WEBVTT

1
00:00:03.960 --> 00:00:07.679
<v Speaker 1>Seven thirty one. That was an.

2
00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:12.400
<v Speaker 2>I just gave it full.

3
00:00:14.279 --> 00:00:20.519
<v Speaker 3>Don't found him guilty even sixteen in him. Well played

4
00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:23.440
<v Speaker 3>Joe Strucker and I seen song bomb for our conversation.

5
00:00:25.879 --> 00:00:26.719
<v Speaker 1>A sound effect.

6
00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:29.519
<v Speaker 3>Welcome back to the fIF five Careocy Morning Show from

7
00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:32.000
<v Speaker 3>the outstanding law firm Porter Right, Steve Good in our

8
00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:34.799
<v Speaker 3>litigation expert Steve. It's always great having you on the

9
00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:38.920
<v Speaker 3>show and it's good to be here Brian. Thanks love

10
00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:41.799
<v Speaker 3>the music. Yeah, that was awesome, well played Joe Strucker,

11
00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:44.600
<v Speaker 3>And on a personal level, thank you for the referral

12
00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:47.039
<v Speaker 3>for the will's trust and a state attorney. Steve, we

13
00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:49.240
<v Speaker 3>had a really great meeting and uh, it's gonna it's

14
00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:52.759
<v Speaker 3>gonna help us out great. So that was that was great.

15
00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:55.799
<v Speaker 3>So count on the lawyers glad to hear. Thank you

16
00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:59.520
<v Speaker 3>for Porter right dot com. All right you saw it,

17
00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:02.039
<v Speaker 3>pgs it and fell two to one. Opinion six Circuit

18
00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:04.480
<v Speaker 3>Us Court of Appeals said, well, they called it a

19
00:01:04.519 --> 00:01:07.480
<v Speaker 3>difficult case, but they allowed the jury to decide the

20
00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:11.560
<v Speaker 3>credibility of the witnesses and his intent in soliciting a

21
00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:17.599
<v Speaker 3>political action contribution in connection with this chideedam nonduque guy,

22
00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:22.200
<v Speaker 3>this real estate development but the dissent highlighted some of

23
00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:25.959
<v Speaker 3>the problems with this because political contributions are a form

24
00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:29.719
<v Speaker 3>of political participation and they're protected to a large degree,

25
00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:32.799
<v Speaker 3>and the condescent said, this may INCENTIVI I have more

26
00:01:32.920 --> 00:01:38.159
<v Speaker 3>more prosecutions. It would be hard to decide. And so

27
00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:41.159
<v Speaker 3>I guess, overall, what's your take on this? And do

28
00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:43.799
<v Speaker 3>you see it to be problematic that they didn't overturn

29
00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:44.359
<v Speaker 3>the conviction.

30
00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:47.239
<v Speaker 4>Uh?

31
00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:49.519
<v Speaker 5>No, I don't see it as problematic at all that

32
00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:52.079
<v Speaker 5>they didn't overturn the conviction. I mean, look, I was

33
00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:56.239
<v Speaker 5>in the unfortunate spot of somebody who lived through a

34
00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:58.799
<v Speaker 5>lot of astrama at city Hall. You know, I was

35
00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:02.519
<v Speaker 5>appointed to one of the seats, not to the pastor

36
00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:05.560
<v Speaker 5>seat after he went to was indicted and ultimately went

37
00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:08.680
<v Speaker 5>to jail. So there really was a culture of corruption

38
00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:10.840
<v Speaker 5>problem at city Hall, and I think that was what,

39
00:02:11.319 --> 00:02:15.240
<v Speaker 5>in their way, the federal prosecutors were trying to address

40
00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:16.680
<v Speaker 5>and trying to get at. And we know it was

41
00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:20.039
<v Speaker 5>a very widespread investigation that looked at a lot of

42
00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:23.240
<v Speaker 5>different people and ultimately charged three. So I don't have

43
00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:25.120
<v Speaker 5>a problem, you know, with that at all. I sat

44
00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:28.280
<v Speaker 5>through the trial. I saw about ninety percent of the

45
00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:31.439
<v Speaker 5>trial and almost all of the testimony, And in my mind,

46
00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:33.879
<v Speaker 5>it was very clear from like the second or third

47
00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:36.599
<v Speaker 5>day that the jury was going to convict him of something,

48
00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:39.400
<v Speaker 5>and there was just a visceral reaction in the room

49
00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:40.719
<v Speaker 5>by the jurors.

50
00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:42.800
<v Speaker 1>And this was during COVID time. They were wearing.

51
00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:45.639
<v Speaker 5>Masks and you could still see that they were aghast

52
00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:47.000
<v Speaker 5>at some of the testimony.

53
00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:48.360
<v Speaker 1>The only thing.

54
00:02:48.199 --> 00:02:50.879
<v Speaker 5>That this court struggled with, and I think the jury

55
00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:53.680
<v Speaker 5>didn't struggle with it, but this court did, was this

56
00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:57.439
<v Speaker 5>idea that he solicited the funds for the quid pro

57
00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:01.360
<v Speaker 5>quote transaction into his political action and didn't keep them

58
00:03:01.400 --> 00:03:05.039
<v Speaker 5>personally like the other two did. Denard and Pastor took

59
00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:08.039
<v Speaker 5>money personally, they spent the money personally. I think Jess

60
00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:11.360
<v Speaker 5>was in cash. No question there that if they changed

61
00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:14.240
<v Speaker 5>their votes or positions based on a cash payment personally,

62
00:03:14.280 --> 00:03:15.719
<v Speaker 5>that's you know, that's.

63
00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:17.800
<v Speaker 1>Not a problem. I mean, that's that's a crime. The

64
00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:20.039
<v Speaker 1>quid pro quo period in this.

65
00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:22.439
<v Speaker 5>Case, the idea, the idea that the money went into

66
00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:25.120
<v Speaker 5>a political action committee I think gave them some pause.

67
00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:28.319
<v Speaker 5>He shares out. Badian says, He's like, look, the line

68
00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:31.159
<v Speaker 5>is blurry, but there is a line under current Supreme

69
00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:34.240
<v Speaker 5>Court precedent. This is something that is still a quid

70
00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:36.479
<v Speaker 5>pro quo. It's still illegal, and we're going to have

71
00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:38.919
<v Speaker 5>to defer to what the jury heard during this almost

72
00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:41.960
<v Speaker 5>three week trial and all the witnesses they heard from,

73
00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:43.960
<v Speaker 5>and their conclusion that it was a quid pro quo,

74
00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:46.439
<v Speaker 5>which I think that was loose in the room for

75
00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:49.240
<v Speaker 5>the first couple of days, particularly some of the audio

76
00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:53.439
<v Speaker 5>and video recordings of PG and in Duke Way and

77
00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:56.520
<v Speaker 5>these FBI agents who are working undercover pretending to be

78
00:03:56.560 --> 00:03:59.960
<v Speaker 5>developers from Nashville. I mean, they got him promising litigation

79
00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:03.520
<v Speaker 5>and promising to pressure the poort authority to help them, uh,

80
00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:05.919
<v Speaker 5>you know, with the deal, all kinds of things. And

81
00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:08.319
<v Speaker 5>and I think the worst part of it is when

82
00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:11.800
<v Speaker 5>they offered him a contribution for his help, he actually

83
00:04:11.800 --> 00:04:13.719
<v Speaker 5>didded them up and said, no, actually I'd like more.

84
00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:17.079
<v Speaker 5>Uh that's that's problematic. And of course every look he's

85
00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:21.199
<v Speaker 5>just soliciting CAMPAI contributions. What I do think is interesting

86
00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:23.360
<v Speaker 5>is it is a split decision of these were three

87
00:04:23.399 --> 00:04:27.399
<v Speaker 5>Trump appointed judges. It was two to one, and even

88
00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:31.120
<v Speaker 5>Eric Murphy. Judge Murphy who was the former Hire Solicitor

89
00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:33.399
<v Speaker 5>Brilliant Guy Trump appointee.

90
00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:37.680
<v Speaker 1>Even though he agreed with h letting.

91
00:04:37.399 --> 00:04:40.079
<v Speaker 5>The convictionion stand, he all that calls for the Supreme

92
00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:42.439
<v Speaker 5>Court to take this up and kind of review this

93
00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:45.759
<v Speaker 5>and try to help draw the line a little more clearly.

94
00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:48.240
<v Speaker 5>But even he ultimately agreed and said this was a

95
00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:50.879
<v Speaker 5>something that needs to be needs to be done.

96
00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:54.000
<v Speaker 1>So my guess is that.

97
00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:56.439
<v Speaker 5>They will seek an en Bock hearing of the full

98
00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:59.360
<v Speaker 5>Sixth Circuit, and if that is unsuccessful, which it rarely is,

99
00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:02.000
<v Speaker 5>I'll probably try to go to the US Supreme Court.

100
00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you answered my question I had written down in back,

101
00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:06.720
<v Speaker 3>and because I had a listener even asked me that

102
00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:08.360
<v Speaker 3>and I said, well, of course he can try. But

103
00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:11.120
<v Speaker 3>I'll get the real expert to answer that question, Steve Gooden.

104
00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:13.560
<v Speaker 3>I'll hold you over. Got quite a few more questions

105
00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:16.680
<v Speaker 3>in connection with this matter, So hang around and we'll

106
00:05:16.680 --> 00:05:19.000
<v Speaker 3>get more info from Steve on this. And I want

107
00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:21.480
<v Speaker 3>to give you for info about Peter Schbier, Keller Williams

108
00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:23.759
<v Speaker 3>and his team at the Shabri Group of Keller Williams

109
00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:27.000
<v Speaker 3>Seven Hills outstanding real estate team, the best in the

110
00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:30.360
<v Speaker 3>business since he's number one real estate team and they've

111
00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.600
<v Speaker 3>got multiple different programs, but they certainly understand, at least

112
00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:35.720
<v Speaker 3>along one line that your life can change really quickly

113
00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:37.879
<v Speaker 3>and you might need to just move very quickly, or

114
00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:41.519
<v Speaker 3>having been through the hassle of selling a home, it

115
00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:43.600
<v Speaker 3>is a hassle, and you might want to not even

116
00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:46.079
<v Speaker 3>go through the hassle of a traditional sales process, which

117
00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:49.240
<v Speaker 3>is painting a room or you know, changing out the carpet,

118
00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:51.680
<v Speaker 3>making the place look a little more presentable, cleaning it,

119
00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:53.560
<v Speaker 3>getting out of the house while the real estate agent

120
00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:55.879
<v Speaker 3>shows it, and all that. How about not doing that?

121
00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:59.240
<v Speaker 3>Sabriu can make a cash offer on your home within

122
00:05:59.319 --> 00:06:02.199
<v Speaker 3>forty eight hours of seeing your home, which means you

123
00:06:02.199 --> 00:06:04.879
<v Speaker 3>can close as quickly as fourteen days after that. That's

124
00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:06.959
<v Speaker 3>just boom boom boom in the real estate world. That

125
00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:08.439
<v Speaker 3>is as fast as it's going to get. So if

126
00:06:08.439 --> 00:06:09.839
<v Speaker 3>you have a property you need to unload in a

127
00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:11.319
<v Speaker 3>hurry or just don't want to go through the hassle,

128
00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:14.079
<v Speaker 3>call the SBRI group today to do that. Learn more,

129
00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:18.000
<v Speaker 3>go to seven zero eight three thousand dot com seven

130
00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:19.920
<v Speaker 3>zero eight three thousand dot com. Of course that's the

131
00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:21.319
<v Speaker 3>phone over. Just stick a five to one three in

132
00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:23.399
<v Speaker 3>front of it five one three seven zero eight three

133
00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:26.480
<v Speaker 3>thousand and if you can't remember that, just remember SBRI

134
00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:29.639
<v Speaker 3>c Cha b riis group and use your search engine

135
00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:31.519
<v Speaker 3>to find them and you will tell them. Brian said,

136
00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:35.680
<v Speaker 3>high when you call fifty five car the talk station

137
00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:38.040
<v Speaker 3>Steve Perrins Coordinated Fund.

138
00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:41.680
<v Speaker 4>Channel nine Weather. We got a winter weather advisor until

139
00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:45.439
<v Speaker 4>eleven am. Slick roads, possible snow flurries. Careful out there.

140
00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:48.120
<v Speaker 4>Forty for the high today, overnight some rain low of

141
00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:52.040
<v Speaker 4>twenty nine. Rainal taper off really early tomorrow morning. We'll

142
00:06:52.040 --> 00:06:54.040
<v Speaker 4>have mostly cloudy skies in a high of thirty two,

143
00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:56.920
<v Speaker 4>clear overnight for a drop to fourteen and thirty seven

144
00:06:56.959 --> 00:06:59.040
<v Speaker 4>on Valentine's Day with clear skies thirty two.

145
00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:00.160
<v Speaker 1>Right now, Time for track.

146
00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:04.279
<v Speaker 6>From the UCL Transings Center. For more than two hundred years,

147
00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:06.399
<v Speaker 6>the experts of u see health have been giving heart

148
00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:10.600
<v Speaker 6>patience and chance for better outcomes. That's boundless care. You

149
00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:14.319
<v Speaker 6>can trust. Expect more at ucehealth dot com. Westbound two

150
00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:18.199
<v Speaker 6>seventy five continues to crawl through Anderson Township due to

151
00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:20.680
<v Speaker 6>a wreck after five mile the rain from the Double

152
00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:23.560
<v Speaker 6>A to west two seventy five remains.

153
00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:24.240
<v Speaker 1>Flocked due to a wreck.

154
00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:27.639
<v Speaker 6>There's a wreck on westbound one nine near the bypass

155
00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:29.439
<v Speaker 6>chuck Ingram on fifty five KR.

156
00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:30.920
<v Speaker 1>And see the talk station.

157
00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:36.279
<v Speaker 3>I'm pretty what.

158
00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:40.519
<v Speaker 2>I hear the train of coming, it's rolling around it,

159
00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:45.600
<v Speaker 2>and I seen the sunshine since I don't know when

160
00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:51.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm stuck and full of prison and time keeps drag

161
00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:59.439
<v Speaker 2>you know what, that train keeps roll own.

162
00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:05.839
<v Speaker 3>There is talk to p Sentfeld whether legal actions from

163
00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:07.759
<v Speaker 3>the law firm or Porter right Steve Good and you

164
00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:09.480
<v Speaker 3>find him on line at porter right dot com. Need

165
00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:12.680
<v Speaker 3>a great litigation attorney or other legal services great place

166
00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:14.959
<v Speaker 3>to stop Steve Good. And a couple more questions, you know,

167
00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:18.279
<v Speaker 3>in terms of you're agreeing with the upholding his conviction

168
00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:24.519
<v Speaker 3>on appeal rather than inviting additional litigation, which is what

169
00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:26.920
<v Speaker 3>what the dissent was kind of in part based on,

170
00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:28.959
<v Speaker 3>you know, this is just this is so close to

171
00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:32.000
<v Speaker 3>call that we shouldn't uphold it because it's just going

172
00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:34.679
<v Speaker 3>to encourage more more politicians to be called under the carpet.

173
00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:36.919
<v Speaker 3>I think it'll have the polar opposite effect. I think

174
00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:40.840
<v Speaker 3>it'll force politicians to keep the bar really really high

175
00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:44.159
<v Speaker 3>and make sure they avoid anything that might be construed

176
00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:45.799
<v Speaker 3>ever as a quid pro quo.

177
00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:51.759
<v Speaker 1>I think that's the idea behind the prosecution. Brian.

178
00:08:51.879 --> 00:08:54.559
<v Speaker 5>It's like if you you know, and I've worked in

179
00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.679
<v Speaker 5>a US attorney's office, and what they typically try to

180
00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:01.759
<v Speaker 5>do is focus on deterrence. Now, like, one of the

181
00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:05.639
<v Speaker 5>worst kept secrets in the legal community is that the

182
00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:09.039
<v Speaker 5>federal prosecutors have actually pretty limited resources, and when they

183
00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:12.559
<v Speaker 5>go after an area of crime, you know, they have

184
00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:16.559
<v Speaker 5>to you know, make examples and try to pick a

185
00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:20.159
<v Speaker 5>high series of high profile cases and an effort to

186
00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:23.360
<v Speaker 5>sort of hopefully have a long term deterrence effect. We

187
00:09:23.399 --> 00:09:25.879
<v Speaker 5>saw them do that locally with some of the doctor

188
00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:28.720
<v Speaker 5>cases they did during the opioid crisis and pharmacies they

189
00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:29.200
<v Speaker 5>went after.

190
00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:30.960
<v Speaker 1>They couldn't go after them.

191
00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.600
<v Speaker 5>All, so their only hope was to do a handful

192
00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:36.720
<v Speaker 5>of really high profile prosecutions that would be in the

193
00:09:36.759 --> 00:09:39.919
<v Speaker 5>media and that that would actually deter some of the crime.

194
00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:42.279
<v Speaker 5>That's why, you know, we always often joke that the

195
00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:46.080
<v Speaker 5>federal prosecutors prosecute by press release as much as anything else,

196
00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:48.519
<v Speaker 5>because they really want people to know what they're doing.

197
00:09:48.919 --> 00:09:51.919
<v Speaker 5>So that's absolutely right. I mean, there's a deterrence factor here.

198
00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:55.120
<v Speaker 5>We know that this investigation went all over the state.

199
00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:57.840
<v Speaker 5>They looked at small city council's, township trustees all the

200
00:09:57.879 --> 00:09:59.960
<v Speaker 5>way up than the northern part of Ohio that came

201
00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:02.679
<v Speaker 5>during the trial. I think the idea was to try

202
00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:06.720
<v Speaker 5>to get around the state geographically focus on local elected officials.

203
00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:10.159
<v Speaker 5>Under this quick pro quote theory, it's not clear that

204
00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:13.200
<v Speaker 5>the task force in the undercover agents are even still

205
00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:16.000
<v Speaker 5>operating in the area. In fact, the way they testified,

206
00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:18.600
<v Speaker 5>I think it's very very unlikely. So I think the

207
00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:22.440
<v Speaker 5>idea here was to have some sort of deterrence, and

208
00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:24.759
<v Speaker 5>they probably knew that the law, you know, was at

209
00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:29.399
<v Speaker 5>least it's very clear as written in the United States Code,

210
00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:31.879
<v Speaker 5>but some of the Supreme Court cases around it make

211
00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:35.159
<v Speaker 5>it more difficult to enforce. It was an aggressive move,

212
00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:37.240
<v Speaker 5>but you do, at the end of the day, have

213
00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:40.600
<v Speaker 5>these three elected officials who are all three either call

214
00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:45.519
<v Speaker 5>it on tape, text email, or some electronic means saying

215
00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:48.120
<v Speaker 5>if you give me money to my campaign or me

216
00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:51.320
<v Speaker 5>money personally, I will change my vote. And that's a problem.

217
00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:54.600
<v Speaker 5>And I do think if nothing else that that has

218
00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:56.759
<v Speaker 5>been cleaned up. Now the flip side is I think

219
00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:59.360
<v Speaker 5>it also has made the folks at city Hall almost

220
00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:02.679
<v Speaker 5>terrified to engage in basic constituent services for fear that

221
00:11:02.679 --> 00:11:04.960
<v Speaker 5>they're being recorded. I think it's actually having to effect

222
00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:06.919
<v Speaker 5>the other way. As someone who has just trying to

223
00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.799
<v Speaker 5>drive the city streets this morning in the snow that

224
00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:13.200
<v Speaker 5>really wasn't meaningfully cleaned off, you know, I can tell

225
00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:16.039
<v Speaker 5>you it's just, you know, I think it's a chilling

226
00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:19.399
<v Speaker 5>effect almost the other way. We haven't seen a lot

227
00:11:19.399 --> 00:11:21.840
<v Speaker 5>of big new development deals since all this happened. It

228
00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:25.759
<v Speaker 5>was a big, credible period there, so it's worse from

229
00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:30.279
<v Speaker 5>that standpoint, and that's not uncommon. But you know, I think,

230
00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:34.759
<v Speaker 5>you know, I'm less concerned about the frankly, the nitty

231
00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:36.720
<v Speaker 5>gritty legal part of it, which I think is going

232
00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:38.720
<v Speaker 5>to play out however it plays out. I think there

233
00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:40.840
<v Speaker 5>is a splim chance the Supreme Court will take a

234
00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:44.799
<v Speaker 5>look at this. But that said, it has to turn

235
00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:47.320
<v Speaker 5>some of the behavior, at least in my experience.

236
00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:50.039
<v Speaker 3>As to your other point, I may just be a

237
00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:53.840
<v Speaker 3>reflection of the poor quality of the elected official or

238
00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:56.320
<v Speaker 3>the lack of funds to get any projects done, because

239
00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:58.320
<v Speaker 3>we do have a financial situation gone in the city

240
00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:01.919
<v Speaker 3>of Cincinnati. But beyond that now is going back to

241
00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:03.799
<v Speaker 3>the point in the Supreme Court you said slim chance,

242
00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:06.240
<v Speaker 3>and that's kind of what I thought. And you also

243
00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:08.519
<v Speaker 3>mentioned earlier least in so far as having the entire

244
00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:12.320
<v Speaker 3>sixth Circuit judge all the six Circuit judge panels hit

245
00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:15.600
<v Speaker 3>here in unbunked rehearing of this, you suggest that that

246
00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:20.039
<v Speaker 3>was a slim slim possibility as well. But behind the scenes,

247
00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:23.679
<v Speaker 3>the law that governs this is it something that needs

248
00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:26.399
<v Speaker 3>to be clarified much such as the Supreme Court might

249
00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:29.000
<v Speaker 3>very well consider it because a, we can't have this

250
00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:31.279
<v Speaker 3>gray area floating around out there anymore.

251
00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:36.399
<v Speaker 5>Well, you know, I don't think the area is that

252
00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:39.960
<v Speaker 5>gray personally. I mean, really, what it boils down to

253
00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:42.720
<v Speaker 5>is the is the bribery statute, which has been in

254
00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:46.519
<v Speaker 5>the General Criminal Code for you know, forty fifty years

255
00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:49.200
<v Speaker 5>in its current forum, and the Hobzact, this idea that

256
00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:53.879
<v Speaker 5>bribery a by a public official is uniquely bad and

257
00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:56.320
<v Speaker 5>a kind of unique and separate crime because you're depriving

258
00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:58.879
<v Speaker 5>people of the quote, honest goods and services they could

259
00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:01.639
<v Speaker 5>expect from an elected off So I don't think that's.

260
00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:02.559
<v Speaker 1>Likely to be touched.

261
00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:06.159
<v Speaker 5>What's at issue is this case called McDonald, which is

262
00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:09.200
<v Speaker 5>a US Supreme Court case from about four or five

263
00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:10.399
<v Speaker 5>years ago that deals with.

264
00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:11.519
<v Speaker 1>The governor of Virginia.

265
00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:14.559
<v Speaker 5>There's a lot of where he was accused of doing

266
00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:18.200
<v Speaker 5>quid pro quot type things for his donors, but really,

267
00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:20.480
<v Speaker 5>when you got to the bottom of that case, he

268
00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:23.440
<v Speaker 5>wasn't engaged in what they call official acts. He was

269
00:13:23.480 --> 00:13:26.799
<v Speaker 5>helping the donors, you know, with little things around the side.

270
00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:29.559
<v Speaker 5>He was introducing them to people who might help them

271
00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:33.000
<v Speaker 5>with government contracts, but not actually steering the contract their way,

272
00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:36.960
<v Speaker 5>giving them meetings and calling them out on in speeches

273
00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:38.919
<v Speaker 5>and things of that nature. And they could never really

274
00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:42.440
<v Speaker 5>prove that he moved any legislation directly for them or

275
00:13:42.519 --> 00:13:44.759
<v Speaker 5>moved money directly to and he helped them, but they

276
00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:47.480
<v Speaker 5>didn't do much. And that's really what that case hung on.

277
00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:50.840
<v Speaker 5>And that's what Sittenfeldt's team has been arguing from the

278
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:53.440
<v Speaker 5>beginning is that, look, this wasn't a true official act.

279
00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:56.960
<v Speaker 5>PG was always out there pushing development deals. He was

280
00:13:57.000 --> 00:13:59.519
<v Speaker 5>pro development. This was something he would have been doing anyway.

281
00:13:59.559 --> 00:14:02.639
<v Speaker 5>It was more tend to that. But in the reality,

282
00:14:02.840 --> 00:14:05.879
<v Speaker 5>you know, he actually factually crossed the line here to

283
00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:10.559
<v Speaker 5>callingport authority officials and trying to introduce legislation and you know,

284
00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:12.840
<v Speaker 5>and things of that nature for a project we now

285
00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:15.720
<v Speaker 5>know didn't even exist. Really, it was just something that

286
00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:19.320
<v Speaker 5>that Defense undercover agents had totally cooked up a real location,

287
00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:20.919
<v Speaker 5>but a fake project.

288
00:14:21.399 --> 00:14:22.759
<v Speaker 1>So it is different here.

289
00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:26.240
<v Speaker 5>For Actually, I think the McDonald's case is something that

290
00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:28.720
<v Speaker 5>they might one day want to revisit because it does

291
00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:32.240
<v Speaker 5>seem to open a door for arguments that could be

292
00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:36.480
<v Speaker 5>made about whether or not a government official does something

293
00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:39.080
<v Speaker 5>that's a true quid pro quo. But I don't think

294
00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.559
<v Speaker 5>those are these are good facts for him to take up.

295
00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:44.039
<v Speaker 5>I mean they might, I mean, I do note that

296
00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:49.320
<v Speaker 5>the new Trump Justice administration really does seem to be

297
00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:56.320
<v Speaker 5>casting a a tough I I guess on public corruption investigations.

298
00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:59.240
<v Speaker 5>I mean, they've seen press reports that they're kind of

299
00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:04.279
<v Speaker 5>folding up their Adams investigation in New York at Trump's direction.

300
00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:06.039
<v Speaker 5>And I do know that they've been looking at the

301
00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:09.440
<v Speaker 5>kind of Foreign Corruption Act prosecutions which have been very

302
00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.840
<v Speaker 5>popular that have kind of caught up people like Paul

303
00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:16.240
<v Speaker 5>Manafort kind of from the Trump circle. And I've read

304
00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:18.279
<v Speaker 5>that they're telling those folks to stand down in the

305
00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:20.360
<v Speaker 5>Justice Department on any new cases until the.

306
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:23.080
<v Speaker 1>Law can be reviewed and revisited.

307
00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:27.600
<v Speaker 5>So maybe this ironically pg sudentsvald who is a very

308
00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:33.759
<v Speaker 5>very progressive, traditional democratic politician. I mean, the Trump election

309
00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:36.240
<v Speaker 5>in the new Trump Justice Department might be one of

310
00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:40.080
<v Speaker 5>his few avenues to get this looked at again in

311
00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:43.600
<v Speaker 5>some way. But in terms of just really revamping the law,

312
00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:46.480
<v Speaker 5>I think it's pretty clear. If you actually find yourself

313
00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:50.240
<v Speaker 5>in a conversation as an elected official where someone is

314
00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:54.559
<v Speaker 5>linking directly linking a campaign contribution to an actual vote,

315
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:57.399
<v Speaker 5>that's a quid pro quo and that's something you can't do.

316
00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:01.320
<v Speaker 3>Stop it right then and there. In debt in terms

317
00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:03.360
<v Speaker 3>of him staying and will he remain out of jail,

318
00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:05.600
<v Speaker 3>I know he's released from jail pending appeal now the

319
00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:08.639
<v Speaker 3>appeals over will they let him out and tending the

320
00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:12.679
<v Speaker 3>Supreme Court's review of the request for register cherrari or

321
00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:16.440
<v Speaker 3>his request for an end bank hearing, and how long

322
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:17.519
<v Speaker 3>does that process take?

323
00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:18.639
<v Speaker 1>Usually Steve.

324
00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:22.399
<v Speaker 5>Well, I'll tell you it's it's this is the stuff

325
00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:25.399
<v Speaker 5>that drives people nuts about the federal criminal system. The

326
00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:30.200
<v Speaker 5>answer to that question isn't exactly clear, you know, at

327
00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:33.320
<v Speaker 5>this point, you know, while the en banc process is

328
00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:36.159
<v Speaker 5>going forward, which could take you know, a couple of months,

329
00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.600
<v Speaker 5>he is likely to remain out. Even though the Bureau

330
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:43.360
<v Speaker 5>of Prisons, the Federal Bureau of Prisons, actually has some

331
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:47.039
<v Speaker 5>administrative ability where they could actually now that the appeal

332
00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:50.039
<v Speaker 5>has been resolved in the in the government's favor, they

333
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:53.240
<v Speaker 5>actually could set a date require him to report. In

334
00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:55.559
<v Speaker 5>all likelihood, they're going to let this on banc piece

335
00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:58.039
<v Speaker 5>play out, and then it would really be up to

336
00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:00.559
<v Speaker 5>the Supreme Court if they take the case to grant

337
00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:04.720
<v Speaker 5>another stay, because then the Sixth Circuit would lose jurisdiction

338
00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.119
<v Speaker 5>and because they didn't send the case back down for

339
00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:09.559
<v Speaker 5>any kind of error, you know, Judge Cole and the

340
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:12.079
<v Speaker 5>District Court has no jurisdiction to inter a state too.

341
00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:15.839
<v Speaker 5>So if the en bog piece doesn't work, you know,

342
00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:20.119
<v Speaker 5>then he will you know, he will likely be and

343
00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:22.319
<v Speaker 5>the Supreme Court piece doesn't work, then the Bureau of

344
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.960
<v Speaker 5>Prisons will just finally set a report date for him.

345
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:27.759
<v Speaker 5>Because it's a non violent offense. In my experience, they're

346
00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:30.200
<v Speaker 5>not going to send Marshalls out to go pick him up.

347
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:32.480
<v Speaker 5>You know, they'll do something a little more civilized, as

348
00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:34.240
<v Speaker 5>they like to say. They'll probably just say, he look,

349
00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:37.160
<v Speaker 5>you need to be here, you know, three weeks from

350
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.200
<v Speaker 5>Saturday and the Yeah, they give people time to wrap

351
00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:42.279
<v Speaker 5>up their personal affairs and so forth.

352
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:47.839
<v Speaker 1>So amazingly that is not very clear. Yeah, exactly exactly,

353
00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:51.440
<v Speaker 1>Steve Gooden about another ten months to go.

354
00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:54.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and you know, by the time the Supreme Court hearing,

355
00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:56.279
<v Speaker 3>if they had granted certain heard the case, he'd already

356
00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:58.400
<v Speaker 3>have served his time. So I don't know if moot

357
00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:00.720
<v Speaker 3>comes in or if they just give them up a

358
00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:05.480
<v Speaker 3>post conviction, I don't know. You can't unring the bell

359
00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:07.559
<v Speaker 3>having time serve. That's all I know is Steve Goodin.

360
00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:09.559
<v Speaker 3>God bless you, sir. Thanks for you sharing your time

361
00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:11.440
<v Speaker 3>with my listeners and me and giving us your thoughtful

362
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.200
<v Speaker 3>at Sage Wisdom. And I'll look forward to having you

363
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:15.960
<v Speaker 3>on the program once we get another legal case to

364
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:16.480
<v Speaker 3>talk about.

365
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Hey, thank you so much, birch.

366
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:21.720
<v Speaker 3>Hey, I have a good day, you too, seven fifty

367
00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:23.720
<v Speaker 3>two right now if you five KC DETALX station imaging

368
00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:27.039
<v Speaker 3>can be affordable, new calendar year, new set of out

369
00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:30.680
<v Speaker 3>of pocket responsibility and a five thousand dollars CT scam

370
00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:33.640
<v Speaker 3>bill from your hospital. That's a bad combo, So don't

371
00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:35.279
<v Speaker 3>do that. Don't go to the hospital for your imaging.

372
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:38.039
<v Speaker 3>Go to affordable imaging services where that CT scam won't

373
00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:40.440
<v Speaker 3>cost you five grand. It'll cost you six hundred. That's

374
00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:44.279
<v Speaker 3>with a contrast, and it includes a board certified radiologists

375
00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:46.200
<v Speaker 3>report with you and your doctoral both get within forty

376
00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:49.000
<v Speaker 3>eight hours. Take out the contrast, take away one hundred

377
00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:50.960
<v Speaker 3>and fifty bucks. It's four to fifty for a CT

378
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:53.160
<v Speaker 3>without a contrast. I got one schedule for April with

379
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:56.880
<v Speaker 3>Affordable Imaging Services MRI six forty five with a contrast

380
00:18:56.960 --> 00:18:59.559
<v Speaker 3>four ninety five without echo cartograms only four hundred and

381
00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:03.599
<v Speaker 3>ninety five ultrasound two fifty cardiac scoring in long screams

382
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:06.319
<v Speaker 3>only ninety nine bucks. Again, the report comes with it.

383
00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:09.799
<v Speaker 3>Don't pay the outrageous hospital prices. Why would you when

384
00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:11.279
<v Speaker 3>you can have a choice when it comes to your

385
00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:14.000
<v Speaker 3>medical care. The number to call five one three seven, five, three,

386
00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:16.720
<v Speaker 3>eight thousand. It's low overhead, folks. I'm not gonna I'm

387
00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:18.640
<v Speaker 3>not gonna say it's not. But it's the same kind

388
00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:21.440
<v Speaker 3>of equipment the hospitals use the images turn out great.

389
00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:24.160
<v Speaker 3>I've gotten few done there five one three seven, five

390
00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:27.319
<v Speaker 3>three eight thousand. Learn more online. Go to Affordable Medimaging

391
00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:31.119
<v Speaker 3>dot com fifty five KRC dot com if it emerge