Speaker 1: You're listening to seven Sanctum and the Parlement you keep
ready on your.
Speaker 2: Hello. I'm Kerrie Ann and welcome. This is seventh Sanctum.
Thank you so much for joining us this evening, and
today we are joined by my usual co host Natalie.
Hello Natalie, how are you?
Speaker 3: I am all right, still defrosting after doing the horses
in the cold.
Speaker 2: But it definitely has got to that time of year,
isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and it's snow.
Speaker 3: Yes, I have not ready for that. It's not ready
for that.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, we've gone from having quite a mild winter,
so just wearing card against the snow.
Speaker 3: What well, what day? But yes, but.
Speaker 2: We've been enjoying this evening with Graham Gardener. Thank you
Graham for joining us.
Speaker 1: It's a pleasure.
Speaker 2: And I have finouncial last name correctly, haven't I Gardener?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Oh perfect. I'm always aware that a mispronounced name sometimes,
so I'd like to make sure I've got that right.
Thank you so much for joining us. It's really really
nice to have you with us and really looking forward
to know a lot about you. When we have guests
that come onto the show, we always start on a
kind of an overview a little bit about you and
what led you to talking to us tonight, your journey
a little bit.
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, well, I presume you're wanting to chrism me
on my doz acknowledge and my experiences in that field.
I kind of got into this when I was in
my teenage years, which was way back in the last century,
and I read I've been reading what's of books just
trying to find my way in the world and look
for a path to follow, and a few of the
books I came across were those about dozing. So there
was also at that time you used to see the
odd article on television about it. I particularly remember Tomorrow's
World segment, you know, in the Science program, where they
were showing the military doing some dowsing for explosives. So
I thought, well, this is interesting. I should give this
a shot. So I went and made myself a pair
of angle rods, was using a pair of wire coat
hangers that I stole of the wardrobe and put in
a couple of plastic viral pencases, and I went out
on my bicycle to you know, find some hilch to practice,
and proved to my own satisfaction, I was dowsing for water,
and it all went on from there. I didn't really think,
you know, living in Scotland as I do, that there
was much of a career as a water diviner because
you know, we're not short of water up here, so
I didn't really do a lot with it. I would
do a little bit of pendulum dowsing maybe, but not
in any serious way. I used to read tarot cars
quite a lot. I would use say the pendulum in
conjunction with that. And it wasn't really until I, uh
in nineteen ninety nine when I went down to Cornwall
to see the total sold eclipse then and we were
staying at an Oak Dragon Camp, which was a geomancy
themed camp, and I met lots of dowsers there from
the British Society of Dowsers, And that was when I
sort of realized that all these things I've been doing
all these years, like you know, I always like going
around ancient sites and stone circles and exploring these alternative
energies and things. I realized all these things could be
held under this banner of geomancy, which is not a
time I do some till that point. So that was
where it all came together for me really and I
signed up to do some training with Sega Wondergrant and
Patrick mcmanaway, who were two of the facilitators of the
Oak Dragon Camp at that time, and I went on
to some professional training with them. That was about eighteen
months or so down in Glastonbury. On and off. It
was several long weekends and after that I joined the
British Society of dose Uts. A couple of years later
I find myself co opted as a trustee and council member.
Five years later I find myself being elected president. So
do it really does often doors for you. It really
does change your life.
Speaker 3: It is a career path in the end.
Speaker 1: Well, it's something like that. I wouldn't call it h
It's not exactly playing the bills. You know.
Speaker 3: It's more of a vocational thing rather than a mundetary thing,
isn't it.
Speaker 1: Dowsing Yeah, completely, The whole gemoance thing is a completely
vocational It's a calling to go and do it.
Speaker 3: I have to admit the old coat hanger dowsing rods
amused me because that those were my first dowsing robs.
It's when we go on ghost ons now and everyone's
got these fancy brass things, and I was just like,
I miss my My first pair I think was made
out of coat hangers, but my second pair was made
out of the sheep netting. Yeah, we're in Wales, so
it was easier to dismantle them because you know how
the sheep netting is like a grid and then so
I could just sort of like slot it into the
wired that was wound round and then just dismantle them.
So yeah, I was very professional with my with my
biro and sheep sheep netting. Yeah, better that way. I
preferred that I missed them. I don't know what happened
to them in the end, but I do miss having
them because, like you say, all the fancy ones and
it looks more professional, I guess, but they're more fun
I think in biros.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's good to have nice tools. Something wrong
with that, but you know, anything that moves is it
can be a dosing tool doesn't have to be fancy
at all, you know. I mean my my predecessor as
b S president, Patrick mcmanaway, who is still a professional
gem answer, he uses a nuts on a piece of string.
Speaker 3: I see a nut, you know, we just like like
conquers almost.
Speaker 1: Still, that's still.
Speaker 3: I thought I was thinking like a peanut on the
end of it from Brazil.
Speaker 1: Not that's what I was.
Speaker 3: To be fair, right, there's all sorts of It's like
I've dosed lead ropes up on the yard with the
horses and my keys in the supermarket and stuff. It's
like I just like, like say, necklaces or anything that
wheels rounded a circle do the job. But yeah, you
sort of like have to. I used to. I used
to quite like the thing, you know, the finger dousing
where you put your fingers into a ring and then
try and open them more or yeah, no one, I
do that quite a lot because you can do it
under the table or in your pocket so you don't
look like too crazy, like having something it's like winging
around when you're in the supermarket trying to decide which
bread to have.
Speaker 1: You finger together.
Speaker 3: Oh really, I've not tried that one?
Speaker 1: Yeah sticks? Sure, Yes, If it doesn't stick, that's your.
Speaker 3: Oh I'll definitely try that one next. Because yeah.
Speaker 2: So just for those that are listening that aren't familiar
with the chain link rings and what explain that a
little bit more. What does that look like and what
can someone experience when they're getting a yes, Now, okay,
you make.
Speaker 1: A chain out of both your hands and your thumb
and forefingers, so they link together and you try and
pull them apart, and while you're asking your question, like
if you're in a supermarketing, say you know it's this
particular food item going to be beneficial to my health,
and you do the trying to pull them apart, and
if your chain brakes and become apart, then that's a
no response. If they say stuck together, that's a yes response.
You can also do in a supermarket, which is even
more subtle. You can just ask the question and if
you find yourself gently leaning forward towards the item, then
that's your yes, or you might find yourself leaning back
slightly and that's your low.
Speaker 3: Is that I assume that's a sort of slightly more
subtle vision of the body dowsing. They tend to paranormal investigation.
Speaker 2: We yeah, we do. We call it the human pendulum,
So we do them quite a lot. We find that
they are quite fruitful when we do public events, in particular,
especially if we have young people that are a little
bit skeptical, and it's an experience that they can have.
Sometimes it works, sometimes doesn't. But it's quite interesting. Thank
you so much for sharing that. And I think as well,
we think a little bit about dowsing, especially the ring
on the chain. We can see that in history, isn't
it when we think about midwives many many many moves ago.
That's how you would have found out if he was
having a go or boy using the chain. The ring
on a chain, isn't it? Or the pin actually, isn't
it a pin that they used to use a chain?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw there's a YouTube video on a farmer
who's dozing. Whether it has used are pregnant using a
nail on the end of a piece of string. It
just dangles all they used back and if it goes
I think it's sad to side across the body, then
she's pregnant. So and he's apparently very accurate with that.
You know, there's there's all sorts of stuff. There's there's
people in India. I've seen dosers just holding a coconut
in their hand, just balancing a coconut upright on the
pounds of their hand and walking across the field and sorry,
a coconut live flat on their hand and as you
get to the water and the coconut will stand up.
Really yeah, you can do. You can do with a
raw egg as well. The same thing happens.
Speaker 3: Okay, what do you lie the Do you just like
lye it on your hands? Sideway hand?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Forward?
Speaker 3: Oh wow, I might have to try that one as well.
Then I think I'd be lethal with the cake.
Speaker 1: Cannot But I mean the thing you have to remember
with all these dosing tools, it's you know that the
magic is not in the tool. It's you that's the
body is doing the dosing. The tool is just amplifying
your body's response. So like with the elros with the pendulum,
you know, it's it's just the movements and your own
muscles that are causing the reaction. And the skeptics here,
this is why your dosing doesn't work. It's just this
if your mortal response. They call it it's a subconscious stimulus.
But what's more interesting is where's the subconscious getting the
simulus from. Yes, I will accept it as a subconscious stimulus.
It's making the muscle twitch, But where's the subconscious getting
the information from?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Because it's just like the equivalent of using a
microscope to magnify what you can't see exactly exactly similar principle.
Have you ever I know this is going to be
a complete aside, but it's just popped into my head.
Are you saying about like you can doubt of anything.
I used to have a pendulum made out of tomlinated quartz,
and I used to call it my battle pendulum because
I used to use it when I was dealing with entities.
And I put it down on the side and it disappeared,
NICs really disappeared. And I've had it have me a
couple of times with them a necklace as well, and
it was there and then it wasn't and I never
found it ever again. And it's like and when you
put it down on the side in view and you
turn your way and turn back again, and it's not
there anymore. Have you ever had anything like that happen?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, that was pendulums all the time. So yeah,
so I don't I don't use expensive crystal pendulums. I
like to keep it fairly simple. My favorite is actually
a little brass Egyptian Isis pendulum. That's that's my favorite
pendulum because just gonna like the motion of it and
that's disappeared a couple of times famously, Once when I
was dozing a client and I was out in the garden.
Of course, from you're dozing client, you know you've got
a clipboard, you put your ail roads, you've got a pendulum,
and you've got a pen other gadgets you might have
to deal with. So you know, I've we on lots
of pockets all the time. So I'm out there and
I had the pendulum. I put it on the clipboard
to get something out my pocket. I went back. Pendulums gone.
I was only the clipboard flat, just gone, and I
dozed around. I thought, oh, well, I must have just
dropped it. Here could I find it. I got my
eldrows out, tried to dose it. Nope. Nothing. Two years later,
the client phoned it when she was taking the cartoon,
so she sent her back to me. So I did
get it back eventually.
Speaker 3: Oh at least it didn't disappear. Yeah, Because like you said,
I got a bit sick of buying them after a while.
I used to find as well. With the crystal ones,
it didn't matter what I did, what size they were,
whether they were little ones, big ones, what kind of
crystal they were. I always ended up breaking the tip
off of them. Do I know how? But every single
one is broken and the oh no, even my glass
one actually, I think it's got the end missing off
of it. I'm just clumsy. Whether it was like the crystals,
you know, the energy of it is just I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's yep, why I don't use crystal pendulum, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can Yeah, I can see why. I was
always a bit conflicted about using the crystals. Like I
say in my back of pandul, I found quite handy
at the time, but all my other ones have just
been like you know, like you say, after a while,
it seems to burn them out as well.
Speaker 1: So it's yeah, I mean, also crystals you need to
maintain them regularly, and you know that you can program
and they can't store the on information pattern. So you know,
for me, the pendulum is just a tool. So I
don't really need to go down that road off having
a crystal and programming and cleansing it all the time.
You know, I'll just pick up whatever a pendulum i've got.
Speaker 3: That's a lot more practical, isn't it. Really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a very practical person.
Speaker 3: It's like saying a bit of a bit of strings
easy to replace rather than exactly Yeah, that's the shop
every five minutes.
Speaker 2: But I think as well, making your own tools or creating,
I just find a little bit more of a connection
with them.
Speaker 1: I suppose.
Speaker 2: I've even made some pendulums and the string is my
own hair, so I just yeah, I think sometimes creating
your own tools as well just adds to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that has a very personal connection with you. I
mean I do make dozing rods. I make more than
dozing rods, but I seldom so yeah, I mean brass
and bar swords. I have actually made some pendulums when
I bought the actual pendulums that are with turning friend
and made for me. So I was stringing them up
and putting pizza on them and stuff. Bobbers. A lot
of people make bobbers to use bobbers as well. But
is that like the one with the It's like a
one with a spiral in the in the length of
it and away on the end. It's like a It's
kind of like a horizontal pendulum. You just wipe it
up and down and it will go in a circle,
or I'll go side to side.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've seen I did an equine healing course with
Felicity Wilson down in Wilts. She was the main one
that was like doing different dowsing things. I've seen her
using the bobbers when she was with the horses, but
I never actually I couldn't wrap my head around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just it's just like a vertical pendulum, horizontal
pendul brother, Yeah, it's in one hand, waggle up and
down and it does it's thing.
Speaker 3: I think that's the thing. It's like watching it we
go up and down on its own is quite a bizarre.
You know, with a hanging pendul and you kind of
expect to see it go side to side. But when
you're sort of holding this sort of light, little tiny
fishing rub thing and it sort of suddenly starts going crazy,
it's quite bizarre to watch.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, no, you actually physically started like a pendulum.
You should physically start it as well, because if you're
just sitting over your pendulum hanging on a piece of
string waiting for something to happen, you know, it takes
a long time before anything happens, and if you're asking
a lot of questions, that's very time consuming. You should
started swinging and you develop your own system. So most people,
if you started swinging back and forward towards you and
away from you, you say that's your neutral position, and
then when you ask your yes response, it'll go one
side or the other. Like for me, it'll go clockwise
for yes, anti clockwise for no. Some people will go
side to side for no, particularly American dosers, because they're
sent to be trained that way. But clockwisewise is my
reactions for that.
Speaker 3: M it's have you I've lost my train of thought now.
I was going to ask a question, Garry, if you've
got anything else to say before my question comes back
to me, I've lost my train of thought completely. It's derailed.
You're on mute.
Speaker 2: I think that when we're thinking a little bit about
energy and land and location, and you'd already touched upon
some of these locations having higher vibrations and others depending
on where they are and what's being done. It reminds
me a little bit of some reading that I did
quite a long time ago. I found girls a little
bit over. A researcher called Consultine character cough consulting character cough, Yes,
and he did a lot of work around geo mapping,
and he looked at locations where you could have one area.
You might be familiar with his work, but he hit
one area that could be have a higher there's a
lot of adversities that happen in one location because of
the vibration of that area. For example, there was a
cross crosswalk in America that seemed to have a higher
rate of fatalities and lots of versities that are going
on in the homes around it in comparison to the
crosswalk that was not so far down the road. So
thinking a little bit about that, I just wanted to
I wondered your faults and about what makes these locations
have a different vibration and how that can.
Speaker 1: Impact Well, yeah, this is really what geomancy is all about.
But this is what I do professionally. You know, most
of my work is almost my paid workers and healing
sack hoses, whereas people's houses are built in an inappropriate
energy spot. So this is what the dosing enables us
to go and detect. And it's not something that's news
been you know, people have known about this since the
nineteen twenties. They used to call it unhealthy Earth unhealthy
telluric radiations or noxious earth rays. Nowadays about geopathic stress,
but you know, it's not a new thing. If I
give you the very basic picture of the earth energies.
If you think of underground water flows, they actually do
create geopathic stress. By their interaction with the rock that
they're flowing through. You get a sort of piezzo electric
geomagnetic distortion that rises above the water vein. And if
you have your bed over that, for example, you know
that's a very sort of draining energy to be on.
It's very yin energy. So over a long period of
time you tend to find your immune system gets compromise,
and you know, little allments become more chronic and so on,
an illness develops. The other side of it is the
energy lays or laylis as both people would call them,
which are kind of above ground or just below the
surface flow of more of a yang energy. So you know,
I might call them like water dragons and earth dragons,
or sometimes air dragons, depending where it is. But the
lay energy is very sort of energizing. In fact, it's
quite a good thing to have in your temple space,
or in your meditation room, or even in your work
space because it is that sort of yang energy that
again not good to have under your bed because it
stopped you sleeping. Well, they tend to keep you awake.
So we need to find spots for especially for our beds,
because that's where we spend most of our time usually
when your immune system is trying to regenerate overnight. We
need to find spots that are balanced and neutral and
not affected by either of these you know, yang energies.
Speaker 3: And how.
Speaker 2: I'm not having a good time. How can someone be
able to be able to I know that this is
something that you do for your your profession in terms
of healing houses, but how would someone that is very
kind of new to this idol like ideology, how would
they be able to start becoming familiar with to whether
they've got their resting place in the wrong kind of
their bed, in the wrong kind of space.
Speaker 1: Well, the best way to detect these energies is to
learn to those and you know, get good at it.
It's not a quick path. You know, I've spent years
training in this and I've still learning stuff. You know,
it's not a quick path to do. It's like any
of these things, you have to sort of get a
feel for it yourself. You know, there's no amount of
watching YouTube videos or reading books or whatever can actually
teach you the basics. You have to get out there
and learn to do it yourself. You know, find the
doors or who can train you to do it. Get
out there and get hands on experience. Apprentice to somebody,
or go into training courses or workshops, whatever, you know,
whatever it takes. If you want to do it, you know,
you've got to put the work.
Speaker 2: In and there'd be signs with there. You said that
if you're for example, if your bed is in an
area where it's not compatible with a good night's sleep,
there would be indications. So you said about being poor
poor health, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean yeah. Often you know, when I
get a call is because the client has tried everything
else and they're just saying getting to the sort of
bottom of the tree. They don't know what else to try,
so they maybe hear about dozing or geomancy and they
will get in touch. I used to work with a
vibrational homeopath who would actually test for geopathic stress and
he would refer clients to me if if you find
geopathic stress in the rooms. Sadly, he passed away a
couple of years ago, so I don't have somebody to
work with at the moment. But that was really good
because you get feedback from them, you know, when I've
been done the work, and then they go back to
the homeopath and he can test them again. You know,
it's sort of information for them and for me it's
a good indication that I'm doing the work.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Oh howd Back over to Natalie.
Speaker 3: Thanks, Yeah, I was, I remember my question. It was.
It was back on the pendulums or doubting equipment. It's like,
have you ever had that happen a couple of times
where you've had where it starts giving silly answers and
it's sort of like almost like there's interference on it.
I just wondered if you'd ever had any experiences like that,
whether you think like this sort of the paranormal or
spirit realm or elemental realm can actually interfere at some point.
Speaker 1: Well times, yeah, yeah, sometimes it just depends how her
professional I think you've had about it. You know, there
are fairly extensive dosing protection protocols that people can use
that I use, Like before I go and do a job,
I go through a whole atiatment process and a protocol
just to make sure my energy is in a good
spot and I have energetic protection, so I'm aware of
anything like that happens. Yeah, you do get people getting
spirit attachments and stuff, and we have to deal with
that as well. That's another the part of the job
is tracking down these entities. So yeah, so if we
have geopathic stress under your bed, as one of the
ways that people will become aware of this is that
they're they're not sleeping well, or they're having disturbing dreams
that sort of thing, and you're working up feeling tired
or depressed. All these sort of symptoms quite subtle symptoms,
but they do build up over time and maybe you
think there's no reason why you're not sleeping properly, so
you start looking into these things. But generally, if you
don't have your bed situated in a neutral spot, you're
going to get something some disturbances like this happening. So
if you're sleeping over an underground water flow, then you
find that that's a very entraining yin energy, so it
drains your immune system. When you start getting a little
chronic ailments, and if you're sleeping over an energy flow
like a lake, then that has a more energizing effect,
and you love to getting to sleep. I can always
tell if I'm in a hotel and if it's on
the bed is on a lay line and I'm not sleeping,
so then I would have to get up and either
move the bed or do something to move the lay
energy out of the way. It's the same with water sometimes,
although I tend to be less sensitive to that when
I'm trying to get to sleep because it's your nature
and I fall asleep quicker as it's on its own
effects on that regard. So in terms of finding this,
you know, that's usually for people the first thing they
sort of notice. You need to really get into learning
dowsing in a serious basis. You know, it's not an
easy path just to pick up a pair of roads
and start treating this. You know, I spent many years
training for this. In fact, I'm still learning. So yeah,
you need to make a serious government to get out
there and apprentice with some some working dowsers who will
train you how to do this sort of stuff. Not
really something you can pick up from books of watching
YouTube videos. You know, you do need to get out
there and experience it for yourself. Learn to recognize the
feelings that you're you're experiencing when you're doing these situations.
You're doing this work, thank you.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say otherwise to ameliorate the lace. Then
if you are unable to move your bed or your
beddream around.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Most of the healing stuff you do with
using some sort of healing intention, you know, like you're
sending spiritual healing or something. You can do things to lays.
You can block them temporarily using crystals, which is quite
handy in a hotel room situation. You can just block
or divert it using some I use the corps internally
works quite well. I find water a little bit trickier
to do, just on a temporary basis. And I say,
it's generally a layer of the bed that keeps me
awake at light if I'm in a hotel room. So yeah,
a couple of crystals the other side of the bed.
Various standards have various ways of healing this. Everything has
their own way of working, but ultimately it's a form
of spiritual healing. You're doing really just pretty your intention
into sorting out the situation.
Speaker 3: Okay, so they're in a way kind of way. It's
sort of like earth healing because you're accessing the energy,
the energy patterns of the Earth. So the amenable to
spiritual healing.
Speaker 1: As it's yeah, it's it's not in a weird sort
of way. It is exactly our feeling. Yeah, the the
energies of the Earth are very amenable to to working
with us in these ways. You know, because we are
all energy beings, we are all connected on some level
of some frequency. And with dowsing you can communicate with
pretty much ending. You can get it. You can get
it a dialogue with things with your pendulum, you know,
like you guys use rods for finding spirits and stuff.
You know, you can you can talk, you can ask questions,
you can get yes no responses from them, either with
your rods or other pendulum. So you can find out
if you come across a discarded spirits, you know, why
it's there, if it'd be happy to move on to,
you know, move off this plane onto its the next
level of existence. And if it is, then you can
get your pencil about it and go through a dowsing
protocol which will help you do that and remove the spirit.
You get this quite a lot. I mean, even as
a working geom answer you know less. So now when
I first started, it wasn't that experience. I quite often
would come away from a job having picked up some
entity or other. And you know, because I do have
other people that I trained with and we still meet,
you know, we are the Geomancy Group. So we have
this group of peers that I can call up and say,
you know, I think I picked something up, can you
check me? And they will check you remotely and remove
anything for you, you know. And I've had a couple
of calls. I mean there was one in particular. One
of our colleagues phone me when I was over in
Dublin and she said, I think I'll picked something up.
Can you can you check it for me? I said, well,
I'm really busy it's now, but I'll try and do
this afternoon when I get a break. And I went
out in the afternoon and I found a quiet spot
to sit down and did my dowsing protocol tuned into
her and yes, I did find an entity and I
did then remove it with my potential using the dosing.
Two minutes later, she phones me on the mobile. Let's
saying have you just done that? I felt something left,
you know, and I'm in Dublin and she's in London,
you know, so.
Speaker 3: That's quite nice when you get.
Speaker 1: Yet confirmations like that. It happens all the time the
more you do this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I remember reading. I honestly can't remember the sauce,
but they were there. I think it was a dowser.
We're saying that they suggest that there are things like
spirit paths. So they're sort of like you know how
laser earth energies, and you've got the water lines that
the spirit lines that ghosts and spirits tend to follow.
Speaker 1: Spirits tend to use lay lines as a source of energy.
Layers have a very sort of informational content, so you know,
they can carry intention that, they can carry human intent,
they can carry spirit intent. And we'll find that the
discardates will often get their energy from the lays. So
when you're doing house cleaning, you know, I have to
check that as soon as I get and if there
are any spirit activity is going on, and I needs
to deal with that before I deal with the geopadic stress,
because otherwise that's when you get attachments coming home with you.
You know, and you find out a couple of days
later that something's going on. I had a dog once,
I had a little dog attachment. It was quite friendly
and he hung about it and I just kept seeing
it like the corner of my eye in the house
for about three weeks, and eventually I just said, well
that you know, he shouldn't be could you please go away?
And he did so. Yeah, but you get you get
this all the time, these sort of things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I often wonder because it's like in my house.
I've in my bedroom, it's like I've got two corners
opposite sides, and it's like it drives me nuts because
I can't quite figure it out. It's they kind of
seem to come from one end, disappear, and then reappear
in the other corner and then out again. So we'll
hear a knock on one side and then a knock
on the other, but I'll not see them go down direct.
It's almost like they come in, pop out, go somewhere else,
and then pop back. And it's it's it's puzzled me
for years, but I was often wondered about, like whether
they have you know, what's the house in the wind Chester,
the mystery House, you know how it goes all over
the place. I often wondered whether there were like spirit
lines and they kind of zig zag in and out
of different dimensions, and maybe that's why they sort of
tend to appear, disappear, and reappear in the corner. And
like you say, perhaps the laths sort of facilitate facilitate that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and you portals as well, so they can
pop in and pop out again you get into dimensional portals.
One of my other gumas To colleagues had a hose
in Trickenham and she found her two teenage daughters and
just adolescent at the time, kept saying they were seeing
these strange men were included rooms in their bedroom at night,
just walking past the fid of the and she phoned
that the spirit room mixed to it seemed to have
the central dimensional portal at the end, and she did
a bit of digging. The site where the it was
built used to be a monastery. Okay, so yeah, so
our teenage daughters were seeing these these monks coming up
of this portal, appearing and then walking through their room.
Speaker 3: Monks were a bit confused.
Speaker 1: As well, they were, Yeah, you quite a lot of
stories like that.
Speaker 3: Do you do you find them that? You know? How
are you saying that the lays provide energy for spirit activity?
Do you find that a lot of the more deeply
disturbed houses tend to have stronger lays or more active lays, or.
Speaker 1: Or just more of them? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, or more of them or do you think some
of it it's like, you know how you say that
lay lines can pick up intention and energy, whether the
layers going through certain areas and it's picking up like
the energy of the people in the houses as it goes.
So you might start off with an okay lay at
one end, and by the time it's gone through the
housing estate at the other end, it's picked up a
lot of dross along the way. Do you find that absolutely?
Speaker 1: Yeah. You can often tell if there's a particularly badly
stressed house. You'll see signs in the neighborhood. You know,
we're just like listening in the streets, or lots of
griffety and general appearance of being run down, and you
can sometimes you can practically follow the trail. You know,
if there's a strong lay coming through the garden, you'll
often find this poor plant growth. The number of times
I've seen, you know, gaps in the hedges or holes
in the fence where the LA is coming through. You know,
you can you can often quite easily trace it across
quite a large distance. And it's difficult to deal with
situations like that because you know, if you're having to
deal with the client in the house that is troubled,
you don't really have the ethical permission to held the
whole neighborhood, you know, And that's that's quite a big job.
So yeah, often you might just go back up in
for that one.
Speaker 3: I was about to say, yeah, you don't want to
be doing that one on your own preferably.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no. And I've had a couple of ones of
that where I haven't managed to do it, where there
was a big cross country thing going on with spirits
walking along quite regularly that the client was seeing, and
I gave it my best shot, but I was only
there of just passing through on my way home, so
I didn't really have any time to spend over a
period of days working on it. So I give up
my best shot, and I was just getting into the
car and went, oh no, there it's back again. I
can see that, Okay, Well, I'm sorry, I'll just have
to write that one also failure.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's nice. That's the frustrating thing I found
about it sometimes as well. It's like you can't always
affect the cures the wrong word, but I suppose the
healing that you want, and it's it's sort of you know,
in places, it's almost like it's very no.
Speaker 1: It's very well, there's all these things you have to
take into account. You know, maybe you're just not meant
to be healing that spot. Maybe it has to be
that way for a reason.
Speaker 3: You know, it must be frustrating sometimes when you come
up against the robot like that, or you or if
you become quite philosophical about it over the years, it's
sort of well, you.
Speaker 1: Know, especially if you're being paid to go and fix
the house and you can't do it. You know, I say, well,
I'm sorry, I'm not going to charge it for this
because I don't think I've done anything. All I can
say is you don't sleep in that bedroom or move house.
So yeah, yeah, sometimes that's all you can do, you know.
You know, I find I find clients who were in
a house that was in a state, that was built
in the site of an old lunatic asylum. Oh wow,
and just about I think it was five out of
the eight houses in the streets where every day had
had some sort of cancer and you can trace the
line coming right through the houses, you know. So I
asked them to move, and they moved to another site
near a glove, which is actually almost as bad in
terms of the bad energy going through it. So it
seems that actually, you know, people get attracted to that
energy because they're used to it. Yeah, that's that's another thing.
If you do all the clearing, sometimes the client are
so used to having that energy that they'll call it
back in again unintentionally.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's quite curious. You see a lot of
stories on them, like in the paranormal world where people
will go to view a house and it will be
all light and sunshine and like this is our home,
this is our home, and then they move in. Yeah,
it starts, and it's like you wonder. I sometimes wonder
with things like that, are they is what's they're hiding
to attract them because they are attracted that energy, or
do they bring that energy with them or does their
presence activate something that somebody else wouldn't necessarily activate if
they were living in that house.
Speaker 1: It's it's yeah, kind of a checking the reg situation,
you know, did they bring it in or was it there? Yeah,
certainly a lot of the sort of psycho spiritual energy
gets gets stored in the fabric of the building that
there's an old building. You know. It's like a little
bit about the ghost being tape recordings. It's just the
same thing. It's appearing. There's the same oppeartition all the time,
you know, the women crossing the end of the room
or the green liny and at certain times of the
year maybe you know, these are all just like passive recordings.
I suppose some more active, quasi intelligent and spook type manifestation.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Do you have anything to ask Garry?
Speaker 2: I do, Actually I wanted to. I think everything that
we've spoken about is really interesting, and the paranormal is
really where it's my bag, that's where my fascination is,
and I think that's kind of what's influencing my next question,
based not so much about paranormal, is that we live
in quite going back to knowledge and gaining knowledge and experience,
we live in quite a far society where we want
everything to be at our hands kind of access to
information and knowledge that really should be gained over years.
Is there any misconceptions about the work that you do
that's shared in the community, that kind of if you
had the chance to put riot or to kind of
so much challenge because everyone's got their own unique way
of working. But yeah, that seems to be petuated through
that fast your interest and want for information.
Speaker 1: Yeah, stop calling them lay lines is my number one.
There are also I mean, what is a lay line?
You know, how do you define that? The classical if
you go back to Alfred Watkins who wrote the ull
Straight Track back in the nineteen twenties. So for us
looked into these alignments, who are just alignments of sites
in the landscape. It's only over the years that acquired
all these energetic connotations, you know, spirit paths or energy lays,
spirit walkways, all this sort of thing. So in the
purer dosing terms we talk about visually and energy lays.
So the energy lays are the ones that we are
interested in. The visual lays maybe the same thing may
coincide with an energy lay, but sometimes they don't. Sometimes
they are just an alignment of size. So but yeah,
it's a very confusing picture for people. I know I
do appreciate that.
Speaker 3: So so what would you call them? What did you
say you would call them? Then? Instead of lay lines,
just energy just lays.
Speaker 1: Energy lays. Energy lays are the dozable ones or our
visually or just a lay.
Speaker 3: Okay, can you tell us how you got into the
labyrinths building labyrinths?
Speaker 1: Well, that's that's the other side of the coin and
geo lancy, you know, as well as fixing these issues
in the secular context, we do actually like to enhance
people's ability to contact spirits the spirit world rather to
enhance their spirituality. So we get into things like constructing
sacred spaces, helping people build it on temple spaces, you know, well,
making little stone circles and back gardens or labyrinths. Labyrinths
are a fantastic sacred space to work with as well
and much loved of dowsers. Like dowsers love labyrinth because
they produce very interesting energies to dows Once the labyrinth
has been walked a few times, you get little energy
and vortices appearing in the middle levelm and things, and
so they good for ceremony, they're good for solo meditation.
They're also good for spirit release. You know, they're used
quite extensively in Scandinavia for that with the Baltic fishermen
who would build a labyrinth on the beach and then
they would walk very slowly into the center and they
would you know, bring their best intention for the voyage
they're about to do, and then they would run out
very quickly from the labyrinth and their attachment. Their trolls
are left in the center of the labyrinth because they
can't find the way I againt, because they're not like
that bright. So they're run out of the labyrinth, get on
the boats and go off to sea and leave all
their stuff behind.
Speaker 3: Well, let the bad look find its own way out
the labyrinth over. Basically, you imagine if we were going
on a cruise and we all had to like walk
a little labyrinth and then run to the ferry. It's
like you say, I mean a lot of it. Do
you think the actual labyrinth itself creates some of the energy,
or as you say, is the intention behind the line?
You know, how like you've got sacred geometry and things
like that. Do you think they have inherent energy patent
to them that gets.
Speaker 1: Actually, yes, it does, which is why you find in
you know, churches and temples and the great Gothic cathedrals,
which are full of sacred geometry. The frequencies that are
all the same, the numbers are all the same. You get,
you know, the sacred geometry, you get music, you get
astronomy and astrology. It's all using the same kind of
numerical basis for the definition methods. So if you're constructing
a space in proportions of sacred geometry, it's going to
have specific resonant properties, which is why like you know,
you get like plane song in cathedrals, you know, all
the sorts of chanting and all that. It's all enhanced
by the residents of the space. And that's all because
of the numbers. It's not because of the geometry.
Speaker 3: Okay, So when I was gonna say, when you build
a labyrinth, and do you use a lot of mathematical
astrological calculations or do you just doubt.
Speaker 1: It depends on the complexity of the labyrinth. I mean,
the traditional seven circuits creating labyrinth. You don't need geometry
for that. That's drawn from a very simple seat patron
thats be something more complex like the ones saying that
the one is short cathedral, which is in a living
circuit particular pattern. There's a lot of geometry involved in
producing that one. So it depends. Yeah, I mean I will.
Usually the ones I've been doing recently, I have had
a certain amount of geometry because I need to be
able to figure out where it's going to go on site.
I would usually like to include some sort of standing
stone set up somewhere so I may be marking a
particular alignment, you know. Like one of my first ones
I did where I calculated in a garden labyrinth, which
was a very small space and there was only really
one area that it was facing where I had any
view of the sky, which fortunately happened to be a whare.
The sunset happened on the client's birthday, so I put
in an alignment of standing stones with a big one
by the fence there, and we did the labyrinth opening
ceremony on that day. We actually constructed it in the morning,
did the opening ceremony at sunset, and as we finished,
we turned round and there was the sun sitting right
on the stone.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so that's that's all about. It's all about
connecting above and below. You know, you do the ceremony,
you do the astrology to work out at the best time,
you do these astronomical alignments, and it all just connects
Heaven and Earth. So all enhances hances the power of
the space.
Speaker 3: So it's actually quite a complex, it's quite in some way.
It kind of whey. Actually, the labyrinth type thing is
cerebral and the lab itself is very similar to the
patterns on top of the brain, aren't they. Yeah, yeah,
thinking about it, it's like say, it's kind of weird.
It's a mixture of sort of metaphysical and maps.
Speaker 1: You're not the first person to comment on the similarity
to the brain pattern on that one. Yeah, that's quite interesting.
But I mean, it's a really old pattern that really
knows where it came from. It seems to have happened
spontaneously in many cultures around the world. So whether there's
some you know, world traveler with going around and saying, hey,
look at this really neat pattern, I can teach you
how to draw this, or whether it came out independently,
we don't really know. But I mean, the thing about
a labyrinth is it's one path to the center you
don't need to think about where you're going, you know,
unlike a maze where you've got to make decisions. You know.
That's the kind of a left brain puzzle, whereas a
labyrinth it is more of a right brain meditation. You
can just switch off and just walk the path and
you will get to the center whether I'm to think
about at it, So it really frees your mind up
to contemplate, you know, the universe and any issues that
you have, you know. So yeah, they're really good tools
for meditation.
Speaker 3: Cool. Yeah, I'd love to. I've never actually walked one,
I'd like to say, reading your newsletter in that and
seeing like when you you you've built black prints and things,
I was like really curious about actually walking one and
seeing how it feels.
Speaker 1: Well, there's probably one near you. There's a website called
the Worldwide Labyrinth Locator, which I think is labyrinthlocator dot org,
but don't quote beyond that. So there's yeah, they will
probably tarya with there's one near you, yea, Because there
are lots and lots of labyrinths being constructed now like
more probably more so than ever in history. It's a
really popular thing, especially the medieval the Sharks pattern one.
There's a there's a whole movement that was founded by
Lauren Artres of Chris Cathedral in San francisc She really
popularized that particular pattern and goes around the training labyrinth
facilitators in how to use that. So in a sort
of Christian chotchy context, that's more of the sort of
one you're able to find will be the sharp pattern one.
But I kind of like the Seventh Circuit experience. I
just there's there's more connections I can make with the
seventh circuit because you know you've got like seven musical notes,
seven planets, a traditional planets, seven colors, all that you
can have more connections.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's more occult in nature that one, right, Yes,
more symbolic, that's the word I'm looking for. Yeah, theology
of it, Oh wow, No, I'm definitely going to go
on that Brince locator. That would be brilliant. Thank you.
Speaker 2: So you've spoken a little bit about the network of
all your circle and how no matter how far you're
always able to rely rely on that. We spoke a
little bit of about the attachments being able to develop
your skills having that circle around you. Is that really
important established. Is it something that people can do everything
we talk a little bit about witchcraft, we have a
solitary path. Is it something that someone could do solitary
or is it really important to have that circle amongst them.
Speaker 1: I think it's really important to go and train with somebody. Yeah.
I mean, you can spend years on your own. I mean,
you know I did before I came across all the doses.
You can spend years on your own and you think
you're doing okay, but then you meet somebody else and
you go, oh wow, I don't know you could do
that with it, you know. And even talking about witchcraft
and all that, I mean, that's a lot easier for
people to learn because it's more in the open. But
you know, back in the day, you had a lot
of trouble finding something to work with. You had a
lot of trouble finding books about it even, And you're
belially at all these these these things that you can
do with your mind, all these energetic things that you
can do. But until you actually experience that for yourself,
you know, you can't really get a handle on what
it is. But it's not something you can learn from
a book. You know. This is why you know, in
the old days they called it the mysteries. You've got
to be there, you've got to feel that, you've got
to know what that means, you know, and it's hard
to do that on your own. I think it's.
Speaker 3: Almost like you need an attunement, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yes, but like like a radio trinment, if you like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you know, by being around somebody
that is already attuned, it's easier for you to sort
of connect to what is actually there rather than sort
of having to guess because you don't know what you
don't know, do you? And so it's like that's why
the mentorship thing is so useful sometimes with things like this. Yeah,
it's really interesting. You've got a book on dowsing with
Siguls Magic. I think I don't think I've read that one.
I've got one, but I don't think i've read that
one yet.
Speaker 1: I've got Magic Books one and two.
Speaker 3: That's I think I've read book too, because that was
one more about the Earth energies, wasn't it. And yeah, yeah, yeah,
I definitely that one. I saw the other day on
Amazon that there was one on Schigel Magic. I think dowsings, Yeah,
that came out of I did a workshop for the.
Speaker 1: American Society of Doss a few years back now on
sigels and absolutely loved it because those had never come
across centels before. I'm thinking, well, this is really old part.
Surely know about scheduls, but no, they did not know
about situls. So I did this workshop and how you
can use your dosing to energize your signals sigils, and
everybody thought this was the best thing since sliced bread.
They all loved it and said, Gramy, you really need
to write a book about this. Well why not. That's
a good idea, So I did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, I definitely needed to look up that
because I got quite interested in sigels after reading I
think it was the end of Freeze book on and
then I saw yours and I was like, oh, you know,
it's like that was seeing and schedules. It's like that
would be interesting. So yeah, it's with this. Are these
schedules like pre existing ones that you were using then?
Speaker 1: Or no? You make your schgul thank you?
Speaker 3: Right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, accoman to your intention. Yeah. So you can buy
the book from my website. There's also a video watshop
of the watch shop you can get you can rent
or buy that from my wat shop from my website.
Speaker 2: Oh that one next, Yeah, that leads We're coming to
the end of the podcast now, and I think it'd
be really interesting. I know that that's referenced a a
newsletter that comes out to her as well. So what
are yeah, please share what?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I don't do a newsletter. I do a mailing
list when I've got something happening. So you can say
not to my bailing list on my website and you'll
get a little you know, circular thing. It's usually just
when I've got a course coming up, I'll send you
like I've got a course coming up this weekend U
which is going to be the last one this year
because it's pretty cold, and that is the sort of
final one. In the house Healing training, there are three
levels to that, beyond the beginner's course. There's three levels
of house Healing Training and Earth Energy working and this
will be the last one, which is about dealing with
spirits and you know, interdimensional energies. So after that that
will be all other batch of people who will be
out in the world. I wanted to do this sort
of stuff.
Speaker 3: Oh brilliant, so.
Speaker 1: Well, so yeah, I mean I try it. It's very
rare to get the whole five courses in one year
because beyond this there's another two courses that go into
the Temples building. Yeah, it's very rare. I get all
five done in a year. I'm lolucky to get three
done in the year.
Speaker 3: Usually nice, good year.
Speaker 1: Then uh yeah, no, this was They've been waiting a
year for this last course. This should have happened last
year and it didn't.
Speaker 2: You have you publishing your books as well, and you
said that you do a podcast, So where can people
find your podcast?
Speaker 1: I do a podcast. It's that Adventures Indozing dot com.
There's about sixty eight. I've got another couple I need
to do in the can actually, but I'm actually running
out of storage space on the website, so you need
to find a solution to that. Yeah. So yeah, its
it started off with me trying to teach subody to dose.
See if you can do it with the podcast, and
it's developed over my years as president of the Producer Society,
with your talks of speakers and things and interviews with
other doses that I come across in my travels.
Speaker 3: Cool, fascinating, absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 1: Yes, it was the internet's first and dozing podcast.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah cool. Oh I love that.
Speaker 2: Oh well, thank you so much for joining us to
save me, and thank you so much for answering our
questions and sharing your knowledge. We will be sharing links
to where people can find you once the podcast is
available for streaming, so people can follow those and have
a look at what you've got available and also look
at some of your courses as well, which that last
one that you've got coming up. I'm sure all of
them are relevant, but in terms of paranormal research as well,
this would be a really interesting course in terms of
the work that we do, especially those, if I'm going
to go a little bit on my soapboxer, especially those
paranormal teams that go into private locations that investigate and
then just come away.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think knowledge is needed so much there. Absolutely we
have private residences that just want to know what's going on.
But I think sometimes when a paranormal team goes in
kind of redes a research and says, yes, there's something
can know there is and then kind of walks away
from it, I don't feel like they heal anything I
don't feel like they make anything better either, so that
would be really interesting. So we'll definitely share that on
our pages as well. So thank thank you so much
for joining us, and we look forward to seeing what
else you got coming up.
Speaker 1: Great talking to you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: So we're going to say good night and we will
see you guys next time.
Speaker 3: Bye bye bye