1 00:00:17,559 --> 00:00:20,399 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:20,559 --> 00:00:24,160 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the 3 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:29,000 Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:29,399 --> 00:00:32,079 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:36,560 the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDRLST, 6 00:00:37,439 --> 00:00:40,560 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:40,799 --> 00:00:44,039 course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:44,679 --> 00:00:48,479 Our guest today is Michael Walsh, whose new book Against 9 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,799 the Corporate Media Forty two Ways the Press Hates You 10 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:58,640 It's coming out, in fact, it is out and everywhere 11 00:00:58,719 --> 00:01:04,239 right now, presents a collection of more than forty essays 12 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,799 on the decline and fall of the America and international 13 00:01:07,879 --> 00:01:12,599 news media. The book's list of distinguished contributors includes folks 14 00:01:12,719 --> 00:01:19,920 like Lance Morrow, John Olsullivan, Monica Crowley, Charlie Kirk, Glenn Reynolds, 15 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,760 and many more. We're going to delve into all of 16 00:01:22,799 --> 00:01:27,359 that coming up momentarily, but first let us welcome into 17 00:01:27,799 --> 00:01:32,319 this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour Michael Walsh. Good day, sir, 18 00:01:32,359 --> 00:01:33,319 Thank you for joining us. 19 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:35,799 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me on that. I appreciate it. 20 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,079 Speaker 1: I want to get fully into the book, and we 21 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,959 will do that, but we must begin where the media 22 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:50,000 has been playing a major role in some horrific events 23 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,079 in this country of late, and I begin with the 24 00:01:53,319 --> 00:01:58,760 latest sad to say, the latest assassination attempt against former 25 00:01:58,799 --> 00:02:06,959 President Donald Trump is obviously the GOP's presidential candidate. The media, 26 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,360 the corporate media, the accomplice media, as I like to 27 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:18,840 call them, really went beyond the pale this weekend, and 28 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:23,319 certainly its initial coverage of what the FBI and others 29 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:29,120 are calling an assassination attempt against the former president. It 30 00:02:29,199 --> 00:02:33,000 was your initial thoughts on the coverage and what we 31 00:02:33,039 --> 00:02:35,319 saw from some of the major players. 32 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting. I'm here in Central Europe at the moment. 33 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:44,520 So I first sat on Twitter x last night as 34 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,840 I was having dinner, and at that point they had 35 00:02:47,879 --> 00:02:52,439 already dismissed it as so as unbelievable as this makes 36 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:57,000 up two guys having a gunfight on the golf course 37 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,240 in West Palm Beach in where as you know, everybody 38 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,000 walks around armed all whole lot. 39 00:03:03,319 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: Yes to the hell yeah. 40 00:03:04,759 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 2: So I went to bed thinking, well, that's weird that 41 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:12,560 you know, it is twenty twenty four and then I 42 00:03:12,599 --> 00:03:16,240 woke up to the news that it was actually oops, 43 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,520 yet another assassination attempt. Bye, yet another one of the 44 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:25,439 usual suspects for yet again the same reason and driven 45 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,199 to do what he did by the same people, the 46 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,039 mainstream media. So it's a perfect tie to what we're 47 00:03:33,039 --> 00:03:35,560 talking about today, Federalists. 48 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,159 Speaker 1: You know, we've written a number of stories on that, 49 00:03:38,599 --> 00:03:40,840 and obviously we're going to take a look as well 50 00:03:40,879 --> 00:03:44,479 at the way the media has covered this. I think 51 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:49,159 what one of the more remarkable stories in Lester Holt 52 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,120 is not alone, but the anchor man for NBC News 53 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:59,120 was quick to blame Donald Trump for having someone try 54 00:03:59,159 --> 00:04:04,039 to it appears to take his life, just as we've 55 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,840 seen if they weren't, if they haven't memory hold the 56 00:04:07,879 --> 00:04:13,520 Butler Pennsylvania assassination attempt against former President Donald Trump on 57 00:04:13,639 --> 00:04:17,920 July thirteenth of this year. And I will ask you this, 58 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,040 do you think they will memory hold this again? Because 59 00:04:22,439 --> 00:04:27,680 it doesn't help Kamala Harris and Tim Walls in their 60 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:34,920 election pursuit their campaign pursuit. And also it is just 61 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:39,759 absolutely amazing. What do you think about these corporate actors 62 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:45,920 talking about Donald Trump means needs to turn down the heat. Well, 63 00:04:46,519 --> 00:04:49,560 seventy eight year old man really should wear short skirts 64 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,680 like that out public. It's just that provocative thing that 65 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,959 he does. But then again, he provokes them simply by existing. 66 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:00,879 So I heard real. 67 00:05:02,399 --> 00:05:06,079 Speaker 2: Statement on MSNBC thanks to the miracle of Elon Musk 68 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,720 and X, where you can actually learn things that aren't 69 00:05:09,759 --> 00:05:13,240 covered up and smothered with a pillow. As my friend 70 00:05:13,319 --> 00:05:16,600 Dave Birch once said about the function of the media, 71 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:22,560 I did hear him say that it was in effect 72 00:05:23,439 --> 00:05:28,759 Trump's fault for ratcheting up the rhetoric. And also there 73 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,839 is this bogus context device that journalists hughes. The New 74 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,360 York Times started it. We used to joke about it, 75 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:43,199 saying that such and such an event quote comes at 76 00:05:43,199 --> 00:05:46,879 a time when and then you drag in something completely 77 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,199 extraneous to the event, just so you can make your 78 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:55,680 larger narrative point. So that's effectively what Holt was doing today, saying, 79 00:05:55,759 --> 00:05:58,480 and this news comes at a time when and then 80 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,680 we start blaming the republic. The media is wholly in 81 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,360 the tank in a way that it wasn't even when 82 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,680 we started this book a year and a half ago. 83 00:06:08,759 --> 00:06:12,800 You know, these books don't just happen overnight. And in 84 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:18,439 this case, I had to commission forty other writers and 85 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:23,399 assign them the topic and negotiate and get them done 86 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,360 and edit them and put them in some kind of order. 87 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:31,319 It's a large project, so it takes some time. But 88 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,279 we were guessing that right around the election, the media 89 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,920 would disgrace itself. We just had no idea how badly 90 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,519 they would disgrace themselves. 91 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: Oh, we get a new level, a lower level every day, 92 00:06:46,199 --> 00:06:48,240 every time you think that they can see And I 93 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,879 guess that's the question too. Two questions as we focus 94 00:06:52,959 --> 00:06:56,160 on your extraordinary new book into this and it is 95 00:06:56,199 --> 00:06:58,160 a deep dive with a lot of folks who have 96 00:06:58,199 --> 00:07:00,920 a lot of experience on this front, I guess the 97 00:07:01,199 --> 00:07:04,040 question is how did we get here? And the other 98 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,920 related question is do we hate corporate media enough? Well? 99 00:07:11,079 --> 00:07:13,759 Speaker 2: And he asked the sacd question is you think you can, 100 00:07:13,879 --> 00:07:17,639 but you haven't plumbed the depth yet. How much you 101 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,319 can load these people? How we got here is is 102 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,680 really simple, Donald Trump, That's how we got here. They've 103 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,920 been wanting to get here for a long time. But 104 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:33,680 there's a notorious essay in the New York Times back 105 00:07:33,759 --> 00:07:37,199 during the first Trump campaign by a man named Jim 106 00:07:37,319 --> 00:07:41,360 Ruttenberg who said, basically, the Trump's not a normal candidate. 107 00:07:41,959 --> 00:07:45,120 He will not be extended the courtesy of being treated 108 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:50,199 respectfully or with fairness or even handedness, because that's a lie, 109 00:07:50,759 --> 00:07:57,199 and we will cover him antagonistically. And from that moment on, 110 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:02,040 as you've seen by just by watching Morning Joe or 111 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:07,879 reading Twitter or any of the outlets of the corporate media, 112 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,800 you've seen reporters who I thought, in fact somewhat reporters 113 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:18,319 I'd worked with, saying this are the unthinkable, which is 114 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,160 that there are there is not two sides, that there 115 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,399 are not two sides to this story. Trump is not 116 00:08:25,519 --> 00:08:29,000 a normal candidate and he should be extended no courtesies 117 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,240 at all, despite the fact of his status as a 118 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,399 former president of the United States, despite the fact of 119 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:40,240 his status as as the leading now the Republican candidate 120 00:08:40,519 --> 00:08:44,200 and perhaps ahead in the polls, that Trump would be 121 00:08:44,519 --> 00:08:49,200 absolutely anathema to them, and you still see it. I 122 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,559 still read men whom I worked with at Time magazine 123 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,480 back in the last glory days of Time, when it 124 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,600 was the best magazine in the world. I've seen guys 125 00:09:00,159 --> 00:09:04,320 that I've known for a long time, explicitly come out 126 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:09,120 and say the gloves are off. It is, in fact 127 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,960 a sin against journalism and democracy for you to give 128 00:09:13,039 --> 00:09:15,720 this man any courtesy whatsoever. 129 00:09:16,279 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: Man here, we are here, we are Yeah. And isn't 130 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,799 it amazing? That's how the US Secret Service offers protection 131 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,720 to the former president as well. How often have we 132 00:09:26,759 --> 00:09:29,519 heard over the last couple of months in this country. 133 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,840 You know, he's not the sitting president, so he doesn't 134 00:09:31,879 --> 00:09:35,600 deserve the kind of protection which is just ludicrous. But 135 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:37,320 back back to your point and back to the book. 136 00:09:37,759 --> 00:09:41,799 You know, I remember I joke, but I don't think 137 00:09:41,879 --> 00:09:43,440 it's really a joke. 138 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: I talk about. 139 00:09:44,519 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: Journalists today, coming from the Aaron Sorkin School of journalism. 140 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,399 I bring this up because there was a show called. 141 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:54,039 Speaker 2: The news Room. 142 00:09:54,799 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: It was about the hard hitting TV news room. It was, 143 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,279 you know, a kind of a I don't know if 144 00:10:03,279 --> 00:10:06,759 they were trying to portray themselves as a Fox, you know, 145 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,559 sort of network. But you had in Jeff Daniels who 146 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,480 played the main character. You know, he was the main anchor, 147 00:10:14,519 --> 00:10:17,759 and he was the Republican's pal. And then he had 148 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,440 an epiphany in his road to Damascus moment where he said, 149 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,240 you know what, just because somebody says that we don't 150 00:10:25,279 --> 00:10:28,559 have to cover them, just simply because they have a 151 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,039 different point of view. That was the whole idea of 152 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:36,039 this show. And it really was presented as the leftist 153 00:10:36,039 --> 00:10:39,799 Aaron Sorkin, you might suspect, presented as this is the 154 00:10:39,879 --> 00:10:43,399 way we ought to do journalism. That was a fictional show. 155 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,639 But those are the lessons Michael, that it seems to 156 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,240 me that were applied to American journalism more than a 157 00:10:49,279 --> 00:10:50,039 decade ago. 158 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 2: Yes, that's true. It's Aaron Sorkin is an extremely skilled writer. 159 00:10:56,759 --> 00:10:59,279 It's one of the best in Hollywood, and that makes 160 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:07,399 him extremely effective. So it's funny that one can joke 161 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,200 to him that he wrote one of the most conservative 162 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:15,559 movies ever made, a Few Good Men. But it will 163 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,120 be a shock to find that everybody thinks of Jack 164 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,080 Nicholson as the hero of that movie and not Todd Truce. 165 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,480 So sometimes the left doesn't understand the message they're actually selling. 166 00:11:27,519 --> 00:11:30,600 But in this case, Sorkin with selling this notion of 167 00:11:30,759 --> 00:11:34,360 activist journalism. Now, this goes back to when I started 168 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,279 in journalism, which was nineteen seventy two, and back then, 169 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,320 if you wanted to change the world. You became either 170 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,279 a lawyer or a journalist. Now most journalists starts smart 171 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,799 enough to be lawyers. And I'm not saying lawyers are 172 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,279 smarter or anything, trust me, but that's how far down 173 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,360 the wrong they were. But they were motivated by this 174 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,919 desire to do good. But in this case it's the 175 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:03,799 sixties generation and it's my boomer generation's definition of doing good, 176 00:12:04,399 --> 00:12:08,720 which means being an activist for social causes. And if 177 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:14,200 you'll recall that the watchword, the phrase at that time, 178 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,600 which is still very much in effect, is by any 179 00:12:17,919 --> 00:12:22,120 means necessary. That's a Spike Lee. He uses that in 180 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,360 his movies. It is very characteristic of guys who grew 181 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:29,080 up during the sixties who were against the Vietnam War 182 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,399 or the draft or whatever. The cause through sure was 183 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:39,159 by any means necessary. And the problem with conservatives is 184 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,600 we don't believe it when they say it. We don't 185 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,480 believe it, but they do mean it, and by any 186 00:12:45,519 --> 00:12:49,960 means necessary means exactly what it says, so they will 187 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,480 kill in the pursuit of their objective. And now you've 188 00:12:53,519 --> 00:12:55,000 seen it twice. 189 00:12:55,279 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting that you talk about when you 190 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,440 got your start in journalism in nineteen seventy two. I'm 191 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,200 going to date myself here. I've been around the block 192 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,879 for a few years. I was born in the summer 193 00:13:06,919 --> 00:13:12,799 of Watergate, nineteen seventy two. And I'm curious what you 194 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:17,799 think about this, because I believe that there was a time, 195 00:13:18,039 --> 00:13:23,679 you know, and journalism in America has always tended lefters, 196 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:29,039 long tended left, but there was a professional honesty in it, 197 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:34,600 you know, and it's hard to believe in modern day journalism, 198 00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:38,360 but there was an honesty to it in that if 199 00:13:39,039 --> 00:13:45,120 you know, whoever was was behaving badly, whoever was corrupt, 200 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,679 those are the politicians you went after, the policymakers or whatever. 201 00:13:49,879 --> 00:13:52,960 And it didn't matter. We saw a lot of great 202 00:13:53,039 --> 00:13:57,240 journalism about bad democrats in Chicago over the years. But 203 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:02,399 I really do believe that a switch, something changed fundamentally 204 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:08,080 in journalism with all the President's men. I mean, the 205 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,519 coverage of Watergate at that time kind of set the 206 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:18,440 template for, you know, the one sided kind of journalism 207 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:24,600 that we have seen, the narrative forming, crusading journalism that 208 00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:28,360 we have seen in this country that I think fundamentally 209 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:29,960 changed at that point. Where does it go. 210 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,879 Speaker 2: Back farther well, I think that's right in a way. 211 00:14:34,279 --> 00:14:36,759 I don't think Carl Burstein is a friend of mine, 212 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:42,000 and simply because we're of the same age. Basically, when 213 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,799 I was a young reporter that summer watching him, I 214 00:14:45,799 --> 00:14:50,120 didn't know him at the time. And Woodward breaks story 215 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,519 after story after story, and they were really a role 216 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,159 model for a lot of us who realized that the 217 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,200 or certainly believed that the goal of this job was 218 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:06,879 to break stories, was to unearth information that somebody didn't 219 00:15:06,919 --> 00:15:13,200 want published, under the guidance of more experienced elder journalistic 220 00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:16,840 Hans Now in retrospect, and we have an essay by 221 00:15:16,919 --> 00:15:22,440 Monica Crowley in against the corporate media called Nixon and 222 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:27,799 the weaponization of media hatred. They all hated Nixon, and 223 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:32,360 people young people today are astounded to discover that Nixon 224 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:40,080 in nineteen seventy two had just won the biggest landslide 225 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,240 in American political history, basically one of two or three. 226 00:15:43,919 --> 00:15:47,519 He swept forty nine states, and less than two years 227 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:52,480 later he was gone, just gone, baby gone. That really 228 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,919 was the beginning of the oh my, we can even 229 00:15:56,039 --> 00:16:02,320 take down a enormously popularly elected president. And I don't 230 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,399 think that Carl or Bob meant to do that, but 231 00:16:06,519 --> 00:16:09,120 I think a lot of people learned the wrong lessons 232 00:16:09,159 --> 00:16:13,919 from what in fact did happen, and so now today, 233 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:21,759 by any means necessary, them is the rules. Baby, we have. 234 00:16:21,799 --> 00:16:23,919 Speaker 3: A huge hole in our nation's roof. 235 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,799 Speaker 4: The watch Dout on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski 236 00:16:26,879 --> 00:16:29,720 every day Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and 237 00:16:29,759 --> 00:16:31,600 the economy and how it affects your wallet. 238 00:16:31,759 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 3: There should be only one priority for our lawmakers. America 239 00:16:35,399 --> 00:16:38,759 is spending three billion dollars a day in paying off 240 00:16:38,759 --> 00:16:41,039 our own interests. You only need to be voting for 241 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,879 candidates who can address this problem. Whether it's happening in 242 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,360 DC or down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. 243 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 2: Be informed. 244 00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:49,159 Speaker 4: Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris 245 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,720 Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 246 00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:59,879 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I agree. I think that became the ten 247 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,240 for what has also happened. And I'm curious if the 248 00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:07,839 book deals with this. The Jim Acostas of the world, 249 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,160 and he's not alone, but he's one of the more 250 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,720 egregious examples where you have the journalists and I'm not 251 00:17:13,759 --> 00:17:17,200 saying Woodward and Bernstein did this. I think you're right. 252 00:17:17,279 --> 00:17:20,640 I think they were onto a you know, a story 253 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,599 that had, you know, great historical significance. I think they 254 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,279 understood that at the time. But I see, you know, 255 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,359 the modern day journalist and Jim Acosta goes back a 256 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:37,880 while where they're infusing themselves into the story. They're becoming 257 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:44,039 the story. And that's different in the main in American journalism, 258 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:44,480 is it not? 259 00:17:45,079 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 2: Yes, it is. There was always a stricture against becoming 260 00:17:48,759 --> 00:17:54,640 a celebrity journalist. Journalists were not supposed to be well known. 261 00:17:55,519 --> 00:17:59,720 In fact, when I went to Time, byelines had just 262 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,799 begun to be given to the writers at Time magazine. 263 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,240 You went to Time, and by the way, you didn't 264 00:18:08,279 --> 00:18:10,640 ask to go to Time. Time asked you to go 265 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:16,359 to Time. But you also accepted the notion that I 266 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:17,799 worked in the back of the book, and I was 267 00:18:17,799 --> 00:18:20,400 a critic, so I did get a byline, but it 268 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,160 was a little tiny byline at the bottom of your story, 269 00:18:24,839 --> 00:18:27,880 and it could be withheld if they wished to. But 270 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,799 most of the other writers didn't even get that, and 271 00:18:31,039 --> 00:18:34,400 that was fine with us. We didn't need to see 272 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,599 our faces on television. I'm still quite averse to it. Frankly, 273 00:18:39,799 --> 00:18:43,240 we didn't need the glory. We were being paid well, 274 00:18:43,319 --> 00:18:45,119 and we had a great job, and we worked for 275 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:50,480 a great institution, and that's all that mattered. The gem 276 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,680 Acostas of the world, the TV airheads, they've always been 277 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,279 a problem. I mean, there was everyone knew Walter Cronkite, 278 00:18:58,279 --> 00:19:01,759 but he wasn't an airhead. He was sort of a vuncular, 279 00:19:02,039 --> 00:19:05,519 a veteran of World War Two journalism, a man with 280 00:19:05,599 --> 00:19:10,119 a sterling resume, and the other anchors at that time 281 00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:17,359 were similarly situated. Now they've become basically celebrities in their 282 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,200 own weird sort of way. No one takes their opinions 283 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:28,720 particularly seriously, but they enjoy the notoriety. And I don't 284 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,799 mean the fame. I mean the notoriety that comes with 285 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:39,079 being objects of derision, which they are. But they don't care. 286 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,279 They're making a fortune. So who's got the last laugh 287 00:19:42,319 --> 00:19:46,400 at this point? That's the question. I suppose. Our guest 288 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,359 today is Michael Walsh, whose new book very compelling against 289 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:55,599 the corporate media, forty two Waves The Press Hates You. 290 00:19:55,599 --> 00:19:59,039 You can find it just about everywhere. Now again, the 291 00:19:59,039 --> 00:20:02,039 book presents a colle election of more than forty essays 292 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,640 on the decline and fall of the American and international 293 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:12,000 news media. Speaking of which, here's something that is anybody 294 00:20:12,079 --> 00:20:17,559 following the headlines over the last four years in this country, 295 00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:21,440 and really over the last eight years in this country 296 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:27,759 eight plus years now, we're seeing news as psychological operation. 297 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,920 I believe the book delves into that topic as well. 298 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:38,279 But it is an amazing turn of events what we've 299 00:20:38,319 --> 00:20:42,240 seen through COVID, what we have seen through the election 300 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,519 of twenty twenty, where we have journalists who are on 301 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:52,839 board against the First Amendment. I mean, these are remarkable days, Michael, 302 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,880 they are they're palling days two. But what has happened 303 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,799 is that journalists have become now drawn from the same 304 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,119 social class as the people they covered. And this is 305 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,079 a very very important change. I think there were several 306 00:21:09,079 --> 00:21:14,880 important changes. One is a male dominated profession became feminized. 307 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,759 And two it became an upper middle class to lower 308 00:21:19,839 --> 00:21:24,279 upper class profession and not the street kids who were 309 00:21:24,319 --> 00:21:27,839 the editors when I first started. So these are enormous, 310 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,519 These are enormously important changes. The journalists today, the ones 311 00:21:31,559 --> 00:21:34,000 who make it as far as Washington and now they 312 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,920 all want to start in Washington, Uh. They went to 313 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:42,880 the same schools. They've married the same people, They've swapped 314 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,759 spouses with the same people. They have summer houses in 315 00:21:46,799 --> 00:21:52,119 the same neighborhoods, either in Long Island or in Behoveth 316 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:57,759 or in upstate in the Berkshires, which happened to be 317 00:21:57,759 --> 00:22:01,519 where I live. They all know each other. We go 318 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:06,000 back fifty There's still plenty of guys I work with 319 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,839 fifty two years ago who are still in the business 320 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,599 because baby boomers never die. As you can see, we 321 00:22:12,759 --> 00:22:17,599 just keep staggering on forever because we have old soldiers. 322 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,279 So that's one change. And the fact also that it's 323 00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:24,480 been feminized, I think has a tremendous impact. We have 324 00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:28,079 an essay about that by Priscilla Turner in this book 325 00:22:28,519 --> 00:22:33,880 about how women change journalism, and it changed from that 326 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:40,319 rude street wise up yours. I'm getting the story, even 327 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,720 if it means I have to break the law a 328 00:22:42,759 --> 00:22:45,440 little bit to do it, if I have to steal 329 00:22:45,519 --> 00:22:48,079 the photograph off that person's desk, or if I have 330 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,200 to rummage in the garbage. You can go back to 331 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,920 the nineteen thirties set and see the great journalism movies, 332 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:59,799 one of which start. Each don I died with James 333 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,759 is reported and get sent to jail. The journalists would 334 00:23:04,839 --> 00:23:07,960 do anything to get the story and they'd be defended. 335 00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:12,400 But that was when they were males, and now females 336 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:18,839 find that a little bit icky. It's beneath them. They're 337 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,799 more concerned with consensus and groupthink than men are. I 338 00:23:23,839 --> 00:23:27,880 think that's a fair statement. And what we see from 339 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:33,160 the feminization of journalism is this, everyone has to play nice, 340 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,440 and if you don't, you will go sit in the 341 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,599 corner for the rest of your life and those peace 342 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,039 will get cold. You know how dominating your mom or 343 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,519 if you're like me you grew up with the nuns 344 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,559 can be. And so we've got this sort of type 345 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:53,039 now in journalism who really feels that they're right and 346 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,839 they're going to force these piece down your throat of 347 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,359 what's the last thing they do. So these are two 348 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,559 of the things that have changed. And the social pressure 349 00:24:03,599 --> 00:24:08,000 cannot be underestimated. They don't want to make their friends 350 00:24:08,079 --> 00:24:12,359 look bad. It would be the old days, journalist, you'd 351 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,799 be friends, but you cut the other guy's throat on 352 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,359 that morning newspaper. You were in the afternoon newspaper because 353 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,279 you had to have that story first. And I found 354 00:24:21,279 --> 00:24:23,880 myself in that position when I went to San Francisco 355 00:24:24,279 --> 00:24:27,079 to report a big story with not in the cosmic 356 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,839 scheme of things, but locally, and I'd be damned if 357 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,680 I was not going to get it before the other guy. 358 00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:37,680 Oh yeah, that's how you thought. But now it really 359 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,960 doesn't matter because eventually everyone gets to the same place, 360 00:24:41,599 --> 00:24:44,839 and so journalism has been in a way castrated, and 361 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,039 I don't think that's been helpful for the country. 362 00:24:47,519 --> 00:24:49,799 Speaker 1: You talk about it. I think that's interesting. Everybody gets 363 00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:52,640 to the same place, But what about getting to the 364 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,799 same narrative where you see the same talking points that 365 00:24:55,839 --> 00:25:01,240 are basically regurgitated from the White House from you know, 366 00:25:01,279 --> 00:25:03,680 from the spokes Well, they all go to you know, 367 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,720 I'm sorry, go ahead, no, no, I did. I'm just curious. 368 00:25:07,759 --> 00:25:10,559 I mean, how did we we get to this point 369 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,680 where the talking points of the White House are the 370 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:14,640 stories of the day. 371 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,799 Speaker 2: Well, there's also an essay in the book by John 372 00:25:17,839 --> 00:25:22,480 O'sump about the revolving door between government and journalism. It 373 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,240 used to be that if you were a journalist and 374 00:25:24,279 --> 00:25:27,599 you went into the government, you never went back to journalism. 375 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,000 If you were a journalist and you went into pr 376 00:25:30,519 --> 00:25:33,640 you would never be able to go back to journalism 377 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,960 because you had compromised your inteke, literally compromised your integrity. 378 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,759 That's not true now. So now you see journalists going 379 00:25:41,799 --> 00:25:43,799 in and out of the White House depending on which 380 00:25:43,839 --> 00:25:48,240 party is in power, and while they're out of power, 381 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:53,319 they get stored away at some think think tank or 382 00:25:53,319 --> 00:25:56,000 on the New York Times or I remember going to 383 00:25:56,039 --> 00:25:59,279 a party once for a friend of mine, a liberal journalist, 384 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,920 and was filled with people from the New York Times, 385 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,440 including Art Sealzburg, and they were all joking how they 386 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,599 were just sort of waiting, you know, for the next 387 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,440 Democrat administration to come back and then then go back 388 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,599 to Washington again and work in the White House. Wow. 389 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,799 So that's that's the way the game is played now. 390 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,759 And as a result, consensus. It gets back to my 391 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:27,039 critique of the feminization process too. Consensus is much much 392 00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:30,720 more important than breaking stories. It's just you don't want 393 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,160 to be the skunk at the garden party, and especially 394 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,839 when you work with and in many cases are married to, 395 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:38,799 people in the administration. 396 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,799 Speaker 1: Indeed, but I just keep thinking about you know, I 397 00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:47,920 guess it harkens back, and you get enough older journalism, 398 00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:51,759 older journalists in the room, and you get stories of 399 00:26:51,839 --> 00:26:54,200 back in my day kind of thing. And obviously you 400 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:59,079 and I both know that journalism is it ain't going 401 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,240 back to what we used to know it to be. Fourth, 402 00:27:02,279 --> 00:27:05,920 the state used to be respected. The polling numbers show 403 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,440 and you don't need polling numbers, or as Dylan once said, 404 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,200 you don't need a weatherman to know which way the 405 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:16,160 wind blows. Journalism is not the respected discipline that it 406 00:27:16,279 --> 00:27:19,880 once was. And you pointed out in the book, and 407 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,200 we've discussed. 408 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:21,759 Speaker 2: Why that is. 409 00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: When you have a debate like we saw between Donald 410 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,680 Trump and Kamala Harris, the two ABC moderators doing what 411 00:27:31,839 --> 00:27:36,440 they did. There was a time and again sounding like 412 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,440 the old guy journalist, but there was a time in 413 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,279 American journalism where that kind of performance would get you 414 00:27:42,319 --> 00:27:45,960 in the unemployment line. Now it gets you rewarded in 415 00:27:46,039 --> 00:27:47,920 the eyes of your colleagues. 416 00:27:49,559 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 2: Yes, well, that's the bubble effect. The only people they 417 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,279 meet are in that bubble. And what we found, I've 418 00:27:57,319 --> 00:28:00,880 short these experiences socially after all all the years that 419 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,160 I was in that profession, and I'm really not in 420 00:28:04,279 --> 00:28:08,480 it any longer, but you lose friends, you stop getting 421 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:14,079 invited to people's houses. That it has sorted itself out 422 00:28:14,279 --> 00:28:19,200 and kind of self segregated. Now the leftist worldview is dominant, 423 00:28:19,799 --> 00:28:23,279 so that means a little fewer opportunities for those of 424 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:28,319 us who are on the conservative side. But we now 425 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,559 have to live with that because we no longer have 426 00:28:30,759 --> 00:28:34,519 the same goals in mind. And I think that's really 427 00:28:34,519 --> 00:28:37,440 a sad thing. But let me just say one thing 428 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,839 about youuralism. It used to be disreputable and that was 429 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,200 the fun of it. We have an opening essay against 430 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,920 the corporate media by Lance Morrow, by dear friend who 431 00:28:49,519 --> 00:28:52,000 was at Time magazine for many, many years, I think 432 00:28:52,079 --> 00:28:55,559 may have written the most cover stories in the history 433 00:28:55,559 --> 00:28:59,799 of Time, distinguished American essays, and he talks about the 434 00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:04,279 good old days when journalism was slightly disreputable. It was raffish. 435 00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:08,160 As I said, you prize yourself on cutting a little 436 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,799 corner here and there, sweet talking somebody, whatever seductive means 437 00:29:13,839 --> 00:29:17,759 you needed to use to get the story you used. 438 00:29:17,799 --> 00:29:23,759 And then it became corporate, and it became an establishment profession. 439 00:29:24,319 --> 00:29:26,200 And it never used to be a profession. It was 440 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,680 a trade. They now talk about themselves as professionals, as 441 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,039 if they were doctors or lawyers or had to pass 442 00:29:32,119 --> 00:29:36,640 some kind of standards or be state ratified to do it. 443 00:29:37,079 --> 00:29:39,240 You don't want that in the first place. But secondly, 444 00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:43,200 they never were that. There were always tradespeople. They came 445 00:29:43,279 --> 00:29:47,920 from the tradesman class. They tended to be Ethnics from 446 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,240 the last great wave of immigration, Irish Italians, Jews. And 447 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,880 you saw their bylines in all the newspapers, all the columnists, 448 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,079 you know, famous Irish American columnists for example, or the 449 00:30:01,119 --> 00:30:04,200 great Jewish reporters on the New York Times like Meerberger 450 00:30:04,559 --> 00:30:08,839 or Abe Rosenthal for that matter. You saw this, And 451 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:14,119 now you see it's become much more diverse in a 452 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,960 bad sort of way. That is to say, it has 453 00:30:17,039 --> 00:30:22,119 split apart in terms of its appeal to the broad 454 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:28,079 swath of the country. And you get this consensus journalism now, 455 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,480 which is what everybody seems to want, but the public 456 00:30:31,559 --> 00:30:35,640 doesn't want it, and the public is rejects it constantly, 457 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,720 and yet they really don't have very many alternatives, do. 458 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:44,319 Speaker 1: They They don't, And that's the problem. As diffuse as 459 00:30:44,359 --> 00:30:49,519 everything has become in modern day journalism, the song or 460 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,960 story remains the same. And a big part of that 461 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:59,799 story that we've seen over the last couple of decades, 462 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,400 particular in this country, is the going away from what 463 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:10,400 used to be the core of value of journalism, of 464 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:15,880 reporting you had to be right. That was prized above 465 00:31:16,119 --> 00:31:21,640 everything else, prized above being first, prized, being above having 466 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:28,960 the most clicks, prized above everything that involves reporting and journalism. 467 00:31:30,039 --> 00:31:34,240 How is it that? And we've seen this, particularly over 468 00:31:34,279 --> 00:31:37,640 the last four plus years in this country. How can 469 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,279 this industry be so wrong all the time and still 470 00:31:42,759 --> 00:31:46,200 Americans are turning to it. I mean, they wouldn't exist 471 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,200 if Americans didn't go away. 472 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,759 Speaker 2: Well. Michael Crichton once referred to this as the gel 473 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,400 iphen Man effect, which is that when you're a reader 474 00:31:56,599 --> 00:32:00,440 or watch television or however you're getting your news and 475 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,000 a story comes up with which you've been directly involved, 476 00:32:04,079 --> 00:32:07,119 or it's your profession, or you really are an expert, 477 00:32:07,839 --> 00:32:11,720 and you realize the story of self complete crap, and 478 00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:13,559 then you move on to the rest of the publication 479 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,160 and you believe every word of it, so because you 480 00:32:18,279 --> 00:32:20,319 actually know what you're talking about with one of them, 481 00:32:20,599 --> 00:32:22,640 and you assume somehow that the rest of the story 482 00:32:22,759 --> 00:32:25,680 is the rest of the newspaper is more right than 483 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,759 the thing you just read about what goes on down 484 00:32:27,759 --> 00:32:31,119 with the plant where you were. That's been part of 485 00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:41,799 the problem. Americans have no real elsewhere to turn. We 486 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:46,680 do have alternate media. I was with Andrew Breitbart when 487 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,319 we started the Breitbart big sites back in twenty ten, 488 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,039 and they had a huge electrifying effect at the time. 489 00:32:56,799 --> 00:32:59,880 But the corporate media has survived. Even though the newspapers 490 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,240 out of business and the TV networks keep getting replaced 491 00:33:04,279 --> 00:33:08,599 by cable and now by streaming and by whatever technological 492 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:16,880 advancement comes up. It's still dominated by the New York Times. 493 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,480 There are two essays in the book about the New 494 00:33:20,559 --> 00:33:23,359 York Times and the Sins of the New York Times, 495 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:29,079 by two men, Ashley Rinsberg and Jay Peters Zain. Now 496 00:33:29,119 --> 00:33:32,279 I should mention that on Thursday we launched this book 497 00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:36,079 officially in London at the Reform Club, so we had 498 00:33:36,279 --> 00:33:41,720 kind of a very high end cross section of London society, 499 00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:47,440 including famous British politicians there, famous British journalists there. It 500 00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:51,200 was quite quite well attended. So there is an interest 501 00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:56,039 in and hunger for some kind of at least return 502 00:33:56,279 --> 00:34:00,960 to the however elusive standard of objects activity that we've 503 00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:02,799 now forsaken. 504 00:34:05,359 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 4: It. 505 00:34:06,519 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 2: But Walter Lippman has actually won this argument. He wrote 506 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,480 a book in nineteen twenty nine in which he argued 507 00:34:14,519 --> 00:34:18,800 that the media's opinions called public opinion, that's the name book. 508 00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:23,280 The media's opinion should be formed for it by experts 509 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,920 and government people so that everyone is on the same page. 510 00:34:27,559 --> 00:34:31,440 In a way, he was an early activist against quote 511 00:34:31,599 --> 00:34:38,920 misinformation and disinformation, and he was ignored after the Second 512 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,480 World War when you had all these hustling street kids 513 00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:44,920 go into journalism. But in a way he's won. And 514 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:50,880 that's I think rather sad because I was talking about 515 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,639 this with a friend of mine the other day, having 516 00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:58,840 been a Cold War correspondent, a veteran. The word disinformation 517 00:34:59,079 --> 00:35:03,920 is actually from the KGB. It's a Russian term for 518 00:35:04,159 --> 00:35:11,199 deliberately false information injected into the body politic via state media. Exactly. 519 00:35:11,199 --> 00:35:15,519 So when it's funny that when Nina Jankowitz or whichever 520 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:21,960 monster is now advocating for basically censorship advocates for it, 521 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,159 they're advocating for the Soviet position. Let's be very clear 522 00:35:26,199 --> 00:35:29,239 about that, because that's who these people are. They really 523 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,400 are people for whom the loss of the Soviet Union 524 00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:35,960 was a great blow to them personally, because it destroyed 525 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,840 their fantasy about the way the world works and the 526 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,679 way that the art of the universe bends towards justice 527 00:35:42,679 --> 00:35:46,679 and other bologna that you hear them constantly saying. But 528 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,079 now that they have another chance to do it through 529 00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:52,719 the European Union, which is effectively the old USSR, but 530 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,920 in Western Europe now instead of in the East, they're 531 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:01,199 going to, by God, give it their all. And you 532 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,119 will see journalists now literally arguing against freedom of speech 533 00:36:05,159 --> 00:36:08,400 and against the First Amendment. I was in London leading 534 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,880 these two panels on the subject, quoting to the British 535 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,400 John Milton and two of the British writers of the 536 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,840 eighteenth century who wrote under the name Cato, and these 537 00:36:21,159 --> 00:36:25,320 essays are the foundation of the American First Amendment. Yes, 538 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,039 and when Cato says, a man who cannot call his 539 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:33,440 tongue his zone can call nothing his own. This is 540 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,119 the key to the importance of freedom of speech, and 541 00:36:36,199 --> 00:36:41,719 yet it is being abandoned in the pursuit of what 542 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,760 I call in our books opening essay a higher loyalty. 543 00:36:47,679 --> 00:36:50,400 Just this, James Comey said he had a higher loyalty 544 00:36:50,599 --> 00:36:53,760 than the actual law of the United States of America. 545 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:59,559 Journalists have a higher loyalty beyond the First Amendment. And 546 00:37:00,119 --> 00:37:02,800 that is where they get very dangerous. 547 00:37:03,519 --> 00:37:08,119 Speaker 1: That is sad, horrifying, and yes, extremely dangerous. Because it's 548 00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:11,639 one thing when James Comey says it. It's bad enough. 549 00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:16,360 It's one thing when the Department, the Department of Homeland 550 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:21,480 Security says it. But when journalists, the people who are 551 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,360 making their bread and butter first and foremost off of 552 00:37:25,679 --> 00:37:31,840 the First Amendment, and there is the hypocritical oath, not 553 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,920 the hippocratic oath. Of course, it seems in modern day 554 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:40,840 journalism a lot. But you know, that whole idea of defender, 555 00:37:41,119 --> 00:37:48,519 actual defender of the first order of business in the 556 00:37:48,559 --> 00:37:52,079 amendments to this Constitution, the First Amendment. You know, that 557 00:37:52,679 --> 00:37:57,280 is something that reporters took pride in and I don't 558 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,440 know what's going on in their minds to day, but 559 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,480 it is not that. And so that leads us to 560 00:38:02,519 --> 00:38:07,800 our final question. It's all very Orwellian what we've experienced 561 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,719 over the last several years in this country. Where do 562 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:12,519 we go from here? 563 00:38:14,119 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 2: I think nowhere good. I don't have a happy ending 564 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:22,119 to this. I think that the newspaper industry will die 565 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:28,960 and the New York Times will be the only surviving newspaper. 566 00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:33,199 It's it's like that Sylvester Stallone movie set in the 567 00:38:33,199 --> 00:38:36,360 future where all restaurants have mercha. They're now all Taco 568 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:42,920 bell So I think it was called Resurrection Man or 569 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,280 something like man. I believe it was, no, I forgot, 570 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,639 but anyway it was. It was quite quite quite a 571 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:54,760 good futuristic science fiction movie. The Times will go on, 572 00:38:56,159 --> 00:39:01,559 the TV networks will die, which is fun, But then 573 00:39:01,599 --> 00:39:06,039 you'll just have a kind of atomized body politic that 574 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:10,920 goes and looks for whatever source seems to speak to 575 00:39:11,039 --> 00:39:17,639 its needs. So Alex Jones will have fans forever, doesn't 576 00:39:17,679 --> 00:39:22,360 matter how crazy he is. He'll have fans. On the left. 577 00:39:24,039 --> 00:39:28,480 Keith Olberman, God help us, will have fans no matter 578 00:39:28,519 --> 00:39:32,480 how crazy he is. And then you have a country 579 00:39:32,519 --> 00:39:35,760 with no center. And this is actually what the left wants. 580 00:39:37,519 --> 00:39:40,239 They've never been comfortable with the idea of a strong 581 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,559 independent United States in America. They think it needs to 582 00:39:43,559 --> 00:39:46,000 be conformist, it needs to be forced to be nice, 583 00:39:46,039 --> 00:39:51,039 it needs to force to conform, and they'll get their wish, 584 00:39:51,559 --> 00:39:54,719 but the people will be lost. The one thing I 585 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,199 did argue with Breitbart about quite a bit when we 586 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,639 started was he believed that anyone could be a journalist. 587 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,199 I did not, and I believed that certain rules and 588 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:11,840 strictures and practices were important in order to make that story. 589 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,840 As we were saying earlier, right, get it first or 590 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,480 get it right. Well, that's the balance you have to find, 591 00:40:19,519 --> 00:40:23,119 and everyone had to find it his own way. It 592 00:40:23,159 --> 00:40:25,800 gave it a kind of electricity to the job, which 593 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,559 made it fun and every day it started over again. 594 00:40:28,639 --> 00:40:30,519 And now, of course it goes twenty four to seven 595 00:40:30,679 --> 00:40:34,239 every second of the day, But that was the balance 596 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,880 that you had to do. Now it won't matter. Eventually 597 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,559 everyone will know the news thanks to I think Twitter. 598 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,239 Twitter will be the source of it. It'll be like 599 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,480 the AP minus the awful Apally it will be the source. 600 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,199 But whether it's right or not, we have no way 601 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,960 of knowing, and so we'll be lost in this fog 602 00:40:56,199 --> 00:40:59,199 of multiple sources. You know, it is that a old 603 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,920 song that one hundred and seventy two channels and that's 604 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:03,920 not that's Thrue Springsteen. 605 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, where we're going. That's exactly exactly right. You see 606 00:41:07,039 --> 00:41:09,119 it every day, and of course there are many, many 607 00:41:09,199 --> 00:41:13,760 more channels than Springsteen originally wrote that song. I believe 608 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:19,760 in the nineteen eighties, it's scary stuff. And as someone 609 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,440 who has you know, lived in the bridging the gap 610 00:41:23,519 --> 00:41:27,440 between the old journalism, so to speak, in the new, 611 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:33,400 especially with the dawn of digital journalism, it is a 612 00:41:33,639 --> 00:41:37,960 brave new world that is in many ways a cowardly, 613 00:41:38,119 --> 00:41:42,800 sniveling new world. This is a fascinating book, and again 614 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,920 I go back to a point that we raised earlier 615 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,199 in this conversation. If you think you hate corporate media enough, 616 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,880 try harder. Thanks to my guest today Michael Walsh, whose 617 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,679 new book against the Corporate Media, Forty two Ways the 618 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:06,559 Press Hates You is everywhere and it covers just about everything. 619 00:42:06,679 --> 00:42:08,559 Thanks so much for joining us today, my friend. 620 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:10,039 Speaker 2: Thank you, Matt. 621 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,559 Speaker 1: You bet you've been listening to another edition of The 622 00:42:12,559 --> 00:42:16,679 Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior correspondent at the Federalist. 623 00:42:17,039 --> 00:42:20,480 We'll be back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers 624 00:42:20,519 --> 00:42:40,800 of freedom and anxious for the Fray.