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Speaker 1: In Ireland, we know a thing or two about doing

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things the right way, like the right way to do

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New Year's resolutions. So I was looking at yoga.

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Speaker 2: But then someone said about reformer classes, and I was

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considering if maybe juicing is more made you know a

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little cold.

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Speaker 1: But not all of us are recycling the right way

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just yet. Putting cans and bottles in your mixed recycling

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bin isn't as good as returning.

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Speaker 3: When they're kept separate.

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Speaker 1: More can be recycled again and again. But then I thought,

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start small. So I'm returning this year's resolution. Return it right, life,

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non stop, So don't let coals and flu stop you.

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For over forty years, powerful uniflu has helped clear congestion,

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runny noses, reduce aches, pains, fever, and relieve headaches and cough.

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And vitam and c is built into boost immune systems.

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So give cold and flu the old one two with

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uniflu available from local pharmacies. Always read the leaflet.

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Speaker 2: Man like this man letting butterfly latin in wing, big

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ban in our force.

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Speaker 3: Man, go cause a tree.

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Speaker 2: Fowl letting five thousand miles away.

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Speaker 3: Man, nobody seen it? Nobody else you see you don't

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need no man.

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Speaker 2: Like you followed him and you got backed for black Man, go.

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Speaker 3: Back and night on the panel.

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Speaker 4: Man, all right, Roman Kabinack, Welcome to the Jay Burdon Show.

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Speaker 2: How you doing, Man, absolute treaty to be here, and

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thank you for having me ongum.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Man, I'm really excited to have you on.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 4: I've never been to South Africa, but every South Africa

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I've met, I just love them. It's a great country

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and a great culture. And I've been following your stuff

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for a while because i am very much interested in

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what goes on in your country. Uh, full transparency. This

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is sort of an impromptu recording to guest drop out

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due to illness and throughout, you know, kind of a

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call on social media and you responded very quickly, and

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I'm super excited to have you on.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 4: You have YouTube channel, it's quite good beive linked down

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in the description. I am a viewer, kind of a

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follower of what goes on in your nation. But when

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we were talking before, like you know, what are we

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going to talk about, you mentioned the South africanization of

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the world of the West and by extension, my nation.

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So I'm curious, right, let's launch into that. You say

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that term South Africanization, what do you mean?

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Speaker 2: So the an optimization of the West is basically a

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bit of a history list and in for my country.

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So I say my country. I was born in France.

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I rand in South Africa at the age of three

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and haven't been here ever since. I could move back

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to France, I could move back to anywhere in Europe.

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I choose not to on purpose, because this place is

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great and the problem has put the right mindset in

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an incredible life on par with the top one percent

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anywhere in the world, bar none. So I'm deeply in

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love with my adopted country and consider myself patriots. But

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for a history lesson of South Africa escual. In the

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twentieth century, the great battle was between the local Africanas

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and the Yiddish, the Anglers.

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Speaker 3: It was the British colony. For a long a time.

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Speaker 2: Two wars were fought, the costliest and longest wars of

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the British Empire until World War One and after that

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of those wars, but in the great real question was

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how do we bring together these two people, the Anglers

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and the Afriganas together into one nation. You'll notice what's

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missing is the Black population of the Africa, which at

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the time was relatively small right now is of course

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a major majority.

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Speaker 3: There was very.

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Speaker 2: Few policies or interests into what's called the local population

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of South Africa. That changed nineteen eighty four with the

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end of what they call apartheid. And since nineteen eighty

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four we've basically been run by these quasi communist globalists.

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Speaker 3: You have these people who.

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Speaker 2: Were educated in Moscow, or were educated in London, or

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educated in Sweden, or went to university or had camps

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and then the rest of Africa against the struggle against apartheid.

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And when they got powered in ninete eighty four through

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various means, they didn't really know how to run a country.

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So who helped them? All the people who educated them,

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the English and Swedish, the un the Americans, to be honest,

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and ever since ninety four, it does appear that South

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Africa has been in laboratory for every single brain dead

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ideology the world's ever known, right from a great aids

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versus how to grow food versus how to educate people,

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every policy made overseas being it here implemented it and

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LAWYS was a disaster for the most part. So what

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this organization of the best actually means is, in a

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circum context, a big country, multiple groups of people, multiple ethnicities,

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and the lack of leadership, and in their vacuum, anything

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goes mapears, corporate interests, Russian mercenaries, you name it. And

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itably what happens is the country becomes factionalized by who

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makes money from it, by hook or by crook. So

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if you look at the immigration patterns into Europe in

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the past decade, immigration into America in the past twenty

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thirty years, you bring in a lot of people from

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all over the world, and the authorities in the nation

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to welcome them openly and allow them under the auspices

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of human rights, to bring in their blood feuds, to

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bring in their scams, to bring it frauds, and inevitively,

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you just creates a very low trust society and soon

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everyone has bob layer around their properties. And that's basically,

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in a nutshell, the subf organization of the WIST.

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Speaker 4: There are several things there have been on kind of

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a run talking about, you know, the Blade Runner films,

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and look, partially it's because I'm sick of talking in politics.

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It's fun to do some you know, media analysis to

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sort of break things up. But there's another element to

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there's another element where it is sort of the future

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that came true. You know, you have this kind of

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teeming diverse city where you know, there is law enforcement,

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there are you know, different cultural institutions, but the real

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power is corporate. They are the ones who have a

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relationship with everyone. And look, you know, I'm no communist,

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should be clear at this point, but it is interesting

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the degree to which you know, capital is using immigration

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as sort of a hammer right to smash things they

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don't want. And it's interesting, you know, in our own

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in my own country, the history of the labor movement,

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you know, you have you know incidences like the you

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know the sort of wars that raged in Appalachia. Ah.

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The Trump card was always well, we'll get a new

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immigrant group from somewhere else. Now obviously, in an era

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before you know, the internet or air travel, that was

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much more difficult to do, whereas now and we've seen

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this this sort of pivot from illegal to legalized mass migration.

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It's the same thing. You know, you get that erosion

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of you know, labor, of people being able to you know,

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look at one another, form some kind of common bond

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and you know, fight for some sort of deal, right,

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come to some sort of conclusion. And it's interesting to

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me to see our own Republican party sort of squirm

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on that where they were catapulted into power on an

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anti immigration message. You know you, I'm sure you remember

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the sort of iconic photo of you know, some twenty

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something year old blonde girl with a T shirt that said,

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you know, mass deportations, like okay, that's crazy. You know

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where did that come from? And it's been interesting to

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watch some sort of pivot to well, no illegal immigration,

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but the flow still stays no matter what. That need

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to you know, eroad labor that need to basically you know,

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pull apart the kind of unchosen bonds that you know

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form a society, you know, to sort of turn everything

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into just this atomized mass that does benefit capital. That's

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part of the reason why there's so much money behind immigration,

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but also you know, for the government, it's beneficial to

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them as well, because then they become the arbiter between

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all these different groups. You can turn those into factions,

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you can turn those into different you know, wedge groups,

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and you know, as we've seen in you know, Minnesota,

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most recently with this sort of you know, Somali fraud ring.

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There's this interesting tipping point where, you know, an interest

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group becomes big enough where they don't need their old

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friends anymore. So I'm not sure if you caught this,

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but the Democratic mayor of Minneapolis very narrowly won his

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race against an explicit Somali candidate. And I think it's

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funny that kind of and maybe you can speak to

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this as well. Shut up and remember this an interview show.

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But there's this sort of tension between the kind of

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globalists and we could just call them communists, right, who

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are you know, very interested in immigration, interested in diversity,

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but also quite progressive on certain social issues, and the

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people that they bring in are not. So there's sort

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of an uneasy alliance until that client group gets to

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the point where it's like, well, I don't need you anymore.

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And I think that, you know, that sort of tipping

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point is going to be sort of interesting in America.

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We've already seen it in the UK with the breakdown

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of the relationship between their their Muslim population and you know,

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the Labor Party. But I'm curious, right, how do these

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you know, progressive globalist types, how do they manage their

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relationship with a group of people who have shall we say,

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very different you know, cultural values, right, ones that would

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be in a different context and most seen as far right. Sorry,

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I realized I threw a bunch of you there, ron it.

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Speaker 3: No, it's completely fine.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think an error we make is that the

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people who are advocating for mass migration don't actually look

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with the.

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Speaker 3: Consequences thereof at all.

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Speaker 2: If you look at one of my favorite things on

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X which I'm not on anymore for various reasons, but

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whenever someone in England says, you know, immigrants are welcome,

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someone just screenshots where they live. And then in Britain,

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for some reason, the census is racially defined. You can

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see in a burrow or in a neighborhood what percentage

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of the population is white or Indian or whatever the

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case might be. And inevitably, every time one says, every

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time someone says immigrants are welcome, we mustn't be so

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far right in banned immigration, those people then to live

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in ninety percent class white areas of England, so they

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don't actually set of the consequences of what they actually

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want but I mean there's arious things that you did

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say there. But the interesting thing to me is what

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is the point? What is the point of all this?

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And I think the point of all this is actually demoralization,

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and I mean in a real way. I read a

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book called The Strong Gods, which hopefully you've read or

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heard of at least, and the thesis of a strong

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God is that the lesson known from World War Two

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is that racially pure, ethnic, strong, homogeneous populations can explode

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into this frenzy of violence and you know, orgy of

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bloodshed like the Germans dirting world War two. So therefore

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the lesson from World War two is to create the

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open society. And the open society is this idea that

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in fact, it doesn't actually matter who you are, it's

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what you believe, right, it's your ability to assimilate into

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something that does not define your post. And this is

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the idea that immigrants are welcome as long as you assimilate.

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But they don't, right, they don't. In very small numbers,

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they do. So if you have an immigration over forty

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years and there's a million people coming over fifty years, assimilation.

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Speaker 3: Is very strong.

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Speaker 2: Less you led in the four million over the course

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of ten years. Assimilation is very low on purpose, and

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even then the terrorists in Western Europe second generation immigrants

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not so much for assimilation over there. But in essence,

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I think it is about demoralization. In essence, I think

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it is an attack on traditional societies in the place

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in the world we would call western or white. And

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I think there's a massive anti white motive behind all

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of this. Yeah, it is that nefarious to me. I've

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not forgot my white should I startut? Jereed Taylor not

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anything like that. But this only happens in society, that is,

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in the world of Mark Christian A. Wielmine White doesn't

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happen anywhere else. And I think we should interrogate, be

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a bit closer and realize or question why then is.

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Speaker 4: Now there's You're definitely correct there. So this story about

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the Somali fraud ring in Minnesota, we're not going to

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get into the forensic details I've got and risker who

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lived there for a long time coming on soon to

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really dig into it. There's been an interesting development with

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this kid nick I can't remember his last name, who's

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gone in as an investigative journalist and gone to all

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of these daycares, and what he finds is that many

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of them are registered to home addresses. They'll be you know,

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dozens of different companies registered to some luxury house with

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no children, but a whole lot of on paper children.

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So they're getting quite a lot of money from the government.

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So we exposed this, right he went in and say, okay,

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let's find this business. We'll see what's going on there.

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And the reaction has been quite fascinating. So to your

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point about this kind of you know, just anti white bigotry,

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Tim Walls basically came out and said this is white supremacy,

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asking if these government programs are being abused as white supremacist.

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And similarly, there was a I can't remember his name,

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but he was I believe it the Atlantic, and he

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responded to this and this is incorrect in multiple ways,

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but he said, you know, I can't wait until we

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watch the you know, the interaction between these annoying investigative

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journalists and stand your ground laws self defense laws in America.

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It's incorrect on one level, Minnesota does not have that law.

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He doesn't really know what he's talking about, but he

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is effectively advocating for this man to be murdered for

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looking into it, and that's fine, right, that is seen

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as completely and totally okay. And one of the interesting things.

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And Sam Francis's essay in Arco Tyranny remains completely undefeated,

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perhaps one of the best essays ever written. And this is,

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you know, very much the death of the idea of

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effectively like liberal law, the idea that everyone is supposed

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to follow the same rules, that part of integrating into

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America is accepting the way we do things here, and

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that that fiction is all the dead. The only people

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in this country who actually have to follow the laws

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are the people whose parents built it, right, they are

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the ones who are under this massive, you know, administrative state,

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this massive you know, it's just overreaching intelligence apparatus that

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applies to you. But if you're someone who's been here

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for fifteen years, who's you know, defrauding the government, well

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then you will have journalists saying you should shoot people

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who you know, question how you got that money. You

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have the governor of the state who you know you

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have stolen money from directly you know, saying that you know,

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any investigation is white supremacy, and local news basically saying

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already like there's no interest in prosecuting these people. There's

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simply too many of them. And you compare that to

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you know, the reaction to our you know, the sort

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of bizarre January sixth, where you have you know, eighty

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year old grandmothers getting dragged out by the FBI, or

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you know, even if you have the temerity to stand

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in front of an abortion clinic with a sign that says,

286
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maybe don't kill your baby, well we'll arrest you. And

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I'm curious, you know, there's sort of a narco tyranny

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where you know, the clients of the state are given

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almost you know, carte blanche to do whatever they want

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and to steal from the population that you know actually

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calls this place home. I'm curious, do you see that

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same sort of relationship to you know, law enforcement in

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South Africa or do you have the advantage of having

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a government that is almost too incompetent to.

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Speaker 3: Pull that off. It's almost the letter.

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Speaker 2: So just to give some some some reference, I used

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to work in the government as a chief of stars

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to a minister. So a minister here is what you

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would call the secretary. You have a secretary of Agriculture me.

300
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I would for the Minister of Agriculture for a close

301
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to you. But I made my name on YouTube, othered

302
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a lot of media things. People don't like me, especially

303
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in main street press, and when I got the job

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in government, they came after me like a ton of

305
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breaks and or basically forced in you buy me, which

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it did a year later. So I do know the

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feeling of that immense pressure that builds up around these

308
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I mean it is brown enveloped journalist. Let's just be

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honest with ourselves. There they serve one master and say

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if you're not to enfee not me. But in South

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Africa you have an almost completely in contant police force

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that is basically unable to prosecute anyone meaningfully for whatever

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reason whatsoever. But if you go back ten years in

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sooth Africa, there was a very famous case. I was

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seventy eight year old white woman in Durban, which is

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a city on the coast open King of the and

317
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it's quite well known That's African's tendency for littering, for

318
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throwing trash out in public areas is quite well known.

319
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And then she just made a comments is like it's

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you know, it's terrible to see all this trash on

321
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the beach. It's almost like monkeys have been here. It

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was hounded to her death by the judicial system, by journalists,

323
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by police.

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Speaker 3: She was seventy eight.

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Speaker 2: I mean, she posed no threat to anyone whatsoever, and

326
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then was petty Sparrow and I completely destroyed her life.

327
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She died two years later, I assume from the stress

328
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of it. But it was in the news all the

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time for a figure of speech, right, for a figure

330
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of speech. But nothing will ever happen.

331
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Speaker 3: Just mentioned it.

332
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Speaker 4: You live in a place where there actually are monkeys around,

333
00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:56,680
Like this is irrelevant, This is a relevant point of comparison.

334
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That like not at all in a racial context. I

335
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mean like as an animal, right, yes, yes, of course, yeah,

336
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so like that, that's even as and look this, we've

337
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had a very similar situations in America where common phrase

338
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is you know again like using that, using monkey as

339
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just a turn of phrase has happened multiple times where

340
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that becomes, you know, a major racialized incident, and at

341
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least on you know, North America, it's like, well, we

342
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don't have any of them around, so it's slightly more

343
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unusual to bring that up. But it's stupid it's completely

344
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and totally stupid and very clearly, you know an example

345
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that making an example of some right you will be

346
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you know, dragged into the court of public opinion to

347
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have your life ruined, which.

348
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Speaker 2: Is what they which is what they did with me

349
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as obstensibly someone who's white to join the government, which

350
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is which is a rarity in and of itself. But

351
00:19:50,799 --> 00:19:53,720
there have been many politicians I've been calling for genocide

352
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against minorities, openly calling for genocide against Jews or Africanas

353
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or against whatever the case be, open hate speech against

354
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various groups, including including gays, including whoever you name it.

355
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There's always been a politician some way that they have

356
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expressed themselves h fully, which is actually a crime in

357
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our country, which I don't think there should be. But anyway,

358
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whereas I said, black people on a liberal on x

359
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and that was the most racist statement they could find.

360
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Speaker 4: So the double standards are obvious. Yeah, that's a maybe

361
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enough set on that point. So when we talk about

362
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and you mentioned the fact that the police is completely

363
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and totally incompetent, you've already mentioned as well, you know,

364
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the the littering and the fact that you know, many

365
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people are forced to sort of, you know, fortify their homes.

366
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How recent of a development is that? Is this something

367
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that happened very quickly? Was this kind of slow growing

368
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lack of security? And what is it la like living

369
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in a truly low trust society where you have to

370
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take your own physical security into consideration like that.

371
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Speaker 2: So I grew up in a place that is about

372
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an hour away from a big city, growing up when

373
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I reached South Africa at the age of three till

374
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about thirteen. I grew up on what's called a plot,

375
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which is basically a small farm, but we were not farmers.

376
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We went to the city to work what my parents

377
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did at least, And I can remember in nineteen ninety two,

378
00:21:28,519 --> 00:21:32,119
nine eighty three, the barbeyer came up, the e liter

379
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gates came up, the alarm came up, guns were in

380
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the house. So I've always known South Africa as a

381
00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:43,480
load trust society, as a house being a fortified compound.

382
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,160
It's very It's not a new development, but I think

383
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,440
it happened very quickly post nineteen ninety so it's the

384
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:53,480
only way I know.

385
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:54,599
Speaker 3: Of South Africa.

386
00:21:54,759 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 2: In fact, if you drive to small towns in what's

387
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,400
called the Karow, which is the interior of the country,

388
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:04,279
which is a desert. You still see no fences, no nothing,

389
00:22:04,279 --> 00:22:07,519
and it's very strange. I'm like these people are like, okay,

390
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,039
it's like to be known. My crime is quite bad.

391
00:22:10,039 --> 00:22:13,839
But obviously in some areas it's not. So it always

392
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,680
has been that way. In fact, you see it in Brazil,

393
00:22:15,759 --> 00:22:17,880
you see it in South America quite a lot, so

394
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,079
it's not it's not unique to us by any means.

395
00:22:20,599 --> 00:22:23,559
And the fact that we have to do that and

396
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,079
spend quite a quite a lot of capital and money

397
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,000
on our houses. And it's not just security. I have

398
00:22:29,079 --> 00:22:31,119
to have my own water because the water supply is

399
00:22:31,319 --> 00:22:36,680
irregulars to be, to use the term colloquially, And I

400
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:41,200
also am off brewed in terms of electrical power. I've

401
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,480
got many solar panels and many batteries and I can

402
00:22:45,519 --> 00:22:51,079
basically run off what I produce on my house, which is.

403
00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 3: That's annoying.

404
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 2: It costs a lot of money to do, but it

405
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,319
is one of those gratifying things. Over that I'm very

406
00:22:59,319 --> 00:23:02,000
well prepared well anything that might materialize in the future,

407
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,960
whatever that might be. It's not done because I'm a

408
00:23:05,039 --> 00:23:07,599
prev it's done just to have a quality of life.

409
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,359
I have children at home, I've got a wife at

410
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,400
I don't want to blackouts, I don't want to run

411
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,240
out of waterme I can just do it all by myself.

412
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,039
Don't need permission, I don't need a license. You can

413
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,920
just literally do things in my country. And that's why

414
00:23:22,519 --> 00:23:23,920
it's such an effective.

415
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,279
Speaker 4: It's an interesting thing because you know, when we're talking

416
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:33,400
about this growing South africanization, one of the relatively recent developments,

417
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,000
and this is confined to certain locations, predominantly city cycle

418
00:23:37,079 --> 00:23:39,839
Los Angeles, where you have a very wealthy population and

419
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,319
also uh some of the most insane uh rulership in

420
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,559
the nation. Where you are starting to see the growth

421
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:52,160
of private security. Whereas, really, as long as there has

422
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,359
been a police force in America, which is in the

423
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,599
grand scheme of things, relatively recent development, but still that

424
00:23:57,759 --> 00:24:02,640
was entirely socialized. You could depend on picking up your

425
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,920
phone and there would be someone there to protect you

426
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,000
if needed, free of charge. Obviously you pay taxes, but

427
00:24:08,039 --> 00:24:13,000
that's a different, different discussion. Whereas now we are seeing

428
00:24:13,079 --> 00:24:16,519
the birth of private security. You started to see the

429
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,039
initial I guess, kind of run of this during the

430
00:24:20,039 --> 00:24:23,240
summer of Floyd and these sweeping riots, and all of

431
00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:25,640
a sudden, even at places not far away from where

432
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,519
I live, which is in a nice enough area, they're

433
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:33,359
full time private security at certain areas and certain neighborhoods.

434
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,160
All right, that's relatively unique, but you'd see it every

435
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,599
once in a while, and then it started to creep

436
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,960
to restaurants and bars, like, wait a minute, this is

437
00:24:43,319 --> 00:24:45,359
there's a guy wearing a whole lot of kit and

438
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,839
maybe it's a little bit ridiculous and he's over prepared

439
00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:50,640
for what he's doing, but still there's a man there

440
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,759
whose job it is to inflict violence should the neees arise.

441
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,440
And the people running the business think that that is

442
00:24:56,559 --> 00:24:59,240
enough of a concern that they've devoted money to it.

443
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,119
And now it's got into celebrities, right, wealthy people who

444
00:25:03,319 --> 00:25:05,559
you know, have a lot of you know, nice things

445
00:25:05,599 --> 00:25:09,200
and want to protect that, and so they're going outside

446
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:10,240
traditional channels.

447
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 3: I know that.

448
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 4: You you mentioned, uh, you mentioned, you know, you inept police.

449
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,079
That's I think an interesting development in the sort of

450
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,319
the decay of trust in a society where the you know,

451
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,720
the civic institutions are no longer trusted. I've talked to

452
00:25:27,799 --> 00:25:30,480
our mutual friend Canine Reaper a number of times about

453
00:25:30,519 --> 00:25:33,039
the actual kind of nuts and bolts of you know,

454
00:25:33,079 --> 00:25:37,279
private security in your country. But what does that look like?

455
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:39,640
What does it look like when you can no longer

456
00:25:39,759 --> 00:25:42,920
depend on you know, physical protection. I know you mentioned

457
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,519
being off grid, right, the utilities themselves are not dependable.

458
00:25:47,079 --> 00:25:50,880
But can you, I guess, quantify and explain that relationship

459
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,759
for people who are perhaps unused to it.

460
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 2: Certainly so in the area where I alvin, Johannesburg, which

461
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,359
is the largest city in in the country. I think

462
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:04,519
there's million people in the creator region urbanized, so very big.

463
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,240
In the area where I live, it's a very nice

464
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:14,160
area within Johannesburg. Every it covers let's say, roughly four

465
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:20,440
square miles. There are three cars pickup trucks with two

466
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,680
men inside, one of the shotgun, one of the L

467
00:26:24,759 --> 00:26:28,440
fifteen type rifle, a full the troof best and these

468
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:33,119
three cars and six men two patrols every single day,

469
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,160
multiple times a day, twenty four hours a day, turning

470
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,160
sixty five days of the year. On my on my

471
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,160
car keys there's a button which I press. Those same

472
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,559
men are at my front door within about a minute.

473
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:53,039
IDs be. The police station is half a mile down

474
00:26:53,079 --> 00:26:55,960
the road. I walk there and I speak to the officers,

475
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,599
mainly to do administrative things that they're allowed to stamp

476
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,000
dot eumans to show there's not a forgery or something

477
00:27:02,039 --> 00:27:06,279
like that. The police are not incompetent because they are

478
00:27:06,519 --> 00:27:09,799
bad at their jobs. The police are incompetent because there's

479
00:27:09,799 --> 00:27:13,720
no running vehicles. The radios are from nineteen ninety eight,

480
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,079
the weapons system is from nineteen eighty eight. They are

481
00:27:18,079 --> 00:27:22,799
allowed to practice on the shooting range once a year

482
00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:26,559
and only ten bullets at a time. Everything else they

483
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,880
have to pay for, on top of the fact that

484
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,640
they're not well paid, on top of the fact that

485
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,319
the toilets at the police station don't work, on top

486
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,880
of the fact just cascades. The people buy and large

487
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,880
are decent people. They want to try to do what

488
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,079
they can. But when eighty seven of the money is

489
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,279
stolen by cronies, Bedell is actually put into the system

490
00:27:49,319 --> 00:27:53,200
which allowed police officers too. I can do the jobs

491
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,119
properties So in terms of security, that's what it feels like.

492
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,480
There's a patrol. I know everyone of by heart. I

493
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,000
can call them on the cell phone. They're in my

494
00:28:01,079 --> 00:28:03,640
gate within a minute if I need them, which is

495
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,599
never the case. I I've got various stepends. I carry

496
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,759
one every day with me. My wife and I track

497
00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:14,839
each other on our phones if we go out just

498
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,000
to make sure that she gets two issues going properly,

499
00:28:17,079 --> 00:28:20,119
or I'll drop you off or we go together. So

500
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,640
I mean, that's really the sort of low trust society.

501
00:28:24,759 --> 00:28:27,519
I mean in my area, I can walk, really, which

502
00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:29,440
I do. I take my kids for a walk. We

503
00:28:29,519 --> 00:28:32,279
go to the public park which is privately run so

504
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,960
it's very nice. And the other park a mile down

505
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,920
the road is overrun by homeless immigrants drug users, so

506
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,400
we can't use that one. But the only difference between

507
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,559
the two is these people here give a shit. These

508
00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:48,599
others do not. And if you and in Africa and

509
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,960
especially South Africa, if you don't care, it'll just get

510
00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:56,799
taken away from you. So you can have a job,

511
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,680
you can have a family, you can have all the

512
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,480
normal responsibilities people have, but you need to have all

513
00:29:01,519 --> 00:29:04,799
these other responsiveness as well, just so you can function

514
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,240
as a normal twenty first century family in essence. So

515
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,279
that's a lot of work, but it also is very

516
00:29:12,319 --> 00:29:13,079
rewarding as well.

517
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,039
Speaker 4: It's an interesting dynamic, and I'm glad you brought that up,

518
00:29:18,119 --> 00:29:20,119
that you can have it if you care about it.

519
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,880
I've noticed this where I live with education, that I

520
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,119
talk to older people, you know, many of whom are

521
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,880
quite conservative, quite religiously devout, and for them, the idea

522
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,920
that public school, you know, going to a government run

523
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,440
school is a dangerous thing. They almost cannot comprehend it.

524
00:29:41,799 --> 00:29:44,279
To them, it is just what you did. And so

525
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,240
when they see younger people, their children and their grandchildren

526
00:29:48,039 --> 00:29:50,039
worrying about, well, how are we going to do this,

527
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,880
you can see a sort of dissonance there. They don't

528
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,279
understand it because they lived in a society where you

529
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,359
could simply default do whatever one does, and that was

530
00:30:01,599 --> 00:30:04,160
a safe and responsible thing to do with their children,

531
00:30:04,359 --> 00:30:07,519
whereas now, you know, in addition to you know, the

532
00:30:08,319 --> 00:30:12,359
Joway say LGBTQ element, which is very much present, an

533
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,279
element of you know, just lack of physical security. I mean,

534
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,319
there was a kid killed with a knife by you know,

535
00:30:19,319 --> 00:30:22,240
two other students not too long ago, and that is

536
00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:25,720
surely an extreme example, but the level of physical violence

537
00:30:25,799 --> 00:30:29,079
is almost like a prison. All of a sudden that

538
00:30:29,119 --> 00:30:33,039
becomes something where if you want your children to be educated. Well,

539
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,880
that is no longer something you can default into. You

540
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,039
have to accept, as you've said, a whole number of responsibilities.

541
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,759
You have to either make more money, you have to

542
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,480
educate them yourselves, you have to organize with other parents.

543
00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:49,079
And it's still doable entirely, doesn't even necessarily have to

544
00:30:49,079 --> 00:30:52,839
be directly very expensive. But it's an interesting kind of

545
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,559
step down on the level of civilization, right that those

546
00:30:57,599 --> 00:31:00,960
institutions are no longer what it says on the tin,

547
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,519
so to speak. And look, you know, I'm not, you know,

548
00:31:03,559 --> 00:31:05,920
the biggest fan of public education. That's a conversation for

549
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,480
another day, but it is interesting that point of like,

550
00:31:08,519 --> 00:31:11,880
well you can still have it, you just have to

551
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,440
personalize you yourself has to take care of many of

552
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,359
those things. Similarly, as you've said with power, I live

553
00:31:19,359 --> 00:31:22,480
in a place where power is completely and totally reliable.

554
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,039
It's not something I ever have to think about. In

555
00:31:26,079 --> 00:31:28,440
your case, you can still have it, but it's no

556
00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:32,000
longer something you can depend on. And it's interesting. And

557
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,039
the reason I brought up older people is because you know,

558
00:31:35,079 --> 00:31:37,759
many of these older people are you know, wealthier, just

559
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,400
you know, it's how it works. Many of them are

560
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,519
quite progressive, which is also interesting. And so you see

561
00:31:43,559 --> 00:31:48,400
that they have been throughout their lives completely and totally

562
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,079
insulated from the consequences of their beliefs. They went to

563
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,759
a school pre nineteen sixty four which was run by

564
00:31:55,799 --> 00:31:59,160
a certain set of cultural values. And so now when

565
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,519
they hear about you know, X y Z plan to

566
00:32:02,039 --> 00:32:04,880
you know, diversify the school or to you know, change

567
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,359
how offenses are processed so that we can't kick kids

568
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,000
out because everyone deserves a chance for them. They're thinking

569
00:32:12,079 --> 00:32:15,960
back to a world which doesn't exist anymore, and for

570
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,839
the past fifty year skid of things getting worse, it

571
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,920
was never in front of them. And similarly, you know,

572
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:26,119
with you know, as regards you know, Somali's or any

573
00:32:26,119 --> 00:32:29,160
other kind of large immigrant group, many of these people

574
00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:32,480
do not bear the consequences of their actions. And so

575
00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:35,079
I'm curious, do you see a dynamic similar to that

576
00:32:35,119 --> 00:32:37,480
in your culture where there are people who have never

577
00:32:37,519 --> 00:32:40,839
been forced to live with the consequences of their beliefs

578
00:32:41,079 --> 00:32:44,279
and so live in this sort of you know, blessed bubble, right,

579
00:32:44,319 --> 00:32:47,680
They live in this sort of garden type environment. If

580
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,240
you see what I'm getting at their Roman.

581
00:32:50,039 --> 00:32:52,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean imosently my neighbors, to be honest with you,

582
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,720
and it tends to be a white woman for some reason,

583
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,839
you know, the types who would vote for Nelson Mandela

584
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,240
and then then complain about the arter effects of that,

585
00:33:03,799 --> 00:33:06,279
so that the most vocal on the sort of neighborhood

586
00:33:06,279 --> 00:33:10,559
groups saying other powers out again. And then I say, listen,

587
00:33:10,599 --> 00:33:12,359
you live in a house worth half a million dollars,

588
00:33:12,359 --> 00:33:14,720
I'm sure you can afford ten thousand dollars to have

589
00:33:14,759 --> 00:33:16,920
an inverter or a solar panel or something like that.

590
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:21,880
And just asking that question is draws people into a

591
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,599
complete rage.

592
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,519
Speaker 3: The people that you have describe.

593
00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: So the old people in my country are not a

594
00:33:27,279 --> 00:33:29,759
problem at all, for the most part, that all the

595
00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:30,720
people are not either.

596
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,119
Speaker 3: The problem is my generation.

597
00:33:33,559 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 2: I'm thirty seven, so I was five years old in

598
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,519
nineteen hnenty four when those elections came around. But the

599
00:33:41,559 --> 00:33:43,440
people who are ten years older than me, they still

600
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,200
hold onto this idea that the promise of ninety four

601
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,640
is still something that can happen. And it was it was,

602
00:33:52,119 --> 00:33:55,200
you know, it was this prosperous diverse what's called the

603
00:33:55,319 --> 00:33:58,599
rainbow nation, where twelve distinct ethnic groups can stand out,

604
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,480
come together and define what just skids.

605
00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 3: Good luck.

606
00:34:03,559 --> 00:34:06,359
Speaker 2: Luck with those fantasies. But but they tend to be

607
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:12,880
the most hostile to any form of of of self

608
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,559
reliance or self interest by ordinary citizens, like even in

609
00:34:17,599 --> 00:34:21,280
the most basic way. For example, I had a campaign

610
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,960
many years ago about in my country, rape and jenner

611
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,159
based violence or real things in terms of men on women.

612
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,079
Speaker 3: It's a real thing. It's prevalent and that sustain.

613
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 2: So an idea was, why why not just teach girls

614
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,800
it's cool to shoot guns or maybe issue them as

615
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,719
stet firearm license as soon as they're turn eighteen. Gives

616
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,760
them more power, more leverage. It's a great force multiplier

617
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:54,559
against the stronger men. And the outrage at this was

618
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,920
hysterical at the time, but in essence the traditional was

619
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,360
known men speed better and I was liked none. But

620
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,159
why I just should rape this in the head like

621
00:35:05,679 --> 00:35:10,360
believe me, behavior will change like almost immediately. The campaign

622
00:35:10,559 --> 00:35:16,480
was a bit tiny and cheek, but it The people

623
00:35:16,519 --> 00:35:18,239
that are for the most are of course the ones

624
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,000
who are not who don't have that outrage. The people

625
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,679
stuff for the most, of course, are were living in

626
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,639
the pre urban areas, who are trying to get up

627
00:35:26,639 --> 00:35:28,199
in the world but can't find a job because there's

628
00:35:28,199 --> 00:35:31,519
no economic growth for thirty years. Very few people talk

629
00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:33,960
to those are very few of the elites or people

630
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,960
in my neighborhood actually speak to them except to give

631
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,400
them their jobs as maids or gardeners or something like that.

632
00:35:39,559 --> 00:35:41,880
But in God forbid, you just have a cup of

633
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:47,719
tea with them and let them explain what their challenges are. Because,

634
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,800
as always, the best political analysts of my country are

635
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,280
uber drivers and working class people, because they understand the

636
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,960
price pressures. They understand inflation, they understand budgets, they understand

637
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,039
what things cost. They can see the degradation of the

638
00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:08,280
public services, the public infrastructure, the public trust. They used

639
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:09,920
to take a train three years ago, now that to

640
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,599
take a taxi at three times the price for the

641
00:36:12,639 --> 00:36:16,280
same route. They understand the problems. But once you refuse

642
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:21,320
to understand it on liberals in my age category, because

643
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,239
they don't have to limit the consequences thereof. So it's

644
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,840
certainly the same scenario as you have with your boomers,

645
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:32,039
whereas our boomers tend to be like quite based good reason.

646
00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 4: Well, and I think I think that's an interesting relationship

647
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,760
because ultimately the people you're describing have roughly the same

648
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,840
relationship to your nation's cultural revolution. You know, they were

649
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:50,360
existed in a certain age range of that incident. The uh,

650
00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:55,239
it's funny as well, you know here that there's that

651
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,840
same suspicion of self reliance, which I think is very interesting.

652
00:37:00,159 --> 00:37:02,519
You know, the idea that if you are interested in,

653
00:37:03,559 --> 00:37:07,400
you know, not even necessarily prepping, but having something as

654
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,239
sort of a safety net for yourself or for your family,

655
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,000
that is viewed with a great deal of suspicion. There's

656
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,159
something wrong with you. Why don't you trust this system?

657
00:37:16,559 --> 00:37:19,000
You obviously saw a great deal of that in our

658
00:37:19,199 --> 00:37:22,119
medical system a while back. For a word that I

659
00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:24,320
already have a strike for mentioning on YouTube, so we

660
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,880
won't say it. But it is an interesting thing there, right.

661
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,280
The idea is that at the same moment that the

662
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,400
system is sort of crumbling and losing its ability to

663
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,239
make good on its promises, right, losing its ability to

664
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:44,119
fulfill its end of the social contract, any any dissent,

665
00:37:44,199 --> 00:37:46,280
even in a minor kind of passive way of like

666
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,440
well i'll have this just in case, is viewed as

667
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,199
a sign that you were some sort of you know,

668
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,639
paranoid lunatic, you know, out on the fringes of society.

669
00:37:55,119 --> 00:37:57,760
And I get it again from those people who grew

670
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,199
up when everything worked. I understand it. It's rational even

671
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,760
you know, from their perspective, even if you information has changed.

672
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,920
But for me, it's particularly baffling from the people who

673
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,800
are suffering the consequences of you know, a system crumbling,

674
00:38:13,199 --> 00:38:14,679
you know who, out of one side of their mouth

675
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,559
will complain about all of the social ills I'm sure

676
00:38:17,599 --> 00:38:19,920
you've heard about, but then on the other being like, oh, well,

677
00:38:20,039 --> 00:38:22,039
what are you some sort of you know, gun nut

678
00:38:22,119 --> 00:38:24,519
lunatic for you know, having a little bit of dried

679
00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:27,519
food in the basement. It's an interesting it's an interesting

680
00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:31,679
thing there. And it's especially irritating to me when it

681
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,480
is someone who views themselves as a rebel right, who

682
00:38:35,599 --> 00:38:39,559
views themselves as someone who is speaking truth to power,

683
00:38:39,559 --> 00:38:42,400
a phrase you might have heard before, and then the

684
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,199
moment when power says hey, this is what you should think,

685
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,280
the switch flips and they're completely and totally, you know,

686
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:53,880
in in lockstep. So I want to pivot back to that,

687
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:55,559
if we can use this term, right, this sort of

688
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,880
South African shit lib you mentioned that, you know, there's

689
00:39:00,199 --> 00:39:04,440
that even asking about solar panels, something that you know

690
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,840
here is sort of progressive coded is seen as you know,

691
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:08,599
an a front.

692
00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:10,159
Speaker 3: Why is that?

693
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,519
Speaker 4: Is it basically that even kind of passively, you're signaling

694
00:39:13,559 --> 00:39:16,039
that not all as well in the country, like what's

695
00:39:16,119 --> 00:39:17,480
the what's the explanation there?

696
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 2: So far a day lade ago you would be seen as, oh,

697
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,920
you just don't trust the black government, right, so of

698
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,199
course you're trying to do as much as you can

699
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,239
to insulate yourself against black governance because obviously you're racist.

700
00:39:33,159 --> 00:39:34,840
But I mean the same people who made that argument

701
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:36,679
got side of panels five years ago, of course.

702
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,599
Speaker 3: So now they have side the panels and private.

703
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,199
Speaker 2: Medical insurance, and the kids go to private schools, and

704
00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:46,320
they holiday in the USA three times a year of course, right,

705
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,639
and they have security guard ass out their house. So thankfully,

706
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,760
even the ship lifers don't trust the system in my country,

707
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,920
like they really don't. They really want to trust a

708
00:39:56,159 --> 00:39:59,400
system someway and they always say, well, we could be

709
00:39:59,559 --> 00:40:04,199
like Norway or Denmark or you know, other extremely white,

710
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:08,639
homogeneous societies. And my answer way is well, yeah, we

711
00:40:08,679 --> 00:40:12,239
tried that. It ended in nineteen four, So don't say

712
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,559
it too loudly, but if.

713
00:40:14,519 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 4: You were, you were globally discouraged from that experiment.

714
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 3: And I'll lear to that. Yeah, pretty much so. But

715
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,079
there is this idea that.

716
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 2: There must be a black government, or my arguments, it's

717
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,679
argument made by the sort of the chattering media ship

718
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:33,400
in the class.

719
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,159
Speaker 3: Right, we're eighty percent black.

720
00:40:35,199 --> 00:40:39,159
Speaker 2: We need these people to be aspired, So therefore we

721
00:40:39,199 --> 00:40:43,679
need black leadership everywhere, including incorporate, including every school, including

722
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,800
in every political party, and especially the governments. Of course,

723
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,679
why you had your say for forty years you must

724
00:40:52,679 --> 00:40:55,760
just sort of keep quiet now by your taxes like

725
00:40:56,039 --> 00:40:58,519
like good little financial slaves. But at the end of

726
00:40:58,559 --> 00:41:00,960
the day, like you had your to you screwed it

727
00:41:01,039 --> 00:41:05,639
up because untold damage. So therefore you're basically a second

728
00:41:05,679 --> 00:41:12,719
class citizen. That was the feeling, let's say, five years ago.

729
00:41:14,039 --> 00:41:17,000
Now what you're finding is, I think people have finally

730
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:23,000
lost that last drop of hope that the revolutionary government

731
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,880
of natal to four, which is that aftercon National Congress

732
00:41:26,199 --> 00:41:28,679
has any hope to have changed this country for the better.

733
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,159
And I think even its most ardent supporters can see

734
00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:36,400
that that is not in fact the case, and ironically,

735
00:41:36,519 --> 00:41:42,039
in a country with such low economic growth, such crime,

736
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:48,519
you know, such deprivation, is no revolutionary zeal. I'm not

737
00:41:48,559 --> 00:41:52,440
afraid of turning into Venezuela tomorrow. I'm not afraid of

738
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:57,119
becoming Zimbabwe tomorrow because by and large, and this is

739
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:03,760
something that maybe my previous staging guests on the show

740
00:42:04,159 --> 00:42:07,000
and I will disagree with, but by and large I

741
00:42:07,119 --> 00:42:10,840
find the local start of the population, irrespective of race,

742
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,679
other than the ship of whites. They're conservative people. They

743
00:42:15,679 --> 00:42:19,079
want to come to that works. They're not revolutionaries. They

744
00:42:19,079 --> 00:42:22,400
don't need a utopia. They don't have these grand ideas

745
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,400
on how to fix things. They just want to have

746
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,559
a job, make sure that their kids get educated properly,

747
00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:29,920
make sure they can afford to put food on the table,

748
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,360
and hopefully go on a holiday once every two years,

749
00:42:32,599 --> 00:42:34,840
and hopefully get a new car one every five years.

750
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,760
These are not people who lived in the clouds. They

751
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,320
live in reality. They're deeply pragmatic people, and I think

752
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,960
it's reflected in the fact that despite all the troubles

753
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,920
we as a country have gone through, there's been very

754
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:57,840
little revolutionary zeal in that sort of violent, pornographic way

755
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,639
that we've seen in other areas of the world. It's

756
00:43:00,679 --> 00:43:02,800
been been than a lot of that. And the hard

757
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,360
lived parties that have been in control for the past

758
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,880
fifty years are declining in support at a very rapid rate.

759
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,199
Wants more replaced, I don't know, but it's an interesting

760
00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:20,280
trend that not many people are are announcing for some

761
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:20,960
reason or other.

762
00:43:22,519 --> 00:43:25,679
Speaker 4: That is an interesting thing because, you know.

763
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 3: You get a lot of.

764
00:43:28,639 --> 00:43:33,199
Speaker 4: Obviously, it is fairly rare for South Africa to break

765
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:37,280
into the mainstream press in America, but it gets a

766
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,239
lot more play and the kind of right wing press

767
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:44,199
for obvious reasons, and you get a lot of This

768
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,800
may be a stupid phrase, but sort of like e

769
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,000
Ff Doomerism, you know, the idea that you know it

770
00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:54,360
is going to become, you know, another Zimbabwe. But I

771
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,760
think that that portrait you're painting right of this, this

772
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,559
sort of everything is so shit that no one really

773
00:44:01,599 --> 00:44:04,719
cares enough to have a revolution is kind of an

774
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,199
interesting thing, and it sort of a stake through a heart,

775
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,440
through the heart of the kind of Marxist conception right

776
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,960
where it's this you know, you will mobilize the great

777
00:44:13,039 --> 00:44:16,639
working class because you know it is people longing for

778
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:18,960
this kind of utopian freedom and it's like, well, at

779
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,960
a certain point, like people just want to have a

780
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,559
normal life that you know, meets you know, kind of

781
00:44:23,559 --> 00:44:27,639
base functions. And yeah, I hadn't heard that before, but

782
00:44:27,639 --> 00:44:30,599
it does make sense, right, given the kind of variables

783
00:44:30,599 --> 00:44:36,320
at play. I'm curious what does because the last time

784
00:44:36,679 --> 00:44:40,639
you know, we really you guys hit our news was

785
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:47,800
all in relations to USAID and tariffs both. So what

786
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,079
has been the coverage in South Africa of you know,

787
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:54,840
AID being at least, you know, on paper suspended? And

788
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:56,119
why does that matter?

789
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 3: Right?

790
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 4: Why does your con to what degree does your country

791
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,320
depend on you?

792
00:45:01,679 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 3: Four and eight?

793
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,559
Speaker 4: Because you know, at least compared to the rest of

794
00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:07,400
the continent, you know, it seems as if it's a

795
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:12,679
developed ish country, So to what degree is that a factor?

796
00:45:13,199 --> 00:45:16,800
And then also what does what do the upcoming years

797
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:18,599
look like for South Africa?

798
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 3: Right?

799
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 4: What direction is your nation headed? Is it just sort

800
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,000
of this like eternal you know, a n C kind

801
00:45:25,039 --> 00:45:27,559
of in sertification where it's like they're stuck in power,

802
00:45:27,639 --> 00:45:30,679
they can't leave and things are slowly declining, Like, so,

803
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,440
what what's happening there? I realized a very open ended question,

804
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,880
but you know you're probably my best source for it.

805
00:45:37,039 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 2: I having to answer is and before I mean before

806
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,199
this podcast ends, and I hope more people are listening

807
00:45:41,199 --> 00:45:44,239
to it at this age. So Africa, I'm not living

808
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:48,599
here because I'm some sort of doc tourists like you know,

809
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,880
like look at me. I'm living in like Chernobyl, and

810
00:45:52,119 --> 00:45:53,480
you know I want to make money from it that

811
00:45:53,519 --> 00:45:57,440
I live a great life. I love a phenomenal life. Okay,

812
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,159
I can. We have world class food, We'll class nature.

813
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:05,880
People are friendly, good friends. My family is here. My

814
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,039
house is huge and cost very little compared to the

815
00:46:09,079 --> 00:46:12,079
sort of an average American house. I've got much more

816
00:46:12,119 --> 00:46:15,079
space than any of my European family. They come here

817
00:46:15,159 --> 00:46:18,000
to relax. It's a great country to live in if

818
00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:20,519
you have the resources, if you have the mindset, and

819
00:46:22,199 --> 00:46:25,119
even if you don't, it's still a great country. Crime

820
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,679
is an issue. There are ways to mitigate that, but

821
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:32,599
all the rest easily liverable, and I think more people should.

822
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,039
I need to visit before thinking of some sort of

823
00:46:35,159 --> 00:46:37,679
Mad Max apocalypse, because that it certainly is not.

824
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 3: But onto your question.

825
00:46:40,159 --> 00:46:43,559
Speaker 2: Us aid in terms of not usaid, but aid was

826
00:46:43,679 --> 00:46:47,639
given by George Bush the second to combat AIDS. So

827
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,639
AIDS was a so Afoka was I think that the

828
00:46:50,639 --> 00:46:54,800
country with the most AIDS per capita for various reasons

829
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:59,480
which I'm not scientifically ever looked into, but basically as

830
00:47:00,039 --> 00:47:03,239
it's like horrific sech practices basicly and sorry, maybe you

831
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,920
should censor that or not to show YouTube will allow

832
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:10,000
that to stand. So George Brush the second and Finnly

833
00:47:10,039 --> 00:47:15,519
Republicans residents in general have been very friendly towards South

834
00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:18,159
Africa in particular, much more than Democrats.

835
00:47:18,599 --> 00:47:19,599
Speaker 3: Democrats love to.

836
00:47:19,519 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 2: Bring in DEI even though we convented it, or they

837
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:27,960
want to bring in whatever, more like LGBT into whatever,

838
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,000
and we just say no, our country doesn't do LGBT.

839
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,519
It allowed to e strike to gays are allowed to

840
00:47:35,519 --> 00:47:38,119
be around, and it has been a thing called gay

841
00:47:38,199 --> 00:47:42,239
marriage is two thousand and six but nothing. It doesn't

842
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,519
really matter, but not at all in the consciousness of

843
00:47:45,559 --> 00:47:49,000
the people. So in turn fall we had aide to

844
00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:53,000
combat hid eights and that's basically been a racket for

845
00:47:53,119 --> 00:47:57,039
the past twenty years, which quickly divets it into COVID.

846
00:47:57,159 --> 00:48:00,239
At the time, if I'm a kid, say that and

847
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,280
basically it's the same sort of mechanism lots of money

848
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:05,840
to give a lot of drugs to a lot of

849
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,639
people to solve the crisis, and all that was taken

850
00:48:09,639 --> 00:48:14,320
away very quickly last year when USID shut down. And

851
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:19,559
I haven't seen any detrimental effects whatsoever. I know some

852
00:48:19,599 --> 00:48:23,119
trans clinic closed or only one in the country, so

853
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,280
I don't know we had one until we closed, So

854
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:33,400
I I only see upsides to aid ending to my country.

855
00:48:35,159 --> 00:48:40,159
And as for tariffs and things like that, thankfully, our

856
00:48:40,199 --> 00:48:46,239
government has been in public that like Donald Trump is

857
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,239
being asked, are Donald Trump's being difficult? But in private

858
00:48:49,559 --> 00:48:51,119
but like, okay, we really need to make a deal.

859
00:48:51,199 --> 00:48:53,440
So it looks like we have bypassed most of the

860
00:48:53,519 --> 00:48:57,039
tariffs in terms of had exceptions for most of the

861
00:48:57,079 --> 00:48:59,519
things that we export to the US. So there have

862
00:48:59,599 --> 00:49:02,239
been some said on that. But if you read the

863
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,679
mainstream media on Donald Trump, he's a madman, like no

864
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,360
one understands him. Is acting like he has dreams and

865
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,159
he wakes up and then just like doesn't know anything

866
00:49:11,199 --> 00:49:14,360
about South Africa, the man knows everything about it. But

867
00:49:14,519 --> 00:49:17,960
every country in the world has got the last interious apparatus.

868
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,280
There is one issue though, which which I hope to

869
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,719
bring up with you, in that I think focusing on

870
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:34,440
the murder, brutal murder and deaths of white Afrikaans farmers

871
00:49:35,039 --> 00:49:39,039
is a mistake. Not because of that happening. It is happening,

872
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:46,559
but I think other people who are also subjected two

873
00:49:46,599 --> 00:49:53,639
horrific deprivations under this government are now forced by this

874
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,039
binary choice by Trump to only focus on africaners. I

875
00:49:57,079 --> 00:50:00,480
think if you focused on the fact that So Africa

876
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:05,920
hasn't grown as a country economically, culturally, socially, black people

877
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,840
are there's more Black people unemployed today than at any

878
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,159
time in the history of our country. If we just

879
00:50:11,159 --> 00:50:14,280
focused on the real deprivations of real people, I think

880
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,960
he will get a lot more support from average South

881
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,360
Africans by focusing only on Africanas, even though it exists

882
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:24,039
and it is true and it's a major problem. I

883
00:50:24,079 --> 00:50:26,159
think he's alienating a lot of people he would support

884
00:50:26,199 --> 00:50:31,039
him otherwise. Of Black South African support Donald Trump based

885
00:50:31,039 --> 00:50:35,480
on a survey published last year. So that's one tactical

886
00:50:35,519 --> 00:50:39,320
mistake that I think needs to be rectified. But overall,

887
00:50:39,679 --> 00:50:42,840
I think people actually do like Trump. The average citizen

888
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,440
and they want nothing more than to have a Trump

889
00:50:46,639 --> 00:50:49,480
like figure here not we the same policies but with

890
00:50:49,559 --> 00:50:55,159
the same energy, but the same map of progress, because yeah,

891
00:50:55,159 --> 00:50:58,119
we just have managers, right. The managers don't make anything,

892
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,920
They just coordinate reals or steal it in our case.

893
00:51:03,159 --> 00:51:06,360
So those are the most thoughts genuity on the questions

894
00:51:06,519 --> 00:51:08,559
I've answered been Yeah.

895
00:51:08,519 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 4: Two things there. One I think that there and this

896
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,800
is exploded as the kind of American New Right has

897
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:23,000
become more relevant. Is that, as with anything that becomes popular,

898
00:51:23,639 --> 00:51:26,920
it becomes a way to make money. And there are

899
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,960
very few things that go as viral as they're sort

900
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,960
of doom and gloom. Right, the idea, and you saw

901
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,400
this from you Southern and a few others that there's

902
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,679
a you know, a white genocide going on in South Africa.

903
00:51:39,039 --> 00:51:42,239
And again I've talked about the farm murders. You know,

904
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:46,480
I my South African friends are by and large Africaners,

905
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,320
and so this should not be taken as dismissing that

906
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:54,320
at all, but by over sensationalizing it, it sort of

907
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,719
robbed it of its true impact, and it became one

908
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,119
of many ways to generate outrage and generate clicks because

909
00:52:02,159 --> 00:52:09,760
it is outrageous, it is horrific, but it became because

910
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,559
of that, it became part of a certain narrative, and

911
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,199
it becomes tainted by many of the people pushing it

912
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,159
as awful as it is to say, and so it

913
00:52:20,199 --> 00:52:25,639
becomes politicized. It becomes part of the sort of daily Grist,

914
00:52:25,679 --> 00:52:29,880
the Daily Grist grind of kind of politics. And it's

915
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,480
upsetting because it shouldn't be right. This should be something

916
00:52:32,519 --> 00:52:34,639
that everyone looks at and says, all right, stop that

917
00:52:34,639 --> 00:52:38,599
that's horrible, but it sort of entered into a political realm.

918
00:52:39,079 --> 00:52:41,840
And on that as well. To your point about your

919
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,199
life in South Africa being quite positive, I think that's

920
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,079
something Americans need to realize. Like you look at Brazil,

921
00:52:48,119 --> 00:52:52,719
look at South Africa again. If you care, if you

922
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:57,239
have the resources, you can live a very good life. Now, look,

923
00:52:57,639 --> 00:53:00,320
it would be better to live in a society where

924
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,840
you didn't have to make those sort of tough choices,

925
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,559
where you didn't have to, you know, anxiously watch your

926
00:53:05,559 --> 00:53:07,400
wife every time she goes to get her hair done.

927
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,119
But let's say that isn't a choice. Like it's happening

928
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,519
as it seems to be in America. That does not

929
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,440
mean it is all over. It just means that you

930
00:53:17,559 --> 00:53:21,599
have to go about your life differently. You have to

931
00:53:22,039 --> 00:53:25,320
bring more things into your control that were previously kind

932
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:29,440
of socialized or externalized. And in the grand scheme of

933
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,760
things like that's not the worst. That's how your ancestors lived,

934
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:38,599
maybe for different reasons, but it's doable, it's survivable. And

935
00:53:38,639 --> 00:53:41,440
I wanted to append that because you know, I think

936
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:46,280
that the doomerism surrounding your country is ultimately understandable. You

937
00:53:46,559 --> 00:53:48,920
see a country that's dysfunctional, it seems like we're headed

938
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,559
that direction, and so you know, oppose that we want

939
00:53:52,599 --> 00:53:55,480
to have a functional system. But assuming we don't have

940
00:53:55,519 --> 00:53:59,360
the choice, assuming it is an inevitable reality, which doesn't

941
00:53:59,519 --> 00:54:02,639
have to be, it doesn't mean it's all over. I

942
00:54:02,679 --> 00:54:06,360
mean you've you know, I talked to you know, Conscious

943
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,559
caricle or and spend Zeel, you know a couple of

944
00:54:08,559 --> 00:54:12,280
times a year, and you know he's done great work organizing,

945
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,360
and it's always something that he talks about is that

946
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,199
you know, there are ways around these problems. There are

947
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:22,360
the cultures that were capable of building societies, know how

948
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,119
to do these sort of things. So it's not the

949
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:28,280
end per se as I think you often hear it

950
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:30,559
kind of referred to. Am I accurate there?

951
00:54:30,639 --> 00:54:35,320
Speaker 2: Roman absolutely absolutely it might be so when you say

952
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,679
what we said, right that that's the farm maurders are

953
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:42,000
being politicized and and grifted upon, I am not talking

954
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,239
about South Africans, and I don't think one hundred percent.

955
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:46,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, and.

956
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 4: Canadian woman right, yeah.

957
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 2: Right, So Conscious character you on your show is a

958
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:55,559
good friend of mine. We agree on minds nine percent

959
00:54:55,639 --> 00:54:57,840
of the things. For the most part, that the work they

960
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:02,880
do on farm murders is is deepest scientific, deeply rigorous,

961
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:03,960
and very important.

962
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,039
Speaker 3: And there is a.

963
00:55:07,599 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 2: Straw man being built in my country that people like

964
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,800
Conscious Caricle go to America tell Donald Trump directly there's

965
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,519
a white genocide and he must act with haste. And

966
00:55:18,559 --> 00:55:22,199
then somehow Donald Trump listened to him only not anyone else,

967
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:26,320
and like files off tweets about white genocide in South Africa,

968
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,480
that is not the case at all. I've seen what

969
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:33,039
is being presented in Washington by delegations from my country,

970
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:38,679
not government delegations, proud delegations from Africana institutions. And it's

971
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:42,199
rigorous work, very good work, and I'm not talking about

972
00:55:42,199 --> 00:55:45,119
them when I said this drifting about far murders. Drifting

973
00:55:45,199 --> 00:55:47,800
is done, if I may say, on your side of

974
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,199
the Atlantic rather than on my side.

975
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 4: But well, a lot of it comes from the other

976
00:55:54,519 --> 00:55:58,559
side of the Indian Ocean as well. There's a lot

977
00:55:58,599 --> 00:56:00,840
of it coming from the self Carton and from a

978
00:56:02,199 --> 00:56:04,840
certain infamous Malaysian. But I'm sorry, I'll throw it back

979
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:04,960
to you.

980
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:07,519
Speaker 3: Well, yes I can't. I'm not.

981
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 2: You know, I actually interviewed him ten years ago, and

982
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:12,760
I'll put I'm the lu Kid's guy who I get

983
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:16,519
to interview this guy?

984
00:56:17,119 --> 00:56:20,639
Speaker 4: I was yet bad form to be uh to be

985
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:22,880
caddy on the internet, but I couldn't resist.

986
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:25,519
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, and I'm gonna tell you it does the

987
00:56:25,519 --> 00:56:29,519
most boring interview of my life. So anyway us for

988
00:56:29,599 --> 00:56:32,119
all to leave that in the boss. What was your

989
00:56:32,159 --> 00:56:35,559
actual substantive questions? Sorry I have forgone centers.

990
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 4: Oh, I don't even know if it was a question.

991
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,199
I think it was more of an observation talking about,

992
00:56:40,519 --> 00:56:42,880
you know, how that has become. Oh no, we were

993
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,519
talking about, you know the fact that being forced to

994
00:56:46,559 --> 00:56:50,599
build your own institutions, your own kind of you know, projects,

995
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:53,000
is not the worst thing in the world. Right, it's

996
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:57,119
how cultures became great. You're you sort of have that memory.

997
00:56:57,639 --> 00:56:58,199
Speaker 3: It's I mean, so.

998
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:02,079
Speaker 2: I'm in is not the most exciting thing in the

999
00:57:02,079 --> 00:57:06,360
world to do, right, It's an adventure. I mean, I

1000
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,800
know so many people who have left my country together

1001
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:11,719
to Europe, or to go to Australia, or to go

1002
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:13,360
to wherever.

1003
00:57:13,519 --> 00:57:15,119
Speaker 3: Some of the shiftall areas.

1004
00:57:15,639 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 2: And they are bored are their minds. They don't have

1005
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,320
to think about anything. Maybe they think about what to

1006
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:27,119
order Starbucks? What a dosimal life, What a terrible life?

1007
00:57:27,519 --> 00:57:30,880
Everything is ten times cheap and ten times worse. They

1008
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,360
don't interact with the Australian population, or the English population

1009
00:57:34,599 --> 00:57:38,679
or whatever wherever they are. Why don't you stay here

1010
00:57:38,719 --> 00:57:41,159
and big a trench? As conscious Cariacle to use one

1011
00:57:41,159 --> 00:57:44,199
of his court, it's just a bigger trench for goodness sake.

1012
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,960
We did it before. Everyone of our ancestors dug a

1013
00:57:48,039 --> 00:57:53,320
trench somehow somewhere for a good reason. I want to

1014
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:55,360
stay in there and do it. The state can't stop us.

1015
00:57:55,559 --> 00:58:00,000
They tacompetent. The rest of the population are doing in trench.

1016
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,880
Who is in their own various ways like you should

1017
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,239
really look at the rise of nationalism of the Zulu people.

1018
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:09,719
For example, They've got a monarch in the southern part

1019
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,039
of my country, and I think they're going to be

1020
00:58:12,039 --> 00:58:13,480
a force to be written with in time to come.

1021
00:58:13,519 --> 00:58:16,000
They might even wish to succeed from the Republic, from

1022
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:20,079
the Unitary State, which is broadly fake because it was

1023
00:58:20,119 --> 00:58:24,519
created by the British in nineteen ten. So there could

1024
00:58:24,519 --> 00:58:27,280
be secession in time. It could be such session of

1025
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:31,599
the Western Cape to become a liberal democracy and become

1026
00:58:31,679 --> 00:58:35,599
an offshoot of the American Empire. There's also a possibility

1027
00:58:35,599 --> 00:58:39,840
within my lifetime, there's seventy possibilities about what might happen

1028
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,159
in South Africa. Why wouldn't you want to be here?

1029
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 3: It is the most exciting time to be alive as

1030
00:58:46,079 --> 00:58:51,880
a as a South African. So that's sort of an interesting.

1031
00:58:52,519 --> 00:58:54,639
Speaker 4: It's sort of an interesting thing because you heard a

1032
00:58:54,679 --> 00:58:59,039
lot ten years ago, fifteen years ago, this kind of

1033
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,159
well meaning but kind of hand ringing about the crisis

1034
00:59:02,159 --> 00:59:05,719
of meaning. And I think about this a lot that

1035
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:11,320
you know, there's no one living in a cave who

1036
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,400
worries about, you know, existential questions, right, It's it's real

1037
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,679
it's immediate. No one's asking, you know, who am I

1038
00:59:16,719 --> 00:59:19,559
as they're being attacked by a saber tooth tiger. And

1039
00:59:19,639 --> 00:59:22,000
you know, many of these these people, these academics, were

1040
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:25,480
talking about the fact that, you know, life is pointless.

1041
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:28,719
You know that it feels as if there's no struggle anymore,

1042
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,119
and that's coming back. It may have been sort of

1043
00:59:33,159 --> 00:59:37,280
the you know, the monkey's paw like irony, but you know,

1044
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,559
the idea of you know, you get your wish, but

1045
00:59:39,599 --> 00:59:42,719
there's a you know, there's sort of a a hook

1046
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,480
associated with it, and I think that that is something

1047
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:47,920
right we were headed for, you know, and it may

1048
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,719
take longer here than there, a time where material considerations,

1049
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:55,239
where safety is no longer assumed, you know it is

1050
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:57,760
it is something that you have to you know, strive for,

1051
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,880
and that look, that's a certain type of meaning. There's

1052
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,280
a certain type of adventure there. And I think particularly

1053
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,840
for young men who have been you know, in America

1054
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,800
in particularly, very much sidelined, very much kind of made redundant, well,

1055
01:00:11,039 --> 01:00:14,199
you know, you're getting an adventure whether you want.

1056
01:00:14,039 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 3: It or not.

1057
01:00:15,039 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 4: And it's sort of a I don't know, it's sort

1058
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:18,280
of a silver lining to that cloud.

1059
01:00:19,559 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 2: And I mean as a young man in America, if

1060
01:00:22,079 --> 01:00:24,360
you or someone like you're not you specifically, but people watching.

1061
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:27,400
I mean, if you want an adventure, come studying nature

1062
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,800
conservation in South Africa. You get to shoot poaches to

1063
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:38,639
save rhyme as and elephants and no one be's an island. Fantastic. Yeah, well,

1064
01:00:38,639 --> 01:00:42,840
I mean private security. There's so many adventures to get.

1065
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:44,719
And you know, Knaan repos are very good friend of

1066
01:00:44,719 --> 01:00:46,719
mine as well. I mean that man just lives on

1067
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:50,639
adrenaline every day he is. It's like being in a

1068
01:00:50,679 --> 01:00:53,079
Felujah in two eleven four, Like I said, drug ding

1069
01:00:53,199 --> 01:00:56,760
here and kidnapping green here, and a cash in transit

1070
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,119
highs there, and he's on the sea and who knows

1071
01:00:59,159 --> 01:01:03,599
what he's doing all things good? And I mean you,

1072
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:08,079
that's sort of life cannot be lived in eighty percent

1073
01:01:08,079 --> 01:01:12,199
of the world. It just cannot. I'm not saying it's

1074
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,280
terrifically healthy to live on a drenaline all the time

1075
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,639
all that. It's it's the most relaxing way to live,

1076
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,800
not in the slightest. But I don't have a practice

1077
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,239
of meaning whatsoever. I know exactly what I means to

1078
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:26,719
do I know exactly where my projects are, I know

1079
01:01:26,719 --> 01:01:30,480
exactly what next gun to buy or whatever the case

1080
01:01:30,559 --> 01:01:32,599
might be. And not because I want to shoot someone

1081
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,079
who's going to break into my house, but because I'll

1082
01:01:35,119 --> 01:01:38,280
just join shooting club and get together with other men

1083
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:42,039
who or women who share the same passions as I do,

1084
01:01:42,119 --> 01:01:44,320
and who all you know, can tell you how to

1085
01:01:44,599 --> 01:01:47,760
get off loopholes when required because the police don't know

1086
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:51,559
what's going on. Five year is really great and it's

1087
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,800
ail down to mindset. And I know quite a few

1088
01:01:54,800 --> 01:02:01,039
people who lived from England or Australia and they're trying

1089
01:02:01,039 --> 01:02:03,800
to be sort of Instagram influences that they've got to

1090
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:05,840
kept down mostly which is one of the most beautiful

1091
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:10,039
cities in the world. But I'm too real Africa. I'm

1092
01:02:10,039 --> 01:02:14,159
to Johannesburger Conterboratoria. I come to the northern paws of

1093
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:19,480
South Africa. There's many adventures to be had and while

1094
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,280
worth your time, as long as you don't think I

1095
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:26,880
want a limb right. If you believe in quality of ideology,

1096
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:30,239
you're gonna have a terrible time here. If you truly

1097
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,800
believe in real diversity of people, you can.

1098
01:02:32,639 --> 01:02:33,599
Speaker 3: Have a one for one.

1099
01:02:35,639 --> 01:02:39,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's an interesting point what you said about in

1100
01:02:39,639 --> 01:02:43,039
a wildlife conservation. I have a great interview it's been

1101
01:02:43,079 --> 01:02:45,880
a year and a half now with with Rory Duncan

1102
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:52,119
talking about exactly that, and man, it's crazy for those

1103
01:02:52,159 --> 01:02:56,039
who haven't heard it. Similar to Cane and Reaper, the

1104
01:02:56,079 --> 01:03:00,079
incidental events to the story would be the highlight of

1105
01:03:00,119 --> 01:03:02,320
someone else's story. I will not torture you with my

1106
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:06,320
horrible impersonation of his accent, but he'll he'll talk about

1107
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,079
something and it'll be you know, him traping through the

1108
01:03:09,119 --> 01:03:12,559
jungle with you know, a couple of local guides and

1109
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,719
they'll they'll be involved in the ambush. He'll shoot someone,

1110
01:03:17,519 --> 01:03:19,320
and then the rest of the story is and then

1111
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:20,960
we chase this guy. I'm like, wait a minute, can

1112
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:23,199
we go back to the beginning, the inciting incident? You

1113
01:03:23,239 --> 01:03:27,440
know that? That sounds interesting enough? But Roman, we're fast

1114
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:29,679
coming up on time. Man, this is a great conversation.

1115
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,440
I'll have to have you on again soon. But man,

1116
01:03:32,599 --> 01:03:34,480
where can people find you? Where can they find your work?

1117
01:03:36,199 --> 01:03:38,159
Speaker 2: So, I mean they can find you on x at

1118
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:42,320
Roman Kevinank which is my full name, and on YouTube

1119
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:44,840
it's Undercurrents. I'm not too sure what I'm doing with

1120
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:46,840
the channel, but I used to do sort of short

1121
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:50,679
form documentaries based on South Africa and your politics around

1122
01:03:50,719 --> 01:03:55,119
South Africa. I think I'll bring it back during the

1123
01:03:55,159 --> 01:03:57,679
course of this year. I'll just have a few projects

1124
01:03:57,719 --> 01:04:01,119
to get done first, trying to focus on that's if

1125
01:04:01,119 --> 01:04:03,639
you wanted to know me x and on YouTube and

1126
01:04:03,679 --> 01:04:07,039
the currency to other businesses bust all well.

1127
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 4: Sure thing. Make sure to check those out. They will

1128
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:11,079
be linked in the description. As far as my stuff,

1129
01:04:11,159 --> 01:04:14,440
Jay Burton Show, Apple, Spotify YouTube, this is what I do.

1130
01:04:14,679 --> 01:04:16,679
Can't do it without your support. If you want to

1131
01:04:16,719 --> 01:04:18,800
send me a few bucks a month, it's not a lot,

1132
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:22,559
It's like five bucks for whatever twenty some episodes. You

1133
01:04:22,559 --> 01:04:24,440
get them early in ad free. I know the ads

1134
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,039
are irritating, but it pays my mortgage. Or you can

1135
01:04:27,119 --> 01:04:30,800
check out our sponsor Axios Remote Fitness Coaching. JD is

1136
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:34,719
an absolute physical specimen and he is very tolerant of me,

1137
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:37,679
but he does make fun of me on the internet

1138
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,000
for being gay and for not lifting as much weights

1139
01:04:40,039 --> 01:04:42,480
as he does. If that sounds interesting to you, you

1140
01:04:42,519 --> 01:04:44,079
don't even have to use the workouts, You just get

1141
01:04:44,119 --> 01:04:45,800
into the group chat and you can call me whatever

1142
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:48,639
name you want. So check out Axious remote fitness coaching

1143
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:50,800
Roman Who's a ton of fun. Man, I appreciate it.

1144
01:04:52,119 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 3: What a bitter thank you for having me on, looking

1145
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:54,840
forward to the next one.

1146
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 4: To everyone at home, keep your head up. I can't

1147
01:04:57,480 --> 01:04:58,000
last forever.

1148
01:04:58,119 --> 01:05:13,199
Speaker 5: Good night, But but what's

1149
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:21,159
Speaker 3: Gary