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Speaker 1: A prominent Christian nationalist pastor who became popular for teaching

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that women should be subservient to men and not have

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the right to vote unless they vote for whoever their

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husband votes for. Just originally give a sermon declaring what

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is perhaps the most vileclaim made by the pulpit in

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this modern era. Dal Partridge has said, the Hamites have

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been assigned to a civilization station of subordination and dependence.

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And the answer to this paradigm is not endless foreign money.

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That's not the answer to this problem. The answer is

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to return to European Christian colonization of African nations. I

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believe that's truly the answer. It's the only thing that

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has historically worked, that has shown fruit. Now, some history

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nerds here in the audience might find this quote to

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be somewhat familiar. That's because it's yearly similar to a

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quote from Jefferson Davis. Yes, that Jefferson Davis, the president

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of the Confederacy who used the Bible as justification for

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enslaving the African people. In his speech, he defended slavery,

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saying who gave them the right to decide that it's

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a sin? By what standard? Did they measure it, not

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the Constitution. The Constitution recognizes property in many forms and

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imposes obligations in connection with that recognition. Not the Bible

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it justifies it. Not the good of society. For if

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they go where it exists, they find that society recognizes

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it as good. What then is their standard? The good

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of mankind? Is that seen in the diminished resources of

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the country. Is that seen in the diminished comfort of

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the world, or is it not the reverse exhibited? Is

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it in the cause of Christianity? It cannot be, for

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servitude is the only agency through which Christianity has reached

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the degraded race, the only means by which they have

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been civilized and elevated. Now there are some here who

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might object to such a quote. However, nothing this pastor

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has said, nor nothing Jefferson Davis said, would go against

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the Bible's teaching. In fact, it would seem that they're

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mostly reading the Bible as faithfully as they can. Other

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than that, the problem that we find here is that

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these are just vile men using a vile book written

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by other vile men two thousand years ago to enable

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file men today to continue being vile. That's the fatal

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flaw with religion. No doctrine, no teaching, no violence can

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ever be condemned as long as people think it's coming

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from their God. So in response, I believe atheists are

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fair when we ask, what is the proof that you're

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slave loving, woman hating God even exists? And because we're

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a fair we're giving you the opportunity to provide such evidence.

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The lines are open and the show starts now. Bok

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been friends. Today is July the twelfth, twenty twenty six,

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and I'm joined by my good friend today, the cross Examiner.

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How you doing, buddy, It's been a while since we've

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been able to connect over here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. It's been a couple of months

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at least. How how are you doing? What are you

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up to?

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Speaker 1: You know what, I I have no complaints. I'm mostly

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doing what we're about to do here, getting to a

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debate whether or not God exists. And this might come

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as a chaker to you, having done many debates since

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you and I crossed paths last time. No one's provided

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any evidence yet?

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Speaker 3: Wait what none?

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Speaker 2: I thought like it was almost obvious enough to just

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look at the trees and just be convinced.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I did, go for a walk

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in the woods. We got finally got good weather where

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I live, which is hard to do, and I went

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for a walk and nearly converted. Thankful miss. I saw

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some rocks and they weren't crying out, and I figured, okay,

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it must not be true.

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Speaker 2: Well I saw some rocks and they reminded me of watches,

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and I thought, there's a watchmaker and a rock maker.

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It seemed all that, you know, intelligent design. It seems

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to be convinced. I guess I just don't have enough faith.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly what it is. If only you would just

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blindly believe stuff without thinking and using your brain, then

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you'd be fine. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, That's what I've been told many times is people

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we have these conversations, and I'd be eager to talk

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to anybody who'd like to participate in this and show

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me that this doesn't this isn't where you end up.

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But I've had many many calls where people end up

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in that space of well, it's faith. It's either faith

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or my own personal experience that I then interpret through faith.

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Speaker 3: But at its core, it's.

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Speaker 2: This faith, And to quote Matt Dillon, Hunting, faith is

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the reason that people give when they don't have a

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good it's the excuse they have to believe something where

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they don't have a good reason, they don't have sufficient evidence.

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And the more I talk to people, the more I

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think that's the fallback position. You know, as soon as

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they wave the white flag of faith, it's a surrender.

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And if you add that word blind that you added,

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it can be upsetting to some people. But I've yet

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to be convinced that it is not blind. And then

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sometimes they will quote you can probably quote it verbatim

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with your knowledge of the scripture. But you know, faith

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is the something something and the things not seeing and

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all of that which seems to encourage people to have

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blind faith, not seeing things and having faith that they exist.

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So I'd love to be proven wrong. I love good

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conversations where people make me think and make me question

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my presuppositions and my assumptions and my accumulated experience on

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this planet. So I'd love to I'd love to have

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some people call in, Oh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And Hebrews eleven one is what you're

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quoting from, and it's a it's a wild quote because

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when I was in church, they would quote this a lot,

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and you know, faith is the evidence of things unseen

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and the assurance of things hope for. But that's like,

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it's such a weird thing to say, because how does

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faith become evidence of anything in the In the church,

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they think that faith is something that comes from God,

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and so if you have faith, then that itself is

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a sign that God is working through you. But that's

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such a circular argument, like you can have anything, it's

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not as evidence.

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Speaker 2: And then if you move even further down the line

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of where people get that defensive belief, if you use

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logic to discuss it, you therefore admit that there is

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a God, because logic can't exist without God. So, you know,

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the presuppositionalists or the Jordan Peterson's of the world, who

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will who will say, Aha, you've got some pretext or

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context or presupposition that you're dealing with and you just

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won't admit it, Whereas in reality they can't grasp the

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fact that I can just have a preference for my

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moral system or my preference for good versus evil, and

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that doesn't have to come from anywhere.

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Speaker 3: So but I'm open to being proved on.

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Speaker 1: That's actually an interesting point because the amount of times

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that the moral argument comes up for God basically where

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do your roles come from? And then it turns into

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like this debate over whether or not God exists because

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we don't have some sort of foundation for objective morality,

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which is, to me, it's kind of weird because it

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assumes that there is objective morality, which I've never heard them.

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I've never heard a competent argument for why I would

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believe there are objective morals. And they'll say, like, well,

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you behave as though there are objective morals. I don't

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who's you who are you talking to? I know that

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they're not objective. I don't act like they're objective. That's

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why when I talk about like slavery and different things

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like that, I'll ask the caller, the Christian or whoever

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they are, said, what do you think do you think

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that it's always wrong to own slaves? Do you think

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that's always wrong to sexually assault a woman? Or to

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kidnap prisoners in war? And I'll get them to commit.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying to force my framework on you. What

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I'm helping you to understand is that your framework is contradictory.

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You think it's wrong, which is why when I ask

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you if it's wrong, you say it's wrong. You don't.

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You don't equivocate until I show you in the Bible

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where the Bible is. Then things get dicey. So yeah,

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but the moral arguments of it's a wild one. I've

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never understand how that became popular other than you know, C. S.

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Speaker 2: Lewis liked it, right, yes, yes, And I've been over

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the last year or two as he's risen in popularity.

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And I'm not talking about cshus Dan McClellan. I really

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like the terminology he uses where that happens. It's probably

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a term of art in his in his academic sphere.

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But renegotiating with the text or negotiating with the text

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is really what they're going on. It's like I think scripture,

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I think slavery is wrong, and then you know, let

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me flip flip flip here here, here, here, here, here

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are all the blades that the Bible endorses slavery, and

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then there's this renegotiation. Oh well, what about these these

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parts that say don't kidnap people? And what about these

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parts that say, you know, Israelis can't be slaves or

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you know, and then you have to sort of work

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with them as they renegotiate with the text as to

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what the words on the page actually mean. Oh, it's

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chattel slavery versus whatever slavery, and like it's just this.

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I feel bad sometimes, like unless they're jerks and they're

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over confident, But for people who are really struggling with it,

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I do feel bad because it's you can watch the

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brain do these resolve?

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Speaker 3: The cognitive dissonance of God is love.

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Speaker 2: All the things I learned in Sunday School about you know,

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the lambs and coziness and happy and singing songs is

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what God is. And here I am seeing that He's

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telling me to throw babies against rocks and kill every

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child in a city. And it's it's not only okay

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to own slaves, but it's part of you know, I

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want it to be part of the economy. And I'm

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going to differentiate with foreigners. You can you can do

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whatever you want with them, like they that's got to

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be a shock if you've never read your Bible. It's

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got to be a shock because I say that online

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or I say that to somebody, and the immediate response

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is you're a liar, it doesn't say that, or you

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don't understand. And I just see that as that reaction

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of being exposed to information that they didn't have before.

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Speaker 1: That's that's really it. And you know, you have one

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of two pathways when you're reading the Bible or someone

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reads it to you and you're confrontings confronted with something awful,

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like you can say, oh, hey, that's kind of awful,

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you know, let me I need to go think about that,

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or you can go right into cope mode, which is like, oh,

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it doesn't mean that. Words don't mean words obviously, well

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if you read it in the original language, even though

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they don't know the original languages. And it's it's wild

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how many people can't just pause and be like, Okay,

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that sounded really bad. I need to go take a

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look at that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Or they say if English was good enough

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for Jesus, it's good enough for me.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: That's why I alway read the King James Bible.

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Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. Don't get me started.

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Speaker 1: Well, friends, we're going to get going on the show.

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I got some announcements. The number to call in is

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five one, two nine nine two four to two or

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you can use the web caller ACA dot Show Forward

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slash call, which I believe is for non Americans. I

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think if you're not in USA or Canada, I think

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you can use the web caller. You can also, by

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the way, use TikTok. We are streaming to TikTok. We've

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got two streams over on YouTube. We got one going

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to TikTok. Now, if you request up on TikTok, we

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should be able to get you in the guest queue

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from TikTok, so you don't have to use the link

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or the phone number on the screen if you're watching

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us over on TikTok Land. The Atheists Experience is a

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product of the Atheist Community of Boston, a five oh

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As many as you want, in fact donations, and no,

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it also helps you too. And remember these shows are

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in fact the crowd funded. It's because of viewers like

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you that we can do these shows. It's kind of

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like the opposite of the other type of media that

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you seem so often supporting Christian nationalism, where they're getting

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large amounts of money from goofy sources that are illegitimate

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or from foreign actors. Everything you're going to see in

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here are actual hosts giving their actual opinions. Because we're

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funded by the audience. We only exist because y'all are

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here supporting our work, and so we greatly appreciate that

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that people are here allowing the show to be completely

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free of negative influences, and the hosts like Garm and

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I can actually just say what's up. We don't have

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to worry about messing up advertisement or advertiser relationships.

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Speaker 2: Did you hear that Justin, you and I are getting raise.

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We're getting a three hundred percent raise.

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Speaker 1: Oh I did hear about that?

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Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, we're now instead of a zero dollars, we're

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getting zero dollars. So that's my attempt at here to

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emphasize what Justin's saying. None of us here are paid.

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We're all volunteers. We do this to really help spread

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the word push back against you know, Christian nationalism, and

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really try to just talk to people about their fear

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of losing their faith as a huge barrier, fears of hell,

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fears of losing their community. I have spoken to a

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lot of people who we were or are not on

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this show, but in private, they'll come to you and

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they'll say, you know, I appreciate what you're doing. I

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can't come out. They'll use the terms of being in

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the closet. And these will be you know, people that

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go to church every Sunday with their families and they

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can't say what they want to say for fear of

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retribution or shunning. And I think that speaks poorly of

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the religious system itself, but I also makes my heart break.

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So if you want to talk to us about that

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or anything else, please do feel free to call us,

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because we're just here to help. We're just here to listen.

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We're here to talk and to argue if you want

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to argue points in a healthy way. But we're not

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here to make money. We're all volunteers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And a lot of people don't realize We've

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got a lot of hosts here from like very diverse

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background see your background is in law, correct, My background

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was in engineering and Bible stuff, and so.

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Speaker 2: Bible, he says, as the resident expert who could probably

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and did on this show just like ten minutes ago,

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just quote you know, chapter and verse. He's the Bible

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stuff guy. So don't cut yourself short.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate it. But we've got a lot of great guests.

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If you watched the rotation, you'll see a lot of

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people up here with some expertise. And so if you're

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not a believer, we do take still calls, as Gram said,

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for people that are deconstructing, people that are having questions.

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I remember back in twenty seventeen was about the year

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I made the realization that I wasn't just like not

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a Christian anymore, I was actually just an atheist. And

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I remember watching AXP, and there's a I always I

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used to hate when we got like friendly callers on XP.

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I was watching XP even when I was still a

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believer because it was so much fun. Yeah, because, believe

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it or not, the academic community and the atheist community

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have a lot more in common when it comes to

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biblical studies. When people realize. But so I watched XP

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for a long time and I remember when I first

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became a non believer. I was really when I really

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figured out I was an atheist. I started to actually

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kind of enjoy some of the callers that were like

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deconstructing and trying to figure stuff out, because it's like,

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where else are you going to turn? Like your pastor's

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not going to talk to you. Your friends and family

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a lot of times aren't going to.

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Speaker 4: Talk to you.

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Speaker 1: But you know what, the ACA would take your call,

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and there was a lot of times people would call

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it in and they had the exact same question I

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was going to ask. I was like, yes, I need

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this is question I need answered, right, Yeah, So if

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you're not a believer, we will take your call for sure.

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We obviously this is a kind of a dialogue based show,

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so we you know, we try to take the non

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believers as primary. However, the or try to take the

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believers as primary, but the non believers will also be

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taking as well. If you've got a question, and if

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you don't have questions, I'll probably bring up some questions

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with Graham. I've got some legal questions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that I can echo that story. I

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was never what I would call actually religious, maybe when

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I was in my young teens, like twelve or eleven,

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I went to a we lived in South Carolina, Charleston,

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South Carolina, because my dad was in the Navy, and

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we got scholarships to a private school that was Episcopalian,

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so Catholic, light private school called Porter Gowd down in Charleston,

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same one Stephen Colbert went to, by the.

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Speaker 3: Way, he was a year or two.

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Speaker 2: Again me, Yeah, he's a big Charleston figure. But it

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was religious, and so back then, I you know, we

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all had to participate in you know, lighting the candles

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on the altar or reading a scripture a chapel and

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stuff like that. So back then I might have just

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it's asked, do you believe there's a God? I probably

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would have said yes. But after that I really didn't

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have any beliefs. So, you know, when I got into

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my mid to late teens and started sort of doing

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some research, I'm like, oh, I thought there was more

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to it than this. It really is just these stories,

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and I sort of decided, okay, whatever. And then when

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I started when I found the atheists experience and started

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listening to it, I was like, you I started really

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enjoying the believers and sort of you know, backseat or

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sofa quarterbacking the argument and it's trying to, you know,

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say what my argument would be. While they would they

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would talk, and I dismissed sort of the hey, I'm

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here to call I'm having problems, my parents want to

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kick me out of the house, whatever it would be.

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I sayt like, ah, I'm not as interested in that.

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But over time those have become very important to me

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because those people are in real pain and are in

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a spot where their life is potentially going to change

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in major ways. And if somebody calls up and they've

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got their heels dug in, it's entertaining, but it doesn't

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you know, the person listening. We'll get something out of

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the argument. That's why I do this is me arguing

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with a diehard believer who's just going to keep repeating

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things and not respond to your criticisms or critiques. I'm

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not trying to change their amount. I'm trying to change

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the listeners. But having somebody to call in every once

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in a while that is really on the fence or

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is an atheist but is having problems that I feel

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like we can do a lot of good there too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think so we do have. I think

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we've got one already waiting in the queue, and we've

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got one in the screening room. So let me grab

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our first guest. It looks like it's going to be

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Anne calling from California, and I'm not sure if Ann

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is a believer or not, but we'll get Anne up,

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as our first caller says, curious about the Bible history,

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who wrote it and what was intention or what was

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the intention? So welcome to XPN. How you doing well?

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Speaker 5: I'd be better if I didn't break my ankle the

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other day, but other than that, I'm okay. How are

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you guys?

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Speaker 3: Do it better than you?

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Speaker 2: I think? How did you break the ale where you

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you were a superhero stopping crime in a in a

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fight or did you just trip?

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Speaker 5: I just well, I was walking to my front door

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to go outside to check the mail, and my flip

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flop gave way under my foot and I came down

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on my right foot and I broke a little bone

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in there and I almost blew my left knee out

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on the way down too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, I hope it heals quickly.

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Speaker 3: I do too.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 5: The reason for my call is I. I've been watching

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these shows for around a year and a half to

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two years now, and I've been atheists for a while,

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but I have gotten much more curious about science and

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the Bible. And I grew up Catholic, so I was

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never really that curious about the Bible. But then when

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I started watching these shows them, I started thinking, well,

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who wrote the Bible? Like why did they write it?

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Was it supposed to be like a religious text to

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tell people how to live? And then I always heard Matthew, Mark, Luke,

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and John. That wasn't their real names, And I don't

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know if you know who they are.

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Speaker 6: Just for starters, I'm going.

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Speaker 2: To just sit back and cross my arms and Justin

401
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you are you are? You are calling the right person.

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Justin is going to educate both of us.

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Speaker 5: Oh yes, I love.

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Speaker 6: I knew I was calling the.

405
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Speaker 1: Right person, so I appreciate it. So you've probably been

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told by Christians that Moses wrote the tour will start

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to begetting there's a good reason to believe that that's

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not the case. I'm going to give you a couple

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of reasons why not only is it not the case,

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but to me, I think it'd be silly to think

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that Moses wrote the tour, and then we can talk

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about who probably did actually write the Torah. So there's

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these things in academia we refer to as anachronisms, and

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anachronisms are things that are basically out of place temporally. So,

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for example, in Genesis fourteen, it says that Abraham, when

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he was at war basically helping his nephew a lot,

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he chased the armies as far north as the tribe

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of Dan, or the territory of Dan. The problem with

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this is that in the time of Abraham, the territory

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of Dan didn't exist. Now you might say, oh, well,

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maybe it existed when Moses was writing, and so Moses

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just wrote the territory of Dan. Well it didn't exist

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then either. The territory of Dan, it didn't exist until

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three hundred and forty years after Movis died, So that

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tribe originally wasn't a tribe until after Moses died. Then

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Joshua went into the Promised Land, and then they settled

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near the land of Philistine or the Philistines, and almost

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they couldn't get a hold of the territory. Some three

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hundred years after that fighting to get control of the land,

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they failed, so they moved all the way north by

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the Erinians. And so that means even Moses couldn't have written, hey,

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that Abraham chased him as far as the tribe of Dan.

433
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It wouldn't have happened. We've got a lot of instances

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like that in the Torah. In Deuteronomy, it narrates Moses's

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own death. Everything in the Torah would have been written

436
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in third person if it's about Moses. Moses writes about

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himself writing It says Moses wrote down this. So Moses

438
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is saying in the third person that he wrote this

439
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down in It's just a nonsensical turn of events. It

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also says in Deuteronomy Deuteromian in numbers, it says that

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Moses was the most humble man to have ever lived.

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It's a nonsensical thing to write if you're Moses. And

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then we've got other stuff. There's like a dozen passages

444
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that say something akin to when the Israelites were on

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the eastern side of the Jordan. Wait a minute, what

446
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do you mean, Well, they were on the eastern side

447
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of a Jordan when Moses was alive. They crossed over

448
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after Moses died. Right, So if somebody is writing and

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they're saying, hey, when the Israelites were on the eastern side,

450
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well that could only be a statement you could make if,

451
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in fact, you were already on the western side of

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the Jordan, which wouldn't have happened until Moses was already dead.

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Speaker 2: And somebody awarded somebody a ceremonial sword at the first

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first Battle of bull Run in the Civil War, well

455
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you would only call it the first Battle of bull

456
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Run if there had already been a second. Thank you

457
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Encyclopedia Brown for that example, if anybody who used to

458
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read those books. But anyway, it's a great example.

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Speaker 1: It's fantastic. And there's other ones. There's statements in the

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Torah like until this day implying that there was something

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true of Moses's time that is now still true today.

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And there's some that on the nose are like really crazy.

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So in Deudo Army thirty four says Moses, a servant

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servant in the Lord, died in the land of Moab,

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and the Lord, as Lord commanded, he buried him in

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the valley in the land of Moab, opposite beth Pure,

467
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and no one knows his burial place until this day. Wait,

468
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what Moses wrote? That nobody knows Moses's burial place until

469
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this day? That's that's really the thing you think Moses wrote.

470
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And so there's too many instances inside of the Torah

471
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that would just lead somebody to believe that it would

472
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be asinine for this to be the case. The other

473
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thing is we've got huge historical issues. For example, in

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the end of Genesis, begin of Exodus Extra chapter one

475
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:31,039
basically intimates that Ramsey's was the pharaoh, so it says

476
00:24:31,079 --> 00:24:33,400
that they built the storehouses of Pitham and Ramsey's it

477
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,960
says that they lived in the land of Ramsey's, referring

478
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,160
to Ramses a second. Ramsey's the first only reigned for

479
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,559
like two or three years. Ramsey's the second was the

480
00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:43,920
one who was known for building the storehouses. He reigned

481
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,720
longest out of all the Ramseys. He's one of the

482
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,119
only Ramseys that gets known for anything. But that can't

483
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,000
be the case because in the Bible First King six

484
00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:55,200
it says that the Exodus was four hundred and eighty

485
00:24:55,279 --> 00:24:58,519
years prior to the building of Solomon's temple, which means

486
00:24:58,839 --> 00:25:02,160
the Exodus happened to hundred years before Ramsey's was in power.

487
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,000
So there's just so many things that wouldn't make sense.

488
00:25:05,079 --> 00:25:09,480
How is it that Moses wrote down that they built

489
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,559
the storehouses Epithom in Ramsey's and then later in the

490
00:25:13,599 --> 00:25:17,240
same book that is Breathed by God, it literally says

491
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,559
something that would make that impossible, that they already left

492
00:25:20,599 --> 00:25:23,720
Egypt two hundred years before Ramsey's was there. There's just

493
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,599
some stuff that doesn't add up. It can't work, And

494
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,599
so to me, mosaic authorship is silly now when we're

495
00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:32,759
talking about the real authorship of the Torah. And then

496
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,160
maybe we would say some of the Dutero canonical books

497
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,599
or not due to chrononicals, some of the deuteronimistic books

498
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:43,920
like Kings, perhaps even Samuel definitely like Ruth and Judges,

499
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,200
and possibly Joshua Well actually meant all of Judges. But

500
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,079
we've got this weird thing where we find sources that

501
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,599
have different vocabulary and they show up a lot. So

502
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,839
the traditional authorship of the first portion of the Bible

503
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,960
is described as the document and hypothesis. There's different forms

504
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,920
of it. That's not important. Basically, the documentary hypothesis is

505
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,359
suggesting that there was northern tribes that had their own

506
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,359
collection of stories, and then there were southern collections in

507
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,279
Judea and like Benjamin that had their stories, and then

508
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,720
they eventually merged. And then later we had others adding

509
00:26:23,759 --> 00:26:26,599
to the corpus of biblical literature, like the priestly class,

510
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,920
and then eventually the deuteronomist. The Deuteronomist most likely lived

511
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,400
at the time of Jeremiah and his father Helkaya. That's

512
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,599
a different story how we know that. Nevertheless, the reality

513
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,319
is we've got multiple strains of literature that all eventually

514
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,440
found its way together at one period and then another period,

515
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,519
and then there were editors along the way they said, hey,

516
00:26:47,559 --> 00:26:49,799
let's stitch them together here, let's stitch them together there.

517
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,480
And it's very easy to find these sources once you

518
00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:54,839
start reading them. Even in English, you can find them.

519
00:26:54,839 --> 00:26:58,079
For example, you'll find sections that are very thematic. You'll

520
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,200
hear God's name as God rather than yahweh, and then

521
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,640
you'll hear this discussion about God showing up in a dream.

522
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,480
And then you'll hear talk of like a promise of

523
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,880
to Jacob, and then like later you hear a similar story,

524
00:27:14,279 --> 00:27:17,680
except it's not in a dream and the name is Yahweh. Like,

525
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,759
wait a minute, this sounds like the same damn story

526
00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:23,200
but different details. Yeah, the two traditions in the north

527
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,920
and the South had roughly a similar tradition, and they

528
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,119
wrote them down the way that they remembered the story,

529
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,519
and so you know, one came from the north, one

530
00:27:31,559 --> 00:27:34,880
came from the south. The northern texts probably are the oldest.

531
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,640
But the unfortunate thing is the redactors, the ones who

532
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,160
put the text together, were the Judeans. The northern tribes

533
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,480
were already wiped out by the Assyrians by the time

534
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,400
the books were already being assembled, So what we read

535
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,480
in the Bible is essentially a Judean revision of the

536
00:27:51,519 --> 00:27:55,119
ancient literature of the Hebrews. And so those are kind

537
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,839
of the sources like Leviticus. A lot of those legal

538
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,279
codes came from even after those first two strains by

539
00:28:02,319 --> 00:28:05,960
the priestly class, and then even after that around the

540
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,559
same time, maybe around the beginning or end of the exile,

541
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,200
you'll start finding texts that are attributed to the deuteronomist

542
00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:18,519
and these are texts that are designed at reforming the

543
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,119
nation and giving a revisionist history of what's going on.

544
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,960
Then you've got later texts like Chronicles, which is trying

545
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,319
to retell the story again at a much later time

546
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:34,599
period with even more revisions. And then you've got the profits. Personally,

547
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,680
I think some of the profits came even before the Torah.

548
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,279
I think that Isaiah. I think, well, not all of Isaiah,

549
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,839
just like the first say, the first thirty four chapters

550
00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:51,960
minus chapter fourteen, probably came prior to the composition of

551
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,960
the Torah at large. Same thing with as Amos's most

552
00:28:57,039 --> 00:29:00,400
likely Amos and Hosea probably the earliest written source we

553
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,400
have incomplete that seems to be pretty well attested to

554
00:29:05,839 --> 00:29:08,640
from what we find in the text. And then we've

555
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,680
got like additions, late editions. So for example, you'll find

556
00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:15,960
in Hebrew in the Torah and in other books, we'll

557
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,079
find like the word for son in Hebrews typically ben,

558
00:29:19,359 --> 00:29:21,920
but you'll find another word bar, Like wait a minute, moment,

559
00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:23,960
is the word for sun bar or ben? We need

560
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,079
to We didn't nail this one down. What reality is

561
00:29:26,119 --> 00:29:30,319
It's both the word for son in traditionally Hebrew was ben,

562
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,000
but in the Aramic period when Ara mak speaking kind

563
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,400
of took over, they adopted bar, and so you'll find

564
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,359
even in early portions of the Bible, you'll see the

565
00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:43,279
word bar show up, and you're like, oh, well, because

566
00:29:43,319 --> 00:29:46,400
this portion was edited by somebody a thousand years later,

567
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,759
that's why who had ara Maic influences. So that's why

568
00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:52,839
it's a little bit difficult to say this came from

569
00:29:52,839 --> 00:29:54,599
this time period and that came from that time period,

570
00:29:54,599 --> 00:29:58,559
because they've all been interweaved together at different points in

571
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,920
time than like some of the late writings of the

572
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,400
Old Testament, like Daniel Daniels was written in the second

573
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,119
century during the Antiopan Crisis. You can clearly tell this

574
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,920
because of the form of Hebrew it's writ in. It's

575
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,079
written in late stage Aramaic, and we would say has

576
00:30:14,119 --> 00:30:16,920
many in Hebrew, or you might refer to it as

577
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,160
like mission ake Hebrew. It's a form of Hebrew that

578
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:24,319
was popularized after the Hasminian dynasty gained victory over the Greeks,

579
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,559
and so like, well, we wouldn't expect this language in

580
00:30:27,599 --> 00:30:30,279
the text if it was prior to this period. Plus,

581
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,720
it gets all the predictions predictions correct about Antiochus, which

582
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,839
is what the prophecy is about. It gets the Anticus

583
00:30:38,359 --> 00:30:41,480
predictions like super on the head, and then when it

584
00:30:41,519 --> 00:30:43,599
gets to the part where how he dies, it starts

585
00:30:43,599 --> 00:30:45,680
flubbing all that stuff, all the stuff that's going to

586
00:30:45,759 --> 00:30:49,359
happen after Antiochus he gets wrong because it was written

587
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,880
during the Antiochan revolt. So that's how we can date

588
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,240
some of the stuff, like Daniel. And then you've got

589
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,079
some other stuff that it's hard to tell, like Zachariah

590
00:30:59,119 --> 00:31:02,519
and even Jeremiah. Jeremiah started in six oh five, and

591
00:31:03,319 --> 00:31:06,960
we know for sure there was three different portions of Jeremiah.

592
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,640
The last two portions seem to be added to Jeremiah.

593
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,839
It's unclear if the second portion was partially added by Jeremiah.

594
00:31:14,039 --> 00:31:17,000
The third portion certainly seems to not be added by Jeremiah.

595
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:19,000
We also know from the Dead Sea Scurorells and elsewhere

596
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,799
that Jeremiah, even proper Jeremiah, like the first twenty five chapters,

597
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,559
was being edited even into the period of the Dead Sea.

598
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:31,519
The Dead Sea scrolls, we find large divergencies between proper

599
00:31:31,599 --> 00:31:34,839
Jeremiah in like the Proto Mesoretic Script and what we

600
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,359
will find in like the Greek septuagen and in some

601
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,200
of the Dead Sea squirrells like chapter seven, we'll find

602
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,039
in every manuscript is either out of order or if

603
00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:46,599
some of it's missing, or it'd be added later. So

604
00:31:47,319 --> 00:31:49,640
we know for a fact that these documents were being

605
00:31:49,759 --> 00:31:53,039
edited for a long time after they were supposedly complete,

606
00:31:53,039 --> 00:31:56,160
because we've got the manuscript evidence of it. When it

607
00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,359
comes to the Gospels, the Gospels probably came after the

608
00:32:00,359 --> 00:32:04,319
Paul most likely wrote in the fifties early sixties. It

609
00:32:04,359 --> 00:32:06,720
seems to be the case based on what we know

610
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,720
from the way he wrote, what he wrote about, and

611
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,079
who he was addressing, and how he was addressing them.

612
00:32:14,079 --> 00:32:16,319
It seems like the authentic letters of Paul were probably

613
00:32:16,319 --> 00:32:20,359
written in the fifties and early sixties, and then after

614
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,720
seventy we probably got Mark Mark. If Mark wrote Mark,

615
00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:26,920
it's John Mark, the cousin of Barnabas. You'll hear that

616
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,119
connection and class in this chapter four. And then Matthew

617
00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:32,519
and Luke copied mostly from Mark and then added some

618
00:32:32,559 --> 00:32:34,400
of their own material. And then they also had a

619
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,759
common source called q that they copied into their gospels,

620
00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:40,960
and then after that came the Gospel of John. There

621
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,799
are some scholars who think that Luke was being added

622
00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:48,240
to and edited even after John was already compiled. There

623
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,200
are some scholars who think that John was being edited

624
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,240
even after the first couple editions. So, for example, like

625
00:32:54,319 --> 00:32:57,559
Joseph feene Ford, who was a professor at Notre Dame,

626
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,640
went through great length in her commentary in the Yale

627
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,000
Anchor series to detail how she thinks she can tell

628
00:33:04,039 --> 00:33:07,359
that there are multiple layers of authorship in the Book

629
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,680
of Revelation, and so it's none of it's clear cut.

630
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,960
There's always guesses. And then there's other books like Second Peter.

631
00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:16,079
Second Peter is obviously a forgery in the name of

632
00:33:16,079 --> 00:33:18,839
Peter that came super late, maybe not even in the

633
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,160
first century. And we've got a text like James that

634
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:27,319
clearly came out after the Pauline corpus, specifically to combat

635
00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:31,319
the Pauline corpus. And then we've got the unauthentic letters

636
00:33:31,359 --> 00:33:34,400
of Paul that seemed to be moving around in order

637
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,759
to combat some of the teachings of Paul. Paul classically,

638
00:33:36,759 --> 00:33:41,359
believe it or not, was egalitarian, and the pastor epistles

639
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,319
are not. They're very negative towards women, whereas Paul actually

640
00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:48,039
wasn't in fact, even in Corinthians there's one passage that's

641
00:33:48,119 --> 00:33:52,200
negative towards women in one Corinthians fourteen. And if you

642
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,839
actually look at the earliest manuscripts of First Corinthians, that

643
00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:57,599
passions isn't there. It actually shows up first at the

644
00:33:57,599 --> 00:34:01,400
marginal note, and then eventually it showed up inside of

645
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,640
the text, and then it moves around for a couple

646
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,960
of centuries, and then finally it finds a home. And

647
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,280
so we know for sure that there were quotes being

648
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,679
added even to Paul's authentic epistles, because we've got the

649
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:14,960
manuscript evidence to prove it. Same thing with the first,

650
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,679
second and third John, first John five seven, the classic

651
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,239
Trinitarian passage that didn't exist. That quote doesn't even show

652
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,360
up in history until the tenth century, and it doesn't

653
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,119
show up in a single manuscript until the fifteenth century.

654
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,880
And so when we talk about like when the Bible

655
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,639
was written and why the Bible was written, we have

656
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,039
some pretty good idea of when some stuff was written,

657
00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:39,519
and other stuff we have to say we lack evidence

658
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,639
why it was written. I think it's pretty obvious. I

659
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:47,559
think the Old Testament was primarily put together initially as mythology,

660
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:50,599
the same way every nation has their own mythology, and

661
00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:55,079
then in order to maintain their cultural identity in the

662
00:34:55,119 --> 00:35:00,199
face of large sections of historical occupation, they wanted to

663
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,320
collect and consolidate the historical narrative so that they could

664
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,320
get the people to be on one page, to be

665
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,760
a cohesive people group. And the best way to do

666
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,320
that is say, hey, we're actually all one family. Here's

667
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,639
our backstory. We've taken all this stuff and we've compiled

668
00:35:15,679 --> 00:35:19,760
it into one unit so we can demonstrate that this

669
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,599
is a united kingdom. You know, when the Assyrians come

670
00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:25,400
a knock in, you need to come down and join

671
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,280
us Judean so we can fight them off, right, And

672
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,960
so it seemed to be slightly political motivated in when

673
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,199
they started to assemble and edit the text, But the

674
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,119
original texts were in good faith. They were stories passed

675
00:35:38,199 --> 00:35:42,719
down legitimately that people honestly believed. And then it wasn't

676
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,199
until later that they became kind of weaponized as a

677
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,519
tool of political intrigue. And then eventually the New Testament

678
00:35:49,639 --> 00:35:52,199
was the same. They were stories that people legitimately believed,

679
00:35:52,519 --> 00:35:55,559
and then it got co opted into Okay, can we

680
00:35:55,679 --> 00:35:59,000
use Paul's name, Can we use Peter's name, to write

681
00:35:59,079 --> 00:36:03,000
something with a thought to control the behavior of certain people.

682
00:36:03,039 --> 00:36:06,960
And now we're in twenty twenty six and Christian nationalists

683
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,400
want to use the Bible to control women and put

684
00:36:10,679 --> 00:36:14,280
people back in slavery. Wow, that's a lot.

685
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 5: I mean, that's one book, that one book that has

686
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:24,360
caused so much confusion, and the way it's been used,

687
00:36:24,679 --> 00:36:28,280
I guess, you know, to control people, you know, like

688
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,239
the way we are in twenty twenty six, are trying

689
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,400
to take away women's vote.

690
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, yes they are. Yeah. And I'll add two

691
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,719
things on top of what Justin said. Take all of

692
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,880
that and realize that the claim that they're making, the

693
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,239
people that are pushing this is that this was the

694
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,800
best way for an omniscient God to warn you about

695
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,840
hell and tell you about Heaven. That this mishmash of history,

696
00:36:55,079 --> 00:37:00,559
of text, of oral tradition that was written to by

697
00:37:01,199 --> 00:37:03,719
some we can take a guess at some are anonymous

698
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:10,159
people that have gone through translations of interpretations, incorporating the

699
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,320
scribes notes from the margins into the text and then

700
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,280
getting translated again. And we don't have any originals of

701
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,599
the gospel. All of that this was and it was

702
00:37:20,639 --> 00:37:23,360
written in languages that God allegedly would know would die out,

703
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,360
so that people today can't actually go back and read

704
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,960
the original text. We don't have the originals, but and

705
00:37:29,039 --> 00:37:31,559
the closest we have the originals without learning a whole

706
00:37:31,639 --> 00:37:35,960
other several languages. This was the best method that the

707
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:40,920
omniscient God could tell you about heaven, and Jesus Christ

708
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,559
is this was it? Not writing it onto your heart,

709
00:37:44,039 --> 00:37:48,480
not writing it onto the moon, not speaking to us

710
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,239
on a daily basis in a way that we could

711
00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:53,360
test or anything like that. So that's the first thing,

712
00:37:53,599 --> 00:37:58,039
and then the second thing is is more going back further. Justin's,

713
00:37:58,159 --> 00:38:01,320
you know, talking about why people believe these things. Correct

714
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:06,320
me if I'm wrong. But the origin stories, right, the Genesis,

715
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,920
the Adam and Eve and all of this, this was,

716
00:38:09,079 --> 00:38:12,719
as you said, mythology that people genuinely believed, and it's

717
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:18,519
derived from oral tradition, right, that possibly dating I mean

718
00:38:18,639 --> 00:38:22,639
the earliest copies of Torah writing that I think we

719
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,360
have date back to the end of the Bronze Age,

720
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,360
like the twelve hundred or something like that. We have

721
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,199
stuff from back then into the thousands and five hundreds.

722
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,800
So my understanding, Correct me if I'm wrong. Is the

723
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,440
most important part of why you should believe this, i e.

724
00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:42,039
The Fall of Man, the original sin, and all of

725
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:47,320
that is oral tradition from illiterate goat herders in the

726
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,000
Bronze Age that didn't know where the sun went at night,

727
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,039
and that story got created and then passed down until

728
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,880
somebody started writing those traditions down. As you said, is

729
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,400
that fair? Is that a fair statement to make?

730
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: Not only is it fair, I think it might be

731
00:39:03,519 --> 00:39:05,840
worse than that. So if you look at the first

732
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,440
eleven chapters of Genesis, I don't think a lot of

733
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,679
people realize when people say, like Genesis was written during

734
00:39:11,679 --> 00:39:14,679
the exile. One of the reasons why we know, while

735
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:16,559
it might not have been completely written during the exile,

736
00:39:16,599 --> 00:39:18,320
the reason why we know that it was more or

737
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,840
less compiled during the exiles because the first eleven chapters

738
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:27,519
are specifically designed to be a polemic against known Babylonian literature.

739
00:39:28,199 --> 00:39:31,840
In fact, everything in those first eleven chapters I can

740
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:36,400
show you in the Babylonian literature where the competing hypothesis is.

741
00:39:36,559 --> 00:39:40,119
So if you read the Babbylin literature, there say hey,

742
00:39:40,119 --> 00:39:43,400
this is our mythology, this is what we believe, and

743
00:39:43,639 --> 00:39:46,320
when you look at the Bible saying, oh, actually, while

744
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,519
you might think that here's what actually happened, that take

745
00:39:48,599 --> 00:39:52,119
the same story and they reconfigure it with their God

746
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,920
in it and with their special people in it. Right,

747
00:39:55,519 --> 00:39:59,639
And so the first eleven chapters of Genesis aren't even

748
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,639
like I wouldn't even say it was their mythology. They

749
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:07,679
literally borrowed that mythology from the nation that occupied them.

750
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:13,000
And that's like the danger of syncretism, because like as

751
00:40:13,519 --> 00:40:17,360
the Israels became occupied by other nations, they actually abandoned

752
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:21,559
some of their own historical backdrop to adopt the mythology

753
00:40:21,559 --> 00:40:24,199
of the nations that conquered them, which is crazy.

754
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 2: So they fixed their own Yeah, it took their own mythology, yeah,

755
00:40:30,639 --> 00:40:34,280
the Babylonian cinematic universe, and then they fan fictioned it

756
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:35,920
into their own version that they liked better.

757
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's how we got things like Satan. Satan

758
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,320
developed during most likely the Persian period to explain why

759
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:48,360
God was so ineffective. Well, obviously there are enemies that

760
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:49,400
God has to fight.

761
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 2: Again, I got to be an antagonist, right, yeah, I

762
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:59,519
once remember, I forget who it was. There was an

763
00:40:59,599 --> 00:41:03,039
actor who's an atheist, and she's done some shows about it,

764
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,000
and she said, if you've worked in Hollywood and you

765
00:41:06,079 --> 00:41:10,079
read even just the Gospels, the four Gospels in order

766
00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:12,679
of what we think they were authored, she said, it

767
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,679
really feels like what you experienced in Hollywood of somebody

768
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,960
having a first draft of a script and then punching

769
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,239
it up to make it better for the movie audience,

770
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,559
and then punching it up again, and they just keep

771
00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:27,119
punching it up to add the backstories, the explanations, the drama,

772
00:41:27,159 --> 00:41:29,199
and the trying to fill in the plot holes and

773
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:34,360
stuff like that. That was her comment. It was was

774
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,000
it Julius Sweeney who did Letting Go of God? I

775
00:41:37,039 --> 00:41:40,840
think so, Yeah, I've always been fascinated by that.

776
00:41:41,039 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 3: So thank you for that.

777
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,760
Speaker 2: That's stunning, like that you you can pull that off

778
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:47,599
the top of your head.

779
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you you learned the law. You can

780
00:41:51,639 --> 00:41:53,800
talk all day about the law. And you know, I

781
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,519
went to school to learn the Bible apparently so I could. Yeah,

782
00:41:57,639 --> 00:42:00,880
it's like about the Bible. But and I mean, I

783
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,960
hope some of that was helpful to you. I would suggest,

784
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,360
if you want to know about authorship of the Bible.

785
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,480
I would highly recommend getting something on the topic, say

786
00:42:11,599 --> 00:42:16,280
of textual criticism or source criticism, those two fields. Probably

787
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,360
source criticism would be the one you want to take

788
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,360
a look at, and you'll get lots of good discussions

789
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,440
on the authorship of various books. Or if you want

790
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,480
something more encompassing, you just want to learn as much

791
00:42:26,519 --> 00:42:28,440
as they can about the Bible, but not buy like

792
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,159
a whole library like what I had to do. Get

793
00:42:31,199 --> 00:42:35,159
something like the Oxford Bible Commentary or the Jerome Bible Commentary.

794
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,719
There are two really good resource commentaries. They're very academic.

795
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,360
They're not like apologetic. One is Protestant, that's the Oxford

796
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,280
and one is Catholic, that's the Jerome. But neither one

797
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,400
of them are Neither one of them are engaging in

798
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,119
any apologetics. They're just really good academic commentaries that'll go

799
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,599
over authorship, they'll go over history, and then they'll kind

800
00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:58,639
of go over what is like the academic consensus on

801
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,000
most of the passages. That you're gonna have questions about what.

802
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,559
Speaker 7: Are your thoughts I appreciate that, what are.

803
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 3: Your thoughts there? And do you have any other questions?

804
00:43:08,039 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 5: Well, when when you brought up Satan. This was the

805
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:16,880
thing that especially listening to the shows and stuff, God

806
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,519
is omniscient, you.

807
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:23,519
Speaker 6: Know, except you know, well then how you know, except.

808
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,039
Speaker 5: For people, except for Satan.

809
00:43:25,159 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: I think I.

810
00:43:26,039 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 5: Would think, what does God?

811
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:29,639
Speaker 1: Sounds so useless?

812
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to create the drama.

813
00:43:32,679 --> 00:43:36,519
Speaker 2: Like you know, drama is tension, right, that is what

814
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,960
like the master of drama of my age is Tarantino,

815
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,320
and the thing that he's really good at is creating

816
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,760
tension between characters. And without tension, there's no interest. That

817
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,239
audience isn't interested unless there is some sort of struggle.

818
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,320
And so I think I would backfully Justin's interpretation of

819
00:43:53,599 --> 00:43:56,960
we need we need some foil Superman, if he were

820
00:43:57,079 --> 00:44:00,760
omniscient and could destroy every enemy without even thinking about

821
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,239
it would be a very boring story, right, yeah.

822
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, So the Bible does kind of sound like a

823
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,679
movie script that way, or you know, a story.

824
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, And well that's why they had to add

825
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,800
to it over time, right, because they have these initial

826
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,760
stories and then when questions pop up, they're like, oh, well,

827
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,719
here's a news story to answer your question, Like for example,

828
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,519
during the exile, even during the post exile.

829
00:44:27,559 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: One of the things you have to ask yourself, is

830
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,239
if we're God's people, And God said to us even

831
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,239
as early as Ezekiel that we're like, we're going to

832
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:41,039
be a righteous remnant. In zephy and Iya said when

833
00:44:41,039 --> 00:44:43,320
we return from exile, we're going to be perfect. There

834
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,039
will be no deceit in our mouths uh. And then

835
00:44:46,119 --> 00:44:47,840
we kept getting her ass kicked, and you have to

836
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,159
ask why, why are God's righteous people getting their asses kicks?

837
00:44:51,199 --> 00:44:53,400
And then what do you get? You get a story

838
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,000
like Job that perfectly is trying to answer the question

839
00:44:57,079 --> 00:44:59,880
of okay, if if we're good, if we're God's people

840
00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:02,000
for righteous, why are we getting fucked up like this?

841
00:45:02,599 --> 00:45:04,800
And a lot of people think Job is an old

842
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:06,800
story is actually not. It's written very late in the

843
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,599
biblical corpus and the goal of that book is to say, hey,

844
00:45:11,119 --> 00:45:15,519
why are righteous, godly people suffering? And that's how a

845
00:45:15,559 --> 00:45:17,679
lot of the books of the Bible were written, is

846
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:21,079
to answer that question, why is this particular thing happening?

847
00:45:21,679 --> 00:45:23,880
And the Book of Ruth is another one. Book of

848
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,760
Ruth is there to weigh in on the debate and

849
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,719
whether or not it's okay to marry a mobike because

850
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,280
during the time of vezra Ezra was, you know, making

851
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,480
people divorce their foreign wives and dragging them out of

852
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,320
the city and cutting their hair off and doing all

853
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,239
kinds of horrible stuff. And the Book of Ruth written

854
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,079
like to say, hey, actually, remember there was this mobibikee

855
00:45:44,079 --> 00:45:47,239
woman in David's ancestry. Maybe we shouldn't be so hasty, right,

856
00:45:47,599 --> 00:45:50,320
So we definitely have these interesting books that were some

857
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,639
of them obviously designed just to answer popular questions at

858
00:45:53,639 --> 00:45:53,920
the time.

859
00:45:54,559 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

860
00:45:55,159 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 2: I think the example I go to is if somebody

861
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,519
says we do this or should we not do this,

862
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,320
and you just say yes or no. That's less convincing

863
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:07,440
than some sort of narrative.

864
00:46:08,119 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 3: So should we do this? Should we do that?

865
00:46:10,199 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 2: And you say, let me tell you the parable of

866
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,960
the blah blah blah. And then you tell a story

867
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,440
that illustrates a point, and you make it emotional, and

868
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,800
you make and you tie it to previous literature, and

869
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,199
you tie it to firmly held beliefs, and all of

870
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,199
a sudden you get people invested in doing what you want.

871
00:46:26,679 --> 00:46:29,679
You know, uh take, I don't know if you remember.

872
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,679
Reagan is the person Ronald Reagan, the president, invented the

873
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,440
concept of the welfare queen. We've got to stop donating

874
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,639
money to these welfare queens. I have a story about

875
00:46:40,679 --> 00:46:44,000
this woman. She's on welfare and she's driving a Cadillac

876
00:46:44,039 --> 00:46:45,960
and she has a bunch of kids and she's getting

877
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:50,360
money from the state. And that story in my lifetime right,

878
00:46:51,119 --> 00:46:54,519
drove so many people crazy, and the term welfare queen

879
00:46:54,639 --> 00:46:58,079
is still with us today and cause people to support Reagan,

880
00:46:58,159 --> 00:47:01,800
support things like that would really harm themselves and all

881
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,599
that stuff. And then when reporters went to investigate the story,

882
00:47:05,639 --> 00:47:07,599
they found out it was all made up. And I

883
00:47:07,599 --> 00:47:10,320
have many other examples of you know, Reagan telling these

884
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,760
stories that are made up. But the story is what

885
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,719
got people fascinated and motivated. It wasn't just Reagan said

886
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:18,440
we should discontinue welfare.

887
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 3: It was the story. Well, and that's just human nature,

888
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:22,679
I think.

889
00:47:23,159 --> 00:47:27,119
Speaker 5: Well, Reagan, before he was even governor of California, he

890
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,800
was like a pitchman for ge and all that. So

891
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:32,679
he was good at advertising.

892
00:47:33,159 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's a very good storyteller. And he would

893
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,360
always leave things out or lie. Another favorite story of

894
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,639
mine is where he was talking about tort reform, which

895
00:47:42,679 --> 00:47:44,440
is a big thing of mine. Tort reform is trying

896
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:48,119
to deny people the right to sue companies for their damages, basically,

897
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,119
and they try to sell it as let's get rid

898
00:47:50,159 --> 00:47:54,440
of corruption in the justice system. But he told a

899
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,840
story to the pre You can find the recordings. He

900
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,679
gives a speech and says, hey, there was a guy

901
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,000
that was in a phone booth. You remember phone booths, right,

902
00:48:05,159 --> 00:48:07,320
you know, payphones on the corner of the street. He

903
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,920
was talking on the phone and a drunk driver ran

904
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,320
into the phone booth and injured him, and he sued.

905
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,559
Of course he sued, but guess who he sued. He

906
00:48:14,679 --> 00:48:17,880
sued the phone company, and everybody blew up like, we

907
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,440
got to reform the tort system. These jackpot judgments are

908
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,400
getting people millionaires. You remember the hot coffee incident. I've

909
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:26,119
got a whole episode.

910
00:48:26,199 --> 00:48:28,679
Speaker 6: I was just thinking about that. I was just thinking

911
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:29,239
I saw a.

912
00:48:29,159 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 5: Whole documentary about that.

913
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: That lady burned really bad.

914
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, people will see those pictures after saying I think

915
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:37,960
she was just trying to get lucky, and then they

916
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,320
see the pictures and they'll say things like oh my God,

917
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,679
or oh sweet Jesus. But the going back to the

918
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,639
phone booth which is the more obscure one. Reagan's giving

919
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,159
this speech and he says, of course, he sued the

920
00:48:49,679 --> 00:48:52,840
phone company, and everybody gets mad, and then you go

921
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,119
and look at the story, and what was the truth.

922
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,280
That phone booth in that location had been hit dozens

923
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,440
of times. They knew it was a risky place. People

924
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,480
had been injured before they knew that the door was broken.

925
00:49:06,639 --> 00:49:09,320
He saw the car coming and tried to get out

926
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,159
of the phone booth and couldn't get out before he

927
00:49:11,199 --> 00:49:13,599
got hit. And Reagan knew all of this and still

928
00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:15,920
told the story. So I'm not trying to be political here.

929
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,239
I'm just saying, and you can find these examples on

930
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,639
the liberal side of the aisle. What I'm saying is

931
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:25,039
it's the story that sold people. He gave that speech

932
00:49:25,079 --> 00:49:28,920
and people were up in arms, and that's why they

933
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,480
grabbed onto the McDonalds taught coffee as well.

934
00:49:31,559 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 3: So, but it's the story that sells.

935
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,559
Speaker 2: It's not just a yes or no, or let me

936
00:49:36,639 --> 00:49:39,800
take away your right to sue companies when they injure you.

937
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,960
It is Hey, this woman spilled coffee on herself while

938
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,800
she was driving, and she got one hundred million dollars

939
00:49:47,119 --> 00:49:48,960
and then when you go and look into it, it's

940
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,920
the exact opposite. And McDonald's walked themselves into a judgment

941
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,599
that they ended up getting reduced anyway, And by the way,

942
00:49:57,679 --> 00:50:00,440
I have to mention this, the first contact he made

943
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,679
with McDonald's was, Hey, I think there's something wrong with

944
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,920
your coffee at that location. I got burnt. Would you

945
00:50:07,039 --> 00:50:10,199
mind paying me for the time off of work and

946
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:14,360
some of my medical bills that the insurance company wouldn't

947
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,599
pay for me. It was like ten grand back in back,

948
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,480
you know, thirty years ago, which is like now, like

949
00:50:20,519 --> 00:50:23,159
thirty grand. I don't know too many people who could

950
00:50:23,159 --> 00:50:25,480
take a thirty grand hit today and keep on going.

951
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,039
Speaker 3: That was it, That's all she asked. She didn't even.

952
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,639
Speaker 2: Hire a lawyer, and McDonald's told her to go pound

953
00:50:30,679 --> 00:50:34,639
sand and her family got involved and a bunch of

954
00:50:34,639 --> 00:50:35,480
information came out.

955
00:50:35,519 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 3: But my point is it's the stories.

956
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: The industry took that McDonald's story and ran ads on it.

957
00:50:42,679 --> 00:50:46,920
Reagan used the phone boost story and the welfare queen

958
00:50:47,039 --> 00:50:51,199
story because stories are effective, and to Justin's point, the

959
00:50:51,199 --> 00:50:54,079
Bible is a collection of stories that have a reason

960
00:50:54,159 --> 00:50:54,960
for being told.

961
00:50:55,599 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 5: Well, Jared is still back to the phone boost story

962
00:50:58,519 --> 00:50:59,360
real quick.

963
00:50:59,199 --> 00:51:01,679
Speaker 6: Because I remember some kind of a.

964
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:06,199
Speaker 5: Campaign ad in California about that, like maybe they were

965
00:51:06,199 --> 00:51:08,840
trying to get some measure on the ballot or something,

966
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,280
and you know, I was only like twelve at the.

967
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 7: Time, but something, yeah, something like that.

968
00:51:15,559 --> 00:51:19,119
Speaker 5: And they and they said the whole story about you know,

969
00:51:19,159 --> 00:51:21,480
how we see the phone company and this and that

970
00:51:21,599 --> 00:51:26,960
and and with that, and with also the hot coffee story.

971
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,079
They were acting like, Oh, you could just go see

972
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:31,599
someone and you'll just get a.

973
00:51:31,519 --> 00:51:32,280
Speaker 6: Big thing out.

974
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:37,639
Speaker 5: And I know that you're an attorney.

975
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, their right to a trial by

976
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,960
jury's enshrined in the constitution. Very few rights are, but

977
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,480
a right to trial by jury is in the constitution.

978
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:50,119
And it's because they knew that big companies or people

979
00:51:50,119 --> 00:51:54,800
who are rich or political interests could capture congress see lobbyists.

980
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,360
They could bribe them, they could pay them for whatever.

981
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:02,239
They could capture the White House, they could even capture judges,

982
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,280
but they can't capture the jury box. That's what companies

983
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,400
get pissed off about. So I don't go off on that,

984
00:52:09,679 --> 00:52:12,639
but there's a reason they attack toward reform, and they

985
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:17,400
use these stories like the Bible to try to affect

986
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,559
political change. That's I think my view of most of

987
00:52:20,599 --> 00:52:22,239
the Bible. But I do believe I do agree with

988
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,079
justin that I do believe the original people that came

989
00:52:25,159 --> 00:52:28,679
up with the mythology genuinely were like explaining the world,

990
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,239
just like you read Greek mythology. It progresses over time

991
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,480
and it explains things, and it has conflict and drama.

992
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,400
It's all stories, and we don't have the shred of

993
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,880
evidence to think that there's anything supernatural supporting it.

994
00:52:42,199 --> 00:52:45,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just think that. You know, I've read a

995
00:52:45,159 --> 00:52:48,679
lot of fiction over the years, and I've learned. I've

996
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,280
learned plenty from fiction, but no one's ever tried to

997
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,079
make a religion out of you know, Stephen King or whatever.

998
00:52:56,639 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 2: But well, we have modern examples, you know, look at

999
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:05,400
the Book of Mormon, look at l. Ron Hubbard in scientology.

1000
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:12,280
We've seen religion's form in recorded modern history where there's video,

1001
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:16,559
not just documents. But we've seen it happen and you

1002
00:53:16,639 --> 00:53:19,400
start small and you start getting bigger a few years ago.

1003
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:21,920
I don't know if it's still true, but Mormonism, the

1004
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,360
Church of Jesus Christ, the Latter Day States was the

1005
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:29,360
fastest growing religion on I think in all of the Americas,

1006
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,599
like as far as percentage growth over year over year.

1007
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:38,159
So that's you know, again, we see how these form.

1008
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:42,559
It starts with somebody either fraudulently or sincerely coming up

1009
00:53:42,559 --> 00:53:45,000
with a story and then just trying to convince people

1010
00:53:45,039 --> 00:53:48,840
that they should believe it's real and eventually give me

1011
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:52,639
their money.

1012
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:58,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, no, I really appreciate all of this.

1013
00:54:00,039 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for stepping in and asking a good question.

1014
00:54:04,039 --> 00:54:06,440
You know, my favorite thing to talk about the Bible obviously,

1015
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,239
but love a good question. And a lot of people,

1016
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,199
you know, when they were in school or when they

1017
00:54:11,199 --> 00:54:14,480
were Christians, they were just told like boiler play stuff,

1018
00:54:14,599 --> 00:54:16,840
John wrote, John Moses wrote atord but we have no

1019
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,360
reason to believe any of those come to be true.

1020
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,880
These are all stories from tradition. These are not things

1021
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,320
that you would get if you actually read the text.

1022
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,039
Speaker 2: In fact, most Bibles, especially study Bibles, if you open

1023
00:54:29,119 --> 00:54:32,559
them and go to the Gospels, they will have disclaimers

1024
00:54:32,599 --> 00:54:36,320
at the beginning of saying. The Gospels are named after

1025
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,840
their authors as quote unquote church tradition, which is code

1026
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,840
for we've always called it that way since a long

1027
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:44,760
time ago. So we're going to keep saying that they

1028
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,559
were written by John and we're not going to tell

1029
00:54:46,599 --> 00:54:49,000
you that it's not. We'll just call it church tradition,

1030
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,760
which is a very ambiguous term. And I'm going to

1031
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,119
put it to you that a lot of smart people

1032
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,119
have been involved in church leadership and could have changed

1033
00:54:57,159 --> 00:55:02,000
that terminology and chose not to intentionally calling it church tradition,

1034
00:55:02,079 --> 00:55:05,320
because the person who's not familiar with what they mean

1035
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,400
by that is going to say, oh, it's a tradition,

1036
00:55:07,679 --> 00:55:09,599
like it's just something we've always done. That's great, but

1037
00:55:09,639 --> 00:55:12,039
they don't put it to we're calling them that out

1038
00:55:12,079 --> 00:55:15,280
of tradition and not because we don't know who wrote it.

1039
00:55:16,079 --> 00:55:19,639
So it's another lie of omission. Everything Reagan said was

1040
00:55:19,639 --> 00:55:20,360
true about.

1041
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 3: The phone booth.

1042
00:55:21,079 --> 00:55:22,760
Speaker 2: He was in a phone booth, car hit, drunk driver

1043
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,039
hit him, and he sued, true, it's a live emission.

1044
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:30,360
Woman gets spills hot coffee on her lap, sues true,

1045
00:55:30,599 --> 00:55:34,840
live emission. Same thing with the Bible's offer. You know

1046
00:55:35,079 --> 00:55:37,559
this is we're going to read from the Book of John. Okay,

1047
00:55:37,599 --> 00:55:39,679
it's the Book of John, but who wrote it? They

1048
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:42,239
don't tell you that. And that was My question to you,

1049
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,400
and as sort of if we're wrapping up, is after

1050
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:49,920
hearing everything that Justin said about all of the sort

1051
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,079
of problems we have figuring out who said what and

1052
00:55:53,119 --> 00:55:54,320
when all of this was written?

1053
00:55:55,519 --> 00:55:56,559
Speaker 3: Did you ever.

1054
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 2: As a person growing up you said you were in

1055
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:00,440
the Catholic Church, So I think I know the answer

1056
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,960
to this. Were you ever taught any of that and

1057
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,880
any of that when you did when you did Bible study?

1058
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,880
Was it let's open the book and talk about why

1059
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:10,760
we're reading this book and who wrote it and how

1060
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:11,840
we know or what we don't know?

1061
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 3: Or did it just start with, you know, the gospels?

1062
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:17,559
Speaker 5: I think it was just the Gospels. Like in church,

1063
00:56:17,639 --> 00:56:20,159
it was hard to pay attention because we had to

1064
00:56:20,159 --> 00:56:22,679
go to church so early in the morning and we

1065
00:56:22,679 --> 00:56:25,960
weren't allowed to have any breakfast because of communion.

1066
00:56:26,599 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 1: Uh oh, yeah, it.

1067
00:56:28,159 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 5: Was you know, you're tired, you're starving, and you know

1068
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,360
you have you're expected to take this step to heart

1069
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,599
and like you can barely even concentrate on it. At

1070
00:56:37,679 --> 00:56:39,360
least that was my experience with it.

1071
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 2: It's interesting, Justin did you ever get that Were you

1072
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,280
ever in in? Uh as a young person or a

1073
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:50,079
teen in church and going to Bible study.

1074
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,280
Speaker 1: So I was lucky in that, you know, I'd called

1075
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:55,760
here as a Catholic school, but my Catholic school was

1076
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,280
not dogmatic, and so I wasn't forced to do a

1077
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,760
lot and I got them. I actually enjoyed the learning.

1078
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:08,280
I didn't have to go to like any inconvenient studies

1079
00:57:08,599 --> 00:57:11,079
or prayer time or church time unless I got like

1080
00:57:11,119 --> 00:57:16,039
a detention at school, and so I was lucky that

1081
00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:17,920
I was kind of free to choose my path.

1082
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:19,559
Speaker 3: That's nice, that's nice.

1083
00:57:19,599 --> 00:57:22,639
Speaker 2: I was asking because when I back in the day,

1084
00:57:22,679 --> 00:57:25,360
when I told some religious friends of mine that I

1085
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,320
was going to as an atheist, read the Bible cover

1086
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:32,360
to cover, their first question to me was what study

1087
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:32,840
guide are.

1088
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 3: You going to use?

1089
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 2: And I found that I've always remembered that, right, I've

1090
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,480
always like I thought it. I didn't say anything at

1091
00:57:38,519 --> 00:57:41,119
the time, but my thought was, why should the Word

1092
00:57:41,159 --> 00:57:43,840
of God that is my path to salvation require a

1093
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,239
human authored study guide in addition to this?

1094
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 3: And what's going on here?

1095
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 2: So I went out to the bookstore and started looking

1096
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,760
at the study guides, and they all started with something

1097
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,440
in the Gospel about, you know, God loves everybody and everything,

1098
00:57:55,719 --> 00:57:58,360
and none of them were talking about dash your kids

1099
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,239
upon the rocks and slavery and all the horrible stuff.

1100
00:58:01,679 --> 00:58:06,239
And I find that so again, it's the stories, and

1101
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:10,320
it's the lies of omissions, and so it's done so knowingly,

1102
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,119
Like wouldn't you expect if you were having an honest

1103
00:58:13,119 --> 00:58:17,000
discussion at a like a collegiate level, Hey, who wrote this?

1104
00:58:17,039 --> 00:58:18,639
And why should we believe that they wrote it? That

1105
00:58:18,639 --> 00:58:20,360
would be the first thing to say, like, why should

1106
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:21,079
we even listen to that?

1107
00:58:21,079 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 3: If it we're studying it now.

1108
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 2: I get you don't want to tell, you know, elementary

1109
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:29,280
school kids that, but adult Bible study classes that you

1110
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,719
can go to. Every church that at least around me

1111
00:58:32,159 --> 00:58:34,519
offers Bible studies to all of.

1112
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 3: Its members and anybody who wants to join in.

1113
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:40,679
Speaker 2: I've never seen one of them start with who wrote this?

1114
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 3: What do we know? And what do we don't know?

1115
00:58:42,039 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 2: It's always just let's presume that this is all true

1116
00:58:46,199 --> 00:58:48,960
and whatever the teacher is saying is accurate without any

1117
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:50,719
sort of investigation.

1118
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:55,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a weird thing. I would say this. Most

1119
00:58:55,679 --> 00:58:58,679
study guides, if you're doing a Bible study, are put

1120
00:58:58,719 --> 00:59:02,360
together by I don't know ministers of some type. They're

1121
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,800
trying to get you to believe what they believe. So

1122
00:59:05,519 --> 00:59:08,480
if you really want to know, like an academic view,

1123
00:59:09,039 --> 00:59:12,639
you probably won't find it in a study guide, right, Yeah,

1124
00:59:12,719 --> 00:59:16,519
it's unfortunate, but in that case, nevertheless, there are really

1125
00:59:16,559 --> 00:59:21,360
good academic works now on anything in the Bible that

1126
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:25,280
I think regular people can read and understand. It's just

1127
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,079
a matter of figuring out where those resources are. I

1128
00:59:28,159 --> 00:59:33,079
personally think we're living in the golden age of biblical academics,

1129
00:59:33,639 --> 00:59:36,320
and the amount of stuff that's available to the common

1130
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:38,440
person that wasn't even available back when I was in

1131
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,039
the seminary is insane that there's never been a better

1132
00:59:42,039 --> 00:59:45,519
time to get into biblical studies. Ignore those goofy study guides.

1133
00:59:46,039 --> 00:59:48,719
Get a good piece of software like the loga Bible

1134
00:59:48,719 --> 00:59:52,639
study software, start buying resources. They've got a resource on

1135
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:54,159
any topic you could ever.

1136
00:59:54,039 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 2: Want, and then if you really doubt anything you find,

1137
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:00,280
you can chase it down. That's the great thing about

1138
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,440
it is it's not going to just the log of

1139
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:04,000
software is just not going to assert it. It's going

1140
01:00:04,039 --> 01:00:06,559
to have citations. You can go and do the research

1141
01:00:06,599 --> 01:00:09,239
and find out who's saying this where.

1142
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 3: The debate is.

1143
01:00:10,239 --> 01:00:13,039
Speaker 2: Because the thing I enjoy most about listening to Justin

1144
01:00:13,159 --> 01:00:17,159
or somebody like Dan McClellan or any of the scholars,

1145
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:22,000
you know, the bart Ermins or whomever is. They will

1146
01:00:22,079 --> 01:00:25,679
identify when they are in the minority opinion or when

1147
01:00:25,719 --> 01:00:28,559
there is a debate, or when there is unity of opinion.

1148
01:00:29,079 --> 01:00:32,079
And that's just that's how humans do things. We get

1149
01:00:32,079 --> 01:00:35,119
in front of each other, we present our discussion some

1150
01:00:35,159 --> 01:00:37,719
of the stuff that Justin was talking about, like hey,

1151
01:00:38,119 --> 01:00:40,280
when did the bin become the bar and all of

1152
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:42,079
this sort of stuff. They'll get up and they'll write

1153
01:00:42,079 --> 01:00:43,719
a paper on it, and it'll make their argument, and

1154
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:46,039
then people might come up with counter examples and we

1155
01:00:46,119 --> 01:00:48,400
get a little bit better at understanding where this stuff

1156
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:51,400
came from. And I agree this is a golden age.

1157
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,320
And when you compare it to not too long ago

1158
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:59,440
in human history time where the Catholic Church would burn

1159
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:01,360
you at the state if you translated in English or

1160
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:04,960
taught people to read the Bible, we've come a long

1161
01:01:05,039 --> 01:01:08,920
way of access to the supposed source of authority for

1162
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:10,960
the priest class.

1163
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:15,159
Speaker 5: True, that sounds good because the Catholic Church is so

1164
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:19,800
you know, higher hierarchical you know, there's a pope and

1165
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,880
a whole Vatican. And the one thing I never could

1166
01:01:23,039 --> 01:01:25,639
could figure out was why why are they always telling

1167
01:01:25,639 --> 01:01:27,679
you to be humble? But then you know, you look

1168
01:01:27,679 --> 01:01:32,159
at the Vatican and as they.

1169
01:01:32,119 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 3: Say, not as I do.

1170
01:01:34,079 --> 01:01:35,159
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, I mean.

1171
01:01:35,239 --> 01:01:37,559
Speaker 2: Probably one of the biggest landowners on earth.

1172
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah. So I really appreciate you guys, you know,

1173
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:48,400
telling me all these things, explaining all this so beautifully.

1174
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:50,119
I've had a wonderful.

1175
01:01:49,719 --> 01:01:52,599
Speaker 1: Time, so me too.

1176
01:01:52,599 --> 01:01:54,559
Speaker 3: You've been a next caller. I really appreciate it.

1177
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 5: Okay, happy, all right, Okay, well you guys have a

1178
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,079
great day.

1179
01:02:00,199 --> 01:02:03,119
Speaker 3: I agre with you. That was awesome. Thank you so much.

1180
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:05,719
Speaker 2: Justin like, I just need to take you out sometime

1181
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:07,199
and buy you a beer and just ask a bunch

1182
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:08,639
of questions.

1183
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,639
Speaker 1: I'd be having the time of my life. It'd be

1184
01:02:11,639 --> 01:02:13,679
an absolute blast of for any time.

1185
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 3: Excellent.

1186
01:02:14,719 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 1: We do have another caller in the queue. Let me

1187
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,199
grab a couple announcements and then we'll grab our next caller, okay,

1188
01:02:22,199 --> 01:02:24,079
and then we could talk about where we're going to

1189
01:02:24,119 --> 01:02:27,480
get some beers at Hey, friend, we're excited to announce

1190
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:29,920
the launch of our twenty twenty six back cruise August

1191
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:34,199
fifteenth at seven pm. Tickets aren't sell now, and they're

1192
01:02:34,199 --> 01:02:36,559
going fast. In fact, my understanding is they pretty much

1193
01:02:36,559 --> 01:02:39,559
always sell out every year. There's going to be exciting

1194
01:02:39,559 --> 01:02:42,760
events all week, including a special guest lecture on Friday,

1195
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:45,679
a community outing and activity during the day on Saturday,

1196
01:02:45,719 --> 01:02:49,239
followed by our annual members town hall, and your Favorite

1197
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:52,519
ACA show is filmed live from the Free Thought Library

1198
01:02:52,559 --> 01:02:56,320
on Sunday. Featured guests are going to be genetically modified

1199
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:59,960
Skeptic and the Anti Bot. Tickets are available at AC

1200
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:04,960
Show Forward Slash Fat Crews. Another way to support us

1201
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:06,880
is by sending super chats. We get them in during

1202
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:08,840
the live stream. We read as many as we can.

1203
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,239
Sometimes we'll read them between guests, sometimes we'll read them

1204
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:15,039
after the guests. In fact, I see some that have

1205
01:03:15,119 --> 01:03:17,280
come in, but I don't know if they've been added

1206
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:21,159
to our sheet yet, but I've got them anyways, noted

1207
01:03:21,199 --> 01:03:23,639
over here. So yeah, you can support the show by

1208
01:03:23,679 --> 01:03:26,519
sending in super chats as well, And that's another way

1209
01:03:26,519 --> 01:03:29,920
that you can actually interact with the hosts rather than

1210
01:03:30,039 --> 01:03:32,679
calling in. We also want to send a big thank

1211
01:03:32,719 --> 01:03:34,760
you out to the crew who put the show together.

1212
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:36,880
Every week, Graham and I get up here and we

1213
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:39,280
get the talk and people get their hard voices. But

1214
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:41,719
there's a lot of people that actually make the show happen.

1215
01:03:42,599 --> 01:03:46,079
Video operators, audio operators, note takers, call streamers, tap moderators,

1216
01:03:46,119 --> 01:03:49,119
and even Greg. So send a big thank you to

1217
01:03:49,159 --> 01:03:49,840
the crew.

1218
01:03:50,199 --> 01:03:52,159
Speaker 2: All the skilled people, and Greg.

1219
01:03:54,639 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 7: Love it.

1220
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:59,119
Speaker 1: Greg would would you like to be one of those skilled,

1221
01:03:59,159 --> 01:04:02,280
attractive crew member. Perhaps you can be a guest on

1222
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:05,519
one of our shows as well, or even eventually become

1223
01:04:05,519 --> 01:04:08,119
a host. We're always looking for talent people interested in

1224
01:04:08,159 --> 01:04:11,320
being part of the community and the production. If you

1225
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:13,760
are interested in helping out at the ACA in any

1226
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:16,440
way possible, whether it's to be a host or somebody

1227
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:18,800
helping in the background, you can send an email to

1228
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:24,719
volunteer at atheists Community dot org. Again, it's volunteer at

1229
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:28,480
atheist dash community dot org. It should be on the screen,

1230
01:04:28,599 --> 01:04:30,119
or at least the websites on the screen. It's going

1231
01:04:30,159 --> 01:04:34,199
to be volunteer at that domain. And if we can

1232
01:04:34,519 --> 01:04:38,519
find a way for you to get put into the mix, hey,

1233
01:04:38,719 --> 01:04:41,480
we'll definitely do that with you. We do have some

1234
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:44,480
super test populating on our sheet now, so well we've

1235
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:47,480
got those when we need them. Let's grab our next guest,

1236
01:04:47,519 --> 01:04:49,800
which I don't think has a name yet, Graham.

1237
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:54,039
Speaker 2: Did you know I see Hitta? He him from Netherlands,

1238
01:04:55,239 --> 01:04:58,239
Hitta or Heida. We can pull them up and ask

1239
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:00,880
them if they're I can, if you'd.

1240
01:05:00,719 --> 01:05:03,639
Speaker 1: Like, I think I see what you're saying now, yeah,

1241
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,760
I should think there should I.

1242
01:05:06,639 --> 01:05:10,079
Speaker 2: Deconvert my mom? And if so, how do we have

1243
01:05:10,159 --> 01:05:10,840
your right hit up?

1244
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 7: That's correctly and you're saying my name correctly?

1245
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:14,599
Speaker 3: Great?

1246
01:05:16,719 --> 01:05:19,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, basically I've been brought up. Go ahead, or if

1247
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:20,199
you want me to.

1248
01:05:20,199 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 1: Start, no, idould say so? If you could kind of

1249
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:25,280
give us some of your background and help us understand

1250
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:26,519
where you're coming from to be helpful.

1251
01:05:27,039 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 7: Right. So I was raised in a Protestant family, kind

1252
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:34,960
of cherry picking the Bible, just live good and ignore

1253
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:37,639
the bad stuff. And if something is good and listening

1254
01:05:37,599 --> 01:05:39,440
to the Bible, would you say, oh, Jesus would have

1255
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:42,760
done it, you know, that type of religion. And we

1256
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:47,159
had more strict religions near us, and I kind of

1257
01:05:47,239 --> 01:05:50,760
never believed it, and I kind of started overthinking the

1258
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:56,639
whole thing and basically, wow, like it just kind of

1259
01:05:57,239 --> 01:05:59,000
I don't know if you used to be religious, but

1260
01:05:59,079 --> 01:06:01,320
you kind of learned to just shut up about it.

1261
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:04,880
And it's kind of getting to a point where I'm

1262
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:09,360
struggling with some other stuff, including the relationship with my parents,

1263
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:11,639
and I kind of just don't know if I should

1264
01:06:11,719 --> 01:06:14,280
make this appoint going forward, also including the fact that

1265
01:06:15,519 --> 01:06:20,760
my grandma, so my mom's mother, is suffering from dementia,

1266
01:06:21,159 --> 01:06:24,199
and I think my mom kind of gets a lot

1267
01:06:24,239 --> 01:06:27,280
of emotional value out of the belief that, you know,

1268
01:06:27,559 --> 01:06:29,920
they get to be together against now, when in fact,

1269
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,840
at this point, she's kind of gone already, you.

1270
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 3: Know, understood.

1271
01:06:34,519 --> 01:06:37,559
Speaker 1: So I've got I think everyone's going to address this

1272
01:06:37,599 --> 01:06:41,360
a little bit differently, and I've got some situations where

1273
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:45,840
I felt like I've been in summer position. My take

1274
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:50,480
is this, if your friend's family loved ones are religious

1275
01:06:50,719 --> 01:06:55,119
and say what they believe is harmful to them or

1276
01:06:55,119 --> 01:06:59,199
to others. For example, I've got one family member who

1277
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,800
I refuse to tell that I'm an atheist. She is

1278
01:07:03,079 --> 01:07:05,119
one of the most delightful people on the planet. She

1279
01:07:05,559 --> 01:07:09,159
loves everybody. She would only ever use her religion to

1280
01:07:10,119 --> 01:07:13,400
try to become a better person and someone like me,

1281
01:07:13,639 --> 01:07:17,000
I think to myself, Okay, what's my goal in doing

1282
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:19,719
the work that I do. My goal isn't to deconvert everybody.

1283
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:22,599
My goal is to make the world a better place. Now,

1284
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:26,239
if somebody finds comfort and joy and peace and it

1285
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:28,400
helps them to become a better person, and they don't

1286
01:07:29,159 --> 01:07:30,880
seem to be the type of person that would ever

1287
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,320
use it to hurt somebody, especially if they're getting closer

1288
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:38,000
towards the you know, at the end of life, to me,

1289
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:40,239
I say, let them have it. I don't think it's

1290
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:42,239
I don't think it's our job to tell people what

1291
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:45,440
they do and not have to believe in or shouldn't

1292
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:49,079
believe in. I think, though, if somebody in your orbit

1293
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:53,320
is being toxic, they're using the religion for bad or

1294
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:55,440
perhaps if you think they would just be better off

1295
01:07:55,559 --> 01:07:58,079
not having the religion, I think it might be worthwhile

1296
01:07:58,159 --> 01:08:01,039
to have some introductory to discussions. I'm like, hey, what

1297
01:08:01,199 --> 01:08:02,679
you know, why do you believe that?

1298
01:08:02,719 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 3: What?

1299
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:04,639
Speaker 1: What? What's a reason?

1300
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:04,960
Speaker 2: Like?

1301
01:08:05,039 --> 01:08:07,559
Speaker 1: If I asked you why did you pick this as

1302
01:08:07,559 --> 01:08:10,599
opposed to Buddhism or Islam, what would you tell me?

1303
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 7: Right?

1304
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 1: I think those questions are are fair to ask Nevertheless,

1305
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:18,239
though my personal opinion is I don't know if you

1306
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,319
if you value your friends, if you value your loved ones.

1307
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,479
I think you do need to have some boundaries of

1308
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:28,800
respect around the topic of belief and understand that, you know,

1309
01:08:29,159 --> 01:08:33,520
maybe turning everybody into an atheist shouldn't be the goal,

1310
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:36,520
even if it is true, right.

1311
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 7: I think I agree with you and most and that

1312
01:08:41,239 --> 01:08:43,079
I was another part of this, like I said in West,

1313
01:08:43,079 --> 01:08:45,399
struggling with some stuff, like I got some depression, which

1314
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:49,119
mostly comes from, you know, overthinking because basically since my

1315
01:08:49,159 --> 01:08:51,520
youth I never really believed. I just you know, you're

1316
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:53,399
still believing in Santa Claus and then at some point

1317
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:55,720
you figure out dead. Oh fuck, they're serious about this,

1318
01:08:56,159 --> 01:09:00,960
Moses guy, I have to I'm sorry.

1319
01:09:01,239 --> 01:09:05,279
Speaker 2: That's a that you summarized my experience so accurately. I've

1320
01:09:05,279 --> 01:09:08,920
never heard it summarized like, oh fuck, they're serious about this.

1321
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:11,079
Is the like I need a I need a teacher

1322
01:09:11,199 --> 01:09:12,199
that please go on that.

1323
01:09:12,199 --> 01:09:18,119
Speaker 7: That was great, And basically I'm thirty one years old

1324
01:09:18,239 --> 01:09:19,920
right now. I think I've had a depression for like

1325
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:23,520
twenty years basically because I have not really had like

1326
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:27,319
any education, getting a proper philosophy or worldview or And

1327
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:30,000
I have a pretty bad relationship with my mom because

1328
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:33,039
I really never know what her like, where her morals

1329
01:09:33,079 --> 01:09:33,479
come from.

1330
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:34,479
Speaker 1: It's just she.

1331
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 7: Says it's the Bible and God. But then I see

1332
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:41,600
her just take whatever feels right. And I heard the

1333
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:45,079
stories about you know, historyhere, I'm like, that's just not correct.

1334
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:49,000
So I've been doubting everything and kind of getting into

1335
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:52,920
like a negative thought spiral. And Lady we've been talking

1336
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:55,119
and she's asked, like, oh, what can I do to help?

1337
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:59,279
And with mental stuff, it's other people can really help.

1338
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:03,439
But when I've brought up a friend up twice and

1339
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:06,079
she just gets really defensive when I said, like, you know,

1340
01:10:06,119 --> 01:10:10,600
it bothers me that I was raised with this philosophy

1341
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:12,560
that to me is so obviously not true that I

1342
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:15,800
can't quite understand why you would raise your children according

1343
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:18,880
to And she just generally doesn't seem to understand it,

1344
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:20,640
and I'm not sure like I wanted to understand me.

1345
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:23,479
At the same time, I don't want to ever give

1346
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:26,199
up something that lakes her happy.

1347
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:29,760
Speaker 2: I can relate. I understand this very well. I'm sure

1348
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:35,279
Justin does too. My question, I think for you would be.

1349
01:10:37,039 --> 01:10:41,880
It sounds like you're balancing your instinct and urge for

1350
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:45,520
your mother to understand maybe some pain that you've suffered

1351
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:47,840
or some distress that you've suffered in your life that

1352
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:52,199
you may blame her for, and you're balancing that against.

1353
01:10:52,159 --> 01:10:54,640
Speaker 7: You know, you're almost essentials.

1354
01:10:55,079 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 3: So as some extent, I didn't audibly hear that. Could

1355
01:10:58,000 --> 01:10:58,520
you repeat that?

1356
01:10:59,239 --> 01:11:02,239
Speaker 7: I said, it almost feels vengeful to some extent.

1357
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:06,800
Speaker 2: Not getting the word it feels vengeful vengeful? Okay, okay.

1358
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:09,239
Speaker 6: I wonder it to feel the same thing that I

1359
01:11:09,239 --> 01:11:10,880
had that because she lost.

1360
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:13,560
Speaker 7: Her mom and she was raised religious. I just figured

1361
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:15,800
that if she feels like, oh shit, I've been like

1362
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:17,920
to you, then at least we have that in.

1363
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:20,399
Speaker 4: Common to maybe write to be for a bit.

1364
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:25,560
Speaker 2: That's just going to damature, right, So you're balancing that instinct,

1365
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,960
those feelings of being distressed, feeling disappointed, feeling betrayed, and

1366
01:11:30,039 --> 01:11:33,520
wanting sort of, as you said, slightly sort of to

1367
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:37,039
strike back or have this vengeful with you know, caring

1368
01:11:37,079 --> 01:11:39,359
for the person and also trying to be, you know,

1369
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:42,159
a good person. You don't want to do unnecessary harm

1370
01:11:42,279 --> 01:11:44,279
to people and things like that. And I respect that

1371
01:11:44,279 --> 01:11:48,319
that's that is the human condition. That is, you know,

1372
01:11:48,319 --> 01:11:51,159
if you had to summarize a lot of Russian literature,

1373
01:11:51,199 --> 01:11:54,279
you're sort of stuck in this no win situation of

1374
01:11:54,399 --> 01:11:58,439
the human condition. One of the things I had a

1375
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:00,600
call two weeks ago or three weeks to go from

1376
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:03,199
somebody who said the basically, if I had to boil

1377
01:12:03,239 --> 01:12:06,039
their argument down, it was I'm religious because I want

1378
01:12:06,159 --> 01:12:09,920
to believe that in the end there will be justice

1379
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:13,880
for people who do bad things. And our conversation centered around, well,

1380
01:12:14,199 --> 01:12:16,319
I hate to tell you that, but all evidence points

1381
01:12:16,359 --> 01:12:17,560
too that's not going to happen.

1382
01:12:18,119 --> 01:12:20,239
Speaker 3: How can you live with that idea? So I would

1383
01:12:20,279 --> 01:12:20,720
ask that.

1384
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:23,399
Speaker 2: To you, like, could you live with the idea that

1385
01:12:24,039 --> 01:12:28,279
you let that vengeance, that anger go and just say,

1386
01:12:28,279 --> 01:12:31,319
you know what, everybody on this planet has something like

1387
01:12:31,359 --> 01:12:33,880
that in their lives or worse with their parents.

1388
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 3: I'm going to let it go. I'm going to be

1389
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:37,039
the bigger person.

1390
01:12:37,279 --> 01:12:40,199
Speaker 2: And let that weight come off of you and just

1391
01:12:40,239 --> 01:12:42,840
say it doesn't matter anymore.

1392
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:44,840
Speaker 3: You've grown past it. That would you know?

1393
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 2: I don't know if that works for you, but I

1394
01:12:48,039 --> 01:12:50,720
don't I worry that you're not going to get what

1395
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:53,239
you want because those two things that you're struggling with

1396
01:12:53,279 --> 01:12:55,760
are in opposition to one. And if you come after

1397
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,000
your mom to some degree and then she passes, you

1398
01:12:59,079 --> 01:13:01,199
may live to regret it. But if you don't get

1399
01:13:01,279 --> 01:13:04,119
closure and she passes and you haven't gotten closure, you

1400
01:13:04,119 --> 01:13:06,640
may live to regret it. And maybe the best thing

1401
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,199
to say is, you know, this is one of the

1402
01:13:09,239 --> 01:13:11,279
things that it is to be human that sometimes you

1403
01:13:11,399 --> 01:13:14,600
just don't ever get any sort of closure. Is that

1404
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:16,760
something that might work for you is to just sort

1405
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:17,319
of let it go.

1406
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:22,039
Speaker 7: I'm honestly not sure, but I may need to give

1407
01:13:22,079 --> 01:13:22,560
it some thought.

1408
01:13:23,239 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, my heart goes out to you. I too suffer

1409
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:26,640
from depreciating.

1410
01:13:27,319 --> 01:13:29,760
Speaker 3: Go ahead. I think there's a little delay. Please do

1411
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:30,199
go ahead.

1412
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:36,199
Speaker 7: Absolutely, it's does when like, especially since no Israel stuff

1413
01:13:36,239 --> 01:13:38,520
kicked off, you said, like you have this family member

1414
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:44,359
who's just the sweetest person, right, that's justin Yes, I

1415
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:47,680
have an end like that. But then sometimes I see

1416
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:49,960
your post stuff about like what's going on in the

1417
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:50,439
Middle East.

1418
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:51,279
Speaker 4: I'm just reading it.

1419
01:13:51,319 --> 01:13:53,199
Speaker 6: I'm like, you're the nicest person.

1420
01:13:53,399 --> 01:13:57,119
Speaker 7: Like how somehow you end up on like it's new

1421
01:13:57,319 --> 01:13:59,199
I'm not expecting anyone to take the full side, but

1422
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:02,359
there's just happening and they're just like talk with.

1423
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:07,000
Speaker 2: And mm hmmm. It's almost like a it just confused

1424
01:14:07,039 --> 01:14:10,039
me right where you you have the sweet person talking

1425
01:14:10,079 --> 01:14:13,479
about this and then they say, and we really need

1426
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:16,600
to do something about the Irish. You know, it's like

1427
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:18,960
out of left field, like it totally out of their

1428
01:14:19,079 --> 01:14:22,000
character and it's almost it would be funny if it

1429
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:26,039
weren't so shocking. I've had I've had family members like that.

1430
01:14:26,159 --> 01:14:31,119
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly, and and it's yeah, but yeah, definitely good

1431
01:14:31,199 --> 01:14:34,359
if our conversation thought and uh, I think you might

1432
01:14:34,399 --> 01:14:37,239
have opened some lines that's gone up that I I

1433
01:14:37,359 --> 01:14:41,680
love considered before. So thanks for that. And I also

1434
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:43,520
would like to thank you because I listened a lot

1435
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:46,159
to the show in my in my team, so also

1436
01:14:46,199 --> 01:14:47,960
to you and to the team and to other people

1437
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:50,520
who set it up back in the day. A huge

1438
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:52,880
thanks for the for the things you're doing.

1439
01:14:53,319 --> 01:14:54,039
Speaker 3: Thank you well.

1440
01:14:54,079 --> 01:14:54,880
Speaker 1: I appreciate the call.

1441
01:14:55,279 --> 01:14:59,039
Speaker 2: I will also make a plug for an organization called

1442
01:14:59,119 --> 01:15:03,840
Recovering from Religion. The type of story you're telling is

1443
01:15:04,279 --> 01:15:06,319
in the ballpark of the type of stories that they

1444
01:15:06,359 --> 01:15:09,520
deal with. It doesn't necessarily have to be you. If

1445
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:11,479
you were to call them and want to talk about it.

1446
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:15,439
They help people who are recovering from religion, and it's

1447
01:15:15,479 --> 01:15:18,640
not always the person who was religious and is now

1448
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:21,239
is not and they need help. It can be exactly

1449
01:15:21,279 --> 01:15:25,039
your situation that you're suffering this sort of mental weight,

1450
01:15:25,159 --> 01:15:29,119
mental trauma, whatever it may be. They have people who

1451
01:15:29,199 --> 01:15:30,359
are very good.

1452
01:15:30,159 --> 01:15:31,680
Speaker 3: At pointing you to resources.

1453
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 2: I do not know if they have a local chapter,

1454
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:38,840
so to speak, in the Netherlands, but if you go

1455
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:42,000
and google recovering from religion, you could sort of investigate them.

1456
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:45,039
And my other plug would be I too suffer from depression,

1457
01:15:45,079 --> 01:15:48,319
and in various points in my life, I have been medicated,

1458
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:51,720
and I will say that science is a wonderful thing.

1459
01:15:52,039 --> 01:15:55,359
Like those medica it doesn't work for everybody, but what

1460
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,600
it did for me was to clear my mind so

1461
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:02,640
I could address what I was worried about or not doing.

1462
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:04,680
For me, it was more like not doing things, not

1463
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:08,359
getting things done, and it let me create while I

1464
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:12,000
was sort of thinking, well, it let me create.

1465
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,439
Speaker 3: Good habits to.

1466
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:15,680
Speaker 2: Carry on even though I go off the meds, and

1467
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:17,840
those habits carry on and it doesn't get me back

1468
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:18,720
into a depressed state.

1469
01:16:19,399 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 3: Or you can just be permanently on it.

1470
01:16:21,159 --> 01:16:24,439
Speaker 2: I have a good friend who is a psychiatrist, and

1471
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:29,520
we talk a lot about the challenges of medication. But

1472
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:34,560
one thing that seems universally agreed upon among the scientific

1473
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:38,640
community is the place we are now, and the choices

1474
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:42,239
you have now for medical treatments for depression are the

1475
01:16:42,239 --> 01:16:44,359
best they've ever been. So I would really encourage you,

1476
01:16:44,359 --> 01:16:47,039
if you have not already, to seek out some of

1477
01:16:47,079 --> 01:16:50,199
those solutions as well. It really really did a lot

1478
01:16:50,239 --> 01:16:52,920
for my life. I would not be an attorney if

1479
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,680
I weren't on medication back in my school days.

1480
01:16:56,119 --> 01:16:58,119
Speaker 3: Go ahead, Sorry, I.

1481
01:16:58,039 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 7: Have think points in sidos and I kind of fash

1482
01:17:00,399 --> 01:17:04,359
some philosophical reasons not to one then that I have

1483
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:07,640
been considering them more and more because and disprove the

1484
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:08,399
need of summer.

1485
01:17:09,199 --> 01:17:12,279
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you know, I appreciate your.

1486
01:17:12,159 --> 01:17:17,840
Speaker 2: Objections and absolutely take your philosophical objections, which we all respect,

1487
01:17:18,159 --> 01:17:20,800
and go and do some research on them and see

1488
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:25,239
if there's other alternative solutions as well. But I can

1489
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:27,279
you know, this is just one piece of data, but

1490
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:30,479
it worked wonders for me. It runs in my family.

1491
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:33,079
It's done wonders for people in my family as well,

1492
01:17:33,119 --> 01:17:34,800
So highly recommend it.

1493
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 3: Thanks for you Simes cheers friend, thank you very much.

1494
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:40,600
Speaker 2: Good luck with that. Oh and he's off the air.

1495
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:48,039
I forgot to say my condolences for Netherlands losing in

1496
01:17:48,079 --> 01:17:50,880
the World Cup too. I think it was Monica. I

1497
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:54,720
don't remember, but I enjoyed their play and the five

1498
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:58,399
one drubbing of Sweden was quite entertaining. My best friend

1499
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:00,439
is from Sweden, so I got to tease my about that.

1500
01:18:02,119 --> 01:18:04,920
Speaker 1: I did not watch the World Cup. I keep seeing

1501
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:07,439
it in the news. Apparently there's a lot happening, and

1502
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:10,319
I feel like I kind of missed out. Yeah, it's

1503
01:18:11,119 --> 01:18:13,800
a great event. There's always FIFA as a whole.

1504
01:18:14,359 --> 01:18:16,479
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody will dispute that it is a

1505
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:21,680
nearly criminal investigation organization. They their offices were raided a

1506
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:24,520
few years ago. That's a very corrupt organization. So there's

1507
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:28,119
always stress, anxiety, worry before every World Cup, and then

1508
01:18:28,199 --> 01:18:32,199
the football gets played and it all just turns into

1509
01:18:32,279 --> 01:18:35,960
a big party. And one of my FM's memories was

1510
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:37,479
back in the nineties, the World Cup was here in

1511
01:18:37,479 --> 01:18:40,880
the United States and my friend's Swedish cousin came over

1512
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:44,039
and we were very young men at the time and

1513
01:18:44,119 --> 01:18:45,960
went down and we lived near DC, so we went

1514
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:47,079
down to the clubs in DC.

1515
01:18:47,239 --> 01:18:48,680
Speaker 3: One that was called Luluse.

1516
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:51,279
Speaker 2: And the next morning, when we were all hung over,

1517
01:18:52,199 --> 01:18:55,880
my friend's cousin woke us up and said, it's type

1518
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:59,600
for Luluse, like every day, so I could not keep up.

1519
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:02,520
I'll tell you, the Swedes know how to party. But yeah,

1520
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:05,000
it's it's still going on the finals. In fact, I

1521
01:19:05,039 --> 01:19:08,399
say it's the final. The next match is pretty much

1522
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:13,239
kind of the finals. Argentina excuse me, Spain versus France

1523
01:19:13,279 --> 01:19:16,039
I think is good and then Argentina off on the side.

1524
01:19:16,119 --> 01:19:19,640
So really good teams, really great players still left and

1525
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:24,119
more importantly, a lot of great experiences put aside a

1526
01:19:24,119 --> 01:19:27,600
few political things where we had the United States creating

1527
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:30,479
problems for people that were coming to play and good

1528
01:19:30,479 --> 01:19:31,800
faith no.

1529
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:35,439
Speaker 1: Way, like players were being turned away.

1530
01:19:35,239 --> 01:19:39,359
Speaker 2: Referee was turned away, and they played games with the

1531
01:19:39,399 --> 01:19:42,199
Iranian team, like making them fly out of the country

1532
01:19:42,239 --> 01:19:44,680
after their match was over, like trying to wear them

1533
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:45,319
down and stuff.

1534
01:19:45,359 --> 01:19:48,399
Speaker 1: Top it. That's not crazy, yep.

1535
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:51,840
Speaker 2: So never happened before, but that's the world we live in.

1536
01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:56,000
But again, once once you get down and look at

1537
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:58,560
all the experiences of fan interaction. It seems to be

1538
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:02,560
a big, wonderful celebration of as they call it, the

1539
01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:03,239
beautiful sport.

1540
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:09,039
Speaker 1: It's embarrassing in the country to like watch your leadership

1541
01:20:09,119 --> 01:20:13,319
do that to other people. The soccer players aren't responsible

1542
01:20:13,359 --> 01:20:15,560
for what's happening right now. They didn't do anything wrong.

1543
01:20:18,079 --> 01:20:21,359
That's nonsense. It reminds me back when well, I mean,

1544
01:20:21,399 --> 01:20:23,640
obviously we weren't there, but when we were putting Japanese

1545
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:25,960
an internment camp. Listen, the Japanese that were living in America.

1546
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:28,079
They didn't they didn't bomb for Harbor, they didn't weren't

1547
01:20:28,119 --> 01:20:30,479
responsible for that. Like, you can't. You can't punish it

1548
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:34,479
as a bystanderds just because they're like somehow related to

1549
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:37,760
the people you're mad at with, Like it's just it's

1550
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:38,279
a bad look.

1551
01:20:38,319 --> 01:20:38,520
Speaker 7: Man.

1552
01:20:39,199 --> 01:20:44,800
Speaker 2: Well, you know, we're talking about a administration who had

1553
01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:49,159
created the Religious Liberty Commission, who just published their report

1554
01:20:49,239 --> 01:20:53,199
last week or two weeks ago, and the commissioner, the

1555
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:55,760
head of that commission, came out when they announced their

1556
01:20:55,840 --> 01:21:01,359
draft report being published and said, speaking of lies of omission,

1557
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:04,760
like we talked about earlier, separation of church and state

1558
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:09,359
is not in the Constitution. Again that sentence. If you

1559
01:21:09,399 --> 01:21:12,199
take separation of church and state as the phrase, the

1560
01:21:12,239 --> 01:21:15,039
phrase the words separation of church and state are not

1561
01:21:15,079 --> 01:21:20,039
in the Constitution is true absolutely, But this administration knows

1562
01:21:20,079 --> 01:21:22,039
what they mean by that and what they're trying to do.

1563
01:21:22,159 --> 01:21:25,319
And you can respond by saying, there's a bunch of

1564
01:21:25,319 --> 01:21:28,000
things that aren't in the Constitution using those exact words,

1565
01:21:28,039 --> 01:21:31,119
like right to fair trial, right to privacy in a

1566
01:21:31,159 --> 01:21:34,960
sent until proven guilty, freedom of expression, right to travel.

1567
01:21:35,039 --> 01:21:37,359
I've got a whole list here. I've been writing on it.

1568
01:21:37,399 --> 01:21:42,800
But the fact that they want to trick people that

1569
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:46,760
these are supposedly people who are religious and morally good

1570
01:21:47,319 --> 01:21:50,119
are using these lies this lie of omission that the

1571
01:21:50,159 --> 01:21:52,439
separation of church and state is not in the Constitution,

1572
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:55,800
that they know that if we applied their rule of oh,

1573
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:58,000
if the exact phrase that we use to describe the

1574
01:21:58,039 --> 01:22:01,119
concept isn't in the document, then the concept is null

1575
01:22:01,159 --> 01:22:04,920
and void. If we applied that rule, they would be furious.

1576
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:09,720
Yet they're doing that in the name of their God,

1577
01:22:10,119 --> 01:22:14,560
their moral high ground, and it's absolutely infuriating. So the

1578
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:17,520
fact that they also gave the Iranian soccer players the

1579
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:21,640
run around and banned a ref they didn't like from

1580
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:24,560
a country they didn't like. Shouldn't be shocking to anybody.

1581
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:27,920
These These are the people who claim to getting back

1582
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:31,279
to An's question, to have a reason and interpretation of

1583
01:22:31,319 --> 01:22:33,880
the Bible that is the most valid in all of history,

1584
01:22:34,399 --> 01:22:38,039
and they're using it to change our society.

1585
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:41,760
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Well, friends, we're going to bring up

1586
01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:45,520
our backup post Ben and have a chat with Ben

1587
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:47,279
that we're going to read the rest of our superow.

1588
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:52,920
Speaker 2: I don't Ben, have you grown your beard out even further?

1589
01:22:53,319 --> 01:22:56,039
Speaker 9: I mean, it just keeps doing that. It's not like

1590
01:22:56,079 --> 01:22:59,520
I'm doing it intentionally. It just keeps growing. The intent

1591
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:00,479
is I don't trim it.

1592
01:23:01,079 --> 01:23:02,159
Speaker 3: Ah, there you go.

1593
01:23:03,319 --> 01:23:04,720
Speaker 4: It just kind of has a mind of its own.

1594
01:23:04,760 --> 01:23:06,960
Speaker 3: Otherwise, Well, you're looking good.

1595
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:10,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh thank you you too, I'd look really good.

1596
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:12,880
Speaker 1: Any thoughts on the calls.

1597
01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:15,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, Like, I think it's it's always complicated and fraught

1598
01:23:16,279 --> 01:23:19,600
when you're wanting to deconvert a family member. And I

1599
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:22,239
really liked the way you guys handled that because there's

1600
01:23:22,279 --> 01:23:24,119
a lot of like care and a lot behind the

1601
01:23:24,119 --> 01:23:28,279
scenes that everyone's living in life. Situation is different and

1602
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:32,520
unique and so I've seen some people, like on this

1603
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:35,920
platform and others that are just like, oh, absolutely deconvert everybody,

1604
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:38,600
but not everyone lives in that Not everyone lives in

1605
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:41,159
that situation and circumstance, and so trying to take the

1606
01:23:41,199 --> 01:23:43,720
care and like is this the right thing for your situation?

1607
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:45,439
Speaker 4: Is this the right thing for that person.

1608
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:48,840
Speaker 9: It's like, I have friends that are theists, and I

1609
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:52,520
don't actively try to force or try to deconvert them,

1610
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:55,439
Like I'll be honest and genuine in any conversations we have.

1611
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:58,800
But yeah, it's always something that's fraught, and I think

1612
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:01,760
some people treat it flippantly, and you guys definitely didn't,

1613
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:05,840
which all of our hosts always seem to handle it

1614
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:08,279
with a lot of grace and care. And so, Yeah,

1615
01:24:08,319 --> 01:24:11,199
that was very interesting and enjoyable to go through and

1616
01:24:11,239 --> 01:24:11,640
listen to.

1617
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a situation I think we've all been in, right,

1618
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:19,760
I assumed justin you've got people in your life, as

1619
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:21,199
you said, you got a family member that you would

1620
01:24:21,199 --> 01:24:24,640
never say that you're atheists, and I think correct me

1621
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:29,159
if I'm wrong. The caller that said, oh, they're fucking

1622
01:24:29,199 --> 01:24:32,199
serious about this, that sort of sum arised my moment

1623
01:24:32,399 --> 01:24:36,119
of getting into what I would call my angry atheists phase.

1624
01:24:36,239 --> 01:24:38,439
Like when I was younger, maybe I would have said

1625
01:24:38,479 --> 01:24:41,279
yes just because everybody said it, and then I'm like, oh, okay,

1626
01:24:41,319 --> 01:24:44,880
this is a Santa Claus thing. And then you start going, okay,

1627
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:47,960
people are trying to like deny people rights based on this.

1628
01:24:48,399 --> 01:24:49,119
Speaker 3: Let me go read.

1629
01:24:49,199 --> 01:24:53,159
Speaker 2: I must be missing something this concept of like all

1630
01:24:53,199 --> 01:24:56,840
of these adults in the room keep quoting this Bible thing.

1631
01:24:57,479 --> 01:24:59,880
I must be missing something because from what I've heard,

1632
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:03,079
there's nothing in there about this or that, this whole

1633
01:25:03,079 --> 01:25:05,000
piece and love thing seems to be at odds with

1634
01:25:05,039 --> 01:25:07,319
what they're arguing for. And then you go and read

1635
01:25:07,359 --> 01:25:10,880
it and you're like, there's nothing there. This is all

1636
01:25:11,039 --> 01:25:14,359
a bullshit, and b they seem to genuinely believe it.

1637
01:25:14,399 --> 01:25:17,560
And that got me shocked and then very angry for

1638
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:18,840
several years.

1639
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:21,000
Speaker 3: I don't know if you either of you had that experience.

1640
01:25:23,039 --> 01:25:25,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if I was angry, but I

1641
01:25:25,199 --> 01:25:25,600
was shocked.

1642
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:30,199
Speaker 9: Go ahead, buddy, No, just that, especially for a lot

1643
01:25:30,239 --> 01:25:34,840
of people I've met that were theiss beforehand, the realization

1644
01:25:35,119 --> 01:25:39,680
the hypocrisy and the lack of reading like that, it's

1645
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:43,960
cherry picking both ways in so many cases, and to

1646
01:25:44,039 --> 01:25:46,520
be told a narrative through your whole life that actually

1647
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:48,640
it's this, this is the correct version of this, and

1648
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:50,760
then find out there's a whole bunch of other ones

1649
01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:53,560
and all of them are equally and so at the

1650
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:55,920
end of the day, it really seems like it feels

1651
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:58,720
like it's just people choosing the one that agrees with

1652
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:01,399
them the most. There's a lot of people that come

1653
01:26:01,439 --> 01:26:04,720
out of that pretty angry and frustrated. And then I think,

1654
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:07,399
like finding a community and finding a support group like

1655
01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:10,079
recovering from religion or the atheist community of Boston, and

1656
01:26:10,079 --> 01:26:12,880
finding that space to vent that and be there for

1657
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:16,520
those people is so important.

1658
01:26:18,840 --> 01:26:22,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed, ACA helped me out when I was working

1659
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:24,760
through trying to figure out what I believed or what

1660
01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:28,239
I didn't believe. Rather yeah, and so yeah, these organizations

1661
01:26:28,239 --> 01:26:31,359
really do a lot of good speaking of but we

1662
01:26:31,399 --> 01:26:36,600
do have some super chats some of our friends. Kirby

1663
01:26:37,319 --> 01:26:40,760
knew Kirk with a two dollars set says recommended translation

1664
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:44,560
to read rock Harp for dougle how here Hey, Heart

1665
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:48,399
of it All from Ohio recommended translation. There are two

1666
01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:51,800
Bible translations. I recommend a lot, and I would recommend

1667
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:55,000
two very specific editions. Their first one is this one.

1668
01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:57,079
Speaker 3: Hold on, I got to take notes here?

1669
01:26:57,199 --> 01:26:58,000
Speaker 4: Find o for real?

1670
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:04,600
Speaker 3: Alrighty, I got my notepad up, I'm ready to type.

1671
01:27:05,159 --> 01:27:06,479
Speaker 4: Oh, that's so many editions.

1672
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:08,920
Speaker 3: I know that's too much. Can't you just tell me what.

1673
01:27:08,840 --> 01:27:09,640
Speaker 2: To believe.

1674
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:10,920
Speaker 5: All?

1675
01:27:12,159 --> 01:27:15,920
Speaker 1: The new Oxford Annotated Study Bible is like the premier

1676
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:19,560
study Bible for people that are in Bible college and seminary.

1677
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:21,479
If you go to Bible college or seminary, they're gonna

1678
01:27:21,479 --> 01:27:25,000
recommend it. You get this Bible almost ninety percent of

1679
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:28,159
the time. If you are of the Catholic persuasion, you

1680
01:27:28,199 --> 01:27:30,760
can get something comparable called the Catholic Study Bible. Get

1681
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:33,880
the third edition. Don't get the second edition. This is

1682
01:27:34,199 --> 01:27:37,199
the third edition. However, there's an even better one. If

1683
01:27:38,119 --> 01:27:40,600
I keep forgetting, they just discontinue it. You might be

1684
01:27:40,640 --> 01:27:42,880
able to get one on Amazon. Now it's like one

1685
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:46,000
hundred and fifty bucks. Now I got mine for thirty bucks.

1686
01:27:46,119 --> 01:27:49,920
It's called the Catholic Note Taking Bible. It's literally the

1687
01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:53,680
Catholic Study Bible, third Edition, except the pages are thick

1688
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:56,039
enough you can actually write on them, and there's margins

1689
01:27:56,159 --> 01:27:58,920
on the side to write on them. But if you

1690
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:01,319
can't find that anymore at a reasonable price, this is

1691
01:28:01,359 --> 01:28:04,000
a really good Bible, you'll love it. And then the

1692
01:28:04,079 --> 01:28:06,720
other one, which is not as much of a study bible.

1693
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:08,600
This is for people who just want to be like, hey,

1694
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:10,760
I don't know Greek, I don't know Hebrew, but I've

1695
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:13,760
got some questions about why something was like translated the

1696
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:16,800
way it was translated. If that's what you're looking at,

1697
01:28:17,239 --> 01:28:19,439
you want to get the Net Bible with full notes.

1698
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:23,800
This is a fantastic volume that will go to like

1699
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:27,359
the ins and outs of translation issues. If you're like,

1700
01:28:27,399 --> 01:28:29,960
why don't any of these translations agree with each other, Well,

1701
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:32,000
this will kind of give you some of the explanations.

1702
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:36,239
As for the actual base translation, this is the NRSV.

1703
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:38,640
The next one, the sixth edition, is going to be

1704
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:42,800
the NRSV Updated Edition. This one's already up to date

1705
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:46,760
on the NAB. So this is the NABRE, which is

1706
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:49,319
I think just as good of a translation as the

1707
01:28:49,479 --> 01:28:54,800
NRSV Updated Edition. So those are two amazing translations. This

1708
01:28:54,880 --> 01:29:00,239
is less amazing translation, but great translation notes. So that's

1709
01:29:00,279 --> 01:29:01,079
what I would go to.

1710
01:29:01,399 --> 01:29:03,359
Speaker 2: I don't know if you all have a favorite translature,

1711
01:29:03,399 --> 01:29:06,720
you have a favorite translation. It's less serious than yours.

1712
01:29:06,920 --> 01:29:11,600
It is the skeptics Annotated Bible. This is based on

1713
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:16,720
the King James version because specifically, the reason I'd like

1714
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:18,920
it that it's on the King James is a lot

1715
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:21,600
of people who are the more extreme among us in

1716
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:24,560
the United States still use the King James Bible, so

1717
01:29:24,680 --> 01:29:27,640
being able to read exactly with the words that they have.

1718
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:33,239
The reason I like this version is it in the margins.

1719
01:29:33,279 --> 01:29:35,119
I don't know if we'll see this on camera. You'll

1720
01:29:35,119 --> 01:29:37,479
have the text here and in the margins. At every

1721
01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:41,159
point where there is a contradiction, something that's funny, something

1722
01:29:41,199 --> 01:29:43,279
that is problematic, something that has been shown to be

1723
01:29:43,319 --> 01:29:47,119
a historical they annotate everything and they cross reference to

1724
01:29:47,159 --> 01:29:49,600
other sections of the Bible where there's contradictions and things

1725
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:52,960
like that. So it is the King James Bible, but

1726
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:56,159
it's also animated, excuse me, annotated, so that when you

1727
01:29:56,159 --> 01:29:58,439
look something up, you can have that sort of skeptical

1728
01:29:59,359 --> 01:30:01,760
skepticals kind of the wrong word, but that sort of

1729
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:05,920
historical accurate view of oh wait a second, it says this,

1730
01:30:06,159 --> 01:30:09,239
but also see this other contradictory thing over here, and

1731
01:30:09,279 --> 01:30:12,000
it's very useful to look it up on that way.

1732
01:30:12,560 --> 01:30:17,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a cool resource. Oh yeah, good buddy.

1733
01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:20,159
Speaker 9: I think y'all are both mentioned about the illustrated or

1734
01:30:20,199 --> 01:30:24,279
the inappropriate illustrated Children's Bible is clearly the best version.

1735
01:30:26,079 --> 01:30:28,119
And from what I've been told outside of that, all

1736
01:30:28,159 --> 01:30:30,840
you really need is the King James version. I've been

1737
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:33,680
told that ever since I became an atheist, and even beforehand,

1738
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:36,439
that that's just the one true message of God. So

1739
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:39,680
you have us have your other fancy books. But I

1740
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:42,199
don't know why you're delving into that one. Clearly it's

1741
01:30:42,239 --> 01:30:43,159
just the King James.

1742
01:30:43,439 --> 01:30:46,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, as we said before the show, if English was

1743
01:30:46,319 --> 01:30:49,520
good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me, and

1744
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:51,760
that's the version that we need as Kings.

1745
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:52,199
Speaker 3: James.

1746
01:30:52,199 --> 01:30:55,880
Speaker 2: But you reminded me of somebody years ago, and I

1747
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:58,319
think they finished the project. A site started where they

1748
01:30:58,319 --> 01:31:02,439
were doing lego builds of stories of the Bible.

1749
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:03,159
Speaker 4: Oh that's great.

1750
01:31:03,159 --> 01:31:08,079
Speaker 2: The kids and people were up in arms like the

1751
01:31:08,159 --> 01:31:10,880
Bible it's going, is it? Yeah?

1752
01:31:10,920 --> 01:31:13,760
Speaker 4: So I'm sure the one with Madanist's daughters was wild.

1753
01:31:14,199 --> 01:31:19,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, spilling seed on floor and murdering babies and all that,

1754
01:31:19,079 --> 01:31:23,920
But it's literally nothing but the text of passages with

1755
01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:26,560
a picture that depicts what the text says, and that's

1756
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:29,359
that's the beauty of it. So it's a serious resource.

1757
01:31:29,439 --> 01:31:31,840
But it does make a very good point. If you're

1758
01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:34,960
upset about this, why are you? Why are you banning

1759
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:37,399
things like a Handmaid's Tale instead of the Bible?

1760
01:31:37,439 --> 01:31:40,880
Speaker 1: In school, we didn't write it. Yeah, godless doc, thanks

1761
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:42,960
for the fight, our super chet. Why do you think

1762
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:47,279
that some Christians are so performative or flamboyant about the religion.

1763
01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:51,319
Surely they don't think this is saving souls. I think

1764
01:31:51,319 --> 01:31:54,880
it's the same reason why anyone gets performative about their beliefs.

1765
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:57,319
It's because they want to signal to others that they're

1766
01:31:57,359 --> 01:31:59,039
part of a particular group. I don't know, what do

1767
01:31:59,039 --> 01:31:59,600
you all think?

1768
01:32:00,039 --> 01:32:03,279
Speaker 2: Well, I think so. I think there's two things. One,

1769
01:32:04,199 --> 01:32:07,600
it's to make themselves fit in with a group. I

1770
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:12,439
was not an evangelical, proselytizing person at all, but I

1771
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:16,359
have heard from many people that there is this high

1772
01:32:16,439 --> 01:32:19,600
that you get when you go out and perform, and

1773
01:32:20,039 --> 01:32:22,000
even more so if you can convert somebody, if you

1774
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:24,880
can convince the the non religious friend to come and

1775
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:26,920
do an altar call like that's a notch in your

1776
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:29,720
belt and that's a big deal. So even the performing

1777
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:33,520
of this preaching or whatever I think gets a a

1778
01:32:34,039 --> 01:32:36,720
it's virtue signaling to the end group.

1779
01:32:37,359 --> 01:32:37,880
Speaker 3: I agree.

1780
01:32:38,159 --> 01:32:42,399
Speaker 2: And it goes against the Bible quite frankly, isn't there, Matthew.

1781
01:32:42,520 --> 01:32:44,840
Doesn't it say don't pray in public when you don't

1782
01:32:44,880 --> 01:32:47,600
be like the so and so when you pray, go

1783
01:32:47,279 --> 01:32:49,800
into your room and close your door and pray privately.

1784
01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:50,840
Speaker 3: Doesn't the Bibles that?

1785
01:32:51,359 --> 01:32:52,279
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1786
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:54,560
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think there's a control mechanism to it too,

1787
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:57,319
that at least why it's perpetuated to continue to exist,

1788
01:32:57,359 --> 01:32:59,680
because like, if you have a system where people are

1789
01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:04,119
doing these incredibly hyperbolic displays of their faith, it becomes

1790
01:33:04,199 --> 01:33:06,800
even more difficult for anyone that's having doubts to the

1791
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:10,199
express them out loud when it's this is the thing

1792
01:33:10,239 --> 01:33:15,119
that's celebrated and praised that kind of behavior. Then the

1793
01:33:15,159 --> 01:33:17,720
same reason what came immediately to mind and often does

1794
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:20,880
is like North Korea where you have like an outside

1795
01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:24,439
aid company comes in and does like glaucoma surgeries for people,

1796
01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:28,359
but then they stand before the dear Leader's picture, and

1797
01:33:28,399 --> 01:33:30,600
they'll be crying and weeping, and they have to be

1798
01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:35,680
as hyperbolic and as possible, and that's because the reginal

1799
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:38,479
emanforces that. It makes it a situation where you can't

1800
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:42,600
ratchet things down even when you realize it's bullshit, because

1801
01:33:43,039 --> 01:33:45,239
everyone else will be praising and worshiping, and that.

1802
01:33:45,239 --> 01:33:47,319
Speaker 4: Singles you out, and you don't want to be singled out.

1803
01:33:47,439 --> 01:33:48,560
Speaker 3: Are you sure that's North Korea?

1804
01:33:48,600 --> 01:33:52,079
Speaker 2: Because I remember watching many many cabinet meetings in this

1805
01:33:52,119 --> 01:33:56,600
country went around the table and had performative over Oh

1806
01:33:56,640 --> 01:33:59,000
my gosh, dear leader praise, that's it.

1807
01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:02,199
Speaker 3: I find that interesting. We should just note that, just.

1808
01:34:02,159 --> 01:34:05,159
Speaker 9: A note, just the thing for the comments section, tell

1809
01:34:05,199 --> 01:34:05,920
us your opinion.

1810
01:34:07,359 --> 01:34:08,359
Speaker 4: Are there parallels?

1811
01:34:08,399 --> 01:34:12,199
Speaker 1: Today we have one more super chap from and who

1812
01:34:12,239 --> 01:34:14,800
called in thank you and says, thank you Justin and

1813
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:17,000
see for having me on the show. You really made

1814
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:19,760
by day. That's that's what we're here for. And we

1815
01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:22,640
love to hear that. Super appreciate you having call in.

1816
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:25,880
And I always have a better day when I know

1817
01:34:25,960 --> 01:34:30,720
I did something that's helpful to somebody else. So big

1818
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:34,119
w Cross Examiner Graham, thank you so much for being

1819
01:34:34,119 --> 01:34:36,439
on stream with me again. We always have a good time. Ben,

1820
01:34:36,479 --> 01:34:38,359
thank you so much for backing us up today. I

1821
01:34:38,359 --> 01:34:40,239
think the backup to the backup, weren't you.

1822
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:41,039
Speaker 4: I think so?

1823
01:34:41,199 --> 01:34:43,239
Speaker 9: Yeah, I was back up on our earlier show and

1824
01:34:43,279 --> 01:34:44,720
then they're like, hey, are you still a round And

1825
01:34:44,720 --> 01:34:45,840
I was like, yeah, I could do that.

1826
01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:46,479
Speaker 4: That's fine.

1827
01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:49,840
Speaker 3: It's backups all the way down, backups all the way down.

1828
01:34:50,199 --> 01:34:53,479
Speaker 1: I missed the turtles, but thank you, thank you so

1829
01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:56,039
much for backing us up. Super appreciate it. And friends,

1830
01:34:56,239 --> 01:34:58,600
we're gonna be here again the same time, same place

1831
01:34:59,159 --> 01:35:02,560
next Sunday. Make sure you're here supporting who's ever on

1832
01:35:02,600 --> 01:35:07,399
the show. And also remember we've got shows elsewhere rather

1833
01:35:07,479 --> 01:35:10,680
than just on the eighteenth experience. We've got Truth Wanted.

1834
01:35:11,239 --> 01:35:14,520
We've also got I always forget one of them, help

1835
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:16,800
me out talky then there we go talk to than

1836
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:20,880
Truth Wanted. Make sure you're watching all three of the shows,

1837
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:23,600
not just this show, so you're supporting the whole community.

1838
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:26,159
And sign up for the back cruise. Don't forget it's

1839
01:35:26,199 --> 01:35:28,319
gonna come fast. You want to get your tickets now

1840
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:31,359
before the tickets are all sold out. And with that, friends,

1841
01:35:31,560 --> 01:35:38,960
have a great one to stop already.

1842
01:35:40,399 --> 01:35:48,520
Speaker 4: Stop the bullshit am around you.

1843
01:35:49,800 --> 01:36:20,520
Speaker 1: Watch Talking Than Live Sundays at one pm Central.

1844
01:36:20,600 --> 01:36:23,600
Speaker 2: Visit tiny dot c c slash y t t H

1845
01:36:23,720 --> 01:36:26,119
and call into the show at five one two nine

1846
01:36:26,199 --> 01:36:28,680
nine one nine two four two, or connect to the

1847
01:36:28,680 --> 01:36:31,760
show online at tiny dot c c slash call th

1848
01:36:32,119 --> 01:36:32,159
H