Speaker 1: What is up, fellasic Goos, I am Dan Valley coming
at you with the one, the only, the certified, fantabulous
Grant Hues.
Speaker 2: It's time for Hardware Knocks to gather everyone together and
talk about.
Speaker 1: The biggest questions we have coming out of the NBA
All Star Break. This is being recorded because we have
fun content plan for you during the NBA's little week off,
but it's being recorded before the All Star Game, so
we're not reacting to what All Star weeken looked like
with the NBA really tapping into the content creator, Well,
that's really overwhelming us with content is the plan?
Speaker 2: I don't know who. I don't know who's.
Speaker 1: Planning those things, but hope maybe went better than we expected.
These questions, though, are ever green in the sense of
we're still going to have them a few days from now.
How are you feeling, Grant as we get ready for
our All Star break break, but then also for the
final closing kick of the season.
Speaker 3: Just mostly I just sort of can't wait to see
what all the seemingly preteen influencers that I I am
not familiar with bring to the table and brought to
the table. It just maybe I should I should phrase
this like as if we just watched All Star Weekend
and we're like, man, that was some just some terrific
content creation and by people that I definitely know who
they are, right.
Speaker 1: Same, I think I've just come to look at it
as the All Star Weekend. It's not for it's for
a certain demographic. It's for younger people, which I think
is fine. But I do think the NBA is doing
a disservice by making so much of it about not
actual basketball. There's nothing in the rule book that says
the youths don't care about. The whole point should be
to promote the actual sport and their whole just like
really leading into the tiktokification but it doesn't have anything
to do with the actual basketball is bizarre to me.
And also it's stop trying that.
Speaker 2: I don't like the team versus World format. It's stupid.
Speaker 1: It made the selections and replacements just unnecessarily convlude. There's
players who are like on one team an now are
on a different team. I don't want to get into it.
Maybe it was awesome. Maybe these words just age so
incredibly poorly. I don't think they will. Let's move on
to our biggest questions draft style. You're going to get
the first pick because you just killed it on another
exercise that's going to be going live either before or
after this, and you did a hell of a job.
Speaker 2: So this is your reward.
Speaker 3: All right. Well, let's see, there's like kind of a
little batch that we definitely need to address that are
bigger picture. Uh So I'm gonna pull from one of those, uh,
just because I think I don't know, that's kind of
the most important stuff to discuss. So let's go Dan
with which Eastern Conference team has the most at stake
ahead of this offseason, which I took to mean a
non lottery division, So teams that one will actually be
watching down the stretch because there's a whole bunch we
can just sort of sorry that I'm going to tune
out for. Don't know which your approach is going to be.
Speaker 2: And I watched the Kings.
Speaker 3: Yeah you're well, first of all, you're fighting the question
because this is an Eastern Conference question unless the Kings
get relegated to the Eastern Conference, which is possible. I
suppose I'm taking this to mean down the street.
Speaker 2: You have to go to the East.
Speaker 3: Sorry, So you the way this phrase is ahead of
the off season and the full question. It's really just
kind of like, I do you disagree that this is
mostly about like based on how the season progresses from
now on to how it ends for this team, like
the most might change. There might be you know, the
stakes are highest that most at steak is right in
the question. But it's like this, this encompasses playoff performance
for me? Does that is that the same for you?
Or you just okay, it's not just like they need
to get this seed. Uh, and then we stop caring.
It's it's the whole deal from now till the end
of the league year basically, right.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's how That's how I approached it.
Speaker 3: Why isn't it your New York Knicks, who the owner
who never speaks came out and said that the finals
are just like we gotta, we gotta, we expect to
make the finals. Why is that not the answer?
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's not.
Speaker 1: I would say they are for sure candidate, but I
would argue they're limited in what they could do because
let's just say they get bounced from the first round.
What's what's the move you trade anyone you trade?
Speaker 2: You just get worse.
Speaker 1: Short of Joannice, iutent to people going full James Hardens
circa Houston Rockets in was that twenty twenty, twenty twenty,
doesn't know what?
Speaker 3: Who can say how many trade demands ago it was.
Speaker 1: But his most his most egregious one was not egregious,
but his most forceful one was the first one.
Speaker 3: Right, well, let's see the not the thunder one, not
thunder to rockets.
Speaker 2: That was not super much a request, that was just
they didn't want to pay him.
Speaker 3: Yea, they didn't want to pay him.
Speaker 1: I guess his departure from well it needs to be
James whole episode, by the way, power ranking, the seriousness
of James Harden's trader's request go on, and so short
of that happening, I just don't know what the Knicks
are support, Like, you don't have two tradeable first round picks,
But do you get better if you attach two first
round picks to Karl Anthony Towns for what and for who?
You're not gonna tade Jail and Jail and Brunton and
start over.
Speaker 2: My pick would be the Calves, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, that's why it's not the Knicks. I
was one I was kind of trolling you. And two
the only the only case you make for the Knicks
is that the stakes are high because any fall, any
significant disappointment sort of can only be remedied by a
very drastic move, you know, like it's not like they're
gonna tinker. So the stakes are high in that sense.
But to your point, they really can't like even whatever
qualifies as drastic for them, just as like how do
we get off towns? Basically, so it's not them before
I agree, it's the Calves. Do you want to we
got to go through the teams that it just isn't
we like the Celtics gap year found money, Like nothing
at stake here if they if they get swept in
the first round, everybody's like good season relative to expectations,
right right. Pistons more the fact that they're like if
they got smoked in the first round, it is there
anything at stake, because then that would just make them
do the move we thought they should do it that
like that then they'll go make the go for it move,
which good.
Speaker 1: We we have a question that kind of dovetails with us.
But the case for the Pistons would be this is
their best chance to win a championship.
Speaker 3: This is this is a take of years that I'm
really into. I really enjoy that like framing it that
way because it it doesn't feel like it could be right,
but it also could very very much be right, because like,
how often are you gonna just run away with a conference?
You know?
Speaker 2: Right? And it's harder to do this.
Speaker 1: The other thing is is every team that we've identified
as just they're still going to be there. Something has
happened where in two or three years they're not.
Speaker 2: At this level anymore.
Speaker 1: So you just look at the circumstances of the East
right now, Boston you said found money, maybe Jason Tatum
comes back, but this isn't gonna be peak Boston Celtics.
Even if you think Boston's the biggest threat. The Knicks
are just eminent. They were eminently beatable for the Pistons
last year, they just didn't they're eminently beatable now. The
Calves have been on fire even before they had the
best record in the NBA since like before the New year,
so this pre dates Darius Garland getting moved. There's also
just something about their playoff performances and even their durability
and their lack of overall physicality and pure wing depth.
Speaker 2: That's not a team I'm afraid of. Philly is such
a wildcard.
Speaker 1: Toronto is like they're better than expected, but they're not.
I'm not worry if I'm the Piston, I'm not worried
about Toronto. So there's that element of the East Orlando
not doing that. Orlando, by the way, could be another
candidate for this.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, like, there are a couple other
teams we need to talk about, not not on the
Calves level, and Orlando's definitely one of them, right because
everybody's were very much in the cycle of questioning the
Pallo of it all as a first option again, like
here we are questionings as an offensive coach, like all,
like they're what are they? As we're recording this, they're
in the play in game and a half out of
six and just not gonna win the fifty plus games
that a lot of people saw coming, and that was
the consensus.
Speaker 2: Are they the only? Are they the best alternative?
Speaker 3: Too?
Speaker 1: Because we're gonna talk more Pistons later, Yeah, is Orlando
the best? I think the answers pretty clearly the Calves
because of yeah, you just traded, you got so much older,
and this clearly is a move you're you were either
planning on doing something dramatic or you're worried about Donovan
Mitchell remaining committed to you. I think Orlando might be
the next best choice, though, unless you want to go
with Milwaukee.
Speaker 3: So that was the other team, and they're a lottery
team at the moment and probably will stay there. So
they don't technically qualify, but in a different way they
they do deserve some mention just because I mean, what's it,
what's at stake?
Speaker 2: I guess next contract man.
Speaker 3: His next like him coming back, getting hurt, trying to
get them into the tent spot or something like. There's
it's a weird set of stakes. But like for a
team that just isn't good, the potential fallout for what
happens over the last what is it, thirty games of
the year for them is weirdly significant. You know, like
they're not playing for anything really except your honest maybe
wants to I don't know how much that's posturing.
Speaker 1: But you could do the reverse too, of are they
playing to improve their draft pick in the sense they're
getting the less favorable of their own in New Orleans
is but New Orleans is so bad that the worst
you are, it ensures that you have a chance of
still getting a pretty high pick.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, they have a lot of stakes. Just I
wouldn't pick them just because that they're not like well
technically they're excluded as a lottery team, but also because
the spirit of this question is kind of like just
all the giant like neon arrows are pointing at the
calves like that that's the answer. We didn't even stalk.
You know. The hard and trade is obviously the main
and the desperation that seemed to fuel it with respective
Mitchell's future. The other thing is like they've disappointed in
the last is it to at least the last two postseasons,
and like had they done nothing with the roster, and
if they were first in the conference right now behind
the old Big four and everything was going great, if
they were on the same pace they were last year
for example, when they won sixty four, they would they
would be the answer anyway, like they would still be
the answer because they're very much in like the prove
it territory of their arc. And now just adding to
that is the desperation of the hard and move it like,
I don't think there's a close second. Like I mentioned
the Knicks just to bother you.
Speaker 1: I think they're candidate, but I think I picked the
Magic as number two. The other thing looming over the
calves it's not just the James Harden trade, it's what
do we do with James Harden after this season? He
has a player option. And also I respect what he
said in that press conference. They watched the full clip
where he said loyalty is overrated. He's one hundred percent right.
We could the way he's gone about some of his
trade demands are no doubt frustrating to fans. And then
some of the effort level we've seen from him on
the court, like during some of those What's trade demand,
the Houston trade.
Speaker 2: Demand, and like the whole Philly holdout stuff.
Speaker 1: But like he's right, So this is someone who's going
to follow the money now, so few teams have cap
space again after the trade deadline, where is he really
gonna go? But if they're not willing to if he
just picks up his player option, they're not willing to
talk about an extension.
Speaker 2: Do we get another James Harden trade demand?
Speaker 3: Don't, don't you assume that they prior to trading for him,
like laid out, Hey, here's what we're here's what we're thinking,
like contract wise, like that's that's got to be in place.
Speaker 1: That also contributes to what's at stake then, because now
you've committed to age thirty six James Harden. If this
isn't it, what if you get bounced in the first
round by like in the three to six matchup or
something that could happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean that that if that happens, and
we're gonna throw out a lot of ifs if that happens,
and if you didn't just predetermined Harden's gonna get like
I don't know what, is it gonna be more than
a one plus one? Can it? Is it? Is it
a two plus one? That would be insane if that's
if that's what was potentially on offer. But like he's
there for.
Speaker 1: The over thirty eight rules, so you can't get longer
than that, which I guess is a good thing. But
but I feel like any of his deals are gonna
have that it'll just have a player option in year
two and so you're still kind of.
Speaker 3: You're just you're immediately you're immediately on the clock. You're
immediately on the clock, like it just you're permanently on
the clock now for the rest of James Harden's career.
But but if if things go badly and whatever they
they they don't extend, they don't give him a new deal,
then then that trade starts to look even more like
we just didn't believe in Darius Garland like at all,
and we just want it out, We want the They're
not a flexible team because they have so many other
big contracts, but like they just decided they'd rather rent
Harden for a postseason, watch them walk, and just not
have Darius Garland's contract on the books. Like that line
of thinking becomes like more plausible, which is feels crazy
to me. But but if you end up there, then
maybe that really was more of a motivator than it
might seem. That there's some wild outcomes for the Cavs,
like a pretty broad set of possible like you could
do you just trade Donovan Mitchell, like I don't know,
there's like depending on how how gnarly the the.
Speaker 1: And then if you go that route, you also have
to decide, Okay, Jared Allen, you could probably move but
then you have to decide is Evan mobley Worth rebuilding around?
And it feels like the decision would have been easier
to make our Darius Garland and Evan mobley Worth be
building around.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that there's a lot that could happen here.
So it's clearly it to me, it's very clearly them
and Orlando is probably second. But it's but it's a
it's a pretty different set of circumstances.
Speaker 1: Let's go here, which Eastern Conference player to you grant
has the most at stake the rest of this season
non tabs divisions and we already recycled because you could
argue it's James Harden.
Speaker 3: But you could, Yeah, I mean he's gonna be He's
gonna land on his feet whatever happens. It seems like
he's kind of find honestly good for him. Yeah, uh okay,
so some of this will be So it can't be
Cad Cunningham, I don't think, because I don't I guess
if like, if he in the unlikely event that he
disappoints in the postseason, I guess you like, what would
be reevaluated then like, oh no, actually he's not, uh
the because what will happen is if the Pistons fail,
it'll probably because just the offense around him isn't good
enough and I don't feel like that's gonna get held
against him. So even though he's the best player on
the top seed, I kind of don't feel like he's
gonna catch and it won't deserve to catch most of
the heat. I'm kind of leaning, is it? I think
it might be Ben Carro Is that is that a
crazy take? Oh good, So tell tell me why because
that was the first name that jumps to mine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was for me too, and it's I think
some of the did work. Much of the discourse has
probably been overstated, and he has gotten more efficient, shooting
forty percent from three I think since the middle of January.
But when you talk about and think about the magic,
I think it's fair to say, well, it'd be nice
to see this group one fully healthy, but two perhaps
they just need a different coach to change up the offense.
But even if they decide to go that route, then
let's say they move on from Jamal Mosley.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: The cover for Palo Bank Cao is gone, and all
like people will then zero in even further on some
of this line up data that shows they're better when
Franz plays without him, and I think there's a ton
of noise that could go in there. I believe I'm
still highest on Palo Bankcaro long term of any I mean,
it's between him and Franz, but it does get tougher
to defend when this got when this team, which already
doesn't have a good offense, is worse offensively with him
on the court, and you're starting to have to deal
with that. It's good that he signed his extension when
he did, because I think that had he they waited
to restricted free agency to max him out, or does
he even get the max after this season, probably just
because he's played well overall, but now we're looking again
how many straight years it happened. Last year they were
better offensively without him on the court. And there are
so many things that I think he brings to the table,
just his meld of balletic brute force. You wish he was, like,
I don't know, ten to twenty percent more efficient from
basically everywhere on the floor. I just as a Palo
Bin Carol defender, I will continue to defend him, But
when you're dealing with three straight seasons of the offense
being worse with him on the court, and we can
point two excuses, including his own injuries, the injuries around him,
the lack of space and has done nothing for him.
The Magic have consistently rated in like the zero fith percentile,
basically complimentary floor spacing. But when you're making that big
a money, you get to a point where's figure it out. Yeah,
and the fact that that also contributes to why the
Magic have the most at stakes. I don't think it's
exclusively a Palo Bancaro thing. I don't know if the
entire supporting cast or I shouldn't say I don't know. I
believe that it is somewhat counterintuitive. I think it can work.
We've seen it from their top end unit. But if
you can't count on Sugs or Wagner, even ban Caro
to be healthy for a given clip, that gets messy.
Now let's throw an Anthony Black's extension eligibility into the equation.
Palo Bancaro just perceptionally. Again, I think too much of
the discourse veers away from the talent and sometimes actually
what's happening to where you look at it. Oh, Palo
Bancaro's first fifteen games or whatever. That narrative takes on
a life of its own and is applied to the
entire season. But the concerns also, as much as Magic
fans want to push back, they are absolutely real, and
I don't is there anything he could do to change
that before the offseason at this point?
Speaker 3: Well, so that's I'm glad you asked, because I think
for him specifically, it's the I'm viewing. I know the
question is asking, like who's got the most at stake
between now and the offseason, and that encompasses the rest
of the regular season. To me, the rest of the
regular season for Paolo just like doesn't really matter except
in so far as it like positions him to have
playoff success. I don't really care how he plays the
rest of the regular season because so much of his
perceived value and like it's not quite right to call
it the legend of Paolo Bankaro, but like the appeal
of him is that in the playoffs he's better, Like
he's more valuable. Like he's played two playoffs series. He
averaged twenty seven a game in one, he averaged twenty
nine point four in the other. Was more efficient than
he generally is. Did all the get to the line stuff,
did all the tough shot making stuff, all these things that,
at least with respect to the tough shot making, we
don't love as a regular season proposition, but that in
theory like highlights his value in a playoff scenario, because
those are the shots you gotta make, you know, like,
you don't get the easy ones. You need someone that
can be physically overpowering that will take him make tough twos.
And that's kind of his deal. And so far his
playoff effectiveness has just been greater than his regular season effectiveness.
So for him a bad playoffs then just sort of
allows us to say, oh, well, he's not even that guy.
You know, we we know the regular season questions, and
we know the big picture questions about like can he
anchor a good offense so far? No, but at least
at the moment prior to another playoff series loss, and
if he has a bad performance, you can say, like, yeah,
but look what he can do in the games that
really matter. He's better in those. What doesn't that count
for something?
Speaker 1: So he takes more threes and hits them at an
astronomical clip.
Speaker 3: Explain that yeah, if he falls short, yeah, forty four
ATMs per game, yeah yeah, so like and not really
losing any of the free throw volume in the process.
So if he does give you that, then the questions
just get louder about, like did we I mean, they
were always gonna give him that extent. He's a number
one pick, he's been productive, he had all this potential,
but like good, he's good. But then the question then
the questions get louder about, like is he good enough
to justify the position we have him in in our
like big picture plans like that. I can't really think
of another player that has all that kind of riding
on the next few months.
Speaker 1: I thought maybe, but if he's under contract for two
more years, I did think maybe Karl Anthony Towns as
just I also thought could one of the Wizards. Will
Dawkins says that Trey who has a player option, and
Anthony Davis, who wants an extension, are gonna play this season?
Speaker 2: Do they have?
Speaker 1: They certainly have something to prove, but that feels more
like a next season thing to.
Speaker 2: Me, not a this season thing.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's an interesting way to go about it, though, Like,
what if either Davis or young actually plays. How good
would they have to play for us to not just
say yeah, but these games didn't anything like. It would
have to be remarkable and it would have to lead
to wins, which the Wizards don't want. And like, I
think I think those are interesting names to consider. I
just I struggled, like, if Trey went, if Trey averaged
forty and twelve, you know, over down a stretch or something,
we would just I would just dismiss it. And I
might be wrong to do that, but I feel like
that would be the take on Like some I don't
think anyone would be like, oh my god, he's back,
you know, Yeah, suddenly the Wizards are guaranteed a top
five offense because Trey is Trey again. I think there'd
be some some like side eye at any at any
level of production for him. What about there's I mean,
Giannis could be another nominee for kind of the same
reason as when we discussed the Bucks.
Speaker 2: I had Joel Beide on my list too.
Speaker 1: I know he's already been paid, but it's sort of okay,
it looks like he's playing better, but can he do it?
We've seen him dominate in the playoffs, but can he
do it for an entire playoff run?
Speaker 2: Be healthy the whole shebang.
Speaker 1: The Sixers could be they having DJ, Edgecomb and Maxie
into them against being the team with the most at stake.
But Joel Embiid individually, I think he's been even when
he was bad this season, I thought he's done a
great job of just like adapting or at least trying
to to where it hasn't. He hasn't made it the
Joelle Embiid show. He's tried to fit in alongside everybody.
But if we go through the playoffs and he either
doesn't look right or it's just not the same even
in I don't want to say small bursts, but smaller
spurts a lot of questions. But it's also he's got
his money, he's signed his extension good, So I don't
know how much he could change the I don't know
that he could change any sort of narrative on himself.
Speaker 2: Regardless of how good or bad he plays.
Speaker 1: It'll act as I think, affirmation for one side of
the fence versus the other.
Speaker 2: Oh I knew he couldn't do it, or oh, we
knew that he could do this.
Speaker 3: I think that's a good one. What if what if
the Hornets come out of the plan and like, well,
then it all I guess they'd have to be eighth
and they see Detroit in a first round series, who
they played tough in the game where all the fighting happened,
all the fisticuffs took place, and LaMelo shows that against
this defense, I can get us to score at a
good rate in the playoffs. I think his reputation changes
a lot, right, Like you're answering a lot of questions
like in succession that at like a high degree of difficulty.
I would just say, if they don't need to beat
the Pistons, they don't need to upset the Pistons. But
if they take him to six or like even seven obviously,
and the Hornets score at like let's just say, like
the regular season clip, which would be a huge achievement
one in the playoffs two against the Pistons, and LaMelo
is like very good in orchestrating that. We would have
very different offseason conversations about him that we've had for
like the past four years.
Speaker 1: I think I honestly he did not come to mind
for me, which is shocking.
Speaker 2: That is a great isn't he doesn't.
Speaker 3: He always come to mind for you just in general?
Speaker 2: Well, doesn't he?
Speaker 1: His is sort of more of a the pendulum can
only swing one direction at this point, because I think
people just believe that he won't show up in the
playoffs or that he's not good. I feel like that's
the default argument, and so anything he does is sort
of gravy well, right.
Speaker 3: Because the Hornets, you know, when they were had that
nine game run, and the offense has just keeps climbing.
It's like, I feel like people are I don't know,
straw Manning here a little bit, but like it's easy
to be dismissive of that because they're still just like
barely a playing team and this is just the regular season.
Not a lot of teams are like getting up to
play them yet. They're definitely not at that stage. But
if you if you give a real like wor serious
postseason team like the Pistons, or even if it's like
Boston in a two seven, potentially I think, yeah, I
think you could really see. You could really see not
just like him recovery, like getting back to how he
was viewed a few years ago, but like even getting
a level above that where it's like, no, he is.
He is like the player that we said Trey Young
was in like twenty twenty one or however, whatever comp
you want to use, he's that guy.
Speaker 1: Now I think we could blow through him because we
told about the Cavs Ray Butt Evan Mobley. Just to
harken back to the decision of you kind of need
to prove that you can be the second best player
on a championship contender in the playoffs, and I think
he can be, and I think we've shown like just
the level he's reached. But also you also need to
kind of prove that well, if the Cavs do pivot,
you need to be part of like can you be
the centerpiece of the post pivot because Darius Garland's not
there anymore, and so it would only be you and
I could also make occasion like three different Hawks players.
Speaker 2: Is that weird?
Speaker 1: John Yeah, the offense without Trey has been even before
he left, like slightly above league average. And it's is
that enough to say that Jalen Johnson is the guy?
But you have to look at the context of the personnel,
which leads me to say, one, Jonathan Cominga is there
now he has presumably a ton of stake, but also
Zachary Resiche, like what is how important is he to them?
So three ball falling at a higher clip over the
past month and whatever, But is this someone that they
view as as what? What do you think the Hawks
view him back? Do they view him as the guy
next to Jallel Johnson? Or is that Dyson Daniels? Is
that on Yaka Kongu? Is it this year's draft pick
from the Pillions or Bucks?
Speaker 3: That's where I was gone. I think the good thing
about Johnson is that his contract is such that he
doesn't It's not a Bankaro situation where it's like, well
we have we've like staked our claim as like this
is the guy Johnson does not make so much that
it's like, well, we can't have anyone coming over the
top of him in the hierarchy. Like that pick, depending
on how high it is, might get you that guy,
but that makes your timeline weird because you're setting it
back another couple of years probably, and I don't know
what the appetite is for that. Jason Tatum is another
one where it's all kind of gravy, but like if
he comes back and looks like Jason Tatum I think
it just it at least makes it so this next
offseason we're talking about, like who's gonna beat Boston because,
like I think and if he depends, if he doesn't
look quite the same, we might have that question anyway
because we'll just assume he'll get all the way back.
But that that makes that makes it a little harder
to not just say who can beat Detroit. These are again,
these are lower down ballot nominees. Yeah, for sure, I
think we've hit the big ones.
Speaker 2: What's your next question? Pick?
Speaker 3: I think we should do this for the West, starting
with the team, So which West team has got the
most at stake for the rest of this season and
will include the playoffs. To me, this is harder than.
Speaker 2: The East because the West is better. Like you think
it's so low stakes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you determined, if you get quote unquote upset
in the West playoffs, it's like, well, because that sixth
seed was nasty and like might go to the conference finals.
So we're not going to like, you know, set the
whole thing on fire. I think it's easiest for me
to start with, like, who is not inconsidering for this.
It's not the Spurs. They're kind of piston zy in that, like, okay,
so if they disappoint in a certain way, they just
go out and make a trade to address that. The
core is obviously stupid young. No stakes there, the Lakers,
nobody expects anything. Then you get into the play in
team So Phoenix, Golden State, Portland Clippers, no stakes there, really, Like, well,
the Clippers might have some first round picks that get
scripped away, but what wasn't that anything to do with
how they Yeah, right, if you don't consider like actual
games played and like what might happen from the league. Sure,
I I don't know if this is the answer, but
why isn't it the thunder just because they are still
they're they bleed. We've decided they bleed this year because
they've had injuries and they've lost games and they're not
gonna win seventy seven out of eighty two if they.
Speaker 2: Don't.
Speaker 3: Was that what we seventy seven? Can I can I
take a victory lap a little bit on saying they'd
win sixty two and and and that's like right, that's
where they are pace wise.
Speaker 2: That was one of my best bets too, and they
might not clear it.
Speaker 3: Well, my best bet was the Bulls over thirty four,
and that's not looking so hot at the moment. But
they've they've.
Speaker 1: Described a hard wood knocks for all your NBA betting tips.
Speaker 3: Do not follow. I don't know. The Thunder just feel
like they're still the favorite. They still but they seem
vulnerable or more vulnerable than they've been in the past,
and like maybe some of the moves we thought might
be coming financially with like Hartenstein or Dort or whoever else,
things get fast tracked, they make an upgrade move. If
they don't, I don't know how far they'd have to
go or how soon they'd have to bow out for
that to change. They just I don't know. They jump
out to me, there's a I'm looking at two other
candidates here, one of one of which I imagine you're gonna.
Speaker 1: Mention first thought for this honestly, Okay, see on my radar.
Of course, I didn't even have them in consideration. I
have the Minnesota Timberwolves. I just sort of think we
know Anthony Edwards is that dude. But they've kind of
exhausted all that they can do without all Right, well,
we've burnt down a large chunk of the core around
Anthony Edwards to really change it up, and the fact
that they the honest thing, I don't know how real
that was, aside from okay, they tried to pursue him,
but you had zero first round picks to offer.
Speaker 2: You've given up on the Rob Dillinghan experiment.
Speaker 1: I think there's a level of commendability and not throwing
good money after bad and investing more in him when
it's clear it's not gonna work out with you. That
being said, that decision has been made. You add Iodusunmu,
you let Niki Alexander walk. If it doesn't, You've paid
Julius Randall, you've paid nas Reed, you've extended Rudy Gobert.
Speaker 2: If this doesn't work.
Speaker 1: This you've gone to consecutive Western Conference Finals appearances, and
so you're your margin for improvement is actually very slim,
because in a vacuum, any playoff campaign that doesn't end
in at least reaching the Western Conference Finals is technically
an abject failure.
Speaker 2: Now that progress isn't.
Speaker 1: Linear or I understand that, but if you get trucked
in the second round or lose in the first round,
which is a possibility, you've had some of the same
the crunch time offense with the turnovers, not getting enough
shots on those possessions, wanting to find that extra ball handler,
not being able.
Speaker 2: To do it.
Speaker 1: Do you look at moving anyone who's not Anthoney Edwards
And let's go back to the Kevin Durant pursuit from
them was real, like capslock real, and so the fact
that they've considered what felt like more realistic major changes
already coming off of two consecutive Western Conference Finals berths,
what happens if you don't even make it back there
this season?
Speaker 3: I was tempted to kind of throw out the like,
what's the difference then between them and the Knicks, because
they feel similarly like, well, so what do you mover
you're gonna make? That is the difference? Is that as
opposed to the Knicks, where it's like you try to
trade cat for like neutral value or to get off
the money. The Wolves have like McDaniels with would fetch
a mint like I do think even Rudy Gobert is
someone if you really want to just completely.
Speaker 1: Defensive player of the Year Rudy Gobaar depending on how
to win it.
Speaker 3: And then you might be like, we still want a
different identity. We want more offensive dynamism, so he's the
guy we move or Randall obviously is always someone there,
you know that shows up in trades like they I
guess if you're talking stakes, the Wolves have a greater
ability to like react then the Knicks do if things
don't go the way they want them to. So they're
so they're not quite the same in that sense. I
think that's a that's a good pick. Should we talk
about Denver? I mean, like they're one where it's like,
what would they really do?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so what are the steaks? But I guess if
you know, let's say Aaron Gordon's already in the midst
of his second like major hams ring injury this year,
this keeps happening. It's pretty popular and probably correct to
say that, like, they can't win it if he's not
healthy for a playoff full playoff run. So do you
start looking at I mean, Peyton Watson's restricted free agencies
coming up? Christian Brown is, like I guess, once he's
not a poison pill contract, you might think about trying
to turn him into something different, but I don't really
it's it's and it's also not quite right to say,
like they're their windows closing as long as Yokic and
Murray are there, but you could imagine them falling short
and then it's like, oh, I guess this was a
one title team, and I guess, like for Jokic, that
feels like a huge disappointment to this point, so there
would be a desire to change things. I just don't
know what they can really do if if they don't,
you know, meet expectations whatever those are, which, by the way,
like I don't know what I expect of them at
this point.
Speaker 1: They're a good call out too, because I can't remember
where the clip was from, but Grace Jay from the
What's in a Game podcast had shared it where there
was talk about Denver trying to stay out of the
tax next year, which they can't do that without absolutely
annihilating their roster, and so let's us.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming that was.
Speaker 1: Overstated or maybe it was misrepresented in what they were
trying to explain, but the bare minimum, depending on how
this season ends, you're looking at Christian Brown, Peyton Watson,
and Cam Johnson as what are we doing here, folks?
And I don't know how deep of a run they
need to make to convince ownership to say, no, we're
gonna run this back, pay Peyton Watson, and we'll be
in the second apron. I don't like what even a
Western Conference Finals appearance convince them to do that.
Speaker 3: And that's I mean, if it were highly competitive and
they maybe lost it because Gordon tweaked his hamstring again,
like then then you could just be like, well, you know,
we're still a contender. But yeah, I don't. I don't
know what level they need to get to. It's that
there in it. There's there's one other team that keeps
catching my eyes. I'm looking at it, and I think it.
I think we' probably agree it's the Rockets, because.
Speaker 1: No, they've got time, Kevin Rant thirty seven man, they
didn't need to do anything at the trade down and
they're good.
Speaker 3: I'm just imagining the scenario where it's it's a specific one.
So maybe this should just be a pivot to the player.
But if Thompson just in a postseason setting, it doesn't
have to be guarded. I think, like everything about Houston changes.
I think like then he goes from look at all
the amazing shit this guy can do to look at
the one thing he doesn't do well and how that
like cripples his team in certain situations, Like we've seen
that play out before. You know that that type of narrative.
It would be hugely disappointing if that's what happens. But
we've seen enough signs of that exact thing during the
season this year to where I expect any smart playoff
team is gonna make him be like a weak spot,
like an exploitable thing in a series. Yeah, and I
just wonder what Houston does what he does to come
at that, and will that be sufficient to keep the
narrative of oh, maybe he's not like he can't kind
of be a core piece here. We certainly can't pay
him like a core piece. And then you're into this
whole like, well who will somebody will get you know,
So he and they are an interesting one to keep
an eye on.
Speaker 1: Honestly, I find that more compelling than the Thunder as
a pick because you can like, there's it's not just him,
it's I'm trying with al prinshang gun. I'm trying to
think of the last player to whom I thought was
so much better defensively than his coach did, to where
you see I may Udoka not having Al prinshing like
playing weird offense defense games with Alt prinschangon and crunch
time when it's Al pern ching Gun is not the
best defender, but he's far from just like this turnstyle,
but he's got I mean, he may took a cause
out everyone. So there's that element of, well, how do
the Rockets feel what is al prinching Gun look like?
How much do they trust trust him?
Speaker 2: Maybe an even.
Speaker 1: Bigger element would be what if free Chepper just doesn't
look ready and like for the moment and we all
know he'll be ready for the moment this Reachepherd podcast,
what if jo Barter Smith Junior is wide open threes
hard point. It feels as if every non Kevin Durant
core piece on this team has something at stake in
the playoffs of if it doesn't go well for them,
they just won't be part of the Rockets's long term
plan anymore.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right, because we're past the Durant trade.
Was the official like, we're past the let's look at
all these guys we got, let's see like which combinations work,
and you know we don't. We don't really expect any
kind of massive success, even though they were the two
seed last year. But it's it's different now because you
made the Durant trade. You you didn't do anything at
this deadline, which I don't know what to take. I
guess I take from that you just didn't see value,
but like there was an opportunity to get better, you couldn't.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I've said this eighty thousand times this podcast.
You still I agree that they shouldn't have done anything nuclear,
but you can just get some shooting on this roster.
I don't want to hear about Fred VanVleet being out
is a big deal. But I'm not saying go get
your floor general of the future one because he's already there.
But two, I'm not saying go get Kobe White's been
the name that's come up a lot and for the cost,
it's well, why couldn't you have figured something out there?
Speaker 2: But you don't.
Speaker 1: What I can't wrap my head around is you don't
get to play like well, Steven Adams is out for
the rest of the year. That should not be such
a huge inflection point in the year twenty twenty six. Yeah,
And I also think even if it was when you
trade for a thirty seven year old Kevin Durant, I
know you extended him, You're not guaranteed. Just the way
age where Kevin Durant's fantastic, He's one of the fifteen
best players in the game. Still he's thirty seven. That's
not so I'm not saying they needed to make a
huge move, but not to even add a shooter just
to open up the floor for the rest of the
regular season to see, hey, what does this look like.
I was pretty disappointed that, especially when Dorian Phinney Smith
hasn't made a three since last season.
Speaker 3: Basically, yeah, they The more we talk about them, the
more it does feel like maybe it's partly because like
they are one because of like contract situations in a
position like Tari Easton is another one. It's not just
a men Thompson, but like they're in a position where
they they have to make decisions and the information they
get in this postseason is going to inform those like
pretty strongly. I would think, so that it's not just
that like, all right, we're at that point, you know
where prove it. It's like, no, they actually they got
to decide who to pay and how much, and they
might really change how much they think certain guys are
worth to them based on what happens the rest.
Speaker 2: Of the way their pressure feels.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the word is a little bit
more passive than a team like the Timberwolves, where if
the Rockets do something nuclear, you can because of the
information they get in the playoffs, it allows them to
do other things where maybe they get better you consolidated
these players and picks into Yannis or just someone else
too becomes available. Whereas the Wolves, it's what are they
supposed to do? But the way we talk about the Rockets, there's.
Speaker 2: More layers to it.
Speaker 1: But I just wonder if even if things don't go
according to plan, they have more options than the Timberwolves do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think with the Timberwolves, I guess if
the Timberwolves go out early, then maybe my opinion changes.
But I have the thought about them that I kind
of throughout there last year with the Knicks, and really
any team that makes the conference finals is just like
it's really hard to be better than that. And like
almost any move you make, barring like adding Kevin Durant
to the fifteen Warriors or whatever, is like there's a
pretty decent chance it'll make you worse, like just because
it's so hard to be better than the level of
a team that reliably makes the conference finals. Like, all
you really know about the Wolves over the last couple
of years is like, well, they weren't quite as good
as the Thunder. It's like, all right, like show me
the move that guarantees that that will change, you know.
But whereas the Rocket, it's the first round out, you know,
they aren't there at a point where it's like, yeah,
there definitely are things you could do that can get
you above that level, so the urgency to do them
feels greater. The Wolves are just sort of like, well, shit,
we're not like generationally good. Yeah, I don't know that
we can be better than that. It's possible, I guess,
but it's not easy or likely.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna lock in my pick with the Wolves. Who
ends up being your pick?
Speaker 3: I might have talked myself into the Rockets, I think,
just to be different, I'll say the Rockets, but the
Wolves are The Wolves are a good one because they
kind of need to do better than last year, and
that's gonna be really hard.
Speaker 2: I'll do what you.
Speaker 1: Did and keep the connective tissue going and ask which
Western Conference player has the most state. I did not, honestly,
Amen Thompson was not on my brain, and you might
have talked me into picking Amen Thompson.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's I mean, we talked plenty about him, so
we should probably look elsewhere. But he's pretty easy pick.
I mean, Shane Gooon is right there too, I would say,
like and so at least like I don't know the
maybe the the like wildly diverging opinions on his defensive
value will like reach some kind of consensus based on
what happens in the playoffs, and that changes sort of
how he is viewed. The fact that he's not on
a max and is viewed as a value, like regardless
of what you think about his defense makes the stakes
a little lower for him. But yeah, Thompson, Thompson's a
good pick. I'm struggling to think, like, you can't pick
a Cantarius Garland. Well how much is he going to play?
And how how how fairly? Also, yeah that's a good call.
Well no, well you know I'll return the compliment good
nomination because how much he plays is actually going to
factor into like what what how how he's viewed going forward.
Speaker 1: He would say the Spurs, I like, I like that
I have thought about it's one of their guards.
Speaker 3: It's one of them. It could be any of Fox
seven Castle or or or Dylan Harper. I feel like
we have a rough idea of what Devin Vissel is. Uh.
And that's not a knock. It's just like I think,
I get it. There's no scenario where Wemby has anything
at stake?
Speaker 2: Is there?
Speaker 3: Like I guess if if you flopped somehow, but I don't,
I don't know what that even is if.
Speaker 1: He doesn't, do you think people are gonna because he's
not dealing with a chronic injury. But if we now
go through yet another year where he wouldn't qualify for awards,
do you view that as more of an NBA problem
or is that does the discussion around Wemby then get
Are we ever going to see him play in sixty
five plus games?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: Both? But I like as you're saying, as you're laying
out like what the first few years of his career
might look like, I'd say, like Embiid rebounded pretty well
from that he won an MVP, but like he.
Speaker 1: Also played in seventy one as a rookie, so yeah
not yeaheah.
Speaker 3: I I I think with Wemby, I don't know if
we're ever getting past like if he plays seventy one
plus in like four years in a row, we just
shut up about the injuries, I guess. But like he
feels like someone that because there's not really anything else
to be worried about, Like that'll always be that the
durabil will always be the thing.
Speaker 1: He's such an anomaly. But it's just funny. Why is
it just because he's so tall? Because Kevin Durant was
a seven footer who's just super spindily as well, and
we didn't have the same Kevin Durant health concern until.
Speaker 3: He that's true, maybe it's not like maybe the concern
doesn't come from like height relative to position. It's just
raw height, you know, right, Like anecdotally, everybody always says
like if over a certain height, like you just those
guys never last, like people cite Ralph Sampson and like
Sabonis and like who else is he? I don't know,
nobody's like Sean Bradley in Manoopowl, Like those guys are
very different, like levels of players, but I don't know. Anecdotally,
it does feel like there's something to like, there's some
justification to being concerned about their health. I don't know why.
I think if we choose a Spur, it's just like
it's one of the guards, and are they gonna be
good enough to look like the second best player on
a championship team, which is like we're ahead of schedule.
Speaker 1: That I think you've I also think is it weird
for me to not have I would look at Castle
or Fox because it feels like those would be maybe
a team would insist on Dylan Harper being included, But
Dylan Harper to me, is a rookie, and so your
not if you're rendering a verdict on him after this,
it's not on Dylan Harper specifically.
Speaker 2: You've just decided.
Speaker 1: And maybe it's like this with Steph Castle too, you've
decided we have a chance to get johannest Or. I
don't know if they want someone else that ambles on
at the trade block and it's costing us Dylan Harper,
Steph Castle to where a lot of people had him
in the Fringe All Star.
Speaker 2: You're in love with Steph Castle too.
Speaker 1: His playoffs are that could that'll be and Daron Fox
as well, those are the two guys up because Daron
Fox could be the outgoing money in a trade for
anyone who's big, and that's just easy to fit in.
And then I think at this point I remain more
of a Dylan Harper. Maybe in the context of the
Spurs it shouldn't be Dylan Harper who I'm highest on,
but Steph Castle has proven the most already, so I
think he's the one that teams might insist on if
you were trading the Spur, if they're trying to get
It's like, that's a that's a different type of question.
I'm running an NBA front office. Dylan Harper is the
guy I'm after, and a lot of some of that
is he has a year extra left on his rookie scale.
But I'm also is this also just are we overstating
it then, because it doesn't that just feel purely a
honest discussion. What's the other player that gets you to
think about moving Dylan Harper or Stephcastle?
Speaker 2: Which by just fault, does that mean Darren Fox is
for the most pressure?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I we're kind of like trying to get there.
It's hard. It's because the Spurs again are just like
their runway feels and it feels like they're gonna be
great forever. So it's like how much urgent They're not
in the Pistons boat where it's like this might be
the best shot they have. Nobody thinks that about the Spurs.
Speaker 1: So I have two nominations from the same team. Hm,
I want to guess the team.
Speaker 3: I don't think I can. I'm gonna say the Wolves
are Are we going Wolves again?
Speaker 1: Okay, we've talked about this team already, but but I'm
looking at lou Dort and or case and Wallace because
you mentioned the thunder. There are other ways that they
could get their payroll undercut. I don't think is say
a Hartenstein's under pressure if his team option gets declined,
someone will just pay.
Speaker 2: Him mid level or more money.
Speaker 1: But Cason, Wallace and lou Dort are more entrenched, like
into Oakan, Like Casey Wallis's extension eligible. Lou Dort has
the team option of his own. They just traded for
Jared McCain nicolo.
Speaker 2: Topicch is back.
Speaker 1: You have aj Mitchell, you have other pim Jayalen Williams
of course other perimeter players, and you could say it's
Aaron Wiggins, right, say a Joe, but they just don't
feel fit like the spirit of this exercise. The there's
gonna be collateral damage at some point for the Thunder.
Some of that collateral damage is going to be this offseason.
Could it be one of these guys where they decide, oh,
we're not gonna extend caseon Wallace and we're not gonna
let this. They typically have not let it unless they
know like they're gonna pay, like they don't let this
ride out into restricted free agency, and so are they
gonna render casey laws might be my pick, just because
everyone's identified Lou Dort as that might be a form
of collateral damage. Maybe even some people have identified Alex
Caruso as a possibility of that caseon Wallace just being
extension eligible. And I'm wondering how much would I pay
him as someone running a team, and how much is
that going to diverge from what the Thunder might be
willing to pay knowing how they've handled these situations in
the past.
Speaker 2: He's kind of a sneaky candidate.
Speaker 3: So then do you think, I mean, do you think
that he needs to basically outplay Dort to sort of
be the guy they choose when when they when it
comes time to make a decision on that roster spot,
because they're they're different players, but it's like what they're
gonna ask them to what the thunder will ask them
to do is pretty similar, right, Like you're you'll never
be higher than the fourth option. You're you just got
a guard and you need to make open threes. I
guess Dort can guard different players just because of his strength,
But like, does Wallace have to be the better offensive contributor?
And like does he just need to be better? Like
does he need does not?
Speaker 1: Even it's not even just Dort, but if aj Mitchell
is getting minutes over him because he does a better
job of running the offense, and you know what Dort
will cost you at least through next season. You know
what Alex Caruso is on the books for. You know
what Aj Mitchell's on the books for. Kason Wallace is
the mystery box there, and you know what Jared McCain's
on the books for for the next two years after
This doesn't provide the same level defensive value, but if
he has the higher offensive ceiling, and that's like the
Thunder aren't gonna want for defense unless they'll get rid
of all like Dort and Cason Wallace, and I say,
then okay, we can have that discussion. It might be
Kason Wallace as the maybe the Thunder player under the
most pressure.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I could lock him in.
Speaker 1: You're ONM and Thompson shout out that I'm really sold
on that one.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, I'm trying to think who else i'd
even like throw up there?
Speaker 2: Does have anything at stake with free agency coming up.
Speaker 3: For his legacy?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 3: No, I what about do any Lake warrant mentioned? Like
it seems like Luca should have something at stake coming
off of like getting thrown away last year by the team.
Speaker 1: That I mean, okay, let's say the Lakers lose in
the plane or the first round.
Speaker 2: What does that Luca got his extended I don't know
what that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people are still gonna Oh, the timeline was always
this is the summer they're gonna start making.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Austin Reed.
Speaker 3: Haves that to fall back on. I wonder if like
maybe he maybe he doesn't hold up physically again, you know,
like he's got this nagging thing in a postseason series,
and then it gets easier to kind of start start
the clock on like is he ever gonna like, is
he ever gonna get like win anything, or is he
just gonna go down as someone that you know, you
can imagine that narrative developing if he has a bad
playoffs or he looks he gets picked on defensively, or
he looks out of shape or what like all the
Lucas stuff, which has mostly been kept at Bay this year.
But again, you're right, like nobody expects the Lakers to
do anything, so he'd have to be pretty disappointing individually.
Speaker 2: I have a good one, but I don't know how
fair it is.
Speaker 1: We are four games into the twenty twenty five twenty
twenty six Scoot Henderson experience in Portland. As we record this,
he's going to be extension eligible too. I've seen bits
of three of his games. I've been impressed with some
of the passing that I've seen. The turnovers have been
out of control, and I don't know how to feel.
I still don't know how to feel about him as
a score. His final two games heading into the All
Star Break kind of self contained only taking like taking
under ten shots a game, not playing a ton of minutes.
He's on a minutes cap seems to be around like
twenty right now. But when you look at their offense,
they've treaded water when Denny Avi is on the court.
I think if you want to sit here and say
we're fine with Denny Avia being the driver of our
offense as a contender, I still think there's room for
debate there. We have to see it in the playoffs,
which will probably I mean maybe they come out of
the plane and who knows, that would be another guy
that'd be interesting to see. But Scoot, like, for what
the Blazers need, he's supposed to be the guys, even
if you think Denny Avia is going to stay above
him or should be above him. If I knew they
were going to go to the playoffs, I might just
say shade sharp because he's had some crazy shot making,
but he's already got his extension. Scoot to me is
you have just kind of some injuries now in the
rear view, missed a ton of this season. You've never
really he improved last year, but it was never Scoots
averaging twenty five and five on shooting fifty five percent
from two and from three. Really for this protracted stretch,
he's got a but what do you give him? I
had this conversation with mort the other day Shade and Sharp.
I forgot how cheap his extension was. Does does Scoot
get the equivalent of that? This like you put as
what you've seen so far from the Blazers, Are you
putting that on the table for Scoot?
Speaker 3: I don't think you can. I don't. I think in
a weird way. Not in a weird way, in like
a very normal way, the sort of gradual like diminishing
expectations for Scoot over this two plus years of his
career brought about by injuries and really brought about by
like this guy has got a ways to go at
least early on. Makes it so like I don't even
think I don't even think anyone expects him to get
like a to get paid like A certainly on a
high end starter or you know, I like what, like
what's his pushback gonna be? Like he can't point to
anything other than draft pedigree to say, and Shadan Sharp
could kind of point to some of that.
Speaker 1: And he's making between twelve and thirteen percent of the
salary cap, and it was four for ninety, which is
between twelve and thirteen percent of the salary cap. I
think because of Scoot's passing, you could talk yourself into
four for one hundred, But that's can you even talk
yourself like into you know what, like the idea of
Scoot I still, oh, maybe not because of Sharpe's physics.
Speaker 2: I don't know this.
Speaker 1: And you know what, Scoots my Western Conference pick that
this is just this is it for him?
Speaker 2: It's not.
Speaker 1: And maybe it's not because you could just go into
next season and then he has restricted free agency coming.
That's say there's a lot of noise. Then there too,
Damian Lillard's coming back because Drew Holliday is still on
the team. How does that dynamic work with Dennyaffia? The
runway is clearer for him right now just by virtue
of Damian Lillard not being healthy. The Damian Lillard shadow,
even if his role is gonna change, that's gonna eclipse
a lot of stuff. And so if I'm scooted this
like this closing kick of the season is pretty big
for determining not just what type of player he is,
but his overall future in Portland.
Speaker 3: I think I think, to me, there's almost nothing he
could do that would make the Blazers giving him an
extension a responsible decision. Oh, I think.
Speaker 1: I think, like, well, what if he closes the season
strong and signs the Shane Sharp deal, Okay, then that
would be a responsible number probably, Like but I think
for for him, I mean, he wasn't like he.
Speaker 3: He was like expected to be really good this year
until the hamstring happened, and then it's like, so, if
you're the Blazers, how do you go into this offseason
having any idea in regard less of what he does,
of like what to expect next year. I don't know.
Maybe that's unfair, but part of it is too. Restricted.
Free agency is like such a such a team friendly
thing now more so than ever where it's like, yeah,
he might be mad, but like you still hold all
the power, right like and that'll be great. The cold
calculated way to treat this as like it's great if
he looks awesome. If I'm Portland, I'm still just like,
there's no based on the last three years, there's just
no way I can give you extension money right now.
I need I need a full season, Like I just
got to see it, does.
Speaker 1: That lower the stakes then of the rest of this
year for him or doesn't heighten him in the sense
that your team doesn't believe in you, you don't want
to lower that belief even further.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's got stakes going the other way where if
he's just bad.
Speaker 1: And by the way, they're going to play meaningful games.
This team is going to be in the play in
But just so, like what if he get like you
get in what if you get into.
Speaker 2: The playoffs and he looks awful, then it's very bad
for him.
Speaker 3: So yeah, there is a little bit.
Speaker 1: Of the playoffs and he looks great. You're not gonna
consider it like the playoffs are. I don't sample, but it's.
Speaker 3: Sharp number if you if you, it would be it
would be a fun thought exercise to just say, like
you decide today, just does Scoot get the shade and
sharp numbers or not? Like what what Portland would say
or what Blazers fans would say. Be very curious as
to the as I'd be.
Speaker 2: Curious to know that.
Speaker 1: I want you to file this away, not to answer
it now, but when we do world eventually you off
season questions, does a restricted free agent get an offer
sheet from an outside team this year because we haven't
seen one in a few seasons since Paul Reid.
Speaker 2: Don't answer it. Now we have to file that away.
But I think that'll be an interesting discussion.
Speaker 3: Yes, I agree. I'm already thinking of possibilities there.
Speaker 2: I'm locking as my pick. I think you are. You're
going with am and Thompson.
Speaker 3: I got to Yeah, I got to stick with him
on that one.
Speaker 2: The answer could be read sheepherd, but I'm not. I
just have so much faith in him. It's going to
be fine.
Speaker 1: You're up what you're now. Now we're leaving the stakes,
the stakes bubble.
Speaker 3: Now we're in the like Pope section here. So I
went ahead and highlighted this one and maybe it'll be quick.
But I'm kind of curious, like, what just just to
discuss this with you, because we haven't talked about it.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: The Bucks shut Giannis down and not let him play
even if he gets over this calf injury, comes back
and says, guys, I only do it one way, and
I'm gonna come back and play really hard and we're
gonna try to win games because I'm honest and my
competitive integrity is cannot be contained. So you're the Bucks.
I'm honest, I'm healthy, I want to play. And let's
say you've lost god knows how many games in a row,
or like eight out of ten, nine out of ten,
you're really making inroads to improving your lottery position. What
what do you tell him?
Speaker 2: You have to shut him down?
Speaker 1: And so my justification here would be if you didn't
straighten this out with him before the trade deadline, because
there's no way he said he wanted to stay in
Milwaukee thinking that the Bucks have a chance of winning
a title this season.
Speaker 2: There's there's none.
Speaker 1: I'm all for self belief in professionals, but but look,
they have plus five point four per one hundred possessions
with him on the court.
Speaker 2: That's great. The defense has still been shaky overall.
Speaker 1: I just you're so Ryan Rollins, great story, AJ Green,
great store, But like you're a team that is so
dependent on Kevin Porter Junior and end or camp Thomas
in any way, shape or form. I just can't take
seriously as a contender, and I don't think Giannis would either.
So there has to be an agreement in place that no,
we're gonna shut you down, and especially if you're still
outside to play in organically he's And the other thing too,
is he's already been disqualified from the NBA Awards ballot,
so you're not messing with that. He's not making an
All NBA team this year. What does he missed twenty
three games so far?
Speaker 2: He crossed that. I believe should double check.
Speaker 3: I think he's played thirty because I know they're fifteen
and fifteen with him.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, then they're definitely there for then he's for
sure not eligible.
Speaker 2: So what are you give Giannis?
Speaker 1: But he's gotten injured so much with these calfstrains, why
risk having another one? I think they will and they should,
I guess it if they go on to maybe really
post All Star break, if they just open up with
a five or seven game winning streak and now you're
just firmly in the play in. I just look at
the teams in front of them. The Bulls are the
only one that are trying to lose. I would think,
are the Hawks or the Hornets or the Heat or
the Magic gonna be worse than the Bucks?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Moving forward?
Speaker 3: No, the answer is simple. You can't take minutes away
from Musman Jang. That's as the Bucks are reoriented around
a new star, and you can't mess with it. I
think I think the I agree with you that, like
you just it's a hard nobody like you can't like
you can't come back, whether we intend to keep you
or trade you. Another calf injury in meaningless games is
like insanity. We can't have that happen. Do you think
his profession too, that he intended to come back and
play was like performative and designed to get the Bucks
to trade him? Like was that part of the like
I'm not asking to be traded, but just so you know,
I'm gonna come back and fuck up your plans to
be bad if you don't trade me. Do you read
do you read it as that a little bit now?
Or is it just he really is sincere about like
because there's a way to be honest, as totally sincere
and like that's way to go man or as like
actually like he's really manipulating the Bucks in a lot
of ways and he's just not doing it super overtly.
Speaker 2: I I honestly don't know anymore. I can't.
Speaker 1: It's cool that it seems like he really wants to
win in Milwaukee again. I fully believe that I want
to know if he believes that it's possible. I still
just have skepticism there, and I think the only vision
you could have sold him on is we have first
round picks to trade this summer.
Speaker 2: And so I don't.
Speaker 1: I think that inherently then lowers the stakes of this season,
and he needs to understand that. I get that he
wants to play and he's wired differently, but if if
he finishes the season playing in most of the games
and they are going for it, and they finish eleventh
or to get into the play in, I think your
point is then validated to where it's just what, so
now you've lowered the value of this pick that's coming
in that I presume you sold him on we're going
to have this pick, two more picks to trade. But
I'm also not in favor of if he's healthy, don't
play him. But this is someone who's dealt with enough injuries,
including during the playoffs, to where I would say, hey,
you're off. Not the worst idea.
Speaker 3: That's the thing with him, specifically, given his age, given
the recurring legs stuff, it's like it's it wouldn't be
a it wouldn't be a Jaron Jackson Junior, like, well,
let's have this surgery, shall we? For the Jazz. It's
it's very much like, no, no, this is we're concerned
about this and whether we want to keep you or not,
like you just need to be healthy, like this is
a real So yeah, I think just to we both
kind of said it, but like if he is healthy
enough to play, you've got to figure out a way
to just not let that happen because it doesn't serve anybody.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with this question, and this is where
I'll get off my Piston stake. I think which contender
will regret not making a bigger trade more grant the Pistons,
the Rockets, or the Spurs. Notably, both the Rockets and
the Spurs did jack shit. The Pistons traded Jade and Ivy,
they had that pick swap with Minnesota, and they also
got Kevin Herder.
Speaker 3: I mean, do you want to get your Piston's sake off?
Because unfor the thing is, I'm going to agree with you,
So I would like to seed the floor to you
on why it actually is the Pistons. I love this take.
Speaker 1: I think the ceiling on what the Spurs and the
Rockets could have done.
Speaker 2: It is higher because of some of their pick equity.
Speaker 1: Where you look at Okay, Spurs, picks aren't valuable, look
at some of the teams they can swap with in
certain years. Plus you have not that they're spendable, but
because you have Fox, Harper, and Castle.
Speaker 2: You could envision trading one of them.
Speaker 1: Where the Pistons it's all right, you can't trade Duran
definitely not trading k could.
Speaker 2: You trade one of us?
Speaker 1: Are in Ron Holland and then the Rockets just have
extra picks and they kind of have young core members
to spare.
Speaker 2: With the Pistons.
Speaker 1: I believe that this season is going to be their
best chance of winning the title with this core. And
that's not because I doubt that the Pistons are going
to be able to stay good for a while. I
just think the East is going to be harder. And
it also speaks to a Western conference to me that
while there are a bunch of teams that I could
envision coming out of it, or I could say they
would be the second best team in the East, free
and clear. That's kind of part of the point. There's vulnerabilities. Ever,
look at the inconsistency of Minnesota. Look at the health
of Denver right now, look at the health and some
of the inconsistencies from OKC, including J Dubb, like finish
it when Ja Dubb looked like J Dub and then
aggravates the hamstring injury right before the Hall Star break.
It's are the Thunder I don't They're not cooked, but
if what is going on here? Yeah, So it's not
just about the East. It's that I could see next
year the Rockets, the Spurs and or the Thunder are
all just gonna be better. And this says nothing of
the Lakers with cap space in a summer when only
two other teams are gonna have cap space.
Speaker 2: And one of them is the Bulls.
Speaker 1: So I look at this Pistons core and I say,
it's not about doubting their viability long term. It's the circumstances.
You're gonna be in an East with a healthier Celtics,
a healthier Pacers team that after getting Zubots, even if
you don't believe in their title, wind will being that long.
The next two to three years are gonna be difficult.
And what you could have done as the Pistons if
you could have added a Michael Porter junior and it
cost you to first round picks. If you could have
added a Trey Murphy, I don't know what the pick
equity would have been. There someone better than Kevin Herder.
This easily could have been named as not just the
Eastern Conference favorite, which you probably should be right now,
but because you're just so head and shoulders above everybody else,
But where do you rank in the overall championship picture?
Their offense, I do not trust it in a playoff context.
I don't think that there is going to be enough
proven shooting. Some of their finishing around the rim has
been all over the place. And the things that you
do to get you by in the regular season, we've
seen a lot of it with remember those Grizzlies teams,
even like the current sort of iteration of the Rockets,
some previous Knicks teams, or even some of the ways
that the Knicks still play offense. Piston's super talented Kay
Cunningham is great. The season that Jalen Dern having is insane.
They could get better between, They will get better between
this season and next. Their championship odds are just going
to go down, and so I'm not I don't want
to be prisoner of the moment, but in today's NBA,
I feel like you almost have to be with your
championship windows, where they don't have just a five percent
chance of winning a title by virtue of being the
Eastern Conference favorite. It's more like a twenty five percent
chance of winning the title. And to me, you're you
should have been obligated to not throw four first round
picks on the table, do something stupid to get lowry
marketing or Trey Murphy short circuit your future. But it
needed to be more than look at this pick swap
and Kevin Hurter.
Speaker 3: So I'm glad you made the point that you're not saying,
because this is a key distinction. You're not saying the
Pistons won't ever be better than this, because I think
we agree, like, no, they're young enough that they they
probably will be better than this. It's just that their
chance to to use the talent they have to win
a title won't be better because of the circumstances. I
think that's I think that's interesting. I think that's right.
I think that's nuanced. A couple of things to add
I always think I never get on board with the
logic of to use a recent example or a contemporary example, Well,
the thunder are so good, Like what's the point of
us making this? Of make it? They're too good? Of
like we can't compete with them, like let's wait it out,
or let's keep the powder dry or whatever, like cause
that was going around a little bit early in the
season like that or that that line of thinking. I
don't agree with that. I think that makes more sense
than the reverse of it, which is the situation the
Pistons are in, which is that like look at like
Indiana's down, the Calves are very questionable. The Celtics are
kind of like, well look at us here. Who would
have thunk? Like this is the reverse situation where it's
like we have an opportunity to just capitalize on weakness
around us. We're not worried about like matching a strength
of another team or like being dissuaded from doing something
because we're just gonna run into Team X. It's the opposite.
It's like nobody is in our way, Like now is
when we try to get even better, because this is
just this is a little it's not a window in
the conventional sense we use it, but it's like we've
got this little crack we could squeeze through right now.
Maybe we don't think we're as ready as we may
be later, but it's like there's no guarantee that this
that that you will be better. We think they'll be
like all that stuff like this is when you go
for it. And I think a good point of reference
is the is the trade that the Pacers made. The
Pacers gave up two first round picks for a guy
that like they just want next year in Zubots. Like,
so you're telling me that a team that's gonna be
struggling to win twenty games gives up two firsts that
will not help it at all this year, and the
Pistons won't do that, and we're not And like, Zubots
is a good player, but like maybe MPG relative to
like what he could provide this specific team matters at
least as much or is at least as valuable to
the Pistons as Zubots will be to the twenty six
twenty seven Pacers. So the fact that the Pacers go
do that and the Pistons don't do something similar is
just like it's it's not like maddening, but it is
frustrating because it's like, you guys are here. The Pacers
aren't here right now. They're hoping to get back and
they're preparing as if they will. It's not a guarantee
the Pistons are. You're right there, like, just just do
the over. To call it an over the top move
is even like overstating it because we're not saying, go
trade for a superstar. Just go get the guy that
upgrades a clear position of need and hope that's enough
to beat a weak field. Like, yeah, I the Pistons
are the only answer to this. There are other teams
we could talk about, but it's like they're just the
runaway winner.
Speaker 1: I think even when we recorded our post trade deadline
pot I did make the case of the Pistons could
view themselves as the thunder wanting to go through another
playoff round. But they I they got it last year.
The more I munched on it was just that Nick
Series was there for the taking, and I think it's
okay that they didn't go out and do something bonkers
over the offseason. What were the opportunities available to them?
I actually did think Caroselburt was gonna be way better
for them than he has been. But like I just
can't get over the to your point about the Thunder, I.
Speaker 2: Would not that.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would respect it. I would
understand that logic more. If you're in the West, so
much of winning the title is getting to the finals,
and it's so there for the taking in the East
that I don't know. I'm sure they were aggressive and
looked at things, but I'd be curious people said Michael
Porter Junior wasn't available. I have no doubt that Michael
Porter Junior was available. Where the nets asking for three
first round picks and they were refusing to move in
for less that. I understand why the Pistons don't do that.
It needed to be something bigger than Kevin Hurder.
Speaker 3: Right, it's a low bar.
Speaker 1: They're nineteenth in half court offense and they are so
so thirteenth in first first chanced offense.
Speaker 2: Your defense is elite.
Speaker 1: That might get it done, not even just through the
first but to get you out of the East. Sure
they are. I would not pick them to beat the Thunder.
I wouldn't pick them to beat the Nuggets. I wouldn't
pick them to beat I might not even pick them
to beat the Rockets or the Timberwolves at this point,
like there's just something like the Rockets half court offense
has a Kevin Durant go nuclear, maybe Fred van Fleet
is coming back at that point. The Timberwolves have Anthony
Edwards and now I would assume was there but mostly
Anthony Edwards. Then even at Julius Randall, they have one
elite half court creator. With all due respect to Jenkins,
it's Kay Cunningham and the way that defenses defend him
and also the way that he plays like it takes
a toll for him to play as physical as he does,
and that's gonna make them, to me easier to defend.
Now Jalen Duran kind of expanding his bag, and just
they do have good complimentary pieces around them, and Tobias
Harris has delivered some pretty big moments on the ball too.
Speaker 2: That's not enough, man. So this Piston season is so great.
Speaker 1: And I feel like I'm poo pooing on it now,
But to me, it's just they're an excellent team, and
they are so excellent and they're shot at winning it all.
Speaker 2: This season is so real.
Speaker 1: I would have liked to have just seen them do
more at the trade deadline, and I think in hindsight
it might not be this season even if they get
I think in the moment, I wonder what it would
take for them to regret it. But if we jump ahead,
like two or three years, this feels as if it
could be one of those inflection points of what if
Detroit had done something during the twenty five to twenty
six season, like made enough grade trade?
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, you don't want to be that team that's
like that. Will that will use as a point of
comparison anytime in the future. A really good team does
not make a move like that. That's in the cards
at the moment. If the Pistons flame out, and it's
for the reasons that right now you would expect, which
is to say, they just don't have the shooting or
half court offense to get it done. Let's see, is
it my turn because I have it is caught my eye? Uh,
there's this Lebron guy and he plays for the Lakers
at the moment, and he's gonna be a free agent,
and nobody's quite sure where he's gonna play next year
or if he's gonna play at all. Is this gonna
be the last season Lebron plays with the Lakers. Yes,
you know, we have to serve the market. I just answered,
thank you.
Speaker 2: I just put you.
Speaker 1: I would be shocked if he's back with the Lakers.
The way that everything is unfolded, I'm assuming he'll go
back to Cleveland and that that'll be his swan song.
And I guess he'll go back for the minimum or
will they have access maybe they could access the mini Mmlee.
I would preferred to see him go somewhere where I
think he has the most realistic chance of winning a title.
Speaker 2: But I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's gonna be because if he's back
with the Lakers, it's because he's done what he'll do
with the Calves, except it's for the Lakers, and I
don't think there's that nostalgic equity there. And then also
the reporting that came out in the was that the
bat that was the Baxter Holmes piece right about how
Genie Buss felt like he was getting too much credit.
There's there's just no cut. There's there was a bunch
of other things in there. There was enough smoke for
there to be a fire, and I don't think there's
coming back from that, and even if there was, this
almost just feels just the way last season unfolded. No
extension offer on the table, You've heard nothing about, Well,
they just wanted to prioritize flexibility and they'll he's gonna
take a pay cut so they could do these No,
it's you haven't heard any of that. And we've heard
about him taking a pay cut to fit in Jonas
Founchewtas in previous offseasons, but nothing about he'll take a
pay cut to make get the Lakers other big names.
Speaker 2: I just think he's gone. I I would put.
Speaker 1: The odds at ninety percent that he's on a different
team next year.
Speaker 3: I don't know what I put the odds at, but
the like I think the way I was looking at
it is just reverse it and say, what that has
happened in the last year points to Lebron or the
Lakers wanting this to continue. Like everything from all the
it's just I'm just repackaging what you said. It's like,
what's the sign that he wants to stay there or
that they want him to stay there? Really that they
want him to stay there is even harder to come
up with evidence because like he's got business interests, his
family settled there, Like, you know, there's plenty of reasons
you could come up with for him to want to
be there. You could maybe even he could convince himself that,
like being second fiddled to Luca, especially if we keep
Austin Reeves, we're still going to draw free agent, Like
he could talk himself into like this is actually a
very good situation for me lifestyle wise and like competitive
from a competitive perspective. But the Lakers are just like
no extension. U Uh, we just traded for Luca. Uh,
we're gonna I mean, I don't know what to make
of like how much control they had over the home
stuff coming to the Genie bus stuff coming out, but
like there just isn't anything that suggests they want him
there because they could have contractually made that clear. They
could have They could just be messaging that. They could
be you know, doing some kind of pr push to
like I don't know, get fans to be like one
more in La or what. There's there's all those things
that could be happening that aren't. So, Like it's pretty
clear that this is already over and and honestly, like
I am, I want for it to be because it's
way more interesting to me if the Lakers go do
their own thing with Luca Post Lebron and he goes
to Cleveland, just like, that's that's way more fun, especially
because like.
Speaker 2: What is James hard and Donno Mitchell, Lebron, James Evans.
Speaker 3: And Charity Well, in my imagination, James Harden isn't there
for some reason.
Speaker 1: But so Lebron gonna go play a season with the
Warriors and then go back to Cleveland.
Speaker 3: Well, there's he's got some options. We're gonna do a
stat padding on this pretty soon, and I have a
wild card Lebron destination that I really like. But Cleveland
is like, that's just well, you gotta you gotta wonder
how much what which way does Harden being their cut
for him? Like, is that is that an incentive? Or
is that like I would prefer not to sign up
for this. You would assume it'd be helpful because all
the Vets like each other, you.
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, it's Darius Garland.
Speaker 1: Is what do Lebron and him have a relationship when
he's twenty six years old to the fifteen years younger
than Lebron. Right, Yeah, here's a better question. Does Bronny
go with him.
Speaker 3: No, No, he'll stay, And I mean, I don't know
if he'll be in the NBA. Actually, I just don't.
I don't. I don't think Bronni would want to do that.
You know, I think this he might view this as
like all right, time to cut the cord a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, here's an interesting question for you. Grant and I
have a list in our doc how many first time
All NBA players will we get? And I'm asking this,
I mean, there's been standout guys who will make their
first All NBA team, But I'm also thinking of we
know Jannis is ineligible.
Speaker 2: Jokic I think can miss one more.
Speaker 1: Game, so he's not gonna do it, right Lebron I
don't think he would have made it based off how
he's playing, but he's ineligible. Steph is kind of on
the fence too. Does he have six absences left? And
Wemby who would be an option for first team All
NBA he can only miss a couple more games. Lowry
Market has already been eliminated, Jaleen Joe Williams already been eliminated.
Kawhi's on the fence, even though he would be a
lock and the other variable in this we were talking
about the thunder before the Sga injury.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming they're.
Speaker 1: Being overly precautious, but what if all of a sudden
he was at the time.
Speaker 3: The wording on that one, too, is reevaluated after the
All Star break. That's always a flag, right of just like, okay,
so it might be two to four weeks after that.
We just we don't know.
Speaker 1: So I have a list, and let's see who would
be the locks. I think the locks if he's eligible,
but he's not a lot so Victor remin Yama and
Irish Maxy or my stone Cold first time all NBA locks.
Speaker 3: I think you're go ahead. I was gonna say, you
go All Stars next like that. You just have to
start picking from that group.
Speaker 1: Right, and so we'll just go. We'll go through them
rapid fire. Denny Avdya, Like, are any of these names
worth a lock to you?
Speaker 3: Oh? A lock? I mean it's so hard, Like let's assume.
Let's assume no Jokic, no, basically anybody that you even
casually mentioned, like no Steph, no Kawhi, no Jadab Sga
is a tough one. We need to dial that one.
In what's he at right now?
Speaker 1: Well, there's also I think, and we're probably going about
this the wrong way, so like I'll just rattle off
the list of names to see.
Speaker 2: I think I have fifteen.
Speaker 1: There's Wemby, Maxie Denny, Avdya Chet Holmgren, Jamal Murray, Scottie Barnes,
Jalen Duran, Michael Porter, Junior, Alprinchengoun Aman Thompson.
Speaker 2: Brandon Ingram. I have two.
Speaker 1: This is just deep cuts Conkinipple and Cooper Flag, Jalen
Johnson and bam Adebayo. The our baseline is two because
even if Wemby doesn't qualify, we're just gonna get two
first time All NBA players at least based off that
pool and knowing what we do about the games missed
for other players, because statistically speaking, yo, get Steph Wemby
and who's the other one of super Kawhi at least
one I'm not gonna qualify, and I'd be I'd be
willing to even wager maybe two. At least, I'm gonna
let's set the over under at two and a half
first time All NBA players?
Speaker 2: Is that too? Is that even too low?
Speaker 3: That's a pretty easy over for me, if it's two
and a half, if you're gonna go like four and
a half, I think then we have the conversation because
it's like I think Avdia, I think he's probably there.
I think saying chet chet probably there. I do think
it's interesting that he it's partly just because what's happened
with Jada in wise, but like, I think we're not
that far from him collectively just being regarded as the
second best thunder player at this point.
Speaker 1: Just I think I think we have started each of
the previous two seasons asking that question only to kind
of just like phy.
Speaker 3: Now, how do you conclude otherwise with the with the
the thing is you could say, like, well, once he's healthy,
it's just different. But it bit Jada hasn't been healthy
because of the risk surgery and all that stuff. So
I think those are pretty comfortably in. I don't know
how you talk yourself out of Murray the way he's
played this year.
Speaker 2: That's like five though, So we're over.
Speaker 3: We're over four and a half. We got to knock
somebody else out. Do we knocked Shay out? So he's
missed one, two, three, four, five six so far? Seven
So he's topping out at seventy five. He can miss
quite a bit. Actually down the street.
Speaker 1: You'll get there, and it's I'm just gonna settle in it.
I'm gonna take the under of one.
Speaker 3: Four, I'm gonna go over and say five, just to
keep it because it's more. That's more interesting because there
are worthy guys.
Speaker 2: That's all right, Like though, right, you get don't you?
Speaker 3: I mean, like if I think if Avdya and Chet
and Murray were on an All NBA team, you you
wouldn't like look back in three years and be like
that is insane. It wouldn't be like, who's the example
of like that guy like Julius Randall's got a couple
of those where you're just like, really, I don't I
wouldn't feel the same way about looking back at those guys.
So I guess maybe that's just me already like pre
rationalizing that it's not weird at all that Danny Avdia
is an All NBA player.
Speaker 1: Right, I think Danny Avi would be the name historically
that winds up standing out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, probably, I mean, you get down passed. Just as
the lists we're looking at that the viewers can't see.
I think Scottie Barnes is the one below Jamal Murray
that like, all right, I could see it, and then
Jalen Duran would be I mean boys, he getting paid.
Speaker 2: There were positions still that yeah, of.
Speaker 3: Positions that that would be even first of all, good
thing there aren't because then that's how you get the
real wild outcomes. You get on to the MPJ shingoon
ingram range, and then it's like something something. The rules
are dumb, this is bad.
Speaker 1: We don't like this, all right, So you're taking over
four and a half, I'm taking I'm taking under four
and a half. You're taking over four and a half
first time all NBA players. I want to hear from
people how many of the first time all NBA players
they think we're gonna get?
Speaker 3: All right? Is it my turn here? I hate I
kind of wanna. I don't want to overlap too much.
Let's do this quickly. Maybe because this is just like
a gut feeling thing which should be contender is most
likely to disappoint us. This is also kind of a
personal thing because it prices in that you expect something,
maybe more out of a team than than you're gonna get.
I don't have a ready answer, well most no, if
that's too galaxy brain.
Speaker 2: Or you gonna say the thunder.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But they're not a should be contender. It's how
do you qualify a should be contender?
Speaker 1: Are they supposed to win at least a playoff series?
Would it be a disappointment if their season ended without
a playoff series victory?
Speaker 3: Then it has to be Cleveland, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: But are they most likely? Do you think they're gonna lose?
I don't think they're gonna lose in the first round.
Speaker 3: God, it's so easy to imagine that though.
Speaker 1: And I'm not including I'd like the magic. If we
answered this question maybe at the start of the season,
before we saw what they looked like, I wouldn't be
The expectations need.
Speaker 2: To be adjusted.
Speaker 1: It's disappointing this is where they're at. But if they
lose in the first round, is it a disappointment? It's no,
that's just following the natural order of how the season
has unfolded.
Speaker 2: It feels like.
Speaker 3: It's much harder to pick a team from the West though,
right because, like I, I just gravitated a little bit.
As I'm looking at the standings towards the Rockets. But
it's like, so if they lose the four or five
to Minnesota, is that is that disappointing? Like, I don't know,
I'm trying to think of the.
Speaker 2: Can I just give you my the what I think
is the not the only answer, but should be the answer.
Speaker 3: Please?
Speaker 2: It's the Knicks?
Speaker 3: Well it does? Anybody there?
Speaker 1: What do you?
Speaker 3: Knicks?
Speaker 2: One?
Speaker 1: They were the most popular pick to come out of
the Eastern Conference this season. I picked the Calves, but
they were the most popular pick to come out of
Eastern Conference this season. Even through their post NBA Cup pays,
they've rebounded from it a little bit. They're still just
in contention for a top two record. The team that's
in first place is a team they beat last year. Well,
give the Pistons all the credit in the world while
sort of actively self sabotaging themselves at points. But you're
a team that were supposed to come in and be
the Eastern Conference favorite and you haven't lost that sheen
just yet. And you look around, Okay, Boston's better than expected,
but the Tatum element not being there. You're still losing
games to the Pacers at Madison Square Garden. But Tyre's
Aliburn is not coming back and they're not making the
playoffs they like. I don't think Boston. Let's look at
it this way. I don't think Boston is good to
lose to the Raptors or the Sixers if that's who
they play in the first round. I don't think the
Pistons are gonna lose to the Magic to Heat, the
Hornets or the Hawks, if that's who they play in
the first round. Do the Knicks end up play like
I could see the Knicks losing. So that's the amount
of faith I have in New York, just like reaching
a certain level. And this is bonkers to say, because
I was looking the other day. They actually have and
my concerns are mostly on defense with them. They have
a top seven defense against top five, top ten offenses,
which is actually pretty impressive. But the concerns we have
about the Pistons offense, it's so different with New York.
But they still don't have a number two option, a
real one that's not Mikhale Bridges, Karnthy Towns is all
over the place, like Jose Alvarado isn't coming in to
do that. I don't want og Anobi handling the ball
more than he has to. Their second best passer is
in the rotation or regular rotation is Josh Hart. Okay, cool, Fine,
they're signing Jeremy Sohan. We'll see what experimentation looks like.
But they're they're never actually gonna be five out, or
when they are gonna be five out, it's coming at
a very steep opportunity cost defensively. But because I'm a
big proponent of Ifduce McBride is gonna be healthy, him
plus the starters instead of him, plus the core four
starters or Bridges, Ananobe, Towns and brunts in that lineup
can really kill it offensively, it's it's probably not gonna
be that good defensively, we just haven't seen it enough.
I just think there's more variance in their outcomes. And also,
if Boston does lose in the first round, how big
of a disappointment is that?
Speaker 2: Actually?
Speaker 1: So to me, it's to me the answer is the Knicks,
and a lot of it's because of what you said
about the West. Yeah, it'd be disappointing if Houston bows
out in the first round, or if Minnesota does or
the Spurs do, or but the West is so good, man,
if the Knicks lose to whatever this version of the
if they lose to a playing team, which I don't,
if they play the Magic. I'm not ruling out them
losing in a seven game series.
Speaker 3: Oh, I would rule that if they there, that would
be a massive disappointment to me and I But I
take your point. I think I do agree that it's
the Knicks. I do. I was working on something the
other day, and the Knicks have a higher point differential
and are on pace to win more games this year
than last year, and yet it's just like, what a
catastrophe this team? Like that. I think the problem really
is preseason expectations were too high, like they're a little
better on balance, and that just doesn't square with what
people thought was gonna happen. Does it? Is that an oversimplification?
I just know I'm think saying that as someone that
picked them to win like fifty three games.
Speaker 1: People overestimated the bump they were gonna get, or at
least the immediate bump, because I do. I actually do
think they're clearly more flexible than they were under Tom Thibodeau.
And I think Jeremy Sohan signing with them, I don't
think he's gonna be a huge part of their rotation.
But it's proof that this team does have more change
ups in its arsenal because they've played Modioara. They gave
Tyler Kollock more minutes. Jeremy Sohan had ten suitors. According
to Shams, you're not going to the Knicks if you
think they're just gonna bury you on the bench.
Speaker 2: There are others.
Speaker 1: There had to be at least one or two other
teams that would have promised him X amount of minutes,
So there is I do think they're better equipped overall.
Speaker 2: But their inherent.
Speaker 1: Problem, which I think that people underestimated, is that the
ceiling Tom Thibodau might have been a ceiling, but the
roster to me is also a ceiling.
Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, we spent a lot of
time leading into this season talking about that exact which
is it kind of a topic like Okay, yes, uh,
Mike Brown, maybe he's a better coach, maybe he's not.
He'll be different and maybe that amounts to better in
some way, but like, ultimately it is the roster that
just like it's got limitations, it's got like these unsolvable
weird fits. A lot of which have to do with towns,
a lot of which have to do with wing death.
Like the fact that Sohan, the fact that I could
immediately talk myself into like, oh, that's gonna matter, Like
just like someone like Sohan that gets thrown away by
his team with like that was a a high first
rounder not long ago. That just like the fact that
immediately was like, yeah, I could absolutely see how he
would matter on that team. That just illustrates like the
roster has been the issue all along, and that didn't
really change.
Speaker 1: The fact that you're so tightly tethered to the fate
of Landry Shama's shoulder, which kudos said. The way he
navigates screens is like he's asking to have his shoulder
just located every single game. So kudos to him for
still playing like that. But beholden to Mitchell Robinson's ankles.
It's just so I think it's I'm not saying they
even will, because I do think some of it's But
I don't think this season has been a disaster. That
stretch was disastrous. There was something that felt rotten in
that locker. We said it, But I just I'm looking
at the contenders that have the highest ceiling, but like
there's the variant of the lowest floor, I think it
might be them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean I agree with you because I
just can't pick a West team. I don't think so
I don't know what else to go.
Speaker 2: There?
Speaker 1: Can we do two more before we get into stat padding,
and one of them being the inverse of this question,
which under the radar team grant do you think could
shock us all in the play playoffs? And if it's
not the answer that I have, I'm gonna dismiss it
and say that you're wrong.
Speaker 3: Oh well, I want to know your answer, then I well,
I'll tell you that I'm gonna pick a West team
just because, like I don't know that they under the
radar nature of it. Ah, oh okay, I got one.
What about Phoenix coming out of the play in and
beating Let's it's gonna be the Spurs, I guess in
the first round. I can imagine that just the Spurs
aren't quite ready. Uh, the Suns just somehow get like
the high energy like pressure ball movement like offense and
defense combo to actually work in the playoffs. They got
nothing to lose. Dylan Brooks causes several fights suspended. Yes,
but he does it while also getting Wimby suspended. I
can see. I could see that, Like he goes into
the series with his only goal as like just double
text all day baby, and that would be that's that's
that would be a fun pick. I wouldn't, like, I
want the Spurs to be great immediately, but the Suns
are just kind of like mean enough and enough of
an irritant that I could see it.
Speaker 1: They're a team that even if you played with Spurs, Nuggets, Thunder,
whatever and you won that series four, oh, you're still
gonna feel that series.
Speaker 2: They're one of those teams.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: My pick is the Charlotte Hornets, the team that is
in the top five of offense and defense since Thanksgiving. Man,
you have to believe in their defense to think that
they'll make a ruckus in the Eastern Conference. I believe
in it a little bit more than most. Like Seon
James is a tank. Your guy, Josh Green, what does
he do again?
Speaker 3: Grant he passes on? I almost texted you because I
was watching that the the the Pistons Hornets game with
the fight Wait, can.
Speaker 2: We talk really quick?
Speaker 1: Isn't it so cool that everyone was already watching that
game before the fight took place, like Piston's Hornets was
a point like that was awesome.
Speaker 3: That was my no doubt I got away that was
like when you go through the games every day. I
was like, that's number one. I'm definitely watching that and
then was rewarded with with fireworks. Josh Green one hundred
percent made a good pass on the move and I
was ready to like screen cap it and text you
about it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so that like having and then also just
Conkinnipple size. I'm restating a lot of what I said
to more than the podcast about where we talked more
about the Hornets.
Speaker 2: They've just their bigs have been way better.
Speaker 1: I think Mussa Diabade is gonna get like they are
gonna be bigs that give him problem. Jaalen Duran would
probably be one of them, and we saw that in
real time. But their defense is not it's not just
shooting luck for me, and I don't think if they're healthy,
I don't have questions about their offense. When you have
Brandon Miller, Khanka Nipple and Lamela Ball is just like plus.
Now we're integrating Kobe White into the equation, which I
finally landed on after thinking about it more. I really
do think it's gonna end up being a functional upgrade
for them because the different ways you can use them offensively.
You said it, you kind of alluded to it before.
If they play the Pistons in the first round, no,
I'm probably not picking them, but look at how tough
they played them. Yes, it's one game, but they were
in the game.
Speaker 3: They were in it.
Speaker 1: If the Pistons, like, if the Charlotte's offense is better
for a few games against the Pistons defense, the Pistons
offense isn't unsolvable for Charlotte, especially if Arlott's defense is
getting set and the offense just might be so good
that if they play the Knicks or the Celtics in
the first round, yes, I'm picking the Knicks or the Celtics,
But is it outside the realm of possibility that, oh,
the Knicks can't guard Charlotte's offense, or oh, Boston like
they're a little bit more like for Charlotte to guard
Boston's offense with whatever version of Jason Tatum we get
feels reasonable to me, And I think this is speaks
to the state of the Eastern conference A little bit sure,
it just would not if we get a seven to
too upset or an eight to one upset without knowing
the teams or the conference.
Speaker 2: I'm just assuming it was the Hornets that did it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think one of the best things about the Hornets,
at least you know, over the last however many weeks.
This is a little sports talkie and we like to
be a little more thoughtful about it. But like you
do get the sense when you watch them that they're
just like they're they're not intimidated by like the better teams.
They really do have this errap. Maybe it's because they
they don't have anything to lose or some that kind
of thing. I don't know how many cliches I can
cram in, but like they very much think they belong
in this Like they're playing the Pistons. They're up for
the physicality, Like LaMelo's not really phased, but just by
usar Thompson just being like glued to Like they that's
just all to say. As an upset pick, they make
a lot of sense because like to them, it wouldn't
be an upset They're just like, yeah, no, we belong
in this series, Like we're not. Oh the Pistons real
scary like they're they're not. They're not put off by
that kind of thing, and that's a good quality to
have as a as a potential upset.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna warn everybody right now that if they finish
the season healthy, whether they're in the playoffs, or if
they get into the playoffs and win multiple games in
a series, I'm gonna be calling for them to do
something so reckless over the offseason like they's just everybody
be prepared for it.
Speaker 3: It's good, good to know. Thanks for the.
Speaker 2: So our final question. We've talked to it.
Speaker 1: We did a whole episode on tanking. I don't want
to talk about that. This is more so quick because
we honestly just don't know. Wasn't post all star peg
des Well. We're going to get some more details on
the Clippers aspiration investigation. But every time Pablo Tore comes
out with what feels like another smoking gun, it's how
is this investigation going to close anytime soon?
Speaker 2: Because have they has have the lawyers found all this
stuff yet?
Speaker 1: Or are they just like following Pablotore's lead at this point?
Speaker 3: It you know, we can't talk about this at all
without just conceding its full speculation, because nobody knows anything,
at least publicly at least, I mean, we know a lot,
but we don't know what the NBA is ready to say, like,
here's what we concede happened, here's the punishment. I just
think I feel like this question is most interesting the
result side of it, in terms of like what will
the league do to the Clippers?
Speaker 2: And cool?
Speaker 3: Right, Like that's really what we want to know and
is that and doesn't some part of you view the
hardened like getting out of town in the dead and
night things as him being like, yeah, I can see
where this is going. Uh, Kawhi is going to get
suspended for a huge chunk of next year or just
the contract.
Speaker 2: That's just can they suspend?
Speaker 3: It's not a dead giveaway, but hardened bouncing after without
like any real like lead up to this this.
Speaker 2: Time, this trade demands normally have a preamble this.
Speaker 3: Usually yeah, Usually it's like okay, oh, here's the first
UH teams for personal reasons or whatever it ended up being.
Speaker 2: That's not that's not a classic James harden eggs.
Speaker 3: Not enough of a heads up by his standards, right,
He didn't call any executive liars. Uh. He didn't wear
a fat suit like usually. There's a playbook and he
just didn't follow it. He just said, we got to
get out of here. I have no way of knowing this,
but but I it feels unlikely that they'll void. Kauhi
is con tracked.
Speaker 2: I just don't. What I was going to say is
if you wanted to Galaxy brain it.
Speaker 1: James Harden wanting out to me felt like evidence they
might because he's not gonna care about the first round
picksh No, they took away the Clippers first round picks.
I gotta get out players don't think that way, which,
by the way, terrible idea to have a tournament to
determine who gets the Adam Silver.
Speaker 2: Solution to everything is fuck tournament a tournament.
Speaker 3: Let's add six more games to the regular season for
this tournament. Uh, I feel like a suspension, like a
sizeable like twenty five games like fifty feels.
Speaker 2: Like a lot.
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you, is can Kawhi actually be
penalized for this? Can a player? I don't a player
circumvent the salary cap.
Speaker 3: And circumvent I mean you could couch it as like
there's all this evidence that he and his representation were
asking for all this stuff, and you want to set
set the precedent of don't do that because teams are
going to be like, yeah, okay, you know, maybe it's
almost easier to punish that side of it than the
team because you're right, like, I don't know, I just
I'm the process of elimination. Voiding his contract feels like
holy I would be surprised, Like wouldn't you be surprised
if that was what happened. A suspension just feels like
a like a softer middle ground type. I honestly hadn't
feels like that's where this is headed.
Speaker 1: I honestly hadn't given a thought to him being suspended.
I'm just at the point where, based off everything we've
seen heard from Pablo Torre and like you said, it's
all speculation, they're gonna be docked multiple first round picks,
right this is.
Speaker 3: I think that at a minimum, given at a minimum
to pick thing, because that at least, like I don't know,
I keep viewing this so cynically, like the league doesn't
the league doesn't want to maybe one like acknowledge the
seriousness of this with like some unprecedented punishment, and so
it's easier to say, like, well, Joe Smith, this is
what happened with Joe Smith. We talked a bunch of picks.
So let's definitely do that like that that's a given.
I don't. I wouldn't. Don't you think though, that if
that's all that happened, everybody would be like, that's not
nearly enough.
Speaker 1: From Yeah, you're right. That's why I was wondering if
James Harden getting out of Dodge was more about the
Kawhi Leonard contract being voided.
Speaker 3: I think it's related to what will happen to Kawhi,
but I just couldn't get to the like we knew contract.
Speaker 1: Here's a question. Well, here's a first. Here's a really
serious question. How can this be solved by hosting some
sort of tournament? My actual question is, is Kawhi Leonard
available to the Clippers on opening night next season?
Speaker 3: No, either because he's not on the team or he's
not allowed to play.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just available to them?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think for non health issues. Though. Let's let's assume.
Speaker 3: He's health That's such an easy answer. If you get
to have the health piece in there. No, if will
a healthy Kawhi Leonard be available to play basketball for
the Clippers on opening night in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2: I don't think so I'm should say no.
Speaker 1: I might be a doomer, or maybe I'm underestimating the
NBA's ability to pretzel twist and figure out a way
to We didn't find anything.
Speaker 2: I just all this stuff.
Speaker 1: The inconsistencies too, where they're saying that the big one
for me, like the I don't know if you listen
the latest Pabulatory finds out about this, but where they
said they terminated the relationship at some point, and it's like, no,
they didn't. They were still and I guess there could
have been a disconnect between their social media team. But
then you find paperwork to show that it wasn't terminated.
Speaker 2: This is just.
Speaker 1: On everything that's public, and you can't get mad if like, well,
there's stuff hiding behind the scenes that we will we
don't know it, then they could be more transparent about it.
Speaker 2: And the whole I have forgotten how.
Speaker 1: Ridiculous until that Pabulatory episode. Lawrence Frenk's response to Ramona
Shelburn's question was towards like you were.
Speaker 3: Aware of the rules. They're aware of the.
Speaker 2: Rules, aware of the rules, and that's okay. What is
the edit?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Is that yes? Or no?
Speaker 1: Yes, we're aware of the rules. You fucking did it.
I'm sorry that smirked at the end two I looked.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, they're guilty. And I didn't even.
Speaker 1: Think about this, But this is purely respectable people viewing
the Lawrence Frank extension as much money, it's just.
Speaker 3: Right right right.
Speaker 1: If this is where we're at, it feels like multiple
first round picks, I would say, a fine, What north
of ten twenty five million fifty is.
Speaker 3: Got to be massive, because well you say that, I
say that, and then it's like, what's the number that
could make Steve Balmer like blink? You know, like that.
That's why maybe the avoiding the contract is more likely
in light of that, because like you sort of can't
find him enough for it to matter. So maybe maybe
they could get really creative and just be like picks gone,
Kawhi contract voided. You are, like, what else could even
be if we're just totally trying to make it hurt?
Like what else could the league even do? Just like
because like in college you know, to get.
Speaker 2: Them to the Eastern Conference an award.
Speaker 3: You don't get to be in the playoffs, doesn't matter
how well you play, Like no playoffs for you, or
like you don't get the payout from Uh, well this
doesn't apply to them, but like if you're ever in
a position to get like tax your share of like
luxury tax money, you don't get it. Or I don't know,
like there's that's gotta be her team. Yeah, there's gotta
be like a team building thing.
Speaker 2: How long has Kawhi been in LA now, b.
Speaker 3: I don't know, six years?
Speaker 2: What if is that enough?
Speaker 1: If they said you are going to be docked one
first round pick for every year that Kawhi Leonard has
been on.
Speaker 3: This team, so then you're botting out one.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's more than six grand one seven, three, four, five,
six seven, So then you're going you're not getting a
first round pick again until twenty thirty, because first of all,
they don't have one again until twenty thirty. So it's
thirty thirty one and thirty two, thirty three, thirty four,
thirty five, thirty six, so their next first round would
be twenty and thirty seven.
Speaker 3: God, I mean that would hurt, like that would really.
Speaker 1: Do that, you're talking because he has another year left
on his contract if they're not there.
Speaker 3: To go yeah, I mean yeah, because it can't be money.
It's just it's just like that's never gonna matter.
Speaker 1: So it's gotta be point though, aren't you punishing This
is what I can't you're punishing the fans then no?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean the real the only certainty here
is they're like, there's not a good way to handle this,
Like there's no, there's no, there's no just punishment that
doesn't have a ton of collateral damage, like the fans
are gonna suffer no matter what. It's just how do
you balance that concern against we have to set we
have to draw a line somehow and use this punishment
as a signal of like, if you do this type
of thing, it's gonna it's gonna really hurt you. And
the problem is like even that doesn't hurt Balmber because like, no,
his life doesn't change, you know, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: I think from a competitive integrity standpoint, it needs to
be historically significant whatever they're doing. So maybe we viewed
as well, that's not hurting Bomber, that's not enough, but
you know what, it was marketedly more than the Timberwolves
were punished for Joe, for Joe Smith.
Speaker 2: And just that.
Speaker 1: And I'm curious, I would need to know if they
come to the conclusion that there's nothing warranting, there was
nothing untoward here, what is the what's the smoking gun
that proves that proves nothing untoward happened?
Speaker 3: I don't, I mean, there isn't one. I don't think.
I just there's there's too much that it's there's too
many different like arms of this that are all like incriminating.
So yeah, I the only I will say it is
incredible how effectively this story has been memory hold like
during the season. The fact that we the fact that
we went like months without really talking about it or
thinking about it is amazing. Like, I just the way
that the league and just I don't know, Probably it's
more about us and our inability to like pay attention
to anything for more than ten seconds. But like, there's
wild to me that this should have just been top
of mind like all the time. There's no there hasn't
really been a bigger story than this. Well maybe people
don't care.
Speaker 1: Well, I think there's just oversaturated with information and maybe
much more negative information like breaking scientific findings are actually
inaccurate because we decided that these scientific so.
Speaker 2: Stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But also that speaks to is it the attention span
or more so the oversaturation of all these other things
to focus on, whether it's inside or outside of sports,
because of I guess that is an extension of short
attention span at that point. But you're right, this is
the only reason we're probably even talking about it as
consistently or as often as we have is because Pablo
Torre has continued like a semi steady stream of like
he has kept this if not center like close to
the center, like just off center, and that that's an
accomplishment in this day and age.
Speaker 3: I would say it is, and it and it is
like I guess like I'm catching myself because you're right,
like there's just it's you know, you open your phone,
it's like what fresh hell today? Uh, it's it's like
hard to make the clippers matter in like a fully
zoomed out scope. But like as far as this end,
if you care about the NBA, this thing has not
gotten the coverage that it should have, like in terms
of like a day to day thing, but maybe that.
I don't know. It's a hopefully we get something after
the All Star break, because that's been If we don't
get anything into like the off season, that's gonna be
deeply annoying because the whole theory was just like, well,
we got the All Star Game into it Dome.
Speaker 2: We can't we can't game.
Speaker 3: You want people to care about the All Star Game,
which they don't at all. We just build construct a courtroom,
a set a TV set of a courtroom on Center Court,
don't play the All Star Game, and we litigate the
Aspiration scandal on TV. How about that?
Speaker 2: We have some breaking news, Grant before we move on.
Speaker 1: Free agent Malik Beasley has signed a deal to play
with Bad Bunnies team in Puerto Rico, the Santurcet Crabbers.
Both parties tell ESPN the team season begins in March.
Beasley has been under NBA and FBI investigations for gambling allegations.
This is Persham's I didn't see that one coming.
Speaker 3: Ah, you could have given me a lot of guesses
about the team. It would have taken me a while
to get to Bad Bunnies. Puerto Rico.
Speaker 2: Crabbers is such an awesome name for a team.
Speaker 3: It is solid. What's the competition level there? Do you
how many teams are there? Tell me everything you know
about the Puerto Rican Basketball League?
Speaker 2: Well, Grant, they run. I have no idea. What seems like?
Speaker 1: I think this feels like the right time that we
move on. So with that all being said, we are
now moving on to.
Speaker 2: Stat padding.
Speaker 3: Grant.
Speaker 1: Lots of goodies that I didn't even sync up with
you beforehand.
Speaker 2: They're all they're a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: So how would you like to How would you like
to start? Do you want to do a solo one
or do you want to do a joint one?
Speaker 3: Together? Let's do a joint one. That sounds fun.
Speaker 1: I think it sounds fun as well. So let me
find the joint ones that I that we have.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is fun. I'll read this one. You could
read this one. This is great, Grant.
Speaker 1: We have been administered truth serum. What is one hot
or against the grain?
Speaker 2: Take?
Speaker 1: You're afraid to get off your chest, but now you
have no choice but to share.
Speaker 3: All right, I have a couple here I would say, like,
first of all, is this just bait so that we
get like I catch a lot of heat. Is that
your attention here? It's like, tell me what you really.
Speaker 1: Are so online that I want to ruin your mental
health when people get so mad at your take, okay,
spamming the comments.
Speaker 3: I'll give you I won't ever see it. I'll give
you one that I feel like you could have guessed
based on how I've discussed it in the past. But
I think that Jonathan Kaminga deserves ninety five percent of
the blame for how things went badly between him and
the Warriors. And that is entirely because I think food
is sacred and should be apportioned out. No, Like, here's
the thing, you know.
Speaker 2: Food did you see that quote card by the way.
Speaker 3: Really funny, that's really great. The food is only like
a small fraction of It's a not insignificant part of
Here's the thing, you know. I always go to bat
for Steve Kerr, and I always point to like, show
me the guy that would have, oh oh he doesn't
run pick and roll and know he's screwing Kaminga and
this Over the years, I'm always just like, show me
the guy that wins the fifth championship with Draymond Green
doing all the Draymond Green stuff, and all the pressure
and all like manages, all these personalities. Show me the
coach that gets you not four but five, and I'll
stop going to bat for Steve Kerr anytime there's like
a one side or the other situation. It's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2: This is not mine.
Speaker 1: But I would just counter by saying, I think it's
maybe ninety five to ninety nine percent of Joe Lacup's fault.
Speaker 3: Uh, well, that's too many percents.
Speaker 2: I I'm just saying, you've put, you gave.
Speaker 1: How much did he contribute to Jonathan Kaminga having this
superstar complex and you didn't leave. I would say, even
if you're not gonna blame him for drafting Kaminga, that
stuff can be sensationalized. Sure, And I'm just anyone who's
not Vivic Renadive or James dolann Im probably won't to
give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to
transactional decisions. You still hamstrung your team by viewing him
so highly. You were enamored by him, and you didn't
let in some way, You didn't let your basketball people
make all of the basketball decisions. And I understand billionaires
can get high on their own supply, and that's why
they're billionaires in the first place. But that just seems
so dumb, and it kind of tethered the Warriors through
this player who was never an archetypal fit for the
way that they wanted to play. You were gonna have
to sort of rewire him, and when it became clear
it wasn't.
Speaker 2: Working, you probably had There was over a year.
Speaker 1: It had to be like a year and a half
where Jonathan McAll probably had real trade value and you
just sat on it.
Speaker 3: If so, if if from a buck stops Here perspective,
you're right, because Joe Lacob is the guy that ultimately
decides what happens with the team. And if But where
I run into why why I focus on Cominga Because
I'm viewing it as like is it Cominga or is
it kerr Slash like the Warriors and how they used him.
To me, that's where the ninety five percent Comminga side
of it comes in, because like, unless you think that
lacub is entirely responsible for Minga's perception of like the
type of player he thinks that he is, which I don't.
I think he just that's what he believed, and maybe
what other people in his orbit, like agents or family
members or whatever like had you know, talked him into
or at least like supported, I think like he didn't.
The idea of having to rewire a teenage rookie is
insane to me because like, just you made the NBA.
That's incredible. You obviously have ridiculous talent and self belief
in all that stuff, But it's like fit in at
least at the start, like try that and see what
it gets you. And he never made a sincere effort,
Like talking about like citing that Timberwolve series last postseason
is like the reason that he, oh just reinforced because
he had like twenty three and thirty and sixteen and
twenty or whatever, and it's like, your team lost all
those games, so what did you didn't prove anything? Like
the the idea that he gave an honest shot to
doing what the team asked him to do in a
role playing capacity is like such bs to me, because
it was it was never viewed by him. I don't
think as like I don't know a preferable alternative to
just like entitlement is such a loaded term, but it's
just like do the stuff your coach wants you to do,
Like why is that? Why is this such a difficult concept?
So to me, it's just him never embracing just the
harder road or like the the the like this guy
might know better road this guy Okay, people that have
won four championships playing a certain way, like just try
that at least in an honest way for a long
time and see what it gets you. I just don't
feel like that was ever like given a shot. So
I don't know, this is too long for a stat padding, but.
Speaker 2: You're You're wrong. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1: The only thing I can't get over is maybe I'm
reading too much into this because they were highlighting the
ridiculous of the too much food an anecdote Steph going
into the comments and saying, go be great.
Speaker 2: It doesn't. They didn't.
Speaker 1: The Warriors team, especially Draymond Green, speaks very codedly. It
never felt like there was this real disdain for Jonathan
kaminga among the vets. It felt like everything was anonymously
sourced and through that, and I'm not saying they weren't
at points, and so I'm just wondering, I would love
to give those speaking of truth serum. I would love
to give those two where Steph Curry specifically truth serrman
see who he thinks is mostly to blame for this.
Speaker 3: I view that again, shocker more as like a sign
of like how like professional and just like kind of
savvy and wise, like the vets on the team are
than I do as like an endorsement of Kamingo was
wronged and they all believe that because I do think
you would have gotten more direct in another situation, you
would have gotten more like either this guy is like
his head is way too big, or the team is
being unfair to him. I feel like all the players
just consistently like he's our teammate, we support him, we
like him. They said all the right things, even Kerr
said the right things most of the time. But it
just I don't know, the blame to me is always
going to lie with him just failing to do the
small things first and just wanting more than his production
and effectiveness dictated he should get because it's not like
there was ever a sustained period where the Warriors won
and it was because he was playing the role that
he really wanted that just didn't exist. So I just
That's kind of where I land on it.
Speaker 2: Would you like to know mine?
Speaker 3: Very much?
Speaker 1: So, I don't think that Aman Thompson's ever going to
be an All Star. I've sort of become in not
turned off by him as a player, the fact that
he's made so many things work offensively and what you
could maybe consider less than ideal spacing. But I don't
know what else is he supposed to do with better?
Do you view him as someone who has a good
enough handle to be a primary facilitator? Do vium is
enough of like a good enough playmaker to do that.
I think there's always going to be so many functional
limitations from him on the offensive end that as the
nuclear athleticism starts to wane, I don't know how you
go about navigating that. And to me it feels like
he might have this half decade window or something not
to be a really good player. But before we kind
of move away from the fact, oh is how is
he going to be?
Speaker 2: Meant?
Speaker 1: Who was mentioned alper Jangun, Kevin Durant Even this season
and a men, Thompson's had a fantastic season. Now the
defensive baseline is gonna get him in a lot of discussions,
but is he ever gonna get into actual All NBA,
which is gone, You don't you kind of fall into
the Rudy Gobert trap there, to Rudy Gobert would just
have more All NBA appearances if it was like if
defense was weighted as heavily as offense was.
Speaker 3: I love that take, I think unfortunately I'm kind of
coming around to it. I would frame it a little
bit as like he's never gonna matter to like winning
as much as like the perception seems to be. But
the All Stars that like puts a clear delineation. I
think the way to think about that one is like,
who's the example of a player that had the skills
he has and then and the massive weakness and then
like fixed it. And I was the first the name
that came to mind was like, what about like Jimmy Butler,
because like, didn't he come in as like mostly a defender,
really athletic, like the kind of similar frame. And then
it's like, well, but he shot thirty eight percent from
three in his second year, and then he shot thirty
eight percent in his fourth year and average twenty. So
it's just like I don't know who that guy is
doesn't mean it can't ever happen. But honestly, I think
for both Thompson's like, we're at a point now where
if the shot isn't there, it's kind of and it's
and it's not just like, oh, they're at thirty percent.
It's like Thompson's at like twenty. I'm and Thompson's at
like twenty on threes, and he's just like, by a
lot of measures, the worst jump shooter in the league.
I just don't it so that's passable.
Speaker 2: His efficiency is so far below average everywhere away from
the basket.
Speaker 1: So it's not even just he needs a three point shot,
it's is the floater falling at a higher enough clip?
And the answers no, And I also just wonder if
he has to what's the way. The way that he
can move off the ball is great, but then that
still insists that you have a better offensive player who
can get him the ball and find him if you
want to put him.
Speaker 2: On the ball.
Speaker 1: What does that team like if he needs to be
your primary on ball source, what does the rest of
that team need to look like?
Speaker 3: Yeah? No, it's the roster building concerns are massive and
just like the impact of the shooting struggles on his
ability to contribute in other ways, Like you don't have
to guard him, honestly, So if he becomes an even
better pick and roll operator, sort of doesn't matter as
much because you still just don't need to worry about
I can go under every time, you know, I never
need to chase him over a screen. It doesn't matter
if he has the ball all the time. So it
just it's a lot to overcome.
Speaker 1: Let's move on here. Do you want to take us
to You alluded to it before one Lebron James.
Speaker 3: Oh, the Lebron James. Next team should be yes? All right,
So here's a couple of things. As we're deciding Dan,
who should Lebron play for next? It cannot be the
Lakers or the Calves. Money doesn't matter. Let's just say
he can sign wherever he wants for the minimum. We'll
break it into a couple categories. I would like you
to tell me from a basketball iq you porn standpoint,
where would you like to see Lebron go? And then
let me know his best overall fit? What team would
you like to see him with?
Speaker 1: My two picks the start of basketball porn would Lebron
and Jokic be the two like highest IQ pair, like
the highest IQ pairent we've ever seen in NBA history.
Speaker 2: It would have to be up there.
Speaker 3: Chris Paul's a free agent right now. I don't know
if you know that.
Speaker 2: He retired though, so he's not really a free agent anymore.
Speaker 3: He could come back. That's I love that, Like why
wouldn't you want to see Lebron and Jokic? Like what
what kind of backdoor passes and stuff would you get there?
Speaker 1: Do you think Lebron would move away from the ball
like I think Jokic could? Ever, everyone talks about does
Lebron said enough screens or move away from the ball enough?
I just feel if you play alongside Yokic, you end
up doing those things, no.
Speaker 2: Matter the archetype of player that you are.
Speaker 3: And not only that, but like this will get into
some of what I like him in some other spots,
Like he's a couple He shot like forty seven percent
on catching shoot threes two years ago, like forty two
last year, thirty five this year not so hot. But
like there's a world where mostly what he does is
like be a swing pass recipient and either shoot or
like find the next brilliant cutter on the weak side,
like that works.
Speaker 1: And the shape that he is still in assuming he's healthy,
and the way he takes care of his body. Does
Denver just have an even bigger home court advantage because
it's Lebron's conditioning versus everybody else's.
Speaker 3: Love that one. That's a good one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my, my actual if it was just pure basketball
or maybe most realistic, I kind of think the Knicks
because he would have a bigger role on the ball
just they have Jalen Brunson still and it's who else
on that team if the team stays the same or
you giving the ball over Lebron aside from Brunson.
Speaker 2: The ANSWER's nobody.
Speaker 1: Nobody, So you could insert him into the starting lineup
instead of Josh Hart, Jalen Brunson, mckel Bridges, o Gananobi,
Lebron and Karnathy Towns. Sounds like an Eastern Conference favorite
to me, my totally unbiased opinion.
Speaker 3: Mine, you're gonna love this. So just the basketball IQ
side of it. How about Charlotte Because I don't know
if you know this, but LaMelo ball pretty creative guy
passing wise, sees the floor pretty well get you out
in transition, does some exciting things. Conkin Nipple also really smart.
Brandon Miller. I wouldn't put him on either of their levels,
but like as a third ball handler is like really
good as for the position that he's at. And then
you add a fourth in Lebron to that, and just
Miles Bridges take a hike your power forward minutes all
go to Lebron. Now that would be it'll never happen
because why is he going to Charlotte? But man, that
would be exciting.
Speaker 1: I think that the no TV after dinner on a
school night energy he would bring to that locker room
would be.
Speaker 3: Sir, you can he's got like a fifteen yeah, twelve
to fifteen year maybe more than that. Oh my god, yeah,
he's real dad energy to get on board. There my
best overall fit though, I mean, it can't be Cleveland
because but then because the fit then is just like
mostly narrative base and also like he could make sense
next to Jared Allen or Evan Mobley at the four
that totally works, or he could just be a three
in super sized lineups. That's fine. What about the pistons
because the spot we focus on for them is power forward,
which is the Tobias Harris spot, the one we wanted
to be filled, you know, a while ago by Lori
Markinen and later by MPJ. You put Lebron there defensively
is where he's slipping. Fine, You've got a million guys
that can guard up, can guard down. He just is
always guarding the least threatening opponent. You get a secondary
creator which still is in need there where Kay does
just everything at the very least. Lebron can be like
a connector a facilitator there and to cite the same
catch and shoot stuff like I trust him as much
on an open three as I trust Tobias Harris. I
just I think I don't think you're giving anything away there.
And then maybe that is the move that really does
put the Pistons over the top. And we're talking about
them as just like, as long as Lebron is close
to what he is now, they're just runaway favorites in
the East.
Speaker 1: I would just like to say, I'm both shocked and
proud you didn't pick the Warriors for Lebron.
Speaker 3: Steph Perry, Yeah, you know that'd be the easy one.
Speaker 2: I've got two for you before we skidattle from this.
Are you ready for them? I think you're gonna enjoy these?
Speaker 3: So ready?
Speaker 2: Laughing here? Sorry, hold on, grant.
Speaker 1: Eight NBA players have recorded a fifty point triple double.
Speaker 2: How many of them can you name? I will give
you three strikes?
Speaker 3: Uh, fifty point triple double? I impressed. Nobody jumps to mind.
So that's a problem. I'm gonna say. I just gotta
go with the usual suspects. I'll say Jokic.
Speaker 2: Jokic is a correct answer. He has two of them.
Speaker 3: Okay. I'll say Russ.
Speaker 1: Russ is also a correct answer. He has four.
Speaker 3: I'll go James Harden is also a correct answer.
Speaker 2: He has five.
Speaker 1: We're just acause you care? Is James Harden with five?
Speaker 3: Five is the high? Okay, Now it gets tougher. I'll
say Luca has done it.
Speaker 1: He has done it once, four of eight with zero strikes.
Speaker 3: Look at you, Well, the strikes are going to come
fast and furious. Here in a minute. A fifty point
triple double. This is one where there's always like a
relatively recent player that I am not going to remember.
How's about I don't think he's done it, but I
just the volume that gives you some Lebron. Has Lebron
done it?
Speaker 2: He has not that Strike one?
Speaker 3: I knew it.
Speaker 2: Fifth, Yeah, triple double.
Speaker 3: I don't want to ask you for hints yet, but
I also don't want a bunch of dead air. Well
I'm just sitting here.
Speaker 2: I'll give you a hint. Oh, none of them are
active player, yours remaining.
Speaker 3: All right, No active players with a fifty point triple double. Well,
this is the question, how far back does it go?
Because like Oscar Robertson has to be a guess. If
he's not in it, then I know we don't go
back that far. That is strike two. Okay, So that's
gonna rule out a lot of throwback guys. Fifty in
a triple double. I'm gonna say, how about Shaq?
Speaker 2: That is incorrect? Strike three? Yeah, that's a bummer. I
was rooting for you, buddy.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I got half of them. It's pretty good.
Speaker 2: So you got you got half of them.
Speaker 1: James hard and Nikole Jokis, Russell Westbrook, Lukadancis have all
had a fifty point triple double at least one.
Speaker 2: Kareem abdul Jabbar.
Speaker 3: Oh I gave up on him after Oscar was out,
damn it.
Speaker 2: Will Chamberlain had two.
Speaker 3: I thought you were gonna want him too.
Speaker 1: Elgend Baylor had two, and finally, this is the one
I didn't think you were gonna get.
Speaker 2: Richie Geeren had one.
Speaker 3: Don't do not know who that is? Uh, that's tough.
So Oscar didn't do it. And then I was out
because I was like, oh, they're just not going back
that far. That's tough.
Speaker 1: I didn't know why would come in there and say,
and maybe would you if I pronounced it correctly, Richie Garren,
would that make you feel? Apparently the pronunciations roll there.
His nickname was the leather Neck and he's in the
Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3: Grant okay is this was he active from like nineteen
forty eight to nineteen fifty four.
Speaker 1: He played fifty six through he made it to the
nineteen seventies.
Speaker 3: All the fun fifty point doubles.
Speaker 2: You got the skill the last uh so half of
them solid showing.
Speaker 1: But I didn't think I thought you would have gotten
more though, So I'm a little disappointed.
Speaker 2: I was rooting for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I talk myself out of anybody before, like nineteen
ninety with the Oscar thing, I do. I do have
a couple of trade related stat pattings for you.
Speaker 1: Let's sit on those until trades down at the trade
that lines passed.
Speaker 2: I have one more for you. Oh, I have insanely high.
Speaker 1: Hopes for not to put any more pressure on you,
but Grant, eight NBA teams have gone at least seven
years without winning a playoff series. How many of those
eight teams can you name? You will once again get
three strikes?
Speaker 3: Well, my Warriors have got to be one of those.
Speaker 2: Strike one.
Speaker 1: What didn't win a playoff series in the past seven years?
Speaker 3: Oh, the past seven years? I thought you meant seven
years in franchise history.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, I went their streak erased the strike.
Speaker 3: Itrased the strike immediately.
Speaker 1: Grant, eight NBA teams have playoff series victory drafts of
at least seven years running currently. How many of these
teams can you name? I will give you three strikes?
Speaker 3: All right? Uh? The Kings?
Speaker 2: No, yes, that the Kings Kings around here.
Speaker 1: That streak, in case you care, is going to extend
to twenty two seasons after this year.
Speaker 3: Uh the no, they I think the Mitchell gobert Ones
are not seven years ago. So I will not say
the Jazz. Uh, the Bulls.
Speaker 2: The Chicago Bulls are on the list.
Speaker 1: It'll be eleven if they don't win a playoff series
this year, which they will not.
Speaker 3: Hmm, this is harder than I thought it would be.
I guess, man, when so that Wizards one was like set,
I'll say the Wizards.
Speaker 2: The Wizards are on there.
Speaker 1: They are about to have season number nine of a
playoff series victory drought.
Speaker 3: Oh uh, man, I gotta go with the Hawks.
Speaker 2: That is incorrect. Strike one.
Speaker 3: Oh no, I first have forgot one in there.
Speaker 2: They were just to the conference finals in.
Speaker 3: Oh shit, that's right, that's terrible.
Speaker 2: Well, proove how fake that was?
Speaker 3: According to Grant that sho count as like two strikes.
That's awful. See Trey Young bowing at center court right now, Okay,
let's see hmmm, No, this Memphis is one one. I'm
just going through all the teams. How long ago was
that Blazers conference phony Conference finals appearance? Uh, I'm gonna
go Blazers strike two. Dang, this is harder than I
thought it would be.
Speaker 1: If they don't win a playoff series this season, their
streak will reach seven years.
Speaker 2: But they're there right now.
Speaker 3: So all right, there's gotta be Can you tell me
how long the streak is for the next the longest
available streak, just so I know, like how often I
am active.
Speaker 1: Longest streak was tied between the Kings, which was twenty
one going on twenty two, and this team.
Speaker 3: There's another team that hasn't made the play won a
playoff series in oh uh, twenty years, Charlotte.
Speaker 2: That is correct. Okay, but you know what They're about
to break that streak, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they are. I'm gonna knock off the Pistons or
the Celtics. Hard to say what team's remaining. I can
give you the length of their playoff series drought. Sure,
give me the length of the longest one.
Speaker 2: Seventeen Oh oh boy.
Speaker 3: A playoff series win seventeen years? Man, oh, I have
a guess, but I really will feel terrible if if
it's not this team. How about the Pistons?
Speaker 1: They are seventeen. If they don't win this year, it'll
be eighteen. But they feel like a team that'll break
that streak.
Speaker 3: So three more to go?
Speaker 1: Yes, the next longest streak fifteen years without winning a
playoff series.
Speaker 4: Fifteen ooh, I I don't feel confident here, but I'm
gonna go with the Magic.
Speaker 2: That is correct.
Speaker 1: You're on fire. The Orlando Magic need to win a
playoff series, not to make it sixteen.
Speaker 3: Those Dwight Howard years long time ago.
Speaker 2: That's six teams you got. You have two left.
Speaker 1: The next longest streak is eight years without a playoff
series victory. And my prediction is this is where your
third strike comes.
Speaker 3: Okay, the Pelicans came to mind because I want to
say they beat the Blazers because the Warriors got them
in a second round series. Maybe I could be imagining that,
or they beat somebody who has not won a playoff
series in eight years, eight years. I will say, oh, man,
is it the Spurs?
Speaker 2: Oh you got it?
Speaker 3: Eight?
Speaker 2: One more team.
Speaker 3: You're really playing with fire. If you pick the Spurs
for like historic futility records.
Speaker 1: I didn't think you were gonna get I thought just
the recency of it all, or yeah, their longevity that
you weren't gonna pick them.
Speaker 3: So I just have run out of options that seem
obvious to me. So I'm gonna say, Phoenix.
Speaker 2: That's three.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're onto something with the Pelicans. Their streak is
about to extend to eight years.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, that was Drew Holiday did something cool in
that playoff.
Speaker 2: Run seven of eight. That's not bad.
Speaker 1: And you got the team that I didn't think you
were gonna I thought you were gonna go out on
the Spurs and you went out on the Pelicans, which
is well.
Speaker 3: I also guess the Warriors first, so it didn't start
out so hot it was.
Speaker 2: At the end it was grant.
Speaker 1: You have three strikes to guess the eight teams with
the longest active playoff series victory droughts.
Speaker 2: That's how we should have worded it.
Speaker 1: Andrew, if you're listening to the end of this, throw
that in the front as the start off so people
understand what we're talking about. Do you have anything else
or are you ready to take us out of here? Sir?
Speaker 3: I think that'll do it. Thanks everybody for listening, for watching,
Thank you for excusing my nomination of the Warriors as
a playoff series drought team. We're you know, we're all
of the All Star Break, aren't we? Remember to rate,
review and subscribe, Remember, tell your friends and tell your enemies.
Joining our discord links for that on the YouTube and
podcast description. UM I think that's gonna do it. Thanks everybody,
Thank you, Dan shouts, Frank mio Kino apologies. Jared Allen