Speaker 1: Yeah. I always like to say, let's get three or
Speaker 1: four metrics that we can really hone in on, versus
Speaker 1: having twelve to fourteen, and most of them go missing
Speaker 1: because nobody's paying attention to twelve to fourteen different metrics.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Audible Ready Podcast, the show that
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Speaker 2: sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create
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Speaker 2: Presented by the team at Force Management, a leader in
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Speaker 3: Welcome to the Audible Ready Sales Podcast. I'm Rachel Klett Miller.
Speaker 3: Today we are going to talk about one of our
Speaker 3: most popular topics, metrics, and I think it's a topic
Speaker 3: that's popular because it tends to trip a lot of
Speaker 3: reps up even when you're trying to do everything you
Speaker 3: can to follow a sales methodology or like command of
Speaker 3: the message like medic. Metrics is an important part of
Speaker 3: both of those. So today John Boney is going to
Speaker 3: talk to us about the topic. Hi.
Speaker 1: John, Hey, Rachel, good to be here with you again.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, Yes, thank you for being here. John,
Speaker 3: I know you answer metrics questions a lot from the
Speaker 3: reps that we train. Let's just start talking about the
Speaker 3: two types of metrics and what's important to who.
Speaker 1: Yeah really good. When we think about metrics, there's really
Speaker 1: two types. There's your technical metrics and these are metrics
Speaker 1: that are focused on performance, reliability, efficiency of a product
Speaker 1: or service. The crucial for technical buyers, we need to
Speaker 1: ensure that the solution of metrics meets a specific technical requirement.
Speaker 1: It usually integrates well with other systems. So they're looking
Speaker 1: for these technical metrics that are really important to us,
Speaker 1: and the other metrics and this is the area where
Speaker 1: I see Rachel where there's usually more of a struggle.
Speaker 1: It's the business metrics. And these metrics usually appeal to
Speaker 1: the executives or the economic buyer and decision makers who
Speaker 1: are concerned with the overall impact of the business, such
Speaker 1: as return on investment, cost saving, strategic alignment. They help
Speaker 1: in the understanding of how the solution contributes to a
Speaker 1: broader business goal. Right, some of the strategic goals that
Speaker 1: organizations have that we're trying to meet, and if we
Speaker 1: can tie ourselves to that, then we're associating ourselves our
Speaker 1: metrics with with what those business metrics need to be,
Speaker 1: and those are really the two key areas and one differentiator.
Speaker 1: I do want to mention you had mentioned in the
Speaker 1: introduction between medic and command of the message and how
Speaker 1: metrics ties into both of those, And oftentimes there's confusion
Speaker 1: around the metrics and medic which is going to be
Speaker 1: more tied towards that economic buyer, and the metrics and
Speaker 1: command of the message, which are the metrics that are
Speaker 1: going to help us achieve the required capabilities. So there's
Speaker 1: a slight difference that's there, and I think that creates
Speaker 1: a little bit of the confusion, But we're here to
Speaker 1: solve that today and try to get people clear on
Speaker 1: how to differentiate between the two.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely absolutely, because to your point, it's almost like
Speaker 3: when you're trying to craft the deal right, you want
Speaker 3: to make sure you have the collective yes from your
Speaker 3: technical buyers, your economic buyers, your implementation people, and then
Speaker 3: with metrics you also have to have a broad story
Speaker 3: as it relates to the metrics and be tied to
Speaker 3: those high level business issues. She talked a little bit
Speaker 3: about the challenge that reps have, but do you think
Speaker 3: sometimes getting to those higher level metrics is that they're
Speaker 3: just not reaching enough, or the business issues are like
Speaker 3: drive efficiency and they don't know how to measure that specifically,
Speaker 3: like what are your reasons there?
Speaker 1: I think there's a couple things as to why reps
Speaker 1: will struggle with these things, and some of it is
Speaker 1: the reach, like who they're talking to. Oftentimes we're talking
Speaker 1: to people who are, as we like to say, masquerating
Speaker 1: is that economic buyer, but they're truly a technical buyer,
Speaker 1: and so we don't know what some of those strategic
Speaker 1: shoes are. And these metrics can be complex, they can
Speaker 1: be difficult to interpret when you're not asking the right questions.
Speaker 1: And I think some of the other things RACHEL that
Speaker 1: people get caught up on is every REP that we
Speaker 1: work with and every REP in the globe right they've
Speaker 1: all got pressure to meet specific goals and specific targets,
Speaker 1: which can cause stress and cause them to skip steps.
Speaker 1: And this is one of the ones that get skipped
Speaker 1: is understanding what are those metrics beyond technical. I think
Speaker 1: most of the reps that we work with do a
Speaker 1: nice job of understanding technically, what are the metrics we
Speaker 1: need to be able to solve for but from a
Speaker 1: business perspective, again to your point, the reach in talking
Speaker 1: to those true economic buyers, understanding the strategic initiatives that
Speaker 1: an organization has. And I'll give you an example. I
Speaker 1: was working with a client last week and it was
Speaker 1: a client that was based in EMEA, and we were
Speaker 1: talking about metrics, this exact topic, and in this conversation,
Speaker 1: I just happened to pull up the company that we
Speaker 1: were dealing with on their opportunity review. I pulled up
Speaker 1: their website and listed right there on their website where
Speaker 1: seven strategic priorities. And in those seven strategic priorities, two
Speaker 1: of them were tied to customer satisfaction and enhancement in
Speaker 1: the technologies in order to achieve their goals. Now, this
Speaker 1: company that we were working with, they're kind of in
Speaker 1: the security space, something we deal with a lot, and
Speaker 1: associating how their solution was going to help resolve some
Speaker 1: of those strategic initiatives that they have to ensure that
Speaker 1: customers were getting the experience that they were looking for,
Speaker 1: to ensure that they were able to advance the technology
Speaker 1: platform to a place where they can be more efficient
Speaker 1: and more effective if they can associate themselves with that,
Speaker 1: then we can tie that back to revenue growth, we
Speaker 1: can tie that back to customer satisfaction statistics, things that Again,
Speaker 1: if we're not reaching, if we're not doing the research
Speaker 1: to understand what is happening within these organizations. And this
Speaker 1: is information, especially for a public and trading company, that's
Speaker 1: very easy to come by, so they get a little
Speaker 1: bit more complex. It's not as easy as speeds and feeds,
Speaker 1: so they become more complex. And then sometimes there's some misalignment.
Speaker 1: Sometimes the metrics they are asked to focus on don't
Speaker 1: align with the economic buyer's personal goals in addition to
Speaker 1: the company goals. We've got to understand both of those.
Speaker 1: I think the last thing that I'll say is we
Speaker 1: get so caught up in selling on value and then
Speaker 1: we get dumped into negotiating on price, and understanding the
Speaker 1: value that we're selling on comes through our ability to
Speaker 1: achieve those goals. But if we immediately jump back down
Speaker 1: to price, our metrics tend to get lost in the wash.
Speaker 1: And so those are some of the things I see
Speaker 1: as far as frustrations with some of the reps that
Speaker 1: we work with. Rachel and when it comes to the metrics.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you bring up a good point too.
Speaker 3: We focus on selling on value and also, I mean
Speaker 3: I have produced a ton of content on aligning to
Speaker 3: business pain right and doing great discoveries so you can
Speaker 3: find the pain point and align to the business level
Speaker 3: pain that matters to the economic buyer. But also that
Speaker 3: digging deep and those questions help you align to the metrics.
Speaker 3: So can you you mentioned questions a little bit ago,
Speaker 3: can you talk about aligning to the metrics and asking
Speaker 3: the right questions so you can do so?
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, So aligning with the metrics, to your point,
Speaker 1: it starts with asking the right questions. And so the
Speaker 1: first thing which we talk about a lot, it's listening
Speaker 1: to understand, right are we listening and do we understand
Speaker 1: their business or things we say about the seller deficit
Speaker 1: to serve it. All the time we get labeled with
Speaker 1: not listening and not understanding, so instead of just responding
Speaker 1: truly understanding the client's needs and concerns. And so some
Speaker 1: of the questions that you can ask, So I'll give
Speaker 1: you a couple of examples of questions. What benchmarks or
Speaker 1: industry standards are you comparing your current solution against is
Speaker 1: one example. How are you measuring that? Now? Again, I'm
Speaker 1: going to pause there for a second, because oftentimes they'll
Speaker 1: know what the benchmarks that they're trying to compare themselves to,
Speaker 1: but their measurements are unclear. They're unsure how to measure.
Speaker 1: So we, being the professionals that we are and the
Speaker 1: services that we provide to our customers, we have to
Speaker 1: have a perspective. If the customer's unsure, if they're not
Speaker 1: confident in the way they're measuring that, now we have
Speaker 1: to share a perspective on here's what we've done that
Speaker 1: in the past. And this is going to lead right
Speaker 1: into some of the proof points and how metrics today's
Speaker 1: metrics are tomorrow's proof points. Another good follow up question,
Speaker 1: or a question that we can ask is who do
Speaker 1: we share these metrics with? Who gets the reports, who
Speaker 1: gets these insights, who looks at them? If it is
Speaker 1: at a technical level, we probably need to elevate the
Speaker 1: game up a little higher to understand how do these
Speaker 1: technical metrics start to tie into more bigger initiatives or
Speaker 1: strategic initiatives. And then the last what key performance indicators
Speaker 1: or KPIs are you using to measure the effectiveness of
Speaker 1: your current solution. And again that's the place where they
Speaker 1: may not feel confident in the way they're currently measuring
Speaker 1: those things, and we have to have a perspective. We
Speaker 1: have to be the subject matter experts at this point
Speaker 1: because we have done this with other customers, which I
Speaker 1: think Rachel, you're probably going to ask me about current
Speaker 1: customers and how we lead into that. Oh, either wait
Speaker 1: until you ask me that question, or I can answer.
Speaker 3: It now, go far, go for it, no need to wait.
Speaker 1: So I think some of that is you know, as
Speaker 1: I said, already, today's metrics, tomorrow's proof points. And it's
Speaker 1: amazing how many aes I've been on calls with and
Speaker 1: been in deal reviews with our opportunity coaching reviews with
Speaker 1: to where it is a current customer we're trying to
Speaker 1: upsell or cross sell or we've got a renewal in place,
Speaker 1: and we don't have an understanding, a clear understanding of
Speaker 1: what we've accomplished with what we sold them. Initially, we
Speaker 1: passed it on to somebody else in the organization and
Speaker 1: that person may or may not be the way you
Speaker 1: did before you close the deal, or we have just
Speaker 1: moved on to other things and now we've shown up
Speaker 1: at the doorstep of our customers saying it's time for renewal.
Speaker 1: I'm here, and again, this is a huge opportunity. And
Speaker 1: I think those that can master this, that can understand
Speaker 1: how they're accomplishing what they said they were going to
Speaker 1: accomplish those business pains that they had and accomplishing the
Speaker 1: strategic goals that our customers have by aligning the metrics
Speaker 1: and having visibility on that on a consistent basis with
Speaker 1: our customers when renewal time shows up. Now I've got
Speaker 1: a proof point that is right inside the four walls
Speaker 1: of the customer. I'm trying to renew versus starting all
Speaker 1: over again with the sales process, trying to figure out
Speaker 1: who's the economic body, who's my champion? How are we
Speaker 1: going to position on an opportunity as best we can?
Speaker 1: And I see this all the time. It is a
Speaker 1: very consistent challenge that I see is that aes aren't
Speaker 1: taking a look at where have we seen success in
Speaker 1: what we've already implemented within these customers, And so we've
Speaker 1: got to share that.
Speaker 4: We've got to understand that, Yeah, when you determine those
Speaker 4: metrics up front, you have the teeth in the conversation
Speaker 4: that allow you to keep going back to them and
Speaker 4: use them, particularly in the renewal.
Speaker 3: Or as the next opportunity to sell comes through. Right
Speaker 3: if it's conception, when they've drawed down whatever it is,
Speaker 3: and I know that you know once you have those metrics,
Speaker 3: let's say we've done it. We asked all those questions
Speaker 3: that you had mentioned at what are the KPIs, how
Speaker 3: are you measuring? I love that question? To whom do
Speaker 3: you share your reporting insights? Because that can really give
Speaker 3: you a look at the political landscape within the account too? Right?
Speaker 3: But I know that there's some pep falls that reps
Speaker 3: will fall into as they progress through the buying selling
Speaker 3: process when it comes to those metrics. So talk about
Speaker 3: what you see once those things are established and now
Speaker 3: we're moving forward. What are the pitfalls that you see
Speaker 3: reps fall into as it relates to them.
Speaker 1: I think the biggest one that I see is misalignment.
Speaker 1: They're just not focused on the metrics that are relevant
Speaker 1: to the people we're speaking to a perfect example of that,
Speaker 1: and this is one again it's going to tie into
Speaker 1: where we get relegated to and that's procurement. When we
Speaker 1: get into the negotiation of all right, it's time and
Speaker 1: we start talking about price. We spend all this time
Speaker 1: selling on value. Now we're going to start talking about price,
Speaker 1: and we're misaligned with what is important to them. And
Speaker 1: oftentimes there's so many thoughts that I have around this
Speaker 1: is that we look at procurement as an organization or
Speaker 1: a group of people that we want to try to
Speaker 1: avoid versus trying to understand what's important to them. We
Speaker 1: have to remember that their customer is our customer too,
Speaker 1: that their buyer is our buyer. We're working with the
Speaker 1: same buyer in this situation. And more often than not
Speaker 1: in my experience and working with procurement teams, is they
Speaker 1: don't know what the outcomes that the buyer is looking for.
Speaker 1: They're just told to go negotiate. Price is important to them.
Speaker 1: But if we take the time to educate and understand
Speaker 1: what's important from a procurement standpoint and understanding what else
Speaker 1: are they measured on, how can we ensure that they
Speaker 1: hit their metrics not only from a cost savings perspective,
Speaker 1: if that's even an alternative of something we can work with,
Speaker 1: but understanding other metrics that are important to them. And
Speaker 1: then talk to them about what they understand about the
Speaker 1: product or services or tool that their organization is purchasing
Speaker 1: that's going to help achieve the outcomes that they're looking for.
Speaker 1: And that's just an example, but oftentimes we're misaligned that
Speaker 1: are we talking technical metrics to somebody on the finance team?
Speaker 1: Are we talking business metrics to somebody on the technical team.
Speaker 1: We've got to make sure to your point around the
Speaker 1: collect If yes, what are all the metrics are important?
Speaker 1: How do we prioritize those? How do we stock rank
Speaker 1: them to make sure that they're important and seen across
Speaker 1: multiple audiences?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have the story around the value, right, how
Speaker 3: do you align the value to the pain point that
Speaker 3: you're trying to solve? What's required to get their required capabilities?
Speaker 3: And what are the PBOs that you're going to drive.
Speaker 3: That is a layer with the metrics as well, because
Speaker 3: the metrics can be different depending on who you speak to,
Speaker 3: and they're also a critical component of your being able
Speaker 3: to move the deal forwards. You almost have to build
Speaker 3: out the value story, You've got to build out the
Speaker 3: metrics story as well. Yeah, you know you mentioned using
Speaker 3: metrics with customers. Obviously something to show your proof of
Speaker 3: success within an account, right if you're doing that right,
Speaker 3: But also it seems to be you know, I mentioned
Speaker 3: them being kind of the teeth of the deal, and
Speaker 3: as we move through a sales process or even in
Speaker 3: the renewal like that whole ca from engagement process, you
Speaker 3: as the quarterback of the deal or the salesperson, need
Speaker 3: to typically remind everybody about what you heard, what we're
Speaker 3: trying to drive, Here are the requirements for success, and
Speaker 3: those metrics can also be kind of something to ground
Speaker 3: your buyer on, like, hey, let's all remember what we're
Speaker 3: trying to do here with or without us, You guys
Speaker 3: need to improve these metrics or something like.
Speaker 1: That, right, right, Yeah, you bring up a point, and
Speaker 1: this is a kind of a what I would say
Speaker 1: is an action item of listening to this podcast about
Speaker 1: it and what can I do differently when I am
Speaker 1: thinking about metrics. So one, it's again making sure you're aligned,
Speaker 1: making sure you understand the different metrics and what's important
Speaker 1: to different people, the things we've talked about already. But
Speaker 1: I think the other thing is, and again this is
Speaker 1: the common problem that I see is that once we
Speaker 1: close the deal, we move on to other things and
Speaker 1: ensharing that you have consistent visibility with your customer on
Speaker 1: we said we were going to accomplish these things, this
Speaker 1: is how we're performing. Do that in a quarterly business
Speaker 1: review And again, very rarely do I see a consistency
Speaker 1: with the customers that we've worked with over the years, Rachel,
Speaker 1: where there's a quarterly business review with the customer that
Speaker 1: is talking about not just the speeds and feeds and
Speaker 1: technical metrics, but the business metrics and how we're accomplishing
Speaker 1: some of these strategic initiatives that we said we're going
Speaker 1: to be able to solve for with the solution we
Speaker 1: brought to the table. And so these qbrs are the
Speaker 1: time and the place to talk about here's how we're
Speaker 1: accomplishing those goals, and to find out what's changed, what's different,
Speaker 1: what is moving, How did the needle move from today
Speaker 1: to tomorrow? Because there's challenges when aligning metrics with their
Speaker 1: strategic goals. There's data quality issues, right, I mean, there's
Speaker 1: a list of things that I can go through, from
Speaker 1: having inaccurate data, having data in silos, where how do
Speaker 1: we pull all this together? And so the visibility becomes
Speaker 1: poor and there's resistance to change. We're not a company
Speaker 1: it looks at data points like that, and there's a
Speaker 1: lack of buy in from certain levels of the organization.
Speaker 1: We could help drive these things by having the right visibility.
Speaker 1: There's again the complexity and the overload. There's too many
Speaker 1: metrics right, Try to keep it simple, right and if
Speaker 1: you have I always like to say, let's get three
Speaker 1: or four metrics that we can really hone in on
Speaker 1: versus having twelve to fourteen and most of them go
Speaker 1: missing because nobody's paying attention to twelve to fourteen different metrics.
Speaker 1: Market conditions right, there's changing market dynamics that are happening
Speaker 1: every day right now, and we've got to be well
Speaker 1: aware of how these changes can make it difficult to
Speaker 1: teap metrics relevant and current with the business conditions. So
Speaker 1: we've got to be agile. We've got to make sure
Speaker 1: we understand how to adapt and change as time is
Speaker 1: moving on. And if we're not staying in front of
Speaker 1: that and we're not talking to our customers about that
Speaker 1: on a consistent basis, as I said at a quarterly
Speaker 1: business review, when it comes time to renewal, you will
Speaker 1: be starting all over again. Versus speeding up your sales process,
Speaker 1: staying in front of it, working with your customer success team,
Speaker 1: working with your account management team. However, you're structured to
Speaker 1: ensure that there's consistent communication with how you're performing against
Speaker 1: what you said you.
Speaker 3: Were going to solve exactly a constant point about validation.
Speaker 3: The metrics should be something you're always qualifying. You're always validating,
Speaker 3: just like the other critical components of the deal. Thank you, John, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And just one last closing thought of time for
Speaker 1: it please you know, as metrics evolve, they can also
Speaker 1: be a consistent reference point, as we said, today's metrics
Speaker 1: or tomorrow's proof points throughout the sales process. So continue
Speaker 1: to ask the questions about metrics that are important to
Speaker 1: our buyers and use those through the lines of your
Speaker 1: pitch throughout your entire sales cycle. Addressing these challenges it
Speaker 1: requires a strategic approach. It requires involving clear commune ducation.
Speaker 1: It involves having stakeholder engagement and continuous review and adjustment
Speaker 1: of metrics to ensure that they remain aligned with your
Speaker 1: customer's goals. And if you can do that again, you'll
Speaker 1: start to separate yourself from how you sell versus what
Speaker 1: you sell.
Speaker 3: That's it, Mike Drop, John Bonie Boom, thank you for
Speaker 3: joining me for this conversation today.
Speaker 1: Thank you appreciate it all.
Speaker 3: Right, and thank you to all of you for listening
Speaker 3: to the Audible Ready Sales podcast. We have a lot
Speaker 3: of resources on metrics to go ahead and make sure
Speaker 3: to check them out in the show notes. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 5: At Force Management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into
Speaker 5: elite teams. Our proven methodologies deliver programs that build company
Speaker 5: alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the
Speaker 5: ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale.
Speaker 5: Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results.
Speaker 5: Let's get started. Visit us at forestmanagement dot com.
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