Speaker 1: I think that truly what's going to happen as digital
Speaker 1: asset space starts to merge with the traditional financial players,
Speaker 1: as you're going to see a revolution take place as
Speaker 1: it pertains to just our financial lives generally as consumers.
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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Tony here. We are down at Station three
Speaker 2: in New York's Financial District, and my guest today is
Speaker 2: Bo Hines, who's the executive director of the Presidential Council
Speaker 2: of Advisors for Digital Assets. Bo. Great to have you.
Speaker 3: It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: Bo. You are on the forefront working with David Sachson,
Speaker 2: the President, on crypto policy and different initiatives. I have
Speaker 2: lots of questions for you, but i'd love to start
Speaker 2: with your background. Where'd you grow up? What did you
Speaker 2: want to be when you're growing up?
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good question.
Speaker 1: No one's asked me that over the course in the
Speaker 1: last two months, and all honesty. So I grew up
Speaker 1: in Cherrow at, North Carolina to an entrepreneurial family. My
Speaker 1: parents actually grew up as farmers in rural Indiana. My
Speaker 1: dad grew up in the northern part of the state
Speaker 1: and my mom grew up in the southern part of Indiana.
Speaker 1: But he started a licensing pro company in which they
Speaker 1: consolidated a lot of the NASCAR licenses which brought him
Speaker 1: originally to North Carolina. So I like to claim I'm
Speaker 1: the only true born North Carolinian in my family. My
Speaker 1: sister was also born in Indianapolis. So you know, I
Speaker 1: think that just coming from a family with the entrepreneurial
Speaker 1: spirit really shaped who I was and what I wanted
Speaker 1: to do. But with that being said, I did the
Speaker 1: two things I think that my dad probably wasn't as
Speaker 1: fond of, which is one becoming a lawyer and to
Speaker 1: a politician, a non practicing lawyer.
Speaker 3: I should say.
Speaker 1: But in the grand scheme of things, you know, very
Speaker 1: close knit family. We all live very close by.
Speaker 3: I actually live in the same neighborhood as my parents
Speaker 3: in Charlotte.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: And that's really helpful as I have a six and
Speaker 1: a half month old now my wife and I do
Speaker 1: little Robert Theodore. But you know, I think that for me,
Speaker 1: I'd always been fascinated just by how the business world,
Speaker 1: you know, intertwined with politicians and regulators and how government
Speaker 1: could really you know, play instrumental role in creating an
Speaker 1: environment which would allow people to thrive and or stifle innovation.
Speaker 1: And I think that in this space, obviously with digital assets.
Speaker 1: We've seen a government regime that has stifled innovation in
Speaker 1: the space for quite some time, really over the last
Speaker 1: decade and a half, moreover under the Biden under the
Speaker 1: Biden regulatory regime specifically in the last four years, we've seen,
Speaker 1: you know, folks in this industry be victims of lawfare
Speaker 1: and just unfair regulation practices generally. And so that's something
Speaker 1: that you know, we're extremely excited to fix under leadership
Speaker 1: of President Trump and our AI and cryptos are David Sachs.
Speaker 1: We feel like we're well in our way of doing that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a complete change, a complete one to eighty
Speaker 2: from what was happening over the past four years. As
Speaker 2: someone who is interviewing entrepreneurs and innovators and people were
Speaker 2: just looking to build technology and they didn't have any
Speaker 2: political agenda, but they were getting attacked politically from different angles.
Speaker 2: And it's just night and day compared.
Speaker 3: To what was going Sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Now I wanted to go back to your background because
Speaker 2: I read that you played football and tell us a
Speaker 2: bit about that. And also if the universe had changed
Speaker 2: your path, where you know with NFL team, would you
Speaker 2: want to play.
Speaker 3: For oh Man. Well, you know, football is a big
Speaker 3: part of my life growing up. My dad played.
Speaker 1: He had a brief stint with the Detroit Lions, which
Speaker 1: you know that became my team, which was a very
Speaker 1: painful childhood for most of my life as a Detroit
Speaker 1: Lions football fan. I remember the own sixteen years and
Speaker 1: it's great to see how they've they've turned the ship
Speaker 1: around there. But my dad was a football coach to
Speaker 1: me my entire life growing up, coaching all the way
Speaker 1: through high school. And you know, I had the opportunity
Speaker 1: to play football in North Carolnta State on scholarship, and
Speaker 1: I took that opportunity. It had a you know, a
Speaker 1: very successful freshman campaign there as a receiver, and it
Speaker 1: made it easier. I had a phenomenal quarterback in Jacoby
Speaker 1: Brissett who's still playing the NFL today. But you know,
Speaker 1: I think that really it shaped me in many ways.
Speaker 1: One is, you know, just being able to pursue things
Speaker 1: that are difficult. You know, being a college athlete, it's
Speaker 1: not easy, especially at that level. And I have a
Speaker 1: immense amount of respect for all the you know, men
Speaker 1: and women that that.
Speaker 3: Engage in athletics at the collegiate level.
Speaker 1: I had the opportunity to also play at Yale for
Speaker 1: two years after I was at NC State, and that's
Speaker 1: where I ended up graduating. Unfortunately, I had a few
Speaker 1: injuries and I was up there and I kind of
Speaker 1: felt like, you know, it was time to change directions
Speaker 1: a little bit. But you know, if I had to
Speaker 1: pick an NFL team to play for, I'd have to
Speaker 1: say the Lions. And I have to go back to
Speaker 1: my roots here for a second. But you know, I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed my experience just just playing the sport. I
Speaker 1: mean it just you're able to build just a sense
Speaker 1: of camaraderie, learn how to work with a team, do
Speaker 1: things that are challenging with other people.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, you can use a
Speaker 1: lot of those same principles and apply those two to
Speaker 1: anything you're doing in life.
Speaker 2: Is that what kind of made you go into politics
Speaker 2: because you have to work for the people essentially.
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 1: I think one thing that's unique about you know, college
Speaker 1: athletics generally is in a locker room, you have people
Speaker 1: that come from all different diverse backgrounds and walks of life,
Speaker 1: and you have to figure out how to how to
Speaker 1: you know, become friends with these folks, learn what their
Speaker 1: stories are, what their perspectives are, and really just work
Speaker 1: together as one unit. And I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: if we could do more of that in politics, would
Speaker 1: be a lot better off as a country. But I
Speaker 1: think in this perspective with Digilast's what's fun about this
Speaker 1: is that you know, this is something this is something
Speaker 1: that's extremely bipartisan. You know, it's so important for our
Speaker 1: country to be at the forefront of digital technological innovation
Speaker 1: and you know, really the leader of the globe in
Speaker 1: the space as we attempt to revolutionize the financial marketplace forever.
Speaker 2: So both take us behind a curtain. What's it been
Speaker 2: like working with David Sachs and the President? And it
Speaker 2: maybe take us what does your day to day look
Speaker 2: like and what are you working on?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, first and foremost, I have to say
Speaker 1: that David is an unbelievably brilliant human being. And obviously
Speaker 1: he's demonstrated his immense success in the private sector, in
Speaker 1: the VC world and all the projects that he's been
Speaker 1: a part of. But we're just, you know, unbelievably thankful
Speaker 1: to have him in the White House. And I think
Speaker 1: the President made a phenomenal choice as it relates to
Speaker 1: someone that could deal with both crypto and AI, as
Speaker 1: he you know, understands both spaces truly in and out.
Speaker 3: But he's he's just phenomenal to work with.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: He takes a lot of the same principles that I
Speaker 1: described in terms of working with teams and developing folks
Speaker 1: and putting them in the right positions that you see
Speaker 1: in athletics, right, But that's just a testament to his
Speaker 1: leadership skills, whether it be in the business community or now,
Speaker 1: you know, with these political principles applied, I don't see
Speaker 1: it being any different. He's just he's we work handing
Speaker 1: glove together on all of these issues as it relates
Speaker 1: to crypto, and you know, I can't say enough good
Speaker 1: things about him just as a person and the leadership
Speaker 1: qualities that he has.
Speaker 2: How did you find yourself in this role? How did
Speaker 2: you meet David first? Or the president first? How dup happening?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So, actually, I'll I'll go back a little bit.
Speaker 1: So my during my college or my college freshman football
Speaker 1: campaign and thence he stayed actually played in the Bitcoin Bowl,
Speaker 1: which sparked my interest in cryptocurrency. I ended up buying
Speaker 1: my first bitcoin shortly thereafter and became a pretty avid
Speaker 1: trader across multiple ecosystems back when it was a lot
Speaker 1: less uh kuth uh, to say the least. And you know,
Speaker 1: certainly have empathy for the folks in the industry that
Speaker 1: have dealt with, you know, the battles amongst institutional players
Speaker 1: that didn't understand the space for a long time, and
Speaker 1: I saw that even from just a retail perspective. But
Speaker 1: you know, I ended up graduating from MEO. I went
Speaker 1: to law school at Wake Forest, and I had the
Speaker 1: privilege of learning from Professor Hawk, who taught blockchain internet
Speaker 1: law there, and you know, really enjoyed those topics, and obviously,
Speaker 1: being a participant from the retail side, I just had
Speaker 1: a keen interest on learning more about the space and
Speaker 1: stayed in tune with all the regulatory battles that were
Speaker 1: going on. But I ended up running for Congress while
Speaker 1: I was in law school, and I won the nomination
Speaker 1: and a very contentious seat. You know, this was like,
Speaker 1: I think, a Biden plus point six district as basically
Speaker 1: as purple as you can get, and ended up losing
Speaker 1: my race unfortunately, but learned a lot in that process
Speaker 1: and just really loved, you know, the community aspect of
Speaker 1: it all again, like getting getting able to learn people's
Speaker 1: stories and hear from them, figure out who people are
Speaker 1: and what they're doing inside of your community, which is
Speaker 1: something that really drove me. And so I stayed in
Speaker 1: tune with the political process and ended up starting a
Speaker 1: strategic growth equity firm with two other partners, one of
Speaker 1: which is my father. But you know, we were more
Speaker 1: in the tried by side of things. We look for
Speaker 1: companies in the data, tech and marketing space and we
Speaker 1: ended up servicing you know, super PACs and PR firms
Speaker 1: and a lot of different political verticals. And so I
Speaker 1: was able just to stay in touch with what was
Speaker 1: happening on the political side along with what was happening
Speaker 1: in this space. And you know, the President endorsed me
Speaker 1: in my first congressional race, so I had that connection there.
Speaker 1: But you know, after you know, his his mandate of
Speaker 1: a victory. In this past November, I found myself down
Speaker 1: in Transition and we were talking about what are we're
Speaker 1: going to do with digital assets. We know how important
Speaker 1: this is for our country, we know it's a priority
Speaker 1: for the president. You know, this kind of just naturally
Speaker 1: came together. So David and I started talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: what our plan would look like to make the United
Speaker 1: States the crypto capital.
Speaker 3: Of the world and to usher in the golden age
Speaker 3: for digital assets. And I feel like we're well our
Speaker 3: way of doing that though.
Speaker 2: So do you see this industry in addition to other
Speaker 2: industries there's AI, robotics and things that are on the rise,
Speaker 2: but being a big driver of wealth creation, job creation
Speaker 2: kind of what the Internet did for us, right with Google,
Speaker 2: your Googles, your Amazons, and the rest is history there.
Speaker 3: Oh, I think absolutely.
Speaker 1: I think that truly what's going to happen as digital
Speaker 1: asset space starts to merge with the traditional financial players,
Speaker 1: as you're going to see a revolution take place as
Speaker 1: it pertains to just our financial lives generally as consumers.
Speaker 1: And we're talk about stable coins and you know what
Speaker 1: that's going to do to payment rails in terms of
Speaker 1: making things more expeditious. You know, you can get even
Speaker 1: farther and more broad when you start talking about just security,
Speaker 1: tokenization generally and the way that things can move. You know,
Speaker 1: I think that I was asked about this this morning
Speaker 1: at a conference that I spoke at you know, will
Speaker 1: my son see the same financial system.
Speaker 3: That that I grew up in? And the answer to
Speaker 3: that is absolutely not.
Speaker 1: And you know that's a credit to really what this
Speaker 1: industry has done over the course of the last decade
Speaker 1: in the midst of headwinds. Now we have tailwinds, and
Speaker 1: I think we have the ability to make monumental changes,
Speaker 1: but it's going to be you know, we have a
Speaker 1: very unique opportunity in time to do that, and I
Speaker 1: think that we need to capitalize on it and move
Speaker 1: very quickly, which I think the President and David both recognize,
Speaker 1: and that's why we're pushing so hard.
Speaker 2: I heard President Trump, I think it was at the
Speaker 2: White House Crypto summit. He said he wants Congress to
Speaker 2: have the market structure and stable coin bills on his
Speaker 2: desk before the August recess. Is that possible? You think
Speaker 2: Congress can move and get this done.
Speaker 3: It's more than possible.
Speaker 1: I think it would be, you know, just a derelict
Speaker 1: of duty from my perspective in my office if we
Speaker 1: don't get both of those things on his desk before
Speaker 1: August recess. And you know what, I'm super thankful for
Speaker 1: the leadership that we have in both chambers on the
Speaker 1: Hill right now as well, because I think that was
Speaker 1: something that was missed on a lot of folks, just
Speaker 1: you know, an industry and beyond was when they came
Speaker 1: together with David and announced the by camera Working Group
Speaker 1: on Digital Assets between the chambers at the beginning of
Speaker 1: this Congress. I think that was just a monumental step
Speaker 1: towards really this industry maturing and being recognized as the
Speaker 1: legitimate player that it is in financial systems more generally.
Speaker 1: You know, this is the first time that the chambers
Speaker 1: had come together and said we're going to make sure
Speaker 1: that we pass meaningful legislation as it relates to this space,
Speaker 1: and now they're moving expeditiously to do that. So, I
Speaker 1: mean with stable coins, you saw that we had an
Speaker 1: eighteen to six bipartisan vote out of the Senate Banking
Speaker 1: Committee with the Genius Act. I mean, that's incredible to
Speaker 1: see and it just shows you, you know, the will
Speaker 1: that Congress has to get this stuff done. And then
Speaker 1: obviously the House introduced their bill this past week and
Speaker 1: they're going up into markups this week there, so you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like they're moving along expeditiously. As expeditiously as
Speaker 1: we could have hoped. And you know, our job is
Speaker 1: to just you know, continue to provide support and usher
Speaker 1: that process along. But you know, I'm so confident in
Speaker 1: the leaders that we have, whether it's Chairman Hill or
Speaker 1: Chairman Scott, sub committee chair you know, Brian Style and
Speaker 1: a lot of these other members have just done so
Speaker 1: much for the space. And I'd be remiss not to
Speaker 1: mention Senator Lummas as well and Senator Haggerty, who are
Speaker 1: working diligently to make sure that the President's wishes are met.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just had a Congressman Style on and we
Speaker 2: talked a lot about the plans and getting that bill
Speaker 2: in the House getting through because we got the market
Speaker 2: structure last year fit twenty one, so things are moving,
Speaker 2: which is great. I would love if you could take
Speaker 2: us behind the curtain of wood President Trump. Obviously we've
Speaker 2: heard his statements publicly about digital assens and crypto. What
Speaker 2: is he saying behind closed doors? You know? Is he
Speaker 2: a fan of bitcoin? He's a fan of the theorem.
Speaker 2: How does he? I know, he has a lot of
Speaker 2: his plate, So I'm not by only being saying this
Speaker 2: is the top thing, but anything you can share there.
Speaker 1: The President is a fan of American dominance, and I
Speaker 1: can say that, you know, this space truly plays an
Speaker 1: integral role in securing that, just in terms of US
Speaker 1: dour dominance through stables, right, and just in a sense
Speaker 1: of what we can build with technology in this space
Speaker 1: as it relates to the financial system more generally.
Speaker 3: And in order to.
Speaker 1: Do that, we have to have clear regulatory authority established.
Speaker 1: We need to show people what the actual rules are
Speaker 1: so they can play playing the same game together. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: this is something that seems simple when you start to
Speaker 1: talking about it in principle, but the reality is there's
Speaker 1: a lot of moving parts to all of this. And
Speaker 1: I think that you know, the Presiden's done a phenomenal
Speaker 1: job just pulling the right actors together in the room.
Speaker 1: And then you know, the creation of this office. There's
Speaker 1: never been an office in the White House fully dedicated
Speaker 1: to the digital asset space, and that's a testament to
Speaker 1: the President's leadership here as well. I think that one
Speaker 1: thing that was missing here for quite some time is that,
Speaker 1: you know, we kind of view ourselves as being an
Speaker 1: administrator and or shirpa between interagency activity, White House policy
Speaker 1: industry and the Hill, and our job is to make
Speaker 1: sure that everyone's singing from the same sheet of music,
Speaker 1: right And again, like that, that's the President's vision coming
Speaker 1: to light about how we actually pushed the ball forward
Speaker 1: as it pertains to this industry and get things done.
Speaker 1: And I think it's proven to be very successful. I mean,
Speaker 1: look how fast some of these interagency actors have moved.
Speaker 1: And that goes back to the first Digital Assets CEO
Speaker 1: the President signed on day three, which he created the
Speaker 1: Internal Working Group, which is comprised of all the relevant
Speaker 1: actors that touch anything you know, related to this space,
Speaker 1: just in terms of agencies and other White House offices,
Speaker 1: and that gives us really common ground to come together
Speaker 1: and have conversations that are necessary to get to the
Speaker 1: right outcomes. And part of my job too, and what
Speaker 1: I've done over the course of the last few months
Speaker 1: is just take on as many meetings with industry as
Speaker 1: I possibly can. You know, I'm very keen on the
Speaker 1: idea that industry does know best. I mean, these these
Speaker 1: folks live, breathe, and sleep this every day and they've
Speaker 1: you know, they've all faced a unique set of challenges,
Speaker 1: whether they're glias in the space or whether they're startups.
Speaker 1: You know, we want to hear from everybody that allows
Speaker 1: us to basically garner information and translate that information to
Speaker 1: something that's digestible and palatable for other folks to receive
Speaker 1: that maybe don't interact with the space as much or
Speaker 1: don't understand why, you know, this.
Speaker 3: Is so important.
Speaker 1: And so we've really taken that upon ourselves in our
Speaker 1: office to do that, and I think that we're you know,
Speaker 1: so far we've been successful.
Speaker 2: Oh for sure. Yeah, a lot of progress, made, a
Speaker 2: lot of promises kept, which is which is really great.
Speaker 2: Talk to us a bit about the stable coin aspect,
Speaker 2: because geopolitically their bricks nations are looking to bypass the
Speaker 2: US dollar US dollars the world reserve currency, and China
Speaker 2: has been declining in its buying of treasury bonds, but
Speaker 2: stable coin issuers are on the rise in holding those treasuries.
Speaker 2: What role will US back dollar stable US dollar back
Speaker 2: stable coins, excuse me play and help preserving the reserve
Speaker 2: currency status.
Speaker 3: It's instrumental.
Speaker 1: I think the reality that folks have to understand is
Speaker 1: that actors in other countries or citizens of other nations
Speaker 1: still want US hours right and stable coins provides a
Speaker 1: pathway for them to achieve that, whether it's the hedge
Speaker 1: against inflation in their own countries or just just to
Speaker 1: feel financially secure enough with a dour system that is
Speaker 1: used throughout the rest of the globe. Right, so it
Speaker 1: gives them the ability to engage in payments and services
Speaker 1: that they might otherwise not have access to. So I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that it plays a huge part of that
Speaker 1: just in terms of securing US hour dominance for decades
Speaker 1: to come. You know, we'll get through the stable coin
Speaker 1: legislation successful. I know that both chambers have introduced legislation.
Speaker 1: I think they're about ninety percent similar. So I mean,
Speaker 1: as we start working through this in conference or however
Speaker 1: they decide to do it procedurally, I think that we'll
Speaker 1: end up getting this on the President's desk in short
Speaker 1: order and ensuring that everything that I've described can become a.
Speaker 2: Reality for sure. Now, from a macro perspective, it feels
Speaker 2: like we're living in the fourth Industrial Revolution and we've
Speaker 2: had ones where the combustion engine, electricity, light bulb and
Speaker 2: all these things came to fruition and it changed the world. Right,
Speaker 2: you go back to early nineteen hundreds, we have the Internet, AI, robotics,
Speaker 2: and on top of the Internet, blockchain and crypto. Is
Speaker 2: the administration or the gum federal government as a whole
Speaker 2: looking at it that way, this is the start of
Speaker 2: the next industrial revolution and potential economic boom.
Speaker 1: I mean, I certainly think that we are in our office,
Speaker 1: and the administration is. The President certainly is, and that
Speaker 1: you know, hence why he's set this up the way
Speaker 1: that he has. But I think that people don't really
Speaker 1: fully recognize yet the way this is going to impact
Speaker 1: their lives to day basis in terms of how they
Speaker 1: interact with the financial system and how they interact with
Speaker 1: their own finances. I mean, just their ability in terms
Speaker 1: of expicious payments and you know, frictionless environment in which
Speaker 1: you're not waiting on an intermediary to do certain things
Speaker 1: for you, and the way that you move money or interchange.
Speaker 3: Services and goods.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's a big step, and it's something
Speaker 1: that I don't think most people recognize is on the horizon,
Speaker 1: but it certainly is. And I think what's unique about this,
Speaker 1: and you've kind of pointed this out in your question,
Speaker 1: is that the financial systems themselves have been archaic in nature, right,
Speaker 1: So we've seen the Internet boom and all the things
Speaker 1: that have come from that, the way that people communicate,
Speaker 1: whether it be through social media channels, whether it be
Speaker 1: through chat services, all of that good stuff. But one
Speaker 1: thing that hasn't changed really is the way that we
Speaker 1: move money. And you know, I think that there's there
Speaker 1: has been hesitancy in the past. I think part of
Speaker 1: that was really just due to lack of understanding. And
Speaker 1: one thing that's been really exciting for me is that
Speaker 1: the trad y players are extremely curious about what's going
Speaker 1: on here now. It's not like they're attempting to throw
Speaker 1: a roadblocks or hurdles. I think they really just want
Speaker 1: to be on the forefront of institutional adoption on their side.
Speaker 1: And that's another thing just to point out too, Like
Speaker 1: we can get stable coin and market structural legislation through
Speaker 1: and that's fantastic. These are really, really truly meaningful pieces
Speaker 1: of legislation, but we also have to mind the gap
Speaker 1: between you know, digital asset firms and institutional banking firms
Speaker 1: so that they're actually integrating these services and technologies in
Speaker 1: a way that benefits the everyday American and I think
Speaker 1: that'll be the next step that we take as soon
Speaker 1: as we get through this, you know, interagency rulemaking process
Speaker 1: and clearing the decks of basically eradicating anything to undergo
Speaker 1: the Operation Choke point two point zero and all of
Speaker 1: that good stuff. Then it'll be it'll be about building
Speaker 1: the bridge right and helping you know, even some of
Speaker 1: the traditional players understand ways that they can plug in
Speaker 1: these technologies to make the lives of their consumers easier.
Speaker 2: It's funny because I got into crypto and the blockchain
Speaker 2: industry in twenty sixteen, and I remember Jamie Diamond. He's
Speaker 2: been the final boss almost for bitcoin, right, but even
Speaker 2: he he has capitulated. JP Morgan is using blockchain tech.
Speaker 2: Now you have all of Wall Street, like you mentioned Tradfi,
Speaker 2: they're now building with the technology. I think Larry Fink
Speaker 2: just yesterday put out his annual letter to investors talking
Speaker 2: about we need to put stocks and bonds on the
Speaker 2: blockchain and democratize investing. So it seems they've given up
Speaker 2: their initial knee jerk reaction of it sucks, this is scam.
Speaker 2: Oh wait, this is the future we need to build.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think that's right. I think that they've
Speaker 1: they've recognized how powerful these tools are. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: with boxing technology, just being able to understand like asset
Speaker 1: origination is huge and then also being able to trace
Speaker 1: that asset as it moves across chain is phenomenally helpful
Speaker 1: for a lot of people. And this goes beyond just
Speaker 1: the way that tokens move. I mean, we start talking
Speaker 1: about tokenization of securities and you know, being able to
Speaker 1: put things on chain to permit that transparency. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is a huge step in terms of just you know,
Speaker 1: power for the consumer and people to interact with with
Speaker 1: finance on a day to day basis, which is basically
Speaker 1: everybody in some capacity. And I think that the traditional
Speaker 1: players understand that, you know, now is the time for
Speaker 1: us to move forward on the technological side and start
Speaker 1: accepting some of these innovations that clearly well we'll end
Speaker 1: up ruling the day regardless of whether it's here or
Speaker 1: somewhere else. And that's why we're so keen on, you know,
Speaker 1: creating a regulatory environment that allows the United States to
Speaker 1: be not only just the crypto capital of the world,
Speaker 1: but the innovation capital of the world. As it pertains
Speaker 1: to digital financial technologies as well.
Speaker 2: Now you mentioned whether it happens here or somewhere else.
Speaker 2: With President Trump's shift in tone towards the crypto industry,
Speaker 2: we're seeing some companies saying, hey, we're coming back. We're
Speaker 2: coming back to the United States. We left because we
Speaker 2: were scared. You know, in the past administration talk to
Speaker 2: us about that. Are you guys tracking that, like how
Speaker 2: much capital's coming back in, how how many businesses are
Speaker 2: coming back in, and things like that.
Speaker 1: You know, I think we have blinders on right now
Speaker 1: because we understand what our mission is and we just
Speaker 1: want to make sure that we actually deliver on the
Speaker 1: president's promise, which is to make this you know, the
Speaker 1: most crypto friendly country in the world. And you know,
Speaker 1: my message to the folks that have gone off shore
Speaker 1: is welcome home. I mean this that we're going to
Speaker 1: deliver on the president's promises that he made in the campaign, trill.
Speaker 1: And I think that we've illustrated just in the first
Speaker 1: two months. You know, what we've been able to accomplish
Speaker 1: is pretty drastic. But we's still a lot of work
Speaker 1: to do with the legislative priorities. You know, I'll talk
Speaker 1: about the first Digital Assets Executive Order just briefly because
Speaker 1: it outlined, you know, some pretty specific landmarks I think
Speaker 1: that people should pay attention to, two of which have passed.
Speaker 1: One of which was the thirty day landmark, which required
Speaker 1: agencies and White House offices a part of that internal
Speaker 1: working group to you know, do a reviewer audit of
Speaker 1: anything they touched related digital asset space, and the sixty
Speaker 1: day landmark compelled the same actors to provide a list
Speaker 1: of recommendations things that they could do inside of their
Speaker 1: agencies or offices to make this a better regulatory environment
Speaker 1: for innovators in the space. You know, our job in
Speaker 1: this office has basically compiled these recommendations and built out
Speaker 1: a comprehensive report for the President about how we actually
Speaker 1: achieve the goals.
Speaker 3: That we've set out to achieve.
Speaker 1: And you know that one hundred and twenty day landmark
Speaker 1: is fast approaching and we're well in our way of
Speaker 1: developing that report. In the meantime, you have you know,
Speaker 1: phenomenal actors at these agencies already, with like Hester at
Speaker 1: the SEC who's just.
Speaker 3: Doing phenomenal work there.
Speaker 1: We have Brian in coming at the CFTC with Secretary
Speaker 1: lout nek at Commerce and Secretary Best and a treasury
Speaker 1: you know, their teams have just been you know, amazing
Speaker 1: to work with. And these people, you know, truly understand
Speaker 1: how important the space is. They want to see innovation
Speaker 1: happen here. So as this working group continues to clear
Speaker 1: the deck and allow, you know, for innovation to occur here,
Speaker 1: I think that the actors that have gone off shore
Speaker 1: will naturally start to come home. What other place would
Speaker 1: you like to do business then, other than the United.
Speaker 2: States, the largest capital markets in the world, that's right.
Speaker 1: I mean, so long as you know what the rules
Speaker 1: are we and we established you know, the clear regulatory authority,
Speaker 1: I think we're going to be just fine there.
Speaker 2: Oh for sure, talk to us about the bigqin reserve
Speaker 2: and a digital asset stock pop the logistics behind setting
Speaker 2: this up. I know there's still some things to sort out.
Speaker 2: I saw yesterday the Big Win Policy Institute suggested big
Speaker 2: bonds bitcoin bonds that where some of that return can
Speaker 2: be used to buy bitcoin. Where where's that at? That
Speaker 2: this whole thing, well.
Speaker 1: I think that let's talk about the Strategic Bitcoinerserve Executive
Speaker 1: Order because I think this outlines, you know, pretty much
Speaker 1: what our thinking was here. And you know, first and foremost,
Speaker 1: we view bitcoin as being unique. You know, it's a
Speaker 1: commodity out of security. It has the immaculate conception, as
Speaker 1: David likes to say, meaning that there is no issuer
Speaker 1: and that's intrinsic stwort value.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So we look at these things and say, Okay, we
Speaker 1: want to recognize it for what it is, which is
Speaker 1: being different, but we also want to recognize what's happening
Speaker 1: and a lot of these other ecosystems in this space
Speaker 1: because it's also fantastic. And so we had the strategic bitcoiners,
Speaker 1: or we have the digital assets national stockpile, you know,
Speaker 1: giving credence to everything else going on, but also making
Speaker 1: sure that we separate bitcoin because it is very different.
Speaker 1: We view bitcoin as digital gold, and I've been you know,
Speaker 1: very clear about that. And so the question I get asked,
Speaker 1: you know, by a lot of journalists is well, how
Speaker 1: much bitcoin do you want? I'm like, well, that's like
Speaker 1: asking us how much gold do we want? We want
Speaker 1: as much as we can get as a country, so
Speaker 1: long as we acquire it and budget neutral ways that
Speaker 1: don't cost a tax payer a dime. But one thing
Speaker 1: I'd like to point out too about this administration is
Speaker 1: that I think it's it's really just welcoming to and
Speaker 1: and and you know, exciting that we have a present
Speaker 1: that's finally you know, working to accumulate assets for the
Speaker 1: American people rather than take assets away from them. But
Speaker 1: it also, you know, with the SPR recognizes the value
Speaker 1: of what bitcoin is and how it can be harnessed
Speaker 1: for the American people. I mean, look, there's a finite
Speaker 1: number of bitcoin. We all know that, and I think
Speaker 1: that there will end up being a race, uh in
Speaker 1: order to accumulate as much as you can get between
Speaker 1: other countries as well. I mean, look, people recognize us,
Speaker 1: and people are smart in other places around the world.
Speaker 1: But we feel like with the internal working Group and
Speaker 1: the folks, you know, the present likes to say, we
Speaker 1: have a lot of high IQ people in the room.
Speaker 1: I think we're going to find the best ways to
Speaker 1: accumulate as much as we can get, uh in those
Speaker 1: budget neutral you know, ways that don't cost a tax
Speaker 1: payer a dime. You know, there's a lot of ideas
Speaker 1: out there. Lemmas has her own in the Bitcoin Act
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty five, which is revaluing the gold certificates
Speaker 1: and realizing.
Speaker 3: You know, basically to gain some of those to purchase
Speaker 3: more bitcoin.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, we're going to
Speaker 1: sort through all of these ideas and make sure that
Speaker 1: we enact the best ones, and we're in the process
Speaker 1: of doing that, but we'll probably have a lot more
Speaker 1: to say about that in short order.
Speaker 2: Dumb question for you. If you're able to find a way,
Speaker 2: like you said, the revenue neutral where you don't use
Speaker 2: taxpayer dollars, do you need Congress or can the president
Speaker 2: sign an executive order?
Speaker 1: So these are things that we can do through anuragency activity.
Speaker 1: So if you look at the Strategic Bitcoinners IRVE, it
Speaker 1: basically tasks Secretary Latinik and Secretary Vestent and their team
Speaker 1: is figuring out, you know, some ideas and ways in
Speaker 1: which we could do this. But we'll have that conversation
Speaker 1: more broadly with the rest of the Working group members
Speaker 1: as well. That being said, you know, we'd love to
Speaker 1: see the Strategic Bitcoinners IRVE and shrined into law as well,
Speaker 1: which you know, that's why we're thankful for sendor Lemmas
Speaker 1: everything she's doing there. We're thankful for what's happening in
Speaker 1: the House side as well. I know that there's there's
Speaker 1: two separate pieces of legislation. Both chambers are now attempting
Speaker 1: to do the same thing. And you know, look, it's
Speaker 1: very it's the legislative process really to the SBRs and
Speaker 1: it's infancy. So we'll see, you know, at the end
Speaker 1: of the day what these bills look like. But you know,
Speaker 1: we're just very happy to see the movement going on
Speaker 1: up on Capitol Hill because you know, it shows that
Speaker 1: they're willing.
Speaker 3: To take the leadership roles.
Speaker 1: It relates to digital assets and recognize, you know, how
Speaker 1: important all of this stuff is, and that's that's a
Speaker 1: really good place to be.
Speaker 2: Question on the Digital Asset Stockpile. I love, this is
Speaker 2: just an idea I have what it makes sense to
Speaker 2: acts these different players. Maybe in the top ten or
Speaker 2: top twenty as far as market cap your foundation donates
Speaker 2: some coins to the Digital Asset Foundation or stockpile. Would
Speaker 2: donations be an avenue you can?
Speaker 1: I mean maybe I think that you know, everything will
Speaker 1: be on the table as we start to flesh out
Speaker 1: these ideas amongst the working group members, and I think
Speaker 1: that we'll hear a lot of you know, phenomenal ideas
Speaker 1: about how we could achieve these things. You know, with
Speaker 1: the digital assets National Stockpile, it's treated a little bit
Speaker 1: differently because it allows the Secretary of Treasury to basically
Speaker 1: invest into or maneuver with these assets. That is different
Speaker 1: than the reserve on the bitcoin side. So you know,
Speaker 1: I'm sure Secretary best has certainly has a reputation for
Speaker 1: being very good in that space on Wall Street. I'm
Speaker 1: sure he'll apply those same principles as the Treasury Secretary
Speaker 1: as it relates to the stockpile as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I personally, I think it would make sense for
Speaker 2: some of these projects to donate some coins. They don't
Speaker 2: have to donate ten million, but you know, maybe hey
Speaker 2: start out with five hundred thousand coins depending on the
Speaker 2: market cap and tokenomics and all that, but that would
Speaker 2: be a good way support the United States.
Speaker 3: And yeah, certainly interesting idea.
Speaker 2: With regards to the bigcoin reserve from a macro perspective,
Speaker 2: And I'm a big student of history, Are we at
Speaker 2: the next Bretton Woods like kind of what happened after
Speaker 2: World War Two with gold? Where bitcoin specifically is being
Speaker 2: inserted as a reserve, and it could change the way money,
Speaker 2: he's backed Viac, Turncy's back.
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe we'll see where it goes. I think
Speaker 1: that we're certainly at a pivotal point in history in
Speaker 1: which technology is changing the way that people think about
Speaker 1: asset classes. And you know, I think one thing that's
Speaker 1: different about bitcoin than gold is that, you know, we
Speaker 1: continually seem to find more gold, even we just do.
Speaker 2: They've been talking about mining goal of asteroids, correct.
Speaker 3: I mean, we know how much bitcoin exists.
Speaker 1: It's just a question of how quickly it's going to
Speaker 1: be mined, right, And you know, at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, I think that we need to be just
Speaker 1: cognizant of the fact that there is that limited supply
Speaker 1: that's out there, the finite supply, and as a country,
Speaker 1: we need to also understand that there is just a
Speaker 1: strategic long term interest and accumulating as much as we
Speaker 1: can and doing it quickly before it becomes more expensive.
Speaker 1: Because that's I think that that's naturally on the horizon,
Speaker 1: just given the principles that undergird it.
Speaker 2: One, the mining difficulty is going to increase around bitcoin,
Speaker 2: and to your point, there's going to be a race
Speaker 2: to get this asset. Do you foresee the government possibly mining.
Speaker 2: It's for a big one itself that the federal government
Speaker 2: owns a mining company or whatever.
Speaker 3: Maybe.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, if it can fall under the framework
Speaker 1: of budget neutral right then I think that all possibilities
Speaker 1: are on the table, and we'll certainly hear from the
Speaker 1: experts in the space is about ways in which we
Speaker 1: could make something like that work. Not to say that
Speaker 1: we're pursuing that actively. I want to give the working
Speaker 1: group time to actually consider the best avenues for success
Speaker 1: as it relates to accumulation. And you know, we'll have
Speaker 1: those discussions openly and honestly amongst ourselves inside of that group.
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure, question for you as far as government's
Speaker 2: usage of blockchain, Elon for example, with his Doze initiative,
Speaker 2: has been talking about putting government spending on the blockchain,
Speaker 2: and we know what blockchain, more transparency, more real time
Speaker 2: data and all these things. Are there talks amongst folks
Speaker 2: to integrate blockchain, whether it be voting or government spending
Speaker 2: or in different ways.
Speaker 1: Certainly, I think blockchain technology can just as it can
Speaker 1: revolutionize what's happening in the private sector, it can revolutionize
Speaker 1: what's happening in the public sector. As well in terms
Speaker 1: of how we we trace you know, American taxpayer hours
Speaker 1: and where they're actually going inside of government. You know,
Speaker 1: I can think of many use cases I'm sure that
Speaker 1: much many folks in your audience could as well, in
Speaker 1: which we could actually lift the veil on what's happening
Speaker 1: with tax payer money, right. And I don't think that
Speaker 1: that's you know, pie in the sky. I think it's
Speaker 1: something that can be implemented, you know, pretty quickly.
Speaker 3: But you know, I know that.
Speaker 1: Elon is an absolutely brilliant human being, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: that he's thinking about ways in which you can integrate
Speaker 1: this technology like many others are as well in the
Speaker 1: private space. But at the end of the day, I
Speaker 1: think that it can happen in relatively short order. We'll
Speaker 1: just have to see what comes of it.
Speaker 2: Well, I can't wait for that day. I have a
Speaker 2: seven year old, so I'm hoping in when she's an adult,
Speaker 2: she lives in the world driven by blockchain and more transparency,
Speaker 2: more efficiency, cheaper cost to move money and all these things,
Speaker 2: but she knows where her tax dollars are going.
Speaker 1: Well, how cool to be in terms of asset origination
Speaker 1: if you could actually see where your tax dollurs went,
Speaker 1: like your own personal tax dours.
Speaker 3: Right, so you see that, you.
Speaker 1: Submit your payment or whatever to the irs, you pay
Speaker 1: your taxes, and now all of a sudden you get
Speaker 1: to track on train or on chain exactly where that
Speaker 1: stuff goes.
Speaker 3: I mean that would be pretty fascinating. Indold.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the world she's gonna live in, it's going
Speaker 2: to be really different with robotics. And maybe she'll have
Speaker 2: one of Elon's Tesla bots in the house. I should
Speaker 2: be using stable coins to buy her coffee and things
Speaker 2: like that. It's gonna be an interesting world, all right.
Speaker 2: I got some wrap up questions here for you. First,
Speaker 2: if you could create your own metaverse, what would the
Speaker 2: theme be, Oh man, what would you put your oculus
Speaker 2: on ankle to?
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I guess it'd have to be
Speaker 1: sports oriented, right, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Be like an NFL playing against Tom Brady or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I guess, you know, simulating the experiences
Speaker 1: and the thrills that you can have, you know, only
Speaker 1: an environment where there's one hundred and ten thousand people
Speaker 1: screaming around you. I think that would be pretty cool,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that would heighten your everyday experience
Speaker 1: is if you have people rooting you on to type
Speaker 1: away your emails.
Speaker 3: I think that'd be pretty fun.
Speaker 2: For sure. Rapid fire questions, favorite food.
Speaker 3: Enough to go with steak fil a specifically nice?
Speaker 2: Favorite musician or band?
Speaker 3: Oh man, these are the toughest questions of the day.
Speaker 3: You know what I'll say. I'll say the Dave Matthews band.
Speaker 3: You need to throw back there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of its songs I first learned was crash
Speaker 2: is an Impressive girl, So Dave. Thanks Dave Matthews fan.
Speaker 3: Favorite movie, Let's Go Die Hard, and it is a
Speaker 3: Christmas move.
Speaker 2: Favorite book.
Speaker 3: I mean, I can't not say Art of the Deal.
Speaker 1: It's a phenomenal book written by you know, my boss,
Speaker 1: and I think at the end of the day, everyone
Speaker 1: should read it. I think you're seeing a lot of
Speaker 1: that the principles he describes in that book unfold in
Speaker 1: front of our eyes in real time.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And when you're not doing your duties at the
Speaker 2: White House or whatever may be, what are you doing
Speaker 2: for fun?
Speaker 3: I love to play golf.
Speaker 1: I'm not good at golf, but I love to play.
Speaker 1: And you know, I haven't had much time to play
Speaker 1: since I've taken on this role, but hopefully I'll get
Speaker 1: back out there and enjoy some warm weather here soon.
Speaker 2: Awesome BO pleasure. Thank you, thank you for taking the
Speaker 2: time