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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I always like to say, let's get three or

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<v Speaker 1>four metrics that we can really hone in on, versus

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<v Speaker 1>having twelve to fourteen, and most of them go missing

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<v Speaker 1>because nobody's paying attention to twelve to fourteen different metrics.

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<v Speaker 2>You're listening to the Audible Ready Podcast, the show that

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<v Speaker 2>helps you and your teams sell more faster. We'll feature

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<v Speaker 2>sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create

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<v Speaker 2>a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth.

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<v Speaker 2>Presented by the team at Force Management, a leader in

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<v Speaker 2>B to B sales effectiveness. Let's get started.

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<v Speaker 3>Welcome to the Audible Ready Sales Podcast. I'm Rachel Klett Miller.

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<v Speaker 3>Today we are going to talk about one of our

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<v Speaker 3>most popular topics, metrics, and I think it's a topic

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<v Speaker 3>that's popular because it tends to trip a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>reps up even when you're trying to do everything you

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<v Speaker 3>can to follow a sales methodology or like command of

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<v Speaker 3>the message like medic. Metrics is an important part of

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<v Speaker 3>both of those. So today John Boney is going to

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<v Speaker 3>talk to us about the topic. Hi.

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<v Speaker 1>John, Hey, Rachel, good to be here with you again.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks for having me, Yes, thank you for being here. John,

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<v Speaker 3>I know you answer metrics questions a lot from the

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<v Speaker 3>reps that we train. Let's just start talking about the

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<v Speaker 3>two types of metrics and what's important to who.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah really good. When we think about metrics, there's really

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<v Speaker 1>two types. There's your technical metrics and these are metrics

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<v Speaker 1>that are focused on performance, reliability, efficiency of a product

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<v Speaker 1>or service. The crucial for technical buyers, we need to

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<v Speaker 1>ensure that the solution of metrics meets a specific technical requirement.

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<v Speaker 1>It usually integrates well with other systems. So they're looking

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<v Speaker 1>for these technical metrics that are really important to us,

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<v Speaker 1>and the other metrics and this is the area where

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<v Speaker 1>I see Rachel where there's usually more of a struggle.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the business metrics. And these metrics usually appeal to

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<v Speaker 1>the executives or the economic buyer and decision makers who

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<v Speaker 1>are concerned with the overall impact of the business, such

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<v Speaker 1>as return on investment, cost saving, strategic alignment. They help

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<v Speaker 1>in the understanding of how the solution contributes to a

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<v Speaker 1>broader business goal. Right, some of the strategic goals that

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<v Speaker 1>organizations have that we're trying to meet, and if we

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<v Speaker 1>can tie ourselves to that, then we're associating ourselves our

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<v Speaker 1>metrics with with what those business metrics need to be,

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<v Speaker 1>and those are really the two key areas and one differentiator.

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<v Speaker 1>I do want to mention you had mentioned in the

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<v Speaker 1>introduction between medic and command of the message and how

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<v Speaker 1>metrics ties into both of those, And oftentimes there's confusion

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<v Speaker 1>around the metrics and medic which is going to be

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<v Speaker 1>more tied towards that economic buyer, and the metrics and

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<v Speaker 1>command of the message, which are the metrics that are

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<v Speaker 1>going to help us achieve the required capabilities. So there's

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<v Speaker 1>a slight difference that's there, and I think that creates

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of the confusion, But we're here to

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<v Speaker 1>solve that today and try to get people clear on

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<v Speaker 1>how to differentiate between the two.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Absolutely absolutely, because to your point, it's almost like

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<v Speaker 3>when you're trying to craft the deal right, you want

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<v Speaker 3>to make sure you have the collective yes from your

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<v Speaker 3>technical buyers, your economic buyers, your implementation people, and then

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<v Speaker 3>with metrics you also have to have a broad story

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<v Speaker 3>as it relates to the metrics and be tied to

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<v Speaker 3>those high level business issues. She talked a little bit

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<v Speaker 3>about the challenge that reps have, but do you think

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<v Speaker 3>sometimes getting to those higher level metrics is that they're

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<v Speaker 3>just not reaching enough, or the business issues are like

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<v Speaker 3>drive efficiency and they don't know how to measure that specifically,

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<v Speaker 3>like what are your reasons there?

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's a couple things as to why reps

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<v Speaker 1>will struggle with these things, and some of it is

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<v Speaker 1>the reach, like who they're talking to. Oftentimes we're talking

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<v Speaker 1>to people who are, as we like to say, masquerating

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<v Speaker 1>is that economic buyer, but they're truly a technical buyer,

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<v Speaker 1>and so we don't know what some of those strategic

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<v Speaker 1>shoes are. And these metrics can be complex, they can

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<v Speaker 1>be difficult to interpret when you're not asking the right questions.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think some of the other things RACHEL that

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<v Speaker 1>people get caught up on is every REP that we

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<v Speaker 1>work with and every REP in the globe right they've

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<v Speaker 1>all got pressure to meet specific goals and specific targets,

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<v Speaker 1>which can cause stress and cause them to skip steps.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is one of the ones that get skipped

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<v Speaker 1>is understanding what are those metrics beyond technical. I think

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<v Speaker 1>most of the reps that we work with do a

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<v Speaker 1>nice job of understanding technically, what are the metrics we

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<v Speaker 1>need to be able to solve for but from a

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<v Speaker 1>business perspective, again to your point, the reach in talking

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<v Speaker 1>to those true economic buyers, understanding the strategic initiatives that

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<v Speaker 1>an organization has. And I'll give you an example. I

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<v Speaker 1>was working with a client last week and it was

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<v Speaker 1>a client that was based in EMEA, and we were

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<v Speaker 1>talking about metrics, this exact topic, and in this conversation,

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<v Speaker 1>I just happened to pull up the company that we

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<v Speaker 1>were dealing with on their opportunity review. I pulled up

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<v Speaker 1>their website and listed right there on their website where

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<v Speaker 1>seven strategic priorities. And in those seven strategic priorities, two

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<v Speaker 1>of them were tied to customer satisfaction and enhancement in

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<v Speaker 1>the technologies in order to achieve their goals. Now, this

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<v Speaker 1>company that we were working with, they're kind of in

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<v Speaker 1>the security space, something we deal with a lot, and

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<v Speaker 1>associating how their solution was going to help resolve some

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<v Speaker 1>of those strategic initiatives that they have to ensure that

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<v Speaker 1>customers were getting the experience that they were looking for,

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<v Speaker 1>to ensure that they were able to advance the technology

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<v Speaker 1>platform to a place where they can be more efficient

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<v Speaker 1>and more effective if they can associate themselves with that,

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<v Speaker 1>then we can tie that back to revenue growth, we

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<v Speaker 1>can tie that back to customer satisfaction statistics, things that Again,

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<v Speaker 1>if we're not reaching, if we're not doing the research

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<v Speaker 1>to understand what is happening within these organizations. And this

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<v Speaker 1>is information, especially for a public and trading company, that's

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<v Speaker 1>very easy to come by, so they get a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit more complex. It's not as easy as speeds and feeds,

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<v Speaker 1>so they become more complex. And then sometimes there's some misalignment.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes the metrics they are asked to focus on don't

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<v Speaker 1>align with the economic buyer's personal goals in addition to

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<v Speaker 1>the company goals. We've got to understand both of those.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the last thing that I'll say is we

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<v Speaker 1>get so caught up in selling on value and then

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<v Speaker 1>we get dumped into negotiating on price, and understanding the

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<v Speaker 1>value that we're selling on comes through our ability to

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<v Speaker 1>achieve those goals. But if we immediately jump back down

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<v Speaker 1>to price, our metrics tend to get lost in the wash.

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<v Speaker 1>And so those are some of the things I see

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<v Speaker 1>as far as frustrations with some of the reps that

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<v Speaker 1>we work with. Rachel and when it comes to the metrics.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, you bring up a good point too.

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<v Speaker 3>We focus on selling on value and also, I mean

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<v Speaker 3>I have produced a ton of content on aligning to

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<v Speaker 3>business pain right and doing great discoveries so you can

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<v Speaker 3>find the pain point and align to the business level

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<v Speaker 3>pain that matters to the economic buyer. But also that

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<v Speaker 3>digging deep and those questions help you align to the metrics.

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<v Speaker 3>So can you you mentioned questions a little bit ago,

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<v Speaker 3>can you talk about aligning to the metrics and asking

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<v Speaker 3>the right questions so you can do so?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure, So aligning with the metrics, to your point,

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<v Speaker 1>it starts with asking the right questions. And so the

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<v Speaker 1>first thing which we talk about a lot, it's listening

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<v Speaker 1>to understand, right are we listening and do we understand

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<v Speaker 1>their business or things we say about the seller deficit

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<v Speaker 1>to serve it. All the time we get labeled with

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<v Speaker 1>not listening and not understanding, so instead of just responding

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<v Speaker 1>truly understanding the client's needs and concerns. And so some

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<v Speaker 1>of the questions that you can ask, So I'll give

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<v Speaker 1>you a couple of examples of questions. What benchmarks or

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<v Speaker 1>industry standards are you comparing your current solution against is

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<v Speaker 1>one example. How are you measuring that? Now? Again, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to pause there for a second, because oftentimes they'll

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<v Speaker 1>know what the benchmarks that they're trying to compare themselves to,

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<v Speaker 1>but their measurements are unclear. They're unsure how to measure.

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<v Speaker 1>So we, being the professionals that we are and the

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<v Speaker 1>services that we provide to our customers, we have to

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<v Speaker 1>have a perspective. If the customer's unsure, if they're not

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<v Speaker 1>confident in the way they're measuring that, now we have

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<v Speaker 1>to share a perspective on here's what we've done that

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<v Speaker 1>in the past. And this is going to lead right

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<v Speaker 1>into some of the proof points and how metrics today's

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<v Speaker 1>metrics are tomorrow's proof points. Another good follow up question,

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<v Speaker 1>or a question that we can ask is who do

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<v Speaker 1>we share these metrics with? Who gets the reports, who

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<v Speaker 1>gets these insights, who looks at them? If it is

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<v Speaker 1>at a technical level, we probably need to elevate the

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<v Speaker 1>game up a little higher to understand how do these

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<v Speaker 1>technical metrics start to tie into more bigger initiatives or

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<v Speaker 1>strategic initiatives. And then the last what key performance indicators

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<v Speaker 1>or KPIs are you using to measure the effectiveness of

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<v Speaker 1>your current solution. And again that's the place where they

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<v Speaker 1>may not feel confident in the way they're currently measuring

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<v Speaker 1>those things, and we have to have a perspective. We

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<v Speaker 1>have to be the subject matter experts at this point

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<v Speaker 1>because we have done this with other customers, which I

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<v Speaker 1>think Rachel, you're probably going to ask me about current

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<v Speaker 1>customers and how we lead into that. Oh, either wait

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<v Speaker 1>until you ask me that question, or I can answer.

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<v Speaker 3>It now, go far, go for it, no need to wait.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think some of that is you know, as

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<v Speaker 1>I said, already, today's metrics, tomorrow's proof points. And it's

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<v Speaker 1>amazing how many aes I've been on calls with and

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<v Speaker 1>been in deal reviews with our opportunity coaching reviews with

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<v Speaker 1>to where it is a current customer we're trying to

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<v Speaker 1>upsell or cross sell or we've got a renewal in place,

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<v Speaker 1>and we don't have an understanding, a clear understanding of

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<v Speaker 1>what we've accomplished with what we sold them. Initially, we

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<v Speaker 1>passed it on to somebody else in the organization and

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<v Speaker 1>that person may or may not be the way you

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<v Speaker 1>did before you close the deal, or we have just

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<v Speaker 1>moved on to other things and now we've shown up

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<v Speaker 1>at the doorstep of our customers saying it's time for renewal.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm here, and again, this is a huge opportunity. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think those that can master this, that can understand

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<v Speaker 1>how they're accomplishing what they said they were going to

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<v Speaker 1>accomplish those business pains that they had and accomplishing the

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<v Speaker 1>strategic goals that our customers have by aligning the metrics

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<v Speaker 1>and having visibility on that on a consistent basis with

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<v Speaker 1>our customers when renewal time shows up. Now I've got

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<v Speaker 1>a proof point that is right inside the four walls

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<v Speaker 1>of the customer. I'm trying to renew versus starting all

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<v Speaker 1>over again with the sales process, trying to figure out

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<v Speaker 1>who's the economic body, who's my champion? How are we

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<v Speaker 1>going to position on an opportunity as best we can?

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<v Speaker 1>And I see this all the time. It is a

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<v Speaker 1>very consistent challenge that I see is that aes aren't

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<v Speaker 1>taking a look at where have we seen success in

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<v Speaker 1>what we've already implemented within these customers, And so we've

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<v Speaker 1>got to share that.

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<v Speaker 4>We've got to understand that, Yeah, when you determine those

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<v Speaker 4>metrics up front, you have the teeth in the conversation

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<v Speaker 4>that allow you to keep going back to them and

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<v Speaker 4>use them, particularly in the renewal.

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<v Speaker 3>Or as the next opportunity to sell comes through. Right

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<v Speaker 3>if it's conception, when they've drawed down whatever it is,

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<v Speaker 3>and I know that you know once you have those metrics,

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<v Speaker 3>let's say we've done it. We asked all those questions

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<v Speaker 3>that you had mentioned at what are the KPIs, how

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<v Speaker 3>are you measuring? I love that question? To whom do

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<v Speaker 3>you share your reporting insights? Because that can really give

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<v Speaker 3>you a look at the political landscape within the account too? Right?

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<v Speaker 3>But I know that there's some pep falls that reps

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<v Speaker 3>will fall into as they progress through the buying selling

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<v Speaker 3>process when it comes to those metrics. So talk about

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<v Speaker 3>what you see once those things are established and now

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<v Speaker 3>we're moving forward. What are the pitfalls that you see

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<v Speaker 3>reps fall into as it relates to them.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the biggest one that I see is misalignment.

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<v Speaker 1>They're just not focused on the metrics that are relevant

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<v Speaker 1>to the people we're speaking to a perfect example of that,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is one again it's going to tie into

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<v Speaker 1>where we get relegated to and that's procurement. When we

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<v Speaker 1>get into the negotiation of all right, it's time and

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<v Speaker 1>we start talking about price. We spend all this time

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<v Speaker 1>selling on value. Now we're going to start talking about price,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're misaligned with what is important to them. And

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<v Speaker 1>oftentimes there's so many thoughts that I have around this

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<v Speaker 1>is that we look at procurement as an organization or

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<v Speaker 1>a group of people that we want to try to

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<v Speaker 1>avoid versus trying to understand what's important to them. We

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<v Speaker 1>have to remember that their customer is our customer too,

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<v Speaker 1>that their buyer is our buyer. We're working with the

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<v Speaker 1>same buyer in this situation. And more often than not

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<v Speaker 1>in my experience and working with procurement teams, is they

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<v Speaker 1>don't know what the outcomes that the buyer is looking for.

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<v Speaker 1>They're just told to go negotiate. Price is important to them.

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<v Speaker 1>But if we take the time to educate and understand

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<v Speaker 1>what's important from a procurement standpoint and understanding what else

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<v Speaker 1>are they measured on, how can we ensure that they

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<v Speaker 1>hit their metrics not only from a cost savings perspective,

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<v Speaker 1>if that's even an alternative of something we can work with,

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<v Speaker 1>but understanding other metrics that are important to them. And

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<v Speaker 1>then talk to them about what they understand about the

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<v Speaker 1>product or services or tool that their organization is purchasing

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<v Speaker 1>that's going to help achieve the outcomes that they're looking for.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's just an example, but oftentimes we're misaligned that

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<v Speaker 1>are we talking technical metrics to somebody on the finance team?

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<v Speaker 1>Are we talking business metrics to somebody on the technical team.

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<v Speaker 1>We've got to make sure to your point around the

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<v Speaker 1>collect If yes, what are all the metrics are important?

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<v Speaker 1>How do we prioritize those? How do we stock rank

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<v Speaker 1>them to make sure that they're important and seen across

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<v Speaker 1>multiple audiences?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we have the story around the value, right, how

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<v Speaker 3>do you align the value to the pain point that

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<v Speaker 3>you're trying to solve? What's required to get their required capabilities?

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<v Speaker 3>And what are the PBOs that you're going to drive.

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<v Speaker 3>That is a layer with the metrics as well, because

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<v Speaker 3>the metrics can be different depending on who you speak to,

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<v Speaker 3>and they're also a critical component of your being able

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<v Speaker 3>to move the deal forwards. You almost have to build

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<v Speaker 3>out the value story, You've got to build out the

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<v Speaker 3>metrics story as well. Yeah, you know you mentioned using

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<v Speaker 3>metrics with customers. Obviously something to show your proof of

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<v Speaker 3>success within an account, right if you're doing that right,

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<v Speaker 3>But also it seems to be you know, I mentioned

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<v Speaker 3>them being kind of the teeth of the deal, and

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<v Speaker 3>as we move through a sales process or even in

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<v Speaker 3>the renewal like that whole ca from engagement process, you

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<v Speaker 3>as the quarterback of the deal or the salesperson, need

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<v Speaker 3>to typically remind everybody about what you heard, what we're

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<v Speaker 3>trying to drive, Here are the requirements for success, and

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<v Speaker 3>those metrics can also be kind of something to ground

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<v Speaker 3>your buyer on, like, hey, let's all remember what we're

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<v Speaker 3>trying to do here with or without us, You guys

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<v Speaker 3>need to improve these metrics or something like.

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<v Speaker 1>That, right, right, Yeah, you bring up a point, and

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<v Speaker 1>this is a kind of a what I would say

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<v Speaker 1>is an action item of listening to this podcast about

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<v Speaker 1>it and what can I do differently when I am

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<v Speaker 1>thinking about metrics. So one, it's again making sure you're aligned,

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<v Speaker 1>making sure you understand the different metrics and what's important

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<v Speaker 1>to different people, the things we've talked about already. But

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<v Speaker 1>I think the other thing is, and again this is

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<v Speaker 1>the common problem that I see is that once we

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<v Speaker 1>close the deal, we move on to other things and

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<v Speaker 1>ensharing that you have consistent visibility with your customer on

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<v Speaker 1>we said we were going to accomplish these things, this

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<v Speaker 1>is how we're performing. Do that in a quarterly business

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<v Speaker 1>review And again, very rarely do I see a consistency

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<v Speaker 1>with the customers that we've worked with over the years, Rachel,

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<v Speaker 1>where there's a quarterly business review with the customer that

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<v Speaker 1>is talking about not just the speeds and feeds and

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<v Speaker 1>technical metrics, but the business metrics and how we're accomplishing

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<v Speaker 1>some of these strategic initiatives that we said we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to solve for with the solution we

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<v Speaker 1>brought to the table. And so these qbrs are the

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<v Speaker 1>time and the place to talk about here's how we're

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<v Speaker 1>accomplishing those goals, and to find out what's changed, what's different,

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<v Speaker 1>what is moving, How did the needle move from today

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<v Speaker 1>to tomorrow? Because there's challenges when aligning metrics with their

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<v Speaker 1>strategic goals. There's data quality issues, right, I mean, there's

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<v Speaker 1>a list of things that I can go through, from

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<v Speaker 1>having inaccurate data, having data in silos, where how do

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<v Speaker 1>we pull all this together? And so the visibility becomes

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<v Speaker 1>poor and there's resistance to change. We're not a company

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<v Speaker 1>it looks at data points like that, and there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lack of buy in from certain levels of the organization.

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<v Speaker 1>We could help drive these things by having the right visibility.

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<v Speaker 1>There's again the complexity and the overload. There's too many

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<v Speaker 1>metrics right, Try to keep it simple, right and if

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<v Speaker 1>you have I always like to say, let's get three

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<v Speaker 1>or four metrics that we can really hone in on

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<v Speaker 1>versus having twelve to fourteen and most of them go

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<v Speaker 1>missing because nobody's paying attention to twelve to fourteen different metrics.

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<v Speaker 1>Market conditions right, there's changing market dynamics that are happening

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<v Speaker 1>every day right now, and we've got to be well

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<v Speaker 1>aware of how these changes can make it difficult to

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<v Speaker 1>teap metrics relevant and current with the business conditions. So

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<v Speaker 1>we've got to be agile. We've got to make sure

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<v Speaker 1>we understand how to adapt and change as time is

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<v Speaker 1>moving on. And if we're not staying in front of

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<v Speaker 1>that and we're not talking to our customers about that

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<v Speaker 1>on a consistent basis, as I said at a quarterly

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<v Speaker 1>business review, when it comes time to renewal, you will

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<v Speaker 1>be starting all over again. Versus speeding up your sales process,

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<v Speaker 1>staying in front of it, working with your customer success team,

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<v Speaker 1>working with your account management team. However, you're structured to

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<v Speaker 1>ensure that there's consistent communication with how you're performing against

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<v Speaker 1>what you said you.

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<v Speaker 3>Were going to solve exactly a constant point about validation.

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<v Speaker 3>The metrics should be something you're always qualifying. You're always validating,

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<v Speaker 3>just like the other critical components of the deal. Thank you, John, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And just one last closing thought of time for

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<v Speaker 1>it please you know, as metrics evolve, they can also

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<v Speaker 1>be a consistent reference point, as we said, today's metrics

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<v Speaker 1>or tomorrow's proof points throughout the sales process. So continue

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<v Speaker 1>to ask the questions about metrics that are important to

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<v Speaker 1>our buyers and use those through the lines of your

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<v Speaker 1>pitch throughout your entire sales cycle. Addressing these challenges it

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<v Speaker 1>requires a strategic approach. It requires involving clear commune ducation.

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<v Speaker 1>It involves having stakeholder engagement and continuous review and adjustment

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<v Speaker 1>of metrics to ensure that they remain aligned with your

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<v Speaker 1>customer's goals. And if you can do that again, you'll

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<v Speaker 1>start to separate yourself from how you sell versus what

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<v Speaker 1>you sell.

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<v Speaker 3>That's it, Mike Drop, John Bonie Boom, thank you for

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<v Speaker 3>joining me for this conversation today.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you appreciate it all.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, and thank you to all of you for listening

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<v Speaker 3>to the Audible Ready Sales podcast. We have a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of resources on metrics to go ahead and make sure

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<v Speaker 3>to check them out in the show notes. Thanks for listening.

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<v Speaker 5>At Force Management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into

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<v Speaker 5>elite teams. Our proven methodologies deliver programs that build company

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<v Speaker 5>alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the

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<v Speaker 5>ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale.

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<v Speaker 5>Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results.

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<v Speaker 5>Let's get started. Visit us at forestmanagement dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>You've been listening to the Audible Ready podcast. To not

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<v Speaker 2>miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite

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<v Speaker 2>podcast player until next time.