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Speaker 1: Maybe it's just a radio thing. Variety, give people a variety,

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and that's what we do on aero dot net a

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r r oe dot net. It's not just a podcast

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with rockstars and movie stars. Oh, it's about lifestyle and beyond.

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It's variety a r r oe dot Net. Enjoy the exploration.

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Speaker 2: You guys have got to tell me how this project

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came together, because in reality, this is a needle in

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a haystack. In other words, history has lost it and

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you have relocated it.

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Speaker 3: So there was an article written by Danny Wistenkowski, who

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is a journalist from Saint Louis. He wrote a article

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in the Riverfront Time and it was included in an

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app called long Form, which did the best long form

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of journalism from around.

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Speaker 4: This country, if not the world that at no longer

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exists unfortunately. But we read it on that and then

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we bought the rights to the article and we're trying

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to adapt it into a screenplay. Sorry, I'm hearing a

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bunch of background noise.

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Speaker 2: From you, by the way, now, I mean, but I

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mean to get to get that permission to do it.

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I mean, that couldn't have been a difficult thing, was it?

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Because I mean, everybody wants to have their story, and

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I've always believed share your story or someone will write

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it for you. And you guys are the ones that

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are going no, you've already written it. We just want

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to share it now.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're trying to adapt it to a scripted project basically, and.

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Speaker 4: It takes forever to adapt things in the scripts, but

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we're screenwriters and then be able to do it.

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Speaker 3: And basically Danny said, well, listen, Max still alive. If

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you want to go talk to him, you can go

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to Saint Louis and like interview him on camera.

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Speaker 4: He'd be down to do it. And so we huffled

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a crew together and went and shot with him for

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four days.

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Speaker 3: And twenty nineteen, and that's sort of what started the

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whole process.

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Speaker 4: You first did a podcast so off.

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Speaker 2: That when you build that story up and you sit

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down with him, I mean, it's like what because in

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my mind, what I get, what I feel is that

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he is calm, cool, collected, He's got his visions intact,

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he knows what he's doing every step of the way

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because he's a planner. Did you feel that at all?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean we walked him, we really walked him

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through bit by bit. You know, he is a planner

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to a certain expit, but also his plans were a

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kind of a house of cars, you know, things fell

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out of place really really quickly, and the whole plant collapsed.

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And that he found himself high schedule and not having

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jumped out of the airplane before with a parachute is

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a big thing not to.

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Speaker 4: Have done when you are pulling a hipes like this.

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So I think you can use the term planner loosely.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say that. I would say that Mac

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will admit that he was not the most criminally sophisticated

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skyjacker out there. Uh, and that his plan was loose

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at best when he when he tried this and and

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actually pulled it off.

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Speaker 3: See.

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Speaker 2: And that's what inspires me because it's almost like I'm

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watching grit TV. This is an old western that's on TV,

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the good, the bad, the ugly, and I'm going, oh

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my god, this is so cool. This is in our times.

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Speaker 4: Yeah for sure. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But when you to bring a story forward, I mean,

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anybody can have a history, I mean, because we can

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go into Wikipedia to get that, but you guys have

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put it in story form to where we stay glued

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into it as viewers. I mean that in itself takes

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an art.

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Speaker 4: I mean it was a lot of hard work.

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Speaker 5: It started with us getting connected with Mac and getting

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his story on tape. And originally we were gonna do

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it as a scripted project because Elie and I are screenwriters.

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But once we got his story on tape, we decided

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that there was a documentary play here. We shopped it

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around town with as a documentary and we partnered up

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with a company called Imperative, and they're the once who

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asked us to do it as a podcast. We had

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never done a podcast before, but it was a fantastic experience.

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Not only was it, you know, hands off creatively, we

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were able to do what we wanted to do, but

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it was an outstanding way to break down the story

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into episodes and figure out what parts of a very

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complex story were the most important.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because what I like about that is the fact

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that you have purchased enough time for the listeners as

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well as the viewers to be able to piece this

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together in the way of building the storyline instead of

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slamming it into a thirty minute episode or even a

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one hour episode.

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Speaker 1: And they lived happily.

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Speaker 2: Ever after you've got the time to share the story.

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Speaker 5: Well, that was the challenge was taking six and a

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half hours of content from the podcast and turning it

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into a ninety five minute feature documentary. But there's so

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much story, and we encourage our listeners not only to

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check out the film, but listen to the podcast as well.

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Speaker 4: If they love the.

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Speaker 2: Film didn't want to know more, well, you know, that's

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exactly what they're going to do, because when you see

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something like this and you want more information, the first

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thing you're going to go do is get even a

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deeper story into it, because in reality, don't you think

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we all see ourselves in his in his life?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: I would think, though, I mean that's kind of a

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that's kind of the appeal of Mac is dB Cooper's

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kind of this mythical figure who is the stuff of legend.

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But we actually think mac story is better because there's

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a second and third act, because Mac is such an

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accessible and honest and reliable narrator and he's really you know,

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it says if your buddy said, Hey, I'm gonna go

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ahead and try and do what Dbe Cooper did, and uh,

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and that's Mac story that's what we loved about it. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But then, as my wife would say, because she's such

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a simple person in the way of asking questions.

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Speaker 1: How how how did he get.

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Speaker 2: Away with something like this and and to be able

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to have the career should jump out of an airplane?

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I mean, I mean it's I mean, that was everything

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on that plane. How did he know what was even

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on there?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Good, anyway, he didn't.

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Speaker 3: He didn't really get away with it, but he had

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the gut to basically ask for it, and at the

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time he was they didn't know how to deal with

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skyjackers like him, other.

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Speaker 4: Than to just give it to him.

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Speaker 3: You know, we've always said mac is a disruptor. Before

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disruptors were a thing.

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Speaker 4: You know, airplanes were a new type of technology.

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Speaker 3: All these people who came in to hijack them were

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basically disrupting that form of technology in the world sage

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around them.

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Speaker 2: I was going to ask you about that time period

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because I was a young adult in that time period.

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I do remember all the hijackings that were taking place.

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So and then to read about this, I'm going, oh

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my god, this is like a page from my childhood.

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Speaker 4: Man.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, over three hundred Yeah, over three hundred guyjacking worldwide

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during that time period. So it's really crazy how accepted

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it was, how common it was, and then also how

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few people got as far as acted with, you know,

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with getting the money and actually making an escape. What

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happens after that, You'll have to check out the film

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exactly it goes.

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Speaker 1: Right, Please do not move. There's more with Eli and

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Joshua coming up next. The name of the documentary American Skyjacker.

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We are back with the creators Eli Chorus and Jason Schaeffer.

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How did he know when and where to jump?

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Speaker 2: Because I am such a prepper that it's like I

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would have to know exactly when to make that move.

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Speaker 4: I mean, he didn't.

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Speaker 3: He was delayed by the car hitting the plane and

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having to get a new plane, and then he's just

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kind of guessed and was hoping he wasn't over water. Basically,

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he saw life when he jumped out of the back,

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but he was hoping.

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Speaker 4: He wasn't over water to kill him. Oh yeah, but

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you know, the goal was never to really jump in

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a specific place.

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Speaker 3: It was to make the pilot think he was going

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to Canada and then jump out and disappear for a

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little bit really, and he just wanted to get back

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to Detroit.

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Speaker 2: Ideally, at his age, does he still look at himself

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in the mirror and think, you know, I'm the one

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that hijacked that airplane or is it something that Yeah,

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that was only in chapter fifteen of my life. There's

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a lot more to me than just that.

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Speaker 3: Oh. I think he's reformed himself and he understands how

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stupid it was.

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Speaker 4: But I also think there is a sense of pride

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that he was able to survive something like that.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 4: I think that Max definitely regrets it.

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Speaker 3: And there is a certain tragic element to this whole

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story because the man did waste his.

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Speaker 4: Life ultimately, yeah, in prison.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, it was a pretty remarkable

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way to get there, you know.

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Speaker 2: But you had to have been inspired to hear that, yeah,

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he tried to escape prison, because I mean, I'm going, yes,

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that's my a hero man. He wants out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's the natural human inclination.

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Speaker 4: And I think that he actually exercised it. And that's

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kind of Mack in a nutshell too. It's like he

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exercises those fantasies we have.

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Speaker 3: In our minds for a little bit and throw out

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because they're terrible ideas.

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Speaker 4: He actually goes through with it.

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Speaker 2: Don't you think though, that his voice adds so much

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to the storyline in the way that we're hearing the authenticity,

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whereas a dB Cooper Ah, like you said, it's mystical.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it is.

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Speaker 4: He is the story.

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Speaker 5: Without him, you know, we wouldn't have this story, wouldn't

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be telling if he didn't have it coming from the

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man in his own words.

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Speaker 1: Right right.

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Speaker 2: And that's where I respect you because I mean, how

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many times have we all watched these rock documentaries and

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it's everybody but the person sharing the story and that

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and that you guys went the extra mile and said, no,

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we're getting the real dude. We're gonna put him. Yeah,

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we're gonna make it happen.

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Speaker 5: Yep, you know that's right.

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Speaker 4: There's a there's a documentary that came out years ago,

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about twelve years ago called lec Million. It's about a guy.

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Speaker 3: Who pretended to be a boy who had been he

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disappeared in San Antonio, Texas.

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Speaker 4: But this guy was a French guy and he was

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in a bunch of trouble and he just basically said

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he was.

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Speaker 3: This boy and had grown up and been abducted and

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taken to France, and the family said it was him,

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even though it wasn't him anyway, the documentary told entirely

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from his perspective, him looking down.

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Speaker 4: The barrel at the camera, and he made that conscious

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choice to kind.

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Speaker 3: Of nod and homage that film, because when somebody's talking

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directly to you, you engaged them more, and by him

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looking down the barrel of the camera, he engages with

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the audience.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: He knew who they were, He knew who was on

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the other end of that camera, right right.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: So now, of course, being in broadcasting for all these years,

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and then I hear what he used as the lines

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when he's on the airplane. I sit there and I

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see somebody of leadership quality, because he was able to

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control a group of people in the fused amount of

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seconds on the clock, and that, to me, that's a leader.

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So I mean, did you feel that when you were

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with him, that he had that in his voice, in

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his heart, in his soul.

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Speaker 4: I didn't really.

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Speaker 5: I didn't really feel that, particularly, you know, because the

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second there's this whole second part to his story where

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he almost assumes the role of a follower as opposed

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to the Peter. So I feel like, you know, it

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does take a certain amount of kutzpah, as they say,

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to do what he did and try what he tried.

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But you know what also appealed to us is Mac

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is very open about the fact that he was in

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over his head from pretty much moment one and doing

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his best to stay above water.

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Speaker 2: Did any of it feel like, oh, this is just

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another teenager in adult clothes that's pulling off a stunt,

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because it really does sound like a stunt that we

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would have pulled off, and that we would have been

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sitting around in the fire circle drinking on some beer

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and all of a sudden said I got an eye.

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Let's go hijack an airplane. Really, yeah, I'll do it.

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I'll be the one that's going to do it.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean that that was a lot of

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emphasis for it. I mean, I think there was some

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disillusion that it was like.

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Speaker 3: Going to the military and not having anything really worked

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out job wise. You know, there's something we left out

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of the film that was in the podcast that he

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was he was briefly married and he just really couldn't

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get his life together.

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Speaker 4: And I think that the easy get rich quick scheme.

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Speaker 3: Which everybody kind of wants, seep down with something that

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he was going to jump on, and this was the

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best way for him.

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Speaker 4: To do it.

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Speaker 2: It's taken fifty three years to share this story, and

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yet what you guys are doing with American Skyjacker, it

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feels like it's in mind.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: That's great, sad to hear it, but that in itself

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means that you're no different than than than he was

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in the way of looking down the barrel of that camera.

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You know exactly who you're trying to reach as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think we're just trying to put

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the audience there.

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Speaker 4: You know, that was the goal. That's the goal with

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the pod. That's why we have high end sound design. Yep,

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that's why we.

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Speaker 3: Have max helling the majority of the story, and that's

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why we made a decision with the film to have

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him look down the barrel of the camera and go

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kind of moment by moments because it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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you can say this guy hijacks the plane and jumps

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out of the back, but everything like that.

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Speaker 4: But let's break it down, let's blow it down, let's

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go down to the minutea of.

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Speaker 3: Like each of those moments, like each of those decisions

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you have to make to go through that process and

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pull this off or try to.

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Speaker 4: Pull this off.

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Speaker 5: What is that like?

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Speaker 3: And that's an intense, unique experience for an audience to

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go through.

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Speaker 2: Well, you guys are so spot on as to where

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your viewers and listeners are by having the podcast as

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well as the documentary, because I mean, it is the

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one place that people are going either you're either a

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visual or you're an audio person, and I mean you're

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spot on when it comes to this story.

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Speaker 4: Appreciate it, thank you.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But in order to take it to the next level,

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you are you going to merchandise it? Because wouldn't it

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be great to be sporting a T shirt? I mean,

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I can't be the only one who sits here and

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thinks this guy is so cool.

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Speaker 3: We've talked about it, you know, We've got we've got

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great posters that will probably put online to sell at

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some point soon. We're just getting the film out there first,

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you know. I mean, obviously the initial the initial strategy

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here was to do the podcast and then do different

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derivatives of the podcast, and the documentary is the first

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version of that. You know, there's obviously the scripted film,

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maybe the limited television series something like that. Hell, who

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wouldn't want to see a Martin mccally stage play too.

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Speaker 2: What did you learn from this? Because I mean this

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right now is just to step inside your chapter. So

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what did you learn to get to do with it

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as a collaboration?

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Speaker 3: You know, like I think that we learned that we

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could do cinematic recrease where you see the faces of

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the characters and you can make it work off of

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the actual person telling the stories.

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Speaker 4: America Skyjacker is the first.

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Speaker 3: Of a number of these that we've done where we

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have the person with this incredible true crime or true

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crime and story telling it. But they're all unique true crime.

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It's not you know, murdery true crime where it's like

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to take advantage of somebody's death or something like that.

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The second one we did was called American Coyote, about

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a guy who ran over a thousand people across the

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US Mexico board between nineteen eighty seven and two thousand

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and one. But he was a white dude from Huntington

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Beach and he was a Mormon, and he was trying

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to make money for his family at six when he

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was twenty three years old, and he had of these

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craft unique ways of running people across, and it's about

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his whole experience doing that.

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Speaker 4: The next one we did was.

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Speaker 3: About a guy who robbed the Bolagio casino in Las

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Vegas and twenty ten on his motorcycle. And he's still

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two thousand or sorry, three million dollars in chips from.

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Speaker 4: The craft table and got away on his motorcycle. But

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he only had chips, and so that's not money.

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Speaker 3: He can't go into a comedience store and buy anything

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with poker chips, so you have to go back to

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the casino to cash him in. So fully expecting to

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get tackled by security, he walks back.

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Speaker 4: In the next day, doesn't get.

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Speaker 3: Tackled, starts stirrepeticiously casting out these chips, and after a

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week of doing it, the host of the casino walks

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up to.

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Speaker 4: Him, is like, hey, you're a high high roller. You

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want a suite and start living in the casino. He

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robs for the next six week. Finally taught and we

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have him telling history and his own works too.

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Speaker 3: So this is just kind of the beginning of a

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larger storytelling world that we're trying to create.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm shocked that you guys aren't releasing a country

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music album because it sounds like something that would belong

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in a country song.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe we should look into that too.

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Speaker 5: If if we can sing and play guitar baby.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, where can people go to find out about everything

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that you guys are doing? Because to me, you're preserving

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Americana and that's what's inspiring to me, is what you

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guys are doing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I appreciate that. Uh.

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Speaker 3: For American Skyjacker, go to American skyjacker dot com.

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Speaker 4: You can see all the different platforms. It's on for

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rent or by. It'll be on a vod soon, but

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ren er buy it now, and uh it'll do more

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for us.

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Speaker 2: Well, man, you got to come back to this show

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each time in the future because you guys are far

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from being finished.

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Speaker 1: I can feel it in my soul.

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Speaker 5: Thanks so much, NK.

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Speaker 4: I appreciate it. Man.

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Speaker 2: Will you guys be brilliant today?

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Speaker 4: Okay, all right, let's take care