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Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekingana Show.

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I'm here with j Neil Janiel right, Jay, Jay's okay,

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you can call me Josh, Josh, Josh Neil.

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Speaker 2: What's going on, Josh, Oh, it's going well, it's it's

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a great pleasure to be speaking to you. I have

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to say shout out to my friend Jefferson Lee. H

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he put me on to you because you have this

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great series with Thomas seven seven on like all these

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historical things, and it's just a it's a real it's

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a real public service you two guys do, so kudos

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to you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, and then tomorrow starts the balk the nineteen

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nineties Balkan Wars.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, tell everybody a little bit about yourself.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, so, as I said before, I host or

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co host Jefferson Lee Show with my friend Jefferson Lee,

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who's also in this. I write. I have a substack

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Jneil dot substack. I've branded it as Psychopolitics and it's

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mostly essays on psychology and politics, and there's an accompanying

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YouTube channel. My first book with Imperium Press is called

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American Extremist. The Psychology of Political extremism, and I actually

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got a new one coming out with them in a

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few weeks called Understanding Conspiracy Theories. But yeah, for people

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who don't know me, I've been i would say, in

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the radical righte with my name and face out there

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since twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen. I made the switch. I think,

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like for a lot of people I know, we were

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hardcore Trumpists, like very libertarian, but like on that cusp

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of well what used to be called the liberty, like

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the libertarian to a right pipeline. And so I was

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one of those guys. And when when the Seria strikes happened,

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that's when I started to look away from Trump and

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start looking to other things. And then in twenty seventeen,

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obviously that was the ault right. So for people who

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don't know me, that's my background.

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Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about American extremists.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so a little bit of a personal story. I

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was in twenty nineteen. I was involved with some people

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that your audience may be familiar with, people like Richard Spencer,

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so on and so forth, Augustas and Victis. At the time,

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he was running for office at presidential office and remember yeah, yeah,

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and it was wild, great guy, terrible what happened to him?

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He's out, obviously, and so he's back to streaming, you know,

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to your audience, showing your love and affection. He's a

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great guy. But I got docked as a result of

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getting involved with a lot of those people. And I

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had already I came into the alt right because I

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have a background in psychology, maybe you guessed from the

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title of the book, and I went you know, I

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didn't go to the doctoral direction because the kinds of

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questions I was interested in were more political and philosophical

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than like strictly speaking about mental health or whatever social

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science research I guess on today. So I was already

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working on some stuff observations I had over the years.

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But it was really like getting into the radical right

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was like having the veil pulled away from your eyes

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entirely so, and then getting docked as a result of

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that kind of made me have to confront some kind

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of realities. Like when I got into it, I was like, oh, well, Nazis,

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that's not a real thing. That's just like a libtard fantasy.

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And you know, by and large it's not you know,

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it's not like there's a well organized, politically active machine

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that has political, cultural material resources, things like that. Obviously

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that's not happening, but none the less, there are people

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who espouse those views, and they range from totally harmless, tepid,

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you know, contributing members of society who just want the

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trains to run on time, and on the other end

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are actual degenerates, people you wouldn't want to associate yourself with.

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The reality I think, as most people probably know, is

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that really is an extreme, heavily ostracized minority, not just

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by polite society, but even in these kinds of circles.

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You know, I do think we do a really good

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job of self policing, maybe to our detriment, because obviously

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the left doesn't do that at all. They just set

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their freaks loose. So when I came out of that,

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I felt like I had some unique things to say

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about what was wrong with American politics, left right and center,

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and so I kind of wrote the book imagining I'm

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holding someone's hand through a red pill process a very

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you know, not like cutesy memes and gifts like this

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is a little bit more. You're gonna have to take

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some breaks, you have to go back to the corner

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and have them you know, fucking whatever those things in

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boxing that they put when you get when you start

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developing the mouses, they put that huge fucking like think

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or compress on your head like this is a red

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pill like that, but you'll need the compress and everything.

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So it starts off talking about media control, myth, the

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mythological narrativizing as the framework people should be thinking about

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rather than like ideology or so on and so forth.

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And so I carry people through this, you know, here's

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what's you know, here's what myth is. Here's like how

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this kind of psychological framework is influencing your decision making,

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so on and so forth. And I give actual lots

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of citations to that. And then obviously going of the media.

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You know, this is because the basic thesis of the

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book is it's not an original idea. I just really

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kind of beat the hell out of it over the

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course of the book. Is that the liberal establishment is

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genuinely where political violence originates from. Whether it's you know,

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forced integration by gun by military, whether it's Antifa in

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the streets, which is not so much a thing right now,

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whether it's journalists going after you wait, oh, yes, right,

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just yeah, I don't want to speak too soon. Knock

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on wood. So getting people to think, which is very

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easy if you're talking to conservatives, because they already hate

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the government, and they hated the government for like one

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hundred and fifty three hundred years. The Americans have just

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always hated the government, and so it's very easy to

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be like, well, here's here's this persecutory framework, but you

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have to adjust some of the variables because obviously Connink

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runs on his own persecutory framework and it's false, as

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we all know. So that's the basic thesis, and then

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I try to explain how that is. And in some

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cases it's talking about literally I was writing this during

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twenty twenty, so every week i'm like kind of pseudo

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like like almost like a historian of it, like an

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ancient Roman historian, like there were this many black people

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on the street this day, and they busted this many

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heads or whatever. So it's half like okay, philosophical analysis,

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but also half like detailing the actual political violence that

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was happening at that time. I actually think it made

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it even more impactful because it's like here's theoretical stuff,

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here's some nice size sources and citations. And then also,

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here's the video of a black guy stomping on someone's

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head until they're bleeding all over the place. Obviously that's

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not what's in the book. And then taking these people,

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you know, well, here's what's wrong with the left wing

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in America, here's what's wrong with the centrism, liberalism it

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kind of informally, and then what's wrong with the right,

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And a lot of it relies very heavily on kind

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of classical psychoanalytic theories, but it's not all psychoanalysis, and

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as Mike likes to say, the book does take Freud

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back for the right. So I mean, if you have

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if you're allergic to or sensitive to Freud, and obviously

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I understand why people would be. It's very much like

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a different spin on kind of a familiar story.

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Speaker 1: One of these days, you've got to come back and

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do an episode just on narrative building, because I mean,

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that's where everything is. And anybody who doesn't realize that

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after the last four years is just not paying attention.

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They're in their ideological box and they're you know, playing

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playing with is them and their friends playing by themselves.

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You know, it's just you and stepped out to look

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around and see exactly what's happening out here. But one

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of the things that I really been looking at lately

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is individualism. And I think it's hard to miss that

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this was. Individualism was a big part of the founding

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of this country. You can see it in the founding documents.

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People will argue that, sure, you know there was individual

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people talked about individual rights, but there was collectives and everything.

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Well sure, okay, yeah, there were collectives and everything, but

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everything always moves left, it seems, so you you sort

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of knew that it wasn't going to last anyone who

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you could look at you you know things, things don't

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get better until they get really, really, really really bad.

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And so there's a section in the book where you

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talk about is after the narrative, part about the narrative,

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it where it's individualism, anarchism, and I think sociopathy. So

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can we get a little bit into you know, like

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what you see as when it comes to individualism, is

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that what you see is that is that what you

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see this society and this culture being all about.

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Speaker 2: Yes and no pros and cons on both sides of

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that equation. I mean, Kevin McDonald obviously famously has written

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about this. I think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that

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the Western tradition is the tradition of the individual. However,

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in the same way, to be a liberal in the

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eighteenth century meant something different than to be a liberal today.

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To be an individual in the eighteenth century meant something

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different than it does today. I read a lot. I've

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been reading a lot of San Francis and James Burnham lately,

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and you know, one of the things that San Francis emphasizes, Sorry,

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I just lost my train of thought is that.

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Speaker 1: In eighteenth century liberalism is different than liberalism today.

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Speaker 2: And then being an individual okay, thank you. So he

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talks about like, for instance, great safe, very good job.

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You know, he talks about okay, you know, there's these

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different types of liberals, and if you were a liberal

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in the eighteenth century, actually, you know, fundamentally, what's distinguishing

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it from today's liberal is all of these restraints and

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considerations and obligations and duties and belongingness and embeddedness. That

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is the background of all this cool, sexy enlightenment liberal

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stuff that we started doing over the last couple hundred years.

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There was a story in the news not so long ago,

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maybe a couple of years ago, someone was trying to

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get Immanuel count canceled because they found his like private

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correspondences where he just talks about racism and hating women

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and stuff like that. And it's like, none of these

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people it was just a foregone conclusion that that that

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whatever they theorized was occurring in a homogeneous European Christian context.

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So same thing with being an individual. You still had

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responsibilities and obligations and duties and and and other things.

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Your individualism was still curtailed by larger social forces, the church,

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the different political organizations, so and so forth at that time,

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and so you still had to fit in society. But

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today it's really the opposite. Society is now increasingly bending

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to accommodate the most extreme individual people who can collectivize

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and then create this political edifice that that makes the

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rest of us conform to them. Where I work, you know,

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I had to accommodate a gender, non whatever kind of person,

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and you know that's their individualism kind of like having

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this warping effect on the social fields around them. Like, well,

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suddenly the rest of us are caught in your madness,

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And that's just part of the equation you said before

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you kind of like hinted at the moldbug line about

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you know, Cthulhu always swimming left. I think that's obviously

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because technology has this corrosive effect on social norms and

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morera's the ultimate consequence or outcome of which is this

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kind of radical liberation from all this social embeddedness going on.

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So today, to be an individual is I mean, I'm

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not the first person to say this. Your audience hopefully

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very well understands this. To be an individual today is

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unlike any probably any kind of person that has ever

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existed in human history. To the point I remember I

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for a short spell, I was a teacher, the university teacher,

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and I remember telling my students like ten years ago,

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like because the hot question I would always get day one,

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like intro psychology classes, like okay, professor deets, what's up

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with all these trans folks?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: And then like I'm trying to go through the like

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syllabus and they're like can you make sense of this?

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To me? Like all right, hold on, but like to

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go through that conversation with them and be like, well,

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guess that's not even weird, Like just wait seven years

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and you're going to have people like with prosthetics and

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you're gonna have to start calling them what they want

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or just the the the the the, if you want

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to say. The continuing like revolutionary spirit of this is

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just going to keep bringing new manifestations of this. So

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with regards to the title of that section, Individualism and Sociopathy,

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the argument I make said, effectively, to be like an entrepreneur,

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you know, the Fu Coodian self entrepreneur, to be this

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neoliberal person, to be an American you know extensive air quotes,

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is to be this radically self constructed person with like

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no predecessor, no context, no pretext. It's solipsism. I mean,

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it's every nasty word you've ever heard in a philosophy class,

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but ultimately it's pathological.

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Speaker 1: Do you see that as like, particularly a post World

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War two phenomenon where you really start seeing things this

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it all start breaking apart as far as a real

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change and what it means to be an individual.

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Speaker 2: Yes, although the seeds of that were very clearly starting

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to show in the fifty sixty years prior to that. So,

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you know, the progressive tradition in the United States at

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the turn of the twentieth century was a Nazi progressive vision.

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To put it indelicately, I mean everything that the Third

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Reich did, not everything, but the things that we mostly

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remember them for, the economic policies and the kind of

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extreme technocratic interest on social policies. That's those are Anglo inventions.

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That's Atlanticist philosophy. Turn of the twentieth century. American and

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Englishmen are looking out at the world and they're seeing

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what we've come to inherit and they're like, oh my god,

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what what the hell do we do about all this?

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And I think there was some kind of attempt to

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shepherd in a new vision of the individual that could,

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you know, protect the white race, to protect white people,

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to protect America, to protect England, the British Isles, to

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protect political sovereignty in European nations, so on, to protect

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the Constitution. I mean, these these things are all synonymous, really,

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It's not like they're separate things. If you want to

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protect the Constitution, if you want to say of America,

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if you want to do the North I almost had

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Norman Rockwell, if you to the George Lincoln Rockwell thing, Well,

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it's all the same thing. But uh yeah, So as

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far as that post war aspect of that, I look

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at the post war order, and this is an argument

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I'm making my upcoming book. There was a slur that

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was very common at that time used by effectively the

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radical right whenever they would talk about the liberal consensus,

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you know, they would talk about, well, that's that's what

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they would call them. It was this consensus view, and

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it had a kind of derogatory uh kind of like

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proto libtard, like if you were the consensus, your your

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you were brainwashed, you were just spouting kind of like

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this new fangled liberal social ideology that had no popularity

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really or history prior to the Second World War. So

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this consensus was the meeting of you know, the dying

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Atlantis sist Empire and this surge of European migration into

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the West, of a very particular type of European from Russia,

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maybe the Pale somewhere over there, and they met in

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the middle. The West had to be saved. We you know,

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the whole European experiment, like twentieth century is like this

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great tragedy of us, just like figuring out new ways

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to just roast each other, and by the middle of

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the twentieth century, how many of us are left, not

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a lot of the good ones. So it's this waning

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Western empire that's bringing in a lot of this well

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as we know now ex Bolshevist you know, or descended

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from Bolshevist types who came in wanted to find a

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place in America, and they found flattering ways to reinforce

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the waning American liberal ideology in a way that made

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sense post you know, San Francis to speak, to invoke

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him one more time, post this managerial revolution, this mass

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managerial revolution. So you know, there's a lot of ideas

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and concepts that emerged at that time that are not

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necessarily related. Maybe if you tried to do a genealogy

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and try to connect these things, like Glenn Beck on

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Fox News with his whiteboard, maybe you couldn't do that.

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But nonetheless they're all talking about the same goal. I

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invoked Fuko before the Entrepreneur of the Self, his idea

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of neoliberalism. This is the new American economic policy post

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World War Two, which the major emphasis of which was

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about this internal kind of psychic development that was supposed

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to be this you know, essential to unlocking this American

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economic engine to fulfilling you know, the old American idea,

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but in a new way, uh, in this new technocratic society.

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And so my inherited wisdom. You know, I'm a little

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bit younger than you. I'm still in my thirties. I

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had my birthday earlier this week. The things I was

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told growing up, that we're good pieces of advice, follow

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your dreams, do it makes you happy. This is like

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the head smashed in, you know, inherited version of of

316
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like the Fucodian ideas, like you can liberate yourself and

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you can be anything that you want, and all of

318
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this is like a radical political act, but it's also

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00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:30,160
American and bubblah. So I think it's specifically and obviously

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the purpose of this consensus being, you know, how do

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00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:39,079
we manage the existing populations while we get this new

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migratory program in place. So I feel like that individualism

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not to get like crazy tinfoil hat is not like

324
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an intentional thing that was done, like we're going to

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ameliorate or we're gonna anesthetize people while we start moving

326
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infinity Africans around. I think it was kind of a

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natural development, but the consequences obviously for us have been terrible.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of like we've become we're like these radical

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surfs or these radical annuities, walking annuities. Basically, what they

330
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wanted was a transactional society, and it basically turned us

331
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into transactional beings. And yeah, nasally, that's part of the

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individuality of it is what what are you contributing to commerce?

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It's what the military is now. I mean, if you

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go to the Navy's website, it will say that they

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are there to protect the you know, the sea lanes

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for commerce in the world, you know, so that it

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can move. And yeah, so I was thinking you were

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One of the things that you had mentioned was how

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even with the individualism of the old, of the previous

340
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to what we're dealing with now, when you had church,

341
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when you had family structure, when you had a lot

342
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of things to keep you grounded, to keep you as

343
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part of a tight knit I think our our reno

344
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return to the strong gods something like that. Yeah, and

345
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that's that's what That's what I was thinking the whole time,

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was the goal of crushing you know, like the Italian

347
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American society and mutual aid societies, churches, and the family

348
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is to turn everybody into this radical kind of monetary instrument.

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Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, I well, some things to keep in mind

350
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as you're talking. I've always got the eternal like devil

351
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angel on one side or the other. I'm a terrible contrarian.

352
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,480
So as you're talking, I was starting to do a bit,

353
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a bit of a like a hey man, and that's

354
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not really fair, right, because I was starting to think, well,

355
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transaction has always been part of society. You know, the

356
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internal critic who's like watching us and thinking they're full

357
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of shit. I'm trying to answer them as I'm listening

358
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,480
to you, like, there's always been an economic component of society.

359
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,920
So fundamentally, how is this different, right, Because that's probably

360
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what someone who's listening to you and disagrees with you

361
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and me might say, And it's the fundamentally, it's a

362
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qualitative difference more than anything else. One of the things

363
00:23:29,759 --> 00:23:31,720
I was thinking of that I think is a really

364
00:23:31,759 --> 00:23:33,839
good example of what you're talking about, a contempt a

365
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modern phenomenon is exactly how the red pill manosphere or

366
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community has ended up like this year, where if you

367
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,799
listen to or read people in these communities talk about specifically,

368
00:23:47,799 --> 00:23:50,359
men talk about, you know, why they fail with women,

369
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or why feminism sucks, or why the world has given

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00:23:53,519 --> 00:23:56,240
them a raw deal, so on and so forth. Is

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00:23:56,279 --> 00:23:59,599
they start talking about, like they roll out their laundry

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list of things that they expect the woman to bring,

373
00:24:02,839 --> 00:24:05,759
because it's a it's a tit for tat, you know,

374
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,880
I want to solve the free loader problem. You know,

375
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,480
all of these things where well she doesn't you know,

376
00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:13,799
if she doesn't cook and do this and that and

377
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,559
have one hundred and seventy thousand dollars or four one

378
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,400
k and blah blah blah blah. It's like, for one thing,

379
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,960
it's very feminine because like the whole transactional thing was

380
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,160
like trying to solve the native sexual inequalities between men

381
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,079
and women and trying to solve like all of these

382
00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:38,680
complex social problems fertility, pair bonding, alleviating tribal conflicts, ameliorating

383
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:43,200
tribal conflicts, so on and so forth, and so on

384
00:24:43,599 --> 00:24:46,599
the one hand, you know, qualitatively has it different as

385
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,759
part of this inversion, the wrong people or have become

386
00:24:50,759 --> 00:24:53,200
the being counters. Being counting is kind of a womanly thing,

387
00:24:53,319 --> 00:24:55,119
and I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, like

388
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,359
you know they mind the domestic life. You know, they're

389
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,720
very fastidious details in that manner. They make up eighty

390
00:25:02,759 --> 00:25:08,599
percent of automestic spending, like that's their domain. That's a

391
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,240
qualitative difference. But now that it's also I was going

392
00:25:12,319 --> 00:25:16,519
to say this before, it's also much more egotistical, and

393
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,079
we might as well say egotistical pejoratively egotism. I mean

394
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,039
we might as well say when I really, when I

395
00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:25,200
talk about individualism in the book, it's probably better to

396
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:33,720
say egotism and extreme radical egotism, which is all about, well,

397
00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:37,000
ultimately like you're not really interfacing with direct reality because

398
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,559
you're interfacing first with this buffer of your own self

399
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:46,640
aggrandizing bullshit, which the contemporary version of individualism is just

400
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:50,119
like constantly throwing It's like a guy just always throwing

401
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,559
gasoline on the fire so you can come up with

402
00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:56,200
ever more insane cope, like this guy Will Stancil on Twitter.

403
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,160
I don't know if you've been watching him. It's like

404
00:25:58,559 --> 00:26:00,920
it's like we're going on a full business week of

405
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,680
this and all you're watching is just egotism.

406
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:11,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it's remarkable. Well, let's let's talk about this.

407
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,640
Because we can talk about individualism, we can talk about anarchism,

408
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:20,240
but what it crosses over and in your personal life,

409
00:26:20,319 --> 00:26:25,240
I mean, that can cause enough problems, especially relationship wise

410
00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:29,880
with your family. But let's cross over into the political. Now,

411
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,240
when that crosses over into the political, where do we

412
00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:36,960
end up? What's the path down that road?

413
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:43,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, anarchism is one, you know, expressly political manifestation.

414
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,759
I have a very small I would say, like maybe

415
00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:52,960
sub ten percent sympathy for anarchism, but it's not morally

416
00:26:53,039 --> 00:26:55,680
related to what you typically see from anarchists. I mean,

417
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,400
most people I think have a It's why we like vigilantes,

418
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,759
the punisher, the batman, because innately, we all, especially as conservatives,

419
00:27:03,799 --> 00:27:08,079
I think, have a distrust of society. We have a

420
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,599
distrust of large groups. We have distrust of things that

421
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,720
we can't see, smell, taste, touch, hold a cant accountable,

422
00:27:13,799 --> 00:27:17,000
so on and so forth, for better or for worse,

423
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,400
and gosh, I don't know where my brain is today.

424
00:27:21,519 --> 00:27:24,440
But anyway, So the point about anarchism, right, so it's

425
00:27:24,519 --> 00:27:26,359
it's a little tougher for conservatives, or maybe it's a

426
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,400
little easier for conservatives. That's what I was getting at.

427
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,240
But nonetheless, like political anarchism, it's it's distinct from individualism,

428
00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:37,559
and that I think it is more specifically about kind

429
00:27:37,599 --> 00:27:43,720
of you know, the Ed Dutton mutational loads, spiteful, mutant, sexual,

430
00:27:43,759 --> 00:27:47,680
deviant situation. Like at bottom, it seems to me that

431
00:27:48,599 --> 00:27:54,319
anarchism politically is just about protection of I don't know

432
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,079
what words I can use on your show. I don't

433
00:27:57,079 --> 00:28:00,400
care the common pizza types. Right, So it's like it's

434
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,000
effectively like a political organization for pedophiles. I don't think

435
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,920
there's anything more meaningful to anarchism about that. But then

436
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,039
again again it's like, well, how do you even have

437
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,799
like a political block of pedophiles be party participating in

438
00:28:12,839 --> 00:28:15,640
your democratic society. Well, I think that you have this

439
00:28:15,839 --> 00:28:24,079
continual radical liberation. I don't know if individualism is related

440
00:28:24,079 --> 00:28:28,359
to this, but certainly the criminal as being elevated, you know,

441
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,000
into a higher moral position than you know, people who

442
00:28:32,079 --> 00:28:34,519
enforced the law or people who simply follow the law

443
00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:37,359
might not be related to individualism per se, but it's

444
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,400
you know, this cascading decay of American society.

445
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: Well, it's a it's a tool I mean, if we're

446
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,319
going to talk about Sam Francis, we can talk about

447
00:28:44,359 --> 00:28:47,839
a narco tyranny. And I know a lot of I

448
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,400
know a lot of anarchists, especially a narco capitalists, who

449
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,079
absolutely hate that term because you know, it seeks to

450
00:28:54,319 --> 00:28:59,119
you know, it makes anarchy look bad. And historically it's

451
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,039
let's talk about the Spanish Civil War. I could do

452
00:29:01,079 --> 00:29:04,920
that for ten to twelve hours. Okay. When I think

453
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,960
of anarchism, I think of the Spanish Civil War, digging it,

454
00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:12,960
disint turning nuns and priests. But when you look at

455
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:19,960
a society where basically the people in charge are off

456
00:29:20,039 --> 00:29:23,319
doing whatever they're doing, like you were just mentioning, but

457
00:29:23,359 --> 00:29:27,480
they're allowing they can only get away with that, doing

458
00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:32,079
what they're doing by unleashing the worst dregs of society

459
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,640
upon the good people and telling the good people they

460
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,880
can't protect themselves from the dregs of society. And then

461
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,920
if the drugs of society do something really horrible, they

462
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,240
don't even just like this cop that just these cops

463
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,319
that got jumped in New York a couple of days ago,

464
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,920
and they were the people who did it. Migrants illegals

465
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,079
were released on wind, noobail. It's all a tool, and

466
00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:02,400
it's anarchy for some and not for others, and definitely

467
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,400
not the kind of anarchy that anarcho capital, a narcho

468
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:06,839
capitalist one, at least most of them.

469
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a certain like just base conformism that we

470
00:30:13,079 --> 00:30:17,119
all have as like human people with souls that these

471
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,680
people don't like. I mean that kind of Look. I

472
00:30:20,759 --> 00:30:23,359
went through an edged lord atheist phase, you know. I

473
00:30:23,359 --> 00:30:26,000
mean I never spit on priests or did anything really terrible,

474
00:30:26,039 --> 00:30:29,480
but you know, I probably said some untoward things towards

475
00:30:29,519 --> 00:30:33,119
our Lord. But like that degree, like we're going to

476
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:38,039
dig up nuns, We're going to you know, desecrate graves,

477
00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:42,640
We're going to just try to innovate new ways to

478
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,599
spit on the normal social institutions around us. That's really

479
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,599
what anarchism tends to be a lot of times. It's

480
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,319
it's that like lack of conformism, like that thoughtless conformism.

481
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,279
I just go to church because it's because it's there,

482
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:01,480
and I just love Jesus because that's what I do.

483
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,519
Right like this, you're not even contemplating on it. But

484
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,000
as far as like individualism and like what are the

485
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:13,680
political consequences of that well, I think by and large,

486
00:31:14,039 --> 00:31:19,440
I think the two biggest outcomes are depoliticization, right, because

487
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,119
what if you're an egotist. The kind of persuasive filter

488
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,480
that ultimately matters is like, oh, does this titillate me,

489
00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:29,680
does this interest me? Does this speak to me? Does

490
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,400
this have an immediate application to my my life world

491
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,440
as I perceive it? Whereas like, really political action is

492
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,400
is like extroverted. It's about looking at other people, looking

493
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,519
at the problems of other people in society. It's fundamentally,

494
00:31:44,559 --> 00:31:48,480
I mean, real politics is extraversion. I don't want I

495
00:31:48,519 --> 00:31:50,759
don't want to use psychiatric language and abuse it that way.

496
00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:52,599
You know what I mean, You're not in an agreement.

497
00:31:54,599 --> 00:31:58,720
So on one hand it's it's depoliticization, and then obviously

498
00:31:58,839 --> 00:32:02,519
on the other hand, it's like it's extreme, well not

499
00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:06,200
just identity politics you could say would be part of it,

500
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,680
maybe counterintuitively, but also like single issue voting, like all

501
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,599
this wacky stuff like I only care about voting laws

502
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:20,400
or whatever. I mean, as opposed to like nationalist folkish politics,

503
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,400
where it's like, well, everything is a political question, everything

504
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,599
has to be addressed politically, and we're going to have

505
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,799
a vehicle to put people in those places to do that, right,

506
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,960
like the individuals who are part of the collective and

507
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,640
see them as selves as such and then can function

508
00:32:35,759 --> 00:32:39,119
as individuals in service of the collective. You know, that's

509
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,640
like again part of maybe that's why it's better to

510
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,640
say egotism, because ultimately being an individual is a good thing.

511
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:51,799
It's who we are, it's our tradition. We couldn't really

512
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,519
abandon it if we tried, and so fundamentally, what's different

513
00:32:55,599 --> 00:33:03,319
is this profoundly psychological dimension to modern life. You have

514
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:10,240
to have justifications for everything. You know, everything's personalized. You're

515
00:33:10,319 --> 00:33:12,960
encouraged to make everything your self, and that for a

516
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,279
lot of people that means they're politics too, which is

517
00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:16,119
not always a good thing.

518
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: I still engage with libertarians online. I know, I'm a masochist,

519
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,559
and you know, one the other day was like, oh,

520
00:33:26,599 --> 00:33:29,160
so you know, what's a bigger what's a bigger issue

521
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,839
than economics? And you know, one of my friends posted up,

522
00:33:33,559 --> 00:33:36,759
you know, drag queens from Viimar and drag queens now

523
00:33:37,519 --> 00:33:40,279
and he's like, oh, oh, I'm scared of the Oh

524
00:33:40,319 --> 00:33:42,200
I'm supposed to be scared of the men dressing up

525
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,039
like women. And that's just that's exactly what it is.

526
00:33:46,079 --> 00:33:48,720
It's the meme of Rome falling, and you know the

527
00:33:48,759 --> 00:33:50,960
guy saying, oh, how does this affect me personally?

528
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,599
Speaker 2: But it does. It perfects you profoundly personally. I have

529
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,799
a working theory. It's not I'm not totally Maybe I

530
00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:02,400
shouldn't bring it to you, but I'll do it anyway.

531
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:06,640
It has a lot to do with the explicitly property

532
00:34:06,839 --> 00:34:13,480
focused tradition in I think the Western economic auvoir. If

533
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,199
you want to say this is you know, people like

534
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,719
me who came up six seven years ago when like

535
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,960
the nas bole thing was popular. And the reason why

536
00:34:24,039 --> 00:34:27,599
like people like Keith Woods and whoever are constantly fighting

537
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:33,239
these accusations of communism is because I think the the

538
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:38,079
aspect of Western political society which is kind of kind

539
00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:43,280
of like libertarians, but not not strictly limited to them.

540
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,440
The kinds that think of well, they think of America.

541
00:34:47,559 --> 00:34:50,559
What makes America great is its economy. So ultimately there's

542
00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:56,960
this extreme economic preference or privilege over privileging. But they

543
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,199
look at like Adam Smith, and they look at how

544
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,639
we solved the issues of property in the Western canon

545
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,320
as being like definitive to who we are. And you know,

546
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,320
I have a different temperament I actually, I mean outside

547
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,599
of like toothbrushes and things like that, I kind of

548
00:35:11,639 --> 00:35:14,880
don't care so much about property. You kind of figured

549
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,519
those things out, like I don't know, maybe because I

550
00:35:17,559 --> 00:35:18,760
in another life I was a musician.

551
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,639
Speaker 1: Well you know, you know what an anarcho capitalist is

552
00:35:20,679 --> 00:35:22,159
going to say, Oh so you don't mind if I

553
00:35:22,159 --> 00:35:23,480
move into your apartment? Right?

554
00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 2: Well, and are narco capitalists don't mind if they move

555
00:35:26,519 --> 00:35:30,360
migrants into my apartment? So like fundamentally, you know, yeah.

556
00:35:30,159 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: They really they were so many of them really need

557
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,159
to go fuck themselves. I mean, I mean, I saw

558
00:35:36,599 --> 00:35:38,639
I was going back and forth with a guy today

559
00:35:38,679 --> 00:35:42,239
who was like, like, debate me on Israel. Debate me

560
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,199
on Israel, Debate me on Israel, because I'm like, oh,

561
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:46,960
I mean, I know the history of Israel and I

562
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,920
know how it was founded and out of the opinion

563
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:51,800
if you found something on terrorism, you're always going to

564
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,880
have terrorism there. So anyway, but then what did I

565
00:35:56,079 --> 00:35:58,119
what do you find when you go into his tweets

566
00:35:58,639 --> 00:36:02,920
open borders, free trade, and then you know, well, do

567
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,760
you feel the same way about Israel. I mean, so

568
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,639
it's like these libertarian types, they're just oh, well, yeah,

569
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,320
if I say we shouldn't have open borders, that means

570
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,800
that I worship the border patrol, and that means that

571
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,559
I'm a boot liquor whatever did.

572
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there's They're anachronistic. It's one of the like

573
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:32,159
most BTFO political ideologies post twenty fifteen, with communism as

574
00:36:32,199 --> 00:36:37,360
a very close second. But ultimately these are materialists, which

575
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,639
I think is related to egotism, which is related to

576
00:36:40,679 --> 00:36:44,599
this obsession with private property mine, you know, delineation of

577
00:36:44,639 --> 00:36:51,400
what is mine, this this over elaborated legal artifice to

578
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:56,119
define what is mine. I mean, ultimately, in a folkish setting,

579
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,960
these questions answered themselves, right, Like my if I leave

580
00:37:01,079 --> 00:37:04,079
my shirt at my brother's place, like, there's not going

581
00:37:04,119 --> 00:37:07,239
to be World War three because my property, he's holding

582
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,519
my property. It's like it's whatever, I'll see him next week.

583
00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:13,880
It's not the end of the world. Because I think

584
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:22,239
also there's a certain assumption in a folkish, nationalistic America

585
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,960
first society of like, hey man, I love you, you know,

586
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,760
like we're related to each other, we come from the

587
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:33,760
same place, probably even literally, but metaphorically, you know, in

588
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,320
terms of the grand myth man myths that animate our lives,

589
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:43,199
like we're the same and these types of nerdish economic

590
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,960
questions which do need to be solved and at complex societies,

591
00:37:47,039 --> 00:37:49,119
obviously you need to think about those kinds of things.

592
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,320
But it's a fixation. It has a lot to do

593
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,679
with paranoia, I think all of Once we start highlighting

594
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,159
these psychological factors, the types of people become very clear

595
00:38:01,599 --> 00:38:02,159
who they are.

596
00:38:03,679 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: Well, you use the term sociopathy and the header there

597
00:38:08,519 --> 00:38:13,559
under individualism, anarchism, and sociopathy. So when you use sociopathy,

598
00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:14,400
how are you using it?

599
00:38:15,679 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 2: Yeah? That's so it's one of these funny psychology words

600
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:24,000
that has a million definitions. I gave my own loose

601
00:38:24,559 --> 00:38:26,679
ish definition in the book. I actually don't have it

602
00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:28,119
in front of me, so I don't remember what I said.

603
00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:29,199
Do you have it?

604
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking for it right now. I can't find it.

605
00:38:32,679 --> 00:38:34,760
But go on, I'll I'll see if I can. I

606
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:35,679
can spot it, the.

607
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 2: Main thrust, because it's one of those things that like

608
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:43,559
people confuse with psychopathy, right, and you know there's there.

609
00:38:43,559 --> 00:38:47,400
These are very poorly defined concepts, yet there they do

610
00:38:47,519 --> 00:38:51,000
stand for something, and it means something when you use them.

611
00:38:51,079 --> 00:38:56,239
Psychopathy effectively, we're talking about, you know, in loose colloquial terms,

612
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,960
we're talking about the most dangerous, violent abrace if non

613
00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:01,519
conforming members of society.

614
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have here, Okay, So it says sociopathy as

615
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,480
a concept is poorly defined within the disciplines of psychiatry

616
00:39:08,519 --> 00:39:12,360
and psychology, and owing to its operational weakness, is greatly

617
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,239
abused by the late public and sadly professionals especially often

618
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,559
complated with other somewhat nebulously defined terms such as anti

619
00:39:20,599 --> 00:39:24,679
social and psychopath. Here, sociopath should be understood as an

620
00:39:24,679 --> 00:39:28,880
individual with an impoverished social feeling, often exhibited by the

621
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:37,360
following characteristics impulsivity, weak ego defenses, narcissism, irresponsibility, callousness, and

622
00:39:37,519 --> 00:39:39,559
attachment related anxiety.

623
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:45,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that covers it, because, if you want

624
00:39:45,119 --> 00:39:50,320
to think in a congenital sense, sociopathy very small representation

625
00:39:50,599 --> 00:39:54,840
in the overall population, not a lot of natural sociopaths,

626
00:39:56,039 --> 00:40:01,360
But we're mass producing people due to this intention to

627
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,079
destroy the family, destroy the community, destroy the nation, religion, borders,

628
00:40:05,119 --> 00:40:07,199
so on and so forth. I mean, if you encourage

629
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,280
people to get divorced. If you encourage people to be

630
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:14,639
sexually liberated, then that naturally has the consequence of weakening

631
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:19,480
the social unit we call the family. Children grow up

632
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,719
with fewer resources. Also think of like the crazy psychiatry

633
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:27,239
fads and child rearing fads over the last hundred years.

634
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,400
Each one's kind of like perverse and dysfunctional in his

635
00:40:30,519 --> 00:40:32,880
own unique way from the one that came before it.

636
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,280
So like, for example, like kids don't sleep with their parents.

637
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:41,320
You know, you don't nurse the children, you don't you

638
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,679
intentionally ignore the children. And some of these have caveats

639
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,320
like it's appropriate at certain times, under certain conditions for

640
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,280
certain people, et cetera, et cetera. But that's not how

641
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,639
America works, that's not how marketing works. And an idea

642
00:40:54,039 --> 00:40:57,320
is brought to people and we try to do this

643
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,159
one size fits all thing, which is not good. You

644
00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:04,199
get people with these attachment related disorders. Fundamentally, what that

645
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:09,440
means is while they didn't spend a lot of physical

646
00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:15,480
time with mom and dad, they are on a hormonal,

647
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:24,920
neurological probably other levels, malnourished, underdeveloped, and there's a very

648
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,679
limited window that infants and small children have to get

649
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:35,119
these resources. Especially when it comes to social development. It's

650
00:41:35,159 --> 00:41:40,199
really like h five age six, and the trend over

651
00:41:40,199 --> 00:41:44,159
the last fifteen years is to shove as many screens

652
00:41:44,159 --> 00:41:48,360
and images and highly stimulating things at ever younger children,

653
00:41:48,559 --> 00:41:51,639
so they're not socializing with people anyway. Then they go

654
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,000
through a crazy education system that's racially diverse, and blah

655
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,079
blah blah blah blah. What do you have? You have

656
00:41:57,119 --> 00:41:59,440
people who don't know how to develop relationships, who don't

657
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,480
actually on the structural level of their brain. They can't

658
00:42:03,559 --> 00:42:06,280
look at you and see you as a person with

659
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,199
a soul like that. They need to respect the dignity

660
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,320
of like all of these things that are kind of

661
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,159
I think second nature to people who maybe are older,

662
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:17,840
grew up with a different way of life, had more

663
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:25,280
like put in more rounds interacting with people. So you

664
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,239
have this mass like phenomenon of kind of like an

665
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:33,679
artificial sociopathy. People are constantly to invoke the transactional thing

666
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,360
from earlier. They're constantly looking at other people as means

667
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,920
to some other end. They are in a fundamentally exploitative

668
00:42:42,559 --> 00:42:48,320
mode of social interaction, and they are themselves very distressed

669
00:42:48,679 --> 00:42:52,599
and suffering, often to the point of some kind of

670
00:42:52,639 --> 00:43:01,159
addiction or otherwise impairment, fixation, fetish, what have you? Sex, politics, food, tattoos,

671
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:06,360
all of the above the thing. And I'll close it

672
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:11,159
off on this. I've got gab fever all night. I apologize, Like,

673
00:43:11,159 --> 00:43:13,679
like I said, I'm a younger guy. I turned thirty eight.

674
00:43:14,199 --> 00:43:17,039
It was very common still is, but when I was younger,

675
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:22,920
like normal millennial discourse is is this kind of neurotic

676
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,880
of like am I normal? Can you? Can you affirm

677
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,760
that I'm normal? Are you secretly a sociopath? This paranoia

678
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,800
of like what laundry list of mental disorders do you have?

679
00:43:32,599 --> 00:43:34,199
How quickly can I find it out? And then what

680
00:43:34,199 --> 00:43:35,880
are we going to do about it? You know? For

681
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:37,519
some people will be like let me find out so

682
00:43:37,559 --> 00:43:39,639
I can avoid you, And for other people it's like,

683
00:43:39,679 --> 00:43:43,199
let me find out so that I can never get

684
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:49,519
away from you? Right Like anyway, point being the sociopathy

685
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,400
like is just the norm almost.

686
00:43:55,159 --> 00:43:58,159
Speaker 1: It also seems a lot of people point out that

687
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,719
so many people these days there when they refer to truth,

688
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,679
it's always something subjective, And it seems like if you're

689
00:44:08,039 --> 00:44:12,840
this radical individual, you know, this neoliberal kind of individual,

690
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,559
your morality is going to be based around how anything

691
00:44:16,639 --> 00:44:21,119
affects you. You can't have a universal morality if everyone's

692
00:44:21,159 --> 00:44:21,880
an individual.

693
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,079
Speaker 2: You also can't have political organization if everyone's an individual.

694
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:30,199
So this is even more meaningfully the ultimate political outcome

695
00:44:30,199 --> 00:44:37,679
of individualism. If all justifications, all explanations, any any rationalization

696
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,400
you can offer, has to come specifically from you, your

697
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,039
specific circumstance of life, from the exact moment you were

698
00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:47,719
born until exactly this moment. You can't have reference to

699
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,400
anything else. Like you are atomized. You're one node, but

700
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,760
all of the circuitry around you has been like smashed

701
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,599
with ambers, so you can't plug into the larger network.

702
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,760
And that's very pernicious. I mean, ultimately, with that like

703
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:05,400
type of lot, the question like how does this affect

704
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,679
you personally? Like that is a persecutor's logic. That is,

705
00:45:08,679 --> 00:45:12,480
someone who that's friend enemy stuff like I don't talk

706
00:45:12,519 --> 00:45:14,599
to you or my brother or my friend or my

707
00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:18,159
neighbor like that. I get involved because I realized that

708
00:45:18,199 --> 00:45:20,960
we're part of the same thing, and there's not really

709
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,880
a conflict or a contradiction between him as an individual

710
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:29,360
and the social ecology that he's plugged into. Like this

711
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:33,199
is a big problem with libertarians too, collectivism. Collectivism is

712
00:45:33,199 --> 00:45:37,119
like one of these still remaining boogie words in politics,

713
00:45:37,119 --> 00:45:40,840
and they only really see it with libertarians. But it's

714
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,280
like it's again, it's it has to do with egotism, right,

715
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,599
because there are always collectives. The type of social activity

716
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:53,440
is ultimately a collectivist activity. So I mean all this

717
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,599
spoils to that. Jefferson Lee would say, as nationalists, the

718
00:45:58,679 --> 00:46:02,760
economic or the the the unit of society is actually

719
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,920
the nation itself, the people, right. But in neoliberal society,

720
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,880
it's just you, not even your kids, not even your

721
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,280
grandparents unless they want to blame you for things, shame

722
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:11,880
you for things.

723
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 1: But it seems that there is a group, and I

724
00:46:18,679 --> 00:46:22,639
think we know that pretty much down the middle when

725
00:46:22,639 --> 00:46:26,360
it comes to the most important things. You know, Republicans

726
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,360
and Democrats are going to get together. I mean, if

727
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,320
you're if you're having a vote on whether you know

728
00:46:31,639 --> 00:46:37,159
anti semitism is irrational and repugnant, everyone is going to

729
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,079
vote for that. If it's a vote for war, everyone

730
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,599
is going to you know, there's going to be very

731
00:46:42,599 --> 00:46:45,880
few people who are going to to abstain or even

732
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:50,599
say no. It's always issues that where it's like, oh, well,

733
00:46:51,679 --> 00:46:55,599
it's like to like to financial systems or the two

734
00:46:55,599 --> 00:46:58,039
competing financial systems. Well, no, we're not going to cut

735
00:46:58,079 --> 00:47:00,480
taxes now. Yes, we're going to cut taxes now. It

736
00:47:00,599 --> 00:47:04,679
always seems to be like the things that do cause

737
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:10,199
the most control or cause the most damage to the

738
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:15,719
system and the people financially and bodily, war sending kids

739
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:23,280
off to war for nothing. Those are right down the middle. Okay,

740
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,320
everything's good, we've given you the you're allowed to fight

741
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:32,000
about this here. But it's the whole elite theory thing too.

742
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,480
You do have some people who get together, five hundred

743
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,599
and thirty five of them, and then you know, stretch

744
00:47:38,639 --> 00:47:41,519
it out a little bit from there, who agree on things.

745
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,719
But when everyone is a radical individual, when everybody's a

746
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:54,800
neoliberal individual, getting groups to get together to possibly push

747
00:47:54,920 --> 00:48:01,639
back or to even supplant what's existing makes it impossible.

748
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,360
It's like they it's like they designed the perfect system.

749
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,519
If it was a hydrae, you wouldn't even know where

750
00:48:06,559 --> 00:48:12,360
to start cutting off heads because yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah.

751
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:17,360
The individualism thing also is a great tool for them

752
00:48:17,519 --> 00:48:21,320
because there hundred and fifty million people can't organize against

753
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,239
what is essentially probably what two thousand.

754
00:48:26,199 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there's there's a lot of aspects to what

755
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:28,440
you just said.

756
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: What was the devil? What was the angel devil saying

757
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:39,280
there that I say something to you that made you.

758
00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 2: No, I just well, just I always think because as

759
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,119
the older I get, the less psychologically inclined I become,

760
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:46,519
or in fact, I mean we should say, the more

761
00:48:46,559 --> 00:48:50,320
I think about these types of issues, the less psychology

762
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:56,559
uh factors into my ultimate kind of analytical process. Not

763
00:48:56,599 --> 00:49:00,679
to say it's unimportant, because it's you know it, it's

764
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,559
explicitly on a psychological battlefield that what you just said

765
00:49:05,199 --> 00:49:08,519
is being waged, right, is by putting you into just

766
00:49:08,679 --> 00:49:12,599
your body and blocking off all of the literally social

767
00:49:12,639 --> 00:49:15,840
resources that make us who we are, like just on

768
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:21,440
a small level, or been like with the group friends

769
00:49:21,519 --> 00:49:26,079
and then the chat ended or the friend group fell apart,

770
00:49:26,199 --> 00:49:28,719
or maybe you just like checked out for a little

771
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,719
while and you felt like dumber or like less sharp

772
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:37,800
or less on your less like you normally are, because

773
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,559
actually you're like plugged, you're like plugged into the Avengers.

774
00:49:40,599 --> 00:49:44,199
Like Okay, now I have plus fifteen IQ points because

775
00:49:44,199 --> 00:49:45,840
the guy next to me is a super genius, and

776
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,599
I've absorbed all of his knowledge, right, So, like, so

777
00:49:48,679 --> 00:49:52,760
much of what makes us great, even as individuals, are

778
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:58,119
the relations that we have. And to impose this program

779
00:49:58,159 --> 00:50:01,920
of individualism is to impose this program of ultimately kind

780
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,599
of psychologism, which makes us all prisoners of our own

781
00:50:06,559 --> 00:50:09,400
fears and anxieties, except for those of you know, people

782
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,960
in the audience who are extroverts and not neurotic. You know,

783
00:50:12,039 --> 00:50:15,280
I hate you. I hope you have a great life,

784
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,639
but I hate you the rest of us, you know,

785
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:22,559
it's it's this I'm imagining, like the guy on the

786
00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:25,880
train throwing the coal into the into the oven or whatever,

787
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,400
like you've just got it. It's just endless coal. You

788
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:30,920
can just kind of keep like psychologically, you just have

789
00:50:31,199 --> 00:50:36,440
continual resources to harm yourself because life is difficult. Being

790
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,559
in the body is weird. Nobody gets it right, but

791
00:50:38,639 --> 00:50:42,440
we all come from crazy circumstances. And there's a criminal,

792
00:50:42,519 --> 00:50:45,360
exploitative class at the top of everything. So it's not

793
00:50:45,559 --> 00:50:52,280
exactly you know, rosy pictures, rainbows things like that. However,

794
00:50:52,599 --> 00:50:55,639
there's no devil an angel. I just do like to

795
00:50:55,679 --> 00:50:59,320
emphasize that, you know, this is a program of containment.

796
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:03,039
These are the parameters through which that gets achieved. And

797
00:51:03,119 --> 00:51:05,920
so yeah, like if you can't get a couple of

798
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:11,199
people together to flyer or rally or protest or pass

799
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:15,000
around some kind of petition, I mean those first barriers,

800
00:51:15,159 --> 00:51:17,400
and they're the most important bearers. A lot of the

801
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:22,000
times are fundamentally psychological, Like seeing myself as a unit

802
00:51:22,119 --> 00:51:26,440
with Peter r. Kenonia's right, Like that's a psychological hurdle

803
00:51:26,639 --> 00:51:31,760
that you have to clear, not expecting. There's the joke

804
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,840
about like you know the guy who like meets hangs

805
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,000
out with his cousin from like Norway or Denmark and

806
00:51:39,039 --> 00:51:41,320
then gets a venmo for like seventy eight cents because

807
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,039
of half of the coffee you drink on the way

808
00:51:43,079 --> 00:51:45,840
to work together. Like that kind of like tit for

809
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:47,800
tat am I going to get everything out of Peter

810
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:50,480
that Peter is getting out of me? Like that's not

811
00:51:51,519 --> 00:51:56,840
a normal response. If we're a family of folk, we think, okay,

812
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,639
we're gonna work all this out together. So yeah, I

813
00:51:59,639 --> 00:52:01,599
feel like I'm repeating myself a little bit, but I'll

814
00:52:01,679 --> 00:52:02,239
leave it at bet.

815
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 1: People need to hear that. Let's finish on this.

816
00:52:06,039 --> 00:52:10,679
Speaker 2: What's chophobia it's the hatred of the familiar, or fear

817
00:52:10,679 --> 00:52:16,400
of the familiar, maybe even disgust of the familiar. It's

818
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:21,760
what every Midwesterner, every Midwestern eighteen year old, you know,

819
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:23,480
just at a fresh out of college who moves to

820
00:52:23,519 --> 00:52:25,599
New York that I've ever met, That's what they're all like,

821
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:30,000
Oh my god, Wyoming is so terrible. It's like, fuck you,

822
00:52:30,559 --> 00:52:37,400
I'll go there in a second. Let's stright place. It's well,

823
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,960
I say, this is someone who suffers it. Right, Like,

824
00:52:40,079 --> 00:52:43,079
if you want to again, on psychological terms, what is acophobia,

825
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:48,000
It's high trade openness. Right, you are a novelty oriented person.

826
00:52:48,079 --> 00:52:54,360
You buy your temperament, experience lower levels of disgust at

827
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:59,480
unfamiliar or things that would typically that trigger discust. Right,

828
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,840
feel less discussed, You're more inclined to experiment, try new things.

829
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,960
You're more novelty seeking. You're probably less neurotic neurotic, meaning

830
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,679
the intensity of negative emotions that you experienced. Like sometimes

831
00:53:11,679 --> 00:53:14,079
we think of neuroticism as just like self attacking, but

832
00:53:14,199 --> 00:53:17,760
it's more like how hot does the engine get when

833
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,400
you're stressed, and if you're very neurotic, well, it gets

834
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,960
very hot, very quickly. And it takes you a very

835
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,920
long time or maybe never to totally decompress, not literally never.

836
00:53:27,199 --> 00:53:29,840
That would be like a very extreme case. Co morbidity

837
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,039
is up to you, huh, but a certain type. But

838
00:53:33,119 --> 00:53:36,119
it's also of the condition that we've inherited. Especially and

839
00:53:36,159 --> 00:53:40,559
I want to emphasize this, it's technologically facilitated. It is

840
00:53:40,599 --> 00:53:45,360
absolutely like you would not see the kind of Jesus

841
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,639
Christ get me if there was not an ease of

842
00:53:48,679 --> 00:53:51,599
the ability to get the fuck out of town. So,

843
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,679
you know, travel being the way that it is, these

844
00:53:55,719 --> 00:54:01,079
things encourage psychological tendencies that have pros and con you know,

845
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:06,920
I love Peter Gabriel's album that's also his like I'm

846
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,960
a third worldist, you know, screw Whitey album. But it's

847
00:54:11,079 --> 00:54:13,920
great and he's has a great ensemble of musicians and

848
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:18,239
he's playing this kind of world style and it's interesting

849
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:26,079
and it's cool, but you can't live there and uh yeah,

850
00:54:26,119 --> 00:54:28,719
I mean the flip side, I guess is auchophelia. And

851
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,039
this might be like the conservative disease of too much

852
00:54:32,199 --> 00:54:37,239
veneration of tradition and too much kind of well to

853
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,719
be crass boot licking right, like the extreme like a

854
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,400
peliac is effectively the boot licker, and the extreme likegophobic

855
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,920
is going to be the you know, the race trader

856
00:54:47,039 --> 00:54:48,039
or just just the trader.

857
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 1: It's funny that that came up because I was saying

858
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,079
on Twitter the other day that like the town I

859
00:54:55,119 --> 00:54:58,199
live in there, I have friends who their families have

860
00:54:58,199 --> 00:55:01,480
been here for two hundred years and they they own

861
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:05,000
their own land here, they owned businesses here, and even

862
00:55:05,039 --> 00:55:07,559
though you know, they went an hour and twenty minutes

863
00:55:07,559 --> 00:55:09,880
away to go to college, they came back and they

864
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,519
knew they were going to come back because they were

865
00:55:12,559 --> 00:55:16,800
continuing a tradition and continuing continue well a legacy. And

866
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:18,920
I think it's really interesting to find out that when

867
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,119
you start talking about that to people and you're like,

868
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,199
you know, it's not too late to start do that. Now,

869
00:55:25,559 --> 00:55:28,880
find a plot of land, find something, start building, you know,

870
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,599
start living you know, as Thomas seven seven seven says,

871
00:55:31,599 --> 00:55:36,639
start living historically and teaching, you know, teaching your progeny

872
00:55:36,679 --> 00:55:39,800
how to do that. And did the amount of pushback

873
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,519
that you can get from get from talking like that

874
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:44,840
is just you know, what if I want my kid,

875
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,480
what if my kid meets somebody, you know, from another state,

876
00:55:47,519 --> 00:55:49,079
you know, and they want to get married with someone

877
00:55:49,159 --> 00:55:53,159
from another state, Well he or she can move there,

878
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,679
you know, could move there if you have ten if

879
00:55:56,679 --> 00:55:58,800
you have ten acres, if you have twenty acres, Why

880
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,400
would you want him to go buy a house. Just

881
00:56:02,039 --> 00:56:04,320
build a house on the property and you know, stay

882
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,800
there and you know, build something and build a legacy

883
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,760
of some sort. When you when you look at Monticello

884
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,159
and Mount Vernon in places like that, I mean, those

885
00:56:13,199 --> 00:56:17,719
were supposed to be legacies, and now they're museums. And

886
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,880
I think Monticello is now a museums awoke of some sort.

887
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:26,719
And I don't think that's achophelia. I think that's just

888
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:31,440
the way people have lived and kept order within society

889
00:56:31,599 --> 00:56:37,719
for hundreds and hundreds of years until until we this

890
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:42,079
technological revolution, but also this individual revolution.

891
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 2: The And they would certainly like to pack. When I

892
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:47,840
say they, I mean people who are opponents of our

893
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:51,840
worldview would certainly try to paint that as I mean,

894
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,440
they would take it a step further. Iphelic might be

895
00:56:54,559 --> 00:56:57,199
kind of a sort of polite way, still derogatory ultimately

896
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,239
in this context, but they're going to take that to

897
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:01,400
the next step. I mean they're just going to accuse

898
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,440
you of being like an in breeder, and then it

899
00:57:04,639 --> 00:57:13,360
immediately becomes some kind of dysgenic, disgusting thing, which ironically

900
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:17,559
or humorously enough, is like the opposite. You know, the

901
00:57:17,599 --> 00:57:20,960
thing that they're instituting is very much what they're accusing

902
00:57:21,039 --> 00:57:24,639
us of trying to promote. I would just say one thing.

903
00:57:24,679 --> 00:57:26,719
I mean again, it's also part of the political program.

904
00:57:26,719 --> 00:57:29,880
If you de industrialize major parts of the country, it

905
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:33,280
becomes a less attractive place to live. And what happens

906
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:36,320
to the people there. They get fat, they become addicts,

907
00:57:36,519 --> 00:57:38,360
they die early, They beat the shit out of their

908
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:42,559
kids and their wives, They fucking kill people. They turned

909
00:57:42,599 --> 00:57:45,599
the local law enforcement into just bullshit, They turned the

910
00:57:45,599 --> 00:57:49,519
court system into everything decays, and young people grew up,

911
00:57:49,519 --> 00:57:52,880
and that young people who naturally have an inclination to

912
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:58,559
explore and persevere and test boundaries and are very much

913
00:57:58,599 --> 00:58:01,119
bored with the familiar. Actually in the climate that we're in,

914
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,840
what else are they supposed to feel when they look

915
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,239
at the town they grew up in and know people

916
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:11,760
either leave or they die. That's you know, that's that's

917
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:16,119
a political program. And that's also something I think people

918
00:58:16,159 --> 00:58:17,079
don't understand all that.

919
00:58:17,119 --> 00:58:21,159
Speaker 1: Well. I talked to friends and I'm like, you know, family,

920
00:58:21,199 --> 00:58:22,679
I wish I would have grown up in a family

921
00:58:22,679 --> 00:58:25,199
that would have put such a great importance on family

922
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:29,480
and the family, the family land and everything. My my grandmother,

923
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,719
my grandparents had land in Puerto Rico that could have

924
00:58:32,719 --> 00:58:35,519
been handed down, but of course it got sold off

925
00:58:35,559 --> 00:58:38,679
like all boomers do and everything like that. I didn't

926
00:58:38,679 --> 00:58:42,079
want the money I wanted, Yeah, I wanted the legacy.

927
00:58:43,039 --> 00:58:46,800
But the I'm talking to a friend of mine and

928
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,360
saying how important family is, like, well, my parents were

929
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,639
shiit my you know, my mother, my mother was a

930
00:58:51,639 --> 00:58:55,000
piece of shit. And it's like, well, why why do

931
00:58:55,079 --> 00:58:57,639
you think there was some kind of external circumstance. Do

932
00:58:57,679 --> 00:59:01,639
you think they grew up in a in a society

933
00:59:01,719 --> 00:59:06,480
that gave them this mentality that just poison their food,

934
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:09,159
did all this stuff to them that made them become

935
00:59:10,039 --> 00:59:12,840
become like that? You know, it can all start with you.

936
00:59:13,199 --> 00:59:15,159
And I mean that's yeah.

937
00:59:15,239 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's trauma induced I hate to

938
00:59:17,519 --> 00:59:22,800
use that word, but or if it's more akin to

939
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:27,440
this individualism and egotism we're talking about. But you know,

940
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:31,199
like I not to get too personal. I mean, I

941
00:59:31,239 --> 00:59:33,400
love my family. I'm glad I had the family that

942
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:35,239
I had. I'm glad I grew up where I grew up.

943
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,039
I like my life, but it wasn't the greatest situation.

944
00:59:38,119 --> 00:59:40,079
But I always felt and this is something I saw

945
00:59:40,119 --> 00:59:42,360
reflected in the people who grew up around me, was

946
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:44,880
that at a certain age, you look at the people

947
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:50,320
around you as people who have had to answer the

948
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:54,440
same challenges of life that you have to answer, and

949
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,960
then you come to understand them in a more human way.

950
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,039
I look back on my parent parents, and of all

951
01:00:01,159 --> 01:00:04,880
the things I'm dissatisfied with now as an adult, I

952
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:09,360
think back, well, when they were my age, well, they

953
01:00:09,519 --> 01:00:12,280
probably thought the whole world was like constantly on the

954
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:17,039
precipice of nuclear abomination, you know, like they row. They

955
01:00:17,079 --> 01:00:20,079
really thought that right for decades, they really thought that

956
01:00:20,159 --> 01:00:23,079
it was a real thing. And before that everyone they

957
01:00:23,159 --> 01:00:25,800
knew had had fucking pieces of them blown off in

958
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:31,679
Vietnam or Korea or w W two uh. And before that,

959
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:35,920
maybe they grew up poor, and maybe their parents lived

960
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:39,039
through the there lived through the Great Depression. Maybe they

961
01:00:39,079 --> 01:00:40,920
were immigrants and they came here and they had all

962
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:45,400
kinds of like generally speaking, you know, like when when

963
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:49,159
lefties talked about how awful and brutish and violent and

964
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:53,760
terrible history has been, They're right, it's it's a it's

965
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,360
a rough go. You know. The twentieth century was literally

966
01:00:57,199 --> 01:00:59,280
us just like, how do we fucking kill more? How

967
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,920
do we kill more European people? Industrial baby, let's do it.

968
01:01:04,519 --> 01:01:10,559
Your parents inherited hellscape, grandparents inherited hellescape, your great grandparents.

969
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,280
We've actually, maybe for only a couple of generations, have

970
01:01:13,519 --> 01:01:16,440
kind of had it pretty good where you know, you

971
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,440
didn't have to go through child labor, you didn't have

972
01:01:18,519 --> 01:01:21,840
to like all the things you could. You had an adolescence.

973
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:24,320
That wasn't the thing. One hundred years ago. There was

974
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:27,079
no there was no idea of let kids be kids.

975
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,159
Oh don't you know, don't give little timmy too much homework.

976
01:01:30,199 --> 01:01:33,320
There was that idea did not exist. Turn of the century.

977
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,679
Twentieth century British psychiatry was telling parents just short of

978
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,719
beat your kids, it's good for them.

979
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:40,440
Speaker 1: Right.

980
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 2: So this is all a very different thing, and maybe

981
01:01:44,559 --> 01:01:46,599
I'm willing to bet it has more to do with

982
01:01:46,719 --> 01:01:50,840
the psychological dimensions of suffering and trauma that people don't

983
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:54,599
look at these prior generations, see that humanity and want

984
01:01:54,679 --> 01:01:57,840
to be the torch bear for that tradition. That's where

985
01:01:57,880 --> 01:01:59,800
I ended up. That's where most of the people I

986
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:03,199
know end it up. And if you want to end

987
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:06,599
up there too, I think logical questions cool.

988
01:02:06,679 --> 01:02:09,239
Speaker 1: All right, remind everybody where they can find your stuff again,

989
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:10,320
and I'll end the end.

990
01:02:10,199 --> 01:02:14,719
Speaker 2: This Jneil dot substack dot com. That's for the Substack

991
01:02:15,119 --> 01:02:21,000
on YouTube, Psychopolitics on X, Psychopolitics with the K, and

992
01:02:21,119 --> 01:02:24,199
then check out Imperium Press for American extremists and then

993
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,880
probably in like three weeks understanding conspiracy theories. And thank

994
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,159
you again so much, Peter for your patience and your

995
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:30,840
your invitation.

996
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 1: No problem, and come back real soon and we'll talk

997
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:38,239
about narratives or something like that. Absolutely, thank you, Josh