Speaker 1: What is up, fellows that goes on and they have
a valley coming at you with more Yensen of the
NBA podcast, Fame of Yathu Sports, fame of Forbes fame,
and of of course Only Fans celebrity. We're here to
talk about stuff, a lot of it depressing, depending on
which band basee you root for. Before we get started,
have to begin with the dame stuff. Of course, mort,
how are you doing so?
Speaker 2: I'm actually doing pretty well. It's funny you bring up
the only fans thing because I had I had a
guy reach out to me and basically say, look, if
you don't make that one soon, I will, and like
he's he's like he was, he wasn't kidding. It's like
you gotta make it reality just to have it now,
like just to have the account.
Speaker 1: So so now actually make an AI. They're gonna make
an AI more Jensen only fans, which means that you
have to eat them to it and make the real
more only fans.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, no, well he did say something interesting. He said,
Remember the people at Only Fans actually wanted to go
away from the naughty stuff. Remember that they actually wanted
to close that whole thing down and become like quote
unquote serious, So like apparently there is content on that
platform that is naughty, Like.
Speaker 1: Okay, there should be a can you cross it over?
You gotta meld it together? What's naughty? NBA content look
like naughty?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: Look, do we just put like the like the porn
nineteen seventy porn music, Like I thinkcheshne behind right behind
all your monologues.
Speaker 2: Let's do that, right, and we go into all of
like the luther Head rude gay jokes out there, all
of them, Kevin Love, like, we go into all the
funny names. We we that's like, that's it right, because
it's it's actually funny. You asked me that because I
remember this goes ways way back to like when I
was sixteen seventeen, I had this idea that I don't
know why, but I maybe because I was still such
a fan at that point, I wasn't covering the league
so I just looked up to the NBA. And I
remember at school there was a girl who came over
and I was looking at stats where they had player
pictures of players on it, and she was like, oh
my god, she said, like he's so ugly. And I
never looked at it in that light. I was like, okay,
look there, surely there are more attractive NBA players than
this guy. I think she picked out like Petrarch, Drupnutche
or something like that. It was greatious and I showed
her like fifty NBA players, thinking yeah, like she's gonna
eat her words. She was like Nope, every single one
of them was basically ugly until we arrived as Cheul
Mary and she was like, oh, yeah, he can have it.
And so like maybe that's maybe that's a category. Maybe
maybe like let's simply rate NBA players not on their skills,
but just on their way they look.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's wild regression. That's like Wags territory from
ten years ago.
Speaker 2: It's the start of Facebook. The Facebook, that was the
whole point. Anyway, we just do it with NBA players.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we need to move on from here because now
I'm depressed.
Speaker 2: I know me too.
Speaker 1: I think we need to start with Dame Shocker. He's
officially been diagnosed with the torn achilles from that MRI. Yeah,
he does have there are two things I want to
hit with this before getting into the bucks. He does
have a history of like lower body calf stuff, and
we know he was dealing with the DVT that was
in his right calf. There was some speculation that he
shouldn't have come back, the Buck shouldn't have been playing him.
The medical sports experts and like some of them are
actual doctors, have all kind of said, that's not what
happened here. So I'm not trying. I'm just saying I
don't think Damian Miller are the Bucks did anything wrong.
Here is what it seems like. And then the second
thing is this just sucks. Man. This is just like
he's gonna be thirty five. This isn't you know Kevin
Durant who can rise up and jump shoot over everybody.
He needs to dribble and create and be crafty for
the full breath of his impact to be felt. It
just sucks, even if you didn't think the Bucks's window
was open, quote unquote with him and Yannis together, it's
just this blows. These serious injuries always blow. But this
is someone who's incredibly entertaining to watch. I think he
helped really reshape the way that NBA offense is played.
And it just even looking kind of at the him
and Yannis lens of it all, they've now played in
what like to and change playoff games together. Even if
you didn't think their window was open, we were supposed
to get more than that from their time together.
Speaker 2: Man look, Dame for so many years was one of
my favorite players to watch, just one of the most
entertaining dudes. Like remember that shot against Okay seeing the playoffs,
like just to have the balls, the audacity to take
that shot, and ye was it. Paul George afterwards was
at well, it was a bad shot, Like everyone was
trying to downplay like the shot selection, but like here's
the thing nobody cares like, right, be fun, Paul George,
shut up, just acknowledge that it was a crazy good shot.
But it just to have that will power, have that
confidence to take that shot at that point in time,
and the way that he did it, it's like the
balls of this guy. And that's that's always been the
way I've looked at Dame, like just the he's just
so unafraid of everything. So this sucks so much. It
all Also obviously there's so many like rible effects that
we'll get into about the bucks and Gianna's and all
of this because of this injury, Like you never want
to see a guy of this caliber potentially to alter
his career that way. I mean, look, we can't hide
from the fact that Kobe wasn't the same and that
was a similar age, right like thirty six, thirty five,
thirty six and just never the same guy. And of
course there are guys who came back from Achilles tears
and did well, and I do think doctors nowaday are
better than ever in fixing it. But it'd be such
a shame if we are now going to see like
a seventeen point per game Damian Lillard, who was like
shooting in the mid thirties from here on out. That
would be god awful in a and just a horrific
way to like wrap up the final few years of
his career. So here's hoping he'll have a KD turnaround.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even that, how old was KD? Because Lillard's
gonna be thirty five this summer, I believe, And so
he's not gonna come back until he's thirty six, Like
he doesn't play next season. That would be pretty surprising,
right yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh well, I mean the Bucks do like to
rush him back, so we'll see.
Speaker 1: Okay, don't add fuel to that fire, you mentioned it though,
like the shot against Okay, see, even remember the Houston series,
felt like his sort of that was just his that
was his touchstone moment in the sense of, oh, this
dude's going to be a problem, and I think he'll
go down like he's one of those players where the
anecdotes and the stats kind of a line where he's
probably just gonna go down as one of the most
most clutch players of all time, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, oh absolutely. And I hate the fact that
we have to say that like he's going to go
down as that, like we're always already talking about him
as if the career is over. I hate that.
Speaker 1: I don't need to eulogize it. It's just it's very
rare that players well, I mean, I don't even know
if it's very rare so much as Kevin Durant like
came back and was basically Kevin Durant, and it's just different,
I think. So I hope he comes back, and you know,
it'll be in the final year of his deal at
that point, and he's just annihilatory. Just just it sucks.
Though he's older and he's a small point guard to
begin with, which I think you would argue those guys
are typically at an inherent disadvantage when it comes to
the aging curve of their games, and you throw an
Achilles tear into this, and I it just it sucks.
That's what I keep coming back to, is it sucks.
Speaker 2: He's also one of those few active guys who are
like superstars and gets to the line that's on who's
actually drilling almost ninety percent for his career, like eighty
nine point nine for his career on like six and
a half attempts over nine hundred games. The concentration level
that you have to have to hit ninety percent of
your free FROs over the course of nine hundred NBA games,
it's just ridiculous, Like nine hundred games played, twenty five
points per game as well, Like the rosstats like, oh
my god, no, this guy, like I'm not gonna utilgize either,
but like, this guy is definitely going down as an
old timer for sure, and also in the entertainment atmosphere
as well, almost three thousand threes as well. God, I
mean this, no, this is this all such?
Speaker 1: Did you have a career stats pulled up? How many
points does he have for his career?
Speaker 2: Twenty two and a half thousand.
Speaker 1: So hopefully he'll still join the twenty five thousand point club.
I think'll he should still be around long enough to
do that.
Speaker 2: That'll be that'd be nice. And he just he cracked
six thousand assists this year, like he was never an
elite playmaker, So I actually think that's a pretty solid
mark for someone who is in like.
Speaker 1: He did what was it the Pelican series that they
lost way back when it felt like he came not
that he was ever one of the best playmakers in
the game, came out of that series like and then
came back the next season as just a different type
of passer when it was reacting to all his attention,
defenses were throwing at him, and so that was also
super cool to see. And this was something where you know,
just to run counter to the doom and gloom, maybe
he comes back. And just because the way you could
technically leverage him off the ball, like yeah, he hear,
he wouldn't be able to pinball around the same way.
And maybe it gets harder to make sharp cuts or
even set screens. But as someone who's just a transcendent
shooter like there is the floor's basic elmative. Maybe you
don't need to dominate the action. You can still levy
a real impact.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, I mean it's not like when Clay
went down. That was the ACLS here though, first and foremost,
and that was the acousy during his rehab. Unfortunately, like
Clay was a good defender before he went down, he
was actually a very good defender. Dame has never had
that you know, repetition, like reputation that the word he might.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he might also be one of the worst transition
defenders of all time.
Speaker 2: Right, so like can we We can probably argue there's
stuff a lot lost in that department, probably with the
lack of footspeed coming back. So like if you can
just key in offensively and just space the floor, perhaps
that's the pathway. That'd be wonderful.
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll get to a point, not that this would
be it, but kind of how there's still serious injuries.
But when someone suffers an ACL tear, it's not all over,
Like could achilles eventually become this is this part? Like
is this part of that progression? I will cross my
fingers for it, even if that goes against what science
says at the moment.
Speaker 2: Well, I will say this though, because I had a
conversation with someone about this, and that was like, because
both Kyrie and Dame now went down in the same
gear with like devastating injuries, and he made the same
point like, well, you know, an acl harri'sn't that bad anymore.
Where I'm like, well, I mean, sure, if you're in
your early twenties, that's true. Like for a guy like Kyrie,
who's what twenties, thirty three I want to say, thirty two,
forty three, somewhere along those lines, I'm still not entirely
sure he's out of the woodshed, although like knock on
wood that he is. But like, it just gets tough
for coming back from injuries when you're in your mid thirties,
regardless of what it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I need more rest following like weightlifting workouts,
let alone playing high level physical, super athletic basketball for
thirty five plus minutes night in and night out. Let's
talk a little bit about what this means for the
Bucks and so this will be time stamps. So if
you want just to hop to the Yannis trade stuff,
which has to be a conversation about all that, But
I really do think it deserves more of a setup
as to well, why are people going to jump to
the Yiannis trade stuff? And I think a lot of that.
You just talked about this extensively, you said on another podcast.
I was writing about this a little while ago. The
Bucks are going to enter this offseason about twenty three
million below the luxury tax. That does not include a
new deal for Brook Lopez, who was a free agent.
It also assumes that Bobby Porous and Pat Conaton pick
up their player option pack contan duh. Bobby portis kind
of on the fence about like if he might be
able to get a longer deal, it just gets him
more money. Also, notably though dearI Tranch Junior and Torrian Prince.
Prince hasn't been like a huge part of what they've
been doing in the playoffs, but as someone who's on
a minimum contract, they've both been hyper important. They can
be free agent, they are going to be free agents,
and they have they don't The Bucks don't have bird
rights on them, and so it's if they're not going
to be able to offer them what will be the
tax player mid level exception, or maybe they're able to
stay out of the tax if Lopez leaves. Those are
two guys that are probably gone though Dame himself has
two years in one hundred and twelve point six million
left on his contract. Think he's actually this is the
beginning of that Portland extension. And I think he's also
extension eligible this summer, if that matters to anyone. And
so you're not dealing with a ton of financial flexibility.
Here is the point. And then you look at the
Bucks' pick equity. They can trade up to one first
and one first round swap this summer. That is it.
And then you get into all right, well, what's the
best package you could get for that? You have to
attach it to salary per Colpez, a free agent, Damian
or just cut injured. Who are you attaching it to?
Does Kyle Kuzma have any value that he has not
been great for the Bucks? His contract is not. He's
two years under forty one million left, So it's not
that's a deal you can move. I just don't know
wherever you want to start off this list more. But
the Kyle Kuzma thing is, I think he's eminently movable,
but I don't think he's part of the value that
you're sending out anything.
Speaker 2: Right, Probably right, No, you can. He's a contract, That's
what he is. He's a contract that you can send out.
He's sort of fulfiller. He is not someone who an
NBA team goes in and identifies and goes, oh, yeah,
that's the guy we want. If a team does that,
Milwaukee needs to squeeze everything they can out of that.
And just I don't know, right three exactly. I mean,
that's that has to be the thinking there, because he's
not an asset. The issue here, even so I recorded
a Danish podcast about this, You're absolutely right, and we
spent like an hour and a half on it. This
was before a Dame went down, so we also went
into like the whole idea of trading day, and even
with him before the injury, we're both like my co
host and I were like, you know, Dame is probably
worth more as a player than as a trade asset
right now. Oh yeah, So that that also like complicates
matters a great deal. There isn't anything that just stands
as a major boom from Milwaukee outside of Giannest, like
even Ryan Ronald Robert Ryan Rollins. That was hard, apparently,
I'm okay, okay, that was tough. That was a tough one,
all the rs. Good player. I actually I am. I'm
actually pretty optimistic about his future. He's going to be
a restricted free agent, so that there might be more
money on the cap from there, Like Kevin Porter Junior.
Despite him as a human being as a basketball player,
he's fine and he's.
Speaker 1: Been too important to them. Yeah, you're right, that's right
player option.
Speaker 2: I think he has right player option two and a
half mil He could leave, like it's just so contractually speaking,
there's not a whole lot to do here. But more importantly,
Yannis also wants to win. I understand how in love
with Milwaukee he is, and I will say, aunt Blue
s guy. I did like air this. You know, the
possibility that he could leave, a lot of Bucks fans
did take well. I mean, I don't want to say
they took offense, but they were like no more. Like
Yannis loves Milwaukee. He's gonna stay regardless. And I'm I'm
reaching that point where that would be romantic, Like, yes,
that would absolutely be romantic if he was just like, yes,
I want to stay with this organization regardless. But I
don't think he's wired that way. Could you not see
Yannis just by the twenty game mark next year, if
they it's still Doc Rivers on the sidelines and it's
like his poor roster all around him, they're playing like
four hundred ball and he's just like, no, Like, what
the hell what are we doing here? That scenario is
very very obvious to me.
Speaker 1: I think it's obvious, and I mean I do want
to go there. But what I really want to ask
you is like, what is the what is the case
for the Bucks to not take the initiative going down that.
Speaker 2: There isn't one? What like what can they work like
realistically speaking, where can they go from here to build something?
Speaker 1: Well? I I don't for next season. I really don't know.
You would have to hope like Dame coming back in
twenty twenty six, twenty seven, and that are you able
to man? But it if so, you're operating into the
assumption Dame doesn't play next season. I get, what are
you obligated to bring back Brook? What is the best
and now all of a sudden, what's your primary like
priority if you're going on the trademark and saying, you know,
we're gonna put the pick and the swap on the
table and attach whatever money we need to it has
to be another self creator. And are you looking at
it through because you don't have Dame and you arguably
needed something like that as well anyway, And so you
have to look at it through two lenses of was
it just get the best player we can or are
you also trying to well, we also would like someone
who could fit with Dame, And you're honest, when Dame
is healthy enough to play down the line, I think
it's an imp this, I'll say I I do think
who's that player?
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to interrupt with who's that player? Like, give
me a name or give me like a talent level.
What type of talent level are we looking at here?
Are we looking at all Star? Are we looking at
go to starter? What type of player quality we're looking
at here?
Speaker 1: Without Dame, it probably needs to skew all Star. And
that's the problem is that can you get that guy? No,
that's what I mean, That's what I was gonna say,
is that you can't find the ideal name, and so
then you can get into the pattern of we'll just
get the best player that you can and figure out
the rest later. But without Dame, the gap between them
and like the Calves and the Celtics like is I
would say insurmountable. And then it's can they even catch
the Pacers or the Knicks with like a type of
like hitting a double on the trade market, So they
probably can. And so you look at next year specifically,
and you're saying it would have to be almost a
gap year, which rings hollow when you don't control the
fate of your own first round pick. Yannis, that'll be
his as a age thirty one season. He's thirty nine.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. Yannis can't afford a gap year, like
he is going to be thirty one this year.
Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna I'm gonna play Devil's advocate here though,
and say, I don't know if Jannis isn't going to
ask for out, and I'm the Bucks just because I
don't control my own draft picks, I don't I can
see the case. It's sort of like Devid Booker in
Phoenix to where it's only it's worse because you can't
just trade him to one place and say, oh, we're
gonna get back two of our first distance or three
of our distant first round picks, like that option isn't
really available to them. So like yeah, if there's a
if there's a package that cut one of the truth,
like if Yannis here's my point, if Jannis doesn't ask
for out and I this could be a repeat of
what we say that Portland should have taken the initiative
and moved Damian Lillard. I think this is different in
the sense that Portland never even did enough to optimize
the Damian Liward window, and they were very clearly moving
toward a future timeline. It seems like they just didn't
want to be the ones to lose the press conference
round the relationship, and they put the onus on him.
In this case, it's you're not like because at the
end of this shit stained rainbow, I guess if you're rebuilding,
you don't control your own picks. If Giannis doesn't want
to leave and he wants to give it another season,
I'm not sure if I could take the initiative and
move him anyway. Maybe they could, because we did see
Horst he like kept Drew Holliday's name out of trade talks,
and they say that that was out of respect to Drew,
but that was really out of respect to the Bucks,
because Drew probably would have liked the heads up that
a trade was coming when we just saw the move
Chris Middleton to Washington. I don't think he you know,
I'm not not saying he was a malcontent in Washington.
It seems like they really appreciate his voice. But I'm
sure he didn't want to go to the Wizards, so
maybe they have the gall to move Giannis without him asking.
But man, if he says I want to give it
at least another year, he just I know, I'm not
gonna request a trade mid season. I'll gut it out.
I would have a tough time moving him because this
is a once in a lifetime type of talent and
I don't even see the and we can get to that.
I think that's the next phase. But I wanted to ask.
If he doesn't ask for out, that doesn't change your
calculus year at all.
Speaker 2: No, it doesn't what I do. If he doesn't ask out,
even if he comes to me and says, look, I
want to be here another year, I'm going to ask
him for a meeting, him and his agent, and I'm
gonna sit them both down and say, look, while we
greatly appreciate that, while we absolutely understand that having you
on this roster is an enormous asset, and you mean
everything to us as a franchise. You're the best player
in franchise history. There's no way we're going to be
better in the long run here unless we have to
replenish our cupboard. So how about you and I work together,
You and your agent and me, we work together on
finding a situation that's optimal for you and where the
trade return is optimal for us, because this is just
kicking the can down the road, and we as an
organization who have grown fond of you, also don't want
to see you waste a or if you're prime, we
are fans of yours. We've seen you grown up, grow
up right in front of our eyes. We want to
make sure that you are happy with the rest of
your career, and we also want to make sure that
we're on the right path moving forward as an organization.
Speaker 1: I think I lean towards that argument. I just think
when that play like replenishing your cupboard, unless it's someone
you're getting back that you believe you can rebuild around,
it just gets so tough because then you're gett into
shorting futures of other teams because you can't dictate like
you just don't have control over your own first round
picks their next They don't have control of their own
first round until twenty thirty one.
Speaker 2: Correct as a long time, but that means you've got
to get the draft picks elsewhere. And look, I have
a trade. I don't know if we should get there already.
I can save it for later, but I have one.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess let's move on to that. Just to
like the cliff notes on the Yanni stuff is that
I would call his and you can tell me if
you disagree with this nutshell, because he basically has said
I will stay in Milwaukee until I decide that I
can't contend there, and that's basically just been what he said.
So like he has sound someone not like he's you know,
throwing out these threats. But I don't think where there's
other players that maybe you couldn't envision requesting a trade.
I do think Giannis is the type of player that would.
We also had Chris Haynes, whose cousin is Gianni's fiance,
for people who care about that stuff, says he doesn't
think I'll tend to coopole finish his career in Milwaukee
I don't know how much I read into that specifically,
because I think we could say that about literally any
player who's yet to change teams in the NBA, Like
what is the It'd be hard to envision Yokic on
another team, But I'm not going to rule out Jokic
right finishing his career on another team. Uh. He has
three years and one hundred and seventy five million left
on his deal player option. At the end of that,
you said you had a trade. Is there like a
you know, let's hear that first trade then, because I'm
interested to see like how you're because I think when
you mentioned the not like having control of their own
draft picks. I know you say you got to get
the draft picks somewhere else, but if you're trading Giannis somewhere,
you're inherently, I would say, diminishing the value of that
team's own draft picks, which I think really complicates.
Speaker 2: Oh that's back. If you don't If you think I
haven't taken that into account, sir, you must think very
lowly of me.
Speaker 1: I didn't think you would have taken into account I'm
saying it. I'm gonna fascinated to see how your packages
account for that.
Speaker 2: So there are two picks in a package of total
a total of five picks first rounders, all first rounders
that are that team's own, where you just kind of say,
all right, well, but they're in twenty nine and forty one,
so like they might actually be good. It's the San
Antonio Spurs. The deal is Devin Vessel, Harrison Barnes, jerem
is Sohan. Then the Chicago pick in twenty twenty six,
the unprotected Atlanta pick in twenty twenty seven, which could
be pretty juicy, and there's a Boston pick in twenty
twenty eight, which you know it's I'm not closing the
door on that being more interesting than what it is
right now because we have kept her. We've heard the
rumplings about like the Celtics might actually eventually think it's
time to be concerned about the tax and new ownership.
We don't really know. And then it's the Spurs themselves
that send out two unprotected picks from them from themselves
in twenty nine and forty one.
Speaker 1: That's a really good package. And I love me some
Devin Misselle. I actually like that Steph Castle's not in
there because I'm just lower on him long term than
a lot of other people. If he feels very if
he never develops like any semb once of a jumper,
I don't know like what his ceiling then becomes. And
so I don't I think to me, I'd rather try
to have to start building a team around Devin Vessel
than I would Steph Castle. With that said, now, is
that Boston pick that's a swap? Right?
Speaker 2: Oh? It might be is I'm looking at a screen
crap that I did of it, so I don't remember
the details of that. It's the I do think so
perhaps it's a swap.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is still I mean pretty like you said
distant having the having a bull's pick in there, But
you said a bulls pick.
Speaker 2: Right, correct in twenty twenty six. It's protected though, so
like to p yes, correct, but it's the bulls so
who knows.
Speaker 1: Right, they're going to do everything in their power to
make sure they convey that pick. Maybe, uh so, yeah,
so I think the Boston one is a swap. So,
but that's it's top one protected. That's a really loose swap.
That's a good the Atlanta pick, of course, and then
you said, so it's a spurs twenty nine.
Speaker 2: Pick and forty one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good package. I actually don't the
idea of having I guess Wemby's a good enough shooter,
but to have Steph Castle and Giannis on the same team.
Giannis has improved a lot from the mid range though,
but like the Aaron Fox, Steph Gianni like, that's a
lot of iff you shooting.
Speaker 2: Yes, So that's it's interesting you bring that up, because
that was something in Danish of course we were talking
about as well, Like, yes, the spacing would be an issue.
So basically mandate from ownership and from leadership would be
to just surround those guys with shooters like you would
have to like from the bench, and guys who can
come in like everyone else on the roster more or
less would have to be floor spacers.
Speaker 1: I don't hate it, that's like that. What's wild about
that with the spurs is so what assets do they
have left in their clip after that?
Speaker 2: They actually still had a fair bit believe it or not.
Speaker 1: They saw the wolves picks right or they had the Wolves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then of course because of the Stepien role,
they would still have their own picks, some of their
own picks because you just can't trade everything. And then,
like as you kind of alluded to you you might
not be high on Stefan Castle. I'm enormously high on him,
although I do share concerns about the shooting because that
shooting is, oh boy, like when you break it down
in terms of how he hits and how he misses,
it's it's pretty bleak. It's that's said.
Speaker 1: It's a weird. I just want to clarify, because we
always catch shit when I talk about Steph Castle. For
some reason, I actually think his ceiling is higher than
I expected, because, like the defense was kind of has advertised,
the passing is just so good, some of the reads
that he was making, and so I'm like, man, if
that guy had like a consistent and we know he
can get and finish to the rim, if he had
a consistent set jumper or like the in between, just
like floater, just an operable mid range jumper, that his
ceiling becomes way higher than I would have thought coming
out of the draft. I just think there's a higher
chance that he hits his floor, not that he hits
his ceiling, just that there's a higher chance than you
would like that he kind of never hits his ceiling
like that's uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I hear, I think, to me, it's the
fact that he's I thought he was far more intelligent
on the coin that I thought he would be. Not
not that I thought he would be dumb like I
watched him at Yukon, but I thought it would take
a couple of years for that basketball IQ to sort
of carry you over and improve to like NBA standard.
He came out rolling like that, just with reading the
floor in great ways, both defensively and offensively. I think him,
I'm immediately realizing that his strength and his body is
an asset. Is also something that makes me feel very
comfortable about his future. Like I don't I can't even
tell you how many Spurs games I've seen where he'll
attack from the baseline and he'll have a bigger dude
on him, like rotate over. He will power through that
motherfucker's chest and go up and dunk him in the face,
where I'm like, did that just happen? Did a six
six dude just bump off a six eleven two sixty
center and just yam in his face?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like so there's something there. There's a fearlessness that
I adore. There's the ability to get to the free
throw line, there's the passing, there's obviously the defense. He's also,
in my perspective, a pretty good rebounder and someone who
will only get better in that regard. It all comes
down to the three. The three is going to be
the swing skill. But if there's an organization out there
where I'm perhaps less worried about that is probably san Antonio.
Speaker 1: The other thing, too, would be fun. I don't know
if we'd be there the next season, but like there'd
be a time, probably soon where Giannis is all of
a sudden just the third best defender on a team,
and that's kind of terrifying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, I don't.
Speaker 1: That package is right in line. I'd be I'd have
some hesitance, just like what san Antonio's offense ends up
looking like with the talent on that team would just
be so undeniable.
Speaker 2: And you're just me, do we really worry about Wemby
shooting and all this?
Speaker 1: If you're still playing with three questionable shooters at least
in the interim as part of your core lineup, I
think that's a pretty risky gamble.
Speaker 2: Right wellis Fox and Castle. I presume yeah, and it's
it would work.
Speaker 1: I just don't know, like what would the ceiling on
that offense be in the playoffs? I really do a
lot would hinge on Wemby darn Fox and Steph Castle,
just like how those guys develop, or does the Aaron
Fox Like can his shooting kind of make the right
turn where it dipped a little bit this year? I
think the compensation is probably right in line with what
Milwaukee should be thinking about.
Speaker 2: Though perhaps perhaps you do something like this will take
some convincing, but perhaps you go to Castle and his
team and you say, look, we have this opportunity to
go get Gianni's and make a run, like a real run.
How about you become you know, our our our six
man sounds so horrible, but like just our our you know,
our sixth starter, Like you're gonna play for any minutes,
but you're gonna come off the bench just so you
can sort of take over those second units. They might
still help to keep Chris Paul around, Like, hey, I
would imagine Chris could be convinced to return for a year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the fact that he stayed there all
year this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you're starting Julian Champagne at the three,
which I presume you would. You're probably pivoting off Kelton
Johnson for more depth. All of a sudden, your starting
lineup could be CP three, Darren Fox, Julian Champagnie sense
and then you have Steffan Castle and a couple of
guys coming off the bench who can who can do stuff?
Speaker 1: I'd be intrigued. Let's talk about another team that I
think is mentioned a ton. There's two that I feel
like we're obligated to mention m Houston. A lot of
this to me feels like they just have the assets
and so this is what they should do, I guess,
but work like what what is young? Like Giannis does
bring another offensive weapon to what they're doing. He's certainly
better than any of just their playoff performers, right Like,
you're gonna trust him more than a jail and Green,
You're gonna trust him more than an alper Echion Goon
than a fred van Fleet. But like are you, I
don't know? What does that package begin to look like?
And then to me, I'd still look at them and say,
like they still need to go out and either hope
that if he's not traded, reed Shepherd. Is that dude
or they need to go out and find that dude
who can still be kind of the the outside in
like we saw Giannis loveolp Is playmaking this year without Dame.
So I'm not trying to short shrift Gianness here, but
I still think they would need that top like play
like that advantage creator from one of the perimeters.
Speaker 2: No, they would, They would. I mean because presumably a
package would be Dylan Brooks, Jabari Smith, Am and Thompson
and like Torry Eastern or something along those lines, where
like you're that's a lot of guys who are heavily
involved in both the defense and offense. That would go
the other way. So you are going to be reliant
on someone coming in and taking over some bald handling
duties just basically taking making decisions with the ball in
their hands. Who is that going to be? Like Gianna's
is going to take some of that. But like if
if you're looking at a frontman Vliet Jalen Green, Giannis
Sance Tokumbo Corp. Which while Shangun is in there as well,
like do you trust the bald handling from a perimeter
creation perspective. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: Would you if you're the Rockets, do you make you
just kind of outline that package if it's gonna cost you, Amen,
Thompson additional picks. I'd be curiously what they would prefer
to salary to be. It's because they could pick up
fred Van Fleet's team option and say, maybe maybe Milwaukee
doesn't want to deal with just that expiring CR but
maybe they do. Maybe they want that type of to
offload that type of number and in one year they
have a bunch of different routes that they could go
when it comes to matching salaries.
Speaker 2: Right, and you also have I have one note, by
the way, they also have guys who can step into
some of those roles like you pivot off I'm and
Thompson Nintari Easton for example, Like I'm not saying it's
one to one, but you can give can whipmore some
of those minutes. You can make sure that Jayson takes
back and give him some of those mins, like there
aren't guys who can come in and take some of
those mins, like they're not empty.
Speaker 1: Do you know what's also interesting to me? And maybe
the Bucks wouldn't be interested in this, But in this scenario,
I think he's really good, but just because there would
still be redundancies, and they would be more expensive redundancies. Now,
when you look at what they're both making, are you
trying to include Alpharriin Shangoon in this instead of a
man Thompson. I guess if you're not getting the kind
of top level offensive creator we're talking about, maybe you
don't want to. But if your plan is to go
out and get that player, or you think it could
be Reach Shepherd or he could be going to Milwaukee's
part of this. I just the player that we want
the Rockets to get, and it's not even necessarily y honest,
I think they invariably by default come in and they
infringe upon shanng Goon's importance because you're looking for someone
who would deserve to operate with the ball more than him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a really good point. I wouldn't I
wouldn't be a guest.
Speaker 1: I would say if he's not included, this would increase
the likelihood that he is then moved as part of
another deal, is what I would.
Speaker 2: That's that is that is also fair. I mean, at
this look, I don't think there's anyone on the Rockets
where I'm like, no, this guy is just off the
table for Yannis, like everyone's in play. And that's I
say that fully realizing how much I love this iteration
of Houston and the youthful of this roster. But if
you want to take that one step up, Jannis or
Devin Booker, that is the type of guy. Kevin Durraine
is not the guy because he might retire a year
and a half from now, Like we don't know. It's
just I don't want to go after you know, the
super old guys.
Speaker 1: They you know, we could say this about one other
team aside from the Rockets. They could just get both
like Yiannis and I guess the Sons don't want to
move Devin Booker. But like in theory, if you don't
include those Sons picks because you have other picks, but
depending like you would just still My point is you
still we talk about san Antonio would have some assets
left over, but Houston could trade for Joannis and then
probably turn around and go get another All NBA type player.
Speaker 2: That's interesting Yannis and book and like if we we
have to make some assumptions on who's left on this roster,
like is Barry Smith?
Speaker 1: I think not that?
Speaker 2: He and Fred?
Speaker 1: What's that?
Speaker 2: And Fred I assume right?
Speaker 1: Well think, Well, I guess I was thinking in my head,
you're using Fred as like you're picking up his team
option and sending him to one of these teams as
like a salary anchor.
Speaker 2: So Jalen Green is still a round.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess there's so many different there's so many
different paths they could travel down, like because right, maybe
I think you can get away making one mega trade
without including a like one of your younger large salaries
like Jalen Green or Outpro and Shangoun is my point.
But if you're trying to make two, one of them
is gone, you'd probably prefer it to be Jayen Green.
But I also think if Giannis is coming in, you're
probably more open. And if it's Devin Booker coming in,
does it make sense like Jalen Green is the out one?
But they could There's so many different ways they could
game it is would you prefer that like they declined
Fred van Fleet's team option, bring him back on a
smaller number, and you've now traded jail and Green and
Outprin shengg gun as like part of getting Giannis and
book Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, sir, we've just seen two years of positional overlap
in Phoenix with Devin program Bradley Beal. I am not
playing that far game again, no way. And we are
we going into the positional overlap the thing again. Nope,
the whole idea that, oh, well, then book can play
the one because he's a great pick and roll guy.
Let's let's just not. Let's not let's actually unleash him
in the capacity that he was meant to be unleashed,
which is traditionally speaking, a shooting guard.
Speaker 1: So I disagree in the sense. I do think that
I think what happened with the Suns said more about
the lack of adaptability on that too for Braddy Beal's game.
And I think that Jalen Green has not necessarily needed
to be and like we've seen it this year, like, yeah,
they need him to get buckets, but like he is
not needed to monopolize the offense the way that some
of these other higher end guys have. But I am
with you. I want to make it clear if I'm
getting Devin Booker, I probably don't I want Jalen Green
to be a part of that package or whatever. Other man.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you agree, Fred van Leid, Devin Booker can
win more Giannis onto Kombu and who the hell will
their center be? I don't know, but that's a pretty
danger is for him right there.
Speaker 1: So I guess you laid out a package at the beginning.
If we're looking at this from Milwaukee's perspective, like, what
is the what is the end game? Intern so like
we know the picks can be you figure out the
picks later, but is it what are the players you're
do you would you prefer to get Ami Thompson over
Alpern Shangoon just because do you think Thompson has the
higher ceiling? He's just cheaper? Right now? What is like?
What is what is the are you trying to get
Ama Thompson en read Shepherd? Then that means you're probably
not getting as much paid, Like what is what are
you trying to do with Milwaukee? If Houston is the
team to which you're sending you honest.
Speaker 2: Much to your joy reached, Shepherd isn't going anywhere in my.
Speaker 1: Perspective, Well, now I have to interrupt again. Does that
mean he's gonna play?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay, then then I'm all for this.
Speaker 2: Keep going, all right. So it's a good question. I
have Shin Gun and Thompson rated somewhat similarly, so, but
I will say this, Thompson's contract, first and foremost is
obviously a biggers. Secondarily, I think his trajectory is so
ridiculously high that I could see a scenario where in
the box go yeah, Thompson is the guy we're betting
on as opposed to Shanegon. Shaneguon has the higher floor though,
Like that's the thing we know for sure, like what
his floor is, and we're not sure whether Thompson can
get there. We're hoping because it looks that way, but
we've yet seen it full time. So it comes down to,
like a roll of the dice, what do you believe in?
Do you believe there's a second layer of potential in
Shanegon that he's just yet to reach because he was
playing on a fully stock roster that emphasized defense far
more than offense. Or do you just want to say, look,
I'm and Thompson is clay. He can be molded into
anything we want, and we're rolling the dice on that.
That depends on how your front office look looks at things.
Speaker 1: I think I would go the route of who does
Houston seem less valuable in the honest trade? And also
after I think after Yanni's trade is part of that,
because as Milwaukee, I want as many bites at either
the prospect or draft pick apple as I could get.
And I think Shangun is young enough and that contract
is just yeah, he got paid, but it's so innocuous
enough and it's five like they have him for five years.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the contract is good. Oh yeah, No, No,
I'm just saying, in contrast to Thompson, who's like only
in year what two of his room.
Speaker 1: Que it's yeah, I'm saying is if you were who
do you think Houston, if they're sending that out, do
you think they view Thompson as the more nomalous asset,
and so if they were sending out Shangun instead, you
might get Yeah, Like, if I'm Milwaukee, I'm playing the well,
if you're saying omen let's just I'll use this as
a an analog and I'm not trying to be procure better.
Let's say Houston views Amen Thompson as the equivalent of
three first round picks and Alprin Shangoun the equivalent of
two I'm going to want Alprin Shangun and then an
additional draft pick rather than just Domin if I'm the Bucks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Like again, personally,
I don't have a preference. It's everything's on the table,
and like, if this is the way they go and
they decide to go top heavy, like the one thing
I would give me some pause is it could feel
a little like the Nets with Durand and Kyrie, Like
it's almost the exact same situation. The Nets were finally
finding their footing then they were went all in on
those two guys. This could be a similar thing. That said,
I kind of trust Book and Giannis a little bit
more because of their the current age, And like I
do think Houston might have more like just loaded up
than the Brooklyn have that back then.
Speaker 1: Right, And the other thing was too, is like Brooklyn
still had a lot of stuff left over, and it
was they their cardinals in, wasn't I guess it was Kyrie.
It was Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant, But it also
was they just made a lot of bad decisions after that.
DeAndre Jordan over Jared Allen for one of them. Then
you made that James Harden trade in general, and to
be fair, that doesn't look good in hindsight. But if
there weren't injuries or Kyrie Irvings, pandemic views whatever, the
pandemic itself, like that team looked inevitable, like it looked
like it was going to win a championship, and so
I would trust it more, and like you would, you're
getting two guys rather than like it was once they
got the third. Is when it felt like Brooklyn all
of a sudden was operating on this ultra thin margin
for error.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: The other team that is going to be mentioned, which
is wild because they're favored to win the title. I
believe the Yoklahoma City Thunder. Where are your this is?
I hate getting into them because we know that the
Rockets are going to lose at something like this is
not a title team and I'm not trying to poop
poo over Rockets fans dreams. Maybe they get past the Warriors.
I don't think they will. I picked the Warriors in seven,
I think, but the Thunder just might win it all.
And so you have to come at this from two perspectives.
If they don't win it all is jianness that it
might even be three perspectives. It's does Giannis get them
over that hump? Then if they win it all, it's
do you just go get Gianni's freak at tent to
Kupo anyway? And then the third part of all of
that is or I guess it's like an extend the
extension to one of those outcomes, like what are you like,
how how high are you going to go with your offer?
Because you have whatever picks you need. But if Milwaukee
says we want j dub or chet Holmegrin, otherwise we're
not making this deal. Are you moving one? Do you
not care which one? Which one? Are you moving? If
you have to move one? Where do you land on
that part in order?
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, And I'm so glad you asked about Jada
because this is the exact conversation I had on the
Damies pod. And here's my take on it. Because I'm
absolutely loaded with draft picks as well, and I can
get more if I want to, because I can pivot
off of other guys who are rotation level players who
might not be playing this much. Like let's say I
wanted to get even more draft picks. I could shop
Alex Scruso. I could shop I say it, Joe. I
could shop Aaron Wickins if I wanted to. All Right,
So what I do is if Milwaukee says Jayaln Williams,
that's the guy we want, I'm gonna ask Milwaukee, all right,
how many picks will cost us for you guys to
take Jadub off the table? And I'll get an answer,
and I'll say, yes, please, heil call in.
Speaker 1: I agree with that approach. But if that's not an option.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if that's not an option, that's a real conversation
because then you get into like the whole thing about
do you want the long term window or do you
just want let's just be real about this the better player,
Like and I'm sorry, look no, but you're still no.
Speaker 1: One should get mad that you said, yes, is a
better player than Jada?
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, no no. But like I I
have seen some pretty wild takes from from Thunder fans,
like in basically saying, look, in twelve months time, that
might not be the case. And like, look, I'm high
on Jadub, I'm extremely high on Jadap But like, let's
slow a role a little bit here it's Giannis, Like,
let's relax.
Speaker 1: Do you know where I get so? Well, let's first
start here. Who would you if you had if you're
allowed to choose, are you would you give up Chet
Holmgrin instead of JDub. I'm assuming because you could argue
that comes more important with Giannis there, because he really
got him up against Memphis by the way, Chet was
like permitted. I don't think he's ever fired more threes
for Oklahoma City, but you could argue I think J
Dubb is the better player, and I.
Speaker 2: Think I think so too, But I, like you, I
would prefer I would prefer to keep d around Giannis.
Speaker 1: Yes, oh no, I actually would prefer to keep JA Dub.
I'm gonna go with the upside, even though I think
that's the better fit. I'm going because about would Chet
be the thunder second best player? I think J Dub
is Like I'm a grant or is really high on JDub,
so I can't high on him as he is, But like,
I love JDub the same.
Speaker 2: So that's the thing, Like if you choose one of
the other, people are gonna be like, oh, so you
hate that guy? Like, no, No, this isn't one of
those like what's your favorite fruit? Apples? Oh, so, why
do you hate oranges? Right, it's one of those situations
like no, I it's it's Sophie's choice. It is what
it is. If you're looking at it like that, just
all right, Jadub or chat, Oh my god, Like that's
so tough. Like I agree with you guys that Jadub
is better. But I do think you can replicate him
in the aggregate to quote Moneyball a little bit. I mean,
I think you can.
Speaker 1: Man, I don't know that that size and being of
a guard sud I know, I know, okay, okay, recreate
a version of him perhaps, Like I just think it's
easier to find flexible wings. But I know.
Speaker 2: I hear you though, Like I hear you. That's that's
why I wanted to go the first approach, just like
dear Milwaukee, tell us what it is that you want instead,
like how many additional draft picks do you want? Like
that has to be the plan.
Speaker 1: And there's also a part of me that, let's say
the Thunder don't win a title, that I still just
there's a real part of me. It might even be
the part that wins out that says, if that's the
breaking point you want Chet or Jadub, then no, I'm
gonna say no. But that runs counter to everything we
know about championship windows, is that for every team that
is able to sustain or reorient, and I think Golden
State and Boston are kind of the two primary examples. There,
there's everything else. There's you mentioned Brooklyn already, there's the
current state of the Suns right, there's ever the fuck
happened to Philly since twenty twenty one every single year,
and that list kind of goes on, and so that
part of me is like, all right, you need to
if it's gonna cost one of these guys and you
don't win the title this year, Yeah, if you win
the title, you can just say no, I'm not gonna
go up, but we just want the title. We're not
giving up either of these dudes. If you don't, I
think it has to be a discussion. I don't know
where I lived, I still might say no if you
won't let us go out and get you as many
first rounders as you need for the equivalent of Chet
or j Dub. And look, I actually that's fair. The
one underrated thing though about what you said. Those guys
are both extension eligible, and so Milwaukee might be thinking
at it through that where it's okay, those fun maxes
are fun, but they might say, yeah, there is a
number of first round picks you could do to kind
of offset that. It might make it more likely that
you're able to just get Yannis while keeping both.
Speaker 2: Of them right, which would be preposterous.
Speaker 1: Are there any other teams that you think stood out?
I wanted to mention one is sort of a I've
seen it crop up, but I don't think people understand
that they would. It would cost them like one of
their three primary components on the roster, and that's Memphis.
They don't have like large tradable salaries aside from Jaron Jackson,
Juice Month, Desmond Bane and John Moran, and so you
can include They also don't have a bunch of extra
first round picks. They have all their own except for
the year. Sure, that's like a tough I don't I'd
be interested to see what Jannis and Jared Jackson Junior
can do together. But if I'm the Bucks, Jaren might
be the player that I'm talking because you don't I
don't think you want I mean, it'd be an interesting
challenge trade, I guess because you know Damian Miller's injured now.
But like, do you want a package built around John Morant?
If you're all the picks some of those like cheap prospects,
you you would get Zach Edie. I'm assuming, like jaw
ead and picks for Yiannis? Are you doing that if
you're Milwaukee.
Speaker 2: I hadn't even thought about Memphis in terms of Janni's
destination because just earlier today I just published a piece
over at Yahoo about basically breaking them up or well
at least training Will Rant and then frankly not giving
that kind of a contract to Jaron Jackson Junior that
everyone's envisioning because I'm not sure I'm there. Uh what
does that do? Like I'm trying to think of a
way where like we can collect a roster, gather a
roster in Memphis that makes sense for Gianni to go there.
Like I agree that if there is a front court
partner that would make sense, it's Jaron Jackson Junior and
Giannis like those two just yeah, but it would take
morand like what is the is your primary guard Desmond Baine?
Speaker 1: It would have I mean you have are if you're
keeping Scotti Pippen Jr.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Scotty is looking good, so Scottie.
Speaker 1: Bain maybe Chris Paul signs there.
Speaker 2: M hmm. I don't know, man. I like the first
I like the first couple of traits instead a lot
better the first three.
Speaker 1: This one, I'm not gonna lie. I probably do it
if I'm Memphis. I don't Milwaukee's where I give Paul
strip because I don't know what the end game becomes
with John Eadie and then like damons.
Speaker 2: No I do it. If I'm Memphis. I'm just asking,
like what's what's the long term motivation or what's the
sure But like, can they really surround him? Well, maybe
they can still they still have sec climens who can
pick up like gold to the end of the second
round if he wants to. It's just I think that
I think Giannis is age just pressing a little bit
on that one. Like if Gianni's was twenty seven and
you gave Memphis like two years of runway for it,
all right, you know what I'm all in. But it
feels like it's a now situation for him. Can Memphis
a comedy that I don't.
Speaker 1: Know ah, I think they. I mean they're not. What
you have to give credit to Milwaukee for is they've
had misses, like they've generally paid, and they did duck
the second Apron this year. I get it, like members
that Memphis hasn't gone to that extent even where it's oh,
are they gonna duck the second April, No, it's oh,
they're just gonna duckt the tax. So that's a really
fair question. You're not in love with the Memphis idea? No,
what are What are some other teams that you think
need to be mentioned here?
Speaker 2: I see, I think those are the primary ones we
can add. And those teams that are just kind of
stuck in nowhere nowhere territory, but like if they give
up the vast majority of their you know, they're good
pieces on a roster, even training for Giannis, there's a
pretty good chance they're gonna get stuck again, just in
a different way. So it has to be those teams
that have assets to burn and are close enough to
make a run.
Speaker 1: So let me throw a couple out at us candidates,
all right. I do think there's probably Lakers fans that
think that they could get Yannis now because of what
happened with the Lucas stuff. But it's not gonna be
the Lakers. You think Atlanta. They they're gonna have a
new like front office figurehead there. But if they decide
they want to keep Trey Young, they already don't have
their own picks moving for the next this year twenty
six and twenty seven. They just decided, well, we're gonna
set the rest of those on fire to repair Yiannis
and Trey Young. And look they have if you're putting
Jon Johnson on the table, yep, super insure. I don't
know that might be a and you do have some
imminent first where we don't know if the King's pick
is going to technically convey this year, but like they
could build a real package for Giannis. I think if
they wanted to.
Speaker 2: That's one of those teams where I was thinking about that, like,
what is a team that's sort of stuck. That's Atlanta.
But I do think there's salary structure specifically is a
major asset to them. I mean, look, they Clint Capella
is coming off the books, karsal Verte is coming off
the books. You might want to retain him, especially if
we get Yannis, but preferably at a lower price point.
You can always move on from Yeko Kongbu like you
can also pivot off of Terrence Man if you want to.
Not saying that those two guys don't have a spot there,
but perhaps you need to optimize fit if you get
Giannis in there. Those two guys are tradable. You can
also pivot off George Nieing if you want to. Personally,
I would probably keep him there just because of the
spacing that he provides you. But no, there are some
interesting parts here in play that might actually elevate them
a fair bit. So that might be the one team
currently stuck in the middle of nowhere that might see
themselves slither out of that by making that trade.
Speaker 1: Yes, this team is not stuck in the middle of nowhere,
but I feel like they've been mentioned with Giannis for years.
Is there a pathway to Golden State building a real offer?
They have some picks that could give up their odds.
Speaker 2: I don't think it Jimmy. Anybody is Jimmy. The guy
that goes out has to be right.
Speaker 1: I think you're yeah, And in that situation, I'm wondering
it's and he's going to a third team that is
sending stuff to Milwaukee because Milwaukee's not gonna want Butler.
I think you might be able to get there. It'd
be tight if it's a cominga sign in trade and
you're also trading Draymond. But I don't know, are you
ready to do that, because honestly, i'd prefer Yannis, Jimmy, Butler,
Steph than Draymond Yiannis, Steph.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna go same same, but like you can't.
Speaker 1: Probably I think Jimmy has more standalone value than Draymond.
That Drake Draymond certainly has more emotional value to the
Warriors than just right, even if.
Speaker 2: You wanted to move Draymond instead, you'd be looking at
three guys being earning in like the mid fifties that
is top heavy as shit.
Speaker 1: That is super top heavy. So it would have to
be Butler going to team and it's not gonna be Phoenix.
They don't have the assets to like facilitate that for anyone.
I just don't they have real stuff to trade. But like,
I don't think they don't have like Yannis level assets,
because this is going to be even if they're trying
to accommodate where Yannis wants to go. This is going
to be a bidding war.
Speaker 2: If they can turn in Butler. Like, now, wait a second,
they're because what they're gonna use the Butler trade or
the Butler contract to get honest?
Speaker 1: Like, who is the team that wants to give up
a bunch of stuff for Jimmy Butler while also helping
another team require you? Honest?
Speaker 2: No, I was, I was sort of that's that is Dallas, Dallas,
Jimmy Butler, the Bulls. The Bulls got looped into the
dr and Fox trade because we just need to dump
assets on you. And they were like, oh cool, thanks,
thanks for thinking of us. No, I was actually thinking
of someone something else here, because if you get Giannis
in there, presumably you want to pivot away from Draymond, right,
Like that's I would assume, so like you, that's when
you can make him available. And and what what my
thinking here is if you can turn Butler and stuff
into Gianni's and you can turn Draymond and stuff into
sack Lavine, I would not hate that.
Speaker 1: I just I think I probably agree with you, But
then you still kind of need Giannis. Isn't his best
at the five, Draymond can be his best.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that's where it is. I just I
think that team needs more floor spacing. I need. I
think that team will just you kind of like imagine
if it's Levine Steph in the back court and then
Gianna's just sort of handling everything else. Offensively speaking, That's
that's tough. Like that is extremely tough to guard.
Speaker 1: I want to mention a couple other teams. Miami is
just gonna be mentioned, But what is the You could
throw khalil Ware in there? Okay, fine, but unless you're
including Bam, you can only trade two outright first round
picks this summer. And I know Tyler Hero's value is better,
but Tyler Hero, Hanway Hawk is khalil Ware in two
first round picks and swaps? And I don't, well, one,
are they even throwing all that on the table because
what's left after that?
Speaker 2: Would Milwaukee even accept that?
Speaker 1: Would right?
Speaker 2: And that's what are the teams suddenly competed?
Speaker 1: Yes, so they're a tough one and something I can't
remember where I saw the report. This was earlier in
the year, but there was speculation that the Knicks acquired
Karl Anthony Towns to make it easier to pull off
a Janna's attemt Tokupo trade. Now, if you if you
look at that through the prism of saying Karl Anthony
Towns has more value than Julius and Dante DiVincenzo and
that Detroit pick which ended up being number seventeen. Sure,
I think that's fair to say. I just don't. I'm like,
I don't even know what That package has a ton
of moving parts. There's like three and four and eight
teams involved, and Giannis has to really push to go
to New York. I didn't see that logic, although Jannis
and Jalen Brunson would be fun as hell. And then
if I'm the Knicks, like I think most teams regard,
if you're trying to get picks to send to Milwaukee
ors Milwaukee just want players, They're probably being insistent on
getting ogn Andobi over mckel bridges. At this point, I
don't know, and I would prefer to pair Og with
Jannison Brunson. And even then, sure we talk about a
Knicks team doesn't take enough threes, Johannis coming in and
you're losing Karl Anthony town To it's I was just fascinated.
I couldn't bring myself to figure out the logic behind
how does a Karl Anthony trade make it easier?
Speaker 2: Aside from well, don't don't move him. Don't move him
because he is a three point threat. Yeah, like ANNOPI
Mitchell Robinson, that probably works financially.
Speaker 1: And then what what like that is getting you there?
Speaker 2: That's where that's what that look. There's a reason I
brought up saying that somebody else my first one, because
they have picks like that has to be one of
the major demands from Milwaukee, I have to assume.
Speaker 1: So I would tell you would hope if it's not.
I have some questions about the process. Same same, Uh,
Are there any what about I think can Denver do anything?
Speaker 2: That's the fun one, right, that's the fun one, because
you want that to be like Michael Porter Junior and something.
Speaker 1: They can trade one first round pick. I think there's
they have some swaps they could give up in there.
That's I mean. But you're also you're including if they
asked for it, you're including Christian Brown and or Peyton Watson, Right, yeah,
Jane Watson might as well go. I don't really see
a pathway to him and Yan is playing together, right,
But even do they have the financial stomach for us.
You're gonna pay Yiannis, Gordon, Jokic and Murray Yah make
more than MPJ, that's all like, that's you might be
able to offset that money next year, but moving forward
that's going to be pricey.
Speaker 2: I think right now they absolutely have the stomach forward.
For one reason, they are being slaughtered in the media
for never having given Nikola jokicch an All Star like
that is all everyone is talking about. This would send
a message. And look, if there's a guy worth his contract,
it's also yanis onder the Gombo so I honestly, I
don't think NBA team's mind playing paying a ton of
money as long as they get production in return. That's
obviously outweighing, you know, the compensation level. You don't have
to worry about that with Jokic or Yannis or Luka
that some of you know, some of those guys, if
you pair them, it becomes a question, right, where are
you going to get the same production out of this guy?
Like I Shanna's going to trickle down from thirty and
twelve and six to twenty three nine and four. Is
that worth it? Like, that's some teams have that line
of thought, right, I don't think so personally, because he'll
be playing with Jokic. If anything, I see a scoring go.
Speaker 1: Up at that point, though, it's can you keep Aaron
like functionally? And to the Nuggets' credit, I don't mean
to gloss over this. They've paid players. It's they've kind
of they more so cheap out if it comes to
keeping front office executives. So I don't I'm with you
that they would pay it. But Aaron Gordon and Giannis
on the same team where Yokic is your center, I'd
be I'd be fascinated. But like someone needs to take
threes there, so you're probably looking at moving. If you're
moving MPG, you're then moving Aaron Gordon to get shooting.
I'm or at least trying to write.
Speaker 2: I would have traded Gordon over Porter, but the contract
is just not big enough. Not right now.
Speaker 1: Do you think that Gordon has more even more? Does
he even have more trade value than MPJ?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so.
Speaker 1: I think You're probably right. Maybe the Bucks would value
the stability of just having him under contract, but they'd
also probably be leery of what we've seen what this
guy looks like with out Nikola jokicic and we certainly
do not have Nicola Jokic right so, And.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I think that's part of the calculus for a
lot of teams dealing with Denver, Like they're looking at
those guys and go, like, again, Jamal Murray. We've talked
about this on this podcast before, Like, are we sure
that any team that wants to trade for Jamal Murray
is thinking, oh, yeah, he'll be better without Jokic? Like,
is anyone thinking that? I doubt it.
Speaker 1: No, are there any like Super dark Horse or fun
teams you want to throw out there that we haven't
mentioned yet? No, I don't think they would do it.
Detroit would be fun, so they're himing.
Speaker 2: Trod would be fun. But but like again, what's the package?
Do they have enough? Like what makes sense?
Speaker 1: I mean between I'm not saying you include all these guys,
but they have all their own picks j and IVYSR. Thompson,
Ron Holland there's I think they could put together a
real offer.
Speaker 2: Cadan Giannis would be fun And if that's the nucleus
you can build around that, those guys you probably extend
his window a little bit gianness by pairing him with
a younger secondary star as well.
Speaker 1: It doesn't interesting kind of the like maniacal competitor that
might think in those terms too. Mm hmm, maybe not.
Maybe he wants to go to a Golden State or
a Lakers or in New York where he's just fine,
like oh, Houston or okay, see San Antonio like they have,
but Wenby would be him thinking like that, where it's
San Antonio is not an undesirable market, but players traditionally
aren't trying to force their way there necessarily. But then
the Iron Fox did because Whenby exists, and what have
we heard everyone say on and off the record that
he's not gonna He's not gonna be the last player
to do that.
Speaker 2: Right, right? Someone DM me after the damish episode bringing
up the Bulls with through the the Spectrum of Buslas,
and I was like, that's just not enough because while
he's have to send something else to Chicago and right,
exactly right, and but and then I started like work
shopping it and that's kind of why I came up
with the with the whole thing where it's so tough
for like these teams that are stuck to go anywhere.
Like let's even say, no, I'm just gonna use the bulls.
And this is an example. Let's say they removed or
not well traded out all of their best players and
all the draft picks that they own, all their draft picks,
all of all of the draft picks. Where the hell
does that leave them? Right back at the beginning, Like,
it's those teams that I'm really fearful it's going to
like make a strong play on Giannis and then without
realizing they just kind of biting their own tails.
Speaker 1: Do you think there's any chance that Danny Ainge would
just they have all these picks that he just might
be I don't know who they're trying, like Perry Giannis
with Lowry market it would be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And if let's say, are they one of the teams
that if they won the lottery they could build a
package for Giannis without including that Cooper Flag pick, because
the it's like Jannis and Lowry and Cooper Flag that's
the team.
Speaker 2: Hm hmm. Can we just acknowledge how odd it be
if he ended up in Utah of all places like that?
I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun.
Speaker 1: But like what, I favor it when, Like I loved
it when Cleveland came out of the woodwork and got
Donovan Mitchell. I loved that because I want it. First
of all, I want to see those teams take risks
and then be rewarded for it, like Donovan Mitchell resigning
in Cleveland.
Speaker 2: That's true, That is true.
Speaker 1: Yes, I just the Jazz don't The Jazz don't have
like the guy yet. And Yannis wherever he goes, that
team is already gonna have at least one of the guys.
Even if they view Jannis as the best of the guys.
Speaker 2: I mean, I still view Laurius a four. I know
he's playing the three a lot. I still think he's
best at the four. John Collins is exclusively a four.
So like I, if you get Yiannis.
Speaker 1: There, healthy Taylor Hendrix, Jannis and Lowry, they can all
play together.
Speaker 2: You know, I am glad you bring up Taylor Hendricks
also a four. They've got a lot of forest there.
Kyle Philipowski's a four.
Speaker 1: Kyle Pill you talk about pure fours, Kyle Philipowski might
be the purest for.
Speaker 2: Right, Like they have so many power forwards coming through
their ass right now, It's like how how the hell?
Like it has to come with a plan, Like if
you get it has to come with the plan, Like
how do we actually round out this roster?
Speaker 1: Boston wouldn't look at Yiannis, right, they would their second apron.
But like, what if it was just they're trying to
simultaneously lop off payroll without I guess getting too much.
More Like if it's Jaalen Brown and Porzingis as the
baseline and they're gonna take back less money, then oh
they can't aggregate. But if they finish under the second apron,
they could, right, just that's super I mean they could
in the off season, you could certainly work it. So
Giannis and Jalen are like basically at the same salary level,
So you'd basically be looking at the difference between Porzingis's
salary and you have to shed whatever it is that
gets you under the second apron without Horford getting older,
the christaps porzingis injury risk, and I wonder if like
you could play Gianness without Horford just bring him back,
and then they would use Jannis at the five. I
have no doubt about that.
Speaker 2: Right I mean, yeah, if you do, you want to
give Boston a stranglehold on the league for three years.
Speaker 1: A stranglehold would be can they game it where it's
Porzingis Andrew Holliday and they get Joannison figures they finished
beneath the second April.
Speaker 2: I also have a double standard there, because let's let's
face it, if he goes to OKC, that's probably the
same thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying. I think we've covered all the Is
there a team that if they won the lottery, you'd
want to see them dangle the number one pick for
your honest.
Speaker 2: Oh right, let's see, let's go to the tangathon.
Speaker 1: Why is it Portland?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fun. That could be fun with Denny there,
with Scoot there, But that'd be fun. Yeah, you'll pivot
off Jeremy Grant immediately finally have an excuse for it.
You still have Simons, You'll have the role player shade
and Sharp is still there. That's fun. I like that one.
That's not bad.
Speaker 1: But they feel like a dark horse. But I don't
know if that's the right move for where they are.
Speaker 2: Here's a fun one.
Speaker 1: Oh, I know I know the team. You're gonna say
it because I was gonna bring them up next. I
bet you I can guess. Yeah, all right, the rators
no oh, what is it Lebron? Look just Lebron for
just for no, Well, we'll figure it in.
Speaker 2: Like look, Rob Bolingka, Like I know that basically Clutch
owns the Lakers at this point, but like he did
move ad and that came without warning, right.
Speaker 1: Right, But Lebron has a no trade clause, all right,
he does.
Speaker 2: I keep forgetting like for some reason, I still have
it stuck in my head that Bradley Beal is the
only when the league who does that? Who has that?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 2: Fair enough?
Speaker 1: And I guess if there's a I mean, if Milwaukee
just wants to put butts in seats and Lebron is
wanting to come to Milwaukee, but if you could send
Lebron to they're running into It's Golden State, would be
the team that he probably wants to go to. Are
they sending enough stuff to Milwaukee to make wait?
Speaker 2: Or New York? He's always had his eye on New
York as well.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie after watching these Knicks and how
difficult they make life on the offensive end at times
for offensives in the top five I'd favor I probably do.
Speaker 2: I wonder if you could actually go to Lebron and say, look,
we need to talk. You probably can't. Uh, look, we'll
trade Browny alongside you. Don't worry, You'll stay together. That's
a promise. No, Milwaukee wouldn't do it. Milwaukee wouldn't do it. Like,
what's their incentive?
Speaker 1: Would Dallas dangle Anthony Davis for honest or are they
trying like all the picks with Derek Lively and salary?
Speaker 2: No? But why would you do that. I'm trying to
get I'm trying to get Giannis in with a yar here.
I'm trying to get Giannis along with Luca. Come on,
help me out.
Speaker 1: That'd be fun. It's not possible, I know. Is that
a real offer? Though? Dallas, Derek Lively, all the picks
they could offer, and then you're step laddering your way
there with salaries. Probably not a d Ad and Giannis
would be a defensive terror Ad becomes a vive again,
so he probably what's the trade?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's gonna be pissed. So that's not gonna work
out for anyone. You still have Kyrie, but he's going to.
Speaker 1: Be back like mid next year, might be able to
see the vision. I think in that circumstance, look like.
Speaker 2: We still don't know what state he's going to be in. Kyrie,
I mean, that's risky. I don't like it.
Speaker 1: That feels very I mean, especially because they were coming
off Kevin Durant a case, is coming off an injury.
That feels very Brooklyn Nets esque, like it's a different
side of the floor where it gets interesting. But it's okay.
These dudes are a little bit older, and Kyrie's obviously
older I think than anyone on Brooklyn was at the time.
But I it wouldn't I mean, I mean, that's probably
not even one of like the top five offers that
would be on the table. I guess Derek why and
all the picks, so it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2: Again, I keep going back to the Spurs package.
Speaker 1: I think we talked about that. We don't need to
go back.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I know, I keep going back to that
being the best one and that's the one you have
to beat.
Speaker 1: I think that, okay, See or Houston are the only
teams that could beat it. But I think I mentioned
them before. A team that could beat it. It'd probably
be prided on where they end up in the lottery.
But Toronto, right.
Speaker 2: All right, so let's get into Toronto. You brought them
up a couple of times.
Speaker 1: I think it's if they won the lottery, could they
talk themselves into a right, here's this pick, we could
move other picks. There's some salaries like just between R J. Brenton,
Ingram could be part of the magic salary going out.
They've already kind of said fuck the three point volume
or floor spacing aspect of this. When you look at
kind of how their core is built right now, they
just have a ton. They have a ton of digestible salaries.
I would say.
Speaker 2: Instead of Inkram because of the floor spacing. Remember what
Scottie Barnes gives you, Giannis is gonna take a lot
out of Like the all aroundlessness of Scottie Barnes is
not gonna be as big of an asset alongside Giannis.
He's gonna stand there a fair fairly significant amount of
time with just his thumb firmly placed up his backside.
Speaker 1: I think if you had the number one pick, you
could maybe get away with Cooper flag and picks and
you're keeping Ingram and Barnes to pair with Giannis and
you're using the there's the Yaka Peertl salary, there's the
Archie Barrett salary, there's a manual quickly, but I think
he becomes super critical if you're bringing in Gianness. So
there would be ways for them to game in. We know,
like miss I's kind of had his eye, like at
least his side eye on Giannis for a while. M hm.
I don't hate the Gianni's Barnes pairing. I think that
Barnes could turn into like a better spot up shooter.
We've seen a little bit of it.
Speaker 2: Have we seen enough?
Speaker 1: You make the bet on talent figuring that one out
that would just be that would be one of the
more fascinating ones. Whe I wouldn't feel in me good
about him arriving there, but I wouldn't I wouldn't hate
it if they did it. Anything else you want to
mention before we get out of here.
Speaker 2: No, no, I I'm I think we went through half
the league, if not more, on this one, and I'm
still very much sold on my personal trade package. Nothing
that has been said has convinced me of otherwise.
Speaker 1: Sorry you nothing but humble why so why it's weird
to talk about in Houston and Okay see terms because
they're still in the playoffs. I do think if one
of those teams wanted Giannis, they would just be in
a position to go get Jannis over San Antonio. That's my.
Speaker 2: That's maybe maybe i'm as you have they have.
Speaker 1: I think any of the young players, the top end
young players the Spurs, even if they're putting Steph Castle
on the table, you're not beating shan Gun or Aman
Thoms And I'd argue they're not even beating the Jabari
Smith junior if he's on the table, and if Okay
he's willing to part with.
Speaker 2: Far Okay SE's the one, like Okay sees the one
that's That's the one where I agree they can go
in and get it. That's where it comes down to.
Do they want to give up Jadab? Like, yes, if
they want to give up Jadab and all the picks,
you're absolutely right, that's the one to beat h that
can't be beaten. That's the leader. The Rockets one I'm
just not so sure of. I still have a lot
of questions about their individual skill set as players. A
lot of these guys. This feels like a lot of
them have major warts. I do think the same can
be said off the Spurs players going out, but the
Picks package is pretty significant. And also I'm baking in
that I assume it's not going to be one of
those cold ass traits where Giannis has no idea where
he's going. I have to assume it's going to be
a conversation and I'm pretty certain if you're asking Gianis,
do you want to go to Houston or San Antonio,
He's going to go to the Big Fellow.
Speaker 1: We'll be interesting to see all plays out. You want
to tell our subscribers or they can find.
Speaker 2: You in all the work that you do, Yes, sir,
you can find me over at Blue Sky, at MSJ
and PA, where I share links to the Danish Pods,
my work with Yah Foods, the workout at Forbes and
and so on so and also of course used to
give the podcast or listen so also.
Speaker 1: Until next time and as always leaved with chat under
one the only the indelible Frank l. Kina