Speaker 1: To be an antimedic because chapter eight is about Jesus
Speaker 1: punishments in hell in the Talmud. So that's all true.
Speaker 1: But the thing is that probably if you're debating with
Speaker 1: a knowledgeable person, which not many evangelical zide and zions
Speaker 1: are going to be that knowledgeable, but they may say
Speaker 1: something like, well, you know, the tumbutic discussions are a
Speaker 1: bunch of rabbinical debates, and they don't all necessarily constitute
Speaker 1: a universal opinion in Judaism. Which the problem is that, okay,
Speaker 1: that's that might be the case, but most of the
Speaker 1: time when you talk about rabbinic Judaism that it's completely relativized,
Speaker 1: such that you just follow whatever your local rabbi tells you,
Speaker 1: and you're not supposed to go asking a bunch of
Speaker 1: This is a rabbinic principle. You don't go ask a
Speaker 1: bunch of other rabbis what the truth is because you
Speaker 1: just go by what yours says, and well, if you say, well,
Speaker 1: what if they contradict each other, it doesn't matter. So
Speaker 1: it's a relativized type of position.
Speaker 2: So kind of similar to like Islam in that way too.
Speaker 1: It is very similar. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you have
Speaker 1: hatdieths wh's were all insane and you've got He's insane
Speaker 1: temeletic things. And by the way, the hadieths Uh and
Speaker 1: the Quran borrow heavily from the Talmud.
Speaker 3: Yes, I heard that actually the other day that someone
Speaker 3: was giving me an explicit example from the Uh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have one, say, I have some example saved
Speaker 1: in my bookmarks here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's pretty wild, honestly, but that that's it.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to know what your thoughts were on that.
Speaker 3: I appreciate it, and Uh, keep up the good work, Jay,
Speaker 3: We all appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Get Jesus and the Talment by Peter Schaeffer, who is
Speaker 1: himself I think some kind of rabbi.
Speaker 4: Chris again, Hey, so on that point of Islam and
Speaker 4: Judaism being similar, do you find any distinctions or similarities
Speaker 4: between Christian Zionism and let's say the Zohar that places
Speaker 4: this like undue emphasis.
Speaker 5: On spirituality and sort of just like being Did you
Speaker 5: find any similarities between the Kabbalism and the drive of
Speaker 5: the Christian Zionist movement.
Speaker 1: I mean, there probably is some connection there, but much
Speaker 1: of the kabbala is like repurposed and retooled Neoplatonism and
Speaker 1: neoplatonic sort of world structures, or the Porphyrian tree, for example.
Speaker 1: So I don't think evangelicals even know what any of
Speaker 1: that is, and they're really just too stupid to even
Speaker 1: look into that. So I doubt there's much philosophical depth
Speaker 1: to that degree, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's
Speaker 1: not some connection anybody else. It's open for him, hit
Speaker 1: request to speak. If you'd like to discuss any of
Speaker 1: the topics we've covered tonight, you can come to the
Speaker 1: head of the line.
Speaker 6: Jam Hello, sorry again part of my ignorance, but could
Speaker 6: you give a brief summary on like the canonical justification
Speaker 6: for Sunday worship.
Speaker 1: Canonical, I mean it has to do with the New
Speaker 1: Testament talking about that the Sabbath of the Jews is
Speaker 1: fulfilled in Hebrews four and in the Book of Acts,
Speaker 1: they consistently meet to worship the Lord on the Lord's Day,
Speaker 1: such as John saying that he was in the spirit
Speaker 1: on the Lord's Day, that's the day of the Resurrection.
Speaker 7: Okay, I appreciate it, sure, Onion, I mean, hellon yes, sir, Hey, Jay, First.
Speaker 8: Of all, I just wanted to say, I'm you're probably
Speaker 8: your greatest answer. I'm twenty years old. I was like
Speaker 8: a suicide and nihilist before I found your stuff, So.
Speaker 9: I really appreciate everything you do. I really appreciate everything
Speaker 9: you do.
Speaker 8: My question was just about what are your main criticisms
Speaker 8: of Mormonism. I find them very fascinating because not a
Speaker 8: lot of people talk about them. And is it okay
Speaker 8: if I ask a second question?
Speaker 10: Sir?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean you can see if you look on
Speaker 1: my clips channel or on if you just type in
Speaker 1: on YouTube. Jadaur Comma Mormon. We've had multiple debates with Mormons.
Speaker 1: Mormonism is polytheistic, it's borrowing heavily and its rituals from Freemasonry.
Speaker 1: It has a lot of Gnostic space opera theology to it.
Speaker 1: Joseph Smith added eleven verses to Genesis at the end
Speaker 1: of Genesis to predict himself. So I mean these are
Speaker 1: like pretty much defeaters for Mormons.
Speaker 11: Okay, thank you? Is it fine if I ask a
Speaker 11: second question?
Speaker 1: Then sure?
Speaker 8: So I was watching your debate with Trent Horn, and
Speaker 8: I remember he asked a question about what it is
Speaker 8: about uniquely about the orthodox God that makes him necessary
Speaker 8: for the transcendental argument. And you said something about his
Speaker 8: unique revelatory nature. Could you go further into detail on
Speaker 8: what that means for me?
Speaker 12: Please?
Speaker 1: Yeah. I argue that the type of being that God is,
Speaker 1: with his attributes such as omniscience and omnipresence and the
Speaker 1: divine mind, is the type of being who could ground
Speaker 1: such universal, immaterial, invariant abstract categories like mathematics and the
Speaker 1: laws of logic.
Speaker 11: Okay, yeah, thank you, sir.
Speaker 13: We have a good day.
Speaker 1: Absolutely good questions, sir. Yeah, be sure to look up
Speaker 1: those Mormon debates because those are pretty funny. But Nanatine Emperor,
Speaker 1: I remember the last Mormon guy that that I had
Speaker 1: a debate with. He said, I remember when when I
Speaker 1: I could you not this was I've actually heard two
Speaker 1: Mormons argue this when I brought up the fact that
Speaker 1: Joseph Smith added these prophecies to predict himself in Genesis
Speaker 1: fifty when it's talking about Joseph the patriarch, Joseph Smith
Speaker 1: saw an opportunity to add himself, pigeonhole himself in there,
Speaker 1: like wedge himself in there, as as if it was
Speaker 1: talking about Joseph Smith because it was mentioning Joseph. So
Speaker 1: he adds eleven verses to Genesis fifty, and then the
Speaker 1: Mormon guy was talking to He's like, well, the Apostles
Speaker 1: did this with Jesus. They added all these verses to
Speaker 1: make the Old Testament about Jesus. I'm not kidding, like
Speaker 1: that was the actual, Like two Mormons have actually argued this,
Speaker 1: like the Apostles or con men like Joseph Smith, and
Speaker 1: they just kind of crafted the New Testament to make
Speaker 1: it work with the Old Testament. Like literally that stupid
Speaker 1: I seen him either. That was so chid.
Speaker 14: Did you notice yesterday during the debate that he was
Speaker 14: like pretending to be Catholic.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know what you mean, because I just
Speaker 1: went by what he said and then he claimed he
Speaker 1: had this uh novousorto priest that was supposedly Zionis.
Speaker 14: So yeah, I was just curious because like I was
Speaker 14: like rewatching the debate and then you mentioned the kope
Speaker 14: he was going through on Twitter. The guy is still
Speaker 14: today throughout the entire day basically acknowledging that, like he
Speaker 14: was trolling you and pretending that he's Catholic just because
Speaker 14: he was this is not made up because he was
Speaker 14: raised Catholic, so it sounds weird to say anything else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Kristin pointed that out to me a few minutes ago,
Speaker 1: that like he's he's so basically just admitting that he lied.
Speaker 1: So weird.
Speaker 14: Ill, So I had a funny thing happened with a
Speaker 14: Mormon that was like the same thing the other day.
Speaker 14: I was obviously just wasting time on Twitter. But when
Speaker 14: you bring up the Genesis additions and then point out
Speaker 14: that there's supposed to be no future revelation, they just
Speaker 14: get into a like a continuous circular argument on the
Speaker 14: Mormon point that you just brought up.
Speaker 1: Well, no, those are two different points. So the Genesis,
Speaker 1: the additions to Genesis are fraudulent because there is no
Speaker 1: eleven extra verses that refer to Joseph Smith. That's fraudulent
Speaker 1: adding to the scriptures. That's not an argument on the
Speaker 1: basis of the finality revelation. The finality relation to a
Speaker 1: separate argument that that cuts out any cult, whether Mormon
Speaker 1: or Joe's witness that after the death of the Apostles,
Speaker 1: the faith was once we're all delivered to the Saints.
Speaker 1: Thus there can never be any more new revelations that
Speaker 1: are public divine revelation period. Gotcha, yeah, Mormons, this cuts
Speaker 1: out jos I mean, what's her name, the founder of
Speaker 1: the Alan White, the seventy Avenist woman. She claims that
Speaker 1: she had the gift of prophecy and she has new
Speaker 1: revelations battle groups. Right, that's all cut out.
Speaker 14: Immediately got it because when I was bringing this up
Speaker 14: to a Mormon, I see where you're saying that they're
Speaker 14: separate arguments, but they actually try to make it be
Speaker 14: the same argument in a way I've heard before. Basically,
Speaker 14: they claim the reinterpretation was essentially what you're saying in Genesis,
Speaker 14: that there were quote not additions, but they were reinterpretations.
Speaker 1: Because there are no attacks prior to the existence of
Speaker 1: Mormonism that have eleven extra verses about Joseph Smith.
Speaker 14: No, exactly, No, I totally agree. But they actually get
Speaker 14: into this circular thing where they then bring up how
Speaker 14: one it was a you know, they were real additions,
Speaker 14: and I'm like, that's not the case. And their argument
Speaker 14: is essentially for reason that they could have found more additions,
Speaker 14: even though it has obvious implications on the now.
Speaker 1: There where is the basis for more additions to Genesis.
Speaker 14: No, there isn't any. My point is if you've ever
Speaker 14: argued I don't know if you've ever heard like, but
Speaker 14: more Mormons actually argue this. Then if you point out
Speaker 14: that there can't be any additions, they say that there
Speaker 14: is there just is.
Speaker 1: Oh I thought you said additions like ed I no, no,
Speaker 1: and so wait, so they're saying that there can be
Speaker 1: new additions to Genesis.
Speaker 14: Basically there was a reinterpretation.
Speaker 1: It wasn't an addition.
Speaker 14: And then when you point out that there's like clear
Speaker 14: implications of the addition that would you know, have impact
Speaker 14: on the religion that they then claim that it was
Speaker 14: just poorly interpreted the whole time. And then if you
Speaker 14: try to get into the argument that it couldn't have been, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 14: So you can't like literally they just argue in a circle.
Speaker 1: But that's the well, see that's the same move that
Speaker 1: the that the Muslims make to try to defend the coron.
Speaker 1: So that's why you can't have this circular argument whether
Speaker 1: you're not more Mormon.
Speaker 14: Yeah, I just didn't know if you've you've ever heard that,
Speaker 14: because you literally can't have an honest conversation with them
Speaker 14: it's probably not.
Speaker 1: I mean I've only had Mormon discussions actually, probably in
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, so I've not had that
Speaker 1: much exposure to Mormon base. Actually, Tarzan, what's up? I'm you?
Speaker 1: Are you there, Tarzan? I'm you. You have to unmute
Speaker 1: to speak, man, can you hear me? Yeah?
Speaker 15: Hey, Jay had a question for you if the Romans,
Speaker 15: when they destroyed the Temple in seventy a d. All
Speaker 15: the archives of the tribal genealogies for the Jews was destroyed,
Speaker 15: so that means that they can't say with any precision
Speaker 15: any Jew that they are actually have any lineage or
Speaker 15: anything to do with Abraham.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, there might be questions as to the
Speaker 1: veracity of their claims, but I don't think that it's
Speaker 1: true that because the Temple was destroyed, nobody knows if
Speaker 1: there are any Jews, because all the Church fathers in
Speaker 1: every century after the first century treat Jews as Jews.
Speaker 15: Would would you say that only us Orthodox Christians can
Speaker 15: say without a doubt, by taking part of the sacraments
Speaker 15: of the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ, that we
Speaker 15: can actually say undeniably that we do have a lineage
Speaker 15: through Jesus Christ, through Abraham without any doubt.
Speaker 9: Now we are.
Speaker 1: That's what Galatians three is all about. That's what last
Speaker 1: line is today was about.
Speaker 15: Because Protestants can't say that they have like, let's say,
Speaker 15: a inferiority complex before Jews, but we actually partake in
Speaker 15: the sacraments, we can actually say we have a direct
Speaker 15: lineage to Abraham.
Speaker 1: Sure exactly, that's what That's the entire thing they're missing,
Speaker 1: and that's why the historicity of the church, the historical church,
Speaker 1: is what matters.
Speaker 15: One more question, if I may, if in terms of
Speaker 15: I'm sure, like from your research, after we die, there's
Speaker 15: a branch of thought. I think a father Seraphim Rose
Speaker 15: he also believed in the toll houses, and we find
Speaker 15: that in many of the canons. But there isn't always
Speaker 15: a consensus on that, something like professor Quiller, I think
Speaker 15: his name was Alexander the Greek.
Speaker 1: The Greeks oftentimes are if you on where they looks.
Speaker 15: Up, so there isn't like a consensus. We don't really know.
Speaker 1: I think there is a tradition of the toll houses,
Speaker 1: but I think that it can get kind of weird
Speaker 1: and insane that people say every statement literally. I don't
Speaker 1: know that you know, it can turn into some kind
Speaker 1: of like Orthodox version of purgatory. But I do think
Speaker 1: there is some some outline of that as part of
Speaker 1: our tradition, but it might not constitute you know, hard
Speaker 1: dogma for sure. By the way, Father Deacon, are you there? Yeah? Sorry,
Speaker 1: what did you say? I noticed another verse that I
Speaker 1: think could relate to that topic when we are encountering
Speaker 1: Mormons or Charismatics. The prediction in Daniel nine, which that
Speaker 1: guy brought up last night, when it talks about the
Speaker 1: Messiah being cut off, one of the things it says
Speaker 1: is that he brings in everlasting righteousness and seals up
Speaker 1: vision and prophecy. To me, that suggests that the notion
Speaker 1: of visions and prophecies are something in the in that
Speaker 1: you know, prophetic Old Testaments since are sealed up mine. Yeah, yeah, good.
Speaker 1: Call anybody else. If you're a Charismatic, if you're a Pentecostal,
Speaker 1: if you're a Mormon, if you're a Muslim, if you're
Speaker 1: a Hebrew roots for Blacky Burris, or that you're a
Speaker 1: Catholic papist, dispensationalist, you go to the head of the line.
Speaker 1: Even atheist. If there's an atheist, if they want to
Speaker 1: call in hit requests, speak on bringing up to the top.
Speaker 1: Still got almost foreign to people through sixty five. Maybe
Speaker 1: we should call it a night. I don't see anybody
Speaker 1: Else's your last chance if anybody wants to hop on
Speaker 1: good news for everybody. I finished Calliwood three today. I
Speaker 1: stayed up last night. Thank you. Grok finished it today.
Speaker 1: Grok wrote the entire book. I didn't write a single thing.
Speaker 1: I just said, Groc write an entire ast caly with three.
Speaker 1: So I'm taking it easy. Take it easy, Bloomerton's take it.
Speaker 1: Don't let the sound of your own gone hit the ground.
Speaker 1: I don't know the words. I'm not an Eagles fan.
Speaker 1: I listening to that boom or shit. I only listen
Speaker 1: to the grateful Dead, like Dirty d and Fish Grayful
Speaker 1: Dead and Fish is the only band I listened to.
Speaker 1: Were you were You're the biggest ninety two? Oh? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Did you ever follow bands? Followed? Yeah?
Speaker 9: I followed the Dead Fish.
Speaker 1: Are you joking?
Speaker 9: I know, I know you were joking, but I'm not
Speaker 9: dead serious. Get it dead serious.
Speaker 1: You've actually been to a dead Yeah?
Speaker 9: I went to a dead I went to a dead
Speaker 9: show and then used to I mean, I was quite
Speaker 9: a clectic in my music, so I was I.
Speaker 1: Was gonna say, I remember a picture of you had
Speaker 1: a rave. I didn't know you were a deadhead.
Speaker 9: Yeah, the Ray for rasta punk, hardcore jam band anything.
Speaker 9: But let's see, let's go through. Let's use the apathetic
Speaker 9: approach to definitely not country.
Speaker 1: Country and rap.
Speaker 9: I guess, yeah, maybe some like kind of cool underground
Speaker 9: hip hop stuff, old school eighties rap and stuff like that.
Speaker 9: I like that stuff, but yeah, and uh, what would
Speaker 9: either be another no go music.
Speaker 16: For you?
Speaker 17: Uh?
Speaker 1: For me, I'm not a huge fan of like anything
Speaker 1: contemporary adult contemporary radio crap like like mom music like
Speaker 1: Peter Setera, or like none of that.
Speaker 9: How about He's been worship No kl is the Deer Pond.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not a huge country fan either, except for
Speaker 1: some of the old country like Hank Williams Junior.
Speaker 9: Fantastic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that kind of stuff is cool. Countries Billy, what's
Speaker 1: up man? What's on your mind?
Speaker 10: How you guys doing?
Speaker 1: Hey?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 10: Is was this meant to be some sort of religious
Speaker 10: uh space?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an open debate on the topics of Christian Zionism, dispensationalism, Evangelicalism, Catholicism,
Speaker 1: Hebrew Roots Islam, Mormonism, you name it.
Speaker 10: Very soon Israel will build a third temple and they're
Speaker 10: gonna name Trump Messiah. He is the anti Christ, Trump's
Speaker 10: anti Elon Musk is the false prophet.
Speaker 9: Okay, that's what Grox said.
Speaker 1: I typed in, Yeah, exactly, make.
Speaker 9: A prophecy that Grock is going to be the Antichrist
Speaker 9: that goes into the and do the abomination of desolation.
Speaker 1: Yes, doctor Michael, what's up? Good, I'm you, doctor Michael.
Speaker 18: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 15: So I have a brother.
Speaker 18: Who's Hebrew Roots Christian and uh, you know he's he
Speaker 18: keeps telling me about the whole Bible, and uh he
Speaker 18: celebrates some of the Jewish holidays and says that you
Speaker 18: must do this.
Speaker 12: And so what.
Speaker 18: Would your argument be to refute this, which I think is,
Speaker 18: you know, this Judaea sized Christianity that's that some of
Speaker 18: these people are are pursuing.
Speaker 1: Right. Well, the first thing is that two epistles were
Speaker 1: written precisely to combat this this heresy, the Book of
Speaker 1: Galatians and the Book of Hebrews, first and foremost, and.
Speaker 9: Secondly, for get two Theologians.
Speaker 1: There was Act fifteen the Jerusalem Council, which settled the
Speaker 1: issue about what is expected for gentiles who convert to
Speaker 1: the Church. So all of those things are first and
Speaker 1: foremost as kind of easy defeaters. But beyond that, we
Speaker 1: did a whole documentary on Orthodox Shahada. My friend Lewis
Speaker 1: put together a documentary that's really good called Orthodox Christian
Speaker 1: Worship and the Old Testament, and it kind of demonstrates
Speaker 1: that what these people are looking for is actually in
Speaker 1: the Orthodox Church. Right, so they want to have, you know,
Speaker 1: Judaic pentecost services, Well, that's what the church has. We
Speaker 1: have pasca, we have Pentecosts. That's in the Orthodox Church. Also,
Speaker 1: it's say, another easy to is the fact that the
Speaker 1: Jews never considered that any of these things would be
Speaker 1: celebrated outside of the land. It's actually impossible to keep
Speaker 1: many of these ceremonies and celebrations that are mentioned in
Speaker 1: the Mosaic Law outside of the land of Israel, and
Speaker 1: Jews never considered that that would be something that the
Speaker 1: gentiles will be expected to keep, which is funny because
Speaker 1: they have this idea of, well, the gentiles are supposed
Speaker 1: to keep the noe at Covenant. Well, that's exactly what
Speaker 1: Acts fifteen looks to when they decide what's required for
Speaker 1: gentiles converting to the Church. So all these issues have
Speaker 1: been solved in those three things. Fermando, Fernando, what's that?
Speaker 19: Hey, what's up?
Speaker 20: Jay?
Speaker 1: Yes, sir a J.
Speaker 19: So I'm a current Protestant trying to figure shit out
Speaker 19: right now, really trying to figure my way, you know,
Speaker 19: on a journey, I guess you can say. Uh kind
Speaker 19: of started listening to Shamoon and I guess that was
Speaker 19: like the first domino to drop when I started finding
Speaker 19: out that, you know, Christian Zionism was erroneous and stuff,
Speaker 19: and and I thought it was kind of cool that
Speaker 19: what's his name Andrew Wilson kind of mentioned like that
Speaker 19: you should find some Christian Zionists debate because that's one
Speaker 19: of the one of the doctrines.
Speaker 9: I think that fell.
Speaker 19: That kind of started, you know, helping me kind of
Speaker 19: work through and sorting out all this stuff. And right
Speaker 19: now I'm kind of in the in the closet Protestant.
Speaker 19: My family still really doesn't know. My wife doesn't know.
Speaker 17: Uh.
Speaker 19: I haven't really figured out a way to break it
Speaker 19: to them.
Speaker 9: And stuff. I had a question about.
Speaker 19: So you know that you were saying that a lot
Speaker 19: of the promises in the nation state of Israel applying
Speaker 19: now to the Church.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Paul says, the sacred there is one that all
Speaker 1: the promises are yea in Christ, and he means the
Speaker 1: Covenant promises. So all the covenants literally point to Christ
Speaker 1: and are consistent and incontinuity with the Final Covenant. With
Speaker 1: Jeremiah thirty one and thirty three call the New Covenant.
Speaker 19: Okay, So then so so now I've heard I've heard
Speaker 19: that argument that the promises now apply to the church.
Speaker 9: And does that that also mean?
Speaker 1: I mean Galatian six sixteen says the church is the
Speaker 1: Israel of.
Speaker 19: God, right right, right right, and that that also means
Speaker 19: the land as well. The dispute as far as the land,
Speaker 19: does that mean?
Speaker 1: Explains that when the Jews took the land and the
Speaker 1: Old Testament, that's a type of the Church taking the world.
Speaker 1: The land is the type of the entire world and
Speaker 1: Romans for Paul applies that to the entire world being
Speaker 1: taken over by the Church through the Gospel.
Speaker 19: So, so would you say it would be so as
Speaker 19: a Christian, would we not take take sides as far
Speaker 19: as with like Palestinians or.
Speaker 1: The traditional Christian position is that that land has been
Speaker 1: sanctified by the Church and that's ultimately a Christian place,
Speaker 1: a Christian pilgrimage site, even back to Byzantium. So that's
Speaker 1: the classic Christian perspective. And at one time you had
Speaker 1: a Byzantine you know, Christian government government there. But in
Speaker 1: terms of the modern situation, it's difficult really to take
Speaker 1: a side other than that we support the Orthodox Palestinian
Speaker 1: Christians who are the minority there. But no, we don't
Speaker 1: take a side between Rabbinic Judaism and Hamam. John Ross,
Speaker 1: I'm your hey, Jay, can you hear me? Yes?
Speaker 21: Awesome, Hey, I I'm looking for some resources to debunks
Speaker 21: at papacy and look at papal forges. So I wanted
Speaker 21: to see if you had any recommendations.
Speaker 1: The probably the easiest introduction book that deals with that,
Speaker 1: at least in a few chapters, is Michael Welton's book
Speaker 1: Two Paths. I mean, they've been brought up pretty much
Speaker 1: in every non papal apologetic book since uh like the
Speaker 1: last few hundred years. So I mean ed Guiney's book
Speaker 1: Cabalism will mention it as well, But I don't know
Speaker 1: have a single book I'll tep my hand that just
Speaker 1: deals with papal forgeries. But I'm sure you could easily
Speaker 1: find one. But I mean most even orthodox treatments of
Speaker 1: church history, like may endorphanm. Papadoccus's book on Medieval Church
Speaker 1: and the Papacy. I mean it has a whole chapter
Speaker 1: on the papal forgeries. But I don't have a single
Speaker 1: bass to like.
Speaker 9: If you have access to j store, even academia dot
Speaker 9: edu and just type in the search engine, you might
Speaker 9: be able to find some good articles.
Speaker 1: You know what. It would be nice, though, to find
Speaker 1: like a single volume. If I'm sure there is some
Speaker 1: academic single volume on the papal forgeries, there's got to
Speaker 1: be one, because there's a bunch of them. There's like
Speaker 1: thirty or so. Thank you appreciate it. Yeah, anybody else
Speaker 1: open forum you want a hof on. We got just
Speaker 1: Dawna here also one of the top trans apologists. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot of Christian transapologists, but we
Speaker 1: do have the premiere one here. If he's able to speak, no,
Speaker 1: he's not able to speak dirty D wants to speak.
Speaker 1: What's up, Dirty D?
Speaker 22: Hey, man, I'm good to hear you on here.
Speaker 9: Bro.
Speaker 22: I'm a I'm a member of AME, the AMI denomination.
Speaker 11: And I really I really enjoyed.
Speaker 1: This is dark. This is dark. Hope you know that,
Speaker 1: I know, I know, Okay, cool, And I.
Speaker 22: Really enjoyed my church and all. This is like full
Speaker 22: circle that I'm really just thirde of debate last night.
Speaker 23: Loved it.
Speaker 1: Man, it was hilarious. It was great.
Speaker 22: This is all new to me as a Christian, as
Speaker 22: a believer in Christ. This is just all new to
Speaker 22: me to hear about the Orthodox Church. I've heard of
Speaker 22: the Orthodox Church, but I didn't know the information that
Speaker 22: you have have. So I'm just remaining open minded and
Speaker 22: enjoying this. And I wanted to hear more about how
Speaker 22: the Orthodox feels about other denominations. As AMB stands for
Speaker 22: African Methodist Episcopal it's predominantly all black church.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm familiar with it. I remember I think I
Speaker 1: visited one one time back when I was proud of something.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I would say watch a docum. There's like
Speaker 1: a documentary on YouTube if you're interested, called The Icon,
Speaker 1: a seven part documentary it's kind of long, but it's
Speaker 1: a good introduction to Orthodox Church in a documentary form,
Speaker 1: so you might want to check something like that out.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't think like the Orthodox Church
Speaker 1: doesn't immediately condemn individual people. But we do think that
Speaker 1: the Orthodox Church is the true church. All right? Who
Speaker 1: else wants to come up open form chat? You want
Speaker 1: to come to the top of the line, You want
Speaker 1: to ask a question, you want to refute Tristen Haggard,
Speaker 1: which by the way, is easy to do. He is
Speaker 1: in the chat. He is our resident runner up e
Speaker 1: deva celebrity. Tonight we have a couple of those. Tonight,
Speaker 1: we have Father Deacon, doctor Annias, we have little aids Is.
Speaker 1: He's sometimes known as he's clapping his hands together, which
Speaker 1: I think means he's praying for us emoji. He's pray
Speaker 1: He's doing a prey emoji for us. So we can
Speaker 1: thank Tristan for praying for us. We know that his
Speaker 1: prayers will be heard with certitude because it is Tristan.
Speaker 1: He's not able to speak with us at this moment.
Speaker 1: He is probably wrapped up in being in a mystical
Speaker 1: state at the moment, so he probably he's written.
Speaker 9: Already got a head start on the lent, and he's
Speaker 9: taken a ball as silent.
Speaker 1: He's already raising a Black Lives Matter fist. So I
Speaker 1: think he's on our side. He's an ally. We can
Speaker 1: definitely kind of as an ally. I wish that he
Speaker 1: could grace us with his voice, but he's not able
Speaker 1: to anybody else open for him. We can go back
Speaker 1: to talking about grateful dead songs, we can go back
Speaker 1: to talking about fish songs. We can go I don't,
Speaker 1: I don't actually know. You know, there's that what's that one?
Speaker 1: Here we go, we got we gotta, we gotta fed
Speaker 1: here Agent zero zero zero, what's up fed?
Speaker 11: Hello?
Speaker 16: Yes, sir, Hey ja, what's up?
Speaker 1: Man? Yes? What's the agency telling you to do tonight?
Speaker 10: Oh?
Speaker 16: Nothing? I actually just have a quick question. Do you
Speaker 16: feel like the Israel question is kind of gets blown
Speaker 16: out of proportion? Like in my in my humble opinion,
Speaker 16: the transhumanists, you know, like you've all and Klaus are
Speaker 16: a much bigger threat to us. What do you think
Speaker 16: of that.
Speaker 1: I haven't spent a whole lot of time on evangelical
Speaker 1: Zionism just because it's kind of a I mean, I
Speaker 1: was into that stuff when I was like nineteen twenty
Speaker 1: and then I kind of grew out of it. So
Speaker 1: it's not as something I've thought a lot about in
Speaker 1: a long time. But I don't remember what happened the
Speaker 1: last few days. Oh it's a because we got into
Speaker 1: the spat with a past prophet and then some other people.
Speaker 1: So that's why we've talked about the past few days.
Speaker 1: It's not sometime I spent a whole lot of time
Speaker 1: on because it's kind of a pretty low tier issue.
Speaker 1: I do think that it's a serious issue in America
Speaker 1: because it dupes so many evangelicals to replace the nation
Speaker 1: instead of Israel or America with the church because they
Speaker 1: have no conception of like a historical church. It de
Speaker 1: facto gets replaced with the Israel as the church, or
Speaker 1: the Constitution is the new you know. They basically these
Speaker 1: people worship the Constitution or they treat America as the Church.
Speaker 1: Vain It was me, yes, sir, oh.
Speaker 24: So first, can do you have any Orthodox author recommendations
Speaker 24: for like the modern Zionism topic?
Speaker 1: Father a spirit On Bailey talks about it and critiques
Speaker 1: it in his book Uh Kingdom of Satan. I think
Speaker 1: Kingdom of Satan. It's supposed to be the sequel to
Speaker 1: the surferm Roses. What you gonna call it? Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: going I'm going blank because I've been I've been talking,
Speaker 1: says Father Bailey. Well the spirit on Bailey's book Satan,
Speaker 1: and he critiques I mean, it's not just Zionism, it's
Speaker 1: basically all the globalization institutions. Thanks, and.
Speaker 24: So I know you did a young guy's riz stream
Speaker 24: the other day, but I have to confess to you
Speaker 24: that I did what you said not to do. And
Speaker 24: I freaking prese up this girl and gave her tag,
Speaker 24: and she gave me her phone number.
Speaker 1: I even have to ask.
Speaker 24: So that does work sometimes if anyone was asking, well, I.
Speaker 1: Would say that, Yeah, you have to read the room, right,
Speaker 1: So like good comedians read the room. They know kind
Speaker 1: of from a sense of being, you know who they're around,
Speaker 1: like what's gonna work on, what's not gonna work? So, yeah,
Speaker 1: there could be some out of the box scenarios where
Speaker 1: talking about the ology actually could you know, could do
Speaker 1: good with a girl?
Speaker 24: Yeah, to be clear, I didn't like chase after this person.
Speaker 24: If anyone's having that idea, now, she came to me, so.
Speaker 1: It's like you're applying the second effectively. I'm proud of you.
Speaker 1: So I'm also a dating coach on the side, like
Speaker 1: I'm basically Will Smith in the movie Hitch. If you've
Speaker 1: ever seen, that's my Will Smith. Laugh, Jamie's over, They're
Speaker 1: cracking up. So the one thing I would recommend is
Speaker 1: to not listen to Tristan because if he starts talking
Speaker 1: about women, you're pretty much assured of being single. So
Speaker 1: if you want to be single, you could listen to
Speaker 1: Tristan if you want a good dating coach. In the
Speaker 1: vein of you know, Hitch, it's pretty much like I'm
Speaker 1: Will Smith and Tristan is like Kevin James and Hitch.
Speaker 1: That's kind of the parallel I would make if you
Speaker 1: want to understand you know, Riz, Mojo, etcetera. Who else?
Speaker 1: And he left. I guess I had too many insults,
Speaker 1: too much, too much below the belt activities going on
Speaker 1: with my swipes and jabs. Tristan might be blocking me. Now,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Let's pray that Tristan doesn't block me,
Speaker 1: but he may. Poka Poka hunters poke, Yeah, Hey.
Speaker 25: J Dyer, Hey father NaNs. So I'm actually Oriental Christian.
Speaker 25: Thank y'all for even giving me a chance to come
Speaker 25: up here and talk. But I'm Oriental Christian. I was
Speaker 25: wondering if you had any book recommendations for Oriental Orthodox Christians.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the the it's a little bit of
Speaker 1: a difficult read, but The Christological Controversy by John mcguckun
Speaker 1: is probably the most relevant to this because you can't really,
Speaker 1: I can't really deal with this topic apart from the theology,
Speaker 1: and it does get pretty tense. I guess you.
Speaker 25: Could say, I'm sorry, what was it called again.
Speaker 1: Say, Throw of Alexander and The Christological Controversy is probably
Speaker 1: the best book on that topic by John mcguckan. I'm
Speaker 1: not recommending anything else from JOm mcguck and he's pretty bad,
Speaker 1: but that book's good.
Speaker 25: Okay, Well, thank you guys, God, great.
Speaker 2: Day, you too, Cruise, Sader, Hey, Jake, can you hear me, sir?
Speaker 26: I was just wanted a a few questions about what
Speaker 26: you said a little earlier about how American Protestants are
Speaker 26: kind of longing for a historical connection, so they kind
Speaker 26: of like attach it to.
Speaker 9: The modern nations.
Speaker 12: State of Israel is like it's.
Speaker 1: Either America or Israel is their church and like the
Speaker 1: founding fathers or like their church fathers.
Speaker 26: Do you think that's also kind of emblematic of like
Speaker 26: Protestantism as a whole globally, just because I was just
Speaker 26: thinking of.
Speaker 2: A comparison.
Speaker 26: Of how like they used the masoretic texts instead of
Speaker 26: the septuagen.
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of defaults in that direction. Yeah,
Speaker 1: defaults in that direction because of the reformer's decision to
Speaker 1: try to get rid of the Dudo canon by default
Speaker 1: appealing to the matter of Masera etexts. But I think that, uh,
Speaker 1: the indoctrination into evangelical dispensationalism is something pretty unique to America,
Speaker 1: but I think that that has spread, you know, through
Speaker 1: evangelical mission work to places like Africa and Latin South
Speaker 1: America and even places like Ukraine. The US was funding
Speaker 1: not just the schismatic fake Orthodox Church in the Ukraine,
Speaker 1: they were also funding and promoting a bunch of charismatic groups.
Speaker 1: So charismatics have been used by the State Department in
Speaker 1: the CIA as well to push American soft power, and
Speaker 1: a lot of times that could include with a dispensational ideology.
Speaker 1: So that's probably one.
Speaker 26: Right perfect, And one extra question. So my family is
Speaker 26: all Christian Zionists, grew up Baptists. Is there like a
Speaker 26: good maybe avenue of like introducing because every single time
Speaker 26: I talk about it, it's it's shut down immediately, as in,
Speaker 26: like you know, Israel is in the Bible, and it's
Speaker 26: you can't talk about this nation state of Israel and
Speaker 26: any negative light.
Speaker 1: Basically, well, just write down all the passages that I
Speaker 1: brought up to, like goober last night, I mean, Matthew
Speaker 1: twenty one, So is the Kingdom of God will be
Speaker 1: taken from you and given to a nation producing the
Speaker 1: frust thereof?
Speaker 20: So?
Speaker 1: Gotcha?
Speaker 26: And is there any is there any good books? Maybe
Speaker 26: I can like show them about the history too, about
Speaker 26: how rabbinical Judaism is not the fulfillment of Old Testament Christianity,
Speaker 26: but Orthodox Christianity is.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The documentary that we that I just referenced here
Speaker 1: by my friend lewis Christian worship in the Old Testament.
Speaker 1: I'll put it underneath the chat here be the top
Speaker 1: comment right here.
Speaker 9: Perfect.
Speaker 1: That will actually that will actually go to proving this point.
Speaker 11: Perfect.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that documentary, Yeah, that documentary demonstrates that the
Speaker 1: temple worship and all of the animal sacrifices and all
Speaker 1: that really is pointing to the worship in the Orthodox Church. James.
Speaker 27: Hello, Hey, Jay, this is James. I'm a first time listener.
Speaker 27: I'm also a Protestant Evangelical Baptist. I just was wondering,
Speaker 27: like I grew up with all the Israel talk and
Speaker 27: end times talk, and I've seen how the world is
Speaker 27: going with like all the evil that's going on, and
Speaker 27: you know, the atheists are talking about overpopulation and everything,
Speaker 27: and they're killing people at an unprecedented rate, and it's
Speaker 27: really concerning to see. And I see those arguments for
Speaker 27: end times, but I just was wanting your clarity on
Speaker 27: what you see going forward for that because I don't
Speaker 27: really subscribe to this anymore because it's ridiculous. I've seen
Speaker 27: all the chaos that causes and people's minds when they
Speaker 27: go thinking about crazy stuff about the end of the
Speaker 27: world and they don't plan their own lives anymore. So
Speaker 27: I'm just looking for maybe advice and things about that.
Speaker 11: Thanks, Jay.
Speaker 1: Advice about like why or what I've already forgot what
Speaker 1: the question was. Advice about how to go about proving
Speaker 1: that this is not true? I mean all the passages
Speaker 1: that we talked about. So again, the Book of Galatians
Speaker 1: the Book of Hebrews are written to refute this specific error.
Speaker 1: They explicitly say that the Church is the israel God.
Speaker 1: In Galatians sixteen Matthew twenty one, Jesus says in the
Speaker 1: Parable Divine Dressers that the kingdom has taken from the
Speaker 1: Jews and given to a nation producing the fruits thereof
Speaker 1: which is the largely gentile Church. Doesn't mean the Jews
Speaker 1: can't be part of the Church. They have to convert,
Speaker 1: and there have been many famous Jewish converts to Orthodox Christianity.
Speaker 1: So that's how we would interpret those passages. Romans eleven,
Speaker 1: which says that Jews were grafted out of the Covenant
Speaker 1: because of unbelief, can be grafted back in through a
Speaker 1: belief in Christ. You see. So, I mean, the New
Speaker 1: Assessmen is really abundantly clear on a lot of these passages.
Speaker 1: So really shouldn't even be an issue to debate. Perimeter,
Speaker 1: Get on me, perimeter. Do you want to talk again?
Speaker 20: On mute?
Speaker 1: Hey?
Speaker 28: Jay, how's it going? Have some questions about lint? So
Speaker 28: I'm a cate of human and the meat fairy Jessey obviously,
Speaker 28: and so I stopped eating meat starting today, and I
Speaker 28: just want to know what kind of stuff you eat.
Speaker 28: I'm getting conflicting, various different informations.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be mean man, but like, as
Speaker 1: I point out, like we don't do diet canonical issues
Speaker 1: on the open form de Bay streams. So I would
Speaker 1: say take that up with your priests, as I always
Speaker 1: do my heros. Yes, sir, Yeah.
Speaker 29: I was talking to a product and friend of mine.
Speaker 29: He's very well versed, well educated in a lifer, and
Speaker 29: I had him kind of listening. He was curious about
Speaker 29: the experience that I'm undergoing in learning about Orthodoxy and
Speaker 29: becoming as a catechumen. I was talking about church tradition
Speaker 29: and kind of brought up your argument of where does
Speaker 29: he get the Bible from? And his sticking point was
Speaker 29: that one way or another God would have provided him
Speaker 29: and everyone with the proper books to learn from. I
Speaker 29: didn't really know how to kind of continue from there,
Speaker 29: which seems to be very stubborn.
Speaker 1: Assertion, But that's just an assertion that doesn't answer the question,
Speaker 1: which is, well, how do you know that you have
Speaker 1: the proper books that God wants you to learn from.
Speaker 1: For example, if the doodle canon is part of scripture,
Speaker 1: then praying for the dead is a good thing. If
Speaker 1: the doodle canon is not part of scripture, then, as
Speaker 1: Luther said, there's no reason to pray for the dead.
Speaker 1: So that extent of the cannon will affect what we
Speaker 1: do in practice. So your friend can say all day
Speaker 1: long that, well, God's going to give me the means,
Speaker 1: but it's like, well, how do you know the words
Speaker 1: of our churches and the means? Right, that's the thing
Speaker 1: in question. So you can't let people just assert things.
Speaker 1: You always have to say, okay, right, so and where
Speaker 1: do you where are you getting that from? What's what's
Speaker 1: the basis to believe that that's the case? Hang your head?
Speaker 30: Hey jay, yes sir, Hey, well I'll say I just
Speaker 30: spoke with Tristan and he said he was sorry he
Speaker 30: couldn't come on and talk. He's rearranging his crystals and anticipation,
Speaker 30: anticipation of the changing season. So maybe maybe when spring
Speaker 30: rolls around from.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, he follows like the solstice or something,
Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, I'm not into the wicker stuff. He
Speaker 1: can he can explain that if you can.
Speaker 30: I have the Copplestone about the Coppleston Frederick Coppleston thirteen
Speaker 30: volume mass of set of the history of what Stern Philosophy,
Speaker 30: and I was wondering, I'm kind of getting bogged down
Speaker 30: in it. I was wondering, if you knew or recommended
Speaker 30: a single volume overview that that you know of that
Speaker 30: maybe I could read first.
Speaker 1: I think this is actually a classic problem in the
Speaker 1: history of philosophical discourse. I've only ever heard philosopher men
Speaker 1: complaining that there's not a single history of philosophy that's
Speaker 1: any good. A lot of people criticize the Will Durrant one,
Speaker 1: a lot of people criticize Persian Russells. Maybe Father Deacon
Speaker 1: could point to one that he thinks is good.
Speaker 9: I mean Copplison's good Will Durrant's note.
Speaker 1: But he's but he's ayes for a single volume and
Speaker 1: not a fourteen volume.
Speaker 30: Yeah. I planned to work my way through it. I
Speaker 30: like everybody else, I've got a shelf full of books
Speaker 30: I want to read.
Speaker 9: And I started.
Speaker 30: I started in the first volume, and I got about
Speaker 30: halfway through, and I just got down on it, and
Speaker 30: I just thought, maybe if I had maybe if I
Speaker 30: could read a single volume.
Speaker 9: Maybe world around then that might be. It's just it's
Speaker 9: really how would you describe it, ja like a pop
Speaker 9: It's like a pop book.
Speaker 1: Like I said, all I've ever heard is philosophy professors
Speaker 1: complaining that there.
Speaker 9: Isn't one There really isn't. I mean, And that's the
Speaker 9: problem is that if you're going to get if you're
Speaker 9: gonna get like that's a massive corpus and work things
Speaker 9: to cover in order to do it any justice whatsoever,
Speaker 9: you're gonna need a fourteen volume set. Well, otherwise it's
Speaker 9: just gonna be just kind of a pop you know.
Speaker 30: Just how far up does your philosophy course cover?
Speaker 1: I did pre Socratics up to Nietzschean postmodernism.
Speaker 30: Okay, I would probably be that would probably be a
Speaker 30: better format for me, really, So maybe I'll check that out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I tried to, you know, I tried
Speaker 1: to engineer it to be like the best you know,
Speaker 1: single course introduction. And Father Deacon makes an appearance in that,
Speaker 1: by the.
Speaker 30: Way, I'm wonderful.
Speaker 9: All right, cool, Well, thanks a lot, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Yes, Father Deacon is there for the epistemology class.
Speaker 9: I think maybe I should make a history of Philosophy book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I.
Speaker 9: Wanted to do the color in your Own Adventure Philosophy book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, I think. I think Tristan's working on
Speaker 1: an introduction to Wickup book right now, so he could
Speaker 1: probably give you some pointers on how to go about it. Tristan,
Speaker 1: how come you don't want to speak? Are you just
Speaker 1: too good for us? Or I'm confused? He's giving us
Speaker 1: the style treatment, so he's like, a, I mean this,
Speaker 1: crystals need to be he's ghosting, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 31: I just wanted to have a bit of a more
Speaker 31: of a throwaway question about Christian Zionism, which is just
Speaker 31: like I don't I don't really see what it is
Speaker 31: about it that is so convincing to these like certain
Speaker 31: you know, like evangelical boomer demographics. Uh, and not just
Speaker 31: like convincing, but they're kind of like what is it?
Speaker 31: They're very like zealous and intense about it, and I
Speaker 31: don't really understand why what is it about that position
Speaker 31: that causes people to act that way?
Speaker 1: And again I think that because there's not a historical connection,
Speaker 1: they don't see, you know, the church that they're a
Speaker 1: part of really grounded in anything other than this appeal
Speaker 1: to uh, you know, the nation state of Israel throughout
Speaker 1: the Bible, and so that for them is it's sort
Speaker 1: of a default church history for them.
Speaker 9: And you have to keep in mind to the the
Speaker 9: geopolitical influence in the manufacturing of consent among in terms
Speaker 9: of politics of the American people.
Speaker 1: That.
Speaker 9: The Schofield Bible, how that was disseminating the seminaries and
Speaker 9: funding exactly like all of that is because I was
Speaker 9: just the reason why I'm thinking about that is it
Speaker 9: just did this week last week all my classes on
Speaker 9: basically no Chompsky's manufacturing consent basically an institutional analysis of
Speaker 9: propaganda and how that works through and so my mind
Speaker 9: is just immediately thinking about that. That's that, well, that's
Speaker 9: really easy. I mean obviously, especially with boomers and stuff
Speaker 9: like that, to con you know, through a propaganda model,
Speaker 9: had to actually manufacture them. So because all of that,
Speaker 9: it's not even biological, it's all about its politics.
Speaker 1: Well, in about this domain, I'm pretty sure it was
Speaker 1: through the apture of the the Seats of Theology at
Speaker 1: Dallas Theological Seminary. So that's been the hub of dispensationalism
Speaker 1: in the Baptist Church for decades and decades and decades.
Speaker 9: And notice the Baptist is the largest group of Christians
Speaker 9: in the United States, I believe, remember correctly, So you
Speaker 9: would want to if you're an institution trying to kind
Speaker 9: of manufacturing consent to support the state of Israel and
Speaker 9: various you know, political things. Isn't that the exact group
Speaker 9: that you wouldn want to infiltrate, right?
Speaker 31: Yeah, I didn't even think about the geopolitical part of it.
Speaker 13: Anyways, Thank you, guys, have a good night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a huge part. In fact, that's what we've
Speaker 1: been talking about for the last few days. Greg, did
Speaker 1: you want to come back and say something.
Speaker 32: Yeah, So at the beginning of the stream I asked
Speaker 32: above about grounding I remember, right, Yeah, So you say
Speaker 32: God grounds the law of identity, logic, that sort of thing.
Speaker 32: So you probably you may have answered this already, or
Speaker 32: you may think it's a real question, But what do
Speaker 32: you mean by God?
Speaker 1: What is God? Exactly? I mean, specifically the orthodogic ch
Speaker 1: Christian conception of the trine God with all of his attributes,
Speaker 1: particularly the personhood of God and the omnies. As an
Speaker 1: example would be the means metaphysically speaking, by which those
Speaker 1: categories would be grounded.
Speaker 32: Could you repeat those words again, personhood?
Speaker 1: Yes, In other words, God is personal and not impersonal,
Speaker 1: meaning that there's intentionality and purpose to his actions and
Speaker 1: his creation. It's not meaningless, it's not disteleological, it's purposive,
Speaker 1: and that's connected to God being personal. And then the
Speaker 1: other attributes like being omniscient and omnipresent, would would relate
Speaker 1: to how something like a law of identity could be universal, immaterial, invariant,
Speaker 1: and apply at all times because it's grounded in the
Speaker 1: mind of God.
Speaker 32: So you call this the Orthodox conception of God?
Speaker 1: Correct?
Speaker 32: Okay, I'd be able to find a definition of this
Speaker 32: somewhere if I if I wanted to.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just saying the Orthodox trinity, like the Orthodox
Speaker 1: doctrin that not the Roman Catholic doctrine of the trinity,
Speaker 1: but rather the Orthodox monarchical trinitarian view. Okay, a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of words being precise. The reason I'm
Speaker 1: using those terms is to be precise.
Speaker 32: Right, I did ask you to be precise Orthodox monarch
Speaker 32: cheo trinity. Yes, okay, Okay, I'll look into these things.
Speaker 32: Thank you for your time, Jay, Sure, Jose.
Speaker 1: Here it was.
Speaker 33: So the regarding the previous question of why people or
Speaker 33: evangelicals are persuaded but Sianism, I can provide some insight
Speaker 33: at least on what I what I saw growing up
Speaker 33: in evangelical who you know, believe in all this Scianism.
Speaker 33: So something interesting kind of related to prosperity Gospel kind
Speaker 33: of like Joe Osteine where you kind of it's kind
Speaker 33: of like transactional Christianity where everything you do is for
Speaker 33: like your own you know, uh profit, like even financial
Speaker 33: profit or well being, Like, oh, I worship God so
Speaker 33: he can bless me with with money and stuff, which
Speaker 33: is pretty huge in evangelical Christianity. So something I heard.
Speaker 1: That a good point. There is a connection between the
Speaker 1: prosperity gospel and a lot of this dispensational stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 33: Yeah, something I heard growing up very adamantly was we
Speaker 33: pray for Israel and we send money to Israel so
Speaker 33: we can be benefited monetarily.
Speaker 1: And because they think they don't understand the Church, they're
Speaker 1: missing the entire history of Christianity as the church, which
Speaker 1: is the Israel.
Speaker 9: I just realized when you're saying that it's literary. It's
Speaker 9: literally belief in magic. If I do this certain thing,
Speaker 9: I'll get this. And how crazy is that?
Speaker 1: I don't think, Well, that's the thing, that's the Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the word of faith, you know. Kenneth Cope and
Speaker 1: BENI had.
Speaker 9: It's total occultic magic. Yeah wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 33: And their basis for this that I heard, they argue
Speaker 33: from some texts on the eutronomy and I think Malacai
Speaker 33: as well, when they say, oh uh, those nations who
Speaker 33: bless you Israel will be blessed, and those who curse
Speaker 33: you Israel will be cursed as well. So they say, oh,
Speaker 33: therefore we must send money to Israel so we could
Speaker 33: be blessed, which is like a very we.
Speaker 1: They're missing the fact that Israel is a type of
Speaker 1: the Church. So type moves to fulfillment. The type doesn't
Speaker 1: continue on for forever when the fulfillment comes common sense. Hello, Jake, Yes, sir?
Speaker 34: All right, Jay, how you doing great?
Speaker 9: Talking with you? I'll like keep it short.
Speaker 34: I wanted to jump on, but I was driving, so
Speaker 34: was I just wanted to say it was I met
Speaker 34: you last year when you were in LA and wanted
Speaker 34: to say that was a great evening. I'd encourage anyone
Speaker 34: who is interested in all the other topics you cover
Speaker 34: to to check that out. Are you planning on coming
Speaker 34: back to southern California this year or next door?
Speaker 1: I mean imagine that sometime we'll come back. I don't
Speaker 1: know specifically.
Speaker 34: When, though, that was That was a great night. So
Speaker 34: thank you real quick. Just what the last person was
Speaker 34: saying is so true. That being uh, you know, Christian
Speaker 34: evangelical circles the Boomer generation, my parents and myself even
Speaker 34: till you know, a few years ago. It's literally, you
Speaker 34: know what we're taught, people follow it blindly. It's like
Speaker 34: a spell that's on all these people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was, I was trought the same stuff as
Speaker 1: a as an evangelical group.
Speaker 34: And they don't really know any better. My mom, the
Speaker 34: first time I brought it up and started talking to
Speaker 34: her about it, you know, she started crying as if
Speaker 34: I was, you know, going to hell for it. And
Speaker 34: now after you know, showing her, I don't know if
Speaker 34: you pruit like the movie or not, but it works
Speaker 34: on a lot of Christians as marching design. I show
Speaker 34: it to a lot of Christians and it's you know,
Speaker 34: I don't agree with everything about all the pastors in it,
Speaker 34: but it goes point by point and for Protestants and
Speaker 34: Evangelicals it's a good thing. I mean, my parents now
Speaker 34: left a church over that because they were bringing it
Speaker 34: up so much in Bible studies, and my mom and
Speaker 34: Daubt were speaking out against it. Now after just you know,
Speaker 34: two years, so there's a way to wake up.
Speaker 1: And I've not actually watched this. You said it's a
Speaker 1: documentary called Marching Design. Yeah, I'll have to check that.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing it's a critique of evangelical Zionism.
Speaker 34: Correct, it's it's on YouTube or you.
Speaker 9: I mean, I have it on my page too. You
Speaker 9: can look at it there.
Speaker 34: I've replied to Greg Locke and all the craziness he's
Speaker 34: been saying the last few days, so you can find
Speaker 34: it on there.
Speaker 1: Because yeah, well all of these people are paid.
Speaker 34: So yeah, I mean, could I ask you and the father.
Speaker 34: I'm in southern California.
Speaker 9: I've looked up.
Speaker 34: I'm Protestant missionary kid growing up, but listening to you
Speaker 34: and what not, very interested and I think that you know,
Speaker 34: been being led to dig deeper into Orthodoxy. And I've
Speaker 34: looked up online and there's you know, Russian Orthodox and
Speaker 34: all these different in the area. Do you have one
Speaker 34: that you'd recommend in southern California, like Orange County, South
Speaker 34: Orange County area.
Speaker 9: That's where I moved from. I lived there about four
Speaker 9: years ago. Okay, So especially where you're coming from, i'd recommend,
Speaker 9: like your background, I'd recommend Saint Barnabas and Coast Basic California. Okay,
Speaker 9: if that's not too far. I'm trying to think South County.
Speaker 9: It's just right off the four or five and by, yeah,
Speaker 9: right right by it's Harbor in the four or five. Basically,
Speaker 9: let's St. Barnabas. Yeah, because that church was formed out
Speaker 9: of kind of like Evangelicals, and it's Orthodox, but you
Speaker 9: feel familiar, you know what I mean. It's from me.
Speaker 9: It's not as jarring as right.
Speaker 34: Well, my background is French, so I mean I've had
Speaker 34: Catholic in my background, so I mean, and I enjoy
Speaker 34: the you.
Speaker 9: Know, Okay, I mean so good. I'm trying to think too,
Speaker 9: as far as South.
Speaker 34: I'm not for this, you know, the I'm trying to
Speaker 34: get away from that.
Speaker 9: Okay. Well, I mean, I'm just saying if you came
Speaker 9: from that, but I could pick it out.
Speaker 34: If you recommend it, I'll go check it out.
Speaker 9: That's where I was baptized. But I served in a
Speaker 9: really ethnic parish. Uh all Romanian parish and Anaheim. But
Speaker 9: I'm trying to think South County. There's a Serbian parish
Speaker 9: down there. There's a good parish. There's a Serbian parish
Speaker 9: and a Russian parish in uh. And what's the Irvine
Speaker 9: and then what's the lake Forest? So that closer to.
Speaker 34: You, Okay, so Saint Barnabas and then the other one
Speaker 34: is the coast to Mesa.
Speaker 9: And then Father Blosco's parish. I'm trying to remember it's
Speaker 9: like Holy Protection or something like that. I can't remember.
Speaker 9: It's a Serbian parish, it's in Irvine.
Speaker 34: Yeah, that's you said, it's father what's his name?
Speaker 9: I'm sorry, Bloso, let me the parish name is real quick.
Speaker 9: These are people that I know really well and that
Speaker 9: like I can recommend, like as far as the priests, uh,
Speaker 9: let's see.
Speaker 12: I have I have a lot of questions.
Speaker 34: I'm still working through things, so I just want somewhere
Speaker 34: that's kind of open to you know, let's see.
Speaker 9: And then there's a Russian Orthodox Church in uh in
Speaker 9: Lake Forest. St. Barbara's my godfather goes there, so you
Speaker 9: need to, you know, get connected. He to help you out,
Speaker 9: all right.
Speaker 12: So say.
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on, appreciate that journey. Go ahead, Prime minister,
Speaker 1: Prime Minister, I'm you.
Speaker 9: Hey, how you guys doing.
Speaker 15: What's up?
Speaker 35: I don't know if this is the right place to
Speaker 35: bring this up, but I'm a Protestant, kind of grew
Speaker 35: up my whole life Protestant. My father's a pastor, and uh,
Speaker 35: I've just felt really kind of like confused about the
Speaker 35: whole Protestant reform. And I really feel that God has
Speaker 35: called me to the to the Orthodoxy in a way.
Speaker 9: And I I just.
Speaker 35: Joined the space maybe like five minutes ago, but I
Speaker 35: saw that you guys were talking about Orthodoxy, and you
Speaker 35: guys have a father, and here I was wondering if
Speaker 35: I can maybe ask a couple of questions in regards
Speaker 35: to Orthodoxy.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 35: So I've been attending an Orthodox church for a little
Speaker 35: while now, and I know that God is calling me there,
Speaker 35: but I'm just a little confused on the tradition and
Speaker 35: how things work, and uh, just the different denominations within
Speaker 35: orthodox You're a little confusing mainly, I understand that Christ
Speaker 35: came for everybody, but the Eucharist and purgatory are just
Speaker 35: very like confusing topics. So I don't know if you have.
Speaker 1: Orthodox Church doesn't teach purgatory, but we believe in the
Speaker 1: real presence of Christ and the Eucharist. So I would say,
Speaker 1: if you want a good Orthodox book to read to
Speaker 1: get an introduction to those topics as you're attending, check
Speaker 1: out the book Orthodox Dogmatic Theology from Palmazansky. Palmazansky is
Speaker 1: what you want to look at. What's up? I'm mute, beam,
Speaker 1: you're gonna immune? Are you there?
Speaker 11: Oh?
Speaker 1: Hello?
Speaker 9: Hear me? Yeah?
Speaker 36: I was gonna ask you what would you response be
Speaker 36: to the youth frow dilemma? Because I was having a
Speaker 36: discussion with the classman. I guess he was trying to
Speaker 36: bring up that point. My response was that he's I guess,
Speaker 36: creating this false dichotomy, like where you can't separate goodness
Speaker 36: from God.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean it's based on an assumption of Hellenic
Speaker 1: metaphysics too, that the good is the one that you
Speaker 1: can't have distinctions, you know, the essenceentery distinction would be
Speaker 1: something that our metaphysics posits that's different from Greek metaphysics.
Speaker 23: Fernando Fernando, hey Man, sorry about that, Jay, I was
Speaker 23: just wanting to kind of see it, just emphasize, like
Speaker 23: how how important for for me it was when.
Speaker 9: When the whole doctrine of.
Speaker 19: Christian Zionism fell for me like it was, it was freaking,
Speaker 19: like mind blowing. I tried to tell my wife about it,
Speaker 19: and she was like, why is that such a big deal.
Speaker 19: She didn't really see like how explosive it was. But
Speaker 19: I know you mentioned it, like how it's like low tier.
Speaker 19: But man, I was wanting to kind of I think
Speaker 19: the I think the connection with with with Protestants is
Speaker 19: like the connection with end Time's prophecy and like the Jews,
Speaker 19: uh connection with that because I know our pastor would
Speaker 19: our pastor would say like that whenever he would talk
Speaker 19: about revelation and antimes prophecy, like our our attendants would
Speaker 19: like skyrocket.
Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody's obsessed with that stuff because it's it's sensationalist
Speaker 1: and it's, oh, you know, dragons flying around in heaven.
Speaker 1: I remember the seventy Avenue Church here in my town.
Speaker 1: They used to put out these prophecy flyers for their conferences,
Speaker 1: and one of the flyers actually had like they actually
Speaker 1: thought there would be dragons flying around in space in
Speaker 1: the times.
Speaker 9: I just kind of idea you should do, you know how,
Speaker 9: you just sports fool take. You should do like.
Speaker 1: A procy dragons. Yeah, that would be funny, like like
Speaker 1: the book Revelations as a comic book like Avengers or
Speaker 1: something where you know, Robert Downey Junr. Is going to
Speaker 1: fight like dragons coming out of portal helicopter dragons. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean that's why preterism is a sho a valuable
Speaker 1: force to destroy all this nonsense, because if preterism is true,
Speaker 1: all this evangelical nonsense goes out the window. Because those
Speaker 1: prophecies in Luke twenty one Matthew twenty four book Revelation
Speaker 1: are in the historical grammatical historical reference referring to the
Speaker 1: destruction of the Temple in seventy eight D. Plus they're
Speaker 1: powerful proofs of the validity of the New Testament, which
Speaker 1: these idiot evangelicals destroy one of their biggest proofs that
Speaker 1: the Gospels are legitimate, because they're predicting what happened in
Speaker 1: seventy eight D. And all these goobers push all that
Speaker 1: to the end of the world. Roger, Hey, Jake, can
Speaker 1: you hear me?
Speaker 11: Yes, sir? Cool.
Speaker 17: Yeah, So I was just wondering, since your Christian hitch,
Speaker 17: you know, what would be your most orthodox pick up
Speaker 17: line and then have a follow up question.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't make orthodoxy part of a pickup one. That
Speaker 1: was kind of what I argued to my video.
Speaker 17: Oh fair enough, Yeah, okay, I guess I won't ask
Speaker 17: you if it hurt when you fell from heaven then anyway.
Speaker 1: I guess that that sounds like a definitely like a
Speaker 1: Protestant evangelical pickup one for sure.
Speaker 9: Fair enough.
Speaker 17: Yeah. I really enjoyed your debate yesterday with Misfit. It
Speaker 17: was kind of crazy watching him talk it like, I
Speaker 17: don't know, I guess he thinks that like Catholicism is
Speaker 17: some sort of ethnicity. He was making this claim that like,
Speaker 17: since his parents were Catholic, that he much more enjoyed
Speaker 17: his non denomn church over Catholicism. He even called like
Speaker 17: the Catholic Church embarrassing.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of christ And Tristan told me that
Speaker 1: today I quit following that guy as soon as I
Speaker 1: booted him from the room, but Tristan said today that
Speaker 1: he was like admitting, oh, yeah, I don't really care
Speaker 1: about Catholicism. I just said I was Catholic, but I'm not.
Speaker 1: So basically it was lying, uh yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 17: He crashed out pretty pretty bad today on X was
Speaker 17: kind of kind of embarrassing to watch.
Speaker 1: But he also lied about his notes, remember.
Speaker 9: The he broke his vowel silence there. He also lied
Speaker 9: about his notes.
Speaker 37: He claimed that he had notes that he goes, oh, yeah,
Speaker 37: I got some notes that I took, and then he
Speaker 37: starts reading some sort of chat GPT generated slop and
Speaker 37: he thinks he's actually reading scripture, but he's quoting summaries
Speaker 37: of evangelical terrible exegesis of Daniels, and then he goes
Speaker 37: and then Jay calls him out. Jay calls him out,
Speaker 37: and then he goes, oh, well, actually I think you misunderstood.
Speaker 1: This is someone else's notes named Grock.
Speaker 9: Oh I thought the Bible, but it was really the Necronomicicon. Sorry,
Speaker 9: he was reading.
Speaker 38: Thinks pretty sure that he I'm pretty sure he claimed
Speaker 38: that he was he was directly quoting it, and Jay
Speaker 38: kind of interrupted him to point out, like, no, this
Speaker 38: is not these are not quotes, and he kept going,
Speaker 38: He's like.
Speaker 1: No, this is just this is the scriptures.
Speaker 17: That's what the AI and Saints stands for.
Speaker 1: Yes, you're correct, AI and Saints stands for for that.
Speaker 1: Now people have been saying, I don't know anything about
Speaker 1: this dude, but apparently all the there's a bunch of
Speaker 1: background lore to this guy that I had no idea.
Speaker 1: He had like an actual fist fight with Bryson.
Speaker 38: If you say that, they basically.
Speaker 1: They basically fall over in the gravel and just kind
Speaker 1: of like roll over on each other and then Bryson
Speaker 1: punches him. Watching that guy nuts and then Bryson called
Speaker 1: the fight. Bryce is like.
Speaker 6: He he got up and ran away.
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean that was crazy, but well, I mean
Speaker 1: they're both just clowns. I mean it's like two peas
Speaker 1: in a pod there between then two Savio.
Speaker 39: I was watching your YouTube channel the other day and
Speaker 39: I saw that you were having discussions or you had
Speaker 39: a debate, which your naturalist atheist professor. My question is like,
Speaker 39: do you have any of your debates like prior to
Speaker 39: you being on YouTube recorded.
Speaker 1: No, man, there would have been no reason to record
Speaker 1: a debate back in two thousand and five. Okay, my bad, Sorry,
Speaker 1: I mean it would have been interesting, but I basically
Speaker 1: just argued this basic presup. He was an atheist materialist professor.
Speaker 1: He was my philosophy science professor. Forget his name, but
Speaker 1: sincere hypocrite, Yes, sir.
Speaker 12: Your debates against atheists, and I've noticed a lot of
Speaker 12: them come with like Protestant priests oppositions like solid scripture.
Speaker 1: That's a good insight actually, that most atheists are reacting
Speaker 1: to weird Protestant theology sture.
Speaker 12: Yes, sir, I was just wondering why do the atheists
Speaker 12: do that a lot? Like is it just because a
Speaker 12: lot of asists come from Protestants?
Speaker 1: Or yeah, I would say, so, okay, just another question.
Speaker 12: So in mark Mark seven, I think where Jesus heals
Speaker 12: the death Man, Jesus says to like, not tell anyone,
Speaker 12: but they do tell others that Jesus healed them. So
Speaker 12: is this disobedience like a good thing or a bad thing?
Speaker 1: Well, I guess if he disobeyed, it wouldn't be a good.
Speaker 12: Thing, right, But there's many verses like that where Jesus
Speaker 12: heals and he explicitly says don't tell anyone, But yet
Speaker 12: they'll tell people. So why is that something that happens often?
Speaker 1: I think that he just had an intention for certain
Speaker 1: things being kept secret until the work of redemption had
Speaker 1: been complete. And that's why he says, I have many
Speaker 1: things to say to you, Like to the apostles, he says,
Speaker 1: I have many things to say to you, but you
Speaker 1: cannot yet bear them. But you know, he says, like
Speaker 1: when the Holy Spirit comes, then you'll be able to
Speaker 1: deal with it. You'll be able to remember what I
Speaker 1: taught you. So I would assume that it's in anticipation
Speaker 1: of Pentecost.
Speaker 12: Okay, that makes sense, thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is actually a good question. What's hey, Jake?
Speaker 12: Can you hear me?
Speaker 1: Yes, sir, hey man, just a quick question.
Speaker 40: I'm sure you've talked about this a million times, and
Speaker 40: I've just started getting into Christianity and philosophy and all
Speaker 40: of that.
Speaker 9: But I have some you know.
Speaker 40: Non denominational and Protestant.
Speaker 41: Friends and stuff like that, and all of them focus
Speaker 41: on you know, they're kind of just hyper individualists, I
Speaker 41: guess where you know, they just only want to focus
Speaker 41: on the you know, quote unquote relationship with.
Speaker 40: God and that's all important and all that. But how
Speaker 40: do you kind of approach it from the Orthodox perspective?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, in the New Testament, we're taught in
Speaker 1: any places, like in Ephesians, that were members of a
Speaker 1: of a corporate body, of an institution, one Lord, one faith,
Speaker 1: one body, one baptism. So there's no such thing as this,
Speaker 1: you know, individualized situation. It doesn't really exist. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that that means they're in bad faith, but they're
Speaker 1: excluding all of these other aspects of the New Testament
Speaker 1: that say that we do have to be involved in,
Speaker 1: say the corporate worship of the church. Right, So Paul
Speaker 1: says not to forsake the assembling together, you know, and
Speaker 1: when you read all these epistles, it's pretty clear that
Speaker 1: Paul expects that you're going to be going to and
Speaker 1: attending the divine liturgy. So, for example, the things that
Speaker 1: we're that we're told to do is to eat his
Speaker 1: blood and drink excuse me, eat his flesh and drink
Speaker 1: his blood to abide him in John six. Right, And
Speaker 1: so how are you doing that on your own if
Speaker 1: you're not attending the divine liturgy?
Speaker 40: Absolutely perfect, Thanks so much, Jack.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you look at you know, Hebrews eleven.
Speaker 1: If you look at Revelation, you know five or nine.
Speaker 1: The liturgical worship of the Church is the liturgical worship
Speaker 1: ship in heaven, and it's a corporate, collective, universal thing.
Speaker 11: Piccolo here, can you hear me? Yes, I had a
Speaker 11: I had a quick question. So I'm a I'm a
Speaker 11: catech human, but I recently had this thought and it's
Speaker 11: it's about Catholicism. So okay, So when it so you
Speaker 11: you would agree in that the the main reason we
Speaker 11: have icons is too to pick the incarnation of Christ, right.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the root of iconography. But I mean the
Speaker 1: icons also picture the other saints and their windows into heaven.
Speaker 11: Okay, because because I know I believe it was the
Speaker 11: sixth Ecumenical Council where they where It's where they pretty
Speaker 11: much said you can't depict the Father, right it's.
Speaker 1: The seventh seventh, Yeah, I think, But I think Trollo
Speaker 1: might mention it too. So I think Trello and the
Speaker 1: Southern the Council mention it explicitly, and then it's reaffirmed
Speaker 1: in other places. But yeah, we're not supposed to engage.
Speaker 1: The exception to that is like the ancient of days.
Speaker 1: But beyond that, no, we don't depict the hypostasis of
Speaker 1: the Father.
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, I know, I know in the I want
Speaker 11: to say, it's in the ro Corps building in New York.
Speaker 11: They have they have an icon of the Father, but
Speaker 11: it's uncanonical. But but that that, that's besides the.
Speaker 1: Point it has. Yeah, this so this is not always
Speaker 1: strictly adhered to. I would argue it ought to be.
Speaker 1: But like it's not gonna it's not like oh the
Speaker 1: well the church is, you know, doesn't count anymore. They
Speaker 1: they're they're canceled. I mean, people don't always follow the counts,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people don't don't do it knowingly either.
Speaker 11: Okay, Yeah, the point, the point that I was trying
Speaker 11: to make.
Speaker 1: Was also, by the way, hold on one point, there
Speaker 1: is that there are exceptions to that, one of them
Speaker 1: being the Ancient of days. So and I don't know
Speaker 1: which are you talking about the one in San Francisco
Speaker 1: where Saint John's relics are? Oh?
Speaker 11: No, I was, I was, I was refered.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, excuse me out, no, wait, where's uh,
Speaker 1: where's Saint John's relic that's San Francisco.
Speaker 11: Right, I'm I'm actually not sure. I was referring to
Speaker 11: the one in uh in New York.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sorry. I was thinking, l Ah, we've been
Speaker 1: to the Rock Cork Cathedral in West Coast l A.
Speaker 1: Or where I'm all mixed up. I can't you remember. Oh,
Speaker 1: but I didn't think that there was an image of
Speaker 1: the Father there. But there could be, and I'm just
Speaker 1: not aware of it. So you're talking about ro Corp
Speaker 1: Cathedral in New York. What's it called?
Speaker 11: Uh, I'm I'm the name. The name escapes me at
Speaker 11: the moment. I just I just remember, I just remember
Speaker 11: seeing it.
Speaker 1: Uh is it the ancient of days or you don't know.
Speaker 11: I'm not entirely sure, but uh.
Speaker 1: Well, that is that that is an acceptable image of
Speaker 1: the Father. If it's the ancient days, that is what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So, yeah, that's the one exception.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 11: The point that I was trying to make was if
Speaker 11: if the if the Catholics to pict the Father in
Speaker 11: the in their iconography, aren't they in a way saying
Speaker 11: that that, uh, that the Father was incarnate.
Speaker 1: That's exactly the argument of the Moscow iconsent not correct. Okay.
Speaker 11: And then and then uh one. One more question.
Speaker 1: So, by the way, it is uh St. It's Holy
Speaker 1: Virgin Cathedral in San Francisco is what I was thinking of,
Speaker 1: where we visited several years ago. Okay, Holy Vision Cathedral.
Speaker 11: Okay, that's good to have. Other question, so, do you
Speaker 11: have any good book recommendations on like deconstructing Calvinism.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think if you read uh St, cir Ol
Speaker 1: and Alexander their Christological controversy, that will deconstruct Calvinism because
Speaker 1: Christology really undoes it.
Speaker 42: Christopher, Hello, hey, Jay, what's up? I was actually on
Speaker 42: earlier and I thought you were going to get off.
Speaker 42: That was like maybe an hour and a half or
Speaker 42: two of those. I'm glad you're still on.
Speaker 1: Well, I was every time I'm about to quit, then
Speaker 1: people pile in.
Speaker 42: So okay, well, I wanted to just share a quick
Speaker 42: horror story about Christian Zionism.
Speaker 9: If that's okay.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 42: So in my last church that I was in, it
Speaker 42: was a charismatic church and we had a speaker com
Speaker 42: who was a quote unquote prophet, and he came and
Speaker 42: just started preaching and was letting everybody know about U
Speaker 42: over seventh and how Israel was just conducting.
Speaker 1: All of the air you're cutting out.
Speaker 9: I can't hear I'm sorry, can you hear me out?
Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, go ahead, me out Okay.
Speaker 42: So the prophet was saying to everybody that while Israel
Speaker 42: was conducting its uh I guess raids or air raids
Speaker 42: or the bombing stuff. Uh, this guy said that it
Speaker 42: doesn't matter if you agree with it or if you think.
Speaker 9: It's right or whatever you think.
Speaker 42: If it's if you think it's wrong or anything, you
Speaker 42: have to agree with Net and Yahoo. You have to
Speaker 42: pray for Net and Yahoo and for their success. And
Speaker 42: then also during the offering time.
Speaker 1: This is crazy. So basically now the new pope is
Speaker 1: not not Yah. So we have an infallible pope of
Speaker 1: the churche. It's Pope BB.
Speaker 42: I mean.
Speaker 20: I was uh.
Speaker 42: I was sitting in there like like on, I was
Speaker 42: like looking around, and I mean people were just.
Speaker 9: Like hey man, hallelujah.
Speaker 42: And another thing too though, when the uh when the
Speaker 42: offering time came, you know, sometimes they'll have like flag
Speaker 42: flag people that wave flags and stuff like that. They
Speaker 42: had uh Israeli flags. They were waving Israeli flags like
Speaker 42: higher than anything else in the in the church, and
Speaker 42: I just to me, that was such a clear depiction
Speaker 42: of like the deception and how how how deep it runs.
Speaker 1: It's I don't know what your problem is. Clearly the
Speaker 1: New Testament says that Yahoo is the head of the church.
Speaker 1: Simple gospel, Simple gospel. Have to unmute simple gospel. Do
Speaker 1: you want to talk? You have to unmute Anglo?
Speaker 4: Oh hi?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 20: Uh So how's your day good?
Speaker 1: What's something?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 43: I just wanted to I just wanted to bring in
Speaker 43: a question right quick. And it's a question about the
Speaker 43: philiok way. So I wanted to propose to you this
Speaker 43: question right quick.
Speaker 20: So where do you think that the Eastern Orthodox view
Speaker 20: of an issue like the philiog way might be?
Speaker 44: Intellect like we like like we flawed in this sense
Speaker 44: that like if you if like if if the Holy
Speaker 44: Spirit only comes from the Father, would that relegate the
Speaker 44: son to some type of lesser divine of forty Because
Speaker 44: we know that through the Trinity, the Holy Spirit is
Speaker 44: like is of God and stuff.
Speaker 20: So we're talking about the three persons sharing the same
Speaker 20: divine essence. How does the Holy Spirit not come from
Speaker 20: the son unless the son has some type of lesser
Speaker 20: like divine of forty and so in that sense, I
Speaker 20: don't know.
Speaker 1: So this argument is hinging on the idea that to
Speaker 1: lack a hypostatic property would necessitate ontological uh diminished status.
Speaker 1: But that would mean that the Holy Spirit has a
Speaker 1: ontologically diminished status because he doesn't produce a person. So
Speaker 1: if the argument is that the son must produce a
Speaker 1: person to have equality with the Father, is to confuse
Speaker 1: hypostatic properties with natural attributes. So any natural common attribute
Speaker 1: is what all three share. Any hypostatic property is unique
Speaker 1: to that single soul hypostasis because it's what picks that
Speaker 1: hypostasis out. So Bezil says, for example, the Father alone
Speaker 1: is cause in the trinity. That's why the son cannot
Speaker 1: take on cause, because that would make it a father
Speaker 1: son duality with a diminished status Holy Spirit who does
Speaker 1: not produce a person.
Speaker 44: Oh oh okay, yeah, I think that's all I really
Speaker 44: have to say.
Speaker 1: Have a good one, thank you, And you know, check
Speaker 1: out the cappaditions on that, because they're pretty consistent that
Speaker 1: the Father does not in any way share his role
Speaker 1: as cause or arcade or films grant hello, hear me, yes, sir,
Speaker 1: hey uh.
Speaker 13: One of the one of the main things that I've
Speaker 13: struggled with coming from Catholicism is the concept of economia,
Speaker 13: you know, with the legalistic presuppositions and stuff of the West.
Speaker 13: And I was wondering if you have any like book
Speaker 13: recommendations or anything on that.
Speaker 1: I don't know about a book on it. Well, like
Speaker 1: if you watch like if you watch Ubi Patriss's documentaries,
Speaker 1: he gives a lot of good examples as to why
Speaker 1: there's you know, reason for flexibility in the canons.
Speaker 13: Okay, do you know about is are there any like
Speaker 13: examples from the Church Fathers that I could read, like
Speaker 13: like from you know.
Speaker 1: Because because in Ubi's documentaries he cites a lot of
Speaker 1: canonical like on the if you watching the Divorce Remarriage documentary,
Speaker 1: he did, Okay, lot of a lot of that deals
Speaker 1: with Patristic quotations. Okay, that's that's all I really had,
Speaker 1: thanks man. Yeah, that's a good question. Also, the Canons
Speaker 1: of Saint Basil are pretty obviously like not the modern
Speaker 1: Roman Catholic position, yet Rome accepted the Canons of Basil
Speaker 1: from many centuries. Okay, last couple questions here, I'm getting
Speaker 1: kind of worn out.
Speaker 30: Oh here we are, can you hear me, yes, sir,
Speaker 30: Hey you mentioned DTS earlier when that guy was talking
Speaker 30: about the air that a lot of evangelicals make specifically
Speaker 30: with Israel, when they're talking about those who bless Israel.
Speaker 30: We bless those who curse Israel will be cursed. And
Speaker 30: that comes from something that was I heard ad nauseum
Speaker 30: from my preaching professors and throw in.
Speaker 1: Something really quick the refuse that very easily. If you
Speaker 1: read Revelation two and three, when Jesus talks to the
Speaker 1: seven churches of Asia minors through through John right when
Speaker 1: John writes those letters, you'll notice the blessings and cursings
Speaker 1: model is applied to the church, and that means that
Speaker 1: the church that is the inheritor of the blessings and
Speaker 1: the cursings covenant, the old right no longer the type.
Speaker 30: The interesting thing about it was so I lived on
Speaker 30: the campus of DTS for a while, and I wasn't
Speaker 30: a student there. I was a student at another school
Speaker 30: that shared married housing. But I got to be a
Speaker 30: part of all the little seminars and stuff that was
Speaker 30: going on, and in the side the campus was kind
Speaker 30: of split in the professors where they were there was
Speaker 30: like the old guard who were you know, old school dispensationless.
Speaker 30: And then there were the other guys who were trying
Speaker 30: to publish papers at SBL and stuff and kind of
Speaker 30: were secret kind of progressives that they had to.
Speaker 1: Be quiet about.
Speaker 30: And all of my friends who we were trying to
Speaker 30: get papers published at SBL too, we liked those guys,
Speaker 30: and they kind of poo pooed that interpretation of kind
Speaker 30: of the classic evangelic way of thinking about Israel, the
Speaker 30: way they do for a different way to interpret things
Speaker 30: like that's not what the Jews who wrote it thought,
Speaker 30: And it all comes back to like, well, the meaning
Speaker 30: of the text is in what the meaning the jew
Speaker 30: who wrote it thought it meant. And so the classic,
Speaker 30: the classic like example that I was taught was in
Speaker 30: the beginning of Genesis, that's not the Trinity because they
Speaker 30: would have no concept of the Trinity, and therefore that's
Speaker 30: a later delp.
Speaker 1: That's exactly that's exactly where it would lead into like
Speaker 1: you know, humanitarian horn type and nonsense.
Speaker 30: Yeah, and it's funny because it's kind of the same
Speaker 30: words just mean what they say and say what they mean, and.
Speaker 1: The academic that's why they don't believe in typology.
Speaker 30: Yeah, the academic type still rely on that, but they
Speaker 30: think that they're above it by saying, well, that's not
Speaker 30: what I know what the Jew actually thought?
Speaker 9: Who wrote this?
Speaker 30: Because I've read bah blah blah.
Speaker 1: I was just they're committing the very mistake that Paul
Speaker 1: talks about when he says that they follow the letter
Speaker 1: and not the spirit.
Speaker 45: Interesting, all right, thanks, yeah, uh, last comment and we'll
Speaker 45: close it up.
Speaker 1: Jose get on mute because that you want to talk
Speaker 1: good on mute. All right, Well, I don't see anybody else.
Speaker 1: Thank you, guys, a lot of fun tonight.
Speaker 9: It was fun man. Thanks having on us.
Speaker 1: Thank you for hopping on and helping out tonight. I'll
Speaker 1: go out a goodnight