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Vancouver's student Elisa Lamb was last heard from 29 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:58.719 on January thirty first, twenty thirteen, after she checked into 30 00:01:58.840 --> 00:02:03.560 downtown LA's Cecil Hotel, a six hundred room building with 31 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:08.879 a nine decade history of scandal and tragedy. The next day, 32 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:13.719 Elisa vanished. A search of the hotel yielded nothing. More 33 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:16.400 than a week later, complaints my guests of foul smelling 34 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:20.800 tap water led to a grim discovery, Elisa's nude body 35 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:24.120 floating in a rooftop water tank in an area extremely 36 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:28.000 difficult to access without setting off alarms. The only clue 37 00:02:28.120 --> 00:02:31.840 was a disturbing surveillance video of Elisa uploaded to YouTube 38 00:02:32.199 --> 00:02:36.439 in hopes of public assistance. As the eerie elevator video 39 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:39.439 went viral, so did the questions of its tens of 40 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:45.479 millions of viewers. Was Elisa's death caused by murder, suicide 41 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:49.439 or paranormal activity, was it connected to the Cecil Hotel, 42 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:53.319 and in that video, what accounted for Elisa's strange behavior. 43 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:56.919 With the help of web sluthe and investigators from around 44 00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:00.439 the world, journalist Jake Anderson set out to cover the 45 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:04.159 facts behind the death that had become a macabre Internet 46 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:08.120 meme as well as a magnet for conspiracy theorists. In 47 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:12.039 pouring through Elisa's revealing online journals and social media posts, 48 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:15.639 Anderson realized he shared more in common with the young 49 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:18.960 woman than he imagined. His search for justice and truth 50 00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:22.360 became a personal journey, a dangerous descent into one of 51 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:26.599 America's quiet epidemics. Along the way, he exposed a botch 52 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:32.439 investigation and previously unreported disclosures from inside sources who suggest 53 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:35.319 there may have been a corporate conspiracy and a police 54 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:41.000 cover up. Anderson chronicles eye opening discoveries about who Elisa 55 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:44.680 Lamb really was and what or whom she was running from, 56 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:49.280 and presents shocking new evidence that may reopen one of 57 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:53.240 the most chilling and obsessively followed true crime cases of 58 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:56.599 the century. The book they were featuring this evening is 59 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:01.719 Gone at Midnight, The mysterious death of Alisa Lamb with 60 00:04:01.879 --> 00:04:05.560 my special guest journalists and author and filmmaker Jake Anderson. 61 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:07.840 Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for 62 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:11.879 Greener's interview. Jake Anderson, Well. 63 00:04:11.800 --> 00:04:15.319 Thank you so much. Dan. I appreciate you having the answer, 64 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:18.839 and I appreciate your interest in the case and in 65 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:19.319 my book. 66 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:23.920 Thank you very much. It's a very, very vast, fascinating case, 67 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:27.079 and it really deals with a lot of things that 68 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:30.240 are very modern. A lot of the cases now we're 69 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:35.360 dealing with forty fifty year old technology, forensic techniques, and 70 00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:39.079 this sheds the light on a whole new world in 71 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:46.319 true crime investigation. Let's talk about Elisa Lamb January thirty first. 72 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:50.560 This occurs January thirty first, twenty thirteen. But tell us 73 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:54.720 about a little bit about Alisa before we talk about 74 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:59.560 this incredible crime that was perpetrated upon her. Tell us 75 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:02.240 about her relationship with her parents. Where was she living 76 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.079 we mentioned in the introduction of Vancouver. Tell us a 77 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:09.000 little bit about Alisa and what she's doing in Los Angeles. 78 00:05:10.439 --> 00:05:16.800 Right, So, a Lisa was a Canadian Chinese Canadian young woman. 79 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:19.439 She's twenty one years old and she had been going 80 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:21.959 to school at the University of British Columbia and she 81 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:27.000 lived in Vancouver. And the aspect of Alisa she was, 82 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:30.879 you know, a blogger and a very just interesting, smart 83 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:34.680 young woman, good writer. And the aspect of the case 84 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:38.360 that really kind of first drew me in was Alisa 85 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:46.240 struggled pretty ethically with depression and bipolar disorder, and those 86 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:50.959 are illnesses that have run in my family. 87 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:52.959 You know. 88 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:56.000 It, you know, took the life of my aunt and 89 00:05:56.759 --> 00:05:59.160 threatened a life of several close friends of mine, and 90 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:02.560 I had struggled with variations as well, So I was 91 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:07.839 drawn to that psychological aspect of the case and her 92 00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:11.000 struggle with it, which she documented very bravely on her blogs. 93 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:16.399 And I was also interested in the sociology of the case. 94 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:21.759 Elisa was, like I said, she's just an interesting young woman, 95 00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:24.560 and I don't think she ever imagined herself getting caught 96 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:28.279 up in just such a strange zeitgeist type true crime 97 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:31.519 case that would be obsessively followed by millions of people. 98 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:35.959 And so it's she has a few posts that are 99 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:40.399 kind of early imprescient about you know, her life. But 100 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:45.079 I think that what really kind of drew me to 101 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:49.519 writing about her was just her open and honest description 102 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:52.839 of her own battles with mental illness, which is, you know, 103 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:58.240 an important an important thing in life in general. Right now, 104 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:01.519 I would say, and she did pretty pretty bravely, and 105 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:05.319 it's just it's unfortunate that she didn't get a chance 106 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:08.639 to kind of get a second act in her life. 107 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:13.879 And I think her battle with mental illness is pretty 108 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:17.079 significant in this But as I will state, you know, 109 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:18.959 as I state in the book, and we'll stay here, 110 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:21.959 you know, I don't believe mental illness and style play 111 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:26.680 or mutually exclusive in this in this case. And but 112 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.000 that's you know, to kind of similarly answer kind of 113 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.319 the first question, that that's that's who at least said 114 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:36.959 Lamb was in a nutshell, a very complicated young woman 115 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:41.480 who is battling something, and that that battle is what 116 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:43.319 drew me to the case in the first place. And 117 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:46.920 then you know, I went down new directions at that point. 118 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:52.279 You talk about all the writing and how Canada she was, 119 00:07:52.399 --> 00:07:57.519 and she wanted to share her experiences, her depressive state 120 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:00.920 and talk about the things that were important to her 121 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:04.639 in that state, and that's how you write that. You've 122 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:07.920 got to know her and a very intimate relationship in 123 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:10.439 terms of the way she wrote and how much she 124 00:08:10.519 --> 00:08:14.600 did share what was disturbing her and concerning her in 125 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:18.800 her life. Let's talk about the tour, the California tour. 126 00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:22.360 She's from Vancouver, she's a student, she's twenty one. What 127 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:25.040 she doing in Los Angeles? And tell us a little 128 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:28.720 bit about this Cecil Hotel as you write, a six 129 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:31.959 hundred room building with a nine decade history of scandal 130 00:08:32.039 --> 00:08:35.519 and tragedy. Tell us about this vacation, why she's at 131 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:38.600 the Cecil Hotel, and a little bit about the hotel itself. 132 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:43.279 So yeah, Lisa was I think trying to turn a 133 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:45.519 corner in her life where I think she wanted to. 134 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:48.440 She'd spent a lot of her life online. She kind 135 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:51.679 of used tungblr and other social media networks as a 136 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:54.720 way to kind of kind of not only communicate with 137 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:59.960 other people about her problems. That she liked that community online, 138 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:02.759 and I think probably was easier for her as a 139 00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:06.080 person with anxiety and depression to communicate with people online. 140 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:09.639 I think her so called West Coast Tour, what she 141 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:11.559 called it, I think that was an attempt by her 142 00:09:12.039 --> 00:09:13.720 to kind of break out of her comfort zone and 143 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:16.440 try and turn a corner and just try and start 144 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:19.759 like a new chapter. And so she planned this kind 145 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:22.240 of trip where she was going to start in San 146 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:25.720 Diego and move up through Los Angeles to Santa Cruz 147 00:09:25.799 --> 00:09:31.919 and it's you know, obviously it ended in Los Angeles. 148 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:37.639 The question of why she settled on the Suscle Hotel 149 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:41.960 is is definitely it's an unanswered one. People have theories 150 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:45.919 is to you know, everything from just economical pragmatism. It 151 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:49.080 is probably one of the cheaper hotels in downtown Los Angeles. 152 00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:53.519 So maybe she learned about the history of the Suscle 153 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:57.399 Hotel or maybe was withdrawn to that to even some 154 00:09:57.600 --> 00:10:01.399 people who go down the paranormal route out and something 155 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:04.360 was calling to her. Probably not the angle I would 156 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:09.159 choose to go down when trying to explain this, but regardless, yes, 157 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:11.840 once she was there, I feel like she got caught 158 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:16.679 up in a nexus there. And you know, to be clear, 159 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:20.480 like I'm not saying one hundred percent that you know, 160 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:25.279 criminal homicide was committed against her, but I my perspective 161 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:27.120 on that did change as I went into this, and 162 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:29.559 I'll get more into that in a second. As far 163 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:33.600 as the history at the Special hotel. Yeah, it's unbelievable 164 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:36.720 as history, and it was already in notorious place even 165 00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:39.559 before the Elisa Lamb case, and I document it pretty 166 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:44.320 extensively in the book. There were aspects of it that 167 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:49.720 I was having trouble operating because there's really not most 168 00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:54.240 of the information online is basically regurgitated from all all 169 00:10:54.279 --> 00:10:56.960 of this from one post. It's just there's very little 170 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:00.279 independent corroboration that has gone on online as well the 171 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:03.639 exact people who died and what happened to them. And 172 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:05.279 so I went in and did a little bit of 173 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:11.360 background trying to corroborate for sure what happened to certain people. Unfortunately, 174 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:14.759 the records on that stuff are very very limited, and 175 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:20.200 it's very difficult to confirm this stuff beyond just newspaper 176 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:24.840 headlines from that time. But they started the curse, what 177 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:27.039 I call the curse of this subtle kind of started 178 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:31.200 in the thirties the hotel, around the time the hotel 179 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:34.320 first started, and as the hotel got as the whole 180 00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:37.960 downtown Los Angeles area got kind of just marooned in 181 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:40.799 the Great Depression, we start to see a string of 182 00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:43.720 just very grizzly suicides that would take place there, and 183 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:47.320 it would range from people slashing their own throats to 184 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:52.200 poisoning themselves, to the most frequent of people jumping out 185 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:55.879 the windows of the hotel. And in fact, this continued 186 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:58.799 for so long and so consistently that locals there would 187 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:02.759 start to call the hotel the suicide hotel because so 188 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:06.600 many people were doing it. Dozens and dozens and dozens 189 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:12.600 of people, really grizzly stories. One woman unexpectedly gave birth 190 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:15.679 while she was in the room, in her room, and 191 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:21.200 without waking up her partner, she dropped the child out 192 00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:26.399 of the window, and just very very grizzly, horrible stuff 193 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:29.919 that I'm tempted to not even talk about publicly because 194 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:33.960 it's disturbing and can be traumatizing for people. But it's 195 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:38.639 just it's part of the history. And so and then 196 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:42.039 of course we get into the murder of Pidgey Good 197 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:47.240 Osgood pigeon lady, the pigeon lady Osgood, sorry messing up 198 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:50.600 her name here, And she was strangled and murdered in 199 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:53.240 her room at the Cecil Hotel, and her murderer was 200 00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:55.879 never found, and so, and you know, this is just 201 00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:58.399 a small cross sampling of just the horrible things that 202 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:00.919 have gone on. And this is all before even the 203 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:03.440 eighties started. And when the eighties started, we enter a 204 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:06.519 whole new phase of the subsal Hotel when two different 205 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:10.720 serial killers took residence there. The first was Richard Rumirez, 206 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:14.120 the Knightstalker, and then and you know, most people know 207 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:19.320 about him, still very shaking stuff. The second, which I 208 00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:21.759 read a book about and I almost feel like it's 209 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:26.919 more interesting, almost, is Jack Unterbegger from the Austrian Ghoul 210 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.279 they call him. And this guy is just probably the 211 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:33.840 only serial killer in history that had used literature to 212 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:36.799 trick people into getting letting him out of prisons that 213 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:39.480 he could continue his murderous flee. It's really just a 214 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:44.320 fascinating story behind Unterberger. So that's two different serial killers, 215 00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:48.000 and then more horrible stuff just continue up into the 216 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:50.440 turn of the century, and then we get to release 217 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:55.159 his case. So it's just this incredible history. And I 218 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:59.200 try not to delve too far into spooky stuff, but 219 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:01.919 you know, at a certain point one has to ask 220 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:04.399 whether there's just some kind of just I don't know, 221 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:07.399 residual trauma that is just lingering in that place that 222 00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:11.799 affects people. And I went and stayed there by myself 223 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:16.159 a couple times, and I definitely just didn't feel myself 224 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:20.919 and had pretty profound experiences there. But the short answer, 225 00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:23.559 I guess to your original question was I don't know 226 00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:26.799 why Alisa stayed there. She's not very clear, and once 227 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:31.600 she got to La, she really stopped blogging and her 228 00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:33.919 social media post just kind of cut off around him. 229 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:39.159 So it's very hard. There's pretty much no answer to 230 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:41.759 right now as to why she decided to stay there. 231 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:47.320 Well, let's get to the crime that captivated everyone's imagination. 232 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:52.200 Of course, it's the video that really did the trick 233 00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:55.159 in terms of this case, but also just the description 234 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:59.039 of the crime itself. You write that Elisa was last 235 00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:02.120 seen January th first, twenty thirteen. She's been at the 236 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:05.559 hotel a few days. She's scheduled to be in the hotel. 237 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:08.039 I think you say three or four days. She was 238 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:11.039 talking to her parents every day during her tour of California. 239 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:15.720 That you write, what happens She's supposed to be out 240 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:19.840 of the hotel on February first. I believe what happens 241 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.960 and tell us about this video and how this video 242 00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:24.639 happened to get onto YouTube. 243 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:28.440 Yeah, that's a good question, actually, and it's a question 244 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:30.720 and not a lot of people have considered. And I 245 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:33.039 really tried to find an answer as to how this 246 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:37.799 video got onto the internet in the first place. But first, yeah, 247 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:42.679 he so, yeah. She disappeared, by all reports of which 248 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:48.440 they're little, around midnight January thirty first, And I do 249 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:53.840 believe she was experiencing a mixed episode, which in bipolar 250 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:58.840 steak is basically kind of a mix between hypomania and depression. However, 251 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:01.519 and that's because she she had gone off two of 252 00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:05.639 her mens, at least according to the corner. Of course, 253 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.720 I'll tell you later why. I think it's hard to 254 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:10.120 trust a lot of stuff that the coroner says. But 255 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:15.279 for whatever reason she uh there were reports that she 256 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:18.759 was acting bizarre, and I heard it's we've heard that 257 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:21.799 from beyond just the women who apparently stayed with her 258 00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:24.200 for a couple of nights and then asked to be 259 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:26.200 moved her to be moved out of the room because 260 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:27.000 she was acting bizarre. 261 00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:27.159 Right. 262 00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:29.960 I found a man who had spoken with her, who 263 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.159 hadn't been interviewed yet, and he said she was acting 264 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:33.759 bizarre too. 265 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:37.559 With lucky lancelots, you can get lucky just about. 266 00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:40.159 Anywhere, nearly beloved, we are gathered here today. 267 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:42.320 Has anyone seen the bride and groom? 268 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:44.360 Or sorry, we're here. 269 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:46.519 We were getting lucky in the limo and we lost 270 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:47.080 track of time. 271 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:50.600 No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up 272 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:53.759 quicker than a guess registered. In that case, I pronounce 273 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:57.159 you Lucky Hiks for free Lucky land slots dot com. 274 00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:00.799 Daily bonuses are waiting, no purchase necessary. We're prohibited by 275 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.879 Locke terms and conditions applying. See website for details. 276 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:08.079 But like I say, just because someone has mental illness, 277 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:11.960 that does not mean that her death was necessarily an accident. 278 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:16.279 And in fact, studies routinely show that, you know, particularly 279 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:19.960 women with mental illness, are far more susceptible to sexual predators. 280 00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:24.759 So what happened that night, of course, is still kind 281 00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:26.880 of a mystery. I did turn up some information. It 282 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.880 makes me think that this was not just an accident, 283 00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:35.039 which has now become kind of a sort of commonly 284 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:42.119 held of these now. But let's see what you want 285 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:44.759 me to answer. What happened? What she was that night? 286 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:45.160 Yeah? 287 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:47.759 Well, no, the thing is where where we're at is 288 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:53.079 that she disappears. So the parents of course from Rancouger 289 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:56.720 to Los Angeles for the search, and then what does 290 00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:58.960 the police do, what's the response to this six hundred 291 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:02.039 room hotel. What does the police do and what do 292 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:03.240 they bring into the system. 293 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:06.279 Okay, thank you, thanks for getting me back on track there. Okay, 294 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:10.240 so yeah, they ran some searches there. They ran two 295 00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:13.240 searches of both including the roofs, and one of them 296 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:17.799 involved a canine unit. Canine units are pretty reliable. The 297 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:20.759 canine units did not pick up are sent on the roof. 298 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:25.799 The police then kind of conscripted the public a little 299 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:30.400 bit in the help for the in the search. And 300 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:35.119 then about a week later, they released this very cryptic 301 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:38.720 surveillance tape, probably one of the most cryptic surveillance videos 302 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:42.000 that's ever been on the internet, and it, you know, 303 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:47.880 went viral. And my confusion with this tape has always 304 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:51.519 been why it was released and why the nature in 305 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:54.799 which was released. I don't understand that the surveillance tape 306 00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:59.039 doesn't really show who it is, Like it's so pixelated 307 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:03.640 and blurry that it's not good for identification purposes, and 308 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:05.920 since there's no one else in it, it's not good 309 00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:09.720 for identifying any suspects either, So I'm not sure why 310 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:12.559 it was released. All it did was stigmatize her and 311 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:17.039 make everyone say that she looked crazy. And furthermore, the 312 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:20.759 police didn't even release it publicly for some reason. They 313 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:23.960 gave it to this journalist named Dennis Ramiro, who released 314 00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:29.160 it on his YouTube channel, and Ramiro has steadfastly refused 315 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:32.440 to discuss how he came into possession of it. I mean, 316 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:34.240 I was pretty much begging him to talk to me. 317 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.079 I mean, he's a journalist. I thought journalists were supposed 318 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:41.359 to be about transparency, right, He just, for whatever reason, 319 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:44.400 did not want to get into that. And I think 320 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:46.559 that tape is very problematic for a number of reasons. 321 00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:48.680 I think it really kind of poisoned the people's minds 322 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:53.039 and stigmatized her, and so that's one of the reasons 323 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:55.039 I wanted to write the books to try and give 324 00:19:55.079 --> 00:20:00.759 a portrait of her that counteracts that that narrative about 325 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:04.839 a week later. I'm kind of compressing times here, But 326 00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:10.519 eventually they did finally find her body, and he made 327 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:13.920 that worker they found her, okay, so they said they 328 00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:19.400 were there were people reporting uh dark water basically sorry, 329 00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:22.039 people who were staying at the hotel tenants there a 330 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:25.119 long term residence. They were starting to find you know, 331 00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:29.160 dark water and their showers and their uh water they 332 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:32.119 used to drink and brush their teeth with red sediment, 333 00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:38.039 strange black sediment. And so finally the management dispatched the 334 00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:42.400 maintenance worker, Santiago Lopez, who went to the roof and 335 00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:48.160 finally checked the water cistern and there he found body 336 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.759 floating face up, and that face up aspect is important, 337 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:53.920 and so that's when they found her floating in the 338 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:56.920 water tank, naked with her clothes in the tank with 339 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:02.160 her UH. Santiago claims that the lid was open, which 340 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:06.599 I think is very significant. Obviously, if the lead was out, 341 00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:09.519 If the lid is open, it's much more easy to 342 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:13.519 imagine that she climbed in herself. It was closed, definitely 343 00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:19.759 points a little bit more towards foul play. Santiago testified 344 00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:25.839 in a civil deposition regarding that, and what I believe 345 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:28.640 is that he may have perjured himself. And the reason 346 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:33.880 I think that is because I hired someone to help 347 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:36.599 me try and find this guy because he had kind 348 00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:40.160 of gone off the radar, and I didn't find him, 349 00:21:40.279 --> 00:21:46.160 but we did find his half brother who basically said 350 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:51.160 that Santiago had been paid money to leave the country 351 00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:54.480 with his family and then it had happened pretty abruptly. Yeah, 352 00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:58.799 he's and he said that he didn't even know Santiago 353 00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:02.119 had left of a sudden, he just found out. And 354 00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:06.559 so obviously this is limited information and this needs to 355 00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:09.559 be corroborated. But you know, part of this is because 356 00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:12.559 all three sources of information about the case, the family, 357 00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:15.240 the hotel, and the police have all been talking about it. 358 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:19.039 It's it's harder to get information out of this. But 359 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:21.880 I do think that we have to figure out whether 360 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:25.799 that sid was closed or open. And another point on that, 361 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:29.599 real quick is that I did manage to speak to 362 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:33.440 one of the first responders who is now chief of 363 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:37.400 police in Wisconsin. This is definitely a worthwhile or a 364 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:39.839 reliable source. He was one of the first people on 365 00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:43.119 the scenes. He says the lid was closed. Now, is 366 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:47.319 it possible that Santiago found the body with the lid 367 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:49.880 open and then closed it while he waited for the 368 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:53.640 police to come. It's possible. But if you're me and 369 00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:57.000 if I'm working and I discover a dead body in 370 00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:00.400 a water tank, I'm not touching anything I'm leaving it 371 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:03.720 how everything is, and I'm immediately and going Italian of 372 00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:07.359 the management the pipeline is. Who he reported to first 373 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:10.920 is also an interesting thing I and we'll get into 374 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:13.200 this in a minute, but I do have reason to 375 00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:18.200 think that the hotel itself had definitely had an incentive 376 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:21.200 to delay the discovery of this body, because if this 377 00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:25.279 body is in the water tank and the lid is open, especially, 378 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:27.799 I don't know how a canine unit is not going 379 00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:31.440 to pick up on that set. So there's just all 380 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:35.519 kinds of anomalies there. But regardless, it's a grizzly, horrific 381 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:39.240 tragedy and there's just a lot a lot of anomalies 382 00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:41.680 associated there, not the least of which is the fact 383 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:44.519 that our body is floating the face up. Most corners 384 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:49.359 agree that in generally still water, it's far far more 385 00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:53.200 likely that a body, a person that has died from drowning, 386 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:57.319 they're going to be face down. And that's one that's 387 00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:01.200 just one little detail of the autopsy that we can 388 00:24:01.240 --> 00:24:01.599 get into. 389 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:06.519 Let's talk about that autopsy, because police make a determination 390 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:10.200 from what the coroner determines. You say they did some tests, 391 00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:12.759 but then they did further test, But what does the 392 00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:16.200 coroner find in terms of cause of death, in terms 393 00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:19.799 of toxology reports, in terms of what drugs may or 394 00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:23.799 may not You mentioned antidepressant drugs, but what drugs did 395 00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:25.279 they test for to be in her system? 396 00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:29.880 Right? So it's pretty limited, and I ended up getting 397 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:34.079 to speak to the corny Corny, the deputy corner, and 398 00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:37.240 he basically set flat out they only test for a 399 00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:40.359 few drugs, and anything past that the family has to 400 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:44.200 pay for. What they did test for is the antidepressants 401 00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:47.799