1 00:00:04,879 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,640 this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon 3 00:00:09,679 --> 00:00:12,519 to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,719 want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,239 my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,640 go to vpeteclendershow dot com. Make sure you hit the 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,160 subscribe button. Get every episode for free right to your 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,719 smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:33,439 your support. So have you heard of the case Trump 10 00:00:33,679 --> 00:00:40,359 versus Slaughter? It is not just about whether a president 11 00:00:40,759 --> 00:00:47,920 can fire a bureaucrat, It's about who actually runs the country. Okay, 12 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,320 that's the summation over at the Independent Journal Review IJR 13 00:00:53,399 --> 00:00:59,479 dot com. Rebecca Slaughter was a Biden era Federal Trade 14 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,520 commission her. She was shown the door by President Trump 15 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,920 in March, and she did not take it well. Rather 16 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,439 than accepting that her policies and priorities might not align 17 00:01:12,519 --> 00:01:15,879 with the administration that's elected by the people, no, no, no, 18 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:22,439 she sued, this is classic Democrat playbook, you know, sue 19 00:01:22,519 --> 00:01:27,000 till blue approach. Right that which we cannot get done 20 00:01:27,079 --> 00:01:34,159 legislatively or electorally, we will get done through the courts. Right, 21 00:01:34,239 --> 00:01:37,239 we will make law through the courts, because that's the 22 00:01:37,239 --> 00:01:39,680 only place we have any real power. At the moment, 23 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,920 she sued the President for firing her. Her team is 24 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,079 claiming that she could not be let go unless there 25 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:54,079 was cause. Apparently, simply disagreeing with the president's entire agenda 26 00:01:54,560 --> 00:02:00,680 does not count as cause. So, and by the way, 27 00:02:00,719 --> 00:02:05,439 we know what happens when you have an entire bureaucracy, 28 00:02:06,319 --> 00:02:09,240 or as the Soviets called it, the new state, or 29 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,080 as a lot of folks in Maga call it, the 30 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,400 deep state. We have seen what happens when you have 31 00:02:16,719 --> 00:02:22,719 people inside of the executive branch that oppose Orange Man. 32 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,960 They work from the inside to throw sand in the gears. 33 00:02:28,719 --> 00:02:32,879 They thwart him and his agenda, which is not what 34 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,800 they're supposed to be doing. The idea is that the 35 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,879 American people elect a president. That president under Article II 36 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:46,599 the Constitution. That president then carries out the laws that 37 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,120 the Article one branch the Congress that they pass. Right, 38 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:59,439 and so you a hireling of the executive branch, your 39 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,800 opinions do not really matter. If you disagree with the 40 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:08,520 agenda that the boss is telling you to enact, that 41 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,639 doesn't matter. You can express your opinion. You can say 42 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,719 I disagree, this isn't the best idea. We shouldn't do this, 43 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,479 Here's a better way. Whatever you do, that all you want, 44 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:25,680 but you do have to implement the agenda. That's the job. 45 00:03:26,439 --> 00:03:29,560 But what the bureaucrats do is they slow everything down, 46 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,800 They lose paperwork. They talked about this. I'm not making 47 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,360 this up. This is from their own mouths anonymously. Of course, 48 00:03:37,639 --> 00:03:41,240 during the first term of Donald Trump, they talked about 49 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,199 this in a very lengthy piece I think it was 50 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,840 at the New York Times, talked about how they were working, 51 00:03:46,919 --> 00:03:50,719 you know, behind enemy lines in order to thwart Trump's 52 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:56,639 radical agenda. So she sues the president for firing her. 53 00:03:57,879 --> 00:04:03,319 Slaughter's legal team is leaning hard on precedent, specifically a 54 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:08,400 dusty old nineteen thirty five case that says presidents can't 55 00:04:08,479 --> 00:04:14,360 just remove officials from quote unquote independent agencies. They say 56 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:19,160 the FTC is one such agency, and if you want 57 00:04:19,199 --> 00:04:21,160 to remove somebody, you got to go through all of 58 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:25,680 these legal hoops. But as Trump's Solicitor General John Sower 59 00:04:25,759 --> 00:04:29,279 pointed out in the oral arguments, that precedent is a 60 00:04:29,399 --> 00:04:34,800 quote decaying husk a relic of a bygone era when 61 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:39,759 Washington was not overrun by career bureaucrats convinced they know 62 00:04:39,879 --> 00:04:43,439 better than the people who actually cast the ballots. Right, 63 00:04:43,519 --> 00:04:47,600 and think about how big the US federal government has 64 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,240 become since nineteen thirty five, ninety years ago, eighty five 65 00:04:51,319 --> 00:04:58,040 years ago. Right, This is why DOGE was so important. 66 00:04:58,639 --> 00:05:01,360 It's something that GOVC does never do that the private 67 00:05:01,399 --> 00:05:08,399 sector does regularly. Elon must proved this model, this approach 68 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,399 right when he bought Twitter, but also in other enterprises 69 00:05:12,639 --> 00:05:16,360 where you fire a bunch of people and look as 70 00:05:16,399 --> 00:05:19,800 one who has been fired in this very same kind 71 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,879 of cost cutting efforts and streamlining and optimization and all 72 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:33,000 of that budgetary constraints. I know firsthand it stinks. It stinks. However, 73 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:39,240 from an organizational standpoint, right number one, the job isn't yours. 74 00:05:39,319 --> 00:05:41,480 This job that I'm doing right now, this is not mine. 75 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:47,120 This is the company's job. Every job has a shelf life. 76 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,600 And there are people who do not understand this that 77 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,720 work in government because government jobs never seem to go away. 78 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,120 And what happens is like you just think about it 79 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,480 from an operational standpoint, you know you're doing doing things, 80 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,480 and technology improvements come along, you get better at your 81 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,319 job and you're able to do the work in a 82 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,199 more efficient manner. So then what happens when you've gotten 83 00:06:11,199 --> 00:06:14,279 all caught up on your workload, your paperwork is all 84 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,040 caught up. Then what do you do? You start looking 85 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:18,920 for other things that you could do. Oh, you know what, 86 00:06:18,959 --> 00:06:20,680 while I was working on this project, I saw some 87 00:06:20,759 --> 00:06:22,480 other thing that we could also do, And so you 88 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:27,079 start branching out. You start, you know, mission creeping, and 89 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,680 that's why. And then you end up adding more people 90 00:06:29,759 --> 00:06:32,120 because hey, I started doing this thing, we need more 91 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,439 bodies to keep doing it better. So then you bring 92 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,680 in more people and you end up with this bloated bureaucracy. 93 00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:45,040 Same thing in education. All the administrator positions, right, so 94 00:06:45,079 --> 00:06:47,240 it keeps growing, and it keeps growing. And in the 95 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,279 private sector, due to budget constraints, they will come through 96 00:06:51,319 --> 00:06:53,279 and fire a bunch of people. They'll sort of clear 97 00:06:53,319 --> 00:06:58,240 out the underbrush in order to keep the forest healthy. 98 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:03,199 That doesn't happen. Government never happened, especially at the federal level. 99 00:07:04,399 --> 00:07:06,680 That's why DOGE was so important. That's why I was 100 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:11,720 so excited about what Musk was trying to do. Which 101 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,079 has now it seems, has like crashed and burned. The 102 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,560 only remnant of success there is the exposure of the 103 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:24,199 nngos and USAID funding, the funding, you know, being funneled 104 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:29,040 through all these leftist organizations giving them the the lifeblood 105 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:36,240 that they needed. The Solicitor General John sower Uh points out, 106 00:07:36,279 --> 00:07:41,360 this is a relic, This idea is a relic. You 107 00:07:41,439 --> 00:07:47,600 have a much bigger bureaucracy now, he's and I Jr. 108 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,639 Says let's talk about what went down during oral arguments now, 109 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,759 because it got a little wild. Justice Katanji Brown Jackson 110 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,519 or KBG, in what can only be described as a 111 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:03,879 full throated defense of government by credential, argued that presidents 112 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,000 should not have the power to fire the so called 113 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:12,439 experts running the bureaucracy. I've got the audio clip. 114 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: Some issues, some matter, some areas should be handled in 115 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:26,120 this way by nonpartisan experts. That Congress is saying that 116 00:08:26,319 --> 00:08:30,519 expertise matters with respect to aspects of the economy and 117 00:08:30,639 --> 00:08:34,759 transportation and the various independent agencies that we have. So 118 00:08:35,399 --> 00:08:39,879 having a president come in and fire all the scientists 119 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:43,000 and the doctors and the economists and the PhDs and 120 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:47,720 replacing them with loyalists and people who don't know anything, 121 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,720 is actually not in the best interest of the citizens 122 00:08:50,759 --> 00:08:53,399 of the United States. These issues should not be in 123 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,240 presidential control. So can you speak to me about the 124 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,679 danger of allowing in the these various areas the president 125 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:07,120 to actually control the Transportation Board and potentially the Federal 126 00:09:07,159 --> 00:09:11,360 Reserve and all these other independent agencies in these particular areas, 127 00:09:11,399 --> 00:09:14,120 we would like to have independence. We don't want the 128 00:09:14,159 --> 00:09:17,159 president controlling I guess what I don't understand from your 129 00:09:17,279 --> 00:09:22,039 overarching argument is why that determination of Congress, which makes 130 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,879 perfect sense given its duty to protect the people of 131 00:09:25,919 --> 00:09:31,559 the United States, why that is subjugated to a concern 132 00:09:31,639 --> 00:09:35,240 about the president not being able to control everything. I mean, 133 00:09:35,279 --> 00:09:38,159 I appreciate there's a conflict between the two, but one 134 00:09:38,159 --> 00:09:41,960 would think under our constitutional design, given the history of 135 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,679 the monarchy and the concerns that the Framers had about 136 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,039 a president controlling everything, that in the clash between those 137 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,200 two congresses view that we should be able to have 138 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,120 independence with respect to certain issues should take precedence. 139 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: So what is she arguing for there the deep state, 140 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,519 some fourth branch of government that Congress sets up, some 141 00:10:07,759 --> 00:10:12,840 quote unquote independent agency and that they then get to 142 00:10:12,879 --> 00:10:17,360 do whatever they want. That's not what the framers had 143 00:10:17,399 --> 00:10:20,120 in mind at all. In fact, if Congress wants to 144 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:25,519 set up some you know, advisory board made up of experts, 145 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,200 they can do so, and that could inform them and 146 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,399 they can pass legislation based on the advice and council 147 00:10:33,519 --> 00:10:38,879 of the experts. But if you're going to create agencies 148 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:44,200 that fall under the executive branch, then the executive should 149 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,360 have the ability to run those agencies, because that's what 150 00:10:47,399 --> 00:10:53,039 you're hiring the executive to do. No otherwise, how do 151 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,720 you ever get rid of somebody? It doesn't make sense. 152 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,159 She essentially wants to hand the keys to unelected lifers 153 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,600 who answer to nobody. You know, stories are powerful. They 154 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,240 help us make sense of things, to understand experiences. Stories 155 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,519 connect us to the people of our past while transcending generations. 156 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,000 They help us process the meaning of life, and our 157 00:11:17,159 --> 00:11:21,279 stories are told through images and videos. Preserve your stories 158 00:11:21,279 --> 00:11:24,519 with Creative Video started in nineteen ninety seven and Minhill, 159 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,240 North Carolina. It was the first company to provide this 160 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,600 valuable service, converting images, photos and videos into high quality 161 00:11:31,639 --> 00:11:35,639 produced slide shows, videos, and albums. The trusted talented and 162 00:11:35,759 --> 00:11:38,399 dedicated team at Creative Video will go over all of 163 00:11:38,399 --> 00:11:42,360 the details with you to create a perfect project. 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Was 174 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:24,600 reacting to the uh the comments there from KBJ Katanji 175 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,799 Brown Jackson Supreme Court justice so embarrassing. Is she a 176 00:12:28,919 --> 00:12:32,960 judge or a lawyer here? Well, she's a lawyer with 177 00:12:33,039 --> 00:12:36,879 a wardrobe change. See that's why I call them that. 178 00:12:40,159 --> 00:12:43,519 Eric says Elon with Doge was getting too close to 179 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,759 the politician's corruption, so he had to go. Unfortunately Trump 180 00:12:46,799 --> 00:12:54,080 didn't back him. In the swamp one out Ian says 181 00:12:54,159 --> 00:13:00,360 KBJ sounds a lot like AOC whose voice moves even 182 00:13:00,399 --> 00:13:04,799 the most serene souls to render their own flesh. Ooh 183 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:12,799 bad sounds bad. Um okay, So let me go back 184 00:13:12,799 --> 00:13:15,759 to this piece at IJR dot com Independent Journal Review 185 00:13:15,919 --> 00:13:21,679 or Journalism Review. I should say what Justice Jackson is 186 00:13:21,759 --> 00:13:27,200 suggesting in her argument is not some obscure legal argument. 187 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,440 It's a direct challenge to Article two of the US Constitution, 188 00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:33,679 the part that says the executive power belongs to the president. 189 00:13:35,159 --> 00:13:39,039 So that's a slight little detail there. Under her vision, 190 00:13:39,919 --> 00:13:43,440 that power gets sliced up, watered down, and then hand 191 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,679 it over to a bureaucratic priesthood with Ivy League degrees 192 00:13:47,039 --> 00:13:51,200 and zero accountability. And this is not just about the FTC. 193 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,480 If the Court sides with Trump, as it seems like 194 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,600 the six Conservatives on the Court seem inclined to do, 195 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,840 it could finally start pulling some of the tangled wires 196 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,240 of the administrative state out of the Constitution's throat. This 197 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,480 case could reassert what has been obvious to every Civics 198 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:18,120 student until recently, which is that presidents run the executive branch, 199 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:24,639 not boards, not commissions, not consultants, not panels. Presidents do. 200 00:14:26,279 --> 00:14:30,360 David Harsani from The Washington Examiner points out that there 201 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,960 is no such thing as an independent agency. Not in 202 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,360 our constitutional framework. There is no fourth branch of the government. 203 00:14:39,559 --> 00:14:41,799 He says, it's hard to believe this is even controversial. 204 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,559 Costas Moros, he is the director of Legal research and 205 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:54,360 Education at the Second Amendment Foundation. He says, Congress can 206 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:59,240 decide if an agency gets funded, and Congress can decide 207 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,240 what it's submission and authority is. They can do that, 208 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:10,240 but it cannot delegate away the president's power. Right. Congress 209 00:15:10,279 --> 00:15:12,919 can't take that power from the president because it's enshrined 210 00:15:12,919 --> 00:15:16,080 in the Constitution. If you want to change that, you 211 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,840 got to run an amendment to the US Constitution. You 212 00:15:19,879 --> 00:15:23,840 want to create independent agencies that are not administered by 213 00:15:23,879 --> 00:15:28,519 the executive branch, run an amendment. It cannot delegate away 214 00:15:28,559 --> 00:15:32,000 the president's powers as the Constitution is clear that the 215 00:15:32,039 --> 00:15:35,120 full power of the executive branch is vested in the 216 00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:39,480 president alone. He gets to run the agencies and that 217 00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:44,360 includes hiring people and yes, firing them, and if Congress 218 00:15:44,399 --> 00:15:48,679 doesn't like it, they can stop funding the agencies. He says. 219 00:15:48,919 --> 00:15:51,879 You can't have it both ways. You want a big, 220 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,440 expansive federal government unlike what was ever intended. Well, the 221 00:15:56,519 --> 00:15:59,399 price is that sometimes somebody you don't like is going 222 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,679 to get elected president and they're gonna take it out 223 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:08,799 for a joy ride. That's the deal, Democrats, that's the deal. 224 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:10,919 You should have listened to people like me who were 225 00:16:10,919 --> 00:16:13,320 saying government is too big and you're not gonna like 226 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,080 it when somebody you don't like is in charge of it. 227 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,519 Here's a great idea. How about making an escape to 228 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,080 a really special and secluded getaway in western North Carolina. 229 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,360 Just a quick drive up the mountain and Cabins of 230 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,759 Asheville is your connection. 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Call or 246 00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:24,400 text eight two eight three six seven seventy sixty eight 247 00:17:24,759 --> 00:17:26,839 or check out all there is to offer at Cabins 248 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,400 Offashville dot com and make memories that'll last a lifetime. 249 00:17:31,319 --> 00:17:36,480 Amy Howe, writing at SCOTUSblog dot com Scotus obviously standing 250 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:41,279 for Supreme Court of the United States, talking about this 251 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:45,039 case Trump versus Slaughter, the Supreme Court signaled that it 252 00:17:45,279 --> 00:17:48,279 was likely to strike down a federal law that restricts 253 00:17:48,279 --> 00:17:52,359 the president's ability to fire members of the Federal Trade Commission. 254 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,599 During two and a half hours of argument in the case, 255 00:17:56,039 --> 00:17:58,799 a solid majority of the justices appeared to agree with 256 00:17:58,839 --> 00:18:03,000 the Trump administration. A law prohibiting the president from firing 257 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:08,359 FTC commissioners except in cases of quote, inefficiency, neglect of duty, 258 00:18:08,799 --> 00:18:14,279 or malfeasance in office. That this violates the constitutional separation 259 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,480 of powers between the three branches of government. Okay, So 260 00:18:19,279 --> 00:18:22,599 the law that was passed to set up the FTC 261 00:18:23,079 --> 00:18:26,680 said that the president can fire somebody, but only for inefficiency, 262 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:32,119 neglective duty, or malfeasance. But what if the person is 263 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:38,720 working to thwart the boss's agenda? No, can't fire them 264 00:18:38,759 --> 00:18:41,640 for that. I guess a decision in favor of the 265 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:46,079 Trump administration would significantly increase the president's power over not 266 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,640 only the FTC but roughly two dozen other multi member 267 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:55,559 agencies that Congress intended to be independent. President Trump has 268 00:18:55,599 --> 00:19:00,119 also fired members of the National Labor Relations Board, the 269 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,680 Merit Systems Protection Board, which I've never even heard of, 270 00:19:04,599 --> 00:19:09,839 the Consumer Product Safety Commission. The Supreme Court has already 271 00:19:09,839 --> 00:19:12,559 allowed those firings to take effect in proceedings on its 272 00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:14,880 interim docket, but the Court's ruling in the case of 273 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,160 the FTC Commission or Rebecca Slaughter will provide a more 274 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:24,559 definitive ruling on the legality of those firings. Now some 275 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:30,279 background on who Slaughter is. Trump actually nominated her to 276 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,000 fill one of the seats on the FTC, which was 277 00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:37,400 slated to be a Democrat seat. Then President Joe Biden 278 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,279 in twenty twenty three tapped her to serve a second term, 279 00:19:41,599 --> 00:19:44,960 which is slated to end in twenty twenty nine. But 280 00:19:45,079 --> 00:19:49,319 in March, after winning reelection, Trump sent Slaughter an email 281 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,960 firing her. He did not cite any reason for her removal, 282 00:19:53,319 --> 00:19:55,839 other than that allowing her to remain on the FTC 283 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:02,279 would be inconsistent with the administration's priorities. So there is 284 00:20:02,319 --> 00:20:05,240 a nineteen thirty five ruling in the US Supreme Court. 285 00:20:05,279 --> 00:20:10,400 It's called Humphrey's Executor versus us, or they referred to 286 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:15,559 it as Humphrey's Executor. In that case, the Supreme Court 287 00:20:15,759 --> 00:20:20,839 upheld the FTC's removal statute against a challenge that was 288 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:25,400 brought by the Roosevelt administration. Only the Supreme Court could 289 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,359 overturn that case. That's what the Supreme Court said at 290 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:33,240 the time. They said, only we can overturn this ruling. 291 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,400 And so here we are. It took eighty five years, 292 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:42,359 but here we are, or ninety years. Representing the Trump administration, 293 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,640 the US Solicitor John D. Or Sorry D John Sower 294 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:53,440 told the court that Humphrey's executor was an indefensible outlier 295 00:20:53,839 --> 00:20:57,440 and a decaying husk that must be overruled. The Supreme 296 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,599 Court's cases in recent years, he said, have repute the 297 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:06,799 very foundation of that original ruling. The lawyer representing Rebecca Slaughter, 298 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:13,640 A Meet Argowall, stated that the president's constitutional duty to 299 00:21:13,759 --> 00:21:16,960 execute the law does not give the president the power 300 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,359 to violate that law with impunity. If the Trump administration 301 00:21:21,519 --> 00:21:24,359 is correct that the removal statute at the center of 302 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,920 this case violates the separation of powers, then, Argurwall argued, 303 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,440 all three branches of government have been wrong from the 304 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,200 start of our country's history. A lot of the argument 305 00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:45,319 focused on potential broader effects. The justices questioned whether a 306 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:51,799 decision in Slaughter's favor would give Congress sweeping power, including 307 00:21:51,799 --> 00:21:56,000 the authority to convert existing cabinet departments into multi member 308 00:21:56,079 --> 00:22:00,640 agencies that would be insulated from presidential control. Can you 309 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:05,799 imagine the chaos that would create Congress basically turned say 310 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,880 the Department of Defense into an independent agency, and then 311 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:14,359 they pack it with a bunch of their people. Then 312 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,400 what could you end up with like twenty fifth Amendment 313 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,319 stuff going on? Here where they work against the sitting president. 314 00:22:24,759 --> 00:22:27,839 Argwall agreed with Chief Justice John Roberts when he was 315 00:22:27,839 --> 00:22:31,279 asked whether Congress could just take over some cabinet departments. 316 00:22:31,559 --> 00:22:34,480 He said, such a result is probably within the realm 317 00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:43,720 of possibility. That seems like a problem, right. Justice Kavanaugh 318 00:22:44,039 --> 00:22:46,440 was worried about such a scenario, telling Argowall that it 319 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,039 would allow Congress to create independent agencies without any requirement 320 00:22:50,079 --> 00:22:55,720 of partisan balance and with lengthy terms for the agency heads. Right. 321 00:22:55,839 --> 00:23:02,160 Why not create a Department of Green Energy and pack 322 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,920 it with only Democrats and give them thirty year terms? Right? 323 00:23:08,279 --> 00:23:10,839 This would give Congress the ability to create agencies that 324 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:16,240 would thwart future presidents. On the other side, some justices 325 00:23:16,279 --> 00:23:18,480 expressed concern that a ruling in favor of the Trump 326 00:23:18,519 --> 00:23:24,920 administration would affect other multi member agencies like the NLRB 327 00:23:25,039 --> 00:23:30,039 as I mentioned, but also the US Tax Court and 328 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:35,960 the United States Court of Claims, also the Federal Reserve, 329 00:23:38,079 --> 00:23:40,680 and Argo Wall said, if Trump wins, everything's on the 330 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:45,960 shopping block. Justice Sonya Sutomigor echoed this sentiment, telling saur 331 00:23:46,079 --> 00:23:51,319 that he was putting those institutions at risk. Justice sam Alito, 332 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,559 though was more sympathetic. He argued that sour Or. He 333 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,920 asked sour whether the Court could issue a narrow ruling 334 00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:02,480 that did not address the concertstitutionality of removal provisions for 335 00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:05,160 things like the tax court, and Sower said that it could. 336 00:24:05,279 --> 00:24:09,000 The Supreme Court has discovered the Supreme Court has discouraged 337 00:24:09,279 --> 00:24:12,559 general pronouncements on issues that were not before the justices right, 338 00:24:12,599 --> 00:24:14,799 so they could they could own like they could look 339 00:24:14,839 --> 00:24:21,599 at just only this FTC issue. Kavanaugh suggested the Court 340 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,400 could craft a decision that would not call into question 341 00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:30,839 the removal laws, the clauses for the Federal Reserve Bank. 342 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:38,519 That's possible. Atlanta Kagan portrayed Congress's creation of independent agencies 343 00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:41,599 like the FTC as the result of a bargain over 344 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:46,039 the last century. Congress, she said, gave the independent agency 345 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,920 substantial authority beyond executive power, and it bestowed that power 346 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,319 precisely because the president does not control the agencies. But 347 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,119 if part of that bargain is eliminated by giving the 348 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,400 president control over those agencies, it would give the president massive, uncontrolled, 349 00:25:01,559 --> 00:25:08,119 unchecked power. Yet where Kagan saw a problem, Justice Neil 350 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,160 Gorsich saw an opportunity. All right, If you're listening to 351 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:13,680 this show. You know I try to keep up with 352 00:25:13,759 --> 00:25:15,880 all sorts of current events, and I know you do too. 353 00:25:16,039 --> 00:25:18,559 And you've probably heard me say get your news from 354 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:23,200 multiple sources. Why well, because it's how you detect media bias, 355 00:25:23,279 --> 00:25:25,839 which is why I've been so impressed with ground News. 356 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,599 It's an app, and it's a website, and it combines 357 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,720 news from around the world in one place, so you 358 00:25:31,759 --> 00:25:35,119 can compare coverage and verify information. You can check it 359 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,680 out at check dot ground, dot news slash pete. I 360 00:25:39,759 --> 00:25:42,599 put the link in the podcast description too. I started 361 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,359 using ground News a few months ago and more recently 362 00:25:45,559 --> 00:25:47,559 chose to work with them as an affiliate because it 363 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,480 lets me see clearly how stories get covered and by whom. 364 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,680 The blind spot feature shows you which stories get ignored 365 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,640 by the left and the right. See for yourself. Check 366 00:25:57,759 --> 00:26:02,240 dot ground, dot news slash pete. Subscribe through that link 367 00:26:02,279 --> 00:26:05,160 and you'll get fifteen percent off any subscription. I use 368 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,319 the Vantage plan to get unlimited access to every feature. 369 00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:11,319 Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it 370 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,480 also supports ground News as they make the media landscape 371 00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:18,000 more transparent. Let me get to the text line. Some 372 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:23,200 messages here from RJ quoting Federalist paper number forty nine. 373 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,680 No major question of governance should be permanently removed from 374 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:33,039 the reach of the citizens and their elected representatives. He says, 375 00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:36,640 whether every individual outcome is good or bad, the directional 376 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,200 thrust of this court is unmistakable. Major policy fights are 377 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,920 being kicked back to the arena where citizens actually have 378 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,680 a vote, whether through their state legislatures, Congress, or the 379 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,759 president that they just elected. And I am grateful for it, 380 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,359 seven oh four Numbers says regarding Kaitanji Brown Jackson, no 381 00:27:01,519 --> 00:27:04,880 kings or pro kings. Her view of independent experts sounds 382 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,480 a lot like the monarchy in England and Dana the 383 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:14,400 dem I assume I thought you said our government was 384 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:19,000 set up on checks and balances. Well you thought correctly. 385 00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:21,279 I have said that. In fact, you should have learned 386 00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:24,400 that in school. In I'm just kidding, we don't teach 387 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,000 civics anymore, but you probably should have learned that in school. 388 00:27:27,079 --> 00:27:30,440 But it is true checks and balances. She goes on 389 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,920 to say, but it seems as if you too want 390 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,240 the president to have indefinite power and do almost anything 391 00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:45,240 he wants. No, I, in fact, have long argued for 392 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:52,240 reigning in the imperial presidency, reigning in the executive branch. See, 393 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,200 but I am able to look at an issue outside 394 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,759 of a prism of Donald Trump. I'm able to look 395 00:27:57,759 --> 00:28:01,839 at the case as presented and listen to the arguments 396 00:28:02,519 --> 00:28:06,400 with an understanding of the checks and balances system, as 397 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,519 is Justice Neil Gorsich, he says well Amy Howe, writing 398 00:28:11,559 --> 00:28:14,839 its Scotus blog, she says Gorsich has long sought to 399 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,480 revive what's called the non delegation doctrine. This is the 400 00:28:19,559 --> 00:28:25,160 idea that Congress cannot delegate its own lawmaking powers to 401 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:33,039 other institutions. See because Dana, when Congress does stupid stuff 402 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,759 like that, right then there are no more checks and 403 00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:40,839 balances any longer. You're creating a fourth branch of government, 404 00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:47,680 a quote unquote independent agency, not elected by anybody, not 405 00:28:47,839 --> 00:28:51,200 under the control of any of the branches of government, 406 00:28:52,359 --> 00:28:56,920 setting up rules aka laws. That's how we ended up 407 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,519 with the abomination that's Obamacare, because when they wrote the law, 408 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,400 they just offloaded all of the responsibility for writing the 409 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,400 actual details of the law to the Health and Human 410 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,599 Services Secretary. Oh is it like ten thousand times? The 411 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:20,240 phrase the Secretary shall make up the rules. That's not 412 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:25,559 the way this is supposed to work. Gorset emphasized, the 413 00:29:25,599 --> 00:29:29,839 Supreme Court has allowed agencies to exercise a great deal 414 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,720 of power, and in particular significant legislative power, for a 415 00:29:33,839 --> 00:29:37,880 very long time. That doesn't make it right, but that 416 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:43,480 doesn't make it right or constitutional. This idea that the 417 00:29:43,519 --> 00:29:48,759 Supreme Court has never made rulings before that were actually unconstitutional. 418 00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:52,079 It's bizarre to me. The Supreme Court has gotten stuff 419 00:29:52,119 --> 00:29:57,319 wrong all sorts of times. Gorst said, maybe it's time 420 00:29:57,359 --> 00:30:00,000 for the Court to do something about it. This accumulations 421 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:05,720 of power in independent agencies. Kavanaugh echoed that, indicating that 422 00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:11,559 broad delegations to unaccountable independent agencies pose serious questions about 423 00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:16,960 civil liberties and regulatory burdens. Amy Cony Barrett She noted 424 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,960 that Congress once had a legislative veto until the Supreme 425 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,119 Court ruled that was unconstitutional. And here's the thing. When 426 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,640 Congress had that veto, it allowed it to overturn decisions 427 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,319 that were made by these administrative agencies. Congress may have 428 00:30:34,359 --> 00:30:37,079 been willing at one time to give these agencies like 429 00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:40,880 the FTC sweeping powers because Congress thought that it could 430 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:46,920 override the agency decisions. But now independent agencies aren't accountable 431 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,759 to either Congress or the president. That's not a check 432 00:30:49,839 --> 00:30:54,960 or balance, Dana, it's neither. Without that check on their powers, 433 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:01,319 the agencies had become something Congress did not intend. Right, So, 434 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,319 there seemed to be a clear majority on the Court 435 00:31:04,359 --> 00:31:07,079 that is ready to rule that Trump does in fact 436 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:12,480 have the power to fire executive branch employees. But it's 437 00:31:12,559 --> 00:31:15,759 less certain whether these judges are going to take an 438 00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:20,720 additional step of completely overruling the original nineteen thirty five 439 00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:25,440 case called Humphreys Executor. Gorsuch, though, said that the opinion 440 00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:29,680 was poorly reasoned, one of the factors that justices consider 441 00:31:30,119 --> 00:31:35,920 in determining whether to overrule a past precedent. So they could, 442 00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:38,559 but Amy, howse says it didn't seem like there was 443 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,359 enough support, at least articulated during oral arguments. All right, 444 00:31:43,359 --> 00:31:45,720 that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much 445 00:31:45,759 --> 00:31:47,799 for listening. I could not do the show without your 446 00:31:47,839 --> 00:31:50,599 support and the support of the businesses that advertise on 447 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,440 the podcast, So if you'd like, please support them too 448 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,119 and tell them you heard it here. You can also 449 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,799 become a patron at my Patreon page or go to 450 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,640 dpetekallanershow dot com. Again, thank you so much for listening, 451 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:07,599 and don't break anything while I'm gone.