Speaker 1: Hi, I'm your host, Doctor Lorie, and welcome to Universally Unique,
Speaker 1: Exploring the neurodiverse world of the extraordinary. This podcast foster's
Speaker 1: curiosity and understanding about neurodiversity while empowering individuals with tools
Speaker 1: for acceptance and inclusion in classrooms, the workplace, and communities.
Speaker 1: Featuring shared stories of neurodiverse life experiences, it sheds light
Speaker 1: on navigating the world not designed for diversity. Universally Unique
Speaker 1: starts now. Hi, I'm doctor Lorie. My guest today is Mary.
Speaker 2: Slowly.
Speaker 1: Mary is going to share her journey with her adult son.
Speaker 1: After we take three box breaths. When we do the
Speaker 1: box breaths, I will count to us. We'll take three
Speaker 1: breaths in. Excuse me, We'll take four breaths in and
Speaker 1: we'll hold for four. Well, exhale for four, we'll hold
Speaker 1: for four. We'll take another breath and we'll do three
Speaker 1: three rounds of that. So, starting now, breathe in two
Speaker 1: three four, hold two three four, breathe out two three four,
Speaker 1: hold two three four. Breathe in two three four, hold
Speaker 1: two three four. Breathe out two three four, hold two
Speaker 1: three four. Breathe in two three four, hold two three four,
Speaker 1: breathe out two three four, hold two three four, and
Speaker 1: finished with a nice sigh three brass.
Speaker 2: That's all.
Speaker 1: That's that should be all it takes to kind of
Speaker 1: get your nervous system reset. So just a little information
Speaker 1: about Mary. Part of Mary's story made sound a little
Speaker 1: familiar to some of you who have listened to the
Speaker 1: previous podcast, because I interviewed Mary's daughter Kelly Hall in
Speaker 1: our last episode, and she does actually mention her brother,
Speaker 1: and I suspect that Mary may mentioned her grandson just
Speaker 1: a little bit. So everyone, somehow is all intertwined. For
Speaker 1: those of you who have been listening to the podcast
Speaker 1: for a while, you have probably figured out that every
Speaker 1: person that I have brought on is somehow connected to
Speaker 1: me in some way or connected to someone that I
Speaker 1: that I know. So, Mary, why don't you tell us
Speaker 1: a bit about the journey that you've been on with Travis,
Speaker 1: Like when you noticed that things were not going quite
Speaker 1: as expected. He's what the third of your children, correct,
Speaker 1: So you had a couple of children that were developing
Speaker 1: as expected, So you may have spotted things a little
Speaker 1: faster than if he had been here first born. But
Speaker 1: so tell us a bit about him okay.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: At the time Travis was born, we lived in rural
Speaker 3: South Dakota, and again I had two children. Previous one
Speaker 3: was termed the next one was Kelly. As a matter
Speaker 3: of fact, that she was about four to five weeks
Speaker 3: early and only weighed four pounds. Everything with her seemed
Speaker 3: to be okay.
Speaker 2: She was just little.
Speaker 3: But Travis was a whole different story. He was born
Speaker 3: at twenty six weeks gestation and I was air ambulanced
Speaker 3: to the University of Minnesota Hospital in Minneapolis for him,
Speaker 3: where they did get labor stopped.
Speaker 2: However, I developed a.
Speaker 3: Fever and then they had to allow Travis to be
Speaker 3: born and he was born naturally and consequently suffered a
Speaker 3: brain bleed at the time, So right from the get
Speaker 3: go we knew this was not going to be your
Speaker 3: typical pregnancy and development.
Speaker 2: He was three.
Speaker 3: Months early, and he actually got out of the hospital
Speaker 3: on his due date, but he progressed slowly, and we
Speaker 3: were told that we could have a very seriously involved
Speaker 3: young man with all kinds of things, being wheelchair bound
Speaker 3: and all kinds of scary stuff that we weren't sure of.
Speaker 3: So as we brought him home, he was very small,
Speaker 3: but he came home at five pounds, and with an older.
Speaker 1: Travis is huge now, so it's hard to imagine him
Speaker 1: at five pounds.
Speaker 3: Yes, very hard to image him being that teeny tiny
Speaker 3: For those of you who can't visualize what at one
Speaker 3: pound fourteen ounce baby looks like.
Speaker 2: He fit on an eight and a half by eleven
Speaker 2: piece of paper. He fit on that.
Speaker 3: So anyway, I tried to do a lot of reading
Speaker 3: about what was expected with him. We knew that it
Speaker 3: would take a while for him to catch up. He
Speaker 3: had Kelly above, and then a year about approximate a
Speaker 3: year later, I had another baby, and he actually, even
Speaker 3: though he was a year younger, kind of developed at
Speaker 3: the same time on the same pattern as as his
Speaker 3: younger sister, Christie, and so it was easy to compare.
Speaker 3: He walked at about two when she walked at one.
Speaker 3: So some of the milestones that we had to look
Speaker 3: for we also had to develop as a baby. I
Speaker 3: had to put him through patterns of movement that brought
Speaker 3: the hands to the midline, you know, crunched him up,
Speaker 3: rolled him side to side I used to, and then
Speaker 3: once he got close to being able to walk, we
Speaker 3: noticed that he had that stretch reflex and he would
Speaker 3: always fall backwards and land, you know, flat on his back.
Speaker 3: So every time Travis had diaper change, we would take
Speaker 3: him and sit him down and stand him up and
Speaker 3: sit him down so that you know, would get him
Speaker 3: off balance and then sit him down so that he
Speaker 3: would learn to sit. And once he had mastered that,
Speaker 3: which he did, Travis walked And it was similar with
Speaker 3: all other kinds of milestones, like riding a bike. He
Speaker 3: was determined to ride a bike, but balance is not
Speaker 3: one of his strong suits because he was diagnosed with
Speaker 3: spastic diplegia. So he could walk, he could he walked
Speaker 3: on his toes. We had to get you know, the
Speaker 3: AFOs and all that kind of stuff. But he was
Speaker 3: determined to ride a bike. So put him on a
Speaker 3: bike and he learned how to ride a bike going
Speaker 3: down a hill in one of our yards where there
Speaker 3: was grass. But he kept up until he was determined
Speaker 3: to learn how to ride a bicycle, and he did.
Speaker 3: And right now as an adult, he has an e
Speaker 3: bike which he can ride or HiT's motorized and he
Speaker 3: can get to work on it. So because of his
Speaker 3: disabilities and you know, all the things he had going
Speaker 3: wrong with him. We never assumed that he wasn't going
Speaker 3: to be able to do anything. We worked on trying
Speaker 3: to help him do the things he needed to do.
Speaker 3: To that end, when we were in South Dakota, doctor Odo,
Speaker 3: it was hard to get the kind of interventions and
Speaker 3: cooperation among all of his speech therapists, occupational therapists, physical therapist,
Speaker 3: and doctor. His doctor first put him on Riddlin because
Speaker 3: he was so hyperactive. He was all over the place
Speaker 3: and that made him anxious and fearful. So they took
Speaker 3: him off that, and although Travis did not exhibit seizures,
Speaker 3: he was put on the medicine Integratol was what they
Speaker 3: found worked and that allowed him to settle in and
Speaker 3: improve on some other areas. But because he was disjointed,
Speaker 3: we had him admitted to Cripple Children's Hospital and School
Speaker 3: in Sioux Falls.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: It's the hardest thing I ever had to do, is
Speaker 3: to take my four year old little guy and put
Speaker 3: him in that facility and leave him there. And I
Speaker 3: could not visit him for three months. And I remember
Speaker 3: sitting in the parking lot looking and it's my heart
Speaker 3: coming out of my chest. Oh my god, Yeah, I
Speaker 3: can't see him for three weeks. He going to understand
Speaker 3: where's mom? You know, because he followed me around. When
Speaker 3: I stopped walking, he used to bump into.
Speaker 2: Me, so it's very hard to do that.
Speaker 3: But the one thing that did come out of that
Speaker 3: that was a benefit was that there was a coordinated effort.
Speaker 3: I think he had a team of twenty five people
Speaker 3: him from you know, start to finish, and they were
Speaker 3: able to find out how Travis learned, you know, what
Speaker 3: was going to make him be able to learn things.
Speaker 3: And they had a behavioral psychiatrist come from Minneapolis to
Speaker 3: watch him, and it was determined that was a lot
Speaker 3: of time before we knew all about Asberger's and all
Speaker 3: these other.
Speaker 2: Things, which I think got a little of that going
Speaker 2: on too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely that Travis did not learn from observation and
Speaker 3: seeing other things. He could not read other people's emotions.
Speaker 3: He could not gauge, you know, their level of irritation
Speaker 3: or anything else. And he said that we had to
Speaker 3: teach Travis behavior in this situation.
Speaker 2: This is what you do.
Speaker 3: These are the kinds of questions you could ask, you know,
Speaker 3: And that helped him navigate a little bit more so
Speaker 3: that he became a questions guy, and that's all he
Speaker 3: wanted to do was ask people questions. And he would
Speaker 3: perseverate on things that he knew the answer to, but
Speaker 3: wanted just to hear people say, what happens if I
Speaker 3: put my finger in the lights? You know the lights?
Speaker 3: He knew what would happen. What happened if I put
Speaker 3: my finger in the fan. He liked to see that
Speaker 3: big reaction.
Speaker 2: But you know, that's the way he learned.
Speaker 3: So he was only there from June of one year
Speaker 3: to like May of the next, and then we moved
Speaker 3: to Connecticut, but we had the foundation for him to
Speaker 3: enter kindergarten and get the services and the kind of approaches.
Speaker 2: That he needed.
Speaker 3: So that was, you know, from then on our mantra
Speaker 3: with four kids then and then now five was Travis
Speaker 3: had very special needs, but that didn't entitle him to
Speaker 3: special privileges. We made sure that he was treated just
Speaker 3: like any other child. He had things that he needed
Speaker 3: to do around the house. He my husband had him out.
Speaker 2: In the yard.
Speaker 3: Travis knows how to write, you know, a zero turn lawnmower.
Speaker 3: He knows how to operate a log splitter. You know,
Speaker 3: he can do all kinds of things and help and
Speaker 3: understand how to carry and move things, you know, just
Speaker 3: because you're special needs, you know, which is the term
Speaker 3: at the time, he didn't get excused from things.
Speaker 2: You know, he still had to pick up his stuff,
Speaker 2: put his stuff in the laundry.
Speaker 3: He knows how to do laundry. And now because of that,
Speaker 3: not putting him in a box and restricting what he
Speaker 3: was able to do, Travis lives independently. He has a
Speaker 3: job where he's you know, works almost full time, and
Speaker 3: he has he gets himself to working back either by
Speaker 3: writing public transportation or his e bike and from it.
Speaker 3: When we brought him home being told that we might
Speaker 3: have a wheelchair bound child that wasn't going to be
Speaker 3: able to do anything and require twenty four to seven care,
Speaker 3: you know, it's amazing. And by the way, he did
Speaker 3: potty trade. By the time he was three and a half,
Speaker 3: he was potty trade.
Speaker 2: So what can I say?
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, and I mean he is independent by all
Speaker 1: definitions of the word he is. I think probably part
Speaker 1: of the reason why he was so successful and why
Speaker 1: he was so persistent with things like learning how to
Speaker 1: ride the bike is he is also potentially one of
Speaker 1: the most stubborn individuals I've ever met. I mean, I
Speaker 1: adore him, but if he has his mindset on something,
Speaker 1: it's very difficult to convince him that what he thinks
Speaker 1: or what he wants is not the best option. You know,
Speaker 1: if he decides that he's you know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I want to buy this item, and somebody says, well,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe that item isn't really the best thing
Speaker 1: for you, he's still going to buy it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: He saves his money, you know, a little bit, not much.
Speaker 3: He tries to manage his budget. That's one of his
Speaker 3: biggest challenges is math and you know, numbers, and again,
Speaker 3: like you say, those he sees the latest gidget gadget,
Speaker 3: have that? Or one of his siblings gets the latest
Speaker 3: gidget gadget, he thinks he's got to have it too
Speaker 3: because they got a w why can't I have it?
Speaker 3: And yeah, that's that can be a problem. We had
Speaker 3: a I won't say a tough time, but it was
Speaker 3: eventually a successful argument about putting his bike away in
Speaker 3: the winter and not being able to ride it and
Speaker 3: using public transportation all the time, and even has workers
Speaker 3: that will come get him in snowstorms so that he
Speaker 3: doesn't have to try to get to the bus because
Speaker 3: again his balance isn't the best walking on ice. But
Speaker 3: that was that was a struggle for a while because
Speaker 3: he thought, you know, he doesn't want us to take
Speaker 3: his independence away. However, you know, getting him to understand
Speaker 3: that this is not about independence, it's about safety. And
Speaker 3: I think we've got that.
Speaker 1: No, it's I have noticed that bike has spent away
Speaker 1: until the weather gets gets I think the other challenge
Speaker 1: sometimes is he does not have good vision. It's that
Speaker 1: the left it's the left eye that's really bad. So
Speaker 1: sometimes when I see him driving around on his bike,
Speaker 1: I'm also holding my breath because I don't know how
Speaker 1: much he's seeing on his left hand side. And he's
Speaker 1: very good about wearing a vest, so he wears his
Speaker 1: bright vest so people, you know, don't miss him. But
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm like, wow that, I think that was a
Speaker 1: dangerous maneuver there.
Speaker 3: Yes, And we feel I feel the same way. I
Speaker 3: know he's on his bike. I'll call him on you know,
Speaker 3: weather days, and the other day when he had all
Speaker 3: those the rain storms earlier this.
Speaker 2: Week he used the bus.
Speaker 3: But you know, I guess in some ways it's similar
Speaker 3: to how we feel when our our you know, diverse
Speaker 3: not neurodiverse kids are driving all over the place, you know,
Speaker 3: we worry. And you know, he's changed his route. He
Speaker 3: was going through more of the busy traffic patterns to
Speaker 3: go to you know, a back road now to get
Speaker 3: to work, which I encouraged him to do because I
Speaker 3: wasn't happy with him going through some of those big
Speaker 3: intersections down by the shopping areas.
Speaker 2: So that is what it is. It's a worry.
Speaker 3: He has had one accident with it, but it was
Speaker 3: not his fault. Somebody opened a door and he went
Speaker 3: slamming into it. The person did not see him, and
Speaker 3: as a result, he did learn a lesson. It can
Speaker 3: happen that quick, Travis, and it doesn't have to be
Speaker 3: something you did.
Speaker 2: Look, this is what it is about driving, and this
Speaker 2: is why we worry.
Speaker 1: So yeah, unfortunately he was not seriously seriously injured. You know,
Speaker 1: he is the model of When I was a master's student,
Speaker 1: like a thousand years ago, one of the articles that
Speaker 1: we read was an article that was on the dignity
Speaker 1: of risk and I can't remember whether that was the
Speaker 1: exact title or not. I don't rememb who the author was,
Speaker 1: but the whole idea was that individuals who had disabilities
Speaker 1: needed to have opportunities to take certain risks in order
Speaker 1: to become as independent as possible. That might be, you know,
Speaker 1: cutting something with a sharp knife, or running a log splitter,
Speaker 1: or riding a bike. And if you don't allow folks
Speaker 1: the opportunity whether if it's appropriate for them to engage
Speaker 1: in those things, then they don't live up to their
Speaker 1: full potential. And I think the approach that you and
Speaker 1: your family took was that he was given chances and
Speaker 1: opportunities to try out some stuff that I'm sure lots
Speaker 1: of folks are holding their breath the first time you
Speaker 1: ran that log splitter. I'm holding my breath and I
Speaker 1: didn't even see the log splitter. And I'm sure he's
Speaker 1: phenomenal at it, and I know he's phenomenal at his job.
Speaker 1: And the kind of work that he does also comes
Speaker 1: with a certain amount of danger if you're not paying
Speaker 1: attention to what you're doing. But one of the good
Speaker 1: things about him is that when he's decided that he's
Speaker 1: bought into whatever the approach is, he will follow it
Speaker 1: to the exact level that you asked him to do.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 1: So if there's five steps and these are the five
Speaker 1: steps to run this machine at work, he will do
Speaker 1: those five steps. And if he sees somebody not doing
Speaker 1: those five steps and doing something unsafe, he is very
Speaker 1: in tune with that was a really bad idea and
Speaker 1: potentially rather vocal about it. I think as well, he
Speaker 1: should be the safety guy.
Speaker 2: He could be.
Speaker 3: You know that the risk taking is something that There
Speaker 3: are other areas that happened with him.
Speaker 2: One of them was in high school.
Speaker 3: There's some sports of course he couldn't do, but he
Speaker 3: did do cross country and track, and that was something
Speaker 3: he was able to run the full races, you know
Speaker 3: that he entered into and his first race in cross country,
Speaker 3: he took off so fast and because he's you know,
Speaker 3: he's top heavy, his little spindly legs wouldn't carry him.
Speaker 2: He fell flat in his face and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: Travis got up and he went and he finished. So
Speaker 2: you know, he that was a that was a.
Speaker 3: Risk for him, but he did it all three years, sophomore, junior,
Speaker 3: senior year. And then the other thing was is then
Speaker 3: when he's his first independent living in a group type
Speaker 3: of situation with a roommate, there were people taking supervising,
Speaker 3: Oh you can't, you can't cook, Travis, you can't know.
Speaker 3: We don't want you using the stove. And he's like, well,
Speaker 3: I can use the stove.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: He knew how to make mac and cheese. He knew
Speaker 3: how to fry himself an egg, make a grilled cheese.
Speaker 2: You know, he was a Paul that he they would
Speaker 2: weren't going to let him cook.
Speaker 3: So you know, there's there's stuff you know, yeah, you
Speaker 3: might burn yourself, you know, you just make sure you don't,
Speaker 3: you know, burn up the kitchen.
Speaker 2: But he never got close to anything like that.
Speaker 3: But again, those are the risks that you have to
Speaker 3: let him take in some ways so that they can
Speaker 3: they can.
Speaker 1: Be and and he and he has thrived with those
Speaker 1: things and he is he is. He's kind of built
Speaker 1: a bit like a try angle. That's part is definitely
Speaker 1: a lot. And he's got the he doesn't have those
Speaker 1: skinny little legs which he which he uses, I believe
Speaker 1: to his best advantage because he's a special olympian and
Speaker 1: he does powerlifting.
Speaker 2: He does.
Speaker 1: I was sure that that was it maybe the category.
Speaker 1: And he does the discuss.
Speaker 2: Well, he used he does the shot put.
Speaker 1: He just shot put. Okay, ye shot So he you know,
Speaker 1: he uses all of that upper body strength to his
Speaker 1: to his advantage. And he's very proud of himself when
Speaker 1: when he's gone to to the games and and come
Speaker 1: back with with metals, which he usually does. I believe
Speaker 1: he usually clears the field there, but he does. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's he's he's quite the quite the athlete. So, h
Speaker 1: You've shared quite a few things and and I'm kind
Speaker 1: of anticipating maybe what your answer is, but I'm going
Speaker 1: to ask you, what are you most proud of that
Speaker 1: he's that he's done, or that he has maybe the
Speaker 1: potential to be doing in the future.
Speaker 2: I think my husband and I talked about it.
Speaker 3: I think we're proud of the things that he's able
Speaker 3: to do independently.
Speaker 2: But the fact that this kid from where we, like
Speaker 2: I said, where he started.
Speaker 3: Lives independently, can take care of himself, and can hold
Speaker 3: down a job. That's very proud of the fact that
Speaker 3: he's able to do that. I mean, he's able to
Speaker 3: do all of those things. And I think of had
Speaker 3: we done things differently or tried to be too protective
Speaker 3: or like you say that not giving him the chance
Speaker 3: to try things that you know, could be a little whatever,
Speaker 3: that he's able to do those things. And he's a
Speaker 3: productive member of society. I mean, you know, he really is,
Speaker 3: and I think that's we're pretty proud of the accomplished
Speaker 3: you know, in that area. But he's he's been a
Speaker 3: big part of that, you know, because like you said,
Speaker 3: that attitude that I want to do that, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm going to that you know here. You know, he's
Speaker 3: he does need he does get some supervision in terms of,
Speaker 3: you know, like making sure he can get to his
Speaker 3: groceries and this and that, but he doesn't want anybody
Speaker 3: around all the time, even at work. He's got a
Speaker 3: job coach, and he really objects. He doesn't want to
Speaker 3: feel different. He doesn't want to stand out that way.
Speaker 3: He wants to just be Travis and not have somebody
Speaker 3: watching them all the time, you know. And we've you know,
Speaker 3: scaled back a little bit on the job coach, but
Speaker 3: he would just soon not have one because he doesn't
Speaker 3: know he needs one. But I told, you know, I'm
Speaker 3: just very grateful to the company for hiring him in
Speaker 3: the first place. And I think they found out that
Speaker 3: that wasn't a bad decision, especially when he they kept
Speaker 3: had to tell him to take breaks because he was
Speaker 3: just going to work the whole day and not even
Speaker 3: take one, maybe not even he.
Speaker 1: Was just going to go yeah, and he I mean,
Speaker 1: he works competitively. He is an employee of this factory,
Speaker 1: and he just he has somebody checking on him just
Speaker 1: a little bit. And I think there's been some changes.
Speaker 1: And I think that the person who's checking in on
Speaker 1: him is somebody that he's known for a long time,
Speaker 1: So it may be more of I get to visit
Speaker 1: with this person for a few minutes, as opposed to
Speaker 1: their checking up on me. I'd like this person, and
Speaker 1: you know, I like to show them how I'm doing well.
Speaker 3: One thing Travis, you know, is still working on is
Speaker 3: him being more aware of the feelings of other people.
Speaker 3: You know that the reason why they have a job, coach,
Speaker 3: is to protect the company.
Speaker 2: It's not all about you.
Speaker 3: They know that they might be able to leave you,
Speaker 3: but because this company has taken a chance on hiring somebody,
Speaker 3: you know, in a factory setting, they have to know
Speaker 3: somebody is going to come and, you know, make sure
Speaker 3: everything's okay. And maybe there's some sort of a state regulation.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but other people's you know, expectations and
Speaker 3: feelings about that, like me worrying about him on the
Speaker 3: ice and snow and you know, blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: You've got to under he has a hard time with that,
Speaker 3: and he still does, you know, understanding those kinds of
Speaker 3: feedback from people.
Speaker 2: He can't.
Speaker 3: He can't pick up on that all the time, you know,
Speaker 3: And then when you explain it to him, he's like,
Speaker 3: you know, like I didn't think of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he does, definitely. He does not put himself in
Speaker 1: the position all the other person and see it from
Speaker 1: from their side. So when you say that you're worried
Speaker 1: about something or you're you know, a little angry with
Speaker 1: him or frustrated or disappointed or whatever, it has to
Speaker 1: be explained very concretely, which is a good reason for
Speaker 1: there to be a job coach, because sometimes somebody has
Speaker 1: to run interference. Even though the people who he works
Speaker 1: for seem to really understand him, but he is he's
Speaker 1: he's a little persnickety, I guess. For he has his
Speaker 1: own ways of doing things, and sometimes that's fine, but
Speaker 1: other times he needs somebody to kind of help him
Speaker 1: do things in a different way, and he does not
Speaker 1: He does not read other people well at all.
Speaker 3: Well, that's one thing that we had to do in education.
Speaker 3: When he entered middle school, I requested a full meeting.
Speaker 3: I didn't want just special education administration. I wanted all
Speaker 3: the people that were going to deal with him in school.
Speaker 3: And we all sat at the same table and I said,
Speaker 3: this is Travis. I explained him, and I also explained
Speaker 3: my expectation. He communicates by asking questions. At that time,
Speaker 3: it was a question after question, answer a question. And
Speaker 3: I said, he will occupy all of your time. I said,
Speaker 3: if he comes in and you are busy, you have
Speaker 3: to tell him this is not a good time.
Speaker 2: This is not an appropriate time to ask all these questions.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't want to hurt his feelings, Like, no,
Speaker 3: you need to hurt his feelings, you know, but you
Speaker 3: do it the right way.
Speaker 2: It's going to hurt his feelings.
Speaker 3: Oh well, this is not an appropriate behavior, and you
Speaker 3: have to teach him that you are not to do
Speaker 3: this in your class or at this time or whatever.
Speaker 2: And explain it to him. But you have to do that.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. I got a little pushback from some people.
Speaker 3: I said, no, I won't. This is the way it
Speaker 3: has to be. And that had think helped get him
Speaker 3: through his high school. And because he would do that,
Speaker 3: he'd say, hi, hes miss so, and so you know,
Speaker 3: he'd want to talk about things, you know, and and
Speaker 3: he'd want to talk about things he'd talked to him
Speaker 3: about before, but it was not inappropriate.
Speaker 2: So yeah, dad's in here too, he agrees, and he'd
Speaker 2: go on, and you know, that was.
Speaker 3: One thing that educationally, I think more parents need to
Speaker 3: make people that these child, their children are going to
Speaker 3: be in contact.
Speaker 2: With, aware of what works, what doesn't work, and.
Speaker 3: Their expectation, you know that. You know, for me it
Speaker 3: was it was pretty easy. It's not maybe easy for
Speaker 3: other people. But I know Kelly with say she had
Speaker 3: to go to bed in all kinds of ways to
Speaker 3: make sure that people were doing what they said they
Speaker 3: were going to do. In his IEP, you know, meeting time,
Speaker 3: how much time he was actually getting access to people.
Speaker 3: So with Travis, for me is this is my expectation.
Speaker 3: You don't allow him to do that.
Speaker 1: So, you know, I think that's a I think a
Speaker 1: really important thing because we see people many times and
Speaker 1: I don't think that you had actually mentioned that you're
Speaker 1: also an educator. That we see folks let children who
Speaker 1: have you know, kids that are neurodiverse, kids that have
Speaker 1: other things kind of going on. We let them. People
Speaker 1: let them do things that they would never allow someone
Speaker 1: else to do. You know, I always use the example
Speaker 1: when I'm talking to folks, like, you know, the adorable
Speaker 1: child with down syndrome at two years old who's hugging
Speaker 1: the cashier at the grocery store. Everyone thinks that's so cute.
Speaker 1: But when that child is thirteen or thirty three and
Speaker 1: walks around the counter to hug the cashier at the
Speaker 1: grocery store, nobody's gonna think that's cute anymore. That's going
Speaker 1: to be like a big problem. So we really need
Speaker 1: to make sure that we are helping folks understand. And
Speaker 1: you have to start sometimes you have to start really early.
Speaker 1: You're starting working on skills that you want somebody to
Speaker 1: have as an adult, sometimes when they're still in elementary
Speaker 1: school and it seems premature, but it's going to take
Speaker 1: for them. It's going to take lots of practice and
Speaker 1: opportunities to get those skills well, very very quickly.
Speaker 3: One thing that we did have to teach Travis was
Speaker 3: that when he was in the bus or in school,
Speaker 3: the middle school on that you're going to run into
Speaker 3: people who are going to ask you to do things
Speaker 3: that you know you should not and you have to
Speaker 3: tell them I'm not doing that. And that happened a
Speaker 3: lot to him on the bus. You know, why don't
Speaker 3: you go kiss a girl? And we'd try to explain
Speaker 3: those kinds of things that those boundaries that you just describe,
Speaker 3: and he would tell people, if you want to kiss her,
Speaker 3: kiss you go kiss yourself. So we gave him aage
Speaker 3: and everything else. But those things happened to him in
Speaker 3: high school with kids would be gone to do things
Speaker 3: and he was able to stand on his own and
Speaker 3: say I'm not doing that. So, you know, are the
Speaker 3: other things people have to prepare for, Like you say,
Speaker 3: you got to teach him get him ready for what happened.
Speaker 1: So I think, you know, he does have a strong
Speaker 1: sense of right and wrong, which is very helpful. You
Speaker 1: know that if somebody did ask him to do something
Speaker 1: that wasn't wasn't you know, a good thing to do,
Speaker 1: or maybe was even an illegal thing to do, He's
Speaker 1: not going to be part of it. He's going to
Speaker 1: say no, which is you know, incredibly valuable, especially as
Speaker 1: he's outliving independently. So how do you encourage him to
Speaker 1: take pride in what he's doing or to you know,
Speaker 1: give himself some credit for things or does he do
Speaker 1: that already?
Speaker 2: He does that pretty much himself.
Speaker 3: He you know, like with his medals and this and that,
Speaker 3: I did this, and he'll call.
Speaker 2: His sisters and I did this many pieces.
Speaker 3: We had to get two thousand, and I got them
Speaker 3: all done today, and you know, we celebrate those things
Speaker 3: with him. Well, geez drad, that's great. Or when we
Speaker 3: go to special Olympics, it's go.
Speaker 2: His nickname is Hutah, yeah, Utah who you know those.
Speaker 3: But we go.
Speaker 2: We support him by.
Speaker 3: Being there for his activities too, you know, watching the Bowl,
Speaker 3: watching powerlifting. We go as much as we can, so,
Speaker 3: you know, and when he calls and tells us something,
Speaker 3: we listen and we you know, praise him when we
Speaker 3: need to and help him navigate if that's what he's
Speaker 3: looking for. So, you know, just being a part of
Speaker 3: what he does, he's he's he might be forty whatever
Speaker 3: he is, but in a lot of ways, that's not
Speaker 3: where he is in terms of you know, accomplishments, and
Speaker 3: so we were we meet him there where he's at.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and I mean he's very accomplished in many
Speaker 1: ways and ways that other people couldn't be. I know
Speaker 1: that I could not go work in that factory and
Speaker 1: produce at the level that that he does. So, you know,
Speaker 1: I think he's one He's one of the few individuals, honestly,
Speaker 1: that I've met over the course of my time in
Speaker 1: the field that I feel incredibly confident, you know, confident
Speaker 1: actually that he's okay, like he's got this. You know,
Speaker 1: he's independent, he will be okay, he will he will
Speaker 1: negotiate the supports that he needs. I suspect that one
Speaker 1: of his sisters will probably become somebody who tries to
Speaker 1: offer some of the guidance as you know, as time
Speaker 1: goes on. Because the unfortunate thing is is usually parents
Speaker 1: don't out for the most part, parents usually don't outlive
Speaker 1: their children. So I suspect that you have a have,
Speaker 1: you know, have a plannery of you know, which which
Speaker 1: one of the sisters is going to step in and
Speaker 1: which one it is that he's going to listen to
Speaker 1: probably when he really needs to, because I know you're
Speaker 1: usually the person who has to kind of go mail trap.
Speaker 1: That's not going to work that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, but well, Mary, I am so grateful for you
Speaker 1: spending some time with us and you know, giving us
Speaker 1: a little flavor of Travis. I I've contemplated bringing him
Speaker 1: on the podcast. I know that he would be more
Speaker 1: than happy to talk for thirty minutes about himself. I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to figure out how I'll get questions in
Speaker 1: there somehow and not and not cut him off. He'll
Speaker 1: probably bring a video of his work so that everyone
Speaker 1: could see what he's doing. Yeah, but you know, I
Speaker 1: may I may invite him in the future. I think
Speaker 1: it would be good for him to come and share
Speaker 1: share the story from his side as well. Since we
Speaker 1: got we got a little we got a little story
Speaker 1: from Kelly about him getting bullied at school and her
Speaker 1: wanting to stick up for him, and then you know,
Speaker 1: we've certainly got a lot more from you. Yeah.
Speaker 3: She was a big advocate, you know, I remember it
Speaker 3: was at the lunch table.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was good that advocacy paid off because
Speaker 1: she needed it to support her son. So, you know,
Speaker 1: you just never know when you're gonna need some of
Speaker 1: the skills that we've learned, you know, as as children
Speaker 1: and as you so but thank you so much for
Speaker 1: spending time with us, and hopefully we will. We'll catch
Speaker 1: up with Travis at some point in the future maybe
Speaker 1: and I can talk to him about coming and doing this.
Speaker 1: Maybe he'll listen to yours and see what he thinks.
Speaker 2: So okay, all right, well.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, my pleasure, Thank you for listening
Speaker 1: to universally you neque exploring the neurodiverse world of the extraordinary.
Speaker 1: Join me doctor Lorie on Transformation Talk Radio every second
Speaker 1: and fourth Monday at eleven thirty Pacific time, as we
Speaker 1: continue to explore navigating the world not designed for diversity,
Speaker 1: for advocacy and support for individuals with disabilities. Let's connect.
Speaker 1: Learn more about consulting and life coaching at NOO Holisticconsulting
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