Speaker 1: What is up, Fellawsiko's I Am Dana Velly coming at
you with the One, the Only, the indallible, the Certified man, fabulous,
mister Grant Hues. We're finally on to our awards show.
So we got to see every single regular season yet.
Well I don't watch that well, so I didn't see
any regular season yet.
Speaker 2: But the regular season is over.
Speaker 1: These are our final awards picks. We are not trying
to predict who will win, although we'll probably get into
some of that somewhere about. We think player X will
be announced as the winner. We also another reason to
join our discord. The link is in the YouTube podcast description.
A few of you asked that we would do made
up awards, and I think that might actually be a
fun show next year if we have more time to
prepare for it. But our discord members sended a bunch
of different fake award categories.
Speaker 2: We picked some of our favorites.
Speaker 1: We will go through those at the end, and if
there's time, we will get into some of the breaking
news items that have happened around the league and then
be on the lookout for. As of now, the plan
is no super concrete promises. We will have our playoff
previews up in time for the game ones that begin
this coming Saturday, before we belly flop into our final
Award talk Talk of the season, Grant, how are you
doing well?
Speaker 3: The two topics are related because I texted you ten
minutes before we came on and started recording and told
you I had changed my MVP choice, and so I'm
going through it. I don't like tell me if you well,
we'll get to it, but like just real quickly, like
you agonize over these probably more than I do. And
first and I went into this thinking like this isn't
that important, just like don't consume a lot of like
other people's picks and just go with what you think
is right, like trust the numbers, trust gut, trust your whatever.
And like even with like half the league being ineligible
for everything, I still was just like, oh, I changed
so many picks so many times that I don't feel
great about almost any of it.
Speaker 1: So I went about it by filling out because we're
doing this so much later, I filled out my initial
ballot and then I listened and read things only situations
where and I kind of forced myself not to change anything.
You do know, I was slip flopping on Rookie of
the Year is what I found the toughest MVP, of course,
and I've struggled a lot over the meaning of most
improved Player, and I think like I've kind of finally
settled on what i want my criteria to be.
Speaker 2: But it's you. You just you agonize over it.
Speaker 1: And I'm just, what did the League office say when
you message them to ask if you could change your
MVP pick after the votes were doing. They're like you,
They're like, you filled out the spreadsheet and then you
sat on it for four days, didn't you, and then
you readdressed it and you're like, who even made these picks?
Speaker 3: And I said, that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: Well, let's not make this we Well, I guess we'll be. Well,
I'll make us contentious with one. I'll get mad at
you for something, but hopefully let us know your awards
picks in the comments if you're watching this on YouTube
or in our discord. As usual, though, we were just
going to get off and running MVP. We have the
same We actually have the almost we have the same
top four. So I'll just throw the top four out there.
Speaker 2: You'll catch it.
Speaker 1: One Shay it to Tatam at three, Yannis at four.
We each have different we'll get into. I think the
debate Grant correct me if I'm wrong. I think people
have been caught up whether it should be Shay or Jokic,
and I ended up being of the mind that I
really do think and I believe this that you could
choose anyone and be correct, and so I defaulted here too.
I think Jokic is the best player in the world.
I think that he's more indispensable to the Nuggets, and
that's not Shay's fault because I think he's better than
Shae in a vacuum.
Speaker 2: That ended up being my differentiator here this year.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So when I had Shae at number one an MVP,
which I did for almost a week, probably after really
spent I think most of the year we just had Jokic,
both of us did. I flipped to Shae because I
found myself and I'm sort of gonna make the case
for Shae even though I picked Jokic. We'll circle back,
I guess, but like we need to. We're gonna need
to burn some calories on this, I think, because it
is sort of the biggest part of the awards season
and has been the biggest part of the discourse all year.
So I found myself when it came to Shae, like,
you don't have to like talk yourself out of any
of what he did as like somehow not consequential or
somehow it's just easier to look at Jokic's case and say, like, well,
his team wasn't as good as Shay's. Okay, there's there's one,
and like the catch alls are pretty close, and in fact,
Shay's got the edge, and I think more than more
than most. Like if you just pile up all the
alphabet soup stuff, I think Shay probably has I know
he does an EPM. I think he's got him in Lebron.
You can go down the list like defensive box plus
minus and stuff like that seems to love Jokic. Don't
know what to do with that, but like, Okay, if
that's close to a wash, Shay's team was exceptional. He's
a better defensive player at the thing he's asked to
do than Jokic's And it's just kind of like and
then you get to like, well, what would Shay have
needed to do to win MVP If he's not going
to win it this year, and it's like, because you
just can't have a guard, like sort of can't have
a better season than this. It's almost impossible, like all
the all the best since Michael Jordan in what nineteen
eighty seven or whatever, like all this crazy stuff. So
and then I agreed the whole time that Jokic is
the best player in the world. I was looking at
this season and that's what was making me go with Shay.
And then I just get down to it, and it's like,
the Nuggets offense is better with Jokic on the floor
than the Thunders is with Shay on the floor. Shay
has better supporting talent. I think, certainly defensively, I don't
think Shay's role on defense is as important as the
one Jokic plays. Shae Guard's the fourth or fifth best
guy a lot of the time. I'm not knocking him.
I'm just like, this is what circled me back, and
I just I really got fixated on this last thing,
and I'll throw it to you because I still am
wrestling with it. I'm very convinced that if Jokic had
not won multiple MVPs in the past and we had
just parachuted into this season and you looked at his
numbers and you watched him play this season, you would say,
this is the greatest season anyone's ever had. You'd like,
averaging triple doubles just like can shoot three, like can
nothing he can't do, Like this is an insanely dominant season.
And I hate the voter fatigue thing, but I I
feel it. I'm feeling it for real, because I think
if you took me and said, just look at these
two seasons, pretend one guy hasn't basically been doing this
for half, like almost a decade, I would say, like, well,
the guy averaging a triple double and insane efficiency and
playing center, I would be like, that's just better. And
so I think I had to check myself and like
really admit that the fact that Jokic has been this
great for a long time, it like made me not
appreciate that, in fact, he's even greater now, and that
like felt unfair. So I pivoted all the way back
around to Jokic, and like, if you pick Shay, you didn't,
but the general you like, I get it, Like I
got nothing for you.
Speaker 1: And there's that's it. I never felt the voter for
tigue seeping into me, and I don't know if it
actually like I get the argument about, like are we
appreciating what Jokic is doing because of like that voter
for Tagus in the back of your mind, the Thunder
having this season, there's all this drama in Denver. And
just to add to Shay's case, two things that stood
out is, yes, he has better talent around him, but
when you look at the half court creation talent around him, hm,
it's in the fifth percentile. Collectively, his teammates were in
the fifth percentile of half court creation, even Jokic's teammates
were like in the high thirties. It's like, that's a
huge lift from Shay. And this still speaks the Thunder's
roster construction. Grant, They're only three teams. This is per
b Ball Index that lost more value to injuries this
year than the Thunder.
Speaker 3: That's a wild number. I've seen that a couple different
places for it, Like, how is that possible?
Speaker 1: I mean, like, kudos to Sam pressI for building your stross,
the players for developing the way that they have, Like
hell yeah. But I think that that might be the
most pervasive argument here is that if you were just
to kind of chopper into this season and look at
it without knowing Yokic had won multiple MVP Awards already.
Is would you still vote for Shane? And I actually
think more people would still vote for Shae because of
how much value And I really do believe it. It
depends on your interpretation of value. Is No, I'm not
basing this and maybe in years past I did. On
the on off splits, look at how much it swings
with Jokic and like the offensive on off splits with
Shay are pretty fucking insane too, But like that is
part of the value to me, like other people might be,
like he's on a team that flirted with almost seventy
games and they dealt with these injuries and like that
anecdotal stuff is certainly part of it. When it's this close, though,
I'm gonna default towards And I think the argument against
my logic to it to where I think that it's
close is do you think that Jokic is incapable of playing?
Like is the Nuggets? Are they so heliosentric with him,
so dependent on him that it actually does them a disservice?
And is that to some extent his fault.
Speaker 3: I think it's actually opposite. I think if you put even, yeah,
even better talent around him, he would be even more
positively impactful. Like he's he's the ultimate. Like there's no
there's no set of talent you could put around him
that you'd be like, I don't know if that's gonna work.
You know, it's just like the better the talent gets
around him, the better the whole thing gets. Because he's
purely an additive player.
Speaker 1: And the other thing that I don't and I haven't
seen voter fatigue thrown around a lot. I think a
lot of people preemptively scold people for it, but I
do think it just exists. Like I think the way
you framed it was was the best. And if you,
if anyone takes the stance, if this is your argument
for why we're wrong, that it's Shay's turn, or that
Jokic already did this, or that it's just the thunder
one this many games, I can't stress this enough. That
does more of a disservice to Shay than it does
to Jokic. It's not Shay if Shay is gonna win it,
by the way, So what me Grant are saying right now.
It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. He's
going to win it. He deserves to win it. There
are two players who deserve to win MVP this year,
So you need to splay hairs. But don't for and
this is again maybe I'm yelling at cloud straw Man
argument whatever, don't for a minute frame this as like, well,
it's Shay's turn, because Shay is so much better than
it just being his turn. If it's his turn, it's
because he went and grabbed the award from Yokic, which
he might have. And I thought, I don't know how
much I struggled with how much I wait because it's
not Shaye's fault that he has better talent around him,
and it's not I looked at Yokic this season was
even more amazed that he basically kept the dysfunction in
Denver going right because he's papering over it by being
so transcendent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is that's I thought about that too, where
it's like, Okay, you if you if you're gonna we
are splitting hairs. You just sort of have to like
you do need to account for the fact that, like
clearly the vibes in Denver have been bad all year
and like he's just been the same. Like it it's
you know, none of that poisons him, if anything. Like
I think it's fairly clear that were he not there,
it's just like, oh, this would have I mean, everything's different.
Obviously you sort of can't really imagine that hypothetical. But
I do think he deserves credit for playing at this
level with this amount of consistency over this much volume,
with what's going on like front office coaching, like the
whole deal. Like that's that does like that is a
credit to him, I think. And it's like, well, that's
unfair because Shay happens to be in like a high
functioning organization and like he didn't have the opportunity to
prove he That's not to say he couldn't have, like
you know, had the same kind of positive impact on
a negative situation, but like, I don't know, Jokic deserves that.
That's part of his case, A small part maybe, but
it's not it's not a zero, right, And I.
Speaker 1: Do think it's fair when it matters, when it's this
close to where it's like, well, where would the Bucks
be if you ripped Giannis off their team? This season,
like it's just it's different, like when you're talking about
it at this level. I think we've kind of covered
the bases. On one, they're both spectacular. Shay is going
to win, deserves to win. Either one of these guys
should win.
Speaker 2: Tatum.
Speaker 1: We both have Tatum at three and you Honis at four.
I came very close. We both have had Giannis at
three at various points this year. I came close to
changing it back to just the playmaking since the Dame injury,
and you factor in the mid range improvement. I really
just feel like we're at the point where Jason Tatum
is underappreciated. And I never thought I'd say this about
a nineteen year old, but just why can't we like this.
He's always playing, he's really good on defense, he's really
good on offense. I do think the two things that
probably work against him is he hasn't proved as a
playmaker a great deal over the past three years. But
because he never has like the jokicch assists or the
Donchic assist numbers steadily, that works against him.
Speaker 2: And then kind of just the other thing.
Speaker 1: And by the way, this was what I struggled with
when I was looking at Shaye and Jokic. Do you
ever watch I think even Lebron at his peak, Maybe
not Lebron at his peak, but like trying to a
good example, Tatum is the example where you could tell
they're having an off night. And then with Shaye and
Jokicic's well, I feel like they had an off night.
You look at the stat lot, it's like, well, they
still just filled it. Yeah, So Tatum can have those
weird where it feels like seven of eighteen nights or something,
So maybe that works against him. But I'm just at
the point where it's I don't know that there's a
more well rounded player in the NBA right now than Jao.
Speaker 3: I was gonna use the word complete, and I think
it's sort of like what I said about Jokic, where
Tatum is additive, full stop. Jannie is like Jannis is great.
I don't even know why we're like we're gonna say
Yannis isn't like historically great, because he is, and he's
playing about as well as he's ever played, with the
exception maybe of some of the defensive stuff. Even that,
it's not like he's a negative anything close to that.
I think if you had to make some distinction, it
would be like, yeah, Yannis is still kind of like
slightly harder to build around than Tatum. You have to
change a few things. But that's also just an acknowledgement
that Tatum is like the ideal player to build around,
Like he just Okay, what are you sacrificing by having
Tatum on the flick? Nothing? He's just everything works however
you structure it around him.
Speaker 1: At five, I had Evan Mobley where I just feel
like his season has almost been under like I see
people put Donovan Mitchell in this spot, which is kind
of wild when you think about like two players, like
you could debate with a straight face, like do they
belong on First Team All NBA or Top five and
MVP voting. I recognize that Mobley doesn't fill the box
score and like as a scorer as much. Almost every
aspect of his game is better. He's tripled his three
point volume basically on like an attempt basis been pretty
efficient doing it. He is more efficient overall as a
self created shot maker. His passing in traffic is better.
We've talked about this multiple occasions. He can handle finishing
through contact way more now and then you now come
like attach that to what he does on defense, where
he's okay, he's contesting a smaller percentage of shots around
the rim, He's still the best defensive player for a
really good defensive team. He toggles, he can toggle, he
can do the center stuff, he could do the perimeter stuff.
He can play with another center like defensively, and they
can mix and match that way, and like the numbers
support it, Like even when you're talking about Jared Jackson
junior in theory can do the same. The defensive numbers
with him at center for Memphis are not what they
are for Moble in Cleveland. And by the way, when
Mobley's in center in Cleveland, the lift is in theory
heavier because who are the great defenders.
Speaker 2: There's Isaaca Korro.
Speaker 1: They did get DeAndre Hunter at the trade deadline, but
you're not talking about and like dem Wade is good
but can't play a ton, So there's talent there. I
don't want to like pooh pooh everyone else on the roster,
but his lift on defense I think is heavier than
people give him credit for. The versatility is I think
everyone recognizes that, and so you couple that with the
offensive growth. I kind of looked at it and said, Okay, well,
Cleveland has been one of the two best teams in
the league this season, and I think he's been. Now,
if you were getting into most indispensable, I think that
your pick actually makes more sense. But I think that
he's just been the most important player to the second
best team in the league.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, even on mobile, I think Mobley's a
fine pick I ran into, Like, I think Mitchell is
sort of the consensus guy that's maybe gonna get this spot.
I would I might even pick Garland over it, like honestly,
like I Mitch, I would put Mobley for sure. But
the whole calv it's hard to separate the Calves from
each other in this context because it's like, well, they're
all awesome, Like I just I don't know what to
so spoiler, I put all I put three of them
on my second team. So I went with Steph and uh,
you know, PSA, Like, obviously I'm biased. I watched the
Warriors more than I watch any other team, and I
what I see when I watch them is like, this
guy is just like singularly impactful on every play no
matter where he is, and changes everything about what all
nine other players on the court are doing. He I
think has the highest degree of difficulty. I mean probably
that's diminished by Jimmy Butler's presence. Certainly it was true
before the Butler trade, and even after, it's not like
teams guard him any differently, Like he still is the
singular focus all the time, and he's still highly productive
his shot diet, Like he just takes and makes very
hard shots and like has to for the offense to function.
The numbers are all great enough to be here, just
sort of independently, but I think those combined with just
the sheer, the weight of the lift, the degree of difficulty,
however you want to phrase it, like him exelling so
consistently against like game plans and personnel groupings that are
designed entirely do stop him from doing what he wants
to do every night. Like it's just I can't deny that.
I think. I think it's just it's it's it's enough.
I'm not doing this as like a lifetime achievement thing either.
I think, like this year he really is. Maybe I'm
saying he is one of the fifth most five most
valuable players in the league.
Speaker 1: Do you know what, I think kind of reinforce his
case even more so post Jimmy Butler. Traders like, oh,
they put more talent around him and he just got better.
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, It's like imagine, if you know what we've seen,
what it looks like when he has tons of in
prime talent. He wins unanimous MVPs, like he's he's not
as quick as that guy, but like he might like
overall be like actually better than what he was ten
years ago. It's just the talent around him isn't the same.
Speaker 1: I will go through my all NBA teams with throwing
it to you. My first team All MBA is just
the same as my MVP ballot Jokic, SGA, Tatum, Giannis,
and Evan Mobley on second team, I have Staph made
it for me, Donov Mitchell made it for me, Kate
Cunningham made it for me, Anthony Edwards, and Lebron James
made it for me.
Speaker 2: Lebron was tough. The numbers are just GOGA.
Speaker 1: I know what the on off stuff is, but I
think people say, like, well, image if he played this
way the entire year rather than just twenty twenty five.
The offensive numbers have just been there, There's been some
defensive improvement. I've even seen him getting some first team love.
He came close to making I ended up bumping Garland
to move up Cunningham and Lebron. I still don't think
that like we not you and I necessarily, but like
the gravity of Kate Cunningham season feels like it still
might just be setting in for everyone. This is twenty
five plus points nine as sists hit more than fifty
percent of his two's training. Lebron, Donca Jokic, Harden, and
Oscar Robinson are the only players who've ever done that.
It's like, this is someone who's also improved offensively as
a rebounder. He's really helped their transition attack more. Anthony Edwards,
I go back and forth on him too, Like second
team ended up being really hard.
Speaker 2: Steph was just easy.
Speaker 1: I gave him first team an MVP consideration as well.
Donovin Mitchell another easy second team inclusion for me. Edwards,
I still wonder, like, can you build an offense that
is sustainably better than unflavored oatmeal with him? And I
don't know, because there's like interesting peaks, but he is
sometimes part of the limitations at the same time the
three point shooting coupled with what he can do on defense,
how important is driving and room pressure is? And I
look at him and say, like, oh, I wish he
was twenty percent better as a passer, and like he's
still good enough as a passer even if he reverts
to the old habits. So that's my second team. Third team,
I have Darius Garland Jaron Jackson Junior, who kind of
the last quarter.
Speaker 2: Of the season, he had a second team case.
Speaker 1: I feel like until the last I try to I
try to keep perspective on it being the entire year,
but if we start talking about a quarter of the season, like,
it's not gonna take you off all NBA for me,
but it bumped him down a team. I have Towns
in Brunton. I think Brunton might have been second team
had he just he ended up hitting the sixty five
game minimum. So I wanted to reward some guys who
were like Kate Comingham seventy games, and I think Brunton
was part of some of the knicks problems, definitely defensively
at points, with the weak points that he allows offenses
to attack.
Speaker 2: Towns has been great.
Speaker 1: The numbers are there, but he's just it feels like
he can play one and a half types of defense
and that that's a problem.
Speaker 2: And I know the Knicks are twelfth in point slot
per possession.
Speaker 1: They are zero to eight against the Cast and the
South is combined and like they're getting torched by those dudes. Now,
my third team inclusion, it came down between Siakam, Halliburton
and Domas a Bonis. For me, I went with Domas
Abonis Halliburton. He's been fantastic and had he played like
this all year, I would have picked him, but he
was just not this version for twenty five games or so,
and that's a lot. I thought about Siakam because I
think maybe he's been the best wired to wire player here.
The Kings have won the minutes with Sabonis on the court.
This is the second time he's clear fifteen points, ten
boards in five assists on sixty five are better true shooting.
Joll Kich is the only other player who's ever done that,
and so like he stretched the floor a little bit.
I know the on off splits aren't is great, especially
post Iaron Fox trade. He poses limitations defensively to this
regular season Award though, and why or why are he's
been really good and the fact that he's done it
with he's had to assume a couple of different roles
because of just the ground shifting around him. And I
don't think that's through any fault. You have a problem
with the way the Kings look up, maybe take it
up at the front office.
Speaker 2: Who decided to build Bulls East is just.
Speaker 3: And are shock like, huh, I can't believe this is
working on It's has.
Speaker 2: Been pretty rough when Levigne and Domas and run.
Speaker 3: Well and look, if we're gonna credit I guess I
did it, But I think we both agree, like credit
Jokic for just continuing to be a rock amid you know,
some pretty stormy seas like organizationally, I think Sabonis might
like take the cake there because like he's just been
through it all with that and like, no, the King, Well,
the Kings did fire their coach, that was the thing
that happened. They're probably gonna fire their top.
Speaker 1: Executive grant like a responsible organization. They did it with
more than ten games left to play.
Speaker 3: It yeah right right. Just that's all to say, Sabonis
deserves like some good citizen credit for you know, not do.
All he's doing is set clarity at the end of
the season. He's not.
Speaker 1: He's not like, you know, pitching a fit which team
probably should be. Do you have before we go through
your bout, do you have any questions about mine that
you find it?
Speaker 3: No, I think it's all reasonable. Like we're we're pretty close.
I think maybe as I'm looking now before you pull
mine up, there's two or three differences. And basically everybody
that isn't on your first, second or third team, or
that I that I don't have is like on a
on honorable mention, like fourth team or like tough emissions. Basically, well,
can you please take us through your all NBA ballot?
Then yes, So first team is same as the MVP ballot.
It's just Jokic, Shay Tatum, Yannis steph Uh. Then I
just calves it up on the second team and no
one else. I just like, all these guys are first
team consideration. So sorry, Mitchell, Mobley and Garland are all there,
Lebron is there. Just give like the teensiest bit of
first team consideration to Lebron and Edwards and really everybody
here got like a little bit at some point so
I would echo everything you said about Edwards. I think
that's really well stated. It's just like there are flaws,
Like they're the playmaking, the passing decisions, the defensive like
like he's in third gear for a lot of the time,
and then like fifth gear is still pretty spectacular, but
it's just not always there. It's but he's still just
like such an overwhelming player that I just and the
three point revolution that he underwent this year is like,
I mean, he can't be blower than second team for me.
Lebron's still great, So third team, I think is where
we have a couple differences. So I also have Brunson.
I did move kid down to second to third team,
which I don't feel good about. I think again, like
he's going to feature in some other awards. We'll talk
about Jaron Jackson, same thing. It's a full season award,
so he makes it there. The offensive growth is still
a great defender. I have Tarry's Haliburton. I think I
skew towards like role, like importance of role versus like Sabonis,
just to draw the comparisons, Like I think Caliburton is
just so integral and is such a value add all
the time on offense, and Sabonis is that too. It's
a tough call. I have alprin Shangoon, Like, I don't know,
we got to credit somebody for the rockets, like and
it's not I'm not just tossing it off, but like
he has proven to be good enough defensively to be
a key part of an awesome defense. Like he's not
the reason they're good. There's I don't know, three to
five players you might mention before him, but he plays
center for a team that is an awesome defense, like
he's not hurting it. And then offensively, he's got a
lot of the same Sabonis stuff minus the stretch of
just is a great passers you know, has been has
been super productive, has gotten those jokic light comparisons, which
are silly, but like the numbers are kind of there.
So yeah, really, I think where this gets interesting is, well,
do you have any any questions like quibbles before we
get to like, oh my god, I don't know if
you have the honorable mention slide stuff, But like the
fourth team is stacked too, and it's full of guys.
It's like, how could we not fit them?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: So yeah, before we can, Well, I guess I want
to mention some names that would be on the fourth
team honorable mentions, which we have a lot of the same.
Speaker 2: We both have all spoiler like Ofviatazoo.
Speaker 3: Absolutely this last like month of the year, it's like
it was like, oh God, I'm like, I'm shorten this
guy way too much in like several categories. He's great,
So leaving Karl Anthony Towns off, I think it's going
to be seen as somewhat controversial.
Speaker 2: What is the impetus behind that?
Speaker 3: I guess it comes down to two things. While acknowledging
that like offensively he's spectacular, he's not the most important
offensive player on his team. And I think defensively it's
it's sort of just an echo of what you said.
It's like, I think he's a problem defensively, like he's
he's the biggest Well, I guess you'd throw Brunson in there,
but Brunson doesn't play nearly as important of a position. Defensively,
I think Kat's poor rim defense, which got better, Like
I'm not anchoring to the beginning of the year, where
was the number was like opponents were shooting like eighty
percent at the rim or something.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that number held fairly like Serve against
the Celtics in particular, right.
Speaker 3: I think I think he takes a lot off the
table and that has and look I have him, I
have him honorable mention like I have him as like
a fourth quote unquote fourth team guy. I think Shangoon
just that's probably the guy I would bump if I
had to put Kat on a team, but I don't.
I think I might put zubats if I had to.
If I had to take somebody from honorable mentioned territory,
I think it's probably Zubatsuh.
Speaker 1: I kind of not that I wish I did this
in retrospect, but if you were gonna bump Towns or
if you were gonna have I definitely would have the
name that I struggled with the most. It came down
to a pacer of whether it was Tyre's Haliburt or
Pascal Siakam. I actually like wire to wire season has
been underappreciated, like kind of offensively, and then he helped
solve a lot of their defensive issues. So if you
were gonna leave off Towns, I probably would rather Seekam
over Shangoon or Haliburn, but like I think Shang Gooon
is like my bit would be my biggest contestable point here,
and that's just okay, Well, look at what he did
for the Rockets.
Speaker 3: Yeah, some other names maybe have so James Harden, I
mean late push uh and and both of us. This
will be a surprise Jadab did not make one of
the Actually, Jadab's probably gonna make a real life team,
don't you think.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So when I after I fill in my ballad and
I was reading and listening to stuff, I was actually
surprised at how many people had him on one of
the three teams.
Speaker 2: I think it's perfectly fine, Like I'm not mad about it,
but I was. I was a little bit surprised.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I just I mean sorry, Like all these
fifteen guys we have are spectacular, there's only so many spots.
Speaker 1: Well, and it's like that's with like Kevin Durant not eligible,
I mean what you picked him with what happened?
Speaker 2: I mean, like Wentby not eligible? There, chat Holmgrin not eligible.
Speaker 3: So well, usual suspects like Bam, like Bam would be
in this Anthony Davis, Like there's so many guys that
for one reason or another. Aren't there that normally would
be like, of course Anthony Davis and Bam are going
to be in the mix.
Speaker 1: So if you had your fictional fourth team, what are
the you have to narrow down to five? I know
you listed like twenty names I got, so.
Speaker 3: My fictional fourth team would be siakham, Kat, Zubots, Harden,
and Jadab.
Speaker 2: We're actually pretty similar.
Speaker 1: I have hardened Halliburt and Zubots, j Dub and Siakam
there with you know Trey Young, although he did he
was being a petulant little crap hole playing game, but
I gave him some consideration there too. Can you take
us through the Defensive Player of the Year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so here we are in lockstep at number one.
We both have Evan Mobley. I think you mentioned a
lot of what warrants his position here in the All
NBA and MVP stuff. To me, I think, to me,
like this is some.
Speaker 2: Like proprietary metrics.
Speaker 3: My proprietary metrics have him as insanely versatile an excellent
room protector, and like that's good enough when you're great
at those two things to be a defensive Player of
the Year. This is the you know, let's all nudge
each other and say, Wemby like is just the best
defensive player in the league and he doesn't qualify, so
but hey tough, you gotta make it through the year.
And Mobley did, uh, I mean, I don't know what's
the case against him, Like I did you think very
hard about another person, like seriously, because I think Mobley
was I just like I'm not. I didn't waver very
much on it.
Speaker 1: No, he was my actual clear cut I thought when
we did this at like the three quarter mark, and
Wemby had been what we knew he was going to
be ineligible. Jared Jackson Junior's case was so much stronger.
But you dig into the minutes he spends at center,
they're not like great or as good as they should be.
And then coupled with the Grizzlies down slide there didn't
help him. This felt like a clear I've seen the
case against him, or I've seen others pit John Hollinger
had Amen Thompson. I still generally am of the mind
that it's tougher for perimeter based players to shape defenses
as much. But Mobley, I think more than Ahmen, more
than even Bam, Like he blurs the line between everything
because of what he does, and I think the strongest
not the I didn't even find it very compelling, but
the I guess the most common case I saw against
him was well, teams are going at him late in games,
and I view that as more of like I went
back and watched some of it, and I felt, this
is my my you're my proprietary impressions are. I just
felt like they did that to make his focus more singular,
and it was we don't want him being able to
muck up things, either near the basket or just as
a help defender.
Speaker 2: And that's how I interpret it. Maybe that's the wrong
way of looking at it.
Speaker 1: And I also didn't find it like a grecious for
most of the year at least, but there are some
people that did, but I didn't. I have other people
in my bout, but this was like with wem be Gone,
there was mobile and then there was like kind of
a gap for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so too, So I had we. I
love that we're we have different number two and number
three and like, I can't argue with any of yours
because it's just these guys are all so good. So
I have Draymond too. Look, I'll admit the bias again.
Speaker 2: Are you a subscriber?
Speaker 3: I get right. I still I still think you're not
going to find someone that is reading and diagnosing and
like putting out fires faster. I still think he is
the best defensive like mind in the NBA. And there's
enough in like the physical toolkit still to where like
you don't ever go at him, like like I don't care,
Like there's no point guard, there's no wing. That's like,
oh good, I got Draymond switched on to me, Like
that's an absolute non starter somehow as a good room
protector at six' five or. Whatever it's just like he's you,
know if we, talk we keep bringing up like well
rounded and, complete like as a, DEFENDER i don't know
who's more. COMPLETE i Think mobile just has the youth
and length and athleticism. Advantages mobile's not a smarter defender
like And mobile, Like and, again no one goes At,
Draymond SO i THINK i feel good with him, There
and THEN i did Put thompson. Third his case is just.
Different there's some of the versatility. STUFF i just think
like from a pure like athleticism and physicality, standpoint he's
just like the most, intimidating terrifying guy on and off
the ball because of like just how quickly he's able to,
move how explosive he, is and how aggressive he is.
Defensively so he's about as high AS i can go
with a. Wing if you even really want to call
him a. WING i don't even know WHAT i would
call him, positionally because he's all over the. PLACE i
struggled with.
Speaker 1: HIM i, mean he's gonna make my first Team All,
defense but it was sort of LIKE i view it
through a similar lens as the Thunder, Towards like The
rockets have so many good defensive, players and it was,
like If i'm not trying to Force Jalen williams Or
Lou dort into the top, THREE i wasn't gonna do
it with AND I i think it's like an amen
maybe been playing all these minutes from the start of the.
Year that would have made it easier for. Me but,
yeah it's JUST i think you can go with, Anything.
DRAYMOND i do Think i'm not saying you're doing, this
and he's been, spectacular BUT i really do think that
there's been he can't paigne for.
Speaker 2: This at the end of the. Year some people are, like,
oh you know, What, yeah, like, yeah he might be.
Speaker 1: RIGHT i think he's been, great but there was just
like maybe so much the beginning of the, year but
it felt like there was just like this chunk of
the season where it wasn't the same and maybe he
wasn't he was an active participant in.
Speaker 2: It he didn't.
Speaker 3: Suck, Yeah BUT i also.
Speaker 1: Think this is kind of the year WHERE i, think
based off who was available eligible to make this, team
you probably could have selected like twenty first team all defense.
Guys And i'm not gonna give like a ton of
pushback on.
Speaker 3: It, yeah make The zubat's case Because i'm glad you have,
him AND i won't. Argue oh, wait you haven't even
talked About bam.
Speaker 1: Yet bam is my number, Two which is funny BECAUSE
i think this IS i had him in my top
THREE i think at the beginning of the, year and
then he never appeared here. AGAIN i just he were
eighth in points allowed per possession and the defensive talent
around him is like some of the advanced metrics like.
It AND i Know Jimmy butler was there for a,
minute but like kind of not at he wasn't really there,
right and like you Have Hayward, highsmith but it's like
him a hawk as junior ended up with his face
on a milk carton like we SAW i Khalil ware
might have a ton of, Promise LIKE i don't view
that dude as, like, yeah when they're, side when you
have two bigs in the, front like that's not someone
who's elevating your, Defense like you're playing With jovic and
you've played WITH i mentioned. Hero The Terry rozier minutes
have been disaster this. YEAR i think he probably wins
it if he's just a better rim protector because he
kind OF i think part of that was like personnel
and the responsibility he's. Shouldering but last year they were sort, of,
oh look at What BAM's doing at the, rim and
that was gone this. Year zubos is the most important
Or i'll, say the highest volume defender on what IS
i would say if you're just looking forget about the.
Numbers even though they have the second best defense against
top ten, OFFENSES i think The clippers have the second
most dangerous defense in the league Behind Oklahoma city with
The maybe The rockets should be thrown in.
Speaker 2: There Of Golden.
Speaker 1: State zubots' rim protection has been, great but, like look
at the minutes he, plays look at what he's able
to do on the perimeter and help blow up plays.
Speaker 2: There that is, like this.
Speaker 1: Is someone WHO i don't know if we we definitely
weren't talking about him like this a half decade or so.
Ago he's in the eighty eight percentile of opponent field
goal percentage allowed at the rim versus. Expected he's just
been like an anchor for just this terrific defense all year.
Long AND I i think when you measure that rim
protection against, well like kind of look at what he's
had to do against some of like quicker players are
coming to the outside and like being able to defend
these different types of actions like with screens and like
tracking both sides of the pick and. Roll i've just
been really impressed with him this, year and so HE
i think he shouldered a more complex defensive workload while
getting better and shouldering a more complex offensive. Workload that
doesn't factor in, here but that's definitely a feather or
eight in his.
Speaker 3: CAP, Yep i'm glad you had him, again like and
bam IS i. Was i'll be, HONEST i was surprised
to See, bam even THOUGH i do remember early on
you had, him and it's, like, well, yeah of, COURSE
i think he's a good example of like sometimes we
just sort OF i don't, know LIKE i have dream
on on my, ballots so it's not like BUT i
think like we can sort of forget like the obvious
sometimes or we're looking for the next, whatever and And
bam is, again and like the rim protection is always
outside of like last year for, sure in a couple
other years been like you want more out of him
rim protection, wise BUT i, mean the guy's been the
defensive anchor on finals teams and the guy like he.
Is maybe we KEEP i keep bringing this, up but
it's like it's true of all the great really great
big guy, defenders like you never go a go at this,
guy like it's he's an avoid at all, costs like
if you're if you're on the. Ball SO i like
that you have him. THERE i think it's, uh we we.
MAY i think there's a chance like next year he'll
just be right here again and it'll be, like, yeah
what were we what were we? Doing like why why
he be playing for when he's, well great question can
you take us through all your all defense? TEAM i
Have mobile, Obviously, Green am And. Thompson that's my one
two three on DP. O WHY i also Have Jared jackson.
Junior he he again he fits the same bill as
like He's. Mobile he's a good roving rim. Protector he
makes a mess of offensive, possessions hard guy to go.
At doesn't have a lot of weaknesses, defensive accept for the.
Fouling and that gave me a lot of pause because
it's just you really can't watch a game and not
like actually just in real, time be, like well that
was you can't do, That like that was a dumb you.
Know he did it against The wars in the playing,
game had a foul ninety feet from the, basket and
it's just, like what are we, like how how is
this still? Happening so small reservation does not detract from
the whole. Thing So Jalen williams makes my first. Team,
Uh and that has a lot to do with him
being probably the best rim protecting wing in the league
and he played center for a long. Time we've talked
about it at. NAUSEUM i think he is someone that
on the, ball great off the, ball probably even better
because he's super long and he's very, smart and he
gets in the passing lanes tons of. Deflections elite help,
defender you, know you can get as granular as you,
want like whether that's stepping in from you, know leaving
a guy in the corner to come in and take a,
charge whether that's doubling at the, nail like whatever you
need to have done on, defense, like he'll just be
great at. It and SO i THINK i leaned on
that versatility and putting him first. TEAM i feel Like
i'm over, justifying BUT.
Speaker 1: I actually wonder if HE i think he definitely would
have finished in the top, three BUT i wonder what
the ground swell would have been for him to win
the award as either take one of them off the
team or just like what if Chet holmgrin and or
Isaa hertensteiner continue to battle all these injuries or.
Speaker 3: Something. YEAH i, mean so he's not going to be
first team like in the real awards, SEASON i don't.
Think and he's a little bit of a victim of
like it's kind of like WHAT i did with The
cavs In ALL. Nba it's like there's too MANY i don't,
know what to. Do just put him on second or
third and we'll call.
Speaker 2: It your first.
Speaker 1: Team consistent in the sense that you've probably chosen five
of the what seven most versatile defenders in the, end
like maybe To Monic, Kamorrow giannanobi would be like, there
but like you've chosen like the five arguably the five
most versatile defenders in the.
Speaker 3: League so, yeah, well and on my second, TEAM i
got at least one more BECAUSE i do Have Timani
kamara there Alongside Rudy gobert is just, like let's not overthink.
This he's still he is another guy that had some
ebbs and flows this, season but has been you, know
had a pretty consistent long stretch of, like, yeah he's
still one of the most impactful. Guys zubats is. THERE
i have Lou. Dort god knows how many thunder would
have been on here if they'd, Qualified BUT i think
he's kind of undeniable as an on ball.
Speaker 1: Guy do you know what kind of stinks about this,
though is that because there were players that weren't, eligible
because we look at the supporting can people have just
decided that Lou dort doesn't matter as. Much like When
i've read and listened to a lot of these all
defense stuff where it's, well he has like this singular.
Focus i'm, like, yeah and it's the toughest. Thing like
there's one or two players that like spend more time
guarding superstars than he. Does and that's just good luck
screening this. Dude and people, like, yeah when he flops
and like he draws these tiki tak offensive, fouls, Good.
Speaker 3: Yeah part of. It that's a, Skill, LIKE i, mean
you may not like, it but he is skilled at that.
Thing and THEN i Had Dyson daniels at the last.
SPOT i gave that some thought just because it's, like you,
know the three steals a game is, nuts and it you,
know almost never, happens hasn't happened for a really long,
time AND i don't want to just overrate the. Disruption
but he is an eye test guy, Too like the,
numbers he's just like causes so many. Problems and then
you watch him chase guys around and you watch him
just tip every ball and it's like he's he's really
messing stuff up for the.
Speaker 1: Offense, yeah HE'S i think a couple of people picked
him to win. IT i just struggled because THE i
don't ascribe a ton of value of The hawk's defense
being better with him off the. Floor BUT i don't
think if you were gonna go that, ROUTE i really
do think that the pick for Defensive player of The
year should Be Aman thompson Or Jalen, williams BECAUSE i
don't think he does as much of like the lower guy,
Stuff and part of that is because he's up top
and He's WHAT i do appreciate about him is that
he is guarding the toughest. Player and, yes He's i've
seen people say that he's not. Gambling he's absolutely getting oh,
yeah but so many of his when you look at
the steels rather than the, deflections like these are a
lot of odd ball, steals so they are. Gambled but
it's while he he's not coming in all the time
as like the second.
Speaker 2: Guy SO i have a ton of appreciation for.
Speaker 1: That AND i think if you, decided, hey we want
him to be our Lou dort and we don't want
him to go after counting, stats that he could fulfill that.
Speaker 2: TOO i JUST i get a little.
Speaker 1: BIT i still value LIKE i, THINK i don't think
he's as versatile as some people have made. HIM i
think there are limitations if he's going up against bigger
players and around the basket more so than some of
the other, guys which suffice it to, SAY i DON'T
i don't have any qualms with who you picked because
we have nine of the same ten, guys AND i
Put Dyson daniels on my first. Team, yeah you're really
talking him down just to PLoP him up there.
Speaker 3: On your first.
Speaker 1: TEAM i Have Evan, Mobley Dyson, daniels Bam am And
thompson And. ZUBATS i don't think we need any other
notes on. These my second team Is Jaron Jackson, junior
the follying coupled WITH i just don't think he's been
as good over this like the last quarter of the.
Year and ALSO i will SAY i saw this, joke
and the one THAT i thought about this wasn't the
JOKE i. Saw this is the time of year we
haven't done. IT i actually THINK i started the podcastating
the exact opposite of.
Speaker 2: It is how everyone doing these.
Speaker 1: Podcasts these these hosts say after watching all these games
and doing all the work and looking at all the
numbers and like really studying, this but.
Speaker 2: It's also the time of. YEAR i thought about it
WHEN i saw.
Speaker 1: THIS i saw someone post like every podcast ever is
these awards are basically based off after The All star.
Break i'm kind of LIKE i fall vic him to that,
too a little bit Like Jared. Jackson hutter is a
good example, here but it is an entire season, thing
so it didn't knock him off all, defense but it
took him off my first. Team he's second team along
With Tamani. Kamara Draymond green made second. Team for Any
warriors fans that are mad at me That grant had
him in the top three of Devinse player the, YEAR
i didn't go beat you mentioned everything with, him but
The wolves are just basically the best defense in the
league with him on the.
Speaker 2: Court, yeah which.
Speaker 3: Tends to happening year after.
Speaker 1: Year, BASICALLY i ended up Lou dort was my first
team last, time AND i think HE i THINK i
might have been overweighting, Though, okay he's on the thunder
AND i felt like someone needed to be, there AND
i really believe that it should.
Speaker 2: Be bam on first.
Speaker 1: Team but he's JUST i think he's, great AND i
think he's almost undervalued in the same way That Klay
thompson was. Undervalued, well he doesn't have the same counting
stats as these other guys on, yeah and it's look
at what he's doing and they.
Speaker 2: Don't, ever they. Don't they, might but they don't need to.
Speaker 1: Help like the stuff that he it's not even covers
up because they're so. Talented but the stuff he allows
everybody else to do that is part of his.
Speaker 2: Lift AND i think it gets overlooked a little.
Speaker 3: Bit, YEAH i think that's.
Speaker 1: Fair biggest snub snubs for. ME i had a Ogn
ANDOBI i gave a lot of consideration. TOO i just
don't think on a possession by a possession basis he's
been as GOOD i thought about j Dub of, Course
Dylan brooks has probably become a little. Underappreciated and somebody
WHO i think had like a really good had he
never like missed that time and was like, This Andrew
nempard were probably.
Speaker 3: We both had him in like the fourth team or
actually third, team like can we get him on? There
and couldn't do. IT i Had Keegan murray he quietly
IS i think he's. RIGHT i ACTUALLY i remember the
number is fifty three percent defensive field goal percentage allowed
inside six, feet which is like that's a great number
for a, center and and THAT'S i think it was
either five or six field goals defended per. Game so
it's like not a small. Number there are a lot
of centers like LIKE i DON'T i can't think of
a name off the, top but like there's plenty of
centers that don't get that much volume in room defense
and are also. Worse so he he you credit him
a lot of time as, like oh my, god remember
that series where he stuck With Steph curry or like
he he's a good, perimeter great perimeter, defender but like
the rim protection is, real and SO i want to
throw him a. Bone jade McDaniels kind of feels lifetime
ACHIEVEMENTY i had og can we? Talk AND i Had.
Speaker 1: BAM j McDaniels like twenty three years, old and you just,
say kind of feels lifetime, Achievementy.
Speaker 3: WELL i mean not lifetime. ACHIE i guess in the
sense of like it's a little a little Like. Bam
it's like we all know he's like really. Great it's
just like THIS i don't, know for some, reason this
isn't the year he's getting acknowledged for. It the did
not qualify list is. Bonkers so, like just to take
five Names, Wemby Alex, Scruso Asar, Thompson Chad, Holmgren Chris,
dunn And Chris done not qualifying is really, stupid and
that's maybe the best argument for changing the.
Speaker 1: RULE i go back and forth on that Because i'm
just sort of, like shouldn't we reward higher minutes guys
for all?
Speaker 3: Defense just don't disqualify. Him let us, decide if you
know WHAT i, Mean, like let us decide if done
playing under twenty minutes this many times or? Whatever what?
That how you how you apples to orange that with
someone that plays a ton, like we can do. It
we'll figure it.
Speaker 1: OUT i think my hottest take BECAUSE i would have
considered might have been. ELIGIBLES i might Prefer Asar thompson on.
Speaker 2: Defense Tom. Thompson that's, well it's fine with.
Speaker 3: Me he's really.
Speaker 2: Great.
Speaker 3: Uh hartenstein was another GUY i think would have gotten
more so every.
Speaker 2: Single player on This uh what's he deserves an honorable mention?
There next?
Speaker 1: UP i believe it's, Yeah i'll take us through. This
one rookie of The YEAR i grappled with this. One
we ended up with the same one. Too Jalen, wells
who's done for the season ins far as The grizzly
season even has any games left and has one more
in the plane with his wrist. Injury Steph castle at
number two just starting. THERE i understand That Steph castle's
offensive role was.
Speaker 2: Harder Jalen wells.
Speaker 1: Has like the fifth highest matchup difficulty on defense in
the league while playing a bunch of minutes for a
team that won almost fifty. Games and this isn't a
huge part of his argument because it happened at the
end of the.
Speaker 2: Year he got.
Speaker 1: INJURED i, Mean grizzers were, basically, well what the fuck
are we supposed to? Do and it's Like Scottie pippen
Or Vince Williams, junior like they all become become so
much more. Important that was the load he was. Carrying
Now steph does a lot more on. Offense castle that,
is is the better. PASSER i think he showed a
lot of signs. There he's a pretty good finisher so.
FAR i can't get past the efficiency's from the, perimeter
and you could talk about self created shot, making the shot.
Quality Jalen wells a shot quality this, year so expected
effective field goal percentage on the shots he took was
actually lower than What Steph castle's. Was so in a
lot of that, Look steph gets to the rim more
LIKE i get. It BUT i tried to look at
this as IF i was picking WHO i think is
going to be the better. PRO i believe It's Steph,
castle But i'm also trying to look at like this
is rookie of the, year not rookie of the, draft,
right so it's a different, Right and SO i am
higher On steph Than wells long.
Speaker 2: TIME i just think he's more.
Speaker 1: Dynamic BUT i do come back to the fact that
if you are this inefficient for this long to where
you're you, know damaging your team's, offense and, like, yeah
you're put into this high volume role by necessity at
points for, SURE i just couldn't get. There that all that,
SAID i do reward the. VOLUME i do reward just
the breadth of his skill. Set you'll see it when
we talk about the all rookie, teams WHERE i THINK
i might, well we actually we both have he who
will be named, soon where a lot of other people did.
Not SO i really do appreciate the. DIFFICULTY i don't
Think Galon wells had it easy In memphis at any
point defensively this. Year and look at some of the
Players i've. Il this is WHAT i can't wrap my head.
Around some of the justifications against him THAT I i
THINK i mostly listened to these was well, like he
just doesn't hold up against like The Luca, Dantes Lebron
james too. Well, okay all, right, sure, okay the fact
that he has to guard them at. All if we're
going to Reward steph with the difficulty on offense of, that,
like he has an outsized role when it comes to
his body archetype on the defensive. End you know, what
for most of the, year he.
Speaker 2: Did it really.
Speaker 1: Well AND i DID i Had steph initially on this final,
RUN i think maybe for the first time ever Because
Jaleen wells like didn't shoot the ball too well to
close the. Year, yeah BUT i just it's a full season,
award AND i think that he was the more valuable,
rookie certainly to the better team for the entire.
Speaker 2: Season, YEAH i agree with all.
Speaker 3: THAT i just like they're JUST i don't know if
you know, This, dan this is a down year for.
Rookies not a lot of people love this.
Speaker 1: Class CAN I, Actually i'll say this question be, frohm
we get to all rookies BECAUSE i haven't a question
about this class for.
Speaker 3: You so, Yeah wells just is kind of a one
of one in terms of played a starting role all
season and was a helpful two way player for a
very good. Team like that's you, know that's that's kind
of the. Case LIKE i guess if that's not what
you Think rookie of The year, is then, fine then
it's Probably castle or you could you could go anywhere
on the. Board, Really SO i had Reesa, cha, third
you Had cling and THIRD i have no issue Like,
KLINGON i think pretty clearly. Demonstrated LIKE i think we've
we started talking about like does he have a superpower
you know and evaluating players and, like, yeah he's the
offensive rebounding the room protection he's. Not he's got plenty
of flaws like most very very big big men. Do
but like he made a massive impact and like the
things you want him to. IMPACT i went With. Resache
he just kind of slowly it like met expectations of, like,
yeah he's gonna be a helpful catch and shoot guy
that can move off the, ball Like cutswell is in
the right, place and then like nudged it up a
little bit by like becoming, very very efficient as a
three point shooter over the last couple of months of the.
Year SO i wanted to reward. THAT i STILL i
don't know what to think of his. CEILING i still
think the safe bet is that it's, like you, know good,
starter which is What wells was this, year just to
drive that point. Home so, yeah we could. Have we
could have gone through probably ten guys FOR i think
third third.
Speaker 1: Place, yeah with and it came down To clinging or
reesa che OR i Think edie with. Me what ended
up being a big differentiator Is clinging like was playing
and this was not all, year but like he was
playing a lot of higher leverage minutes for a team
that was really involved in the play in WHICH i
viewed the LIKE i know was doing that for The.
Speaker 2: Hawks but he doesn't have necessarily a.
Speaker 1: Superpower and like the room projection Of clinging being this
defensive base For, portland there's not being said though if
you look and, said we Like edie's more offensively dynamic
or someone Was resche because clean can't catch your, pass
can't finish around the.
Speaker 2: BASKET i totally get.
Speaker 1: It it's like you, said they're ten names you probably
could have slotted into. Here speaking of ten, names we
get to my all rookie. Teams my first team Is,
Well's Steph, Castle Donovan, CLINGON i Had Resis shame And
edie Round.
Speaker 2: UP i don't know if there's any notes. THERE i am.
CURIOUS i don't know What recis.
Speaker 1: Says shielding is either my second Team eves Mec Kyle,
philipowski Khalil, Ware Madis, Buzzellis Alex. SAR i Think Eves
meci's case is probably the strongest of anyone on this
because he's been doing it all, year AND i think
where he really, improved even if he wanted him to
do some of the traditional big man stuff. Better we'll
see whether this matters, anymore but like he really learned
how to play in less than ideal, spacing and also
Alongside Zion, williamson it's like, that you, know to do
that kind of midstream when he was where he kind
of broke out While zion was injured. BIG i think
you could make the case that. In David locke of
The Locked on podcast network already has That Kyle philipowski
is the best offensive rookie of the. Year just the,
passing the touch from the, outside the movement he can
bring the ball up the.
Speaker 2: FLOOR i think he's been.
Speaker 1: Great the only other rookie to match his effective field
goal percentage while taking as many threes Is Chet. Holmgren
so that's Big matus bruzellis better shooter THAN i, expected
slightly better passer at least when you're kind of looking
at the real THAN i, expected and then way better
just like defensively he can do some big man stuff
even though like he more so profiles as a wing.
Sar this is the name That i've seen a lot
of people leave. Off that's sort of The castle case to,
me WHERE i just find value in the. Volume is
he just he played a? Ton he wasn't in the best.
Setting there is no a plus playmaker at any point
this year on The Washington, wizards and so, like even
when he's being set, up is he gonna be in
these ideal?
Speaker 2: Situations?
Speaker 1: Now he was like they were kind of forcing, him
AND i think that makes, sense is, like, no you're
not gonna they let him. Explore but as an, Example
Zach edie had more made unassisted two point field goals
Than Alex aar this, year which is just kind of
weird when you look at their situations to think. About,
also here is the stuff that stood. Out he went
through stretches where he's shot really well from three this.
Year we me and you have talked about the defensive.
PLAYMAKING i think is he gets stronger and even smarter
that he's gonning to be a pretty viable defensive. ANCHOR
i think the passing is the thing THAT i just
didn't understand about, him like the ability to bring the
ball up the, floor seeing things from a, standstill even
some live dribble. Stuff and so, grant here's every rookie
to have one hundred plus, blocks assists and made threes
in a. Season Chet, Holgren Victor wimanyama And alex are
to an extent not nearly as. Efficient BUT i remain
and this is the Question i'll get as you go
through your all rookie. Teams i'll let you ask me
any questions about. Mine first is Just i'm kind of
wondering if you're redrafting a twenty twenty four class with
the goal of not taking the best player from this,
season but who your highest on long. TERM i wanted to,
know like who you would take number one.
Speaker 3: Overall just thinking about what's like highest ceiling basically.
Speaker 1: OBVIOUSLY i think this year in FILVE i mean if
you want to Say Red, shepherd BECAUSE i might still
if it was, ME i might still Take Reed.
Speaker 2: SHEPHARD i certainly won't Take Cody. Williams i'll tell you that.
Speaker 1: Much but like base of, course off what you've seen this,
year has it changed your like would you just Take resache?
Speaker 2: Again is It? Sar is It?
Speaker 3: CASTLE i THINK i think it's Just, Castle and that's
pricing in that the floor is really low because he
was a deeply damaging player this year because of the
inefficient scoring and the ways that you can guard him
with guys that like you just don't have to worry
about him as a as an off ball. PLAYER i
just Think castle has like all the other ingredients you'd
want in like a star guard slash. Wing so but
then to your, Point sar would rank pretty high on
that list, too even with because it's making me feel
guilty for, like BECAUSE I i think he is kind
of the big guy version Of castle because the the
two point finishing is just like historically. Terrible BUT I
i just excuse the inefficiency For castle AND i didn't For,
Sar SO i FEEL i feel Like sar might still
be the correct number two. Pick you, KNOW i wouldn't
be like shocked by.
Speaker 1: THAT i think there's a version where if neither of
those players hits their anything close to their best case,
outcomes Then sar is just the better player to.
Speaker 2: Have he feels maybe scale two different roles. BETTER i
mentioned Khlil ware and this is What i'll throw it to.
You i'm not gonna.
Speaker 1: LIE i was kind of bullied into this without anyone
bullying me into.
Speaker 2: It everyone else has. HIM i watch. HIM i don't see.
Speaker 1: IT i probably would prefer to put Bub, carrington BUT
i do look at the two point finishing being a lob,
threat just the idea of the shooting touch even though
the percentages don't. Align SO i get, it BUT i
don't see. IT i put him on second team, anyway
And i'll as we did.
Speaker 3: That, yeah SO i had him as a second team
or so my first. Team uh Wells, castle reesa CHE
i did Have. Edie it was tough between him And.
Clinging you kind of you, know illustrated some of the.
DIFFERENCES i feel Like edie is just more Mobile edie
DOES i think project as someone who might have more offensive,
value and that's accounting for cling and just being such
a load on the offensive. Boards Like edie's actually phenomen
like that's a borderline superpower for him. TOO i just
Threw jared mccainnon on, There, dan because, uh this rookie
class was not great and he was clearly the best
one in it until he got. Hurt and that's, enough
if not enough most. Years but if you're not gonna
put the games played limit on me for this, category
Then i'm just gonna pick the guy that was running
away With rookie of The year before got.
Speaker 1: Hurt by the, way there's no when it comes to
six man All rookie And rookie of The year as
you are not beholden to the game's minimum FOR i
don't necessarily under stand.
Speaker 3: It, Weird, yeah it's. Weird Uh so my second TEAM
i Had, CLINGING i Had, BIZELLS i had where AND
i acknowledge all the things you mentioned about where it's
a tools play it's like he's that, big he's that.
Athletic maybe he can shoot. It, defensively he's got miles
to go in terms of like diagnosing what is happening
and where to be and when to be, there that
kind of. Stuff but he's a rookie and playing defense
as a rookie is. Hard mesi's, THERE i threw my,
Guy quinton Post on. There my, GOD i think he's
he's he's everybody's.
Speaker 1: Guy doesn't he kind of look Like Donovan clinging try
to be incognito at like.
Speaker 3: It's like a is that beard glued on in the?
Picture AS i was just, saying, man If Donovan kling
could shoot Like Quinton, posts he would have been a
number one. Pick i'll tell you. That UH A post
does have a. Superpower he is one of the best
shooters in THE nba at any position. Period now he's
not coming off the, dribble but as a ketch and shoot,
guy he's just a legit forty percent plus Shoot AND
i think that's a real. Thing. Uh AND i think
that does really. MATTER i think in a normal, year
you'd be like. Cool so he's Like Mike muscala or you,
know LIKE i. Don't it's not that interesting to.
Speaker 1: ME i think he's got a gonna trade the next
of Eas you're gonna trade zobots for.
Speaker 3: Him that's so funny THAT i CAN'T i still can't
think of zubots without thinking Of Mike, Muscala like it's
just that's for ever gonna.
Speaker 1: Be it's like The nuggets kind of never giving a
real chance To Isaia hartnerstide Or jay Huff, well.
Speaker 3: Do you also think About Donovan mitchell when you bring
up The? Nuggets because that Was mitchell For Trey, lyles
remember that On draft?
Speaker 1: Night like what in that alternate really like what happens
with Like Jamal murray and, LIKE i don't, know that's
another fun.
Speaker 2: One, YEAH i don't.
Speaker 3: Know i'd like to find out, Personally, uh it would
have been more helpful Than Trey. LYLES i, think just
just to put a just a little a Little homer
button on, post there's a little tiny bit of, like
oh he kind of like sees passing angles just like
once in a, while and, like oh he knows where guys,
are which is like that might not seem like a big,
deal but for a, rookie big, guy that's basically a.
SPECIALIST i think there's a tiny bit more that like
in terms of just like feel and and like, DEFENSIVELY
i don't know what the ceiling is just because he's
not strong enough and it's just hard for him to
like hold up. Underneath but there's more than Just, oh
he's gonna come in and play twelve minutes and maybe
hit four threes and maybe, not and that's his.
Speaker 1: Contribution you will be vindicated if he is able to
stay on the floor at any point against The. Rockets
BUT i will SAY i DON'T i don't think he's good,
defensively but he's been better as like the vertical rim
protector who you can't have him like shimmying around and make.
It but his rim production numbers also aren't. TERRIBLE i
expected him to be Like towns level with that, stuff
and The warriors have streamwlined what he, does of, Course
but SO i, mean if you can stay on the
floor for ANY i don't care how, bad and, like
if you're able to stay on the floor your team
feels that they need to play you as a rookie
in the playing game or the playoff, series you're you're vindicated.
Speaker 3: There this is the most grizzy old coach ass THING
i may have ever. Said but, LIKE i don't think
he's just seven feet tall and can. SHOOT i think
HE'S i think there's a basketball player in. THERE i
think like the way he executes dribble handoffs is, like,
hmm there's kind of that looks.
Speaker 1: Natural this is all to, say can we get rid
of second Team All rookie and get either a fourth
Team ALL nba or third Team All, YEAH i don't need.
Speaker 3: Sex look what we're talking about right.
Speaker 1: Now next up this is can you take us through
our most improved?
Speaker 2: Player since it's the.
Speaker 3: Game so we both Got mobile number, one we both
Got caid number, two AND i think we arrived there
similarly by valuing like high level improvements that are consequential
and like pretty you, Know caide's. Harder mobile's, like, well
he've shot threes more and, better and he learned how
to drive really hard and he couldn't do that. Before
like that's, okay and he's great and he's An ALL nba.
Speaker 2: Player he was good enough.
Speaker 1: To where The cavs had to find a way to
take away usage From Darius garland And Donovan.
Speaker 3: Mitchell that, Yeah SO i, MEAN i don't know What
i'll to. Say cunningham just made the leap to like
he was not An All star and then he, was
in one fell, swoop An All, star An ALL nba.
Speaker 2: Player CAN i interject there for a, second BECAUSE i.
Speaker 1: Do it fits the consequence where it's like this guy
went from even call him An All star beforehand to
LIKE i considered him he was one of the guys
THAT i circled for fifth spot on MY mvp. Ballot
that being, SAID i think.
Speaker 2: People were too low On cunningham to begin with.
Speaker 1: That his performance this season has almost become, outsized not
relative to its, impact but to how good he already,
Was like the, defense the, rebounding even like kind of
the the nose for getting the team out in. TRANSITION
i get it all like when you're kind of digging
into the stuff THAT i wanted him to improve upon the,
most like he's incrementally better at that rather than, oh
like he just made this Like larry market inside, jump
even A mobley size jump in those.
Speaker 3: Areas, YEAH i think for him, TOO i think you're,
right and credit to you for being like a little
bit of an early cade adopter or like you were
a little you were higher on. HIM i think that
consensus and that turned out to be. Right but, like
did you see the post up stat for? HIM i
think it Was Fred katz at some point this year
for the Athletic he's just like he's not necessarily scoring
that much in post, ups but when he posts, up
like the points per play is just higher than, like you,
Know jokic or anybody But jokic or. Whatever so that's
a huge point of. Growth and, DEFENSIVELY i don't think
it's like it's you, know out of bounds to say
like he's a huge factor In detroit being a good.
Defense it's not Just Asar. Thompson it's not just Like
beef Stew it's not He, like he really is a
huge reason why The pistons are good, Defensively and, LIKE
i DON'T i don't think last year you would have been, like,
Well kate Is kid's the only reason they're like getting,
By like that's not.
Speaker 1: It, NO i mean just the level of the only
THING i would edit that the like the it's not
that he's good defensively and they're insulating. Him it's he's
good defensively and sometimes he's not good but when you
look at who he has to guard a lot of the,
time like they're not hiding, Him SO i think that's important.
Speaker 3: Too So i've Got Dyson. DANIELS i don't love that.
PICK i Just i'll just like he became we knew
he was a good or like an interesting defender that
was very limited, offensively he became a great defender that
there are some uses now, offensively like the floater. Stuff
he still doesn't really get guarded, offensively but like he's
SOMEONE i think now that look he. Was he wasn't
a throw, in but it was like nobody at the
time other than like total, diehards were, LIKE i don't,
KNOW i kind of like what the hawkscott and The murray,
deal whatever you thought About. Murray he's just become a
great defender that has value on, offense and he was
like interesting and didn't have offensive value. Before so it's
kind of a little bit of a two way.
Speaker 1: Improvement, yeah and, look this is WHAT i struggle, with
BUT i think like for most improved for, me you
mentioned it being, consequential And i'm ALWAYS i used to
feel bad ABOUT i wouldn't pick a second year player
AND i don't Have Christian brown on here Because i'm
reticent to even pick a third year player at this
point BECAUSE i do think they're supposed to, improve AND
i think people have kind of overblown this award has
just become the guy who signed a max contract getting.
Better go look through who, won and the instances of
that are just not Like tyre's.
Speaker 2: Maxie when he won, it.
Speaker 1: He was not my, pick to be, Clear like he
wasn't even on HIS mac contract yet he didn't sign the.
Extension So i'm trying to look at it as just
like these mid career, leaps or even if you're going From,
Okay i'm in my fourth year AND i went from
Fringe All star TO mvp, candidate those are going to
be more meaningful to me then if you The dyce
And daniel, stuff the Tie i've seen everyone, say, man
if Ty jerome and, qualified he would have won. It
my whole thing IS i think it'd be cool to
Have who's the Most Surprising player award BECAUSE i Think
Dyson daniels might. Fit i'm not when you're at number,
no one remembers who finishes second.
Speaker 3: Right AND i already SAID i don't feel good about,
it RIGHT i like your pick better than. Mine for number,
THREE i went With.
Speaker 1: Zoobots we got into a lot of the defensive stuff,
already but he just leveled up in every. Area, like,
no he's not chucking, threes but like when you're looking
at him being able to score in the, post the
stuff he, does is it a hook, shot is it
a flip? SHOT i have no idea the screen setting
being able to just even run the. Floor he's had
a shoulder some more self created, load like not a,
ton but just like having that volume go, up and
his numbers are like for you, KNOW i mean counting stats,
people but his career high before this season was averaging
like eleven point six points per. Game at eleven point,
seven he jumped to sixteen point. Eight this is someone
remember people, wondered, hey is he ever gonna be able
to be effective if they did play him more than
twenty five twenty seven minutes a. Game uh, yeah because
he's he played almost thirty three per game this year
for one of the best defenses in the.
Speaker 3: League and like he never missed games. Either THAT'S i,
mean that's the.
Speaker 2: Thing eighty games played into That like that's an.
Speaker 1: Aberration SO i think you could go a number of
different areas here for number, three AND i don't like
you could go a number of different.
Speaker 2: Areas who do you think is gonna win?
Speaker 3: It? Uh I'M i don't know what The actually this
is a great question BECAUSE i don't know what the
betting odds. ARE i Think cad will probably win, it don't.
YOU i THINK i think it's gonna Be cad Or
dyson is gonna be the. Winner, YEAH i need to
say all those people are wrong because they didn't agree
with us some other you want to throw out like
a handful of, names because there's so LIKE i THINK
i agree with you on like the Tie jerome of it,
All like if you're talking about, BIGGEST i don't know most,
surprising or like like most, growth which is seems the
same as most. Improved but like if you take out
the like level like for THE a TO, b like
did you go from good to great or? Whatever Like
jerome went from like he maybe doesn't have a career
to he's playing.
Speaker 2: How much The cavs can't afford to keep him this.
Speaker 3: Summer, Yeah, so like there's different levels to, it and
you can throw a million guys in, there Like brown
And pritchard and who else DO i Have?
Speaker 1: PRITCHARD i had fourth AND i almost put him. THIRD
i just, struggled and it was the same thing when
we're gonna get into six men of the. Year it's
how consequential is it when he's not someone who is
likely to close.
Speaker 2: Games that's more of A celtics, thing but a perfect.
Speaker 1: Example he's on his second contract and it's just as
an offensive rebounder is like everyone talks about the, shooting
like the, finishing the.
Speaker 2: Passing he he.
Speaker 1: Probably would have been like if there was a Most
Surprising player, AWARD i guess Tied jerome would have wanted
or dice and deb but like he's in he kind
of he could have won either version of this.
Speaker 2: AWARD i think like he's been that.
Speaker 3: Good, Yeah Danny Avdia tyler Hero, LIKE i, mean THE
obda thing is like beware of The portland the late
Season portland player. Surge BUT i think and ALSO i
think he was pretty high and most improved last, Year
so that's always a weird thing when guys like back
to back, it, uh BUT i Think obdia is. Whatever
we can have A Danny avda podcast at some point he's.
Speaker 1: Great my actual two picks for this did not. QUALIFY
i Think Norman powell Or Trey murphy deserved, it And
Trey murphy just he needed to play in every game
to qualify at one point basically. So but The Norm
powell one was tough BECAUSE i think he's he's done
a great deal to improve Six man of The. Year
so we have the same three, candidates just in a different.
Speaker 2: ORDER i Have.
Speaker 1: Malik beasley number, One DeAndre hunter number, Two Peyton pritchard number.
Three you Have pritchard, One beasley, Two DeAndre hunter. THREE
i JUST i Think Malik beasley's Been this is not
the thing people point, to but he's been better defensively
the past two years than he's ever really been credit.
Speaker 2: For but the three point, shooting.
Speaker 1: The, spacing some of the shots he could take off the,
dribble he really opens Up detroit's. Flour so he kind
of felt like the guy who IT'S i like to be, like,
Well i'm not just the conventional Sixth man of The
year candidate, guy but he's, that and then he's also
a little bit.
Speaker 2: More so that's why he got it for.
Speaker 3: Me, YEAH i Went pritchard, one although you're making a
great case that like one between the like doesn't close
and between and, alongside Like beasley really does do things
that unlock offensive options for The pistons that just don't
exist if he's not in the, game Whereas pritchard is, like,
YEAH i mean he's he just comes in and smokes,
backups but like he really smokes the backups like. That
he's so. Good he's another guy, who LIKE i don't
THINK i can't knock him for not closing for The, Celtics, like,
yeah because he closes FOR i don't know how many other,
teams but it's a.
Speaker 2: Lot.
Speaker 3: So and then we both Had. HUNTER i think the
most impressive thing For hunter is that he did it
basically for two different, teams and the second one was
really really, good and that mattered. MORE i think had
tol him down. Offensively, yeah, no HE i THINK i
think you. Could we could quibble over the, order but to,
me this is this should be the top. Three LIKE
I i, mean we'll talk about some other. Names you
have more THAN i, do but but this feels.
Speaker 1: Right, YEAH i think, look we could go Towards, Nick Alexander,
Walker Scottie Pippen junior Kars lavert for much of the,
Season Ty. Jerome since there's not a minutes cap. Here
sante Al dama been really good this. Year also Nas,
reed who did he win it last? YEAR i think
we both had him number, one the winner of? It,
yeah so, ye he could have. Repeated BUT i do
think these are the. Three is there who would be
the fourth most compelling candidate for?
Speaker 3: YOU i THINK i Had pippen in the top three
at points this. YEAR i think he really is a
starter that like is just he plays Behind John rain
he starts now That Jalen wells is, HURT i, LIKE
i like him the best. There although if this is
another one where it's, like are we overthinking it by
not just, saying Nas, REED i think we're overthinking everything
safe to say that's the whole point of.
Speaker 2: This can you take us through coach of the? Year?
Speaker 3: Sure uh, so let's see we both Have Kenny atkinson at.
One it's the, case is what it? Like he just
shows up and the team's got the best offense in
the league and the talent is mostly the. Same that
does overlook the fact That Darius garland was healthy AND
mobilei got, better BUT i don't, KNOW i feel like
it's hard to argue against him just because of the
level The cavs got. To and it's just, again it's the,
good it's the very good to great, leap which is
like we always just reward that a little bit. More
you've got Bigger staff, Two i've Got Mark. Dagnault to
Bicker staff's case is like his team tripled its win.
Total do we need to discuss anything?
Speaker 1: Else, well they've actually been like the offensive, stuff because
they're still if he. THERE i, mean they've been one
of the best teams after. Timeouts but do you look
at this the personnel on that team and, say, oh,
yeah they definitely were gonna be a top ten defense
or even had a chance of.
Speaker 3: Being oh, god, no, no no, chance like just, No
like how many OF. Sr thompson's did they? Clone would
be my would be my question with a.
Speaker 2: QUESTION i also thought he.
Speaker 1: Did AND i Think Holland Ron holland the seconded up
playing all eighty two, games, right like the fact that
he was still able the pistons were good and he
was still able to sprinkle in like real developmental reps
or something like. THAT i just thought he did a
really good job this, year, ye well and during got
Better Jalen jalen during got, Better.
Speaker 3: But like at, best he's like he's a complicated defensive.
Speaker 2: Figure i'm already calling. IT i Think i'm gonna hate
the extension that he winds up.
Speaker 3: Siding put a pin in that. One Uh SO i
went With Dagnall like it's a little bit of like
we always just decide we can't discuss the guy that
already won. It Uh, SO i think that's kind of.
Silly but like the injuries to start the year required
some pretty real ingenuity and the just the defensive level he's,
got like the personnel is, Awesome like there's no denying
that he's been dealta he got dealt the, nuts like
his hand is, great but like the defensive buy, in
the defensive. Intensity, OFFENSIVELY i don't, know you can poke
poke holes in the, like, well what about When shay
is not on the, Floor, LIKE i don't, know they're
doing the best they can with with.
Speaker 1: When it's two of their three other best offense Like
ja dubb isak pretty, good they have the equivalent of
like a top two offense.
Speaker 3: Then, Right so that's JUST i think he needs to be.
There we both had tyleru, third which was NOT i
don't think we had him top three at any point
earlier in the, year and it just became undeniable because
The clippers are top ten and offensive defense after the,
break and, like he's just a great.
Speaker 1: Coach you figure out a way to Make Ben simmons
as basically your big work in minutes With Derek jones,
junior you might as, well maybe he should Win coach
of the.
Speaker 3: Year well and navigate the early season Without kawhi. Coach
whatever the hell has happened To zubots out Of zubats Like.
Powell powell's suddenly like has the craziest late career leap
we've ever. Seen harden is you get through a year Without, harden,
LIKE i don't know what they, can't you, know credit
him for, durability but, like didn't hear a peep of
like dissatisfaction or, alwa he's not in, Shape Like harden
just had a, good good year and and that offense
did not have any business being as good as it,
was AND i don't think the defense did, Either so,
well maybe maybe the defense, did but, well.
Speaker 1: You know what the Key i've heard sources have told
me the key To James harden's durability and performance this.
Season inside The Inwit, dome they actually have a champagne,
room so he.
Speaker 2: Doesn't even need to.
Speaker 1: Leave is he could show, up get in the champagne,
room get his training in and everything same. Location, smart very,
good very, good everyone's favorite. Award actually think this is
the one people care about the least executive of the.
Speaker 3: YEAR i beg the.
Speaker 1: Difference, LOOK i understand people are gonna Pick Rob, polinka
who Got.
Speaker 2: LUKADANCIC i just don't know how to. Weigh, okay you Got.
Speaker 1: Lukadancic but the best thing you did in that trade
was keep it a. SECRET i guess because you make
that trade eleven times out of.
Speaker 2: Ten now you.
Speaker 1: Could point too he didn't negotiate because they didn't give
up all their first round. PICKS i also think The
lakers nailed some other, moves THE Jj reddick higher for,
one and then The.
Speaker 2: Dorrian Phinney smith.
Speaker 1: Addition but that's the player who saved their, Season Like
luca comes, in raises your playoff. Ceiling they traded For
Dorian Finney smith and like the load that he's had
to carry defensively and he just bombing threes for, Them
SO i have him, Second BUT i Have Sam. PRESTY
i just you look at the smaller, stuff The Aaron
wiggins And Isaiah joe. Contracts you Turned Josh giddy winds
up having a pretty good season for The bulls Into
Alex carus was not playing a ton for, you but just, like,
oh just another all defense type player under our tool.
Belt here Getting Isaiah hartenstein in the first, place and
we kind of we did forget WHERE i forgot it
when we were regrading the last trade, deadline The Gordon
hayward trade didn't work, out but you weren't just making
that trade For Gordon. Hayward you made it so that
you could clear space that allows you to then go
Sign Isaiah, hartenstein who proves even more critical because of
the time that Chet holmgrin. MISSED i know some of it,
overlapped but so just a plus across the board for.
Him THEN i Have trajan langdon to where like The
pistons moves, WERE i guess his biggest move would be
drafting like that in front, office Drafting Ron hollid and
it probably wasn't their, best but like Getting Malik, beasley
changing the, culture HIRING.
Speaker 2: Jb bickers.
Speaker 1: Staff, YEAH i think preserving using your cap space to
Get Dennis shrewder to where you've helped the non k
minutes and also found a way to Give caid some
in game. Breaks there just a lot of good stuff
from The. Pistons, yeah your top three or WHO.
Speaker 3: I Have Sam presty one for all the reasons he.
Said Aj mitchell. WAS i, mean he got, hurt so
everybody's forgotten about, him but he was looking he was
gonna make an all rookie, team just like where do
you were drafting guys out OF Uc Santa. BARBARA i
think that's where it came.
Speaker 1: From BUT i got killed for this WHEN i did
a twenty twenty four. REDRAFT i don't know if it's
still this because he just hasn't played so. MUCH i
would TAKE Aj mitchell the lottery right, now not Even.
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah what he did to start when he was
healthy is. WELL i, mean, again this class is what it.
Is but, YEAH i Have mike Dne. Leavy. SECOND i
think the moves that he made in the offseason looked really.
Good remember remember what feels like a thousand years ago
when we're like this team has fourteen fourteen. Deep they're
winning with, Defense Buddy healed shooting the shit out of,
It Kylie anderson Works Dan Anthony mail in perfect pick
and then that kind of falls, apart and then he
goes and makes The Jimmy butler, trade which, LIKE i
don't care what you we can never forget like how
scary that was and how how like really and then
we're going to extend it and then Like butler turns
the team into a different, Team like it's just there's
a before and there's an, after and it was a
bold trade and it was and didn't Give jonathan coming
to the, extension that's looking smarter every day as he's
out of.
Speaker 2: The rotation now at the peak of his. Value could
have traded.
Speaker 3: Him that's true. Too it really does come down TO
i think he had kind of Two he built two,
teams and when the first one didn't, work he like
that construction project did not cost the team assets that
would have you know that it had the assets still
because of the first team he built to turn it
into the second, team and the second team is, Good
so credit him. There polinka's, THIRD i, MEAN i don't
know what. Else it's like he made the. Trade he
made the trade that that was the defining point of
the year in the, league and whether it fell into
his lap or, not it did like he just he made.
It so, uh that's he's got to be. HERE i
guess a couple of just you, know all jokes, aside
like Dal connect was a pretty good pick where he got.
Him if we're just gonna you, know be be fair about,
it he's.
Speaker 2: Been getting way too much love in all rookie. Discussions i'm, sorry,
no but like what was he?
Speaker 3: SEVENTEENTH i think that's that's value, there and like he
did really help early in the year when he was.
Speaker 2: Hot he almost he almost got The Mark.
Speaker 3: WILLIAMS i was gonna, say, though like if we if
we're gonna evaluate on the basis of like trades you
tried to make and then. Didn't The Mark williams TRADE
i think would have, been, look they need a big,
guy but the cost was like what like there's you
can't be given up to first or. Whatever it wasn't
connected For Mark, Williams so he probably wouldn't have been
top three if the league had not stepped in or
whoever whoever failed the physical then.
Speaker 1: How do you reconcile that With dunleavy trying to trade
For Paul george over the, season.
Speaker 3: That that was the right non. Move? YEAH i. Can't.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Also step signed extension this summer.
Speaker 3: Too, Right, well, okay, like, yeah, sure do you really think.
Speaker 1: He would have done that If Mike dunleavy wasn't, There
that's All i'm. Saying so the award that we don't
do until the end of the, season but apparently we
might need to change that next year because people kept
being mad that we left it out at our quarter check.
Speaker 2: Ins Futch player of The? Year uh our? Ballots would
you like to take us through?
Speaker 3: Them?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: SURE i will just preface this by, saying this is
the AWARD i care the least. About it's, dumb but
let's do. It so we both Had Jalen brunson, first
we both Had jokic. SECOND i want to SAY i
Had brunson first because he had the most clutch points
AND i think free throws with a positive clutch. Differential
i've really crunched the numbers on this. ONE i was just, like, okay,
cool he's and Then jokic just all the numbers are
still great and he is just undeniably the best like
late game offensive performer orchestrator or whatever that there. IS
i Had Darius garland, THIRD i believe IF i remember
correctly this, AGAIN i made these picks like a week.
Ago he just has the highest clutch differential there is
and he's been super efficient among. Guys it's kind of
the biggest combo. There brunson's got the volume, Stuff garland
has the efficiency stuff and the better team, differential and
then you Have. Steph I'M i guess. What i'm not
going to argue that you Have steph up for an.
Speaker 2: Award steph like thirty eight usage on sixty true.
Speaker 1: Shooting JUST i THINK i saw some people Pickture young
because of volume.
Speaker 2: Stuff the efficiency just wasn't.
Speaker 1: There And GARLAND i looked at because he was so,
efficient like When Donovan mitchell was clearly their primary.
Speaker 3: Option was tough for.
Speaker 1: Me brunts in The brunton case is just like you
have like a forty three usage rate while being a,
fit and it makes you think The knicks are headed for,
disaster aren't.
Speaker 2: They they traded all these.
Speaker 1: Picks you always think that they remade their roster and
gave up all these estas just so.
Speaker 2: Gealing they could be just the, Right, like, jeez.
Speaker 3: You shouldn't have to do this is what you're, saying
Hunch player of The, Year John.
Speaker 1: BRUTS i Think jokic we? Do we did we Picked
steph last? Year or was It jokic that we?
Speaker 2: Picked? Well demartarrow is in probably factor in.
Speaker 1: There there Was jokic has been like ever since the
award cropped. UP i think he's always finished in the top.
Speaker 3: Three for, me do you think this award will be
around in ten? Years will it?
Speaker 2: Exist honestly based off our comments?
Speaker 3: Section, yes why do people care about?
Speaker 1: THIS i, mean in theory it's, fun but it's like
it you're, saying what can we.
Speaker 3: Make up an award for the player who's the best
between minute twelve and minute eight of the second? Quarter
can we just like is that cool? Too what about
the end of the first? Half that's pretty? Valuable can
we can we make one of those?
Speaker 2: Up here's the? Thing do you need to? Like what
are the? Requires mister clutch player of The? Year can
we have Picked Ti? JEROME i feel like.
Speaker 3: We should have had an honorable mention for every award
For Ti. Jerome he probably would have ranked high in clutch,
play although how much clutch time did he? Get that's
that's the THING i.
Speaker 2: DIDN'T i. DIDN'T i honestly don't.
Speaker 1: REMEMBER i don't, apologize but, LOOK i Think brunton's gonna win,
it right because some of our picks have diverged FROM
i think.
Speaker 2: Consensus this one feels fatal.
Speaker 3: Complete, YEAH i mean, SURE i won't.
Speaker 1: Care are you ready to get into the made up
awards from our listeners that they want to talk? About all,
right so we kick things off with best finisher under six.'
five so my valid is our bouts basically, the same
just the way that this is gonna. Shake out it's
Called The Kyrie, irving Award And kyrie irving's gonna win
it for me because he's. Still There, JOHN moran i
think you would want the efficiency to be better, from
him but the degree of difficulty on the things that
he tries is.
Speaker 2: Just Forever.
Speaker 1: Peyton pritchard i've seen people Call Him. Caucasian kyrie there's
he's he's got something.
Speaker 2: Daring due to.
Speaker 1: His handles he's shooting seventy five percent at the rim
and there are some tricky. Finishes THERE but i think
he probably Benefits from. Boston spacing the.
Speaker 2: Other candidate we have here is how do you Feel About.
Speaker 3: Tyrese maxi he's definitely the fastest finisher under six, Y
five like he just get.
Speaker 2: His pack the fastest finisher on the court or.
Speaker 3: Going on he gets to the. Room quick it's like
The the Moran and kyrie are like in a. SEPARATE
class i think and AND, and Maxi like Maxi's not
maxie doesn't have the crazy like, wrong footed like spinning
it counterclockwise while you, turning clockwise like just the not
the the up and under morent Hat on gobert the,
Other day like he's not that kind, of finisher but
he deserves to be in THE conversation. I would i would, ask,
Though too pritchard is like a, low key like a
really mean post. Up player does that count because he
is at the rim when he's just bullying people that
are bigger.
Speaker 1: Than him it depends on if you want the best
finisher to be like have these circus wire acts and
you're probably not gonna. Pick him but if you appreciate
just efficiency and like degrees, OF difficulty i think he
would at least belong in.
Speaker 3: The, discussion, sure yeah. That's fair you don't you don't
like the guy that just like bumps someone out of
the way and drop steps and banks it in like
he's playing in nineteen.
Speaker 1: Fifty five by, the way if we did one for like,
the floater just are We Is steph curry the best
like floater shooter of? All time like in terms, of
efficiency there's, probably better but he just like sometimes the
angles and the arcs that. He GETS and i also
feel like he could be the best finisher at the
rim under six y five if he just wanted.
Speaker 3: To, be well this is getting back into how we
always used, to joke like this guy's the best at
this range in the league Other. Than steph it's just
like whatever kind of weird range or weird type of
shot you want to, Make, up like, He's great he's good.
At it our next category is. The error so these
next two you're gonna need to explain to the kids.
Speaker 2: At.
Speaker 3: Home, Grant yeah So The Aaron wiggins award is basically,
the like well you can stop me or or, correct
me doesn't start or finish or play huge minutes for his.
OWN team i think we said there was a in the.
Proposed award there was like a hard cutoff of minutes
twenty or twenty five, or something but basically would for
like most. Other teams is that a fair assessment? Of,
It Okay So aeron wiggins Wins The Aeron. Wiggins award,
he's like he's actually. Really good but he's also one
of those guys that we, just like we we like as,
a bit like to talk about a lot how good,
he is but it's like. MOSTLY true i, don't know
it's not like at the level Of what i'm gonna
offend people of Like the caleb Or The cody martin's
Or the duopreats or? Who else do we like always
have Bits About frank milakeina just. A, bit again he's
another guy that actually, is good he just never gets
the chance to. Show it so We have wiggins Winning The.
Wiggins Award Scotty. Pippen JR just i think he just is.
A starter I think i've already said that in. THIS
podcast i also Have Teammate, isaiah joe that guy would
start for a lot. Of teams like he's a really
great movement shooter. And defensive it's he does take a
lot of charges that's kind of like the defining feature of.
His defense but he's he's like a, competitive mobile stronger than,
you think but. Undersize defender You Have, peyton pritchard that's
probably he might he maybe should just Win The Aaron
wiggins award because he's just.
Speaker 2: Worth because, it's like and you could get into This With.
Speaker 1: Scotty, pippenworts well they just so small that teams would
prefer to have them come off.
Speaker 2: The bench. Yeahs a joe picks a good, one too because.
Speaker 1: HE'LL screen i THOUGHT about i didn't want to pick
some of the obvious ones Like, nas, Reed RIGHT so
i didn't want to go. That ROUTE so i was
TRYING and i didn't look at the minutes. Cut off
SO if i didn't know there was, A maybe, I
honestly Scotti and peyton they.
Speaker 2: Might do they even. Caught minute Scotti Should peyton pritcher
might be playing too many minutes. For this, but yeah but.
Speaker 3: He fits he fits though because it's but then again
we get back into, the, like well there's one team
he doesn't start for or they're twenty seven that. He
would this.
Speaker 1: Next award might be my favorite because you actually proposed
it and then proceeded not to have a.
Speaker 2: Battle it initially It's The Jackson.
Speaker 3: Haze award It's The Anti, aaron wiggins which is basically
like this guy wouldn't start anywhere else or have a
big role, anywhere Else And jackson hayes wins it in
a landslide because of the award is named. For him it's,
JUST like, i mean he so he's a decent. RIM
protector i think he's like sixtieth percentile in terms of
just like block rate and then does suppress some volume
and efficiency around the room when he's on the floor
relative to when. He's off he's like a fortieth percentile.
Defensive rebounder he makes mistakes all, The time like doesn't
he just he. Shouldn't Start the lakers just have, No
Bigs so i've Got bub. Carrington there that's unfair to
put a. Rookie there but like the numbers just are
what they are of guys that played a ton. Of
minutes he's him and sar actually are both like among
the lowest and estimated. PLUS minus I Have patrick williams
fascinating to think about what his role would be on
like a team that had not invested in him Like the.
Bulls did i'll let you go three year two and three,
there SO.
Speaker 1: And i set up criteria for this to where IT
was i picked one player per team because you could
focus on, the TANKING and i said that they had
to start in like more than half of the games.
Speaker 2: This YEAR so i Went With keon.
Speaker 1: Johnson on then it was between Him Or zion williams on,
the NETS and i, feel like at Least With, zaire, williams,
it's oh we can kind of hold out, of hope
like he turns into this wing that like this but
like different multifaceted wing that we were hoping we're not.
A Star And keon johnson's always kind of had the
limited when it comes like the offensive tool belt and
the range which starts like fifty something games of the
nets this year they were trying to, be bad but
like he was starting before they were and finished starting
but like he started games before they. Were terrible AND
then I Have isaiah callier again maybe not fair to have,
a rookie and his passing is really, really interesting but
when you look at just his efficiency, from base it's
gotten a, little better but from a lot of spots
on the floor where it's gonna, require touch like aside
from being around. The basket you just kind of, wonder,
LIKE well i Know the jazz, aren't experimental, mo like
wouldn't you rather have like someone else here is a
little bit.
Speaker 2: More DYNAMICS so i went.
Speaker 1: With him otherwise you could it got to not that
this award, was easy Like. THE jackson i tried to
make it the Spirit Of, jackson hayes but Like the
jazz And the nets aren't. Good Teams the WIZARDS and
i Guess the bulls Played, For steak so, THERE'S.
Speaker 3: Yeah i could have limited it and maybe in future
years we can set the criteria up to be like
you gotta be on a top six team in, your
conference and then then it's like a little more interesting
because then we can have some debates. Next year That's
what i'm engineering. It, for yeah, you're right you saw right.
Speaker 1: THROUGH it i, Will say i'm Curious If jackson hayes
is gonna get paid By the lakers just because they
want a lab opt like a an Option for Luca
who luca is.
Speaker 2: Familiar.
Speaker 3: With, there Well the lakers have a great read on
what lob threat big guys, are worth, so Uh they'll
i'm sure they'll.
Speaker 1: Be responsible our next category is it's basically the, worst
contract and we had the.
Speaker 2: Same ballot no.
Speaker 1: Surprise here it's Called The Patrick, williams awards so he's on,
the Ballot But, bradley beal and we're using the contract
values like that were this season because we're looking at
it through the lens of. This Season bradley beal, three
years one hundred and sixty one million dollars with a no.
Trade clause that's just that's just the worst contract in the.
Speaker 3: Least tough.
Speaker 2: Yeah Tough joelle embiid five years and two hundred and
ninety nine point.
Speaker 1: Five Million If bradley beal doesn't have a no, trade
clause guess who wins? This Award joel embiid And Then
patrick williams coming in at number three In The Patrick williams.
AWARD category i still with how restricted free agency? Is
gone how does he get a? Player option it's it's it's.
Speaker 3: The scholars dan will puzzle over this question for millennium To.
Speaker 1: Terrify bulls Fans That josh getty's headed into restricted.
Speaker 3: Free agents oh, my god what is he getting a no?
Trade clause in restricted free agency.
Speaker 2: Not eligible, don't worry, It's.
Speaker 3: Okay okay they'll find. A way.
Speaker 2: Next category this one's. Really, interesting yeah.
Speaker 3: So THIS was, i mean it's if you're a, basketball
fan you understand what what a black hole is is
just like the guy got, the ball it's, going up he's,
not passing might scuttle your. Offense entirely it's going to
wreck a bunch. Of possessions, but like also he's kind of,
a bucket, you know like there's it's like tantalizing in a.
Weird WAY SO i i WENT because i, just like
there's so many guys come. TO mind i wanted to
put numbers. On it SO all i did was sort
out over a certain threshold, you know of minutes and field.
Goal attempts these are guys with the worst ratio of
field goal attempts per game to, assist percentage and you
got to have a field goal attempts, per, sorry yeah
per game That IS oh I think i said at.
Like fifteen so you got to, be like you got
to be getting. Them up Number One. Norman powell so
we Both Said norman powell had an. Awesome year that is.
Still true he's, not passing.
Speaker 2: So but he's actually like statistically passing more.
Speaker 3: THAN he, I know, I know, i know, but look
the numbers are what, They. Are dane this is this
is an actual. Proprietary Metric shadon arp Two And jalen,
Green Three zach Lavine And DeMar DeRozan Teammates On, bulls
east were very close to making the top three in.
This award that's a problem when you have two of
these guys on the, same team which actually one of
yours is also, a rocket so that's not Great.
Speaker 1: For, HOUSTON well i MEAN so i, approached it by,
the way this should be like a stat like there you.
Speaker 2: Should go this should be your next proprietary sets like.
Black hole whatever we need.
Speaker 3: An act we'll have to come up with an acronym
for a.
Speaker 2: Black.
Speaker 1: Hole, yeah, WELL no i approached IT as, i said
like IT was i think it was a seven hundred
and fifty, minute MINIMUM and i wanted to do it
more like WHO am i watching?
Speaker 3: To?
Speaker 2: Wear there there can still be that.
Speaker 1: Intrigue there but if, you want, you know they're going
to dribble a, ton probably and if you want something
good to happen for, someone else, like no you don't
necessarily want this player to have. Your POSSESSION so I
went tyroziere, at ONE which i dare anyone to argue
against that this season dribbles way too much and it's
just been terrible across every end of. The spectrum can't
whit MORE like i just never known as like a
passer or, table setter and like there's still the, intrigue
there but He's Not like i'm sufficiently less INTRIGUED than
i was. This year but maybe that's more so the lockdown.
The ROCKETS and i know this is a, deep cut
but LIKE The kJ simpson Experience in charlotte is just
like he'll do, some stuff but.
Speaker 2: It's not it ain't gonna be for.
Speaker 3: Anybody else such a deep cut and. Not wrong not
you know what we need to do we as we,
go forward we need to combine my field goal attempts
per minute versus the sistory with like touch time or
like dribbles PER touch, i think and then we'd really,
have it because then you've got the guy pounding the
air out of the ball just to. Shoot it then
that's really what we're.
Speaker 1: Talking about everyone who's listening, or watching You heard grant
lay out, the criteria come up with a formula, mega
work and then you can let us know who would
have won.
Speaker 2: This Year's Black.
Speaker 1: Hole award, next, up okay this we have the same
ballot for stars who made the, biggest sacrifices which we.
Just defined is like not that the situations, got tougher
although in some cases, they did but they had to
take like. Steps back and so coming in at number
One is domas. A bonis, i mean when you Add
DeMar derozen and then turn over your roster to get
rid Of The aaron fox And Add, zach lavine if
you actually look like no star saw themselves get fewer
touches per seventy five possessions compared to last Year than domas.
A bonus he was also in the top twenty in
the league grant of the increase in time spent away
from the ball. This year coming in at, number two
We Have. Jnovan mitchell he's actually this by, THE way
i don't know if, you've noticed has been the crux
of a lot of his first TEAM all.
Speaker 2: Nba, cases yeah look at the sacrifice.
Speaker 1: He made he definitely, made sacrifices like you're just not
seeing him get as. Many touches he's playing more away from,
the ball AND so i do think. That matters he's
still been allowed to get his usage in the high.
Stakes MOMENTS so i couldn't put him, number ONE but
i DID find i found that interesting that that's how
people were justifying his case for First TEAM.
Speaker 2: All nba he.
Speaker 3: Went, in like we're so deep in the Discourse that
i'm sure you've also heard the like, because yes that
is like a lot, always sacrificing like a lot OF
not i think in a. Different way tatum last year
was credited, FOR that i, think correctly but like his
so then the stock response to oh, he's sacrificing Therefore
HE'S all nba first team, is well is his scoring? Efficiency's?
Down like is he is he only sacrificing? Good shots?
Is that is that what? It? Is like SO just
i don't know that's that's a funny like thing that keeps.
Coming up, but yeah he definitely like a on, Another
team like his role is just gonna be. Way bigger
he's playing with a with a point guard like a
real point Guard in garland And now mobiley is someone
that needs the ball. A LOT so i think that's
a fair a fair nomination there and.
Speaker 1: Number THREE and i think if he wanted to make
this as someone who like you did it and then
it was like had the biggest impact maybe on, His
Team tyre taliburton could have. Won THIS but i also
think that the way he changed so he spent way
more time off. THE ball i think he ended up
being fifth most in the league in the increase in
his time spent away from the ball. This year maybe
that's not, second nature but when you look at kind
of the decline in his true, usage rate which incorporates
playmaking but, also scoring they almost feel like that type
of a sacrifice is more like them Leading Into tyres
albert doesn't want to necessarily be the most aggressive scorer in,
the league so but he's made sacrifice like and it's
it kind of started when They Traded buddy healed because
they needed to use him in all these. Different ACTIONS
and i think that he's important where if you want
to tie, things together Where, It's siakam ben Mcmathrin getting,
andrew nemhard the ability to go downhill or just, Get
Touches tyres haliburn has been a huge part, of that
and so the time spent away from the, ball specifically
like at, this level you had him On AN all,
nba team and other people have had Him ON all.
Nba teams like to make that level of sacrifice and
then your team be maybe the third best team In.
The east like when you're looking at viable, playoff threats monstrous.
Speaker 3: To you you know who we forgot that actually should
be number One Is paul george because he gave up
his podcast.
Speaker 2: During, the season and you think that we would find,
that relatable.
Speaker 3: We, would yeah, you know. It's okay we.
Speaker 1: Make mistakes are you ready for our last our final
awar of.
Speaker 3: The season it.
Speaker 2: Is called they should have? Played more damn THE award i.
Renamed it it's Basically The.
Speaker 1: Duopareath award, Spoiler alert duapareath is on, the ballot coming
in at.
Speaker 2: Number one we have a.
Speaker 1: Consensus Ballot DOMINIC barlow. I tried we tried to make
this as like they needed to have a plausible path
to more. Playing time What about atlanta's center rotation this
year when you look at some of the injuries Or
How clin capella played before he was injured at, one
point makes you think that They Signed dominic barlow to
a two Way. IN july i know they didn't CONVERT him,
toi Later But dominic barlow should have like you give
me a big who can grab. AND go, I mean
i've always been sold, on him But like i'm sold
he should.
Speaker 3: Have played this is a legacy, pick too because like
that's Been The dominic barlow narrative since he was a
two way guy On, The spurs like that's. That forever
he's always been. A, guy like how how come he
doesn't play more? Like that that's the first thing you
talk About With. Dominic, barlow great. GREAT choice i.
Speaker 1: Do have their ranks in total minutes from this, season
Somewhere so i'll find those and then let. You KNOW
but I Think dominic barlow was like at four hundred and.
FORTY six i believe. It, was uh it was pretty.
Freaking low so also low in That duwop Reef just
plazers had injuries in. THE front i know, they're crowded they.
Were deep we called. Them stacks so this is. Somewhat
fair but like the guy who conceptually, is oh he
will shoot threes and like he can make plays around,
the basket he probably should get more than ten minutes.
Speaker 3: A game he's a nomination for something like he could
have been In The Aaron wiggins. Award too these, GUYS
all i mean more so than, Either Well reed shepherd has,
a case but like, as like why isn't this guy
that he should?
Speaker 1: Start Somewhere duop breath was four hundred and fifty fifth in,
Total Minutes dominic barlow was three hundred and eighty second
and our, third pick which this is he would have.
Speaker 2: Been first he's first in.
Speaker 1: My Heart But reed shepherd three hundred and thirty sixth
and total min. Has played he would have been good
if he had. More minutes we just we kind of
like he's Everything the rockets need.
Speaker 2: In theory they're just too good.
Speaker 1: To have let him try to tap into it and
stomach the growing pains come. With it but higher level
picks and maybe not in the spirit of, the award
but very rarely drafted third overall and not even the
top three hundred without like a major injury in total.
Speaker 3: Minutes Played wild you know what this is setting Up
For read shepherd, twenty five Twenty Six Most Improved Player
award that will be highly controversial because that everybody. Like
one it can't go to the second year. Guy too
he was always, this good he just never got.
Speaker 2: A chance will he be doing it For the, Rockets though.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah because they'll Trade for Eed. Van VLEET like
i predicted wrongly before.
Speaker 2: The season my prediction will be that he will do
it For the rockets Or. The suns Those will.
Speaker 3: Those are your. Two, Choices fair thank you everyone for.
Speaker 1: Your submissions we'll try TO do i think we'll do
a separate episode next year and we'll maybe we'll roll
over some of these Categories that GRANT and, i like
so join.
Speaker 2: Our discords it could be a part of that. Submission
process but do you have, Anything, else grant or do
you want to take this out?
Speaker 3: Of here i'm already thinking of all of the awards should,
have acronyms and so that that's going to be an
important part.
Speaker 2: About it so that'll be.
Speaker 1: Your task but your task is for any award that
you physically come up or actually come, UP with i
would like you to have a ballot For.
Speaker 3: And i'll have to actually remember what each letter, stands
For which i've also struggled with in.
Speaker 1: OUR recent i don't know what acronym you're gonna have for,
black hole but that might be that that might be
a tough one.
Speaker 2: To remember i'm.
Speaker 3: Already Thinking like i'm gonna change it from. Black hole
it would be Like The nebula award or like the
some some other synonym for. Black hole that's a year.
Away though thanks everybody, for listening. For, watching uh please
give us your submissions if you've, got any, you know
if we've you've found any of our picks for EVERYTHING
gram Vp To clutch player Of. The, year actually don't
actually miss Me With clutch player of.
Speaker 2: The year takes, be responding. Don't care.
Speaker 3: Please do submit your who's the best player in arbitrary
samples of minutes throughout, The game awards ring. Review. Subscribe
uh if you're if you're watching this, on YouTube make
sure you're gonna leave us a comment there it. Thumbs
up make sure you correct. As well tell, your friends tell.
YOUR enemies i think that's Reinclose the what is this
the third or fourth awards ballots that we've done of?
The season did you count? The preseason he has lots.
Of awards real participation in trophy Culture Shouts Franklin, Pina
Apologies jared allen