Speaker 1: What is up fellas Echo's I am dan fa Valley
coming back at you with more Jensen of the NBA Podcast,
Fame of YadA Sports, Fame of Forbes, Fame and of
of course only fans celebrity. We are here to talk
about Day two of NBA Free Agency, fewer than twenty
four hours after Grant and I spent about two and
a half hours going through every single team on Day one,
so I employ you ought to go check up that episode.
We're here to just talk about some of the biggest
Day two revelations, what we think of them, maybe the
impact on moves to come first and foremost, though more,
how are you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm doing well. I would like to apologize to the
viewers that have out already turned on off the YouTube
stream because I'm sitting here in a tank top. But
it is incredibly warm here in Denmark right now, so
I'm just not taking any chances I'd be getting a
heat stroke if I wore a hoodie or something like that.
So you got to accept.
Speaker 1: This, I think. But the apology is rooted in the
fact that you are wearing a top at all.
Speaker 2: That's true that from your perspective, absolutely, yes, yes, I
know you have dreams. Maybe one Look, it's supposed to
get really really hot within the next couple of weeks,
and by then I'm actually Barcelona when it gets even hotter,
and I'm gonna do some podcasts, presumably with you down there.
So if I'm in my hotel room and it's like
forty degrees Celsius, you might you might actually have to
acknowledge the fact that you're gonna be live streaming with
the top.
Speaker 1: It's more, I don't know if I'll be able to
focus at that point, but I guess.
Speaker 2: I guess we will find that all the wrong reasons. Yes, uh, we.
Speaker 1: Are live, impromptu, live. This one was not a really
scheduled one. So if you're there and you want to
ask questions, we will get to them. Pop in the comments,
like subscribe that whole nine. Let's root for something to
happen while we're recording. We went two and a half
hours after day one more nothing happens. But we did
it late enough. It was like eleven pm Eastern time.
But I don't want us to do this and then
something huge to happen, Like I want something huge shud
happen right now. That's the time for it.
Speaker 2: Aiden right now would be fun.
Speaker 1: I said huge, Not the Pacers like trying to reinvent
the wheel from like what twenty twenty two is when.
Speaker 2: They gave you DeAndre Aiden is a huge human being.
Speaker 1: That's fair. That is fair. Look will be like adjacent
to DeAndre aydon. Let's begin with the Bucks. So I
was on my way to a doctor's appointment with my
wife when the news came through that the Bucks were
getting Turner and then waving and stretching Damian Lillard. You
can see if you're watching on the screen all their
transactions from the off season so far up there. Lillard
has one hundred and twelve point six million left on
his contract. That means he's gonna be twenty two and
a half million dollars worth of dead money on the
Bucks' books through twenty twenty nine twenty thirty, which is
that's a long time. The Bucks also to make sure
they had the room to sign Miles Turner traded Pat
Connaton and two seconds too Charlotte for Vasili Mitchitch, who
I think is gonna end up saving them more money
via buyout. Those seconds are in twenty thirty one and
thirty two then Miles Turner's deal is for four years,
one hundred and seven million dollars with a player option
on that final season. Two other pieces of business for
the Bucks though, They did sign Jerrick W Simms to
a two year deal player option on the second year,
and then they also signed Gary Harris for two years
at the Vets minimum, I believe. And so we went
through all their other transactions last night we talked about them.
We have to focus on the Turner, the Gyiannis, the
dame of it all more. Just what was your initial
reaction when this all went down.
Speaker 2: I think the same reaction as everyone else. I was
a bit in shock because the timing of it all. First,
the Miles Turner contract was announced, and I immediately went like,
how like this is something here or south like this reeks,
there's no way they had room to just sign him
out right there. Something wasn't you know, capping for me whatsoever.
And then when the news dropped that it was a
Damian Lillard, who wa even stretch like I got admit
I was. I was laughing my ass off because I
thought that was such a preposterous outline for it. And
now I will say this after you know, after having
soaked on it a little bit, I will say as much,
I get it, Like I get what they're trying to
do here, I understand what they're trying to achieve because
Dame at these we have to acknowledge he was probably
never going to be the same guy, probably a full
misseason and then the season where he had what was
that of fifty was it a fifty eight million dollar
player option? Basically around there basically, and you know, he'd
probably be still in the process of getting back to
norm that stage, and we still don't even know what
that norm is. So the Bucks kind of looked at
that and went can we do better? And yeah, you could.
You could do better. You could go get Miles Turner instead.
And this is like basically the last bullet they have
in giving up access, giving up like flexibility to a
piece Giannis ant, Do I trust that this is enough
a year from now? No? I don't trust that. Do
I trust that it's enough for right now? Probably? But
in twelve months I'm probably going to be a little
bit worried.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's all right. And I saw a
lot of the reaction was I mean, like the Damian
Loward Wavern stretch. If you're planning on being a competitive
team for the foreseeable future, you can't just have twenty
two and a half million dollars or dead money on
your books. I think this sort of was I don't
want to say it's a version of self awareness, but
it kind of the Bucks understand that, like they might
have two years for you know, a yan like to
win with Jannis, and they're just gonna have to make
up most of it and then deal with the fallout thereafter.
Oh look, more, we do have audio issues, Sean in
the chat? Is the audio low for anybody else? Let
us know who is low and mort and I will
adjust accordingly. What's interesting, Like it just you look at
it and it just seems like bad process having that
much dead money on the books. But like if you're
trying to keep y honest and you have no reason
to move Jannis unless he has asked for out, And
so I keep coming back to the question of what
else were they supposed to do this season? Like what
did you want? Like what did you want them to do?
If you wanted them to trade Jannis? That's fine, Like, Okay,
that's like a fair that's a fair like point to make,
but like proactively moving him when you don't control your
own draft picks moving forward. We've talked about that at length.
It rings a little hollow. I just like, was this
the move to do something like this for and it
also because Miles he struggled in the playoffs. Kaitlin Cooper
already wrote about it, like, particularly in those minutes without
Tyre's Halbert and on the court that's been like that
had that that wasn't great for him. And now you're
going to a situation Milwaukee where okay, you have Giannis,
but like you don't have an A plus playmaker on
this team that's gonna necessarily bring out the best in him.
You lost Brook Lopez, who was played off the floor
in the postseason, but again, Miles Turner was barely playable
like in certain stretches. So I look in mel in
the chat, I would agree that this proves that Giannis
doesn't want to leave. I'm I'm so interested to see,
like what else comes from this. I think the Bucks
like they have a good team. I don't know if
you can sit here and say they're gonna be a
lot better, even like in a playoff context than they
would have been this season that Dame been healthy. And
so what I'm I guess I'm not even worried. I'm
just wondering, is like, what's next? Is it if you're
the Bucks more, does this make it more likely that
you're putting your twenty thirty one or twenty thirty two
pick on the table now plus a swap? Or is
it we're still trying to bide times that we have
access to three first round picks next summer, because the
one that you would draft with you'll get the less
favorable I think of their own in New Orleans. And
then you can trade two future picks in thirty one
and thirty three plus that twenty thirty two swap. What
do you think the plan there is?
Speaker 2: I mean, look, the more picks you have at your
disposal the better, because then you can kind of use
Kyle Kusmas then expiring contracts as some type of salary filler.
Of course, now you also have to navigate the debt
money of twenty two and a half million, which is
what thirteen point six percent of the salary cap. That
is not an insective, insignificant number. So you'll have to
figure out what where do we go from here is
the Kyle Kuzma plus Bobby Portis trade plus the picks.
I would appreciate if they are going all in. If
that's their approach, and so far over the course of
Giannis's career there we've seen that the Bucks will basically
turning over every rocket, just going okay, sure, whatever acid
we have left, like, let's throw in the peanut butter
jelly sandwich in the kitchen as well, let's throw everything
we have into virtually every single trade just to get
marginally better. So I do appreciate that level of foresight. Forum.
If they can go in to next summer with those
picks in hand, movable contracts, yeah, I don't see why
they wouldn't, because it does feel like they've sort of
appeased him for one year and then next year something's
gotta get It's next year. I'm actually more worried about it.
I do think the Bocks bought themselves a year, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think there If he has out now,
that'd be wild that they did this without consulting him.
I think you could also make the case that, well,
then why would you do this with just the guarantee
of a year it's well, if you're trading Yannis next summer,
like what are you trying to do the next four
years rebuild? So like, yeah, that' twenty two and a
half million dollars in dead money is still an ideal,
but it's not going like you're not waste necessarily wasting
this huge opportunity on you're propping up a contender. Uh,
It's it's just a very it's a fragile existence though,
right because you're kind of just living year to year
now with Yannis and that it's really like it's unsettling.
But again, I don't know, I don't know what their
other options were, and I'm like they will have I like,
you also lose, by the way, like Lillard is that
massive expiring contract next year. Now you still have the
Kuzma money, the Turner money, the Portus money, but Kuzma's
the only one of those guys that will be expiring.
So there's the impact your trade offers at all. I
think what's also risky here too is that I guess
if you know Yiannis, you don't like you know Yannis
is eventually not gonna be there, if that's your belief,
or you're just worried about what the Bucks look like
five seven years down the line, Like, are they ever
gonna have the best offer for someone when you put
those two let's say twenty thirty one and twenty thirty three,
let's say they wait, are you ever gonna have the
best offer for anybody? I don't like that. That's what's
also very tricky about this. So I look, Miles Turner
makes sense stretch five next to Gianness, who can protect
the rim move on defense and he has like he
has different layers to his offense now too, Yeah, I
think does? I think the contract is fair, and I
get what the Bucks are doing, but this doesn't make
me like I kind of already assumed johannest was going
to be back next year, and so I guess that's
why my perception of this is all sort of warped.
I think their business, like everything else, has just been fine,
like the Gary Trent and Bobby Portis's junior contract is fine,
and then the Trent Slash tryan print stuff of oh,
we'll have your early bird rights next year, which is
like the way they got them back on these deals.
I get it. I don't feel necessarily good about it,
but Look, I know I'm parating myself at this point.
I just don't know what else they could have done.
Speaker 2: I'm actually surprised that you say with such certainty that
you think he would have been back regardless. I feel
as though he's basically told them, look, we have to
take steps, like I have to see something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like there was the report that he wanted to
monitor what they were doing in the draft and free agency,
but then he tweets or Zeke's what do they call?
I have no idea, but he has no idea what's
going on. Essentially, I'm like, maybe he didn't see them
waving and stretching Lillard, But if you wanted Myles Turner,
you wanted them to do something, did you not think
that there was going to be collateral damage as part
of it? And he kind of has a track record
of doing that too. Where it's like everyone who leave
and I think he's a fantastic teammate, don't get me wrong,
like everyone who leaves is his brother, but they leave
after he essentially demands that the Bucks need to do
something big, which it's it's just funny. I don't fault
him for I mean, Lebron's done way worse than that.
So I'm just I just find that to be like
sort of a funny trend. And for anyone who's still
if there's still audio issues, I did bump mine up
more to one seventy five. Okay, So if this ends
up being too loud for people, I'm gonna be very
mad at the three people and the Chattow claim were
too low. It's only with you the sound issues and materializing.
I don't know, I blame you by extension.
Speaker 2: It's fine. I have I have equipment that's too good
and messes up. Yes, it's fine.
Speaker 1: It's like that friends quote where it's the more muscles
you have, the more they spas him out of control.
When you think that's really what it is, this is
sort of something that's so I guess when you said that,
you're I'm uneasy about this in general, you're not more
easy about next summer. Did we kind of settle on
what makes the most sense for them to do when
it comes, because they're all in right now. I think
you could argue, but it almost is like if I'm
the Bucks, like, I almost don't want to make the
all like because now I want to buy myself another
year next summer, where it's hey, this is what we
did to keep you honest interested now, and it's oh,
can we then go ahead and look, we just traded
these first round picks to get some and so so
you're buying yourself two years almost. That might be the
way they're looking at this, and I think that's that's
just the smart play there, or relative to their situation,
is probably the smart play. I found this fascinating. I
did not see this coming, but it's just I think
if you're a team that wanted you, Honis, and especially
one that like maybe was a little asset limited and
you needed some more assets to open up, like if
you're the Heat, if you're the Knicks, if you're the
Spurs and just want more information on what's in place,
I would argue that this is actually a good develop
for those teams as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really good catch because now you can
go in the Spur specifically, because I still think that's
the team right, Like they have so many young guys,
another year of them, like if Steph Castle takes another leap,
like if he becomes a dependable shooter, for example, his
trade value just like skyrockets and that would give more
data to the Bucks, like, oh, can he be our
fundamental piece? What about Dylan Harper if he's a Rookie
of the Year candidate, Maybe there's something there that's a
really good point. There are definitely going to be teams
that are are going to be monitoring this very intensively
over the next twelve months. For sure. The thing to
me is just it all comes back to Gianni's because
it does feel like if the entire organization's key focus
is make Gianni's happy, make him stay, to the point
where they're basically just saying we want him back more
than we actually want to build a contenter, you know
what I mean. So there's a part of this a
little afraid that if you keep having this very singular
mindset of Janis Yiannis, the satisfaction of Giannis, you're going
to perhaps loose out on some interesting avenues and and
maybe actually try to do what he wants you to do,
which is build a contender. But now's done is done,
Like the they're gonna have alutered on the books for
the next five years of dead money that can't really
can't really turn back the clock down. Stuff.
Speaker 1: They're just gonna come a point and this was I
think this was part of their calculus, is that there
will just be a time where that money's on the
books and Gianness is not. And at that point of
Giannis is not on the books, that money that it
is on the books really just doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Disappointed not man Suns fan says, is Bradley Beal the
next wave and stretch candidate. It's a possible. I mean,
Phoenix is probably jealous because they legally can't just wave
and stretch Bradley Beale right now because you can only
have I think it's fifteen percent of the salary cap
in dead money on your books and be because of
specifically this yere Little and EJ. Liddell who they waved
and stretched last year. If you wave and stretch Bradley
Beald his current number, it's over that fifteen percent. So
you need Bradley be able to give up money, which
I guess he depending on what he has. Like DeAndre
Eton gave back ten million to Portland, It's like I
think you need Bradley be able to give back fourteen
million for the Sons to be able to legally do it.
So if you're him, you'd have to say, for me
to break even over the next two years, I need
a two year, fourteen million dollar deal. I would assume
that's out there for him, But I also think that
when you're in the Sun's situation, where you have even
fewer assets than Milwaukee, that you probably don't want that
dead money on your books.
Speaker 2: I had not seen the aid. In fact of him
giving up ten that surprises me.
Speaker 1: It makes me think, like, well, I mean, the teams
that have been most interested in it seems or the
Lakers have been mentioned. They have the non tax mL
after losing dorian Phine Smith. Now the Pacers without Miles
Turner could be so it feels like he could just
get ten million bucks from one of those teams specifically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, I wouldn't hate that.
Speaker 1: This the Bucks team. What do you think they're still
missing when you kind of look at the lay of
their depth chart? Now, is it it feels like a
like a guard, a general, a game manager type.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, they have a lot of size, which is great,
but like who is their point guard? Who is their
decision maker? If you're if you're going to put that
responsibility on Jihannis over the course of a full regular season.
This as going to be toast when they reach the playoffs,
if they even do so. I mean, look, they something's
got to give here, there's something still in play. There
are not done. Was it? Did they have to decline
the qualifying offer for Ryan Rollins?
Speaker 1: I think that's going to depend on what happens was
with me sich or are they able to cut more
money somehow because they're working within very thin margins at
the moment, and that would be if you lose Ryan Rollins.
I know that he's not gonna be an All NBA
player next season, but that's a pretty big deal. If
you can't bring him back.
Speaker 2: It's enormous deal, Absolutely enormous deal, to the point where
I would just wonder what their plan is, like, hey,
carry Trent want trying to be a playmaker, Like no,
it's this is why I'm promising of what the Bucks did.
Although I do appreciate the balls it took here to
pull this off, Like I have to respect how dedicated
there are in this mission, but it felt desperate. It
still feels desperate. There's a point here where you're looking
at that roster, you're looking at the future commitment and
debt money, and it's gonna be so hard when they
have to like round out a roster, you know what
I mean, because they can't you have twenty two and
a half billion that so many other teams will use
like round yed roster, Like, oh, we're up against the
first a print whatever, Like we have this little level
of space. You don't have that space. That space is
occupied and it's not on the floor. Yeah. I don't
know what to think here. I don't know what what
point guard to go after? I who's available? Like I
would have said, go get tyas Jones, he's in Orlando, right,
who's up? Who's that there?
Speaker 1: Russh Malcolm Brogden's still sitting out there right, He hasn't signed.
Speaker 2: That's interesting, assuming he can stay healthy, of course, but
that's not that's not uninteresting. He knows seannas, he knows
like the organization. Yeah, so can can we rely on
him to play more than forty games?
Speaker 1: Though?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: I mean, what is the what's the alternative right now?
Is having Malcolm Brogden for forty games is better than
what you're currently left with as your backcourt playmaking at
the moment, right?
Speaker 2: So yeah, yep, Like baking beggers can't be chooser?
Speaker 1: Honestly, should we rule out the possibility of a trade?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: I guess it's because like Kuzma's salary has to be
like the primary I mean you have Mesach. I suppose
do you have Kuzma and message At They combined to
make thirty million, so you could do something with that? Uh, Like,
is there any if you're putting the picks on the table,
we have to we're contractually obligated to mention Kobe White.
Like if you're Chicago, is that swapping a pick enough
to give up Kobe White? And then you have to
give up other stuff too?
Speaker 2: But yeah, you'll have to give up other other stuff. Again,
is the bulls you're asking? They'll be like draft, we
can receive draft picks, that's legal.
Speaker 1: No, we're not. We can't do that.
Speaker 2: What you're talking about, like like if Kyle Kuzak.
Speaker 1: Like if there was a is like Kobe White and
iow to soon move for Kyle Kuzma for that pick
and swap? Is that is Chicago giving up too much
part of that deal?
Speaker 2: Okay, So if you look at it objectively and we
don't bake in Chicago's absolute horrid negotiation skills. That would
I would I would want significant well not, I can't
even say significantly more because both those guys are expiring.
Their value have been higher than they are right now.
But then again, you're taking on the extra year of Kusma.
Now I'd want two picks for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're what is one enough to get
you Kobe White? Like as a pick and a swap?
It was just Kobe White, and then you could let
them like, maybe the bulls want to get off of
Isaaca Coro get you Isaaca Coro and Kobe White.
Speaker 2: I sure.
Speaker 1: Can you aggregate that this soon, but not at this moment,
but they could wait and do it, by the way,
Josh Giddy, Still we have not heard about that deal, right,
that's a little weird. We're not talking about that though
anything else on that with like us, is there any
I'm trying to think like other targets that would maybe
be potentially gettable, Josh, No sign trade for Josh Getty
would be the funniest thing ever.
Speaker 2: Again, I mentioned him mostly as a joke, but perhaps
we're at that point where you have to take it seriously.
Russell Westbrook, oh Man, I guess I mean there's benefit
here because NBA players seem woefully outdated on where other
players are. Like some players will look at Russ and go, yeah,
he's still a superstar. Love that dude. He's like Chop
something NBA player. And perhaps Giannis is one of those
guys who just appreciates even former greatness and like applies
it to current greatness. Although with Russ right now currently
there is none of it. So perhaps that's the cell.
Perhaps the organization goes, well, here's Russell freakin' Westbrook and
Gianni school. Oh, I don't know. Perhaps maybe.
Speaker 1: What about could they get Well, they would need a
smaller salary to do it, like if they were willing
to get younger, like could you get Tyler Kohlick from
the Knicks? Your matching salary though, is like you would
have to use you have Tyler Smith, Andre Jackson Junior,
and I don't know what the Nick like you don't
want to give up a first round swap to get
Tyler Kohlick though, So that would be something.
Speaker 2: To consider idea of going younger, though, don't you think
with this move today they're pushing in the other direction.
Speaker 1: Like you mean, more towards the now right, mm hmm, yeah, veterans,
Do you think that Malik Monk could be gettable for
them after the Shrewder signing? You would need the Kings
to be okay with taking on Kuzma. But you know,
we'll go from the Bulls to the Kings. What's the difference.
Speaker 2: We've talked about him before as a pseudo point guard option,
but I don't love it. He is still, to me,
primarily a two guard.
Speaker 1: Can they, man, they come awfully? Could they get Drew
Holliday back from the Blazers?
Speaker 2: That mean, so what's the deal Derek Kusma?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Does that do? I mean, no, they don't have
enough wiggle room. They can't take back. I don't think
they have enough wiggle room under the I need to
look at their cap sheet. But that's they could probably
get there. But then you're hollowing out your rotation right
even more?
Speaker 2: That'd be fun. Oh my god, if that happened. I mean,
it's not a bad alternative if they can make it happen.
Speaker 1: Though, I mean they could wait, don't they still have
the mid level here? So yeah, they could do a
deal like that? Does it just throwing names out in? Really? Man? Now,
that'd be hysterical, like just reunite with Drew. But I think,
I mean Portland actually wants him. They give up Affrety
Simons to get him. So it's are you giving up
one of those picks of the swaps to get back
to Holliday?
Speaker 2: Probably not, Like if that happened, I would just question
everything I know about basketball that Drew Holliday fetch positive
returns twice in a summer.
Speaker 1: Do you maybe if he he gets like bought out
or something, do you maybe emphasis on this word bet
On Tarry Rosier.
Speaker 2: I saw what you did there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's also Cole Anthony is leaving.
Speaker 2: He can't get any worse, right, Like the way he
played in Miami that was just atrocious. But like I
do think there's a better version of him in there.
Maybe Miami just wasn't the place for him. Perhaps you'll
walk he has a better destination for him. He can
play off of a guy like Giannis, who just takes
up that much more attention. I don't hate it. It'll
also just be like a one year thing. Who was
the name you were about to mention?
Speaker 1: I was gonna say Cole Rosier is too much of
a gamble. I like that. Uh, I was gonna say, uh,
he's leaving. He's not found up Cole Anthony though he's
getting out of Memphis, which those terms are still it
sounds like he's being bought out. But I don't know
how much money he gave back yet, Like I've been
looking and I haven't seen number on that.
Speaker 2: So, but is the type of dude I would like there.
Though he's young, he's explosive. You know, he's got an
all round game, athletic like he really he's He's one
of those guys who occasionally just will get a firecracker
in his ass and just run. And I think occasionally
you do need more of that alongside Giannis. I think
this Bocks team for years has trended a little too old,
a little too slow, a little too half court. Having
a guy who just grabs a board, turns on the
jets and goes down to the floor. I would lie.
I would love that. Actually I wouldn't just like that.
I would love that they.
Speaker 1: Could also do They could probably trade for him just
using me sich like that's the eight million dollar salary
for Cole Anthony's at thirteen point one. I would believe
they would have the flexibility to do something like that,
So I don't know what Memphis might not even want compensation,
will be it the same thing like well, I mean
Charlotte got compensation for that, but it'd be sort of
a similar motivation with the Kings did. And we're gonna
talk at the Kings in a little bit with Yonis
Mallonciunis just like, we need that lower cap number on
the books to fit in Denis shrew Right, Do you
have any other names you want to mention or anything
else on the This Bucks team?
Speaker 2: No, I think we should move on. We've already spent
almost half an hour on this one.
Speaker 1: The update breaking news lyon NaNs Junior just signed with
the Calves. That was per Mark Stein while we were recording.
I like that fit. They use another front core guy,
like another four or five. I don't mind it.
Speaker 2: Nope, it's good.
Speaker 1: That's good signing for them. I really liked I love
that lines of ball trade for the Caves. You were
there and we talked about it. We got to talk
about the Pacers side of things though more their transactions
list is so much shorter. So they picked up Tony
Bradley's two point nine million dollar team option. So that
should have That's when we should have known, right that
Miles Turner was.
Speaker 2: Leaving smoking gun right there.
Speaker 1: Turner leaves four years, one hundred and seven million. He
reported the This is per Jake Fisher and I think
other people. At this point, he reportably wanted to stay
with Indiana, whose offer reportedly wouldn't go above three years
and sixty million. I would like to give a quick
thought on this before throwing it to you. I've seen
a lot of people say Miles Turner wasn't worth what
the Bucks paid him, or what he offered him, or
even what he wanted, or even what the Pacers were
offering him, because of how poorly he played for stretches
in the playoffs, how tough it was for him during
the NBA Finals. I think it's okay to sit here
and say, maybe it was time for the Pacers to
figure out something different at the center position after twenty
years of Miles Turner being in trade rumors. That being said,
I look at this, it was purely a cost cutting maneuver.
They did not do this like this, and it wasn't
even cost cutting. I don't know that they understood that. Oh,
the Bucks were gonna wave and stretch Damian Millward and
emerge as a Miles Turner suitter. But the reason he's
not in Indiana is purely financially driven, and at the
most charitable way, the most charitable way of putting this
is they fucked up the management of an important asset
to their team. You let him leave for nothing, under
no circumstance should that have been on the table. And
you can't tell me that if you felt this way
about Miles Turner, you can't tell me at any point
over the past couple of years that you weren't gonna
be able to get something for him. So I just
I don't understand, like, this team just made the finals.
I know that Tyres Haliburton is gonna be injured and
you're kind of embracing a gap year, but you're also
a team that says it doesn't tank. But I also
understand the reality of well, they were never going to
pay the tax without Tyres Haliburton on the roster. But
I'm starting the way this unfolded really makes me think
that they weren't going to pay the tax even if
they won the championship or Tyers Haliburton never gets injured.
This is just you again. I think the nicest way
of putting it is that they were This was terrible
asset management for a player that they could have gotten
value for in a trade, Like couldn't you have signed
him and figured out how to cut money later at
the trade deadline? Like do you think Miles Turner was
that bad that at four years and one hundred and
seven million dollars and other team's not gonna trade for him? No,
so I don't. This is like I get where Indy's
coming from when thinking about next season specifically, why do
we want to be expensive without Haliburton? But like, how
do you not like figure this out anyway? You bring
him back and then you figure it out later or again,
I would just propose just pay the fucking tax for once.
For the first time since two thousand and five.
Speaker 2: You more or less just echoed the piece that I
wrote over at Yeahoo Sports about all of this, just
to read the headline when he came to Miles Turner,
the Pacers once again took the cheap way out, and
yeah you you outlined everything that I did in that piece.
I couldn't agree with you, bore Pacers fans and Pacers players,
perhaps importantly, should all be extremely discouraged by this development.
This is a team that was one went away from
winning the whole damn thing, and what two weeks later
they turned back into being an un serious franchise. It's
it's it reaches how the quick save of a buck
and also getting the money in from other teams in
terms of luxury tax payments derives it so much. It's
a problem, and it's something that I think eventually I'm
going to try to write about because if the allure
for these teams, oh, always trying to duct the tax is,
oh yeah, we get the tax penalty payments after the
end of the season. If that's the carrot that keeps
them from that, that makes them remain cheap, then we
have to remove that carrot. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I we had talked about this last time. I don't
know what the answer is. We did propose, like you
can only do that for three consecutive years if you
don't make the playoffs or whatever exactly. But the Pacers
would be an exception here because they're not like one
of those teams that are existing at bottom of the barrel.
So maybe you should be capped at ex consecutive years
of being able to even cap But like, if you
want to penalize teams, for me, it's this is the
stuff that's cringey. It's not that the Pacers like figured
it all out sort of beforehand and made it to
the finals anyway while not being one of the you know,
three most expensive teams in the league or whatever. It's
just that this move, whether they like had the chance
to match what the Bucks are offering Turner or not,
it's cringey because this was a player who I mean,
he has value around that He just got twenty five
plus million dollars per year from the Bucks. He had
value around the league. Yeah, so you can't say, like
based off the playoff, like, oh yeah, we should have
just even if you didn't think he belonged on this team,
there's no defense for just letting him walk for nothing.
Like this is just it's outrageous and I am curious, though,
what do you think it in Like, what do you
think it says about the Pacers moving forward in general?
And I mean, like melon the chat like they were
not getting back to the Eastern Conference finals without Halliburton.
That's not really my point. It's okay, but like you
just let who is one of your five most important
players for most of last season leave for nothing like
that's a wasted asset, so that you could And why
did he leave? It was because of money. It was
because this team didn't want to pay the tax. That's
you know, it didn't have anything. So you're gonna tell
me that they made the right decision here. But if
you think that he wasn't value, you would have been
okay if they signed him for twenty million bucks a year,
three for sixty like, if that was on the table.
This just proves that this was purely a tax thing.
It had very little to do with the iffy niss of.
And I'll say if he niffs, because I still think
he was a valuable player of Miles Turner's fit moving forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this is going to have ramifications throughout
the roster. Honestly as well, I think Tyrus Halbert is
asking some quick, some big questions to himself and perhaps
his team not saying or reporting anything here. I'm not
saying he's going to ask out, but this is one
of those things where he can rightfully go to the
organization and ask what's up here? Like we were one
win away from the finals. I know I got injured.
I know I wouldn't be playing the next year. What
I'm a twenty five year old player, I'm an all star.
If you, you know, kept Miles around, I would have
come back presumably you know, fully healthy at some point
and we could go again. This team should have leaned
into it. I wrote a piece when the news came
out a couple of months ago, no months, one month
ian perhaps a couple of months ago, when the Pacers, uh, well,
it was reported that the Pacers were open to going
into the tax to keeping Miles Turners around because the
vibes were high, right, like everyone was kind of buying
into this Pacers team. I made the point in that
piece saying, you should you should start with Turner. Well,
you shouldn't end with just Turner, like you should go
in and get Turner the money that he deserves, and
then from that shouldn't be the end of it, Like
you should keep spending. You should still be aggressive in
your spending patterns. Now I can appreciate and I can
understand why they definitely wouldn't do that after the Tyres
Helbert injury. But to already stuff the buck at Miles Turner.
Is it greecious business? Just a greacious.
Speaker 1: We have some breaking us we're going to get to
in a second. But mel again says Milwaukee outbid them
and he decided he wasn't worth it. Let's be honest,
They've been trying to trade him for years with no
buyers until now. That is actually incorrect.
Speaker 2: They've had buyers now plenty. Yeah, so what's the breaking news.
I'm I'm so, let's.
Speaker 1: All right, let's I think do anything else? Final thoughts
on the pagiers, like, do you think this could pretend
that will they be more aggressively not good next year?
Or do you think this again it was just so
financially driven and they think that they have enough depth
to kind of and maybe they end up with DeAndre
in or make a trade for another big man.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I don't know, but here's what I do know.
If this is if this is how financially motivated they are,
to the point where one game out of winning the
fucking title is apparently a nothing burger for them. They
will never ever ever be serious about it again.
Speaker 1: The breaking news more is Duncan Robinson is headed to
the Detroit Pistons. Did you see that one coming?
Speaker 2: He is?
Speaker 1: I did not three years, forty eight million. I'd like
to see the details on those out because Sean's is
notorious for leaving out important context. But Detroit is trading
Simoni Fontekio to Miami to facilitate the trade. It's a
sign in trade. I like this deal for the Pis,
Like Malik Beasley has, like the gambling investigation going on
with him. You just lost him hardaway junior, which you
know if he was gonna come back at the minimum, Like, yeah,
he could have been a useful player still for them,
but he's so streaky. It's they are just they feel
lighter on shooting overall, but they needed shooting because it
was Simoni fun Techo didn't have the best year last season.
I was so high on the money they brought, like
I thought that they robbed him in free agency. But
Duncan Robinson is just I know he's caught a lot
of shit over the past couple of years and that
Miami hasn't necessarily been the greatest even when they've you know,
turned on the Jets. Sometimes in the playoffs, Duncan Robinson
puts pressure on defenses, with his movement, with his shooting.
We've even seen him over the past like two seasons
do a little bit more like. Yeah, so I think
that's a really like it's a sizable investment, but like
average annual value of sixteen per year. And again I'd
like to see if there's like a team option or something,
or if it's a non guarantee on at least a
third one. I think that's a really good like because
Caid we saw a kind of thrive when he was
given that extra space to work with, helped him in transition,
helped him in the half court and everything. So now
you have him on this roster, I think that's big,
especially because you needed more shooting and now you get
just one of like a guy who can he can
prop up volume and efficiency. It's not just oh he'll
come in and take two or three three pointers a
game and knock him down. No, like he will get
them up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll, I have nothing to add. You just analyzed
the crap out of him. You're right, Yes, what else
do you want to see the Pistons do? What else?
Speaker 1: What else they got left going?
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not really in a rush with the Pistons,
to be honest with you, like I understand that they
made it far or was it compared to expectations, and
they want to keep building on it and that's fine.
Like if they they can find a fore man, like
a versatile fore man, I wouldn't hate it. But I'm
just not in a rush with the Pistons at all,
Like I can wait a year.
Speaker 1: Do you think Pascal Siakam is available? He said you
want them to get a four?
Speaker 2: I think I think the question is how much how
much can the pacer save in that trade? That's that's
the real question.
Speaker 1: Well, look, Devias Harris for Pascal Siakam, big difference there.
Speaker 2: There we go.
Speaker 1: That's only you have to add other money. Of course,
So I also I liked the Karouselvert signing for them.
I probably like, do you like Karslvert better for them
than Dennis Shrewder? I think I do.
Speaker 2: Always I thought you were not gonna ask me compared
to some Eligue Beastley. Yes, I do like Kroslvert more
than than Dennis Schorter. I look, Dennis is a fine player.
He's never gonna crack my list of someone who I
actively want on a roster. There's just so much baggage
with him as someone who isn't always a guy who
buys into the scheme, who buys into a locker room
vibe like his His investment is so heavily tied to
the feelings that he's like that he has at any
given moment, and that always makes him a concerning player
in my eye. So yeah, very much in on the
Karselbird experience.
Speaker 1: Correct cut says, gives kid some shooting. Duncan is in
back quality shooter, serviceable. Is he for sure a three
and D guy?
Speaker 2: Three guy, Yeah, three guy.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say he's gonna give you much like you
probably would prefer to put him on, like the most
stationary perimeter player on the other team is ideally where
you want to put him. We journey onward into our
teams that were set to talk about the Kings. We
didn't talk much about them during Night one. Moret but
they officially signed Dennis Shrewder. The number we had the
report that he was going there, but the number was TBD.
It's three years and forty five million, which I'm gonna
assume is like and it's supposed to be for the
full non tax MLA. I think that's a rounding error
if I'm not mistaken. So it's like three years and
forty four plus, so they have him. They traded Yonas
Valentunas to Denver for dari or Sarich. They're thinking being, hey,
we shaved five million dollars in salary. That's going to
open up the wiggle room for us to sign Shrewder.
They also picked up the team option on Keon Ellis.
We talked about that last night. He's still extension eligible,
as well as picked up the team option on Isaac
Jones No more Jake Laravia. I did find in another
just like you know, dissin and depressing king shit when
I think it was the third aprons Yassi Goslin posted
about now that they've were able to trade Jonnas Valentiunis
for Dariosars, they won't have to trade Malik Monk to
make a way for Dennis Shrewder. And I'm like, this
is just how are we here? How is that real life?
I understand the need for Shrewder, but this is someone
who's been on what twelve teams in four months? Is
that is that accurate?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Perhaps forty eight teams really yeah, they'reabouts. I will
never understand the league's overall fascination of Denn Schrueder. I
just I won't. I don't think he's particularly efficient at
running an offense. I don't think he is necessarily a
strong defender. I don't think his playmaking is remotely interesting
or special or particularly impactful. I am like, yes, he
will have a couple months here and there where he
will look like a fully fledged starter, and that is
almost exclusively because the ball is actually going through the basket.
It's not because oh, like suddenly Schroeder has great shot selection.
Now the ball's just going in, and he just varies
so much in effort and in buying and what I
mentioned before. So good on you, Kings, I guess for
getting a point guard in there to replace Darren Fox,
who's like fifteen levels below him.
Speaker 1: Clap, clap, I just where are all the wings on
this team? Can we get any? Then?
Speaker 2: Martin Rosen's gonna take all those minutes anyway?
Speaker 1: Just so many guards, Levigne and Shrewder and Monk DeRozan,
who's basically a follower I point forward at this point,
I still wouldn't call him a wing. Devin Carter uh,
just like all and now it's by the way, like
now you kind of have an issue at backup center
again because Jonas Valanciunas is gone and he was pretty
good for them. I don't know what's going on in Sacramento.
This is just like, you know what this is.
Speaker 2: I know what this is a vote of.
Speaker 1: Confidence in Nie Clifford.
Speaker 2: I agree, No, you know what it is. This is
a two K offseason simulation where you just let the
computer do its work, do its work with its weird
algorithms and rules and whatnot, and then the end resolve
is just like a mud pie of weird shit.
Speaker 1: I do this at these kind of proves that for
now they're probably not making any core changes, or if
they do, they're gonna be If anyone was thinking, oh,
they need to trade Levine or they need to trade Sibonus,
this leans more towards what can they attach to Maleigue
Monk or de mart Roseen to get talent in right.
I think this at least kind of clarifies and they
might have it's cements. We kind of knew that this
was the direction they were heading in, but this kind
of cements their direction. As we're in the bottom of
the middle, and we really want to stay there.
Speaker 2: Kean Ellis is going to be an understood free agent
next summer, right because they picked up his option.
Speaker 1: Yes, but they can't. I believe they can still extend him,
so I don't think that that's like a huge deal.
Speaker 2: They can. But my point is this, if this team
is such, if this team is like such a like
a random crapshoot of an organization, he'll have so much
more power now.
Speaker 1: That And that's the appeal of because while you can
still extend him, if you decline his team option to
make him a restricted free agent, you're basically just negotiating
with yourself at that point, and he has to sign
something because teams aren't giving an offer. There wasn't the
caps out there. If they did, it would have been
for the mid level and you could have matched. That
would have been the appeal. And now it's if you
let him reach free agency, he doesn't have to give
you a chance to match.
Speaker 2: He can just leave, right, That's my point. I like,
would you be shocked if ke Niless goes elsewhere next summer?
Because I sure as fuck wouldn't.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't shock me. But like, man, that would that
would suck. That's been like a pretty feel good story
for sure.
Speaker 2: When he's got to get paid and he wants to
go to a situation where he can win. He's an
impactful player.
Speaker 1: My prediction is that they're gonna extend him before next offseason.
That would be my prediction. But maybe I'm giving the
Kings too much credit.
Speaker 2: There, like for the King's sake, I hope so, but
for Kean Ella's maybe not.
Speaker 1: Uh Weiso says Schroeder is gonna be the first player
in NBA history to play on every team. Honestly, he
should go for it at this point, right if you
could do it?
Speaker 2: Nice? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Big disappointed? Not man sunsman? Is it? Oh? That's a
good question. Is now more for like it have an
OK player on a good contract or a good player
on a ubpar contract.
Speaker 2: That probably depends on the player and the position too.
Like if you're a wing, for example, and you're on
a like decent player but on a good contract, that
that that has something to it, like that has some fight.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything else on the Kings?
Speaker 2: Oh? God no?
Speaker 1: Do you think Keith Murray it's an extension before next season?
Speaker 2: He shouldn't.
Speaker 1: We're gonna move up there, rond to the Nags. Moret,
they made the biggest move of free agency to date
by signing Gershan yabusel away from the Sixers two years,
eleven point seven million. That is the second apron they were.
That is the second apron. That's the MINIML. They will
be hard capped at the second apron. He's a player
option on that final season. They also just a recap.
They signed Jordan Clarkson or they're going to once he
clears waivers for the Vets minimum, and they picked up
the team option on Ariel Huckporty. What do you think
about Yabu's fit in New York?
Speaker 2: I look, I love that you spent the second drin
on him. That's great and I didn't know you could
do that. No, I love the fit. I love the fit.
That is one of those big needs that they've had,
you know, having a big man who can come in
and shoot the ball at a high clip. The thing
about Yapoo is he's also so adept at handling the ball,
creating something out of nothing from the perimeter. Even even
as he's you know, a broad person. He is going
to add and I mean this in the most positive sense.
He's going to add an element of chaos to New
York's offense, which I think they need something that's unpredictable,
where he has games where he just suddenly pops off
for like eighteen points on high efficient shooting, and he's
like doing it through long range shooting. He's getting to
the Cup, He's sitting mid rangers like he is just
sort of a wild card, but a wildcard you need
to like reach that second level. Love it. I think
this is a fantastic fit.
Speaker 1: I like it. I hope the three point shooting sustains,
and it did while he was at Real Madrid and
then he came over in and like it's sustaining. So I
think that gives you hope. Like you mentioned, there is
some kind of en ball pizzaz there. I am worried.
I am worried. Like Clarkson Yabu sell okay, like they're
really leaning into offense, which is weird to say about
a team that ranked fifth in offense last year, but
they were basically league average for you know, half the season.
But like Yabu can do something like he's probably been
like he's not gonna give you a ton of rim protection.
If you're trying to play him with the five, you
can maybe get away with it depending on the team,
but the rim protection there is going to be spotty.
So but I think you now have two additional actual
NBA players in your rotation that you didn't like. Clarkson
is an upgrade over campaign Yabaseel. He's an upgrade over
precious Sachua. You've now upgraded those two spots. So I
think that's a pretty big deal. And you didn't have
a lot of tools to work with. I do just
look at this roster now more and I'm just there's
a lot of just like bigs and guards and like
Giannanobi and Michel Bridges are the only wings, like depending
on where you land with Josh Hart. And I don't
necessarily love you, know, I guess, like, what are you
doing with the starting five now? Because I think I
thought the goal of this off season would be, well,
you want to get away from that lineup with Josh
Hart that delivered a big bowl of unflavored oatmeal for
most of last season. I don't know if any of
these additions help you get there. You could just start
Mitchell Robinson next to Kat, But then I don't know
how I feel about Josh Hart and Yabuselli and Clarkson all, Like,
that's not that's a lot of could be streaky shooting
there coming off the same bench. So I like the
the moves for the value. I don't think you can
argue with them. These are just good value moves by
the Knicks. But I'm still it just feels like there's
unfinished business here.
Speaker 2: They are. They're one wing short, I feel right now.
But like, look, it's states to a free agency. Let's
see what happens. I will need Yapoo to just yam
on Lebron one more time at the end of it,
Like at the NBA level he did.
Speaker 1: Will Lebron be wearing? Will be at a practice scrimmage?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean, look that's the wing, right, depends
on what you give up though.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like designing. I'm just I want to see you.
I'm and to do all this without a head coach
is so weird. It sounds like it's gonna be Mike Brown.
Who is I was talking about this with Grant Uh
after Day one. Mike Brown's reputation as a head coach
is flipped right wasn't he known as a unless I'm
misremembering as a defensive mind earlier on, and now everyone's like, oh,
he's like an offensive genius, like kind of after he
spends time with the Warriors and the Kings, they can't
like you go, Yeah, for sure, I think that he
could do a lot of creative things with the roster
that's there now. And I think the other thing too,
is like, Yabhu's a pretty good offensive rebounder, so you
have him and Mitchell Robinson in the same rotation could
get pretty freaky. You will rebound all of your own misses.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, I I'm actually pretty high on
the next year, even if they're one wing short, because again
I'm an optimist. Pcom daddy. If he becomes a thing
in year two, like if a new coach actually gives
him minute if he is able to just absorb twelve
to fifteen minutes a game and do so, you know,
without just being a rookie. If you catch my drift
and just play steady on, that's a major boost. So
it's it's that. And look, there's also the trade headline.
We always forget about that, like it's you don't have
to have a complete roster for sure by the time
of going into the regular season, Like then you have
November December to really figure out what do we need,
and then you're starting to make plans, you're starting to
make calls, and then by the trade headline, perhaps something's growing,
perhaps something makes sense.
Speaker 1: Do you think is it all weird or concerning that
we haven't gotten news in cal bridges extension yet.
Speaker 2: I think they're focused on roster upgrades and then they
take care of the internal stuff afterwards because they know
they have him in hand. Like you know, if teams
focus too much on extensions with own players during the
free agency periods, I would probably preferred to, like think
outside the organization, go get the guys you need, then
take care of the guys you have.
Speaker 1: So you're saying the thunder made a mistake extending shake Gilgris.
Speaker 2: Alexander, there are exceptions to the rules.
Speaker 1: Do you think that mckel bridges is going to sign
one the four from one to fifty six? Because Grant
and I also went through the list of could be
twenty twenty six free agents, and I say this without
a hint of trying to be hyperbolic. For the sake
of hashtag content. There is a chance, and I would
say that, I would say mckel bridges is definitely gonna
be one of the three best available free agents if
he doesn't sign an extension. There is a chance that
he's the single best free agent available next summer. And
that's like, if you're him, if you're his agent, you're
looking at that the chance to get four years and
two hundred plus million from an outside team to leverage
the Knicks into a fifth year kind of like og
did where five and two twelve point five. I'm almost
wondering if that's the most likely outcome now that he
doesn't sign I honestly thought he was going to sign it.
I thought that was kind of baked in to acquiring
him in the first place. And now just because he's
been eligible for it since the end of the NBA Finals,
So what a little bit more than a week.
Speaker 2: I'm where's the extension?
Speaker 1: Unofficially like, oh no, this is bad?
Speaker 2: Is any team going to pay him two hundred million
even in the open market? Are really looking at that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Uh oh. I. My prediction would be if he
reaches free agency next year, he will have a four
year max contract offer on the table, and it's lowered
a little bit. I think it was at like two
nineteen at one point, but the cap is coming in lower,
but it'll be in that range still.
Speaker 2: Am I am. I on him for thinking that's too much.
Speaker 1: We could have a conversation about that. I think that's different.
I actually think there are a lot of Knicks fans
and this might have just been captive of the moment
type stuff following the playoffs that think the four years
and one hundred and fifty six million is too much
for him.
Speaker 2: And I don't Oh no, no, no, that's fair. No, no, no,
that is that is totally fair. It's the when you
get out into the two hundred range for a guy
who's probably what like the third option on a team,
that's like, and I understand the defense, don't worry, I
get the defensive point. But that's a lot of money
for a third option.
Speaker 1: It is I mean, could you make the case is
the Knicks that should you be considered like a serious
enough contender where you're okay paying it? I mean maybe,
So that's like, so his max next year, So his
max next year will be four years and two thirteen
point five million from another team. My guess would be
that he gets that or close to it, and I
think he certainly gets more than four years, one hundred
and fifty six if he hits the open market.
Speaker 2: I think that's inarguable. To elaborate on my it is
New York point. It's a huge market. They should be
able to, like if there's a team out there that
should be willing to hand out major contracts and kind
of send that message to the league that yeah, we're paying,
We're willing to pay absolutely.
Speaker 1: I think the issue with it is I think they
would pay it. So if they're not going to pay him,
I think he will get traded. So if he says
no to an extension and they believe that they don't
want to pay him, or that they don't want to
chance it in free agency, they will move him. I
think this front office is earn't that type. They have
that type of forethought. But if you are willing to
pay him. With OG's contract, towns Is contract, Brunton is
going to be more expensive, but he's the best value,
one of the best value contracts in the league.
Speaker 2: Still.
Speaker 1: YEA, you run into like the appeal of extending Michale
Bridges is it may give you another like, oh, now,
maybe you don't have to worry too much about the
second apron until twenty twenty seven rather than twenty twenty six.
And so that's the gambit of letting him hit free agency.
If he doesn't sign the extension, yeap our next team
on the docket, then we need to talk about You
want to go for two hours on Toronto signing Sandral Mamuskelly?
Speaker 2: Two hours? Is that even that that that only talks
about that's only his defense.
Speaker 1: They did so they signed Mamu two years and five
point three million player option on that final season. They
also this is like this should be the actual headliner.
They extended Yakab Pertle, which, by the way, Shams is
like structure of reporting. This was just a mess. He
said it was a four year extension. It's a three
year extension because he picked up his player option. He
is five years total left on his contract now for
a total of one hundred and twenty three point five
million dollars. This extension runs through his age thirty four season,
I gotta say. And Toronto also moved back the guaranteed
date on Jamison Battles contract from July first to July ninth.
I gotta say directors seem pretty obsessed with Yaka Pearl.
They gave, they traded him, traded a top ten pick
to get him back, extended him, and extended him again
when he's still had three years left on his deal.
Speaker 2: I mean, unless Yaga Pearl has some uh explicit photos
of ownership or what, I don't get it. Like, look,
I love Purdle. To this extent, to this contract extension
a little too rich for my blood, that's the kind
way to say it. He's a fellow euro so I
won't be too dismissive. But when I saw that, I was.
I was pretty surprised. I really was. I thought that
they would if they were to extend him in any way,
shape or form. I thought it'd be very similar to
what he was getting now. Like right now he's getting
nineteen and a half million per years. Think it is
like twenty even twenty flat. That's reasonable to go up?
Damn your thirty? Does it exceed thirty? I think to finally,
Europe might actually exceed thirty.
Speaker 1: It's an average of twenty eight per so I mean
it could.
Speaker 2: I mean, Okay, there's a new cap in place. Like,
I guess it's not too it greachies, but man, I
still think that's a lot.
Speaker 1: It feels unnecessary. Why wasn't this something that could have
waited so it'll never be? And I do think it's
important to frame it in these terms. As of right now,
it's projected to top out in the final season at
thirty point three million, which would be fifteen point one
percent of the cap. That's his age thirty four season.
I just don't it's not even so much the money,
but like, why now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, could have waited a year.
Speaker 1: You could have waited a year before you needed to
do this, and then you have a better idea of
who you are, like with all of what you have,
Like Ingram hasn't played for this team yet, you have
to integrate Colin Murray Boyles. You just lost Versailles. Oh,
there's apparently only five million. I must have missed that one.
There's only five million guaranteed in the final season. I
didn't see that anywhere. That's not on sppoture. Okay, spot track,
I get, but I would still point to why why now?
Like this is still not a deal that needed to
be done this summer. That doesn't change the complexion of
this at all for me, You.
Speaker 2: Could even have gotten gone into twenty seven free agency
and let him says the market.
Speaker 1: There right, or just how does this season go? He's
still under contract like for another year? Like what? I
just it just it was just weird and let and
did you really did they think though that he was
in danger of maybe getting Cagy? Like? Is that the
logic here?
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: Like. I honestly just don't know. Like the player option
wasn't even like it was.
Speaker 2: Does Zaka Purdle get Cag? Can Austria get Cagy? Well?
Speaker 1: I honestly I would point to even if he was
gonna opt out like it was he first of all,
he clearly wasn't or was at least like not dead
set on it because he opted in as part of
this deal. But if he was gonna opt out, is
someone just gonna pounce at the opportunity from twenty million
dollars a year like the Bucks can't wave and stretch
Damian Loward again?
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, you're right, I don't think that's that was
out there. That too seemed like they just want to
It really seems like they've been aggressive and blocking guys
up right, they want to have this troop. They kind
of believe in it without having seen it. They are
going into this year with, in my opinion, enormous pressure
to perform. Like there are basically no excuses left. Guys
have been paid, the team has more or less said
this is this is the squad that we're rolling with.
We've invested heavily in it. Now now's the time to
go win. I'm asking some pretty big questions about the
capability of doing so, although of course adding Mamu helps.
Speaker 1: Uh, can't you want to talk about his fit on
Toronto and why he's how many All Games he's gonna make?
Speaker 2: Oh, he's only signed a two year deal, so only
two All Star games? Dand let's not be unreasonable.
Speaker 1: Well, the second year is a player options. Does he
opt out and get the max contract from somebody else?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably right. Actually one All Star game then no.
So here's here's He's one of my favorites. And along
with like, I always have like a you know, a
bunch of guys who are around the league who aren't
hitting in enough minutes who I I you know, I
have a good feel about like and Mamo was one
of them Trenton Watford which just signed Philly excellent value
there as well. Like Mamu is just so rock solid.
He moves incredibly well for someone who's very large. He's
he's no, well, he's six eleven and he's he's definitely
two sixty. Like I've I've shagging in his hand, like
I've had a conversation with him as well, and like
he was once listed at six', NINE i can tell
you that is. Bullshit six, eleven absolutely. Sure and he's
just such a humongous human. Being he's capable of passing
on the. Move he's leaned into the three point, shooting
WHICH i really. Enjoy he's crafting the, post he'll rebound.
Now the defense is something that is probably never going to,
be you, know a strength of, His but offensively speaking
from a backup, center when he can provide you with
that level of floor spacing with the offensive, IMPRINT i
can't wait to see him in a more expanded. ROLE
i Asked Mitch, johnson AND i told you this before In,
paris like why Isn't mamo playing? More and can we
expect to see him in the second half of the,
Year and he gave me this answer where he was, like,
no the typical, Oh mamu is always staying ready and.
Whatnot and Then mamo played and he played, well and
every time he played AFTER i kind of asked that,
question he was just, like kept doing well and at
some point you also have to get out of your
own way be. That if it's in this case The
spurs where they just didn't play. Him i'm really Hoping
toronto opens that door for. Him And i'm not saying
twenty five forty minutes or anything of the, sort but
give him a consistent backup role with consistent minutes night to,
night and he'll be an asset for you for.
Speaker 1: SURE i hope they give him that consistent. ROLE i,
MEAN i Guess Chris bouchet is still. UNSIGNED i don't
know how, much if at, all they want to PLAY
cmb at, center And i'm assuming they're obviously committed To Yaka.
Pertl you can get In paul trouble sometimes, though and
there's certain matchups where he just doesn't make a ton of.
Sense they needed like the type of offense that Mam who.
PROVIDES i think it really helps you know with their
personnel Where i'm a big believer and like you're having
a lot of on ball decision makers is going to be,
great but like you need spacing to help optimize, that
and he will do, that and so he can play
next TO cmb if you want to run Out Brandon
ingram And Scottie barnes AND cmb, Together LIKE MoMu makes
a lot of sense at center in those. Lineups, maybe
and you're kind of, hope like that's sort of the
trade off of just we talk about it a lot
where it's, okay MAYBE cmb does like some of the center,
stuff so that mom who doesn't have to and it
gets easier to kind of stash him. AROUND i think
this really will help out a lot of their core
lineup structures if they're willing to go to. It AND
i don't feel Like Yaka purtle's never been someone that
you play thirty eight minutes a game, Anyway SO i
like with this signals LIKE i hope this is the
team that gives him the expanded. ROEBOOKS i think that
for The raptors to be the best version of themselves
at least on offense next, year they almost need. To
AND i agree with you about what you said about
their pressure JUST i. Don't i'm like the whole messigh.
THING i don't know what promises were. Broken i'm sure
there was money in power struggles behind the scenes as.
WELL i don't know what this. Like it feels like
they're going to go into the season mostly with this roster.
INTACT i know that they will linked To, oh they
want to pull off a big move that would probably
fairly surprise. Me i'm so, interested bordering on morbidly curious
to see how all this ties, Together like when you
just look at the current makeup of their, roster our
next team on the docket more The Denver. Nuggets, LOOK
i gotta walk back some stuff BEFORE i throw it to.
You they've had a really good, offseason and even like
after The Josh cronkeys comments and then even after The
Cam johnson, TRADE i still just questioned whether he was
enough of an upgrade to go strictly From Michael Porter
junior To Cam johnson and The nuggets are. BETTER i
sat there AND i, said this was after day, one
that let's see what they do with access to the
non tax payer mid level boy o, boy they did some.
STUFF i Mean Tim Hardaway junior at the, minimum that's
a good, deal add some shooting to a roster that, Like,
Okay Cam, johnson let's say replaces What Michael Porter junior
does on, offense it's not if he augments. It it's
not buy a crap. Ton and now you Get jonna
Saln chuni speaking of offense as your backup, big who
like this is aside from, Okay Aaron gordon at the,
five like this is probably the best backup big that
den ever Given Nicole. Jokic so they got, him, questionably
they got him for giving Up Dario sharitch, too so
that ends up there ends up being a use to
that signing him to the mini Mle what if you
THOUGHT i. TALKED i gave my thoughts last Night tod
To grant and now we have these two other transactions
to go With Cam johnson And Bruce. Brown how are
you feeling About denver?
Speaker 2: Overall how CAN i not love? This absolutely love. This
it's one thing with The Cam johnson, trade like THAT
i gave that trade A b BECAUSE i did think
it was better for The nets and just in terms
of how they leveraged their cap, space SO i gave
them AN.
Speaker 1: A BUT.
Speaker 2: B it's not a bad. Grade everything they did after
that was a flat out a AND i think that
pushed The Michael Porter junior trade up to an. Acause,
well you.
Speaker 1: Could look at it and, say right, like you Turned,
Sarich Michael Porter junior and your twenty thirty two pick
Into Jonas valanciunas And Cam.
Speaker 2: Johnson, yeah and that's that's a perfectly reasonable. Return you
also Signed Bruce, prown by the, WAY i want credit
on that, one at least partial, credit Because i've been
on that for a year that he would return To
denver when his contract was, over AND i think that
is the perfect place for him to come back and
rehab his.
Speaker 1: Value i'm gonna give you credit for absolutely. Nothing but,
YEAH i, know Nice Josh, lord everyone give let's all
have a moment of silence out of applause for. More go,
ahead there you.
Speaker 2: Go is THIS i hesitate to ask this? Question is
this the Best nuggets? Team That jokis just? Said, well look.
Speaker 1: At that that was a question the. Chat are they
as good as twenty twenty Two? Denver So i'm assuming
twenty twenty, two twenty twenty, THREE i mean doesn't, Okay
so the answer to that question doesn't it kind of
just hange on what version Of Jamal murray are you?
Getting is? That is that? Too, NO i Know i'm
being an. Asshole, NO i thought the same. Thing you're.
Speaker 2: Not that's Why i'm. Laughing we're on the same. Page
You're you're absolutely. Right BUT i want to stay optimistic
About jamal because the alternative it's, just, oh that's so.
Depressing but if, yeah we've just Seen jokic go through
what his best season so far, ever so LIKE i
don't think you'll see a significant drop off from. Him like,
now he's actually got players who can back him up
to the point where they don't lose you, know the
primittent battle when he's on the, bench not at least not.
Necessarily i'm Expecting Christian brown to get even. Better i'm
Expecting Peyton watson to get even. Better i'm crossing my
fingers That Julian strather is going to get. Better and
now they also Have Tim Hardaway, junior who you said
it before we start. Recording he's gonna feast in that.
Role all the amount of open, threes it's gonna be.
Insane and then you always you.
Speaker 1: Need to fit like, well Not, phil but replace the
quota of dumb shots taken By Michael Porter. Jr And
Tim Hardway junior will give you those, too very very.
Speaker 2: True and also now you've Got Bruce, brownback who's a,
connector who's a, defender, rebounder, playmaker and a bit of a.
Shooter and that's even before getting into the fact That
Cam johnson is probably structurally better Than Michael Porter junior
in many. Respects offensively, SPEAKING i. Don't, Yeah SO.
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you are you all concerned ABOUT
i know everyone And Josh cronka guess was alluding To
Michael Porter junior's health in that press conference he Had
Cam johnson has never played in the equivalent of seventy
games in AN nba, Season, like do you sign like
any sort of concern to?
Speaker 2: That of COURSE i. Do like availability is a, thing
especially in TODAY'S, nba so of course that's not something
that went. Unnoticed but at the same, time given the cap,
HIT i also just sort of think that when you're
earning twenty one, million if you miss a handful of
games every single, year it's not, optimal but it's easier
to swallow if you're on a near max contract for
a guy like, him, THOUGH i think when he's able
to play off someone Like jokic and he's never played
off someone that good, before perhaps we're gonna see more
streamlined shots and perhaps that's gonna help him actually stay
on the floor a little bit.
Speaker 1: More, YEAH i mean it. Could and ALSO i keep
coming back to from just a value, PERSPECTIVE i think
you can make the case that he is an upgrade
Over Michael Porter junior than SEE i think he does
a better job at points playing within, himself and if
he's not so when they won the, TITLE i feel
Like Michael Porter junior didn't receive enough credit on, defense
and SO i feel like mpj's peak on defense is
probably higher Than Cam. Johnson's BUT i feel Like Cam
johnson has like a consistent, equilibrium like he's just gonna
like he's not gonna be, great but he's never gonna
be like terrible and completely checked out there.
Speaker 2: Either and he's a much better playmaker THAN mpg as,
well like he will find those guys cutting on the
baseline out of, nowhere like there's there's a like a
short role game there THAT i think is underrated Or
Cam so like the, inverse he can roll options between
him And jokic and the fact that it's Not yogic
necessarily delivering the final. Pass that's. Interesting, LIKE i think
there are a lot of interesting Intriguing that was the
word house looking for a lot of intriguing offensive implementation.
Speaker 1: Possibilities, look and do you know WHAT i like about,
this because we've talked about this as. WELL i saw
just a lot of people like being concerned about their
defense leading into the off, season AND i came away
from their series against The, thunder AND i know The
thunder's offense can be. SLOGGY i came away more worried
about their offense Like denver's. Offense and so, THIS i
mean the shooting from let's Say Cam. JOHNSON i, think in,
net if they're both, Healthy Porter junior has more, size better.
REBOUNDER i Think Cam johnson's a slight upgrade at, least
like if they're both operating at the peak of their.
Powers now you add The Tim Hardaway junior to the
Equation Jonas Fallen chownish just as the backup five LIKE
i feel better about Like Jonas valentunis can. GET i
feel like his floor spacing has been overrated where it's
like there's never been enough. Volume it's A i can't
remember who said, it but it's a party. Trick like
he cracks open like one or two three pointers a,
game but like he can mash dudes like that's gonna
give you another presence on the. Glass and the bigger, thing,
too is it's not just about winning the minutes that
a kolok is off the. Floor it's about giving the
kola jokis more time to be off the. Floor and so,
like like the usage that he has to shoulder on
this team sometimes is just. Insane and last year he
was at thirty six point seven minutes per, game which
was very comfortably just a career. High he had never
been over thirty five. Before and so now that he's
just gonna go into his age thirty, season, NO i
don't expect him to break, down but like this is
LIKE i think this is good and if, anything you,
KNOW i might, Question, okay how much value Does Jonas
funchunis have you in a playoff? Setting BUT i think
that For, denver you know what your best five man
unit is gonna be in the. Playoffs it's how do
we eat regular season innings and how do we like
get to a point where we're not having to gun
it down the stretch of the, season or there's not
just so much waffling or so much. AMBIGUITY i think
they've done, That like there's just a lot of depth
here and, now As danny meant and mentions in the,
chat can they for their next trick like Turning charlotts
Into yonah valenchuwn it's his peak. Opportunism, now how do
they get rid of The Zi nause? CONTRACT i don't.
Speaker 2: Know let me talk About Jonas valentunas. INSTEAD i don't
want to talk About. Signachi that's a waste of. Time
that was, harsh but it's it's also. True just imagine
the situation here where there's a late game presence where
they have to go get a, board like The, knockles
just have to go get the damn. Ball you can
Put jonas And nicola on the floor together and that
is going to be just outrageous size. Outrageous they are
so good at not just going both of them are
great to just go getting the ball, right but they're
also so great at reading, ankles like they will box
the everlasting shit out like their guy also like relinguishing
their own rebounds for someone else to swoop. In those
two when they play in conjunction with each, other it's
going to be so interesting on the. Glass in, particular
good eat luck grabbing a Rebound with those two guys
on the.
Speaker 1: Floor you think they're gonna Play Yo Kitchen valentinas.
Speaker 2: Together not like for a whole, lot BUT i do
think there's going to be some overlap here and. There, yes.
Speaker 1: That's. MAN i never even thought about it in those
terms THAT i, mean that'd be a gigantic. ONE i,
Mean houston would certainly do. It they would call The
nuggets cowards for not doing.
Speaker 2: IT i would, ARGUE, i, LOOK i don't know the
number of, this but we will absolutely see A nicola
Jokicch yonna s final On chewns pick and roll this. Season. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Uh why so it says in the, chat and this
Is i've thought a lot about The Ron holmes over
the past couple of. MONTHS i was not like super
high on him coming out of the, draft but the
idea of him as a floors facing room. Protector don't
know how he gets minutes on this team, Now but
maybe what you've done is increase the number of just
like garbage time wins That timber has and you can
get The Ron holmes out. There legend of Ox berman
says that The nuggets are still gonna make trades With.
Nause i've thought, SO i was gonna ask you About Christian.
Brown it feels like them saving the money from going
From Michael Porter Junior Cam. Johnson if you were ever
concerned about them Paying Christian. BROWN i don't think you are.
Anymore i've wondered in the context of, though what does
this mean for. It does it make it more likely
that they extend or bring Back Peyton watson after next?
Season or do you view him as if they would
they be willing to attach him To Zeke naugy, maybe
or they even like A Julian strather because now you
Have Tim Hardaway junior And Cam, Johnson, like what do
you sort of make like The Christian brown. STUFF i
THINK i might even say that he'll probably get extended
now that they kind of have some certainty with how
much cheaper they, are like going From Michael Porter junior
To Cam johnson next. Season The Peyton watson of it
all really fascinates, me, though so.
Speaker 2: It's it's interesting BECAUSE i talked about this on The
danish podcast earlier today and AND i throughout how hypothetical
That i've been thinking about for a. While, Now let's
Assume Peyton watson agrees to a very modest contract. Extension
he's extension ultible like eleven million straight like flat for.
Example do you just do that and just just, say, okay,
well the cab is still going to, increase and it's
a flat, rate so his cap hit is going to
or not cap, hit his cap percent is going to,
decline and it's still so, WELL i, mean if it's
a flat, rate it is true, True, Sue you're, right, Right,
uh not by, MUCH i can see. That but still
but if it's eleven million a year for like three,
years that gives you, runway, right like that gives you
runway for him to both you, know pop but also,
like at no point would you think of that Contract
Peyton watson eleven million a year and, goo oh that's
screeches like it's. Straightable isn't that like a pretty fine
like common ground.
Speaker 1: Area, YEAH i, mean if he's gonna sign for, that
if it's like a cheap contract where it's less if
if he's gonna sign for less than the non tax
payer mid, LEVEL i probably just pounce on. IT i
don't know if he he feels like the, quintessenter Maybe
Jonathan kameningo will be a good lit miss test for
like whatever he gets in this. MARKET i know he's
shown more offensive starter Than Peyton. Watson let me be,
clear like if he gets a lot of money in
a limited, market, like does that embolden him to, say,
oh if they're only gonna give me like let's say
three for fifty six or four for, whatever, Right like
for like, That i'll just test. It i'm, sorry four
for fifty six or four for sixty or. Something i'd
be very curious to be a fly on the wall
in those contract. Negotiations and if there if there are
extension negotiations and you don't come to terms with. ONE
i wonder if he becomes a trade. CANDIDATE i know
how restricted free agency, works but just With, denver you
know you're gonna Pay Christian. Brown you got a little
bit cheaper going From Michael porter To Cam. Johnson but
like maybe you view that as, like, well that just
made up the difference between Like Christian brown's.
Speaker 2: Raise and also if he isn't interested in citing that
type of, contract if he's looking for a substantial amount
more than that or a higher amount of, that that's
when you pair him With signachi in the trade and
use him to dump.
Speaker 1: It so what do those two make? Combine because He
ignology is still like flowing around the nine twelve and a,
half they make twelve and a half, combined and they
HAVE i think four million in room beneath the first
apron right, Now so you could get a sixteen million
dollar player unless my math is off, there that's, LIKE
i don't know who that sixteen million dollar player, is
but that's like, it that's. It that's an option you
can explore because you're you're accomlishing two things at. Once
then you're not Paying Peyton watson's next deal and you're
getting off the balance of That Zeke nology. Contract, now
that's not going to get you Like Kobe white as
someone we'd like. That they's not gonna get You Kobe.
White there's nowhere near what you can but like a
sixteen million dollar, player like that's, somebody.
Speaker 2: Ah, see he said. Eighteen But Kevin heurd her same
team different.
Speaker 1: Guard, yeah that's like you Have Tim hardaway junior, though
And Cam johnson do you need? Him, yeah that's. FAIR
i was thinking someone with more ball. HANDLING i don't know.
WHO i don't necessarily know. WHO i, mean Like Norman
powell makes too, Much bogdanovich makes too. Much the one who.
Speaker 2: Still don't Like Norman powell as like a bald. HANDLER
i understand what you're, meaning, Though LIKE i still think
he's more for like a straight line.
Speaker 1: Score this would Be, Oh Cole, anthony that's. Interesting he
Wo they might be able to get him on The Bio.
Speaker 2: Martin at this, point, Right Cole anthony would be interesting.
Here that's that's a flyer cret.
Speaker 1: Cup by, WAY i not already passed on The, kings
but any news On Demort. Rosen, No king's just stuck with, Him,
kay got? It, yeah you answer your own. Question i've
kudos to. YOU i couldn't have said it anymore. Succinctly
legend of box PERMENT i owe on the bulls is
What i'm seeing. Now i'm wondering this is you could
tell me If i'm an, Idiot but, like, so if
you gave up your twenty thirty two second round pick
With Zik naji is enough to get you io or,
no you need to Include Peyton. Watson you, know.
Speaker 2: It's an expiring contract for what is not an expiring?
Contract like you're adding what how many? Years is? It like? Two?
Two he's picking up his. Option that seems Again i'm
trying to not be affected by the fact that The
bulls are. Idiots what if.
Speaker 1: We throw in Like Hunter tyson Or Jalen, pickett.
Speaker 2: Give me The Ron, Holmes i'll do.
Speaker 1: It, oh is that interesting with Valanc, like is that
something you? Consider is that? Yeah hell, yeah we. Fit
we did it, well you did, It you did, It
you and legend Of Ox berriman did. IT i love.
That so the Second Naji Dayron holmes For iotsumu and
then we could just pencil The nuggets. In IS i,
mean they're the second best team in The west to
me right? Now? Right, yeah their team's in the Conversation Houston,
Minnesota BUT i Think.
Speaker 2: Albot houston has. Done BUT i Think denver because, yeah
you finally had a year where you didn't take like
enormous steps.
Speaker 1: Back, YEAH i will say if Reed shepherd averages over
twenty seven minutes per. Game i'll say The rockets for
the second best team in The, east.
Speaker 2: Right because if he plays twenty seven minutes per, game
he'll average forty eight. Points according to, you.
Speaker 1: WELL i know you're being an, asshole and kudos to,
you and you should. Be but at the same, time
if he is averaging twenty seven minutes per, game it's
because something's gone right for him, though, Right otherwise you
wouldn't play him that.
Speaker 2: Much or if something has gone horribly wrong with The
rockets at, Large.
Speaker 1: Danny matt and The west is going to be a
blood bath next, year just like it is every. Year
But i'm having an, normally there's LIKE i feel LIKE
i have a very easy time of, saying, oh these
are the top four, teams, RIGHT i can give you
the top two right, now and Then i'm kind of
three probably with The, rockets right. Yeah everyone else is
just like because you could The rockets feel like the one,
team not the one, team excuse. Me they they feel
like a team that even if they don't, peak like
they have a very high floor because even If Kevin,
durant which is out for the, year The rockets might
still win fifty.
Speaker 2: Games AM i? Insane for wanting to put The spurs
up in like the top five.
Speaker 1: Area, yes you, ARE i just there, too relying on
too many youngsters right? Now what about The clippers, Though.
Speaker 2: Oh, well they have this one youngster who was kind of,
good but, yeah, YEAH.
Speaker 1: I mean it was Like. Champagne is he really even that? Young?
Speaker 2: He, yeah he's still got some time and he's actually six.
Speaker 1: Eight, ooh this is what we need to, do this quick.
Exercise so our top three teams in The west are
The thunder And i'm going in Order, Nuggets. Rockets, yeah
and then after, THAT i think it's is it The
it's got to Be, Clippers. Wolves maybe not in that.
Speaker 2: ORDER i uh, NO i would Say clippers over The
wolves for me right now because The Brook lopez. ADDITION
i really like, that despite the fact that he's, slower,
older all that he can still shoot and still. Reprotector
that gave them some depth AND i THINK i thought they.
NEEDED i don't hate. That it's just it comes down
To kawai, again, right is he gonna be? Healthy what
are we looking at? Here the way he looked in
the playoffs was ridiculously. Good so if we're gonna get
that over the, course of a full season or what
is a full season for, him which is probably sixty.
GAMES i, mean that's that's a formidable. Team so we.
Speaker 1: Think we have our top five, then, right even if
it's you want to fuck and fiddle with the order
a little.
Speaker 2: Bit, WELL i MEAN i THINK i have my top.
Speaker 1: Four you don't think The timberwolves deserve like the the
auto like fifth in.
Speaker 2: There i'm skeptical of a couple of. Things so for,
ONE i Thought Rudy gobert legitimately regressed this last. SEASON
i thought we saw a noticeable tick down in his,
production his. EFFORT i think we're looking at the. DECLINE
i think that has, started AND i think that is.
Real they Lost Nikkil Alexander, walker WHICH i don't think
of everyone has sort of like just an oh, okay
they lost. HIM i don't think that is just something
you oh okay. AWAY i think that is a significant
loss for. THEM i do think their depth is no
longer as big of an asset that it has been
in the play. Past even though they never had great,
depth they had. Some Mike conley is about eight million
years old at this. Point HE'S i think he started humanity,
actually just like the time of. Man so we're looking
at a team that is. Old do we trust like
there are just so many unanswered. Questions do we Trust
Rob dillingham to come in and take more? Minutes do
we Trust tar And Terrence Stannon junior to come in
and play effectively over those courts those? Minutes Is donte
Given gentzo gonna have a better start to this to
this season compared to last? Season? Is and then my big, Question,
dan and this is all like the, uncertainties and that's
WHY i have a big, problem like just pigeonholing them into.
Fifth like a guy Like jade, McDaniels we finally saw
him become more of an offensive, player something that we've
all been wanting to see for a long. Time is
that going to be something that we see again next this?
Year or he's gonna be a little bit more? Passive
like there are just so many things that bother me
about that team to the point WHERE i can't lock
them in At SO i think.
Speaker 1: The concerns you lay out are for sure Fair AND
i might actually even say THAT i think you exaggerated
how Much jade McDaniels grew on, offense which would be a.
Speaker 2: Problem all, right, fair but he's got. Better he started
taking open. SHOTS i, mean.
Speaker 1: But so my question would be what is so then
what would be the team that you think is like then?
Speaker 2: FIFTH i don't, Know, dan the off season is two days.
OLD i have no.
Speaker 1: Idea what see you're sitting here saying it's not The
wolves as, Much.
Speaker 2: No it's not The. WOLVES i don't think it's The.
WOLVES i think it. Is you.
Speaker 1: Can't you can't say it's not The wolves and say.
Speaker 2: WHY i MEAN i kind of said, it but then
you shut it down because you're an. Asshole that's.
Speaker 1: FAIR i have an. Asshole you got that, Right, like.
Speaker 2: Well i'm just not ruling out The. Spurs i'm not
ruling out The.
Speaker 1: Spurs do you feel better about The spurs as an
overall team next season then you do about The. TIMBERWOLVES
i kinda. Do That's i'm, sorry that's insane to.
Speaker 2: Me that's. Fine, Look i'm okay being. Wrong i'm just
saying you asked, me And i'm giving you an honest.
Answer there's a part of me that thinks that The
spurs have work going for them than The, wolves.
Speaker 1: So we can remove like our performative hats for a,
second there is a chance That wenby's just so good
That spurs end up being like fourth or third in The.
WEST i won't and they have The Iron. Fox Maybe
Dylan harper's. Good like we, say there's always this learning
curve specifically for, guards And i'm, like there's probably stuff.
Done it's the whether that's true or. Not but Like
Dylan harper's role specifically should be more streamlined than the
typical like top two pick coming. IN i just to
bet on that With wenby's, health like you, know like how, Again, Oh.
Speaker 2: I'm not a big, Look i'm. Not i'm not packing
that in BECAUSE i have no Idea i'm not a.
DOCTOR i don't know enough about are you on the?
Speaker 1: SHOW i?
Speaker 2: Know, sorry this is getting so that's that's that's my
Fa my. Bad i'll, Go i'll, Go i'll go. Train
i'll come back in a couple of, years more than
a couple of.
Speaker 1: Years so HERE'S i. Guess, like are there any other
teams though then that belong in the mix for the,
Top like do you Think memphis belongs in? There do The?
WARRIORS i don't. Know we STILL i can't figure out
what The lakers.
Speaker 2: Are DOING i can't. Know so The lakers is the
one seam that's on the, bubble because, again it feels
like there's something going on there Where lebron is sort
of waiting things out if he's moved because he's dissatisfied
with what they're. Doing that changes as calculus if we
assume that this is the current version of The, lakers you,
know with one added, center and THEN i, AIDEN i don't,
KNOW i don't know who that center is going to,
be BUT i would probably put them in that conversation as.
WELL i just don't think ask you, know currently we're
discussing this On july. Second All july second for, Me
july first for. You we don't have enough data on
The lakers based on The lebron, thing so that's WHY
i kind of avoided.
Speaker 1: Them it's you're, right it's early into free. AGENCY i
think that there's a clear top five right. Now if
you want to fuss with the, order and we have
correct cuts saying how are we just plugging the nuggets
in over The? Rockets is number? Two it's JUST i,
mean it's just our. Opinion if you said The rockets
are at number, Two i'm not really gonna.
Speaker 2: Fight we're just asking, questions which is actually.
Speaker 1: We're just making statements in particulars.
Speaker 2: We're making we're asking questions to each. Other, no but but,
Like i'm not trying to be an asshole with The
wolves at.
Speaker 1: All you're doing a good job of it. ANYWAY i,
AM i really.
Speaker 2: Am IT'S i just think there are significant questions hovering
around that. Franchise and, look they might prove me. Wrong
it might be. Fine they might make The West finals
again and just be, like shut up more and it's,
great maya colpa if that. Happens but something just doesn't
pass the smell test here for.
Speaker 1: Me, so in the interest of being forced to, choose
IF i had to pick my top six in The,
west in probably like no particular, order but a semi particular,
Order i'd HAVE, Okc, Denver, houston The, clippers The, wolves
and my sixth team would Be i'm like way more
tempted to Put dallas in here THAN i should. Be
i'll go with The warriors. HERE i feel really good
about them going through a training camp With Jimmy. Butler
maybe if they Lose Jonathan comingo for nothing or if he's,
back you have to worry about the. FIT i think
THERE'S i think that team like having some practice time.
Together and again this everything is health. Dependent you could
Say STEP's are trillion years. OLD i get. It that's totally.
FINE i think those are my top six as of
right Now july the first twenty twenty? Five who would
your top six?
Speaker 2: Be go?
Speaker 1: Ahead Is? Portland, Man i'd be telling who do you
feel better? About portland Or New? Orleans was the better
record next? Year?
Speaker 2: No, Look i'm being an asshole again because they have
To Monty. Kamara i'm just.
Speaker 1: ID i love To Monti. KAMARA i hope he gets his.
Extension who would your top six?
Speaker 2: Be, okay See, Denver, Houston, clippers Fucking spurs.
Speaker 1: And Mel this might help you to, it says Is memphis.
DISMISSED i don't think they're. DISMISSED i JUST i don't
know THAT i trust. THEM i mean The tiger home,
SIGNING i really like that THAT.
Speaker 2: I did, too and and the sentil Dom my. EXTENSION
i really enjoyed it as. Well so my my number six.
Team it really comes down, to like the Whole Los angeles,
situation are we just Assuming lebron will be back and
its virtually the, same seems right, now plus some center.
Speaker 1: Maybe they don't know.
Speaker 2: Center, yeah that that would push them out of the top.
Speaker 1: Six for, me there's this kind of speaks to. It
but the only Teams i'd be prepared to guarantee won't
be within like playoff striking distance Are New orleans And.
Speaker 2: Utah that's it right? RIGHT i, mean, look if it's top,
six we just expanded our list with one. TEAM i
guess based off what they've done. RECENTLY i could be
kind and Say, wolves even THOUGH i actually think it
might be The, dubs to be honest with, you BUT
i also concede that The wolves just have something. Brewing
like almost everything that goes against, them they'll turn into
a positive, somehow some. Way they're sort of like The
pacers of The west in many. Ways, Yeah i'll give them.
That i'll give them that Six Seeds.
Speaker 1: Wolves that comments for you. More shout out B r
for having the level head on this.
Speaker 2: Podcast that's.
Speaker 1: Fair oh, Man, look he might not be. Wrong gates
will not be with the playoffs STRIKE.
Speaker 2: I, mean are are are we really that low on
the spurs in? Total what have? We you?
Speaker 1: Know what it? Is it's LIKE i just him and dear,
him like We wemby And deer And. Fox they play
a lot together last. Year there's their reliant on two
god like, really they're excellent prospects In castle And, harper
but there's still prospects all the, Same like do they
have enough shooting like like on this team in? GENERAL
i guess There's Devin, Bissell There's Keldon johnson can shoot
it pretty well for. Stretches There's Harrison barnes is. THERE
i would have felt a lot better with The spurs
if they were The Cam johnson. TEAM i can tell
you that much like that might have convinced me to
throw them in the top.
Speaker 2: SIX i think that is. Fair And i'm also not
a fan of The Luke cornett deal. NECESSARILY i think
they could have done more interesting.
Speaker 1: Stuff cornett getting more per year guaranteed Than Brook lopez
is not SOMETHING i saw.
Speaker 2: Coming, No, no and, look he's he's not. Bad LIKE
i love the rim. DEFENSE i love the fact that
he is such a smart player in terms of his shot.
SELECTION i do hope he's going to start shooting threes
again In San antonio BECAUSE i think that's where a
lot of his value, lies and if you start shooting threes,
again then perhaps IF i, SQUINT i can see the.
VISION i thought four years was a little too, long
AND i thought the money were a little too.
Speaker 1: Big BUT i think If i'm not, MISTAKEN i don't
know how. MUCH i don't know how much better you'll
feel about. This but the final year of that contract
is a team.
Speaker 2: Option now that that is at least. Better, yeah so three? Years, yeah,
yeah The west.
Speaker 1: Is BUT i can't even remember who had this. Comment
grant's gonna proud of you for talking About Golden. State,
yes thank, You. DAN i had to get My grant
quota in. There, yeah The west is gonna be a blove.
BATH i can't even remember who had the, comment but
you're absolutely right that Was that's gonna have to be
its own podcast once things settled. Down is tearing that
conference off two more teams to get To one's just
a mini. Note i'd like to pay a little homage to.
THEM i think That Charlotte hornets are being pretty opportunistic,
here like just they're able to trade vacillate after getting
him From, phoenix like To. Milwaukee to your comment in two,
seconds which you're conveying in twenty and thirty one in
twenty thirty. Two, NOW i don't think That Pat conninson's
a difference, maker but he, could in theory play for
a team that doesn't necessarily have a ton of. Wings
and now you get two seconds that are super interesting
BECAUSE i think that they're one of them Is. Milwaukee's it's,
like that's super, interesting AND i just WANT i want
to put like The nurkic trade For Sexton grant AND
i talked about are they trying to like kind of
win next. Season, no that was just pure, opportunism just
like he fell into their. Lap this is someone who
are they gonna get more than use Of nurkic in
a second round pick if they move com section at
the trade? Deadline my bet.
Speaker 2: Would be, Yes, yes.
Speaker 1: Absolutely SO i just wanted to shout out To Charlotte hornets,
again WHO i don't think they have a lot of
certainty in, place BUT i have under The Jeff Predison
Jeff peterson front. OFFICE i Know i'm a broken record
for anyone who's a loyal. LISTENER i like the process.
There it feels like it's on. POINT i didn't love
The salon pick doesn't look any better. NOW i like
the continent hppile pick for. SURE i might have just
Taken Ace belly there anyway IF i were, Them but
that's neither here nor. THERE i at least like. That
this seems like a team that knows how to be,
opportunistic that is focusing on the bigger. Picture, No Charlotte hornet's,
thought you want to get A LaMelo ball take off
before we move on to our final.
Speaker 2: Topic, NO i Think i've played in most of the hits.
Today i'm, okay BUT i agree with. YOU i agree with.
YOU i gave them a very favorable grade for That
jazz trade as. Well, look this is what they're supposed to,
do all, Right, well fuck, it let's talk About. LaMelo
he we don't know how much he's gonna, play so
have a guy Like Collin sex to just basically absorb
those minutes if he's. Injured, again that's a big. Get
that is not nothing like that is a guy who
can come in and get you eighteen twenty twenty two. Points,
see he's playing starting caliber minutes AND i, know, oh
rob points, sport but still having that, skill having that
option you can go to when you need a buck
and you can ask someone to consistently do. So and
also high efficiency. Too people don't seem to recognize. This
everyone's so busy calling a guy like him and also Like,
saclovine those guys Like chuckers all, Right Collin sexton during
his His jazz, tenure true shooting percentage over sixty as
a six to two point guard or a six two
guard off. Guard, like the efficiency is. There he's not
someone who is just jacking up shots and you, know
making like four to percent of. Them he's not a.
Speaker 1: Lamello i'm gonna let that slide and we're gonna move
on to our final, topic which actually finds semi. Interesting
So Shake. Gilders alexander signs His supermax, extension which checks
in a little bit lower than we had, thought two
hundred and eighty five point four. MILLION i, hope hopefully
that's enough money FOR sga and his. WEALTH i don't
know if it. Is his total contract value now is six,
years three hundred and sixty four point five million. Dollars
he signed through his age thirty two. Season his salary
is going to be seventy nine million in the final.
Year WHAT i FIND i mean This shay. Stuff this
was just the, easiest, single easiest decision that The thunder
had this, offseason, Right. Yep WHAT i find interesting is
when you we're now getting to a point where if
these cap projections, hold these max deals or any deal
that is signed with an eight percent raise is going
to outpace the salary cap. Growth so Like shay is
basically projected to be worth over thirty seven percent of
the salary cap by the end of this, Deal And i'm.
CURIOUS i know that sounds like a small, number but
like typically you signed him to a thirty five percent,
max and at this, rate what like they're normally worth
like twenty nine or thirty percent by the end of.
IT i don't like actually know. Offhand and now if
that value goes, UP i am. Curious this is NOT
okac is not getting rid Of Jet homegrand Or John.
Williams this is not that is.
Speaker 2: Not Getting they're getting rid Of.
Speaker 1: Shade that's where this is. Going they're gonna trade. Shit,
No i'm just curious to see how if you get
to a point where it's not eight plus percent of, growth,
like if that changes team building approaches at, all because
you do have to then worry about those out, years
because it's not just you're signing him at thirty five
percent and it was always going to be thirty five.
Percent you're used to that number going down and now it's.
Increasing so when you look at it and, say, oh
he's only worth two percent more of the salary, cap he's.
Not it's like really closer to like seven or eight
percent more of the salary. Cap, additionally not in, general
if he was worth only eight percent of the salary,
cap he'd Be Kenrich. Williams, basically you.
Speaker 2: Might have to tell our viewers and listeners why his
salary can exceed the thirty five percent.
Speaker 1: Max what do you mean THOUGHT i just? Did he
gets eight percent raises and the cap off his max.
Speaker 2: Salary OH i THOUGHT i actually thought you skirted over.
Speaker 1: That, yeah, well and again MAYBE i was just. Rambling so,
like this is a little bit into the, weeds And
i'm sure some people appreciate, it some people. Don't but
so shake Ya tungxander signs his thirty five percent of
the salary cap max. Contract your capped in, theory like
YOUR mac salary is capped at that thirty five percent
of the salary. Cap but you get raises off of.
That his raises are going to be eight percent year
over year right off the base, salary off the base,
Salary so it's eight percent of that thirty of that
initial salary in the first year of his.
Speaker 2: Deal right when.
Speaker 1: The cap that's not a. Problem but when the cap
is only increasing by a projected like seven percent or
six percent rather than ten, percent he has his salary
then goes. Up he's actually accounting for a larger percentage
of the salary, cap which that does impact team building.
Mechanisms and again With shay, specifically especially the. Timeline this his.
Prime he's still going to be in the middle of
it when this. Ends and so it's not Will shade
be worth this? Contract, no that's not what this is.
About it's just as this becomes more common around the
league and the salary cap projections could. Hold i'm just
very interested to see if it changes approaches at all.
Speaker 2: Here, right it's going to be a fascinating, thing just
the annual, races because we heavily expected it will be
ten percent throughout basically the ENTIRE. Cpa now where it
is coming in seven, percent but that do we know
how far out that? Is is that is it projected
to be seven percent year over year or is it
just next season that's like in danger of coming in.
Speaker 1: LOWER i think it's the out years as, well because
the fact that he is worth so like as of right,
now shaz is meant to be thirty seven and a
half percent of the salary cap in, two thirty, two
and thirty. One SO i THINK i wonder if automatically
those projections just assume static. Growth, oh it's seven percent next,
year so now it's going to continue to rise by seven.
Speaker 2: Percent you know what's gonna be really messy is if
there are some years where's the full, ten then some
it's like six or seven, percent then it goes back to.
Ten it'll be like that will be just so tough
just FOR nba teams to navigate in let alone us
who sit behind a, microphone that's gonna be hell.
Speaker 1: Where where if it's. Vacillating but like that was kind
of the before they had the caps moving, Effect like
And i'm, wondering like it's just it's just something to
put a pin. In it's not going to impact the.
Thunder their core is going to remain, together but this
is something to put a pin in at a time
when like you're kind of already putting a pin. In,
okay how is team spending changing in the era of The?
Aprons AND i, think, look a lot of people have
come away thinking that the middle class wasn't hurt and
that this summer proves. IT i guess they're, right but
it also just feels like they a lot of them
just got paid by their own. Teams like we saw
something like Ty, jerome okay Left, cleveland but like the
quote unquote middle, CLASS i felt like a lot of
them just went back to their teams or like you
see guys leaving Like Ersan yabuseli left for The mini
Mle SO i don't really.
Speaker 2: Know tijerome didn't even get said million a.
Speaker 1: Year, yeah, no you got the room, exception and so
like maybe you just, View, Okay Ti jerome wasn't worth
any more than. That it's just something to put a
pin in at a time where and also these. Numbers
someone pointed this. OUT i think it Was Jared. DUBIN
i know that these salaries need to be conveyed in
terms of cat, percentages which we just did With. Shays
that being, said it's just like you're gonna get to
a point where you've mentioned where the money is gonna
be so much that it doesn't, matter and we're gonna
see someone take. Less i'm just wondering does that point,
come and if, so when does it? Come BUT i
also sort of WONDER i don't think the discourse around
THE nba is gonna get any better when you start
to see these raw, Numbers like If Anthony edwards as right,
now AND i think because the cat projections are, changing he,
won't but he was in line to be the NBA's
first one hundred million dollars a year. Player when you
look at the way that extensions will game, OUT i
just feel like once you see players making eighty million
dollars a year or, something and then there's still gonna
be to talk about load management or the length of,
SCHEDULE i feel like there's the potential for THE nba
discourse to somehow deteriorate even.
Speaker 2: FURTHER i didn't even know that was. Possible great on
that uplifting note by. Everyone great, well Thanks.
Speaker 1: Dan don't you see Where i'm because, right like these numbers,
ARE i know we have to view them in terms
of percentage of the cap like eighty million bucks a
year is, like that's.
Speaker 2: Look our mutual Buddy Brian sappork has made this point
for years. Now he's absolutely. Right eventually something like a
player is gonna look, look, no we actually have Seen Jalen,
brunson for, example say look that it's an enormous amount of.
Money i'm okay not taking like the full. Max i'm
okay not going that. Route so the question is are
there going to be more players who do? This AND
i hope it's the stars because like they still earn
a ton and if some of that money will be
like redistributed to the midsier guys or even the low end, guys.
Speaker 1: Like let you keep a cord, Together, yeah for. Sure
it's AGAIN i don't like giving like the owners a
built thing top out, Though so it's like it's a
very tricky. Situation but AND i think we will always
try to, remember like the numbers are the, numbers and,
look the reporting on them is never going to. Change THE,
nfl don't they STILL i don't, KNOW i don't really
follow it that closely, Anymore like they still report the
entire contract value rather than just what's.
Speaker 2: GUARANTEED i feel like they do. Both like now the
coverage is so like PLAYER x assigned for fifty for
three million with twenty seven million. Guaranteed so, okay that's.
Speaker 1: GOOD i will say it probably becomes a little bit
more difficult unless the agent is sending shams as information of,
oh look like this is what the percentage of the
salary cap, is.
Speaker 2: And Then schams is gonna make sure he breaks it
into four different, tweets and then if you don't catch
all four of, them you have no idea what the
fuck is going? On, yep, right, Right.
Speaker 1: So just something to. Monitor But, shay this was an
easy decision for The. THUNDER i Expect jdubb and Chet
holmgrin to soon follow. Suit right, more anything else you
want to talk about before we get, Out we said
we were going to do in an, hour so true to,
form we did about twice that.
Speaker 2: Much we did about. Twice, No i'm just curious that's
What Frank lilakina is going to get on his things.
Speaker 1: DEAL i, mean he's got to be the NBA's first
one hundred million dollars a, Year like they're going to
circumvest the salary cap rules to play.
Speaker 2: Him, yeah, right to pay it that, much you'll.
Speaker 1: Have an ownership steak under the table with whoever signs.
Speaker 2: HIM i think, So like The lakers just sold for ten,
billions what how how big of an ownership?
Speaker 1: Stake he'll get probably ten percent of the, team, RIGHT
i would, think, right that feels.
Speaker 2: Fair it seems that seems.
Speaker 1: Reasonable absolutely before we S, cadato can you tell everyone who's,
watching who's, listening where they can find.
Speaker 2: You and all the work that you, Do, yes, sir
you can find out work over at jah Who, sports
over To hoorbes and THE ump podcast and a yak
chips that they speak gash.
Speaker 1: Plus ro until next. Time and as always we would
just shout out to one the only the NBA's first
one billion dollar a year player in the bank, game
mister what's his? Name Work Frank indian