WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.130 --> 00:00:04.700 You're listening to Everything Out There with your host, Steve Stockton. 2 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:19.989 Hello, friends. And hello again, everybody. Steve Stockton here with you. 3 00:00:20.170 --> 00:00:24.030 Everything Out There. Joining me tonight on the phone, my friend, 4 00:00:24.210 --> 00:00:27.350 Eric Freeman Sims. You might know him from the Unseen 5 00:00:27.390 --> 00:00:31.350 Paranormal podcast. or from one of his new YouTube channels, 6 00:00:31.809 --> 00:00:34.490 strange chapters. And he told me what the other one was, 7 00:00:34.509 --> 00:00:36.649 and I've already forgot about it, but we'll bring him 8 00:00:36.770 --> 00:00:39.070 on here and let him tell us what's going on, 9 00:00:39.149 --> 00:00:41.369 what he's up to. Eric, come on in. Thanks for 10 00:00:41.390 --> 00:00:42.009 being here tonight. 11 00:00:42.490 --> 00:00:43.429 Yeah. Thanks for having me. 12 00:00:44.009 --> 00:00:45.929 And then what was that third channel that you mentioned 13 00:00:45.950 --> 00:00:47.210 or the new channel that you mentioned? 14 00:00:47.649 --> 00:00:49.670 So we're, I'm starting a new channel with my buddy, 15 00:00:49.729 --> 00:00:53.289 Austin Lawrence. Um, we're doing a new channel called strangely haunted, 16 00:00:54.030 --> 00:00:57.259 and we're going to do investigations, but in a way 17 00:00:57.310 --> 00:01:00.070 that people have never seen them before. So it's going 18 00:01:00.090 --> 00:01:02.149 to be without the drama. It's going to be real investigating, 19 00:01:02.329 --> 00:01:05.370 no faking, no drama, um, a lot of history thrown 20 00:01:05.409 --> 00:01:08.060 in there as well. Um, so we promise it'll be 21 00:01:08.109 --> 00:01:10.980 entertaining without all the drama. Uh, we're not going to 22 00:01:11.019 --> 00:01:12.959 have all the stupid gadgets and all that stuff. We'll 23 00:01:12.980 --> 00:01:15.340 have interesting experiments that we're going to do like scientifically 24 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:19.000 and stuff, but, um, not the flashy lights necessarily that 25 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:20.840 you see on TV that they just use to keep 26 00:01:20.900 --> 00:01:21.879 your attention. Yeah. 27 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:24.439 And that's good. I mean, I'd, I'd rather see the 28 00:01:24.500 --> 00:01:27.780 real deal than something that's, uh, infotainment, if you will, 29 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:31.989 it's been embellished or more or less kind of made up. 30 00:01:32.060 --> 00:01:33.819 And I, you know, I'm not going to call out 31 00:01:33.980 --> 00:01:36.480 anybody in particular, but there's some shows that do that, that, 32 00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:39.500 you know, as I've been on some hunts myself where 33 00:01:39.640 --> 00:01:42.390 absolutely nothing happened and nobody's going to sit there and 34 00:01:42.469 --> 00:01:45.329 watch that for an hour. So I get it. It 35 00:01:45.370 --> 00:01:48.049 makes for good TV, but I'd rather see the real deal. 36 00:01:48.090 --> 00:01:50.549 So it sounds like you're definitely on the right track there. 37 00:01:51.450 --> 00:01:53.150 Yeah. And I don't want to take any way, anything 38 00:01:53.170 --> 00:01:56.030 away from any of the YouTube channels either. But my 39 00:01:56.069 --> 00:01:58.250 only thing is just be honest. If you're going to 40 00:01:58.269 --> 00:02:00.310 be more entertainment than you are like the real deal, 41 00:02:00.329 --> 00:02:02.390 then just be honest about that and don't come out 42 00:02:02.430 --> 00:02:05.030 and try to defend yourself and say, we're real paranormal 43 00:02:05.060 --> 00:02:09.099 investigators when you're not, you know, that's just my big thing. 44 00:02:09.139 --> 00:02:10.800 Just be transparent about it. But yeah, we're going to 45 00:02:10.819 --> 00:02:12.319 try to do it in a way that, like I said, 46 00:02:12.379 --> 00:02:16.250 is entertaining, but yet it's like fishing, you know? So, 47 00:02:16.500 --> 00:02:19.569 you know, we'll take the opportunity to educate people on 48 00:02:19.650 --> 00:02:22.169 equipment and things that we're doing and things like that. And, 49 00:02:22.629 --> 00:02:25.909 kind of from a history education standpoint with the paranormal 50 00:02:25.949 --> 00:02:26.650 throne in there a bit. 51 00:02:26.669 --> 00:02:29.710 Well, that's cool. And I, uh, last episode I had 52 00:02:29.810 --> 00:02:32.229 a Cisco Murdoch on, I'm thinking, you know who she is. 53 00:02:32.669 --> 00:02:33.050 Uh, yeah. 54 00:02:33.189 --> 00:02:35.620 I love her show before. Haven't you? I believe. 55 00:02:36.180 --> 00:02:37.500 Yeah. And I actually go to hang out with her 56 00:02:37.530 --> 00:02:38.509 in Gettysburg last summer. 57 00:02:38.900 --> 00:02:41.360 Okay. Yeah, that's right. I forgot all about that. She 58 00:02:41.379 --> 00:02:43.560 keeps trying to get me up there to Gettysburg and, uh, 59 00:02:43.979 --> 00:02:46.080 in a video I've got coming up, I'm talking about 60 00:02:46.500 --> 00:02:49.620 a ghostly figure that they see there in Gettysburg, the 61 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:53.610 ghostly Sentinel that stands watch there. On Cemetery Ridge. But yeah, 62 00:02:53.650 --> 00:02:56.389 that's one of her big things. She goes every year 63 00:02:56.669 --> 00:03:00.550 or has for the last several. And one day we'll 64 00:03:00.590 --> 00:03:03.460 make it up there. But I'm closer now than I 65 00:03:03.530 --> 00:03:05.740 used to be now. I was in New Mexico. Now 66 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:08.199 I'm in New England. But a lot of stuff in 67 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:11.139 this area. But yeah, I got to get down to Gettysburg. 68 00:03:11.180 --> 00:03:15.120 That whole area just. But anyway, she was talking about 69 00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:18.979 she calls herself a paranormalist. Now, I'd never heard that word. 70 00:03:19.099 --> 00:03:22.699 I thought she coined it. But she attributes Harry Price, 71 00:03:22.719 --> 00:03:27.139 a guy from England that was a paranormalist. That's what 72 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:29.659 he called himself that investigated all this stuff years and 73 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:33.280 years and years ago. And she kind of detailed, you know, 74 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:36.060 how you go about that and what that means to 75 00:03:36.090 --> 00:03:40.330 be that sort of person. But without knowing her definition 76 00:03:40.349 --> 00:03:42.750 of it, do you consider yourself a paranormalist or are 77 00:03:42.789 --> 00:03:44.530 you just a paranormal investigator? 78 00:03:45.030 --> 00:03:47.610 I would say I'm a paranormalist because I love diving 79 00:03:47.629 --> 00:03:51.289 into the research and the history and the whole all 80 00:03:51.330 --> 00:03:54.530 of it surrounding the paranormal. So not just the investigation part, 81 00:03:55.349 --> 00:03:58.669 but also the history of trying to understand why a 82 00:03:58.689 --> 00:04:02.120 place is haunted, what type of haunting is there, and 83 00:04:02.139 --> 00:04:03.979 going down the rabbit holes of actually doing the research. 84 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:06.439 And to me, I think that's what a paranormalist is, 85 00:04:06.580 --> 00:04:10.860 is encompassing all aspects of the paranormal and being open-minded 86 00:04:10.939 --> 00:04:14.969 enough to at least investigate whether you believe in some 87 00:04:14.990 --> 00:04:16.170 of the parts of it. I don't believe in all 88 00:04:16.189 --> 00:04:20.850 of it, but I'm open-minded enough to want to go 89 00:04:20.889 --> 00:04:22.930 experience it and have people educate me or do the 90 00:04:22.970 --> 00:04:25.069 research to find out, well, why do people believe in this? 91 00:04:25.370 --> 00:04:27.379 You know, certain aspects. I'm not big on like the occult, 92 00:04:27.980 --> 00:04:31.060 but I try to go and educate myself to know 93 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:32.819 that part of the paranormal. So yeah, I think it's 94 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:36.040 about diving into the, the entire package of the paranormal 95 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:38.120 instead of just going and investigating. 96 00:04:39.259 --> 00:04:42.769 And your take on that almost a hundred percent concurs 97 00:04:42.790 --> 00:04:44.269 with what she was saying that you got to do 98 00:04:44.290 --> 00:04:49.029 the research you dig in, not what, what, going on there, 99 00:04:49.069 --> 00:04:51.709 but why what's going on is going on there. And 100 00:04:52.129 --> 00:04:55.399 she's a side of people like Amy Allen that will 101 00:04:55.420 --> 00:04:58.240 go into a place and do, I think her husband 102 00:04:58.259 --> 00:05:00.360 does the research and the history on the thing before 103 00:05:00.420 --> 00:05:03.579 she even goes in. So I do think that's important 104 00:05:03.620 --> 00:05:07.290 to help understand why there is activity, if there is 105 00:05:07.329 --> 00:05:08.949 indeed activity in these places. 106 00:05:09.540 --> 00:05:12.060 Yeah, and I think there are some investigators out there 107 00:05:12.100 --> 00:05:14.089 that don't want to know because they feel like they're 108 00:05:14.129 --> 00:05:17.529 biased if they know the story is going in. But 109 00:05:17.689 --> 00:05:20.189 my motto, and I don't remember who said this, but 110 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:22.550 somebody smarter than me said this, that we don't go 111 00:05:22.689 --> 00:05:25.610 investigating to investigate a haunting. We go into investigate stories 112 00:05:25.649 --> 00:05:27.970 of a haunting, because if you go and investigate a haunting, 113 00:05:28.069 --> 00:05:30.670 you already have that preconceived notion that the place is haunted. 114 00:05:31.069 --> 00:05:33.709 And you, I mean, you know, people have different motives. 115 00:05:33.750 --> 00:05:36.509 People could be making things up. You never know. And 116 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:38.899 so that's why we go into investigate stories of a haunting, 117 00:05:38.939 --> 00:05:41.639 because until I have an experience there or capture some 118 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:43.819 sort of evidence, then I can't tell you places has 119 00:05:43.860 --> 00:05:45.019 any activity or not. Yeah. 120 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:49.019 And that makes sense. If you don't know, the history 121 00:05:49.060 --> 00:05:51.829 or the backstory, then it could be anything. 122 00:05:52.209 --> 00:05:54.089 Right, right. And there are a lot of things out 123 00:05:54.110 --> 00:05:57.189 there that people just don't think about when they approach 124 00:05:57.209 --> 00:05:59.649 the paranormal and things happening because there's a lot of 125 00:05:59.670 --> 00:06:01.649 emotion wrapped around that because a lot of times, you know, 126 00:06:01.709 --> 00:06:03.629 it's maybe with family members and things like that have 127 00:06:03.670 --> 00:06:06.170 passed on. But, you know, you can have different things 128 00:06:06.209 --> 00:06:07.750 in your house that can cause things that you would 129 00:06:07.810 --> 00:06:09.939 think is a haunting when it's not. It could be, 130 00:06:10.069 --> 00:06:13.420 you know, plumbing or electrical issues or, you know, a 131 00:06:13.459 --> 00:06:16.639 lot of people get photo anomalies and they just don't, 132 00:06:17.379 --> 00:06:19.379 you know they want to jump to something's paranormal when 133 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:23.529 it's not when it's it's completely explainable uh with uh 134 00:06:23.750 --> 00:06:27.069 lens flares and back scattering and uh back scattering is 135 00:06:27.110 --> 00:06:29.290 when you get like it looks like there's a thousand 136 00:06:29.410 --> 00:06:32.019 orbs in the picture right um photographers call that back 137 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:34.980 scattering and it's just a reflection of either water vapor 138 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:37.040 or dust or something you know some kind of particles 139 00:06:37.079 --> 00:06:40.000 in the atmosphere but um but understanding all of that 140 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:42.620 and having i think it's healthy to have A skeptical 141 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:45.139 mind going in as well so that you can separate 142 00:06:45.180 --> 00:06:47.100 what is really paranormal and what is not. And I 143 00:06:47.139 --> 00:06:51.319 would never discredit anybody's experiences because I wasn't there. And 144 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:53.850 so I can't tell you you didn't have this experience. 145 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:55.670 I can tell you, well, maybe it was this. Let's 146 00:06:55.689 --> 00:06:58.250 look at it from a scientific standpoint. You know, maybe 147 00:06:58.269 --> 00:07:00.329 you did have an experience with grandma. I don't know. 148 00:07:00.750 --> 00:07:02.930 But maybe it wasn't, you know, at the same time. 149 00:07:03.009 --> 00:07:06.360 So I also call myself a skeptical believer sometimes. going 150 00:07:06.420 --> 00:07:08.480 in because like I said, we're going to, you have 151 00:07:08.500 --> 00:07:10.600 to have some sort of skeptical mind to separate. So 152 00:07:10.620 --> 00:07:14.180 you don't bias yourself into thinking that everything is paranormal. Yeah. 153 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:16.560 And I agree on that. And like in my book, 154 00:07:16.579 --> 00:07:19.019 strange things in the woods, there's some things that they 155 00:07:19.060 --> 00:07:22.300 are strange, but they're not paranormal. They were explained, but 156 00:07:22.899 --> 00:07:26.819 everything is not something paranormal necessarily, but then a lot 157 00:07:26.870 --> 00:07:29.389 of things are, and what you were saying there about 158 00:07:29.509 --> 00:07:33.610 people trying to tell you what you didn't experience. That's 159 00:07:33.629 --> 00:07:36.620 always bothered me. I was there. I know what I saw. 160 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:38.240 I know what I felt. I know what I heard. 161 00:07:38.259 --> 00:07:40.810 I know what I smelled. And I've likened it to 162 00:07:41.870 --> 00:07:44.850 putting your hand on a hot stove and burning yourself. 163 00:07:44.889 --> 00:07:46.949 And then somebody saying, nah, you didn't get burnt. That's 164 00:07:47.009 --> 00:07:47.410 not hot. 165 00:07:47.910 --> 00:07:48.329 Right. Okay. 166 00:07:48.509 --> 00:07:50.129 Tell that to the blisters on my fingers. 167 00:07:50.649 --> 00:07:53.589 Right. Yeah. And I get some kind of pushback from 168 00:07:53.629 --> 00:07:56.189 people sometimes because I am, I do have a skeptical 169 00:07:56.230 --> 00:07:59.339 mind also, but also when people understand I'm an empath, 170 00:07:59.720 --> 00:08:02.180 I've been haunted my whole life. I've had experiences my 171 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:06.129 whole life. You know, so but also I'm very analytical minded. 172 00:08:06.379 --> 00:08:08.379 So I have to go into an investigation. I think 173 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:11.279 that that's to me, that's what an investigation is, for one, 174 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:14.199 because I want the any kind of evidence that I 175 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:17.439 capture to be held up to scrutiny. You know what 176 00:08:17.459 --> 00:08:18.839 I'm saying? So if I'm going to take a picture 177 00:08:18.899 --> 00:08:21.160 or video or an audio clip and put it out 178 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:23.759 there for people to listen to. And I'm saying, you know, 179 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:25.920 this is not normal. I don't know what it is. 180 00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:27.720 I can't tell you for sure. It's a spirit, but 181 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:30.540 it's definitely paranormal. You know, this voice wasn't there on 182 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:33.350 the audio. You know, we got this answer. Then I 183 00:08:33.370 --> 00:08:35.549 want when people have questions, then I want to say, well, 184 00:08:35.570 --> 00:08:37.100 we try to debunk it this way. We try to 185 00:08:37.129 --> 00:08:39.059 explain it this way and we can find the explanation 186 00:08:39.100 --> 00:08:41.539 for it. And I think that helps the evidence hold 187 00:08:41.580 --> 00:08:43.600 up a lot more than just throwing it out there 188 00:08:43.620 --> 00:08:46.740 without doing any kind of critical thinking on what else 189 00:08:46.779 --> 00:08:49.179 it could be, especially when it comes to photographs and 190 00:08:49.460 --> 00:08:52.659 video nowadays, because it's so easy to fake that stuff 191 00:08:52.700 --> 00:08:55.379 with editing programs. And I'm very well versed. 192 00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:56.659 In editing stuff. Yeah. 193 00:08:57.059 --> 00:08:59.750 Yeah. With the AI as well. I've seen so many 194 00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:03.169 pictures here lately of AI Bigfoot. that people were trying 195 00:09:03.190 --> 00:09:06.429 to pass off as, as being real. And luckily people 196 00:09:06.450 --> 00:09:09.220 were still, you know, looking at it and saying, that's 197 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:10.480 just a, come on, you know? 198 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:13.940 Yeah. And I remember years and years ago when CGI 199 00:09:13.980 --> 00:09:16.600 was really getting into the hands of the consumer, a 200 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:19.120 lot of people were using that to try to fake evidence. 201 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:22.259 It was obvious to me even then, but there were 202 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:24.759 people that fell for it. And I think there's always 203 00:09:24.779 --> 00:09:27.299 going to be people that want to believe so bad 204 00:09:27.340 --> 00:09:30.110 that there is a certain amount of gullibility in there. 205 00:09:30.139 --> 00:09:33.299 That's just, As somebody once said, I can't remember who 206 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:36.179 it was, but we want to believe in supernatural things 207 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:38.779 because we want to believe there's something bigger out there 208 00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:41.559 in the universe than we are. And I agree with that. 209 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:45.639 And I do like the scientific method for looking at things, 210 00:09:45.730 --> 00:09:47.970 although a lot of these things don't fit in to 211 00:09:48.549 --> 00:09:52.210 the realm of the scientific. Now, it's a quote from 212 00:09:52.269 --> 00:09:56.210 a fictional character, Sherlock Holmes. But he said, how often 213 00:09:56.330 --> 00:09:58.129 have I said to you that when you have eliminated 214 00:09:58.169 --> 00:10:02.639 the impossible, whatever remains? however improbable, must be the truth. 215 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:07.340 And that's Sir Arthur Conan Doyle writing as Sherlock Holmes. 216 00:10:07.379 --> 00:10:11.240 But still, I think there's a nugget of truth in 217 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:14.429 there that if you use the scientific method and you 218 00:10:14.470 --> 00:10:18.269 can explain it away, then it must be supernatural. My 219 00:10:18.330 --> 00:10:21.490 father was a scientist out at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, 220 00:10:22.149 --> 00:10:24.470 and he would talk about things that they had under 221 00:10:24.529 --> 00:10:28.720 controlled laboratory conditions that happened that weren't supposed to happen, 222 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:32.740 that they couldn't get to happen again, totally anomalous occurrences 223 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:35.980 under controlled conditions like that. And his take on it 224 00:10:36.019 --> 00:10:38.580 was there's just some things that science can't explain. So 225 00:10:38.639 --> 00:10:42.409 I think that's true with anything in any type of 226 00:10:42.429 --> 00:10:46.279 a study and especially in the paranormal and supernatural. 227 00:10:47.129 --> 00:10:50.470 Yeah. Yeah. I agree totally. Um, and with being an 228 00:10:50.549 --> 00:10:53.389 empath my whole life, I can't explain that. I can 229 00:10:53.429 --> 00:10:56.029 just tell you what I experienced, you know, with dealing 230 00:10:56.049 --> 00:10:58.309 with other people's energy and things like that and feeling 231 00:10:58.350 --> 00:11:00.960 that there's no way I can quantify that. And there's 232 00:11:00.980 --> 00:11:03.440 no way to explain it away sometimes, you know, as, 233 00:11:03.559 --> 00:11:06.679 as being something that's just normal. Cause it's not, it's 234 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:10.059 not normal to go around taking on other people's emotions sometimes, 235 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:12.440 you know, and being like, no, that's not my end. 236 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:16.039 And have been since childhood. Yeah. I walk into a 237 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:18.240 room and if there's people fighting or arguing in there, 238 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:19.480 I pick up on that. 239 00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:20.039 Yeah. 240 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:21.460 It's the good and the bad. 241 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:22.000 Yeah. 242 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:24.759 But again, it's not something that we choose. I think 243 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:27.100 it chooses us if, if there is a choice in 244 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:30.679 there anywhere. But, uh, I started experiencing things from a 245 00:11:30.700 --> 00:11:33.450 very young age, like three or four years old. And 246 00:11:33.490 --> 00:11:35.470 I'm betting you did too. A lot of people that, 247 00:11:35.590 --> 00:11:37.669 that three to four, that seems to be the age 248 00:11:37.710 --> 00:11:41.490 that the paranormal and supernatural things like that, uh, being 249 00:11:41.509 --> 00:11:44.600 an empath or whatever. I think it starts revealing itself 250 00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:47.740 to you when your mind is still forming in the 251 00:11:47.779 --> 00:11:50.210 very early years there so that you get kind of 252 00:11:50.299 --> 00:11:50.820 used to it. 253 00:11:51.830 --> 00:11:53.409 Yeah. And I was very lucky to grow up in 254 00:11:53.470 --> 00:11:57.710 a family that my mom, my grandmother who raised me, 255 00:11:57.730 --> 00:12:01.590 I call her my mom, was very much an empath herself. 256 00:12:02.110 --> 00:12:05.649 So I wasn't taught out of it. If anything, it 257 00:12:05.710 --> 00:12:08.559 was just kind of it wasn't necessarily talked about either. 258 00:12:09.419 --> 00:12:11.539 Because I think part of my family that has the 259 00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:14.039 same abilities, I think it scares them. So they don't 260 00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:16.639 want to talk about it. My mom, on the other hand, 261 00:12:16.700 --> 00:12:18.960 would talk about it. But the rest of my family 262 00:12:18.980 --> 00:12:20.470 are just like, you know, that thing that we do. 263 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:24.409 They kind of brush it off like that. But I'm 264 00:12:24.429 --> 00:12:27.669 the only one that's like outright like putting a label 265 00:12:27.730 --> 00:12:29.129 on it or trying to figure out. I don't know. 266 00:12:29.289 --> 00:12:31.470 I call myself an empath. I don't know. There's many 267 00:12:31.509 --> 00:12:35.019 different abilities there that I've. had over the years but 268 00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:37.120 yeah as long as i can remember and i had 269 00:12:37.139 --> 00:12:41.279 this insane connection with my mom telepathically that i would 270 00:12:41.299 --> 00:12:44.159 come home from school excited about something and she would 271 00:12:44.179 --> 00:12:46.549 already know what it was without being able to know 272 00:12:46.570 --> 00:12:48.690 what it was you know and that was long before 273 00:12:48.750 --> 00:12:50.669 cell phones and stuff so the school hasn't called her 274 00:12:50.690 --> 00:12:52.750 i haven't called her you know to tell her what 275 00:12:52.769 --> 00:12:54.809 i was excited about or whatever a play or you 276 00:12:54.830 --> 00:12:57.149 know whatever i was doing at school and so me 277 00:12:57.169 --> 00:12:59.889 and her just always had that connection and now it's 278 00:12:59.950 --> 00:13:01.980 crazy uh me and my husband together almost 19 years 279 00:13:03.169 --> 00:13:06.039 and me and him have that connection where we, um, 280 00:13:06.179 --> 00:13:08.639 finish these other sentences, but not just because we know 281 00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:10.519 each other, we'll be riding down the road, not talk 282 00:13:10.539 --> 00:13:13.019 for 20 minutes. And then I will say something just 283 00:13:13.059 --> 00:13:15.490 out of the blue. That's just a random topic or 284 00:13:15.549 --> 00:13:18.190 he will. And he's in me and we're both looking 285 00:13:18.210 --> 00:13:19.750 at each other. Like I was just thinking the same thing, 286 00:13:20.549 --> 00:13:22.570 you know, and it'd just be something completely random that 287 00:13:22.590 --> 00:13:24.690 we ain't talked about in a month. I never talked about. 288 00:13:24.950 --> 00:13:26.919 My wife and I do that all the time. We've 289 00:13:26.940 --> 00:13:30.809 got that soul connection like that, that, Something, like you said, 290 00:13:30.830 --> 00:13:33.720 just seemingly out of the blue, random will pop into 291 00:13:33.750 --> 00:13:35.820 my head and I'll say something about it. She's like, 292 00:13:35.889 --> 00:13:38.279 I was just thinking about that. And I do the 293 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:40.899 same thing. So it goes both ways. And that's just 294 00:13:41.019 --> 00:13:44.240 amazing to have that kind of connection with someone. And 295 00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:46.700 then you talked about that connection you had with your 296 00:13:46.899 --> 00:13:51.559 grandmother that you call your mom. My grandmother, my maternal grandmother, 297 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:54.200 she and I shared that, but it only seemed to 298 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:56.600 work one direction. She would know what I was doing 299 00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:58.519 or thinking, but I didn't have a clue in June. 300 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:04.289 what she had in her bonnet. But she probably realized 301 00:14:04.330 --> 00:14:06.950 that I could do that and locked it off of me. 302 00:14:07.450 --> 00:14:10.610 But there's a story that I've told many times where 303 00:14:10.870 --> 00:14:13.330 there was a spot on the highway on the way 304 00:14:13.370 --> 00:14:16.029 to her house, an old farmhouse there, kind of set 305 00:14:16.090 --> 00:14:18.600 up on a little hill. And years prior, before I 306 00:14:18.629 --> 00:14:21.240 was ever born, some kids were playing ball out there. 307 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:24.019 And one of them chased the ball out into the 308 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:27.539 road and was struck and killed by an automobile. And, uh, 309 00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:30.190 I would feel that spot. Like when we went by there, 310 00:14:30.230 --> 00:14:34.139 you know, I get those goosebumps, those kind of tingly feeling. And, um, 311 00:14:34.649 --> 00:14:36.149 one night we were on the way to her house. 312 00:14:36.250 --> 00:14:38.450 I was laying in the back seat, reading a comic book. 313 00:14:38.529 --> 00:14:42.120 This was years before seatbelts. And I felt that little 314 00:14:42.220 --> 00:14:44.259 weird tingle. And I just raised up enough that I 315 00:14:44.299 --> 00:14:46.620 could see out the window. Sure enough, we're passing by 316 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:49.639 that old white farmhouse. I didn't say a word to anybody. 317 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:51.899 Never had, even though I'd felt that every time I 318 00:14:51.940 --> 00:14:55.519 drove by there, rode by there. But, um, Went back 319 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:57.620 to my comic book. We got there. We're going in. 320 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:00.850 My mom and dad, I think we're carrying groceries in 321 00:15:00.899 --> 00:15:04.509 or something. They're getting ready for some kind of holiday meal. 322 00:15:04.529 --> 00:15:07.529 And they were helping her get stuff together. And she 323 00:15:07.570 --> 00:15:10.070 took me off into her quilting room, which she lived 324 00:15:10.090 --> 00:15:13.549 in this big old Victorian farmhouse. And the quilting room 325 00:15:13.590 --> 00:15:16.320 had once been a formal dining room, but they ate 326 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:20.100 at a table in the kitchen. And she turned that. 327 00:15:20.500 --> 00:15:23.639 big dining room into her quilting room. And in the wintertime, 328 00:15:23.659 --> 00:15:26.720 she'd sit in there and piece quilts together. And that, 329 00:15:26.860 --> 00:15:29.960 that was her bottom. You weren't allowed in the quilting room, 330 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:32.179 but unless she took you in there and she would 331 00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:33.360 take me in there. As far as I know, I 332 00:15:33.379 --> 00:15:36.179 was the only grandchild that got to go into that 333 00:15:36.259 --> 00:15:38.799 inner sanctum, but she took me in there, which, which 334 00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:41.659 she would do often and, uh, tell me some bit 335 00:15:41.700 --> 00:15:46.139 of folklore or superstition or how to, uh, change bad 336 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:48.620 luck or how to draw good luck. She told fortunes 337 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:51.440 and red coffee grounds and tea leaves and health seances 338 00:15:51.500 --> 00:15:55.000 and stuff. But that particular night, she was saying something about, 339 00:15:55.019 --> 00:15:56.529 and I was scared of her when I was a 340 00:15:56.570 --> 00:15:59.909 small child. She looked like a Hansel and Gretel style witch. 341 00:16:01.129 --> 00:16:03.450 She kind of humped over and had arthritis in her hands. 342 00:16:03.509 --> 00:16:06.230 So she could be quite frightening. She took me back 343 00:16:06.250 --> 00:16:08.169 there and she was saying something about feelings. And she said, 344 00:16:08.210 --> 00:16:10.840 you feel things. And I said, well, yeah, I've got 345 00:16:10.909 --> 00:16:13.000 feelings that you can hurt or if you pinch me, 346 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:16.559 I'll feel it. She said, no. I'm talking about you 347 00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:19.860 feel things like that spot on the highway on the 348 00:16:19.899 --> 00:16:22.720 way here. And my jaw hit the floor area. I'd 349 00:16:22.820 --> 00:16:26.179 never said anything about that to anybody. And we were 350 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:29.299 miles away from where she lived. But she knew that 351 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:32.629 I had experienced something on the way there. Now, according 352 00:16:32.669 --> 00:16:34.730 to her, she was present at my birth. My mom 353 00:16:34.750 --> 00:16:36.929 was knocked out. That was back when they still gave 354 00:16:37.610 --> 00:16:40.450 ladies a twilight sleep when they were in delivery. My 355 00:16:40.470 --> 00:16:43.620 grams was present at my birth. And she said that 356 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:45.879 I was born with a veil over my face or 357 00:16:46.899 --> 00:16:50.440 in call, the call, the afterbirth was stretched over my 358 00:16:50.500 --> 00:16:52.559 head and it had to be cut away. And she 359 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:54.179 kept it. I don't know what she did with it. 360 00:16:54.179 --> 00:16:56.190 I hope she didn't make soup or something out of it. 361 00:16:56.940 --> 00:16:59.799 But according to her, that marked me as a special 362 00:16:59.860 --> 00:17:03.000 child with abilities. And I still, you know, like you said, 363 00:17:03.019 --> 00:17:06.400 I don't know that I've got any specific abilities or anything, 364 00:17:06.420 --> 00:17:09.509 but I do know about things sometimes in advance and 365 00:17:09.569 --> 00:17:13.140 I do have empathy that the whole empath thing. But 366 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:15.599 according to her, that marked me as a special child. 367 00:17:15.700 --> 00:17:17.799 And she took me under her wing to teach me 368 00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:19.640 all this out of all the grandkids. And there was 369 00:17:19.660 --> 00:17:22.869 a bunch. She had 10 kids, nine boys and my mother. 370 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.150 I couldn't get away with anything. My mom knew all 371 00:17:25.190 --> 00:17:28.470 the boy tricks, having nine brothers. I was the only 372 00:17:28.609 --> 00:17:32.269 grandchild that had that condition. So again, she wanted to 373 00:17:32.309 --> 00:17:33.950 teach me all this stuff. Then the rest of my 374 00:17:33.990 --> 00:17:36.720 cousins and things didn't have any interest in it anyway. 375 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:40.190 So kind of her legacy, but it's, it's, it's frightening, 376 00:17:40.230 --> 00:17:42.269 especially when you're a little kid and you can feel 377 00:17:42.309 --> 00:17:45.099 things and know things and then think that your grandma 378 00:17:45.150 --> 00:17:46.700 can read your mind. I'm like, you know, I gotta 379 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:49.039 be careful what I think because granny might hear that. 380 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:52.299 Right. Right. Yeah. When I was, uh, I kind of 381 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:55.420 felt that way, especially as a teenager, um, which I, 382 00:17:55.819 --> 00:17:57.799 I mean, I've never been arrested. I've never been in trouble. 383 00:17:57.859 --> 00:18:01.640 I was not a, never been a troublemaker, uh, at all. Uh, 384 00:18:01.740 --> 00:18:03.680 not even in school. Like I got good grades and 385 00:18:03.700 --> 00:18:05.779 all that stuff. But, uh, but even if I went 386 00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:09.869 and did something wrong, like I felt guilty, because I 387 00:18:09.910 --> 00:18:12.069 was afraid that my mom would just know, you know, 388 00:18:12.109 --> 00:18:14.279 because we have that connection. So, yeah, I understand what 389 00:18:14.299 --> 00:18:16.319 you're saying there, but it, you know, the same. 390 00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:18.059 I was always, you know, I was the good kid. 391 00:18:18.099 --> 00:18:20.799 I've never been arrested, never even been suspected of anything. 392 00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:23.099 I was kind of sneaky about my mischief. 393 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:24.559 I was too. Yeah. 394 00:18:24.779 --> 00:18:26.720 But the same, you know, even as a teenager, I'd 395 00:18:26.740 --> 00:18:29.559 be like, you know, I'd, I'd have that playboy magazine 396 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:32.180 under the bed. You know, does my grandma know that's 397 00:18:32.259 --> 00:18:35.059 in there? I better go put that in the trash. Right. And, um, 398 00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:37.460 I mean, she never said anything about anything like that, 399 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:40.329 but it, It was kind of a Jiminy Cricket almost, 400 00:18:40.349 --> 00:18:43.730 you know, that little conscience that sat on your shoulder. 401 00:18:44.109 --> 00:18:45.910 Maybe you shouldn't be looking at that, you know, that 402 00:18:45.970 --> 00:18:46.670 sort of thing. 403 00:18:46.970 --> 00:18:47.589 Yeah. 404 00:18:48.109 --> 00:18:50.269 Bless her for that, though, because I think that kept 405 00:18:50.309 --> 00:18:51.890 me out of a lot of trouble that I could 406 00:18:51.910 --> 00:18:52.650 have gotten into. 407 00:18:52.930 --> 00:18:54.509 Yeah, I was kind of sneaky. I mean, I've done 408 00:18:54.529 --> 00:18:55.970 some things I probably should have went to jail for, 409 00:18:56.019 --> 00:19:00.059 but it wasn't anything crazy. You know, when you're a teenager, 410 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.759 you do stupid stuff like vandalize places and things like that. 411 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:06.680 But my biggest thing was sneaking into places and trespassing 412 00:19:06.700 --> 00:19:09.099 to ghost hunts. That's probably my biggest thing when I 413 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:11.980 was a teenager that I probably could have went to 414 00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:14.799 jail for. But and that's how I got my start 415 00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:16.299 investigating when I was a teenager. 416 00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:18.920 I was the same way, an old house, an old barn, 417 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:22.390 a mill, something that was abandoned. And just, you know, 418 00:19:22.410 --> 00:19:25.230 those places are full of stories and probably full of ghosts. 419 00:19:25.329 --> 00:19:28.450 And I've done the same thing. In fact, one of 420 00:19:28.509 --> 00:19:31.869 my encounters that I wrote about in my strange world. 421 00:19:32.380 --> 00:19:34.380 I'd gone back to my elementary school, a friend and 422 00:19:34.420 --> 00:19:36.559 I did, and we broke in. It was still a 423 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:39.519 functioning school at the time. It's not now. We found 424 00:19:39.579 --> 00:19:41.380 a window that was unlocked and went in and then 425 00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:44.390 had some sort of paranormal experience there with a sounded 426 00:19:44.410 --> 00:19:46.890 like high heels crossing the gym floor, but we could 427 00:19:46.910 --> 00:19:49.299 see there wasn't anybody in there, but yeah there was 428 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:51.720 a teacher that uh she didn't die in the school 429 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:54.180 but she had died i think in a car accident 430 00:19:54.220 --> 00:19:57.460 according to the playground legend and everybody said her ghost 431 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:00.029 haunted that school but there was somebody in there walking 432 00:20:00.049 --> 00:20:03.190 around in high heels that wasn't visible so we we 433 00:20:03.210 --> 00:20:06.009 got the heck out of there but again yeah that's 434 00:20:06.109 --> 00:20:06.589 that was. 435 00:20:06.529 --> 00:20:09.250 My kind of mischief yeah yeah me as well and 436 00:20:09.450 --> 00:20:13.299 um The place we snuck into was an actual historic 437 00:20:13.339 --> 00:20:15.559 place that was open for tours. But we would go 438 00:20:15.579 --> 00:20:17.119 in there, you know, 2, 3 o'clock in the morning. 439 00:20:17.140 --> 00:20:19.720 There was nobody there. And we never went in the house. 440 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.579 It was always locked up. We never even sat on 441 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:24.759 the front porch. But we were on this big property. 442 00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:27.700 It's an old plantation house. We'd walk around the property 443 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:30.940 and experience things. And I even saw what I think 444 00:20:30.980 --> 00:20:32.940 was the lady of the house pull the curtains back 445 00:20:32.980 --> 00:20:34.339 and poke her head in the window. You know, if 446 00:20:34.380 --> 00:20:35.579 it would have been a real person, they would have 447 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:38.069 called the police on us because we were trespassing. But yeah, 448 00:20:38.089 --> 00:20:41.630 sneaking into places like that and even abandoned places, going 449 00:20:41.650 --> 00:20:43.029 to cemeteries in the middle of the night where you 450 00:20:43.650 --> 00:20:46.809 probably shouldn't have been, especially growing up in the Bible Belt. 451 00:20:47.190 --> 00:20:50.470 That's definitely frowned upon. Yeah, you took the words out 452 00:20:50.490 --> 00:20:50.829 of my mouth. 453 00:20:50.910 --> 00:20:52.869 That was frowned upon when I was a kid, but 454 00:20:53.329 --> 00:20:55.289 that was one of my favorite places to go. There 455 00:20:55.309 --> 00:20:58.279 was a cemetery up the road where people had seen 456 00:20:58.339 --> 00:21:00.470 and heard all kinds of things. There was an old 457 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:03.799 building there that was abandoned at that time, but it 458 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:06.579 had been everything from a school to a Masonic lodge 459 00:21:06.660 --> 00:21:09.680 to I don't know what all, and never did go in. 460 00:21:09.730 --> 00:21:12.430 But we would hear stuff in there. And one kid 461 00:21:12.630 --> 00:21:16.089 put an old reel-to-reel recorder in there, a portable one, 462 00:21:16.750 --> 00:21:18.630 and he got some noises and things like that. This 463 00:21:18.650 --> 00:21:21.500 is back, you know, early 70s. So it had had 464 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:24.599 a reputation. But, yeah, there was a caretaker that lived 465 00:21:24.619 --> 00:21:26.579 down the hill, so we'd always park up the road 466 00:21:26.619 --> 00:21:29.000 and walk through the field to go in the back way. 467 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:31.559 But if they caught you in there, the caretaker would 468 00:21:31.579 --> 00:21:34.309 at least run you off, if not call the Knox 469 00:21:34.369 --> 00:21:36.130 County Sheriff's Department to get you out of there. 470 00:21:36.779 --> 00:21:40.259 Yeah, the other thing about my family is I grew 471 00:21:40.279 --> 00:21:42.900 up hearing ghost stories that they had happened to them. 472 00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:46.039 And my grandma, I was their 10th kid to raise. 473 00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:50.180 So they had nine kids. And they had lived in 474 00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:52.240 this house when they first moved to the Nashville area. 475 00:21:52.819 --> 00:21:55.440 My family's up from Indiana. And when they first moved 476 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:58.259 down here, they lived in this haunted house. And it 477 00:21:58.299 --> 00:22:01.460 was an older lady spirit who would come and tuck 478 00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:03.890 them in at night. And they had so many kids that, 479 00:22:04.130 --> 00:22:05.650 you know, like three of the girls would sleep in 480 00:22:05.670 --> 00:22:08.450 the same bed together. And, um, I've heard plenty of 481 00:22:08.470 --> 00:22:10.309 stories of this older lady who would come sit at 482 00:22:10.329 --> 00:22:13.049 the edge of the bed and she would, uh, pull 483 00:22:13.069 --> 00:22:14.490 the covers up on them and tuck them in on 484 00:22:14.529 --> 00:22:18.069 like cold nights. And, uh, and many experiences like that. 485 00:22:18.109 --> 00:22:20.769 And then one of my aunts, uh, who's passed away 486 00:22:20.789 --> 00:22:23.319 a few years ago, she had to be some kind 487 00:22:23.339 --> 00:22:26.279 of like green witch without knowing it because the lady, 488 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:28.279 she could take a dead plant and bring it back 489 00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:31.279 to life. And, uh, she would not wear shoes unless 490 00:22:31.299 --> 00:22:32.920 she absolutely had to. I don't care what time of 491 00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:34.420 year it was. She wanted to be in contact with 492 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:37.539 the ground barefoot. And there could not be a cloud 493 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:40.640 in the sky. It could be a blue sunny day. 494 00:22:40.859 --> 00:22:41.799 And if she told you it was going to rain, 495 00:22:41.819 --> 00:22:44.140 you better go roll your windows up. Um, because she 496 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:47.049 was just that in tune with nature and those types 497 00:22:47.089 --> 00:22:50.150 of things. And just an amazing lady to pick her brain, 498 00:22:50.190 --> 00:22:51.670 but she just loved nature and had to be in 499 00:22:51.710 --> 00:22:53.349 contact with it all the time and always had all 500 00:22:53.369 --> 00:22:56.289 these house plants around and, you know, just a green, 501 00:22:56.329 --> 00:23:00.099 the greenest thumb I've ever seen. And so even though 502 00:23:00.130 --> 00:23:02.579 my family never wanted to label, you know, what the 503 00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:05.829 thing we can do, um, they never had any problems 504 00:23:05.849 --> 00:23:07.369 talking about it. And I think a lot of people 505 00:23:07.410 --> 00:23:10.869 get taught out of things like that because when their 506 00:23:10.890 --> 00:23:12.990 kids are just told, Oh, that's your imagination. Or, you know, 507 00:23:13.009 --> 00:23:15.029 if they have an imaginary friend that maybe not is 508 00:23:15.089 --> 00:23:18.019 so imaginary, they get told, Oh, that's just your imaginary friend, 509 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:21.680 you know, and maybe because the parents don't believe in 510 00:23:22.220 --> 00:23:24.660 the paranormal or any of that, or they're maybe scared 511 00:23:24.700 --> 00:23:26.000 of it, you know, or they don't know how to 512 00:23:26.019 --> 00:23:27.799 explain it to their kids. So they just teach them 513 00:23:27.859 --> 00:23:30.160 out of it. But I think the empath stuff, I 514 00:23:30.180 --> 00:23:33.799 think a lot of that people, I think we're inherently 515 00:23:33.900 --> 00:23:36.960 born with that. Most people are. And like I said, 516 00:23:36.980 --> 00:23:38.920 they're just taught to ignore it and not listen to it. 517 00:23:40.299 --> 00:23:42.980 Yeah, I believe it's educated out of us to a degree. 518 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:46.509 And then also a lot of our diet and the 519 00:23:46.549 --> 00:23:48.170 things we put in our bodies can have to do 520 00:23:48.210 --> 00:23:50.390 with that. Like, you know, there was a big push 521 00:23:50.490 --> 00:23:52.910 when I was a kid, fluoride. That was going to 522 00:23:52.950 --> 00:23:55.809 save everybody's teeth. So it was in the toothpaste, it 523 00:23:55.829 --> 00:23:58.490 was in the water. Well, they found out that it 524 00:23:58.609 --> 00:24:02.000 calcifies the pineal gland, which is the seat of the 525 00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:05.130 third eye. where a lot of those type powers, if 526 00:24:05.170 --> 00:24:07.329 you believe in that side of things, that's where it 527 00:24:07.369 --> 00:24:10.369 comes from. So if you've calcified that and it's coded over, 528 00:24:10.390 --> 00:24:14.089 then no, you're not going to experience things. So is 529 00:24:14.130 --> 00:24:17.630 that some kind of conspiracy to keep everybody dumb and 530 00:24:18.769 --> 00:24:25.519 sheep with their heads in the sand ostrich like? I'll 531 00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:29.660 get there in a minute. But I don't know. And yeah, 532 00:24:29.740 --> 00:24:32.400 it was nice having her side of the family because 533 00:24:33.289 --> 00:24:36.049 but they regularly held seances and they did a table 534 00:24:36.069 --> 00:24:37.269 tapping or table tipping. 535 00:24:37.809 --> 00:24:38.069 Yeah. 536 00:24:38.410 --> 00:24:41.410 My granny considered herself, she called herself a gypsy witch, 537 00:24:41.569 --> 00:24:43.910 but I don't know where the gypsy part came in 538 00:24:43.930 --> 00:24:46.380 because she was born in the Cades Cove area, the Smokies. 539 00:24:47.150 --> 00:24:49.660 But I'm thinking somewhere back in there, there was some 540 00:24:49.859 --> 00:24:51.339 old country that they were from. 541 00:24:51.940 --> 00:24:52.180 Yeah. 542 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:54.180 Like I said, that it was just fun for them. 543 00:24:54.220 --> 00:24:56.480 That was their normal. They didn't think about it being 544 00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:59.009 weird or that, Other families didn't do it. You know, 545 00:24:59.049 --> 00:25:02.150 they grew up isolated out in a rural lot of farm. 546 00:25:02.210 --> 00:25:05.390 They had a dairy farm and they also a truck farm. 547 00:25:05.430 --> 00:25:10.759 They raised produce and tobacco and also some livestock, pigs 548 00:25:10.859 --> 00:25:15.099 and things like that. But, you know, they didn't, it 549 00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:18.410 wasn't something that you talked about at school or so much, 550 00:25:18.450 --> 00:25:21.809 but it was an open secret. And my dad talked 551 00:25:21.849 --> 00:25:23.730 about when he and my mom first got married in 552 00:25:23.750 --> 00:25:27.130 the forties, one of the first times, uh, He went 553 00:25:27.430 --> 00:25:30.910 to visit her folks. They were having a seance. And 554 00:25:30.950 --> 00:25:34.160 he sat in and watched that and then watched the 555 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:37.460 table tipping. And he said that they sounded like a 556 00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:40.799 bunch of heathens, he said, hollering and going on. But 557 00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:43.099 he said, you know, I was already, I had my 558 00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:45.369 degrees and stuff from University of Tennessee. So he said, 559 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:48.470 I'm looking around, I'm checking the angles. Nobody had the 560 00:25:49.170 --> 00:25:51.890 toe of their boot under the table leg or nobody 561 00:25:51.930 --> 00:25:54.150 had a ruler up their sleeve or any of the 562 00:25:54.210 --> 00:25:58.099 tricks that I've seen. like in magic books and things 563 00:25:58.140 --> 00:26:02.109 like table magic to create those illusions. He said there 564 00:26:02.150 --> 00:26:05.849 was nothing like that at all. And he talked about 565 00:26:05.869 --> 00:26:08.410 they would put stuff up on the table. One time 566 00:26:08.450 --> 00:26:10.970 they put a couple of the grandkids up there and 567 00:26:10.990 --> 00:26:13.089 they were still rise, table rise. And he said that 568 00:26:13.150 --> 00:26:16.099 old wooden farm table was doing everything. He said it 569 00:26:16.140 --> 00:26:18.920 was creaking and groaning and trying its best to raise 570 00:26:18.980 --> 00:26:21.039 up off the ground with all that added weight on there. 571 00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:23.299 But there's something to all that. And I don't know 572 00:26:23.339 --> 00:26:27.240 if it's a manifestation of some sort of, psychokinetic abilities 573 00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:30.980 or if it's truly something supernatural, just file that one 574 00:26:31.019 --> 00:26:32.579 in the, the, I don't know file. 575 00:26:32.859 --> 00:26:35.460 Yeah. You know, I was skeptical of table tipping and 576 00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:37.619 that type of stuff and I'd seen it done, but 577 00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:42.069 I'd never participated until last summer in Gettysburg. And of 578 00:26:42.130 --> 00:26:44.089 course you hang out with Cisco Murdoch, you're going to 579 00:26:44.109 --> 00:26:47.049 do spooky things, which is awesome. I'm not complaining. 580 00:26:47.210 --> 00:26:48.529 Absolutely. Absolutely. 581 00:26:49.069 --> 00:26:51.309 And, and I got to take part in a table 582 00:26:51.349 --> 00:26:54.440 tipping with her and a few other people. And it 583 00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:56.970 was one of the most amazing paranormal experiences I ever had. 584 00:26:57.490 --> 00:27:00.549 And it's hard to explain, but you could just feel 585 00:27:00.589 --> 00:27:03.789 the energy and to have a bunch of people who 586 00:27:03.809 --> 00:27:07.950 were empathic. And there was even a medium sitting with us. 587 00:27:08.690 --> 00:27:13.210 And it was, it was incredible. One of the biggest 588 00:27:13.250 --> 00:27:16.410 things that just, for one, nobody's moving this table. Like 589 00:27:16.430 --> 00:27:18.240 you could just tell, I mean, you can look at people, 590 00:27:18.259 --> 00:27:19.799 the people's fingers on there. You can tell they're not 591 00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:22.269 pressing the table down and things like that. But also the, 592 00:27:23.150 --> 00:27:25.049 there was kind of some negative energy that came in 593 00:27:25.069 --> 00:27:27.089 that we all felt. And the lady that was the 594 00:27:27.130 --> 00:27:29.690 medium that was sitting there, she did something I've never 595 00:27:29.730 --> 00:27:34.480 seen before. And, but you could feel it. And she said, okay, 596 00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:37.000 I'll take care of this energy. She swirled her hand 597 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:40.339 around the table with her eyes closed. And then she 598 00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:43.839 pulled the energy off the table and you could just, 599 00:27:43.900 --> 00:27:46.420 I'm getting goosebumps talking about it. Actually, you could just 600 00:27:46.519 --> 00:27:47.579 feel that energy go. 601 00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:50.500 Give me goosebumps listening to it. I've never seen anything 602 00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:53.700 like that either, but that, yeah, Sounds incredible. 603 00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:58.359 Yeah. Yeah. And to just be also because with being 604 00:27:58.380 --> 00:28:00.480 an empath for so many years, I didn't talk to 605 00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:03.269 about any, I didn't talk about it to anybody. And 606 00:28:03.349 --> 00:28:05.809 so the past four or five years, especially with the podcast, 607 00:28:06.190 --> 00:28:07.769 I just become way more honest with it. This is 608 00:28:07.809 --> 00:28:10.170 who I am. You can think I'm weird, crazy, whatever, 609 00:28:10.230 --> 00:28:12.069 but this is who I am. And I have these 610 00:28:12.130 --> 00:28:14.559 experiences all the time. And so to be in a 611 00:28:14.599 --> 00:28:19.000 circle of people who were completely nonjudgmental and then asking 612 00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:22.299 me what I felt about, from the spirit and, and 613 00:28:22.619 --> 00:28:24.859 saying out loud and then having everybody agree, Oh, that's 614 00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:27.700 what we feel too, you know, was incredible. But to 615 00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:33.029 have that medium do that and to feel that, that 616 00:28:33.329 --> 00:28:35.950 negative energy pressure just go away when she did, that 617 00:28:35.990 --> 00:28:38.890 was incredible. And it was just incredible experience, the whole 618 00:28:38.930 --> 00:28:41.650 table tipping thing. And then there was another thing that 619 00:28:41.710 --> 00:28:44.970 we Cisco wanted to cleanse us all. And I believe in, 620 00:28:45.170 --> 00:28:47.099 in saging and things like that. And I have a 621 00:28:47.299 --> 00:28:52.279 native American ancestry and, And so we, um, we actually 622 00:28:52.299 --> 00:28:55.339 went and ate breakfast and Cisco doesn't waste anything. She'll 623 00:28:55.380 --> 00:28:57.339 take it and feed it to the birds and animals. Right. 624 00:28:57.539 --> 00:29:00.779 So she had these pancakes and stuff that she took. And, uh, 625 00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:02.700 I think to the detriment of her son, cause I 626 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:05.750 think he wanted to eat the pancakes, but she took 627 00:29:05.769 --> 00:29:08.769 it from tone. But, uh, anyway, uh, she went out 628 00:29:08.809 --> 00:29:10.529 back in the parking lot of the hotel that we 629 00:29:10.549 --> 00:29:13.609 were at. And, uh, they have all these medians with 630 00:29:13.630 --> 00:29:17.700 these trees, with these maple trees and, This is in 631 00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:19.740 the middle of summer, and it's in July, and there's 632 00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:22.089 kind of a drought going on. And so some of 633 00:29:22.109 --> 00:29:25.269 the trees were looking brown and not so healthy. But 634 00:29:25.329 --> 00:29:29.049 she let the birds guide her to the strongest tree 635 00:29:29.170 --> 00:29:31.349 because she said that tree would take all the negative 636 00:29:31.390 --> 00:29:35.710 energy from us, and that tree would be strong enough. Well, 637 00:29:35.930 --> 00:29:38.430 what what we didn't notice until after we were done 638 00:29:38.470 --> 00:29:40.119 with the whole thing and they're about i think there 639 00:29:40.150 --> 00:29:43.039 are six or seven of us that were standing barefoot 640 00:29:43.059 --> 00:29:46.440 around this tree and getting cleansed by cisco and and 641 00:29:46.460 --> 00:29:47.960 when we got done we went back up to the 642 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:52.200 hotel there's kind of a back patio area that's kind 643 00:29:52.220 --> 00:29:56.460 of raised off the ground about 20 feet and we're 644 00:29:56.480 --> 00:29:59.900 standing up there and my husband roger who's a landscaper 645 00:30:00.730 --> 00:30:03.309 pointed out to Cisco, he said, look out here and 646 00:30:03.349 --> 00:30:05.650 look at all these trees. What's different about the one 647 00:30:05.670 --> 00:30:09.109 that we went to? And it took her a minute 648 00:30:09.130 --> 00:30:12.059 and she said, it's the greenest one. And he said, 649 00:30:12.470 --> 00:30:17.259 you picked the healthiest tree in this parking lot. And 650 00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:19.059 she's like, oh no, it wasn't me. It was the birds. 651 00:30:20.099 --> 00:30:21.619 And the birds, when they took the food from her 652 00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:23.839 on the ground, they flew into this particular tree and 653 00:30:23.859 --> 00:30:27.789 it ended up being the greenest, healthiest tree during this drought. 654 00:30:28.269 --> 00:30:30.049 All the rest of them were kind of looking brown 655 00:30:30.130 --> 00:30:33.869 and you know, sad. And I thought that was an 656 00:30:33.890 --> 00:30:34.990 amazing experience as well. 657 00:30:36.690 --> 00:30:40.710 And animals have tuition, intuition and things about that. I mean, 658 00:30:40.910 --> 00:30:42.970 they have to, that's how they survive, but you've got, 659 00:30:43.490 --> 00:30:47.339 you know, homing pigeons, you've got a migrating fowl and 660 00:30:47.380 --> 00:30:51.599 things that follow the same migration path generation after generation. 661 00:30:51.640 --> 00:30:55.200 You've got bats that use sonar. And I think there's 662 00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:58.750 animals have a lot of intuition and some people, And 663 00:30:58.829 --> 00:31:03.019 you believe that animals can sense spirits and disturbances in 664 00:31:03.059 --> 00:31:05.059 the supernatural. What's your take on that? 665 00:31:06.180 --> 00:31:09.079 Yeah, I think it has a lot to do with 666 00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:16.220 their perception of the world is different than ours. Because 667 00:31:16.339 --> 00:31:23.559 animals are still in contact with nature and their instinctual side. 668 00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:25.920 To where I think us humans have gotten away from 669 00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:28.720 that a lot. And so for like a dog or 670 00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:30.799 a cat, you know, for the most part, they're listening 671 00:31:30.819 --> 00:31:33.349 to their instincts for things they do throughout their daily lives. 672 00:31:33.940 --> 00:31:36.730 They're not necessarily, yeah, we train them and they're domesticated. 673 00:31:38.369 --> 00:31:40.750 And I also think that they've proven that a lot 674 00:31:40.789 --> 00:31:43.630 of animals see in a different spectrum than we do. 675 00:31:44.210 --> 00:31:46.339 So if you believe that, you know, spirits can show 676 00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:50.259 up in an infrared spectrum or something like that, there 677 00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:52.319 are a lot of animals that can see in full spectrum. 678 00:31:52.339 --> 00:31:55.660 So UV, infrared, all that. So they may be seeing things. 679 00:31:55.700 --> 00:31:57.880 They can see in the dark. They're already ahead of me. 680 00:31:57.980 --> 00:32:00.380 So there you go. And that makes sense. And I 681 00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:04.529 believe a lot of these creatures, uh, and, and entities, 682 00:32:04.609 --> 00:32:07.619 if you will, uh, do either vibrate at a higher 683 00:32:07.750 --> 00:32:10.430 or lower frequency. And again, if you look at that 684 00:32:10.490 --> 00:32:12.630 light spectrum, there's just a little bit in the middle 685 00:32:12.670 --> 00:32:14.890 there that's visible to us. And then you've got everything 686 00:32:14.930 --> 00:32:19.240 on the other ends. And, uh, Who's to say? Maybe 687 00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:22.500 those create Bigfoot or cryptids and things like that. Maybe 688 00:32:22.539 --> 00:32:24.920 they know how to manipulate that, that that's part of 689 00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:28.619 their genetic makeup that they can cause themselves to vibrate 690 00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:32.380 at a higher or lower frequency and will. And that's 691 00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:36.720 sort of a natural cloaking thing. I'm open to anything 692 00:32:36.819 --> 00:32:39.599 at this point. I don't discount anything. I stopped looking 693 00:32:39.619 --> 00:32:42.240 for the answers a long, long time ago. Now I'm 694 00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:44.460 just looking for the next set of questions. There are 695 00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:48.200 no answers. And if we had the answers... my journey 696 00:32:48.279 --> 00:32:50.799 wouldn't have been half as interesting as it has been. 697 00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:51.460 Right. 698 00:32:52.180 --> 00:32:52.480 Right. 699 00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:55.750 And talking about frequencies, I mean, if you look at 700 00:32:55.769 --> 00:32:59.829 it scientifically, everything's on a frequency. So, I mean, all 701 00:32:59.849 --> 00:33:04.049 your different, everything's a radio wave, you know, lights on 702 00:33:04.089 --> 00:33:07.799 a wave, everything is on a vibration frequency or wave. 703 00:33:08.380 --> 00:33:10.319 And even down to the atomic level, that makes up 704 00:33:10.420 --> 00:33:15.170 everything that you touch and everything that's physical is Those 705 00:33:15.329 --> 00:33:18.170 atoms are constantly moving and vibrating. You have electrons constantly 706 00:33:18.190 --> 00:33:21.349 moving and vibrating. And so everything's on a vibration and 707 00:33:21.369 --> 00:33:22.390 on a wave. 708 00:33:22.430 --> 00:33:26.480 The Schumann resonance, the very vibration of the earth is 709 00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:31.720 a certain frequency. And everything vibrates for every living thing anyway. 710 00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:33.819 And I think a lot of inanimate stuff does too, 711 00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:36.900 rocks and things. I mean, look at quartz, for example. 712 00:33:37.700 --> 00:33:40.210 You can take quartz and make a radio out of it. 713 00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:42.740 I did that when I was in Cub Scouts. We 714 00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:45.200 took a chunk of quartz and some copper wire and 715 00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:50.200 I think like an oatmeal box and some little earphone 716 00:33:50.259 --> 00:33:52.960 from back in the day. And, you know, you put 717 00:33:53.009 --> 00:33:55.190 it together, right? You can move that. I think it 718 00:33:55.210 --> 00:33:57.450 was a thumbtack over a razor blade or something. It 719 00:33:57.490 --> 00:34:00.690 was very rudimentary. But you could pick up radio signals 720 00:34:01.230 --> 00:34:05.119 using that quartz. And again, a lot of watches have 721 00:34:05.140 --> 00:34:07.599 a quartz movement in them. So there's something to all that. 722 00:34:07.980 --> 00:34:10.699 And then that gets into stone tape theory. as far 723 00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:13.369 as hauntings and things like that, the ones that seem 724 00:34:13.389 --> 00:34:16.010 to just repeat. I think it's like a tape loop. 725 00:34:16.449 --> 00:34:19.289 When you think about tape, like an audio tape or 726 00:34:19.309 --> 00:34:22.969 a video tape, that's just a piece of mylar with 727 00:34:23.820 --> 00:34:26.860 ions on there, with iron oxide, I think it is. 728 00:34:26.940 --> 00:34:30.860 It's some sort of ferrous oxide, which is iron, I believe. 729 00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:34.639 But again, what's to say that something in nature, under 730 00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:39.179 the right weather and other conditions, can't capture that? And 731 00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:42.650 then also under similar conditions, play it back in a 732 00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:44.360 way that we can see it or hear it or 733 00:34:44.409 --> 00:34:44.969 experience it. 734 00:34:45.949 --> 00:34:48.369 Yeah. And like you're saying, that's just, it's just magnetically 735 00:34:48.510 --> 00:34:51.849 recorded onto that tape. And so, you know, when you 736 00:34:51.869 --> 00:34:56.110 put it in a VCR, it's just reading that different 737 00:34:56.170 --> 00:34:59.269 magnetic frequencies to make the sound and the, and the picture. 738 00:34:59.809 --> 00:35:02.130 And so, yeah, I'm with you. Why couldn't that, I mean, 739 00:35:02.190 --> 00:35:06.000 we're surrounded by magnetic energy all the time. I mean, 740 00:35:06.059 --> 00:35:09.739 everywhere on earth, there's slightly different magnetic fields everywhere. And 741 00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:14.460 in radio waves and all that, that's all the same there. 742 00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:18.599 It's electromagnetic field. Radio waves are all the same. It's 743 00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:22.889 they're just different frequencies of the same wavelengths. And so, um, yeah, 744 00:35:22.949 --> 00:35:25.769 I completely agree that it can be recorded in the environment. 745 00:35:25.809 --> 00:35:28.909 Like you were saying with quartz movements and watches and things. 746 00:35:28.989 --> 00:35:30.949 And we know that, that crystals like that can hold 747 00:35:31.050 --> 00:35:34.329 energy and release it. And so, yeah, if the conditions 748 00:35:34.389 --> 00:35:36.130 are just right and you've got a lot of quartz 749 00:35:36.750 --> 00:35:39.030 or any other kind of crystals in the, in the ground, 750 00:35:39.710 --> 00:35:42.349 or like running water, even as a thing with people 751 00:35:42.389 --> 00:35:44.809 think that, uh, the ionization of the running water under 752 00:35:44.849 --> 00:35:48.110 the ground, uh, because it also changes the magnetic field 753 00:35:48.630 --> 00:35:51.219 of that area with the running water that, uh, that 754 00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:53.980 is very conducive to stone tape theory as well. And 755 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:57.900 then a lot of older houses are built on, uh, 756 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:00.260 granite foundations and things like that, that have a lot 757 00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:03.690 of courts in them. And so, um, just with the, 758 00:36:03.730 --> 00:36:06.889 you know, that maybe the vibrations and the resonance through 759 00:36:06.909 --> 00:36:09.500 the wood of that house over the years, uh, you 760 00:36:09.539 --> 00:36:13.460 get that recording on those crystals and that energy records 761 00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:15.820 and then it just replays. So it might be something 762 00:36:15.860 --> 00:36:18.969 as simple as grandpa came in the back door every 763 00:36:18.989 --> 00:36:21.670 day after work and went up the stairs to change. 764 00:36:22.289 --> 00:36:24.769 And so he did that for 40 years, you know? 765 00:36:24.909 --> 00:36:27.889 So then when he's gone, maybe when the conditions are right, 766 00:36:27.989 --> 00:36:30.769 that sound replays or maybe even the image of him 767 00:36:30.809 --> 00:36:33.849 doing it replays, but it's not anything intelligent that, you know, 768 00:36:33.869 --> 00:36:35.369 it's going to do it whether you're there or not 769 00:36:35.469 --> 00:36:36.789 like a movie. Right. 770 00:36:38.190 --> 00:36:42.760 And I saw a study in some kind of paranormal magazine. 771 00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:45.159 I can't remember where it might have been 14 times. 772 00:36:45.739 --> 00:36:49.179 But it talked about the construction of the old railroad beds, 773 00:36:49.260 --> 00:36:51.719 the way that they used the crushed gravel, then the 774 00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:54.710 ties and the rails and everything. It had a breakdown 775 00:36:54.750 --> 00:36:57.349 of the layers, what goes in there. And this person 776 00:36:57.369 --> 00:37:02.010 was pontificating that that could be what produces the phantom 777 00:37:02.090 --> 00:37:04.869 trains that people see where they see the train or 778 00:37:04.889 --> 00:37:08.010 they hear the train when there is no train. Sometimes 779 00:37:08.030 --> 00:37:11.289 the rails are gone, but that rail bed is still 780 00:37:11.309 --> 00:37:14.500 there and crushed granite was a component of a lot 781 00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:17.920 of it. So there you go. Is that stone type, uh, 782 00:37:17.980 --> 00:37:20.280 type thing? I think it could be. Yeah. 783 00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:23.320 Yeah. Um, one of the things that you're talking about, um, 784 00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:26.139 building a radio, I saw this video not so long 785 00:37:26.179 --> 00:37:29.730 ago that they were showing how powerful AM radio antennas 786 00:37:29.789 --> 00:37:33.409 are and, um, why you should never like hop a 787 00:37:33.469 --> 00:37:37.449 fence into a radio antenna, uh, And the supports, the 788 00:37:37.469 --> 00:37:40.550 big metal steel cable supports that come down into the ground, 789 00:37:41.309 --> 00:37:43.159 they have to, when they get the technicians going there 790 00:37:43.179 --> 00:37:45.920 to work on something, they have to ground themselves to it. 791 00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:49.039 And all the guy did was he took and put 792 00:37:49.139 --> 00:37:52.219 the grounding cable that he was going to, it's like 793 00:37:52.260 --> 00:37:53.800 a clip that he was going to attach to it. 794 00:37:54.610 --> 00:37:59.309 And a spark of electricity jumped from that wire to 795 00:37:59.389 --> 00:38:02.110 that grounding cable. And when it did, you could hear 796 00:38:02.130 --> 00:38:05.630 the radio station through the air. Wow. How crazy is that? 797 00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:08.239 Well, that's where you hear about people that have had 798 00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:11.340 dental work done, particularly with fillings and things like that, 799 00:38:11.619 --> 00:38:13.420 where they can stand in a certain area of their house, 800 00:38:13.539 --> 00:38:15.659 turn their head a certain way and hear the radio 801 00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:17.820 in their teeth. I've heard of this. 802 00:38:18.380 --> 00:38:20.139 Yeah. And this was just from, and you could see 803 00:38:20.179 --> 00:38:23.159 a big spark of electricity jumping. And it was just 804 00:38:23.239 --> 00:38:26.760 from that vibration of that spark in the air, moving 805 00:38:26.780 --> 00:38:29.199 the air molecules that caused you to hear the radio 806 00:38:29.219 --> 00:38:33.929 voice clear. And so people, and you know, and I 807 00:38:33.969 --> 00:38:36.250 say that because people want to, well, how do ghosts, 808 00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:40.940 How do spirits make sound without vocal cords, right? They 809 00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:43.460 don't have a physical body. Well, it's just air movement. 810 00:38:43.659 --> 00:38:46.780 All our vocal cords do is change the air passing 811 00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:48.650 through and make a certain sound. It's just like whistling. 812 00:38:48.769 --> 00:38:51.389 And that's the way we hear. Yeah. The air passing 813 00:38:51.449 --> 00:38:55.369 over the eardrum makes those different frequencies and vibrations. So 814 00:38:55.389 --> 00:38:58.130 that makes a lot of sense. And then these days 815 00:38:58.190 --> 00:39:01.610 we're bombarded with so many radio frequencies, you know, with 816 00:39:01.630 --> 00:39:05.179 the advent of 5G and the cell towers and all that. 817 00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:10.699 I think it's a detrimental effect to some degree. Because 818 00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:13.559 I notice, and I try to say this delicately, but 819 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:15.940 people aren't getting any smarter, that's for sure. 820 00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:20.829 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and there has to be some sort 821 00:39:20.869 --> 00:39:22.909 of effect, like you're saying, with all these. Because we're 822 00:39:22.929 --> 00:39:25.969 in Bombardier with so many radio waves. And people have 823 00:39:25.989 --> 00:39:27.750 to understand that radio waves, when they come out of 824 00:39:27.769 --> 00:39:30.000 those towers, like for a cell phone and stuff, they 825 00:39:30.019 --> 00:39:32.300 don't come out in like a linear straight line. They 826 00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:36.159 go out in 360 degree direction and your, your cell 827 00:39:36.179 --> 00:39:38.619 phone is a giant antenna that just happens to capture 828 00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:41.170 that signal. And it's the same thing with your car antenna, 829 00:39:41.690 --> 00:39:44.809 you know, radio station is putting out this huge bubble 830 00:39:45.570 --> 00:39:46.369 of 360 degree radio waves and. 831 00:39:48.300 --> 00:39:52.500 And an AM station, I think they're mandated by the FCC. 832 00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:55.989 They can broadcast at a maximum, I believe it's 50,000 watts. 833 00:39:56.050 --> 00:39:58.489 That's a lot of energy that's being just put out 834 00:39:58.530 --> 00:40:02.030 into the air. And those radio waves, the propagation of them, 835 00:40:02.050 --> 00:40:04.469 I've studied some of that where they bounce off the 836 00:40:04.510 --> 00:40:07.670 ionosphere and things. That's how even at night when those 837 00:40:07.690 --> 00:40:10.570 stations have to turn down. I could listen to WOR 838 00:40:11.250 --> 00:40:13.969 in New York when I was a kid in East Tennessee. 839 00:40:13.989 --> 00:40:15.659 It was a cloudy night. 840 00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:17.239 That's just amazing. 841 00:40:17.909 --> 00:40:22.190 And supposedly those signals just go on out into the unknown. 842 00:40:22.949 --> 00:40:26.360 And there's been cases where somehow they've bounced back. I 843 00:40:26.510 --> 00:40:29.619 remember reading, I think it was in a Frank Edwards 844 00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:33.199 book where a station that had been off the air 845 00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:36.079 for years and years in Texas, people were picking up 846 00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:39.369 the signals from that TV station, like in Kansas or 847 00:40:39.409 --> 00:40:42.949 somewhere like that, that didn't even exist anymore. Wow. How's 848 00:40:42.989 --> 00:40:46.010 that possible? Well, there you go. Those waves, Like when 849 00:40:46.050 --> 00:40:48.349 you throw a rock in the lake or whatever, you 850 00:40:48.369 --> 00:40:51.050 see that ripple effect. Well, that goes on. It gets 851 00:40:51.130 --> 00:40:53.769 smaller and smaller, maybe where you can't see it or 852 00:40:53.829 --> 00:40:55.699 detect it. But, you know, it goes out, it hits something, 853 00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:59.320 it bounces back, goes all different directions. And I'd never 854 00:40:59.380 --> 00:41:01.800 thought about it, but I've got a new YouTube channel 855 00:41:01.820 --> 00:41:05.960 called From Beyond where we're talking about UFOs and things 856 00:41:07.139 --> 00:41:09.420 for the most part. From Beyond can be anything, but 857 00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:12.929 our first episode, we talked about the Betty and Barney 858 00:41:12.949 --> 00:41:17.420 Hill abduction. But Lee G, my co-host over there, talked 859 00:41:17.460 --> 00:41:21.389 about that that might be a reason why people that 860 00:41:21.409 --> 00:41:24.670 have experienced the so-called men in black, why those people 861 00:41:25.309 --> 00:41:28.250 dress out of date and drive old fashioned cars and things. 862 00:41:28.670 --> 00:41:31.659 They've been picking up those signals from years ago and 863 00:41:31.699 --> 00:41:35.239 think that's how we still are here. So they wear 864 00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:37.539 suits and hats and drive old fashioned cars. And then 865 00:41:37.579 --> 00:41:40.260 when they get here, they're, you know, 20, 30 years 866 00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:42.579 out of style, they're like, What happened? We thought this 867 00:41:42.619 --> 00:41:45.519 was how people talked and dressed and acted. I had never, 868 00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:48.449 ever considered that, but that would kind of make sense if, 869 00:41:48.739 --> 00:41:50.119 if you believe in stuff like that. 870 00:41:51.579 --> 00:41:57.820 Yeah, that's an interesting theory for sure. Another, another theory 871 00:41:57.860 --> 00:42:00.340 that I've heard that I found very interesting and makes 872 00:42:00.380 --> 00:42:02.820 a lot of sense to me is from Mike Rick sucker. 873 00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:08.239 And he's a big shadow people researcher. And from a 874 00:42:09.460 --> 00:42:13.400 very early age, he had experiences with shadow people and 875 00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:15.039 he actually got touched by one, one time when he 876 00:42:15.059 --> 00:42:17.090 was a kid. And, uh, it's one of the only 877 00:42:17.110 --> 00:42:18.630 people I've ever heard that said they got touched by, 878 00:42:18.650 --> 00:42:22.530 got grabbed, grabbed his arm. But, um, so he's dove 879 00:42:22.550 --> 00:42:25.690 into research over the years or shadow people, uh, shadow figures, 880 00:42:25.710 --> 00:42:28.760 hat man, things like that. And his theory that he 881 00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:32.960 came up with is that shadow people are the same 882 00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:37.179 thing as we call spirits or ghost. It's just you, 883 00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:40.570 if you're vibrating on a certain frequency yourself, you see 884 00:42:40.590 --> 00:42:44.130 those entities as shadow figures and not as like full 885 00:42:44.150 --> 00:42:48.010 body apparitions. And so if you take 10 people and 886 00:42:48.030 --> 00:42:51.610 put them in a room and you have something manifest, 887 00:42:51.670 --> 00:42:54.050 a spirit manifest in front of you, all 10 people 888 00:42:54.070 --> 00:42:56.269 are going to have a different experience and a different description. 889 00:42:56.949 --> 00:42:59.210 Some of those people may see like a mist. Some 890 00:42:59.230 --> 00:43:01.989 people might see an actual, you know, in living color, 891 00:43:02.250 --> 00:43:05.389 full body person. Some people may see a shadow figure. 892 00:43:05.869 --> 00:43:09.389 Some people may see a glowing orb. But his theory 893 00:43:09.429 --> 00:43:12.050 is that it depends on what frequency we're vibrating on, 894 00:43:12.739 --> 00:43:15.460 how we experience the paranormal. And I found that pretty interesting. 895 00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:20.599 Yeah, Cisco and I were talking about that and we 896 00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:23.940 likened it to the parable of the blind men and 897 00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:26.289 the elephant. One guy says, you know, what's got a trunk? 898 00:43:26.409 --> 00:43:28.730 And the guy on the other side says, no, it's 899 00:43:28.829 --> 00:43:29.710 flat on the side. 900 00:43:30.230 --> 00:43:30.329 Yeah. 901 00:43:30.369 --> 00:43:33.210 And the back says it's got a long tail. You know, 902 00:43:33.230 --> 00:43:33.610 so again. 903 00:43:33.789 --> 00:43:33.969 Yeah. 904 00:43:35.210 --> 00:43:38.300 Same people experienced the same thing, but perceived it in 905 00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:41.599 different ways, whether, you know, their ability or just what 906 00:43:41.639 --> 00:43:44.880 they were perceiving there. And it's neither right or wrong. 907 00:43:45.019 --> 00:43:48.340 Everybody experienced the same thing, but it affected them differently 908 00:43:48.420 --> 00:43:51.469 based on their senses and their knowledge of such. 909 00:43:51.989 --> 00:43:54.230 Yeah. Yeah. And then going to like the men in 910 00:43:54.269 --> 00:43:58.010 black or even like black eyed kids, you know, only 911 00:43:58.030 --> 00:44:02.659 a small percentage of people ever experienced those phenomenons. and 912 00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:07.309 maybe it's because of their frequency or their openness or, 913 00:44:07.510 --> 00:44:10.269 you know what I'm saying? Like that's why not everybody 914 00:44:10.590 --> 00:44:13.510 has experiences with men in black or black eye kids 915 00:44:13.550 --> 00:44:15.570 or some of the other phenomena. Like I may go 916 00:44:15.590 --> 00:44:17.150 through my entire life. I could be out in the 917 00:44:17.170 --> 00:44:19.750 woods every day, or even all these hunters can be 918 00:44:19.769 --> 00:44:21.489 out in the woods and you only have one or 919 00:44:21.530 --> 00:44:24.489 two that ever experienced dog men or Sasquatch out of 920 00:44:24.650 --> 00:44:28.650 thousands and thousands of people. And so I think there 921 00:44:28.690 --> 00:44:32.719 could be something about that frequency, um, And maybe you're 922 00:44:32.739 --> 00:44:34.579 vibrating on a frequency where they can see you too. 923 00:44:35.739 --> 00:44:37.559 I think that's interesting with spirits as well. 924 00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:41.789 I like to quote Nietzsche who said, when you appear 925 00:44:41.809 --> 00:44:45.550 into the abyss, the abyss also appears into you. And 926 00:44:45.769 --> 00:44:49.030 I believe that with the paranormal. And I think somebody's 927 00:44:49.090 --> 00:44:51.710 asked me, why did you choose all these things to 928 00:44:51.769 --> 00:44:54.969 talk about and write about and stuff? I'm like, who's 929 00:44:55.010 --> 00:44:57.239 to say it was a choice? I think it chose me. 930 00:44:57.739 --> 00:45:01.119 Like every house I've ever lived in was haunted to 931 00:45:01.139 --> 00:45:04.070 some degree. And I only came to the realization a 932 00:45:04.230 --> 00:45:06.949 few years ago that it's not the houses, it's me 933 00:45:07.010 --> 00:45:09.469 that's haunted. Because I could go to a place I 934 00:45:09.510 --> 00:45:13.250 lived in, Las Vegas, very, very active haunted house. But 935 00:45:13.409 --> 00:45:16.070 a roommate that I shared that with, they'd been there 936 00:45:16.139 --> 00:45:19.619 for years, never heard or seen or felt anything. And 937 00:45:19.639 --> 00:45:22.199 then as soon as I got there, literally all hell 938 00:45:22.219 --> 00:45:26.079 broke loose. It's something about me being there and able 939 00:45:26.119 --> 00:45:29.760 to perceive it. And Cisco describes that as part of 940 00:45:29.780 --> 00:45:33.690 being empathic. That it's like a candle in the darkness 941 00:45:33.710 --> 00:45:36.789 that these things see you and think, oh, this person 942 00:45:36.829 --> 00:45:39.280 can notice us or hear us or see us. So 943 00:45:39.409 --> 00:45:43.420 let's go talk to them or manifest. And getting back 944 00:45:43.460 --> 00:45:47.579 to the energy and electricity thing. And you've probably had 945 00:45:47.619 --> 00:45:51.579 this happen in some of your investigations. Whatever these things are, 946 00:45:51.619 --> 00:45:55.519 the active ones, not the residual hauntings, but the active hauntings, 947 00:45:56.059 --> 00:45:59.039 they have to have that energy to do what they do, 948 00:45:59.079 --> 00:45:59.519 whether it's. 949 00:45:59.820 --> 00:45:59.980 Yeah. 950 00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:06.539 Or manifest or whatever, hence batteries. I've had batteries fully 951 00:46:06.599 --> 00:46:10.019 charged that never gave me a problem anywhere else going 952 00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:13.719 to a place that has activity, and those batteries are 953 00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:16.510 just flatlined in no time, and I think it's whatever's 954 00:46:16.590 --> 00:46:19.909 in there, it needs that energy to put on its show, 955 00:46:19.969 --> 00:46:22.170 whatever it's going to do. Has that happened in your 956 00:46:22.190 --> 00:46:23.010 experience as well? 957 00:46:23.869 --> 00:46:28.590 Yeah, actually, not too long ago, I was at Brushy Mountain. uh, state, uh, 958 00:46:28.670 --> 00:46:32.449 state penitentiary in Petros, Tennessee. And we have that happen. 959 00:46:32.530 --> 00:46:35.670 And I actually watched a camera battery that I just 960 00:46:35.690 --> 00:46:37.219 put in the camera that I knew was full and 961 00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:41.400 it showed full. It jumped down to half for about 962 00:46:41.460 --> 00:46:43.219 five minutes. And then it jumped down like it was 963 00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:45.559 going to die, but then it jumped back up to 964 00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:48.400 like three quarters. And I'm like, I've never seen it 965 00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:49.199 jump back up. 966 00:46:49.619 --> 00:46:52.090 Yeah. No, that, that is anomalous. It's not supposed to 967 00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:53.409 do that, but it did. 968 00:46:53.449 --> 00:46:58.389 Yeah. Um, and we got at that same time, um, 969 00:46:58.570 --> 00:47:01.139 I was actually got some anomalous pictures and we got 970 00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:04.239 some EVPs during that same, same time that that was happening. 971 00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:07.159 And it was, we had battery issues all night and 972 00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:08.639 there's other places I can go that we don't have 973 00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:11.679 any battery issues. Um, because I guess they're drawing energy 974 00:47:11.719 --> 00:47:14.250 from somewhere else or I don't know. Uh, one of 975 00:47:14.269 --> 00:47:17.510 the experiments that I like to do, um, whenever I 976 00:47:17.550 --> 00:47:20.050 do public ghost hunts, uh, throughout the year, we do 977 00:47:20.070 --> 00:47:23.869 something called a round table EVP session. And what we 978 00:47:23.889 --> 00:47:26.880 do is I'll have, uh, As the investigator, I might 979 00:47:26.920 --> 00:47:28.820 have 10 people in my group. Depends on how many people, 980 00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:33.389 you know, buy tickets to the public ghost hunt. But 981 00:47:33.429 --> 00:47:35.869 we'll sit around a recorder in the middle of us 982 00:47:36.349 --> 00:47:38.909 and we'll decide on one question to ask. And we 983 00:47:38.969 --> 00:47:42.170 all ask the same question. So I tell everybody, okay, 984 00:47:42.230 --> 00:47:43.800 I'm going to start. I'm going to ask the question first. 985 00:47:44.659 --> 00:47:46.900 I'm going to give it 20 seconds for them to answer. 986 00:47:47.420 --> 00:47:48.559 And then I'm going to point to the next person. 987 00:47:48.579 --> 00:47:51.199 They're going to ask the same question and then 20 988 00:47:51.199 --> 00:47:53.099 seconds and so on. And so we'll go around the room. 989 00:47:53.900 --> 00:47:57.739 And I find that it's weird because the spirits, if 990 00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:00.400 you're going to get an answer to the question, will 991 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:02.599 usually only answer one person out of the entire group. 992 00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:08.440 And I think that is from the vibration because maybe 993 00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:11.659 that person is on the same vibration as them. And 994 00:48:11.719 --> 00:48:14.309 maybe the spirit can only hear that one person. You 995 00:48:14.329 --> 00:48:16.130 know what I'm saying? 996 00:48:16.650 --> 00:48:19.210 Yeah, and that makes sense. I never thought about that, 997 00:48:19.289 --> 00:48:23.019 but it does. And that's why. some people don't get 998 00:48:23.059 --> 00:48:24.880 an answer and some people do, and you're asking the 999 00:48:24.900 --> 00:48:28.500 same question. That's a fascinating technique there. Did you come 1000 00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:29.199 up with that? 1001 00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:32.480 I did not. That is something that I was taught 1002 00:48:32.619 --> 00:48:36.579 by a paranormal group. Two of them used to work 1003 00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:40.469 at Waverly Hills as paranormal tour guides and as investigators 1004 00:48:40.489 --> 00:48:43.550 at Waverly Hills. And that was something that they used 1005 00:48:43.590 --> 00:48:45.849 to do all the time. And I thought it fit 1006 00:48:45.889 --> 00:48:50.360 perfectly into the scientific method somewhat because Um, but also, 1007 00:48:50.420 --> 00:48:52.639 I also thought maybe it's not even the frequency thing. 1008 00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:57.710 Sometimes maybe it is because a cultural beliefs of the 1009 00:48:57.750 --> 00:49:00.829 time of the spirit, or if it's like a little kid, 1010 00:49:01.829 --> 00:49:04.730 you know, I'm kind of a big dominate personality guy, 1011 00:49:05.469 --> 00:49:08.570 masculine guy. Maybe the kid feels intimidated by me, but 1012 00:49:08.590 --> 00:49:11.699 we'll talk to a female, you know, maybe they, they 1013 00:49:11.739 --> 00:49:13.360 find one of the females in the group that reminds 1014 00:49:13.380 --> 00:49:15.750 them of their mom or something. And so they'll, respond 1015 00:49:15.789 --> 00:49:21.550 to them. And, you know, back in the 1800s, it 1016 00:49:21.590 --> 00:49:24.610 was a little different, the interaction between men and women. 1017 00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:29.199 The culture was different. And so a woman spirit from 1018 00:49:29.239 --> 00:49:31.599 then may not respond to me because I'm not their 1019 00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:34.320 husband or I'm a stranger, but they may respond to 1020 00:49:34.340 --> 00:49:37.340 another female. So I've thought about kind of all these 1021 00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:40.679 different aspects of That makes sense. 1022 00:49:40.519 --> 00:49:45.019 From the societal norms at that time. Women wouldn't speak 1023 00:49:45.059 --> 00:49:46.880 to a strange man, wouldn't think of it. That was 1024 00:49:46.900 --> 00:49:47.739 just unheard of. 1025 00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:51.389 Yeah. Yeah. And also, I think that's why it's important 1026 00:49:51.409 --> 00:49:54.329 to know the history of a place as well. Because 1027 00:49:54.389 --> 00:49:57.489 if you go into some of these historical houses, men 1028 00:49:57.510 --> 00:49:59.389 and the husbands and wives did not sleep in the 1029 00:49:59.429 --> 00:50:01.929 same room. In a lot of these houses, the women 1030 00:50:01.949 --> 00:50:04.440 had their own room. So me going into that woman's 1031 00:50:04.539 --> 00:50:06.280 room and trying to get her to talk to me, 1032 00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:11.119 that's a no-no. in her eyes, because she would never 1033 00:50:11.179 --> 00:50:14.099 have a strange man in her bedroom. And so she, 1034 00:50:14.239 --> 00:50:16.260 why would she talk to me? You know, she might 1035 00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:18.340 get in trouble by her husband or whatever, because there's 1036 00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:19.820 some strange men in her room and it was just 1037 00:50:19.860 --> 00:50:22.449 not the societal norm. And so you have to be 1038 00:50:22.489 --> 00:50:25.369 conscious of those things throughout history. And even with different 1039 00:50:25.409 --> 00:50:28.190 religions and things, there are different practices. And I learned 1040 00:50:28.230 --> 00:50:31.289 this working in medicine for 20 years, especially on the ambulance, 1041 00:50:32.409 --> 00:50:35.230 like with a lot of Arab people, I would have to, 1042 00:50:35.329 --> 00:50:38.170 as a man, if I had a female patient, I 1043 00:50:38.190 --> 00:50:40.449 would have to ask the husband permission to touch his 1044 00:50:40.530 --> 00:50:44.380 wife because I'm not her husband. And so those are 1045 00:50:44.389 --> 00:50:47.159 things that I had to learn that they actually taught 1046 00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:51.099 us in college when I went to college to be 1047 00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:54.239 a medic was those type of things like be conscious 1048 00:50:54.260 --> 00:50:56.510 of different cultures and how they believe. And so I've 1049 00:50:56.590 --> 00:50:58.989 kind of traded that over into the paranormal investigating. 1050 00:50:59.809 --> 00:51:05.789 That's a good example of, real world application into paranormal investigations. 1051 00:51:05.989 --> 00:51:06.300 Love it. 1052 00:51:07.389 --> 00:51:08.670 Yeah. And I try to, I try to look at 1053 00:51:08.710 --> 00:51:12.869 it from those different standpoints. And I think that it 1054 00:51:12.929 --> 00:51:15.550 takes all of us in our different experiences in life 1055 00:51:16.090 --> 00:51:18.449 with something like just, just, you wouldn't think me working 1056 00:51:18.469 --> 00:51:21.440 on the ambulance as a medic would have any bearing on, 1057 00:51:22.179 --> 00:51:25.539 you know, paranormal investigating, but just little nuances like that 1058 00:51:25.579 --> 00:51:27.940 of experiences in my life. That's why I love like 1059 00:51:28.019 --> 00:51:30.599 on the unseen paranormal, talking to the different paranormal groups 1060 00:51:31.039 --> 00:51:33.530 as well. because everybody kind of has their own approach 1061 00:51:34.269 --> 00:51:36.210 and their own experiences in life. Cause you know, we're 1062 00:51:36.250 --> 00:51:38.949 some of our experiences, our personalities and who we are 1063 00:51:38.989 --> 00:51:42.170 as people are ultimately some of our experiences throughout our lives. 1064 00:51:42.690 --> 00:51:45.469 And so that's going to bleed over into investigating and 1065 00:51:45.530 --> 00:51:47.809 how we investigate and how we approach these things. So 1066 00:51:47.829 --> 00:51:50.630 I find it fascinating to talk to other investigators and 1067 00:51:50.690 --> 00:51:53.050 how they do things maybe just slightly different than me, 1068 00:51:53.110 --> 00:51:56.280 but it makes me think more outside the box and 1069 00:51:56.360 --> 00:52:01.460 how I can do different things like that to, illicit 1070 00:52:01.500 --> 00:52:04.099 responses from spirits and try to make that connection with them. 1071 00:52:06.059 --> 00:52:09.010 And it stands to reason it makes sense. Now I've, 1072 00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:13.889 I've talked to other medical professionals, uh, medics and things 1073 00:52:13.909 --> 00:52:17.570 like that, that have had, uh, experiences in the field, uh, 1074 00:52:17.650 --> 00:52:21.050 particularly doctors and nurses, nurses, especially those that work the 1075 00:52:21.090 --> 00:52:24.300 night shift have, uh, pardon my French, but they've seen 1076 00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:28.300 some shit. Did you ever have anything like that, that 1077 00:52:28.340 --> 00:52:32.030 you considered paranormal or, any type of visitation or anything 1078 00:52:32.210 --> 00:52:34.679 while you were in the ambulance? Did you ever see 1079 00:52:34.699 --> 00:52:37.340 somebody leave their body or see a loved one come 1080 00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:39.000 to take them away or anything like that? 1081 00:52:40.219 --> 00:52:42.099 The biggest thing in emergency medicine, because I also worked 1082 00:52:42.139 --> 00:52:46.780 in the ER as a, as a medic and whenever 1083 00:52:47.079 --> 00:52:49.940 my main job as a medic was, I put IVs 1084 00:52:49.980 --> 00:52:51.659 in everybody and did blood draws and everybody, because that's 1085 00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:54.039 just a forte if you're a medic, but also if 1086 00:52:54.099 --> 00:52:56.550 we ran a code. So if somebody coded, you know, 1087 00:52:56.570 --> 00:52:58.789 their heart stopped, we, we would go in the room 1088 00:52:58.809 --> 00:53:00.809 with the doctors and nurses and we would do CPR and, 1089 00:53:01.329 --> 00:53:02.989 and all these things to try to bring them back. 1090 00:53:03.670 --> 00:53:05.730 And one of the things in the ER that you 1091 00:53:05.750 --> 00:53:11.519 would notice is we would work on a patient for max, 1092 00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:15.360 maybe 20 minutes, right? Shocking them, giving different drugs, CPR, 1093 00:53:15.420 --> 00:53:19.079 constant CPR. And then the doctor would always ask whoever 1094 00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:22.260 the head doctor was running the code would always ask, 1095 00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:26.329 does anybody else have any other ideas? And most of 1096 00:53:26.449 --> 00:53:30.050 us just knew we just have this sense that this 1097 00:53:30.090 --> 00:53:32.809 person is gone and I don't know how to explain it, 1098 00:53:33.389 --> 00:53:36.869 but when they, their spirit left the room, you just 1099 00:53:36.949 --> 00:53:39.769 knew it and everybody. And even like the doctors and 1100 00:53:39.809 --> 00:53:41.829 nurses who didn't really want to talk about the paranormal stuff, 1101 00:53:42.750 --> 00:53:46.269 you all just have this feeling that our, our efforts 1102 00:53:46.329 --> 00:53:48.710 now are just futile. Like we're not bringing this person back. Like, 1103 00:53:49.150 --> 00:53:50.769 and it might not even be 20 minutes. It might 1104 00:53:50.809 --> 00:53:53.150 be five minutes that everybody just in the room would 1105 00:53:53.170 --> 00:53:56.380 get that feeling. All of a sudden that air just changes. And, um, 1106 00:53:56.969 --> 00:53:59.030 in emergency medicine, I didn't have a whole lot of 1107 00:53:59.050 --> 00:54:01.730 paranormal stuff in the emergency medicine part, like on the 1108 00:54:01.769 --> 00:54:05.570 ambulance and the ER, because it's so fast paced that 1109 00:54:05.590 --> 00:54:09.050 your focus is on what you're doing and not really, 1110 00:54:09.389 --> 00:54:11.010 you're not paying attention. You're kind of, I always called 1111 00:54:11.030 --> 00:54:13.880 it medical mode because you're very like tunnel vision on 1112 00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:16.880 your patients and taking care of them to the detriment 1113 00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:18.980 of yourself. Sometimes. I mean, I've gone like two hours 1114 00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:23.980 without peeing, you know, because of, you know, patients, but, Um, 1115 00:54:24.280 --> 00:54:26.179 now when I first started in medicine, I started out 1116 00:54:26.219 --> 00:54:29.139 working in nursing homes as a nurse tech. And there 1117 00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:30.800 was one nurse home in particular that I worked at 1118 00:54:30.820 --> 00:54:34.340 that I had all kinds of experiences at. And, uh, 1119 00:54:34.489 --> 00:54:36.329 this nursing home, the wing that I worked in was 1120 00:54:36.349 --> 00:54:39.489 the Alzheimer's unit. And it was the oldest part of 1121 00:54:39.510 --> 00:54:41.929 the building. This, this wing of the building had, I 1122 00:54:42.190 --> 00:54:45.449 think it was 15 rooms and it was built as 1123 00:54:45.510 --> 00:54:49.170 a nursing home in the 1940s. And then in the eighties, 1124 00:54:49.309 --> 00:54:53.070 early nineties, a company come in and bought the nursing home, 1125 00:54:53.110 --> 00:54:56.320 that nursing home, and then added more onto it. And 1126 00:54:56.360 --> 00:54:58.179 so over the years it had been built on and 1127 00:54:58.199 --> 00:55:02.579 it became this huge facility. And we had all kinds 1128 00:55:02.619 --> 00:55:05.690 of experiences in that part. And it was just kind 1129 00:55:05.750 --> 00:55:07.630 of known by all the staff and I work night 1130 00:55:07.670 --> 00:55:10.210 shift too. And there were only three of us on 1131 00:55:10.250 --> 00:55:13.449 that whole side of the nursing home. And there was 1132 00:55:13.469 --> 00:55:16.219 a huge dining room and physical therapy that separated us 1133 00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:19.500 from the rest of the building and the patients. And 1134 00:55:19.539 --> 00:55:22.159 at night, there's nobody in that dining room or in 1135 00:55:22.380 --> 00:55:24.599 physical therapy. So we were kind of cut off from 1136 00:55:24.619 --> 00:55:27.579 the rest of the facility and all the other patients 1137 00:55:27.619 --> 00:55:29.860 and nurses and stuff. And there were only three of us. 1138 00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:33.300 So it was me, another nurse tech, and a nurse 1139 00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:37.789 and an OPN. And you would hear people walking behind 1140 00:55:37.829 --> 00:55:40.750 you that weren't there. The only light that we would 1141 00:55:40.769 --> 00:55:42.489 keep on would be the light at the nurse station. 1142 00:55:42.510 --> 00:55:44.630 So the hallways were dark. And we would even go 1143 00:55:44.650 --> 00:55:46.889 in the patient's rooms to do our rounds every two 1144 00:55:46.929 --> 00:55:48.929 hours to check on the patient's. cause a lot of 1145 00:55:48.969 --> 00:55:51.079 them were Alzheimer's with incontinence. So they had to have 1146 00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:53.360 diapers changed and things like that. So we'd even go 1147 00:55:53.380 --> 00:55:55.960 in the rooms in the complete darkness cause our eyes 1148 00:55:55.980 --> 00:55:57.739 were adjusted and check on the patients cause we don't 1149 00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:00.739 want to wake them up. And so we experienced all 1150 00:56:00.780 --> 00:56:03.019 kinds of things. I mean, I'd walk in a room 1151 00:56:03.099 --> 00:56:05.300 and you would, it would look like there was somebody 1152 00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:07.710 sitting in a wheelchair. And then when you turn the 1153 00:56:07.730 --> 00:56:09.289 light on, there's nobody there, but you could see the 1154 00:56:09.389 --> 00:56:14.070 perfect outline of head and shoulders. Um, and then probably, 1155 00:56:14.090 --> 00:56:17.739 I think I've told you this story before. Um, But 1156 00:56:18.159 --> 00:56:20.539 I the only thing I call the angel of death story. 1157 00:56:22.139 --> 00:56:24.039 One night, the nurse and the other tech had gone 1158 00:56:24.059 --> 00:56:25.659 to lunch and I was on the hall by myself 1159 00:56:26.239 --> 00:56:28.579 and all the patients are in bed asleep. And I 1160 00:56:28.900 --> 00:56:31.340 walk up to the around the nurse's station and come 1161 00:56:31.380 --> 00:56:32.980 and I'm fixing to turn left down this long the 1162 00:56:33.019 --> 00:56:35.179 long hall where most of the rooms were. And there 1163 00:56:35.219 --> 00:56:37.659 are a set of double doors at the end that 1164 00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:40.099 you could like the parking lot lights shine in because 1165 00:56:40.119 --> 00:56:43.679 that was the outside door was the employee parking. And 1166 00:56:43.699 --> 00:56:47.320 I when I look down there, I see this tall, skinny. 1167 00:56:48.320 --> 00:56:52.719 younger guy in a like solid black suit. And he 1168 00:56:52.780 --> 00:56:55.050 had to be probably six, four, six, five, really tall 1169 00:56:55.070 --> 00:56:57.710 and skinny and younger. And I looked at him, we 1170 00:56:57.730 --> 00:56:59.929 looked at each other for, I don't know, 10 seconds 1171 00:57:00.750 --> 00:57:03.980 at most. And he smiled and he turned left and 1172 00:57:04.019 --> 00:57:08.380 went into one of the patient rooms and everything's going 1173 00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:10.179 through my mind. I didn't go to the paranormal. Cause 1174 00:57:10.219 --> 00:57:12.159 I'm like in that medical mode, I wasn't thinking paranormal. 1175 00:57:12.820 --> 00:57:14.920 And I'm like, what the hell? who is in here? 1176 00:57:14.980 --> 00:57:16.460 It's like three o'clock in the morning. Who is in 1177 00:57:16.500 --> 00:57:19.400 the building? There's no visitors. There's no family. We don't 1178 00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:21.239 have a patient. It looks like that. Most of these 1179 00:57:21.800 --> 00:57:24.400 patients were, you know, older ladies. The majority of our 1180 00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:27.449 population were older women. And so I walked straight down 1181 00:57:27.489 --> 00:57:29.789 there and went in that room and turned the light on. 1182 00:57:29.909 --> 00:57:33.849 And it was just the women that the four women, 1183 00:57:33.869 --> 00:57:35.610 there were two beds on each side. They're called ward rooms. 1184 00:57:36.329 --> 00:57:38.429 And it was all four ladies. They were all in 1185 00:57:38.449 --> 00:57:41.840 the bed. There's nobody else in there. And where the 1186 00:57:41.880 --> 00:57:44.780 angel of death comes in, I left the next morning 1187 00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:47.489 at seven o'clock. And when I came back the next night, 1188 00:57:47.610 --> 00:57:49.269 one of those ladies in that room had passed away. 1189 00:57:50.369 --> 00:57:52.929 And she was somebody that we weren't expecting to pass away, 1190 00:57:53.510 --> 00:57:55.730 but she, she did about an hour after I left, 1191 00:57:55.789 --> 00:58:01.849 they went into the room and found that she was deceased. Oh, wow. 1192 00:58:01.909 --> 00:58:04.489 So that, that was sort of an angel of death there, 1193 00:58:04.510 --> 00:58:08.090 I guess. Wasn't what you thought. It wasn't the grim Reaper. 1194 00:58:08.110 --> 00:58:11.159 It wasn't a skeleton in a hooded robe, but a 1195 00:58:11.559 --> 00:58:13.909 young guy in a suit. Interesting. 1196 00:58:13.989 --> 00:58:15.849 And, and, and when he smiled at me, it wasn't 1197 00:58:15.889 --> 00:58:18.110 creepy and it didn't frighten me. I thought it was 1198 00:58:18.159 --> 00:58:18.719 a real person. 1199 00:58:18.739 --> 00:58:21.460 He just, I'm here doing my job. Don't mind me. 1200 00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:24.260 Well, I think he was, I think he was surprised 1201 00:58:24.280 --> 00:58:26.739 that I could see him. I think it was one 1202 00:58:26.760 --> 00:58:28.300 of those things. Like that's why we stared at each 1203 00:58:28.340 --> 00:58:29.880 other for about 10 seconds, because I think he was 1204 00:58:29.920 --> 00:58:31.639 just as surprised to see me as I was to 1205 00:58:31.659 --> 00:58:35.099 see him. Um, another weird thing on that Alzheimer's unit 1206 00:58:35.820 --> 00:58:39.690 is that we had a lady who, um, she was 1207 00:58:39.750 --> 00:58:44.239 in stays Alzheimer's. And so you couldn't really talk to her. Um, 1208 00:58:44.380 --> 00:58:46.579 she wouldn't answer you back. She was verbal and she 1209 00:58:46.599 --> 00:58:49.099 would say things, but they didn't make any sense. And, 1210 00:58:49.280 --> 00:58:51.179 but if she started yelling about the man in the corner, 1211 00:58:52.179 --> 00:58:54.199 everybody knew that somebody was going to die within 24 1212 00:58:54.199 --> 00:58:58.500 hours and never failed. Um, and it was just something 1213 00:58:58.519 --> 00:59:00.550 that was known by all the long-term employees. And the 1214 00:59:00.570 --> 00:59:04.730 first time it ever happened, I was really skeptical. I'm like, whatever. 1215 00:59:04.789 --> 00:59:06.650 When they told me, Oh, somebody's going to die because Ms. 1216 00:59:06.670 --> 00:59:09.469 So-and-so is talking about the man in the corner. Sure enough, 1217 00:59:09.489 --> 00:59:12.539 sure enough, somebody died. And the weird thing is also 1218 00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:16.400 in the nursing home, deaths always come in threes. It's 1219 00:59:16.579 --> 00:59:17.139 really weird. 1220 00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:20.039 Now I've heard that, you know, in pop culture that 1221 00:59:20.099 --> 00:59:22.739 anytime a celebrity or something dies, they say death come 1222 00:59:22.780 --> 00:59:25.699 in threes. So I guess it can be that way 1223 00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:28.420 in a nursing home or a hospital setting as well. 1224 00:59:28.559 --> 00:59:33.570 Yeah. Yeah. Um, but like I said, that, those for 1225 00:59:33.610 --> 00:59:35.869 the most part was most of the paranormal experiences that 1226 00:59:35.929 --> 00:59:39.449 I had, uh, in the medical field. Um, there were 1227 00:59:39.489 --> 00:59:44.400 other weird things, um, especially working in like an emergency 1228 00:59:44.420 --> 00:59:49.300 environment as an empath. I think that definitely played as 1229 00:59:49.340 --> 00:59:51.440 a strength of mine because I kind of just knew 1230 00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:54.030 what I should do for my patients sometimes, uh, in 1231 00:59:54.050 --> 00:59:56.250 that emergency setting. And, and that's what they want you 1232 00:59:56.269 --> 00:59:58.949 to do. I mean, you're training. you're trained to just 1233 00:59:59.190 --> 01:00:00.849 act and not think about what you're doing, but just 1234 01:00:00.969 --> 01:00:02.949 know what you need to do. But I think the 1235 01:00:03.030 --> 01:00:05.510 empath thing came in handy of just kind of knowing 1236 01:00:05.550 --> 01:00:10.280 sometimes without having to go into too much of like, okay, 1237 01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:11.619 I need to do all these tests to figure out 1238 01:00:11.639 --> 01:00:13.340 what's going on with this person, but I would already 1239 01:00:13.380 --> 01:00:15.320 have an idea. Okay. It's their blood sugar. So the 1240 01:00:15.340 --> 01:00:17.360 first thing I'm going to do, you know, is test 1241 01:00:17.380 --> 01:00:21.480 their blood sugar or, you know, just having that inherent 1242 01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:22.940 feeling that I already knew what was going on with 1243 01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:24.219 the patient and what I needed to do. 1244 01:00:24.239 --> 01:00:27.010 Yeah. And I could see how being an empath would, 1245 01:00:27.530 --> 01:00:31.139 totally work well in that type setting. 1246 01:00:31.179 --> 01:00:31.429 Yeah. 1247 01:00:31.469 --> 01:00:34.260 That just, yeah, that little bit of insight that they 1248 01:00:34.280 --> 01:00:37.639 just to, you know, start in the right place. That's amazing, Eric. 1249 01:00:39.199 --> 01:00:43.219 Yeah. The, the, the most times that ever even paid 1250 01:00:43.260 --> 01:00:45.519 attention to the paranormal working on the ambulance is when 1251 01:00:45.539 --> 01:00:51.400 we went into hospice locations and, you know, hospice, everybody is, 1252 01:00:51.760 --> 01:00:57.780 is dying. And to walk in there, you're, physically your 1253 01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:00.019 body just wants to walk right back out is what 1254 01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:01.800 it feels like. Like your legs is trying to lead 1255 01:01:01.820 --> 01:01:04.139 you back out of the building. It's almost like two 1256 01:01:04.179 --> 01:01:07.090 repelling magnets. Like you're just being pushed. Like this is 1257 01:01:07.110 --> 01:01:09.630 not a place for you type deal, especially with the 1258 01:01:09.670 --> 01:01:12.030 empath stuff with all the people, all the people in 1259 01:01:12.050 --> 01:01:15.070 there and all the grief and the emotions. And it 1260 01:01:15.090 --> 01:01:17.469 was just very overwhelming to go in those places. And 1261 01:01:17.510 --> 01:01:19.730 I usually had to go like smoke two or three cigarettes, 1262 01:01:20.429 --> 01:01:22.190 you know, and calm down after we had been in 1263 01:01:22.510 --> 01:01:23.969 one of those places and just kind of shake off 1264 01:01:23.989 --> 01:01:25.090 the energy. Yeah. 1265 01:01:25.230 --> 01:01:29.670 And I know that feeling very, very well. Retirement homes, 1266 01:01:29.769 --> 01:01:33.530 rehab facilities, those have always been difficult places for me 1267 01:01:33.570 --> 01:01:37.829 to visit or in a hospice situation. Another place that 1268 01:01:37.869 --> 01:01:40.610 really got under my skin was at a children's hospital 1269 01:01:40.710 --> 01:01:42.730 one time. I could not wait to get out of 1270 01:01:42.769 --> 01:01:45.489 that place just because, you know, all the pain and 1271 01:01:45.550 --> 01:01:48.480 suffering and there are these little innocent children. It's just, 1272 01:01:48.559 --> 01:01:49.460 it was overwhelming. 1273 01:01:50.719 --> 01:01:54.500 Yeah. Yeah. Anything to do with children, like working in medicine, 1274 01:01:54.519 --> 01:01:57.500 because To me, you always read it, children are always innocent. 1275 01:01:59.489 --> 01:02:03.389 Especially in emergency medicine, if they get hurt or something, 1276 01:02:04.250 --> 01:02:08.090 it's not really their fault ever. And so car wrecks 1277 01:02:08.130 --> 01:02:09.809 and things, they're not in control of any of that. 1278 01:02:10.030 --> 01:02:13.070 So yeah, kids are always innocent. Those are always hard cases, 1279 01:02:13.250 --> 01:02:13.789 no matter what. 1280 01:02:17.110 --> 01:02:20.090 And we were talking about animals in the paranormal. There 1281 01:02:20.110 --> 01:02:25.530 was a rehabilitation facility in Portland, Oregon, They had a dog, 1282 01:02:25.590 --> 01:02:28.190 like a therapy dog, that would wander around, go from 1283 01:02:28.250 --> 01:02:31.010 room to room, and the patients there would pet it 1284 01:02:31.030 --> 01:02:33.989 and things. Now, some of those people were short-term. Others 1285 01:02:34.030 --> 01:02:36.190 were long-term. I mean, that was pretty much the end 1286 01:02:36.230 --> 01:02:38.289 of the road for them until they went to hospice. 1287 01:02:38.849 --> 01:02:41.210 But the same thing. There was a dog. It was 1288 01:02:41.349 --> 01:02:44.409 a black lab female. I think her name was Lady. 1289 01:02:45.190 --> 01:02:47.690 And they said that she would do her rounds. She 1290 01:02:47.710 --> 01:02:49.750 would go out and go into all the rooms and stuff. 1291 01:02:50.250 --> 01:02:51.929 But they said if there was a room that she 1292 01:02:51.969 --> 01:02:55.139 would go in multiple times or room that she would 1293 01:02:55.179 --> 01:02:57.610 go in and just basically refuse to come out of, 1294 01:02:58.099 --> 01:03:00.630 they would keep a closer eye on that patient because 1295 01:03:01.070 --> 01:03:03.489 usually they were going to expire or something bad was 1296 01:03:03.510 --> 01:03:04.989 going to happen. Yeah. 1297 01:03:05.429 --> 01:03:07.710 I've heard a couple of stories of cats that way too. 1298 01:03:07.730 --> 01:03:09.750 A lot of nursing homes have like their cat, their 1299 01:03:09.789 --> 01:03:11.389 nursing home cat that just kind of wanders around. 1300 01:03:11.409 --> 01:03:12.070 Yeah. 1301 01:03:12.090 --> 01:03:14.690 I've heard a few of those stories. Um, I have 1302 01:03:14.710 --> 01:03:18.400 an interesting story about one of my dogs that I 1303 01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:22.679 had to, had to put down talking about animals. Um, we, 1304 01:03:23.289 --> 01:03:26.090 he had cancer and, uh, he had a tumor the 1305 01:03:26.139 --> 01:03:29.519 size of a softball. And, uh, it finally came time 1306 01:03:29.559 --> 01:03:31.480 when it was time to put him down. And so 1307 01:03:31.500 --> 01:03:33.280 we went to the vet, put him down and me 1308 01:03:33.300 --> 01:03:37.010 and my husband, uh, wanted to go like shopping or 1309 01:03:37.070 --> 01:03:38.739 do something just to get our minds off of it. 1310 01:03:39.730 --> 01:03:42.090 And we didn't have this planned out. We just talked 1311 01:03:42.130 --> 01:03:45.510 about it afterwards because we were both upset. And so 1312 01:03:45.530 --> 01:03:48.949 we went to Nashville and just went into this random store. 1313 01:03:49.380 --> 01:03:50.679 We went in this, you know, strip mall with all 1314 01:03:50.699 --> 01:03:52.630 these different stores. And just went in the store and 1315 01:03:52.650 --> 01:03:57.110 we were looking at, it was, I forget what store 1316 01:03:57.130 --> 01:03:58.380 it was, but it's one of those stores that kind 1317 01:03:58.389 --> 01:04:01.000 of has everything, you know what I'm talking about? And 1318 01:04:01.019 --> 01:04:02.639 then like they have clothes, but then they also have 1319 01:04:02.679 --> 01:04:03.599 a section for like pets. 1320 01:04:03.619 --> 01:04:06.599 When I was a kid, they called them a variety store. 1321 01:04:06.940 --> 01:04:09.579 Yeah, yeah. And I think it was Home Goods or 1322 01:04:09.639 --> 01:04:11.840 At Home, one of those places. Anyway, we were looking 1323 01:04:11.860 --> 01:04:15.639 at the dog stuff because we were like, oh, well, 1324 01:04:15.679 --> 01:04:18.139 you know, since we had to put him down, let's 1325 01:04:18.179 --> 01:04:21.250 kind of pamper and spoil our other dogs. And over 1326 01:04:21.289 --> 01:04:25.800 the loudspeaker, we hear a voice that says, Chase, can 1327 01:04:25.820 --> 01:04:29.239 you come to the front? Well, our dog's name was Chase. 1328 01:04:30.019 --> 01:04:30.280 Wow. 1329 01:04:30.900 --> 01:04:33.039 So an hour after we put our dog Chase down, 1330 01:04:33.300 --> 01:04:37.510 we're in this random store and randomly somebody named Chase 1331 01:04:37.769 --> 01:04:39.929 just happened to work there and they called them over 1332 01:04:39.949 --> 01:04:42.130 the loudspeaker. And we just looked at each other and 1333 01:04:42.150 --> 01:04:44.389 just nodded. We both just knew. That's a sign. 1334 01:04:44.670 --> 01:04:47.510 I don't believe in coincidences. I believe in synchronicities. And 1335 01:04:47.550 --> 01:04:49.820 that's what it sounds like there. He was letting you 1336 01:04:49.860 --> 01:04:53.519 know that that he'd crossed a rainbow bridge or whatever 1337 01:04:53.559 --> 01:04:55.920 you believe in that he's okay on the other side. 1338 01:04:56.639 --> 01:04:58.860 Yeah. And it's funny. We have a big Island, a 1339 01:04:59.139 --> 01:05:02.239 big four foot, a three foot Island in our kitchen 1340 01:05:03.030 --> 01:05:05.050 and all the rest of my, I have, we have 1341 01:05:05.110 --> 01:05:07.630 eight dogs. They're all rescues, but yeah, we have eight dogs, 1342 01:05:08.210 --> 01:05:12.329 but there'll be outside in their run. And I will 1343 01:05:12.349 --> 01:05:14.050 hear nails on the floor when I'm in the kitchen, 1344 01:05:14.090 --> 01:05:16.670 send it to the Island and I'll see a little 1345 01:05:16.809 --> 01:05:18.889 white furry, but go around the corner. And then when 1346 01:05:18.909 --> 01:05:21.219 I go around the corner, there's no dog there. And 1347 01:05:21.239 --> 01:05:23.519 we don't have any little white dogs. We have a 1348 01:05:23.579 --> 01:05:26.760 big white dog, weighs 100 pounds. And so it looks 1349 01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:29.360 like Chase. And I think he comes back and visits. 1350 01:05:29.980 --> 01:05:31.019 And I see him every once in a while. 1351 01:05:31.380 --> 01:05:33.280 I think they do that. And I've told the story 1352 01:05:33.320 --> 01:05:36.179 before where I spent the night with a friend in 1353 01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:39.980 college and slept in his spare bedroom. And during the night, 1354 01:05:40.300 --> 01:05:42.800 a cat came, got in the bed, curled up behind 1355 01:05:42.840 --> 01:05:45.440 my knees. I felt it jump on the bed, felt 1356 01:05:45.500 --> 01:05:49.199 it curl up and could feel that purring. And the 1357 01:05:49.239 --> 01:05:51.460 next morning I got up and he's cooking breakfast for us. 1358 01:05:51.920 --> 01:05:53.940 And I said, buddy, if you're looking for your cat 1359 01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:56.239 last night, it came and got in the bed with me. 1360 01:05:56.260 --> 01:05:58.619 He looks at me and kind of grins. He said, Steve, 1361 01:05:59.030 --> 01:06:01.630 that cat's been gone for three years. But he said, 1362 01:06:01.670 --> 01:06:03.750 I feel the same thing. I felt it brush up 1363 01:06:03.789 --> 01:06:06.230 against my leg in the dark. I felt it jump 1364 01:06:06.309 --> 01:06:08.489 on the bed. He said, there's no cat here. I 1365 01:06:08.510 --> 01:06:11.909 don't have any other animals, but I know what I 1366 01:06:11.969 --> 01:06:14.739 felt and what I experienced. It was a cat. Yeah. Yeah. 1367 01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:17.619 Yeah, I've heard other stories from people like that, too. 1368 01:06:17.699 --> 01:06:21.579 My friend, Sin Trader Hill, who's a paranormal author investigator, 1369 01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:24.590 I narrated one of her books for my new podcast, 1370 01:06:24.610 --> 01:06:27.710 Strange Chapters. And one of her stories that she has 1371 01:06:27.949 --> 01:06:30.650 in her own book is about a cat doing that. 1372 01:06:30.750 --> 01:06:33.090 And she thought it was the actual cat. And then 1373 01:06:33.110 --> 01:06:35.639 she remembered they had they had moved into a new 1374 01:06:35.699 --> 01:06:39.320 place and her cat was staying at her mom's. And 1375 01:06:39.340 --> 01:06:43.630 she realized my cat's not here. But she knew the 1376 01:06:43.690 --> 01:06:46.050 feeling of it was a cat jumping up and curling 1377 01:06:46.090 --> 01:06:47.289 at the bottom of her legs. You know how they 1378 01:06:47.329 --> 01:06:49.989 kind of walk around in a circle and nest? Yeah. 1379 01:06:50.429 --> 01:06:52.139 That's kind of what this cat did and laid down. 1380 01:06:53.179 --> 01:06:56.420 And yeah, she didn't realize it until the next day that, oh, 1381 01:06:56.579 --> 01:06:58.340 my cat is still at my mom's. We don't have 1382 01:06:58.380 --> 01:07:00.199 a cat here. And so it was a ghost cat. 1383 01:07:02.159 --> 01:07:05.739 Amazing. And I think they do survive. They do come back. 1384 01:07:06.570 --> 01:07:11.469 And sometimes for good or bad, but always interesting. 1385 01:07:12.530 --> 01:07:14.750 Yeah. Well, the dog Chase, I think the reason that 1386 01:07:14.789 --> 01:07:16.869 he comes back is he was a rescue and he 1387 01:07:16.889 --> 01:07:21.510 was a difficult rescue. His story is crazy. I read 1388 01:07:21.570 --> 01:07:24.909 the whole story in one of Sin's books about loved 1389 01:07:24.949 --> 01:07:28.219 ones coming back and visiting. But we rescued him. They're 1390 01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:30.139 going to put him down because he had behavioral issues 1391 01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:32.960 because he was rescued from a puppy mill. Anyway, long 1392 01:07:32.980 --> 01:07:35.000 story short, we got the dog. I worked with him 1393 01:07:36.500 --> 01:07:38.280 a lot of working with him to get him to 1394 01:07:38.320 --> 01:07:40.159 be a good dog. He ended up being an amazing dog. 1395 01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:44.309 We had him for eight years. And before we had 1396 01:07:44.329 --> 01:07:47.949 to put him down and that dog taught me more 1397 01:07:48.010 --> 01:07:50.199 than I think I ever taught him. And so I 1398 01:07:50.280 --> 01:07:52.219 think that's why he comes back because me and him 1399 01:07:52.260 --> 01:07:55.579 had such a connection. I love all of my animals. 1400 01:07:55.639 --> 01:07:57.900 I love all my dogs and they're all spoiled rotten, 1401 01:07:58.639 --> 01:08:01.820 but he is just that one animal that I had 1402 01:08:02.079 --> 01:08:05.019 such an insane connection with. And I think that's why 1403 01:08:05.059 --> 01:08:06.860 he still comes around because me and him just had 1404 01:08:06.989 --> 01:08:07.650 such a connection. 1405 01:08:11.940 --> 01:08:15.099 No, I think they can sense emotions and things too. 1406 01:08:15.139 --> 01:08:17.079 I had that experience when I was a child, I'd 1407 01:08:17.739 --> 01:08:20.039 be upset about something and then they would come over, 1408 01:08:20.159 --> 01:08:21.930 you know, and like, like try to come for me 1409 01:08:22.590 --> 01:08:26.430 and things. And there's a certain bond there with, with 1410 01:08:26.449 --> 01:08:27.149 certain animals. 1411 01:08:28.550 --> 01:08:31.130 Yeah. It's, it's weird how the, having eight dogs, the 1412 01:08:31.149 --> 01:08:33.560 different dynamic, like I said, they're all spoiled and I 1413 01:08:33.569 --> 01:08:35.760 love them all. And they all get, you know, spoiled 1414 01:08:35.779 --> 01:08:38.739 to death and loving and cuddles and, but different, yeah. 1415 01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:42.140 Different ones based on their different personalities. Um, some of 1416 01:08:42.180 --> 01:08:44.810 them are more loving than others and, um, yeah, we 1417 01:08:44.819 --> 01:08:47.069 have a couple of our dogs that if you're sick 1418 01:08:47.109 --> 01:08:49.890 or not feeling well, they will come and cuddle with 1419 01:08:49.909 --> 01:08:53.970 you more and want more of your attention that way. Um, 1420 01:08:54.529 --> 01:08:59.909 because they can, they just know something's wrong with you. Yeah. Yeah. 1421 01:08:59.909 --> 01:09:02.390 I had a story and um strange things in the 1422 01:09:02.449 --> 01:09:06.329 woods about a dog that uh passed away and came 1423 01:09:06.390 --> 01:09:09.720 back and a lot of people saw him other than 1424 01:09:09.760 --> 01:09:13.380 the person that he actually belonged to that person never 1425 01:09:13.420 --> 01:09:16.260 did see the dog but his dad would see it 1426 01:09:16.340 --> 01:09:18.380 like going around the corner of the house just out 1427 01:09:18.420 --> 01:09:21.130 of sight you know just vanished and run over there 1428 01:09:21.149 --> 01:09:24.520 and it's not there. His son saw the dog. He was, uh, 1429 01:09:24.550 --> 01:09:26.470 him and his mom had been somewhere coming back and 1430 01:09:26.510 --> 01:09:28.060 he saw the dog like in the edge of the 1431 01:09:28.109 --> 01:09:31.140 woods and say, Oh, the dog came back, but it, 1432 01:09:31.399 --> 01:09:37.500 it not in, uh, in actual form. It was a spirit, but, uh, 1433 01:09:37.739 --> 01:09:41.659 I read a lot of stories to similar accounts like that. 1434 01:09:42.619 --> 01:09:44.989 Yeah. The one that fascinated me with animals are the 1435 01:09:45.109 --> 01:09:49.250 ones that were, they've, um, the animal spirit has helped people. 1436 01:09:50.140 --> 01:09:52.659 And people will figure out like there, there's one story 1437 01:09:53.159 --> 01:09:56.560 that I heard about. These people are horseback riding and 1438 01:09:56.600 --> 01:09:59.689 they got lost. They were standing at a camp and 1439 01:09:59.699 --> 01:10:02.609 they were horseback riding and they got lost and it 1440 01:10:02.630 --> 01:10:04.029 was going to be a really cold night and they 1441 01:10:04.050 --> 01:10:08.550 didn't have the proper gear to stay out overnight for 1442 01:10:08.569 --> 01:10:12.170 their horses or themselves. Well, this random like yellow, I 1443 01:10:12.189 --> 01:10:14.609 think it was a yellow lab just come up to 1444 01:10:14.640 --> 01:10:17.560 them and started barking at them. And they finally figured 1445 01:10:17.619 --> 01:10:19.859 out he wants us to follow him. Well, he led 1446 01:10:19.880 --> 01:10:23.300 them all the way back to the camp and they, uh, 1447 01:10:23.359 --> 01:10:25.460 the people that own the camp or whatever, they were 1448 01:10:25.479 --> 01:10:27.640 talking and said, you know, this dog led us back 1449 01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:28.939 here and we thought we were going to freeze to 1450 01:10:28.960 --> 01:10:33.039 death out in the cold. And the owner, the guy said, well, 1451 01:10:33.520 --> 01:10:35.659 that sounds like my dog that died like two years ago. 1452 01:10:36.350 --> 01:10:38.729 He used to run around the woods and like, you know, um, 1453 01:10:38.789 --> 01:10:41.409 he was kind of the camp dog and, uh, yeah, 1454 01:10:41.430 --> 01:10:43.729 this dog had, and they never saw the dog again, 1455 01:10:44.630 --> 01:10:47.189 but it saved them from being out in this really 1456 01:10:47.229 --> 01:10:50.310 cold night. and possibly something happened to them. 1457 01:10:51.510 --> 01:10:55.329 Yeah, that's amazing. And I've done videos about missing people 1458 01:10:55.869 --> 01:10:59.090 where that's happened. Sometimes it'd be their own animal, or 1459 01:10:59.189 --> 01:11:02.369 other times just some random anonymous animal, if you will, 1460 01:11:02.409 --> 01:11:05.470 that showed up. Now, getting back to that, do you 1461 01:11:05.510 --> 01:11:08.270 think it's just domesticated animals that do that, or do 1462 01:11:08.289 --> 01:11:10.970 you think animals in the wild can come back? I mean, 1463 01:11:10.989 --> 01:11:13.850 I've never heard of anybody seeing a ghost of a 1464 01:11:13.890 --> 01:11:16.949 deer or a bear, but not in the sense that 1465 01:11:16.989 --> 01:11:19.710 we were talking about. Now you see the cat gray, 1466 01:11:19.750 --> 01:11:22.170 she's got a story about, uh, I guess what they 1467 01:11:22.189 --> 01:11:24.270 call a not deer. That's a deer, but it's not 1468 01:11:24.329 --> 01:11:28.149 a deer that, uh, it was the shadowy form of 1469 01:11:28.210 --> 01:11:31.810 a deer caught in mid leap, but it was moving without, 1470 01:11:32.229 --> 01:11:34.500 you know, it wasn't moving its legs or running or anything. 1471 01:11:34.539 --> 01:11:36.840 It was just like, if you drew a picture of 1472 01:11:36.880 --> 01:11:40.000 a deer leaping and then that picture moved along, what 1473 01:11:40.020 --> 01:11:42.960 do you think something like that is from a paranormal perspective? 1474 01:11:44.279 --> 01:11:47.539 I think it's definitely possible. Um, I think, you know, 1475 01:11:47.579 --> 01:11:50.840 they have energy the same as humans. So I think 1476 01:11:50.859 --> 01:11:54.699 you get something that's intelligent or, um, or even something 1477 01:11:55.119 --> 01:11:58.420 like stone tape theory. But, um, I, I would say 1478 01:11:58.479 --> 01:12:00.399 that you, if you see a bear in the wild, 1479 01:12:00.420 --> 01:12:01.539 you're not going to go poke it in the ass 1480 01:12:01.560 --> 01:12:05.039 to make sure it's real and not a spirit. So 1481 01:12:05.140 --> 01:12:07.760 it would be, it would be hard to tell if you're, 1482 01:12:08.300 --> 01:12:09.460 what you're looking at is, you know. 1483 01:12:10.300 --> 01:12:13.199 Now, if you were watching an animal in the wilderness 1484 01:12:13.229 --> 01:12:15.850 and then saw it wink out of existence or disappear 1485 01:12:15.869 --> 01:12:18.310 or something, that might be a heads up. But yeah, 1486 01:12:18.409 --> 01:12:22.369 I'm not going to go check anything like that. We've 1487 01:12:22.390 --> 01:12:25.310 talked a lot about hauntings and spirits and ghosts and things. 1488 01:12:25.350 --> 01:12:28.470 That's your forte, your field of study. Do you ever 1489 01:12:28.670 --> 01:12:32.109 delve over into any of the cryptid encounters, Bigfoot, Dogman, 1490 01:12:32.949 --> 01:12:34.270 any interest in any of those things? 1491 01:12:35.170 --> 01:12:38.180 I kind of have an interest in all of it. Yeah, 1492 01:12:38.189 --> 01:12:39.800 I have a lot of guests on and talk about 1493 01:12:40.750 --> 01:12:43.590 dogman and bigfoot in particular but all kinds of other 1494 01:12:43.609 --> 01:12:47.989 cryptids as well um i find them fascinating not just 1495 01:12:48.069 --> 01:12:50.939 from a they might be real standpoint but the folklore 1496 01:12:50.979 --> 01:12:54.479 and storytelling standpoint of them and how some of these 1497 01:12:54.539 --> 01:12:59.239 small towns like falc arkansas yeah had this one sighting 1498 01:12:59.899 --> 01:13:03.090 back in 1940 something and they still have a festival 1499 01:13:03.119 --> 01:13:06.289 every year and that's yeah that's a big one yeah 1500 01:13:06.569 --> 01:13:08.470 and that's the center of their but that's the center 1501 01:13:08.489 --> 01:13:10.090 of their like economy. 1502 01:13:10.060 --> 01:13:15.060 The Mothman Festival. What was the other one that's in 1503 01:13:15.100 --> 01:13:18.430 that area? I'll think of it here in a second. 1504 01:13:19.359 --> 01:13:23.189 The thing that looked like some sort of alien creature, 1505 01:13:23.250 --> 01:13:26.810 Flatwoods Monster. They had Flatwood days there and it's celebrated. 1506 01:13:27.390 --> 01:13:30.270 And I've talked to them about that before, how people 1507 01:13:30.510 --> 01:13:34.069 embrace things like that. And it becomes part of the local, 1508 01:13:34.510 --> 01:13:38.039 not only the legend, but part of the economy. They 1509 01:13:38.079 --> 01:13:41.390 celebrate it. They have festivals and gift shops and T-shirts 1510 01:13:41.430 --> 01:13:43.430 and things like that. And I think that's wonderful. 1511 01:13:44.369 --> 01:13:46.869 Yeah, yeah. I think it's cool to keep those stories 1512 01:13:46.949 --> 01:13:51.130 alive like that as well. And I find cryptids very interesting. 1513 01:13:52.149 --> 01:13:54.779 And I think that some of them could be real creatures. 1514 01:13:54.859 --> 01:14:00.180 I mean, we're still discovering creatures every day. Like biologists 1515 01:14:00.220 --> 01:14:03.119 are out there, you know, discovering creatures. real living animals 1516 01:14:03.260 --> 01:14:05.840 every day. And even, even larger animals. I mean, they're 1517 01:14:05.859 --> 01:14:09.439 finding like deer species and things that they never knew existed. 1518 01:14:09.600 --> 01:14:11.649 And like, as far as like Bigfoot, I mean, we 1519 01:14:11.689 --> 01:14:15.689 didn't discover mountain gorillas until the 1930s. Until then, they 1520 01:14:15.710 --> 01:14:17.369 were just a myth, like silverback gorillas. 1521 01:14:17.430 --> 01:14:19.750 You read my mind again. I was just going to 1522 01:14:19.789 --> 01:14:22.729 mention the great apes that that was thought to be 1523 01:14:22.770 --> 01:14:26.449 a myth or just a legend until they discovered them. 1524 01:14:26.930 --> 01:14:30.590 So again, the thing with cryptids for me, Bigfoot and 1525 01:14:30.609 --> 01:14:33.489 things like that, people say, well, It can't exist because 1526 01:14:33.529 --> 01:14:37.449 we've never found a carcass. Well, I know bears exist, 1527 01:14:37.489 --> 01:14:39.520 but I've never came across a bear carcass in the 1528 01:14:39.579 --> 01:14:41.479 woods either. I think you and I talked about that 1529 01:14:42.100 --> 01:14:45.000 before when I was on your show. But I don't 1530 01:14:45.119 --> 01:14:48.859 see not having a carcass as evidence that it doesn't 1531 01:14:48.930 --> 01:14:53.470 exist because there's a lot of smaller predators out there, 1532 01:14:53.510 --> 01:14:57.310 you will, that will pick anything clean. even down to 1533 01:14:57.449 --> 01:15:00.729 insects and blowflies and things like that. Nature makes good 1534 01:15:00.880 --> 01:15:03.439 use of everything. Not a lot goes to waste. So 1535 01:15:03.600 --> 01:15:06.079 I don't think that's an indicator that something doesn't exist 1536 01:15:06.119 --> 01:15:09.579 because we've never found a dead one or the carcass 1537 01:15:09.619 --> 01:15:10.159 of a dead one. 1538 01:15:10.859 --> 01:15:12.699 Yeah, I was talking to Shane Corse on the other day. 1539 01:15:12.770 --> 01:15:16.149 He's with the Olympic Project, and out in the Olympic 1540 01:15:16.250 --> 01:15:18.510 National Forest, they have a couple of research areas where 1541 01:15:18.529 --> 01:15:22.210 they research mainly Bigfoot, Sasquatch. And he brought up a 1542 01:15:22.229 --> 01:15:23.409 good point when I was talking to him the other day, 1543 01:15:24.130 --> 01:15:26.970 He said, well, if you come across bones in the forest, 1544 01:15:27.640 --> 01:15:29.819 who is adept at telling where that bone came from? 1545 01:15:30.920 --> 01:15:33.279 You don't know if it came from a deer, a raccoon, 1546 01:15:33.319 --> 01:15:35.859 a bear. You're not going to know if that's a 1547 01:15:35.920 --> 01:15:39.859 Bigfoot bone or not, unless you see a skull. You're 1548 01:15:39.880 --> 01:15:43.539 not going to know what animal that bone belonged to. 1549 01:15:44.100 --> 01:15:47.479 And I'm with you on that. Mother Nature is an 1550 01:15:47.939 --> 01:15:51.649 amazing system at dealing with waste and getting rid of stuff. 1551 01:15:52.229 --> 01:15:53.970 And I think we talked about that, didn't we? When 1552 01:15:53.989 --> 01:15:56.369 I was on your show that the period of time 1553 01:15:56.430 --> 01:15:58.630 there that say a deer or something like that in 1554 01:15:58.670 --> 01:16:01.989 the woods goes from the whole body down to nothing. 1555 01:16:02.029 --> 01:16:03.390 It's just a few days. 1556 01:16:03.689 --> 01:16:07.539 Yeah. Yeah. And it'll be scattered. I mean, scavengers, they 1557 01:16:07.560 --> 01:16:10.140 scatter it. They're not going to leave everything right where 1558 01:16:10.180 --> 01:16:12.140 they found it. I mean, they're going to, you know, 1559 01:16:12.439 --> 01:16:15.060 take parts off and, and even animals that people don't 1560 01:16:15.140 --> 01:16:18.770 really understand, don't really think would scavenge on something like that. 1561 01:16:18.909 --> 01:16:22.369 I mean, you have, opossums and even raccoons will scavenge. 1562 01:16:23.010 --> 01:16:25.829 I mean, if they're hungry, you know, and so, um, 1563 01:16:26.909 --> 01:16:30.069 they're not necessarily all the time carnivores, but they're omnivores. 1564 01:16:30.090 --> 01:16:32.289 So they, yeah, they eat meat as well. And, but 1565 01:16:32.310 --> 01:16:33.789 you have, I mean, you got a whole thing of 1566 01:16:33.890 --> 01:16:35.840 vultures that come down and you have, I mean, people 1567 01:16:35.850 --> 01:16:36.880 have seen them on the side of the road. There's 1568 01:16:36.880 --> 01:16:39.420 10 vultures around like a deer carcass. And that thing 1569 01:16:39.439 --> 01:16:41.109 will be gone in a couple of days. And that's a, 1570 01:16:41.220 --> 01:16:43.619 that's your carcass that you can see, you know? 1571 01:16:46.760 --> 01:16:49.420 Well, uh, let's talk about, um, A little bit about 1572 01:16:49.439 --> 01:16:53.359 your podcast. Now, you just celebrated your 150th episode, and 1573 01:16:53.819 --> 01:16:55.890 as luck would have it, you had me on there. 1574 01:16:56.560 --> 01:16:56.770 Yeah. 1575 01:16:57.510 --> 01:17:00.670 That looks like that's been a good run for you. 1576 01:17:01.229 --> 01:17:03.909 I know that was rated way up there in Apple 1577 01:17:03.949 --> 01:17:07.949 Podcasts and things, and you had an all-around good reaction 1578 01:17:07.989 --> 01:17:11.319 to it. Where do you see that going in the future? 1579 01:17:13.199 --> 01:17:16.979 I think I've really settled in as an interviewer and 1580 01:17:17.020 --> 01:17:21.949 learned a lot. interviewing people and the conversation style I 1581 01:17:21.970 --> 01:17:24.210 think is what I enjoy the most and I think 1582 01:17:24.229 --> 01:17:27.100 that's what people enjoy because I do my research on 1583 01:17:27.140 --> 01:17:30.020 guests and I know I try to know as much 1584 01:17:30.060 --> 01:17:32.640 as I can about what we're talking about so that 1585 01:17:32.680 --> 01:17:34.800 I can ask the proper questions and things that people 1586 01:17:34.819 --> 01:17:36.340 want to know but I just like to have a 1587 01:17:36.359 --> 01:17:38.100 conversation like we're having now and just see where it 1588 01:17:38.140 --> 01:17:42.779 goes and I think those make the most interesting conversations 1589 01:17:42.979 --> 01:17:46.079 and also for my guests I want my guests to 1590 01:17:46.100 --> 01:17:48.659 not have the same conversation that they've had 8,000 times 1591 01:17:48.800 --> 01:17:51.739 on other podcasts or other media. Exactly. 1592 01:17:51.899 --> 01:17:54.720 I try to ask different questions, not trying to throw 1593 01:17:54.760 --> 01:17:57.359 your curve ball or anything. I like to pull one 1594 01:17:57.479 --> 01:17:59.500 out of the pouch every now and then that maybe 1595 01:17:59.520 --> 01:18:00.779 you haven't been asked before. 1596 01:18:00.800 --> 01:18:02.239 Yeah. Yeah. 1597 01:18:02.380 --> 01:18:05.020 I mean, there's some overlap in the audiences, but this 1598 01:18:05.060 --> 01:18:07.550 will be a lot of people's first introduction to you. 1599 01:18:07.590 --> 01:18:08.750 So yeah. 1600 01:18:09.029 --> 01:18:11.270 Cover a little old ground there that we've already covered 1601 01:18:11.289 --> 01:18:12.949 when I was on your shows. I've been on with 1602 01:18:12.970 --> 01:18:14.069 you a couple of times, I think. 1603 01:18:14.899 --> 01:18:16.180 I think five times. 1604 01:18:16.239 --> 01:18:17.960 Has it been that many? 1605 01:18:18.039 --> 01:18:19.279 Wow. I think so, yeah. 1606 01:18:19.859 --> 01:18:22.939 And I love the conversational stuff too, just people sitting 1607 01:18:22.960 --> 01:18:26.310 around telling stories, storytelling, if you will, talking to legends 1608 01:18:26.390 --> 01:18:30.609 and ghosts and folklore. Always had a love for that. 1609 01:18:31.010 --> 01:18:33.470 And I wanted to ask you, I thought of it 1610 01:18:33.510 --> 01:18:36.890 earlier and I got back around to it finally. Since 1611 01:18:36.930 --> 01:18:38.970 you're there in Tennessee, have you ever been up to 1612 01:18:39.029 --> 01:18:42.149 historic Jonesboro for the International Storytelling Convention? 1613 01:18:42.979 --> 01:18:44.840 I have not. That is something that's on my list 1614 01:18:44.960 --> 01:18:46.859 because like I was talking about earlier, I love the 1615 01:18:46.890 --> 01:18:51.319 storytelling aspect of the paranormal. And I think, and also 1616 01:18:51.340 --> 01:18:55.340 with being a Tennessee native, I think it's just part 1617 01:18:55.380 --> 01:18:57.760 of our DNA. And I think you would agree coming 1618 01:18:57.779 --> 01:19:02.810 from Appalachia because that tradition came over with the Scottish 1619 01:19:02.850 --> 01:19:05.829 and the Irish that settled in that area. And it's 1620 01:19:05.850 --> 01:19:08.789 kind of been handed down And a lot of what 1621 01:19:08.810 --> 01:19:11.109 people don't understand is a lot of terms that we 1622 01:19:11.369 --> 01:19:16.600 use like boogeyman and things come from those storytelling. And 1623 01:19:16.609 --> 01:19:18.739 a lot of the urban legends and myths that we 1624 01:19:18.800 --> 01:19:21.560 know of as part of American culture or Southern culture 1625 01:19:22.199 --> 01:19:25.920 come from those storytellers. And I find it fascinating, but 1626 01:19:25.939 --> 01:19:30.060 I'd love to go to that storytelling because just, yeah, 1627 01:19:30.100 --> 01:19:33.380 just to go hear some of the incredible things that 1628 01:19:33.420 --> 01:19:36.970 people come up with and the creativity of the storytelling. 1629 01:19:37.300 --> 01:19:41.020 I've never spoken at it, but I've, I've been there and, uh, and, 1630 01:19:41.260 --> 01:19:42.979 and listened to it and drew it on. They have some, 1631 01:19:43.140 --> 01:19:48.029 some fabulous, fabulous storytellers and, uh, Jonesboro historic Jonesboro. They, 1632 01:19:48.090 --> 01:19:51.569 they like for you to say it that way, but, uh, uh, that, 1633 01:19:51.710 --> 01:19:54.069 that whole town is haunted. They're on the main street. 1634 01:19:54.569 --> 01:19:56.890 Every one of those little shops and buildings there has 1635 01:19:56.930 --> 01:19:59.520 some kind of story to it. And one time I'd 1636 01:19:59.539 --> 01:20:02.739 gone up there, this has been back in the nineties. And, uh, 1637 01:20:02.819 --> 01:20:05.819 I had the first digital camera I ever owned. It 1638 01:20:05.859 --> 01:20:08.510 was a, Kodak and I think it had like half 1639 01:20:08.550 --> 01:20:10.989 a megapixel or something like that you know which was 1640 01:20:11.649 --> 01:20:14.170 a big deal at the time but uh had that 1641 01:20:14.250 --> 01:20:17.229 same thing that we talked about uh had problems with 1642 01:20:17.250 --> 01:20:19.829 the batteries right from the start and it seemed like 1643 01:20:19.970 --> 01:20:22.520 anytime I took a picture of a building there would 1644 01:20:22.560 --> 01:20:25.140 be some anomaly sometimes it would be a mist or 1645 01:20:25.239 --> 01:20:28.319 almost like a little cloud and it wasn't any aberration 1646 01:20:28.359 --> 01:20:29.920 in the lens or anything like that because I could 1647 01:20:29.960 --> 01:20:33.020 point at other places and it didn't show up But 1648 01:20:33.159 --> 01:20:35.819 just about all the buildings there had some kind of weird, 1649 01:20:35.840 --> 01:20:38.720 almost looked like a smoke or a mist around them 1650 01:20:38.779 --> 01:20:40.920 or near the top or coming out from under the eave. 1651 01:20:41.760 --> 01:20:45.659 And then went back up into, after I'd been there, 1652 01:20:45.739 --> 01:20:51.510 went on into Damascus, Virginia. The Appalachian Trail passes through there. 1653 01:20:51.750 --> 01:20:56.210 Damascus has a thing called Trade Days where they celebrate, 1654 01:20:56.689 --> 01:20:59.770 I'm sorry, the Trail Days. Trade Days is another thing 1655 01:20:59.829 --> 01:21:03.260 in that area. But they have Appalachian Trail celebration there. 1656 01:21:04.020 --> 01:21:06.699 And I went there and took some pictures and stuff, 1657 01:21:06.739 --> 01:21:08.460 got back. And I was living at the time in 1658 01:21:09.239 --> 01:21:12.359 extreme northeastern Tennessee. I lived up there for a short 1659 01:21:12.399 --> 01:21:15.460 time in a little place called Mountain City. And it 1660 01:21:15.479 --> 01:21:18.760 was kind of equidistant between if you went one direction, 1661 01:21:18.779 --> 01:21:20.420 you could be in Boone, North Carolina. If you went 1662 01:21:20.439 --> 01:21:25.659 the other direction, you were in Abingdon or Damascus, Virginia. 1663 01:21:26.279 --> 01:21:28.590 or you could go another direction and end up in 1664 01:21:28.649 --> 01:21:31.810 johnson city and the tri-cities up there but by the 1665 01:21:31.869 --> 01:21:34.210 time i got back to where i was living that 1666 01:21:34.329 --> 01:21:37.569 that card was completely blank there was not a single 1667 01:21:37.750 --> 01:21:40.369 picture on there and uh i it was one of 1668 01:21:40.390 --> 01:21:43.229 the big cf cards and i sent it to a 1669 01:21:43.270 --> 01:21:46.170 company to do data recovery because i wanted those pictures 1670 01:21:46.409 --> 01:21:48.810 yeah and uh they got in contact with me they're 1671 01:21:48.850 --> 01:21:52.390 like this is the weirdest thing we've ever seen. They're like, 1672 01:21:52.449 --> 01:21:54.449 are you sure this is the card you use? And 1673 01:21:54.489 --> 01:21:56.710 I'm like, yes, I only had one card at that time. 1674 01:21:57.029 --> 01:21:57.210 Yeah. 1675 01:21:57.229 --> 01:21:59.710 And it held like, you know, maybe a hundred pictures 1676 01:21:59.810 --> 01:22:02.850 or something. But, uh, they said, this is never even 1677 01:22:02.890 --> 01:22:07.069 been formatted. This is a completely virgin, completely blank card. 1678 01:22:07.949 --> 01:22:10.720 And I'm like, that's impossible. But yet there it was. 1679 01:22:10.810 --> 01:22:13.180 And I lost all those pictures. I was able to 1680 01:22:13.220 --> 01:22:15.960 look at them, you know, in the viewfinder of it 1681 01:22:16.079 --> 01:22:18.729 and saw those anomalies and stuff. But then, got back, 1682 01:22:18.810 --> 01:22:21.760 plugged it into the computer, nothing there. And it couldn't 1683 01:22:21.800 --> 01:22:24.460 be recovered. I have no explanation. 1684 01:22:25.020 --> 01:22:25.300 Wow. 1685 01:22:25.779 --> 01:22:28.380 Other than I was in the presence of a lot 1686 01:22:28.420 --> 01:22:31.640 of paranormal activity there. Yeah. 1687 01:22:31.699 --> 01:22:33.359 I've heard of that. You're not the first person I've 1688 01:22:33.399 --> 01:22:36.270 heard that that's happened to. Um, I've heard that happen 1689 01:22:36.590 --> 01:22:40.069 quite a bit. Um, certain locations tend to be, uh, 1690 01:22:41.310 --> 01:22:43.869 like that. I've heard of people's laptops crashing and all 1691 01:22:43.890 --> 01:22:47.390 kinds of crazy electronic stuff happening in certain locations. But, um, 1692 01:22:47.840 --> 01:22:51.819 There's actually a Haunted Jonesboro book, and I cannot remember 1693 01:22:51.840 --> 01:22:52.720 the gentleman's name. 1694 01:22:52.739 --> 01:22:56.420 It's probably Charles Edwin Price. I know he writes a 1695 01:22:56.460 --> 01:22:58.439 lot about the cities in Tennessee. I don't know that 1696 01:22:58.500 --> 01:23:00.840 that's the one, but I think he did do a 1697 01:23:00.859 --> 01:23:02.100 book about Haunted Jonesboro. 1698 01:23:02.590 --> 01:23:05.890 Yeah, I think that's who it is because he was 1699 01:23:05.930 --> 01:23:09.369 a newspaper reporter in East Tennessee, and he started writing 1700 01:23:09.390 --> 01:23:11.310 all these paranormal books. Yeah, I believe that's who it's by, 1701 01:23:11.329 --> 01:23:12.569 but I think you can still get it on Amazon 1702 01:23:12.630 --> 01:23:15.350 if you're interested. I have a book that you would 1703 01:23:15.369 --> 01:23:18.770 be interested in. It was, and I randomly found this 1704 01:23:18.819 --> 01:23:20.930 at McKay's. And for anybody that doesn't know what McKay's is, 1705 01:23:21.109 --> 01:23:23.850 it's in Nashville. And there's one in Knoxville. It's a 1706 01:23:23.869 --> 01:23:26.430 huge used bookstore, basically. And they do video games. 1707 01:23:26.449 --> 01:23:28.909 I spent a lot of time in McKay's. Back in 1708 01:23:28.930 --> 01:23:31.810 the day, it was, well, yeah, it was McKay's. And 1709 01:23:31.840 --> 01:23:34.119 then the one in Oak Ridge changed to Mr. K's. 1710 01:23:34.520 --> 01:23:37.079 Same layout, same principle. But the one there in Keystapike 1711 01:23:37.140 --> 01:23:39.020 in Knoxville, I don't know. It may still be there. 1712 01:23:39.680 --> 01:23:41.460 But I spent a lot of time in there. So 1713 01:23:41.500 --> 01:23:42.659 what did you find at McKay's? 1714 01:23:43.260 --> 01:23:46.939 So this was probably a once-in-a-lifetime amazing find. And doing 1715 01:23:47.000 --> 01:23:48.779 research on my own book that I'm writing about Tennessee 1716 01:23:48.819 --> 01:23:50.560 called Small Town Haunts and Legends that will be out 1717 01:23:50.600 --> 01:23:54.640 later this year, I was looking for stories that people 1718 01:23:54.659 --> 01:23:57.590 haven't heard before. And so I found this book, and 1719 01:23:57.619 --> 01:24:02.109 it's a monograph. So it's a really small, self-printed book 1720 01:24:02.170 --> 01:24:05.949 from September of 1966. It's called A Collection of Folklore 1721 01:24:05.989 --> 01:24:10.250 by Undergraduate Students of East Tennessee State University. And it 1722 01:24:10.289 --> 01:24:13.449 was printed by them by the Institute of Regional Studies 1723 01:24:13.850 --> 01:24:17.250 at East Tennessee State in Johnson City. And what they 1724 01:24:17.289 --> 01:24:20.869 did was the students, they sent them out to talk 1725 01:24:20.930 --> 01:24:24.829 to their grandparents, to talk to different older folks in the, 1726 01:24:25.630 --> 01:24:29.880 in the community and to tell different folklore stories. And 1727 01:24:29.949 --> 01:24:34.380 some of them are ghost stories. Um, some of them are, uh, 1728 01:24:34.460 --> 01:24:37.300 just incredible stories of people surviving the war and things 1729 01:24:37.340 --> 01:24:41.279 like that. But it is this incredible story of tales 1730 01:24:41.640 --> 01:24:44.220 from all these different people. And it tells you, um, 1731 01:24:44.899 --> 01:24:47.670 you know, where the person lives, like Hawkins County or 1732 01:24:48.069 --> 01:24:50.470 this city or that city. And it's just this little 1733 01:24:50.529 --> 01:24:52.590 like pamphlet that's maybe 50 pages. 1734 01:24:53.130 --> 01:24:54.829 I would love to read that sometime. 1735 01:24:54.850 --> 01:24:57.090 Yeah, it is awesome. And I'm like, I picked it 1736 01:24:57.149 --> 01:24:58.770 up at McKay's and I was like, are you kidding me? 1737 01:24:59.250 --> 01:25:02.640 Sometimes you can find the strangest things in there. Years 1738 01:25:02.680 --> 01:25:04.380 and years ago at the one in Oak Ridge, they 1739 01:25:04.420 --> 01:25:07.079 had a free book being outside. It was stuff they 1740 01:25:07.100 --> 01:25:08.720 wouldn't buy. If you didn't want to cart it back, 1741 01:25:08.739 --> 01:25:11.279 you could dump it in there. I found a rare 1742 01:25:11.840 --> 01:25:14.739 young adult fiction book that I had heard of and 1743 01:25:14.760 --> 01:25:16.800 never even seen a copy. It was only distributed to 1744 01:25:16.840 --> 01:25:19.579 schools and libraries. I found it in the free books 1745 01:25:20.260 --> 01:25:22.479 and I read it, ended up putting it on eBay 1746 01:25:22.560 --> 01:25:27.479 and I got like $ 420. You never know, but that 1747 01:25:27.520 --> 01:25:28.840 was the way it was in the case. It was 1748 01:25:28.880 --> 01:25:30.689 hit or miss. Sometimes you go in to be the 1749 01:25:30.729 --> 01:25:33.569 same stuff and then other times you'd find a little 1750 01:25:33.609 --> 01:25:36.369 diamond like that. But yeah, I looked up Charles Edwin 1751 01:25:36.430 --> 01:25:40.229 Price real quick, says he was born in 1941 and 1752 01:25:40.430 --> 01:25:44.909 specializes as a freelance writer. in Southern Appalachian folklore, ghost lore, 1753 01:25:45.409 --> 01:25:49.010 local history. He remembers sitting with his grandfather as a 1754 01:25:49.050 --> 01:25:52.630 youngster and listening to tall tales in the past decade. 1755 01:25:52.689 --> 01:25:55.170 I'm not sure when this was written. He's written many 1756 01:25:55.210 --> 01:25:59.800 books of folklore and mystery, including Haunted Tennessee, Ain't's Witches 1757 01:25:59.859 --> 01:26:02.340 and Boogers, The Day They Hung the Elephant. That's, I 1758 01:26:03.840 --> 01:26:06.979 won't say Elizabethan, but it's real close to there. I'd 1759 01:26:07.000 --> 01:26:10.810 Rather Have a Talking Frog, danger train and another thing 1760 01:26:10.840 --> 01:26:14.060 this book and that was a nice segue unintentional to 1761 01:26:14.119 --> 01:26:18.000 something else he wrote a book called the infamous bell 1762 01:26:18.039 --> 01:26:21.399 witch of tennessee yeah you and i talked about that 1763 01:26:21.500 --> 01:26:24.539 when i was on your show uh what's your take 1764 01:26:24.800 --> 01:26:27.119 on the whole bell witch phenomenon i've been down there 1765 01:26:27.140 --> 01:26:29.560 i've been to the bell witch cave there's something there 1766 01:26:29.979 --> 01:26:33.420 i got some strange photographs there too and uh chris 1767 01:26:33.619 --> 01:26:35.739 um can't remember her last name now that her and 1768 01:26:35.760 --> 01:26:40.189 her husband own that farm now she's got books full 1769 01:26:40.229 --> 01:26:43.470 of pictures that she's taken and that people have taken 1770 01:26:43.529 --> 01:26:48.109 and sent to her. Went back decades of strange anomalies there. Kirby, 1771 01:26:48.149 --> 01:26:51.930 Chris Kirby is her lady's name. But go down there 1772 01:26:51.970 --> 01:26:53.720 and see it if you haven't been already. I think 1773 01:26:53.760 --> 01:26:54.880 you said you had been there, right? 1774 01:26:55.699 --> 01:26:59.699 I have. And actually in May, a friend of mine's 1775 01:26:59.739 --> 01:27:02.779 paranormal group, Black Wolf Paranormal, are running the paranormal investigations 1776 01:27:02.800 --> 01:27:05.579 of the cave and the property. So in May, I'm 1777 01:27:05.600 --> 01:27:08.060 going to go be a guest investigator. And they run 1778 01:27:08.100 --> 01:27:12.739 the paranormal investigations as well as the daytime investigations May 1779 01:27:12.760 --> 01:27:16.430 through October. But I've talked a lot about the Bell 1780 01:27:16.470 --> 01:27:19.449 Witch on my show on the Unseen Paranormal. And then 1781 01:27:19.550 --> 01:27:23.789 also I just narrated a story from H.J. Tidy about 1782 01:27:23.829 --> 01:27:26.829 the Bell Witch for the Strange Chapters YouTube channel. And 1783 01:27:27.390 --> 01:27:30.949 talking about the history and the folklore and about the hauntings. 1784 01:27:31.529 --> 01:27:35.069 But I've had Pat Fitzhugh on the show. Pat Fitzhugh, 1785 01:27:35.890 --> 01:27:39.449 he's an expert. on the legend i would say because. 1786 01:27:39.270 --> 01:27:41.710 I've met pat before when i lived in mountain city 1787 01:27:41.750 --> 01:27:44.949 they had something that was going on at uh which 1788 01:27:44.989 --> 01:27:47.189 cave and i went down there to nashville and uh 1789 01:27:47.710 --> 01:27:50.350 met him i think he's written two or three books about. 1790 01:27:50.069 --> 01:27:53.720 It he he has four books now four okay yeah 1791 01:27:53.939 --> 01:27:57.819 and he he's been researching it for 40 years and 1792 01:27:58.079 --> 01:28:00.539 um pat's a great guy the interesting guy he was 1793 01:28:00.600 --> 01:28:02.640 actually a speaker at our expo we had last year 1794 01:28:03.220 --> 01:28:06.279 and the one the year before but um Great guy, 1795 01:28:06.460 --> 01:28:08.859 and he can tell you anything about the legend, the hauntings, 1796 01:28:09.340 --> 01:28:11.640 all of that. I also had the opportunity, the last 1797 01:28:11.659 --> 01:28:14.220 time I had Pat on my show, we actually brought 1798 01:28:14.399 --> 01:28:18.229 on Candy, who's the daughter of the owners of the 1799 01:28:18.310 --> 01:28:21.010 farm and the cave, and she's the head tour guide. 1800 01:28:21.050 --> 01:28:23.609 That's probably the little girl that I saw her picture 1801 01:28:23.770 --> 01:28:26.409 back in the day where she was sitting outside the 1802 01:28:26.569 --> 01:28:28.829 entrance of the cave with a friend of hers and 1803 01:28:28.869 --> 01:28:32.000 had a snake around her neck, looked like a bigger snake, 1804 01:28:32.039 --> 01:28:35.050 like maybe a boa or something. And Chris told me, 1805 01:28:35.069 --> 01:28:36.930 she said, there's no way my daughter would have sat 1806 01:28:36.970 --> 01:28:39.149 there smiling with a snake around her neck. We don't 1807 01:28:39.210 --> 01:28:40.699 know what that was. picture is. 1808 01:28:41.140 --> 01:28:44.119 Yeah. She, uh, she's lived there since she, she was 1809 01:28:44.119 --> 01:28:46.500 12 is what she told me. And she is in 1810 01:28:46.520 --> 01:28:49.430 her thirties now. And, um, but she told some stories 1811 01:28:49.489 --> 01:28:52.050 about things that happened in the cave. Uh, things happen 1812 01:28:52.069 --> 01:28:55.270 on a regular basis in the cave to people paranormal wise, 1813 01:28:55.689 --> 01:28:59.199 as far as the bell family and the story. I 1814 01:28:59.260 --> 01:29:02.100 think it's just a legend and a story and the 1815 01:29:02.140 --> 01:29:04.439 town of Adams have embraced it. And they have a 1816 01:29:04.520 --> 01:29:07.390 festival every year that brings in lots of people and 1817 01:29:07.409 --> 01:29:09.710 it brings in lots of tourism. And it's a great story. 1818 01:29:09.750 --> 01:29:12.810 It's an interesting, fascinating story. Um, but you can't prove 1819 01:29:12.869 --> 01:29:13.180 any of it. 1820 01:29:14.250 --> 01:29:16.850 So, um, a lot of people, the best legends and 1821 01:29:16.869 --> 01:29:18.770 the best folklore, that's the way it is. 1822 01:29:19.229 --> 01:29:21.409 Yeah. Uh, the biggest thing that people want to point 1823 01:29:21.430 --> 01:29:24.130 towards is Andrew Jackson was supposedly gone there and spent 1824 01:29:24.149 --> 01:29:27.640 the night. Um, there is no evidence whatsoever that Andrew 1825 01:29:27.649 --> 01:29:32.739 Jackson ever wrote about the Bell Witch situation with the 1826 01:29:32.800 --> 01:29:35.920 actual witch and the Bell family. Now, Andrew Jackson did 1827 01:29:36.000 --> 01:29:39.220 have a law office in Adams, Tennessee, and he more 1828 01:29:39.260 --> 01:29:43.199 than likely knew the Bell family. But there's nothing to 1829 01:29:43.260 --> 01:29:46.930 say that he actually ever went to the farm. Actually, 1830 01:29:46.970 --> 01:29:48.989 when they claimed that he went to the farm and stayed, 1831 01:29:49.689 --> 01:29:51.789 he was in, I believe, New Orleans at the time. 1832 01:29:52.630 --> 01:29:56.960 And he wasn't anywhere around Adams, Tennessee. But I think 1833 01:29:57.039 --> 01:30:01.380 also if there is any truth to what happened with 1834 01:30:01.420 --> 01:30:05.329 the Bell family, with the one daughter being tortured by 1835 01:30:05.369 --> 01:30:09.029 the spirit, you know, back then they didn't know what 1836 01:30:09.689 --> 01:30:12.010 schizophrenia and things like that were. I mean, you're talking about, 1837 01:30:12.189 --> 01:30:17.149 you know, early 1800s, late 1700s, early 1800s. And they 1838 01:30:17.180 --> 01:30:21.239 didn't know about that because it only centered around John Bell, 1839 01:30:21.260 --> 01:30:23.340 the father and the older daughter. 1840 01:30:24.300 --> 01:30:26.279 And, um, Betsy, I believe was her name. 1841 01:30:26.300 --> 01:30:30.779 Yeah. Betsy Bell. And, uh, she, there, there's theories that 1842 01:30:31.060 --> 01:30:32.979 there was a curse put on them by Kate Bates 1843 01:30:33.779 --> 01:30:37.529 or Kate Bates, whatever, whichever folklore you want to listen 1844 01:30:37.550 --> 01:30:41.029 to that her name is spelled two different ways. Um, 1845 01:30:41.529 --> 01:30:46.029 Kate Bates or Bates owned an adjacent farm and she 1846 01:30:46.069 --> 01:30:47.659 was married with a husband. She was not a witch. 1847 01:30:47.800 --> 01:30:51.689 She did not live in a cave. her, back then, 1848 01:30:51.810 --> 01:30:54.729 she wouldn't have been dealing with any property disputes. That 1849 01:30:54.750 --> 01:30:56.630 would have been with her husband. Could she have put 1850 01:30:56.670 --> 01:30:59.489 a hex on him? Yeah. But, yeah, she wouldn't have 1851 01:30:59.550 --> 01:31:00.909 had a beef with John Bell. It would have been 1852 01:31:00.930 --> 01:31:02.229 her husband that would have had a beef with him. 1853 01:31:02.890 --> 01:31:05.649 And so there's nothing to prove that, you know, that happened. 1854 01:31:06.029 --> 01:31:07.850 And as far as the cave goes, the cave really 1855 01:31:07.909 --> 01:31:11.310 has nothing to do with the actual legend and folklore 1856 01:31:11.970 --> 01:31:14.329 other than that it's on the property. And what they, 1857 01:31:14.350 --> 01:31:17.310 even Candy and all these people have told me, the 1858 01:31:17.350 --> 01:31:19.510 reason that they believe that the cave is haunted is 1859 01:31:19.550 --> 01:31:22.670 because when they built the highway through Adams, they found 1860 01:31:22.729 --> 01:31:25.449 some Native American graves where they were digging to put 1861 01:31:25.470 --> 01:31:29.470 the highway. Well, they relocated some of these into the 1862 01:31:29.510 --> 01:31:32.470 cave at the time because above the cave on the property, 1863 01:31:32.510 --> 01:31:34.289 they actually have Indian mounds, burial mounds. 1864 01:31:36.770 --> 01:31:41.329 There is a Cherokee box grave there in the cave, supposedly. 1865 01:31:41.409 --> 01:31:44.329 I mean, it's just a hole with a stone lined 1866 01:31:44.350 --> 01:31:46.630 around in a square shape, but that's the story that's 1867 01:31:46.689 --> 01:31:48.369 told that that's a Cherokee box grave. 1868 01:31:49.229 --> 01:31:51.350 And that was actually, from what I understand, was put 1869 01:31:51.390 --> 01:31:55.449 there when they moved that grave from the highway area. 1870 01:31:55.770 --> 01:31:57.430 That grave was actually put in there the way they 1871 01:31:57.470 --> 01:31:59.890 found it. So they found that box grave where they 1872 01:31:59.909 --> 01:32:01.609 were carving out to the highway, and they just moved 1873 01:32:01.630 --> 01:32:02.949 it and put it in the cave the way they 1874 01:32:02.989 --> 01:32:05.779 found it. The bones have long since been removed, I think, 1875 01:32:05.859 --> 01:32:11.119 by the Tennessee State Archaeologist, removed the bones. But the 1876 01:32:11.239 --> 01:32:14.000 one thing that I've heard, and it's haunted, things happen 1877 01:32:14.020 --> 01:32:16.100 all the time to tour guides and things. So, yeah, 1878 01:32:16.119 --> 01:32:17.720 I think there's definitely something to the cave being haunted. 1879 01:32:18.199 --> 01:32:20.319 But they think that it's more towards the Native American 1880 01:32:20.359 --> 01:32:24.520 side of things with the mounds and that type of stuff. 1881 01:32:24.680 --> 01:32:25.800 One of the biggest legends that's come out of the 1882 01:32:25.819 --> 01:32:29.539 cave is that if you take anything out of the cave, arrowhead, stone, anything, 1883 01:32:30.430 --> 01:32:33.869 that you will have bad luck. And I asked Candy 1884 01:32:33.890 --> 01:32:35.850 this straight up, and she said they get lots of 1885 01:32:35.909 --> 01:32:38.529 packages back every year of people sending rocks back. 1886 01:32:39.050 --> 01:32:41.770 Chris Kirby told me that, that sometimes they'd come home, 1887 01:32:42.029 --> 01:32:44.250 they'd block the gate when they're not there, of course. 1888 01:32:44.270 --> 01:32:44.350 Yeah. 1889 01:32:44.920 --> 01:32:47.180 She said sometimes there'd be stuff laying in the driveway 1890 01:32:47.220 --> 01:32:48.899 with a note tied to it. Like, would you please 1891 01:32:48.939 --> 01:32:50.079 put this back in the cave? 1892 01:32:50.319 --> 01:32:53.239 Yeah. And Candy told me that whenever they opened it 1893 01:32:53.279 --> 01:32:55.340 back up after COVID, because they were shut down for 1894 01:32:55.359 --> 01:32:57.479 two years for COVID. She said the first week they 1895 01:32:57.520 --> 01:32:59.899 opened back up, this lady and her family came from 1896 01:32:59.960 --> 01:33:02.500 out of town. They came and did the cave tour 1897 01:33:02.539 --> 01:33:05.180 during the day. They went and ate at a local 1898 01:33:05.220 --> 01:33:08.149 restaurant and the lady fell and broke her leg and 1899 01:33:08.189 --> 01:33:09.619 had to go to the emergency room and have cast 1900 01:33:09.649 --> 01:33:13.720 put on and cast and all. Before they left town, 1901 01:33:13.760 --> 01:33:17.079 they came back to the farm, and her husband got 1902 01:33:17.100 --> 01:33:18.890 out of the car and explained what happened and gave 1903 01:33:18.930 --> 01:33:21.329 them a rock that the lady had taken out of 1904 01:33:21.350 --> 01:33:22.930 the cave. And they believe that she broke her leg 1905 01:33:22.970 --> 01:33:24.149 because she took the rock out of the cave. 1906 01:33:24.630 --> 01:33:27.210 There's probably a lot of stories like that. I don't 1907 01:33:27.229 --> 01:33:29.569 know if you've ever been down to Key West, but 1908 01:33:29.609 --> 01:33:33.069 they have Robert the Doll on display down there. And 1909 01:33:33.210 --> 01:33:36.810 the walls are lined with pictures that people took of 1910 01:33:36.850 --> 01:33:40.109 him without asking his permission and had bad luck or 1911 01:33:40.149 --> 01:33:42.739 some sort of misfortune, and they send them back. And 1912 01:33:42.939 --> 01:33:45.579 the people that curate that museum started putting them on 1913 01:33:45.619 --> 01:33:47.220 the wall. There's, there's hundreds of them there. 1914 01:33:48.000 --> 01:33:52.149 Yeah. And the petrified forest, um, if you take the, 1915 01:33:52.229 --> 01:33:54.569 the park service actually gets packaged back with pieces of 1916 01:33:54.609 --> 01:33:56.189 petrified wood that people have taken out of the park, 1917 01:33:56.229 --> 01:33:58.670 even though it's illegal to take them. But once people 1918 01:33:58.689 --> 01:34:00.800 have taken them, they attribute their bad luck for them 1919 01:34:00.840 --> 01:34:03.539 taking pieces of petrified wood out of the park. Yeah. 1920 01:34:03.720 --> 01:34:07.359 I've heard that story too. So the, the, the, Moral 1921 01:34:07.399 --> 01:34:09.909 of that is don't take anything when you go anywhere. 1922 01:34:09.930 --> 01:34:14.310 Don't take any souvenirs because you might get a souvenir 1923 01:34:14.350 --> 01:34:16.329 that you weren't looking for attached to that. 1924 01:34:16.850 --> 01:34:19.489 Yeah. But the kind of thing with the Bell family 1925 01:34:19.510 --> 01:34:22.409 and the Bell Witch stuff, it's kind of lost to 1926 01:34:22.449 --> 01:34:25.229 history now. You know, it's like the telephone game. It's 1927 01:34:25.250 --> 01:34:28.050 been passed down from so many years, you know, 200 years. 1928 01:34:29.369 --> 01:34:31.029 Who knows what was true with the Bell family and 1929 01:34:31.050 --> 01:34:34.199 what wasn't. But it's an amazing myth and legend. And 1930 01:34:34.600 --> 01:34:38.279 the cave is awesome just as a cave. But then 1931 01:34:38.340 --> 01:34:41.500 when you throw the hauntings and the paranormal stuff going on, 1932 01:34:41.539 --> 01:34:43.380 it makes it even more interesting. And I'm excited to 1933 01:34:43.420 --> 01:34:46.600 be a guest investigator because I've never investigated the cave. 1934 01:34:46.930 --> 01:34:49.829 Yeah, that's going to be fascinating. I'm looking forward to 1935 01:34:49.850 --> 01:34:54.189 hearing about that. But especially growing up in Tennessee, it 1936 01:34:54.250 --> 01:34:58.050 was just such a part of our local heritage. Even 1937 01:34:58.069 --> 01:35:00.569 though I was in East Tennessee, I talked about that 1938 01:35:00.710 --> 01:35:03.369 on your show, how there was a game there that 1939 01:35:03.409 --> 01:35:07.289 the school kids played, maybe still do similar to bloody Mary, 1940 01:35:07.350 --> 01:35:09.609 but it was the bell witch. You go into the 1941 01:35:09.710 --> 01:35:12.579 room with the light off and say, I don't believe 1942 01:35:12.619 --> 01:35:14.600 in the bell witch three times. And she'd come out 1943 01:35:14.619 --> 01:35:17.760 of the mirror and scratch you. So just an interesting 1944 01:35:17.800 --> 01:35:20.000 piece of very Tennessee centric folklore. 1945 01:35:20.819 --> 01:35:22.119 Yeah. And we did the same thing when I was 1946 01:35:22.159 --> 01:35:23.380 a kid, it was the bell witch. It was never 1947 01:35:23.420 --> 01:35:24.420 bloody Mary. Yeah. 1948 01:35:24.460 --> 01:35:27.409 I didn't, didn't hear bloody Mary until I was much older. And, uh, 1949 01:35:27.909 --> 01:35:30.909 heard that from kids that were from other places, but yeah, 1950 01:35:31.050 --> 01:35:33.170 the Bell Witch was our local variant of that, and 1951 01:35:34.329 --> 01:35:39.750 up the road a ways in Powell or Claxton, going 1952 01:35:39.789 --> 01:35:42.439 up Clinton Highway out in Knoxville, there was a place 1953 01:35:42.529 --> 01:35:45.880 up there where there had been an old motor court 1954 01:35:45.920 --> 01:35:49.239 style hotel there, and somebody had been in there after 1955 01:35:49.260 --> 01:35:51.380 it had closed down in the pool and had drowned, 1956 01:35:52.079 --> 01:35:54.300 and they had a similar story about that, that you 1957 01:35:54.319 --> 01:35:57.020 could go and sit across the highway from that, and 1958 01:35:57.640 --> 01:35:59.359 say that you didn't believe in it and you would 1959 01:35:59.399 --> 01:36:01.739 hear them splashing around in the water there even though 1960 01:36:01.760 --> 01:36:05.060 the pool was long gone yeah so i think that's 1961 01:36:05.119 --> 01:36:08.500 another like the telephone game of vanishing hitchhiker and all 1962 01:36:08.539 --> 01:36:12.439 that crybaby bridge and yeah the white lady that walks 1963 01:36:12.520 --> 01:36:14.819 on the side of the highway every little community in 1964 01:36:14.859 --> 01:36:18.020 the south's got a crybaby bridge i think and there's 1965 01:36:18.039 --> 01:36:21.239 just a little variation in the story but it's it's 1966 01:36:21.300 --> 01:36:24.060 the same story and i think somewhere at some point 1967 01:36:24.079 --> 01:36:27.670 it did happen that's just been passed along and redone 1968 01:36:27.810 --> 01:36:31.109 to fit the local area so people know what you're talking. 1969 01:36:30.869 --> 01:36:33.590 About yeah i find this fascinating because you can you 1970 01:36:33.609 --> 01:36:36.029 can even go to stories like the razor blades and 1971 01:36:36.069 --> 01:36:38.550 candy that can be they've traced that back to one 1972 01:36:38.590 --> 01:36:41.810 story that happened actually in the 1970s and unfortunately a 1973 01:36:41.850 --> 01:36:44.369 guy did it to his own kids but now it's 1974 01:36:44.409 --> 01:36:46.510 become this ubiquitous thing that people are out there putting 1975 01:36:46.529 --> 01:36:47.710 razor blades and candy. 1976 01:36:48.060 --> 01:36:53.100 And razor blades in apples pens and candy bars things 1977 01:36:53.140 --> 01:36:56.039 like that and i remember even I don't think they 1978 01:36:56.079 --> 01:36:57.380 did it when I was a kid, but in the 1979 01:36:57.840 --> 01:37:01.680 early to mid 80s, Park West Hospital there in Knoxville 1980 01:37:01.720 --> 01:37:04.100 on Halloween, you could bring your kids candy back there 1981 01:37:04.119 --> 01:37:05.819 and they would x-ray it to make sure there was 1982 01:37:05.880 --> 01:37:08.619 no metallic objects in there. So again, that's one of 1983 01:37:08.640 --> 01:37:11.979 those that was passed around. And yeah, the guy that 1984 01:37:12.470 --> 01:37:14.270 did it to his kids, I think he poisoned a 1985 01:37:14.329 --> 01:37:15.750 pixie stick or something like that. 1986 01:37:16.029 --> 01:37:16.250 Yeah. 1987 01:37:16.489 --> 01:37:19.010 Ended up killing his son and they traced it back 1988 01:37:19.050 --> 01:37:22.810 to him. It was an attempted murder as insurance fraud, 1989 01:37:22.850 --> 01:37:25.850 but again, that's how those urban legends get started. And 1990 01:37:25.930 --> 01:37:29.409 it goes nationwide and probably in other countries too. 1991 01:37:30.130 --> 01:37:32.970 Yeah. Yeah. I just find, I find it fascinating, especially 1992 01:37:32.989 --> 01:37:35.229 when you can trace them back and how they, it 1993 01:37:35.350 --> 01:37:37.880 changes and morphs depending on the culture of where you're 1994 01:37:37.899 --> 01:37:40.479 at in the country as well. And, uh, so I've 1995 01:37:40.699 --> 01:37:43.100 with the paranormal and the reason I love doing the podcast, 1996 01:37:43.140 --> 01:37:46.800 especially strange chapters. Now, uh, it was sharing chapters. I'm 1997 01:37:46.819 --> 01:37:50.100 partnered up with authors and I'm narrating, uh, stories out 1998 01:37:50.119 --> 01:37:53.409 of their books. And, um, And I just find the 1999 01:37:53.729 --> 01:37:58.880 storytelling of the paranormal fascinating as well, from hearing the legends, 2000 01:37:59.149 --> 01:38:01.859 but also hearing individual stories of what's happened to them 2001 01:38:01.960 --> 01:38:06.600 paranormal-wise and their experiences with either hauntings or Bigfoot or 2002 01:38:07.500 --> 01:38:09.760 things like that. I just find the stories all fascinating. 2003 01:38:10.000 --> 01:38:13.220 Yeah, and that was the impetus behind Strange Things in 2004 01:38:13.239 --> 01:38:16.050 the Woods. I had an epiphany at my granny's funeral, 2005 01:38:16.090 --> 01:38:18.260 the one I was talking about. I was 13 years old. 2006 01:38:19.649 --> 01:38:22.079 And I just, you know, was standing there paying my 2007 01:38:22.119 --> 01:38:24.300 respects and observing her in her coffin and thinking about 2008 01:38:24.859 --> 01:38:27.550 all those legends, all those tales, all those stories and 2009 01:38:27.590 --> 01:38:29.970 things she told me. They died right there with her. 2010 01:38:30.100 --> 01:38:34.539 because even within her own family you know my mom 2011 01:38:34.600 --> 01:38:36.739 and some of her brothers and things maybe knew a 2012 01:38:36.779 --> 01:38:39.689 little bit of that but my cousins even less so 2013 01:38:40.090 --> 01:38:41.810 but I got the brunt of it because you know 2014 01:38:41.869 --> 01:38:44.470 I was the special child with a veil over his 2015 01:38:44.510 --> 01:38:46.649 face when I was born and I thought you know 2016 01:38:46.689 --> 01:38:49.439 I'm not going to let that happen So use not 2017 01:38:49.500 --> 01:38:51.890 only some of her stories, but other people's stories that 2018 01:38:51.949 --> 01:38:54.350 I am writing a book about her. And I just, 2019 01:38:54.770 --> 01:38:56.770 I wish now that I hadn't been afraid of her 2020 01:38:56.810 --> 01:38:58.909 when I was little. And I wish I'd had at 2021 01:38:58.989 --> 01:39:02.949 least another 13 years with her because that's the senior 2022 01:39:02.979 --> 01:39:06.859 citizens are such a wealth of knowledge. I've talked about that. 2023 01:39:07.039 --> 01:39:08.880 When I do book readings and things, I go to 2024 01:39:08.939 --> 01:39:12.100 different places. I've gone into like a old folks home 2025 01:39:12.159 --> 01:39:15.890 or senior center and read from one of my books. 2026 01:39:16.609 --> 01:39:19.189 And some people are like, oh, well, there's no bingo tonight. 2027 01:39:19.210 --> 01:39:20.810 You know, they get up and leave or they sit 2028 01:39:20.829 --> 01:39:25.319 there crocheting or whatever. But usually there's one or two 2029 01:39:25.359 --> 01:39:27.939 people that will hang back. And I know what's about 2030 01:39:27.979 --> 01:39:30.500 to happen. They'll wait till the room kind of empties 2031 01:39:30.600 --> 01:39:32.279 out and then they'll sidle up to me and say, 2032 01:39:33.000 --> 01:39:35.520 you know, that reminded me of something that happened to 2033 01:39:35.560 --> 01:39:38.079 me when I was a boy or a story that 2034 01:39:38.140 --> 01:39:41.010 I heard from my dad or my granddad. You know, again, 2035 01:39:41.020 --> 01:39:43.949 these may be stories that they've never told anybody that 2036 01:39:43.970 --> 01:39:47.390 they've never talked about. When they're gone, it's gone. So 2037 01:39:47.890 --> 01:39:51.750 I like helping build a legacy that way. And Strange 2038 01:39:51.789 --> 01:39:55.020 Things Out of the Woods, that was stories from friends 2039 01:39:55.100 --> 01:39:57.680 and family and friends and family and things. But about 2040 01:39:57.840 --> 01:40:01.020 probably 95% of the people in that book have passed on. 2041 01:40:01.579 --> 01:40:04.779 Yet I'm able to let their stories live on through 2042 01:40:05.000 --> 01:40:07.699 my chronicling of it. And, you know, that's a great 2043 01:40:07.739 --> 01:40:10.949 mantle to assume. And I enjoy that. And I do 2044 01:40:10.949 --> 01:40:13.229 100 volumes of it if I've got time. 2045 01:40:13.930 --> 01:40:14.069 Yeah. 2046 01:40:14.090 --> 01:40:14.189 Yeah. 2047 01:40:14.640 --> 01:40:17.279 And I look at paranormal investigating in a similar way 2048 01:40:17.819 --> 01:40:21.079 as well, that we're possibly connecting to these people in 2049 01:40:21.119 --> 01:40:24.180 the past that may be forgotten about, if not for 2050 01:40:24.239 --> 01:40:26.819 us investigating and trying to contact them and tell their story. 2051 01:40:27.479 --> 01:40:31.090 Absolutely. And making sure that the stories live on. And 2052 01:40:31.250 --> 01:40:34.289 I'm doing that with my YouTube channel, Among the Missing, 2053 01:40:34.329 --> 01:40:36.989 and a lot of these people that have never been 2054 01:40:37.090 --> 01:40:39.569 found and things, they're kind of forgotten about. I mean, 2055 01:40:39.590 --> 01:40:43.149 you'll have a big case. in the media like Gabby 2056 01:40:43.170 --> 01:40:47.970 Petito or somebody like that, that just, it fades away 2057 01:40:48.050 --> 01:40:49.909 after a while and people kind of forget, but you know, 2058 01:40:49.930 --> 01:40:52.729 the families, the loved ones, the friends of those people, 2059 01:40:53.109 --> 01:40:55.850 they don't forget. So I think it's important to keep 2060 01:40:55.899 --> 01:40:59.039 the memory of those people out there because there's a 2061 01:40:59.079 --> 01:41:01.979 family somewhere that are friends that would like to have 2062 01:41:02.060 --> 01:41:05.100 some sort of closure and somewhere. I still think in 2063 01:41:05.119 --> 01:41:08.739 a lot of these cases, somebody knows something, particularly in 2064 01:41:08.800 --> 01:41:11.239 cases where there seems to be foul play involved. 2065 01:41:12.180 --> 01:41:15.000 Yeah. And just because they're not famous or the person 2066 01:41:15.020 --> 01:41:17.189 wasn't famous or the media didn't pick up on it, 2067 01:41:17.220 --> 01:41:19.420 doesn't mean that their story is not just as important 2068 01:41:20.000 --> 01:41:22.460 as those ones that make it a big stories. Yeah. 2069 01:41:22.579 --> 01:41:25.859 And I've said that to me, one missing person is 2070 01:41:25.920 --> 01:41:28.890 not any more or less important than any other missing person. 2071 01:41:28.949 --> 01:41:32.409 And that's my true criteria. They're missing and they're a 2072 01:41:32.449 --> 01:41:35.529 person and then we'll talk about it, but I don't 2073 01:41:35.550 --> 01:41:37.729 know what it is. There's certain cases like that, that 2074 01:41:37.789 --> 01:41:40.729 just catch the media eye and they run with it. 2075 01:41:40.829 --> 01:41:44.029 And then there's, stories that are just as fascinating. And again, 2076 01:41:44.109 --> 01:41:47.109 just as important to the family and friends of those 2077 01:41:47.170 --> 01:41:51.489 missing people that maybe get local coverage, if that even, 2078 01:41:51.810 --> 01:41:55.619 so it's, it's kind of a catch 22 there. Yeah. 2079 01:41:55.939 --> 01:41:56.199 Yeah. 2080 01:41:56.500 --> 01:41:59.779 And, uh, you mentioned, uh, strange chapters there. Um, how 2081 01:41:59.800 --> 01:42:03.439 many episodes of that have you done and where's that going, 2082 01:42:03.680 --> 01:42:04.380 going forward? 2083 01:42:04.840 --> 01:42:07.600 Uh, so I, I think this week's episode is 18 2084 01:42:07.600 --> 01:42:12.979 that I've done. Um, if the stories are short from 2085 01:42:13.020 --> 01:42:15.060 that author, if they're the stories that they give me 2086 01:42:15.119 --> 01:42:17.100 are short, then I will do them in one episode. 2087 01:42:17.520 --> 01:42:19.539 I'm trying to keep it between 20 and 30 minutes 2088 01:42:19.619 --> 01:42:23.600 so that it's, you know, short, um, uh, short listen 2089 01:42:23.640 --> 01:42:26.770 or watch on YouTube. Um, if, if the stories are 2090 01:42:26.810 --> 01:42:29.130 longer than that, then I've been doing different parts. So 2091 01:42:29.149 --> 01:42:32.649 I'll have, you know, like with HJ tidy, um, those 2092 01:42:32.689 --> 01:42:34.550 stories were a little bit longer about the bell, which 2093 01:42:34.630 --> 01:42:37.470 about the Sally house and about, uh, myrtle's plantation. Cause 2094 01:42:37.489 --> 01:42:39.770 there's a lot of history and the haunting stuff in there. 2095 01:42:40.369 --> 01:42:41.810 And so I did those as like a three part 2096 01:42:41.869 --> 01:42:44.270 series and put that out over the course of a 2097 01:42:44.270 --> 01:42:46.590 week and a half. And those episodes end up being 2098 01:42:46.609 --> 01:42:50.600 about 15 minutes long. But there is a video element 2099 01:42:50.640 --> 01:42:53.140 that I do on YouTube that I use AI for 2100 01:42:53.180 --> 01:42:56.420 to do images and the pictures are moving. So it's 2101 01:42:56.439 --> 01:42:58.800 kind of interesting there. But it's also put out as 2102 01:42:58.840 --> 01:43:01.979 a podcast where people can just listen anywhere they listen 2103 01:43:02.000 --> 01:43:04.560 to podcasts on Apple or Spotify or any of the 2104 01:43:04.640 --> 01:43:08.210 other places that you get podcasts. But YouTube, it's really 2105 01:43:08.250 --> 01:43:11.510 taken off. and uh i have uh i think there's 2106 01:43:11.510 --> 01:43:14.399 5 000 views already and like over 500 watch hours 2107 01:43:14.489 --> 01:43:17.399 and so it's actually doing really well uh to be 2108 01:43:17.439 --> 01:43:19.140 that young of a podcast. 2109 01:43:19.439 --> 01:43:21.460 Yeah sounds like it's doing great out of the gate 2110 01:43:21.520 --> 01:43:24.279 and i'm looking forward to to see where you go 2111 01:43:24.520 --> 01:43:27.840 over there with that and uh hopefully getting introduced to 2112 01:43:27.859 --> 01:43:29.560 a lot of authors that i haven't heard of i 2113 01:43:29.579 --> 01:43:33.819 think that's important too because again i've been fortunate on 2114 01:43:33.890 --> 01:43:37.670 amazon i've had several best sellers but Sometimes it's hard 2115 01:43:37.689 --> 01:43:40.729 to separate the wheat from the chaff or the signal 2116 01:43:40.750 --> 01:43:42.939 from the noise. I mean, there's millions of books over 2117 01:43:42.979 --> 01:43:46.979 there and there's some great diamonds in the rough, some 2118 01:43:47.020 --> 01:43:49.460 great authors that people have never heard of and stuff. 2119 01:43:49.920 --> 01:43:52.520 So shows like yours, you know, you can bring those 2120 01:43:52.560 --> 01:43:55.319 to the fore and help them get a little bit 2121 01:43:55.359 --> 01:43:57.880 of discovery and help them find their audience, especially people 2122 01:43:57.920 --> 01:44:00.439 that are struggling. I hate to see that people that 2123 01:44:00.479 --> 01:44:03.569 are doing well and decide, you know, I'm never going 2124 01:44:03.590 --> 01:44:05.649 to be able to do anything with this and just 2125 01:44:05.710 --> 01:44:08.319 give up. When there's still stories to be told and 2126 01:44:08.340 --> 01:44:12.289 that goes for, for fiction and even poetry as well. 2127 01:44:12.449 --> 01:44:15.590 And you know, young adult fiction, any genre can be 2128 01:44:15.789 --> 01:44:18.289 great if you find the right audience for it. And that's, 2129 01:44:18.970 --> 01:44:22.210 I think that's the thing with the paranormal and missing 2130 01:44:22.229 --> 01:44:24.069 people and things like that. The audience is there and 2131 01:44:24.090 --> 01:44:27.060 they're hungry for it. But again, you've got to do 2132 01:44:27.109 --> 01:44:29.409 something to be able to shine a light on it. 2133 01:44:29.420 --> 01:44:33.600 And I'm not that good at self-promotion. It's just, I'm 2134 01:44:34.260 --> 01:44:36.239 the way I, took care of it was to go 2135 01:44:36.340 --> 01:44:39.140 on shows like yours or to go basically anywhere they'd 2136 01:44:39.180 --> 01:44:42.359 have me. I've been on coast to coast and been 2137 01:44:42.399 --> 01:44:44.739 on Clyde Lewis several times as a guest. And that's 2138 01:44:45.079 --> 01:44:47.100 how I ended up with this show on his ground 2139 01:44:47.119 --> 01:44:51.180 zero radio network. Uh, apparently people enjoy listening to me talk. 2140 01:44:51.239 --> 01:44:52.520 So there you go. 2141 01:44:52.880 --> 01:44:54.800 Yeah. And I, I'm like you, I hear a lot 2142 01:44:54.819 --> 01:44:57.659 about my voice cause it's deep and, and I don't 2143 01:44:57.699 --> 01:45:00.979 have much of an accent and, you know, so, um, 2144 01:45:01.430 --> 01:45:03.010 that's part of, that was part of my motivation to 2145 01:45:03.050 --> 01:45:06.119 get into narrating, uh, Because people are asking me, when 2146 01:45:06.140 --> 01:45:08.260 are you going to do something like that? And also, 2147 01:45:08.279 --> 01:45:11.340 like you were talking about, I read so many books 2148 01:45:11.560 --> 01:45:13.979 doing research and reading ghost stories. And even having guests 2149 01:45:14.039 --> 01:45:16.079 on my show, I have a lot of paranormal authors 2150 01:45:16.119 --> 01:45:19.119 on my show. And we can't tell all the stories 2151 01:45:19.180 --> 01:45:21.949 in the hour on the Unseen Paranormal. But I read 2152 01:45:22.010 --> 01:45:25.789 all these amazing stories and these amazing firsthand encounters in 2153 01:45:25.810 --> 01:45:28.050 their books. And this just gives me another way to 2154 01:45:28.090 --> 01:45:30.689 share them. And at first, I thought, am I going 2155 01:45:30.710 --> 01:45:34.310 to enjoy narrating? And actually, I really, really do enjoy it. 2156 01:45:35.489 --> 01:45:37.689 I had no idea that I could do it until 2157 01:45:37.750 --> 01:45:39.449 I did it and people wanted more. 2158 01:45:40.369 --> 01:45:42.949 Yeah. And it's crazy. Like even through 18 episodes that 2159 01:45:42.970 --> 01:45:46.140 I've recorded of strange chapters from the very first one, 2160 01:45:46.149 --> 01:45:48.439 that was a little bit of a struggle getting the 2161 01:45:48.479 --> 01:45:50.899 timing right. And you know, all these other, the cadence 2162 01:45:50.939 --> 01:45:54.659 and all this other stuff. I feel like now the 2163 01:45:54.699 --> 01:45:56.659 episode I just put out, I've kind of found my 2164 01:45:56.720 --> 01:45:59.180 groove and got in the groove and in the niche, 2165 01:45:59.600 --> 01:46:00.960 but I love it because I get to learn more 2166 01:46:00.979 --> 01:46:05.710 about the paranormal while entertaining other people. but also, like 2167 01:46:05.750 --> 01:46:07.829 you were talking about, shine a light on some of 2168 01:46:07.850 --> 01:46:10.310 these authors' books, and hopefully the show will help them 2169 01:46:10.369 --> 01:46:14.470 sell at least a few copies and gain a different 2170 01:46:14.550 --> 01:46:16.569 audience that never would have known about them to begin with. 2171 01:46:17.470 --> 01:46:21.250 Yeah, and that's a great thing. I've inspired other people 2172 01:46:21.289 --> 01:46:25.979 to write. Cisco Murdoch, for one, the book that she 2173 01:46:26.020 --> 01:46:28.500 and I did together, We're All Children in the Wilderness 2174 01:46:28.539 --> 01:46:31.279 of the Afterlife, a guided tour through a haunted life. 2175 01:46:31.300 --> 01:46:33.000 It took me two years to learn to say that 2176 01:46:33.119 --> 01:46:36.140 title without Tripping over my tongue. But it was. It 2177 01:46:36.149 --> 01:46:37.880 was a great experience. I mean, she did all the 2178 01:46:37.920 --> 01:46:41.659 heavy lifting. It's her stories. But I did like a 2179 01:46:41.680 --> 01:46:44.180 color commentary. I'd come along behind her and have an 2180 01:46:44.260 --> 01:46:47.140 anecdote or something. But, you know, I encourage you to 2181 01:46:47.199 --> 01:46:50.770 do that. And I think that if I hadn't, she 2182 01:46:50.810 --> 01:46:52.810 wouldn't have done it. She even said I kept after her. 2183 01:46:52.869 --> 01:46:55.850 She's had all these stories that I'd heard from being 2184 01:46:55.909 --> 01:46:57.069 on her show. And so I said, you've got to 2185 01:46:57.090 --> 01:46:58.170 write a book. You've got to write a book. 2186 01:46:58.189 --> 01:46:58.850 You've got to write a book. 2187 01:46:59.529 --> 01:47:02.569 And finally, after years of that, she's like, okay, I'll 2188 01:47:02.590 --> 01:47:05.630 do it. But you're coming with me. And there you go. 2189 01:47:05.789 --> 01:47:08.689 And Mark Anthony Wyatt, another guy I know, a friend 2190 01:47:08.710 --> 01:47:11.689 of mine from Cornwall, UK, I encouraged him to write 2191 01:47:11.710 --> 01:47:14.130 a book. And I think he's got three or so 2192 01:47:14.210 --> 01:47:17.649 out there now. And a lot of it was having 2193 01:47:17.689 --> 01:47:21.720 to do with that area of England specifically. But again, 2194 01:47:21.729 --> 01:47:26.140 that's a book that wouldn't have existed necessarily without some 2195 01:47:26.159 --> 01:47:29.079 prodding from people like me. Like, these are great stories. 2196 01:47:29.100 --> 01:47:30.380 You got to write them. You got to write them. 2197 01:47:30.399 --> 01:47:33.119 You got to write them. Yeah. And I would say, 2198 01:47:33.140 --> 01:47:35.579 I would credit you. with being one of the people 2199 01:47:36.279 --> 01:47:39.000 that influenced me to, to, to work on strain, to 2200 01:47:39.020 --> 01:47:41.520 work on the small town haunted legends book that it's 2201 01:47:41.560 --> 01:47:42.859 been like a year and a half, two years in 2202 01:47:42.880 --> 01:47:44.880 the making, but you know, I have a lot of 2203 01:47:44.899 --> 01:47:47.020 other stuff going on too, but it will be finished 2204 01:47:47.050 --> 01:47:50.510 and out this year. And you and a couple of other, um, 2205 01:47:51.770 --> 01:47:54.470 paranormal author friends have been really supportive and like, you 2206 01:47:54.510 --> 01:47:57.649 need to go do this. Like you're well-spoken. So you'll 2207 01:47:57.670 --> 01:47:59.869 be well-written. Cause my whole thing is like, I'm not 2208 01:47:59.890 --> 01:48:03.800 a writer. And, um, but then my friend sends straighter Hill, 2209 01:48:04.489 --> 01:48:06.210 She just asked me to write the forward to her 2210 01:48:06.250 --> 01:48:09.840 newest book. And I was just honored and she was 2211 01:48:09.899 --> 01:48:11.960 blown away by it. And I was honored to be 2212 01:48:12.079 --> 01:48:14.180 asked to write the forward. You know, the first thing 2213 01:48:14.199 --> 01:48:15.850 that people are going to see in this book is 2214 01:48:15.949 --> 01:48:18.369 what I wrote. Like, and I didn't even know how 2215 01:48:18.409 --> 01:48:19.069 to approach it. 2216 01:48:19.069 --> 01:48:19.970 Yeah. 2217 01:48:20.069 --> 01:48:22.899 Then i thought well it's mine to do who says 2218 01:48:22.920 --> 01:48:24.779 that a forward has to be this format like who 2219 01:48:24.800 --> 01:48:28.100 cares you know and so i just wrote from the 2220 01:48:28.140 --> 01:48:31.520 heart and and wrote um and that's the best writing 2221 01:48:31.699 --> 01:48:33.880 yeah and and she loved it and it's like i 2222 01:48:33.899 --> 01:48:36.039 said it's in her newest book and and i just 2223 01:48:36.060 --> 01:48:38.039 felt so honored and after that that kind of gave 2224 01:48:38.060 --> 01:48:39.479 me a boost of confidence is what i was getting 2225 01:48:39.500 --> 01:48:42.279 at with that to finish my book. Cause I kind 2226 01:48:42.300 --> 01:48:44.779 of lost confidence. I'm like, am I really a good writer? 2227 01:48:44.920 --> 01:48:46.720 You know, is this really worth it? And that kind 2228 01:48:46.739 --> 01:48:48.539 of gave me the boost to finish the book. And 2229 01:48:48.579 --> 01:48:50.579 now I have an idea for another one to work 2230 01:48:50.640 --> 01:48:52.859 on later on this year. So that's the thing. 2231 01:48:52.920 --> 01:48:55.779 Anytime you write a book, you're already onto the next 2232 01:48:55.859 --> 01:48:59.189 one or that's been my experience. And I'm an Aspie. 2233 01:48:59.229 --> 01:49:02.250 So I tend to work on five or six projects 2234 01:49:02.289 --> 01:49:04.130 at a time. And I've got that many books going on. 2235 01:49:04.489 --> 01:49:06.550 I've got film scripts that I'm working on. I've got 2236 01:49:07.050 --> 01:49:11.189 other YouTube channels planned. You know, just I can't focus 2237 01:49:11.250 --> 01:49:13.449 on one particular thing. So I focus on a bunch 2238 01:49:13.489 --> 01:49:17.470 of different things. And that's the unwieldy part of it 2239 01:49:17.510 --> 01:49:20.649 sometimes is, okay, I need to stay on this and 2240 01:49:20.689 --> 01:49:25.180 get that done. But it means having writer's block. That 2241 01:49:25.220 --> 01:49:27.520 way I've always got a project that I can, a 2242 01:49:27.600 --> 01:49:30.880 writing project that I can go to. But if I 2243 01:49:30.899 --> 01:49:32.680 can do it, anybody can do it. And I've always said, 2244 01:49:32.720 --> 01:49:34.659 if you can talk, you can write. Or even if 2245 01:49:34.699 --> 01:49:38.399 you can't talk, if you're mute, you can still write 2246 01:49:38.439 --> 01:49:43.140 a book. And just start putting words on paper and 2247 01:49:43.220 --> 01:49:45.220 it'll take off. It'll get a mind of its own. 2248 01:49:45.300 --> 01:49:48.380 And although I've started ones and I thought, man, this 2249 01:49:48.500 --> 01:49:50.520 wasn't what I thought it was going to be. And 2250 01:49:50.539 --> 01:49:54.380 I've got several projects like that that are not necessarily 2251 01:49:54.460 --> 01:49:58.600 permanently shelved, but that are shelved nonetheless. And yeah, the 2252 01:49:58.649 --> 01:50:00.329 more you write, the more you want to write. And 2253 01:50:00.489 --> 01:50:03.369 it's like anything, the easier, the more you do it, 2254 01:50:03.390 --> 01:50:06.789 the easier it gets. And there's a Stephen King quote 2255 01:50:06.829 --> 01:50:10.590 that I like to use. He once called himself the 2256 01:50:10.829 --> 01:50:14.890 literary equivalent of a Big Mac and fries, meaning it's 2257 01:50:15.029 --> 01:50:17.409 accessible to everybody. He said the high school kid can 2258 01:50:17.449 --> 01:50:21.050 read it. The plumber with his butt crack hanging out 2259 01:50:21.130 --> 01:50:24.310 can read it. Or the guy that's been to college 2260 01:50:24.329 --> 01:50:27.770 or the doctor can read it. So I like hitting 2261 01:50:27.789 --> 01:50:30.270 that middle ground. And I've seen a lot of authors 2262 01:50:30.489 --> 01:50:33.159 fall that way where they go in thinking, I have 2263 01:50:33.180 --> 01:50:35.500 to show everybody how intelligent I am and what a 2264 01:50:35.539 --> 01:50:37.539 good writer I am. it's going to be hard to 2265 01:50:37.579 --> 01:50:40.239 find an audience that way when people have to look 2266 01:50:40.300 --> 01:50:42.920 up the words in the title, nobody's going to buy 2267 01:50:42.960 --> 01:50:44.220 that book. Right. 2268 01:50:44.579 --> 01:50:47.689 Right. Yeah. And that's, yeah. And I just try to, 2269 01:50:47.720 --> 01:50:49.760 like I said, I, I write the way I talk 2270 01:50:49.800 --> 01:50:51.359 because I don't, I'm not a writer. I don't know 2271 01:50:51.380 --> 01:50:53.640 how else to write it. And so, you know, I 2272 01:50:53.659 --> 01:50:56.729 do my research on the history and collect the information 2273 01:50:56.779 --> 01:50:59.909 and just write it in, you know, my understanding of 2274 01:50:59.930 --> 01:51:02.229 my own words and try to make it where people 2275 01:51:02.409 --> 01:51:03.689 understand it and will enjoy it. Hopefully. 2276 01:51:04.279 --> 01:51:06.199 And there you go. And that's the hardest part for 2277 01:51:06.239 --> 01:51:08.720 me sometimes is just ass in seat and write. 2278 01:51:09.140 --> 01:51:09.500 Yeah. 2279 01:51:09.560 --> 01:51:13.840 It's easy to get distracted. I've thought about getting just 2280 01:51:13.880 --> 01:51:16.640 a regular typewriter, but that's a huge pain in the 2281 01:51:16.779 --> 01:51:20.039 ass because I started out writing that way. If I 2282 01:51:20.079 --> 01:51:22.939 could have just like, I don't know, maybe a Chromebook 2283 01:51:22.979 --> 01:51:25.260 or something that I didn't even have to connect to 2284 01:51:25.340 --> 01:51:26.680 the Internet until I wanted to. 2285 01:51:27.220 --> 01:51:27.399 Yeah. 2286 01:51:27.439 --> 01:51:29.819 Where there was I could keep my focus and just 2287 01:51:29.880 --> 01:51:32.640 sit and write. And I like to listen to music 2288 01:51:32.699 --> 01:51:35.119 when I write. But yeah, I was writing in your 2289 01:51:35.159 --> 01:51:37.100 own voice. That's who else you're going to write in. 2290 01:51:37.119 --> 01:51:40.159 I mean, you can mimic somebody or try different styles 2291 01:51:40.199 --> 01:51:42.800 and things, but once you start doing it, you find 2292 01:51:42.840 --> 01:51:45.229 your own voice and your own cadence and things. And that's, 2293 01:51:45.930 --> 01:51:48.729 but thanks. I consider that an honor to think that 2294 01:51:48.770 --> 01:51:53.329 I've inspired you even in some small way to. 2295 01:51:52.329 --> 01:51:54.569 Write a book. Oh no, you and Cisco have been 2296 01:51:54.609 --> 01:51:57.670 a huge influence on me the past few years since 2297 01:51:57.710 --> 01:52:00.390 I started the paranormal podcast journey and kind of getting 2298 01:52:00.449 --> 01:52:03.729 out in the public with, with my investigating and stuff. Yeah, 2299 01:52:03.750 --> 01:52:07.050 you and Cisco have definitely been hugely influential. 2300 01:52:08.090 --> 01:52:11.250 Well, I appreciate that. And speaking on behalf of her, 2301 01:52:11.310 --> 01:52:14.949 I'm sure she does too. And I'd like to have 2302 01:52:14.970 --> 01:52:19.029 the both of you on sometime. Yeah, yeah. And see 2303 01:52:19.210 --> 01:52:21.850 what can shake loose. And I want to hear both 2304 01:52:21.890 --> 01:52:24.970 of your experiences at Gettysburg and things. Because I know 2305 01:52:25.050 --> 01:52:28.569 she talks about that all the time. She lives in Gettysburg. 2306 01:52:28.930 --> 01:52:31.789 Yeah, it's an amazing place like no other. 2307 01:52:32.649 --> 01:52:35.890 And just to have that many like-minded people in one 2308 01:52:35.949 --> 01:52:40.189 place for that purpose of investigating the paranormal, for being 2309 01:52:40.220 --> 01:52:43.279 a paranormalist, if you will, when you've done your homework 2310 01:52:43.340 --> 01:52:45.260 and you've done your research and you kind of know 2311 01:52:46.319 --> 01:52:50.260 what to expect, not only, but why it's there. That's 2312 01:52:50.279 --> 01:52:53.439 the fascinating part to me about the whole paranormalist thing. 2313 01:52:53.460 --> 01:52:56.689 And it's helping me to look at things in a 2314 01:52:56.729 --> 01:52:58.729 different light, you know, and in a different way that 2315 01:52:59.470 --> 01:53:01.939 I've always done that in the first place. I mean, 2316 01:53:01.960 --> 01:53:04.479 a lot of these places, even in Strange Things in 2317 01:53:04.520 --> 01:53:06.920 the Woods, there were other people's stories. Once I heard 2318 01:53:06.960 --> 01:53:10.199 those stories, I had to go there. There's one about 2319 01:53:10.560 --> 01:53:14.829 Sequoia Museum there in Von Orr, where I read about 2320 01:53:15.130 --> 01:53:17.210 there's an Indian mound there on the edge of the 2321 01:53:17.250 --> 01:53:20.170 parking lot to one side. But back behind there, there's 2322 01:53:20.229 --> 01:53:23.409 this tree that looks like a Disney tree that's out 2323 01:53:23.430 --> 01:53:26.529 in the woods. And that's somebody's power spot. Well, somebody 2324 01:53:26.569 --> 01:53:29.130 told me that story. I got to go. So next 2325 01:53:29.170 --> 01:53:31.909 time I was working a regular job then. Since I 2326 01:53:31.930 --> 01:53:33.989 had a day off, I was headed down to Von Orr. 2327 01:53:34.109 --> 01:53:36.210 I went back there in the woods behind the Indian Mount. 2328 01:53:36.270 --> 01:53:39.020 I stopped and paid my respects there. I'm part Cherokee 2329 01:53:39.069 --> 01:53:41.840 on my dad's side. And then went in the woods there. 2330 01:53:42.319 --> 01:53:44.760 It is, that's one of the most amazing trees I've 2331 01:53:44.779 --> 01:53:47.140 ever seen. You can feel the energy. That is a very, 2332 01:53:47.659 --> 01:53:51.039 very different spot. And there are places like that. I've 2333 01:53:51.060 --> 01:53:55.060 encountered that in the Smokies and other places, but that 2334 01:53:55.140 --> 01:53:58.050 one in particular. Another one here, there's a story about 2335 01:53:58.090 --> 01:54:01.890 a barn where they found cow manure in this barn 2336 01:54:01.930 --> 01:54:05.229 that hadn't been used in decades. They found cow manure 2337 01:54:05.510 --> 01:54:08.109 up in the second loft and it was fresh. They 2338 01:54:08.189 --> 01:54:11.100 poked a stick in it to see that the barn 2339 01:54:11.149 --> 01:54:13.600 and silos gone now, but I had to go there 2340 01:54:13.619 --> 01:54:17.140 because a lot of these were regional. And when I could, 2341 01:54:17.600 --> 01:54:19.439 I'd go and check it out. That one I have 2342 01:54:19.479 --> 01:54:23.060 no answer for, but I told that story recently on 2343 01:54:23.100 --> 01:54:25.960 a live stream and somebody commented that it was Wendigo 2344 01:54:26.020 --> 01:54:29.079 crap up in the barn. I hadn't even thought about that, 2345 01:54:29.159 --> 01:54:32.579 but maybe they do take a dump. Who knows? But 2346 01:54:33.260 --> 01:54:35.600 it was, you know, it was amazing story. And the 2347 01:54:35.640 --> 01:54:39.949 fact that several of these kids witnessed it together, you know, 2348 01:54:39.989 --> 01:54:43.770 somebody telling tales that they all saw it and experienced it. 2349 01:54:44.789 --> 01:54:47.409 I love stuff like that where it's a one-off, but 2350 01:54:47.630 --> 01:54:50.069 there may be several witnesses to it. Like, you know, 2351 01:54:50.090 --> 01:54:51.930 the Dover demon or something like that. 2352 01:54:52.449 --> 01:54:56.840 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, the, some of those stories fascinate me. 2353 01:54:56.960 --> 01:54:59.100 And I've, that's another thing about the paranormal that I 2354 01:54:59.159 --> 01:55:02.039 absolutely love is that get to go places that other 2355 01:55:02.079 --> 01:55:06.020 people normally don't go or get to go. Um, you know, 2356 01:55:06.050 --> 01:55:08.689 we have to rent out places, but, uh, like at 2357 01:55:08.710 --> 01:55:11.229 brushy mountain, uh, we're going, I'm going back again in 2358 01:55:11.310 --> 01:55:13.250 April and it costs a lot of money to rent 2359 01:55:13.270 --> 01:55:16.310 the place out for the night, but there are so 2360 01:55:16.350 --> 01:55:17.989 many other places that we get to go. The general 2361 01:55:18.029 --> 01:55:19.789 public during the day tour doesn't get to go to 2362 01:55:20.750 --> 01:55:23.739 experience and we get to experience the history of in 2363 01:55:23.779 --> 01:55:27.020 a different way and all these amazing places that we 2364 01:55:27.039 --> 01:55:31.020 get into that otherwise without the paranormal, we would not. And, 2365 01:55:31.520 --> 01:55:35.039 and so I think my view on the paranormal ultimately 2366 01:55:35.260 --> 01:55:38.279 is that it's, for me, it's more about the journey 2367 01:55:38.359 --> 01:55:42.270 than it is necessarily the destination. So yes, I love investigating. 2368 01:55:42.289 --> 01:55:43.289 Yeah. 2369 01:55:43.350 --> 01:55:47.390 I love investigating and getting evidence is amazing, but the 2370 01:55:47.529 --> 01:55:49.409 fun in it is doing it with your friends and 2371 01:55:49.430 --> 01:55:52.189 people that you enjoy and the journey of getting the 2372 01:55:52.560 --> 01:55:55.909 to that investigation and the things that happen and just 2373 01:55:55.949 --> 01:55:59.569 spending time with people and the experiences that you get 2374 01:55:59.609 --> 01:56:01.550 to do that nobody else gets to. Yeah. 2375 01:56:01.689 --> 01:56:04.010 And I, and I love that. I'm, I'm more of 2376 01:56:04.090 --> 01:56:06.829 a legend tripper. I like to go someplace where something's 2377 01:56:06.869 --> 01:56:08.909 happened like that and just say, yo, here I am. 2378 01:56:09.029 --> 01:56:10.609 I'm in this place where this happened. 2379 01:56:11.149 --> 01:56:11.329 Yeah. 2380 01:56:11.350 --> 01:56:14.310 And there's a certain thrill for me there that, and 2381 01:56:14.909 --> 01:56:18.119 I don't go anywhere really expecting anything to happen because 2382 01:56:18.159 --> 01:56:21.500 that's usually a guarantee that it won't any of my 2383 01:56:22.060 --> 01:56:25.510 real paranormal encounters was when i was least expecting it 2384 01:56:26.050 --> 01:56:28.470 i don't think i never went into anywhere expecting anything 2385 01:56:28.489 --> 01:56:32.949 to happen and had it happen but again this is 2386 01:56:33.140 --> 01:56:35.939 it's it's an amazing field to study or as a 2387 01:56:35.979 --> 01:56:39.220 hobby and uh like you talked about uh for the 2388 01:56:39.380 --> 01:56:43.020 more adventurous of us it's a you know a travelogue 2389 01:56:43.100 --> 01:56:46.460 a tour book um there was a book that came 2390 01:56:46.520 --> 01:56:49.119 out in 78 by an author named jim brandon called 2391 01:56:49.199 --> 01:56:53.539 weird america and he chronicled chronicled all these weird places 2392 01:56:53.619 --> 01:56:55.739 and had showed where it was on the map and stuff. 2393 01:56:56.479 --> 01:56:58.909 And that was almost my Bible there for a while. 2394 01:56:58.970 --> 01:57:01.109 I went to as many of those places as I could. 2395 01:57:01.670 --> 01:57:04.810 And still to this day, if I'm somewhere near one 2396 01:57:04.829 --> 01:57:06.930 of those places that I read about back in the 2397 01:57:06.970 --> 01:57:09.409 late seventies, I'll go pay it a visit just from 2398 01:57:09.449 --> 01:57:11.710 that one book. I would love to do some sort 2399 01:57:11.750 --> 01:57:14.789 of paranormal guidebook like that because nowadays you can give, um, 2400 01:57:16.100 --> 01:57:18.100 not just a general location like he did, but you 2401 01:57:18.119 --> 01:57:20.500 can give GPS coordinates. You can lead somebody right there, 2402 01:57:20.520 --> 01:57:25.359 of course, trespassing and things like that. But that never 2403 01:57:25.399 --> 01:57:29.170 stopped me much before. But that's, that's another thing that 2404 01:57:29.850 --> 01:57:31.729 the way you're doing it, you're doing it the right way, 2405 01:57:31.750 --> 01:57:33.630 you know, and they don't have to sneak into places 2406 01:57:33.729 --> 01:57:38.489 and risk trespassing or arrest or anything like that. But it's, 2407 01:57:38.899 --> 01:57:41.720 it's being embraced now and they're opening more places up 2408 01:57:41.779 --> 01:57:45.270 and being respectful and and respectful to the environment and 2409 01:57:45.310 --> 01:57:48.520 the place itself, I think that'll open it up for 2410 01:57:48.600 --> 01:57:50.890 future generations to do what you're doing. 2411 01:57:51.689 --> 01:57:53.850 Well, and also a lot of these historical locations we 2412 01:57:53.869 --> 01:57:56.170 go to, you know, if we rent it out for 2413 01:57:56.170 --> 01:57:59.720 $ 500 a night, that probably pays their bills for that month. And, 2414 01:57:59.750 --> 01:58:01.970 you know, you got to think $ 5, $ 10 a historical 2415 01:58:02.029 --> 01:58:03.729 tour is not bringing a lot of people in the doors. 2416 01:58:04.270 --> 01:58:06.470 And so it's a huge influx of money for these 2417 01:58:06.510 --> 01:58:08.810 historical locations. And it's expensive to keep up $ 1, 700, $ 1, 800, 2418 01:58:10.109 --> 01:58:11.189 1800s house. 2419 01:58:11.350 --> 01:58:15.119 Yeah, the heating and cooling and the paint and the 2420 01:58:15.199 --> 01:58:17.199 roof and all that. A lot of stuff that people 2421 01:58:17.239 --> 01:58:20.300 don't think about. Well, Eric, unfortunately, we've run out of 2422 01:58:20.340 --> 01:58:23.039 time tonight. This two hours has just flown by. 2423 01:58:23.340 --> 01:58:23.600 Yeah. 2424 01:58:23.899 --> 01:58:26.880 I've loved having you on the show. You're a fascinating person. 2425 01:58:27.539 --> 01:58:30.729 One more time. Tell everybody the different places they can 2426 01:58:30.810 --> 01:58:31.229 find you. 2427 01:58:31.899 --> 01:58:34.840 The Unseen Paranormal Podcast is available anywhere you find music 2428 01:58:34.880 --> 01:58:38.159 or podcast. So is Strange Chapters. The Unseen Paranormal Podcast 2429 01:58:38.199 --> 01:58:41.220 is on YouTube, but it's audio only. Strange Chapters, like 2430 01:58:41.260 --> 01:58:44.949 I said, on YouTube has a video element to it. 2431 01:58:45.420 --> 01:58:47.680 And the new channel, we don't have anything up yet. 2432 01:58:47.859 --> 01:58:50.960 We're filming this weekend called Strangely Haunted. And you can 2433 01:58:51.000 --> 01:58:54.470 find me and all of those brands all over social media. 2434 01:58:55.050 --> 01:58:57.010 The Unseen Paranormal Podcast is on every social media you 2435 01:58:57.029 --> 01:59:00.229 can think of. I'm building up a TikTok following now, 2436 01:59:00.270 --> 01:59:02.840 but doing short videos on there. But yeah, you can 2437 01:59:02.859 --> 01:59:09.359 follow me on Facebook, Instagram, on TikTok and LinkedIn, everywhere, 2438 01:59:09.840 --> 01:59:11.939 Twitter or X, whatever you want to call it. 2439 01:59:12.300 --> 01:59:15.960 Yeah. I just started on TikTok. That short form, that's 2440 01:59:16.000 --> 01:59:18.479 a whole different animal for me, but I'm getting some 2441 01:59:18.500 --> 01:59:20.859 good results with it. And I like being able to 2442 01:59:20.899 --> 01:59:24.520 tell those short stories. Again, Eric, thank you for joining us. 2443 01:59:24.720 --> 01:59:29.090 And I'll leave links in the show notes. to all 2444 01:59:29.130 --> 01:59:30.729 those things you mentioned there. 2445 01:59:31.710 --> 01:59:33.560 Yeah, thanks for having me, and thanks, everybody, for listening. 2446 01:59:34.060 --> 01:59:36.840 My pleasure. Well, that's going to do it for tonight, everybody. 2447 01:59:37.539 --> 01:59:40.279 I'm Steve Stockton. You've been listening to everything out there 2448 01:59:40.460 --> 01:59:43.659 on the Clyde Lewis Ground Zero Radio Network. I'll see 2449 01:59:43.680 --> 01:59:46.149 you a little further on down the trail. Tell your 2450 01:59:46.189 --> 01:59:47.930 animals I said hi. Good night, everybody.