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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to the Surely Can't Be Serious podcast,

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discussing and debating the iconic and the forgotten of eighties

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and nineties pop culture with your co hosts James D.

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Graves and Jason Colbin.

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Speaker 2: Welcome everybody. We are here for part two of the

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Nevermind and ten Comparison. I am here with my buddy Jason.

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Speaker 3: What's up, Hey doo man.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing awesome wearing my flannel shirt, my knee length shorts,

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and my combat boots.

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Speaker 3: I'm about to do a stage dive right now, right

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into the middle of this podcast.

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Speaker 2: You know you talked when we did def Leppard about

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been waiting thirty five years to do this. This is

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one of those ones that I'd love to talk to

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anybody about anytime. It's been neat to do the deep

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dive into this and learn all this stuff. This was

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one of those albums growing up. I might have listened

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to this album from beginning to end more than any

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other album that I've ever listened to.

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Speaker 3: That's cool, I'm excited to get into. That was hysteria

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for me. If I had a clicker every time I

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listened to it, that would be the highest one for me,

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that and Thriller probably so.

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Speaker 2: In our research, I read that this was ranked like

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number two hundred and seven out of best albums by

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Rolling Stone or something, which I just thought to myself,

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I could probably listen to two hundred and six albums

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and go nope, nope.

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Speaker 3: Nope, Wow, this is number one for you. Huh.

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Speaker 2: It's really really good. I mean, there, you know you've

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got You've got some Pink Floyd albums that are fantastic

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from beginning to end out there, and just a very

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few others, but this is one that I just I

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love every single second of every single song on this Alum.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well that's cool, because this is gonna be interesting

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because for me, three weeks ago, I am a Pearl

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Jam Greatest Hits kind of guy. I was not familiar

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with most of these songs.

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Speaker 2: For full disclosure, I was not one of those guys

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who became a Pearl Jam devotee after listening to this album.

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I love the album. I like a lot of the

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songs on a lot of the other albums, which I

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think a lot of people will say, now this is

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the true Pearl Jam, but it just wasn't as much

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my taste as ten was, Ten was their best by

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far album, and it's obviously their biggest selling album and

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the one that brought them into the public eye. But

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it may not be their favorite album, it may not

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be their fan base's favorite album, but it's definitely my

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favorite album.

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Speaker 3: I got a quick story about my experience with ten. Okay,

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spreen break of ninety three. I go on a road

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trip with two of my roommates from college, Eric mctoyer

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Doug Huggin, both friends of the show. So we drove

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to Boston from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Holy Cow, which is

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a freaking long way for my roommates. Crappy car right,

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So all the way up and all the way back

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we're listening to ten. Well, on the way back, we

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hit the Storm of the Century, crashed, the car, got

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snowed in for three days, we missed school, we were

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trapped in Knoxville, Tennessee. But the whole way we're listening

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to ten and I finally I remember one time, I'm like,

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can we please listened to bon Jovi? Now that's where

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I It was my first real experience with ten. So Doug, Eric,

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thank you for that.

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Speaker 2: Well, I would like to give you a hard time,

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I would, But honestly, I was not an early adopter

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on these guys either. I wasn't just as in love

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with them as a lot of my friends were at

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the time. It took me a little while, But honestly,

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at that time, I had just become introduced to some

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of the classic rock, Like I had just started really

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listening to led Zeppelin, Leonard Skinner and some of those

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guys from the seventies, and I wasn't listening to anything new.

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I was just like, I don't care about new music.

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Nothing's good anymore, because I didn't realize, hey, these guys

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are putting out stuff that's not like you know, Motley

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Crue and bon Jovi. Not that I disliked bon Jovi,

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but it was a time that I was turning my

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nose up at new music, especially new music that was

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like a whole new genre of music. But then once

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I gave Ten a chance, and once I started really

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listening to it and learning it, I was like, this

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is more similar to seventies rock than anything since the seventies.

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I was just like, this isn't new these I mean,

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my McCready is playing blue scale lead on this, this

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isn't something weird and fanciful. This is like a throwback

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to what was going on in the seventies and it's good.

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Speaker 3: Well, great, Well, let's get into it, man. I can't

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wait to talk about it with you. Pearl Jam is

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born out of the shattered pieces of other bands. It's

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like they went to a garage sale of bands and

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pieced them together, mostly from a band called Mother Lovebone,

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which I had heard of but wasn't really familiar with

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their music.

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Speaker 2: There is such a storied history. There's so many things

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going on. You've got the bands Malfunction, Green River, Shadow,

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and Bad Radio that are really the precursors to this band.

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Malfunction was a band that was led by Andrew Wood

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Oh Jeff, and it broke up. Green River was a

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band that Jeff Amett and Stone Gossard were members of

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along with Mark Arm Steve Turner. Now, Jeff and Stone

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had disagreements with Steve about the sound that they should

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be going for. Steve thought that they were too much

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into the hard rock scene and so he split, and

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then Mark disagreed about whether they should be trying to

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get on a big label or whether they should stay independent.

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Mark Arms said he would rather do an independent label.

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Jeff and Stone they wanted to be big. They wanted

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to be big stars and go with a major record label.

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So that resulted in the end of Green River.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: Mark arm and Steve Turner got together after that and

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form a group mud Honey, which is one of Subpop

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which we talked about last episode, one of their biggest bands.

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And then Jeff Aiment and Stone Gossard got together with

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Andrew Wood and they formed Mother Love Bone and they

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did really well. They had an EP come out called

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Shine and then it did pretty well, and then they

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signed with PolyGram and they put together an album called Apple.

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And if you've heard any of Mother Lovebone's songs, it

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was probably off of that album Apple.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was telling you I listened to that today.

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I was not familiar with Mother Lovebone. A Mother Lovebone

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is a whole lot closer to the hair metal band

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stuff that was going on at the time. I was

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actually very surprised. It sounded a lot to me like

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a combination of La Guns, Slaughter and Faster pussy Cat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Andy Wood, he was very much into the wanting

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to be a big rock star, big scene yea. Even

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when they were playing small clubs. He would he would

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treat it like it was an arena show.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, hey, you in the back, this one's for you.

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And it looks back there there's a guy like one

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guy in the back holding a beer, like for me.

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Speaker 4: They did say that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, Andy Wood's personality was kind of out front

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of Mother Love Bone.

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Speaker 2: So yeah. Andy Wood was also the roommate of Chris Cornell,

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who was the lead singer for Soundgard.

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Speaker 3: It's a very interesting story how they're all intermingled and intermixed,

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but it's it's a very camaraderie type of thing going

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on in Seattle. It's not combative, it's more friendly.

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Speaker 2: That was something that the guy from the Ramones noted

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when he was talking to Chris Cornell. He was like,

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you guys support each other here, and that's something incredible

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because where we come from, we would do anything to

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sabotage any other competing band. So Mother Lovebone does their

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full length LP and.

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Speaker 3: Then Andy Wood passes away like four weeks before the

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release of Apple.

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Speaker 2: Apple was supposed to come out, I believe in April

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of nineteen ninety and in March of nineteen ninety he

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overdosed on Heroin, and it was obviously not only devastating

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to the band because they are no longer a band,

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but devastating because they lost a dear friend who was

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someone who was exciting and full of life, just had

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a demon.

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Speaker 3: Can you imagine you're right on the precipice of all

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your dreams coming true and then one of your best

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friends he dies and your dream dies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean they talk about coming into the hospital,

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you know, just seeing him there on live support, and

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it just be a memory that they can never escape.

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It just was overwhelming. I can't imagine. I mean, there's

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a bunch of young guys, you know, in their twenties.

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To see somebody that young lose somebody that young just

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too much. So what happens is that Stone Gossard he

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deals with the pain by going off and writing more music,

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deeper and kind of heavier music that he's writing Jeff Amott,

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Quitch playing all Together. He deals with it in a

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different way than that. And then Chris Cornell starts writing

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songs about the loss of his roommate and dear friend,

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and so Gossard is this guitarist who's writing these songs

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and he remembers his buddy named Mike McCready. They had

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known each other when they were young. Mike McCready had

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played guitar long before Stone Gossard had even played guitar,

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but they had kind of, you know, enjoyed sending each

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other rock pictures. And then he remembers, hey, Mike had

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a band. But what happened with Mike's band is they

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became pretty big. They got pretty proud of themselves. They

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thought we're going to go down to LA and become big.

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And they went down to LA and basically got told

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you're not good enough to be down here, and that

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kind of devastated them. So like eighteen months after getting

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to LA, they go back to Seattle. In about six

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months after that, they're done. They're no longer a band,

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and he also quits playing guitar, cuts his hair, goes

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back to college. I mean, he's given up the dream.

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And then he has a buddy who's like, hey, man,

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why don't you come to a concert with me. I

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think you're giving up on something that you're really good at,

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but let's go to a Stevie Rayvon concert. So he

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goes to the Stevie Rayvon concert and Stevie Ravan starts

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the song Couldn't Stand the Weather, and as he starts

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the song, these clouds roll in and it starts to

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storm on top of the audience. And then as soon

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as the song is over, the storm stops in the

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clouds part and michaemccreedy said, it was like a religious experience.

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I knew I needed to pick the guitar back up,

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great man, And so he goes. He starts playing with

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another band called Love Chili. Gossard sees him there, calls

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him up, says, hey, let's play some songs together, and

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it's actually McCready that's like, hey man, you've got some

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good stuff. We need to have a bass player. You

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need to call Jeff. And I believe his response.

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Speaker 3: Was f Jeff, Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 2: It was because you know, they just they didn't get along,

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to say, exceptionally well back then, even when they were

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another love Bone together. But he swallowed his pride and

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he called them up and they got Matt Cameron, who

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was the drummer for Sound Garden, and they put together

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a demo tape and it was five songs and basically

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the point of the demo tape was to find a

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drummer and to find a lead singer.

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Speaker 3: This is a really cool story. So they send this

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tape to their buddy Jack Irons, who had formerly been

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in Red Hot Chili Peppers. Right, and they said, Hey,

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we need a drummer, we need a vocalist. Are you

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interested in maybe drumming for us? And if so, great,

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If not, do you know any vocalists for us?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: And he had a basketball buddy down in San Diego

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that he went around with who had been in a

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couple of bands or whatever, this guy named Eddie Bedder.

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Maybe've heard of.

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Speaker 2: Him, No, you hadn't back then.

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Speaker 3: What are the odds that guys in Seattle make a

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demo tape send it to a guy who not only

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listens to it, but hands it over to one of

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the great rock vocalists.

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Speaker 2: Of all time. It's amazing. I mean, he's he's working

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like security in a petroleum factory. I mean, it's just

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it's crazy. It is crazy. Eddie Vedder goes out surfing

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one night. He's got these tunes in his head and

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he kind of comes up with the lyrics as he's surfing.

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He basically comes back in sits down on the beach,

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and with sand still on his feet, writes the lyrics

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to what will become Once, what will become alive, and

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what will become Footsteps, which he calls the Mama Son

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Trilogy because it's kind of got this mini opera type

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of feel where you have the mom and a son

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who have this weird, incestuous relationship which then leads the

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son to become crazy and become a serial killer, and

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then like Footsteps, is the final act of the trilogy

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that you know, he's in prison and awaiting.

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Speaker 3: Execution, so he records his lyrics on top of the demo,

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sends it back to these guys. They listen to it.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to throw this in there because I

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don't think you're going to all of our listeners listen up.

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I don't think anybody else is going to give you

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this piece of information that I'm about to lay down

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to you. So if you look at the tape that

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he sent back, I used to do this when I

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was recording things, and you know, living by myself, I

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had no money either, and buying tapes to record on

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can be expensive. So what you can do is you

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can take a tape that's a commercially made tape and

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if you just stick little pieces of paper in the

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top holes, you can record on it again. And so

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that's what you would do. And so I looked at

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this tape and I was like, holy crap, this is

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an actual tape of somebodies that he has taken and

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recorded on. Eddie Vedder recorded on this tape and then

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he used white out to wipe out everything except for

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one song title. One song title was a friend in California.

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You have no idea who that the recognized. I'm wondering

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if anybody who's listening right now has any idea what

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who sang a friend from California? Handwritten above that it

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says to Jeff and Stone. Then down at the bottom

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he also uses white out to wipe out all of

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the letters of the bottom part, and it's just the

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letters that spell out Eddie. So I looked at this

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and I was like, I've got to figure out what

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his tape is. It was Merle Haggard Greatest Hits of

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the eighties. That was the tape that he decided to record.

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Speaker 3: Over my gosh, Yeah, that is incredible. That's kind of

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go on your Triviune card this week.

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Speaker 2: Cards for sure.

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Speaker 3: That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah, that's awesome. And he wrote

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his telephone number on there as well. I saw that

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when they showed it to him. I actually watched a

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video where the guy, the interviewer, he handed that tape

284
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to Eddie Vedder and he's like, oh, check it out,

285
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it's my telephone number. So when he sends it back

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to Stone, they listen to it and they're like, not

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only can he sing, but he can write lyrics. Yeah,

288
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I mean he's like a poet, right, Yeah. So he

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impressed him enough for them to fly him up to

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Seattle to audition YEP.

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Speaker 2: And as he's going up, he writes the lyrics to

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two more songs. It was a five song deal. Writes

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the lyrics to two more songs. So he's got all

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of them written. And he arrives up there and they're

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in the middle of starting to do this Temple of

296
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the Dog thing with Chris Cornell. Mike McCready comes in

297
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and I'm just going to say this right now. Mike

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McCready is maybe one of the most underappreciated guitarists that

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I can think of. He is a rock god who

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deserves more credit than he gets. He deserves to be

301
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up there with Hendrix and Stevie ray Vaughn and Eddie

302
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Van Halen. I mean, he is phenomenal. And so Chris Cornell,

303
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you know, the grunge scene in the alternative scene was

304
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all against you know, doing these big, long guitar solos.

305
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You know, we talked about Nirvana. You don't the guitar

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solo is just a melody of the words, you know.

307
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But Chris Cornell was just kind of like, f all

308
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of you guys, I'm going to put a five minute

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guitar solo on the first song on this album. What

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do you think about that? And so he said he

311
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almost had to yell at Mike McCready because he was like,

312
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you play guitar so freaking good. You're the one guy

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who I want to play a five minute guitar solo

314
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on my first eleven minute long song. It's solid. I mean,

315
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it's not. You can see his progression as time goes on.

316
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You know, it's not his best work, but man, it's

317
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still really good.

318
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Speaker 1: You know.

319
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Speaker 3: Chris Cornell was in a position to really help out

320
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the band too, when he was doing this Temple of

321
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the Dog thing and they're doing Hunger Strike. They were like,

322
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you know, hey, we've got a new singer, and he's like, well,

323
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we'll bring him on board, man, let's get him going

324
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and he can sing with me and we can go.

325
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And so that was actually the first time that Eddie

326
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Vedder ever heard himself on an actual wreck.

327
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Speaker 2: Chris Cornell was basically like, I kind of have this

328
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idea for how I want the other vocal part to

329
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go in this, and he said and then suddenly Eddie

330
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just started singing it, and it was as if he

331
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already knew what I had had planned, like he had

332
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just knew it. And Hunger Strike is, you know, the

333
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,480
one the major duet that they do on that one now,

334
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:27,759
but I love that song so good. So, you know,

335
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Eddie Vetterer arrives, they're they're introducing people, but when they

336
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first when he first arrives, he's like, I don't want

337
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to do anything. I want to go straight to the rehearsal.

338
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I don't want to see the town, I want to

339
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do any touristy stuff. I want to go and I

340
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want to start playing right away. And for the next

341
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five days they rehearse, and on day number six they

342
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do their first show.

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Speaker 3: I think it's awesome. I believe his term was I'm

344
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not here to frunt.

345
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Speaker 2: If you listen to the songs, especially alive from that

346
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demo tape that he had sent back, I mean, there's

347
00:17:02,519 --> 00:17:05,440
not a whole lot different honestly, from the way that

348
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he originally did the lyrics and the way they originally

349
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played it to what the song is on the final

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ten album.

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Speaker 3: We talked about their name, I'm ready tribute to the name.

352
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Speaker 2: Well, okay, so we know that they started playing sessions,

353
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they started playing shows right off the bat. They started

354
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opening for Alison Chains. But the name under Allison Chains

355
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was not.

356
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Speaker 3: Pearl Jam That's right. It wasn't. It was Mookie Blaylock.

357
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So if you're a basketball fan, especially a nineties basketball fan,

358
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then you know who this guy is. Yeah, if you

359
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,200
were born and raised in Oklahoma, like I was, right,

360
00:17:42,279 --> 00:17:44,640
you recognize this guy from college because he played at

361
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,240
Miama Mater, the University of Oklahoma. He truly is one

362
00:17:48,279 --> 00:17:50,920
of the great defensive players of all time led Leagan

363
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Steel's that type of thing, and in college, man, he'd

364
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press it all the way up the court. And these

365
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,440
guys were big basketball fans. And they were big fans

366
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of Mookie Blaylock, who at the time I know he

367
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:01,640
played for the Atlanta Hawks.

368
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Speaker 2: New Jersey Nets was who he was playing for at

369
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the time if they adopted his name.

370
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Speaker 3: So anyway, the original name for the band Mookie Blaylock.

371
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Speaker 2: They got together. They started rehearsing in the fall of

372
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nineteen ninety. Eddie moves up in like November, they start

373
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doing all of the shows and by March they start

374
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doing their demo recordings at the London Bridge Studio there

375
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,920
in Seattle. They signed with a major record label. And

376
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,160
guess what, you can't be Mookie Blaylock.

377
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Speaker 3: Any First of all, Mookie Blaylock doesn't know who five

378
00:18:35,559 --> 00:18:37,960
scrubs from Seattle are at right.

379
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, is a security guard. The other guy's working at

380
00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:45,160
a coffee shop, and another guy used to work at

381
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,559
a pizza place. Oh, here's an interesting bit of trivia

382
00:18:49,559 --> 00:18:52,160
as well. The guy that worked with the pizza place

383
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,799
was Mike McCready. He worked at pizza place with the

384
00:18:54,839 --> 00:18:58,599
guy named Pete Druge, who has a song that you

385
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,440
may or may not recognize. If you don't love me,

386
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,240
I'll kill myself And it's from the movie.

387
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:06,400
Speaker 3: That's from Dubbin Dumber.

388
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:14,559
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, Mike McCready and the guy who sang

389
00:19:14,599 --> 00:19:16,440
that song used to work in the same pizza shop together.

390
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,920
Speaker 3: Oh man, that is incredible. What a great nugget that is.

391
00:19:20,039 --> 00:19:22,640
I am a huge Dubbin Dumber fan, which we're going

392
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,799
to cover one of these days. So anyway, the record

393
00:19:26,839 --> 00:19:28,920
company says, Okay, you guys can't be Mookie Blay like,

394
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,680
you got to pick something else, right, So they do

395
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:37,200
eventually form the name Pearl Jam right, right. And so

396
00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,039
the way they came up with this, I thought this

397
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,240
was at least interesting, although a little anti climactic. They

398
00:19:43,319 --> 00:19:46,519
kind of liked the name Pearl. It was Eddie Vedder's

399
00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:50,279
great grandmother's name, and Jeff just kind of thought, Okay,

400
00:19:50,279 --> 00:19:53,079
that's kind of a cool word. Yeah, And then they

401
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,000
went to a Neil Young concert where he would just

402
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,960
play these extra long, extended versions of these songs.

403
00:19:58,039 --> 00:20:02,400
Speaker 2: Pearl Jam right, j Yeah, It's it's not as exciting

404
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,119
as what you would hope it would be. And so

405
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,759
what Eddie Vedder did right after they became famous was

406
00:20:07,759 --> 00:20:09,079
to lie about where it came from.

407
00:20:09,519 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 3: I heard this story too, Yeah, is.

408
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,559
Speaker 2: He's like, no, I had a great grandmother named Pearl

409
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,960
and she was married to a Native American and she

410
00:20:16,079 --> 00:20:18,799
used to make this payote Lace jam and they would

411
00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:21,920
get you high and stuff. But yeah, later on he's like, no,

412
00:20:22,039 --> 00:20:23,119
that was BS.

413
00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:23,359
Speaker 4: That was a lie.

414
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, So then they become Pearl Jam. Their

415
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,559
first album is going to be called ten.

416
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,119
Speaker 2: Which is eleven songs.

417
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 3: Why it's called ten because that's Mookie Blaylec's number.

418
00:20:34,799 --> 00:20:36,400
Speaker 2: Oh, how was a set up?

419
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,160
Speaker 3: By the way, I totally said you, thank you, thank

420
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,880
you for me right there. Appreciate that.

421
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,039
Speaker 2: We've talked before with Van Halen and with def Leppard

422
00:20:44,079 --> 00:20:46,720
about MTV being in, you know, the right place at

423
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,960
the right time for these bands. What interestingly happens for

424
00:20:50,079 --> 00:20:53,039
this one is that independent record label that I talked

425
00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:56,079
about last episode called sub Pop. There's a neat little

426
00:20:56,079 --> 00:20:58,839
thing that Subpop does. The first interesting thing they figure

427
00:20:58,839 --> 00:21:01,519
out is if if they don't make as many records,

428
00:21:01,519 --> 00:21:04,680
they created a demand because people were like, oh, you

429
00:21:04,759 --> 00:21:06,759
can't get these because they only made you know whatever,

430
00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:08,720
five hundred of them or whatever. So they do that

431
00:21:08,759 --> 00:21:11,920
little trick to increase the value of their records. And

432
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,200
then the other trick that they learned is they realized

433
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,799
that all music movements started with a regional base. You know,

434
00:21:19,839 --> 00:21:22,640
you look at Motown and its base was Detroit. So

435
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,519
they thought, okay, well we're going to make Seattle. We're

436
00:21:25,559 --> 00:21:27,839
going to make that region our regional base for this

437
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,279
big music movement. And they're a large part of why

438
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,759
grunge and why alternative music from Seattle became as big

439
00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:37,640
as it did because they had this crazy idea that

440
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,000
they engaged in in March of nineteen eighty nine. And

441
00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:43,279
these are like a small time don't know what they're doing,

442
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,000
just trying to get their feed under them guys. But

443
00:21:46,079 --> 00:21:51,640
they said, let's get the most important reporter from Melody

444
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,599
Maker over in Europe to come over here. Will fly

445
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,440
them over, will act like we're big time. We'll show

446
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,799
them the Seattle scene and the Seattle sound and hopefully

447
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,759
he'll write a good article about it. Well that's exactly

448
00:22:03,799 --> 00:22:06,880
what happens, and that is exactly what he does, and

449
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,319
all of a sudden, everyone becomes obsessed with the Seattle sound.

450
00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:15,000
And that was the impetus behind people latching on it.

451
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,759
You know, as with all things, it takes a little

452
00:22:17,759 --> 00:22:21,000
wall for these things to happen. But the fascination with

453
00:22:21,079 --> 00:22:23,759
Seattle and kind of the grunge sound and the grunge

454
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,519
look became a thing largely because of subpop and then

455
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,160
I mean, quite frankly, Pearl Jam enjoyed the success on

456
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,160
ten that it did part because of the Seattle sound

457
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,359
trick and then also because of Nirvana.

458
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,279
Speaker 3: For people who enjoy pop culture like you and I do. Yeah,

459
00:22:40,319 --> 00:22:44,240
it's fascinating to see when the lit match and the

460
00:22:44,279 --> 00:22:45,359
gasoline meet.

461
00:22:45,599 --> 00:22:49,039
Speaker 2: And what's interesting with this one is how quickly the

462
00:22:49,079 --> 00:22:52,839
word grunge became a dirty word to all of these guys.

463
00:22:54,240 --> 00:23:00,319
Like every rebellion against the establishment begins with someone saying, hey,

464
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:01,880
you know, we don't want to we don't want to

465
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,599
do what the man is wanting us to do. We're

466
00:23:03,599 --> 00:23:05,720
going to do our own thing. Then it starts to

467
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,039
gain traction, people join in, it becomes like a movement,

468
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,200
and then the establishment sees it and it's like, oh, hey,

469
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,119
we can market this and we can pay its band

470
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,680
leaders and we'll we'll make it our own, and then

471
00:23:17,759 --> 00:23:21,440
the movement becomes the new establishment. And that's what happened

472
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,559
with rock and roll in the early eighties. What happened

473
00:23:23,599 --> 00:23:25,799
with heavy metal in the mid to late eighties, and

474
00:23:25,839 --> 00:23:28,720
that's what happens now with the grunge music and the

475
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,039
Seattle scene is it's the rebellion against heavy metal, and

476
00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:36,559
then it turns into the new heavy metal, where you know,

477
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:41,319
then Versace is selling grunge style in magazines and stuff,

478
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:51,680
and so it quickly became the establishment. Okay, right, So

479
00:23:51,799 --> 00:23:55,839
just a few musical influences. Eddie likes The Who and

480
00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,000
Michael Jackson and The Jackson Five, Mike McCready likes funk

481
00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:05,559
Adelic and def Leppard, and Van Halen right Stone likes Rap.

482
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,599
All of them were into Ice Cube at the time

483
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:18,519
that they that he was becoming the Kirk Cobain said

484
00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:21,240
some kind of negative things about them when they first

485
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,680
came out, like He's like, they're just hard rock, They're

486
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,519
just another hard rock band wearing our clothes, that they're

487
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:30,759
not really a true alternative, a true grunge band, and

488
00:24:30,839 --> 00:24:33,279
it kind of was upsetting to Eddie, and Eddie gave

489
00:24:33,319 --> 00:24:36,480
him a call and Kirk Cobain kind of changed his

490
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,240
tune a little bit and said, I'm not going to

491
00:24:38,319 --> 00:24:40,680
say anything bad about him. I don't like their music

492
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,160
and I never have, But I like Eddie Vetter. He's

493
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,319
a nice guy, and so I'm not going to say

494
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:46,559
ugly stuff about them anymore.

495
00:24:46,599 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 3: I do think that's interesting. I don't think Kurt Cobain

496
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,799
is wrong. I mean, I think that Pearl Jam is

497
00:24:51,839 --> 00:24:54,519
a hard rock band with grunge elements, and I think

498
00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:56,880
that Nirvana is kind of a punk band with pop

499
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,759
and grunge elements. And they're from the same area, so

500
00:24:59,759 --> 00:25:03,759
they're are similarities, but they're from there. They formed different trees, you.

501
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,519
Speaker 2: Know, sure. And I mean if you if you listen

502
00:25:05,559 --> 00:25:07,559
to any of the bands out of Seattle, they all

503
00:25:07,599 --> 00:25:10,279
have kind of a different sound. It is not as

504
00:25:10,319 --> 00:25:12,200
though they're all playing the same type of music.

505
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 3: Well, I did hear Cameron Crow say that one of

506
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,759
the reasons why they had formed this kind of Seattle

507
00:25:16,839 --> 00:25:20,240
sound was that because of the weather, they had a

508
00:25:20,279 --> 00:25:23,039
lot of time to play. Because they're indoors, they had

509
00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:24,440
a lot of time to play, and they had a

510
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,599
lot of time to listen to music. And so because

511
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,799
of the just the weather situation, that's just kind of

512
00:25:28,839 --> 00:25:29,559
what it lends itself to.

513
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,559
Speaker 2: Well, certainly the sound of the music is is different.

514
00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:34,319
I mean, the sound of the music of Nirvana and

515
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,720
the sound of the music of Pearl Jam is very distinct.

516
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,480
You would not confuse them. But just like Metallica brought

517
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:46,079
brains to heavy metal, Pearl Jam brought relevance and depth

518
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,319
and you know, meaning to hard rock which had been

519
00:25:49,599 --> 00:25:54,559
missing for a while. You know, they were doing hard rock,

520
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,519
but the lyrics were about the loneliness and the confusion

521
00:25:57,559 --> 00:26:01,200
of youth, and I think that's why they are appropriately

522
00:26:01,759 --> 00:26:05,920
in with this group of new sound, the revolution that

523
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:12,359
was occurring. We didn't talk about the drummers, honestly, it's

524
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,279
kind of confusing.

525
00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:16,759
Speaker 3: It is confusing.

526
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,599
Speaker 2: They went through like three different drummers, but basically Dave

527
00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:23,680
Krusen was the one who was on the album ten

528
00:26:24,079 --> 00:26:26,559
and he's the one that played for them. He eventually

529
00:26:26,599 --> 00:26:29,200
went into rehab almost right after the album was finished,

530
00:26:29,519 --> 00:26:32,400
and so he was replaced by Matt Chamberlain, who had

531
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,000
been the drummer for Edie Burkel and the New Bohemians,

532
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,319
and then he got an opportunity to be on Saturday

533
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,640
Night Live with Saturday Night Live Band, so like, sorry, guys,

534
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,240
I'm not going to keep drumming for you, and that

535
00:26:43,799 --> 00:26:46,839
he recommended David Brusies to be the drummer, and he

536
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,759
was this guy out of Texas and it's really interesting.

537
00:26:49,799 --> 00:26:52,920
And I'll jump ahead a little bit, but in one

538
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,480
of the videos, Mike Chamberlain is the one playing the drums,

539
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,799
and Davi of Bruzies is one of the guys out

540
00:26:58,799 --> 00:27:02,640
in the crowd because he's just arrive from Austin, tex

541
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,759
The album actually starts off with the sounds of a

542
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,359
hidden track. The hidden track is called Master Slave, and

543
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,400
so if you listen to the beginning of the album

544
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,240
and the end of the album, it's the same tune,

545
00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:23,920
but it's just a real brief, you know, kind of

546
00:27:24,079 --> 00:27:28,799
taste of Master and Slave, and then we open with Once.

547
00:27:41,039 --> 00:27:44,839
Speaker 3: The hidden track on ten Yeah is not nearly as

548
00:27:44,839 --> 00:27:47,359
offensive as the hidden track on the Nirvana album.

549
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,039
Speaker 2: The hidden track on Tin is good, and.

550
00:27:50,839 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 3: It's just kind of like it's like a cracker. It's

551
00:27:53,319 --> 00:27:56,559
like there's not really much substances. It's just kind of

552
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,799
little drums and that's it. It's not a nail being

553
00:27:59,839 --> 00:28:00,720
d into your brain.

554
00:28:00,839 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 2: It's a cool sound. It's kind of gets you in

555
00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:05,880
a mood and it's definitely not something that when the

556
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,640
guy comes in to mix the CD and nobody else

557
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,519
is there. He thinks this is a mistake, This shouldn't

558
00:28:11,519 --> 00:28:11,960
be in here.

559
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,519
Speaker 3: This is cur crap, this is garbage. We need to

560
00:28:14,519 --> 00:28:27,640
throw it away right.

561
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 2: Once. The first song on the album was originally called

562
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,799
a Jitian Crave, and that was just what Stone Gossard

563
00:28:32,799 --> 00:28:34,960
had called it whenever he sent the demo tape. But

564
00:28:35,039 --> 00:28:38,240
it is part of that Mama Son mini opera that

565
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:39,559
that Eddie Vedder had written.

566
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 3: This song was on the demo tape, the Stone Gossard

567
00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:44,880
demos ninety one, right right, and that Eddie Vedder got

568
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,359
ahold of okay yes.

569
00:28:46,119 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: And so when they did the single release for Live,

570
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,960
this song was on the B side for that one,

571
00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:54,119
you know, and Alive, as I said before, was also

572
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,640
part of that Mama Son mini opera. But this one

573
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,680
is the one that is the story of the descent

574
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,839
into madness where he ultimately becomes a serial killer, you know,

575
00:29:06,359 --> 00:29:08,440
backseat lever on the side of the road, got a

576
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,200
bomb in my temple and it's going to explode. They

577
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,319
did this one, as with many of them, on their

578
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,960
performance in October twenty second of ninety that very I

579
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,039
don't remember. It's their first or second performance, but.

580
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: Right right off the bat they're performing this. This is

581
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,119
kind of a hard rocker song. This is I mean,

582
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,680
it's a pound your fist. The crowd is kind of

583
00:29:26,039 --> 00:29:27,599
dropping their head and let's go right.

584
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's angry, It's angry.

585
00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:32,359
Speaker 3: This song received some radio play that I was familiar

586
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:33,920
with this song when let me start this.

587
00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: The next one we have is even Flow.

588
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:46,799
Speaker 3: The Man.

589
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,559
Speaker 2: What a freaking great song. This is.

590
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 3: The core.

591
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: I'm afraid that I'm just gonna gush over every single

592
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,119
one of these. Pull it back just a.

593
00:30:04,039 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 3: Little bit, a right, That's the way I felt when

594
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:06,680
he did Hysteria.

595
00:30:06,759 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 2: So yeah, right, So this one is the picture of

596
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,680
a homeless man, and I mean that's evident from the lyrics.

597
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,319
You know that even Flow is this guy with problems,

598
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,279
mental problems probably, and thoughts that he has to drive

599
00:30:22,319 --> 00:30:26,279
away and chase away, and an insane look whenever he smiles.

600
00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:29,039
And it turns out he's based on an actual guy,

601
00:30:29,119 --> 00:30:32,359
a Vietnam vet that Eddie Vedder met, whose name was

602
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,519
also Eddie, who ended up passing away.

603
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,359
Speaker 3: The cool thing to me. In two thousand and eight,

604
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,799
Eddie Vedder said this song was written underneath the Space Needle.

605
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:41,079
Speaker 2: Yeah.

606
00:30:41,079 --> 00:30:43,079
Speaker 3: I mean there's three things I know about Seattle. I

607
00:30:43,119 --> 00:30:45,400
know the Seahawks, I know the Mariners, and I know

608
00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:48,519
you know Fraser and the Space Needle. That's it, right,

609
00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:52,359
I guess that's four things. But this song took forever

610
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:53,039
to get it right.

611
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

612
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 3: They played it like fifty sixty seventy times and some

613
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,119
members of the band are still dissatisfied to this day.

614
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,559
Speaker 2: He did a couple of different versions of it ultimately,

615
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,799
and one of them they recorded with the drummer David Bruisy,

616
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,640
and that's the one that appears on the Singles soundtrack.

617
00:31:10,079 --> 00:31:13,039
So a couple of nights ago I watched Singles. It's

618
00:31:13,079 --> 00:31:17,480
fascinating because Cameron Crowe had heard about the death of

619
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,839
Andy Wood. He had this kind of storyline idea and

620
00:31:21,079 --> 00:31:24,920
decided to go up to Seattle and hang with these bands,

621
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:28,559
and he ends up casting. I mean, you've got Alison

622
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,799
Chains performing on stage. You've got Chris Cornell standing next

623
00:31:32,799 --> 00:31:35,240
to Matt Dillon as he's cranking up the volume on

624
00:31:35,279 --> 00:31:38,319
his girlfriend's speakers that he's just installed, and then all

625
00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:41,240
the windows blow out and Chris Cornell is just watching

626
00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:43,160
it just kind of nod in his head, like yeah.

627
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,160
And then Matt Dillon is the lead singer for this

628
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:53,799
band called Citizen Dick whose major song has touched me

629
00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:59,960
on Dick, but his band is Eddie Vedder. Stone Gossard,

630
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:02,920
you have am. I mean it's the Yes, there's a

631
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,440
couple of different scenes that they're in. But it's fascinating

632
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,119
because they are making this movie at the same time

633
00:32:09,119 --> 00:32:11,680
that these guys are putting this album together. Like none

634
00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:14,519
of them are famous. Chris Cornell is Seattle famous and

635
00:32:14,559 --> 00:32:18,039
Alison Chains is Seattle famous. But the guys that they

636
00:32:18,079 --> 00:32:21,920
got to play, the members of Matt Dylan's band, they

637
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,039
were no ones at the time.

638
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: Other than that he was able backed by Stone and

639
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:26,920
Jeff Drummerady Better.

640
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:27,559
Speaker 3: I mean, that's good.

641
00:32:28,079 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: That's a good meat.

642
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 4: A compliment for us, is a compliment for you.

643
00:32:33,759 --> 00:32:37,359
Speaker 3: Even Flow is the second single released. It was released

644
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,039
April sixth, nineteen ninety two. Yeah, so this is released

645
00:32:41,039 --> 00:32:43,960
in ninety two and it's the fifth most played song

646
00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:47,720
on the radio. You're in the twenty tens. Yeah, in

647
00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:49,079
twenty tens.

648
00:32:49,079 --> 00:32:52,119
Speaker 2: Because every single one of these songs have staying power.

649
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,000
This one just to talk musically, Stone Gossard us an

650
00:32:55,119 --> 00:32:58,440
open D tuning, and then Mike McCready says, yeah, I

651
00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:01,160
just kind of ripped off Stevie ray Vaughan.

652
00:33:01,359 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 3: This sounds very different than anything rock that I had

653
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,839
been hearing at the time. But the vocalizations kind of

654
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,759
staccato is it's different. It's very different. Yeah, but I

655
00:33:11,759 --> 00:33:14,880
mean super great. I mean this is a song that

656
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:18,240
I was a late adopter to but ultimately came to love.

657
00:33:18,519 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: Did you have a little bit of trouble learning to

658
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:21,160
speak any better?

659
00:33:21,279 --> 00:33:22,799
Speaker 3: Oh? I still don't know what the heck he's saying.

660
00:33:24,119 --> 00:33:26,759
Speaker 2: I mean, the worst, the worst and most famous of

661
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,880
the unintelligible l Better lyrics. It comes from Yellow Leadbetter.

662
00:33:32,759 --> 00:33:34,079
To this day, I don't I don't know that I

663
00:33:34,119 --> 00:33:36,519
know what one single line of that song is as

664
00:33:36,519 --> 00:33:39,599
good as it is. But Kim Thale, the guy who's

665
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,200
the guitar player for Sound Garden, I mean, you get

666
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:43,640
to think about what the song is about, right, It's

667
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,599
about It's about homelessness. And you know this guy with

668
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,920
a concrete pillow, and he when he went and heard

669
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,960
them live, he thought it was called Evening Flow. It

670
00:33:54,079 --> 00:33:56,599
was like, you know, like how everyone's like in the

671
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,599
evening it's just kind of a flow.

672
00:33:58,319 --> 00:34:03,079
Speaker 3: And like a good time. That's awesome.

673
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,839
Speaker 2: So the video on this one, they had recorded this

674
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,920
video where the guy came in and he recorded all

675
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,480
these zoo scenes of animals and the band was kind

676
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,159
of air playing their instruments on the edge of this cliff.

677
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,920
But once they got the footage, they're like, well, this

678
00:34:21,079 --> 00:34:24,159
was a colossal waste of time and money. And so

679
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,719
what happened was they still had the video, but it

680
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,239
was done by this guy named Josh Taft who was

681
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,960
just filming as a friend. He's a friend of Stone Gossarts.

682
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,960
He had directed Alive and later on directed Oceans, but

683
00:34:36,119 --> 00:34:39,840
he was there just filming this footage. But on the

684
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,440
full length video of this, which you didn't typically see

685
00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:46,079
on MTV, Eddie Vetterer starts the video by going, this

686
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:49,639
is not a TV studio, Josh urn these lights out.

687
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,519
It's an effing rock concert.

688
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 3: I watched this video today and I'm like, this can't

689
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,199
be the official video. He's yelling at people.

690
00:34:59,119 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, your head aversion to videos at all. Really, it's

691
00:35:03,519 --> 00:35:06,880
interesting on the album you don't hear the end piece

692
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,679
on this. They released this in the UK first, but

693
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,480
it says, I died. I died and you just stood there.

694
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,000
I died and you watched I died and you walked

695
00:35:17,039 --> 00:35:20,159
by and said, no, I'm dead. I was like, wow,

696
00:35:20,199 --> 00:35:21,519
how did I never hear that before?

697
00:35:21,519 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 5: Once?

698
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,159
Speaker 2: Because it's not on the album, but it is in

699
00:35:23,199 --> 00:35:23,599
the video.

700
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,639
Speaker 3: So third track on the album is called Alive.

701
00:35:34,519 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 2: I'm glad you're head banging right now? Is it really appropriate?

702
00:35:41,079 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 3: Oh?

703
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:41,559
Speaker 1: Man?

704
00:35:41,639 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 3: This song is so good man. This was their first single,

705
00:35:44,079 --> 00:35:46,039
released July seventh, ninety one.

706
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:48,559
Speaker 4: It is so good.

707
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I knew that you would love this song

708
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,960
because this song has the most mass appeal. This is

709
00:35:56,039 --> 00:36:06,880
the most radio friendly one of the bunch for sure.

710
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,000
All Right, So this song starts off with son. She says,

711
00:36:15,039 --> 00:36:17,360
have I got a little story for you. What you

712
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,480
thought was your daddy was nothing, But while you were

713
00:36:20,519 --> 00:36:24,199
sitting home alone at age thirteen, your real daddy was dying.

714
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,559
So this is an actual event that occurred in Eddie

715
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:30,920
Vedder's life. He okay, he had a conversation with his

716
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,039
mom where he finds out that the man that he

717
00:36:33,079 --> 00:36:36,199
thought was his dad his entire life, is not his dad.

718
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,639
And you know this. Of course, they didn't get along

719
00:36:38,679 --> 00:36:41,280
particularly well, so this is a big realization for him.

720
00:36:41,599 --> 00:36:44,239
And then he finds out that his real dad. Not

721
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,360
only did he not know that it was his real dad,

722
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,320
but he knew the guy like he was just like

723
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,199
somebody he thought was a family friend. And then he

724
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,079
finds out not only hey, this guy was my dad,

725
00:36:54,119 --> 00:36:56,440
but he died a few years ago, so he has

726
00:36:56,559 --> 00:37:00,719
never had that opportunity to bond with him, and his

727
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,039
mom kind of treats it like it's no big deal,

728
00:37:03,079 --> 00:37:06,559
which is, you know, the underlying emotion behind this whole

729
00:37:06,559 --> 00:37:08,159
song is pretty intense.

730
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:08,519
Speaker 5: Man.

731
00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:21,159
Speaker 3: That's a sad story. So this song was originally recorded

732
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,960
January in nineteen ninety one as a part of a

733
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,239
demo session, yeah, which during the recording of ten, they

734
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,320
couldn't recreate the intensity of that original demo, so they

735
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,599
went back and took that demo and kind of corrected

736
00:37:34,639 --> 00:37:36,760
it and improved it, and that's what you got.

737
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 2: This one was one that Stone Gossard had actually written

738
00:37:40,079 --> 00:37:43,639
while he was still with Mother Lovebone and apparently Andy

739
00:37:43,679 --> 00:37:46,519
Wood saying some sort of lyrics to it. It was

740
00:37:46,599 --> 00:37:48,599
when they sent out the demo tape. This was the

741
00:37:48,599 --> 00:37:52,360
one that he called Dollar Short and Mike McCready. When

742
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,000
they play this one live, we'll go into the Black

743
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,039
Sabbath Warpigs solo at the end of this one.

744
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,039
Speaker 3: Speaking of that solo, yeah, Mike McCready said that he

745
00:38:03,159 --> 00:38:06,800
based this on Ace Freely's solo in the Kiss.

746
00:38:06,519 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 2: Song She Yes, which he said was based on the

747
00:38:11,079 --> 00:38:14,280
Doors song five to one. I stole it from Kiss,

748
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,800
but they stole it from the Doors. This is the video,

749
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,000
by the way, that you have the live footage on

750
00:38:21,199 --> 00:38:25,000
where you see Chamberlain drumming and David Bruzi's in the audience.

751
00:38:25,079 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 3: It's a neat little nugget right there. Okay, So song

752
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,719
number four on the album, the song is called why Go.

753
00:38:40,079 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 2: Again? I love it. It kicks butt. Now. This is

754
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,159
one that it didn't get as much radio play as

755
00:38:45,199 --> 00:38:46,599
some of the other songs on it. So what did

756
00:38:46,639 --> 00:38:47,920
you think about it when you heard it first?

757
00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:50,679
Speaker 3: Well, I'd like it. It's kind of a head bobber. It's

758
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,360
a definitely probably one of those songs that you hear

759
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,519
in concert and everybody's like, yeah, freaking awesome. But when

760
00:38:56,519 --> 00:38:58,119
I listened to the album, I would say this is

761
00:38:58,159 --> 00:39:00,360
definitely the lower third of the album.

762
00:39:00,679 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 2: Honestly, I put all of these songs almost at a

763
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,639
tie for perfect, but this one is I just like

764
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,039
the imagery that he does with this one. I mean,

765
00:39:09,079 --> 00:39:12,199
the song begins with she scratches a letter into a

766
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,920
wall made of stone. Maybe someday another child won't feel

767
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,480
as alone. And it's about this girl who's you know,

768
00:39:19,639 --> 00:39:22,800
struggling in this mental facility of some kind you can

769
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,880
tell from the lyrics of the song. And then, as

770
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,639
it turns out, this was actually some real girl that

771
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,719
Eddie Vedder had read about, like thirteen years old. Her

772
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,039
parents catch her smoking pot and send her to a

773
00:39:36,119 --> 00:39:40,400
hospital over smoking pot, and she refuses to say that

774
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,480
she's got anything wrong with her, so ends up staying

775
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,280
two years in the hospital because the doctors you know,

776
00:39:46,719 --> 00:40:00,000
want to argue that she's crazy. And in the liner note,

777
00:40:00,519 --> 00:40:03,360
he dedicates the song to a girl named Heather. So

778
00:40:03,559 --> 00:40:06,440
if anybody's got more information on who Heather is out there,

779
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,079
sorry about your situation. Thank you for inspiring an awesome song.

780
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,119
Speaker 3: Now, then this is a song that I'm very familiar

781
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:18,719
with that I want to get into. This song is

782
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:19,320
called Black.

783
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 2: Let's just soak an this for a minute.

784
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 3: Let's just pause and appreciate the beauty.

785
00:40:33,599 --> 00:40:49,599
Speaker 4: Of this song. Jeez an please word bird.

786
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 2: Boo, Pass her.

787
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 3: Body even Black was voted the ninth best ballad of

788
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:01,920
all time by the readers of burling Stone. You know

789
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,280
this song, even though I'm familiar with it from the radio.

790
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:05,639
It wasn't released as a single.

791
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, the record label urged the band to release this

792
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,119
song as a single, but they refused it. They said, no,

793
00:41:11,199 --> 00:41:13,280
we will not release this as a single. And Eddie

794
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,159
Vedder went so far as to call radio stations to go, hey,

795
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,079
did the record label send you a single of this?

796
00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:21,920
Because I told them not to. They better not be

797
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,519
doing that. But the record label didn't. The radio stations

798
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:28,559
just chose to play it anyway because they appreciated how

799
00:41:28,559 --> 00:41:32,400
awesome it was. But Eddie Vedder said, some songs just

800
00:41:32,559 --> 00:41:35,519
aren't meant to be between hit number two and hit

801
00:41:35,599 --> 00:41:39,559
number three. It was too emotional, It was too meaningful

802
00:41:39,639 --> 00:41:42,079
to him to put it in that category.

803
00:41:42,159 --> 00:41:44,599
Speaker 3: You know, we can talk all day about what Pearl

804
00:41:44,679 --> 00:41:48,559
Jam has done in regards to their fame and their popularity,

805
00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:53,480
but refusing to send their best songs to be played

806
00:41:53,519 --> 00:41:56,480
on the radio, It's so interesting to me that they

807
00:41:56,679 --> 00:41:59,199
shun that type of I mean, bon Jovi whores out

808
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,440
their albums like I mean, you know.

809
00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:04,639
Speaker 2: They had the same type of experience that Nirvana had,

810
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:09,480
which was they have almost a literal overnight success, and

811
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,920
theirs was a little bit longer than Nirvana's was. But

812
00:42:13,559 --> 00:42:16,159
Nirvana had been together for quite a while, had released

813
00:42:16,199 --> 00:42:20,800
another album before never Mind became the big overnight success

814
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,199
that it was. These guys had literally gotten to I mean,

815
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,320
they had gotten together in the fall of nineteen ninety

816
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,119
and by nineteen ninety two, this thing is exploding and

817
00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:36,800
they're playing Lollapalooza with these giant arenas and Eddie Vedder

818
00:42:37,559 --> 00:42:39,920
like Kurt Cobain was just like, I don't want to

819
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,079
be here instantaneously. I wanted to go through years of

820
00:42:43,159 --> 00:42:46,159
roughing it and playing small clubs and doing these things.

821
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,440
I didn't want the overnight success. This is one that

822
00:42:50,599 --> 00:42:52,480
This is about as close to a love song as

823
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,480
they get on this album, and it really hits home

824
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,320
for me, and I think it does for so many people.

825
00:42:56,679 --> 00:43:00,639
It's about the heartbreak of losing a love. Lyrics, like

826
00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:02,760
many of his lyrics are kind of vague and paint

827
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,639
a picture, but don't give you vivid details, but he said,

828
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,280
you can't really have a true love unless it was

829
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,599
a love unrequited, And I was like, wow, too beautiful.

830
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 3: You know when we talked about radio stations not receiving

831
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,280
this as a single, but they were playing it anyway.

832
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,239
It reached all the way to number three on the

833
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:33,920
Hot Rocks chart.

834
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing.

835
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,199
Speaker 3: It's really good. I like at the very end that

836
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,360
little to me, that's where the song really comes together.

837
00:43:56,079 --> 00:43:58,719
After Black, we now go into what I think is

838
00:43:58,719 --> 00:43:59,960
the best song on the entire album.

839
00:44:00,119 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 2: Jeremy, So you sent me a video today by this

840
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,199
guy named Rick Beto, which I hadn't seen before, that

841
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,800
is called what makes this Song Great? Episode five Pearl

842
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,119
Jam And they look at he looks at Jeremy, And

843
00:44:20,639 --> 00:44:24,159
my response to you was, this is so musically over

844
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:28,360
my head that I can't possibly begin to even relay

845
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,360
what's going but I can just tell you, as someone

846
00:44:31,519 --> 00:44:35,239
who does have some musical experience, Holy crap. I didn't

847
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,920
realize all of the intricacies that they had going on

848
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,920
on this and to be such a world famous hit

849
00:44:42,039 --> 00:44:44,840
and to do all of the strange things that they're

850
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,559
doing on this one, I'm just like, holy smokes it's awesome.

851
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 3: Again, I'm not a musician. I understood even less of

852
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,360
this than you did. But he does talk about the

853
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,199
unusual octave jumps that they make throughout this song. Yeah,

854
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,599
so I wrote down a couple of example. So he's

855
00:45:00,599 --> 00:45:03,840
talking about the pools of maroon below, and then he

856
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:08,039
jumps up to daddy, you know that huge jump, and

857
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,599
he does it several times throughout the song. So it's

858
00:45:10,639 --> 00:45:13,440
just an incredibly complex he said, it's similar to something

859
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:14,920
like a jazz musician would do.

860
00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 2: It's fantastic musically. And then of course the subject matter

861
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,679
of the song is so strong. I mean, this is

862
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:27,159
about the actual suicide of a boy in Texas named

863
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,360
Jeremy Dell, who, at sixteen years old, was sent to

864
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,760
go get an admission slip and came back with a

865
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,920
gun and said, I didn't get the admission slip, but

866
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,400
I got what I meant to, and then killed himself

867
00:45:39,639 --> 00:45:40,760
in front of his English class.

868
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 3: Shot himself on January eighth, nineteen ninety one, which would

869
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,559
make him probably very close to yours or my age.

870
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,039
Speaker 2: So yeah, who that hurts my heart. Eddie Vedder had

871
00:45:51,079 --> 00:45:54,480
read about this Jeremy Dell in the Dallas Morning News.

872
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,239
And it actually reminded Hymn of someone that he knew

873
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,039
in school who one year brought a gun to school

874
00:46:02,119 --> 00:46:06,320
and didn't you himself, but shot a fish tank. Yeah,

875
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,840
and so Edie Eddie said, And I had been in

876
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:10,760
a fight with his kid the year before. You know,

877
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,159
can you just imagine like seeing the guy that you

878
00:46:14,199 --> 00:46:16,360
were like, yeah, kick his butt, and then in the

879
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,519
next year you're like, oh, holy crap, he brought a

880
00:46:18,559 --> 00:46:21,159
gun to school. He shot the fish tank.

881
00:46:21,159 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 3: On a lighter note. My good friend and friend of

882
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,039
the show, Tristan Martin told me when I told him

883
00:46:28,039 --> 00:46:30,519
we were doing Pearl Jam he said, one of the

884
00:46:30,559 --> 00:46:32,679
things I know about Pearl Jam ten is that they're

885
00:46:32,679 --> 00:46:36,760
a twenty nine oohs. Jeremy, he said, nim My brother

886
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,599
would sit and listen to this song and count the ooze.

887
00:46:40,199 --> 00:46:42,519
So justin thank you for that little bit of nugget

888
00:46:42,559 --> 00:46:42,920
right there.

889
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,119
Speaker 2: I mean nine oohs. So this one, this is the

890
00:46:46,119 --> 00:46:51,000
one one of the professional, professionally done videos. It was

891
00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:54,519
done by Mark Pellington, who also did the rooster video

892
00:46:54,559 --> 00:46:58,079
for Alison Chains and who directed the movie Arlington Road.

893
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,760
He said he did three of Eddie singing, and then

894
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,360
almost the rest of the video was just him, his

895
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,400
own creation. The band said, we don't really want to

896
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:10,639
be in the video, so you get like little brief

897
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,559
flashes of the band, You get Eddie sitting on a

898
00:47:13,599 --> 00:47:17,519
stool singing, and then mostly it is the creation of

899
00:47:17,679 --> 00:47:18,400
Mark Pellington.

900
00:47:18,519 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 3: This song is the best song on the album in

901
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,760
my opinion, and one of the best songs of the nineties.

902
00:47:25,079 --> 00:47:28,039
Speaker 2: So on Jeremy. The B side of Jeremy was a

903
00:47:28,039 --> 00:47:32,719
song called Footsteps, which most people don't know but it is.

904
00:47:33,079 --> 00:47:36,400
It's a very different sounding it doesn't sound like the

905
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:43,840
other songs on this album think about but it was

906
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,119
the third part of that Mama Son trilogy and you've

907
00:47:47,119 --> 00:47:51,360
got the incestuous relationship, which then leads to the serial killer.

908
00:47:51,440 --> 00:48:02,960
Well Footsteps is he's in prison awaiting execution? Oh no,

909
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:04,599
all right.

910
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 3: Next song after Jeremy is a song called Oceans the.

911
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 4: Kers.

912
00:48:13,519 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 3: We'll say this is the fourth single, released December seventh,

913
00:48:18,119 --> 00:48:19,039
nineteen ninety two.

914
00:48:24,079 --> 00:48:29,639
Speaker 5: And we're yes, this is about a surfboard. No, I'm

915
00:48:29,639 --> 00:48:30,239
just kidding that.

916
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 2: He joked in MTV Unplugged about it being about a surfboard,

917
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,519
but it was. And then he said, no, I'm just kidding.

918
00:48:37,599 --> 00:48:40,760
It's about a girl named Beth who I hopefully will

919
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,880
see you tomorrow, And you know got to think that

920
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,639
that's probably the lady he ended up marrying later on,

921
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,039
named Beth Leibling This.

922
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 3: You think of these guys as being so serious about

923
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,960
their music, they're always very serious seeming, But the story

924
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,360
behind this song actually made me laugh out loud. So

925
00:48:58,039 --> 00:49:01,440
they're recording and you go play pay the parking meter

926
00:49:01,519 --> 00:49:07,519
for me. Yeah, so somebody says they were recording, doing

927
00:49:07,519 --> 00:49:10,199
some work in the recording studio. Hey, Eddie, here's some change.

928
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,960
We run out to the meter and plug this in

929
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,239
my car. I'm about to I'm about to flip over

930
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,719
and get a ticket. So Eddie goes outside to plug

931
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,199
some coin into the meter and locks himself out of

932
00:49:20,199 --> 00:49:23,239
the studio while it's raining and cold.

933
00:49:23,639 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's for it, and he's not.

934
00:49:25,519 --> 00:49:27,599
Speaker 3: He doesn't have anything to so he's freezing his butt

935
00:49:27,599 --> 00:49:30,159
off in the wet rain, and so he just sits

936
00:49:30,199 --> 00:49:31,960
down and writes the lyrics to the song.

937
00:49:32,159 --> 00:49:34,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just happen to have a pen and a

938
00:49:34,159 --> 00:49:36,840
piece of paper, and they're still playing like they're still

939
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,280
playing on the inside. You know, they can't hear him,

940
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,960
but he can hear it now, so he's like, Okay,

941
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,360
I can hear the bass here. I guess Fitt might

942
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,079
as well write a song to this, And so you've

943
00:49:47,079 --> 00:49:49,800
got this really kind of sweet, short song. This is

944
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:51,719
the shortest lyrics that you're going to see on any

945
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,119
of the song. But he sits there and listens to

946
00:49:54,159 --> 00:49:57,719
the bass and writing lyrics, and then when the bass

947
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,920
stops playing, he's like oh and starts pounding on the

948
00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:02,320
door and then they here's the bass playing again.

949
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,599
Speaker 3: That's funny. So this song, it is interesting to me

950
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:11,199
because this song is I would I would describe it

951
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:16,039
as epic, emotional and grand. Yeah, but it's very short.

952
00:50:16,119 --> 00:50:17,920
This is a song that could go on for eight

953
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,239
or nine or ten minutes, and I would listen to it.

954
00:50:20,199 --> 00:50:22,320
It's like, was it not even three minutes? I mean

955
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,599
it's real short. Yeah, kind of interesting. The video was

956
00:50:24,599 --> 00:50:27,239
shot in Hawaii and inspired by his love of surfing.

957
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the This is one. If you look

958
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,559
at the liner notes, you'll see that the guy who

959
00:50:33,679 --> 00:50:35,719
ended up mixing the album for him. By the way

960
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,000
they spent they didn't spend as much money on this one,

961
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,840
as they did when they did Apple for Mother Lovebone,

962
00:50:42,039 --> 00:50:45,360
but they spent way more money on the mixing side

963
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,280
of things than on the recording side of things. So

964
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:51,159
they mixed the album at a place called Ridge Farm

965
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:56,599
Studios in Dorking, and they're recording and they're about as

966
00:50:56,639 --> 00:51:00,880
far away from any kind of musical equipment supply places

967
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:03,519
you're going to be. And so Tim Palmer, the guy

968
00:51:03,519 --> 00:51:06,639
who's doing the mixing for them, they couldn't get to

969
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,360
like percussion that the mixer thought they needed, and so

970
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,599
he ended up using a pepper grinder, kind of like

971
00:51:13,639 --> 00:51:16,719
a Morocca or something, and then he used he takes

972
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:21,199
some drum sticks and beats on a fire extinguisher, and

973
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,639
so that's what you get on the little the little

974
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,639
pings and the clicks that happen in this particular song

975
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,199
is some random percussion whatever it is. And more credit

976
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:35,119
and liner notes for pepper mill and fire extinguisher. This

977
00:51:35,159 --> 00:51:37,760
one also is one in the open D tuning and

978
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,079
this one is Stone Gossard's favorite track off of ten

979
00:51:41,199 --> 00:51:44,559
and also Jeff Ament's favorite track off of ten.

980
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,679
Speaker 3: It's an amazing song. I love it, Okay, moving on

981
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:54,599
song after Oceans This song is called Porch. This is

982
00:51:54,639 --> 00:51:58,679
a song that for me and my family, you got

983
00:51:58,679 --> 00:52:00,920
to be quick on the skip because that F word

984
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,960
is like one and a half seconds into it. And

985
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,800
for my family, this will get my cape confiscated, So

986
00:52:07,199 --> 00:52:09,320
you'll be super fast on the skipper on this one.

987
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is one. I just love it. It's just

988
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,199
so angry, and you know one that you're going to

989
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:19,239
go into the mosh pit on it is Yeah, this

990
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,119
is the other one. This is number five that he

991
00:52:21,159 --> 00:52:22,960
wrote on the way to Seattle to meet them for

992
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,519
the first time. And the lyrics on this one, you

993
00:52:25,559 --> 00:52:29,679
know the other ones are they they have a beautiful

994
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:33,679
poetry to them and that you can tell what they're about,

995
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:37,440
but it's not like it's in your face. You get

996
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,840
an impressionist painting kind of thing on these other songs.

997
00:52:41,159 --> 00:52:44,840
With Porch, it's way open to interpretation as to what

998
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:49,639
he's talking about. But it's got this fantastic instrumental break,

999
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,760
like it's completely different hits the E minor. Here it goes.

1000
00:52:58,639 --> 00:53:01,360
So while this solo going, it's a nice long solo,

1001
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,400
and of course for their live shows that extend it

1002
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,480
even further. And if you've ever seen any Pearl Jam live.

1003
00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:09,519
You know that Eddie Vedder is going to get bored

1004
00:53:09,559 --> 00:53:13,159
and go start climbing stuff, and so this is the song.

1005
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,239
He's like, all right, nice long guitar solo in this song,

1006
00:53:16,639 --> 00:53:19,800
Let's go climb up on the rafters. Swing, And you know,

1007
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:21,840
the guys talk about how they're watching him do this,

1008
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,719
and they're like, I was frightened to death every single time.

1009
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,320
We're just watching and just waiting for him to Yeah, okay, there,

1010
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,159
our lead singer just died. He just fell to his

1011
00:53:33,199 --> 00:53:36,239
death in front of us. It was crazy, scary to

1012
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,360
see him do this stuff. But man, he was living.

1013
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 4: Line all right.

1014
00:53:50,079 --> 00:53:52,280
Speaker 3: After Porch, we get a song called Garden.

1015
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one again. I love it. I didn't know

1016
00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:05,360
until recently what it was about. I just enjoyed the song,

1017
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:07,960
had my own interpretation on it. But apparently they came

1018
00:54:08,039 --> 00:54:11,039
up with this one when they heard about the invasion

1019
00:54:11,199 --> 00:54:15,400
of Kuwait. There's no mystery about how they feel about Bush,

1020
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:20,199
both senior and junior, and so they when they heard

1021
00:54:20,199 --> 00:54:23,280
about this, they were so frustrated. And the Garden of

1022
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,440
Stone is a cemetery and I will walk with my

1023
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,800
hands bound. It's kind of this idea of being forced

1024
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:33,119
into war. But it's still just again, a beautiful song.

1025
00:54:33,159 --> 00:54:34,760
What did you think? This is not again, not one

1026
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,599
of the ones that's mainstream awareness. So what did you

1027
00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:38,519
think when you heard this one?

1028
00:54:38,599 --> 00:54:41,159
Speaker 3: I would call this song dark and beautiful. I mean

1029
00:54:41,199 --> 00:54:44,440
the whole album to me has a hint of sadness

1030
00:54:44,639 --> 00:54:47,679
to it. I would say, you know, Nirvana's Nevermind is

1031
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,280
more about being angry and rebellious. This record is more

1032
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:52,840
emotional and sad.

1033
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, brooding. Brooding is the word that I used you

1034
00:54:56,679 --> 00:55:00,440
There obviously lyrics about deeper things from both bands, But

1035
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,119
whereas Kurt Cobain is more a scream at authority, this

1036
00:55:05,159 --> 00:55:08,239
is more of a brooding anger that you get from

1037
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:08,800
Eddie Vedder.

1038
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 3: I do like how there's two guitars. When you listen

1039
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:14,079
to it on headphones, you get one guitar on the left,

1040
00:55:14,559 --> 00:55:17,440
one guitar on the right, and they make that beautiful

1041
00:55:17,639 --> 00:55:22,360
fullness that's really satisfying. Definitely, love it, beautiful song, Love it.

1042
00:55:24,119 --> 00:55:24,519
Speaker 4: All right.

1043
00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:27,599
Speaker 3: So after Garden we have a song called deep Again.

1044
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 2: I can't do anything but gush about all of these songs,

1045
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:33,920
but this one is another one that's very much open

1046
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:37,519
to interpretation. There's not a you know, I've seen a

1047
00:55:37,559 --> 00:55:41,239
whole bunch of different ideas about what this song is about,

1048
00:55:41,519 --> 00:55:43,119
and I don't agree with any of them, and I

1049
00:55:43,119 --> 00:55:45,079
don't know that the band has said anything about it.

1050
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,159
But I mean you get hints of you know, you

1051
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,920
get a man on a window ledge about to jump

1052
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,519
out maybe or maybe it's drug use, or maybe it's murder,

1053
00:55:54,679 --> 00:55:56,760
or maybe it's rape, and it's all this kind of

1054
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:57,840
multi meaning.

1055
00:56:00,599 --> 00:56:08,119
Speaker 3: Well, No, this was probably my least favorite song on

1056
00:56:08,159 --> 00:56:08,800
the entire album.

1057
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:09,679
Speaker 2: What bothers you about it?

1058
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,760
Speaker 3: It doesn't bother me. It just doesn't grab me like

1059
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,599
the others do to me. It didn't have the beauty

1060
00:56:14,679 --> 00:56:17,280
of Oceans or Garden, and it didn't have that same

1061
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,199
hook that even Flow and Alive have And Jeremy's on

1062
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:23,679
its own level for me, but it's in the lower third.

1063
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:25,519
It's still good, but it just didn't grab me.

1064
00:56:25,599 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one. I think I've said something about the

1065
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:31,760
end of Jaws before, like, if if you've made it

1066
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:33,719
this far in the movie, you're totally going to buy

1067
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:39,280
in on an exploding oxygen tank, right for Deep, I've

1068
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,280
bought in so hard on all nine songs leading up

1069
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,039
to this one that I was just like, it just

1070
00:56:44,079 --> 00:56:46,440
fell right into the groove and I just love it

1071
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:47,639
each and every time I hear it.

1072
00:56:47,679 --> 00:56:53,199
Speaker 3: So all right, So the last song on the album

1073
00:56:53,519 --> 00:56:57,920
is a fantastic song. Amazing that to me, it's similar

1074
00:56:58,079 --> 00:57:01,000
to something in the way at the end of never Mind.

1075
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,480
I don't know why they kind of hold this gem

1076
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:09,079
to the very last track, but Release is awesome. It's beautiful,

1077
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,159
it's sing along you're at the concert that the light's

1078
00:57:12,199 --> 00:57:12,639
going up.

1079
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 2: This is a song that they kind of came up

1080
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:16,360
with in the studio. It was you know, they would

1081
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,639
be jamming on the song and it had this deep

1082
00:57:18,679 --> 00:57:21,719
and beautiful feel. And then Eddie just goes up to

1083
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,039
the microphone and just starts singing like it hasn't he

1084
00:57:25,079 --> 00:57:28,440
hasn't written anything down. He just starts singing what's on

1085
00:57:28,519 --> 00:57:43,679
his heart and and it's about his dad. I mean,

1086
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,159
it's about oh, dear dad, do you see me now?

1087
00:57:46,519 --> 00:57:49,039
And his idea that he's got to release the pain

1088
00:57:49,119 --> 00:57:52,320
that he's dealing with. And you know, he talks about

1089
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,679
how he's he's singing this and it's it's deeply meaningful

1090
00:57:55,719 --> 00:57:58,639
to him. And then he's looking around and he realizes,

1091
00:57:58,679 --> 00:58:02,000
my gosh, the other band members are totally feeling this

1092
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,000
because of what they went through with Andy Wood, that

1093
00:58:05,039 --> 00:58:08,719
they've got they've still got this deep emotional scar that

1094
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,039
they have to overcome, that they have to let go

1095
00:58:11,159 --> 00:58:16,760
and ultimately move on with life. So for anybody, for

1096
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:21,079
anybody who's lost something, who's lost somebody really close to them,

1097
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,519
this song can be a very emotional song to listen to.

1098
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:36,559
Speaker 3: Nice, thank you for that. D So that wraps it up.

1099
00:58:36,599 --> 00:58:37,599
I mean, that's ten.

1100
00:58:38,039 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 2: So they released ten and it wasn't like the overnight

1101
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,360
success that never mind was. It took a little while

1102
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,360
to gain its traction. But by August of ninety two,

1103
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,800
they had reached number two on the Billboard two hundred.

1104
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,920
But you know who they could not unseat.

1105
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:56,519
Speaker 3: Billy Rayciris World.

1106
00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:00,199
Speaker 2: What were you thinking, Oh my god.

1107
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 3: Billy ray Cyrus's album Some Gave All was number one

1108
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:07,880
for seventeen weeks in the nineties.

1109
00:59:08,079 --> 00:59:11,519
Speaker 2: Everyone who's listening right now should just punch themselves right

1110
00:59:11,559 --> 00:59:13,880
in the face one time for allowing that to happen.

1111
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 3: All right, were ready to put these on the scales? Yeah,

1112
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,159
why don't you lead off? I know you have kind

1113
00:59:21,159 --> 00:59:23,639
of a stronger relationship with this album in particular.

1114
00:59:23,719 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 2: Okay, so putting these two on the scales it is

1115
00:59:26,519 --> 00:59:28,440
difficult for me to do. I thought when we started

1116
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,280
this process it was going to be super easy for

1117
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,800
me to do, because, as I've said before, ten is

1118
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:35,480
one of my favorite albums of all time, maybe my

1119
00:59:35,599 --> 00:59:37,920
favorite album of all time. There is nothing wrong with

1120
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,840
it from beginning to end, including that fantastic hidden track

1121
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,440
that begins and ends the album. But then when I

1122
00:59:43,519 --> 00:59:47,440
listened to never Mind, I was impressed. I was just like, Wow,

1123
00:59:47,519 --> 00:59:50,199
this is a lot better than I I just never

1124
00:59:50,239 --> 00:59:52,920
gave it that chance, you know, I had kind of

1125
00:59:53,199 --> 00:59:55,440
I told you I had written off these guys, and

1126
00:59:55,559 --> 00:59:57,920
to me, Nirvana was still kind of written off. I

1127
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:01,880
had this fantastic, you know, romance experience with smells like

1128
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:06,320
teen Spirit oddly enough, but it was it wasn't a

1129
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:08,679
band that I was fully invested in, and they were

1130
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:10,679
just the kind of were weird and loud and not

1131
01:00:10,719 --> 01:00:14,039
particularly strong musicians from my way of thinking back then,

1132
01:00:14,159 --> 01:00:17,960
but now listening to him now twenty five years later,

1133
01:00:18,119 --> 01:00:22,000
dang it good. That was really really good, and there's

1134
01:00:22,039 --> 01:00:26,480
a rawness to their sound that's enticing to me. I mean,

1135
01:00:26,519 --> 01:00:29,840
you know from our past musical talks that I prefer

1136
01:00:30,039 --> 01:00:33,119
the less produced sound, and if you look at these

1137
01:00:33,119 --> 01:00:36,760
two albums, there's no question Nirvana sounds less produced. I mean,

1138
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:38,960
we talked about the fact that Butch Vig did a

1139
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,559
whole lot of producing, but he did it in such

1140
01:00:41,559 --> 01:00:44,119
a way like that it was still very natural sounding.

1141
01:00:44,159 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: You know.

1142
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 2: It's like the best makeup is the one that looks natural, right, Well,

1143
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:49,519
that's what he did with that album. But I can't

1144
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:52,760
I mean, as good as never Mind is and as

1145
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,960
much as I was impressed with it, I cannot escape

1146
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:59,840
the fact that ten is flawless from beginning to end.

1147
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:04,440
It still has staying power. It is more produced, and

1148
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:06,639
the band has said as much. You know, they're like,

1149
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:08,719
I really wish we didn't have as much reverb on

1150
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,559
that album, and we would have done things differently as

1151
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,880
bands in that age tend to do. But the fact

1152
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:21,280
is it is freaking amazing music by amazing musicians. Nirvana.

1153
01:01:21,559 --> 01:01:25,599
Their music was rough and almost deliberately so, which was

1154
01:01:25,679 --> 01:01:28,760
kind of the punk style, and with them you got

1155
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,280
to jump. They jumped away from what was mainstream music

1156
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:35,800
at the time. With Pearl Jam. It was more of

1157
01:01:36,039 --> 01:01:39,360
a stepping stone. It was like, we're fine with the

1158
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:43,679
idea of hard rock, We're fine with screaming guitar solos,

1159
01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:46,639
but we're going to put in lyrics that are still

1160
01:01:47,039 --> 01:01:51,159
deep and about the loneliness and despondence of youth, and

1161
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,880
we're going to write about things like suicide and incest

1162
01:01:55,159 --> 01:01:58,639
and mental health facilities and still make it a melodic,

1163
01:01:59,039 --> 01:02:02,159
engaging song. And so as much as I do like

1164
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:06,079
Nevermind more now than I did, then, it still doesn't

1165
01:02:06,079 --> 01:02:08,079
match up to ten for me. Ten is still the

1166
01:02:08,119 --> 01:02:09,000
best in my opinion.

1167
01:02:09,159 --> 01:02:12,679
Speaker 3: What you thought, nice, Nice, Okay, So I'm coming in

1168
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:16,360
very similar to what you're describing. I had never listened

1169
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:18,800
to Nevermind from beginning to end, and I liked it

1170
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,480
a whole lot more than I thought I would. The

1171
01:02:21,519 --> 01:02:25,559
peaks are super high peaks, Okay, come as you are.

1172
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:32,760
Unbelievable song, teen Spirit, unbelievable song right in Bloom, maybe

1173
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:35,119
my favorite song on that entire album. And those are

1174
01:02:35,159 --> 01:02:39,360
so good. But then you have, in my opinion, you

1175
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:44,199
have junk songs like stay Away and Territorial Pissings. To me,

1176
01:02:44,599 --> 01:02:47,960
there's there's some junk songs but there are some absolute

1177
01:02:48,199 --> 01:02:50,760
grand slams on that on that album and as I

1178
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:54,639
whole you know, Drain You and Polly on a Plane.

1179
01:02:54,679 --> 01:02:57,719
I mean, those songs I appreciate and love more. I

1180
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:01,199
do think my personality it's better with the guys from

1181
01:03:01,199 --> 01:03:03,159
Pearl Jam. If I wanted to hang out with somebody,

1182
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:05,039
I'm definitely with them. If I want to go to

1183
01:03:05,119 --> 01:03:08,679
a concert, I'm with them. Who has more staining power?

1184
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:10,559
I mean, these guys are in their fifties now and

1185
01:03:10,599 --> 01:03:12,719
they can sing these songs and they don't age at all,

1186
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:16,679
you know, I mean it's fantastic. So when I put

1187
01:03:16,719 --> 01:03:21,760
them on the scales, it's similar to our bad Thriller argument.

1188
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,880
You know, we have these great, great songs and you

1189
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,360
have some throwaway tracks. This is solid all the way through.

1190
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:31,400
So for me, I'm going to go my voter is

1191
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:31,760
for ten.

1192
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:34,639
Speaker 2: Also, all right, it sounds like ten is the winner here.

1193
01:03:34,679 --> 01:03:38,480
But to all of those Nirvana fans out there who

1194
01:03:38,639 --> 01:03:42,760
thought that Pearl Jam might have been sellouts, especially at

1195
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,920
the ten album, we still like Nirvana.

1196
01:03:46,039 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 3: We really do way more than I thought I would.

1197
01:03:49,239 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, again, this has been a wonderful experience to go

1198
01:03:53,039 --> 01:03:56,639
back and revisit this, much like with def Leppard, and

1199
01:03:56,719 --> 01:03:59,440
much like with Van Halen, was like, dang, I did

1200
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,079
not realize how good some of this stuff was. And

1201
01:04:02,159 --> 01:04:06,320
so please know that we truly love Nirvana, we just

1202
01:04:06,679 --> 01:04:08,119
love Don a little bit more.

1203
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for doing this with me, man. I'm having

1204
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:12,159
a such a great time. Let's hear from you, guys.

1205
01:04:12,199 --> 01:04:14,039
If you think we're crazy, hit us up on Twitter,

1206
01:04:14,159 --> 01:04:17,679
Facebook at Shirley Podcast on Facebook at Shirley Podcast on Twitter,

1207
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:18,760
or send us an email.

1208
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:23,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, send us an email to Shirleypodcast at gmail dot com.

1209
01:04:24,199 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 3: All right, what do we have coming up? Do we

1210
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:26,800
know what we're doing next?

1211
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 2: I believe next up is Bull Durham versus Major League,

1212
01:04:30,519 --> 01:04:33,920
So for that one it will be. I can assure

1213
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:37,480
you another close call. We're gonna both be gushing over

1214
01:04:37,519 --> 01:04:41,559
both of these movies. They're both fantastically awesome and at

1215
01:04:41,559 --> 01:04:43,880
this still, at this moment in time, I cannot tell

1216
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:44,840
you which one I can pick.

1217
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 3: Us the best sounds great. D Thank you. We will

1218
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,800
see you next time on the Shirley You Can't Be

1219
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:55,599
Serious Podcast. This isn't a TV show, Josh, It's a

1220
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:56,280
rock show.

1221
01:04:57,159 --> 01:05:06,119
Speaker 2: Turn the lights off. All music images and movie clips

1222
01:05:06,119 --> 01:05:08,960
are used for the purposes of commentary and education in

1223
01:05:09,039 --> 01:05:11,159
conjunction with the fair Use agreement under the U S

1224
01:05:11,239 --> 01:05:11,880
Copyright Law.