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Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, Welcome to Seafood Matters and thank you for

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joining us again today. I'm delighted to be chatting with

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Rodrigo Armada, sustainability director at Baja Aqua Farms Group. Hi Rodrigo,

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thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 2: Pleasure to meet you, pleasure to be on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. Yeah, I'm looking forward. For those

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not familiar, can you briefly explain what Bacha Aqua Farms

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produces and where it sits in the global seafood market.

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Speaker 2: Yes, of course.

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Speaker 3: So, Bajaco Farms is a bluefin tuna ranching company. We're

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an operation located on Encinnata Baha, California, right off the

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Pacific coast. We're around two hours south of San Diego

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and are Our farm is located right in front of

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Coronado Islands, which are near the border with the United States. Basically,

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what bluefin tuna ranching means is we capture wild blue

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in tuna and we toe them to our farm where

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we feed them for six to twelve months and afterwards

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harvest to export internationally and some to the national market.

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And currently the company is among the biggest producers in

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the world of blue in tuna. Providing high quality sushimi

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grad within tuna or different markets.

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Speaker 1: My goodness, I didn't expect that tuna. You were gonna

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say most farms are salmon.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So it's I think we're a little bit

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in between the fishing and the aquaculture world because although

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it is not fishing because we feed the fish, it's

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not aquaculture per se, because it's also not full cycle farming, right,

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So yeah, we're kind of in this niche around the world.

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Speaker 2: There's few farms.

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Speaker 3: You'll see farms in Australia, Japan and the Mediterranean and

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right off the coast here in Mexico and Bakalifornia.

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Speaker 1: That must be a good product because obviously the way

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you describe it there, that's from wild right from the start.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and we're taking a native species and veenie with

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also native species. So that's the value added within the

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company is all the sardine and anchovies that we feed

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the tuna are locally sourced from here off the Pacific coast,

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so you're basically feeding the fish a similar diet to

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what they would be eating out there in the wild.

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That plus also having the cold waters, we have the

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perfect environment for a high quality product.

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Speaker 1: That sounds a terrific setup. Before we go deep work,

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can you give us a quick sense of your own

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background and what brought you into this role.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, So I'm a sustainable development engineer. Before

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working here a Bajaco Farms, I worked as a consultant

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for a brief time, and also I worked in the

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can in the canning industry, so but for beverages, So

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I'd say I have a little more diverse background. What

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brought me to Bajaco Farms is I'm I'm a local.

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I'm from in Senata, California. So there's Incinnata if you

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know it, and if you don't, you should definitely come

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to know this beautiful city. It's we're basically a wine

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and food city. Therefore, there's not too many sustainability opportunities.

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Speaker 2: So when I had the chance to apply here about how.

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Speaker 3: Farms and work within this the yac culture industry, work

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with the ocean, and also be able to work within

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the sustainability field, everything made sense for me. So it

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was kind of the right time, right place to be,

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and that's how I came to Bajack of Farms and

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since then I've been here for four and a half

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years now. I started here.

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Speaker 2: At the end of twenty twenty one and since I've stayed.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, brilliant. What does sustainability actually mean to back

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Aqua Farms on a day to day basis?

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Speaker 3: So, I mean, more so than what it means to

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the company, it's very important to I think from a

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personal sense, sustainability has become a term that everybody tries

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to interpret and interpret in the wrong way, and I

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think there we can all align to a more homogeneous definition.

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Speaker 2: That way, we all go within the same standard.

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Speaker 3: Right, So for us here at the company and personally,

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sustainability or even more so sustainable development, it has much

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to do with Like we've it comes similar to the

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Bruinlant sustainability definition and which make proper use of natural

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resources to attend I would say, not market demands, but

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rather social and well being necessities, So the proper use

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of natural resources to attend.

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Speaker 2: Human requirements and needs.

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Speaker 3: Meanwhile also allowing the same ecosies them from where you're

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extracting these natural resources to continue to thrive throughout time,

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not only to be able to attend the needs of

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future generations, but also keep serving those same purposes that

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those resources.

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Speaker 2: Were meant to serve.

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Speaker 3: Right, So, thinking about ecosystem services not only provided to humanity,

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but also to the same habit that an ecosystem, they

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belong with it. So it has a lot to do

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with just a I think it starts with empathy, having

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empathy and being understanding that we are part of and

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not owners of those resources.

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Speaker 2: Right So, I think that's the way we.

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Speaker 1: Look at from listening to you, Rodrigo, if I was

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to put a word to it in my head from

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listening to you, it would be ethics.

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Speaker 3: Good ethics, Thank you, thank you. It's going back to

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our roots. I think people are humans in general. We

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are we're very empathetic creatures and being just mindful of

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where we are and where we stand currently as a

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society within this ecological crisis. I think it's very important

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to have that in mind when we're taking decisions, and

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it gives us a much more holistic point of view

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whenever we're taking business decisions. Right, So, I think that's

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what we're starting.

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Speaker 1: Aquaculture is often promoted as a future of seafood, but

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it is also it's critics. What are the biggest environmental

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pressures for euro operation faces.

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Speaker 2: Great question.

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Speaker 3: I think that whenever we're talking about any primary.

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Speaker 2: Industry, there's going to be pushbacks.

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Speaker 3: And actually, I think those pushbacks from society are the

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ones that enable companies to continue to innovate and thrive

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within changing geopolitical, social.

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Speaker 2: And environmental aspects.

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Speaker 3: Right, So for us, i'd say the main ones are, well,

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I think there are relatively obvious. You're taking two resources

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from the water, right, So the two main things are

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what's the state of those fisheries, the state of the

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lufing tuna fishery, what's the state of the sardine and

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anchobe's fisheries. So since those are our main natural resources

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that we extract from the water, we've got to make

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sure that able to replenish and the population is able

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to stay in a sustainable the biomass, the biomass that

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stays in the water.

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Speaker 2: Is still a sustainable population.

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Speaker 3: So these two, i'd say, are the main points that

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we need to look at, and we'll talk a.

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Speaker 2: Little bit more about what we're doing in those regards.

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Speaker 3: And also not any less important, I think the other

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environmental issues that are most critical to our operations are

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our carbon footprint. It is we are carbon intensive, I'd

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say a carbon intensive operation just from the diesel that

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we require to catch the fish, the diesel that's required

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to operate the farm, right, and of course having a

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company that exports most of its product our scope three

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carbon footprint. I think it's also a hard issue to tackle,

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but still I think it's important to have in mind.

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And finally, the environmental impact that I think, and this

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is general throughout the AGA culture industry, the environmental impact

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that we have on site, right, So how do we

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manage our farm and the impact that we have in

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the local ecosystem where we have our operation, I'd say

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those who are the key ones?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and when you look at your farms today, what's

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the one idiot you know still needs real improvement? I

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suppose that an ongoing situation is.

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Speaker 3: It requires improvement, I'd say that just and we're working

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on it, but continue innovating and improving our FCR. That's

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and it's been a critical issue that a lot of

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people would point out about the industry. And although I

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think it's a complex conversation, I think we are very

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mindful of it, and we we put a lot of

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effort and innovation behind that.

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Speaker 2: That main issue, I'd say improving on FCR And also.

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Speaker 3: I'd say that's the one the most critical issue that

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we still have, not necessarily because of the impact that

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it has in the farm, but the impact that you're

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have in from the extraction from this natural stock.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and feed this is always a central issue.

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Is there any sort of idea to really reduce the

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reliance on wild fish and poot?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: So, of course alternative feed is something that we've explored

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in the past. We've just not come with a correct

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mixing diet that we would need.

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Speaker 2: Furthermore, we're also.

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Speaker 3: And I understand this point of view, still skeptical of

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which are the new environmental impacts that we are going

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to open if we were to start transitioning to alternative feed.

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Speaker 2: So what I'm talking about is when we look at.

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Speaker 3: Feed and comparing two feeds.

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Speaker 4: From a life cycle analysis point of view, we start

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broadening the conversation, right So, and I think this is

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a good segue to.

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Speaker 2: Talk a little bit about how we've been managing.

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Speaker 3: The Sarge Infistry to ensure that this is not a

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population that is neither.

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Speaker 2: Risk of collapsing nor nor going to an unsustainable levels. Right.

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Speaker 3: So, actually part of what we're doing is we're within

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an MSc improvement project where we've worked with eighty five

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percent of the startine vessels throughout the whole BA California Peninsula.

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Speaker 2: That's two states California.

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Speaker 3: We've allied with our industrial partners to go for the

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MC certification.

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Speaker 2: We're still working on it.

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Speaker 3: As you might imagine, coordinating efforts between thirteen different companies

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along two states has taping a few years, and we've

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taken a lot of action to improve.

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Speaker 2: How we manage the fishery.

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Speaker 3: So I put that into context because I think that

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is an important starting point.

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Speaker 2: If we are able.

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Speaker 3: To sustainably manage the fishery, we are able to continue

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our operation while also being mindful of that resource and

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taking care of it through different harvest control rules that

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we've vote voluntarily implemented within this fishery. So from that

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point of view, the risk of going to alternative feed is,

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of course, well, today we don't give any vaccines to

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our fish, we don't use any antibiotics, we don't use

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any type of chemicals. So going from a natural feed

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to alternative feed, we have a higher risk are affecting

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fish welfare and also any waste from the feed that

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goes to the bottom of the seafloor has a much

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higher impact than the waste of the sardines because currently,

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and we know this because we monitor the EBIT for

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monthly and do test every six months of this event health,

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we know that a lot of that waste is.

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Speaker 2: Being consumed by the same environment.

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Speaker 5: There.

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Speaker 3: We have a ton of sea lions, lobsters, crabs, shellfish

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on the seabed floor. So although we want to reduce

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waste at the maximum, the fact that they are sardines

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the same ecosis and is consuming those rather than if

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we had any type of pellets. So we just take

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into account all of these factors plus of course economic

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factors before taking.

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Speaker 2: A decision on transitioning to alternative feat.

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Speaker 3: So we although we have explored some with cold universities,

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we have still not find that correct mix and consider

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all these factors that I previously mentioned that make us

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feel comfortable with that decision and transition.

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Speaker 1: I would take it that you're confident and the traceability

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and sustainability of your.

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Speaker 2: Feed on one hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: Because we are a vertically integrated company and it's a

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partner company, a sister company that is extracting that that's sardine.

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So we are very hands on with Howard's managed. Some

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of the actions that we've taken is we've now have

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an absorb board program for with one hundred percent coverage

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of all the vessels that are part of the certification Alliance.

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Not only that, but we've also implemented fishing vans, voluntary

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fishing vans. So last year we had a fishing van

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for three months on specific bay where we had juvenile

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fish that that's like in the beginning of the year,

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from January to March, that's when sardine spawned actually right

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here in the Dosentles baby right here in the Sanata,

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and we basically close that as an industry.

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Speaker 2: Nobody could fish.

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Speaker 3: There and that allowed to drastically reduce the incidents over

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juvenile fish. And I'm more than fifty percent versus the

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previous year. So I see that we're taking real action

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to reduce the environmental impact that we have not only

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by the fishing operation, but allowing the stocks to continue

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to replenish and be there for the long run.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if there's something I'm not getting right

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00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,400
here roud we go. Bet if there's fashion in bonds

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or quotas or that when you're you're not catching fish

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your ranch in them, would you be commend to any

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of that bond.

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Speaker 3: So the fishing band that we had last year, like

251
00:18:04,319 --> 00:18:09,759
I mentioned, it was specifically for a region. Therefore, we

252
00:18:09,759 --> 00:18:14,240
could still fish starting another regions within the peninsula, just

253
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not specifically here. Yeah, So it was more of a

254
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:23,200
band to allow the juvenile fish to continue to replenish.

255
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It had a that was the main objective to check

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juveniles because that was what was pointed out by our

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technical science team that that was the critical issue that

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we need to attend to as an industry.

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Speaker 2: So that's why the decision was made.

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Speaker 1: There's one thing that comes to mind. On the feed

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you're talking about Rodrigo. You might say, well, yes, not

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you might say I would definitely say I'm probably thinking

263
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:59,000
about selfish, but I would say, before you give all

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00:18:59,079 --> 00:19:03,319
the object and sardines to the tuna, I would like

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to think you keep some for yourself.

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Speaker 5: Unfortunately, the Mexican market is not very there's not a

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high appetite for sardina and njovies in the Mexican market has.

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Speaker 2: Nothing to do with Europe. It is a very different world.

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Speaker 3: Here in Mexico there is a very very low acceptance

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of that product. So I know that sometimes the argument is, well,

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why don't we take those sardines and those anchovies to

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fed people.

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Speaker 2: Around the world when we don't have not even the

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local markets.

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Speaker 3: We need to international markets to be able to put

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that product there. And also there's because.

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Speaker 2: There's no local demand. And when I say local, I

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00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:54,799
mean at a national level.

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00:19:54,839 --> 00:19:58,599
Speaker 3: In Mexico, we don't have the infrastructure nor the know

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how for high quality canning. Yes, and so everything that

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00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,279
goes behind that industry, we don't have it developed in

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this country.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

284
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Speaker 1: Yeah, on fish wealth that an ethics is getting more attention.

285
00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:21,960
How do you define a measure and a commercial operation?

286
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 3: So from a commercial point of view, it's actually very

287
00:20:34,039 --> 00:20:40,559
straightforward because the and when I say this, because the

288
00:20:40,599 --> 00:20:46,119
better of the tuna are the higher quality of the part.

289
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:51,599
So if we are able to maintain a low stress

290
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:56,480
levels on tuna, we're able to maintain low stocking density

291
00:20:56,839 --> 00:21:02,240
on our pens. That leads to a drastically lower mortality rate.

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00:21:02,799 --> 00:21:05,920
And also whenever we take the tuna out, as long

293
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,920
as the harvest is as humane as possible and less

294
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,920
stressed its full possible for the tuna, that product is

295
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:17,480
also going to come out in the highest possible quality.

296
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So I'd say that maybe it's two ways. One we

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00:21:27,839 --> 00:21:31,079
have the ethic side of it, so the proper handling

298
00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:35,279
of the fish, just for the simple reason that it

299
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,039
is a living being.

300
00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, we need.

301
00:21:39,759 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 3: To, like I was mentioning, being mindful and empathetic with

302
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,480
our resources, and we can't just think of it as

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00:21:49,519 --> 00:21:52,920
something that we own. Therefore being very mindful of that

304
00:21:53,039 --> 00:21:54,440
and respectful of the fish.

305
00:21:55,319 --> 00:21:58,759
Speaker 2: And then from purely a commercial point of view, because

306
00:21:58,759 --> 00:22:02,240
as you might imagine, we don't as.

307
00:22:02,079 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 3: Long as much as we'd like to think that everybody

308
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,599
thinks the same in all the companies, we all have

309
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,160
a different drivers.

310
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Speaker 2: And from the commercial team, the driver's very straightforward.

311
00:22:11,519 --> 00:22:13,799
Speaker 3: From the market point of view as well, is the

312
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,720
better you take care of that fish.

313
00:22:16,759 --> 00:22:22,759
Speaker 2: The higher equality, and therefore everything makes sense.

314
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,319
Speaker 3: And that's how we've been able to maintain I consider

315
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,559
a high fish welfare standard.

316
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good's that's excellent. And how do you

317
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,720
approach stock in density and are.

318
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 3: Listing so the stocking density that we manage in our

319
00:22:42,279 --> 00:22:49,039
pens is at three kilograms per treek meters. That's what

320
00:22:49,079 --> 00:22:51,680
we manage and how we are able to manage it is.

321
00:22:51,799 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 2: We have robs, remotely operated.

322
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 3: Robots that we use to monitor the tuna pens daily

323
00:23:04,319 --> 00:23:08,720
and those cameras our team also measures the tuna, so

324
00:23:08,839 --> 00:23:13,039
we follow on a monthly basis how much our tuna

325
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,759
has grown in Therefore, world will to also manage the

326
00:23:15,799 --> 00:23:19,000
stocking density. We see a population within any of those

327
00:23:20,599 --> 00:23:23,440
pens that is growing a lot, well, we know that

328
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,079
we need to harvest it pretty soon to be able

329
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,160
to relieve some of that excess of tuna that we

330
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:35,720
might have. And also running broadening a little bit more

331
00:23:35,799 --> 00:23:37,519
of the conversation and how we take care of our

332
00:23:37,559 --> 00:23:43,119
tuna we have We monitor its health daily and we

333
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:49,359
also clean the tuna pens daily because visibility is a

334
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:54,079
key factor and when we have a lot of algae

335
00:23:54,720 --> 00:24:01,160
that attaches itself to the pens, it lowers stability drastically

336
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,839
and therefore it reduces how much our tuna eats. So

337
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,799
we also have a roof that allows us to clean

338
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:15,200
these tuna pens automatically and our team goes i'd say

339
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,200
we clean the whole farm and around twenty to twenty

340
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:24,400
five days, depending just on different factors, right, how much

341
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,079
work our team has. But this is part of the

342
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,440
continuous operation that we follow to be able to ensure

343
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,519
the best environment for our tuna and then go into

344
00:24:36,559 --> 00:24:37,680
the harvesting side.

345
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,039
Speaker 2: We practice e kijimi for the harvest.

346
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 3: So this basically for the audience that doesn't know, we

347
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,799
stun the fish and after we stun this fish, we.

348
00:24:51,319 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 2: Quickly I don't know the best way to explain this.

349
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 3: We have a diver that that is in the water

350
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,960
and after tunas are stunned, they grab them and they

351
00:25:06,039 --> 00:25:08,359
kill them, make them brain dead.

352
00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 2: They spike their brain in case they didn't.

353
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 3: Die by the electrical stunt, and afterwards they bleed them

354
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,279
out and continue to.

355
00:25:16,319 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 2: Hold sacrifice sacrifice method, and we've.

356
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:26,559
Speaker 3: Seen that this is the most humane and stress free

357
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:33,440
way that we can sacrifice our fish. I'd say any harvest,

358
00:25:33,519 --> 00:25:37,119
if if anybody has seen a harvest, doesn't matter the

359
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:42,680
species there's it's always going to be a more bloody scene.

360
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,079
But we try to make it as human as possible.

361
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good, that's good. The thing that is wondering,

362
00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:55,079
I thought it was interesting when you were saying about

363
00:25:55,079 --> 00:26:00,240
the if it's if you don't clean it, these either

364
00:26:00,279 --> 00:26:06,799
food consumption go down. Because I'm just thinking if I

365
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,640
fish would just say the tuna were in the wild

366
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,720
and there was bad weather, well the bottom would be

367
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,119
stirred up and it would be difficult for them to

368
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,480
see in a natural environment.

369
00:26:24,839 --> 00:26:30,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not an.

370
00:26:29,519 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 2: Expert under behavior in the wild.

371
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 3: Therefore I'd say that I'm probably not the proper person

372
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:36,839
to answer the question as right.

373
00:26:36,839 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: No, no, No, I wasn't I wasn't there. I didn't

374
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,480
mean I was wanting to you to answer that. I

375
00:26:43,519 --> 00:26:46,759
was just it was just a thought that they would

376
00:26:46,759 --> 00:26:50,880
they would come across that in the wild. So I

377
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,480
do you feel that they're eating what they're seeing?

378
00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 3: Yes, definitely, definitely, we've seen it in the farm. Actually,

379
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,960
that one of the parameters that we take into account

380
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,720
whenever we're gonna feed. If we have very low visibility

381
00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:10,720
levels in the water because I don't know, there's high

382
00:27:10,759 --> 00:27:18,079
microalogy concentration, for example, or it's just bad weather, we

383
00:27:18,279 --> 00:27:21,079
drastically reduce the amount of feed that we're gonna give

384
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:21,759
to the tuna.

385
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 2: Or if it's just too bad weather, we just don't

386
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:24,359
feed it.

387
00:27:24,759 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 3: Because we know that that's not gonna be eaten, it's

388
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,839
gonna all go to the seabed floor. So that that

389
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,400
is one of the key parameters that our front team

390
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,480
looks at whenever we're taking daily decisions on the feed

391
00:27:38,519 --> 00:27:42,119
because of course we have it planned, but as you

392
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,680
and your listeners also know, the sea is always unpredictable.

393
00:27:45,759 --> 00:27:48,759
Speaker 2: So any plan that you have, the sea has other plants.

394
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, is that a point where productivity and welfare coming

395
00:27:53,319 --> 00:27:55,839
to conflict? Do you hoddle that?

396
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 3: I think we praior is the welfare. We prioritize the

397
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,000
welfare over the production because.

398
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 2: The main stains, one of the main stays of our

399
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,039
brand is the quality of the fish.

400
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,559
Speaker 3: And as I was mentioning before, we know that if

401
00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:21,680
we want a high quality fish, we need not only

402
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,799
a high quality operation, but also the high quality care.

403
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,839
So we will always prioritize the welfare of the tuna

404
00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:29,799
over the production.

405
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 2: And some of those examples.

406
00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 3: Of course, as we're mentioning, not feeding the fish, although

407
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,599
you might lose a few pounds of not growing them

408
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:45,119
out whenever there's bad weather, but it's just a stressful situation,

409
00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:48,279
so you're not going to priordice that and.

410
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: Just other ways that we.

411
00:28:54,279 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 3: Do that of course is having a harvest that takes

412
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,279
a longer time. So our heart risks sometimes can take

413
00:29:01,359 --> 00:29:04,640
up to six hours.

414
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 2: Because of the way that we do it.

415
00:29:06,359 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 3: So it is an intense operation, but good things same time.

416
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:15,839
Speaker 2: Yeh.

417
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what empact do your farms have on sundin

418
00:29:20,039 --> 00:29:26,000
but in ecosystem.

419
00:29:23,319 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 3: So at least from the studies that we do periodically

420
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,799
on the water quality and the sediment quality is minimum.

421
00:29:36,519 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 2: So fortunately, as I'm mentioning, because.

422
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,039
Speaker 3: Of the type of feed that we give, the impact

423
00:29:46,119 --> 00:29:49,039
on the CB four has at least from what we've

424
00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:51,119
been studying, minimal.

425
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,359
Speaker 2: To very low.

426
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 3: Furthermore, there is a.

427
00:29:57,519 --> 00:30:01,079
Speaker 2: A the island that's right behind us Coronado Islands.

428
00:30:01,519 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 3: It's a natural protected area by the Mexican government, and

429
00:30:08,519 --> 00:30:12,160
we have a close relationship with an angio here in

430
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:22,400
California that that studies protects the habitats and all islands

431
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,759
throughout the Pacific coast.

432
00:30:24,799 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: And from our talks.

433
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 3: With them, the at least from a seber because they

434
00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:36,640
specific they specialize in seber populations.

435
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,559
Speaker 2: From a seber perspective, the.

436
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 3: Species of populations have stayed practically the same.

437
00:30:46,759 --> 00:30:49,359
Speaker 2: We haven't seen any impact in that point of view.

438
00:30:49,759 --> 00:30:52,839
Speaker 3: And also a very important thing they haven't mentioned is

439
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:58,319
where we're located is far up the coast and that

440
00:30:58,599 --> 00:31:02,720
and therefore we have very strong marine currence in that area.

441
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,559
Speaker 2: So yeah, we have. Yeah, so we are fortunate.

442
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:12,319
Speaker 3: Enough to have a space where it's naturally deprivated. So

443
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,920
at least from the studies that we've made, we've seen

444
00:31:17,319 --> 00:31:20,920
a low impact on the local ecosystem.

445
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that'll be important. That'll be important for the

446
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,319
quality of the tuna as well.

447
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 2: Will it the muscle of course, of course, yeah.

448
00:31:32,799 --> 00:31:36,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. How do you monitor see bad health waste and

449
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,279
by a diversity around your site.

450
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 3: So wasted byrdiversity? How we monitor it? We have cameras

451
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,839
that we take to the seabed floor and it's the

452
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,440
same rough that we use for the nets that's able

453
00:31:56,519 --> 00:32:00,119
to stay right next to the net, and also we

454
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,160
take it down to the sebent floor and we go

455
00:32:03,319 --> 00:32:04,559
throughout all of depends.

456
00:32:04,599 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 2: We have a planning so one month we're.

457
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 3: Monitor one area of the farm, another month another area

458
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,880
of the farm, and that way we're able to cover

459
00:32:16,319 --> 00:32:19,559
the whole farm and span anywhere from two to three

460
00:32:19,599 --> 00:32:24,759
months depending on the frequency. We've lowered that frequency actually

461
00:32:24,839 --> 00:32:27,480
because when we started the monitors, we did that weekly

462
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,680
and we noticed that there was very low impact and

463
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,160
very low waste on the seabed floor, so that changed

464
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:41,000
to quarter every two weeks, and then it changed two monthly.

465
00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: So that's how we monitor that is from a visual

466
00:32:44,759 --> 00:32:45,319
point of view.

467
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 3: So we have biologists that look into the species that

468
00:32:52,079 --> 00:32:55,680
we're looking at, how many species we're looking at, and

469
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,839
also looking at spots in the sea for in case

470
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,319
there's like white spots where there's have integradation. We haven't

471
00:33:04,359 --> 00:33:08,000
identified any of those white spots where we have degraded

472
00:33:08,039 --> 00:33:16,640
cbit floor. And from the first question, we take samples

473
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,880
from the ce bit floor every six months and we

474
00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:27,079
analyze those in independent laboratories to see more from a

475
00:33:27,279 --> 00:33:30,559
chemical and biological point of view. And in those analysis

476
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,359
we base off of Friends of Disease certification and what

477
00:33:35,599 --> 00:33:38,839
they dictate within the parameters that we need to monitor.

478
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,319
So we monitor those parameters in the certification and that

479
00:33:42,519 --> 00:33:47,839
gives a good screenshot on the health I know, and

480
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,440
we know that it is much more than that. But

481
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,599
that's the way that we started and as we continue

482
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,799
to progress within our sustainability strategy will continue to enhance

483
00:33:59,839 --> 00:34:03,079
the studies to have a broader perspective.

484
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,799
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, if I say it shows saying this of

485
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,320
environmental study and what action would you take, then.

486
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 2: Well, the first action that we would take is.

487
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 3: We would need to see if it's the whole farm

488
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,679
that is affected or if it's only part of the farm.

489
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,159
Speaker 2: If there's only one part of the farm that's.

490
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,679
Speaker 3: Effective, we would take those pens out of that region

491
00:34:30,079 --> 00:34:35,559
and we have other agricultural concessions that we could take

492
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:40,280
those pens to and that way the site is left

493
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,679
off to replenish.

494
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,159
Speaker 2: So and in case the whole site was that was

495
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:50,480
the condition for the whole site, we would need to.

496
00:34:52,039 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 6: Have a proper planning to see if we would be

497
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,920
able to allocate the whole farm to our other sites,

498
00:35:01,599 --> 00:35:03,679
and if so, that would be the action.

499
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 2: If not, we would.

500
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 3: Need to maintain some of the pens there rotating in

501
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:18,440
different areas of the concession, and the rest move to

502
00:35:18,679 --> 00:35:21,159
our other concessions that we have more to the south,

503
00:35:21,639 --> 00:35:25,239
because as I mentioned, those are that consition that we

504
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:30,239
mainly operate is near the border, and we will need

505
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,840
to take those pens to more here to the south.

506
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,559
So that flexibility that we have as a company is

507
00:35:39,599 --> 00:35:43,480
also a way to manage that potential risk because of course,

508
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,800
whenever we have an intensive feeding operation, there will come

509
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,519
up time where we will probably need to let that

510
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,639
site rest, and that's why as a company there'ents some

511
00:35:54,679 --> 00:36:00,000
effort to diversify different areas where we can farm.

512
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, is there any certification standards you work with?

513
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 3: Well, currently we have only Friends of the Sea, and

514
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:18,119
it mainly has to do with their certifications for agriculture

515
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,480
and their certifications for fishing. There's no certifications for farming

516
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,960
and that's something that we've come across in the space,

517
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:34,840
which is why, as I mentioned, we're focusing on certifying

518
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:40,840
the fishing practices for the extraction of our feed and

519
00:36:42,079 --> 00:36:45,880
further tipeline, we want to do the same for bluefin tuna.

520
00:36:46,599 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 2: So in a sense, since we're not able to certify

521
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,159
our farm by a C or.

522
00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:57,079
Speaker 3: BAP because it is not agriculture, and since the product

523
00:36:57,119 --> 00:37:00,519
cannot go with the label of MSc because it's not

524
00:37:00,639 --> 00:37:03,559
fishing either, our strategy is.

525
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 2: Similar to a let's say a hotel.

526
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 3: A hotel has a supply change, sustainable supply chain policy.

527
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,039
So the procurement policy is going to tell them that

528
00:37:15,039 --> 00:37:19,960
they can only buy fish from MSc certified or AC certified.

529
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 2: We're doing the same with our farm.

530
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 3: We're only gonna enter to our farm feed that comes

531
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,039
from an MBSC certified fishery, and we're only gonna stuck

532
00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:32,280
in poop and two that comes from an MSc certified fishery.

533
00:37:33,199 --> 00:37:36,079
This way we're able to ensure everything that goes in

534
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:42,079
already comes from a sustainable managed population. And then it's

535
00:37:42,119 --> 00:37:46,679
just focusing on the aquacultural practices and adheering to standards,

536
00:37:47,079 --> 00:37:51,719
although being mindful that we cannot certify the farm itself

537
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:58,280
because there's no farming certifications, Okay, so there are more

538
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,679
so references and how we should properly manage it.

539
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 1: Power do certifications reflect what's really happening on the water.

540
00:38:10,679 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 3: I think they are a good mechanism for consumers to

541
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:22,039
have a good idea on some of the practices that

542
00:38:22,199 --> 00:38:26,679
go on farms. But I would not call it the

543
00:38:27,039 --> 00:38:31,719
do all, end all, because if we're taking actions to,

544
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,000
for example, how do you manage your waste?

545
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 2: Not only the waste.

546
00:38:37,559 --> 00:38:42,639
Speaker 3: And I'm not talking specifically the waste from that is

547
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,599
generated by the fish in the water, but the waste

548
00:38:46,639 --> 00:38:48,519
from our operation, how do you manage it?

549
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 2: Or how do you manage your carbon footprint?

550
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,199
Speaker 3: Ac In this the latest version of the standards, they

551
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,519
included carbon footprint within it and carbon production plants, and

552
00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:02,840
I think that that's great. But before that we didn't

553
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,199
see that as an industry, how do you manage your

554
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:10,000
water footprint? So I think all those certifications like I

555
00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:12,880
mentioned are a good way for consumers to be able

556
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,280
to have more visibility and how companies operate.

557
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 2: There's still a lot of things that are.

558
00:39:21,159 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 7: Not are not possible to cover with those certifications, and

559
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,480
we need to do a little bit more of a

560
00:39:27,519 --> 00:39:31,360
deep dive from a consumer point of view on what.

561
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 2: Companies do in specific topics.

562
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:40,679
Speaker 3: And that's a reason why we last year we published

563
00:39:40,679 --> 00:39:44,400
our first sustainability report, a Deer to the GI Standard.

564
00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:48,119
That way we can give our consumers, clients, and any

565
00:39:48,199 --> 00:39:52,559
stakeholders interested more visibility of our operation, and not only

566
00:39:52,679 --> 00:39:55,800
from an environmental point of view, but also from a

567
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,119
social and labor practice point of view, because sustainability is

568
00:39:59,159 --> 00:40:01,039
not only about the environment.

569
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you feel sustainable that he's got a cost?

570
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 3: Well, it depends because not implementing sustainable practices for me

571
00:40:14,199 --> 00:40:17,840
has a much higher costs, but the cost is just

572
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:26,119
distributed to different affected stakeholders. So talking about cost, if

573
00:40:26,199 --> 00:40:29,679
I'm going to I don't know, say a pipe cream,

574
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,519
We're gonna put all one hundred percent renewable energy on

575
00:40:33,559 --> 00:40:36,679
the farm, Right, that'd be awesome, but it's very complex.

576
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,280
Speaker 2: But let's say we are able to do that.

577
00:40:38,679 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 3: Yes, they will have a high capex cost and in

578
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,440
the short term it will have an impact on our

579
00:40:45,519 --> 00:40:50,960
shareholders' pockets. But I argue first that we'll have an

580
00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:57,159
ROI that allows our shareholders to recoup that investment. And

581
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,960
more so than that, as I mentioned, if they were

582
00:41:01,039 --> 00:41:06,880
not to take that cost themselves, that cost is extrapolated

583
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,000
to the rest of the population in the world that

584
00:41:10,199 --> 00:41:14,480
live within a climate that's segraining. So whenever we don't

585
00:41:14,519 --> 00:41:20,119
invest in sustainability, I think we're just extornating cost to others.

586
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 2: Rather another example, if we were.

587
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 3: Not if which is not the case, but if we

588
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,440
were not to invest in security, well, if we don't

589
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:36,199
ensure that we have a no securities are your safety

590
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,559
If we were not to have a safe operation, well

591
00:41:39,639 --> 00:41:43,199
you're extoranating the cost of not having the proper practices

592
00:41:43,559 --> 00:41:47,599
to your employee. If he suffers an injury, he's going

593
00:41:47,679 --> 00:41:49,480
to have that cost rather.

594
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 2: Than the churchholders.

595
00:41:50,559 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 3: So whenever we invest in sustainability, I think we are

596
00:41:54,159 --> 00:41:57,039
just investing in people in the environment.

597
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: And although this will come.

598
00:41:59,679 --> 00:42:02,199
Speaker 3: From a economic point of view as a cost to

599
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,960
shareholders or the company itself, if we were not to

600
00:42:08,039 --> 00:42:10,559
do that investment, I think we're externating costs to the

601
00:42:10,639 --> 00:42:13,679
environment or community or the employees.

602
00:42:14,159 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I get that. I don't think if a

603
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,559
question is gonna ask you, there's no I think you've

604
00:42:21,559 --> 00:42:26,119
already answered it. In tougher market conditions, what gets tested

605
00:42:26,199 --> 00:42:31,800
first margin or sustainable sustainability commitments?

606
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:42,199
Speaker 3: That's that's a great question. Well, I think it's company dependent.

607
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:50,199
It's it depends on It comes down to the prior

608
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,280
use of the shareholders. And also looking if you have

609
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,159
tough market conditions, how long those tough market conditions are.

610
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:57,599
Speaker 2: Going to last?

611
00:42:58,079 --> 00:43:04,039
Speaker 3: And again, what's the risk appetite that the shareholders of

612
00:43:04,079 --> 00:43:05,079
the company might happen?

613
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 2: Right?

614
00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:11,519
Speaker 3: Are they comfortable with going with the risks of a

615
00:43:11,679 --> 00:43:16,159
tougher market for a six month period or if it's

616
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:22,880
very uncertain will that lead to different decision making. I

617
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:28,760
think that that's hard question to answer because it varies

618
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:34,480
from company to company. I'll do a caveat that I

619
00:43:34,519 --> 00:43:39,920
would put for back performances. Fortunately, we have a I

620
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:45,639
think we have a product that although right now I'd

621
00:43:45,679 --> 00:43:49,280
say the market is very unstable with everything that's going

622
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,599
on around the world, wars and everything.

623
00:43:53,599 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get political here, so I will go

624
00:43:55,519 --> 00:44:02,480
into that for that. But although we have those conditions within.

625
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,760
Speaker 3: The market that are restricting the consumption of our products,

626
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,159
our product has been able to stay afload, and I

627
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:09,920
think that just.

628
00:44:10,159 --> 00:44:13,800
Speaker 2: Talks highly about again, the quality of the product.

629
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,599
Speaker 3: So although I think Bluefin Tuna is a product that

630
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:22,239
competes with a lot of different proteins in the premium market,

631
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,840
but we've been able to stay with the steady demand.

632
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 2: Think to what we have operating a company.

633
00:44:32,039 --> 00:44:35,119
Speaker 3: Stable supply three hundred and sixty five days a year,

634
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,760
and you know that it's always going to be a

635
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:43,840
high quality product. So maybe those tough market conditions don't

636
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:44,920
affect us as much.

637
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 2: Therefore, our shareholders are also able to.

638
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,039
Speaker 3: Not be restricted as much by those market conditions to

639
00:44:54,199 --> 00:44:57,719
take any decision regarding sustainability investments.

640
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,639
Speaker 1: But I would have said, I would have thought anyway, Rodrigo,

641
00:45:04,679 --> 00:45:10,440
with the ethics and all you've talked about with your operation,

642
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,119
I know from plastic experience, but I would say, if

643
00:45:16,159 --> 00:45:20,039
it was a tough market situation, I think people would

644
00:45:20,119 --> 00:45:22,800
still go for your product first.

645
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that I would hope for the same

646
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:32,079
the same.

647
00:45:32,679 --> 00:45:36,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, you've got standards that you keep and they're high,

648
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,199
and I'm quite sure like every other industry, there'll be

649
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,039
those that are not. The standards are not so high.

650
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,199
Speaker 2: Yes we know that.

651
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, of course, of course they all have names

652
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:56,800
in last names right by. I think that's the step

653
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:01,519
that the company's taking right now, and because when we

654
00:46:01,639 --> 00:46:04,159
look at it, sustainability is really new for this company.

655
00:46:05,039 --> 00:46:09,960
The department started basically twenty twenty two, right, so our

656
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:15,400
efforts are I'd say that we're just looking at We're

657
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,239
in the first one hundred meters of a marathon, so

658
00:46:19,519 --> 00:46:21,679
I think we have a long way to go still.

659
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,360
But as you mentioned, I think that the practices that

660
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,679
we're putting forth and we're putting out there are leading

661
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,760
to a higher loyalty from our consumers, and we take

662
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:34,239
part at that.

663
00:46:36,599 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 1: When you are to a standard, there's no question you

664
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:41,639
do get that loyalty.

665
00:46:43,559 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yes.

666
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: Our consumers driving change or is it coming from retailers

667
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,039
or the supply chain?

668
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:55,519
Speaker 2: I think both.

669
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 3: I think both, and it just depends where you are

670
00:46:58,519 --> 00:47:02,159
in the within the whole chain supply chain. For example,

671
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,880
we are not yet, but we're still not yet a

672
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,159
consumer facing company.

673
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 2: What I mean by that is you're not going to

674
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:11,159
go to.

675
00:47:12,679 --> 00:47:17,039
Speaker 3: Whole Foods tomorrow or Costco and see Blue Vena Steaks.

676
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:25,000
We sell directly to distributors retailers, so and I think

677
00:47:25,199 --> 00:47:29,679
it is cascades down right. So we see it from

678
00:47:30,119 --> 00:47:34,000
the retailer and distributors are pressuring us to improve our standards,

679
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:39,280
but that comes from hey, demand from the consumer side,

680
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:43,199
and consumer that is saying, hey, we want sustainable products,

681
00:47:43,559 --> 00:47:48,280
we want protein that is properly sourced. We want traceability

682
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,599
in our seafood, we want to know where this fish

683
00:47:50,679 --> 00:47:54,159
come from, especially thinking about all the IUU that goes

684
00:47:54,199 --> 00:47:59,880
around the world. I think that it comes from consumers

685
00:48:00,519 --> 00:48:06,119
and it's elevated by distributors and retailers directly to producers.

686
00:48:06,119 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 2: And we need to adhere to that.

687
00:48:08,679 --> 00:48:15,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what innovations are you most focused on right now?

688
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,800
Is it feeds technology or offshore systems.

689
00:48:20,079 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 3: It's feed technology. We've started this transition in twenty twenty three.

690
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,360
Well at the end of twenty twentye in October, we

691
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:36,760
installed the first centralized feeding system for bluefintuna in the world,

692
00:48:37,559 --> 00:48:42,320
and we are aiming for in twenty twenty seven having

693
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:47,079
the second centralized feeding system for bluefintuna in the world,

694
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,880
and that way we will be able to feed one

695
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,880
hundred percent of our farm with two centralized feeding systems.

696
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,159
Speaker 2: So the next person I would imagine is what is

697
00:48:57,519 --> 00:48:59,400
what are these centralized feeding systems?

698
00:48:59,559 --> 00:49:02,199
Speaker 3: So similar to the sound farming where you're have a

699
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,920
let's call it a mother ship that feeds all the pens,

700
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,519
we want to do the same in blueing tuna and

701
00:49:08,599 --> 00:49:12,079
bluefing tuna. How it's traditionally been done is we used

702
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,320
so at least when I first arrived to this company,

703
00:49:15,159 --> 00:49:18,239
we used to have I think it was like ten

704
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:21,639
or twelve boats, and there were these feeding boats that

705
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,960
will go around the whole farm, feeding the tunas and

706
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:32,800
basically just pumping from It was very archistenal method.

707
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 2: If you go to other parts of the world. They

708
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:36,400
will still use.

709
00:49:39,199 --> 00:49:43,519
Speaker 3: Shovels to shovel sardine, or you'll have just a simple

710
00:49:43,639 --> 00:49:47,199
pump and it goes from a PBC tube.

711
00:49:47,039 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 2: Just dropping to the pens.

712
00:49:49,519 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 3: So what happened, First, we had a lower utilization factor

713
00:49:55,679 --> 00:50:00,239
from the tuna. Second, like I mentioned, these were ten

714
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,440
to twelve boats that were growing around the farm, so

715
00:50:02,519 --> 00:50:08,559
we have a much higher carbon footprint. Secondly, the conditions

716
00:50:09,119 --> 00:50:16,559
for our people in this smaller boat. There were old boats.

717
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 2: Very small, they weren't ideal.

718
00:50:19,599 --> 00:50:24,039
Speaker 3: So going from those smaller boats that were inefficient on feeding,

719
00:50:24,079 --> 00:50:29,639
they were inefficient on diesel consumption, we go to two

720
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,280
only two boats that feed the whole operation. We have

721
00:50:34,599 --> 00:50:37,639
much better conditions. We have a gym for the people,

722
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:42,360
we have bigger spaces for them to rest. So I

723
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:46,079
think we are able to improve living conditions for the people.

724
00:50:46,119 --> 00:50:49,760
We were able to reduce the amount of diesel that

725
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,400
we consume, and therefore we're just in our carbon footprint

726
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,400
and we're able to also feed better and have a

727
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,320
higher utilization factor, which in the long.

728
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 2: Run leads to taking less startines out of the water.

729
00:51:02,159 --> 00:51:06,599
Speaker 3: And this has been a operational transformation that we've been

730
00:51:06,679 --> 00:51:11,199
undergoing and this is where we put our efforts and

731
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:15,280
the shareholders have put an investment to that sounds good.

732
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:22,159
Speaker 1: Are we moving towards genuinely low impact aquaculture or just

733
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:23,960
incrementally improving.

734
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:30,079
Speaker 3: I think we're still in the incrementally improving phase. We

735
00:51:30,159 --> 00:51:31,599
still have a ways to go.

736
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,559
Speaker 2: And it's not entirely because of the industry.

737
00:51:35,679 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 3: And again I wouldn't like to generalize, because each company

738
00:51:40,119 --> 00:51:43,800
is doing their own efforts and each industry is and

739
00:51:44,599 --> 00:51:49,199
I say that each industry is in a different maturing

740
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:53,559
process moving too. An ranching has been around in Mexico

741
00:51:53,679 --> 00:51:57,880
for thirty years, and when you compare that to maybe

742
00:51:58,000 --> 00:51:59,199
oyster farming.

743
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:03,519
Speaker 2: Or that has much more years and it's.

744
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 3: Also less intensive, I'd say that they are further along

745
00:52:08,119 --> 00:52:11,719
just because of the nature of the species itself.

746
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 2: Oysters. They the bibles themselves just for filter feeders.

747
00:52:17,639 --> 00:52:21,280
Speaker 3: Right. So I think we're still We're still improving. We

748
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,440
have a ways to go, but I see a lot

749
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,840
of positive change. And if you were to ask me,

750
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,679
what do I see in the horizon that really inspires me,

751
00:52:30,679 --> 00:52:35,000
I'm just seeing I think it was in more way

752
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:42,719
that they installed off grid floating systems to have renewable

753
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:46,599
energy for the farm. I think those are the next

754
00:52:46,639 --> 00:52:49,320
steps that we as an industry we need to start taking.

755
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:53,960
So for example, today now at the level maybe in

756
00:52:54,039 --> 00:52:56,760
twenty twenty seven, when we have only two boats basically

757
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:57,320
feeding the.

758
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 2: Whole farm, well, most of our load is going to

759
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:02,840
be an electrical load.

760
00:53:03,519 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 3: It's going to be electrical load because it's not going

761
00:53:06,519 --> 00:53:09,920
to be the main ships motor that is operating the

762
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,760
operation itself, is going to be generators that we have

763
00:53:13,039 --> 00:53:18,960
on the vessel that feed the feeding system, to feed refrigeration,

764
00:53:19,159 --> 00:53:23,000
to feed all the electrical loads within the boat. So

765
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,920
if most of the energy being consumer is electrical load,

766
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:29,320
that's great news.

767
00:53:29,199 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 2: Because you're able to transition to renewable energy. So I

768
00:53:32,519 --> 00:53:34,960
think that's a step in the horizon.

769
00:53:35,599 --> 00:53:40,039
Speaker 3: And another one that's I think fascinating and honestly very

770
00:53:40,159 --> 00:53:44,719
interesting regarding environmental impact of the farms and is having

771
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,239
integrated agriculture systems.

772
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 2: So maybe.

773
00:53:50,639 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 3: I'm not saying this is say something for today or

774
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,719
for tomorrow, but a few years down the line, having

775
00:53:57,079 --> 00:54:00,840
algae within our farm, while also having eye dolls within

776
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:05,000
our farm to be able to drastically reduce the impact

777
00:54:05,079 --> 00:54:09,960
that we have naturally in the farm itself. So I

778
00:54:10,039 --> 00:54:12,719
think those are still the next steps that we need

779
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,239
to take as an industry and having a more holistic

780
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:17,920
approach to sustainability.

781
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 1: That sounds very interesting, But what you might say, I'm

782
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,719
a bit confused, But I would have thought something that

783
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:37,079
would have been good for yourselves and Bacha Farms would

784
00:54:37,119 --> 00:54:40,719
be the fact that tuna is such a high value

785
00:54:41,559 --> 00:54:44,360
you're not having to just constantly be thinking of.

786
00:54:44,559 --> 00:54:50,760
Speaker 2: Volumes that allow That helps us a lot. Yes, definitely, yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.

787
00:54:51,039 --> 00:54:52,639
We actually.

788
00:54:54,320 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 3: Currently there's there's ongoing UH talks at international level between

789
00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:05,840
the different different companies different countries that operate these RFMOs,

790
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,840
the regional fishery management organizations that manage the stocks of

791
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:16,519
bluefin tuna, and at least what from a Mexico point

792
00:55:16,559 --> 00:55:19,199
of view industry point of view, what we're pushing for

793
00:55:19,599 --> 00:55:25,800
is the least amount of the least amount of growth

794
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,039
within the quotas. We want the quotas to stay as

795
00:55:29,079 --> 00:55:32,280
they are right now because we want to because we're

796
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:36,119
mindful that this is a stock that was depleted in

797
00:55:36,199 --> 00:55:40,880
twenty ten. Fortunately, as of twenty twenty two, the species

798
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:45,000
recovered is officially not over fish anymore. We wanted to

799
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:49,360
get to a point where it's a sustainable population, and

800
00:55:49,519 --> 00:55:50,960
I think we're right in.

801
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:55,199
Speaker 2: The cusp of that. And for us, yeah, we don't

802
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:56,119
want more fish.

803
00:55:56,519 --> 00:56:01,119
Speaker 3: But the question was regarding where do we see this

804
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:07,800
industry within the sustainability path, And that's why, that's why

805
00:56:08,119 --> 00:56:13,519
my answer was that right, because we see I think

806
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:21,079
we want to push for sustainability not as a.

807
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 2: Not as a.

808
00:56:24,519 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 3: Slogan for the brand, but as something real that we

809
00:56:28,559 --> 00:56:32,039
adopt as a company. And therefore we need to be

810
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:37,119
always pushing for more, always pushing to how can we

811
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,880
improve our operation, how can we be not only more efficient,

812
00:56:41,159 --> 00:56:43,639
but how can we get to a point where we're

813
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:49,320
a net positive operation in which the amount of value

814
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,239
that we extract from the environment we're able to give

815
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:53,280
back just as much.

816
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:55,599
Speaker 1: Yeah I didn't volu you.

817
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, yeah.

818
00:56:58,639 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 1: Do you see a realistic to fully decarbonized aquaculture?

819
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:06,119
Speaker 2: I think.

820
00:57:09,519 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 3: It's that that's a very good question, and it's complex

821
00:57:15,559 --> 00:57:19,559
because it involves innovation in different spaces. So to be

822
00:57:19,639 --> 00:57:24,599
able to have a fully decarbonized aquaculture industry, we also

823
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:31,639
need shipping, and from airline shipping to become fully decarbonized,

824
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,039
because that's how we get the product to our consumers.

825
00:57:34,119 --> 00:57:40,639
Speaker 2: To apply, we also need innovation in ships.

826
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:48,159
Speaker 3: So today we see that shipping has now hydrogen vessels

827
00:57:48,239 --> 00:57:51,880
down the pipeline, but we're have we seeing any of

828
00:57:52,039 --> 00:57:56,760
that innovation for fishing vessels, for example. So I think

829
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:01,119
there's still innovation that needs to go in marine engineering,

830
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:09,199
in the shipping industry, specifically air shipping industry, to be

831
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:14,320
able to get to a fully decarbonized agriculture. Because the

832
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,519
operation itself, yeah, I think most of it can be

833
00:58:17,679 --> 00:58:21,239
de carbonized, but everything that has to do with taking

834
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,079
fish out of the water and taking the fish from

835
00:58:25,119 --> 00:58:28,480
our plant to our consumer. Those two which are the

836
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:34,639
most critical drivers for the growth of of the carbon footprint.

837
00:58:36,079 --> 00:58:38,000
Those are the ones that need to be tended to.

838
00:58:38,199 --> 00:58:42,960
And those are Although the agoculture industry should put pressure

839
00:58:43,039 --> 00:58:47,920
to that and we are, it needs to come from

840
00:58:48,159 --> 00:58:50,719
different industries as well.

841
00:58:51,599 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, And what would you feel was the biggest

842
00:58:56,639 --> 00:59:00,320
misconception people have about farmed fish.

843
00:59:05,519 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 2: I think the biggest misconception that people have about farm

844
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,320
fish is that.

845
00:59:13,119 --> 00:59:20,559
Speaker 3: It is an unhealthy or non natural protein source, and

846
00:59:21,039 --> 00:59:27,320
they rather drift away from aquacultural products, and they rather

847
00:59:28,159 --> 00:59:33,400
choose beef or pork or maybe a fish that was

848
00:59:33,519 --> 00:59:35,360
caught by the local fishermen.

849
00:59:36,039 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 2: And although I think it's super important to continue to

850
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:43,199
put first and.

851
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:47,679
Speaker 3: Foremost in our list uh local produce and of course

852
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:52,800
that that local fishermen to continue helping them. Comparing seafood

853
00:59:53,039 --> 00:59:59,800
and general aquaculture products with beef, pork, lamb, I mean,

854
01:00:00,039 --> 01:00:04,119
it's not even a conversation from life cycle and analysis

855
01:00:04,159 --> 01:00:07,480
and ecological footprint point of view, it is a much

856
01:00:07,679 --> 01:00:15,039
more responsible source protein to have the almost any aquaculture

857
01:00:15,719 --> 01:00:19,280
species rather than those other proteins. So I think the

858
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:25,039
consumers whenever they hear all they use antibiotics or the

859
01:00:25,119 --> 01:00:29,400
classic in salmon farming that the color the salmons have

860
01:00:29,599 --> 01:00:32,760
are is not natural when it comes from farming, this

861
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,920
misconception that that is unhealthy or bad for them.

862
01:00:37,519 --> 01:00:41,559
Speaker 2: That's and and I think that is still.

863
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 3: Affecting consumers decisions, and we need to it's a global population.

864
01:00:48,639 --> 01:00:51,199
Speaker 2: I think we need to start consuming much more seafood,

865
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:56,079
not only not only because.

866
01:00:58,039 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 3: We need to source more protein, healthy protein sources for

867
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:06,440
our population, but also because we need to start driving

868
01:01:06,639 --> 01:01:11,840
down the consumption of proteins that have a high ecological footprint.

869
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:18,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, and with that, is there any sort of criticism

870
01:01:18,239 --> 01:01:22,440
you would say the industry just maybe it doesn't quite

871
01:01:22,559 --> 01:01:23,440
yet getting right.

872
01:01:26,039 --> 01:01:26,639
Speaker 2: I think the.

873
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 3: Industry itself is doing a really good job to listening

874
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:38,440
to what consumers are asking for. I think that we

875
01:01:38,679 --> 01:01:45,000
need to improve how we communicate those efforts that companies.

876
01:01:44,639 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 2: Are are putting to attend to those criticisms.

877
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 3: And honestly, just at least from the short time that

878
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,360
I've been in the seafood industry, I've never seen any

879
01:02:02,559 --> 01:02:04,639
criticisms that are taking.

880
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 2: A negative point of view. I think most of them

881
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:09,480
are seen as constructive. Right.

882
01:02:11,519 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 3: For example, we hear what people say about what're taking

883
01:02:17,039 --> 01:02:20,679
from natural stocks. I hear that we're conscious of that,

884
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:23,559
so we're trying to do our best to have sustainable

885
01:02:23,599 --> 01:02:29,239
fishing stocks. And whenever I've seen again criticism to the industry,

886
01:02:29,559 --> 01:02:35,280
you know, we need to source better sourcing for alternative feed.

887
01:02:35,519 --> 01:02:37,760
So you're starting to see a lot of innovation and

888
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:43,320
bring indifferent even cricket protein to the mix for feed

889
01:02:43,519 --> 01:02:48,920
for aguaculture. So I think the industry is doing a

890
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:53,039
good job to tending those criticisms and that I think

891
01:02:53,119 --> 01:02:57,239
today is not maybe not as visible because those changes

892
01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:57,840
take time.

893
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 2: It's not a straightforward process.

894
01:03:01,639 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 3: To go from one fee for another, or to changing

895
01:03:07,719 --> 01:03:12,840
how you operate a farm, or you know, changing where

896
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:14,719
you source your fish from.

897
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:15,559
Speaker 2: It takes time.

898
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:21,239
Speaker 3: So I think maybe some changes are still not as

899
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:27,519
visible as consumers might want them to be. But I'd

900
01:03:27,679 --> 01:03:31,199
use this question to say, I think in general, the

901
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:37,159
seafood industry is doing a good job, and maybe what

902
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:41,280
we're lacking is more on how we properly communicate what

903
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:44,320
we're doing to those systems.

904
01:03:45,039 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 1: No, that's good, that's good. I wasn't trying to cut

905
01:03:48,079 --> 01:03:54,840
that one. If we're sitting here again ten years, what

906
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,760
would success look like to bacha aqua farms.

907
01:04:00,519 --> 01:04:07,199
Speaker 3: I think for us is I go back to have

908
01:04:07,519 --> 01:04:16,239
we been able to innovate, to tend to our the

909
01:04:16,559 --> 01:04:19,880
critical points that I mentioned at the beginning of this interview, right,

910
01:04:20,039 --> 01:04:26,400
So I mentioned the extraction of natural resources that was

911
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:30,599
being sardines, anchovies, and tuna, the impact that we have

912
01:04:30,719 --> 01:04:32,239
on our farming, our current footprints.

913
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:34,239
Speaker 2: So in ten years from now, what.

914
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 3: Would look at successes having all of the fisheries that

915
01:04:38,039 --> 01:04:42,280
we take fish from, anchovies already and tuna all having

916
01:04:42,719 --> 01:04:48,639
them MSCY certified with above ninety grades and all those certifications,

917
01:04:49,079 --> 01:04:52,760
meaning that we've highly improved the management of those resources.

918
01:04:54,119 --> 01:04:59,960
And therefore the maybe those questions on are we deplete

919
01:05:00,079 --> 01:05:04,719
in the resources are not only tended to, but also

920
01:05:06,719 --> 01:05:10,199
we are certain that those fish are going to be

921
01:05:10,239 --> 01:05:13,760
in the water for a much longer period of time. Second,

922
01:05:15,079 --> 01:05:19,920
having some type of aquaculture integrated agriculture system.

923
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:23,239
Speaker 2: I think for us that.

924
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 3: And we were not able to talk about it in

925
01:05:26,559 --> 01:05:30,760
this conversation, is the impact that we have from toxic

926
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:35,000
algae blooms that happen just because of the region one

927
01:05:35,039 --> 01:05:35,559
that we're at.

928
01:05:36,079 --> 01:05:38,559
Speaker 2: So also again going back.

929
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 3: To fish welfare, there's different studies that show that combining

930
01:05:44,639 --> 01:05:51,840
macro algae within fin fish operations as a very high

931
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:57,559
positive impact on not only the ecoystem itself, but also

932
01:05:57,639 --> 01:06:02,079
as a mechanism to reduce the impact by Mike Raby

933
01:06:02,519 --> 01:06:03,679
because they compete with them.

934
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:05,639
Speaker 2: And finally.

935
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 3: Integrating renewable energy to our farm to start reducing what

936
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:14,800
we can reduce. So, as I mentioned, maybe we're not

937
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:17,559
able to reduce the carbon fruit from from the fishing vessels,

938
01:06:18,599 --> 01:06:24,039
nor the export of fishing, but where we operate, the

939
01:06:24,159 --> 01:06:27,760
site that we operate, being able to start the transition

940
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:33,800
to renewable energy. I think those three components, certifying our fisheries,

941
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:38,840
having renewable energy installed the farm, and having an integrated

942
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:41,840
aguaculture system at the farm as well.

943
01:06:42,639 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 2: Those three components, I'd say that would be an evidence

944
01:06:49,119 --> 01:06:52,440
of a successful sustainability strategy.

945
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:57,679
Speaker 1: That's good. And would there be any would you say,

946
01:06:58,599 --> 01:07:02,960
what would fail looked like and what's at risk if

947
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:04,880
the industry doesn't get it right?

948
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:10,920
Speaker 2: Well, I think the first part of it.

949
01:07:11,159 --> 01:07:14,639
Speaker 3: If we don't get it right, if we're not able

950
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:21,119
to certify those fishing stocks, the whole narrative collapses because

951
01:07:21,159 --> 01:07:23,800
if we're not able to certify those fishing stocks is

952
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,400
for a reason. It's because those stocks are not a

953
01:07:26,519 --> 01:07:33,199
a sustainable state. And if we're not able to ensure that, well,

954
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:36,880
that means that we need to reduce how much fish

955
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:39,800
we're taking out of the water, and maybe that means

956
01:07:40,079 --> 01:07:41,599
shrinking the industry.

957
01:07:42,239 --> 01:07:45,199
Speaker 2: So that would be my answer. The industry would need

958
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:50,280
to shrink because of the depletion of natural resources.

959
01:07:50,679 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 3: So I think the stakes are very high. And secondly,

960
01:07:55,199 --> 01:08:02,760
if we are not able to start decarbonizing our industry.

961
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:07,320
We're gonna fall behind all of the other industries that

962
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:12,039
are putting a lot of effort into that. And I

963
01:08:12,159 --> 01:08:18,359
think in general food system it's it's becoming a topic

964
01:08:19,039 --> 01:08:22,159
that is in top of mind of a lot of consumers.

965
01:08:22,239 --> 01:08:27,079
What's the carbon footprint? Refine our proteins. So we might

966
01:08:27,199 --> 01:08:30,760
not be able to compete as a boop intuna industry.

967
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:35,000
Maybe again solment or maybe against.

968
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:38,319
Speaker 2: I don't know.

969
01:08:39,319 --> 01:08:41,720
Speaker 3: Maybe a lot of people go more into bibilops and

970
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:44,840
they starting a lot more oysters clamps. So I think

971
01:08:45,119 --> 01:08:47,760
that we can lose market if we are not able

972
01:08:48,399 --> 01:08:54,239
to have these things right. So we have two answers.

973
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:57,199
Having to drink are just stocks that we're taking out

974
01:08:57,239 --> 01:08:59,920
and therefore shrinking the operation, and the other risk is

975
01:09:00,039 --> 01:09:01,039
to market share.

976
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's good answers. Have you a pressure from

977
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:12,760
when you're talking about destainability and the bonds and cuts

978
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:17,720
and things, Are you have your pressure from environmental NGOs

979
01:09:18,239 --> 01:09:18,560
where you.

980
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 3: Are definitely definitely a lot of course there's pressure, But I,

981
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:28,880
like I mentioned, I think that pressure is necessary. I mean,

982
01:09:29,079 --> 01:09:32,720
I'm not I'm not gonna come here to your podcast

983
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:36,199
and say that the industry is where it needs to be. Yeah.

984
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,359
Speaker 2: So and sometimes sometimes.

985
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:40,640
Speaker 3: If you ask me, and I am sure if you

986
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:45,600
ask other stinkabilely professionals, Sometimes that criticism that comes from

987
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:52,319
outside is welcomed because we need pressure from different sides

988
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,199
to be able to push for the change that is needed.

989
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:57,640
Speaker 2: So I welcome that criticism.

990
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:02,039
Speaker 3: I welcome that pressure because sometimes it also opens our

991
01:10:02,079 --> 01:10:03,920
eyes to things that we were maybe blind to.

992
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:11,319
Speaker 1: That's very healthy. The problem sometimes it's found here is

993
01:10:12,039 --> 01:10:18,199
a whale called fishing, and they have endless amounts of

994
01:10:18,399 --> 01:10:20,680
money on the industry doesn't have that.

995
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:31,199
Speaker 3: I mean, as long as criticism is, as long as

996
01:10:31,239 --> 01:10:37,199
the criticism comes from science perspective and not narrative perspective,

997
01:10:37,319 --> 01:10:40,439
I think it's healthy when and I think that's when

998
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:44,279
the industry sometimes clashes with some NGOs, is that some

999
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:50,800
engeos out there are driving other private interests and not

1000
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:57,520
science based nor ecological reasons. It's yeah, So that's when

1001
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:02,119
the world starts at this conversation starts getting distorted because

1002
01:11:02,159 --> 01:11:07,239
you're talking about what's the interest that you're really defending, right, So,

1003
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:11,319
if you're not coming from an environmental and science point

1004
01:11:11,319 --> 01:11:14,720
of view, and it's being more driven by who's your sponsor.

1005
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:17,520
Speaker 2: That's where we have a lot of issues, I.

1006
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 1: Think, yeah, yeah, no, what I was more coming from there,

1007
01:11:21,239 --> 01:11:25,640
Rodrigo was the problem. Sometimes there's work. Well, no, I'll

1008
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,279
put it another way. And I've actually had this quote

1009
01:11:29,399 --> 01:11:33,800
from a scientist. He says there's a massive difference between

1010
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:37,760
afficialty scientist and an environmental scientist.

1011
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:41,239
Speaker 2: Definitely huge difference.

1012
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:48,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, huge, Yeah, Rodrigo, where can our listeners follow you online?

1013
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,319
If you have a social media presence.

1014
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:57,520
Speaker 3: You can follow us at Bajaco Firms dot USA and

1015
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:01,399
that's where they can follow us on our Instagram. Uh,

1016
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:04,800
and if anybody wants to link with me, they can

1017
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:11,720
find me on LinkedIn by my name. That's indeed my

1018
01:12:12,359 --> 01:12:17,199
socials Instagram is really more for personal reasons.

1019
01:12:17,359 --> 01:12:19,159
Speaker 2: I don't feel a lot of professional work out there.

1020
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:23,800
Speaker 3: But yeah, they definitely go followed by Hako froms dot

1021
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:27,880
USA and Instagram, Facebook pages, and you can also find

1022
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:30,960
us on TikTok and for me personally, you can find

1023
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:32,279
me in LinkedIn by my name.

1024
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:36,560
Speaker 1: Excellent. Well, thank you very much. We'll just fold up

1025
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:40,680
and appreciate your time, Rodrigo, and I hope things go

1026
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:41,399
very well for.

1027
01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 2: You, thank you very much. Jim, it was a pleasure

1028
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:46,319
have any and you thank you.