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Speaker 1: This is Rosemaye Ellen Guiley, and you're listening to Unknown

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Origins Radio.

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Speaker 2: We live in a world filled.

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Speaker 3: If you're known, you trans handle the truth.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad as hell.

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Speaker 4: I'm not gonna like this anymore. We will not go

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quietly into the night. We will not vanish, not a night.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Unbound Origins.

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Speaker 5: Radio, and good evening everybody. Welcome to another edition of

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Unknown Origins Radio, where we talk about everything having to

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do with the strange and paranormal here on the Dark

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Matter Radio Network. I'm your host, Mark Johnson, and joining

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me is our co host mister Bruce Pearson.

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Speaker 4: How are you tonight, Bruce?

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Speaker 1: Great? Thanks Mike. How are you guys doing?

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Speaker 5: I'm doing good, doing good, And as usual, we have

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mister Keith Rowland producing in the background.

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Speaker 4: You know, we don't say this enough on the air.

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Speaker 5: We say it off the air, but you know we

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have to throw our kudos out to Keith. He produces

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us every week here on Dark Matter, does a phenomenal job.

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You know we wouldn't run as smoothly as we do

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without him. So you know, Keith, we got to throw

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you our kudos there. So welcome to another edition We're

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gonna have a great guest here coming up in just

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a few minutes before we get going. Of course, we

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just you know, want to do our usual housekeeping things

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that are coming up. We definitely wanted to bring up

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the event that's coming up this Saturday, Bruce, I will

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let you talk a little bit more about that, since

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you've been really streaming lighting that the last few weeks.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I'm gonna be involved with it down in Westfield,

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New Jersey with Bruce Dango. He has the premiere of

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his documentary about his incident that kind of got him

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involved in the paranormal when he was six years old.

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The Steering Man is the name of the program. It'll

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be premiered in Westfield from six to ten pm is

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the time of the event, with dinner and there's some

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entertainment and of course the Q and A and meet

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and greet and all that neat stuff. And that's this

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Saturday in Westfield, New Jersey. Steering Man. You can look

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it up on the internet. There's a couple of tickets left.

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I think he's got almost four hundred tickets sold at

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this point, so it's pretty big venue. It's a very

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nice haul We've done some fundraisers over the years with

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the Ghost Hunters team for Touret syndrome, and they're going

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to raise money this time for both Touret syndrome research

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and also childhood cancer. So it's for a good cause.

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If you're anywhere within traveling distance out of New York

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Philadelphia area or anywhere in New Jersey, it's going to

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be a good time. So has put a lot into

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this thing for the last year or so and it's

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a very well done program. Excuse me. And so you

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can get a hold of me and market Dark Matter

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Network at the Unknown Origins Radio on our website and

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get some information. You go on the web and staring Man.

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This should be easy to find and you can get

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the information there.

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Speaker 5: That's gonna sound like a great event. I really wish

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I could make it. Unfortunately I'm tied up this weekend,

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but definitely say hi to Bruce for me and.

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Speaker 4: Let me know how the movie comes out. And you

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know the movie the dvd.

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Speaker 5: They are preparing premiering the movie this weekend, but it

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is also available for purchase on DVD. Do you know

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the website where it's available, No, but.

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Speaker 1: I'll get it for next week once it's said the premiere.

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I know he started doing some pre sales on it

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and I don't have that information. It's a it's an

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interesting I had it written down and I actually don't

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have it with me right now, but I'll make sure

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I have it for the listeners next week.

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Speaker 4: Okay, great.

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Speaker 5: You know, we've got a couple of other things that

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are coming up to as we've mentioned before, and I'll

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be promoting this for the next couple of months that

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this June, Phenomenology one oh seven is coming back to

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Pennsylvania outside of Gettysburg in York, Pennsylvania, and that'll be

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June eighteenth through the twenty first. You can go to

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their website at phenom Events dot com to get tickets

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get a full lineup. They've got a lot of great guests,

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a lot of big names in the paranormal and one

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of the things they're really focusing on this year are

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those people who have experienced the extreme hauntings, and they're

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having the survivors from the Amityville Horror House, the original

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children from the Amityville Horror the family from the haunting

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in Connecticut that they made the movie about the movie,

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the conjuring they have that family will be there as well,

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our good friend Bill Bean and and so many other

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people that have had these extreme hauntings. So that's the

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theme for this year. And they've got a lot of

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great guests. So you can go to Phenom Events dot

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com see the full lineup, get tickets, get your hotel information. Uh,

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you know, we've been there for the last several years.

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It's really a fun event and it's a lot it's

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it's a great time. You learn so much, get to

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interact with everybody, especially in the vendor room. There's always

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so much going on in the vendor room, the lectures,

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there's you know, ghost hunts, a lot of different things.

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So definitely check it out. If you need more information

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on that, again, Phenom Events dot com, or you can

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even feel free to contact us at Unknown Origins Radio

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dot com and we can give you some more information.

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Also wanted to point out on a personal note, really

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excited to announce that today we launched with glannet Tye Public.

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We launched a brand new book and we're very excited

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about this. We have a new author who came on

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were today. His name is Barry Durham. He's an author

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out of the UK and he has previously self published

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a series of novels based on the Demdike Witches the

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Pendle which was you know in here in America when

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we think of witches, we think of the Salem Witch Trials. Well,

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in England they had their own version back in sixteen

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oh two, which was the Pendle Witches, which were a

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lot of people who were unfairly accused of witchcraft had

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their homes and their properties seized by the town or

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the state. It was a really scandal at the time.

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And Barry who has written a wonderful novel called The

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Demdike Legacy, and it's actually a paranormal mystery novel. It's

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a detective novel with a paranormal edge to it and

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dealing with some survivors of the descendants of the original

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Pendle Witches and someone is killing off and they have

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to buy band together with the police to solve this murder.

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Speaker 4: I've read the book.

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Speaker 5: It is really phenomenal and we're really happy to have

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him on board. So that book launches today with glannet

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Tye and is now available on our website at Glennettie

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dot com and it's also available on Amazon dot com

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and softcover and kindle format. We're actually going to try

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to get Barry on the show here coming up in

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the near future because you know, you know, as an author,

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he's also a lecturer and he is he has a

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great fascination for the history of England with the Pendle

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witches and the witchcraft of the area, and I think

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it'd be a great topic for the show.

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Speaker 4: So we'll see what.

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Speaker 5: We can do to get Barry on here in the

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near future. But definitely check out the book glennety dot

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or Amazon The dem Dyke Legacy.

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Speaker 4: Great book.

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Speaker 1: Well, congratulations to you and Irene also, and you guys

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are really growing and leaps and bounce with the media

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empire as I call it.

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Speaker 5: You know, you know, we start off small little steps

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and things are just happening, and we're just really really

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excited about it. I mean, what makes me happy for

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it And I'm not trying to turn this into a

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self commercial here, but what I really enjoy doing is

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helping other people get their stuff out there and published

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and in the public eye. And that's what makes me

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feel good, is getting somebody who normally wouldn't be able

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to get their work out there and seen by the public.

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You know, we help them publish, get their books out there.

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We've worked out some distribution deals. We're going to be

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hopefully our books are going to be in a lot

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of the major bookstores here very soon. So we've got

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a lot of things going and it's really been taken

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off and it just makes me feel good that these

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types of book, these really good books that people out

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there writing, get to see the light of day that

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they may not have with the traditional publishing companies.

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Speaker 1: Well that's true, and there's a lot of good stories

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that need to be told. So yeah, I'm looking forward

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to reading this latest one you get out as soon

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as I get a copy of my hands or get

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an e book, And it sounds like a fascinating premise.

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So look forward to having him on the air too.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, it'll be good.

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Speaker 5: I just got to work out the time difference because

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he's in England, so well, we'll see what we can

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put together. But you know, on that note, I think

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it's time to get on with our show tonight.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 5: We're really excited to welcome back tonight's guest. He was

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on the show before just a few months ago. We

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had such a great time talking to him that we

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had to bring him back on the show because we

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certainly did not get anywhere near to being able to

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talk about everything we wanted to talk about that first time.

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So we want to talk to welcome our guest, mister

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Butch Witkowski. And Butch is the director at the UFO

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Research Center of Pennsylvania. He's had a lot of years

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experience with researching UFOs, the paranormal and even encryptid encounters

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throughout the state of Pennsylvania. So Butch, welcome to the program.

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Speaker 1: How are you tonight, I'm fine, Thanks for having me

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back on.

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Speaker 5: Well, thanks for coming on. And I know we were

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actually talking a little bit. We already started some conversations

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before the show and I had to stop and say, wait, wait,

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this is great stuff.

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Speaker 4: We need to save it for the show.

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Speaker 5: But you know, we always seem to have us to

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talk about. Just briefly, just for those people who may

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not have heard you on our show before and want

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to come back, you know, and are listening to for

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the first time, can you just give our listeners just

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a brief background of your background and how you got

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into the UFO research.

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Speaker 1: Sure, I've been in it now this is my twenty

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sixtyear I believe started out with seeing something in the

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sky I couldn't explain. While I was standing there with

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other people, called the local police, sheriff's department, air Force base,

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everything I could think of, radio stations, TV stations, and

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I watched the object that was a good three hundred

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feet long, at least six seven stories high, bronze and color,

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a couple of pale green lights on the side, just

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hovering above a mountain in Tucson, Arizona. My neighbor across

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the street was standing outside looking at it also. He

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was at that time director of Federal Prisons for the

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tough for the state of Arizona and other western states.

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And my other neighbor was a retired highway patrol officer.

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And we all looked at it and we couldn't come

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up with anything. It just hovered. It was silent, There

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was no electronics bothered or anything like that, and it

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just covered up very silently a little maybe fifteen hundred

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two thousand feet high, and shot off to the like

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a bullet. I've never seen anything that day. I could

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probably see a bullet faster got involved in trying to

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find out what it was. Of course, you know, when

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you start out, you just collect books and a lot

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of paper, and I really didn't have any directions. So

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I joined MUFON, became a state section director and a

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chief investigator start team member with them. After a few years,

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decided that it wasn't quite going the way I wanted

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it to go, so I started the UFO Research Center

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in Pennsylvania in two thousand and nine. We have twelve groups.

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We have one in two in Europe, one in England,

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and one in Poland, and the ten remaining are in

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the state different states in the United States. They're all

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long time researchers. Their backgrounds are very varied, from helicopter

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pilot to federal investigator to abduction researchers, psychics, you know,

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the whole gamut, UFO researchers, crypto researchers, ghost hunters. And

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it seemed to work out a whole lot better because

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now instead of just you know, struggling with one report,

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I have all these people I can throw a report

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out to and count on their experiences in their backgrounds

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to help decipher something that may be given me an

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issue or giving them an issue. We'd publish a monthly

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magazine on the net on our website called JAR, which

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is a journal for Abnormal Abduction Research, which was started

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originally in two thousand and six, I believe by Elady Douglas,

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who passed away a year ago, and I talked to

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her to get it up and running again, and which

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I did, and it's a bi monthly thing. Unfortunately, she

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died two days before it came out. She was a

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longtime researcher twenty six years. Boy, she was a hard lady.

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She was something to deal with. And the group is

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continued to grow new members. We have a cold case unit,

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four gentlemen that really I don't even tell anybody their names.

250
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They just go about doing their business on cold cases,

251
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which really works out really well. You know, when you

252
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walk up to somebody and you're trying to get some

253
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information and you tell them you're from such and such

254
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a UFO group or whatever group, you know, they get

255
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tight lipped or they just walk away laughing or whatever.

256
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This way, they can get involved in a conversation with

257
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that person and the person has no idea really who

258
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they're talking to or what they're talking about, and they're

259
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just telling you the truth. Usually and it's helped us

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a great deal in a couple of cases that we're

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working on now. We don't publish a case completed until

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we're done with it. Those are on our website also.

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And I guess the longest case, the shortest case that

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we ever worked on was probably about a year and

265
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a half. Most of them run between a year and well,

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the one is running into what it's sixty year now,

267
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But that's pretty much. It's just a pretty diverse group

268
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of people that are really good at what they do

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and helps us a lot. We help a lot of

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other people and groups with information, database information or you know,

271
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our mole units. We have two of those. So it's

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just took something very small and made it into something

273
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very workable, I guess is the best way to put it.

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Speaker 5: You know, a lot of us have done that. You know,

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we've done that with our paranormal group here in New Jersey.

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You know, you got to start from somewhere, and it's

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those groups that can grow and develop from there. I

278
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mean there's a lot of groups that come and go

279
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real quick, a lot of people who are into it

280
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just for a quick thrill, and then there are the

281
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longtime researchers who stay in and really start to make

282
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a difference in the in the community and with the research.

283
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Your group is definitely one of those, you know, and

284
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getting into some of the topics that we wanted to

285
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cover tonight, I know we started talking about some of

286
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,879
them off air. We and there's so many that I

287
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that I can look at us going into and talking

288
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about tonight. But one of the things we started talking

289
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a little bit off air is encryptids. And I know

290
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you've done some cryptid research as well, and you know,

291
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we were talking a little bit off air about the

292
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differences between you know, people who look at cryptids as

293
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just undiscovered animals and then the paranormal.

294
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Speaker 4: Side of it.

295
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Speaker 5: So I was wondering if you could talk about some

296
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of a couple of the cryptid cases that you've worked on.

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Speaker 1: Well, the most recent case I think is probably the

298
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strangest one because we got it about two months ago.

299
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And this is a gentleman who's grown up in that area,

300
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hunted that area state game land was walking is too

301
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wime around the dogs, as he always did up a

302
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fire lane. For somebody doesn't understand what a fire lane

303
00:17:05,279 --> 00:17:07,039
in is just a path for fire trucks to come

304
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in case there's a forest fire and nothing exciting happening.

305
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Leaves the truck with the dogs and has them on

306
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leashes and up the road they go, and about one

307
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,720
hundred and fifty yards away from the truck, these dogs

308
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freak out. They go absolutely bananas. They start ripping and

309
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tearing at the leashes. They're trying to get away from

310
00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:29,079
him their head and they want a head to the woods.

311
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And he doesn't see anything. He doesn't see any animals

312
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or anything like that. And the dogs are at it

313
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that bad that they are actually digging a hole with

314
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their front paws, trying to get away from him to

315
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get to whatever he didn't see. And then as he

316
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looks up, he sees this entity creature, whatever you want

317
00:17:47,519 --> 00:17:49,640
to call it, walk out of the walk out of

318
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,720
the right hand side of the road, out of the woods.

319
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He describes it as about seven foot tall, could be

320
00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,200
a little larger. Looked like a large man. It did

321
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,680
not resemble bigfoot or sasquatch in any way. It had

322
00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:12,119
normal arm's legs, but very muscular, short, dark brown or

323
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,880
black hair covering the body, and no tail, no protruding

324
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ears that he could see, and The thing that's struck

325
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:25,880
him as being the oddest thing out of a very

326
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,039
odd situation was it had a snout. And when he

327
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says a snout, I asked him what he meant by that,

328
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like long dog snout, wolf something like that. He said, no,

329
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,519
more like you'd see on a bulldog or a pug.

330
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But it was a protruding snout. And it walked across

331
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the road, walked into the other side, and the dogs

332
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are still going bananas, and just goes out of sight.

333
00:18:56,559 --> 00:18:59,119
So he calms the dogs down enough to go down

334
00:18:59,319 --> 00:19:01,160
and get him back to the truck, which he does.

335
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,039
He retrieves a handgun, goes back up, can see exactly

336
00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:06,440
where he was because of the hole in the ground

337
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from the dogs. Walks into the woods on the right

338
00:19:09,319 --> 00:19:12,440
hand side, sees nothing. He walks in the left hand side,

339
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,319
sees nothing. The oddest part to him was, now, this

340
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,559
guy's retired airline commercial pilot and Air Force pilot of

341
00:19:19,599 --> 00:19:23,039
forty years, so he knows what he's looking at. He said,

342
00:19:23,039 --> 00:19:26,920
it never looked at us, myself or the dogs. He said,

343
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it walked straight ahead, paid no mind, like we were

344
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,880
never there. So he said, I don't know if I

345
00:19:34,039 --> 00:19:39,799
saw an actual thing, or it was an apparition, or

346
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,279
he said, I just don't know what to say. So

347
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he got back to me later that evening and he

348
00:19:45,599 --> 00:19:47,400
said he was going to get some friends together and

349
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,160
they were going to go look the area up and

350
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take the camera and whatever and see if they could

351
00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:57,240
find any trace tracks, footprints. So they go there and

352
00:19:57,279 --> 00:19:59,160
he said, we're right at the spot because there's the

353
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hole from the dogs. And they walk into the right

354
00:20:01,279 --> 00:20:03,000
hand side of the woods. Now, these guys are pretty

355
00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:06,680
much armed to the teeth high powered rifles the whole

356
00:20:06,759 --> 00:20:09,200
nine yards, which I told him that was not really

357
00:20:09,279 --> 00:20:13,960
a good idea. But they walked in to the right side,

358
00:20:14,039 --> 00:20:16,799
walked back in about fifteen hundred yards and see anything.

359
00:20:17,079 --> 00:20:21,359
No broken trees, branches or nothing like that. They walked

360
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back out. They all walk into the left side of

361
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the road, to the other side of the road. They

362
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,519
get in about fifty yards and he said, we all stopped.

363
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,799
We all looked at each other and it was time

364
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to get out of the dodge. And I said, what

365
00:20:35,319 --> 00:20:38,000
do you mean And he said, look, he said, I'm

366
00:20:38,039 --> 00:20:39,759
never going back there again. He said, I don't know

367
00:20:39,759 --> 00:20:41,960
what's in there. I don't know what it was. I

368
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,200
can't describe the feeling other than total fear, even though

369
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,400
I was standing there with a high powered weapon in

370
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,480
my hand. He said, all I know is we all

371
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,119
had the same feeling at the same time, and we

372
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:52,799
all got back to the truck and went home. And

373
00:20:52,799 --> 00:20:54,920
I'm never going back there again as long as I live.

374
00:20:56,279 --> 00:21:00,599
So I checked with some other research that are close

375
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:06,519
to that area, and they related similar reports of not

376
00:21:06,599 --> 00:21:12,200
so much the creature, but of people that were with

377
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,359
them while they were doing a research investigation who came

378
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,720
out of the woods, shaken, you know, tail white, and

379
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,359
just left, not to be coming back. And he said

380
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:31,039
that happened twice. So what is it. I have no idea.

381
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,200
When the weather breaks and I don't freeze to death,

382
00:21:34,279 --> 00:21:37,160
just walk into my truck. We are going to go

383
00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:39,720
up there and spend the weekend and see what we

384
00:21:39,799 --> 00:21:43,640
can find. I know where the location is. He gave

385
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,599
me a road. He didn't give me an exact location,

386
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,440
but he told me the road where the gate was.

387
00:21:47,599 --> 00:21:49,680
And when I checked with the other researchers, they said, yes,

388
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,039
we know where that gate is. We know where that

389
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,720
road is. So I'm pretty much sure I can get

390
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,640
to the same location or you know, within that general area.

391
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,000
But I have no explanation for it. I put it

392
00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:04,160
out on the web page, I put it out on Facebook.

393
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,759
I put everywhere I could think of, and nobody can

394
00:22:08,799 --> 00:22:13,200
back with anything because it does not look like a bigfoot.

395
00:22:13,279 --> 00:22:17,279
It's the neck wasn't broad, the head wasn't pointy. I mean,

396
00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:21,119
the arms weren't extra long. It wasn't a huge, huge,

397
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,160
eight ten foot, you know. He said it was a

398
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,000
good seven foot, maybe a little taller. But he said

399
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,119
it walked just like a man. It didn't lumber along.

400
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,599
And he said it just walked across the road like

401
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,000
we were not there and we didn't exist.

402
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 5: Was it covered in hair like a bigfoot?

403
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:42,279
Speaker 1: Or very short, very short dark brown or black hair,

404
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:50,279
no clothing, no swinging arms, he said it just He said,

405
00:22:50,319 --> 00:22:52,200
you would took the hair off the thing and put

406
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,079
him in a suit and had him walk across wouldn't

407
00:22:54,079 --> 00:22:58,079
been any different than a tall man. So and now

408
00:22:58,759 --> 00:23:00,759
I know there's this big flat going on in the

409
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:08,160
in the crypozoology bigfoot realm of interdimensional beings and humanoid

410
00:23:08,319 --> 00:23:16,880
or animal bigfoot. But I can't go either way on it.

411
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,279
I have to keep an open mind on this because,

412
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:26,440
first of all, you know, without having you know, just

413
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,119
a great story told to me and other people kind

414
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,079
of backing up the story with what they said, it's

415
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:38,880
still not evidence of what happened. I can't say it's interdimensional.

416
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,279
I don't know if anybody could ever say what's interdimensional

417
00:23:42,319 --> 00:23:45,480
and what's not. I mean, that's all kind of speculation

418
00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:49,559
at this point, you know, like parallel worlds and all

419
00:23:49,559 --> 00:23:53,440
that stuff that all very well may be, but you know,

420
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,839
there's not enough there to grasp onto to say, well, yeah,

421
00:23:56,839 --> 00:23:59,720
that's what it was. And there's not enough to grasp

422
00:23:59,759 --> 00:24:02,599
onto that that yes, that was a bigfoot or some

423
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,200
related creature. Now, one other thing to throw into the pot,

424
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:13,279
which was very disturbing, was through other researchers in that area.

425
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:19,279
They were doing an investigation, and they were walking up

426
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,640
an area close by, maybe a mile or two away,

427
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,720
and it was getting dark, and out of the woods

428
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:31,240
strolls a guy in military garb. Now I don't mean

429
00:24:32,039 --> 00:24:34,160
the stuff he buys your local army and navy. This

430
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:40,079
guy had everything, full automatic weapon, all new gear, you know,

431
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,200
the gear that is issued now. And looked at them

432
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,279
and they looked at him, and they both looked as

433
00:24:46,319 --> 00:24:48,960
surprised as at each other, and the guy said, I'm

434
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,720
just hunting some bear and turned around and walked back

435
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,160
into the woods and he disappeared. Uh huh. Now that's strange.

436
00:24:55,519 --> 00:24:58,400
That is really strange. Now, not too far from that

437
00:24:58,519 --> 00:25:06,119
area is Ssylvania had a nuclear reactor that sits right

438
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,640
in the middle of a state game lands. It's a

439
00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:15,319
forbidden area, you know. It's all blocked off and closed

440
00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:19,559
down in the early late nineteen ninety eight or ninety nine,

441
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,759
and the license was pulled in two thousand and one

442
00:25:21,839 --> 00:25:26,119
or two. But it was put there early on in

443
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:31,720
the sixties to develop nuclear engines for private aircraft. And

444
00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:36,799
so who knows what's going on. You know, it's one

445
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,599
of those things where without going and looking and snooping

446
00:25:39,599 --> 00:25:42,920
around and sticking my head where it don't belong, you know,

447
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,759
at this point, really all I have is a story.

448
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,680
I mean, I have no I have some inroads to

449
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:55,559
information that's been gathered. But as far as saying what

450
00:25:55,599 --> 00:25:59,039
it was he saw, was it interdimensional? Did it walk

451
00:25:59,079 --> 00:26:02,759
across the it didn't see them, or he didn't see it.

452
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,079
So but the dogs, he said, are very docile. He's

453
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,279
had them since pupps. He said, they've never reacted like that.

454
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,920
And he said they saw long before I did. He

455
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,759
said there was a good two or three minutes before

456
00:26:15,799 --> 00:26:18,960
that thing stepped out out of the woods. And he

457
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,920
said they already knew it was there beforehand. And at

458
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,680
first he thought, you know, it was a skunk or

459
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,480
bear or fear or something. But he said when that

460
00:26:27,559 --> 00:26:29,359
walked out. I asked him what he did. He said,

461
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,599
I just froze and started staring at it and watching it.

462
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,240
He said, I didn't know what it was. I don't

463
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,720
know what it was going to do. And I said, well,

464
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,119
what would you have done had it turned you know

465
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,640
the face? You had to let the dogs go. I said, well, yeah,

466
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,880
good idea. But that's very strange. That's a very strange case.

467
00:26:46,759 --> 00:26:49,160
I've tried to find other cases that mimic it, and

468
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,640
I can't find any. I can't even find something that

469
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,640
matches the description of the creature that he described.

470
00:26:57,279 --> 00:27:01,279
Speaker 5: You know, there's a lot more are strange things going

471
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,759
on out there, and not only in this country but

472
00:27:03,839 --> 00:27:07,880
in other countries, of cryptids that people see that are

473
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,640
just simply not undiscovered.

474
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 4: Animals.

475
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,759
Speaker 5: They're just they look like some type of being, in

476
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,440
some cases possibly intelligent beings.

477
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:19,319
Speaker 4: I'll just bring it up.

478
00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 5: I asked her if she wanted to come on the air,

479
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:22,920
and she doesn't want to come on the air to

480
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,000
talk about it. But you know, before we were on

481
00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:29,079
the show, my business partner Irene alan Block was talking

482
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,279
about to you about these creatures that she saw in

483
00:27:33,319 --> 00:27:37,519
her garden once in her house in Wales that looked

484
00:27:37,599 --> 00:27:42,599
like what we could only describe as the if you

485
00:27:42,759 --> 00:27:45,400
think of the movie Predator when the predator was cloaked,

486
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,119
but you could still kind of see that outline even

487
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,200
though it was cloaked, and it looked something exactly like that.

488
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,119
There were two of them, two creatures, and she actually

489
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,119
watched one walk right up to her and then when

490
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,440
she said something or made some movement that she let

491
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,160
it know she could see it, it froze and then

492
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,160
slowly backed up and walked away. And you know, you

493
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,519
start to think about that. You know what somebody thinks

494
00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:13,440
that right away. The first thought they would think is, well, aliens, well.

495
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 4: Are you well, how do you know?

496
00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: Yeah?

497
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,279
Speaker 4: Exactly, you don't.

498
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: Know, no, And if you don't keep an open mind,

499
00:28:20,559 --> 00:28:24,319
doing this research and investigation and take everything into consideration,

500
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,079
you're just beating a dead horse. You might as well

501
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,319
just sit in your living room and watch cartoons. Because

502
00:28:31,079 --> 00:28:33,759
when you get a report like this where there is

503
00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:38,039
no explanation, and not only do you have the person

504
00:28:38,079 --> 00:28:41,759
that sees the entity, but you have buddies that go

505
00:28:41,839 --> 00:28:44,559
with in the next day, and they all get this

506
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,400
same feeling to get out of dodge. You know, we

507
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,279
need to leave, and we need to leave now. And

508
00:28:49,359 --> 00:28:52,839
yet they're standing there, fully armed that they could probably

509
00:28:52,839 --> 00:28:56,440
take on anything that came at them. Just said that's it,

510
00:28:56,559 --> 00:28:58,759
We're not staying, and you know, they just all went

511
00:28:58,839 --> 00:29:00,720
and they all I said to myself, well, what did

512
00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:03,119
one guy say something? And another guy he said no,

513
00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:06,279
we all stopped at the same time. And I said,

514
00:29:06,279 --> 00:29:08,920
what did you feel? He said the only best way

515
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,759
I can tell you, butch He said it was fear,

516
00:29:11,559 --> 00:29:16,160
unbridled fear, and we knew we had to leave. And

517
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,920
I went okay. And then talking to other researchers, they

518
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,680
had that happened twice twice to people that were with them.

519
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,599
Like I said, one came running out of the woods

520
00:29:25,599 --> 00:29:28,079
for no reason, stone white and just kept on going,

521
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,599
and another group that was with them one time they

522
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,680
had the same thing, and they decided they were going

523
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,680
to leave because they never said what they saw, they

524
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,720
never said what they felt. They just said, we can't

525
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,279
be here right now. We've got to go. Are these

526
00:29:43,279 --> 00:29:46,559
folks seeing what are they dealing with? What's walking around

527
00:29:46,559 --> 00:29:51,480
in these woods or people's homes or whatever. It's it's

528
00:29:51,519 --> 00:29:56,079
something that's not explainable. The first thing I thought of, well,

529
00:29:56,079 --> 00:29:58,759
maybe you know, you hear a lot about dog man

530
00:29:58,839 --> 00:30:03,119
and the Brian seech out in western Pennsylvania and his

531
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,240
wife do a lot of work on that, and I

532
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,480
haven't talked to him about this case yet, but I should,

533
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,599
I guess. But the descriptions don't match. I mean, the

534
00:30:12,079 --> 00:30:14,519
dog men are seen on four on, running on all

535
00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:17,640
fours or on hind legs, and they resemble a dog.

536
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,200
They have the long snout, you know, kind of like

537
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,599
weirwolf looking. He said this, No, he said, this did

538
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,599
not look like that. He said, this looked like a man.

539
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,240
The head was the same as a man, except for

540
00:30:27,359 --> 00:30:31,119
this protruding snout, which he described as probably like a

541
00:30:31,119 --> 00:30:35,359
bulldog that not long but not short, but kind of

542
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,839
just protruding, and he said it never really looked at me.

543
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,039
He said, it just walked out, walked across the road,

544
00:30:43,079 --> 00:30:44,920
and one on the other side and that was it.

545
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,400
So again, what are we dealing with now?

546
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,559
Speaker 5: You know, the one thing that you mentioned about, they

547
00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:55,920
all felt this intense sphere. There's two things on that

548
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,279
that I want to comment on in the research that

549
00:30:58,319 --> 00:31:01,039
I've done in people I've talked with, you know, in

550
00:31:01,119 --> 00:31:07,279
some bigfoot cases, there has been some theories that that Bigfoot,

551
00:31:07,559 --> 00:31:12,160
possibly as other creatures, use a version of infrasound and

552
00:31:12,319 --> 00:31:18,759
are able to generate an infrasound that actually causes people

553
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,880
to feel fear and it's used as a defense mechanism

554
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,839
to get people to turn and leave. But if you

555
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,839
also look in UFO cases, UFO cases, people who have

556
00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:35,720
gone through what we would think of as the abduction experience,

557
00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:40,680
you know, so many of them feel this overwhelming sense

558
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:46,039
of absolute sheer terror. Whitley Strieber in his books he

559
00:31:46,559 --> 00:31:50,839
always described, you know, the absolute sheer, mindless terror that

560
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,000
he would feel during these situations, and to the point

561
00:31:55,079 --> 00:31:58,440
where it seems like a lot of people, if they

562
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,079
start to think about it, realizing that the terror almost

563
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:07,000
is artificial, like they're being made to feel that way.

564
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,240
And you know, maybe in this case, when these hunters

565
00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:13,799
see this creature and they feel this terror, maybe it

566
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,119
is a form either a type of infrasound, that is,

567
00:32:18,279 --> 00:32:20,799
you know, that it's being used as a defense mechanism

568
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,440
to keep you know, keep danger away, or maybe even

569
00:32:25,559 --> 00:32:27,920
if you if you look on the paranormal side, maybe

570
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,720
a psychic level that they're able to manipulate people's emotions,

571
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:34,920
just like I think is what happens sometimes in these

572
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:41,559
abduction scenarios where emotions are controlled to a certain extent

573
00:32:42,079 --> 00:32:43,000
for whatever reason.

574
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,359
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there are you know, there are a lot

575
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,680
of cases that are out there. I'm sure you've read

576
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,799
and Bruce is read and I know I've read where

577
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:55,599
you know, people start talking about telepathy and they're told

578
00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:57,680
not to go there, or not to do this, or

579
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,599
not to be afraid or whatever, and they don't know

580
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,000
who they're talking to. They don't see anybody. You have

581
00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:10,400
folks that sasquatch hunters in the northwestern part of the

582
00:33:10,519 --> 00:33:13,160
United States that have done the same thing. You know,

583
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,359
they're sitting by a campfire or they're getting their packed

584
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,319
together and next thing you know, they get this feeling

585
00:33:20,359 --> 00:33:24,359
of I need to leave, and they either leave equipment

586
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,000
or they grab their gear and they just take off

587
00:33:27,319 --> 00:33:31,319
and they have no explanation for it. It's just they

588
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,480
just like you said, it could be a defense mechanism,

589
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,920
which does make a lot of sense if there's if

590
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,880
there's not going to be any one on one contact

591
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,640
and they have that ability to put into somebody's mind

592
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,319
you need to leave now or you or think bad

593
00:33:49,359 --> 00:33:53,400
things are going to happen or whatever. I mean, it's logical.

594
00:33:53,559 --> 00:33:57,720
I mean it makes sense. But again, you know, it's

595
00:33:57,759 --> 00:34:05,039
it's such a dark area, uh, and these cases of

596
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,800
people seeing entities, whether they're dark shadows in a room

597
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,000
or they are clouds on a ceiling that dissipate, or

598
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:22,880
beings shaped, beings that are almost looked translucent. I mean,

599
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,320
this is there are so many weird things going on,

600
00:34:25,519 --> 00:34:27,760
and really this stuff has only come out in the

601
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:32,280
last two years that you know, people are coming forward

602
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,519
with this stuff and they're scared to death. I mean

603
00:34:35,519 --> 00:34:37,119
they don't they don't even want to talk about it.

604
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:38,639
Like this guy here, he said when he was done

605
00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:41,320
talking to me, he said, that's it. He said, I'm finished.

606
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,039
I told you everything I have. Everything happened. This is

607
00:34:44,079 --> 00:34:46,440
the way it happened. He said, do with it as

608
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,400
you please, he said, just be careful. That was it.

609
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,159
That was the end of the story.

610
00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:53,679
Speaker 4: You know what, if you look turn it around.

611
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 5: You know there's people who have these experiences being in

612
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,960
an area and then they get do overfilm overwhelming feeling that.

613
00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 4: They have to leave.

614
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,159
Speaker 5: What about those people in UFO cases who get the

615
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:07,639
overwhelming feeling to turn down this dark road, yeah and

616
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:08,119
do something.

617
00:35:08,199 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it works both ways. I mean, I mean there

618
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,920
are cases where and this long before GPS is that

619
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,840
put you on the wrong road where people said, you know,

620
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,840
they were driving home, driving home, the same way that

621
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,519
they went every day all their lives, and they had

622
00:35:25,559 --> 00:35:29,320
this overwhelming feeling to make a right hand turning up

623
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,760
this road, or go up this highway and then make

624
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,079
another turn, and you know they were being directed to

625
00:35:34,119 --> 00:35:37,239
go somewhere. And then of course then whatever happens happens

626
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,079
with the abduction scenario. But yeah, that's that's happened a

627
00:35:41,159 --> 00:35:48,119
lot back at a couple of details this area, and

628
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,119
it was in Pennsylvania where they had the nuclear reactors supposedly, yes,

629
00:35:52,159 --> 00:35:55,039
oh yeah, oh yeah, and what area of pency was

630
00:35:55,079 --> 00:36:01,159
that it's in Let me see here, it's between two counties,

631
00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:04,199
but it's it's actually between Center and clear Fuel. It

632
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,760
takes in It's right, it's right between them. There's a

633
00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:10,039
huge state game land, and I mean it's huge. It's

634
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,840
there's a lot of thousands of acres and dead center

635
00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:22,440
in this uh uh area since this uh let me

636
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,960
pull my file up here while I'm talking about this. Uh,

637
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:31,000
it's it was actually started as just a research center

638
00:36:31,079 --> 00:36:35,519
for development of different types of engines for aircraft and

639
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:46,440
it went on for a while. I understand that it

640
00:36:46,559 --> 00:36:52,079
was not very a lot of let's put it this way,

641
00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:53,519
A lot of money was poured into it and they

642
00:36:53,559 --> 00:36:56,719
got a lot of nothing out of it, Okay, And

643
00:36:59,039 --> 00:37:04,440
uh the folks that were running it were uh military

644
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:13,960
and uh like homing aircraft and they were trying to

645
00:37:14,039 --> 00:37:23,239
attach a nuclear device, a nuclear engine to a small aircraft.

646
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,679
And this would have been for commercial use, not military use,

647
00:37:26,679 --> 00:37:31,639
because they already had it. Uh. And the area is

648
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,480
the Quehanna Wildlife Area if people want to look that up.

649
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,480
It's q U E h A n n A. It's uh.

650
00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:45,360
It borders three counties Cameron, Clearfield and Elk And if

651
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,159
you just do a wiki on it, I'm sure it's

652
00:37:47,199 --> 00:37:48,559
in wiki. If you do a wiki on it, they

653
00:37:48,599 --> 00:37:51,400
actually show you a map and they show you the

654
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:57,639
restricted zone which is right inside this huge and it's

655
00:37:57,679 --> 00:38:01,360
a huge gang land. What's a city. So for reference

656
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:07,920
for listeners that the nearest city would be let's see,

657
00:38:10,559 --> 00:38:13,239
let me look here once the nearest city he would be.

658
00:38:13,519 --> 00:38:15,039
And while you're doing that, let me let me explain

659
00:38:15,079 --> 00:38:20,239
to your context. Ironically, one of the jobs that Stanton

660
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:27,039
Freeman had was working on nuclear power plants for aircraft.

661
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,199
I believe it was in the fifties, you know, because

662
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:35,239
he trained as a nuclear physicist. But it's interesting because

663
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,360
you know that was I believe with hype and they

664
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,719
may be mistaken, but I just found that interesting that

665
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,159
they were trying to develop a nuclear actor to be

666
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,440
used for aircraft propulsion. And there is really no small

667
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,119
towns around there, but they are all broken up into township.

668
00:38:50,159 --> 00:38:53,880
So if somebody would look up Benezette Township, b N

669
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,960
E Z E T T E or Covington, they would

670
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,320
find it. But if they very weak documentation on the

671
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,880
web about this soci if they go to the Quihana

672
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,800
Wildlife on Wikipedia, the whole story is there. It's forty

673
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:12,840
eight thousand acres. Pretty good piece. Yeah, And it was

674
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:19,760
the people that were actually running it. Curtis Wright Corporation

675
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,840
bought like eighty square miles of state forest for research

676
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,840
in nuclear power jet engines. And of course you have

677
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,559
the west branch of the Susquehanna River close by for water.

678
00:39:30,679 --> 00:39:37,800
So but I guess they started finding some of the

679
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,760
radioactive isotopes up there. They were like stordium ninety and

680
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:49,400
cobalt sixty. And it continued into two thousand and two.

681
00:39:49,679 --> 00:39:52,280
It cost thirty million dollars to build, and then the

682
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,039
nuclear license was terminated in two thousand and nine. Wow,

683
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:01,199
not long ago, No, but it's it's a restricted area

684
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,800
and it's on the map on Wikipedia shows you the

685
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:08,760
restricted area. That's a fascinating story. I mean then and

686
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,679
of itself. Was one group up there actually a research

687
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:18,079
Bigfoot research group in that area lives close by, and

688
00:40:18,199 --> 00:40:20,119
they had taken and found a course. They were there

689
00:40:20,159 --> 00:40:23,840
and found a core sample laying there, jeez, And they

690
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:28,400
took the core sample home. And the way the guy

691
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:29,760
was saying to me, he says, you know, we're looking

692
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,800
at this thing, and he says kind of weird looking.

693
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,519
And a babor came in and said, well, did anybody

694
00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:37,559
check this for radiation? And they said, well, no, we

695
00:40:37,599 --> 00:40:39,559
know that kind of equipment, and he said, well I do.

696
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,480
So he went home and came back and he said,

697
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,000
you need to bury this right now. He said, it

698
00:40:44,079 --> 00:40:47,119
almost pined the needle coach. I mean, if you got

699
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,519
that kind of stuff laying around, and and you know

700
00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:55,119
the isotopes that were using were strodium ninety and cobalt sixty,

701
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:57,440
I mean, all they would have had to do was

702
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,079
stay in the room with that core sample for a

703
00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:03,079
couple hours and they probably wouldn't be around. Yeah, I

704
00:41:03,079 --> 00:41:05,000
wouldn't stick that in your pocket and right around the

705
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,199
car for a couple of days, that's for sure. And

706
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,599
I forget what they said it costs to clean it up. Wow,

707
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:14,960
it was. It was outrageous the money. But because it

708
00:41:15,079 --> 00:41:21,880
was just there's radioactive and toxic wastes buried there, so beauty.

709
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,880
That's why they probably still haven't restricted I would think.

710
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,559
So that's probably a little Hanford site here for Pennsylvania

711
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,400
and that area. When we did some research on the

712
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:37,320
area that was really the biggest group of Susquehanna and

713
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,800
Iroquois Indians that lived in the United States lived in

714
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:47,239
that total that that wildlife area still lived there. I'm

715
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,840
sure that'll bode well for their health, probably into the

716
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,039
groundwater and everything else. Do you feel there's a correlation

717
00:41:54,159 --> 00:41:59,800
there for with uh, perhaps that that facility and what's

718
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,000
been sighted in the area with bigfoot? I'm kind of

719
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,840
putting it that way in my mind. You know, first

720
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,199
of all, you got the creature, and then you have

721
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,800
the military guy come stopping out of the woods hunting

722
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,519
bear not with an automatic rifle in this count in

723
00:42:17,519 --> 00:42:20,519
this state, and then you have this which is in

724
00:42:20,559 --> 00:42:26,079
you know, within a couple mile. It just it doesn't

725
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,599
make a whole lot of sense. I mean, if they

726
00:42:30,599 --> 00:42:33,599
were going to clean this place up, and they said

727
00:42:33,639 --> 00:42:36,119
they cleaned it up, why is it still a restricted

728
00:42:36,159 --> 00:42:40,960
area and fenced off in all that stuff that people

729
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,159
can pay as it guarded? I mean, are you aware

730
00:42:43,199 --> 00:42:45,880
of nobody nobody, no guards or anything like that. But

731
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,360
I mean it can't be that secure that these guys

732
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,960
could walk in and pick up a core sample. Wow.

733
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,000
I mean, so the other how many other people have

734
00:42:54,039 --> 00:42:55,960
taken a core sample and just like stuck in the

735
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,000
garage or maybe put it on the mantel and say, oh,

736
00:42:58,039 --> 00:43:00,840
I got this up with the old nuclear site or something.

737
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,360
I mean, if anybody's listening and they got any of

738
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:04,760
that stuff, they need to get rid of it and

739
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:11,920
bury it deep really quick because strodium ninety alone is very,

740
00:43:12,159 --> 00:43:17,159
very deadly, and add cobalt sixty to that, and I

741
00:43:17,199 --> 00:43:18,559
mean it's unbelievable.

742
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,760
Speaker 5: It's just amazing that that is left lying around. Yeah,

743
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,280
I mean, let's just not talk about the fact that

744
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:27,840
how irresponsible that is.

745
00:43:28,519 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: Well, not only that, but I saw some pictures. I

746
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,239
don't remember what I saw them. Now there's probably on

747
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,280
the internet, but I saw some pictures of the place

748
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,239
and it was graffiti on the walls. So if there's

749
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,960
graffiti on the walls, of course that means kids are

750
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,880
getting in there. So we got kids in there, and

751
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:48,360
we got live core samples laying around that have already

752
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,320
been tested to be positive. So this is not good.

753
00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:55,599
This is really not good. No, and who knows what,

754
00:43:55,679 --> 00:43:58,480
Like you said, what residual was in the ground and

755
00:43:58,519 --> 00:44:02,800
in the water for the water, you know, some poor

756
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,159
guy up there camping or doing some hunting because the

757
00:44:05,199 --> 00:44:07,559
hunting area around it is all open. So they go

758
00:44:07,679 --> 00:44:12,079
downstream and they fill up their canteen. They don't know

759
00:44:12,079 --> 00:44:15,719
what they're drinking. Well, the plumes they get into an aquifer,

760
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,840
I mean, you know, but this is not uncommon unfortunately

761
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,920
with the military and the US government. I mean, half

762
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:27,039
of Cape Cod's water supply is Philadoia do to drop

763
00:44:27,039 --> 00:44:31,239
in everything that you can think of Air Force Base

764
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,840
there on, and it's it's really a hot spot for

765
00:44:34,199 --> 00:44:38,960
campers and hikers in the summertime. There's no permanent residence

766
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,920
in that whole area. A lot of cross country skiing

767
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:48,519
in the winter. There are no vehicles allowed in the area.

768
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,519
But it's just and and one of the things, uh,

769
00:44:52,559 --> 00:44:54,960
the Autobahn Society hasn't listed as one of the most

770
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,079
important bird areas in the state of Pennsylvania. Oh that's good.

771
00:44:58,079 --> 00:45:01,519
It's easy to track them when they glow in the dark, exactly,

772
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,440
you know, Mark, But just not to get off on

773
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,679
this topic, but our wonderful garden state. You go down

774
00:45:06,679 --> 00:45:09,880
to Lakehurst and you know, they were dumping benzene and

775
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,400
every bloody other thing and into the you know, into

776
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,880
the ground out there, and they polluted most of the

777
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,480
water down around McGuire and Lakehurst in that whole area.

778
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 5: And there's a big scandal that the seventies wasn't there

779
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,159
or sure Love Canal or whatever it was.

780
00:45:27,639 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: The Philadelphia Navy are built built some of their docks

781
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,679
by taking drums, filling them with sand and hydraulic fluid

782
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,320
when they were refitting ships, burying the drums on top

783
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,400
of each other, and building bulkheads to add extra piers.

784
00:45:42,119 --> 00:45:44,079
And that's right along the Delaware River. So I mean,

785
00:45:44,119 --> 00:45:46,840
you could go on for hours of this this type

786
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:51,400
of environmental abuse. But you know, nuclear radiation. Not to

787
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,559
bring it in, but anybody who wants to check into

788
00:45:53,639 --> 00:45:58,079
nuclear uh, the problems with nuclear fallout just go type

789
00:45:58,119 --> 00:46:00,559
in on the internet. You take a look the plumes

790
00:46:00,559 --> 00:46:03,239
out of Fukushima. Oh if we ever heard of that.

791
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,519
That's been going on for four years now. I guess

792
00:46:05,519 --> 00:46:07,800
there's somewhat Yeah. I mean, if you want to go

793
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,639
back to what kind of damage is done from this

794
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,719
stuff being thrown around and gotten rid of before there

795
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:18,119
were actually loss against it, look at Love Canal, right,

796
00:46:18,679 --> 00:46:21,239
you know I've driven past that, and it's this this

797
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,320
whole town that's a ghost town of course, because they

798
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,199
were using polluted oil to keep the dust down on

799
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,400
the roads, the back roads and stuff. But it polluted everything, polluted,

800
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:37,119
the groundwater polluted, the local creeks got into the houses.

801
00:46:38,119 --> 00:46:42,920
The rate of cancers were unbelievable. And you know, I

802
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,280
know when we go up, we have radiation gear and

803
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,760
we have radiation detectors and isotope detectors and stuff, and

804
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:51,920
then I'll tell you what We're going to be dressed

805
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,840
to the kilt with everything, because I'm not taking any

806
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:54,480
kind of chance.

807
00:46:55,119 --> 00:46:58,199
Speaker 5: Well, you know, you bring up an interesting point because

808
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,800
not just with this type of investigation. I mean, we

809
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,199
talked with our good friend David Rowntree, and you know

810
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,119
some of the investigations he's been doing on the paranormal

811
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,920
side where he has been using his equipment and has

812
00:47:12,039 --> 00:47:16,039
actually been able to measure what he considers to be

813
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:22,800
singularities or Einstein rosenbridges opening by these gamma ray bursts

814
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,719
that seem to indicate in paranormal terms whether a portal

815
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:31,760
is opening. Activity seems to happen during those times. And

816
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,239
there were a couple of investigations that he did one

817
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,679
last year over at the Shanley Hotel where the gamma

818
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,360
rays that were coming off of that.

819
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 4: He was measuring.

820
00:47:43,559 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 5: We're starting to get to dangerous levels where they had

821
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,000
to keep people out of the rooms. So then it

822
00:47:48,039 --> 00:47:50,960
starts making you think, well, you know, these paranormal investigators

823
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,599
we go into places, and we're constantly doing these investigations,

824
00:47:54,639 --> 00:47:57,599
and we're going to all these paranormal spots, and the

825
00:47:57,639 --> 00:48:00,320
one piece of gear that we don't take with us, YEP,

826
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,400
is a something to measure the radiation.

827
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know it's get you know, I put

828
00:48:07,519 --> 00:48:10,679
on our website, on our upour coup website, on Facebook

829
00:48:11,159 --> 00:48:14,320
all the equipment that we carry, not all, but most

830
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:18,320
of it. And I had somebody send me a note

831
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,480
one time said well, why do you carry radiation gear?

832
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:25,039
Why would you carry radiation gear for paranormal investigations. I said,

833
00:48:25,079 --> 00:48:27,400
you should carry radiation gear no matter where you go.

834
00:48:27,599 --> 00:48:32,239
You spend almost one thousand dollars for an infrared camera

835
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,599
or a multi spectral spectrum camera, and you don't buy

836
00:48:36,679 --> 00:48:39,559
one hundred and fifty dollars radiation detector. Now what sense

837
00:48:39,599 --> 00:48:40,159
does that make?

838
00:48:41,679 --> 00:48:42,159
Speaker 4: Exactly?

839
00:48:42,519 --> 00:48:47,519
Speaker 1: I said, you got rd on't you've got residual radiation,

840
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,239
and you don't know what's underground. You don't know why

841
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,440
that house is abandoned. You don't know why people come

842
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,679
out of the house they don't feel well, or they're dizzy,

843
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,159
or they think they had some kind of contact with

844
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,880
a spirit. And you know, if you held a meter

845
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,639
up to them, they'd probably light up like a Christmas tree. So,

846
00:49:06,119 --> 00:49:08,519
you know, people need to really think about what they're

847
00:49:08,559 --> 00:49:11,119
doing and where they're going, especially the folks that go

848
00:49:11,119 --> 00:49:13,639
to these old factories and stuff. You know, you don't

849
00:49:13,679 --> 00:49:15,480
know what was done in those factories. I mean a

850
00:49:15,519 --> 00:49:18,280
lot of them were during the war. They made weapons,

851
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:22,960
they made bombs, they made bullets, I mean the chemicals

852
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,719
that were used. I mean the place could be polluted

853
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:27,760
with it. But you know, you're down there stomping around

854
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,159
the water and hoping to get a picture of a

855
00:49:30,199 --> 00:49:33,840
ghost or something, and you don't know what you're standing

856
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:38,320
in or what you're breathing. And you know, caution is

857
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,840
always the first thing in any investigation. I don't care

858
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:45,039
if it's UFOs or ghosts of paranormal sasquatch. If you're

859
00:49:45,079 --> 00:49:48,480
out there and you haven't taken the cautions to protect

860
00:49:48,519 --> 00:49:54,840
yourself and others that are with you now, shame on you. Well, yes,

861
00:49:55,119 --> 00:49:57,400
I think you know. I actually had this discussion a

862
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,679
couple of times with people said, you know, I can

863
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:06,159
remember in the UH I think it was called the

864
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:12,039
Levittown Lunatic Asylum. Here's a one hundred and fifty year

865
00:50:12,039 --> 00:50:18,559
old tunnel system. Just everything slathered in asbestos. You've got

866
00:50:18,599 --> 00:50:20,960
paint coming off the walls, which you know are filled

867
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:25,800
with lead, the dust, the mold in these wet, damp buildings,

868
00:50:26,519 --> 00:50:29,840
and everybody's trucking around, no mask on or anything. No,

869
00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:33,199
just the obvious hazards that are there in an old

870
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,639
building would be enough to make. And then you got

871
00:50:36,639 --> 00:50:39,519
people just you know, trotting along kicking up this dust

872
00:50:39,519 --> 00:50:42,159
and you're breathing it directly in over a period of

873
00:50:42,199 --> 00:50:44,320
six or eight US. And then what amazes me is,

874
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:45,960
you know, and I've gone out in a couple of

875
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:50,639
investigations with some other groups, and you know, they showed

876
00:50:50,639 --> 00:50:52,960
you their first aid kit, which is a little bigger

877
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,360
than a pack of cigarettes, right, and I'm going like,

878
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:57,679
come here, I want to shave something and take them

879
00:50:57,719 --> 00:50:59,159
over to the truck and open the truck and we say,

880
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:00,599
see that big blue I go up there, that's a

881
00:51:00,599 --> 00:51:03,400
trauma kit, right, I said, because if you fall and

882
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,559
break your leg, that little kit you have isn't going

883
00:51:05,599 --> 00:51:07,400
to mean anything. But that blue kid up there has

884
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:11,519
splints in it, right, or an air split or whatever. Paramedic,

885
00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:14,199
believe me, you're walking around old building with all kinds

886
00:51:14,199 --> 00:51:19,039
of junk laying around, sharp edges, rusted pipes. Yeah, there

887
00:51:19,079 --> 00:51:23,440
was a there was a guy, I believe. I think

888
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,559
it was a New Jersey group, Northern Northern New Jersey,

889
00:51:26,559 --> 00:51:31,079
I believe, where the guy walked into a nail. Yeah,

890
00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:34,000
and you know, uh, impaled himself on a nail that

891
00:51:34,159 --> 00:51:37,920
was sticking through a wall and didn't do anything about it.

892
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:39,639
Of course, got in effected. He damn near died. But

893
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,840
I mean he's okay. But just the fact that nobody

894
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,800
even had anything or thought to, you know, stop the

895
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,280
bleeding or try to control the bleeding, or had some

896
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:53,119
kind of antiseptic to apply, or or or or anything,

897
00:51:53,599 --> 00:51:55,719
or even take him to the hospital. Three days later

898
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:57,599
when he wakes up in his head swallowing up, you know,

899
00:51:57,679 --> 00:52:00,440
and then he goes to the hospital. So people need

900
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,320
to exhort caution a lot, whether it's there in the woods,

901
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,199
or they're in an old house or whatever. I mean,

902
00:52:08,679 --> 00:52:10,159
you know, you see these things on YouTube where the

903
00:52:10,159 --> 00:52:12,400
guys walk on the steps and the steps give it way.

904
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,239
Fortunately they catch themselves, but you know, there's got to

905
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:16,760
be somebody out there to win through the floor.

906
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 5: You know, I'm even watching in you know, my guilty

907
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:25,119
Pleasure show like Ghost Adventures. It's funny watching them now

908
00:52:25,199 --> 00:52:28,679
that they've been on for several seasons and now whenever

909
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,440
they're going into these buildings, now they're now they're throwing

910
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:35,320
on the respirators. And you know, because they learned the

911
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,920
hard way. They all got respiratory problems from going in

912
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:43,079
these damp buildings with whatever, dust and mold and asbestos

913
00:52:43,199 --> 00:52:47,639
and whenever they encounter they weren't protected before and now

914
00:52:47,679 --> 00:52:48,519
they're paying the price.

915
00:52:49,199 --> 00:52:51,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like Bruce said, you know, you have

916
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,360
no idea what you're walking around in. You have no

917
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,400
idea what was there. You have mold and you have lead,

918
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,559
and you have I mean, who knows what you're walking

919
00:53:00,599 --> 00:53:04,840
around And it's just amazing to me that people just

920
00:53:05,199 --> 00:53:08,159
you know, you see them walking around and I've seen

921
00:53:08,199 --> 00:53:14,320
it firsthand. Flip flops flip flops and shorts and a

922
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:17,760
T shirt. And okay, so it's hot outside, that doesn't

923
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,679
mean you shouldn't have one a good pair of boots

924
00:53:19,679 --> 00:53:22,760
and long pants, you know what I mean, and a respirator.

925
00:53:23,519 --> 00:53:28,519
But you know, people do what they do and I'll

926
00:53:28,599 --> 00:53:35,480
probably never ever understand it, but it's the way people

927
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:40,440
do things, and I just try to impart a lot that.

928
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,480
You know, safety is a big concern. I mean, it's

929
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,639
a lot of fun, you know, and it's a night out,

930
00:53:46,679 --> 00:53:48,880
and it depends on type of research you are. You're

931
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,559
either going out for fun and games or you're going

932
00:53:50,599 --> 00:53:52,960
out to really see if you can find something. But

933
00:53:53,039 --> 00:53:56,320
if you're not prepared for the worst, I mean, you

934
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,719
better not go. Just like walking through cemeteries at night

935
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:04,079
with no flashlight. Yeah yeah, I mean, and it's not

936
00:54:04,199 --> 00:54:06,719
very forgiving when you catch up, no grant, it doesn't

937
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:14,920
give exactly right, yeah, exactly. You know. There's one of

938
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,360
the there's an interesting point that you brought up early

939
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,480
in your discussion about your background that I think needs

940
00:54:20,519 --> 00:54:26,199
to be reiterated, and that is the the these cases

941
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,159
are not snap your fingers. And you know, most people

942
00:54:29,199 --> 00:54:31,840
think that this old house would rebuild the house in

943
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:36,280
twenty eight minutes, and that these cases all take place

944
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,960
or reviewed and done, you know, in twenty eight minutes

945
00:54:40,039 --> 00:54:44,119
or an hour, the length it takes of the length

946
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:49,239
of most of your cases from beginning to end. I

947
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,920
don't think that's a point that most people understand. This

948
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:53,960
is not a hit and run type of business by

949
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,559
any means. Now, could you talk about why it takes

950
00:54:57,599 --> 00:55:01,239
so long for the listeners that are familiar with the procedures. Sure,

951
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,719
I think that's an important aspect of it. Okay, Well,

952
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,920
well let's take a We'll start out with a paranormal case. Okay,

953
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:08,639
So you get somebody to calls you and they say

954
00:55:08,639 --> 00:55:11,400
they have something wrong with something's going on in the home.

955
00:55:13,079 --> 00:55:14,599
So now the first thing you want to do is

956
00:55:14,639 --> 00:55:16,239
get all the information with them, what they got, what

957
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:20,119
they're going. You need to visit them, showing empathy of

958
00:55:20,159 --> 00:55:21,800
what it is because you don't know what's going on.

959
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:24,880
And then when you get back and you start your

960
00:55:25,039 --> 00:55:27,199
you start to do the investigation. One of the things

961
00:55:27,199 --> 00:55:29,400
you want to do is research the house, when was

962
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,000
it built, how many people live there, was there anything

963
00:55:32,039 --> 00:55:35,039
strange that happened at the house, You know, like, uh,

964
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,280
was there a murder at the house? Was there? Well,

965
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,440
you know, anything, just anything, anything you can dig up

966
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:45,960
on the house, the property itself, that's number one. So

967
00:55:46,159 --> 00:55:48,920
you've got all that stuff now, and uh, maybe you

968
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,440
could track down a couple of the past owners to

969
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:56,239
see if they've had anything like that happening to them.

970
00:55:57,039 --> 00:56:00,440
And then when you do the investigation, you don't walk

971
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,800
around with the person that is reporting this. You know,

972
00:56:03,159 --> 00:56:05,639
show me what you're seeing and where you're seeing it.

973
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,159
And once you get that all down, then you can

974
00:56:08,199 --> 00:56:10,599
start with your equipment, setting up your equipment and your

975
00:56:10,639 --> 00:56:13,000
cameras and all that stuff and go around and check

976
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:15,400
to see if you've got hotspots or to see if

977
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:19,000
you've got any any readings, whether it be E M

978
00:56:19,119 --> 00:56:23,159
F or radiation or whatever. Questions you should be asking,

979
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,480
are you know, has anybody gotten sick in the house

980
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,000
or anybody continually getting sick in the house. I mean,

981
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:30,960
you can be talking about just a house right on gas.

982
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:33,880
Look at the position of the beds or the beds

983
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:38,320
close to electrical sockets. You know, EMF can do a

984
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:42,639
we can really wreck your head. So if the guy's bed,

985
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,320
the guy's complain he can't sleep, or he's getting nightmares,

986
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:47,280
or he's waking up screaming in the middle of night.

987
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,599
He's waking up seeing stuff. And you see that this

988
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:56,760
pillow is right up against a duplex plug. He needs

989
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,840
to move that bed because APA says that, you know,

990
00:57:00,119 --> 00:57:04,039
to be proper away from to get away from EMF

991
00:57:04,079 --> 00:57:08,719
from electrical outlets, you need to be between five and

992
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,719
six feet away. So his bed needs to be five

993
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,159
or six feet away. And we did do that with

994
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,920
one case, and the guy got back to us and

995
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:18,840
said that must have been in he said, because I

996
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:23,119
have no issues anymore. So there are a lot of

997
00:57:23,119 --> 00:57:28,880
things to look at. You know, Researching and investigating is

998
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,199
more than just taking a report and talking to somebody

999
00:57:31,239 --> 00:57:33,320
and hanging up the phone or going to the house

1000
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:34,920
and talking to him and gone home after he took

1001
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:36,440
a few pictures and this, that and the other thing.

1002
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:41,800
And it depends on the researcher. I mean, I've had

1003
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:45,760
people call me up and started complaining about somebody that

1004
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:47,679
was researching their case and they want us to take

1005
00:57:47,719 --> 00:57:49,360
it over, and we will not do that. If somebody

1006
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,960
else is investigating it, that's their baby. Where the guy

1007
00:57:53,559 --> 00:57:55,639
sat for two hours talking to people and then asked

1008
00:57:55,639 --> 00:57:57,039
them if they had a pensil and paper where he

1009
00:57:57,039 --> 00:58:01,719
could take notes. After two hours cheese. So you know,

1010
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,519
if you're going to do this, you need to do

1011
00:58:06,599 --> 00:58:09,559
it properly. If you don't know how to do it properly,

1012
00:58:09,679 --> 00:58:11,320
get a hold of somebody that's been doing it a

1013
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,679
long time. Ask if you can ride along with him.

1014
00:58:13,719 --> 00:58:15,719
Ask if you can just go along and watch that

1015
00:58:16,239 --> 00:58:18,880
be that observer. You know, that's the way you're going

1016
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:23,119
to learn. And there's people out there that have really

1017
00:58:23,159 --> 00:58:27,920
good backgrounds in investigations for insurance companies, police department. They

1018
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,880
couldn't investigate a siding if their life depended on it,

1019
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:35,519
because you take a UFO siding. I don't know how

1020
00:58:35,519 --> 00:58:38,880
many hundreds and hundreds of reports I've read where nobody

1021
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,199
checks the weather. No, no, and they don't even look

1022
00:58:42,199 --> 00:58:44,440
at the weather. They don't look at temperature change. And

1023
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,239
that should be the same thing in a paranormal investigation,

1024
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:50,880
temperature change room to room. But you know, I had

1025
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,480
a case one time where a guy said he sworn,

1026
00:58:53,519 --> 00:58:55,320
declare this is what he saw, and he went on

1027
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:58,440
and on and on his an elaborate story. And when

1028
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,239
I went back home and checked the way there. There's

1029
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:03,599
no way he could have seen anything. The ceiling was

1030
00:59:03,599 --> 00:59:07,159
only fifteen hundred feet, you know. And this guy's telling

1031
00:59:07,159 --> 00:59:08,840
me he's seeing this and this and this. I'm going

1032
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:13,920
like impossible. So you know, it helps you, and it

1033
00:59:14,079 --> 00:59:20,000
helps you know, get the you know, sort it out

1034
00:59:20,159 --> 00:59:27,280
really and if you have the you can't give up.

1035
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:29,719
I mean, you got to look at everything, every little thing,

1036
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:33,039
no matter how small it is. If you're looking for

1037
00:59:33,159 --> 00:59:37,519
debris or you're looking for evidence, you know, you have

1038
00:59:37,559 --> 00:59:40,079
to do that properly. There's rules of evidence to follow,

1039
00:59:40,159 --> 00:59:43,679
you know. But you don't take something off the ground.

1040
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:45,960
Let's just say it's a bigfoot when somebody thinks it's

1041
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,000
a piece of scat. So the guy gets his rubber

1042
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,400
gloves on, he gets his baggy out and he puts

1043
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:54,760
it in there and he seals it, and then he

1044
00:59:55,679 --> 00:59:57,559
writes on it the day and time and where it

1045
00:59:57,639 --> 00:59:58,800
was and all this that and the other, and then

1046
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:00,360
he hands it to his buddy, who's either the peanut

1047
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,400
butter and jelly sandwich, who reaches into the bag and says,

1048
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:06,800
what is that? Yeah, right, well that's done. And people

1049
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:13,039
don't realize that you can contaminate evidence. I mean, if

1050
01:00:13,039 --> 01:00:14,840
you're taking evidence, you should have a mask on. You

1051
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,840
should have rubber gloves on because your breath when people talk,

1052
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:20,960
they don't realize it, but if they look look at

1053
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,119
a slow motion camera, every time they open their mouths,

1054
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:29,119
there's spittle coming out. What's on your hands, So you

1055
01:00:29,159 --> 01:00:32,760
want to have gloves. So it encompasses a lot more

1056
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:37,440
than people think. And a case can take you know,

1057
01:00:37,679 --> 01:00:39,760
you can figure something out, like the guy with the

1058
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:43,960
ceiling fifteen hundred foot ceiling. Yeah, I mean that was

1059
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,000
a matter of a few minutes really, But we have

1060
01:00:47,119 --> 01:00:50,840
cases where in Carbondale that took us two and a

1061
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,639
half years, the Todd's East case. We're on our sixth

1062
01:00:53,679 --> 01:00:56,280
going into our sixth year with that, and we have

1063
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,239
other other cases that are taking a year or more.

1064
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,960
Only let me jump in here because speaking about time,

1065
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:03,599
I'm going to let Mark take us out to the break.

1066
01:01:03,599 --> 01:01:05,639
We're at the top of the hour. We'll pick up

1067
01:01:05,679 --> 01:01:10,239
again talking about some of some of the generalizations that

1068
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:12,000
don't hold water right after this break.

1069
01:01:12,079 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 5: Mark, Yes, we're going to be right back right after

1070
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,760
these messages with our guest, Butch Witkowski, So don't go away,

1071
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:18,679
We'll be right back.

1072
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 2: Can't wait for Halloween to be scared. Coming this jew

1073
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:31,320
to York, Pennsylvania. Phenomenology one o seven, the largest and

1074
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:35,400
most popular paranormal conference on the planet, returns for its

1075
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:39,119
seventh straight year. Come meet some of the top paranormal

1076
01:01:39,199 --> 01:01:43,360
researchers and experiencers in the field. Attend lectures by the

1077
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,880
real life survivors of some of the most notorious hauntings

1078
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:50,800
in American history that inspired blockbuster movies, such as The

1079
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:56,480
Conjuring Haunting in Kinectic and the Amityville hor Phenomenology one

1080
01:01:56,519 --> 01:02:00,280
oh seven is coming New York, Pennsylvania, June eighteen through

1081
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:03,599
the twenty first at the York Holiday Edited Conference Center.

1082
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:08,920
The tickets are now available at www. Dot pheno events

1083
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:14,599
dot com. That's phenom Events dot com. Happy Holidays.

1084
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,519
Speaker 3: Strange occurrences of phenomena can enter into any person's life,

1085
01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:34,239
leaving them feeling babilitated and alone, but help is available.

1086
01:02:35,639 --> 01:02:38,480
Spirit Rescue International is a nonprofit group that combines the

1087
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,239
resources of our affiliates worldwide in order to achieve a

1088
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:47,199
successful entity clearing. Our mission is to provide professional, confidential,

1089
01:02:47,239 --> 01:02:50,880
and ethical spiritual relief, including continued personal support and guidance

1090
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:55,159
at no cost to the client. If you have questions,

1091
01:02:55,159 --> 01:02:59,039
please visit our website at www dot Spirit Rescue International

1092
01:02:59,079 --> 01:03:03,360
dot com. Your inquiry can be forwarded to us by

1093
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:05,840
the contact forum on the website, or you can email

1094
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:12,920
us at mail at Spirit Rescue International dot com. Take

1095
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,400
the first step towards genuine peace of mind with Spirit

1096
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:16,559
Rescue International.

1097
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 6: Hi, This is Hilaris Blue Raven with Hyperspace on Dark

1098
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:41,119
batter Radio. Tune in on Tuesdays at seven pm Eastern

1099
01:03:41,159 --> 01:03:45,719
Standard Time for an intriguing show obtaining to cover technology, UFOs,

1100
01:03:46,239 --> 01:04:28,079
paranormal mysticism, and spirituality.

1101
01:04:35,719 --> 01:04:39,119
Speaker 5: And welcome back everyone to Unknown Origins Radio here on

1102
01:04:39,199 --> 01:04:42,480
the Dark Matter Radio Network. I'm your host, Mark Johnson

1103
01:04:42,599 --> 01:04:47,280
along with Bruce Pearson, and we're talking with our guest Witchkowski.

1104
01:04:48,119 --> 01:04:49,199
Speaker 4: Uh and Uh.

1105
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,000
Speaker 5: We've been having a wonderful conversation tonight. Butch, I mean,

1106
01:04:52,039 --> 01:04:54,320
there's so much that we've been covering and wanting to

1107
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:54,840
talk about.

1108
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:55,639
Speaker 4: Uh.

1109
01:04:56,079 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 5: But before I asked a question, Bruce, you were starting

1110
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:02,440
a lot kind of questioning before we were going off

1111
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:03,960
the air, and I think you wanted to continue that.

1112
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 1: Well, Yeah, I just like to make a couple of

1113
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:08,639
points for the listeners. I haven't really thought about it.

1114
01:05:09,559 --> 01:05:16,800
I think it's so disingenuous for any group or organization

1115
01:05:17,079 --> 01:05:23,159
to spend one night or two nights in a facility,

1116
01:05:23,159 --> 01:05:26,000
in a building, in a house, or at a location

1117
01:05:26,559 --> 01:05:30,199
and to pronounce there's no paranormal activity, there's nothing here

1118
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,239
that's you know, that's a kin to drop in your

1119
01:05:34,239 --> 01:05:37,280
fish hook in the water for thirty seconds and saying

1120
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,119
there's no fish in the river or the lake or

1121
01:05:40,119 --> 01:05:43,960
what you have you it's just and I think this

1122
01:05:44,039 --> 01:05:47,159
speaks to you know what Butch was saying in terms

1123
01:05:47,199 --> 01:05:49,159
of you know you're sharing with this is the amount

1124
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:52,760
in order to do a proper investigation, you know, just

1125
01:05:53,039 --> 01:05:55,840
drop in for three hours and drop out and make

1126
01:05:55,880 --> 01:06:01,360
a proclamation that you know, anything is. And this actually

1127
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,119
applies to some of the hotspots that I've worked with

1128
01:06:04,159 --> 01:06:07,719
over the years doing documentaries with pilots and stuff. You

1129
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,320
take a considerable amount of time. If there's more than

1130
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:12,519
one siting on a UFO siding, you can build a

1131
01:06:12,519 --> 01:06:17,679
pretty good body of evidence. It's hard to do. That's

1132
01:06:17,719 --> 01:06:20,559
probably a lot less practical to do in terms of

1133
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:23,880
UFO investigations than it is with paranormal But I think

1134
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:28,159
it's just absurd to think that, you know, taking one

1135
01:06:28,239 --> 01:06:30,079
night in a building and you'll be able to make

1136
01:06:30,199 --> 01:06:33,320
a pronouncement just because there was no activity involved there

1137
01:06:35,199 --> 01:06:40,400
to draw a grand conclusion. And I also wanted you

1138
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:43,480
to mention to feel free to disagree with me on that.

1139
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,440
But if you're really going to do a chain of evidence,

1140
01:06:47,199 --> 01:06:50,519
and this is one thing that Chase Klotsky worked on

1141
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:54,719
extensively in her book, and had a properly conducted an investigation,

1142
01:06:54,840 --> 01:07:00,400
to protect evidence, to acquire evidence, to not disturb any

1143
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:03,000
evidence that you find. And you know, if we're going

1144
01:07:03,039 --> 01:07:08,960
to have anyone in the skeptic or traditional forensic fields

1145
01:07:10,159 --> 01:07:14,159
take any of this, uh seriously, then I think the

1146
01:07:14,199 --> 01:07:16,519
bar has to be raised. And Mark and I've had

1147
01:07:16,519 --> 01:07:19,360
this discussion many times. You know, if you're if you're

1148
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:23,440
just doing this for entertainment value or or you need

1149
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:25,199
a night out, you know, I could think of a

1150
01:07:25,199 --> 01:07:28,679
lot better ways than sitting in a in a stinky, old,

1151
01:07:28,719 --> 01:07:31,039
moldy building all night long in the summer when it's

1152
01:07:31,079 --> 01:07:32,880
one hundred degrees or in the winter when it's like

1153
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:34,800
this and it's three degrees. And I've done both, so

1154
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:38,199
neither one of them is terribly pleasant. But if that's

1155
01:07:38,239 --> 01:07:40,559
what you're in it for, that's fine. That's you know,

1156
01:07:40,599 --> 01:07:43,079
that's not for me to judge. If you are trying

1157
01:07:43,079 --> 01:07:47,239
to do a serious investigation, and we've discussed this on

1158
01:07:47,519 --> 01:07:49,960
a number of shows, first of all, try to have

1159
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,800
some understanding of the theories then that's what they are

1160
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:57,000
of why we carry these instruments, and why the way

1161
01:07:57,039 --> 01:08:01,719
they function might indicate something into terms of paranormal evidence.

1162
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:05,280
That's the first thing I would recommend. I mean, if

1163
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:10,400
all you know about your meter is it's a plastic gadget,

1164
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:12,800
the lights light up on it, and when the lights

1165
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:17,399
light up on it, then there must be a ghost around.

1166
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:21,159
It's hard to say to extrapolate that you're an investigator

1167
01:08:21,159 --> 01:08:24,880
at that point. Basically, you know you're just looking at

1168
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,560
lights on a piece of plastic. Try to understand some

1169
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:30,319
of the background and you have a better picture of

1170
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:33,319
how all these pieces go together to form a puzzle.

1171
01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:36,000
That would be my first suggestion to anyone who's serious

1172
01:08:36,039 --> 01:08:39,560
about it. If you want to have credibility, do your research.

1173
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:41,840
Try to the extent that we can in a non

1174
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:47,359
scientific area to learn about the theories behind why a

1175
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,800
K two meter works or why how EVPs may or

1176
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:53,840
may not happen, and what the mechanism is. You're not

1177
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:55,800
going to come up with the answers. If there were answers,

1178
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:58,720
I guess we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's kind

1179
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:00,439
of my pet peeve about it. If you're going to

1180
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:04,119
try to be professional, they try to be professional, don't

1181
01:09:04,119 --> 01:09:05,520
you go out and buy a bunch of equipment and

1182
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,520
run around with you know, well you know, and a

1183
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:11,279
lot of the equipment sold that's out there sold now

1184
01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:15,920
for the paranormal hunters. A lot of that stuff is

1185
01:09:16,239 --> 01:09:18,039
like you say, the light slight up, Well it could

1186
01:09:18,039 --> 01:09:20,239
have been your buddies buckle that lit it up, who knows.

1187
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:23,720
But you know, if you buy a good EMF meter

1188
01:09:24,279 --> 01:09:27,319
and a good radiation detector, I mean, those are things

1189
01:09:27,319 --> 01:09:29,800
that are not going to fail you. And another thing

1190
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:31,520
I wanted to bring up and I wanted to say,

1191
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:36,279
and I forgot. When you are doing research on a home,

1192
01:09:37,079 --> 01:09:39,560
one of the things you absolutely want to do is

1193
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,359
get to your historical society there's one available in the area,

1194
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:48,520
or a library, go through old papers, old newspaper articles,

1195
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:53,880
whatever you can find on that particular house or that

1196
01:09:53,920 --> 01:10:02,640
particular area or the dates. Now that information in your

1197
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:05,479
pocket when you get into the investigation where you're actually

1198
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:07,439
on the scene and you're going to start setting up

1199
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:10,159
your equipment doing this any other thing, you know. Okay,

1200
01:10:10,199 --> 01:10:13,079
So the Historical Society said that, you know, there was

1201
01:10:13,119 --> 01:10:16,439
a fire here in eighteen ninety five, and the home

1202
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:19,439
was rebuilt three times, but in that eighteen ninety five fire,

1203
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:22,680
the whole family perished. So now you've got a little

1204
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:26,000
something that you can put on your tag on your

1205
01:10:26,079 --> 01:10:32,439
investigative report. Or there was a murder committed in the forties,

1206
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:36,680
or something next door or down the street or out front,

1207
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:39,680
or there was a terrible crash and a bunch of people.

1208
01:10:40,039 --> 01:10:44,319
You know, the most paranormal activity, from what I understand

1209
01:10:44,359 --> 01:10:49,079
and what I've seen, take place in areas where there

1210
01:10:49,119 --> 01:10:54,640
has been a death, of violent death. I spoke at

1211
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:57,520
a meeting up in Johnstown and the guy said to me,

1212
01:10:57,560 --> 01:10:59,159
he says, you know when we had the flood here,

1213
01:11:00,039 --> 01:11:01,680
He said, you know that little bridge you crossed over.

1214
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:04,000
I said, oh yeah, coming into town. He said, okay,

1215
01:11:04,239 --> 01:11:09,560
he said when the flood happened, he said, homes from

1216
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:13,960
up upstream got washed down and they all jammed up

1217
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:17,520
in these rivers at the bridge. You know, they just

1218
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:19,479
started hitting each other and before you know it, there

1219
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:22,600
was just this whole conglomeration of houses stacked on top

1220
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,359
of each other, and they caught fire. You know, they

1221
01:11:25,399 --> 01:11:29,039
were because cooking back then was fire. And he said

1222
01:11:29,079 --> 01:11:31,079
people were screaming. They couldn't get to them, they couldn't

1223
01:11:31,079 --> 01:11:32,640
get them out. There's no way they could even get

1224
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:35,880
near them. And he said, you know, many people have

1225
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:39,199
reported to his group up there that you know, on

1226
01:11:39,279 --> 01:11:41,840
certain nights that are close to the dates of the

1227
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:46,199
first flood, they hear people screaming, asking for help and this,

1228
01:11:46,359 --> 01:11:48,720
that and othering. He said, we have not had one

1229
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:51,880
paranormal group come up to investigate that. And he said,

1230
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:56,079
we've asked many. Well, there you go, miss l You

1231
01:11:56,159 --> 01:11:58,800
can't paint everybody with the same brush. But I think

1232
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:02,520
it's important from my money to by way of example,

1233
01:12:03,239 --> 01:12:06,119
I have to give kudos to dead files. I mean,

1234
01:12:06,159 --> 01:12:10,239
I think that that is a clear indication of if

1235
01:12:10,279 --> 01:12:14,920
you're really going to do an independent documented historical record

1236
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,359
background check, and that's the way you do it. And

1237
01:12:18,399 --> 01:12:23,119
I think that to me, that's one of the most

1238
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:29,520
well represented shows on television of how paranormal research can

1239
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:31,279
be done. It's not the only way by any means.

1240
01:12:32,119 --> 01:12:34,600
Back in nineteen seventy four, they had an incident here

1241
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:38,119
in Pennsylvania called the Carbondale Sighting Incident or lantern incident,

1242
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:41,640
where a group of kids saw something fall into a

1243
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:48,640
mine area where there was a silk pond. Okay, and

1244
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:50,399
it was sizzling, and it was bright, and it's any

1245
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:51,920
other thing. And it goes on and on and on

1246
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,760
with the police showing up and shooting at it. But

1247
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:58,760
the researcher that took it on was out of Philadelphia,

1248
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:05,800
and he for years years just said that this was

1249
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,840
a joke. It was a hoax. The kids threw a

1250
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:12,239
lantern in there, and this lantern was being moved around

1251
01:13:12,399 --> 01:13:18,920
in the soap pond by the underwater movements and the currents.

1252
01:13:20,279 --> 01:13:22,640
Read the report and that was what hit me in

1253
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:27,119
the face. Currents in a soap pond. It's a static pod.

1254
01:13:27,199 --> 01:13:31,079
It's not like a flowing river. So it took me

1255
01:13:31,119 --> 01:13:34,119
almost two years to get his report because he goes

1256
01:13:34,159 --> 01:13:38,600
into great depth on the internet about what took place.

1257
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:40,560
He was there for almost two and a half days.

1258
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:42,720
He was called in by the police and had all

1259
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:46,039
this stuff. And it took me almost two years to

1260
01:13:46,039 --> 01:13:48,319
find a report, and I found it. I found it.

1261
01:13:48,399 --> 01:13:51,319
Kufos had a file with the report, the actual report,

1262
01:13:52,079 --> 01:13:54,640
and so I called Kufos. I talked to doctor Rodinger

1263
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:55,840
and I asked him if I could have a copy

1264
01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:57,319
of it, and he said, sure, send me the postage.

1265
01:13:57,319 --> 01:13:59,279
So I sent him three bucks. He sent me this

1266
01:13:59,279 --> 01:14:04,640
thing and I read it. This investigator, for whatever reason,

1267
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:08,520
instead of being there for two and a half days,

1268
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:10,680
what it blolled down to there he was more like

1269
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:16,119
two hours and twenty minutes, two hours and twenty minutes.

1270
01:14:16,119 --> 01:14:19,880
But anybody that questioned the Carbondale incident was made out

1271
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:22,079
to be a fool, an idiot, you know. Whatever. He

1272
01:14:22,119 --> 01:14:23,880
wanted to call him at that particular day, it was

1273
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:27,159
always something different. And when he found out we were

1274
01:14:27,199 --> 01:14:30,399
investigating it, he said, he called me and he said,

1275
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:33,119
I didn't know anybody was really interested in this, and

1276
01:14:33,199 --> 01:14:36,239
I told him, and you know, I'm not interested in

1277
01:14:36,279 --> 01:14:39,119
forty five fifty year old memories, I said, but I'm

1278
01:14:39,119 --> 01:14:40,720
going to look at it forensically and see what I

1279
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:47,640
can come up with. So besides the lantern moving around

1280
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:52,399
the water, which was nonsense. I bought six lanterns, the

1281
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:54,880
exact lantern. I got a hold of the manufacturer of

1282
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:56,640
the lantern. I got a hold of the manufacturer of

1283
01:14:56,680 --> 01:15:00,279
the battery. I asked him because in his report says

1284
01:15:00,279 --> 01:15:02,079
that when they pulled the lantern out of the water,

1285
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:07,319
it was all corroded. It was seeping its electrolyte. So,

1286
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:09,159
you know, when I talked to the battery people, I said,

1287
01:15:09,159 --> 01:15:11,079
how long would this thing be lit? Because it was

1288
01:15:11,079 --> 01:15:13,279
supposed to be lit many hours? I said, how long

1289
01:15:13,319 --> 01:15:15,039
would this thing be lit in that with the battery

1290
01:15:15,079 --> 01:15:17,039
that condition? The guy said, never would have been lit.

1291
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:21,319
He said, the continuity was gone. He said, that's it. Well,

1292
01:15:21,359 --> 01:15:24,680
he said, he submerged both terminals. Yeah, he said, and

1293
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:26,800
he said this thing, he said, never would have been lit.

1294
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:30,600
So we tried to find the original lantern, and the

1295
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:32,760
chief police had that and he sold it at the

1296
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:36,359
yard sale for five bucks. You know, well, okay, we

1297
01:15:36,399 --> 01:15:39,600
found some pictures of the lantern of the light in

1298
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:41,319
the pond, and it's a lot bigger than lantern. And

1299
01:15:41,359 --> 01:15:44,119
when you look at the lantern, we took it apart.

1300
01:15:44,359 --> 01:15:49,319
The handle it's aluminum, but the handle weighs like four ounces.

1301
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:53,399
Right with the battery in the bottom part, it weighs

1302
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:56,760
a couple pounds, a couple three pounds. So this thing

1303
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:58,880
was supposed to be thrown by these kids into the

1304
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:05,039
pond and handle down. Hardly tell you how many times

1305
01:16:05,039 --> 01:16:07,760
I threw it in that pond and it never landed

1306
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:14,960
handled down. It's impossible. And so we made the report up.

1307
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:18,279
We published the report and basically said that you know

1308
01:16:19,319 --> 01:16:27,800
you lied, But they now have a Carbondale how should

1309
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:31,039
I call it? It's not a conference, it's like carbondale, Carbondale,

1310
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:35,239
UFO days or something. They call it twice now they've

1311
01:16:35,239 --> 01:16:38,199
had it two years in a row. Twice I've contacted

1312
01:16:38,239 --> 01:16:40,319
them and asked them if I could come and speak

1313
01:16:40,359 --> 01:16:43,600
at it my own expense and bring along the report,

1314
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:51,119
and twice they said no, thank you. Really did they

1315
01:16:51,159 --> 01:16:53,600
tell you why they declined a free offer or someone

1316
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:56,880
who's no, sir. I have the report made by the

1317
01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:01,520
supposedly initial investigator with all the name states who all

1318
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:05,279
contacted who, I mean, the government was involved, NASA was involved.

1319
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:07,680
I mean, they have all these phone calls listed from

1320
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:09,479
who they talked to at NASA who they talked to

1321
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:13,680
with the Air Force and all this stuff. And one

1322
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:15,439
of the things he said when he was saying it

1323
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:17,439
was a hoax, well, there's no way you can get

1324
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:19,439
out of this place. But we've been there a number

1325
01:17:19,439 --> 01:17:22,079
of times, and of course, you know walking around. I

1326
01:17:22,199 --> 01:17:25,079
just walked around this big clump old coal dirt and

1327
01:17:25,119 --> 01:17:27,079
stuff like that. And there's a road that's wide enough

1328
01:17:27,119 --> 01:17:30,439
to take two tractor trailers side by side through. Now,

1329
01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:33,439
the inroad, my truck barely made it through the inroad,

1330
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:38,319
but the out road. So that was his thing. You

1331
01:17:38,319 --> 01:17:40,800
couldn't get a truck that size down that road. No,

1332
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:42,439
not down that road you couldn't, but the other road

1333
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:47,600
you could. And so here we sit with the evidence.

1334
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:50,760
I mean, I have that man's report, signed, sealed, delivered,

1335
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:54,520
numbered the whole nine yards, and they don't want to

1336
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:57,439
see it. Who was this man affiliated with? You know,

1337
01:17:58,680 --> 01:18:05,880
his group was called the Philadelphia Philadelphia UFO Research Center

1338
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:10,720
or something like that. I'm trying to think of what

1339
01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:12,960
it was called. But anyway, I mean, there were a

1340
01:18:13,039 --> 01:18:16,039
lot of witnesses. I mean, there were there were five kids,

1341
01:18:16,119 --> 01:18:21,439
there were six police officers involved. You had this, you

1342
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:24,560
had this two scuba divers. You had a photographer there,

1343
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:31,199
Moufon was involved, Apro was involved. His outfit was called

1344
01:18:31,199 --> 01:18:36,479
the twentieth Century UFO Bureau. That sounds a big commercial life.

1345
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:39,479
But beyond that, though, you would think that if they

1346
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:43,399
were now it's just a private or nonprofit or volunteer

1347
01:18:43,439 --> 01:18:45,920
group that's promoting this event. Now, well, the guys have

1348
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:47,560
a radio state. The two guys that put it on

1349
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:50,640
evidently have a radio station, and they put it on.

1350
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:53,439
And I missed it the first year, and then somebody

1351
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:55,279
brought to my attention, but it was like two month late.

1352
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:57,479
So I sent him an email and said, look, you know,

1353
01:18:57,520 --> 01:18:59,520
I had this original report and I said, I'll be

1354
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:01,039
more than what come to come up, and you know,

1355
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:03,520
and well I never heard back, so I thought, well

1356
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:06,720
it was too late anyway, So finding out about the

1357
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:08,920
other one at the time, I sent him another email said, look,

1358
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:11,560
you know I have the full report. I mean, I mean,

1359
01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:15,359
you get in a report where you have NORAD, you

1360
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:20,000
have the Air Force, you have NASA, and the NASA

1361
01:19:20,079 --> 01:19:23,079
call to the police department is documented it being lasting

1362
01:19:23,119 --> 01:19:26,239
from one to one and a half hours for a lantern.

1363
01:19:27,199 --> 01:19:29,960
I don't think so and I feel like that they

1364
01:19:29,960 --> 01:19:33,479
would want to it as being more legitimate than a

1365
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:36,239
lantern thrown in the pond. And you know, there are

1366
01:19:36,279 --> 01:19:43,520
little things that they're like the police officer the lantern moving,

1367
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:49,319
the police officer in the boat was trying to hook it. Okay,

1368
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:52,239
now it's sitting in like twelve foot of water and

1369
01:19:52,279 --> 01:19:54,760
he's using a four foot stick to hook it. There

1370
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:57,520
you go, that don't work. Yeah, So there were so

1371
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:00,279
many things that stood out that just jumped on that

1372
01:20:00,319 --> 01:20:04,479
report that you know, I sat here and basically left

1373
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:06,840
for about an hour thinking like, oh, this is going

1374
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:09,800
to be a fun report, and just taking the report apart,

1375
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:15,880
just using his report nothing else, and it just it

1376
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:19,960
was crazy. And after we published it on the website,

1377
01:20:22,079 --> 01:20:26,199
he called me again to wish me a merry Christmas.

1378
01:20:28,079 --> 01:20:31,199
That was it. Well, there are many layers to this

1379
01:20:31,319 --> 01:20:36,119
onion of why legitimate researcher, as much as we can,

1380
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:40,560
as volunteers and people not for a living, try to

1381
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:44,000
push the ball up the hill, why little progress has

1382
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:47,199
made And this is, you know, along with the professional

1383
01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:53,000
skeptics who are never held to the same standard anyone

1384
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:56,479
else would be, you've got people in it for their

1385
01:20:56,520 --> 01:21:00,479
own agendas, their own reasons, you know. It just every

1386
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:06,199
one of these situations or incidents is just an impediment

1387
01:21:06,319 --> 01:21:10,000
for the research to go on legitimately. So I think

1388
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:12,119
you just have to try to keep raising the bar,

1389
01:21:12,199 --> 01:21:14,680
do the best you can. And I don't think there's

1390
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:18,920
anything wrong in calling out people that just you know,

1391
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:23,800
are clearly knuckleheads or have their own agendas that are counterproductive.

1392
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:27,880
Did you ever notice this that groups that are out there,

1393
01:21:30,199 --> 01:21:32,920
when they take on new members, and I don't care

1394
01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:34,920
what size group it is, when they take on new members,

1395
01:21:35,279 --> 01:21:41,159
they get no training, none, noation, no background. And and

1396
01:21:41,399 --> 01:21:43,600
I've I went had a number of groups on the

1397
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:46,479
paranormal side come through, and I would ask them just

1398
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:50,479
discreetly as a pull. You know, they twenty groups lined

1399
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:52,800
up to go through the Red Mill down there at

1400
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,720
any given time, and there wasn't there weren't enough weekends

1401
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:58,800
to do it. And I'd say, well, tell me about

1402
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:01,279
your you know, ask them when they call and try

1403
01:22:01,279 --> 01:22:03,560
to get some idea whether you know, it's just a

1404
01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:06,239
name with somebody calling off a phone that wanted to

1405
01:22:06,279 --> 01:22:08,640
have a you know, the frat house out for a

1406
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:10,399
fun time. And I never ran into that, But I

1407
01:22:10,399 --> 01:22:12,520
always ask the question, and really, what kind of training

1408
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:15,039
to get these people? Well, you know we have these

1409
01:22:15,199 --> 01:22:18,600
this equipment and that, Okay, we need my question. So yeah,

1410
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:21,279
you're a great point. I mean, they don't know, nobody

1411
01:22:21,279 --> 01:22:24,359
gets an orientation or training or and and you know

1412
01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:28,359
there are enough good researchers out there exactly. I don't

1413
01:22:28,359 --> 01:22:30,640
mean if that could, I could put a could put

1414
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:33,239
a training together, a training session together at a local

1415
01:22:33,279 --> 01:22:37,640
fire company or or or the local library for a

1416
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:42,000
few hours on a once a month for free, no charge,

1417
01:22:42,399 --> 01:22:46,159
and actually you know, show people at least the right

1418
01:22:46,199 --> 01:22:49,720
direction to start in. But you know, when you got

1419
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:54,720
three girls and I warned them, I basically talked them

1420
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:56,439
out of it. There were three girls that were going

1421
01:22:56,479 --> 01:23:02,000
to go to a cemetery that has not been utilized

1422
01:23:02,319 --> 01:23:06,960
for forty or fifty years here in the county, and

1423
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:09,039
they were going to spend the night in the cemetery

1424
01:23:09,119 --> 01:23:13,800
looking for ghosts. And I said, this is not a

1425
01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:18,000
good idea for a number of reasons. First of all,

1426
01:23:18,039 --> 01:23:20,000
you don't know who's lurking in that cemetery, you don't

1427
01:23:20,039 --> 01:23:21,560
know what's going on, you don't know your way around,

1428
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:23,359
you've never been there before. You haven't even been there

1429
01:23:23,359 --> 01:23:27,079
in a daylight. So just packing up a lunch and

1430
01:23:27,119 --> 01:23:31,119
grabbing a flashlight and running around in the cemetery that's

1431
01:23:31,159 --> 01:23:33,680
been shut down for forty or fifty years is not

1432
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:38,119
really a good move. I said, not that anybody could

1433
01:23:38,159 --> 01:23:39,800
grab you or anything like that, but I said, you

1434
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:43,399
know what if you walked across a grave that was

1435
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:48,319
sinking and yeah, or a tombstone fell on you, I

1436
01:23:48,359 --> 01:23:52,399
said heavy, or a monument that'll kill you. I said,

1437
01:23:52,479 --> 01:23:56,359
and there's nobody. It's three girls. They're all in their twenties,

1438
01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:58,640
and they're going to go stomping around in the cemetery.

1439
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:01,399
I said, bad idea. Don't do it, and they didn't.

1440
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:04,199
Eventually they didn't do it, but they were going to.

1441
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:07,159
They actually called to find out if they could borrow

1442
01:24:07,159 --> 01:24:10,319
some equipment and I said, sure, where are you going?

1443
01:24:10,359 --> 01:24:12,760
And they started telling me that and I was like, oh, crap, man,

1444
01:24:12,800 --> 01:24:18,600
I panic. I said, this is not going to turn out. Well, well, yeah,

1445
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:20,760
we do live in the real world and people get

1446
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:23,479
hurt and you know, but it's the same thing with

1447
01:24:24,359 --> 01:24:27,079
you know, in bigfoot research, you're out in the woods.

1448
01:24:27,279 --> 01:24:32,720
Mostly it's done at night. I mean, it can be dangerous.

1449
01:24:33,319 --> 01:24:35,119
I mean, there's a lot of stuff in the woods

1450
01:24:35,119 --> 01:24:37,520
that will hurt you. I mean, and it doesn't necessarily

1451
01:24:37,560 --> 01:24:40,039
have to be stationary. It could be on four legs. Well.

1452
01:24:40,159 --> 01:24:40,399
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1453
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:44,920
Speaker 5: I have a friend who runs the Ohio Bigfoot Hunters,

1454
01:24:45,119 --> 01:24:49,520
Tim Stover, and he'd recently had posted when he was

1455
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:52,199
out in the woods and because he's out almost every

1456
01:24:52,279 --> 01:24:55,239
day bigfoot researching, and he was out in the woods

1457
01:24:55,239 --> 01:24:57,119
one day and as he was walking out, he heard

1458
01:24:57,159 --> 01:24:58,359
something behind him and turned around.

1459
01:24:58,399 --> 01:25:01,439
Speaker 4: There's a coyote right behind him, and that code.

1460
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:04,840
Speaker 5: He paste him and followed him out and scared the

1461
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:06,960
crap out of him, because you know, where there's one,

1462
01:25:07,039 --> 01:25:07,960
there's usually more.

1463
01:25:09,039 --> 01:25:11,880
Speaker 1: And now coyote alone, you need to probably back it off.

1464
01:25:12,359 --> 01:25:15,479
A coyote with a group, you ain't backing off. No, No,

1465
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:17,319
If they're in a pack, you're not going to stop them.

1466
01:25:18,199 --> 01:25:19,760
When I lived out in Arizona, I used to have

1467
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:23,880
one that used a sunbathe out in my backyard and

1468
01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:26,800
very docile and they've never bothered anything. Of My dogs

1469
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:28,439
would come out and bark at him and they'd go back in.

1470
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:31,119
He just lay there nothing. When two or three of

1471
01:25:31,159 --> 01:25:33,319
them were out there and my dogs came out. Man,

1472
01:25:33,319 --> 01:25:36,760
they started showing teeth and getting really defensive, to the

1473
01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:43,800
point where I was holding a handgun. So snakes, I mean,

1474
01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:49,520
come on, there's just so many things. But it's all

1475
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:52,319
in the researcher's mind. What do they want to do.

1476
01:25:52,560 --> 01:25:54,680
If they want to have fun and games, they should

1477
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:57,600
go to a haunted house. Yeah, pay the ten bucks

1478
01:25:57,680 --> 01:25:59,439
and go through the thing and let them scary and

1479
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:01,880
go home happy. But if you want to go out

1480
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:04,399
and you want to do it legitimately and the right way,

1481
01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:08,079
there are precautions, there are steps to be taken there.

1482
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:12,359
There's an investigative protocol you need to follow. You need

1483
01:26:12,399 --> 01:26:14,880
to do your research. And when you tell people they

1484
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:16,880
got to read a book or they got to go

1485
01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:19,520
to the historical side, they go, oh my, well, why

1486
01:26:19,520 --> 01:26:23,119
do I got to do that? Well, there's a reason

1487
01:26:23,159 --> 01:26:24,920
for it. I mean, you're not going to go in

1488
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:29,319
there looking like a dummy. One case that I went

1489
01:26:29,359 --> 01:26:33,920
on with another group, which really impressed me because a

1490
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:35,640
couple of times I went with other groups and they

1491
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:38,039
never did it. This guy pulled out a file and

1492
01:26:38,079 --> 01:26:42,319
he had the complete history of that home, who lived there.

1493
01:26:42,439 --> 01:26:45,760
He had every owner. Now, a bunch of them were

1494
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:48,399
passed away, but he did find the previous owner who

1495
01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:50,640
he checked with, who said, well, yeah, he did have

1496
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:52,399
some strange things happened in the house, but he said,

1497
01:26:52,399 --> 01:26:54,119
I paid no attention to him because I wasn't there

1498
01:26:54,159 --> 01:26:55,520
all the time. I was on the road. I was

1499
01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:58,479
a salesman. And now these people are having the same

1500
01:26:58,680 --> 01:27:01,640
thing he had, and he hasn't lived in the house

1501
01:27:01,680 --> 01:27:05,760
for years. So I mean that's a start, right, And uh,

1502
01:27:06,159 --> 01:27:08,720
but yeah, I guess it's more exciting too.

1503
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:11,800
Speaker 5: Well.

1504
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:13,560
Speaker 1: I think the other side of that coin is though,

1505
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:16,399
you know, you go sit in an eight degree weather

1506
01:27:17,279 --> 01:27:20,119
all night long. Yeah, if you're not serious about it,

1507
01:27:20,159 --> 01:27:23,720
that that'll flush out the heat part pretty quickly, Yeah,

1508
01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:29,520
real quick. Uh. And and uh, you know with our van,

1509
01:27:30,039 --> 01:27:32,199
you know, we have a canopy to set up, we

1510
01:27:32,239 --> 01:27:35,000
have computers to set up, we have a heater, uh

1511
01:27:35,159 --> 01:27:38,760
nine thousand BTU heater, we have you know, there's food,

1512
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:42,560
there's there's stuff to drink. I mean, there's nobody says

1513
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:46,960
it has to be uncomfortable, you know. And I mean

1514
01:27:47,119 --> 01:27:50,680
and you you're sharper, you're you know, you're not drowsing

1515
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:52,239
off if you have a hot cup of coffee in

1516
01:27:52,279 --> 01:27:55,239
your hand that was just made, or or you know

1517
01:27:55,279 --> 01:27:58,560
you got warmth. Uh and and uh. You know you

1518
01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:00,920
can actually work at your canter and do what you

1519
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:06,960
want without freezing fast to the keyboard. And it comes

1520
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:10,399
down to you're either going to do it for real

1521
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:15,079
or you're going to do it for fun. So right, but.

1522
01:28:15,239 --> 01:28:17,399
Speaker 5: Let me ask you a question, not trying to change

1523
01:28:17,439 --> 01:28:21,399
the subject. I wanted to get your thoughts on because

1524
01:28:21,439 --> 01:28:23,520
one of our listeners in the chat room also brought

1525
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:25,840
it up. One note, what are your thoughts on this

1526
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:30,079
new report that's coming out of Manitoba about this crash UFO.

1527
01:28:30,159 --> 01:28:32,680
Speaker 4: Have you heard anything on that or what are your

1528
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:33,239
thoughts on it?

1529
01:28:34,399 --> 01:28:36,680
Speaker 1: I got a hold of a friend of mine up

1530
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:40,239
in Canada who sent me newspaper clipping that this thing

1531
01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:44,359
was this military exercise. It's a winter exercise. It's held

1532
01:28:44,359 --> 01:28:46,920
every year. It's just held in different parts of Canada,

1533
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:54,520
and this year was held in Manitoba there and it's

1534
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:59,960
basically a winner exercise for the troops. There was nothing seen.

1535
01:29:01,119 --> 01:29:03,840
There were reporters, local reporters were on the site and

1536
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:06,159
they didn't see anything other than the military guys. You know,

1537
01:29:06,199 --> 01:29:09,600
setting up the kitchen and pitching tents and parking trucks.

1538
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:14,840
The first reports were that it was a pyramid shape

1539
01:29:16,039 --> 01:29:18,199
that was sticking out, well, there was a pyramid shape

1540
01:29:18,199 --> 01:29:21,039
sticking out it was a piece of ice. And then

1541
01:29:21,159 --> 01:29:22,560
when they said it was a piece of ice, then

1542
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:26,239
it graduated to a saucer. And then when they said, no,

1543
01:29:26,319 --> 01:29:28,319
you're just looking at the ice from a different angle,

1544
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:33,760
and then it turned into a tube. So I think

1545
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:35,800
it probably was just a military exercise.

1546
01:29:36,119 --> 01:29:38,760
Speaker 4: Okay, you know, it's always good to get the professionals.

1547
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:43,720
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I mean when I first saw it, went like, wow, roswell.

1548
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:48,399
But you know, I've had so many roswells, or I

1549
01:29:48,439 --> 01:29:51,079
read so many roswells. Are right, I'm getting crazy.

1550
01:29:51,439 --> 01:29:53,960
Speaker 4: What disinformation on the internet say it isn't so.

1551
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:58,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that can't be. That can't be a lie.

1552
01:29:58,840 --> 01:29:59,039
Speaker 4: You know.

1553
01:29:59,079 --> 01:30:00,600
Speaker 5: The other thing I wanted to ask, as you know,

1554
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:03,720
we're talking about you know, people tramping around the woods

1555
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:07,640
and uh, you know, doing things that maybe that that

1556
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:10,119
are not quite so safe, and that kind of leads

1557
01:30:10,199 --> 01:30:13,399
me to segue into you know, one of the cases

1558
01:30:13,399 --> 01:30:15,600
that you've worked on and we've discussed with you before,

1559
01:30:15,720 --> 01:30:18,840
is the Todd Ceas case, and you know you've done

1560
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:21,439
a lot of research on that case, and yet there

1561
01:30:21,439 --> 01:30:24,119
are similar cases out there. And I know, you know

1562
01:30:24,159 --> 01:30:26,760
there's David Plaids who has his book on missing for

1563
01:30:26,960 --> 01:30:30,359
one one And if you if you look at the

1564
01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:34,199
number of people who disappear in this country every year,

1565
01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:37,319
and while there are a lot of them who disappear

1566
01:30:37,319 --> 01:30:39,800
of their own free will, you know, people trying to

1567
01:30:39,920 --> 01:30:43,560
fly under the radar, start a new life, whatnot. What's

1568
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:47,319
going on, especially in our national parks is almost frightening.

1569
01:30:48,159 --> 01:30:50,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know there are cases where you know,

1570
01:30:52,039 --> 01:30:54,680
people are walking with a group and they just walk

1571
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:57,880
out of the way to like relieve themselves or just

1572
01:30:58,039 --> 01:31:00,880
take a look over a little look or a little

1573
01:31:01,359 --> 01:31:07,199
hill and they're gone. There's cases where guys have guy

1574
01:31:07,239 --> 01:31:10,239
walked out of a bar on a Saturday night where

1575
01:31:10,239 --> 01:31:12,159
he was with his friends and there was quite a group.

1576
01:31:12,199 --> 01:31:14,560
It's like eight or ten people said hey, look I'll

1577
01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:16,439
go get the car and walked in and they watched

1578
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:19,119
him walk into the parking lot and after about fifteen

1579
01:31:19,159 --> 01:31:22,560
minutes he wasn't there, didn't come back, car didn't come back.

1580
01:31:22,600 --> 01:31:24,600
So they went in. There was the car and he

1581
01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:27,399
was gone, he's never been seen since. Where do you go?

1582
01:31:29,800 --> 01:31:32,479
And you know, go ahead, Mark, I.

1583
01:31:32,399 --> 01:31:33,920
Speaker 4: Mean one of the things.

1584
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:37,520
Speaker 5: And again something that we're starting to look into. And

1585
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:43,239
there's a big schism between, you know, the the nuts

1586
01:31:43,279 --> 01:31:46,960
and bolts types of investigators, whether or not your paranormal

1587
01:31:47,039 --> 01:31:51,520
Bigfoot UFO. There are the people who leaned towards the

1588
01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:55,520
tried and true explanations, the nuts and bolt Satan explanations,

1589
01:31:55,600 --> 01:32:00,199
or even like the undiscovered animal. And yet I know

1590
01:32:00,279 --> 01:32:04,640
I've personally have been leaning the opposite way of all

1591
01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:09,640
these different possibilities that almost defy our comprehension, that could

1592
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:15,520
lean towards the possible multi dimensional aspect, parallel world aspects.

1593
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:18,039
Speaker 1: And a good researcher should keep his mind open to that.

1594
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:23,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's it seems like that adds an explanation

1595
01:32:24,079 --> 01:32:26,680
to a lot of these things that we see that

1596
01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:29,880
seem to vanish. They're there and then they vanish right

1597
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:32,600
in front of us. Some of the paranormal aspects that

1598
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:36,560
creatures like Bigfoot or sasquatch seems to have in some

1599
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:40,159
cases that people have reported. And even these cases, let's

1600
01:32:40,199 --> 01:32:42,640
say somebody turns around, walks around a corner and has

1601
01:32:42,640 --> 01:32:45,359
gone and never be seen again. Where did they go?

1602
01:32:46,399 --> 01:32:48,199
You know, on the paranormal side of it. And this

1603
01:32:48,239 --> 01:32:50,399
is a story I've related here on the show.

1604
01:32:50,439 --> 01:32:52,199
Speaker 4: Often is when you know.

1605
01:32:52,760 --> 01:32:55,720
Speaker 5: People talk about a residual hauntings and being able to

1606
01:32:55,760 --> 01:32:58,520
seeing like, you know, a woman in a victorian dress

1607
01:32:58,560 --> 01:33:01,680
walking down the stairs, and you know, people say, well,

1608
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:03,800
that's you know, they try to explain it by saying, well,

1609
01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:06,920
the you know, the granite in the ground or not

1610
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:10,920
flowing water and something imprinted, and it replays over.

1611
01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:12,880
Speaker 4: And over and yet more and more.

1612
01:33:12,960 --> 01:33:17,560
Speaker 5: Lately, I'm leaning towards possibly the either multi dimensional and

1613
01:33:17,600 --> 01:33:22,960
even the time aspect, where even physicists look at string

1614
01:33:23,039 --> 01:33:26,560
theory and other theories thinking that time is all times

1615
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:29,279
happening at once and it's only our perception of it

1616
01:33:29,279 --> 01:33:32,079
that makes it seem linear. So somebody who sees that

1617
01:33:32,119 --> 01:33:35,039
ghost walking down the stairs, are you seeing a ghost?

1618
01:33:35,319 --> 01:33:36,880
Speaker 4: Are you? Or are you seeing.

1619
01:33:36,600 --> 01:33:40,359
Speaker 5: Maybe a live, living, breathing person who in just another

1620
01:33:40,399 --> 01:33:43,680
time period that you can whatever conditions happen, you're just

1621
01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:45,000
temporarily seeing them.

1622
01:33:45,279 --> 01:33:47,640
Speaker 1: Right see. And that's that was one of the things

1623
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:49,479
that really crossed my mind with the fellow up there

1624
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:54,520
in the state Gameland, seeing that the creature did not

1625
01:33:54,600 --> 01:34:01,720
look at him. Was the creature in another era area,

1626
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:08,119
era time zone dimension that he saw it for that

1627
01:34:08,199 --> 01:34:12,560
brief time, but it never saw him, or you know,

1628
01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:15,039
look at it looked at him or something like that.

1629
01:34:15,479 --> 01:34:17,399
I probably would have thought a little different, but he

1630
01:34:17,439 --> 01:34:20,600
said it paid him no mind. Now, a wimarana is

1631
01:34:20,640 --> 01:34:25,039
a large dog, and two of those dogs, I mean,

1632
01:34:25,119 --> 01:34:27,159
if they'd be ripping at something trying to get to me,

1633
01:34:27,279 --> 01:34:30,159
I'd be running. There is no way I'd just ignore

1634
01:34:30,199 --> 01:34:36,800
them and just walk on. And but again, the researcher

1635
01:34:37,920 --> 01:34:41,479
has to or the investigator has to keep their mind open.

1636
01:34:42,479 --> 01:34:44,439
Like I said before, I know, there's this big riff

1637
01:34:44,479 --> 01:34:47,239
in the community of Bigfoot. The guys are saying, well,

1638
01:34:47,279 --> 01:34:49,960
we never found anything because they're interdimensional, and you got

1639
01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:52,119
the other guys saying, well you never found anything because

1640
01:34:52,159 --> 01:34:54,760
they're smarter than you are. It just goes back and

1641
01:34:54,800 --> 01:34:56,560
forth and back and forth, and you kind of get

1642
01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:59,359
tired of listening to that. What they should do is

1643
01:34:59,399 --> 01:35:02,079
keep an open mind. Yes, it could be a lost primate,

1644
01:35:02,119 --> 01:35:06,119
it could be some lost human brace from wherever. It

1645
01:35:06,159 --> 01:35:09,520
could be interdimensional, it could be a time traveler. It

1646
01:35:09,560 --> 01:35:15,640
could be a parallel world that you briefly get the glimpse.

1647
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:19,119
That's why they disappear on you. There's so many questions,

1648
01:35:19,159 --> 01:35:21,720
but you know the answers aren't there. So what they

1649
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:24,159
should do instead argue with each other, start looking for answers,

1650
01:35:24,199 --> 01:35:29,760
Start putting reports together where this happens, where people are,

1651
01:35:29,800 --> 01:35:33,800
you know, reports of where they disappear in front of them,

1652
01:35:34,359 --> 01:35:40,159
or it catches it on a camera. And I'm just

1653
01:35:40,199 --> 01:35:43,079
one of those guys that I may be wrong, but

1654
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:47,439
walking around knocking on trees, nailing baking to the wall

1655
01:35:47,520 --> 01:35:50,600
and throwing out donuts and running through torches and screaming

1656
01:35:50,600 --> 01:35:53,720
at the top of your lungs isn't going to get anything.

1657
01:35:55,159 --> 01:35:58,439
I agree. I think electronically is the way you're going

1658
01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:00,640
to get them. Set up your CA. I mean, they

1659
01:36:00,640 --> 01:36:04,960
have cameras stab trail cameras now that are wireless. They're

1660
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:07,600
good for two or three miles. You can set those

1661
01:36:07,640 --> 01:36:10,159
things high in a tree, face them down, facement and

1662
01:36:10,199 --> 01:36:12,520
direction that you're looking, and go back and sit in

1663
01:36:12,520 --> 01:36:14,000
your truck and watch them on your computer.

1664
01:36:14,239 --> 01:36:14,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1665
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:18,439
Speaker 5: At the same time, I know researchers who have used

1666
01:36:18,479 --> 01:36:21,239
them and whenever they they seem to think that these

1667
01:36:21,279 --> 01:36:24,239
creatures always seem to know when they're up, because you

1668
01:36:24,279 --> 01:36:26,199
can have activity in an area in the second they

1669
01:36:26,199 --> 01:36:30,640
put up the cameras, then the the activity stops.

1670
01:36:30,720 --> 01:36:31,920
Speaker 4: It's like they sense them.

1671
01:36:32,359 --> 01:36:35,960
Speaker 5: And you know, if if, maybe, if these creatures are

1672
01:36:36,039 --> 01:36:39,560
sensitive to electromagnetic fields, and let's face it, you have

1673
01:36:39,640 --> 01:36:42,520
these equipment, they're electrical, they have batteries.

1674
01:36:42,039 --> 01:36:45,520
Speaker 4: They're gonna have any MP for them. Yeah, that they're sensitive.

1675
01:36:45,159 --> 01:36:48,079
Speaker 5: To that, and that's why they avoid them.

1676
01:36:48,680 --> 01:36:51,079
Speaker 1: Well that and you know, I want to tell you

1677
01:36:51,079 --> 01:36:53,359
someon If I see somebody run through the woods with

1678
01:36:53,439 --> 01:36:55,079
a torch screen at the top of the lungs thrown

1679
01:36:55,079 --> 01:36:56,680
bacon at me, I'm gonna hate them in the head

1680
01:36:56,720 --> 01:36:57,199
with a stick.

1681
01:36:57,680 --> 01:37:00,359
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know it is bacon, you know, Yeah.

1682
01:37:00,199 --> 01:37:03,680
Speaker 1: I mean you can't turn Well, let's go with a

1683
01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:08,199
beef sandwich. Let me jump in there. And and for

1684
01:37:08,239 --> 01:37:10,079
the sake of the listeners aren't familiar with it, because

1685
01:37:10,079 --> 01:37:15,039
I think it's it's an amazing tale, and would you

1686
01:37:15,119 --> 01:37:20,840
mind relating the Todd Seas situation and story. And I

1687
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:27,039
just want to preface it with this, agree, disagree, skeptical believer, whatever,

1688
01:37:27,079 --> 01:37:32,319
you are, remember this fellow lost his life. You know,

1689
01:37:32,359 --> 01:37:35,239
there's family members that and so that's where the real

1690
01:37:35,279 --> 01:37:38,800
world touches, whatever you want to think. And that's a

1691
01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:41,960
shame on any level, whatever happened to them, whether you know,

1692
01:37:42,119 --> 01:37:44,800
whatever the facts are, and you know that's the real

1693
01:37:44,840 --> 01:37:47,840
fact is somebody died, and uh, that's pretty hard to

1694
01:37:47,880 --> 01:37:50,199
walk around and ignore. So I just want to put

1695
01:37:50,239 --> 01:37:52,800
that up front because I think sometimes people and that's

1696
01:37:52,840 --> 01:37:55,880
very important because there are real people about. I mean,

1697
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:58,359
there's family members involved here. So this is a joke

1698
01:37:59,279 --> 01:38:02,319
and I mean this was this was a father, a brother,

1699
01:38:02,439 --> 01:38:05,880
an uncle, you know, a cousin who had family and

1700
01:38:06,119 --> 01:38:12,920
a mom and dad and children. And the story is

1701
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:16,640
that the gentleman Toddsy's gets up you know, last time

1702
01:38:16,640 --> 01:38:20,039
he's seen lives at one am in the morning. He

1703
01:38:20,159 --> 01:38:22,720
leaves the house at five am to do some pre

1704
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:25,119
season deer spotting, which he did a lot of. He

1705
01:38:25,199 --> 01:38:28,399
was a big guy, you know, in hunting and fishing.

1706
01:38:28,399 --> 01:38:31,199
He was really enjoying that, mostly archery. And where was

1707
01:38:31,239 --> 01:38:35,279
this doubt So this was in Northumberland County, Pennsylvania. So

1708
01:38:35,520 --> 01:38:38,239
his home is at the base of the Northumberland Ridge,

1709
01:38:38,239 --> 01:38:40,279
which is a six square mile ridge in that area.

1710
01:38:41,279 --> 01:38:45,039
So he jumps on his four wheeler and he heads

1711
01:38:45,119 --> 01:38:48,800
up to the mountain, which he did a lot from

1712
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:52,880
what we gather, and it says to the wife, you know,

1713
01:38:53,359 --> 01:38:55,319
he'll be back at noon like he always is. And

1714
01:38:55,359 --> 01:39:02,600
he's dressed in camouflage lifeweight camouflage coverall, and off he goes.

1715
01:39:02,840 --> 01:39:05,479
And twelve o'clock rolls around. He doesn't show up. Two

1716
01:39:05,479 --> 01:39:09,039
o'clock rolls around. The wife gets panicked. Was very hot

1717
01:39:09,039 --> 01:39:11,079
and humid that day. She thought maybe heat stroke or

1718
01:39:11,119 --> 01:39:12,800
something like that, you know, or he had an accident

1719
01:39:12,840 --> 01:39:15,319
with the ATV. So she calls the police. Police start

1720
01:39:15,319 --> 01:39:18,119
a search party, and to make a long story short,

1721
01:39:18,399 --> 01:39:21,319
two hundred searchers go over that mountain, all six square

1722
01:39:21,359 --> 01:39:24,079
miles of it. They find the ATV a mile away.

1723
01:39:25,319 --> 01:39:29,760
There are cadaver dogs, there are search doll you know, bloodhounds,

1724
01:39:29,800 --> 01:39:33,399
there are people on horseback, ATVs, a state police helicopter.

1725
01:39:34,560 --> 01:39:38,039
They don't see him, he doesn't see them. The family's out,

1726
01:39:38,079 --> 01:39:39,880
they know exactly where he goes. They go to the

1727
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:43,960
spots he normally went to. He's not there, so there's

1728
01:39:44,000 --> 01:39:47,439
no keys with the ATV. The ATV is just parked there.

1729
01:39:47,520 --> 01:39:49,720
There's no signs of any struggle or anything like that.

1730
01:39:51,239 --> 01:39:55,279
So they searched till nightfall, and they give up at nightfall,

1731
01:39:55,439 --> 01:40:00,680
and then they resume it the first light next morning,

1732
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:05,000
same group out there looking hunting, and they don't find him.

1733
01:40:05,319 --> 01:40:11,399
And at a little before eight o'clock at night the

1734
01:40:11,439 --> 01:40:17,720
next day, a searcher sees something in the underbrush behind

1735
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:20,199
the house, like one hundred and fifty yards from the home.

1736
01:40:20,319 --> 01:40:21,960
There's a small pond and then there's a bunch of

1737
01:40:21,960 --> 01:40:23,960
old down trees and stuff, and he sees something laying

1738
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:33,520
under the down tree and it's mister C's and to

1739
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:39,880
get there would be impossible. The condition of the body

1740
01:40:41,039 --> 01:40:46,760
was remarkable in that it was becaying. Now this is

1741
01:40:46,760 --> 01:40:53,119
only in a little less than forty hours. There was

1742
01:40:53,159 --> 01:40:54,960
no way there was going to be an open casket

1743
01:40:55,000 --> 01:41:01,640
with this body. Then the strange, the strange things start

1744
01:41:01,760 --> 01:41:04,720
to happen when we looked into it, where the corner

1745
01:41:04,760 --> 01:41:07,239
said he wasn't involved yet he was the corner he

1746
01:41:07,279 --> 01:41:09,840
said he wasn't. It was somebody else, but he beat

1747
01:41:09,880 --> 01:41:13,680
that guy two years earlier in the election. The police

1748
01:41:13,680 --> 01:41:16,520
department he on us around. They weren't the ones that

1749
01:41:16,640 --> 01:41:19,239
investigated it. It was the state police. They had nothing

1750
01:41:19,239 --> 01:41:22,600
to do with it. We started looking into mister c.

1751
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:25,760
We couldn't find any records for him. No high school records,

1752
01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:28,159
no birth records. No, this record is a record. I

1753
01:41:28,159 --> 01:41:31,439
mean in plain english. I mean it was a truck drivers,

1754
01:41:31,439 --> 01:41:33,439
so they should out a Pennsylvania driver's license. He didn't.

1755
01:41:33,880 --> 01:41:35,640
I mean we couldn't find one. I found mine. I

1756
01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:37,039
found mine when I took my test when I was

1757
01:41:37,039 --> 01:41:42,439
sixteen years old. I'm sixty eight. Was on mine. I

1758
01:41:42,479 --> 01:41:46,640
went into the PENNSIL, the Social Security Death Index. I

1759
01:41:46,680 --> 01:41:48,840
looked up my father, who passed away in nineteen seventy.

1760
01:41:49,039 --> 01:41:51,640
And the information that's in there is like a name,

1761
01:41:51,800 --> 01:41:54,239
date of birth, where he worked, where we lived, our home,

1762
01:41:54,279 --> 01:41:59,439
phone number, brothers and sisters, wife's name, where he went

1763
01:41:59,479 --> 01:42:02,000
to school, he graduated, military service. I mean, all that

1764
01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:04,239
stuff is there. I went into todd Zeesis. The only

1765
01:42:04,239 --> 01:42:08,800
thing that say is born died date. Where goes down

1766
01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:11,119
to the next column, which would say family record, It

1767
01:42:11,159 --> 01:42:17,239
says none found. We looked in his background because the

1768
01:42:18,039 --> 01:42:20,079
cause of death came back as a cocaine overdose.

1769
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:21,039
Speaker 2: Ha.

1770
01:42:22,760 --> 01:42:28,000
Speaker 1: We got the autopsy report and the toxicology report, and

1771
01:42:28,039 --> 01:42:30,319
I'm sure that that Carner is very sorry that he

1772
01:42:30,399 --> 01:42:33,880
sold it to us, because that just opened up a

1773
01:42:33,880 --> 01:42:37,279
whole can of worms. The amount of degradated cocaine in

1774
01:42:37,279 --> 01:42:41,560
his body. Had he taken that amount to get that

1775
01:42:41,640 --> 01:42:46,039
amount of degrade degraded cocaine in his body, he probably

1776
01:42:46,079 --> 01:42:48,880
would have taken the hit and took about two steps

1777
01:42:48,920 --> 01:42:53,239
when he fell over dead. Things we're wrong with the

1778
01:42:53,239 --> 01:42:55,520
autopsy was they took no nasal swabs, they didn't look

1779
01:42:55,520 --> 01:43:01,239
for puncture wounds. There was very little to take from

1780
01:43:01,319 --> 01:43:05,039
the cavity. Every autopsy I've ever attended, blood was always

1781
01:43:05,039 --> 01:43:08,319
taken from the chest cavity. In his case, it wasn't

1782
01:43:08,399 --> 01:43:10,319
enough there, so they took it from the lower leg,

1783
01:43:10,680 --> 01:43:15,800
which is very odd. His autopsy showed that there was

1784
01:43:15,800 --> 01:43:21,079
no trauma. The autopsy the body was unremarkable. He had

1785
01:43:21,079 --> 01:43:24,760
no diseases. Everything was intact where it should have been. Now,

1786
01:43:25,079 --> 01:43:27,560
had he taken that amount of cocaine, there would have

1787
01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:30,880
been damage not only to the brain, but to the lungs.

1788
01:43:32,279 --> 01:43:36,560
There would have been bleeding, hematomas, just a whole lot

1789
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:39,840
of stuff missing and not going on just my experiences,

1790
01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:43,079
I mean, I took this information to forensic pathologist. I

1791
01:43:43,119 --> 01:43:45,479
took it to doctors, my brother in laws. The doctor,

1792
01:43:46,600 --> 01:43:48,399
I mean everybody looked at it said the same thing,

1793
01:43:48,439 --> 01:43:52,159
This is pretty much BS. And I said, yeah, that's

1794
01:43:52,239 --> 01:43:55,199
kind of what I figured. We looked up his if

1795
01:43:55,239 --> 01:43:57,920
he was such a huge cocaine user. We looked up

1796
01:43:57,920 --> 01:44:00,720
as criminal record. We found one thing. We found that

1797
01:44:00,760 --> 01:44:04,760
he was arrested for speeding two years prior, which he

1798
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:07,159
pled guilty to and paid the fifty dollars fine. That

1799
01:44:07,239 --> 01:44:09,560
was all we could find there. He had no military records,

1800
01:44:09,840 --> 01:44:14,399
no driver's license records, no hunting license records, no high

1801
01:44:14,439 --> 01:44:16,720
school records. Even though we do have a picture of

1802
01:44:16,760 --> 01:44:19,600
him in high school in the yearbook, the records are

1803
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:23,279
not there for him. Everybody else but not him. So basically,

1804
01:44:23,359 --> 01:44:26,119
the guy was erased. Now there's only one group I

1805
01:44:26,199 --> 01:44:30,800
know that can erase you. I'm pretty sure I don't

1806
01:44:30,840 --> 01:44:34,520
have to tell your listeners who that is. But just

1807
01:44:34,720 --> 01:44:37,359
many things wrong with the case. Family members lied to us,

1808
01:44:37,439 --> 01:44:40,119
The corner lied to us. The family said they actually

1809
01:44:40,159 --> 01:44:43,359
found He wasn't found in this camouflage clothing. He was

1810
01:44:43,399 --> 01:44:49,359
found in cut off jeans, socks and a teacher boots

1811
01:44:49,359 --> 01:44:57,560
were never found. The family found the coveralls and they

1812
01:44:57,560 --> 01:44:59,600
went through the pockets looking for the keys for the ATV.

1813
01:44:59,720 --> 01:45:01,239
Of course there was none. There was nothing else in

1814
01:45:01,239 --> 01:45:05,119
the pockets. But they did turn the uh the cover

1815
01:45:05,159 --> 01:45:08,159
alls over to the police department. And in the off

1816
01:45:08,199 --> 01:45:10,359
house report it says that the police. The corner says

1817
01:45:10,439 --> 01:45:12,520
the police department called him and said they found cocaine

1818
01:45:12,520 --> 01:45:15,359
in his pocket. Now, I don't know about you, but

1819
01:45:15,399 --> 01:45:17,239
if that would have been my brother out there, and

1820
01:45:17,279 --> 01:45:19,319
the circumstances would have been the same, and they would

1821
01:45:19,319 --> 01:45:22,159
have been cocaine in the pocket, I'd have buried it. Yeah, No,

1822
01:45:22,239 --> 01:45:25,479
kid serves no purposes at that point. Now, what was

1823
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:27,880
the distance between the ATV and where they found him

1824
01:45:27,880 --> 01:45:31,960
behind the house? One mile of extremely rough, rocky terrain

1825
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:35,600
and he had no shoes on, no shoes on uh

1826
01:45:36,199 --> 01:45:42,199
okay where his feet all cut up? Nope, thirty muddy.

1827
01:45:42,960 --> 01:45:45,560
But now here's the best part, what I call the

1828
01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:48,359
best part. Cast But there was a report given the

1829
01:45:48,439 --> 01:45:52,439
day he disappeared or yeah, the day disappeared. Yeah, the

1830
01:45:52,479 --> 01:45:56,520
day disappeared in the morning. We don't have the exact time.

1831
01:45:57,960 --> 01:46:00,640
Where some guys were fishing in the river, which is

1832
01:46:00,680 --> 01:46:02,159
right down from his house on the other side of

1833
01:46:02,159 --> 01:46:06,039
the road, and they said what they reported was a

1834
01:46:06,119 --> 01:46:09,359
craft above the power lines where the ATV was found,

1835
01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:12,359
and it looked like somebody being pulled up by a

1836
01:46:12,479 --> 01:46:16,399
light beam in their underwear. Now, at the distance from

1837
01:46:16,439 --> 01:46:21,239
the river to where the ATD was found, it would

1838
01:46:21,279 --> 01:46:24,279
look like somebody in their underwear, but in fact he

1839
01:46:24,359 --> 01:46:26,479
had on a camouflage T shirt and a pair of

1840
01:46:26,479 --> 01:46:33,239
cutoff jeans and socks. So we find something out about

1841
01:46:33,239 --> 01:46:39,000
this case. There's people working on this case in Australia.

1842
01:46:39,600 --> 01:46:44,119
We have people in New Zealand. We have psychics, we

1843
01:46:44,199 --> 01:46:49,119
have police officers, we have federal people that are with

1844
01:46:49,159 --> 01:46:51,600
our cold case unit that are working on this case.

1845
01:46:51,680 --> 01:46:55,239
And we're going into our sixth year. And my little

1846
01:46:55,359 --> 01:46:57,439
I always say, my little one inch binder that I

1847
01:46:57,479 --> 01:46:59,560
started with is now a six inch binder that's going

1848
01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:02,039
to be gredduating into a tenange binder. Shortly. I think

1849
01:47:03,520 --> 01:47:07,720
we've everything we have, We've documented, I have nothing word

1850
01:47:07,760 --> 01:47:10,520
of mouth. Everything that we got is either on an

1851
01:47:10,520 --> 01:47:13,439
email from the person that gave it to us, or

1852
01:47:13,479 --> 01:47:16,800
it's from like the toxicology people. It's on their letterhead,

1853
01:47:16,840 --> 01:47:20,000
from the autopsy, it's on their letterhead. From the corner,

1854
01:47:20,039 --> 01:47:23,279
it's on his letterhead. Police departments on their letter head.

1855
01:47:23,359 --> 01:47:25,960
So nobody's ever going to say, when this case is

1856
01:47:26,239 --> 01:47:30,239
brought to an end eventually, that we made up anything

1857
01:47:30,279 --> 01:47:33,359
about the case. Everything has been documented. It's black and

1858
01:47:33,399 --> 01:47:37,800
white on paper. The maps, the photographs, everything are verified

1859
01:47:38,119 --> 01:47:42,720
and true. So and that's the thing. It's really taken

1860
01:47:42,760 --> 01:47:44,840
a long time. You know, when somebody wants to talk

1861
01:47:44,880 --> 01:47:47,560
to you, we say, well, i'd rather if you just

1862
01:47:47,600 --> 01:47:50,680
send send me your information on an email. So whether

1863
01:47:50,720 --> 01:47:53,479
it's relevant or not, I have that information. I have

1864
01:47:53,640 --> 01:47:58,279
that request from whoever it was. And that's one of

1865
01:47:58,319 --> 01:48:01,840
the things where like I was saying earlier in the show,

1866
01:48:02,359 --> 01:48:05,039
everything needs to be documented, no matter what you do,

1867
01:48:05,359 --> 01:48:09,960
because if you have no documentation, if you just have

1868
01:48:10,039 --> 01:48:13,920
a story, you have no case, you have no evidence.

1869
01:48:14,760 --> 01:48:17,840
So if the corner says, well that U four Top group,

1870
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:20,760
they lied, I never sent him the autopsy, well I

1871
01:48:20,880 --> 01:48:23,800
have his letter, and I have the autopsy report, and

1872
01:48:23,840 --> 01:48:26,479
I got the letter and the toxicology report, and his

1873
01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:30,359
name's on him and he signed it. So if he

1874
01:48:30,439 --> 01:48:32,680
pulls that, I'll just put that all over the internet,

1875
01:48:32,720 --> 01:48:34,439
and that'll be the end of him. First of all,

1876
01:48:34,479 --> 01:48:36,239
I don't think he's allowed to sell that kind of

1877
01:48:36,279 --> 01:48:39,039
information that should have been public knowledge. Well that's top

1878
01:48:39,079 --> 01:48:45,319
because I'm sure. Yeah. So anyway, the case is still open.

1879
01:48:45,680 --> 01:48:49,640
We work it actively, and we will continue to work

1880
01:48:49,640 --> 01:48:53,359
on it till we get an answer. But right now,

1881
01:48:53,680 --> 01:48:56,039
if somebody said to me, what do I think? What

1882
01:48:56,079 --> 01:48:58,680
do I think I have with all the information that

1883
01:48:58,720 --> 01:49:01,720
we have and the condition of the body and the

1884
01:49:01,840 --> 01:49:06,680
cocaine and all the circumstances around. Either I have something

1885
01:49:06,720 --> 01:49:11,760
that's a very very strange, out of the ordinary case,

1886
01:49:12,399 --> 01:49:16,439
or I have the first case that can document a zombie.

1887
01:49:16,840 --> 01:49:19,600
Because there is no way that man in that condition

1888
01:49:21,119 --> 01:49:25,119
walked one mile or crawled one mile or flew one

1889
01:49:25,119 --> 01:49:27,600
mile to the location he was found behind his home.

1890
01:49:28,079 --> 01:49:32,119
When that whole day, that whole second day, people had

1891
01:49:32,159 --> 01:49:35,119
to walk by that location to get on the trail

1892
01:49:35,680 --> 01:49:40,239
to go over to the ridge. So all these people

1893
01:49:40,279 --> 01:49:42,399
are walking past this body and they don't see it.

1894
01:49:43,439 --> 01:49:47,039
They don't smell it when they're looking for it. Now,

1895
01:49:47,079 --> 01:49:49,159
the dogs don't smell it. Let me tell you something.

1896
01:49:49,159 --> 01:49:50,840
I worked with a cadaver dog one time, found the

1897
01:49:50,840 --> 01:49:55,199
body four foot under dirt and rock. Yeah, that's they

1898
01:49:55,199 --> 01:49:57,880
don't make mistakes like that was there Also, if I

1899
01:49:57,960 --> 01:50:00,359
remember correctly, there's a bit of an op. He was

1900
01:50:00,479 --> 01:50:05,079
his casket and well, yeah, the casket was sealed. They

1901
01:50:05,159 --> 01:50:09,800
say some things we couldn't document because people just clammed up,

1902
01:50:10,039 --> 01:50:14,279
which was like the funeral director and the even though

1903
01:50:14,319 --> 01:50:18,000
the corner had the funeral director, had a funeral home

1904
01:50:18,079 --> 01:50:19,640
or has a funeral home, he was not the one

1905
01:50:19,640 --> 01:50:22,399
that had the burial. It was another outfit in the town.

1906
01:50:23,880 --> 01:50:25,640
But when you look at the condition of the body

1907
01:50:25,920 --> 01:50:28,039
through the autopsy report, you can't understand why it was

1908
01:50:28,039 --> 01:50:29,920
a closed casket. There was no way they were going

1909
01:50:29,960 --> 01:50:31,840
to open up a casket for this guy, so he

1910
01:50:31,960 --> 01:50:35,880
was in a sealed casket. But to make that proper,

1911
01:50:36,720 --> 01:50:39,239
I've seen reports where people have said, well the casket

1912
01:50:39,319 --> 01:50:41,199
was lad and it was sealed, and it was welded

1913
01:50:41,279 --> 01:50:44,159
shut and this, that and the other nonsense. All caskets

1914
01:50:44,199 --> 01:50:49,239
are sealed, right, I mean when they turn those locks

1915
01:50:49,439 --> 01:50:52,479
that they pull that little piece of plastic tape off,

1916
01:50:52,520 --> 01:50:55,479
there's that's a that's a tar strip, and that seals

1917
01:50:55,479 --> 01:51:00,279
the casket. But anyway, one of the other things that

1918
01:51:00,560 --> 01:51:04,800
was unique was when I asked one one of my

1919
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:09,159
cold case members, if asked the family why the dogs

1920
01:51:09,199 --> 01:51:12,880
didn't smell the body, could a condition it was in?

1921
01:51:13,399 --> 01:51:15,960
They said, Oh, we had this terrible rain. Here's where

1922
01:51:16,000 --> 01:51:18,199
weather played a big part. Went right back to the weather,

1923
01:51:18,399 --> 01:51:21,199
pulled the weather for that location for that day, for

1924
01:51:21,279 --> 01:51:26,560
those hours, for that day, it rained zero point zz

1925
01:51:27,079 --> 01:51:31,479
zero one inch. Well there you go, that's not even

1926
01:51:31,600 --> 01:51:35,119
enough to wet my driveway. No, that's not even a sprinkle. Nope.

1927
01:51:35,560 --> 01:51:38,720
So this hard rain that was told us that's why

1928
01:51:38,760 --> 01:51:41,600
they couldn't see or smell the body. And nowhere else

1929
01:51:41,640 --> 01:51:43,880
in any report does it say that the rain that

1930
01:51:43,960 --> 01:51:49,000
day they still smell the body. I mean that's oh yeah, absolutely.

1931
01:51:49,600 --> 01:51:51,680
And the condition that body was, you should have been

1932
01:51:51,720 --> 01:51:56,199
able to smell this guy within a mile. Really it was.

1933
01:51:56,199 --> 01:51:58,399
It was bad. And to get to that here and

1934
01:51:58,439 --> 01:52:00,520
here's another part, you know, which we're still working on him,

1935
01:52:00,520 --> 01:52:04,399
were still getting information from forensic guys. Excuse me, Yeah,

1936
01:52:04,399 --> 01:52:07,319
how do you get that decayed that quickly? Exactly? I

1937
01:52:07,359 --> 01:52:11,800
mean the body takes a body takes certain steps when

1938
01:52:11,840 --> 01:52:14,600
it when it's gone. Uh, you know, you have liver mortis,

1939
01:52:14,680 --> 01:52:17,119
you have rigor mortis, then that goes away, and then

1940
01:52:17,159 --> 01:52:22,039
you have the stage where you know, larva stage for maggots,

1941
01:52:22,039 --> 01:52:24,079
and then flies and it goes on and on and

1942
01:52:24,079 --> 01:52:28,399
on till it rots. But this guy had skin slippage already. Yeah.

1943
01:52:28,439 --> 01:52:32,359
See that's even if it's warm temperature. I mean, I mean,

1944
01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:39,000
he wasn't bloated. Uh, they couldn't take any fluid from

1945
01:52:39,000 --> 01:52:42,319
the eyes because they said the eyes were pretty much gone. Wow,

1946
01:52:44,000 --> 01:52:49,640
you know, from from from decay. And if you look

1947
01:52:49,640 --> 01:52:52,359
at a person that's laid and not particularly him, but

1948
01:52:52,479 --> 01:52:54,880
you look at anybody a cadaver that's out in the

1949
01:52:55,039 --> 01:52:59,800
in the in the open, the fluid in the eyes

1950
01:53:00,079 --> 01:53:03,720
dry up and they just it's it's like letting a

1951
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:05,720
grape out in the sun, you know, it just shrivels up. Well,

1952
01:53:05,760 --> 01:53:08,439
that's what the same thing happens to the eye. And

1953
01:53:08,640 --> 01:53:11,600
it's there, but there's there's nothing there. I mean, it's

1954
01:53:11,680 --> 01:53:13,640
it's not round anymore. It's kind of like a like

1955
01:53:13,680 --> 01:53:17,640
a dried out fluid. So yeah, the district Fisher's fluid

1956
01:53:17,680 --> 01:53:23,680
is gone. It's it's just one of these cases that

1957
01:53:23,720 --> 01:53:25,560
we're just not going to give up on. There's just

1958
01:53:25,600 --> 01:53:29,119
too much there. And that took place in twenty ten,

1959
01:53:29,319 --> 01:53:33,079
if I'm correct, right, two thousand and two, two oh

1960
01:53:33,119 --> 01:53:38,479
that long ago. Yeah wow. And I was asked about

1961
01:53:38,520 --> 01:53:40,920
it at a conference, and to be honest, I didn't

1962
01:53:40,920 --> 01:53:43,279
even know about it. I said, I never heard that story.

1963
01:53:43,319 --> 01:53:45,399
But when I came home from the conference, I pulled

1964
01:53:45,399 --> 01:53:49,399
it up and the original reporter was Peter Davenport from

1965
01:53:49,479 --> 01:53:56,239
Newport around Washington State. But his whole report is information

1966
01:53:56,439 --> 01:54:02,680
garnered from the newspapers. Very few anything in there that's

1967
01:54:02,720 --> 01:54:05,840
from anybody like We talked to some friends, and he

1968
01:54:05,920 --> 01:54:07,960
was very big with the Little League. We talked to

1969
01:54:08,000 --> 01:54:09,560
some people that were with the Little League. He was

1970
01:54:09,800 --> 01:54:12,319
involved with those kids for a long, long, long, long time,

1971
01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:15,159
and they said, let me tell you something. The one

1972
01:54:15,159 --> 01:54:17,239
guy said, if he would have had a hint of

1973
01:54:17,319 --> 01:54:20,880
any drugs being used by Todd Seas, he wouldn't have

1974
01:54:20,880 --> 01:54:24,600
got within five blocks of these kids. No way, impossible.

1975
01:54:26,000 --> 01:54:32,720
And we checked with halfway houses, we checked with the county,

1976
01:54:32,800 --> 01:54:34,720
we checked with everybody that would handle, you know, that

1977
01:54:34,760 --> 01:54:36,880
type of a situation where you have a drug addict.

1978
01:54:37,520 --> 01:54:40,880
They didn't have nothing on this guy, So did any

1979
01:54:40,880 --> 01:54:43,520
of the local papers champion this story as being god

1980
01:54:43,760 --> 01:54:47,000
or they just well, they didn't until we got involved

1981
01:54:48,039 --> 01:54:51,880
about the end of the first year. We could still

1982
01:54:51,920 --> 01:54:55,600
get the stuff from the newspaper in their archives, right,

1983
01:54:56,119 --> 01:55:00,359
which we got and printed and you know, documented and

1984
01:55:00,399 --> 01:55:04,479
put into our evidence file. Now that whole thing has

1985
01:55:04,520 --> 01:55:07,640
been white it's not even on their archives anymore. And

1986
01:55:07,720 --> 01:55:10,199
how did they explain that when you question, you know,

1987
01:55:10,319 --> 01:55:13,359
I mean, if they don't, they don't. They just don't respond,

1988
01:55:13,840 --> 01:55:16,359
just like they don't the fire company doesn't even have

1989
01:55:16,439 --> 01:55:19,560
a man they're supposed to have a report for even

1990
01:55:19,640 --> 01:55:22,880
going out on that call those two days. And what

1991
01:55:22,920 --> 01:55:27,119
did the state police say. The investigator that handled that

1992
01:55:27,239 --> 01:55:31,279
case retired I think in two thousand and seven six,

1993
01:55:32,119 --> 01:55:34,880
and I wasn't looking at it until you know, two

1994
01:55:34,880 --> 01:55:39,840
thousand and nine. You can't get and they won't give

1995
01:55:39,880 --> 01:55:41,800
you any information like where he lives or anything like

1996
01:55:41,840 --> 01:55:45,000
that town of course not well that you understand that,

1997
01:55:45,079 --> 01:55:48,119
But however, you know, if it's for the public record,

1998
01:55:48,199 --> 01:55:50,520
I mean, those records have to be ringed. Ah. But

1999
01:55:50,560 --> 01:55:54,359
there's a way to get around that which the attorney

2000
01:55:55,560 --> 01:55:59,800
for the county district attorney for that county can't release

2001
01:55:59,800 --> 01:56:03,239
any that information because it is still an open case pace, right,

2002
01:56:03,439 --> 01:56:06,800
and so they get around that. Yep. And you said

2003
01:56:06,800 --> 01:56:10,479
you and if I remember an interview you conducted and

2004
01:56:10,600 --> 01:56:16,399
I heard prior to this that the corner was less

2005
01:56:16,399 --> 01:56:20,000
than forthcoming, the funeral director was less than fourth coming.

2006
01:56:20,039 --> 01:56:22,560
Oh yeah, they all lied. We got them, I mean

2007
01:56:23,079 --> 01:56:28,439
what they told us in emails. And then we responded

2008
01:56:28,439 --> 01:56:31,960
by saying, just take the corner. He was not at

2009
01:56:31,960 --> 01:56:34,039
the scene. He doesn't know when the body was found

2010
01:56:34,079 --> 01:56:36,920
or where it was found. He was the only corner.

2011
01:56:36,680 --> 01:56:38,640
Speaker 4: To see Jill and I hate to be.

2012
01:56:38,880 --> 01:56:41,199
Speaker 1: Corner retired two years prior, and he beat him in

2013
01:56:41,199 --> 01:56:41,640
the election.

2014
01:56:42,920 --> 01:56:44,359
Speaker 4: I hate to be the bearer of bad news.

2015
01:56:44,399 --> 01:56:47,119
Speaker 5: But we are literally coming up on one minute till

2016
01:56:47,119 --> 01:56:51,720
the show is out. So Butch, thank you so much

2017
01:56:51,760 --> 01:56:53,000
for coming on the show tonight.

2018
01:56:53,159 --> 01:56:53,439
Speaker 4: Again.

2019
01:56:53,600 --> 01:56:57,439
Speaker 5: Another fabulous conversation with you tonight. As you could tell,

2020
01:56:57,439 --> 01:56:59,239
we could have kept going at least another hour or

2021
01:56:59,279 --> 01:57:02,880
two here, oh at least real quick, Where can people

2022
01:57:02,920 --> 01:57:03,439
find you?

2023
01:57:05,399 --> 01:57:12,119
Speaker 1: Www? UFO r coop dot com. And that's on Facebook

2024
01:57:12,199 --> 01:57:15,479
or our website on Facebook. They just click on Facebook

2025
01:57:15,520 --> 01:57:20,960
and they can go to U four cop website and

2026
01:57:21,560 --> 01:57:25,279
there's a lot of information there. They can go to

2027
01:57:25,319 --> 01:57:29,399
our homepage, our website and go to our closed cases

2028
01:57:29,399 --> 01:57:32,119
Open cases. They can see what we're doing where we're at.

2029
01:57:33,920 --> 01:57:36,479
We are going to have a paranormal roundtable on April eighteenth,

2030
01:57:36,520 --> 01:57:39,399
twenty fifteen, in Alberta, Pennsylvania. They can find that information

2031
01:57:39,520 --> 01:57:41,680
also on there. So if you want to sit down

2032
01:57:41,720 --> 01:57:43,680
with a whole bunch of investigators and ask us the

2033
01:57:43,760 --> 01:57:46,680
questions and get the answers you're looking for, we'll be

2034
01:57:46,760 --> 01:57:48,880
there from eight o'clock, nine o'clock in the morning toll

2035
01:57:48,880 --> 01:57:49,600
eight o'clock at night.

2036
01:57:49,960 --> 01:57:52,720
Speaker 5: Well again, but thank you very much for coming on

2037
01:57:52,760 --> 01:57:54,199
the show. We really loved having you.

2038
01:57:54,199 --> 01:57:57,600
Speaker 1: On anytime guys for me, thank you very much. Man,

2039
01:57:57,640 --> 01:57:58,439
all the best for you.

2040
01:57:58,520 --> 01:57:59,319
Speaker 4: And Vigure everyone.

2041
01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:02,479
Speaker 5: Thanks everyone for listening to another edition of Unknown Origins.

2042
01:58:02,600 --> 01:58:02,880
Speaker 4: Radio.

2043
01:58:03,720 --> 01:58:06,439
Speaker 5: Tune in every Thursday night here at eight pm Eastern

2044
01:58:06,479 --> 01:58:09,000
Standard Time on the Dark Matter Radio Network.

2045
01:58:09,520 --> 01:58:11,560
Speaker 1: We'll see you next week, everybody, Take care

2046
01:58:11,600 --> 01:58:12,600
Speaker 4: Of everyone, Have a good evening.