1 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:03,759 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:03,839 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 2: My name is Josel and Anti and I'm from Pedaluma 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,919 and I play at Rooster Run Golf Course in Pedluma, California. 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,439 This is Golf Smarter episode nine hundred and ninety nine. 5 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: Rick Martine told me years and years ago and when 6 00:00:18,679 --> 00:00:22,280 PGA down at their Port Saint Lucy complex built the 7 00:00:22,399 --> 00:00:24,519 Die Preserve, he got to spend a lot of time 8 00:00:24,559 --> 00:00:26,920 with Pete and Alice Dye. And he goes, I never 9 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,839 really knew this, but once they get the routing done, 10 00:00:30,039 --> 00:00:32,719 they build every hole from the green backwards. So he goes, 11 00:00:32,759 --> 00:00:34,479 if you really want to learn how to play a hole, 12 00:00:34,719 --> 00:00:37,240 go stand on the green and look backwards, and you 13 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,000 will figure out where you need to hit in from 14 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,359 to make the ball hold the green, to make the 15 00:00:42,399 --> 00:00:45,119 ball have your best release, to be able to get 16 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,079 flags to go for other places. And once you figure 17 00:00:48,119 --> 00:00:50,479 out where that is, then you walk backwards to that 18 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,600 spot and you go, well, clearly, I should be teeing 19 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,320 off on the right side of the tee so that 20 00:00:54,359 --> 00:00:56,399 it opens up the fairway for me. I don't know 21 00:00:56,439 --> 00:00:58,960 if great players do that on tour, but I do 22 00:00:59,119 --> 00:01:01,759 know that most of the caddies I see out there 23 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,280 pre walking the course, are walking the exact opposite direction 24 00:01:05,599 --> 00:01:08,359 of where we're going, and they look at it that way. 25 00:01:14,159 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 3: How to read golf courses from green to tea to 26 00:01:17,599 --> 00:01:20,719 maximize your game Their old friend Joe Howett. 27 00:01:20,799 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from 28 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,959 great golf minds to help you lower your score and 29 00:01:29,159 --> 00:01:30,599 raise your golf IQ. 30 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,719 Speaker 3: Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf 31 00:01:34,719 --> 00:01:35,640 Smarter podcast. 32 00:01:35,719 --> 00:01:39,079 Speaker 1: Joe, Fred, it's great to see you again. And I 33 00:01:39,159 --> 00:01:42,159 know you're on the road to one thousand, and you 34 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,000 know you got to have a speed bump along the way, 35 00:01:44,079 --> 00:01:48,079 so thanks for taking me in there towards the ultimate goal. 36 00:01:48,079 --> 00:01:50,239 I don't want to slow you down on your charge. 37 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 3: Oh my god, this is not a speed bump at all. 38 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,400 This is a celebration. Coming up to episode one thousand 39 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,120 is just mind blowing to me. And I really wanted 40 00:01:59,159 --> 00:02:02,879 to feature and focus on the people who I think 41 00:02:02,959 --> 00:02:06,920 made this podcast great. And you definitely get to be 42 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,400 in the very highest slot here at nine ninety nine. 43 00:02:12,039 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: You know, if you look that upside down, that might 44 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,879 feel how some players feel about their instructor. Six sixty six. 45 00:02:18,319 --> 00:02:21,319 You're making me do things I can't do well. 46 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 3: Actually, episode six hundred and sixty six was with golf 47 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:26,960 course architect Trip Davis. 48 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,319 Speaker 1: Well, that is kind of the Antichrist if you think 49 00:02:30,319 --> 00:02:33,800 about it. Those golf course architects sneak little troubles and 50 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:34,919 tribulations in there. 51 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,599 Speaker 3: Do you do you love golf course design or does 52 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,879 it frustrate you? 53 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: Well, that's a really good question, and I do love 54 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,360 golf course design. And I think all of a sudden 55 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,879 you're seeing, you know, like the gil Hons's that are 56 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,080 out there, and you got the bo Wellings, and you're 57 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,159 seeing a lot of golf courses that are designed that 58 00:02:58,199 --> 00:03:02,879 are essentially equal, logically friendly, very easy to maintain, and 59 00:03:03,039 --> 00:03:07,479 most important and some of Tiger's new courses they're very playable. 60 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,439 I think we've gotten that. You know, Pete Pete Die 61 00:03:11,599 --> 00:03:14,479 sort of stuck the golden key in there and open 62 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,639 a door and go, what if we make up our 63 00:03:16,719 --> 00:03:19,520 three that's surrounded by water? And then everybody else said 64 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,159 I can make it harder than that. And now the 65 00:03:23,199 --> 00:03:25,439 operators of the golf course have kind of come back 66 00:03:25,439 --> 00:03:29,199 and said, well, we like that, but there's a delay 67 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,719 on the twelfth hole that is making everybody play this 68 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,120 course in six hours, So how do we make this 69 00:03:34,199 --> 00:03:37,319 a little more friendly? And I do love looking at 70 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,520 golf course design because you know from a coaching or 71 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,240 a playing standpoint, and you know that too, Fred. You 72 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,560 get up there and you go, what the world were 73 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,879 they thinking? Or Wow, this is a great golf hole 74 00:03:50,039 --> 00:03:52,319 and look at all we're not even designers, and you 75 00:03:52,319 --> 00:03:54,080 can kind of go, look at all the different whole 76 00:03:54,159 --> 00:03:56,759 locations you can have here. Look at you could take 77 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,680 a risk and play this way, and you could play 78 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,120 it safe, play that way. And then you get to 79 00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:05,599 those other holes and you go, oh, dynamite. That's all 80 00:04:05,599 --> 00:04:08,000 this whole needs. Is just some dynamite. They should start 81 00:04:08,039 --> 00:04:11,319 over on that one. It's it's and I think there's 82 00:04:11,319 --> 00:04:14,800 a level of play where Fred, you and I would 83 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,600 look at it and go, it's not because I can't 84 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,920 play the whole great. It's because the only person who 85 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:23,560 can play the whole great is either Rory McElroy, Jack 86 00:04:23,639 --> 00:04:27,439 Nicholas or Ben Hogan, you know. And so yeah, golf 87 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,519 course design is fun and when it allows places to 88 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,600 hit the ball for the average players, places for the 89 00:04:34,639 --> 00:04:38,000 better players to take chances, and plenty of spots on 90 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,759 the green. You know, it's great to have tricky, undulating greens, 91 00:04:42,399 --> 00:04:43,800 but when you go over and you look at the 92 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:49,240 greens over in Scotland and Ireland and England, they're also huge. 93 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,360 And one of the tougher shots in golf is a 94 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,360 really long put and you know, there's nothing to be 95 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,800 said about, oh, this is a huge green. I hit 96 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:00,879 the green. That don't mean you're making in par That 97 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:02,759 means you got another tough shot in front of you. 98 00:05:03,439 --> 00:05:08,079 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I can't. You know, I've had multiple sixty foot putts. 99 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,959 I kind of you know, I measure out my putts 100 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,480 all the time, and I've had sixty foot putts And 101 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,600 it's like, okay, you're in three putt territory here. You 102 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,319 gotta that's something you really should be working on is 103 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,120 lagging at that distance. But when you get to the 104 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,600 hundred foot putts, it's like, please, can't I have a 105 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:25,120 wedge here? 106 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,439 Speaker 1: Please? I've never swung a putter this hard and this 107 00:05:29,639 --> 00:05:32,000 fast unless I was really angry. 108 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 3: Do you have architects that you like, look forward to 109 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,680 playing their courses, that you really appreciate their work? 110 00:05:42,639 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: You know, honestly, one of them that always stands out 111 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,879 in my mind. I do love kind of the way 112 00:05:50,519 --> 00:05:53,639 gil Hans is letting everything flow around the course, whether 113 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:55,879 it's in the Carolinas or even out in the Palm 114 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,600 Springs area or gosh, one of his earliest designs and 115 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,959 I'm for getting, oh my gosh, there's a college there 116 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,759 and it's just outside jen and I'm not summer set. 117 00:06:04,759 --> 00:06:10,439 I'll think of it. But Nicholas has his deals. Tom Weiskough. 118 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,920 Anytime I've ever played a weiss Cough course and I've 119 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,360 gotten to maybe the twelfth or thirteenth toll, I'll look 120 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,319 at somebody, go who designed this course? I thought. So 121 00:06:19,439 --> 00:06:22,160 I'm having a really good time and I'm actually scoring 122 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,240 decent and it's kind of tough, So yeah, I thought 123 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,879 he was a great designer. Really, just some hidden gems interesting. 124 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 3: Interesting. And as an instructor, and especially because you're a 125 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,160 PGA Master instructor and you're coaching at a higher level, 126 00:06:41,879 --> 00:06:47,279 how do you incorporate golf course architecture and design into 127 00:06:47,399 --> 00:06:50,959 your teaching? Because really what we're doing is we're not 128 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,040 playing the golf ball, We're playing the golf course. 129 00:06:55,319 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: I can't give you away all my secrets, you know. 130 00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 3: Yes, you can, because nobody's listening. 131 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: Honestly, there's two things, and I will. I think all 132 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,720 great instructors realize we've never come up with an original idea. 133 00:07:09,759 --> 00:07:13,319 We've always learned from our peers. Rick Martine told me 134 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,040 years and years ago, and when PGA down at their 135 00:07:17,079 --> 00:07:21,279 Port Saint Lucy complex built the die the die course 136 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,959 down there, the Die Preserve, he got to spend a 137 00:07:23,959 --> 00:07:26,120 lot of time with Pete and Alis Die and he goes, 138 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,839 I never really knew this, but basically, once they get 139 00:07:29,839 --> 00:07:34,000 the routing done, they build every hole from the green backwards. 140 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,160 So he goes, if you really want to learn how 141 00:07:36,199 --> 00:07:38,600 to play a hole, go stand on the green and 142 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,680 look backwards, and you will figure out where you need 143 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,439 to hit in from to make the ball hold the green, 144 00:07:44,639 --> 00:07:47,800 to make the ball have your best release, to be 145 00:07:47,839 --> 00:07:51,480 able to get flags to go for other places. And 146 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,839 once you figure out where that is, then you walk 147 00:07:53,879 --> 00:07:56,040 backwards to that spot and you go, well, clearly, I 148 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:57,680 should be teeing off on the right side of the 149 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,279 tee so that it opens up the fairway for me. 150 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,920 I don't know if great players do that on tour, 151 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,319 but I do know that most of the caddies I 152 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,199 see out there pre walking the course are walking the 153 00:08:10,279 --> 00:08:14,120 exact opposite direction of where we're going, and they look 154 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,920 at it that way, and that's one big thing, so 155 00:08:17,399 --> 00:08:20,120 kind of thinking of the way you're going to play 156 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,399 it from the green backwards. And then Gail Peterson, who 157 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,160 is an amazing, amazing I mean he's a Hall of 158 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,759 Fame instructor, top one hundred, top fifty, Bennett Sea Island 159 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,720 for however many years. She sat down with me one 160 00:08:33,759 --> 00:08:38,440 afternoon in Kingsville and she got a beverage napkin tells 161 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:43,600 you where we were sitting, and she goes, I learned 162 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,039 this from Moe Pickens, and she goes, this is what 163 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,360 players need to do when they get to a golf tournament. 164 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,399 And he said, start with the obvious. A seven iron 165 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,320 off of a flat lie is a seven iron off 166 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:59,159 of a flat lie. Whether you're in Boise, Texas, New Hampshire, 167 00:08:59,279 --> 00:09:03,440 or Florida, the range, the course, it doesn't make any difference. 168 00:09:03,759 --> 00:09:06,320 That's a waste of your time. When you get to 169 00:09:06,399 --> 00:09:09,879 the tee, find your line on the tee. That gives 170 00:09:09,879 --> 00:09:13,840 you the ability to not run out a room and 171 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,120 have the widest area to hit two. I think Scott 172 00:09:16,159 --> 00:09:18,679 Fawcett a decade would tell you that in two seconds, 173 00:09:18,759 --> 00:09:21,440 you know, find your widest area. And for a good player, 174 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,960 make sure you don't run out of room. And I'm 175 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,879 telling you as a coach when you say don't run 176 00:09:27,919 --> 00:09:31,759 out of room, this is very important. When you're in competition, 177 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,799 you are moving faster and you are hitting the ball further. 178 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,039 So if you go, oh, that's two seventy there, I'll 179 00:09:38,039 --> 00:09:41,080 never reach it. Baloney, you will hit that. I guarantee 180 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,039 you you will hit that unless you hit an off shot. 181 00:09:43,159 --> 00:09:46,320 So not running out of room. Give yourself twenty yards, 182 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,720 not just ten yards, all right, So that's one the 183 00:09:50,799 --> 00:09:54,279 speed of the greens. You got to know that. Find 184 00:09:54,279 --> 00:09:56,639 out what the sand is like, because the sand is 185 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,600 different on every course. You might not always be using 186 00:09:59,639 --> 00:10:02,720 your sand. If the sand is more beach like, or 187 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,519 if it's firmer, or if it's two or stand and 188 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,840 it's perfect. You could hit a one iron out of there, 189 00:10:07,879 --> 00:10:10,720 probably if you still had one. So you gotta know 190 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:12,600 what the sand is like. And the last thing is 191 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,120 kind of interesting. Rough is rough, and you're gonna know 192 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,279 in two seconds the most club you can hit out 193 00:10:18,279 --> 00:10:22,159 of there, Okay, find out the grass, the longer grass 194 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,399 that's around the green, and find out how the ball 195 00:10:25,519 --> 00:10:29,200 will react when it rolls in there or bounces in there. 196 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,720 Is gonna is it gonna hang on top of the grass, 197 00:10:32,039 --> 00:10:33,679 Is it gonna go halfway down the grass, or it 198 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,000 was gonna go all the way down to the bottom 199 00:10:35,039 --> 00:10:38,080 of the grass. Learn those shots and learn what clubs 200 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,039 you need. So in terms of course design, find your 201 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,720 line off the tee, figure out what the bunkers the 202 00:10:43,759 --> 00:10:47,759 sand is, get the speed of the greens, and then 203 00:10:47,799 --> 00:10:50,840 find out what that longer grass around the green and 204 00:10:50,879 --> 00:10:52,720 how the ball is going to be sitting, and learn 205 00:10:52,759 --> 00:10:54,360 how to have your shot around there. And when you 206 00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:57,480 go watch the professionals practice, you can see you can 207 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,759 see them back there on the tee. They're caddy and 208 00:10:59,799 --> 00:11:02,919 then there they got their sheet out and they're drawing lines. 209 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,960 That's exactly what's happening off the tee. Maybe every fourth 210 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:08,840 hole or so, they'll hit a ball out of a 211 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,120 green side bunker to make sure that the sands are 212 00:11:11,159 --> 00:11:15,000 consistent the putting green and the regular green. They spend 213 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,480 hours on there, and then they'll take a couple of 214 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,279 golf balls. Sometimes they'll they'll hit a good shot up there, 215 00:11:20,759 --> 00:11:23,080 and their cady'll just take three golf balls and toss 216 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,720 them over there and go, Okay, let's hit those and 217 00:11:24,759 --> 00:11:27,879 see see how it works. It's very efficient and you 218 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:29,879 learn so much because those are the things that are 219 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,639 different on every course you play, and every designer will 220 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:35,039 have their own little spin on it. 221 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 3: Okay, my mind is completely blown. That was so helpful 222 00:11:44,919 --> 00:11:49,000 for anybody at any level to have that. Now, of course, 223 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,320 it's difficult to walk a course backwards when you're playing 224 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,480 public golf or you know. I mean, if you have 225 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,200 a country club, great, I'm sure you'll find times on 226 00:11:57,279 --> 00:11:59,960 Monday to be able to go walk your course backwards, 227 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,039 but usually it's not the easiest thing to do. So, 228 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,440 if I guess, the suggestion would be that make sure 229 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,559 when you get to the green, of of course you're playing, 230 00:12:10,919 --> 00:12:13,759 turn around and look back so that the next time 231 00:12:13,759 --> 00:12:14,279 you're there. 232 00:12:15,799 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: What do you think that's absolutely perfect? You know, And 233 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,519 I've been around enough players throughout my career that they 234 00:12:22,519 --> 00:12:24,159 do get to the green and then they look back 235 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,320 and they go, maybe we should try and carry that bunker. 236 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,639 That's a way better line. And if we're down wind. 237 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,799 We're definitely going to take it over that bunker. It 238 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,519 opens up way down here, so that's a huge suggestion. 239 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,240 And then move along, please, yeah. 240 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 3: Right, don't stand there drawing pictures on the green and 241 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,879 take your scorecard off the green, leave the area, open 242 00:12:46,919 --> 00:12:49,399 it up, then write down your scores. Don't do it 243 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:49,919 on the green. 244 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So I have to tell you a 245 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,440 fast story. But this is the best part about spending 246 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,759 time with you. We always we start out with topics 247 00:12:56,799 --> 00:13:00,399 that we get way off tnded, but we have love topics. 248 00:13:00,399 --> 00:13:02,399 Speaker 3: And we were there's no way we're going to get 249 00:13:02,399 --> 00:13:02,960 to all of them. 250 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,799 Speaker 1: I just know it, Like, don't stand there and draw pictures. 251 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,399 Of course, you have yardage books. There was a young 252 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,519 lady years and years ago that played the tour, Stacy Pramanasud, 253 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,440 and she went out there I think two times, maybe three, 254 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,159 And if I'm not incorrect in my story, I believe 255 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,120 it was her father who was caddying for her. And 256 00:13:24,279 --> 00:13:26,919 as I said, you know, they all have the little 257 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,279 yardage books, and I happened to and I will tell 258 00:13:30,279 --> 00:13:33,399 you very humbly, I was caddying for a young lady 259 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,320 who I was helping a long name, NB Park, so 260 00:13:38,279 --> 00:13:40,879 she could have picked a better caddy. Anybody who's middle 261 00:13:40,919 --> 00:13:43,480 aged with bad feet and add is not a good choice. 262 00:13:43,519 --> 00:13:44,919 I can tell you that right away. 263 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 3: Each other. 264 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:51,279 Speaker 1: So Stacy's dad has this book and I happen to 265 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,080 kind of walk by him and he's over on the 266 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,799 side of the green and I'm like, oh, good lord, 267 00:13:57,519 --> 00:14:00,519 he's drawing out the entire greed. I mean, he must 268 00:14:00,519 --> 00:14:03,320 have been a courtroom sketch artist at one point in 269 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,480 his life, because I'm watching this san and it came 270 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,279 together in like thirty seconds. He's got the he she 271 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,320 gives him the club. He walks over to the next tee. 272 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,039 He's got all the ridges and everything does. And I'm like, 273 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,120 you guys need to frame these and sign them. They 274 00:14:17,159 --> 00:14:21,200 are unbelievable. And he's like, uh, sometimes we like the 275 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,559 way we do it better. But never delayed play at all. 276 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,080 And I was like, I was like, those are works 277 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,679 of art, my man. That is just awesome. But today, 278 00:14:28,759 --> 00:14:32,600 obviously we have all kinds of topographical maps that we 279 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,320 can pull down from anything. So but it's that was 280 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,759 old school to a tea and it was a gorgeous 281 00:14:37,759 --> 00:14:38,320 work of art. 282 00:14:39,919 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 3: That's awesome story. Thank you. You know, one of the 283 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,120 things that kind of has rattled in my head for years, 284 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,759 and I would love to have this disputed because it's 285 00:14:49,759 --> 00:14:54,440 probably not right. But I've always felt like the USGA, 286 00:14:54,960 --> 00:15:00,240 the governing bodies, let's just say, are advocate it's for 287 00:15:00,279 --> 00:15:03,440 the golf course more than they're an advocate for the golfer. 288 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:05,879 Speaker 1: Right. 289 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,559 Speaker 3: The goal is, the goal is to make the golf 290 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:13,039 courses difficult as it can be for every golfer at 291 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:17,200 every level, right, And so they're more concerned about make 292 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,120 you know, as opposed to when you talk about growing 293 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,519 the game, it's not about the people, it's about the property. 294 00:15:22,639 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: Night out. I always and let me tell you, I 295 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,480 think Mike Wan, who is obviously the executive director of 296 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,399 the USJA and did so much great stuff with the 297 00:15:35,559 --> 00:15:39,559 LPGA and making that tour become an accessible and exciting tour, 298 00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:42,080 I think little by little he's doing that with the USDA. 299 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,879 But I think I think I was chatting with a 300 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,000 caddy once and I said, and he and I were laughing, 301 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,639 and he said something about it. He said, boy, if 302 00:15:50,679 --> 00:15:53,840 the USDA was in charge at NASCAR, it seems like 303 00:15:53,879 --> 00:15:57,279 they'd sneak in and under inflate a few of the 304 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:03,320 tires on the guy's card. Yeah, and they'd probably nicked 305 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,000 the brake line. While they're at it. They go, let's 306 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,639 see how you boys do on this oval today. But 307 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,320 it is they are advocates of the golf course, and 308 00:16:13,399 --> 00:16:16,879 much to their defense, it is the one week a 309 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,000 year if you take out the you know, you're British 310 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,960 and Scottish and Irish and all those type opens where 311 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,399 you have weather that you will never deal with based 312 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:32,440 on tour schedules. So you've got that. But it's going 313 00:16:32,519 --> 00:16:34,639 to be one of the toughest tests of golf. And 314 00:16:35,279 --> 00:16:39,960 I know it's tough on the players, but it's really 315 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:41,879 a way to go. Okay, you guys are the hundred 316 00:16:41,919 --> 00:16:44,600 best we've seen. You hit your wedges closer than anybody 317 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,480 because you go with every flag, You hit your driver 318 00:16:46,559 --> 00:16:50,519 further and everybody, and you're tremendous putters. Let's see if 319 00:16:50,559 --> 00:16:52,759 you can adapt to a facility or a course that 320 00:16:52,799 --> 00:16:55,440 doesn't set up for that. And that is a week 321 00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:57,759 where the champions a lot of times you go, God, 322 00:16:57,799 --> 00:16:59,879 that person came out of nowhere. How did they do 323 00:16:59,919 --> 00:17:02,000 that good? And they go, well, they adapted and the 324 00:17:02,039 --> 00:17:05,920 other ones that are you know, it's that big ego going, 325 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,240 I will beat this golf course and you're going, no, 326 00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:11,880 first you got to befriend the golf course and go 327 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,720 could you give me a little little birdie here on six? Maybe? 328 00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:19,880 And well, so it's there are they're advocates for the game, 329 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:23,960 and I think the beauty of what they do is 330 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:29,440 remind us all that this game every day is about adjusting. 331 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,519 It's not about overpowering. Some days you're going to play 332 00:17:32,519 --> 00:17:34,359 in cold weather. Some days you're going to play and win. 333 00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:36,799 Some days you're going to And if you just think 334 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,759 you can have one set of skills that's going to 335 00:17:40,839 --> 00:17:43,279 withstand all those. It's not if you hit a high 336 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,279 ball and it's a windy day, you're going to struggle. 337 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,559 If you hit a low ball and you're playing in 338 00:17:47,559 --> 00:17:50,279 a USGA event, it's not going to stop on the green. So, 339 00:17:51,279 --> 00:17:55,240 in a very interesting way, it forces even the best 340 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,160 players of the world to maybe learn an added skill set. 341 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,799 And of course, you know the beauty of a guy 342 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:06,119 like Jack Nicholas is he could work the ball both directions. 343 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:07,759 He could do whatever he wanted to do with the ball. 344 00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:09,240 He could hit it high, he can hit it low. 345 00:18:09,279 --> 00:18:12,240 And you find a player that can do that, and 346 00:18:12,279 --> 00:18:15,119 you got somebody, and then you get someone like Bryson 347 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,359 who says, if I can hit it far enough, we 348 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,079 all know how long the rough is. I got a 349 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,039 sand wedge coming out of there. That's what I was 350 00:18:23,079 --> 00:18:24,599 going to hit from one eighty. I might as well 351 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,359 be at one to twenty and see how I can 352 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,279 get it to the creen. But again, that's not overpowering 353 00:18:30,279 --> 00:18:33,079 the USGA. That's going I found a different way to adapt. 354 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,839 So it's a love and hate relationship I think with 355 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,279 the players. And I'm going to tell you on the 356 00:18:39,279 --> 00:18:45,000 coaches side, Fred, you haven't lived till you're walking around 357 00:18:45,039 --> 00:18:47,960 the USGA US Open setup and a player goes, what 358 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,039 in the world do I do from here? I'm going, 359 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:51,759 I knew I should have stayed at a holiday and 360 00:18:51,839 --> 00:18:52,839 express last night. 361 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:03,519 Speaker 3: So we did a an episode recently with Terry Kaylor 362 00:19:03,559 --> 00:19:08,000 and we talked about how the amateur golf game, you know, 363 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,400 because what you're talking about is for one weekend a 364 00:19:11,519 --> 00:19:17,839 year for very few select golfers, but golf courses have 365 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,519 to survive all year long, right, and that they the 366 00:19:21,599 --> 00:19:25,839 pros literally play a different course than we play, even 367 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,079 if we get to the opportunity to play on that 368 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,680 same course. And the sense that they hit driver wedge 369 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,119 right the only thing they hit longer. I think he 370 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,400 even gave a statistic about Dustin Johnson hitting a seven 371 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,640 iron once in one season on his approach shot. Is 372 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,640 that the only reason they're hitting something more than a 373 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,640 seven iron is because they're going for a part five 374 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,519 and two right. They're usually hitting just wedges. Well, we're 375 00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:56,359 hitting hybrids, we're hitting you know, long irons, We're hitting 376 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,400 three woods and five woods for our approach shots. Our 377 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:06,400 game is much harder than their game. Yes, you're laughing 378 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:07,400 at me again. 379 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,519 Speaker 1: No I'm not. I'm I'm agreeing with you and and 380 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,920 all of us as we as we change our hair color, 381 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,920 the swing speed we used to have we don't have, 382 00:20:21,759 --> 00:20:25,200 and that can facilitate equipment changes so that the ball 383 00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:28,599 will come in in what's known as a playable trajectory. 384 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,359 You know, you don't want it coming in like a 385 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,000 B one bomber, stating across the top of the green 386 00:20:34,079 --> 00:20:36,960 and expecting it to stop. If that's your if that's 387 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,839 your flight plan, you might want to leave the flag 388 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,559 in no matter where you are and hope that it 389 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,480 runs into it. But we are playing a different game 390 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:52,240 than they are. And from that standpoint, if you, I 391 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,279 think just to throw the USGA in there again. The 392 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,480 year that they had the twin US Opens at Pinehurst, 393 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,000 everybody was scratching their head, going how are they going 394 00:21:03,079 --> 00:21:07,039 to pull this off? And when you realize that on 395 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,400 the fourteenth hole, or the twelfth hole, or the seventh hole, 396 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,920 that if the ladies had a seven or eight iron in, 397 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,000 the men also had a seven or eight iron into 398 00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:23,319 that hole. And that becomes very much for the average player. 399 00:21:23,319 --> 00:21:25,039 And I think golf courses are doing a better job 400 00:21:25,039 --> 00:21:28,519 of this right now. Play the ts that will allow 401 00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:32,799 you to hit in and approach shot that is in 402 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,160 your scoring iron range, maybe six, seven or eight iron, 403 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,680 and that's the minute you get that. It's kind of 404 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,240 like looking at every hole and subtracting one fifty five 405 00:21:41,279 --> 00:21:42,759 and going how far do I have to hit it 406 00:21:42,799 --> 00:21:44,839 off the tee? Oh my gosh. If we play these, 407 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:46,400 I got to hit the shortest drive. I have to 408 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:47,920 hit us two to seventy. The rest of them are 409 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,519 three hundred. Yeah, I get it, forget it. And that's 410 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,720 let me tell you something. There's there's a pride thing 411 00:21:54,759 --> 00:21:56,359 that you want to go back and play the tips. 412 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,160 If you want to play the tips, play one of 413 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,640 the par fives from the tips, play one of the 414 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,599 par threes from the tips, and play one of the 415 00:22:03,799 --> 00:22:06,200 shorter par fours from the tips, because if you play 416 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,160 the long par four from the tip, you're just playing 417 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,079 another part five, right. 418 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,079 Speaker 3: Literally, that's a great suggestion, and any suggestion. 419 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: If you're going to do that, Gosh, this game can 420 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:16,839 be fun. 421 00:22:19,319 --> 00:22:23,799 Speaker 3: The game is so much more fun when you're scoring well. 422 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,839 I can't believe how you frustrated. I've been with golf 423 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,119 over the years. But when I was able to and 424 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,359 I'm not doing it now, but when I was able 425 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,240 to hit you know, a couple of rounds in the 426 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,720 upper seventies, it was like, Wow, that was fun. That's 427 00:22:37,839 --> 00:22:39,559 you know, that's when we get back into talking about 428 00:22:39,559 --> 00:22:42,519 the zone and the flow state. That was fun because 429 00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:45,839 it was just easy today. Yeah, I wasn't thinking about 430 00:22:45,839 --> 00:22:46,559 all those things. 431 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,599 Speaker 1: And when you're hitting those scoring irons in it doesn't 432 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,440 take long to notice, Wow, this is where I need 433 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,000 some work. Either you're hitting the fairway and missing the 434 00:22:57,039 --> 00:22:59,799 green or you're missing the fairway and missing the green. 435 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,359 You either got to work in your t shot or 436 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,880 your rights. But if you're having to reach for maximum 437 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,839 distance on every shot, you don't know where to work. 438 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,880 All you know is you've got to hit the ball further, 439 00:23:09,519 --> 00:23:12,759 and that generally is not a great recipe for getting better. 440 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 3: So interesting that, you know, before we started, you had 441 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,640 a couple of topics that you suggested that we talk about, 442 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,319 and you just led into one of them as we 443 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:34,400 talk about equipment changes and playing wedges into the green whatnot, 444 00:23:34,759 --> 00:23:37,119 and you suggested that maybe we need to talk about 445 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,799 these specialty wedges and what they're not telling you, who's 446 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,039 not telling us? What are they not saying? 447 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,039 Speaker 1: So this sounds like a big teaser, and it's like, uh. 448 00:23:49,039 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 3: Oh, totally is fred what you said to me. 449 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,839 Speaker 1: You're going to put this out there and then my 450 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,720 friends are going to go, Hall, it said something stupid 451 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,920 again and they're going to go, what's what's so unusual 452 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:07,160 about that? Joey? You know what? Honestly, and I'm gonna 453 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,039 tell you, and I even I was even chatting with 454 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,079 my better half on this and she goes, yeah, it 455 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,200 usually takes you guys a couple of years to figure 456 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,319 out what's going on. She's like, but when you're in 457 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,720 the background. So I've watched this phenomenon that's been going on, 458 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,880 and it's very prevalent with college golfers. These are young 459 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,240 kids that have great swing speeds. And I'm so speaking 460 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,119 both on the men's team and the ladies team college golf, 461 00:24:34,559 --> 00:24:38,039 and over the past two years for certain, maybe a 462 00:24:38,079 --> 00:24:41,039 little longer. All of a sudden, I keep going, I 463 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,200 keep hearing the same comment, and like, there's something going 464 00:24:44,279 --> 00:24:46,680 on there, and I know it with my game, but 465 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,519 I'm going, I don't play as much as I used to. 466 00:24:49,559 --> 00:24:52,480 I probably don't have a swing speed. So and one 467 00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:55,119 of them that comes out a ton is like you 468 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,480 hear a twenty year old kid go, I don't get it, 469 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,160 you know. And all the college kids they always have 470 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,599 the latest equipment and everything else, right, they're always up 471 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,920 to they take care of the teams, and they go, 472 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,279 I just don't get it. I used to hit this 473 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:13,680 fifty six degree wedge one twenty. I can't hit it 474 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:19,680 over one oh five anymore. Still a fifty six degree wedge, 475 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,759 still whatever, And I'm hearing the same comment from the 476 00:25:23,839 --> 00:25:27,480 young ladies on the university teams, and they're like, you know, 477 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,759 fifty six used to be my go to at one 478 00:25:29,839 --> 00:25:32,880 hundred to one hundred and three yards. I can't get 479 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,200 it over ninety five anymore. 480 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I have a sound effect for that. 481 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, lah lah, Charlie Roan's teacher now. And I know 482 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,839 you've had some of the greatest, some of the greatest 483 00:25:48,839 --> 00:25:51,640 short game guys in the business, like James Siekman and 484 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,880 Stan Utley, and you know they would kind of go, well, 485 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,000 first of all, if you're trying to hit your wedge 486 00:25:57,279 --> 00:26:00,720 full out, you've got a problem, I mean, because you 487 00:26:00,759 --> 00:26:03,920 deserve every evil that's about to come your way. But 488 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,559 I went to I went the other route, and I said, 489 00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:09,480 I'm going to go to an authority on this. So 490 00:26:09,599 --> 00:26:14,119 there is a tremendously gifted instructor up at Caves Valley 491 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,119 named Bernie Najar, and Bernie happens to teach a guy 492 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,079 named Kyle Berkshire. If you don't know who Kyle is, 493 00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:24,839 he is the world long drive champion, the kid with 494 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,240 the long hair and the mullet, the five time champion. 495 00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:34,640 And I tell right, yes, exactly, And I said, Bernie 496 00:26:34,799 --> 00:26:38,759 I have a question that I'm sure you have run 497 00:26:38,759 --> 00:26:41,759 into because a lot of the guys you teach. Now 498 00:26:41,759 --> 00:26:44,400 he teaches tour players. And he said, a lot of 499 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,240 the guys you teach. And I said, here's my question. 500 00:26:47,319 --> 00:26:49,839 I just posed it. I said, I keep hearing this comment. 501 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,720 Is it me? Or are these boutique and specialty wedges? 502 00:26:54,799 --> 00:26:57,480 You know, you got Titleist Volk, the Cleveland with Callaway, 503 00:26:57,519 --> 00:27:01,880 you got the Glides with the ping, these great wedges 504 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,440 that we have now are they going shorter than they 505 00:27:05,559 --> 00:27:10,000 used to? Bernie sends back, and I know, figuratively, I'm 506 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,880 gonna grab my phone and find the message. But it 507 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,200 was the greatest response I've ever seen. Interesting question. I'll 508 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,759 get back to you in a second. It comes back 509 00:27:17,839 --> 00:27:20,799 the first line. First of all, wedges are for losers. 510 00:27:21,319 --> 00:27:28,960 They should drive the grain. And he said, no, what's 511 00:27:29,079 --> 00:27:32,400 happened on these wedges? The sixty degrees, the fifty eights, 512 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,279 the fifty six is fifty four, it's fifty Two's is 513 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,200 they are coming up with so many different soul configurations 514 00:27:40,319 --> 00:27:44,799 and heel relief and toe relief and different shavings that 515 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,000 the center of gravity on those clubs keeps getting a 516 00:27:48,039 --> 00:27:51,759 little higher and higher, and that center of gravity starts 517 00:27:51,799 --> 00:27:54,400 pushing the club more under the ball. So when a 518 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,559 player tries to swing that club faster and hit it further, 519 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,039 it actually gets more spend, goes higher and shorter. But 520 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,359 around the green you can operate that club at a 521 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,759 much slower swing speed. And now you see these guys 522 00:28:08,839 --> 00:28:11,319 and ladies out there hit these chip shots and you're like, 523 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,240 how in the world do they get that ball to 524 00:28:13,279 --> 00:28:16,480 stop downhill lot of long grass on a downhill green. 525 00:28:16,559 --> 00:28:21,279 That's impossible. So the design of these wedges has become 526 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,240 one where at a slower speed around the green or 527 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,359 in your twenty thirty forty fifty yard shot where you're 528 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:32,400 not swinging full, they're phenomenal, but the overall distance on 529 00:28:32,519 --> 00:28:34,599 those when you try and crank it up to your 530 00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:38,200 full swing and normal swing, it's not going where it 531 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,480 should be. Now, Bernie ended that and saying, if you 532 00:28:42,519 --> 00:28:45,160 look at some of the senior tour players, they are 533 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,359 still playing wedges from three to four years ago. They're 534 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,599 just getting them regrooved every year because of the waiting, 535 00:28:52,359 --> 00:28:56,559 they can use that extra distance. And Bernie's last sentence said, 536 00:28:56,759 --> 00:28:59,319 if you wanted a suggestion, for a player like that, 537 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,759 I would get the gap wedge that goes with the set, 538 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,680 you know, and sometimes it's an a wedge, and sometimes 539 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,599 it says G on it, And as fate would have it, 540 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:14,000 the very next day after that, I was in College Station, Texas, 541 00:29:14,039 --> 00:29:17,079 standing on the tee with Stacy Lewis. She had just 542 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,240 come from a fitting at her club supplier as Mizuno, 543 00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:24,119 and she said, I got a distance I can't hit, 544 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,000 and they're having trouble dialing these wedges in because they're 545 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,400 not going as far anymore. She said, So I put 546 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,559 this in the bag. What do you think? She pulled 547 00:29:32,599 --> 00:29:37,519 out the gap wedge exactly as Bert and I took 548 00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:39,519 a picture of it, and I said, Bernie, did you 549 00:29:39,559 --> 00:29:43,960 two guys talk before I got here? But I'm telling 550 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,119 you that from the player that is maybe kind of 551 00:29:47,119 --> 00:29:49,680 the more athletic player doesn't have to be the college player. 552 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,880 But if you like to go after that wedge, give 553 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,559 that gap wedge that matches your set of clubs, give 554 00:29:56,599 --> 00:29:59,440 that another look. When you first got it, you probably 555 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,440 got your wedges and everything, and you put that guy 556 00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:06,119 over in the garage, and little by little it's time 557 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,440 to move the backup quarterback off of the bench and 558 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,279 put him near the sidelines and let him take a 559 00:30:10,279 --> 00:30:11,160 look at what's going on. 560 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,119 Speaker 3: It's interesting to say that because I've been playing PXG 561 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,359 clubs for about a year and it came with a 562 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,920 gap and a pitching wedge, and I have found that 563 00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:26,799 I can really get a lot. I don't have to 564 00:30:26,839 --> 00:30:31,279 have a distance to pull out that gap wedge. Sometimes 565 00:30:31,319 --> 00:30:33,680 I choke up and I can knock ten yards off 566 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:38,559 of it, right. Sometimes I use it as not necessarily 567 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,559 a putting stroke. But if I just need to keep 568 00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:43,519 it along the ground, you know, keep it low and 569 00:30:43,599 --> 00:30:46,079 let it roll up, I can do that from forty 570 00:30:46,119 --> 00:30:47,200 five fifty yards. 571 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 572 00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:53,119 Speaker 3: But what about like these boutique wedges, these companies, you know, 573 00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:56,200 like we're talking about Terry Kaylor and Edison Golf, and 574 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,440 you know he comes up with lots of soul designs 575 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:05,880 and whatnot makes his clubs unique. Can those boutique companies, 576 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,799 can they compete with the vokies in the Cleveland's? 577 00:31:08,839 --> 00:31:09,279 Speaker 1: Can they? 578 00:31:09,599 --> 00:31:13,559 Speaker 3: And are they of value to the average golfer? Oh, 579 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,359 I was talking about the amateur golfer. 580 00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely think so. And for the amateur golfer, 581 00:31:19,799 --> 00:31:22,200 there's two things that you know. There is physics of 582 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,400 the golf club and you can't argue with those literally, 583 00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:27,519 and there's physics of the driver and you can't argue 584 00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:30,480 with those. So that boutique wedge that you're going to 585 00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:34,400 look at, here's here's your two criteria. Number One, use 586 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,359 them at controlled swing speeds, not full out. Doesn't have 587 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,160 to be slow, but controlled swing speeds. And two, but 588 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,240 I'm being honest about this, if it's a cool looking 589 00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:47,400 club and you go, God, I love the way this 590 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,039 wedge looks, then dog on it. Stick it in your bag, 591 00:31:50,079 --> 00:31:52,759 because you're now you're dying to get to that spot 592 00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:55,039 to use the wedge. And that's the same spot used 593 00:31:55,079 --> 00:31:58,440 to go, oh god, I'm here again on fifteen. I 594 00:31:58,519 --> 00:32:01,279 hate this serially. At least if you have a club 595 00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:02,960 in front of you and you go, I really like 596 00:32:03,039 --> 00:32:07,839 the way this thing looks. Controlled swing speed looks good. Look, 597 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,759 the grooves are going to be fine, the bounce is 598 00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:12,559 going to be fine on it. That's stuff you can 599 00:32:12,599 --> 00:32:18,480 find through any manufacturer, any fitting. But there's an area 600 00:32:18,599 --> 00:32:21,640 for those boutique wedges, just like there is potters. We 601 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,480 talked about lab golf a little bit earlier, and you know, 602 00:32:25,599 --> 00:32:29,759 it's it's what meets what meets the eye as a 603 00:32:29,759 --> 00:32:33,440 big confidence builder. You know, you and I have had 604 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,240 to go to things in our careers and we've gone 605 00:32:35,279 --> 00:32:37,079 and we've had to put on a coat and tie 606 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,640 and you get halfway out the door and you go, 607 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:40,880 I look like an idiot in this tie. Take the 608 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,960 tie off and put a better tie on. Then you 609 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,720 feel better and you have a little more confidence. 610 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 3: But I'm only laughing because yeah, I really relate to that. 611 00:32:55,079 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: You never I returned the tie I had to wear 612 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:09,839 once I got to regifted it. Let's let's be honest, all. 613 00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 3: Right, Let's change topics for a little bit, because I'm 614 00:33:12,519 --> 00:33:15,720 really interested to get your impression of something that I've 615 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,160 talked a lot about this year. And it's not it's 616 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,039 weird because I don't I brag about the fact that 617 00:33:21,079 --> 00:33:23,559 I don't talk about the PGA or the LPGA tour. 618 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,759 I have to say LPGA because you're here. But uh, 619 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,200 I don't like talking about it because it's old news 620 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,039 by the time a podcast comes out. But I was 621 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,400 really enamored with TGL this year. I thought it was 622 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,279 a lot of fun. I thought that it could be 623 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:46,079 the future of how we do golf. I loved listening 624 00:33:46,079 --> 00:33:49,559 to these guys talk with each other, strategize with each other, 625 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,599 you know, give each other a hard time. 626 00:33:52,839 --> 00:33:53,039 Speaker 1: Right. 627 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 3: I thought it was a blast and two hours of golf. 628 00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:01,119 Any Yes, I love it. How did you feel about 629 00:34:01,119 --> 00:34:02,000 TGL this year? 630 00:34:03,079 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan, I really am. I just yeah. 631 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,599 And Fred, you've talked enough about it with your friends too, 632 00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:15,719 and I guarantee you the one within two sentences or 633 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,280 three sentences anytime somebody talks about it. I love the 634 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:23,800 shot clock. That's I mean there, it is right there, 635 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,400 and it's beautiful. You know. I don't know how you 636 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,840 would ever do it on a live tour event, but 637 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,760 you know, at some point it would almost behoove to 638 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,320 have that forty five second shot clock behind the green 639 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,199 to go, dude, that guy's taking a minute and a half. 640 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,679 And then you look at the official timing and you're like, 641 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,480 he's been checking his emails for the last forty five seconds. Oh, 642 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:50,280 let me start the buzzer, you know, so. 643 00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:53,559 Speaker 4: And then all of a sudden, boom boo boom, yeah 644 00:34:53,599 --> 00:34:57,760 boo boom boo boom, and it's it's kind of like 645 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,880 I it's so latable today because so many people and 646 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,159 the affordability of the technologies and the launch monitors and 647 00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:08,199 the home simulators and the net. 648 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,159 Speaker 1: I mean, people can do this in their house and 649 00:35:11,199 --> 00:35:13,159 they can kind of play the same. And you know, 650 00:35:13,639 --> 00:35:16,280 if you grow this thing out, you go, well, you 651 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,280 have your TGL leagues, but now you have your amateur leagues, 652 00:35:20,119 --> 00:35:22,280 and now you can get into sort of a bracket 653 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,000 division and go the people that when the Southeast Division 654 00:35:25,079 --> 00:35:30,239 are going to be part of the TGL Championship and 655 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,639 maybe the amateurs take on the pros. And I mean, 656 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,840 I love it. It's it simulates golf, but it simulates 657 00:35:40,159 --> 00:35:42,920 the strategy, It simulates the pressure that they're under with 658 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,599 the time clock. It simulates the camaraderie in this game, 659 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,239 and it's you know, it's but you don't have. 660 00:35:50,159 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 3: In tournament play because everyone's on their own island, right, 661 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,239 But here you have team golf, which we know team 662 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,000 golf works. Yes, between Ryder Cup and you know, President, 663 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:01,719 we know it works. 664 00:36:02,639 --> 00:36:05,559 Speaker 1: I I just I can't wait to see where it 665 00:36:05,599 --> 00:36:08,159 grows too, to be honest with you, because I think 666 00:36:08,199 --> 00:36:10,440 all it's going to do is keep getting better and 667 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,960 better and to have a time limit and go, hey, 668 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,800 I can watch this. Not only that, I can actually 669 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,760 go back and I can. I'm I'm of that age. 670 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,559 So do we still DVR or do we TVO? Or 671 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,079 we way past that? Now? 672 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 3: We record it? 673 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,280 Speaker 1: We recorded, Yes, that's what I We. 674 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 3: Don't say videotape anymore. We just record it. 675 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: But then you know, even you know, sometimes you go, oh, 676 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,000 don't tell me what happened in the last round of 677 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,199 the Masters, and then you rewatch it and you're like, Okay, 678 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,480 that's six hours out of my life, and you're trying 679 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,519 to fast forward and TGL You're like, man, this I 680 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,920 can watch this and I can do it quick and 681 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,960 I it's it's so accessible and it's so relatable to 682 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,760 an Okay, there's a gentleman who I call the authority 683 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,320 in the game of golf, and you need to have 684 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,320 him on the podcast once. His name is Tim Briand, 685 00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:10,159 and he is with foresight, and he is the source 686 00:37:10,199 --> 00:37:17,320 of information of nobody I've ever seen. At this point worldwide, 687 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:22,360 forty four percent of golf is off green grass. 688 00:37:24,639 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 3: Tell me that number again, forty four if. 689 00:37:28,119 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm not incorrect, and I'll tell you what after the 690 00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:33,480 podcast I'll come back and you can put a different 691 00:37:33,559 --> 00:37:36,239 number down there if that's what it was. But it's 692 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,679 so high to think that over forty percent of the 693 00:37:40,679 --> 00:37:43,960 golfers that's probably a better number, are not playing golf 694 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,719 on a golf course. They're at top Golf, They're at Puttshack, 695 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,519 They're at simulator places that are popping up all over 696 00:37:52,559 --> 00:37:55,880 the place. They're at their house, they're playing the World 697 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,039 Golf League and Fred, You and I have a golf 698 00:37:59,119 --> 00:38:02,239 date with Jim and Bob every Thursday night. We are 699 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,480 in our simulator room because we can afford the simulator. 700 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,880 And oh, by the way, this week we are playing 701 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,400 Oakmont and it's you and I best ball against their 702 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,280 alternate shot. I mean, these things are going on all 703 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,599 over the world. So the overall number of golfers is insane, 704 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:25,719 but how much golf is non golf course golf is amazing, 705 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:32,679 and that tgl is. I love everything that grows this game, literally, 706 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,760 and I do. I really love top golf. Everybody's like, 707 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,360 do you like it? And I'm like, well, you get 708 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,000 I'm kind of new. I go, well, then make sure 709 00:38:41,039 --> 00:38:43,079 you're on the second floor or higher because every shove 710 00:38:43,079 --> 00:38:49,280 will be airborne regardless of what's happening, right, But sometimes 711 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,079 that's as far as they go because it is fun 712 00:38:52,119 --> 00:38:53,800 to go there. It is fun to hang with your friends. 713 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,519 It's fun to get a little bite to eat and 714 00:38:55,559 --> 00:38:58,599 maybe grab a brew or something and have a few chuckles. 715 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,079 But the number of people that are like, gosh, I'd 716 00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:03,599 like to go try this on a golf course because 717 00:39:03,599 --> 00:39:05,960 it's a different game. But all of a sudden, the 718 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,360 simulator golf and then you see the tgl and you're like, okay, 719 00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:13,519 let's do that. That is just pushing and it's hanging 720 00:39:13,639 --> 00:39:16,320 the biggest it's not a carrot, it's a giant ice 721 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,559 chocolate cupcake. At the end of that stick to peepler 722 00:39:18,639 --> 00:39:21,400 going we are going to take a trip and we 723 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,480 are gonna go play sand Hills, Nebraska, and we're all in, 724 00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:27,320 let's go. And the same people who might not have 725 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,039 played the game four or five years ago but learned 726 00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:32,719 it on a simulator and they get pushed forward there. 727 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 3: But does it grow the game? 728 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: I think it grows the game, and I also think 729 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,920 that it grows the participation on green grass golf courses. 730 00:39:44,159 --> 00:39:47,360 You do think so, yeah, because you know at some 731 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,719 point you go, oh, my gosh, I had no idea 732 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,360 the hill on this hole was that bad. Yeah, and 733 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,719 then you get that real life tingle and you're like, 734 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,280 oh man, this is insane. I can't I can't believe 735 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,079 we're here. So it it grows. 736 00:40:01,159 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and it's interesting because you know, is TGL 737 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,960 leading the way and simulator golf or they just like 738 00:40:09,519 --> 00:40:12,119 this is going on and it really represents what is 739 00:40:12,159 --> 00:40:17,119 going on, and now we have a media outlet to 740 00:40:17,159 --> 00:40:19,199 it that people are like, oh, you see, we are 741 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,280 doing that, right, So you think that the future of 742 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,199 simulator golf is the real thing. 743 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they opened that can and all of 744 00:40:28,599 --> 00:40:33,599 a sudden they're going, lord yeah, I mean yeah the can. 745 00:40:34,039 --> 00:40:37,519 Speaker 3: Ye I was like, what was that noise you just made? 746 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:42,800 Speaker 1: But literally, when you go over to Korea, so much 747 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,760 of the golf is played in simulator rooms. I mean, 748 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,159 that is your golf outing because the courses are so 749 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,360 difficult to get on. And all of a sudden they 750 00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:53,159 peered open through that door and you go, my gosh. 751 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,239 People have been doing this all over the world for 752 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,679 the last eight to ten years, and now it's not like, 753 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,039 come on, everybody, let's go. Do I feel like, do 754 00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:03,679 you guys realize how many people have been doing this 755 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,400 for the last six, seven, eight years and it's a 756 00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:10,079 big fan, a huge fan. 757 00:41:10,199 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 3: And I think that you know, in the fifties and 758 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,119 sixties it was bowling alleys. I think simulators. I actually 759 00:41:17,119 --> 00:41:19,320 think if you get a room that has simulators and 760 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,159 bowling and maybe even a couple ping pong tables, put 761 00:41:23,159 --> 00:41:25,320 a stage in a bar, we've got a room. 762 00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:25,800 Speaker 1: Right. 763 00:41:26,679 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 3: So do you like on TVL. 764 00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:32,280 Speaker 1: Pain putt and pen paint putt and pins? 765 00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:38,840 Speaker 3: Be careful, yes, exactly. Now do you do you like 766 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,239 on TGL how they're playing courses, you know, holes that 767 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,320 are designed that no one's ever seen before. It's like, 768 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,840 you know, we hear about oh I want to go 769 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,440 play Bethpage Black because that's what the pros. Well, you 770 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,719 can't play that course and you know the way they 771 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,719 play it, right, But this is a course only the 772 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:01,079 hand selected best players in the world are getting to play. 773 00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:03,760 Do you like that or do you wish you saw 774 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,599 a little bit of pebble, a little bit of Saint Andrews, 775 00:42:06,599 --> 00:42:08,400 a little bit of you know, sawgrass. 776 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,119 Speaker 1: I think in a different way like with TGL and 777 00:42:12,199 --> 00:42:15,199 some of those holes that. I mean, that's another avenue 778 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,360 for the amateur, be it a golfer, an amateur architect 779 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:19,719 could go, I have an idea for a hole you 780 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,719 guys could play and Fred you and I. I'm surprised 781 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:25,880 they haven't done this yet, but I want to say, 782 00:42:26,039 --> 00:42:30,320 was his name Lloyd or Loyal Chapman that used to 783 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,239 make the paintings of the insane golf holes, you know, 784 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,840 like the side of the Grand Canyon where it just 785 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:42,159 dropped and then you know you had the machog. Yeah, yeah, 786 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,239 and so again another avenue that brings more people into 787 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:48,119 the game and interest to kind of go, hey, why 788 00:42:48,159 --> 00:42:50,159 don't you design a hole? Maybe you can end up 789 00:42:50,199 --> 00:42:51,000 on TGL. 790 00:42:51,559 --> 00:42:53,760 Speaker 3: That's a great idea to open it up for a 791 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:59,760 design contest. Wow. Yeah again, and it's you know, once 792 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:01,800 that out there, then you go, how do I How 793 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,880 do I play that golfle on my simulator? 794 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,320 Speaker 1: That looks like so much fun? Right, And maybe it's 795 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,800 not a real golfer in real life, but you go, 796 00:43:09,159 --> 00:43:10,440 I got to play with the pros played. 797 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,760 Speaker 3: There you go? There you go, though, maybe they should 798 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:18,079 make them available. We had Augie Pisa who designed you know, 799 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,000 he was one of the three designers and he talked 800 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,239 about those assignments. It was great. Do you know since 801 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,320 you were really tapped into the LPGA, do you know 802 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,559 of any women that have been approached that they said, Hey, 803 00:43:30,559 --> 00:43:35,440 we're going to do an LPGA TGL or possibly even 804 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,440 co ed teams. I just think that the what they 805 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,400 can do with different teams now, between co ed, between 806 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,159 the seniors, between you know, bringing in amateurs or not. 807 00:43:48,079 --> 00:43:50,239 I think that there's something that they can do to 808 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,480 make this. It just doesn't have to be one time 809 00:43:53,519 --> 00:43:56,800 of year. It could be. I'm sure ESPN's looking to 810 00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:58,840 expand this because it worked for them. 811 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it could definitely be things to do in 812 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,079 the off season. Do I know if anybody has approached 813 00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:06,880 the LPGA. I do not at this point, but I 814 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,519 will tell you this, the comments and the interest from 815 00:44:10,559 --> 00:44:13,039 the ladies out there is like, that would be so 816 00:44:13,199 --> 00:44:16,039 much fun. That would be so much fun, and it's like, oh, 817 00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:18,159 we definitely have to get the team. We've got to 818 00:44:18,199 --> 00:44:22,480 get you know, Lexi Thompson and Maria Fosse for length 819 00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:24,840 off the tee and oh my gosh, you know we 820 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,079 can bring inby Park out of retirement. She's one of 821 00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:29,559 the greatest putters ever and all of a sudden you go, 822 00:44:30,199 --> 00:44:33,239 So the enthusiasm is there on the lady side. And 823 00:44:33,519 --> 00:44:35,840 I've heard that same comment too. It'd be like, wow, 824 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:37,440 if they could do a co ed thing, it would 825 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,159 be really neat. 826 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,480 Speaker 3: Right, right, Yeah, but less I think for seniors to bring. 827 00:44:42,599 --> 00:44:44,559 You know, it's like, the thing that was beautiful about 828 00:44:44,559 --> 00:44:47,360 seeing Tiger first of all, is that it made him human, 829 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,800 unlike anything we've ever seen. He was having so much fun, 830 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,239 and he was vulnerable, and he made mistakes. We love 831 00:44:54,360 --> 00:45:00,679 to see that, right, But with we're not going to 832 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,719 see Tiger walk seventy two holes again. No, I'm pretty much. 833 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:09,400 I think everyone can agree that that ship has sailed, unfortunately, 834 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,400 but he can play a TG. He can play it 835 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,519 so far in Florida, right it's around not only around 836 00:45:15,519 --> 00:45:18,199 the corner from his house. But seniors don't have to 837 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,639 have that seventy two holes of walking. They have two 838 00:45:21,679 --> 00:45:26,119 hours of going from this hole, you know, from hitting 839 00:45:26,119 --> 00:45:29,159 over here on the grass to their little funny green. 840 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,079 Speaker 1: Fred, You're an influencer in this business, and the only 841 00:45:33,119 --> 00:45:35,840 thing that's going through my mind right now is they 842 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,400 can definitely have a Wendy's three Tour Challenge on the TGL, 843 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,000 and that was I got to go to those a 844 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,480 couple of years with Stacy Lewis and to talk about 845 00:45:45,519 --> 00:45:48,760 how much fun those players had and how much fun 846 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,760 the spectators had. But it was neat to see the players. 847 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,840 I remember the one year Stacey played with bou Weekley 848 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,519 and Kenny Perry and to just be standing there to 849 00:45:59,559 --> 00:46:02,599 the side and then watch them. You know, Boo is like, 850 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,320 how do you hit that shot? And then Kenny Perry's 851 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,039 coming over and he's like, you know, I found that 852 00:46:08,199 --> 00:46:11,719 as I got older, I changed this a little bit 853 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,599 and that actually gave me more distance on my driver, 854 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,360 changing this in my swing and I'm over there. I 855 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:22,599 can't write things down past he speaks slower, please, But 856 00:46:23,039 --> 00:46:26,039 what a simplistic idea, but that that was so much 857 00:46:26,119 --> 00:46:28,559 fun for the players. And when you get those, when 858 00:46:28,599 --> 00:46:30,599 you get the co Eds or you bring the seniors in, 859 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,440 every one of those players in the group learns something 860 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,280 from one another. And it isn't just like I got 861 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,239 to hit it longer, or I got a putt better 862 00:46:39,679 --> 00:46:43,360 to it's it's just great being around and go all right, 863 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,760 I'll tell you something I've never told anybody else. Now 864 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,199 here's what I do out of the rough. I actually 865 00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,679 swing slower than my normal swing, so the grass has 866 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,679 time to part out of the way, so the club 867 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:55,320 will hit the back of the ball. Whatever. And you 868 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,559 hear these things and you're like, Okay, we're going to 869 00:46:57,599 --> 00:46:59,159 go try that as soon as we're off the course. 870 00:47:00,119 --> 00:47:01,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. 871 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:03,039 Speaker 1: That's where the secrets come out. 872 00:47:03,679 --> 00:47:07,360 Speaker 3: Yep, yep. A lot of fun, as is having a 873 00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:11,400 conversation with you, my friend. I really really appreciate you 874 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,400 coming back on and helping us celebrate episode one thousand 875 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:20,000 coming up, and being part of our cavalcade of creative 876 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,440 geniuses who we get to pick the brains of Joe Hallett. 877 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:25,400 You're my hero. 878 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,000 Speaker 1: I thank you, man Fred. Anytime you call, I tend 879 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,159 to pick up the phone. Now sometimes I don't sign 880 00:47:31,199 --> 00:47:33,880 on in time, but my man, what you do for 881 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,639 this game. First of all, congrats on the thousand. You're 882 00:47:37,679 --> 00:47:42,480 off on your journey for the next one thousand and 883 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,679 if anybody wants to, I mean, the beauty of what 884 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,760 you do is any player of any level can learn something, 885 00:47:50,039 --> 00:47:52,559 have fun, have a laugh, and take something to the 886 00:47:52,599 --> 00:47:55,119 golf course. When they're done, and that is the way 887 00:47:55,119 --> 00:47:57,519 you get people interested in the game and keep playing. 888 00:47:57,639 --> 00:47:58,639 You're doing a great job.