Speaker 1: So if he's got some good hairs and feel, this
Speaker 1: is too good.
Speaker 2: It's not just the fact that he's one, it's the
Speaker 2: way he's played the match.
Speaker 1: That he has a candy bar and an RC coke.
Speaker 1: You are kidding me, come on, and this is unbelievable.
Speaker 3: He might supports some unbelievble energy to the court with
Speaker 3: the fans and then with his play as well and
Speaker 3: with his personality. So it was very, very refreshing to
Speaker 3: play against an appoint like this, you know, who draws
Speaker 3: in the crowds and come with some great shop making.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure he's flowing grass. That's that's good.
Speaker 4: So he starts as we mean to go on, right,
Speaker 4: nothing can go wrong. Now, regular podcasting is a why
Speaker 4: how are you mate?
Speaker 1: I'm doing very well mate, how are you?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm all right, I'm all right. So we we
Speaker 4: obviously did that load. We did a daily windwood and
Speaker 4: pod and then then I've I've to have some barbecues.
Speaker 4: Coaching tennis. Not been up too much, you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not really too much.
Speaker 2: Just been playing playing tennis in various locations and play
Speaker 2: the Grand Slam as you do.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 4: You played the Grand Slam.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I played the Grand Slam US Open. Ah, it
Speaker 2: wasn't part of the script, but there we go.
Speaker 4: That beats my I've had some barbecues anecdote.
Speaker 1: Uh, well, I'll just the barbie, doesn't it.
Speaker 4: That's true. Just let you know. I didn't know you
Speaker 4: were playing the US Open until you went out.
Speaker 1: That's good, that's good. I kept it. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It was so quick it was. It happened so fast.
Speaker 2: I didn't really have time to do too much apart
Speaker 2: from post on Instagram story or whatever until.
Speaker 1: It was all done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Because you know, I found a partner around my
Speaker 2: ranking and we said let well go.
Speaker 1: We booked flights because it started later.
Speaker 2: We bot flights Wednesday and I had the return but
Speaker 2: for Sunday because in case we didn't get in. I
Speaker 2: was at Coldplay Tuesday night at Wembley and then got
Speaker 2: up very early to fly Wednesday.
Speaker 1: So the plan was to sign in see.
Speaker 2: How many we were out, because they did it differently
Speaker 2: this year, and the fact they left eight pairs to
Speaker 2: signing on site in two different locations, so.
Speaker 1: We just didn't know.
Speaker 2: It was kind of the off chance. I've never played
Speaker 2: with this guy. And then we didn't get in. The
Speaker 2: original list and I thought, well that's it because it's
Speaker 2: starting tomorrow, and that twenty four hours later loads of
Speaker 2: pairs are pulled out.
Speaker 1: So we were comfortably in.
Speaker 2: So I got called into the referee office and saying
Speaker 2: you said, how would you like to play US Open?
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, go on there.
Speaker 4: Just a bit, and.
Speaker 2: Then we saw the draw was Thompson Ebden who you know,
Speaker 2: Thompson have won the previous year, so.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's brilliant, but oh no.
Speaker 4: And Ebden has been playing four years. Great serve a
Speaker 4: great volley, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was just a very crafty, good player, being number
Speaker 2: one in the world one slams and Thompson, you know,
Speaker 2: he's taking my pants down a few times.
Speaker 1: So although we were I was buzzing to be in.
Speaker 2: It was like, right now, I've got a I just
Speaker 2: wanted to go out there and perform what you know.
Speaker 2: You don't want to go out and lose two and
Speaker 2: two or you know, just turn up because I guess
Speaker 2: these moments are what you train for, what you play
Speaker 2: all the other tournaments for, is to turn up and
Speaker 2: give a good account yourself. So that was my that
Speaker 2: was my fear as it were was to go out
Speaker 2: there and you know, not not compete well and not
Speaker 2: not play well, which is I guess always a fear,
Speaker 2: but even more so, you.
Speaker 1: Know, with a bit of jet lag and and not
Speaker 1: the best.
Speaker 2: Preparation because we couldn't we weren't allowed to practice on
Speaker 2: match courts. We were you know, stuck at the indoor center.
Speaker 2: So I hit indoors a couple of times. We got
Speaker 2: a buggy to offsite practice courts to hit there. So
Speaker 2: so yeah, it wasn't It wasn't the best prep and
Speaker 2: that concerned me a bit.
Speaker 4: And so you haven't who was your partner.
Speaker 2: Carol Drizzki, polish guy, absolute monster, doesn't look like he
Speaker 2: should be playing tennis.
Speaker 4: And have you did you know him before? Like how
Speaker 4: did that relationship come about?
Speaker 2: We went for dinner together in San Marino, me and
Speaker 2: the partner I was playing within him.
Speaker 1: Got on really well with him.
Speaker 2: He's, you know, got a good light sense of humor,
Speaker 2: quite a funny guy. And I guess we just kept
Speaker 2: in touch because everyone's trying to look for partners with
Speaker 2: slams and you know, he was speaking to a couple
Speaker 2: of guys. I was speaking to a couple of guys,
Speaker 2: and in the end he said, let's just let's just
Speaker 2: sign see what happens.
Speaker 1: And we were joking with Jo about it, going, oh,
Speaker 1: you'll turn up and win the thing.
Speaker 2: You know, people won't know what's hit them.
Speaker 1: But in the end we did all right.
Speaker 4: So, I mean he's played every Slam this year, hasn't.
Speaker 1: He as an alternate?
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he's lost in the first round every of
Speaker 4: every slam.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was his record this year, which I think
Speaker 2: he's had a couple of tough ones and.
Speaker 4: And he's around eighty in the world.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I think he's got a bit to defend
Speaker 2: now from last year. But yeah, good player, just just
Speaker 2: huge bit of a loose cannon that goes after returns.
Speaker 1: Hard talented, talented boy, just a little bit mental.
Speaker 4: Well, you've got so much in common. I don't have
Speaker 4: the power he has, but but you got all the other.
Speaker 1: Bitt We've got the mental bit. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Okay, So you basically made it sound easier to into
Speaker 4: a Grand Slam than it is to join in like
Speaker 4: my club singles tournament, where there's several emails back and
Speaker 4: forth with organizers and stuff like that. So you roll up,
Speaker 4: you've got the golf cart and then first round.
Speaker 2: Yeah, first round schedule came out the night before, so
Speaker 2: obviously you arrange your practice court, your arrange match kit, racket,
Speaker 2: stuff like that, and then yeah, we got out there
Speaker 2: and and one and we won seven sixty six two.
Speaker 2: I think I believe And.
Speaker 4: Are you genuinely like when you win? Are you is it? Like?
Speaker 4: How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2: I was a bit in shock, really because you know,
Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting to win, and you know, a couple
Speaker 2: of days before we were weren't even in the tournament,
Speaker 2: and it just happened very very fast. So I was
Speaker 2: a bit shocked. I was a bit emotional, didn't really
Speaker 2: know what was going on. And you know, an hour before,
Speaker 2: you're on surf but holding holding on in.
Speaker 1: There that they're very good, and then.
Speaker 2: You know, you realize Ebden's elbow or shoulder was gone
Speaker 2: to a serf, completely slowed down.
Speaker 1: He was struggling on that.
Speaker 2: And then you realize, oh, wait, we've got a chance here,
Speaker 2: and that that shift of mentality from I'm hanging on
Speaker 2: for dear life to let's get this done is very strange.
Speaker 1: And then you know when you've won and you're in
Speaker 1: the second round of a slam.
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, you know you've got to change
Speaker 2: your flights, and it's like, wow, this is amazing.
Speaker 4: At what point do you think about the actual bureaucracy,
Speaker 4: the admin around around that. Is it like because that
Speaker 4: that that second set against Eden and Thompson, you're six
Speaker 4: to two, right, so when you get to five two,
Speaker 4: are you thinking Christ.
Speaker 2: No, I'm thinking let's get let's get through this game.
Speaker 2: Let's let's finish this off, because you don't have many chances. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and these matches against good players can swear. Although the
Speaker 2: you know, their heads were down a bit, it takes
Speaker 2: you know, one break and then you're serving at five
Speaker 2: four and tight and they're confident and you know you
Speaker 2: can easily be in a third set with no time
Speaker 2: or breakdown. So in my head, it was just get
Speaker 2: through this and and then enjoy it. And then yeah,
Speaker 2: by the time I'm back at the locker rooms or
Speaker 2: you know, stretching or whatever, then we're looking at Okay,
Speaker 2: let's change the flight, let's book practice for tomorrow, let's yeah,
Speaker 2: let's let's crack on.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: In the second in the second round, you've got peers
Speaker 4: and with row.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Now Peers has won three slams, world number two, yep,
Speaker 4: something like that, Jackson withrow, double specialist, top twenty, maybe
Speaker 4: top ten, right, but one title.
Speaker 2: Ten and defending the Semis from the year before the Europa.
Speaker 4: So there's no chance that you've beaten them. So what
Speaker 4: did you do.
Speaker 2: My partner's shoulders was packed in as well, so he
Speaker 2: was struggling with that, just in pain, so taking a
Speaker 2: lot of painkillers. So the pressure was off in that sense.
Speaker 2: It was like, let's get out there, and we knew
Speaker 2: we could hold against them. They're not the best returners,
Speaker 2: you know, they're very very good tennis players, but you know,
Speaker 2: if you serve well and then and you move well,
Speaker 2: you can get holds on the board. And that's ultimately
Speaker 2: how we won in the end. I suppose I played
Speaker 2: a loose game in the first to get broken. We
Speaker 2: hardly won a point on their serve. I think we
Speaker 2: won one point on their serve and it was a
Speaker 2: double fault. And then we got we broke Peers and
Speaker 2: three to two in the second or two to one
Speaker 2: in the second, and then I don't think we lost server.
Speaker 2: After that, we had a we had a love forty
Speaker 2: game that we got through in the third, we just
Speaker 2: we just hung in there, and you know that they
Speaker 2: missed their opportunity. They choked a little bit, I'd say
Speaker 2: for them, You know, peers, mister Volley probably wouldn't miss
Speaker 2: too often.
Speaker 1: At nine to seven, partner hit a very hard mind.
Speaker 2: But and then once you're in that ten point tiebreak,
Speaker 2: it's it's anything can happen, as you know, as you know,
Speaker 2: anything can happen, and it was. We were down most
Speaker 2: of it, so it's a case of hanging in there
Speaker 2: and keeping the score close. And then you know, on
Speaker 2: the bigger points we made our shots and they didn't,
Speaker 2: I suppose.
Speaker 1: Towards the end.
Speaker 2: But yeah, after that, I was completely surprised because I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: we weren't expecting to win. Piers missed quite an easy
Speaker 2: overhead for us to win it at twelve eleven, so
Speaker 2: that that was a shock in.
Speaker 1: Itself as well.
Speaker 2: But yeah, then you're in the third round of a
Speaker 2: Slam and it's like, what's going on here?
Speaker 1: What is going on here?
Speaker 4: Wow? And unfortunately that's where the journey finished. You would
Speaker 4: have set up a little British clash with sorcery and Skopski, right, Yeah,
Speaker 4: we were three steps when the distance.
Speaker 2: But my partner, he said if we had won that
Speaker 2: he would have had to pull out. He was in
Speaker 2: an awful lot of pain. I actually hurt my wrist
Speaker 2: in the second set of the second round, yeah, because
Speaker 2: with Row hit a serve and I caught the return
Speaker 2: and it took my wrist back, so I couldn't hit
Speaker 2: over a back end, so I was chipping and blocking
Speaker 2: back had his serve completely went for his standards. You know,
Speaker 2: even in the first that he was struggling, but we
Speaker 2: were getting through holds, so it's just really difficult. I
Speaker 2: lost myself once in the third, but other than that
Speaker 2: it was quite quite comfortable. We got quite unlucky in
Speaker 2: that game, but so I was holding my serves quite comfortably,
Speaker 2: and we were losing his towards the second or third
Speaker 2: nearly every time he couldn't he couldn't serve, and then
Speaker 2: my hats started getting confident and the other guy's very
Speaker 2: good as well.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it kind of got away from us.
Speaker 2: But towards the end it felt pretty impossible to win
Speaker 2: with with me not being abut to it my strongest return,
Speaker 2: him not being able to hit his strongest, you know, weapon,
Speaker 2: which is his serve. It felt frustrating in a way,
Speaker 2: but then I had to tell myself, Look, if you
Speaker 2: would have told yourself this a week ago, you know,
Speaker 2: singing sky full of Stars a few days before, I
Speaker 2: think I'd have been all right with it.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: See you partner Carol again. I like that, Carol. It
Speaker 4: makes him sound like he's a fifty five year old woman.
Speaker 4: But would you do you partner Carol again now? About?
Speaker 1: I'd love to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're in touch. He's still injured though, his shoulder
Speaker 2: still bad. He played Davis Cup for Poland and beat
Speaker 2: Cashing Glasspall the next week, a couple of weeks after whatever,
Speaker 2: but his shoulder still hasn't got better. So we're in
Speaker 2: touch quite a lot, and we message each other quite
Speaker 2: a lot as friends. So yeah, I'd love to play
Speaker 2: with him because it's fun. It's fun out there. You know,
Speaker 2: he's not one of these serious people who's you know,
Speaker 2: drilling intensity every point. He's having a laugh sometimes as well,
Speaker 2: which is how I play better tennis. And it's fun, right,
Speaker 2: It's very rare where tennis is fun and it's just nice.
Speaker 1: You'll play a huge event and be relaxed.
Speaker 4: You're eighty one in the world at the moment. He's
Speaker 4: around there about eighty three. Do you does that? What
Speaker 4: does that mean for like the Aussie Open, I mean.
Speaker 2: The cut last year was one sixty. I'm losing my
Speaker 2: Taiwan points. From next week, I'm going to be around
Speaker 2: eighty eight eighty nine. I've got three weeks to go.
Speaker 2: He's I don't know if he's playing, But these conversations
Speaker 2: are going to happen in two three weeks time. When
Speaker 2: I mean the entries, I think Christmas Eve or something
Speaker 2: like that. But there's gonna be a lot of people
Speaker 2: trying to get within one forty one fifty. You know,
Speaker 2: I've only been back two weeks because I had to
Speaker 2: I had to go and get a scan on my wrist,
Speaker 2: have an injection and take four weeks out. So I've
Speaker 2: not hit the ground running too well yet. So I've
Speaker 2: got three weeks to try and change that and then
Speaker 2: these conversations will happen. But to tell you, there'll be
Speaker 2: ten messages in my inbox and there'll probably be ten
Speaker 2: flying out of my inbox for people trying to get
Speaker 2: into Australia in three weeks is probably a generous amount.
Speaker 2: It gets quite quite heavy. It's quite heavy on the
Speaker 2: phone of people trying to pair up. Yeah, really so,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'd love to play with him, but
Speaker 2: it depends on his ranking.
Speaker 4: And definitely in your plans, right, Yeah, if I.
Speaker 2: Can get near to it, if I if I'm two
Speaker 2: or three outs by the time the deadline's gone, I'll
Speaker 2: travel yet, but I'm not gonna I'm not going to
Speaker 2: enter with a singles guy basically because they can just
Speaker 2: pull out like what happened last year.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to I'm not going to you know,
Speaker 1: fly across the world for that.
Speaker 2: I can just you know, worst case scenario, which is
Speaker 2: really good considering my start of the year was rubbish
Speaker 2: West Coast scenario. I don't get in Australia. I I
Speaker 2: need four or five hundred points to make Roland Garros
Speaker 2: in five six months.
Speaker 4: We wouldn't it be a great target in twenty twenty
Speaker 4: six to just be you know, to play in all
Speaker 4: of the slams.
Speaker 2: That is my goal was to play all the slams.
Speaker 2: I'd like to wear matches and all the slams. As well,
Speaker 2: so you know, being fussy over here. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 2: from from what I've from what I've experienced so far,
Speaker 2: even more so, we know how how tightly knit the
Speaker 2: doubles is. It's the level differences aren't huge from what
Speaker 2: I've seen so far. Obviously, you take the top top
Speaker 2: your turin pairs out and you maybe top twenty pairs,
Speaker 2: but in slams it's it's there's not a huge difference
Speaker 2: in level between you know, the guys I've certainly played
Speaker 2: with and against, and then you play a challenger one
Speaker 2: week and are playing really really well there as well.
Speaker 1: Just slightly different in terms of the way they set up.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I've got belief that if I'm around that
Speaker 2: environment enough, I can win win more matches.
Speaker 4: You've celebrated a birthday this month, right, so you've just
Speaker 4: turned thirty five. But again, in doubles a bit like
Speaker 4: a goalkeeper in football, isn't it like you look through
Speaker 4: that top fifty places in the atp plenty of players
Speaker 4: around your age.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this guy's in their forties competing, Yeah,
Speaker 2: which is crazy.
Speaker 1: You have to look after your body.
Speaker 2: Well that my body's you know, I'm having more and
Speaker 2: more problems, but it's manageable. You can go on to
Speaker 2: a double score and play if you're not quite one
Speaker 2: hundred percent there, if you've got a slight you know,
Speaker 2: nigger and you know I've had chin splints. I've kind
Speaker 2: of played through a little bit. In singles, you don't
Speaker 2: have a chance to do that. You know, we played
Speaker 2: against you, Ebden Thompson. I think he's taken some time
Speaker 2: out now, but he turned up and played. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's no way you do that in singles. You can
Speaker 2: play not one hundred percent fit in doubles, and that's
Speaker 2: what people are doing. You know that there's you know,
Speaker 2: top payers that have had injuries this year and they've
Speaker 2: just cracked on or you know, being careful with it
Speaker 2: and played certain tournaments.
Speaker 4: Well, just the adventure continues, mate, does it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I guess so.
Speaker 4: On a bit of a handbrake turn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we like those.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I had an interview with you the other day
Speaker 4: about mental health and it's something that we've we've like obviously,
Speaker 4: we know each other very well and it's something that
Speaker 4: we've spoken about for years and we had a conversation
Speaker 4: that on the podcast. We talk about crisps or stupid stuff,
Speaker 4: but is there a space to think about something with
Speaker 4: a little bit more depth and gravitas And it was
Speaker 4: something that you wanted to kind of bring up today, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's something that if people are listening you we're
Speaker 2: all going through stuff like that.
Speaker 1: That's what I understand. Everyone's got stuff going on.
Speaker 2: That if there's listeners listening in that are struggling with something,
Speaker 2: we can we can touch on stuff or share experiences
Speaker 2: or you know, I think the worst thing is is,
Speaker 2: you know, from my point of view, when I'm thinking
Speaker 2: things or when I'm going through something, you feel like
Speaker 2: you're the only person in the world going through it,
Speaker 2: or you're a freak or you know, which I am.
Speaker 2: But it's just I think it's nice to kind of
Speaker 2: be a bit more together on that and yeah, share
Speaker 2: experiences and maybe get people on at some point. You know,
Speaker 2: I've got friends who work in that sector and you know,
Speaker 2: help people out and then go back to talking about crisps.
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a crisp based podcast really, but no, I
Speaker 2: thought it would be nice. You know, my experiences have
Speaker 2: been being strange this year. Obviously after Australia, I was
Speaker 2: really down for a while, and what.
Speaker 4: Does that look like for you, mate?
Speaker 1: What does it look like in terms of mental when.
Speaker 4: You say you were really down down?
Speaker 1: Oh mate? Differently?
Speaker 2: So after Australia, I was I was desperate to get
Speaker 2: back and play and compete and really eager to crack
Speaker 2: on hit next year. But I was kind of desperate,
Speaker 2: you know. I was anxious on court. I wanted to
Speaker 2: win every single shot. I wanted to win every single point.
Speaker 2: I was overthinking everything. I was double faulting on big points.
Speaker 2: I didn't know where to stand. I froze at times
Speaker 2: and it was flipping horrendous and I didn't know. I
Speaker 2: didn't know why. But that was a stage in my
Speaker 2: career where you know, I get home and everything's normal
Speaker 2: with kids and it's lovely, but you still think about it, right,
Speaker 2: you fly home and you've put in a poor performance
Speaker 2: and you're working harder than ever. It was difficult, and
Speaker 2: it wasn't until I got to Mexico in April where
Speaker 2: I kind of said to myself, right, well, just go
Speaker 2: play tennis and enjoy it, and it doesn't matter if
Speaker 2: you lose.
Speaker 1: Just go and play.
Speaker 2: And you know, I didn't win every the fourth tournament
Speaker 2: we won, but you know, we lost the first round
Speaker 2: out there court a semis and then won the last one.
Speaker 2: But I was so much happier, and then I could
Speaker 2: see like, Okay, I can I can keep playing like
Speaker 2: this because if that, you know, if that carried on
Speaker 2: for longer, you know, you think about is this worth it?
Speaker 2: You know, I'm traveling around the world, losing, losing money, unhappy, anxious.
Speaker 2: How long can you really do that for? And that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that was a really really tricky point in my life.
Speaker 2: I guess I just had to keep working through it.
Speaker 2: And because I put all the reps in, by the
Speaker 2: time I was ready to relax and enjoy it, I was,
Speaker 2: you know, good enough to play well. Yeah, and then
Speaker 2: the grass season. Grass season's intense. Always it's amazing. But
Speaker 2: then you know you're desperate to go and play well
Speaker 2: and compete because you know all the people that have
Speaker 2: supported you, or your family or your friends are watching
Speaker 2: and cheering you on, and you don't want to let
Speaker 2: them down. But ultimately I've said to myself, just do
Speaker 2: what you can do, try your best. I try and
Speaker 2: to take that away now and go, well, yeah, go compete. Obviously,
Speaker 2: some nerves are normal you know, there's a lot going
Speaker 2: on that, you know, the in British grass cat season.
Speaker 2: I had my dad who was an intensive care just
Speaker 2: for Queen's How is he now? He's back up and going. Man,
Speaker 2: Yeah he's cruising my sounds of it. Yeah he's doing well.
Speaker 2: But that was, yeah, really tricky. I'm grateful, I mean,
Speaker 2: and the but the thing we kind of all said
Speaker 2: after it's sad in a way, but it was so
Speaker 2: nice to have all the family together and just just
Speaker 2: back to basics, you know, just looking after each other.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I was getting the train from where I live every
Speaker 2: day again to the hospital seeing my mum's sister brother
Speaker 2: and we were we were so close and it was
Speaker 2: just really nice to go for lunch with them. And
Speaker 2: I think, I don't know, sometimes for me, this life
Speaker 2: life gets in the way when everyone's healthy or you
Speaker 2: think they're healthy, and you crack on your guh you know.
Speaker 1: I'll see I'll see you when I can see you.
Speaker 2: And and that was an eye opener for me is
Speaker 2: to is to you know, catch up with family more often.
Speaker 1: It's difficult with my job and you know for kids
Speaker 1: and Jenny working and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: But you know, it was some some real big life
Speaker 2: lessons for me, and there actually that, Yeah, my my
Speaker 2: career is important, but there's not drop in the open
Speaker 2: ocean and anything else, I suppose, But.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but stressful and sad and worrying.
Speaker 2: You know, didn't sleep very well for a few days,
Speaker 2: and then you're worrying about your mum and then everyone else,
Speaker 2: and then you've got your kids, and then you've you're
Speaker 2: trying to hold it all together. And then a few
Speaker 2: weeks later, you're playing at Queens and you know, you
Speaker 2: came out of ice, you and a massive weight was
Speaker 2: dropped and I went and played really well and everything was.
Speaker 1: And we're we're closer than another now, which is which
Speaker 1: is awesome?
Speaker 4: And do you feel now that you know, just on
Speaker 4: a day to day basis, you feel less anxious, happier,
Speaker 4: You've you've kind of taken enough time for yourself to
Speaker 4: consider things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, on a day to day basis, it's a time out.
Speaker 1: It's different stresses.
Speaker 2: But you know, after us have my wrist injury and
Speaker 2: it's I get very comfortable being at home and nipping
Speaker 2: to the gym and going to my favorite coffee shop,
Speaker 2: and you know, I love that life it's actually getting
Speaker 2: going again, which is, you know, the last week I've
Speaker 2: been you know, very good. I've been training again and
Speaker 2: back at tournaments and and stuff like that. So so
Speaker 2: for me, the different challenge now is is getting myself
Speaker 2: going and making it matter again, because after all that,
Speaker 2: I was like, well, you know, it's it's it's tennis.
Speaker 2: You know, you your family, got your health, and there's
Speaker 2: more more important.
Speaker 1: Things going on.
Speaker 2: But now it's actually getting back in that work mindset
Speaker 2: of no, I've got to treat this like it's everything again.
Speaker 1: And the motivation has been difficult.
Speaker 2: But the difference between me now and me at nineteen
Speaker 2: is I still go up and do it. If I
Speaker 2: feel like crap, I still hit the gym session. But
Speaker 2: you know, I'm very lucky. I've got a fitness trainer
Speaker 2: who sets me specific things to do, so I go
Speaker 2: to the gym.
Speaker 1: Without that, i'd struggle. I can get quite in my
Speaker 1: own head.
Speaker 2: And then you know, when I don't have a plan,
Speaker 2: it's not like if I look at the the end
Speaker 2: of the day to what I've done that day and
Speaker 2: I don't have a plan, it's not that much, mate,
Speaker 2: It's not that much.
Speaker 1: And then I feel guilty about that. Come on, you
Speaker 1: need to need to crack on, you need to get better.
Speaker 2: But actually, but actually sometimes you do just need to
Speaker 2: put the brakes on and chill and stick Netflix on
Speaker 2: and pick your kids up from school and cook them dinner.
Speaker 1: And it's yeah, I felt guilty about that for some time.
Speaker 2: But now I'm like, as long as you get your
Speaker 2: job done and do it to the best of your ability,
Speaker 2: then you can.
Speaker 1: Kind of do what you want. There's different challenges all
Speaker 1: the time. On me. I find Yeah, and I used to.
Speaker 2: Eat my problems away, and then I drank my problems away,
Speaker 2: and then you left with I don't want to do
Speaker 2: that either, and then you're kind of left in this
Speaker 2: like empty, empty hole of almost of almost nothing. It
Speaker 2: sounds really deep, but you know that's how I feel sometimes.
Speaker 4: I suppose, Yeah, but you and I have had enough
Speaker 4: conversations that both of us have been in those places. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, you overdo something to get rid of your problems,
Speaker 4: whatever that is, it's.
Speaker 1: Just for me. It's escapism. It was escapism. You know.
Speaker 2: I trained hard when I was earlier, but I was
Speaker 2: when I was younger, but I was massively out of shape.
Speaker 1: It was a problem that I didn't realize.
Speaker 2: And I always kind of laughed at off, and you know,
Speaker 2: I wanted to make other people laugh, so you know
Speaker 2: it would it would detract, I guess from the truth.
Speaker 2: But I didn't know that at the time.
Speaker 4: Have you have you seen like professionals, have you sat
Speaker 4: with people.
Speaker 1: Focus to people?
Speaker 2: And I've now I've got good friends who have been
Speaker 2: through a similar thing. And you know, when you when
Speaker 2: you're younger, it's difficult, but now it's it's about for me.
Speaker 1: It's about being honest with myself. And I never really was.
Speaker 2: I don't think, you know, I was out of shape,
Speaker 2: but i'd make excuses. I'd go, oh, yeah, but I've
Speaker 2: had it tough, or you know, I'm a big lad,
Speaker 2: or i'd.
Speaker 1: Laugh off completely.
Speaker 2: But but then I'm you know, in my head it
Speaker 2: was it was really hard, mate, because I would be
Speaker 2: on the treadmill the next day. During the thirty thirties,
Speaker 2: I'd do more treadmill sessions than anyone else. I'd have
Speaker 2: more fresh starts than anyone else the whole time, and
Speaker 2: then by Wednesday it's all gone to shit again, and
Speaker 2: you're like, excuse my language, but You're like you know,
Speaker 2: my intention was so good, but when you've got something underlying,
Speaker 2: that's that's.
Speaker 1: You know, screwing you.
Speaker 2: I suppose I found it impossible personally without you know,
Speaker 2: understanding why I was the way I was.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's an onward journey.
Speaker 2: But yeah, if I'm honest with myself and how I
Speaker 2: feel and actually hold myself accountable to you know, being
Speaker 2: honest with myself.
Speaker 1: And because I think everyone's got it to some.
Speaker 2: Some degree, right we like some people kid themselves and go,
Speaker 2: it's fine if we just have this another biscuit and
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. But I just I feel like I've
Speaker 2: got to be really on it with that stuff because
Speaker 2: if I'm not, it can get out of hand. You know,
Speaker 2: I've fluctuated and wait all my life, you know, experimented
Speaker 2: with drink and stuff, and it's it's it's not really
Speaker 2: worked for me. It's made things a whole lot worse.
Speaker 2: So although it's you know, a lot busier in my head,
Speaker 2: I'm in a lot better place with it. I kind
Speaker 2: of know who I am a lot better now than
Speaker 2: I did when I was younger.
Speaker 4: I think that's the key, isn't it. Discovery? Like self discovery,
Speaker 4: and that can sound like just waffle. I think if
Speaker 4: you're not in that mindset, you think, well, I know
Speaker 4: who I am, I've got ID I know where I live.
Speaker 1: But yeah, exactly. People used to say I found myself,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 4: I used to say that all the time, Like, what
Speaker 4: do you mean?
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? I found you first?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know where you are right here. So, like,
Speaker 4: the the thing with like, I just feel in my
Speaker 4: set that I've got huge personality flaws. And that's kind
Speaker 4: of taken from that crucial growing up period of going
Speaker 4: to school, doing sport that, not being great at this
Speaker 4: and that, and and all of those kind of formative
Speaker 4: years of growing mean that there's this like insecurity or
Speaker 4: a need to satisfying ego, or there's something that's not
Speaker 4: right now. You can work on yourself, obviously, and you
Speaker 4: can try and change that, but these are quite deep
Speaker 4: innate reactions to situations. Yes, if I don't feel valued
Speaker 4: or respected or something like that, my go to is
Speaker 4: to be pretty horrible as a person, Right, I'll go
Speaker 4: straight into like deathcom red and start lashing out. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: and then that will make me feel worse. But then
Speaker 4: you can, you know, you can have a twist and
Speaker 4: a pint and things.
Speaker 1: And exactly and that makes it all better.
Speaker 4: For sure, that for that five minutes. But then there's
Speaker 4: like this cycle and after a while you start seeing
Speaker 4: the same cycle, and you know, I spoke to someone
Speaker 4: and got some help because that, you know. One of
Speaker 4: the reasons why this podcast has been really inconsistent is
Speaker 4: over what two years ago, my mom died and the
Speaker 4: year before that, my dad died, you know, a year
Speaker 4: and two days apart. Now, my dad is very old,
Speaker 4: he was nearly a hundred, but my mum was fully fit,
Speaker 4: seven two year old and uh, you know, died of
Speaker 4: lung cancer within three months of diagnosis, and no one
Speaker 4: was ready. She was at a spin class and twelve
Speaker 4: weeks later gone, And I wasn't ready for it. And
Speaker 4: I've actually found my personality flaws where she would bail
Speaker 4: me out of having like as you know, as insecurities
Speaker 4: or a small ego or whatever. I could ring her
Speaker 4: and she would back me up. She was always in the.
Speaker 2: Car justific not justify it, but that'd make you feel better, right,
Speaker 2: because that's what parents do.
Speaker 4: Right, And I feel that's made that. Basically, I've had
Speaker 4: two and a half years of the first eighteen months
Speaker 4: of that just loopy. I'm just loopy. I was doing
Speaker 4: everything just like rattling around. And it's so hard in
Speaker 4: that situation to hold down a job, hold down routine,
Speaker 4: still be a dad, still be someone's friend, a nephew
Speaker 4: or whatever. And I kind of got to the point
Speaker 4: of I've got a little red, orange and green system. Now, okay, okay,
Speaker 4: so this is this is my system. If I'm in green,
Speaker 4: as in I feel like I'm pretty on top of
Speaker 4: things routine wise, diet, all of that, and I feel
Speaker 4: like I'm okay, then I do everything I can right,
Speaker 4: So I can I can go to work, I take
Speaker 4: time off, I can speak to people, I can go
Speaker 4: out of whatever. Right. If I'm in orange, then I
Speaker 4: need to pull up the drawbridge on the things that
Speaker 4: ultimately don't matter to me. So an example of that
Speaker 4: would be overworking or overtraining, or being too worried about
Speaker 4: what I'm eating, right, the art of not giving a shit.
Speaker 4: Really yeah, And there are certain things you do where
Speaker 4: you know someone will say, oh, can you do this
Speaker 4: for me, and you go, yeah, no problem. And if
Speaker 4: I'm in an orange position. It's because I'm starting to
Speaker 4: feel like a little bit like things could be overwhelming
Speaker 4: me a bit, and it's actually easier for me to say,
Speaker 4: I can't do that right now, I'll do it, I'll
Speaker 4: do it when I'm ready or whatever. It's actually easier
Speaker 4: to do that rather than what I have done before
Speaker 4: is force myself to do things, force myself to go
Speaker 4: into social situations, create anxieties or whatever, and if I'm
Speaker 4: in red, nothing at all. Because one thing I learned
Speaker 4: after my mom died was I had three weeks off
Speaker 4: and I came back to work. And at the time,
Speaker 4: I was running a tennis coaching company over three clubs.
Speaker 4: I had multiple colleagues, people working alongside me, people working
Speaker 4: with me. I was working alongside a committee. My wife
Speaker 4: gave up work because we didn't have like a child
Speaker 4: support network in the same way without my mum being around.
Speaker 4: So I was a sold breadwinner and I was really
Speaker 4: panicked on that. Right, So I went and did all
Speaker 4: of this stuff, but I really needed to stop. Yeah,
Speaker 4: only looking back now, I realized that I was no
Speaker 4: good to anyone. I fell out with people. The tennis
Speaker 4: coaching company kind of suffered massively. Like the size of
Speaker 4: it is, you know, like I made enemies, I said
Speaker 4: things to people I regret. I was just horrible. And
Speaker 4: what I should have actually done is said, I'm going
Speaker 4: on a mortgage break. I'm not working until I feel ready.
Speaker 4: I cannot do anything. I'm in a complete red zone.
Speaker 4: I can just about get to the shops. I can
Speaker 4: hang out with my kids, I can watch Indiana Jones.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's it, and I'm out.
Speaker 2: But you don't want to do that at the time
Speaker 2: because you feel like you failed.
Speaker 4: Had I done that, though, I would have been back quicker. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I would have given myself more chance and less anxieties
Speaker 4: around being a twap to people basically. And I have
Speaker 4: reached out back to some people and said, look, that
Speaker 4: wasn't me. Sorry, And then I know there's other people
Speaker 4: where I can't reach out to them, and that's that right.
Speaker 4: And all I can do is think about people who
Speaker 4: are going to meet me in the future and them
Speaker 4: not thinking but actually, right now, like you said to
Speaker 4: me before we started recording, are we good to go
Speaker 4: on the podcast? Absolutely? I'm green. I'm in a green zone.
Speaker 4: If it does go to orange and the weather and
Speaker 4: working outside and all of that, that's going to turn
Speaker 4: it a little bit. But actually, right now I feel
Speaker 4: like more in control and in a better place than
Speaker 4: I have done for I don't know, maybe ever good.
Speaker 2: That's awesome to hear man, it's a horrible thing. There's
Speaker 2: no right answer for unfortunate.
Speaker 4: I think you're right to bring it up and for
Speaker 4: us not to dwell on it or to make multiple
Speaker 4: podcasts about it, or to try and become like mental
Speaker 4: health gurus. But no, you're right. If I her two
Speaker 4: normal people talking about it, not talking about me doing
Speaker 4: like breathing exercises in a zumba class, Yeah, to normal
Speaker 4: people talking about this, at some point i'd have thought, look,
Speaker 4: I'm normal as well. It's all right. Yeah and yeah,
Speaker 4: So I think you're right to bring it up. And
Speaker 4: look if we get reaction and feedback that people want
Speaker 4: us to talk about it more than we will, people
Speaker 4: want to share stories them.
Speaker 2: Sure right, yeah, yeah, no, I think it'd be really
Speaker 2: nice thing to touch on and do sometimes as much
Speaker 2: as you know, as much as people want, we will
Speaker 2: go back to string engines and grips at some point.
Speaker 4: I think that red Yeah as.
Speaker 1: Well, We're not We're not doing any Red Zone podcasts
Speaker 1: here no.
Speaker 4: I mean, look, we just just a quick one to
Speaker 4: finish on and thinking about things of great debt. Cheese
Speaker 4: an onion or salt of vinegar. What do you reckon?
Speaker 1: Cheese and onion? Cheese and onion always?
Speaker 4: Do you know what I think if you take one
Speaker 4: thing from this podcast is cheese and onion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, cheese and onion, salt and vinegar. I mean it depends.
Speaker 2: If you're abroad, you just go ready salted late in
Speaker 2: Spain or Italy you just go playing and it works.
Speaker 1: But if you if you buy them in the UK,
Speaker 1: then you need to check in with someone.
Speaker 4: The only time I've a ready sorted is if you're
Speaker 4: in a bar and they bring you an egg cup
Speaker 4: full of nine crisps.
Speaker 1: Sometimes that's the only My French League team do that.
Speaker 1: Before dinner. You'll meet up.
Speaker 2: I don't know why, because you just stand around and
Speaker 2: then they bring out the tiniest thing with curry popcorn
Speaker 2: last year, but it's like five bits in there and
Speaker 2: I'm sat there obviously like the person. I am just
Speaker 2: munching them and going okay, when are they going to
Speaker 2: get topped up?
Speaker 1: Where's the real bowl here.
Speaker 4: Yes, I need the sauce, I need the dealer. Get
Speaker 4: me here, just get.
Speaker 1: Me the bag, just get me the whole bag.
Speaker 2: But yes, it's a strange run that whereas I don't
Speaker 2: I think in England we're just just greedy, aren't we really?
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm quite possibly? All right, maybe let's let's podcast
Speaker 4: again very soon. Okay, maybe something towards the end of
Speaker 4: the week.
Speaker 1: Perfect, See you all again soon