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Speaker 1: Here's what you're really asking. See, you're not asking what

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scholarly work some reading. You were saying, are you reading

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Saint Basil the Great? Yes? Yeah, are you reading that right?

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John Chris System on wealthy poverty? Yes? These are all libs.

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By the way, like there's not one of these guys

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that isn't I mean, it's not one of them.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've been saying for a long time the only

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people who can rightfully talk about social justice or the

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medieval Catholics and everyone else should shut up.

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Speaker 1: These are late antiquity right, lovely apostolic bothers. You know,

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that's good one. That's that's a pastern.

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Speaker 2: Ask not what your country can do for you, Ask

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what you can do for your country, mister Gorbachew, Tear

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down this wall.

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Speaker 3: It's the Ricochet Podcast with Stephen Hayward and Rob Long.

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I'm James Lilex. Today we're going to talk to Mark

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recorying about of course immigration exilettes I was a podcast.

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Speaker 1: You say to those that you're using a two hundred

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year old door, it's a circumvent you an.

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Speaker 2: Old law not as well as constitution. We still pay

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attention to that, don't we. But someone take this man.

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Speaker 4: We're going to be returning education very simply back to

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the states where it belongs.

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Speaker 1: And this is a.

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Speaker 4: Very popular thing to do, but much more importantly, it's

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a common sense thing to do and it's going to work.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's going to work.

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Speaker 3: Welcome everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast number seven hundred and

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thirty three. And do we have a surprise for you today?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you got me James Lodax in Minneapolis. You got

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Stephen Hayward probably in California. But we have Rob Long,

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who I guess has come out of the monastery on

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the East coast. Tom Seward in his robe with a

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little you know, white.

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Speaker 1: Benefiting belt and the rest of it.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back, Rob, It's always good to see you.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I have to say, it's like I

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know that says seminary is a Princeton theological seminary, and

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so people have this idea of it like that, you know,

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we're walking around in robes. When I had dinner I

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don't know last year round this time with Greg Gottfeldt

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on our one of our regular dinners, and I was like, hey, listen,

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by the way, I'm just going to this Prinson Theological Seminary,

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and he's like, really, wow, it's amazing. So what does

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that mean for the show. You can't do the show anymore?

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I said, no, I can, Greg, I can do the show.

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It's Princeton, it's not that far away. So they'll they'll

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let you out for the show. Say well, Greg, isn't

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like you. They don't let you out like you. I

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can leave anytime. It's a school. As I'm getting a graduate,

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it's a graduate school. Oh okay, But even now he

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doesn't quite figure out. When I show up at the show,

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He's like, so, like, are you like out now? How

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does that work?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 1: No, So, yes, it's a normal graduate school in the

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sense that I'm surrounded by younger, young people, and I'm

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learning that I.

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Speaker 3: Would never assume, even in an old monastery, that they

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would keep them on the grounds. I mean they were not.

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It's not like they were forbidden to go out. It's

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just for to stay where they were made their job,

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their life, the contemplation easier. But yes, of course you

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can go. I mean it is a bit red. Does

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he think perhaps that you would be chained to a desk,

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you know, doing an illuminated manuscript with a quill or

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something like that.

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Speaker 1: I think he was hoping for that, and I think

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he could kill That was his goal, like to like

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to have me come a bald head except for one

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little thing of hair coming out? What do you mean?

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That was my goal too.

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Speaker 3: We're going to trouble you with worldly matters now and Stephen,

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any worldly matters or the last oh, I don't know,

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seventeen minutes they're broken or something like that.

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Speaker 2: The place right well, I have refresh Twitter about every

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thirty seconds to see the latest federal judge imposing some

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kind of restriction on the Trump administration, because they seem

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to come at about.

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Speaker 3: Three or four a day. Right now, Well, are they

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going to stand up? Is Robert's going to say? And

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you know the guy, he's got a point. What is

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going to be the end result of all this? Are

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the judges discovering brave, bold, new powers previously not allocated.

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Speaker 1: Or is this something that they are entirely entitled to do?

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Speaker 2: Well? For a very quick points, one is Trump has

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had more I think federal judges interfering with his plans

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than happened in the entire twentieth century. In other words,

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temporary restraining orders or injunctions. Second, there's three parts to it.

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One is his power to fire people in the executive branch.

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That's one of the legal issues. The second one is

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his power over spending, and that has many parts to

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it as well that depend a lot on what the

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specific language of a congressional statute might be, so that

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gets tangled in a hurry. Then the third is, and

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this is the most controversial part, is can a federal

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judge who's supposed to just be a trial judge in

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their district, can they issue nationwide injunctions and restraining orders?

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And this has never been reviewed by the Supreme Court.

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Several justices have said they don't like this practice. And

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so I think that's the big question right now, and

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I think that's the one that they're going to have

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to confront at the Supreme Court. Yeah, very soon.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I think it's also the good I mean, all

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these things aren't the same. I mean, I really don't

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think that the chief executive has the right or the

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power to to change the way Congress has chosen to

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spend money. I mean, in a way, Congress has got

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to do that. I think, on the other hand, why

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the chief executive can't hire and fire everybody in the

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executive branch of government is baffling to me. That's the

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that has to be one of the chief definitions of

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a chief executive of a branch. Right, you get to

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like pick who your staff is, all the way down

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to the guy who, like, you know, I don't know

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what makes the coffee. So that so all these things

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need to be teased out. We have been so lazy

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as a country for so long and basically allowing if

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you're on the left, you think it's great that the

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president has all these powers because he's my guy. And

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then if you're on the right, like it's great at

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the president of lege powers because he's my guy. In

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the minute that changes, everbody acts like, my god, how

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did this happen? You fascist dictator? You know, it'd be

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good for us to sort these things out. And I

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think sort them out along the lines that you know

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the founders originally did, which is that, yes, you know,

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you got a bunch of people elected, did they get

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to choose how they're going to spend, raise and spend

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your money? And then you have an executive chief executive

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who gets to you know, CEO, the whole thing. I

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don't know that that system seemed to work. I mean,

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people blaming Trump for this, as much as I would

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love to blame Trump for everything bad, it's like, no,

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he's this is the logical conclusion of a thing that

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began in nineteen thirty when was that FDR elected whenever?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thirty three act pretty much, but it is some

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that's older than that, though, Rob. I mean, the question

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about whether the president could withhold funds that Congress had

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appropriated starts with Thomas Jefferson, so and it has never

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been entirely sorted out. A simple way I think for

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listeners to think about it, because it can't get technical,

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is to say the Constitution says that, or we say

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that the Constitution says that Congress has the power of

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the purse, and what that really means is the power

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to put money in the purse, and the president is

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the one who takes it out of the purse and

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spends it for the purposes to which it's been appropriated.

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Speaker 1: If the appropriation is.

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Speaker 2: Vague, and many of them are, then I think there's

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more latitude for a president to say, no, I'm not

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going to spend it on this or that or this

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is a mistake or something like that. That's what Jefferson

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did two hundred plus years ago. If Congress is specific

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and we're all familiar with the scandals of earmarks, you know,

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a clauset a bill that says I want six million

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dollars for a post office in my district. That's specific

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enough that the president has less discretion. And so it's

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somewhere in between heres where we are a bit of

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a no man's land. And finally, after as I say,

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two hundred years of intermittent empowerments by presidents, I think

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we're now going to finally clarify this and Congress will

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either have to do this job better or you know,

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we're going to have to sort it out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean everyone's afraid of the answer, right, and

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the left is afraid of the answer, and the right

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is afraid of the left is afraid that the answer

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is going to be the people don't want to need this,

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and the right is going to be is afraid the

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answer is going to be the people want all of it.

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They want all of it, And that is that's why

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we kept a murky for so long. I mean, I

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would actually be willing my grand bargain to everybody is

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to say, look all earmarks, pork barrel spending all okay, fine,

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go right ahead, one knock yourself out, in exchange for

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never writing in any spending or spending authorization bill to

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phrase the Secretary shall or at the Secretary's discretion check

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that to me is I'll I'll give you. I'll give

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you the Robert Byrd Memorial Traffic Safety Building Members one

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through ninety seven in West Virginia, in exchange for never

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ever saying again the Secretary shall right.

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Speaker 3: People don't in general want all of it. They want

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their part. They want the part that comes to their community.

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Perhaps they want their social security, their Medicare, and the

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rest of it. But when it comes to many the

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things that we learn government are spending on, I don't

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think they're very popular. And I'm very happy that the

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other side has chosen a variety of hill on which

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to die which are not particularly attractively aesthetically, politically, intellectually.

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You want to make the argument that it is necessary

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for somebody to work half the year so that the

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entirety of the money they contribute to the tax coffers

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should go to an agency. On the other side of

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the globe, which then pumps it into an NGO that

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is studying disinformation technique in Scotland. No, not going to happen,

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And when people realize this is what's going on, we think, well, how.

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Speaker 1: Did this happen?

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Speaker 3: Exactly? Well, because we haven't had specific budgets, but we've

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been ruled by continuing resolutions, which is like stuff in

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a burritle full of something, eating it halfway and then

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putting it aside, and then restuffing it next year, and

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everything gets rolled over and rolled over until the ingredients

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are all intermingled and it's a mess and no one knows.

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Burn it down and then build it up. That seems

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to be the idea. Now, no one's ever tried this before,

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but if they, you can actually find speeches by Bill

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Clinton and Barack Obama talking about the need to go

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through government line by line. You, I mean, Bill Clinton

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was all about that government efficiency project. Barack Obama said

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he was going to go line by line. Is it

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only bad when the other side does it well? Or

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did you just know that nobody really meant it at

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all in the first place, which I think is the case.

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But you know, we'll see education department is going to

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be the big argument now, and this one is shaping

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up to be as clearheaded and as non inflammatory, and

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it's rhetoricaus everything else. I love the fact that people

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say seventh graders can't read, fourth graders can't count beyond five,

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college students can't write a paragraph, and this is the

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time to destroy the Department of Educators. That well, no, actually,

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that's the argument for perhaps changing what we've been doing

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thus far. Where do you think this is going to go?

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Speaker 1: Guys?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there are many programs in that the

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Department of Education oversees that are driven by statute. So

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Trump can't just wipe those away at the stroke of

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a pen or with Obama's phone if he borrows in.

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But he could move them to other departments. I think

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that's what's happen in the executive orders. Let's move certain

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student loan programs and certain other grants and aids to

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other departments and break up the monopoly the Department of Education.

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By the way, the rump you leave behind is some

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of the really bad and ideological stuff, and that might

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make it easier for Congress then to kill it. Or

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the latest idea is see if you can't wrap getting

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rid of the Department of Education in the reconciliation budget

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process later in the year, that will require only fifty

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one votes, so it will get around the inevitable democratic filibuster.

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Maybe that will work and we'll just have to see

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how it goes. As Trump likes to say, but I

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think Trump as usual is on the attack and has

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the back on their heels, and that's fun to watch.

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Speaker 3: I haven't heard anything you said since you use the

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phrase of the rump you leave behind. Yeah, well he

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was actually a torch song from nineteen forty two.

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Speaker 1: Rob. Yeah. I think it's I mean, look, it's this

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is a thing that I mean, this is a thing

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that conservatives have been like about, like this is crazy,

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and then and now that it's happening, it's like, well,

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wait a minute, is it really happening. I mean, I

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kind of don't I kind of I will not believe

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it's happening until the I see the for rent you know,

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office space sign in the building. But it's you know,

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and I have no doubt and no lack of confidence

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that the Trump administration can fumble this and make this

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a disaster for them, and also not accomplish it just

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toxify the topic, because they're toxic in a lot of ways.

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But this simple argument is, you know, is your child,

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is your children, as George W. Bush said, is your

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children being educated?

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Speaker 3: Is it?

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Speaker 1: Is it better or worse? Do you think that it's

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better for there to be a pot of money in

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DC that's sort of sprinkled around the nation, or you

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think it's better for all that to go back to

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your neighborhood and your school. And I just don't think anybody.

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I mean, if you look at all the surveys and

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people and their education, they generally believe in school choice.

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Like that's actually a very popular idea at school choice

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school vouchers. That tends to be popular. And then when

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you say to those parents who are in favor of it, okay,

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it's going to be a little chaotic. Obviously for the

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first two three four years, they always say, well that

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I'm against it because I have jury rigged and sorted

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out my kids school and I don't want to mess

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it up because I figured it out and I don't

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want to mess it up. And then that's usually when

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the school choice of initiatives go down. Arizona is a big,

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big Arizona is a fantastic you know, Governor, do you

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see in Arizona's great hero for this right? So the

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question is whether people are going to have that psychology

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is going to be applied to this too. Like I

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generally agree with your idea, say some voters, and the

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Department of Education is foolish and hasn't really accomplished the mission.

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But I'm not sure I want to throw it away.

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And I think there's subtle argument that the Trump people

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are gonna have to make.

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Speaker 3: It's something that I see all the time on Twitter.

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There are two ideas. One in the Department of Education

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is a tremendous waste of money and we should give

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it back to the localities. And two, when you look

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at these craziest school boards and the things they're saying,

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so okay, right, fine, so we'll have to do something

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about the local school boards then too. If they really,

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if the Trump administration really wanted to get everybody on

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board with destroying the dismantling the Department of Education, they

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would push through an America first, classical Western aesthetics, patriotic

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agenda that must be filtered down to every single school

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district and taught and the follicles on fire would be

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extraordinary all across the spectrum. This would be seen as

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another attempt Nazi like to take the culture and indoctrinate

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it from the top down winds. I tend to suspect

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is to being done nowadays anyway, just from a different direction.

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Stephen anything, before we go to the guest portion of

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our piece.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's just remember that federal aid education didn't start

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till the nineteen sixties, which is relatively.

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Speaker 1: Recent, when it had started getting really better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and I mean, how do generations of American

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children ever get educated without federal dollars? Then? Second, I

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sometimes challenge people or defy people. Tell me one thing

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about public education that the Department of Education has improved

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with data, right, They've like lots of data, and you

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can't They've had no effect on it. And finally, the

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constitutional point, you know, the point that's starting in the sixties.

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It was the late James COO. Wilson used to say,

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because there's nothing in the Constitution about education, it's not

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in the enumerated powers of Congress, it was left to

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the states. And that was he said. That was the

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moment when we crossed the line constitutionally to saying Congress

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can now appropriate money for anything and blur, and it

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wrote federalism further and so forth. So I think it's

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long overdue to get rid of the department, and then

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it will get better, as I think, for all the

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reasons Rob knows and has advocated for so long.

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Speaker 3: True, well, at least in bluryers will be happy about

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it because they'll get better workers. And doesn't that sound

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like some horrible thing you just want a bunch of drones. No,

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they just want people who can make change without having

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to consult an app on their phone. I mean, if

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you're a business owner, for example, you might have felt

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frustrated with hiring, or you just might feel totally lost

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completely when it comes to be.

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Speaker 1: Gone so long, I forgot how these these segways go.

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Speaker 3: I hope you had. I'm glad I'm not going to

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interrupt them, because as a problem, that's still a problem.

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You're bad for business when something that people right now

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are no doubt recalling with nostalgia and which you just

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get on with the damn dad, right h hr hr

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is what I'm talking about here. You know, it's not

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what you do best. If you're a business owner frankly,

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because you know that's you do your business, not the HR.

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Speaker 1: But what you do.

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we thank bamboo hr for responsoring this the Brigachet Podcast. Now,

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00:17:43,759 --> 00:17:46,319
welcome back to the podcast. Mark or Korean, executive director

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of the Center for Immigration Studies and the host of

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the Parsing Immigration Policy podcast. A lot of plosives in

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that one, and you can find that excellent series right

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here on the Ricochet Audio Network. Mark, how are you.

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Speaker 5: I'm doing very well.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me speaking of plosives and peas and

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all the rest of these things. We have a new

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paradigm in town. It seems Customs Border Protection released report

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seventy percent drop and encounters at the southern border. What

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massive government program was put into place that did that?

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Did they actually build a wall that we were looking?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 5: No, a climate change ended, poverty, all of those things ended,

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and magically the flow just stopped. In fact, what happened

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was the policy changed. The reason people were coming is

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because they could get away with it, and they could

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succeed under Biden. It was worth paying smugglers, it was

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worth taking the risk of going through Mexico because your

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odds of being released into the United States were very high.

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Now they're not. So why, you know, why spend the money,

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Why take the risk? I mean it's in fact, we

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had a couple of guys to go down to different

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parts of the border last week and there were parts

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of the border where there were days where there were

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zero got aways, zero attempts to cross, you know, particular

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sections of the border.

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Speaker 1: Zero.

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Speaker 5: It's not clear that's ever happened, at least not in

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the twenty first or twentieth century. So it's a huge change,

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There's just no question about it. And it's you know,

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elections of consequences. Market's Steve Hayward.

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Speaker 2: Actually, James, I'm in Dallas today, I'm on the move

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as always, So Mark, I actually want to do it,

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say congratulations, this is your moment. You've been toiling away

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on this issue for as long as I can remember,

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and I'm sure all kinds of frustrations over the years

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with both parties, but especially the last administration. One question

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just for information, because I do tend to leave this

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to you and don't chase the numbers myself. How has

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the composition of illegal immigration changed over the last ten

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twenty years. I mean years ago it used to be

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we thought, anyway Mexicans. Because in the last few years

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it's been people from all over the world right who

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managed to get themselves first to Central America and the

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Darien Gap and then caravan up to the US. I

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was always amazed by the way that the media wasn't

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more curious as to what that was all about and

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who was organizing and paying for that, because that did

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not happen spontaneously. But anyway, I mean, what is the

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composition and how has it changed over the years, and

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what should we learn from that?

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Speaker 5: I mean, the stock of illegal aliens here are still

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mostly Mexican, just because a lot of them came a

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long time ago. But the new illegal flow is actually

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less than half Mexican. There's still some Mexican illegal immigrants coming,

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still a significant number, but you know, there's no it's

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just not that many people left in rural Mexico. The

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transition from the countryside to the city has now they've

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gone through that. Now half of those people came to

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our cities but the fact is that transition is done,

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and so the Central Americans obviously made up most of

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the flow at one point, and it's diversified beyond that.

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Now we've got South Americans, Caribbeans, and we have increasing

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numbers of people, or we did under Biden coming from

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what they call extra continentals, you name it, they were

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coming from there. I mean, one of our guys went

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down to various parts of Central America over the past

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few years. He was running into people from Tajikistan and

437
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Eritrea and you name it, large numbers of people from

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China and India, just because there's a lot of people there.

439
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But yeah, they're coming from all over in a way

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that really wasn't the case before.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean the reason I thought to ask that

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is I recall, gosh, thirty years ago now around the

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time of Prop one eighty seven in California, some economists.

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Speaker 5: At Stanford forty years almost right time, man, Yeah, feel yesterday.

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Speaker 2: I remember some economists that I think at Stanford maybe

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at Hoover saying as Mexico economy grows and their people

447
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moved from the rural areas in the cities, Mexican illegal

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immigration will will will diminish thought. Well, maybe that's happened,

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and that's why I asked that question. The second one is,

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as I say, in general, you must be looking with

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some satisfaction at an administration determined to do something about this.

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So give us, you know what we're at day sixty,

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Give us a balance sheet. What do you think that

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Trump people are doing well? What do you think they

455
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should do better or differently?

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean, if you ever have a problem like this,

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the first thing is you turn off the faucet before

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you start mopping up the floor, and they've done that

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very well. At the border, I mean, that's just the

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border crisis is over. It doesn't mean no one that

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was ever going to cross illegally, but the border crisis

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is over. The jobs that are now ahead of them,

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and it's not so much that they've fallen down on

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the job. It's just sort of like the next steps

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is and this is something people don't think about. New

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illegal immigration is now going to be mainly visa overstairs,

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and so dealing with that issue of people coming in

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legally and then just never leaving is something that one

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administration after another has never really grappled with. These guys

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are going to have to and then the people who

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are here illegally. Can you unwind you know, eight to well,

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probably more like nine, ten eleven million illegal immigrants that

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the Biden people let in. I don't think they're going

474
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,559
to be able to unwind all of it, but the

475
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,799
point is unwind as much as you can. And this

476
00:23:13,839 --> 00:23:16,440
is where the challenge is going to be. Not just

477
00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:20,319
looking for the rapists and murderers, because you know they're bad,

478
00:23:20,759 --> 00:23:23,119
every one of them should go. But most illegal immigrants

479
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,240
are just working stiffs. They're not rapists and murderers. That's

480
00:23:26,279 --> 00:23:29,279
why what they need. Work site enforcement has to be

481
00:23:29,319 --> 00:23:33,799
stepped up significantly, and part of that needs to be universal.

482
00:23:33,839 --> 00:23:35,759
Everify the online systems.

483
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:36,640
Speaker 1: When you hire.

484
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 5: Somebody, you actually check whether they're telling you the truth

485
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,920
about who they are and what their Social Security number is.

486
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,680
Those are the jobs ahead of them. It's not that

487
00:23:44,759 --> 00:23:47,279
they have fallen down on the job because they just started,

488
00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:49,240
but those are the things that they're now going to

489
00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:50,319
have to grapple with.

490
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,839
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm really glad you mentioned the visa overstairs, because

491
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,079
one of the terms that's driven me nuts for years

492
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,000
now is no, no, we can't call them illegal immigrants,

493
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,359
they're undocumented it and I always raise my hand and say,

494
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,720
wait a minute. Many of them have documents. They're in

495
00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:07,839
violation of those documents. That's called illegal. Okay, let me

496
00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:09,480
shift gears for a minutes, because I know Rob wants

497
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,559
to get in with some more general questions. I want

498
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,079
to take us overseas for a minute. And I don't

499
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,480
know how closely you follow the immigration controversies in Europe,

500
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,799
but it seems to me they're behind us. But I

501
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,720
just read the headlines and I see that. I think,

502
00:24:22,839 --> 00:24:26,519
is it right that Sweden last year had net out

503
00:24:26,759 --> 00:24:30,960
migratory outflow. You see various countries starting to realize, boy,

504
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,440
we've made a big mistake. We have we can't assimilate

505
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,319
all these all the people we've let in. Some of

506
00:24:37,319 --> 00:24:41,559
these cultures are actively hostile, whereas you know, I mean

507
00:24:41,839 --> 00:24:43,920
Mexican immigrants. They may not speak English, but they're kind

508
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,039
of from a Christian or American, you know, American continental culture.

509
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:48,799
So we have it a little bit better off than

510
00:24:49,079 --> 00:24:52,839
than Europeans do. But are you involved at all or

511
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,839
following in Europe? And what do you how do you

512
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,599
expect that story is going to unfold? Is it going

513
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:57,319
to follow ours.

514
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I always tell Europeans, look, we have

515
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,799
real problems in the United States, but holy moly, I'd

516
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,039
rather have our problems than your problems. Yeah, we actually

517
00:25:06,039 --> 00:25:08,720
have a network of restrictionist think tanks. We've got one

518
00:25:08,759 --> 00:25:13,480
in Paris, one in Jerusalem, one in Budapest. And yeah,

519
00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:16,400
so we do follow it. And the interesting thing is

520
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,160
the one country in Europe, well, yeah, the one Western

521
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,039
European country that does not have a kind of so

522
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,119
called far right whatever however you wanted to find that

523
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,039
movement is Denmark because the left of center government there

524
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,880
is actually restrictionist. So, in other words, they co opted

525
00:25:35,319 --> 00:25:38,599
the issue that the and look, I'm a right winger.

526
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,640
I mean I'm not capolic, but I'm saying, you know,

527
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,880
they don't have They've taken it with oxygen out of

528
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,720
the room for those guys. And you would think that,

529
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,720
you know, the British and the French and the Germans

530
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,079
would understand, and they just they just don't seem to yet.

531
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,839
And I got to say, if you're Victor Orbon, you're saying,

532
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,039
fellas I told you so, hey, go listen to me,

533
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,240
and you didn't, I think how much just.

534
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,319
Speaker 1: A concrease of weird alphabets that they seem to get

535
00:26:04,319 --> 00:26:04,599
it right.

536
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 2: You must have seen that New York Times story that

537
00:26:06,799 --> 00:26:10,480
noted the Denmark experience and saying, huh, maybe Democrats should

538
00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:12,519
take a look at that anyway, Sorry, Rob, go ahead.

539
00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:14,519
Speaker 1: I was to say, you know, Mark was going to

540
00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:18,640
get on here with his socialist Scandinavian axe to grind

541
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,599
you love Denmark so much. I got to quit some

542
00:26:23,599 --> 00:26:25,160
over a general question because it just, I mean, it

543
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,400
seems to I mean, although it has been exhausting and

544
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,319
it feels like it's been ninety thousand years. Trump has

545
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:37,319
only been president for two months, right, right? How does that?

546
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,359
How does it work? Just in terms of the hose

547
00:26:40,759 --> 00:26:43,799
where I just get this idea that you know, there's

548
00:26:43,799 --> 00:26:45,519
a it's a you know, it's a garden hose with

549
00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:47,920
a big sprinkler on one end, and that's the north,

550
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,160
that's the border of the Rio Grande, and that people

551
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,279
come up and how where do they hear and how

552
00:26:55,319 --> 00:26:57,920
do they hear and how and what effect does it

553
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,920
have on them when they are or wherever they are

554
00:27:01,039 --> 00:27:03,079
trying to make the decision. I'm really just speaking about

555
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,519
just to just about people in Mexico and Latin American

556
00:27:05,599 --> 00:27:07,680
South America. I don't. I don't the other people. I'm

557
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,640
assuming you're a sort of a longer tail, right, How

558
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,319
do what? What is it that discourages them? Is it

559
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,160
that they see something in that they read the news?

560
00:27:16,279 --> 00:27:19,480
Is it? Is it rumor? How does that work? Well?

561
00:27:19,519 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 5: I mean, look, every single one of these people has

562
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:26,519
a smartphone, so that you know, word travels fast. I mean,

563
00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:29,480
it doesn't. It's not that hard to send out a

564
00:27:29,559 --> 00:27:33,039
message to people that the party is you know, the

565
00:27:33,079 --> 00:27:36,559
party is over. And in fact, when Trump took over,

566
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,799
there were a lot of people kind of in the

567
00:27:38,839 --> 00:27:43,400
pipeline coming up to take advantage of Biden had created these,

568
00:27:43,559 --> 00:27:48,960
frankly i think unlawful programs to corroll people into the

569
00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:52,559
United States, so that, in other words, instead of them

570
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,200
jumping the border illegally, the Biden administration admitted them illegally.

571
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:58,880
And so a lot of these people had appointments and

572
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,119
what have you. But then that was just canceled. They

573
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,839
stopped at all at twelve oh one on inauguration Day,

574
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,680
and you know they're going.

575
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:08,839
Speaker 1: Back if you could, if you could, you know, there's

576
00:28:08,839 --> 00:28:15,000
an unfair question about percentages to what percentage? What percentage

577
00:28:15,039 --> 00:28:20,079
of the problem is solved by boots on the ground,

578
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:27,000
actual border enforcement, the things that physical things happening IRLA

579
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,000
and yeah, walls, And to what extent is it? Can

580
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:34,640
you leverage the smartphones and the rumors and the fact that, like,

581
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,960
if I'm in some village somewhere and I'm not going

582
00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:39,119
to take a chance to come all the way to

583
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,640
the warder and not get in, and I'm not going

584
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,559
to give them some coyote five thousand dollars of my

585
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,519
hard earned money because he thinks he can. Maybe what

586
00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:49,039
I'm hearing is that I'm not going to get in.

587
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,000
To what extent are you does that have an effect?

588
00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:54,039
Just the fact that the federal government has made a

589
00:28:54,079 --> 00:28:59,440
credible argument no more, and is that going to step

590
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,119
on the hose? Now, what percentage of that is going

591
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:02,720
to stop the flow?

592
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,759
Speaker 5: I can't come up with a percentage, but you can't

593
00:29:04,759 --> 00:29:08,960
have one without. They're both necessary and they're but neither

594
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:12,359
is sufficient. Because if you just tell people, Okay, you're

595
00:29:12,359 --> 00:29:14,440
not going to get in, but then if they walk,

596
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,599
they can just wander across the river or wait across

597
00:29:17,599 --> 00:29:20,839
the river. I mean, I've waited across the real grand

598
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,440
into the United States. Myself. It's not that difficult to do.

599
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,599
There are parts of it there's no water at all.

600
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,359
You just walk over a dry riverbed depending on the

601
00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:30,720
time of the year. So you need you need.

602
00:29:31,119 --> 00:29:33,039
Speaker 1: But you did it just as an experiment, right, that's

603
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,640
exactly Okay.

604
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 5: Actually I stopped right. I didn't go into the Mexican

605
00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:39,759
side because there was border patrol agents watching, and I

606
00:29:39,839 --> 00:29:40,319
might have had that.

607
00:29:40,359 --> 00:29:41,319
Speaker 1: You may have made me.

608
00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 5: Go to the port of entry all the way and

609
00:29:43,279 --> 00:29:46,240
across anyway. But the fact is you need to have that.

610
00:29:46,799 --> 00:29:48,720
But on its own it's not going to do it.

611
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,039
There is this idea as well, we just build a

612
00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:53,079
wall tall enough and to moat deep enough and all

613
00:29:53,079 --> 00:29:55,440
the rest of it, and it'll all work. No, you

614
00:29:55,519 --> 00:29:56,759
need to have all of it. You need to have

615
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,960
enforcement outside the country where the state Department makes it

616
00:30:01,039 --> 00:30:02,680
tough to get a visa and all of that. You

617
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,160
need to have enforcement at the border, and you need

618
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,200
to have enforcement inside the country too, so that for

619
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,839
those people who do get by, they make it as

620
00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:14,640
difficult as possible to live a normal life here. You

621
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,720
can't get a job, you can't get a bank account,

622
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,119
can't get a driver's license. You need to do all

623
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,559
of that stuff. I can't come up with a percentage.

624
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,920
Let's just say it's thirty three and a third percent each.

625
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: You know it's pretty good though.

626
00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:26,039
Speaker 5: Yeah.

627
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,079
Speaker 1: So my other question was that I remember when all

628
00:30:28,079 --> 00:30:30,119
of these arguments are happening, this is the pre Trump

629
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,200
right and the immigration hawks, and you said something like

630
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,519
e verify, they would kind of roll their eyes again.

631
00:30:37,559 --> 00:30:37,799
Speaker 4: No, no, no.

632
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,759
Speaker 1: No, that Jesus you slow down, my friend, has Trump

633
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:47,039
in a way kind of cut the Gordian knot here

634
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:52,720
by being incredibly tough both verbally and also you know,

635
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:58,359
administratively on border crossings, And has that given him, or

636
00:30:58,359 --> 00:31:02,920
given the Trump administration the kind of I don't know,

637
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,160
leverage or credibility among the other folks to say, okay,

638
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,319
now we actually do need everifying, because I can remember.

639
00:31:10,359 --> 00:31:13,720
I'm old enough to remember that when you people talking

640
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,720
about everify were like, you guys are that that's it

641
00:31:16,799 --> 00:31:21,559
sounds like amnesty to me? Is that is that helped politically?

642
00:31:21,599 --> 00:31:23,440
Are we are we really in a different moment or

643
00:31:25,319 --> 00:31:28,599
or is it just a moment? I don't mean.

644
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 5: Look, the point of everify is to keep people from

645
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:37,240
getting jobs. I mean, in a sense, what potentially could

646
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,759
happen the kind of thing you're talking about, where do

647
00:31:39,839 --> 00:31:42,559
you build up credibility so that you can then be

648
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,480
Nixon and going to China kind of thing, you know

649
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,519
what I mean, that's sort of the issue. And we

650
00:31:47,559 --> 00:31:51,240
are just you know, we're not We're nowhere near that.

651
00:31:51,319 --> 00:31:53,279
We're not even at the beginning of the end where

652
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,119
that may be the end of the beginning, you know,

653
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,440
as Churchill said in other words, the kind of thing

654
00:31:58,519 --> 00:32:02,240
where And I look, I'm a squish on amnesty, honestly,

655
00:32:02,279 --> 00:32:03,759
I mean, I'm not as much of a squish as

656
00:32:03,759 --> 00:32:05,400
you are in a lot of things, but I am just.

657
00:32:06,359 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: You know, Rober talking about there no one really is.

658
00:32:10,599 --> 00:32:12,960
So they get close, I get it, I get I

659
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,000
go farther. So it doesn't mean it's no way to win.

660
00:32:15,559 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 5: But but the point is you can't do it until

661
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,039
you've solved the problem. And we haven't solved the problem.

662
00:32:21,119 --> 00:32:24,599
We've just literally we literally just stopped making it worse

663
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,039
and are beginning to solve the problem. So I actually

664
00:32:28,079 --> 00:32:30,039
the way I would kind of game it out in

665
00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:34,640
my head is that in the second jd Vance administration,

666
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,359
after the illegal population cut and shrunk by half or more.

667
00:32:40,759 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: The earth is lava again and a smoking ruin, and.

668
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,839
Speaker 5: We have in place. We have in place the enforcement

669
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:53,240
systems necessary, not just everify, but like a checkout system

670
00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:58,039
for foreign visitors we don't have. It's amazing we've tamed

671
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,000
sanctuary cities. And then is the time for a Nixon

672
00:33:02,039 --> 00:33:05,200
going to China deal. But the deal is not the

673
00:33:05,319 --> 00:33:07,759
deal that they've always talked about, where we promise to

674
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,160
enforce the law tomorrow for a Hamburger amnesty. Today the

675
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:16,359
deal is we amnesty the people who are left, rip

676
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,559
off the band aid, not a lot of bs about

677
00:33:18,599 --> 00:33:21,240
thirteen years of jumping through hoops, just get it over

678
00:33:21,279 --> 00:33:25,759
with in exchange for deep permanent cuts in legal immigration.

679
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,279
Speaker 1: So I guess my question is, like, if you split

680
00:33:28,319 --> 00:33:31,119
it into two groups, right, there's the I mean not

681
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,200
the one is more legal or more illegal than another,

682
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,920
but there are the visa overstayers, And that seems to

683
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,400
me to be that's actually where Europe and all those

684
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,920
lacks European countries seem to be excelling. They are really

685
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,000
really strict about that stuff, and they're really really strict

686
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,119
about where you can work and where you can't work.

687
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,480
That doesn't seem like the hardest problem for us to solve.

688
00:33:55,039 --> 00:33:57,640
The factually seems like the easiest, like low hanging fruit. Right,

689
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,839
it's basically a computer. I mean, it's you know, you know,

690
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,119
and and then some kind of government you know, oversight

691
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,720
on employment and payroll attack, which they already do. Like it.

692
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,880
It doesn't seem like like it should be. I mean,

693
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,079
obviously it's a greater higher scale than say what happens

694
00:34:14,079 --> 00:34:16,840
in France, but it's basically what the French do. You

695
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:18,079
cannot work here?

696
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, yes, we're a bigger country, our rules

697
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,880
are looser, we have a more decentralized system, so it

698
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,239
is harder for us to deal with. But yes, the

699
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,760
key is employment, making it as difficult as possible to

700
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,400
live a normal life here as an illegal alien. And

701
00:34:35,519 --> 00:34:38,119
jobs are number one, but also driver's license and what

702
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:42,400
have you. Look, states are authorized to give driver's licenses

703
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,159
to illegals, they just have to be different from the

704
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:49,159
ones acceptable for federal purposes, you know, getting out your plane,

705
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:54,119
for instance. So are the challenges are are different here,

706
00:34:54,559 --> 00:34:57,199
but and it's not quite you know, Belgium or whatever

707
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,599
is just easier to control even though they don't have

708
00:35:00,639 --> 00:35:03,519
the will to control their own country. We're a bigger place.

709
00:35:03,559 --> 00:35:05,320
It's harder to control. Have you been to the border.

710
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,599
I mean, holy moly, there's no way you can stop

711
00:35:07,639 --> 00:35:11,039
everybody everywhere from coming across. I mean, it's a gigantic thing.

712
00:35:11,119 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: So that's always been the argument about employment control. But

713
00:35:14,679 --> 00:35:21,320
I just mean that the the spicott of airport arrivals, right,

714
00:35:21,519 --> 00:35:24,639
that hose is so much narrower. Yeah, And it just

715
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:29,320
feels to me like that shouldn't be that hard.

716
00:35:29,559 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 5: It shouldn't be because and we have done better since

717
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,079
nine to eleven at the check in part, at screening

718
00:35:36,119 --> 00:35:39,239
people before they get in and knowing who people are.

719
00:35:40,039 --> 00:35:44,199
Really is the checkout part that's the problem, because they've

720
00:35:44,199 --> 00:35:47,400
done some experiments on when you would check people out

721
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,480
when they're leaving. Do you do it at the Jetway?

722
00:35:49,559 --> 00:35:53,719
Do you do it at TSA? It's not in Superbowl problem.

723
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,880
No one has really ever wanted to bother with it.

724
00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:00,440
In fact, Janet Napolitano, who was Obama's first DHS scretary,

725
00:36:00,519 --> 00:36:03,800
actually testified that, yeah, you know, we really don't care.

726
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,000
We're not working on that. Even though Congress has mandated

727
00:36:07,159 --> 00:36:09,559
I don't know nine times now that they come up

728
00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:13,159
with an electronic checkout system for visitors. So yes, it's

729
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,719
not that hard, but you have to have the will

730
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,800
and want time and the money into doing it. And

731
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,079
that's my point to Steven's question, is that that's a

732
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,760
challenge that is lying down the road for this administration.

733
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 3: Let's talk about the deportations which have been very high profile.

734
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,000
Put a bunch of guys on a plane, taking them off,

735
00:36:35,079 --> 00:36:37,719
shackling them, shaving their head, and shoving them in an

736
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,320
Al Salvadoran prison. The effect of this perhaps has been

737
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,960
to concentrate the mind of people who might otherwise have

738
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:47,599
just lulled around the country and thought they wouldn't be

739
00:36:47,639 --> 00:36:50,199
caught or not. Do you think they're just going to

740
00:36:50,199 --> 00:36:53,360
be better about not being caught or is this one

741
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,400
of those things that encourages self deportation on a with

742
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,440
alacrity but the quick.

743
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,559
Speaker 5: Hopefully it will. And but the thing is the president

744
00:37:01,559 --> 00:37:05,239
always is talking about getting you know, gang members, rapists,

745
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,119
criminals out of the country. It's all good, obviously, everybody's

746
00:37:08,119 --> 00:37:11,199
for that, but most illegal aliens are not you know,

747
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,519
raping gang members. And so if you're not a criminal.

748
00:37:15,159 --> 00:37:17,760
You figure, okay, well, you know, I'm okay, I'll just

749
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,280
keep my head down and it's not going to be

750
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,519
a problem. That's my point about why you need work

751
00:37:23,559 --> 00:37:26,159
site enforcement, because if you raid, first of all, you

752
00:37:26,199 --> 00:37:28,639
get much higher numbers because you send five ICE agents

753
00:37:28,679 --> 00:37:31,639
to go after one criminal because it's labor intensive. The

754
00:37:31,679 --> 00:37:34,559
same five ICE agents raid a warehouse or something like that,

755
00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:37,559
you can come up with twenty illegal aliens and most

756
00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:39,239
of them are going to be normal people, I mean

757
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,159
gang members. You'll still find some criminals because gang members

758
00:37:43,199 --> 00:37:46,159
often have day jobs as well, but most of those

759
00:37:46,159 --> 00:37:49,800
people are going to be ordinary folks. That's how you

760
00:37:50,599 --> 00:37:55,280
can get some self deportation going, not if you're just

761
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,280
talking about TDA.

762
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: You know, gang.

763
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 5: Members and rapists and murderers. So that's the challenge that's

764
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:04,199
ahead of them.

765
00:38:04,199 --> 00:38:06,159
Speaker 3: And we're told constantly that if we do do that,

766
00:38:06,639 --> 00:38:08,480
then we're going to suffer a labor shortage. That means

767
00:38:08,559 --> 00:38:10,719
the vegetables and the fruits will rot in the fields,

768
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,559
and that nobody will be able to get anything from

769
00:38:12,559 --> 00:38:14,199
the back of the store because there's nobody back there

770
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,400
to stock it in the first place. It doesn't even

771
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:21,559
particularly compelling argument for unlimited, untrammeled immigration. But is that

772
00:38:21,639 --> 00:38:23,800
the case too. We have a period ahead where we

773
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,719
have to adjust and figure out new ways to do

774
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,239
things because the pool of illegals can be paid under

775
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,599
the table quietly and not enough is going to shrink.

776
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 5: No, I mean on a national scale, that's a ridiculous argument.

777
00:38:38,039 --> 00:38:42,079
There will be particular places, particular companies that will be

778
00:38:42,199 --> 00:38:44,559
I mean, somebody is going to be inconvenience frankly, by

779
00:38:44,599 --> 00:38:48,320
trying to change the way we're doing things. But the idea,

780
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,480
first of all, this is a process. It's not an event.

781
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,800
There was this movie number of years ago, a day

782
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,960
without an immigrant, and everybody wakes up one day and

783
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,679
all the immigrants are gone. I think maybe it was

784
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,920
just in California, and they're joking about people in alleys

785
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,719
with raincoats selling vegetables secretly, you know, under the cable,

786
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,400
all that kind of nonsense. It's that's I mean, it

787
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,559
was a funny movie, but it's not the way things work.

788
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,159
You would have a gradual process of shrinkage of the

789
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:18,280
illegal workforce, and you know, the market would adjust. And

790
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,760
I know that because Uncle Adam Smith told me that's

791
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,559
the way things work. And you know, we've seen that

792
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,800
in all kinds of areas where let's say, you know,

793
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,920
there's fewer people working, you know, available for a bakery

794
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,079
to hire. In Chicago, that happened there was a raid,

795
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:37,480
they got a lot of illegal aliens out. Well, guess what.

796
00:39:38,159 --> 00:39:41,599
They hired locals who were in this case were black

797
00:39:41,679 --> 00:39:44,239
who weren't able to get hired because the workers were

798
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,199
all Mexican. They raised the wages, they passed the net

799
00:39:48,199 --> 00:39:53,519
wider for looking for employees, and they look into new,

800
00:39:54,039 --> 00:39:57,559
less labor intensive ways of doing their work. It's this

801
00:39:57,599 --> 00:40:02,480
isn't rocket science. And so I yes, if eleven million

802
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,400
twelve well actually now it's more like sixteen million illegal

803
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,920
aliens if they disappeared tomorrow, Yeah, absolutely, it would be

804
00:40:09,039 --> 00:40:12,880
enormously disruptive. There's literally no way that's going to happen.

805
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,639
And so it's one of those things that you know,

806
00:40:15,679 --> 00:40:18,719
it's a hypothetical that's irrelevant to even respond to because

807
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:19,920
it can't and won't happen.

808
00:40:20,519 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 3: Mark, thanks for joining us again, and would you please

809
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:23,880
come up with a book or something so we can

810
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:24,800
push it here. Yeah.

811
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 5: I got to come up with a new one. I

812
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,920
have a book from before, but it's too old and

813
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,400
Penguin ran away from it. So maybe when, maybe when

814
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,800
Rob gets ordained, because I outrank him now I'm a deacon,

815
00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:37,039
but if he gets ordained, then.

816
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,760
Speaker 1: I'll be a You're digging to the Armenian Church, so right.

817
00:40:39,679 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 5: Yes, I am, but we're all part of the Holy

818
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,840
Apostolic and you know, right, yeah, you guys have that

819
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:44,599
those great hats.

820
00:40:44,599 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: Though I might be I might be looking at that.

821
00:40:46,119 --> 00:40:48,400
You got better outphabits. I know that's a reason to

822
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,000
do it, but you know it's not not a reason

823
00:40:50,039 --> 00:40:51,039
put it that way exactly.

824
00:40:51,199 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 5: Although I don't have to wear one of those. I'm

825
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:53,159
just a deal.

826
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,679
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you, Deacon Mark, and we look forward to

827
00:40:56,679 --> 00:40:59,079
talking to you again about something that will no doubt

828
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,400
be four front for the next two, three, four five years. Marcu,

829
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,440
Corny and ladies and gentlemen, see you later.

830
00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: Thank you.

831
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 3: Oh it's a pleasure. The Armenian apple. Okay, let me

832
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,519
get this straight. Is there an Armenian Orthodox Church that

833
00:41:12,639 --> 00:41:16,440
is separate from other? Correct me, Rob, No, I don't

834
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:16,679
know much.

835
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,199
Speaker 1: I don't know much about the I mean, I mean

836
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,000
all the Armenian churches I've ever heard of are pretty Orthodox,

837
00:41:23,119 --> 00:41:25,159
but it's a different from the Orthodox Church.

838
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, okay, all right, because I know that, you know,

839
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,760
there's the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, and I think recently, if

840
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,760
I remember correctly, they did some calendar adjustments so that

841
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,840
Easter was not as far off. You know, am I

842
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,639
right there? And I think it the same with with Christmas.

843
00:41:41,679 --> 00:41:43,239
I think they adjusted it so that it's a little

844
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,000
closer to the to the Western traditions because you know,

845
00:41:46,039 --> 00:41:47,840
all the Yukes I know would say Merry Christmas and

846
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,039
then they'd have their own like fourteen fifteen days later.

847
00:41:50,199 --> 00:41:51,440
Same thing with yeah.

848
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

849
00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:56,760
Speaker 1: The Easter. Orthodox Easter, though, is actually one of the

850
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:04,199
great chaotic scenes in world religious sort of celebration. You know,

851
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,320
they are now on the show like scenes from Devali

852
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,400
or something, or the water festival in Vietnam or even

853
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,199
you know, parts of Ramadan. I e to the end

854
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,400
of Ramadan. And I mean it looks crazy, but if

855
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,920
you've never seen you go on YouTube the Orthodox Easter

856
00:42:19,039 --> 00:42:22,559
in Jerusalem in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher that

857
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:27,400
the banana's quality of that is so incredibly inspiring. Crazy.

858
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,960
It's like this fire everywhere. The idea that nobody dies,

859
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:36,880
nobody gets immolated multiple times in that celebration is just

860
00:42:37,079 --> 00:42:39,239
crazy to me, and somehow it all works.

861
00:42:39,639 --> 00:42:43,559
Speaker 3: Well, you mentioned these other, these other ceremonies and celebrations

862
00:42:43,559 --> 00:42:46,039
in other religions around the globe, you know, roughly the

863
00:42:46,039 --> 00:42:48,480
same time. Why do you think that is? I mean,

864
00:42:48,599 --> 00:42:50,079
you go back to Roman times and you will find

865
00:42:50,079 --> 00:42:54,119
that there's particular, you know, celebrations around at that particular time.

866
00:42:55,440 --> 00:43:00,199
Speaker 1: What do you mean you mean spring or spring? Yes, spring, well,

867
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:04,239
I mean it's a there are I mean, first of all,

868
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,079
everybody has a different kind of spring, right, so if

869
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:08,760
you're in the Southern hemisphere, Global South, your spring is

870
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,960
different from our spring. It's a different month. So it

871
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,400
doesn't really work in the same time of year. But

872
00:43:18,519 --> 00:43:24,880
we as Christians believe that the year, the Church year,

873
00:43:25,039 --> 00:43:35,559
is both symbolic and meaningful, and that it coincides with equinoxes.

874
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,880
Right that aren't necessarily on the twenty fifth of December

875
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,320
or the or the twenty first of March, whenever the

876
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,559
spring one is. But they're meaningful. I mean there's a

877
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,840
the actual day, specific days, sick days of Good Friday

878
00:43:53,679 --> 00:43:58,039
and Easter Sunday are they're not consistent in the Gospels, right,

879
00:43:58,400 --> 00:43:59,920
but you know how you read it? Good Friday could

880
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:00,639
be Thursday.

881
00:44:01,519 --> 00:44:03,559
Speaker 3: I think it's in John well what but but it

882
00:44:03,599 --> 00:44:05,760
all appears it's all within the same time. It's all

883
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,920
these equinoxes, it's all the shifts. There are things globally experienced.

884
00:44:10,079 --> 00:44:14,400
You know, spring for example, it's got massive temperature swings

885
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,199
at least up here, and that can leave you waking

886
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:16,920
up with the sweats.

887
00:44:17,199 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 2: I knew it.

888
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:18,519
Speaker 1: I knew it.

889
00:44:18,679 --> 00:44:21,639
Speaker 6: I was just I was searching for this and I

890
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:26,159
was looking through that one like going with it, strolling

891
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,840
me and I is this an episode of the Prisoner

892
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,280
where we don't know who is Dan?

893
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:34,199
Speaker 1: Who's to dance?

894
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,519
Speaker 3: I threw that five minutes ago, and I've been.

895
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: Just man, sinker. Good for you. I knew what was

896
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,159
going on, but I kind of was looking at you, Steve,

897
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:43,960
like what Steve's face is there?

898
00:44:45,679 --> 00:44:48,119
Speaker 3: Anyway, if I may reset and tell you about cozy Earth,

899
00:44:48,159 --> 00:44:50,480
because I really want to, because it is a spring

900
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,320
and it's getting warmer here and you know, but it

901
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,760
could be cold one day and it yeah, I mean

902
00:44:55,119 --> 00:44:58,599
temperature swings. Yeah, you don't want to have an uncomfortable

903
00:44:58,679 --> 00:44:59,719
night and that's why you want to have the most

904
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905
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906
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907
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908
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909
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910
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911
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912
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913
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914
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916
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917
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918
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921
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935
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Before we go here, we've got a few minutes left

936
00:46:37,519 --> 00:46:43,199
to discuss amongst yourselves. Let's see, Oh war, that's right,

937
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,400
one of the old hoothis, didn't we How is that

938
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,079
ongoing at the moment? Don't think so? Was the point made?

939
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:54,199
Doesn't seem so because they're still saber rattling. And but

940
00:46:54,599 --> 00:46:56,840
there's a space two or three days ago where people

941
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:01,119
were convinced that something big was going to happened to Iran,

942
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,960
and there was the usual contingent of people who say, no, sorry,

943
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,960
nothing ever happens. And when it comes to Iran, what

944
00:47:08,039 --> 00:47:08,639
do you guys think?

945
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,599
Speaker 2: Well, Okay, this hoothy business is tiresome. At this point,

946
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,920
remember that the Biden administration came in took the Hoothies

947
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,639
off the terror sponsored list of our State Department because

948
00:47:19,679 --> 00:47:21,079
we thought if we were nice to them, maybe they

949
00:47:21,159 --> 00:47:21,760
behaved better.

950
00:47:22,039 --> 00:47:22,599
Speaker 1: They didn't.

951
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,679
Speaker 2: Biden escalated a little, but it seemed like Vietnam style.

952
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,760
Let's shoot a few rockets at them and a couple

953
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,079
of bombs and maybe they'll behave better. And they didn't.

954
00:47:32,119 --> 00:47:35,440
Israel has struck some hard blows against them several times

955
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,800
now following rocket attacks, and now Trump seems to be

956
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,679
saying we've had it with the disruption of shipping there

957
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,519
around the Red Sea. So and then supposedly people say,

958
00:47:45,679 --> 00:47:48,320
what Trump is really doing is signaling the Iranians, because

959
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:54,239
Trumps keeps saying the Huthians, the Cuthians, right Uthians, and

960
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,679
the blowfish or the blow of Heart's eye anyway, that

961
00:47:57,199 --> 00:48:00,840
they're the cat's paw for Iran. And look, James, I

962
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:02,519
do think that if there's an attack on it run.

963
00:48:02,559 --> 00:48:04,159
It's going to come out of the blue. And whether

964
00:48:04,199 --> 00:48:06,800
it's going to be Israel or Israel and US or

965
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:08,840
Israel with our help, who knows. But I think that

966
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,559
will be at a time of hour in Israel's choosing

967
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,239
because left out of course, and I know you know

968
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,599
about it is the Israel has turned the guzz of

969
00:48:16,639 --> 00:48:18,800
war back on in a big way in the last

970
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:20,320
seventy two hours or so.

971
00:48:21,599 --> 00:48:23,039
Speaker 3: Did they turn it back on or do they just

972
00:48:23,119 --> 00:48:27,639
resume the I mean, if Gaza had released all the hostage,

973
00:48:27,639 --> 00:48:30,760
if the if the Hamas had released everybody, do you

974
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,960
think that would be resumption of the hostilities or do

975
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,840
you think this is a reaction to Hamas not doing.

976
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 2: Oh well, I think it's the latter, I think. But

977
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,480
they've sent troops. Ground troops are back in Gaza. It's

978
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,840
not just air strikes. So I think it's it's on again.

979
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,320
And yeah, I mean, there was some possibility that if

980
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,440
the Hamas had released all the hostages, that we might

981
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,519
have made a ceasefire stick and postponed it for another day.

982
00:48:54,639 --> 00:48:59,199
That's unpopular in Israel, but Hamas is so determined to

983
00:48:59,199 --> 00:49:01,519
go down with all fours flying and all people dying,

984
00:49:01,599 --> 00:49:03,920
that Israel had no choice but to start it up again.

985
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I also figure that they know more now. I

986
00:49:06,039 --> 00:49:08,559
mean there's every single one of those hostages that's given

987
00:49:08,559 --> 00:49:11,199
them intelligence, and they have a better map of Gaza

988
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,239
now and they have a better understanding where to look

989
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,480
for hostages. So they may be going in to perform

990
00:49:16,599 --> 00:49:19,719
you know, some percentage of rescues, and which would be

991
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:23,360
a disastrous for Hamas, right, I mean, like you you

992
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,920
have you every every rescued hostage is one chip you

993
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:31,800
can't bargain with. And that is clearly, that's clearly the

994
00:49:32,199 --> 00:49:36,719
the the Israelis preferred position, which is understandable. The strangest

995
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,880
thing here is that I feel like we we we

996
00:49:41,039 --> 00:49:44,639
keep getting into this strange trap as Americans, sort of

997
00:49:44,679 --> 00:49:48,519
American policymakers for foreign policymakers, where we think that the

998
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,639
people who are orchestrating the terrorism, you know, Hamas or

999
00:49:52,679 --> 00:49:57,400
Hoodies or whoever, or Iran, they what they have an

1000
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:03,199
agenda of policy, positions have goals, they need to be addressed,

1001
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,039
and the problem with that is that they don't when

1002
00:50:07,079 --> 00:50:08,880
the reason the Whodi's attacked is because we haven't been

1003
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:10,719
paying attention to them for a while, and they want

1004
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,400
some attention. And it's not just the childish attention kind

1005
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:18,360
is that those those organizations only work if their own

1006
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,320
population is subdued and cheering for them, so they need

1007
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,679
to be attacked. I mean, Hamas doesn't see this disaster

1008
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,880
in Gaza as a disaster for Hamas. It's exactly what

1009
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,719
they want. They don't care that all these Gosins are dead.

1010
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,960
They really don't care. It wasn't the point that those

1011
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,280
have always been pawms that you sacrificed for a larger point,

1012
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:45,639
which is power. So when we when we treat them

1013
00:50:45,679 --> 00:50:48,159
as we say them, treat them with respect, or when

1014
00:50:48,159 --> 00:50:50,960
we try a different diplomatic attack on all of these groups,

1015
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,719
we actually end up encouraging them to be more and

1016
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:59,280
more incendiary. And then the only alternative really is to

1017
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,639
attack them with They also makes them stronger, but that

1018
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,599
is or makes them feel stronger, but that is That's

1019
00:51:04,639 --> 00:51:06,840
been the Israeli position all along, is that you have

1020
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:11,840
to you have to keep going. You know, the blood,

1021
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,679
the cold blood at Israeli position is Hamas and its

1022
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,440
members must be destroyed, All of them must be destroyed.

1023
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,039
And we don't like to say that. It just doesn't

1024
00:51:23,039 --> 00:51:28,000
sound right, but their argument, and you talk to Israeli politicians,

1025
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,559
really policymakers, and they're almost always go to a kind

1026
00:51:31,559 --> 00:51:37,440
of a public health metaphor, a viral metaphor. The virus

1027
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:41,519
has to be destroyed. And unfortunately that's us people, and

1028
00:51:41,559 --> 00:51:43,559
it's horrible to hear, it's horrible to think. It's a

1029
00:51:43,639 --> 00:51:45,960
horrible position to be in. But the people that you're

1030
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,400
dealing with aren't operating under any other set of priorities.

1031
00:51:50,599 --> 00:51:53,920
So you know, if you're playing a game and the

1032
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,599
person you're playing with is playing by different rules, guess what,

1033
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:58,880
you're playing their game because they're playing by different rules.

1034
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:04,079
That's how that works. And there's no there's no effort

1035
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,599
on the yet I don't know, or no public effort

1036
00:52:06,639 --> 00:52:11,280
on the part of Hamas's paymasters to change that.

1037
00:52:11,559 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1038
00:52:12,159 --> 00:52:13,280
Speaker 1: Sorry, it's not very uplifting.

1039
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:15,119
Speaker 3: And Steve and you are.

1040
00:52:15,199 --> 00:52:16,519
Speaker 2: Well sorry, Well, I don't know if we want to

1041
00:52:16,519 --> 00:52:18,719
continue on this or not. James, I'll just chime in

1042
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,840
this way. You know, the mistake that the American foreign

1043
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,760
policy makers have been making for decades with with just

1044
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,960
about everybody is we think that everybody is going to

1045
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,440
be rational in more or less the same way we are,

1046
00:52:31,079 --> 00:52:33,159
and I think we're very slow to realize that while

1047
00:52:33,159 --> 00:52:35,960
people can make rational calculations in the ordinary sense, there's

1048
00:52:36,039 --> 00:52:39,800
often much deeper currents of thinking. So I could go

1049
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:41,800
back and give you examples from the Middle East for years.

1050
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,599
But what's on my mind right now is you may

1051
00:52:44,639 --> 00:52:46,559
have caught the story a week or so ago where

1052
00:52:46,599 --> 00:52:50,159
Trump sent some new guy with no experience in foreign

1053
00:52:50,159 --> 00:52:54,360
policy and negotiation to meet with Hamas in Qatar, and

1054
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,639
he said publicly, gosh, they turned out to be really

1055
00:52:56,719 --> 00:53:00,159
nice guys, really foolish, stupid things, and in fact that

1056
00:53:00,199 --> 00:53:02,199
Trump people have since pulled this guy back because he

1057
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,679
was an embarrassment. But you know, I can give you

1058
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,119
lots of examples where people in the Middle East to

1059
00:53:07,199 --> 00:53:10,760
Hamas Amas thought, by the way October sixth, that hes

1060
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:12,440
blow is going to come in from the north, the

1061
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:13,960
West Bank would rise up, and they were going to

1062
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:15,320
crush Israel at a stroke.

1063
00:53:15,639 --> 00:53:18,119
Speaker 1: That's sort of their view of how the world would work,

1064
00:53:18,199 --> 00:53:18,840
or should work.

1065
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:22,760
Speaker 2: I could easily imagine some Hamas people thinking, ah, Trump

1066
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,400
secretly wants to put distance between himself and Israel. We're

1067
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,159
not on the ropes, after all. All we need to

1068
00:53:28,199 --> 00:53:30,119
do is hold out and we're going to win. Or

1069
00:53:31,159 --> 00:53:33,199
and as I say, this is the sort of a

1070
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:38,519
deep conspiratorial thinking, or deep sort of perverse contrarian thinking

1071
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,039
that's very deeply embedded in a lot of these really

1072
00:53:42,079 --> 00:53:44,719
cult like groups of people like Hamas and so forth.

1073
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:50,199
So and by the way, gee, Trump is't He's easily

1074
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,760
capable of confusing people on purpose or quite by accident,

1075
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,280
or both. Right, So I got to think that the

1076
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,679
Hamas people are they say, I mean, we think, and

1077
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,039
I think it's right that Trump is very pro Israel,

1078
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:03,840
very supportive of net and Yahoo. But I could easily

1079
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:09,360
imagine certain certain precincts of the radical air of mind thinking, no,

1080
00:54:09,559 --> 00:54:12,199
there's something else going on here, and it's all very

1081
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,079
strange and byzantine.

1082
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, yes, it makes me think that if you

1083
00:54:19,119 --> 00:54:21,880
stuck a Queers for Palestine bumper sticker in the back

1084
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,639
of a tesla, right when I make some people's heads,

1085
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,280
smoke would come from their collar like a computer that

1086
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,920
Kirk could arg get into an a logical position. I mean,

1087
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:33,400
this is one of the more interesting developments in the

1088
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,679
last week is the is the transfer of hatred of

1089
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,719
everything Doge related and Musk related onto the vehicles of

1090
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,840
the car company. So that now what used to be

1091
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,960
a sign a virtue that I care about the earth,

1092
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,280
I am not consuming the awful hydrocarbons. Look at me,

1093
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,599
I'm electric, is now proof that you somehow are that

1094
00:54:51,679 --> 00:54:54,360
you are, if not a Nazi sympathizer or tall, an

1095
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:59,519
actual Nazi yourself. And when you have these coordinated protests apparently,

1096
00:54:59,599 --> 00:55:02,639
I I forget what days is it, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

1097
00:55:02,639 --> 00:55:04,559
Everyone is going to rise up and go to the

1098
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:08,159
deal to They're going to go protest at the car dealership,

1099
00:55:08,199 --> 00:55:10,880
which I find an odd thing. Now I can imagine

1100
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:12,719
if this was Ford in the nineteen twenties and people

1101
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,679
were concerned about some of his policies in regards to

1102
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:16,679
the Holy Land.

1103
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:22,559
Speaker 2: You know, but this is ridiculous, Well, James, I mean,

1104
00:55:22,599 --> 00:55:26,400
this just shows you Trump's genius. Trump has accomplished one

1105
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,199
thing that Republicans have tried without success for sixty years,

1106
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,599
and that's get Democrats to hate the Kennedys, or at

1107
00:55:31,679 --> 00:55:34,880
least one Kennedy right. And it's now managed to get

1108
00:55:35,199 --> 00:55:36,840
many people on the left to hate and get rid

1109
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,400
of their electric cars. Was that Senator Mark Kelly dumped

1110
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:41,880
his test life and bought a Chevrolet Suburban?

1111
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I love it.

1112
00:55:45,079 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 3: I was reading we had there was apparently there was

1113
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,679
a Tesla charge at charging station around Fargo or something

1114
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,599
that was vandalized, and the people on the reddit were saying, yeah,

1115
00:55:53,599 --> 00:55:55,199
it's really weird, man. I mean a couple of years ago,

1116
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,760
as all the rednecks who were vanalyzing the EV charging

1117
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,880
station and wait a minute, did I miss that part? Yeah,

1118
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:02,639
I don't think they cared one bit of the other.

1119
00:56:02,679 --> 00:56:05,800
They laughed at them. Laughterism vandalism, unless, of course it's

1120
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:07,360
language in case by violence.

1121
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: But I don't.

1122
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 3: I can't know. I think the people who were probably

1123
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,679
chopping it up were going for the copper. And I

1124
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,280
don't see the good old boy sitting around saying, well,

1125
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,760
we're done, We're done being sarcastic about bud Light. Why

1126
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,719
don't we go vandalize a test list. I just don't

1127
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,280
see it, No, I don't. What I do see is

1128
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,000
that all of you are going to go to Apple

1129
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:31,119
Podcasts didn't give us five reviews. What I do see

1130
00:56:31,199 --> 00:56:33,440
is that you're going to go to ricochet dot com

1131
00:56:33,679 --> 00:56:36,239
and click on the member feed. Oh you can't. Sorry,

1132
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,000
that's right, you can't because you're not a member. But

1133
00:56:38,079 --> 00:56:40,679
if for just you know coins, for just a pittance,

1134
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:42,559
you can find out exactly what you've been missing all

1135
00:56:42,559 --> 00:56:47,159
these years, and the same civil center rights something else

1136
00:56:47,159 --> 00:56:49,960
with a sibilants know home on the internet. That's ricochet

1137
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:50,360
dot com.

1138
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 1: You can read the.

1139
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 3: Main page and listen to the podcast all you like,

1140
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,000
but you join and there's lots of stuff, including the

1141
00:56:55,119 --> 00:56:56,320
right to comment.

1142
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:57,119
Speaker 1: That's right.

1143
00:56:57,159 --> 00:56:59,519
Speaker 3: As Rob has said for seven hundred and thirty two

1144
00:56:59,679 --> 00:57:02,480
podcas asked, you get skin in the game, and that

1145
00:57:02,599 --> 00:57:06,320
means a place where people are invested in the community, working,

1146
00:57:06,519 --> 00:57:08,199
and that's why it's a great place exactly.

1147
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:08,840
Speaker 2: So.

1148
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 3: Also cozy Earth for the sheets. You want to regulate

1149
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,480
your temperature and make for a nice spring and bamboo

1150
00:57:14,599 --> 00:57:16,719
hr which will help you with the difficult parts of

1151
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:18,360
running a business. You really don't want to think about

1152
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:20,920
what you got to do anyway, Stephen, thank you, Rob,

1153
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:24,800
always a pleasure yourself. Give regards to everybody back in

1154
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,079
the you know, in the monastery, in the cloisters, and

1155
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:32,079
we'll see everybody. We'll see everybody in the comments at

1156
00:57:32,119 --> 00:57:39,360
Ricochet for point. Oh good aye, thanks Fellows, Ricochet, Yeah,

1157
00:57:41,199 --> 00:57:42,159
Join the conversation.