Speaker 2: You absolutely have to check. You gather the maximum possible

458
00:21:51,599 --> 00:21:54,559
data to be sure you confirm it's just a rock.

459
00:21:54,759 --> 00:21:58,000
You don't assume the cost of being wrong, of missing

460
00:21:58,079 --> 00:22:02,200
it is potentially infinite. That risk assessment logic is why

461
00:22:02,279 --> 00:22:05,839
we can't just dismiss the technological hypothesis out of hand, which.

462
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Speaker 1: Makes the next part of this story even more infuriating

463
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,720
the real world example of bureaucracy getting in the way

464
00:22:11,759 --> 00:22:15,519
of gathering that exact data. The NASA shut down issue.

465
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that was incredibly frustrating for everyone involved. So

466
00:22:19,599 --> 00:22:22,319
the high rise camera on the Mars Orconnaissance Orbiter MRO

467
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actually got an image of three ILS high rise.

468
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Speaker 1: Is that super sharp camera usually looking at Mars right.

469
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing resolution. But here's the catch. The sources clarify

470
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three ILS was two hundred and fifty million kilometers away.

471
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,559
Even for high rise at that distance, the object was

472
00:22:37,599 --> 00:22:39,759
probably just a pixel or maybe a tiny blob a

473
00:22:39,759 --> 00:22:43,640
few pixels across. The resolution wasn't like seeing surface features.

474
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,279
Speaker 1: Oh it wasn't a sharp image in that sense. Then

475
00:22:45,279 --> 00:22:46,319
why was it so important?

476
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 2: Because even a few pixels tell you things. It helps

477
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,519
absolutely nail down the object's precise position, which is critical

478
00:22:53,559 --> 00:22:57,000
for aiming other more sensitive telescopes later. It could maybe

479
00:22:57,079 --> 00:23:00,119
hint at the shape. Is it perfectly round or elongated?

480
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,960
Is it tumbling? That basic data helps plan the crucial

481
00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:05,359
follow up observations.

482
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: Okay, so vital preliminary data. An MRO took this image

483
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,599
when October.

484
00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:13,799
Speaker 2: Three, which happened to be just two days after a

485
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,559
US government shutdown began, and because of the inflexible rules

486
00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:21,200
about shutdowns, non essential workstops systems might be locked down.

487
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,799
NASA stated they were unable to process and release that

488
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:25,839
high rise data.

489
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,559
Speaker 1: So the data, the potentially crucial pointing data for telescopes

490
00:23:29,599 --> 00:23:32,720
around the world trying to observe this unique object, was

491
00:23:32,759 --> 00:23:34,839
stuck on a server somewhere because of paperwork.

492
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 2: Essentially yes held hostage by administrative procedure. Scientists needed that

493
00:23:39,279 --> 00:23:42,160
data now to refine their plans for the December close approach.

494
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,720
Waiting ricks or months makes a huge difference when your

495
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,240
target is moving fast and observation windows are short.

496
00:23:47,319 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 1: It actively hampered.

497
00:23:48,279 --> 00:23:53,079
Speaker 2: The science absolutely. It delayed planning, wasted precious time, potentially

498
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,119
compromised the quality of future observations. As the source put it,

499
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,319
bureaucracies should serve science, not apotage it. It was a

500
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,240
perfect example of inflexible rules hindering our ability to answer

501
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,480
one of the biggest questions we could possibly ask.

502
00:24:07,559 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: Okay, so the frustration with bias, the urgency of these visitors,

503
00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:14,759
it hasn't just led to complaining, it's actually starked action.

504
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,079
There are now dedicated projects trying to scientifically hunt for

505
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,240
non human technology. The most prominent is the Galileo Project.

506
00:24:23,559 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: What got that started, it was really a direct response

507
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:29,440
to all those official government reports we started hearing about

508
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,400
a few years ago, you know, the Pentagon intelligence agencies

509
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,359
finally briefing Congress openly about UFOs or UAPs as they.

510
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,599
Speaker 1: Call them now, unidentified aerial phenomena. Right.

511
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 2: The fact that these briefings were happening, that the government

512
00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:43,359
was admitting there were things in our skies they couldn't identify,

513
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,599
forced everyone to confront two main possibilities.

514
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,799
Speaker 1: Possibility one national security threat exactly.

515
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,559
Speaker 2: Maybe these UAPs are super advanced drones or aircraft built

516
00:24:53,559 --> 00:24:57,160
by Russia or China or someone else. If that's true,

517
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,240
it's deeply worrying. The US spends almost a trillion dollars

518
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,519
a year on defense, and yet there are objects flying

519
00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:08,599
with impunity in restricted airspace that they can't identify. That

520
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,160
suggests a massive intelligence failure or a terrifying technological leap

521
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:14,039
by an adversary.

522
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,799
Speaker 1: Okay, that's the defense angle. But the other interpretation, that's.

523
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,039
Speaker 2: The one that really drives the science and the Galileo

524
00:25:20,079 --> 00:25:23,079
project interpretation too. These things are not human made. They

525
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,119
come from somewhere else, extraterrestrial, non human intelligence.

526
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: Eight. If that's true, then.

527
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 2: As the source says, it's instantly the single most important

528
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,640
discovery humanity is ever made. Period. It changes everything about

529
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:36,799
our place in the universe.

530
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: So the Galileo Project was set up to tackle that

531
00:25:39,319 --> 00:25:42,359
question head on, using actual science.

532
00:25:42,039 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: Precisely, to move beyond blurry photos and anecdotal accounts and

533
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:50,319
bring rigorous, systematic scientific methods to identifying these UAPs.

534
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,519
Speaker 1: How are they actually doing that. What's the practical work?

535
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,079
Speaker 2: It's multi pronged. First, they're building their own observatories. They

536
00:25:56,079 --> 00:25:58,640
have three running now. I believe these aren't looking at

537
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,000
distant stars. Their point at our own sky two hundred

538
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:02,680
and forty.

539
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,759
Speaker 1: Seven, constantly watching for anything unusual.

540
00:26:04,839 --> 00:26:07,599
Speaker 2: The goal is to monitor millions of objects every year.

541
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,720
And these observatories aren't just simple cameras. They're packed with

542
00:26:10,799 --> 00:26:15,440
sensors like what hyras optical cameras, sure, but also infrared

543
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,160
cameras to see heat signatures, radar to get precise speed,

544
00:26:19,319 --> 00:26:23,359
distance and acceleration data, radio sensors to listen for any

545
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:28,519
signals they want. Data across the electromagnetic spectrum all gathered

546
00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:30,559
simultaneously on the same object.

547
00:26:30,839 --> 00:26:33,559
Speaker 1: That must generate a mountain of data. How do they

548
00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:36,160
find the needle in the haystack, the truly weird stuff

549
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,279
among all the planes, birds, satellites, weather balloons.

550
00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 2: Machine learning, sophisticated software sifts through the data flood. It's

551
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,240
been trained to recognize the signatures of all the known

552
00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:47,839
mundane stuff.

553
00:26:47,519 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: So it filters out the noise.

554
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,559
Speaker 2: Exactly, and it's specifically looking for flight characteristics that just

555
00:26:52,599 --> 00:26:56,319
don't match human technology. Things like extreme acceleration, pulling g

556
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,319
forces that would crush a pilot or tear part in aircraft,

557
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,920
sun changes in direction that seemed to defy inertia, or

558
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,759
maybe moving seamlessly between air and water, trans medium travel.

559
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,319
Speaker 1: Stuff that seems to break our known physics or engineering limits.

560
00:27:10,559 --> 00:27:13,799
Speaker 2: That's the target signature physics we don't understand yet, or

561
00:27:13,839 --> 00:27:16,599
engineering afar beyond ours. But they're not just looking up,

562
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,039
they're also looking down, even under the ocean.

563
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: Ah, this is the Interstellar Meteor expedition. Tell us about that.

564
00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was fascinating. Back in twenty fourteen, a meteor

565
00:27:25,759 --> 00:27:29,240
hit the Earth, burning up over the Pacific Ocean. Years later,

566
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,640
trajectory data analyzed by US Space Command confirmed something amazing.

567
00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:36,359
This meteor came from outside the Solar System.

568
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: It was interstellar, the first known interstellar object to actually

569
00:27:40,079 --> 00:27:40,599
hit Earth.

570
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 2: Verified interstellar object. Yes, So the Galilea project team mounted

571
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,720
an expedition. They went to the likely impact zone off

572
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:48,839
the coast of Papla, New.

573
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,079
Speaker 1: Guinea to do what find pieces exactly?

574
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,319
Speaker 2: They used powerful magnets on a sled, dragging it across

575
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,480
the ocean floor, trying to pick up tiny metallic spherules.

576
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,240
These are like millimia sized droplets that formed when the

577
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:05,519
meteor vaporized in the atmosphere and then rained down like.

578
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: Tiny fragments of the original object. Must have been like

579
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,359
finding needles in an underwater haystack.

580
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 2: Incredibly difficult. Yeah, filtering tiny magnetic beads from tons of

581
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,400
volcanic ocean sediment.

582
00:28:16,519 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: And why collect these specific fragments? What are they looking for?

583
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,839
Speaker 2: They're analyzing the composition isotopically shows trace elements. They want

584
00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:26,680
to see if the material looks like typical Solar System stuff,

585
00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:30,279
or if it has anomalies, maybe unusual element ratios, or

586
00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:36,279
perhaps evidence of alloys or materials far stronger than natural iron, nickel, meteorites.

587
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: Looking for signs that it wasn't just a rock, but

588
00:28:38,119 --> 00:28:42,119
maybe a piece of tech, a tiny probe that hit us.

589
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 2: That's the ultimate question they're asking with those samples. Could

590
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,079
this interstellar visitor have been artificial?

591
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,319
Speaker 1: Wow? So they're scanning the skies and dredging the ocean floor.

592
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:51,599
That's serious commitment.

593
00:28:52,119 --> 00:28:55,279
Speaker 2: What drives that, the sources mentioned, the core motivation is

594
00:28:55,359 --> 00:29:00,599
just fundamental curiosity, that childhood curiosities. They put it, desire

595
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,640
to know what's out there? Are we alone? It's the

596
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,839
biggest detective story imaginable, and.

597
00:29:05,759 --> 00:29:08,839
Speaker 1: There's a reward beyond just the data, apparently, something about

598
00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:10,200
inspiring people. Yeah.

599
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 2: The project lead mentioned getting emails from parents saying that

600
00:29:13,759 --> 00:29:16,920
following this real life science mystery, this search for answers

601
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:21,759
about UAPs and interstellar objects, has gotten their kids, particularly daughters,

602
00:29:21,839 --> 00:29:25,319
excited about science, wanting to become scientists themselves.

603
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: So this cosmic detective work, it actually connects back and

604
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,279
inspires the next generation.

605
00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:32,319
Speaker 2: It seems. So it shows that there are still huge

606
00:29:32,559 --> 00:29:35,839
fundamental questions out there to be explored, and science is

607
00:29:35,839 --> 00:29:38,640
the tool to do it. Hashtag tag outro okay.

608
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,039
Speaker 1: So wrapping this deep dive up. What are the big

609
00:29:41,079 --> 00:29:43,720
takeaways for you the listener. We've gone from the sheer

610
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,680
speed of three Alis, defining it as interstellar.

611
00:29:47,319 --> 00:29:50,079
Speaker 2: To that mind blowing quadrillion number, the idea that our

612
00:29:50,119 --> 00:29:54,160
Solar system is likely teeming with unseen visitors, constantly mixing

613
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,000
the galactic neighborhood we've seen.

614
00:29:56,279 --> 00:29:59,759
Speaker 1: There's a clear decisive test coming soon for three iaglist's

615
00:29:59,839 --> 00:30:04,279
je that measurement of gas speed around December nineteenth. It

616
00:30:04,279 --> 00:30:08,119
could tell us definitively if it's natural or technological, right.

617
00:30:08,039 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: Comet or spacecraft. The velocity holds the key.

618
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,119
Speaker 1: And we've really wrestled with this issue of scientific bias,

619
00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:17,680
the need to broaden our thinking, to accept the technology

620
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,160
as part of the possible data set now because we

621
00:30:20,319 --> 00:30:21,759
ourselves have put it out there.

622
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, challenging that it must be a rock default.

623
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: Which leads to maybe the most profound point. Let's say

624
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,000
the measurement comes back technology. Why should we actually welcome that?

625
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:32,880
Why is that a good thing for humanity?

626
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: Well, the argument is humanity could really use a bose

627
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:36,680
of cosmic modesty.

628
00:30:36,759 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: Cosmic modesty.

629
00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:40,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, we tend to think for the peak, the pinnacle

630
00:30:40,359 --> 00:30:44,559
of intelligence, the center of everything, important discovering we're not alone,

631
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,799
that there are siblings out there among the stars.

632
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,559
Speaker 1: That's humbling, and maybe discovering that some of those siblings are,

633
00:30:50,759 --> 00:30:53,160
as the source puts it, far more accomplished than us.

634
00:30:53,319 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 2: That's the ultimate humility lesson, isn't it. It would instantly

635
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,599
shift our perspective. We stop being the smartest kids in

636
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,519
the classes. Maybe we realize we're just starting kindergarten.

637
00:31:02,599 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: We become the student at the teacher exactly.

638
00:31:04,799 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: And that's an incredible opportunity, a chance to learn, to

639
00:31:08,279 --> 00:31:11,440
see what's possible, to maybe figure out how to solve

640
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,240
some of our own problems by seeing how others might

641
00:31:14,279 --> 00:31:16,880
have done it. It's not necessarily a threat. It's a

642
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,519
potential education on a cosmic scale.

643
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: A chance to learn from a smarter student. I like that.

644
00:31:22,119 --> 00:31:25,279
But this whole journey figuring out three I at lasts

645
00:31:25,319 --> 00:31:29,119
searching for UAPs, it's happening right now, but it's bumping

646
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,400
up against these very human failings like bureaucracy.

647
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: It's the ultimate irony, isn't it. We have the technology,

648
00:31:35,559 --> 00:31:39,000
the scientific method to potentially make the biggest discovery ever.

649
00:31:39,319 --> 00:31:42,680
We can measure gas beads across hundreds of millions of kilometers.

650
00:31:42,759 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: We can aim telescopes with incredible precision.

651
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 2: But then crucial data gets locked away because of a

652
00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:52,319
government shutdown, rule, human systems, human inflexibility getting in the

653
00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:54,039
way of understanding the universe.

654
00:31:54,519 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: So the final thought maybe is, if we really are

655
00:31:57,799 --> 00:32:01,680
looking for siblings among the stars, if the evidence might

656
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,960
be flying past us right now at sixty kilometers a.

657
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,799
Speaker 2: Second, how much vital information are we missing or actively

658
00:32:08,839 --> 00:32:12,160
blocking ourselves from getting through our own biases, our own

659
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,240
rigid systems. Could we be standing in our own way

660
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:18,079
preventing ourselves from making that ultimate discovery?

661
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,359
Speaker 1: Are the biggest hurdles not out there in space but

662
00:32:21,519 --> 00:32:24,759
right here in how we operate. A pretty challenging thought

663
00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:26,880
to end on as we wait for those December results.

664
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: Definitely something to think about.

665
00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:30,839
Speaker 1: That was the deep dive. Thanks for joining us, We'll

666
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:31,640
see you next time.