WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.560 --> 00:00:03.759 Hi. 2 00:00:03.839 --> 00:00:07.080 My name is Josel and Anti and I'm from Pedaluma 3 00:00:07.960 --> 00:00:10.919 and I play at Rooster Run Golf Course in Pedluma, California. 4 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:15.439 This is Golf Smarter episode nine hundred and ninety nine. 5 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:18.480 Rick Martine told me years and years ago and when 6 00:00:18.679 --> 00:00:22.280 PGA down at their Port Saint Lucy complex built the 7 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:24.519 Die Preserve, he got to spend a lot of time 8 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:26.920 with Pete and Alice Dye. And he goes, I never 9 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:29.839 really knew this, but once they get the routing done, 10 00:00:30.039 --> 00:00:32.719 they build every hole from the green backwards. So he goes, 11 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:34.479 if you really want to learn how to play a hole, 12 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:37.240 go stand on the green and look backwards, and you 13 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:40.000 will figure out where you need to hit in from 14 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:42.359 to make the ball hold the green, to make the 15 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:45.119 ball have your best release, to be able to get 16 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:48.079 flags to go for other places. And once you figure 17 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:50.479 out where that is, then you walk backwards to that 18 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:52.600 spot and you go, well, clearly, I should be teeing 19 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:54.320 off on the right side of the tee so that 20 00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:56.399 it opens up the fairway for me. I don't know 21 00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:58.960 if great players do that on tour, but I do 22 00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:01.759 know that most of the caddies I see out there 23 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:05.280 pre walking the course, are walking the exact opposite direction 24 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:08.359 of where we're going, and they look at it that way. 25 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:17.400 How to read golf courses from green to tea to 26 00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:20.719 maximize your game Their old friend Joe Howett. 27 00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:25.920 This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from 28 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:28.959 great golf minds to help you lower your score and 29 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:30.599 raise your golf IQ. 30 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:34.719 Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf 31 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:35.640 Smarter podcast. 32 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:39.079 Joe, Fred, it's great to see you again. And I 33 00:01:39.159 --> 00:01:42.159 know you're on the road to one thousand, and you 34 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:44.000 know you got to have a speed bump along the way, 35 00:01:44.079 --> 00:01:48.079 so thanks for taking me in there towards the ultimate goal. 36 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:50.239 I don't want to slow you down on your charge. 37 00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:52.760 Oh my god, this is not a speed bump at all. 38 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:56.400 This is a celebration. Coming up to episode one thousand 39 00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:59.120 is just mind blowing to me. And I really wanted 40 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:02.879 to feature and focus on the people who I think 41 00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:06.920 made this podcast great. And you definitely get to be 42 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:11.400 in the very highest slot here at nine ninety nine. 43 00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:14.120 You know, if you look that upside down, that might 44 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:17.879 feel how some players feel about their instructor. Six sixty six. 45 00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:21.319 You're making me do things I can't do well. 46 00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:25.280 Actually, episode six hundred and sixty six was with golf 47 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:26.960 course architect Trip Davis. 48 00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:30.319 Well, that is kind of the Antichrist if you think 49 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:33.800 about it. Those golf course architects sneak little troubles and 50 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:34.919 tribulations in there. 51 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:38.599 Do you do you love golf course design or does 52 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:41.879 it frustrate you? 53 00:02:41.919 --> 00:02:45.840 Well, that's a really good question, and I do love 54 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:49.360 golf course design. And I think all of a sudden 55 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:52.879 you're seeing, you know, like the gil Hons's that are 56 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:56.080 out there, and you got the bo Wellings, and you're 57 00:02:56.120 --> 00:02:58.159 seeing a lot of golf courses that are designed that 58 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:02.879 are essentially equal, logically friendly, very easy to maintain, and 59 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:07.479 most important and some of Tiger's new courses they're very playable. 60 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:11.439 I think we've gotten that. You know, Pete Pete Die 61 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:14.479 sort of stuck the golden key in there and open 62 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:16.639 a door and go, what if we make up our 63 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:19.520 three that's surrounded by water? And then everybody else said 64 00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:23.159 I can make it harder than that. And now the 65 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:25.439 operators of the golf course have kind of come back 66 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:29.199 and said, well, we like that, but there's a delay 67 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:31.719 on the twelfth hole that is making everybody play this 68 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:34.120 course in six hours, So how do we make this 69 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:37.319 a little more friendly? And I do love looking at 70 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:40.520 golf course design because you know from a coaching or 71 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:43.240 a playing standpoint, and you know that too, Fred. You 72 00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:45.560 get up there and you go, what the world were 73 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:49.879 they thinking? Or Wow, this is a great golf hole 74 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:52.319 and look at all we're not even designers, and you 75 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:54.080 can kind of go, look at all the different whole 76 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:56.759 locations you can have here. Look at you could take 77 00:03:56.800 --> 00:03:59.680 a risk and play this way, and you could play 78 00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:02.120 it safe, play that way. And then you get to 79 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:05.599 those other holes and you go, oh, dynamite. That's all 80 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:08.000 this whole needs. Is just some dynamite. They should start 81 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:11.319 over on that one. It's it's and I think there's 82 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:14.800 a level of play where Fred, you and I would 83 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:16.600 look at it and go, it's not because I can't 84 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:19.920 play the whole great. It's because the only person who 85 00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:23.560 can play the whole great is either Rory McElroy, Jack 86 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:27.439 Nicholas or Ben Hogan, you know. And so yeah, golf 87 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:31.519 course design is fun and when it allows places to 88 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:34.600 hit the ball for the average players, places for the 89 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:38.000 better players to take chances, and plenty of spots on 90 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:41.759 the green. You know, it's great to have tricky, undulating greens, 91 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:43.800 but when you go over and you look at the 92 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:49.240 greens over in Scotland and Ireland and England, they're also huge. 93 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:52.360 And one of the tougher shots in golf is a 94 00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:56.360 really long put and you know, there's nothing to be 95 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:58.800 said about, oh, this is a huge green. I hit 96 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:00.879 the green. That don't mean you're making in par That 97 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:02.759 means you got another tough shot in front of you. 98 00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:08.079 Absolutely, I can't. You know, I've had multiple sixty foot putts. 99 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:10.959 I kind of you know, I measure out my putts 100 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:13.480 all the time, and I've had sixty foot putts And 101 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:15.600 it's like, okay, you're in three putt territory here. You 102 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:18.319 gotta that's something you really should be working on is 103 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:21.120 lagging at that distance. But when you get to the 104 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:24.600 hundred foot putts, it's like, please, can't I have a 105 00:05:24.600 --> 00:05:25.120 wedge here? 106 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:29.439 Please? I've never swung a putter this hard and this 107 00:05:29.639 --> 00:05:32.000 fast unless I was really angry. 108 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:38.120 Do you have architects that you like, look forward to 109 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:41.680 playing their courses, that you really appreciate their work? 110 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:47.720 You know, honestly, one of them that always stands out 111 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:49.879 in my mind. I do love kind of the way 112 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:53.639 gil Hans is letting everything flow around the course, whether 113 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:55.879 it's in the Carolinas or even out in the Palm 114 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:59.600 Springs area or gosh, one of his earliest designs and 115 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:01.959 I'm for getting, oh my gosh, there's a college there 116 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:04.759 and it's just outside jen and I'm not summer set. 117 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:10.439 I'll think of it. But Nicholas has his deals. Tom Weiskough. 118 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:13.920 Anytime I've ever played a weiss Cough course and I've 119 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:16.360 gotten to maybe the twelfth or thirteenth toll, I'll look 120 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:19.319 at somebody, go who designed this course? I thought. So 121 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:22.160 I'm having a really good time and I'm actually scoring 122 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:26.240 decent and it's kind of tough, So yeah, I thought 123 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:30.879 he was a great designer. Really, just some hidden gems interesting. 124 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:36.800 Interesting. And as an instructor, and especially because you're a 125 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:41.160 PGA Master instructor and you're coaching at a higher level, 126 00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:47.279 how do you incorporate golf course architecture and design into 127 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:50.959 your teaching? Because really what we're doing is we're not 128 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:53.040 playing the golf ball, We're playing the golf course. 129 00:06:55.319 --> 00:06:57.279 I can't give you away all my secrets, you know. 130 00:06:58.040 --> 00:06:59.920 Yes, you can, because nobody's listening. 131 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:05.920 Honestly, there's two things, and I will. I think all 132 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:09.720 great instructors realize we've never come up with an original idea. 133 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:13.319 We've always learned from our peers. Rick Martine told me 134 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:17.040 years and years ago, and when PGA down at their 135 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:21.279 Port Saint Lucy complex built the die the die course 136 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:23.959 down there, the Die Preserve, he got to spend a 137 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:26.120 lot of time with Pete and Alis Die and he goes, 138 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:29.839 I never really knew this, but basically, once they get 139 00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:34.000 the routing done, they build every hole from the green backwards. 140 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:36.160 So he goes, if you really want to learn how 141 00:07:36.199 --> 00:07:38.600 to play a hole, go stand on the green and 142 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:41.680 look backwards, and you will figure out where you need 143 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:44.439 to hit in from to make the ball hold the green, 144 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:47.800 to make the ball have your best release, to be 145 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:51.480 able to get flags to go for other places. And 146 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:53.839 once you figure out where that is, then you walk 147 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:56.040 backwards to that spot and you go, well, clearly, I 148 00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:57.680 should be teeing off on the right side of the 149 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:00.279 tee so that it opens up the fairway for me. 150 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:03.920 I don't know if great players do that on tour, 151 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:07.319 but I do know that most of the caddies I 152 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:10.199 see out there pre walking the course are walking the 153 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:14.120 exact opposite direction of where we're going, and they look 154 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:16.920 at it that way, and that's one big thing, so 155 00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:20.120 kind of thinking of the way you're going to play 156 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:23.399 it from the green backwards. And then Gail Peterson, who 157 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:26.160 is an amazing, amazing I mean he's a Hall of 158 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:29.759 Fame instructor, top one hundred, top fifty, Bennett Sea Island 159 00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:33.720 for however many years. She sat down with me one 160 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:38.440 afternoon in Kingsville and she got a beverage napkin tells 161 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:43.600 you where we were sitting, and she goes, I learned 162 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:46.039 this from Moe Pickens, and she goes, this is what 163 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:48.360 players need to do when they get to a golf tournament. 164 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:52.399 And he said, start with the obvious. A seven iron 165 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:54.320 off of a flat lie is a seven iron off 166 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:59.159 of a flat lie. Whether you're in Boise, Texas, New Hampshire, 167 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:03.440 or Florida, the range, the course, it doesn't make any difference. 168 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:06.320 That's a waste of your time. When you get to 169 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:09.879 the tee, find your line on the tee. That gives 170 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:13.840 you the ability to not run out a room and 171 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:16.120 have the widest area to hit two. I think Scott 172 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:18.679 Fawcett a decade would tell you that in two seconds, 173 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:21.440 you know, find your widest area. And for a good player, 174 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:23.960 make sure you don't run out of room. And I'm 175 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:27.879 telling you as a coach when you say don't run 176 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:31.759 out of room, this is very important. When you're in competition, 177 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:35.799 you are moving faster and you are hitting the ball further. 178 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:38.039 So if you go, oh, that's two seventy there, I'll 179 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:41.080 never reach it. Baloney, you will hit that. I guarantee 180 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:43.039 you you will hit that unless you hit an off shot. 181 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:46.320 So not running out of room. Give yourself twenty yards, 182 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:50.720 not just ten yards, all right, So that's one the 183 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:54.279 speed of the greens. You got to know that. Find 184 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:56.639 out what the sand is like, because the sand is 185 00:09:56.679 --> 00:09:59.600 different on every course. You might not always be using 186 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:02.720 your sand. If the sand is more beach like, or 187 00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:05.519 if it's firmer, or if it's two or stand and 188 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:07.840 it's perfect. You could hit a one iron out of there, 189 00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:10.720 probably if you still had one. So you gotta know 190 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:12.600 what the sand is like. And the last thing is 191 00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:16.120 kind of interesting. Rough is rough, and you're gonna know 192 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:18.279 in two seconds the most club you can hit out 193 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:22.159 of there, Okay, find out the grass, the longer grass 194 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:25.399 that's around the green, and find out how the ball 195 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:29.200 will react when it rolls in there or bounces in there. 196 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:31.720 Is gonna is it gonna hang on top of the grass, 197 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:33.679 Is it gonna go halfway down the grass, or it 198 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:35.000 was gonna go all the way down to the bottom 199 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:38.080 of the grass. Learn those shots and learn what clubs 200 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:41.039 you need. So in terms of course design, find your 201 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:43.720 line off the tee, figure out what the bunkers the 202 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:47.759 sand is, get the speed of the greens, and then 203 00:10:47.799 --> 00:10:50.840 find out what that longer grass around the green and 204 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:52.720 how the ball is going to be sitting, and learn 205 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:54.360 how to have your shot around there. And when you 206 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:57.480 go watch the professionals practice, you can see you can 207 00:10:57.480 --> 00:10:59.759 see them back there on the tee. They're caddy and 208 00:10:59.799 --> 00:11:02.919 then there they got their sheet out and they're drawing lines. 209 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:06.960 That's exactly what's happening off the tee. Maybe every fourth 210 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:08.840 hole or so, they'll hit a ball out of a 211 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:11.120 green side bunker to make sure that the sands are 212 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:15.000 consistent the putting green and the regular green. They spend 213 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:17.480 hours on there, and then they'll take a couple of 214 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:20.279 golf balls. Sometimes they'll they'll hit a good shot up there, 215 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:23.080 and their cady'll just take three golf balls and toss 216 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:24.720 them over there and go, Okay, let's hit those and 217 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:27.879 see see how it works. It's very efficient and you 218 00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:29.879 learn so much because those are the things that are 219 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:33.639 different on every course you play, and every designer will 220 00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:35.039 have their own little spin on it. 221 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:44.840 Okay, my mind is completely blown. That was so helpful 222 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:49.000 for anybody at any level to have that. Now, of course, 223 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:52.320 it's difficult to walk a course backwards when you're playing 224 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:54.480 public golf or you know. I mean, if you have 225 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:57.200 a country club, great, I'm sure you'll find times on 226 00:11:57.279 --> 00:11:59.960 Monday to be able to go walk your course backwards, 227 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:04.039 but usually it's not the easiest thing to do. So, 228 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:08.440 if I guess, the suggestion would be that make sure 229 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:10.559 when you get to the green, of of course you're playing, 230 00:12:10.919 --> 00:12:13.759 turn around and look back so that the next time 231 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:14.279 you're there. 232 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:19.360 What do you think that's absolutely perfect? You know, And 233 00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:22.519 I've been around enough players throughout my career that they 234 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:24.159 do get to the green and then they look back 235 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:27.320 and they go, maybe we should try and carry that bunker. 236 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:29.639 That's a way better line. And if we're down wind. 237 00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:31.799 We're definitely going to take it over that bunker. It 238 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:35.519 opens up way down here, so that's a huge suggestion. 239 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:40.240 And then move along, please, yeah. 240 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:43.120 Right, don't stand there drawing pictures on the green and 241 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.879 take your scorecard off the green, leave the area, open 242 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:49.399 it up, then write down your scores. Don't do it 243 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:49.919 on the green. 244 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.320 Okay, all right, So I have to tell you a 245 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:54.440 fast story. But this is the best part about spending 246 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:56.759 time with you. We always we start out with topics 247 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:00.399 that we get way off tnded, but we have love topics. 248 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:02.399 And we were there's no way we're going to get 249 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:02.960 to all of them. 250 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:05.799 I just know it, Like, don't stand there and draw pictures. 251 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:08.399 Of course, you have yardage books. There was a young 252 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:12.519 lady years and years ago that played the tour, Stacy Pramanasud, 253 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.440 and she went out there I think two times, maybe three, 254 00:13:17.559 --> 00:13:20.159 And if I'm not incorrect in my story, I believe 255 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:24.120 it was her father who was caddying for her. And 256 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:26.919 as I said, you know, they all have the little 257 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.279 yardage books, and I happened to and I will tell 258 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:33.399 you very humbly, I was caddying for a young lady 259 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:37.320 who I was helping a long name, NB Park, so 260 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:40.879 she could have picked a better caddy. Anybody who's middle 261 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:43.480 aged with bad feet and add is not a good choice. 262 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:44.919 I can tell you that right away. 263 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:46.440 Each other. 264 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:51.279 So Stacy's dad has this book and I happen to 265 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:53.080 kind of walk by him and he's over on the 266 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:56.799 side of the green and I'm like, oh, good lord, 267 00:13:57.519 --> 00:14:00.519 he's drawing out the entire greed. I mean, he must 268 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:03.320 have been a courtroom sketch artist at one point in 269 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:05.480 his life, because I'm watching this san and it came 270 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:08.279 together in like thirty seconds. He's got the he she 271 00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:10.320 gives him the club. He walks over to the next tee. 272 00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:13.039 He's got all the ridges and everything does. And I'm like, 273 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:17.120 you guys need to frame these and sign them. They 274 00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:21.200 are unbelievable. And he's like, uh, sometimes we like the 275 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:23.559 way we do it better. But never delayed play at all. 276 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:26.080 And I was like, I was like, those are works 277 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.679 of art, my man. That is just awesome. But today, 278 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:32.600 obviously we have all kinds of topographical maps that we 279 00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:35.320 can pull down from anything. So but it's that was 280 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:37.759 old school to a tea and it was a gorgeous 281 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:38.320 work of art. 282 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:43.320 That's awesome story. Thank you. You know, one of the 283 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:46.120 things that kind of has rattled in my head for years, 284 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:49.759 and I would love to have this disputed because it's 285 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:54.440 probably not right. But I've always felt like the USGA, 286 00:14:54.960 --> 00:15:00.240 the governing bodies, let's just say, are advocate it's for 287 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:03.440 the golf course more than they're an advocate for the golfer. 288 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:05.879 Right. 289 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:08.559 The goal is, the goal is to make the golf 290 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:13.039 courses difficult as it can be for every golfer at 291 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:17.200 every level, right, And so they're more concerned about make 292 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:19.120 you know, as opposed to when you talk about growing 293 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:21.519 the game, it's not about the people, it's about the property. 294 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:28.200 Night out. I always and let me tell you, I 295 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:32.480 think Mike Wan, who is obviously the executive director of 296 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:35.399 the USJA and did so much great stuff with the 297 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:39.559 LPGA and making that tour become an accessible and exciting tour, 298 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:42.080 I think little by little he's doing that with the USDA. 299 00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:44.879 But I think I think I was chatting with a 300 00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:48.000 caddy once and I said, and he and I were laughing, 301 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:50.639 and he said something about it. He said, boy, if 302 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:53.840 the USDA was in charge at NASCAR, it seems like 303 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:57.279 they'd sneak in and under inflate a few of the 304 00:15:57.320 --> 00:16:03.320 tires on the guy's card. Yeah, and they'd probably nicked 305 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:05.000 the brake line. While they're at it. They go, let's 306 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:08.639 see how you boys do on this oval today. But 307 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:12.320 it is they are advocates of the golf course, and 308 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:16.879 much to their defense, it is the one week a 309 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:21.000 year if you take out the you know, you're British 310 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.960 and Scottish and Irish and all those type opens where 311 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:28.399 you have weather that you will never deal with based 312 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:32.440 on tour schedules. So you've got that. But it's going 313 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:34.639 to be one of the toughest tests of golf. And 314 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:39.960 I know it's tough on the players, but it's really 315 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:41.879 a way to go. Okay, you guys are the hundred 316 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:44.600 best we've seen. You hit your wedges closer than anybody 317 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:46.480 because you go with every flag, You hit your driver 318 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:50.519 further and everybody, and you're tremendous putters. Let's see if 319 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:52.759 you can adapt to a facility or a course that 320 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:55.440 doesn't set up for that. And that is a week 321 00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.759 where the champions a lot of times you go, God, 322 00:16:57.799 --> 00:16:59.879 that person came out of nowhere. How did they do 323 00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:02.000 that good? And they go, well, they adapted and the 324 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:05.920 other ones that are you know, it's that big ego going, 325 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:09.240 I will beat this golf course and you're going, no, 326 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:11.880 first you got to befriend the golf course and go 327 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:15.720 could you give me a little little birdie here on six? Maybe? 328 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.880 And well, so it's there are they're advocates for the game, 329 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:23.960 and I think the beauty of what they do is 330 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:29.440 remind us all that this game every day is about adjusting. 331 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:32.519 It's not about overpowering. Some days you're going to play 332 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:34.359 in cold weather. Some days you're going to play and win. 333 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:36.799 Some days you're going to And if you just think 334 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:40.759 you can have one set of skills that's going to 335 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:43.279 withstand all those. It's not if you hit a high 336 00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:45.279 ball and it's a windy day, you're going to struggle. 337 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:47.559 If you hit a low ball and you're playing in 338 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:50.279 a USGA event, it's not going to stop on the green. So, 339 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:55.240 in a very interesting way, it forces even the best 340 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:59.160 players of the world to maybe learn an added skill set. 341 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:01.799 And of course, you know the beauty of a guy 342 00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:06.119 like Jack Nicholas is he could work the ball both directions. 343 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:07.759 He could do whatever he wanted to do with the ball. 344 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:09.240 He could hit it high, he can hit it low. 345 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:12.240 And you find a player that can do that, and 346 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.119 you got somebody, and then you get someone like Bryson 347 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:18.359 who says, if I can hit it far enough, we 348 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:21.079 all know how long the rough is. I got a 349 00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:23.039 sand wedge coming out of there. That's what I was 350 00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:24.599 going to hit from one eighty. I might as well 351 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:26.359 be at one to twenty and see how I can 352 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:30.279 get it to the creen. But again, that's not overpowering 353 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:33.079 the USGA. That's going I found a different way to adapt. 354 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:36.839 So it's a love and hate relationship I think with 355 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:39.279 the players. And I'm going to tell you on the 356 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:45.000 coaches side, Fred, you haven't lived till you're walking around 357 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:47.960 the USGA US Open setup and a player goes, what 358 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.039 in the world do I do from here? I'm going, 359 00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:51.759 I knew I should have stayed at a holiday and 360 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:52.839 express last night. 361 00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:03.519 So we did a an episode recently with Terry Kaylor 362 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:08.000 and we talked about how the amateur golf game, you know, 363 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:11.400 because what you're talking about is for one weekend a 364 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:17.839 year for very few select golfers, but golf courses have 365 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:21.519 to survive all year long, right, and that they the 366 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:25.839 pros literally play a different course than we play, even 367 00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:28.079 if we get to the opportunity to play on that 368 00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:31.680 same course. And the sense that they hit driver wedge 369 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:34.119 right the only thing they hit longer. I think he 370 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:38.400 even gave a statistic about Dustin Johnson hitting a seven 371 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:42.640 iron once in one season on his approach shot. Is 372 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:45.640 that the only reason they're hitting something more than a 373 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:48.640 seven iron is because they're going for a part five 374 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:52.519 and two right. They're usually hitting just wedges. Well, we're 375 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:56.359 hitting hybrids, we're hitting you know, long irons, We're hitting 376 00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:00.400 three woods and five woods for our approach shots. Our 377 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:06.400 game is much harder than their game. Yes, you're laughing 378 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:07.400 at me again. 379 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:10.519 No I'm not. I'm I'm agreeing with you and and 380 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:14.920 all of us as we as we change our hair color, 381 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:20.920 the swing speed we used to have we don't have, 382 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:25.200 and that can facilitate equipment changes so that the ball 383 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:28.599 will come in in what's known as a playable trajectory. 384 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:31.359 You know, you don't want it coming in like a 385 00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:34.000 B one bomber, stating across the top of the green 386 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:36.960 and expecting it to stop. If that's your if that's 387 00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:38.839 your flight plan, you might want to leave the flag 388 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:42.559 in no matter where you are and hope that it 389 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:46.480 runs into it. But we are playing a different game 390 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:52.240 than they are. And from that standpoint, if you, I 391 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:56.279 think just to throw the USGA in there again. The 392 00:20:56.359 --> 00:20:59.480 year that they had the twin US Opens at Pinehurst, 393 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:03.000 everybody was scratching their head, going how are they going 394 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:07.039 to pull this off? And when you realize that on 395 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:10.400 the fourteenth hole, or the twelfth hole, or the seventh hole, 396 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:13.920 that if the ladies had a seven or eight iron in, 397 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:18.000 the men also had a seven or eight iron into 398 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:23.319 that hole. And that becomes very much for the average player. 399 00:21:23.319 --> 00:21:25.039 And I think golf courses are doing a better job 400 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:28.519 of this right now. Play the ts that will allow 401 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:32.799