WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.720
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's jump into another deep dive. This time

2
00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:04.080
<v Speaker 1>it's into something pretty unique.

3
00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:05.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely unique.

4
00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:08.640
<v Speaker 1>The International Journal of Proof of Concept or Get.

5
00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:11.400
<v Speaker 2>The Fuck Out PAC or GTFO for short.

6
00:00:11.279 --> 00:00:14.519
<v Speaker 1>Exactly PAC or GTFO. We've got a whole stack of

7
00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:17.000
<v Speaker 1>articles here, and they're all about hacking.

8
00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:22.160
<v Speaker 2>And vintage tech and some seriously impressive engineering.

9
00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:23.839
<v Speaker 1>It's a really cool mix it is.

10
00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:27.679
<v Speaker 2>This issue is curated by well, they call themselves Pastor

11
00:00:27.719 --> 00:00:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Manul Lafrag. Quite a name, right, and they have some

12
00:00:32.520 --> 00:00:35.880
<v Speaker 2>pretty strong opinions. Oh yeah, about the current state of

13
00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:37.000
<v Speaker 2>software exploitation.

14
00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:38.479
<v Speaker 1>You could say that again.

15
00:00:38.679 --> 00:00:41.560
<v Speaker 2>I was really struck by the analogy they use, comparing

16
00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:44.320
<v Speaker 2>it to like the early days of steam power.

17
00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:47.000
<v Speaker 1>Ah, before people really understood thermodynamics.

18
00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:48.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. What do you make of that?

19
00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:51.240
<v Speaker 1>I think it's a really interesting point. They're basically saying that,

20
00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:56.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, back then, engineers were building these functional steam engines, right,

21
00:00:56.119 --> 00:00:59.799
<v Speaker 1>but without fully grasping the underlying of physics.

22
00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:04.719
<v Speaker 2>They knew it worked, but not exactly why precisely, And

23
00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:07.359
<v Speaker 2>the pastor seems to be suggesting that a lot of

24
00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:10.280
<v Speaker 2>today's exploit developers.

25
00:01:09.719 --> 00:01:10.920
<v Speaker 1>They're kind of in the same boat.

26
00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:14.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're creating things that work, but maybe without that

27
00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:16.680
<v Speaker 2>deep theoretical understanding.

28
00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:19.799
<v Speaker 1>So are they saying we need like a more scientific

29
00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:21.719
<v Speaker 1>approach to hacking exactly.

30
00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:26.480
<v Speaker 2>They're calling for this balance between building engines, which means

31
00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:29.920
<v Speaker 2>creating practical exploits, right, creating those practical exploits and then

32
00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:31.079
<v Speaker 2>constructing theories.

33
00:01:31.239 --> 00:01:33.560
<v Speaker 1>So building that solid theoretical foundation.

34
00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:36.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, bridging that gap between practice and theory.

35
00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:38.400
<v Speaker 1>That makes a lot of sense. And this issue of

36
00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:42.599
<v Speaker 1>PC or GTFO it really embodies that, really does. There

37
00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:47.120
<v Speaker 1>are articles here on everything from hacking satellites to breaking

38
00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:49.640
<v Speaker 1>copy protection on vintage Apple two games.

39
00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:50.560
<v Speaker 2>What a range?

40
00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:51.640
<v Speaker 1>Talk about range?

41
00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Seriously. One that really caught my eye was about hacking

42
00:01:54.519 --> 00:01:58.799
<v Speaker 2>Global Stars Simplex Data service Global Stars. Yeah, and did

43
00:01:58.840 --> 00:02:01.200
<v Speaker 2>you know that inner accepting data from.

44
00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:02.879
<v Speaker 1>Satellites from satellites.

45
00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:05.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's becoming surprisingly accessible.

46
00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:07.959
<v Speaker 1>Really. I always thought that was like the.

47
00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:11.080
<v Speaker 2>Realm of you know, like superspies.

48
00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:13.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, government agencies and supervillains.

49
00:02:13.319 --> 00:02:16.319
<v Speaker 2>Right, but apparently not anymore. This article it lays out

50
00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:18.000
<v Speaker 2>the tools and techniques.

51
00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:20.719
<v Speaker 1>So you're saying like anyone.

52
00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:23.400
<v Speaker 2>Could do it, well, anyone with the right technical skills

53
00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:24.319
<v Speaker 2>of course, of course.

54
00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:27.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but still it's kind of mind blowing it is.

55
00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:31.159
<v Speaker 2>Of course, there's a difference between intercepting data and actually

56
00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:33.039
<v Speaker 2>like understanding.

57
00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:34.879
<v Speaker 1>It, right, being able to actually use it. Yeah, exactly,

58
00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:37.159
<v Speaker 1>but it's still pretty wild. What else is in there?

59
00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:43.080
<v Speaker 2>There's this fascinating piece on exploiting unused data type identifiers

60
00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:47.919
<v Speaker 2>ttis for short in APRS, the Automatic Packet Reporting.

61
00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:50.360
<v Speaker 1>System used by ham radio operators.

62
00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:54.719
<v Speaker 2>Right, and it's about creatively repurposing these unused identifiers.

63
00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:56.080
<v Speaker 1>To hide data exactly, to hide.

64
00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:57.960
<v Speaker 2>Data within APRS transmissions.

65
00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:00.360
<v Speaker 1>Hold on, you're saying you can sneak in hidden messes

66
00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:01.439
<v Speaker 1>through ham radio.

67
00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:02.960
<v Speaker 2>That's exactly what they're saying.

68
00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:07.159
<v Speaker 1>That's a pretty ingenious it is, right if bit sneaky, Yeah,

69
00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:08.759
<v Speaker 1>bit sneaky. Can you give me an example?

70
00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Sure, Imagine you have this DTI let's say zero by

71
00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:15.039
<v Speaker 2>twenty two, zero by twenty two, and it's not used

72
00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:17.759
<v Speaker 2>for anything, okay, But it's right next to these valid

73
00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:20.840
<v Speaker 2>DPIs like zero by twenty one and zero by twenty three, okay,

74
00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:22.800
<v Speaker 2>which are used for location reporting.

75
00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:25.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you could potentially sneak in some extra data.

76
00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:28.840
<v Speaker 2>Slip it right in there using that unused DTI. Wow clever,

77
00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:32.280
<v Speaker 2>But of course there are ethical considerations. Oh yeah, for sure,

78
00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:34.439
<v Speaker 2>especially if APIs is used for emergencies.

79
00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:36.479
<v Speaker 1>Right, you don't want to mess with that exactly.

80
00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:39.120
<v Speaker 2>The article does warrn about the potential consequences.

81
00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:42.759
<v Speaker 1>Good. Good. Now for something a little more nostalgic. Oh yeah,

82
00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:46.840
<v Speaker 1>there's an article on building a Galaxiga home computer, a

83
00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:50.719
<v Speaker 1>Galaxiga from scratch using techniques from the nineteen eighties.

84
00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:53.120
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's taking it back. It really is.

85
00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:56.080
<v Speaker 1>And I gotta admit this one. It kind of sparked

86
00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:58.639
<v Speaker 1>my inner geek. I bet the Galaxiga it was the

87
00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:00.639
<v Speaker 1>first Yugoslavian home computer.

88
00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:02.120
<v Speaker 2>Really, I had no idea.

89
00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:06.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, introduced back in nineteen eighty four, eighty four. Wow,

90
00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:10.080
<v Speaker 1>this article, it gives you detailed instructions on how to build.

91
00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:12.039
<v Speaker 2>One yourself, like just like they did back then.

92
00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:15.039
<v Speaker 1>Exactly. It's incredible to think about.

93
00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:17.040
<v Speaker 2>The ingenuity and the resourcefulness.

94
00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:18.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, back in those early days.

95
00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:22.199
<v Speaker 2>Can you imagine building a computer from scratch today?

96
00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:24.720
<v Speaker 1>It would be a completely different experience, right, I mean.

97
00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:28.839
<v Speaker 2>This article it talks about making jumper wires from telephone wire.

98
00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:31.000
<v Speaker 1>From telephone wire, yeah.

99
00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:36.439
<v Speaker 2>And meticulously soldering each component. Wow, it really captures that

100
00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:37.560
<v Speaker 2>diy spirit.

101
00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:40.160
<v Speaker 1>There's something really appealing about that. You know, they know

102
00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:43.680
<v Speaker 1>you can make that satisfaction of creating something so complex

103
00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:44.759
<v Speaker 1>from basic parts.

104
00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, from scratch, absolutely.

105
00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:50.439
<v Speaker 1>And speaking of vintage tech, there's this real gem in here.

106
00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:53.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh tell me more.

107
00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:57.560
<v Speaker 1>A comprehensive guide to breaking copy protection way on Apple

108
00:04:57.600 --> 00:04:58.800
<v Speaker 1>two games.

109
00:04:58.480 --> 00:04:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Apple two Classic.

110
00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:02.000
<v Speaker 1>This is the work of Peter Ferry, right.

111
00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:04.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, he's a legend, a.

112
00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:06.720
<v Speaker 1>Legend in the world of classic game cracking.

113
00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:08.879
<v Speaker 2>He's uncovered all these techniques.

114
00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:10.560
<v Speaker 1>For protecting those early games.

115
00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:12.079
<v Speaker 2>And of course the methods to break them.

116
00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:15.879
<v Speaker 1>We're talking about manipulating sectors on floppy discs.

117
00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:20.279
<v Speaker 2>Exploiting vulnerabilities and disk drives, even using self modifying code.

118
00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:21.199
<v Speaker 2>It's incredible.

119
00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:24.480
<v Speaker 1>It's constant back and forth, a real arms race between

120
00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:26.079
<v Speaker 1>the developers and the hackers.

121
00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:27.240
<v Speaker 2>It's fascinating.

122
00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:30.079
<v Speaker 1>You know what's amazing is how these early innovations they

123
00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:31.240
<v Speaker 1>still resonate today.

124
00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:34.680
<v Speaker 2>You're right, It's like those fundamental principles of security, they

125
00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:35.680
<v Speaker 2>haven't really changed.

126
00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:37.399
<v Speaker 1>It's all about understanding the.

127
00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:41.480
<v Speaker 2>System, find the weak points and exploiting them exactly. Whether

128
00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:45.480
<v Speaker 2>it's floppy discs or complex software, the core concepts are.

129
00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:49.120
<v Speaker 1>Often the same, and this issue of PAKC or GTFO.

130
00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:52.480
<v Speaker 1>It's like a treasure trove of insights, it really is.

131
00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:55.199
<v Speaker 1>There's an article here on the security of zo wave

132
00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:58.199
<v Speaker 1>door locks z waves okay, which are becoming really common

133
00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:01.800
<v Speaker 1>in smart homes. Yeah, for sure, dells into the encryption

134
00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:03.560
<v Speaker 1>and authentication.

135
00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:04.839
<v Speaker 2>Highlighting the role of the network key.

136
00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:08.560
<v Speaker 1>So z wave it relies on this single master key.

137
00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:09.639
<v Speaker 2>It's a common approach.

138
00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:10.720
<v Speaker 1>Sounds a bit risky.

139
00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:14.120
<v Speaker 2>It can be the network key. It's securely shared with

140
00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:17.600
<v Speaker 2>new devices, okay, but if that key is compromised, then

141
00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:21.199
<v Speaker 2>what it could give someone control over the whole network,

142
00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:23.639
<v Speaker 2>including the door locks potentially.

143
00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:26.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a little unsettling.

144
00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.319
<v Speaker 2>It is a reminder that even with fancy.

145
00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:32.399
<v Speaker 1>Encryption, there's often that single point of failure.

146
00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:34.720
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, it can undermine the whole system.

147
00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:38.240
<v Speaker 1>Wow, it seems like security is this constant cat and

148
00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:38.879
<v Speaker 1>mouse game.

149
00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:39.959
<v Speaker 2>It really is.

150
00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:43.680
<v Speaker 1>And this deep dive into PAC or GTFO it's a

151
00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:45.560
<v Speaker 1>fascinating glimpse into that battle.

152
00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:48.040
<v Speaker 2>It is. We've covered so much already.

153
00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:51.879
<v Speaker 1>From satellite hacking to building vintage computers and cracking those

154
00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:52.680
<v Speaker 1>classic games.

155
00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:54.399
<v Speaker 2>There's still so much more to explore.

156
00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:56.120
<v Speaker 1>We've only just scratched the surface.

157
00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:58.319
<v Speaker 2>Stay tuned for Part two, will dive into.

158
00:06:58.120 --> 00:07:02.120
<v Speaker 1>Even more more fascinating and technical insights coming right up

159
00:07:02.439 --> 00:07:05.639
<v Speaker 1>after a short break back again and ready for more

160
00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:08.040
<v Speaker 1>from Poke c or GTFO.

161
00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:12.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, going through these articles, Yeah, I'm just blown

162
00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:13.839
<v Speaker 2>away by the ingenuity.

163
00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:16.720
<v Speaker 1>And creativity for sure of the people behind this journal.

164
00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:17.560
<v Speaker 1>It's really something.

165
00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:21.360
<v Speaker 2>They're not just demonstrating exploits. They're like pushing boundaries, shooting

166
00:07:21.399 --> 00:07:25.240
<v Speaker 2>the limits absolutely often in these really creative ways. Oh yeah,

167
00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:25.959
<v Speaker 2>very creative.

168
00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:28.959
<v Speaker 1>Okay, speaking of creative, there's this article that dives into

169
00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:36.920
<v Speaker 1>arm debugging rmdbugging using something called the Serial wire DBUG PROTOCOLSWDD. Yeah,

170
00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:38.439
<v Speaker 1>can you break that down a little.

171
00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:41.839
<v Speaker 2>So SWD it gives you this really low level access

172
00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:46.639
<v Speaker 2>to these ARM micro controllers deep access. Yeah. Basically lets

173
00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:48.839
<v Speaker 2>you peek inside and manipulate.

174
00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:49.240
<v Speaker 1>How the chip works.

175
00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:49.920
<v Speaker 2>You got it.

176
00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:52.839
<v Speaker 1>That's power, very powerful. It's like a secret back door.

177
00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:55.319
<v Speaker 2>That's a great way to put it. The author drives goodspeed.

178
00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:58.519
<v Speaker 2>He does this fantastic job. Yeah, he's great of explaining

179
00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:02.800
<v Speaker 2>this really complex protocol, making it understandable exactly. And he

180
00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:06.639
<v Speaker 2>even built this tool called SP eight two sixty six

181
00:08:06.920 --> 00:08:07.800
<v Speaker 2>arms DD.

182
00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:11.600
<v Speaker 1>SP eight two sixty six arms DBD. Okay, what does

183
00:08:11.639 --> 00:08:12.279
<v Speaker 1>that even do?

184
00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:16.839
<v Speaker 2>It's an Arduino sketch basically turns this cheap esbaight two

185
00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:18.920
<v Speaker 2>sixty six WiFi module.

186
00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Into an SWD debugger exactly. So like with a little

187
00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:25.240
<v Speaker 1>know how, you can wirelessly debug these micro controllers.

188
00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:26.040
<v Speaker 2>That's the idea.

189
00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:30.079
<v Speaker 1>Wow, that's pretty impressive. It is this Travis goodspeed. He's

190
00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:31.519
<v Speaker 1>quite the tinker, isn't he?

191
00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.159
<v Speaker 2>He really is. And he takes it even further talking

192
00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:39.000
<v Speaker 2>about this future where SWD could be used for what

193
00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:41.480
<v Speaker 2>he calls it literate reverse engineering.

194
00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:43.360
<v Speaker 1>Literate reverse engineering.

195
00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:46.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, imagine being able to interact with hardware okay, and

196
00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:51.840
<v Speaker 2>document it in real time, wow, using like web based

197
00:08:51.879 --> 00:08:53.279
<v Speaker 2>tools and all thanks.

198
00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:55.960
<v Speaker 1>To SWD exactly. That's a really cool concept. It kind

199
00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:58.399
<v Speaker 1>of ties back to that, uh breaking the gap, Yeah,

200
00:08:58.399 --> 00:08:59.960
<v Speaker 1>the gap between practice.

201
00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:01.000
<v Speaker 2>And the pastor was talking about.

202
00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:05.440
<v Speaker 1>Yes, exactly. But let's switch gears for a moment. Okay, Sure,

203
00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:07.799
<v Speaker 1>there's this other article I just have to ask you about.

204
00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:11.879
<v Speaker 1>It's titled ox Beef and ox Cafe Hacking a Digital

205
00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:14.200
<v Speaker 1>pregnancy test for fun and nonprofit.

206
00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:16.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, this one's a wild one.

207
00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.639
<v Speaker 1>That title alone, right, So what's the story here.

208
00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:22.799
<v Speaker 2>Well, the author Amanda Wosney.

209
00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:23.559
<v Speaker 1>Act Amanda Wosniak.

210
00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:27.759
<v Speaker 2>Okay, she was actually contracted to reverse engineer a pregnancy test.

211
00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:28.679
<v Speaker 1>A pregnancy test.

212
00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:31.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but she never got paid for her work.

213
00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:32.799
<v Speaker 1>Wow, that's rough.

214
00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:36.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So she decided to publish her findings in this

215
00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:37.039
<v Speaker 2>journal exactly.

216
00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:39.200
<v Speaker 1>This makes her a pretty unique article, right.

217
00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Definitely unique. So what she did was she delves into

218
00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:46.919
<v Speaker 2>the hardware and firmware of like a typical digital pregnancy test, Okay,

219
00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:51.080
<v Speaker 2>and she explains how it actually detects those those blue.

220
00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:52.360
<v Speaker 1>Lines, the blue lines. Yeah.

221
00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:55.799
<v Speaker 2>It turns out there's an optical fencer really yeah, and

222
00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:57.159
<v Speaker 2>a micro controller.

223
00:09:56.799 --> 00:10:00.000
<v Speaker 1>So it's more complex than just a simple chemical react

224
00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:01.279
<v Speaker 1>much more.

225
00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:03.240
<v Speaker 2>There's actual computing going on in there.

226
00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:06.159
<v Speaker 1>Wow. That's uh, that's surprising.

227
00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:09.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And she even outlines how you could potentially like

228
00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:13.600
<v Speaker 2>mess with it, well, manipulate the LCD display to show

229
00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:15.000
<v Speaker 2>custom messages.

230
00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:17.600
<v Speaker 1>So you can make it say whatever you want theoretically. Yeah,

231
00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:18.840
<v Speaker 1>that's thinking outside the box.

232
00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:21.720
<v Speaker 2>Right. Okay, let's get back to something we touched on earlier.

233
00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:22.559
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what's that.

234
00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:25.879
<v Speaker 2>Breaking copy protection on those vintage Apple two games?

235
00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:29.039
<v Speaker 1>Ah? Yes, that's a classic.

236
00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:32.159
<v Speaker 2>There's a whole section dedicated to this. Actually, it's a

237
00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:34.039
<v Speaker 2>gold mine of information.

238
00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:35.039
<v Speaker 1>For retro game hacking.

239
00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:40.480
<v Speaker 2>Peter Ferry. He really goes deep, covering everything from sector manipulation,

240
00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:43.440
<v Speaker 2>which is it's about how the data is arranged on

241
00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:48.320
<v Speaker 2>the floppy disc, to self modifying code, which is where

242
00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:51.759
<v Speaker 2>the program actually changes its own instructions as it's running.

243
00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Why.

244
00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:52.879
<v Speaker 2>It's wild.

245
00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:56.080
<v Speaker 1>It's mind boggling the effort that went into all.

246
00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:00.639
<v Speaker 2>This, both protecting and circumventing those protections in the day,

247
00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:02.399
<v Speaker 2>and it was this constant arms.

248
00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:05.639
<v Speaker 1>Race between developers and hackers. And you can see the

249
00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:08.000
<v Speaker 1>evolution of those techniques over time.

250
00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:09.399
<v Speaker 2>It's really fascinating.

251
00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:12.799
<v Speaker 1>It's amazing how these early innovations they still matter today.

252
00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:16.279
<v Speaker 2>They do right, It's like the fundamentals of security, they

253
00:11:16.279 --> 00:11:17.759
<v Speaker 2>haven't really changed that much.

254
00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:21.120
<v Speaker 1>It's still about understanding the system, finding the weak point,

255
00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:25.120
<v Speaker 1>and exploiting them exactly. Okay, speaking of exploiting systems, there's

256
00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:28.360
<v Speaker 1>an article that really peaked my curiosity with that. It's

257
00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:33.360
<v Speaker 1>called DMR Digital Mobile Radio DMR, and it goes into

258
00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:35.919
<v Speaker 1>this world of two way radio hacking.

259
00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:40.159
<v Speaker 2>Interesting. So DMR stands for digital mobile radio and it's

260
00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:44.000
<v Speaker 2>used by a lot of different groups, amateur radio enthusiasts okay,

261
00:11:44.080 --> 00:11:45.519
<v Speaker 2>even emergency services.

262
00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:47.679
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, so important stuff.

263
00:11:47.720 --> 00:11:52.039
<v Speaker 2>This article focuses on a specific radio, the Tiara MD three.

264
00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:54.759
<v Speaker 1>Eighty that t Tara MD three eighty okay, and the author,

265
00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:57.519
<v Speaker 1>Travis Goodspeed oh am again shows you how to.

266
00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Reverse engineer the radio's bootloader. Bootloader, Yeah, that's the initial

267
00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:03.279
<v Speaker 2>program that runs when the device starts up.

268
00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:03.679
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

269
00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:07.759
<v Speaker 2>He explains how to bypass security predictions. Yeah, even modify

270
00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:09.000
<v Speaker 2>the firmware to add new.

271
00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:11.879
<v Speaker 1>Features, so you could basically like take control of the

272
00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:15.679
<v Speaker 1>radios software essentially. Yeah, that seems like you could have

273
00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:17.720
<v Speaker 1>some uh, pretty serious implications.

274
00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:21.279
<v Speaker 2>It definitely could. The article talks about things like eavesdroppings, dropping,

275
00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:25.159
<v Speaker 2>and private conversations, potentially even disrupting communications.

276
00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:27.080
<v Speaker 1>That's a bit unsettling, it is.

277
00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:30.559
<v Speaker 2>It highlights the importance of understanding these vulnerabilities, even.

278
00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:32.759
<v Speaker 1>In devices we might not think of as being hackable,

279
00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:34.279
<v Speaker 1>exactly like a two way radio.

280
00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:35.519
<v Speaker 2>You wouldn't think of it, right.

281
00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:39.080
<v Speaker 1>It raises questions about the balance between security and accessibility.

282
00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:41.919
<v Speaker 1>For sure, as tech gets more complex, how do we

283
00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:46.159
<v Speaker 1>keep things secure? Yeah, but also usable? It's a tough question,

284
00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:49.320
<v Speaker 1>a question we'll be dealing with for a while. I think, well,

285
00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:51.440
<v Speaker 1>we've covered a lot in this part of our deep dive.

286
00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:54.559
<v Speaker 2>We have from pregnancy tests to two way radios.

287
00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:58.679
<v Speaker 1>This issue of POSSE or GTFO has it all.

288
00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:00.639
<v Speaker 2>There's one more article we should discuss.

289
00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what's next? All right, we're back for the final

290
00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:08.200
<v Speaker 1>part of our deep dive into POSSE or GTFO. And

291
00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:10.080
<v Speaker 1>there's this one last article.

292
00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:10.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I'm.

293
00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:14.120
<v Speaker 1>Really curious about. It involves something called a polyglot.

294
00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Polyglot sounds kind of like a Harry Potter.

295
00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:20.639
<v Speaker 1>Spell or something I know, right, But in this context,

296
00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:23.240
<v Speaker 1>a polyglot is it's a file.

297
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:25.720
<v Speaker 2>That can be interpreted in multiple formats.

298
00:13:25.399 --> 00:13:27.559
<v Speaker 1>Like it can be read as different things exactly.

299
00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:30.279
<v Speaker 2>This article it describes how to create.

300
00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:32.240
<v Speaker 1>A PDF, okay, PDF.

301
00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:34.120
<v Speaker 2>That can also be read as a ZIP archive.

302
00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Wait, so it's both a PDF and a ZPR.

303
00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:38.360
<v Speaker 2>And a PostScript program.

304
00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:39.799
<v Speaker 1>All at the same time. How is that even possible?

305
00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:43.159
<v Speaker 2>It's all about how you structure the file format, you know, Okay,

306
00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:47.000
<v Speaker 2>By embedding different types of data in specific sections.

307
00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:48.480
<v Speaker 1>You can kind of trick different programs.

308
00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:50.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you make it so it can be understood in

309
00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:51.039
<v Speaker 2>different ways.

310
00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:54.320
<v Speaker 1>That's that's incredible, like a digital chameleon, is.

311
00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:56.519
<v Speaker 2>Right, it changes depending on who's looking at it.

312
00:13:56.840 --> 00:14:01.039
<v Speaker 1>And the author's Evan sultanic In Philip Tuwen.

313
00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:03.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. They walk you through the whole process, step by step,

314
00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:06.080
<v Speaker 2>explaining the challenges and workarounds. It's really cool.

315
00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:08.879
<v Speaker 1>It must take some serious knowledge of file formats to

316
00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:09.480
<v Speaker 1>pull that off.

317
00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:10.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, for sure.

318
00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:14.679
<v Speaker 1>It's amazing. These hackers. They're not just exploiting systems, they're

319
00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:17.799
<v Speaker 1>like bending the structure of information itself.

320
00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:19.600
<v Speaker 2>It's pretty mind blowing when you think about it.

321
00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:22.600
<v Speaker 1>Speaking of bending things to your will, there's this article

322
00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:23.960
<v Speaker 1>on reverse engineering.

323
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:24.919
<v Speaker 2>Reverse engineering.

324
00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:27.559
<v Speaker 1>Okay, the classic game Star Raiders.

325
00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:30.720
<v Speaker 2>The Star Raiders Classic. I spent hours on that game.

326
00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.759
<v Speaker 1>I know, right, So the author Lorenz.

327
00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:36.080
<v Speaker 2>Wisest Lorenz wisest He.

328
00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:40.039
<v Speaker 1>Actually reverse engineered the entire game, the whole thing. Yeah,

329
00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:44.440
<v Speaker 1>created this fully documented assembly language source code.

330
00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:46.600
<v Speaker 2>Wow. So he figured out how the whole game.

331
00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:47.720
<v Speaker 1>Works down to the code.

332
00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:48.720
<v Speaker 2>That's amazing.

333
00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:52.279
<v Speaker 1>He explains the process, like how he deciphered the game's logic,

334
00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:55.840
<v Speaker 1>the graphic, even the math behind the spaceship rotation.

335
00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:58.000
<v Speaker 2>It's incredible the detail he goes into.

336
00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:02.639
<v Speaker 1>He even mentioned something called the core algorithm, quordic algorithm,

337
00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:06.960
<v Speaker 1>coordinate rotation digital computer. Okay, I'm following, and it's this,

338
00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:10.720
<v Speaker 1>it's this mathematical trick, a trick, yeah, used to calculate

339
00:15:10.759 --> 00:15:12.159
<v Speaker 1>trigonometric functions.

340
00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:12.559
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

341
00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:15.440
<v Speaker 1>The developers of Star Raiders, they used it to make

342
00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:17.960
<v Speaker 1>the spaceship rotate smoothly even with.

343
00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:19.519
<v Speaker 2>The limited processing power back then.

344
00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:21.159
<v Speaker 1>Pretty clever, right, very clever.

345
00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:24.840
<v Speaker 2>This article really gives you a look inside.

346
00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:26.320
<v Speaker 1>The inner workings of a classic.

347
00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:28.919
<v Speaker 2>Game and the minds of the people who made it.

348
00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:29.759
<v Speaker 1>It's inspiring.

349
00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:30.519
<v Speaker 2>Definitely.

350
00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:34.799
<v Speaker 1>Well, this deep dive into posse or GTFO has been

351
00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:36.240
<v Speaker 1>quite a journey, it has.

352
00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:38.200
<v Speaker 2>We've seen some incredible stuff.

353
00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:40.559
<v Speaker 1>Hacking techniques from across decades.

354
00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:41.399
<v Speaker 2>Covering all sorts of tech.

355
00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:42.120
<v Speaker 1>It's amazing.

356
00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:44.039
<v Speaker 2>I think it's safe to say that post c or

357
00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:46.200
<v Speaker 2>GTFO liz up to its name.

358
00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:48.559
<v Speaker 1>It does. It's proof that there's always more to learn,

359
00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:51.919
<v Speaker 1>more to explore, more to understand about the systems around us.

360
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.440
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and you know, it makes you think about the

361
00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:56.000
<v Speaker 2>Pastor's analogy.

362
00:15:55.600 --> 00:16:00.480
<v Speaker 1>About building engines versus constructing theories. Yeah, like a lot

363
00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:02.480
<v Speaker 1>of these articles, they're trying to do both.

364
00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:06.000
<v Speaker 2>They're showing us the practical side of hacking, but also

365
00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:10.919
<v Speaker 2>encouraging us to think deeper about the underlying principles.

366
00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:12.639
<v Speaker 1>So why behind the how?

367
00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's not just about hacking for the sake of it.

368
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:18.759
<v Speaker 1>It's about understanding the system, the consequences, the ethical side

369
00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:19.559
<v Speaker 1>of things.

370
00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:21.919
<v Speaker 2>Responsible exploration, sharing knowledge.

371
00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:25.120
<v Speaker 1>That's what makes this journal so fascinating. Absolutely, well, I

372
00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:27.039
<v Speaker 1>think it's time to wrap up this deep dive.

373
00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:28.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think so too.

374
00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:32.360
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining us on this exploration of POC or GTFO.

375
00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:34.399
<v Speaker 2>I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did.

376
00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:37.960
<v Speaker 1>As always, keep your minds open, stay curious, and may

377
00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:40.840
<v Speaker 1>your code always be proof of concept material.

378
00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:41.720
<v Speaker 2>Amen to that.