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<v Speaker 1>This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to KFI

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<v Speaker 1>AM six forty, the Doctor Wendy wallsh Show on demand

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<v Speaker 1>on the iHeartRadio app kf I AM six forty. You

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<v Speaker 1>know doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor

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<v Speaker 1>Wendy Walsh Show. And if you are new to my show,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a psychology professor, but I've written three books on

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<v Speaker 1>relationships and I love to give my opinion on your

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<v Speaker 1>love life because I've been through it all. I'm a

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<v Speaker 1>woman of a certain age, and I promise you I've

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<v Speaker 1>been through most everything myself. If you'd like to call in,

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<v Speaker 1>the number is one eight hundred five two zero one

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<v Speaker 1>five three four. That's one eight hundred five to zero

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<v Speaker 1>one KFI. I'd also like to welcome our Instagram audience.

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<v Speaker 1>If you want to come in the KFI studios, you

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<v Speaker 1>just log onto Instagram. My handle is at doctor Wendy Walsh. Okay, so,

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<v Speaker 1>who do we have? First? Producer k Lax. We have

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<v Speaker 1>Stormy with the question. Stormy. Hi, Stormy, It's doctor Wendy. Hi.

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<v Speaker 1>What's your question? Love? So?

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<v Speaker 2>I think my partner and I've been together for five

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<v Speaker 2>years a little over five years. There was some cheating.

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<v Speaker 3>On my end that I've fully owned up to.

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<v Speaker 1>When was that?

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<v Speaker 2>It was about a year ago?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So you worked together for four years and then

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<v Speaker 1>something was missing for you, and so you had an

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<v Speaker 1>affair a year ago. Is that right?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, things were worked through, we got better, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>promised each other, you know, things were going to be okay.

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<v Speaker 2>And then recently, i'd say, over the past two maybe

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<v Speaker 2>maybe three months, things have just gone really really downhill,

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<v Speaker 2>really fast.

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<v Speaker 1>Describe the relationship going downhill in the last three months.

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<v Speaker 1>And also I want to know how you worked through

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<v Speaker 1>the forgiveness with the affair and the trust issues. Did

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<v Speaker 1>you go to therapy together?

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<v Speaker 4>We did do some therapy together, I would say, with

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<v Speaker 4>me fully owning up to what.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd done, taking full responsibility for it, you know, not

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<v Speaker 2>putting any you know, like it was my fault and

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<v Speaker 2>I know that I shouldn't have done it.

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<v Speaker 3>And there's no excuse for doing that.

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<v Speaker 2>He was really accepting of that, and you know it

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<v Speaker 2>was I guess kind of want to say thankful that

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<v Speaker 2>I did own up.

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<v Speaker 1>To it and he was able to get to a

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<v Speaker 1>place of forgiveness. Yes, And then did you guys, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>always curious about this. What kind of work did you

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<v Speaker 1>do to build trust again? Like did you allow him

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<v Speaker 1>to you know, be mistrustful for a while, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>look in your phone, ask you where you're going? How

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<v Speaker 1>did that part go?

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<v Speaker 2>Well? He never really, I mean he always did that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I mean there was he was never not

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<v Speaker 2>able to do something like that. It give me my phone, and.

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<v Speaker 1>You still managed to have an affair. Yeah, humans are

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<v Speaker 1>very smart. All right, So let's talk about the last

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<v Speaker 1>three months. What has gone downhill? What's happened.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole I want to say, the whole relationship. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>communication has basically ceased. We no longer sleep together. The

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<v Speaker 2>sex life has just gone, I mean like gone.

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<v Speaker 1>And so what precipitated this all of a sudden, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Want to say, kind of maybe got into my own

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<v Speaker 2>mind and thought that because he was so easy to

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like get his trust back. Even after the fair,

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<v Speaker 2>it was as if he was only mad for two

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<v Speaker 2>days and then he was over it. You know, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>he had done something because you know, you can't can't

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<v Speaker 2>really complain if you're doing the same thing type of situation.

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<v Speaker 1>You started to lose trust.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I started to lose trust, and then he began

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<v Speaker 2>to call me insecure over that and that I my

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<v Speaker 2>attitude problems essentially you know, ruined it for him, and

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<v Speaker 2>that he just doesn't want to he's not physically attracted

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<v Speaker 2>to me, and that's ending more.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So I want to say a couple of things.

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<v Speaker 1>One is that an affair is usually a symptom of

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<v Speaker 1>a problem, it's not the problem. And so getting to

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<v Speaker 1>the bottom of whatever your unmet need was that caused

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<v Speaker 1>you to step out on the relationship is should be

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<v Speaker 1>the goal of therapy together. Right. But the second thing is,

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<v Speaker 1>if enough time and you guys haven't worked hard to

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<v Speaker 1>build the trust on both sides, again, all kinds of

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<v Speaker 1>things could be going on unconsciously. I mean, he might

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<v Speaker 1>want to get back at you in some way, some retribution,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know you're right to suspect, well, well, he

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<v Speaker 1>seemed to get over it so quickly. Maybe he's having

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<v Speaker 1>an affair, right, But you guys didn't talk about these things.

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<v Speaker 1>You just let them kind of fester there. So now

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<v Speaker 1>he's saying he's not physically attracted to you, And I

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<v Speaker 1>want you to know that it's not about you and

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<v Speaker 1>your body or your looks. It's what happened in his

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<v Speaker 1>brain because of this lack of trust. So let me

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<v Speaker 1>ask you this, Stormy, what do you want? What do

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<v Speaker 1>you want to have happen?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I want to work things out, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I love it. I bingim for five years now. It's

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<v Speaker 2>it's not anything that I want to lose, but it

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<v Speaker 2>has also caused me to lose some I want to say,

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<v Speaker 2>some attraction towards him as well, you know, the lack

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<v Speaker 2>of intimacy and the relationship. Yeah, I feel like I

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<v Speaker 2>want to I basically have to like beg, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm not a beggar. I don't want to beg.

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<v Speaker 2>It makes me seem very desperate. Yeah, nobody wants to

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<v Speaker 2>see a beggar.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, okay, so here's what you guys. If you're if

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<v Speaker 1>there's any hope of the two of you building the

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<v Speaker 1>trust and intimacy that you had in previous years in

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<v Speaker 1>your relationship, you guys got to get back into couples

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<v Speaker 1>therapy together, and they're probably gonna One of the things

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<v Speaker 1>that they might prescribe is for you not to rush

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<v Speaker 1>into sex with him, but instead get back to just

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<v Speaker 1>cuddling and kissing and touching and just being respectful to

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<v Speaker 1>each other and being open to listening to each other's feelings.

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<v Speaker 1>But if he won't go to therapy, do the two

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<v Speaker 1>of you live together?

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<v Speaker 2>We do?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you live together. He's saying he's not attracted to you.

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<v Speaker 1>If he won't go to therapy, then he got a

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<v Speaker 1>problem because you're basically he's basically breaking up with you

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<v Speaker 1>at that point, and then you've got to decide whether

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<v Speaker 1>to go or not. It's a terrible time. I think

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<v Speaker 1>it can be saved, but only if the two of

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<v Speaker 1>you go to therapy together so that you can work

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<v Speaker 1>on this and storm it. I know how painful this is,

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<v Speaker 1>and thank you so much for calling to share it

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<v Speaker 1>with me.

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<v Speaker 3>That's all.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a hard one. Thank you for calling. All right, Producer, Kayla,

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<v Speaker 1>Who do we have next? We have Nick with a question. Nick. Hi, Nick,

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<v Speaker 1>It's doctor Wendy.

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<v Speaker 3>Hi.

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<v Speaker 5>I don't know if you remember me. I was married,

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<v Speaker 5>I had a foster, my niece and nephew, and then

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<v Speaker 5>after six month year you got a divorce because he

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<v Speaker 5>gave me a yeah.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 5>He gave me an ultimatum between him and the kids.

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<v Speaker 5>But I was just wondering if, like, after you find

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<v Speaker 5>out love, like, is it relevant anymore? Like, you also

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<v Speaker 5>want a connection with someone, like do you like?

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<v Speaker 2>What do you do?

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<v Speaker 5>Just find a mutual agreement between someone?

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, go back to the beginning. You were cut out.

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<v Speaker 1>You said, after you fall out of love, what do

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<v Speaker 1>you do? What did you say?

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so after you kind of like find out love

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<v Speaker 5>isn't relevant anymore?

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<v Speaker 3>If that makes sense?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, Nick, let us break down what your definition of

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<v Speaker 1>love is. Yes, what is it? What does love mean

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<v Speaker 1>to you?

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<v Speaker 5>I mean just someone that's gonna go through anything and

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<v Speaker 5>everything with you.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh huh. And so now the relationship you're in, you don't.

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<v Speaker 5>Trust, not in a relationship, But I don't like I

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<v Speaker 5>do want some type of connection, but like I don't

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<v Speaker 5>want a relationship if that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Huh? So uh what kind of connection would you like? Nick?

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<v Speaker 7>Well, I don't want.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want what the relationship I.

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<v Speaker 5>Had before, where I thought it was like all fairy

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<v Speaker 5>tale endings.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think it's a great thing that we can

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<v Speaker 1>all let go of fairy tale endings. First of all,

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<v Speaker 1>that's a big delusion. Most rom com movies end at

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<v Speaker 1>the very beginning, where the work starts, right, But I

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<v Speaker 1>think that you have this idea that security. You use

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<v Speaker 1>the word love, but then you described feelings of trust

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<v Speaker 1>and security. You tell me that security is irrelevant, or

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<v Speaker 1>maybe you're saying it's not possible. Maybe because of the

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<v Speaker 1>hurt you've been through, you've actually lost faith in whether

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<v Speaker 1>you can find that kind of safety in a relationship. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>is that what I'm hearing?

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, yeah, but like something is important as taking

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<v Speaker 5>care of my nephew and niece, Like seven years of

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<v Speaker 5>relationship just ended because they didn't want to help out

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<v Speaker 5>for a while.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's hard because a few weeks ago, a few

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<v Speaker 1>weeks ago, nick I did a segment on how to

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<v Speaker 1>break up with somebody you're in love with, right, because

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<v Speaker 1>you have different life goals. You realize that somebody is

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<v Speaker 1>on a career path that's not going to make sense

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<v Speaker 1>for you, or somebody wants kids and somebody doesn't want kids,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's when it hurts.

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<v Speaker 7>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>So, first of all, the altruistic and kind, loving thing

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<v Speaker 1>you're doing by being a parent to your niece and

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<v Speaker 1>nephew is so powerful and so important, And there is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be someone out there who will deeply respect

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<v Speaker 1>you and that act of love that you are giving

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<v Speaker 1>every day, and so to dismiss the idea that you

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<v Speaker 1>can ever find somebody who could help out or could

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<v Speaker 1>love and appreciate you for who you are. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think you should give up on love. I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>out there and it will come at the right time.

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<v Speaker 1>But not if you're cynical about love, Nick, because I

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<v Speaker 1>know you have a well of love to give. You've

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<v Speaker 1>called in before, you told us your story. I know

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<v Speaker 1>what a giver you are, and I promise you there's

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<v Speaker 1>somebody out there who gives as much as you do

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<v Speaker 1>or more. Thank you for calling. All right, when we

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<v Speaker 1>come back, I'm going to go to social media. I

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<v Speaker 1>see a lot of dms coming in and answer some

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<v Speaker 1>of your questions from social media. You are listening to

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<v Speaker 1>the Doctor Wendy Show on KFI AM six forty. We're

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<v Speaker 1>live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.

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<v Speaker 7>You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI

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<v Speaker 7>AM six forty.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to.

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<v Speaker 6>The Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on KFI AM six forty,

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<v Speaker 6>Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. I love to go

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<v Speaker 6>to my social media into my DMS because you guys

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<v Speaker 6>write some good stuff, really good questions you send on

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<v Speaker 6>my DMS, and I don't worry if you ever send

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<v Speaker 6>me any during the weekend, do it at anytime.

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<v Speaker 1>The handle is at Dr Wendy Walsh. We mostly check Instagram.

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<v Speaker 1>Kayla looks at it, she'll pull them off. You will

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<v Speaker 1>not be identified on the radio ever. I would never

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<v Speaker 1>out anybody that way. So you can be as honest

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<v Speaker 1>as you like. All Right, Hi, Doctor Wendy says this listener.

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<v Speaker 1>I had a date with a guy about a month ago.

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<v Speaker 1>We text and call every day, but when I try

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<v Speaker 1>to make plans he has excuses. Why does he text

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<v Speaker 1>me every day but won't see me? It's so weird.

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<v Speaker 1>You're gonna hate what I'm gonna say. The answer is

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<v Speaker 1>because you let him. Because you let him. You see,

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<v Speaker 1>we teach people how to treat us. I would turn

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<v Speaker 1>this whole question around and instead of saying why is

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<v Speaker 1>he texting you every day and not wanting to see you?

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<v Speaker 1>I would say why are you responding to texts from

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<v Speaker 1>a guy who doesn't want to see you?

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<v Speaker 6>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>Ask yourself why? I know I know the answer. You're

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<v Speaker 1>in love with Hope, and you think if you're nice

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<v Speaker 1>and sweet and chatty with him, eventually he'll come around

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<v Speaker 1>and get together. No, no, no, no, no, no, this guy,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you why he does it. He likes you

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<v Speaker 1>only he likes you, but he also likes the other

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<v Speaker 1>twenty girls he's texting. I'm making up that number could

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<v Speaker 1>be five, and so he's just when he you know,

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<v Speaker 1>when he has a last minute plan or something, he's

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<v Speaker 1>going to text one of them and go, you up

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<v Speaker 1>or you want to go, I got tickets to this whatever,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's just going to be very He doesn't have

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<v Speaker 1>to do much work, so you need to be the

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<v Speaker 1>woman who disappears and makes him work. We teach people

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<v Speaker 1>how to treat us by our reaction to them, and

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<v Speaker 1>every time you text back, you are giving him permission

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<v Speaker 1>to have a halfway text relationship with you. All Right,

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<v Speaker 1>Dear doctor Wendy, I hope you can help me with this.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll do my best. A new girl i'm seeing is

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<v Speaker 1>from a guy did a background check on me, and

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<v Speaker 1>it brought up that I was arrested back in twenty nineteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Let me do that math. That's five years ago.

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<v Speaker 7>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>She started questioning me about everything that took place, But

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<v Speaker 1>I've grown so much since then. However, I still got

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<v Speaker 1>defensive and I even cursed at her. I regret this

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<v Speaker 1>so much. How do I own up to my past

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<v Speaker 1>mistakes and not act out when they are brought up?

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<v Speaker 1>So this message goes to everybody who's listening, who has

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<v Speaker 1>anything in their past that they regret or that they

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<v Speaker 1>learned from. It is the feeling of shame, and shame

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<v Speaker 1>is only dangerous to us when it is when the

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<v Speaker 1>trauma has been unprocessed. Right, Once you process whatever you've

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<v Speaker 1>been through and understand it, make a narrative and a

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<v Speaker 1>story about it, be comfortable with yourself and the lessons

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<v Speaker 1>you've learned because of it. Whatever this thing is, then

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<v Speaker 1>you can talk about it freely. If you followed me

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<v Speaker 1>for a lot of years, you know that I have

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<v Speaker 1>been everything that ever existed, from a mistress to a

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<v Speaker 1>living girlfriend, to a wife, to a divorcee to a

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<v Speaker 1>victim of domestic domestic violence. I have been a victim

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<v Speaker 1>of rape. I can talk about it because I spent

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<v Speaker 1>all those years in therapy crying about it, processing all

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<v Speaker 1>those feelings. Right, So you're going to get to a point,

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<v Speaker 1>hopefully where you can say, yeah, I made a big

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<v Speaker 1>mistake and I was given a huge lesson to learn,

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<v Speaker 1>and I am not that person. You know my own husband,

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<v Speaker 1>if you've again follow me, you already know this. If

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<v Speaker 1>you'reknew to this show, My own husband served a year

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<v Speaker 1>of incarceration in his life, and he told me about

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<v Speaker 1>it on our very first coffee date. And while I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to know every detail, I was more curious. And

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<v Speaker 1>he calls it understanding and empathetic more than accusatory. But

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<v Speaker 1>you have to understand that the people, most of the

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<v Speaker 1>people that you're going to be telling the story to,

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<v Speaker 1>whatever it is that happened in your past, it might

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<v Speaker 1>just it might be incarceration, it might be something else

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<v Speaker 1>that happened to you or something you did. Those other

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<v Speaker 1>people have their own shame, and sometimes by you telling

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<v Speaker 1>your story, it ignore and it's their shame. But guess what,

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<v Speaker 1>that's their problem, it's not yours. Because you've processed it,

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<v Speaker 1>you've gone through it, you're able to talk about it.

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<v Speaker 1>You can quite honestly say how you've grown. And in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the best ways to talk about shame is

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<v Speaker 1>to say the words, you know, I feel really ashamed

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes about this It's also okay to have boundaries, especially

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<v Speaker 1>if it's a first date. You could say something like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I have some feelings of embarrassment and shame

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<v Speaker 1>about this, and you do deserve an explanation. And when

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<v Speaker 1>I know you better, hopefully I can share with you

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<v Speaker 1>all the details of that. That's called having a boundary.

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<v Speaker 1>You can do that too. Thank you for writing, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry you're going through this all right, Dear doctor Wendy.

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<v Speaker 1>I have a problem. Every time I have a new partner,

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<v Speaker 1>I find their X. How do you find their X?

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<v Speaker 1>I guess on social media or whatever? Okay, and compare

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<v Speaker 1>myself to them. And then she writes in caps, every

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<v Speaker 1>single time I was cheated on in every relationship I

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<v Speaker 1>was in with their ex. Oh my, well, now I

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<v Speaker 1>do this with all relationships, and I essentially self sabotage.

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<v Speaker 1>How can I heal through this? Well, you're gonna call

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<v Speaker 1>a licensed therapist and you've got to work through your

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<v Speaker 1>issues because there's something going on and you're unconscious here.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what it is what I'm telling you,

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<v Speaker 1>You know, the unconscious knows what it's going for I

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<v Speaker 1>always say, if we have some kind of trauma, in

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<v Speaker 1>our early childhood, in our adult romantic lies, we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to go right back to the scene of the crime.

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<v Speaker 1>We will unconsciously be like But they're so different. They're

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<v Speaker 1>totally different. They have a different career than the last

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<v Speaker 1>person I dated, they're a different age, they're a different race,

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<v Speaker 1>they drive a different car. Uh uh. The romantic dynamic dynamics,

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<v Speaker 1>the attachment style is all going to be the same.

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<v Speaker 1>So if your conflict is that you are cheated on

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<v Speaker 1>by their ex, a good therapist can help you go

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<v Speaker 1>through your childhood with a fine tooth comb and be

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<v Speaker 1>able to figure out where the root of that pain

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<v Speaker 1>really began, and then help you, like consciously go I

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<v Speaker 1>don't need to choose this this time. I've processed it,

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<v Speaker 1>I've been through it. I don't really need to choose it.

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<v Speaker 1>But it is a bit of a long road. But

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<v Speaker 1>I promise you it's not that every guy out there

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<v Speaker 1>who's an ex has an X he's going to get

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<v Speaker 1>back with. It's that you find him, and you unconsciously

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<v Speaker 1>need to find My fingers are making quotation marks when

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<v Speaker 1>I say need to find them, because you're trying to

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<v Speaker 1>resolve something from your childhood. So really talk to a

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<v Speaker 1>licensed therapist. In your case, I might recommend somebody who's

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<v Speaker 1>more psychoanalytical and cognitive behavioral. But that's because this sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like it's an early life thing. To me, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>Good luck to you. Oh my gosh, how time flies

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<v Speaker 1>when you're having fun. Listen. Part of being in love

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<v Speaker 1>is also losing love, whether it's divorce, a breakup, or

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<v Speaker 1>whether you lose a long term spouse because they passed away.

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<v Speaker 1>When we come back, I have a very special guest

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<v Speaker 1>who's going to share her personal story of loss and

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<v Speaker 1>also what we can all do to learn how to

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<v Speaker 1>grieve in a more healthy way. You are listening to

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<v Speaker 1>the Doctor Andy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty

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<v Speaker 1>were live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.

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<v Speaker 7>You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI

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<v Speaker 7>AM six forty.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Doctor Andy Walls Show on KFI

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<v Speaker 1>AM six forty, Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the things I teach is developmental psychology, and

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<v Speaker 1>part of human development is growth and dealing with all

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<v Speaker 1>the changes that happen with growth and even aging, and

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<v Speaker 1>also maintenance maintaining our good mental health, maintaining our physical health,

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<v Speaker 1>but also loss, because life is also about loss, and

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<v Speaker 1>not knowing how to deal with loss. Not knowing how

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<v Speaker 1>to grieve can obviously impact your mental health, but even

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<v Speaker 1>your physical health. I would like to introduce a special

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<v Speaker 1>guest today. I think you've been on the show before,

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Ava Cadell. Hi, Doctor Cadell, how are you. I'm good.

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<v Speaker 3>Hi, doctor Wendy. Yes, I was in the studio many

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<v Speaker 3>years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm sure we were talking about sex, because you

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<v Speaker 1>are the queen when it comes to sexology. Doctor Ava Cadell,

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<v Speaker 1>if you don't remember, is a clinical sexologist and a

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<v Speaker 1>sex certified sex counselor, and she is a founder of

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<v Speaker 1>something called love Ology University, an online university for love coaching,

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<v Speaker 1>as also a private practice. Deals with everything from the

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<v Speaker 1>most common mismatched sex drives to power struggles, infidelity, orgasm barriers,

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<v Speaker 1>fear of intimacy, sexual compulsion, sexual healing, et cetera. However,

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<v Speaker 1>I always say, doctor Ava, people think I talk about

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<v Speaker 1>sex a lot on this show, but I do not

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<v Speaker 1>talk about sex. I talk about relationship dynamics, and if

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<v Speaker 1>I ever talk about sex, it's only in the context

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<v Speaker 1>of relationship dynamics and how things sort of come out sexually.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, People seem to, you know, focus on the sex part.

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<v Speaker 3>It's still taboo enough that it makes such a big

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<v Speaker 3>impact on people that that's all they remember.

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<v Speaker 2>It's funny.

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<v Speaker 1>And I bet when they come to you as clients,

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<v Speaker 1>they come with a sex issue and you're able to

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<v Speaker 1>drill it down to the relationship issue that caused it.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, yes, and actually it usually has nothing to do

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<v Speaker 3>with sex. It's basically communication. It's a lack of you

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<v Speaker 3>boundaries and just into it communication so that they speak

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<v Speaker 3>the same language, you know, whether they're left brain or

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<v Speaker 3>predominantly right brain. But sex is part of it, but

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<v Speaker 3>it's not all of it, as you well know, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I always say it's sort of the symptom often for

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<v Speaker 1>something else. So so you know, people listen to me

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<v Speaker 1>because I talk a lot about how to fall in love,

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<v Speaker 1>how to have healthy love, how to have healthy communication.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't talk enough about loss, but whether it's divorce,

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<v Speaker 1>or whether it's a breakup with your boyfriend or girlfriend,

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<v Speaker 1>or whether it's grieving the loss of a loved one

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<v Speaker 1>who's passed. Doctor Ava Cadell, You've had some very experiential

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<v Speaker 1>learning in this area. Do you want to tell us

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<v Speaker 1>about it?

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, And strangely enough, I have evolved into becoming more

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<v Speaker 3>of a heala than a sexologist because of my own experience.

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<v Speaker 3>And that was that my beloved husband, who I was

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<v Speaker 3>with for twenty seven years, he passed away, and nobody

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<v Speaker 3>prepares you for that, and so it was so traumatic

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<v Speaker 3>for me, even though I knew it was going to

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<v Speaker 3>happen because he had cancer, that when he did pass

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<v Speaker 3>away and when I watched him take his last breath,

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<v Speaker 3>I could not get that vision out of my mind. Well,

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<v Speaker 3>I never will, and my heart still has a whole

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<v Speaker 3>where I love him so much. But I've managed to

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<v Speaker 3>heal myself and so now I have this healing program

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<v Speaker 3>where I love to help others to heal, you know, mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually,

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<v Speaker 3>and even sexually.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, we've actually had many guests, or not guests,

423
00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:39.160
<v Speaker 1>but callers, listeners of our show call in with this issue,

424
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:43.680
<v Speaker 1>this sort of complicated grieving, especially after a very very

425
00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:49.759
<v Speaker 1>long relationship. Help us understand how a committed, intimate romantic

426
00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:52.599
<v Speaker 1>relationship becomes a part of your identity, not just your

427
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.920
<v Speaker 1>social identity, but your sense of self? Can you explain that?

428
00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:00.279
<v Speaker 3>Well, First of all, intimacy has really nothing to do

429
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:04.640
<v Speaker 3>with sex. I've discovered that I thought it did for

430
00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:10.440
<v Speaker 3>twenty years actually, But intimacy is much more important, much

431
00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:17.960
<v Speaker 3>more lasting, and truly helps us with empowerment and enlightenment

432
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:23.839
<v Speaker 3>as human beings. And so after you lose somebody, you

433
00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:28.039
<v Speaker 3>have to you have to grieve, and there's no right

434
00:24:28.119 --> 00:24:31.480
<v Speaker 3>or wrong way for grieving. And so I explored every

435
00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:36.920
<v Speaker 3>way that I could, using pet therapy and humor and

436
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:41.920
<v Speaker 3>water and music and crystals. And we're so individual, just

437
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.799
<v Speaker 3>like our fingerprints, that we need to help everybody listening

438
00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:49.599
<v Speaker 3>to the show, because there's not one cookie cutter solution

439
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:54.440
<v Speaker 3>for all the people who are grieving today who've lost someone,

440
00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:58.119
<v Speaker 3>As you said, not just by death, but a divorce

441
00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:01.039
<v Speaker 3>can be even worse than death some people.

442
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:04.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh, especially if you're seeing them on social media, if

443
00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:07.599
<v Speaker 1>you're still seeing friends who are giving you news of them.

444
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:10.880
<v Speaker 1>It's like having the ghost of your marriage around you

445
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:13.599
<v Speaker 1>at all times while you're trying to get over it.

446
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:17.279
<v Speaker 1>It can be particularly difficult. But our when I when

447
00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:20.519
<v Speaker 1>I talked about our identity, I have you know, I

448
00:25:20.599 --> 00:25:22.359
<v Speaker 1>just got married like six weeks ago.

449
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:24.680
<v Speaker 3>Alculation, thank you.

450
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:28.160
<v Speaker 1>So exciting, although we've been together for four years, but

451
00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:33.119
<v Speaker 1>to have this experience where I'm now functioning to call

452
00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:36.079
<v Speaker 1>it as half a brain, meaning that we've kind of

453
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:40.519
<v Speaker 1>united in you know, our division of emotional labor, our

454
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:44.359
<v Speaker 1>division of intellectual labor, obviously, our division of household labor

455
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:47.480
<v Speaker 1>has all taken this burden off me because I was

456
00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:52.160
<v Speaker 1>doing everything. And I realize the benefits of being in

457
00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:56.839
<v Speaker 1>a long term, intimate, committed relationship. But I think to myself,

458
00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:59.599
<v Speaker 1>if anything ever happened to him, I would feel like

459
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:02.319
<v Speaker 1>half a me had died. Did you have that feeling

460
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:03.519
<v Speaker 1>when you lost your husband?

461
00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:08.039
<v Speaker 3>So, yes, this is very interesting what you're saying. However,

462
00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:11.480
<v Speaker 3>my husband and I had a very unique marriage in

463
00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:16.640
<v Speaker 3>that he had his identity as a very powerful, successful attorney,

464
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:20.519
<v Speaker 3>and then I had my identity, you know, as a

465
00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:24.240
<v Speaker 3>love sex doctor who traveled around the world lecturing, and

466
00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:27.720
<v Speaker 3>then we had the identity of us together. And that

467
00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:30.279
<v Speaker 3>was wonderful because he took such good care of me

468
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:34.880
<v Speaker 3>and I felt very nurtured, and I lost all of

469
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:38.799
<v Speaker 3>that when he died. So since then, it's been challenging

470
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:44.160
<v Speaker 3>for me because I have to do everything myself. I

471
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:49.799
<v Speaker 3>have to be, you know, completely independent, and I'm trying

472
00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:51.480
<v Speaker 3>to like it.

473
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:53.640
<v Speaker 1>It's like, all of a sudden, you have this whole

474
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:55.920
<v Speaker 1>other job. I remember years ago a friend of mine

475
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:58.000
<v Speaker 1>lost her husband and she came to it. She was

476
00:26:58.160 --> 00:26:59.920
<v Speaker 1>a work colleague and she came to work and she goes.

477
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:03.839
<v Speaker 1>I never knew that he watered the lawn. My lawn

478
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:06.119
<v Speaker 1>is dead now. I didn't even know, like when did

479
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:09.039
<v Speaker 1>he do that on a regular But there is like

480
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:11.599
<v Speaker 1>literal stuff. Hey, we have to go to a break,

481
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:14.920
<v Speaker 1>doctor Cadell. When we come back, let's really do some

482
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:17.559
<v Speaker 1>news you can use for people who may be dealing

483
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:22.599
<v Speaker 1>with loss. Things they should do, things they probably shouldn't

484
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:26.759
<v Speaker 1>do to help heal themselves. You are listening to Doctor

485
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:29.079
<v Speaker 1>Wendy Walsh The Doctor Wendy Walls Show. My guest is

486
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:34.079
<v Speaker 1>doctor Ava Caddell. We are live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.

487
00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:38.480
<v Speaker 7>You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI

488
00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:39.599
<v Speaker 7>AM six forty.

489
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Hullo, Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on

490
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:46.480
<v Speaker 1>KFI AM six forty, Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.

491
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:51.039
<v Speaker 1>My guest doctor Ava Cadell is a world famous clinical sexologist,

492
00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:54.960
<v Speaker 1>but she herself has been dealing with loss because of

493
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:58.359
<v Speaker 1>the loss of her husband after twenty seven years. How

494
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:00.880
<v Speaker 1>long has it been since he passed away to gidel.

495
00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:05.400
<v Speaker 3>Well, this year is actually his tenth anniversary, and I

496
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:08.400
<v Speaker 3>finally got his book published, which is a promise I

497
00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:13.240
<v Speaker 3>made to him before he passed away. I'm actually celebrating this.

498
00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:15.640
<v Speaker 1>This is the first thing we should say that people

499
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.599
<v Speaker 1>can go to the KFI website KFI six forty dot

500
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:21.559
<v Speaker 1>com search doctor Wendy Walsh, and we're going to have

501
00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:25.279
<v Speaker 1>information on his book, so you can. You mentioned he

502
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:27.279
<v Speaker 1>was a powerful attorney, so I'm sure it's filled with

503
00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:29.599
<v Speaker 1>lots of juicy Hollywood secrets as well.

504
00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:32.799
<v Speaker 3>It is. It's well, Blood and Justice on the sunset strip.

505
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:36.720
<v Speaker 1>Oh wonderful. So let's talk about in the early days

506
00:28:36.759 --> 00:28:39.680
<v Speaker 1>of dealing with this loss, what were the things that

507
00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:43.200
<v Speaker 1>you would not recommend that people do. Maybe things you tried.

508
00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:48.400
<v Speaker 3>Well, I would not recommend dating right away.

509
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:49.440
<v Speaker 1>Why is this.

510
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:55.400
<v Speaker 3>Because you're trying to replace someone who's not replaceable, Because

511
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:57.960
<v Speaker 3>you're trying to numb the pain and that's not the

512
00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:02.000
<v Speaker 3>way to heal, and you want to surround yourself with

513
00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:06.119
<v Speaker 3>loving people, not complete strangers who just want to maybe

514
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:09.039
<v Speaker 3>have sex with you. It's really the worst thing you

515
00:29:09.079 --> 00:29:10.559
<v Speaker 3>can possibly do. You know.

516
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:13.559
<v Speaker 1>Years ago, I went on a date from a dating

517
00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:16.759
<v Speaker 1>app with a gentleman who had lost his wife. I

518
00:29:16.759 --> 00:29:19.960
<v Speaker 1>think in the you know, maybe close to a year before,

519
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:23.160
<v Speaker 1>maybe ten months or something before. And for the entire

520
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:28.039
<v Speaker 1>two hours he talked about her. I was a good listener,

521
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:31.480
<v Speaker 1>it was a good stories. But at the end, I

522
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:33.599
<v Speaker 1>was like, he hasn't asked me one thing about me.

523
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:37.119
<v Speaker 1>You know, he was still in mourning and I was

524
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:40.119
<v Speaker 1>there as witness to his grieving. So I understand what

525
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:42.519
<v Speaker 1>you mean. It was way too early for him to

526
00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:44.920
<v Speaker 1>be out there dating, that's for sure. Okay, what else

527
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:47.240
<v Speaker 1>should people not do?

528
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:51.079
<v Speaker 3>Don't get rid of all his or her clothes immediately

529
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:54.440
<v Speaker 3>and all their belongings. Don't give everything away or sell everything?

530
00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:55.279
<v Speaker 1>Oh why is that?

531
00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:01.279
<v Speaker 3>You will regret it. It's something that people do when

532
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.680
<v Speaker 3>they're still in shocks. They even get rid of their bed,

533
00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:08.240
<v Speaker 3>they get rid of everything, their photos because they think

534
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:11.839
<v Speaker 3>they're on a time limit to stop breathing, and there

535
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:12.880
<v Speaker 3>is no time limit.

536
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:16.680
<v Speaker 1>It's so interesting, So go ahead, go ahead, tell your story.

537
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:20.000
<v Speaker 3>First, I had a client who his wife died and

538
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:22.480
<v Speaker 3>he left her clothes in the closet for two years.

539
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:24.920
<v Speaker 3>But there's nothing wrong with that.

540
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.920
<v Speaker 1>And then he was ready, Yeah, and then he was ready,

541
00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:30.200
<v Speaker 1>as a friend of mine said, when they lost their

542
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:32.559
<v Speaker 1>father and they kept his closet intach for quite a while.

543
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:33.960
<v Speaker 1>At a certain point they had to give rid to

544
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:38.799
<v Speaker 1>the shoes. They were stinking. But you know, it's funny

545
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:41.880
<v Speaker 1>you say this because when I was thirty, both my

546
00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:45.160
<v Speaker 1>parents died in one year breast cancer, lung cancer, bad year,

547
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:49.519
<v Speaker 1>and my aunts showed up when I think when my

548
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:53.400
<v Speaker 1>mother died, yes, and literally went through her closet, packed

549
00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:55.920
<v Speaker 1>up everything, sent stuff for the good Will, all in

550
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:57.920
<v Speaker 1>one weekend because they were coming from out of town

551
00:30:57.960 --> 00:30:59.960
<v Speaker 1>and they had to get their flights. And I was

552
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:03.319
<v Speaker 1>paralyzed emotionally and physically. There is no way I could

553
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:06.759
<v Speaker 1>figure out to do all this. And by Monday morning,

554
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:09.079
<v Speaker 1>like the funeral was Saturday, by Monday morning, her whole

555
00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:11.200
<v Speaker 1>life was packed up and gone. And I see what

556
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:14.440
<v Speaker 1>you mean, because I'll sometimes say, where did that little

557
00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:17.200
<v Speaker 1>painting go that she did? Where is that little piece

558
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:21.920
<v Speaker 1>of jewelry? And gone? Just yes, yeah, okay, So what

559
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:24.920
<v Speaker 1>should people do if they're grieving. What's some good advice

560
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:25.440
<v Speaker 1>that works now?

561
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:30.079
<v Speaker 3>Number one is to practice self care because grief can

562
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:36.680
<v Speaker 3>cause appetite loss or overeating, sleeplessness, lack of energy, difficult concentrating,

563
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:39.599
<v Speaker 3>So you need to really strive to eat as well

564
00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:43.240
<v Speaker 3>bounced diet and rest and exercise and talk to your

565
00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:47.519
<v Speaker 3>doctor and talk to close friends and just be good

566
00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:51.359
<v Speaker 3>to yourself. It's the most important thing. If there's only

567
00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:53.200
<v Speaker 3>one thing you do, it's self care.

568
00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:57.759
<v Speaker 1>I know you mentioned dating, Probably not a good idea.

569
00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:02.160
<v Speaker 1>What about socialized and social support at that time?

570
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:09.200
<v Speaker 3>Interesting? Yes, and no, go out and socialize, but don't

571
00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:14.559
<v Speaker 3>talk about your grieving because people will stop inviting you.

572
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:17.920
<v Speaker 3>I know that sounds so callous, but I've seen it many,

573
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:21.480
<v Speaker 3>many times. You can choose one person who you know

574
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:24.039
<v Speaker 3>and talk about it, or find someone else who also

575
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:27.880
<v Speaker 3>perhaps has lost someone, But to talk about it to

576
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:34.680
<v Speaker 3>everybody can actually be quite embarrassing, and it's just something

577
00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:36.000
<v Speaker 3>that I don't recommend.

578
00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:40.160
<v Speaker 1>And if somebody is an extrovert like me and externally processes,

579
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:42.880
<v Speaker 1>then this is a time to talk to a therapist, right.

580
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:49.119
<v Speaker 3>Oh, yes, a therapist. Close friends, you know, people who

581
00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:52.799
<v Speaker 3>may be in your temple or your church. Yes, talk

582
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:56.920
<v Speaker 3>to people who listen, who want to listen, and welcome

583
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:00.720
<v Speaker 3>the support of others. In fact, surround yourself with people

584
00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:04.720
<v Speaker 3>who do love and care for you, and please allow

585
00:33:04.839 --> 00:33:08.440
<v Speaker 3>them to help you with everything. That's another thing that

586
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:12.359
<v Speaker 3>some people they punish themselves and they think, oh my gosh,

587
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:14.319
<v Speaker 3>I've got to take care of my legal matters, I've

588
00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:16.279
<v Speaker 3>got to do these tasks, I've got to do that,

589
00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:22.359
<v Speaker 3>and they become overwhelmed and sometimes they have panic attacks

590
00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:27.039
<v Speaker 3>because they can't do everything on their own. So welcome

591
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:32.519
<v Speaker 3>the support and express your feelings and your gratitude to

592
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:33.160
<v Speaker 3>those people.

593
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:36.400
<v Speaker 1>And let's talk about timing. There used to be an

594
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:38.960
<v Speaker 1>old fashioned rule you were supposed to be in mourning

595
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:41.640
<v Speaker 1>for one year. Does that rule apply?

596
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:46.440
<v Speaker 3>I don't think any rules apply because we're all individuals.

597
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:49.839
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely not. All rules are made to be broken.

598
00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:54.240
<v Speaker 1>But how do we know when it's too long, when

599
00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:58.279
<v Speaker 1>we've been unable to let go and it goes into

600
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:02.759
<v Speaker 1>a full diagnosis of complicating grieving and clinical When do

601
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:03.079
<v Speaker 1>we know?

602
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:08.719
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's a good question because nobody really knows. But

603
00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:13.880
<v Speaker 3>you can tell when you have recovered when you've taken

604
00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:17.840
<v Speaker 3>control of your life instead of letting life control you.

605
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:24.280
<v Speaker 3>And recovery also means making a commitment to love yourself

606
00:34:24.679 --> 00:34:27.960
<v Speaker 3>as much as you loved your beloved who has passed.

607
00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:33.599
<v Speaker 3>So it's knowing when you have recovered and reinvented your

608
00:34:33.639 --> 00:34:38.280
<v Speaker 3>life without the fear of being hurt or abandoned again.

609
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:42.199
<v Speaker 1>And then for some people may take a couple of years.

610
00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:46.599
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, and I know a lot of people never get

611
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:50.239
<v Speaker 3>married again, or they never have a long term relationship.

612
00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:55.280
<v Speaker 3>They surround themselves with animals, or they do you know,

613
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:59.360
<v Speaker 3>I bought a spiritual retreat as part of my healing

614
00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:03.519
<v Speaker 3>and my recover I bought this retreat from monks. It

615
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:09.119
<v Speaker 3>was always something I had manifested. So allow yourself to

616
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:14.639
<v Speaker 3>manifest what is going to make you feel. Let's say

617
00:35:14.679 --> 00:35:18.360
<v Speaker 3>the word normal. It's not my favorite word, but recovery

618
00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:20.320
<v Speaker 3>is knowing that you are normal and that you can

619
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:24.559
<v Speaker 3>handle anything that the universe throws at you. But you

620
00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:27.320
<v Speaker 3>have to be ready. You have to be strong physically,

621
00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:29.719
<v Speaker 3>and you have to be you know, you have to

622
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:36.639
<v Speaker 3>have yourself love and feel good emotionally, spiritually, psychologically.

623
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:42.239
<v Speaker 1>Doctor Ava Caddell, I love your advice. About especially social support.

624
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:44.920
<v Speaker 1>Get out there and talk to people, but not necessarily

625
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:48.599
<v Speaker 1>about your your grieving. It gives the brain a little break.

626
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:52.039
<v Speaker 1>Doctor Ava Cadell, Where can people find you if they

627
00:35:52.039 --> 00:35:54.719
<v Speaker 1>want to find out more about your spiritual retreats and

628
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:55.280
<v Speaker 1>your books.

629
00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:59.920
<v Speaker 3>Just avacadel dot com. A V A C A D E.

630
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:05.239
<v Speaker 1>Always always have you on the show. Thank you so

631
00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:08.679
<v Speaker 1>much for being here and thank you for listening. You

632
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:10.840
<v Speaker 1>have been listening to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on

633
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<v Speaker 1>KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.

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<v Speaker 1>You've been listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You can always

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<v Speaker 1>hear us live on KFI AM six forty from seven

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<v Speaker 1>to nine pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on

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<v Speaker 1>the iHeartRadio app.