WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:01.840 Hey guys, it is Ryan. I'm not sure if you 2 00:00:01.879 --> 00:00:03.600 know this about me, but I'm a bit of a 3 00:00:03.640 --> 00:00:05.599 fun fanatic when I can. I like to work, but 4 00:00:05.639 --> 00:00:07.839 I like fun too. It's a thing. And now the 5 00:00:07.879 --> 00:00:09.759 truth is out there, I can tell you about my 6 00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:13.160 favorite place to have fun, Chumba Casino. They have hundreds 7 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:15.759 of social casino style games to choose from, with new 8 00:00:15.800 --> 00:00:19.760 games released each week. You can play for free anytime, anywhere, 9 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:22.719 and each day brings a new chance to collect daily bonuses. 10 00:00:22.839 --> 00:00:25.359 So join me and the fun. Sign up now at 11 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:29.199 chumbacasino dot com. No, we're not necessarily dapoi where everybody 12 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:30.519 lost et terms Conditions eighteen plus. 13 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:33.520 With the Lucky land Slots, you can get lucky just 14 00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:34.520 about anywhere. 15 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:38.240 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 16 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:40.200 weather's fine, but we're just gonna circle up here a 17 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:43.479 while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. It's 18 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:46.119 just these cash prizes add up quick, so I suggest 19 00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:48.159 you sit back, keep your trade table up right, and 20 00:00:48.439 --> 00:00:49.320 start getting lucky. 21 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:53.000 Play for free at Lucky landslots dot com. Are you 22 00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:56.759 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void We're prohibited by law 23 00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:01.159 eighteen plus terms and conditions apply see website Ford. 24 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:03.960 Lottadian. 25 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:16.439 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 26 00:01:16.519 --> 00:01:19.560 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 27 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:26.920 written about them, Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 28 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:30.640 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 29 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:34.920 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 30 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:52.000 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski, an anthology of haunting 31 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:55.400 murders written by acclaimed true crime writer Michael Benson and 32 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:58.280 his boots on the ground private investigator Donald A. 33 00:01:58.439 --> 00:02:04.000 Tubman. Featured stories include the murders of Joanne Lynn, Pamela Moss, 34 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:09.400 Sherry Smoyer and Jack King, Tammy Joe Alexander, Damitia Gibson, 35 00:02:09.719 --> 00:02:15.639 Victoria Jobson, Kelly Gaffield, Kathleen Krausnick, The Brighton Axe Murder, 36 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:20.280 Brittany Drexel, Rejana May Armstrong, Loretta Joe Gates, and Terry 37 00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:24.879 Lynn Bills, plus many more, including updates on Rochester, New 38 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:28.319 York's Double Initial murders and the Genesee Junction murders of 39 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:32.520 Georgia and Formacola and Kathy Bernhardt. The book that we're 40 00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:36.360 featuring this evening, is Hunting Homicides with my special guest 41 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:41.159 journalists and author Michael Benson. Welcome back to the program, 42 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:45.240 and it's really good to have you back. Michael Benson. 43 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:47.719 Thanks, Darren's pleasure to be here. 44 00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:53.759 It's always a pleasure. Your books are incredible, and you've 45 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:57.680 been here right from the beginning, right back ten years ago. 46 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:02.439 So let's let's get to again. It's worth repeating. We've 47 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:04.759 spoken about this before when we talked about the Genesee 48 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:13.879 Junction Devil at Genesee juhncs and tell us about what event, 49 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:18.919 what event in your life was instrumental in your decision 50 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:24.000 to become an author and now a best selling acclaim 51 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:24.879 true crime author. 52 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:29.080 All right, I was. I never volunteered to become a 53 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:32.039 true crime writer. I was drafted. When I was nine 54 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:36.360 years old. My babysitter and her friend from down the road, 55 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:39.800 girls I knew went to school with, went swimming in 56 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:42.120 a swimming hole behind my house and never came back. 57 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:45.919 And a month later they were found horribly mutilated a 58 00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:49.439 mile to the west near some railroad tracks are a 59 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:55.400 Lover's Lane. Happened on graduation night, June twenty fifth, nineteen 60 00:03:55.479 --> 00:04:00.319 sixty six, and that's the story that's in the Devil 61 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:06.000 of Genessee Junction. And at that time I teamed up 62 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:10.680 with private investigator Donald A. Tubman my boots on the ground, 63 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:16.000 and we got some PaperWorks signed by the mom of 64 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:18.199 one of the one of the victims and were made 65 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:22.240 the family investigators got us an inn with law enforcement, 66 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:25.639 and we had access to files we ordinarily wouldn't have found. 67 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:29.560 And we did a great deal too, I think answer 68 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:32.639 some of those questions now, Alis Bernhardt, the mom has 69 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:34.759 since passed away, but I'd like to think that we 70 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:37.279 gave her a little bit of closure. Makes me feel 71 00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:39.720 pretty good because you know, we gave her a name 72 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:40.959 instead of a question mark. 73 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:46.720 Absolutely, let's get to that case a little bit later 74 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:53.240 in the episode. Sure, let's start off with juan Na Lynn. Yes, 75 00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:57.759 this is Septemps and she's in sixth grade, and tell 76 00:04:57.839 --> 00:05:02.720 us a little bit about Joanne in Na Lynn and 77 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:04.480 her school this day. 78 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:10.439 Yeah, the first case in the book, Haunting Homicides is 79 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:15.879 the oldest one. It happened Monday, September nineteenth, nineteen forty nine. 80 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:20.319 Victim was Joanne Lynn, an eleven year old from Hemlock, 81 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:23.600 New York. That's near Hemlock Lake, one of the Finger Lakes, 82 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:27.639 and her school bus had mechanical problems, so for the 83 00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:30.160 first few weeks of school, the kids would normally take 84 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:32.519 the bus were forced to walk down the busy highway 85 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:37.439 to school. She was abducted, police believed by a perverted 86 00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:40.560 motorist who lured her or dragged her into his car, 87 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:44.199 and she was found shot with a nine millimeter gun 88 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:47.800 and left dead beneath the thorn apple trees a few 89 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:51.959 miles up the road. Now, she usually walked to school 90 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:55.439 with her brothers and sisters and friends, but on this 91 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:58.120 day she was alone. On this day, she took a 92 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:02.199 brief detour southward, stopping at her friend Sue Carpenter's house, 93 00:06:02.439 --> 00:06:05.600 only to learned that Sue had already left, and by 94 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:07.920 that time her brothers and their friends who usually walked 95 00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:10.839 with her, were already well up the road, so that 96 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:14.759 left Joeyan alone for the walk to school. She was, 97 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:17.720 by all accounts, in a great mood that morning. She 98 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:20.439 had things to look forward to. The Hemlock Fair was 99 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:22.600 that weekend, and she's been saving money out of her 100 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:27.839 lunch money to ride all the rides that weekend, and 101 00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:31.759 that leads to one of our favorite suspects who was 102 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:36.120 ferris wheel operator William Henry Redmond, a man who moved 103 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:39.360 from town to town with the carnivals and fairs and 104 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:42.759 who had twice during the nineteen thirties been arrested, convicted, 105 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:45.879 and jailed for attacking girls when he was still a teenager. 106 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.519 Then on April twenty sixth, nineteen fifty one, this couple 107 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:53.480 of years after join Lynd's murder, Redmond took his attacks 108 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:55.759 to the next level and murdered a little girl who 109 00:06:55.800 --> 00:07:00.319 wanted a free ride on his ferris wheel. Now she 110 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:02.480 was found in a truck on the grounds of the 111 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:07.439 penn Premiere Show, Carnival and Trainer Pennsylvania to eight years 112 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:11.560 old Jane Marie Elfoff found lying on her back across 113 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:13.920 the seat of a tractor trailer with her feet towards 114 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:19.560 the driver's door. So Joanne Lynn in Hemlock was a 115 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:21.879 little girl who couldn't wait to ride the ferris wheel. 116 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:25.360 So the connection was made eventually between these two. That 117 00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:28.720 was major disappointment when it turned out that Redmond was 118 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:31.439 not a DNA match with the semen that was found 119 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:36.759 on Joan Lynn's slip. Now, Interestingly, even since the book 120 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:40.800 has come out just a few weeks ago. Don Tubman 121 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:44.839 and I have made progress on this case. It's fifty 122 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:48.160 with a seventy year old case. Party's were doing the 123 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:51.439 math in my head, but we put a couple of 124 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:53.399 pieces of information together and I think came up with 125 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:57.560 the lead that maybe no one's looked at before. Involves 126 00:07:57.639 --> 00:08:01.079 the bloodhounds that they used during the days when joe 127 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:03.879 Anne was still missing, before her body had been found, 128 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:10.839 and the bloodhounds stopped at a house farmhouse called Green Acres. 129 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:16.319 It had formerly been a home for tourists spend the 130 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:21.000 summer at the lake. The bloodhounds got to the house, 131 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:26.519 stopped and then went behind the house, milled around behind 132 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:28.759 the house a little bit, and then returned to the road. 133 00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:32.639 And police thought that was the end of the trail 134 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:36.000 and this was the spot where the motorists had picked 135 00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:40.480 up the little girl. But if that was the case, 136 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:43.519 why did the dogs take a right and go behind 137 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:47.279 the house. What were they doing milling around behind the house, 138 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:50.320 and why did they return to the road again before 139 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:55.879 they stopped completely. And it occurred to us that joe 140 00:08:55.879 --> 00:09:00.320 Anne had gone behind that house for reasons on known 141 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:07.000 so a don spent some time in a basement going 142 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:11.519 through boxes of old police records and found a letter 143 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:15.240 that had been written to the Rochester Police Chief in 144 00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:19.720 nineteen fifty saying that she had a friend and coworker 145 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:24.879 who had a sixteen year old son who lived in 146 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:28.000 the house Green Acres and was living with a couple 147 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:31.200 a sixty year old sixty two year old man and 148 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:35.399 his sister. Now why this little pseudo family is living 149 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:39.600 together in Hemlock, we don't know. But the letter goes 150 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:41.879 on to say that the sixty two year old man 151 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:45.320 had been kicked out of his house by his wife 152 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:52.120 for trying to fool around with her little step daughter. Right, 153 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:55.320 so we have a pedophile and a sixteen year old 154 00:09:55.360 --> 00:09:59.399 boy living together in the house where Joanne Lyn sent 155 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:08.159 a the bloodhounds stop. So that's pretty interesting. Now. The 156 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:13.200 key now is to find these people, and it's because 157 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:16.879 they were separated from their families. It's proving to be 158 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:20.320 a little bit difficult. But if we can find out 159 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:23.000 where their remains are, and we're assuming they've passed away, 160 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:26.879 although the teenager would be eighty six now, very possibly 161 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:32.480 still alive. But if this is a DNA case, there 162 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:36.240 was seeming found on the slip of the victim, and 163 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:40.080 if we could get a match that we could solve 164 00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:43.039 the case, which it was just pretty exciting for something 165 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:44.320 that's seventy years old. 166 00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:50.840 Absolutely throughout this book, it's you pepper this book with 167 00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:55.120 whenever you're doing a book signing for devil Agendese Junction, 168 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:02.159 whenever you're getting responses from that almost immediately online, and 169 00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:05.879 you make new contacts and again lead to new leads 170 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:09.080 that you can provide to police, things that no one 171 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:11.759 else had thought of, or people that were afraid to 172 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:15.159 contact police or hesitant to contact police. That's this book 173 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:19.279 is entirely full of those kinds of antidotes. What about 174 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:25.240 the connection between Aldoff and Lynn's DNA, You write part 175 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:27.600 of the mystery of this was there a match for that? 176 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:32.960 Now there was no match. Redmond, the ferris wheel operator 177 00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:38.360 did not deposit his seamen on the body of Joan Lynn. 178 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:42.679 That would have been a really nice way to sum 179 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:45.720 up that case. But yeah, you're absolutely right. Well, before 180 00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:50.159 I talk about how I acquire new leads, kudos to 181 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:53.399 the law enforcement in Livingston County, New York with this 182 00:11:53.559 --> 00:11:57.159 Joan Lynn case, because it is seventy years old, and 183 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:02.399 they kept that semen sample for seventy years. When DNA 184 00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:05.919 technology came in, they had no problem again a profile 185 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.759 off of it, and the case is solvable because of that. 186 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:12.759 I mean, it's a long distance from what we got 187 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:16.519 from Monroe County before the nineteen sixty six case, in 188 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:21.440 which they complained that everything had degraded, and then eventually 189 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:24.799 when we really got interested in it, they said they 190 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:30.799 lost it. So Livingston County, whoever bagged that evidence, was 191 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:33.759 way ahead of their time. A crime scene investigator from 192 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:39.600 the future. But yeah, it's sad a lot because I 193 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:43.679 do get a lot of phone calls and messages from 194 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:49.480 people who have been abused and because their husband, their 195 00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:52.480 ex husband, or their father or whoever it was, was 196 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:56.159 a monster, they're convinced that they must be the killer 197 00:12:56.200 --> 00:13:02.480 of this person or that person. One case, we found 198 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:08.240 a he a woman who said that her father had 199 00:13:08.279 --> 00:13:13.120 abused her as as a child, and when double Jessey 200 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:17.000 junction came out, he didn't want to talk about it, 201 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:19.840 left the room in a hop at one point when 202 00:13:19.879 --> 00:13:21.840 somebody asked him a question about that, Hey, didn't you 203 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:27.320 used to live in that neighborhood And subsequently this man, 204 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:32.240 uh moved down to Florida where a little girl was 205 00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:37.919 murdered and the composite drawing of the suspect was a 206 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:40.919 dead ringer for him. So I mean, and that's that's 207 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:43.240 the way we get. We've been pulled into these cases 208 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:46.840 in a lot, in a lot of instances, uh, where 209 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:51.879 we were interviewing people for either Double Jessey Junction or 210 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:57.080 Nightmare in Rochester, the double initial murders, and people said, well, 211 00:13:57.120 --> 00:13:58.759 you know, while you're looking at that, you should look 212 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:01.159 at this one as well. I think if you go 213 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:02.960 through the names that you read at the beginning of 214 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:05.960 the show, you'll find a disproportionate number of them are 215 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:09.960 women with the same first and last initial. And that's 216 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:12.519 not to say that those cases are connected in any way, 217 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.399 but those were the cases that were referred to us 218 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:17.840 because if you look for double initial cases, here's one, 219 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:22.399 and that's how we started. I'm sure Smoyer and Jack 220 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:30.279 King and thegi in the book are really they're mostly female. 221 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:33.960 There are a couple of males thrown in one because 222 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:36.360 he was, you know, with a female apparently somebody was 223 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:40.440 mad at But I think females make the most haunting victims. 224 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:44.639 In true crime. The oldest case was the Joan In 225 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:46.759 case from nineteen forty nine, but the most recent was 226 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:50.759 twenty fifteen. They thought, the thing they have in common 227 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:54.200 really is that they get under your skin. And these 228 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:56.799 are cases that you'll be thinking about long after you're 229 00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:58.600 done reading what I wrote about them. 230 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:05.879 Yeah, you write very very eloquently about that. Cops know 231 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:09.639 how it feels the heaviness of their cases on their souls, 232 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:14.960 how these atrocities chip away at their notions of a civilization. 233 00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:18.720 The victims' families know buried in their necks in a 234 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:23.639 nightmare that won't end. They understand the discomforing power of 235 00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:28.799 haunting homicides. It's so very appropriate name. Let's talk about 236 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:34.879 Pamela Moss at fourteen from Penfield, New York, and she 237 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:39.679 was in the ninth grade in nineteen sixty two. She 238 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:42.200 was planned to go to the mall. And this is 239 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:45.519 a good kid, active in Girl Scouts and volunteering. Tell 240 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:49.879 us what happens on that day with plans to go 241 00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:52.039 to the mall Palas. 242 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:56.360 Yeah, Pamela came home that day and had plans to 243 00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:58.679 go to the mall with her girlfriend who had to 244 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:01.519 pick up a new pair of glasses, and when she 245 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:06.120 got home, she called her girlfriend and girlfriend said, my 246 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:08.559 glass isn't ready yet. My mom says I can't go. 247 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:14.360 So Pamela, without telling anyone, decides she was going to 248 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:17.279 go to the mall by herself. And she lived at 249 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:20.279 the end of a dead end street in a recently 250 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:26.279 built suburban housing area, and the way it was set 251 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:30.440 up to follow the main roads to the mall was 252 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:33.159 a mile further than if you just took the shortcut 253 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:38.200 through the woods right, So she needed to get back 254 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:41.440 in time for a babysitting job that she had that evening, 255 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:46.679 so she decided to go through the woods, and her 256 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:50.519 partially clad body was found in a water filled gravel 257 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:54.159 pit two miles from the Moss home. Her head was 258 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:57.159 in eighteen inches of muddy water and her feet were 259 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:00.000 on the shoreline. Partially Covering the body was a water 260 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:02.919 logged four foot wooden ladder that looked like it had 261 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:05.880 been in the water for some time. Body wore a 262 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:09.160 bron a pullover blouse. The underwear and shorts were found 263 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:13.079 one hundred feet away on the side of a steep hill. Now, 264 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:17.240 unlike many of the cases in this book, this one 265 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:22.359 was solved. The hunt for Pamela Moss's killer developed into 266 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:26.519 the largest manhunt in Monroe County history up until that time. 267 00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:30.559 Lucky Land Casino asking people what's the weirdest place you've 268 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:31.279 gotten lucky? 269 00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:32.000 Lucky? 270 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:34.480 In line at the Delhi I guess ah, in my 271 00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:36.359 dentist's office more than once. 272 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:38.079 Actually do I have to say? 273 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:38.480 Yes? 274 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:38.720 You do? 275 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:41.480 In the car before my kid's PTA meeting? 276 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:42.039 Really? 277 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:42.519 Yes? 278 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:43.319 Excuse me? 279 00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:45.119 What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 280 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:46.720 I never win in tell? 281 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:47.880 Well, there you have it. 282 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:50.720 You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslots dot 283 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:53.519 com play for free right now? Are you feeling lucky? 284 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:55.759 No, We're just necessary foot were gonna be eighteen plus terms, 285 00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:57.240 conditions plus eyins. 286 00:17:57.400 --> 00:17:59.720 Hello, it is Ryan and we could all use an 287 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:02.079 extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we just to 288 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:04.960 make up for things like city in traffic, doing the dishes, 289 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:07.720 counting or steps, you know, all the mundane stuff. That 290 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:10.240 is why I'm such a big fan of Chumba Casino. 291 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:13.720 Chumpbuck Casino has all your favorite social casino style games 292 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:17.839 that you can play for free, anytime, anywhere with daily bonuses. 293 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:20.400 That's your bright new day lowe actually a lot, so 294 00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:23.839 sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com. That's Chumbuck 295 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:24.720 Casino dot com. 296 00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:26.480 No necessary day. 297 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:29.200 I lost the terms conditions eighteen plus. Unlike most of 298 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:35.000 the murders that we deal with here, we have a name. 299 00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:36.480 We have a name to put with the with the 300 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:41.000 horrible child molester and killer. He is James Robert Moore, 301 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:44.160 and he was working as a landscaper next door to 302 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:48.200 the Moss House. Moore's criminal record was enough to make 303 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:51.640 your skin crawl. He'd been released from probation in June 304 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:55.400 sixty two after a November nineteen sixty convention conviction in 305 00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:59.599 Erie County for molesting two young girls in Depew, That's 306 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:03.680 a Buffer suburb. Moore was charged with third degree assault 307 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.559 for the debut crime and given a sixty day suspended sentence. 308 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:09.319 He was sent to. 309 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:13.200 Meyer Memorial Hospital in Buffalo for observation, and his eventual 310 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:16.400 probation terms required him to regularly see a psychiatrist, which 311 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:20.759 he did after he moved from Cheektowaga to Webster, which 312 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:25.759 is a town just east of Rochester. He arranged to 313 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:31.039 see a psychiatrist at Strong Memorial Hospital. Rochester's number one hospital, 314 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:33.400 and at that point he was allowed to take a 315 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:36.680 job trimming hedges next door to the Mosses, where he 316 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:39.200 could keep an eye on the comings and goings of Pamela, 317 00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:44.079 who was a pretty little girl. Now Moore is still alive. 318 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:47.440 He is the senior resident of the New York State 319 00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:51.160 Penal System. He's now been behind bars for the killing 320 00:19:51.160 --> 00:19:54.559 of Pamela Moss for fifty six years. 321 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:55.680 Wow. 322 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:59.319 Now that was the last murder in Penfield. It's a 323 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:02.839 very nice time until the two thousand and three murder 324 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:06.599 of Tabitha Bryant by her husband and brother, a crime 325 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:09.599 that became the subject of my first true crime book 326 00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:14.359 many years ago, called Betrayal and Blood. The Pamela Moss 327 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:18.079 case was solved just in time for the Monroe County 328 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:22.119 Sheriff's office new headline grabbing mystery, the murders of Shuri 329 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:23.880 Smoyer and Jack King. 330 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:32.920 Yes, what was the you include some of the things 331 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:37.359 that how he confessed the police and what he told 332 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:40.920 police very disturbing. 333 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:45.839 What he aded to he stalked her, you know, he 334 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:48.839 knew that she took the shortcut to go to the mall, 335 00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:52.119 even though the girls weren't supposed to, but they all 336 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:57.119 did because it was such a time saver round trip. 337 00:20:57.160 --> 00:20:59.359 It would cut forty five minutes off of your walk. 338 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:06.640 He jumped her in the middle of the woods. He 339 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:12.319 raped her, he strangled her to death, and then he 340 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:15.039 wrapped her up and put her in his pickup truck 341 00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:20.759 and drove her to the landfill where he dumped her 342 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:24.119 body on the opposite side of the landfill from where 343 00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:27.680 men were usually working, which is why the body wasn't 344 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:28.559 found more quickly. 345 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:34.720 Right, you right too? That he has now's a parole 346 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:37.880 hearing every two years, but he's been denied nineteen He 347 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:41.240 was denied nineteen times. Last time was twenty eighteen. 348 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:46.480 So well, the judge that sentenced him said that he 349 00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:49.400 was getting life in prison without the chance of parole 350 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:54.160 in lieu of a death sentence. Right, so that even 351 00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:58.240 though the parole rules have changed since then, You know what, 352 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:02.480 the new judge who's hearing the case always goes along 353 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:05.519 with the original judge the discuss should never ever see 354 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:08.039 the outside of a prison again for any reason. And 355 00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:09.400 he hasn't and I don't think. 356 00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:09.880 He will. 357 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:16.440 Now, you say. Hours later, after this sentence was handed down, 358 00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:19.839 Jack King and Sherry Smoyer were killed. This is particularly 359 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:24.640 interesting case because of your involvement and the contact that 360 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:29.240 you had with King's niece. Tell us about Jack King 361 00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:30.519 and Sherry Smoyer. 362 00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:35.759 Sure, Jack King and Shree Smoyer were a young couple. 363 00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:40.400 On Saturday night, July thirteenth, nineteen sixty three, went to 364 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:42.839 a drive in movie on a date to see the 365 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:47.559 three plus hour film Mutiny in the Bounty with Marlon Branda. 366 00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:51.720 Because of the length of the movie, I'm sure he 367 00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:54.359 had to get a special curfew for that night. I 368 00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:58.039 think she got to be home by one am. But anyway, 369 00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:01.759 the kids never made it home and they were found 370 00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:04.880 shot to death the next morning on a really really 371 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:09.720 hard to find Lover's Lane near Pittsford, New York. Now 372 00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:12.920 here's a fun fact, you know, fun with quotation marks 373 00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.880 around it. I grew up about a mile from that 374 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:19.119 drive in, and I remember going with my mom and 375 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:22.200 dad I was six to see Mutiny on the Bounty 376 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:25.519 at the Starlight drive in. You know, I don't I 377 00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:27.599 don't know if the Bensons went the same night as 378 00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:32.480 Jack and Suie, but we might have. And the other 379 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:37.119 interesting point about this case is that the cover of 380 00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:41.119 Haunting Homicides is based on the Marquis of the Starlight 381 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:44.920 Drive In was adapted by my daughter as the title 382 00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:47.200 and byline for the book, which I think gives it 383 00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:50.039 a striking and different look. I don't know if any 384 00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:53.319 other book it quite looks like Haunting Homicides. It's kind 385 00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:57.759 of a spooky cover. By the way, we know that 386 00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.480 we know that Smoyer and king At actually went to 387 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:04.359 the movies that night because there was a witness who 388 00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:08.640 saw Sherry at the concession stand at about nine to 389 00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:11.519 fifty pm. And the witness was a good one. She 390 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:16.000 was a twenty year old Carol Beachy. She had been 391 00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:23.000 Smayer's former West High West High School classmate. She easily 392 00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:26.400 recognized Seri and vice versa. They waved at one another. 393 00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:31.720 Sherry seemed upbeat and there was no evidence of a problem. 394 00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:36.640 The movie ended at one five am, but for those 395 00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:40.599 who fell asleep there could have been confusion because immediately 396 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:43.680 following the first showing, the first half of the movie 397 00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:47.720 was shown again for the benefit of latecomers, so the 398 00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:51.400 theater didn't go dark that morning until two forty am. 399 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.680 No authorities would soon learn that there were two witnesses 400 00:24:57.160 --> 00:25:00.279 with a reason to recognize King's car, who he saw 401 00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:04.599